#these posts are made by ZUKO’S STANS

[emrys-merlin]

Aang being called racist because he doesn't like sea prunes and dead animals skins is the funniest thing I've ever read here like i'm dying

[sapphic-agent]

(Sorry for the small text at the bottom)

[el-hijo-de-hernandez-27]

I just saw a Zukka post that made realize one thing.

The Zukka stans actually understand what shipping is supposed to be!

Zuko and Sokka had 2 episodes for themselves in the whole show! They barely interacted in a positive way for the other 59 episodes and yet they took the scraps and are actually having fun with it!

Shipping is supposed to be taking two of our dolls and having them kiss and smooche and do other stuff, never mind canon.

[missaccuracy]

Why do you think so many people are uncomfortable with having to admit that Ursa wasn't perfect?

For a number of reasons:

1. Ursa was a victim af abuse and according to the fandom, a true victim of abuse must be perfect and can do no wrong. Many people think that if a victim isn't perfect, than she's not a victim anymore(just like how they think about Azula).

2. They don't want to aknowledge Azula's trauma. Azula says she feels like Ursa liked Zuko more than her? It is Azula who is lying or is getting it wrong somehow, or it's her fault and so on... Or even, in some posts I've seen, they prefer to just conveniently overlook it and not mention this Azula's line at all.

3. I see a pattern that this claims usually come from Zuko stans, and I think that's because they just have a hard time seeing flaws in a character that was kind to Zuko.

4. They're musinterpreting the mirror scene. I already made a few posts about this. To put it briefly, many people didn't get that the hallucination is an unreliable narrator and take the line " I love you, Azula, I do" too literally, coming to the conclusion that this is what Azula knows about, when it doesn't necessarily have to be true.

5. And perhaps the last reason, but surely not the least: black-and-white thinking and difficulty with grasping a nuance in the story.

Zuko's abuse was depicted a lot more straightforwardly. Not to say that there wasn't any nuance in a way Ozai treated Zuko, but still, Zuko's abuse was made very clear because it wasn't only emotional, but also physical. It's much easier to overlook a purely emotional abuse.

And clearly Ursa, while wasn't perfect, wasn't a completely horrible parent either, like Ozai. And if Ursa isn't an evil monster, than it means she must be a saint, there's no other explanation.

Every member of the fire nation royal family is interesting in their own right and reducing Ursa to just a saintly mother, when it was implied in the show that she also had a hand in how Azula turned out, is a disservice to a show as complex as ATLA.

[prying-pandora666]

I can see why you voice Azula. Your manipulative and a liar just like her.

You say you have nothing against Zutara but you defend Aang anytime we have valid criticisms of his sexism and racism.

You are highly critical of Maiko and yet you claim to love both Zuko and Mai. If you loved them so much you’d want them to be happy together.

You reblog any Zuko ship that isn’t Maiko. Casually scrolling your blog I have seen you support Zukka, Jinko, Toko, and Zutara but that last one is obviously fake because you also criticize the pirate scene.

Meanwhile you hypocritically support Azula ships like Sokkla, TyZula, and Mailee. You don’t call out Zucest either just like your TERF icon Grey.

Your obvi a Kataang shipper in disguise. Zutarians have been fighting this battle since the beginning. We won’t fall for your Trojan horse.

Azula always lies.

I can see your entire post history behind your eyes. You were born with nothing. And you’ve had to troll, and plagiarize, and drama-post your way to the top.

But true power? The divine right to multi-ship? Is something you’re born with.

Your followers (if indeed you have any) may not know how this is going to turn out.

But I know.

And you know.

Those allegations against Grey Delisle were false. Katy Perry stans made them up because Grey called Katy out on voting for anti-gay politicians.

Whoops. Guess you’re not as informed as you thought.

Don’t flatter yourself.

You were never even a shitposter.

[the-badger-mole]

Azula stans really need to stop projecting the tough childhoods they had unto her. She is not some helpless little girl who never did anything bad on her own accord. Her fangirls are nothing but toxic terfs who think any criticism for them are sins from the patriarchy, please.

Idk enough Azula apologists to say they are all terfs or not, but I think the larger issue is people aren't comfortable rooting for the bad guy anymore. I, personally blame Wicked. I love the show, and I really liked the book, but it kickstarted this trend of What If stories that make villains more sympathetic. In a lot of cases, they just outright flip who was the villain and who was the hero, which is the least interesting thing you could do in terms of exploring a villain character's motives (glaring daggers at you, Maleficent).

No one is all black or all white. Everyone exists in shades of grey, and that includes villains. There's nothing wrong with exploring the grey areas of villains. Some of the best villains in literature are multi-dimensional. Some of them are even sympathetic, but at the end of the day, they are villains and nothing justifies their destruction. The best recent example I can think of is Killmonger from the Black Panther movie. He wasn't wrong to criticize the exploitation of Africa and the Black Diaspora by the West. He wasn't wrong for thinking that Wakanda should've stepped up and intervened. His anger was absolutely justified, but his methods absolutely were not. As an audience we can both love and empathize with Killmonger but also admit he was the villain.

That is, unfortunately, not how a lot of Azula's staunchest defenders approach her. Instead of allowing themselves to feel empathy for her, even though she is definitely in the wrong and has definitely made decisions on her own accord that show her own moral compass is broken, they have to turn her into a victim of circumstance. I think that is actually a very sexist way to look at Azula, though I don't really think for the most part her defenders are trying to be. Azula made choices she didn't have to. She was a child who was likely abused (albeit in a different way from Zuko). She was also an abuser herself, and very ruthless and cunning in her own right. All those things can be true at the same time, but Azula defenders can't seem to accept that.

Now I could speculate on why this is, and personally, I think it's because of this really annoying trend of needing your fandom opinions to align with your morals. I don't have much to base that on, though. I don't spend a ton of time engaging with a lot of people on the opposite end of the fandom from me, so I haven't heard directly from the more rational Azula defenders on why they think the way they do (the ones I've interacted with have been just...the worst and I didn't care to engage with them for long). Even if I did, who is self aware enough to say "my need to defend this villain is because I don't feel comfortable liking them if they are truly bad"? My opinion is based entirely on the posts that I see on my feed sometimes of mutuals getting asks that accuse them of terrible things because of the characters and tropes they like. Also, on the metas I sometimes see explaining how rather than being the villain, Azula was a broken little thing who had been failed by everyone around her, including her brother- who was a child himself, and her uncle- who couldn't have intervened even if he wanted because Azula wouldn't have ever accepted his help.

I could be right, or I could be way off base, but I think if we're ever going to see a decline in the rabid defenders of characters like Azula, we have to get to a point where we can admit we like bad guys without trying to make them heroes. It's okay to like a character and still want to see them defeated in the end. Or to want to see them win, even if it means that evil has triumphed. It doesn't mean anything about you as a person. It just means that you like a good story.

[atla-confessions]

On the victim blaming of Ursa debate.

If a woman is forced to have children and then raise those children she is a victim in that situation. She is a victim in the fact there is no proof she wanted to have Ozai's children.

No offense but Azula's stans consistently labeling criticism of Azula as misogynistic while having no empathy for difficulty and trauma Ursa was experiencing as a abused woman stolen from her family is frankly ridiculous. It is victim blaming when you hold a abuse victim to such a high standard of behavior. Most (if not all) of the things she did wrong would not have occurred without Ozai's abuse.

We see what kinda of parent she is without an abuser (and support instead) with Kiyi. And yes, she is (unsurprisingly) far better without Ozai.

Another issue is that a lot of her sins are extrapolations. For example, she 'viewed Azula as a monster' is not something she ever claims on screen. Azula says it. We don't see how she came to this conclusion. We only see Ursa discipline actual bad behavior. The one time we get to see where Azula is when Zuko is hanging out with Ursa is when we see her playing with Mai and Ty Lee. So bad faith: Ursa constantly favored Zuko and actively did things that made Azula think she saw her as a monster and actually did believe Azula was born a monster. Good faith: Ursa spent more time with Zuko because he didn't have friends, Ursa didn't like the same behavior Ozai cultivated and Ozai manipulated a wedge into their relationship when she responded negatively to these behaviors.

You see how the Ursa victim blaming occurs. They (anti Ursas (usually just Azula stans)) treat Azula's feeling of being unloved as only possibly the result of mistreatment from Ursa as opposed to giving any weight to the manipulative abuser. They look at the scene of Ozai saying he will abuse Zuko and it's her fault and think 'yeah, it is,' because she did something antagonistic to her abuser and he punished the child for it. This is arguably victim blaming.

This directs blame away from Ozai towards Ursa. VICTIM BLAMING! If Ozai hurts Zuko to punish Ursa. That is on Ozai. NOT URSA! Even if she did mess up. This is early on, how is she to know how bad Ozai will get?

And, criticism of Ursa isn't inherently victim blaming. She did make mistakes but so many 'ursa critical' or 'anti ursa' posts just end up victim blaming. From attacking her for things that we never have it confirmed she did to blaming her for things Ozai did. For 'failing' to protect them (like she had any power). Overall, yes. Ursa is heavily victim blamed by fandom.

(Also, I do not judge her for choosing to forget, she could not fight the fire nation, she would only suffer. It might not be the most noble decision but one selfish act (after years of trauma) doesn't make a woman worthy of so much derision.)

X

[blackbullet99]

Zutara-stans like these need to stop talking about issues they don’t care about.

I’m not gonna invalidate some of the legitimate issues with Bryke’s work, but this is ridiculously hypocritical coming for a scumbag like longing-for-rain.

Call this racist all you want, I ain’t gonna touch this because I’m not Indian. But like the points made about The Fire Nation being colonizers is still a legit point, and this played-for-laughs hallucination has nothing to do with that.

Also, unsurprisingly this person is huge Zuko d!ck-rider. Who says weird stuff like this.

And weirder stuff like this.

Y’all act like Bryke are Hitler, but y’all praise Zuko (someone they wrote no less) and act like he was always a perfect Gary-Stu who could do no wrong to the point where you can’t even take any criticism towards the nation he’s from despite Zuko himself calling his nations colonization of other tribes. And y’all villainize Aang to no end, with objectively wrong statements that make no sense. Let’s be real, the only reason you’re upset that Aang isn’t celibate is because he gets in the way of your precious fan-pairing, although really he doesn’t even get in the way of anything, seeing as it a FAN-pairing your pissy about.

Also this scumbag has no right to whine about issues like racism in this show, seeing that they think writing r@pe-fics about their favorite characters is revolutionary high art.

Not to mention arguing with and invalidating an ACTUAL indigenous person for calling out a post about “Zutara giving Zuko better in-laws, because it completely glosses over the fact that Katara would also have people like Ozai as an in-law and multiple other in-laws who colonized her tribe and ordered the death of her mom.

F*ck you longing-for-rain. You don’t care about racism, you don’t care about colonization, you don’t care about Katara, you don’t care about actual indigenous people or their feelings, you don’t even care about the show you claim to love. You only care about projecting yourself onto Katara so you can f*ck Zuko and then hurls childish insults anyone who so much as criticizes you for your weird-@$$ takes. You’re a loser and you need to seriously go outside a rethink your life, girl.

[kataraslove]

I just stumbled across your acc and I gotta say, I agree with alotta ur takes

Ur sooo well spoken and I really enjoy reading your thoughts and opinions

Katara is one of my favorite characters and it makes me really happy to see someone appreciate her and her writing

Ngl a lot of atla fans r lowkey braindead so ur acc is pretty refreshing

Thanks for posting!! 🩷

thank you! 🩷 your words are too kind. i appreciate it.

i did mention this before, but this blog stemmed kind of entirely out of spite. i was sick and tired of fandom on here telling me that there was only one way to interpret and enjoy my favourite character, dictating who i could or could not ship her with and how much of a stan that made me. it’s not an experience just unique to the atla fandom, of course. it’s becoming something more apparent nowadays especially, the ways in which multiple readings and interpretations of a character is heavily discouraged by fandom in favour of just one.

it’s baffling how, for so many years, there was a strict binaric interpretation of katara’s character, with 0 being non-canon and 1 being completely in favour of all things canon. either you had to vehemently agree with everything that bryke wrote for katara’s within atla and post-canon, to the point where i have seen people defend the lack of statues of her as “oh, she probably didn’t want one anyway,” (NO!!) or you had to have deep-rooted anger and rejection for all things that were done to her story, in the guise of katara deserving better.

katara does deserve better narratively, but NOT in the ways that the tumblr fandom thinks she should have. not in the ways that she should be ambassador to the fire nation, or become firelady (a racist depiction in fanon and nothing but a decorative title in canon) and live out the rest of her life by zuko’s side, serving and prioritizing zuko’s nation.

“but wouldn’t it be empowering if katara sat on the throne of her oppressors and got to dictate - “ no. it’s not. stop advocating for that type of ending for women from oppressed and marganized groups. stop acting like that is the ideal future that katara wanted this whole time, that ruling as part of a foreign monarchy that decimated your people and your culture is the ultimate threshold for liberation.

i’ve seen people who claim to take a doylist perspective for critique of atla (read: kataang)’s writing completely lose all comprehension when it comes to critically assessing post-canon zutara. by that i mean, if we continue with the writing direction that we saw for all of the female atla characters in the sequel series, a zutara endgame would position katara in a worse outcome than she got narratively. but you tell anyone that and it’s an instant “zuko would have given her 10 statues!!”

but most importantly, nothing has radicalized me more over this year than seeing the “katara deserves better (in the form of zuko)” crowd, the same crowd who is currently dreading any form of fixing or retcons from avatar studios in upcoming content, defend the hell out of natla katara’s writing. the very same people who were praising katara’s arc to the stars, stating that it was nearly complete until the two grown men decided to pair her up with aang and ruined all at the end.

well, what about the group of zutara shippers in the natla writer’s room who handed her everything in the narrative, who removed her flaws, her anger, her compassion, who stripped her down to everything except hope, all in the name so that she wouldn’t appear unlikable to audiences. i mean, that tremendously backfired for them, because now the young actress who plays katara is getting hate spewed at her for failing to portray katara interestingly, when the problem has always been the shit writing.

anyway, i appreciate this message! glad i could be of service and it’s nice that you’re a zuko fan who ships kataang! lots of people who love zuko do.

“a lot of atla fans are braindead” LMAO you can say that again!!!

[linkspooky]

Hey. Long time follower here. Your metas, your discussions of "bad victims", your nuanced view of heroes and victims, your favoritism towards "losers"...not only did you heavily influence my own writing and my own favorites in different medias (I'm entirely blaming you for me being a Makima stan) but you helped through an extremely dark time in my life. I don't think that you just made me a better writer, you also sort of saved my life. I'll always be grateful for that.

There's something I want to ask. You answered to another ask that you don't regret reading MHA because focusing on what doesn't work about it made your writing stronger. Do you feel the same about Homestuck? Or about the more disappointing parts of Tokyo Ghoul (and, while we're being candid here, Avatar?).

Thank you for your compliments they're very encouraging to read.

At this point this blog is becoming the bad victim lovers support group where we all hug each other and cry over how MHA is treating all of its bad victims.

HOMESTUCK: Honestly, my main problem with Homestuck is that ACT 6 was so long and uneventful full of characters not doing anything that by the end of it the only character I was invested in was Vriska. ACT 6 also did go out of it's way to kill my enthusiasm for everything I liked in ACT 5, especially John Vriska. I've never seen a comic throw out all of its previous development that the audience was invested in and like everything that was foreshadowed - oh wait My Hero Academia. Unfortunately Vriska is an all-time-fave so I still write Homestuck Fanfic about her to this day. I used to like think the finale of Homestuck was one big "meh" but after years to reflect upon it, I do like Vriska's arc ending on a final note of Terezi searching for her in the void, possibly forever, and the ambiguity of whether they'll reunite.

TOKYO GHOUL: I remember being mad about Kaneki getting a happy ending that he didn't earn. Kaneki was a character that really frustrated me for a long time, but I came to realize that if you like remove Kaneki from his group of codependent enablers he's actually a really interesting character when he's alone. So he's a character I love to explore in fic, even if I disliked what they did with him in canon. Also, Tokyo Ghoul killed off its biggest victims Furuta and Rize in a really cruel way, but it didn't kill off every single victim so it just disappoints me instead of making me sick to my stomach like MHA does.

ATLA: I actually think the Avatar the Last Airbender ending is fine. Which like, isn't saying much because I think the Season 1 finale and Season 2 finales are some of the best things ever put to television. The worst sin that the ending does is number one lack of foreshadowing in earlier in the season and number two rushed plot points. Aang not wanting to kill the Fire Lord makes sense. I think the reason a lot of people criticize this and call it an ass pull is that it's not even BROUGHT UP until the finale. Vash the Stampede is pacifist and one of my favorite characters, but it's established from episode 1 that Vash is constantly up against people who want to kill him and he either has to run away or find a way to fight back nonlethally. Azula's insanity and mental instability could have been a thing, but it's not foreshadowed at all so all it ends up doing is conveniently nerf Azula for Zuko, and also being ableist. The worst problem is while there are epic fights it doesn't feel like an ending, because everyone's character arcs are 3/4ths of the way through. ESPECIALLY ZUKO's. Like people say Zuko is acting out of character in the comics, but I think Zuko is the only person in character in the comics because that's how Zuko without a proper end to his character arc would act. It really feels like they had plans for a fourth season that they didn't get, and their solution was to cram an entire season worth of development in everything post the eclipse on season 3. The fact that Azula is left as such a hanging thread is like proof of that, and the fact that Azula's last shot in the series is just her crying and screaming with like no follow up afterwards is something I've been bitter about for fourteen years.

I could write an entire post about how Zuko's redemption arc is unfinished though. It's like the same problem as Catra. I like both characters and I'm glad they got redeemed but they crammed in the entire redemption arc into 1/2 of the last season and that simply wasn't enough time.

[ceruleanwhore]

Aang As a Father, in Response to LoK

⚠️CAUTION⚠️

This post is full of Aang and kataang hate. If you like Aang and/or ship kataang in any capacity, scroll on for the sake of your mental and emotional wellbeing. Thank you!

When Avatar: Legend of Korra came out, I remember there being tons of discussion around how much Aang sucked as a father and how surprised everyone was, even some of us who never really liked him as a character. However, I’ve been thinking about it today, and the conclusion I’ve reached is that not only is it not surprising that Aang was not a very good parent, but it was inevitable. The one thing I disagree on that I’ll get to at some point in here is how he sucked at parenting in canon as opposed to how I think he was set up to fail at it given the direction he was headed with his canon characterization.

I’d like to start by getting into that characterization and discussing some of the elements of Aang’s canon personality that I think are relevant. In the series, yes, as we all know and as Aang stans love to point out ad nauseum, he’s just a mere bitty child, but we can also see some of his flaws that, even in his 12-year-old self, have some serious consequences at times. Canon Aang is a messy cocktail of toxic positivity, selfishness, avoidant tendencies, impulsivity, and a dangerous lack of emotional control. He does things like casually throw away the fate of the whole world over his god-given right to have a crush on a girl and then, in the next season, compare that same girl’s experience of losing her mother to his radically different experience of losing his pet for a couple weeks as he tells her to get over it. He also has a tendency to go into the freaking avatar state when he’s upset about something and cause serious damage to everything around him until Mommy calms him down. Even when he doesn’t go into the avatar state, he does things like verbally abuse his friends and abandon them in the desert when Appa goes missing.

All of this is completely relevant to who a hypothetical adult Aang would be and what he’d be like because, all throughout the series, there is never any accountability from Aang. He literally never takes responsibility for the things he does and makes amends or even just apologizes in a meaningful way because he never has to — the narrative makes sure of that. That’s the key part of Aang’s flaws, that Bryke genuinely thought they made a perfect good guy and had nary a crumb of self awareness that they accidentally made him a raging asshole who is constantly being rewarded for his shitty behavior. Even when he’s clearly in the wrong, like with the Bato situation in s1, they somehow turn it around so yeah, I guess he fesses up and apologizes but, at the end of the episode, Sokka and Katara are apologizing to him and there’s no lasting consequences for the shitty thing he did. Because of this crucial element of the story and Aang’s character, it is very likely that he’d go his whole life being a dickhead while continuing to never have consequences for that and somehow managing to maintain his friendships and relationship with Katara.

I want to kind of go through these one at a time, starting with the lack of accountability. Since Aang is the avatar, literally no one in the whole world of atla actually has authority over him, at least once he’s an adult. His peers are his equals but, even though Katara, Toph, and Zuko taught him his bending, they don’t really have any tangible authority over him as his teachers. Combine that with the fact that none of Aang’s friends really ever criticize him or hold him accountable for his actions and it becomes very clear that, as a father, he will never actually be held accountable for being a bad parent. What goes with this is that he also won’t be open to advice because he assumes he always knows best and the narrative also supports and rewards that. Between the two, he’s set up so that when he inevitably turns out to be a lousy father, there will be nothing anyone can say (assuming they would even say anything at all) to help him improve.

With this in mind, let’s start into the actual character flaws that, as concluded above, won’t be corrected at any point, starting with the toxic positivity. One of Aang’s most recognizable characteristics is his bright, cheery disposition which can be a good thing but also leads to him being very dismissive of anyone else’s problems or negative emotions. As a parent, he would never take his children’s problems seriously and would simply brush them off and tell his kids to practice detachment and just let go of whatever is bothering them, regardless of how serious the issue is or how much it matters to the kid. This will teach the kids both not to even try to bring their problems to at least one of their parents and also that any problem they have is actually inconsequential, so even when they do have really big, serious issues in life, they won’t be able to recognize it as such and get whatever help they might need. It also will convey to them that their own father just doesn’t really care about them, at least not enough to engage with them in any capacity about anything serious.

Next up is Aang’s selfishness. Throughout atla, we see time and time again that Aang struggles greatly with prioritizing literally anyone else over his own comfort and desires. He was more than willing to sacrifice the whole world for his ability to avoid having to engage in conflict and then, in season 2, he showed that he was 100% willing to sacrifice the whole world for his crush on Katara. It’s not just that he tends to thoughtlessly give into his impulses and desires without giving thought to how it affects others, it’s also that, because of who he is, that has the potential to cause immense damage and he still doesn’t care. As a father, he would always put himself before his wife and his children. He would treat Katara at least as badly and unfairly as he did in canon and his children would have the lovely experience of watching that and also growing up in a household where their wants and needs don’t really matter to their own father.

Another key factor when it comes to Aang’s personality is his avoidant tendencies. We see multiple times throughout the series just how far he’ll go to avoid doing things he doesn’t want to do, like preventing the world from complete destruction. In his household, I imagine he’d want no part of any of the real, ‘messy’ aspects of parenthood and would just have Katara do all those things. Anything to do with the mess of child care (changing diapers, cleaning up spit up, any sort of wound care for scraped knees, etc.), conflict resolution between quarreling siblings, or correction of misbehavior would fall to her. He, like plenty of real men, would only want to do the cute, fun parts of parenthood, like taking the kids to Disney, while making Mom the ‘bad guy’ who has to do all the real work. 

Then there’s also the impulsivity. Aang tends to get these ideas of things he wants to do and then, without any further thought, just goes and does them. This can be pretty harmless when it’s something like wanting to go penguin sledding and then going off and doing it but, as we’ve seen, there’s plenty of times where it isn’t, like when he hides Hakoda’s correspondence from Katara and Sokka in s1 because he’s feeling pissy. In parenthood, I think this is where we ended up with the unfair treatment showed in LoK because it’s his impulsivity driving it, but I don’t actually think he’d be out here treating his kids differently based on bending abilities, I think they’d all be pretty equally getting the short end of the stick from him. 

The way I see his impulsivity coming out with his family is either with grabbing the kids to go do something on a whim (like riding the elephant koi) or going off on his own or with Katara on some spur of the moment trip that leaves their kids alone or drags them away from home for weeks at a time with no notice. If they’d leave the kids alone while going off without them, that could lead to trauma around neglect and abandonment while, if they take the kids with them, the kids get stuck being dragged along and then ignored while Aang goes off to do all the stuff he’s there for that the kids weren’t really ever supposed to actually be part of. I think that, with stuff like this, the avoidance, and the toxic positivity, he’d think that he’s setting himself up to be the cool, fun dad with Katara being made out to be the ‘bad guy’ when, in truth, he’s out here fucking up his children and they’re going to know and hate him for it in the end.

The last part is the matter of his inability to regulate his emotions. It’s bad enough for anyone to have to sit there and watch as the same toxic positivity dickhead then struggles with anger issues he never even so much as apologizes for, but for his kids, I’m sure it’s unbearable. My dad has struggled with anger issues my whole life, as have I, but we take responsibility and we’ve both spent over two decades working on ourselves, trying to get better. Aang would never do that in any capacity. For his children, they’d get this environment where they can never be upset at all because it bothers Dad but then Dad can fly off into the fucking avatar state as soon as he’s even mildly inconvenienced. This model of ‘you being upset is just a little inconvenience you need to get over but when Dad’s upset it’s a huge deal and he’s actually allowed to be upset’ would be downright infuriating to live with and would definitely contribute to their children’s childhood trauma. It’s not just that you’re not allowed to be upset, it’s also that you always have to be walking on eggshells trying not to set this guy off.

Another thing I would add to this last point is something I learned from my family that I think is relevant here. My dad genuinely thought he was totally normal and didn’t have any anger issues until my brother and I were born, and he also was always really great with other people’s kids and never had problems there until he was working on the railroad with two babies at home. Yes, we’ve already seen Aang’s anger issues in canon, but I would also speculate that his mood and stuff would get worse once Tenzin’s born. This could either lead to him being absent for most of the kids’ early childhoods as he’d just avoid being around them if they’re triggering him or his anger issues could get worse and more prevalent once there’s kids in the mix. Either would be detrimental to his children’s mental health.

So I guess my point here is that LoK having it so Aang’s whole issue with fatherhood is that he treated his kids unequally doesn’t really cover the ways in which he’s set up to be a terrible father. I really don’t think favortism would even be an issue (I think all 3 kids would get dragged around to air nomad stuff, not just Tenzin) but Lord knows there’s other issues to be considered here. As a father, Aang would be selfish, impulsive, dismissive, thoughtless, and hypocritical as well as probably struggling with completely unchecked anger issues. His children would have trauma because of him and they would hate him, but not because he would leave two behind while dragging the eldest around on vacations. The cherry on top of the shit sundae of Aang’s fatherhood is that he would have no self awareness whatsoever as all of this would go unchecked by his wife and friends, so he would genuinely believe that he’s a good, fun, loving father all the way up to the moment of his death.

[punkeropercyjackson]

Every Kataang vs Zutara argument since the start has been only 2 things

A Zutara shipper attacks a Kataang shipper,often on a properly tagged post

A Zutara says something extremely bigoted and a Kataang shipper calls them gross for it and the Z/K shipper whines 'it's only fiction'

That's literally all this is.That's all it's ever been.All Kataang shippers have done is exist and have a moral backbone and all Zutara shippers have ever done is ignore and shit on Atla's radicalization messages and positive representation because they were so focused on their crush on Zuko they refused to absorb any of it and same goes for his redemption arc that was about him unlearning propaganda,giving reperations and breaking the cycle of abuse by becoming a pseudo-dad to Aang so he could heal his inner child,help out traumatized kids like he used to be and grow up to be his abuser's opposite to twist it into liberal 'Privileged people can never be abusers because it's just the way they were raised and shouldn't be blamed' bullshit and never have to self-reflect even though that was the whole thing that started the famous 'Zuko style redemption arc' phrase and show they asses as poser comrades since they think anarchism and activism is 'violence good' and nothing else

Zutara shippers do not have a right to start fights with Kataang shippers for posting anti Zutara or pro Kataang if the posts are tagged properly and i've noticed a certain few specific users on here who deliberately seek out those posts to 'debunk' and condesend the ops when nobody asked,nobody cares and nobody likes them and this is exactly what i mean with Z/K stans' extremist bigotry.Aang may not be real but the buddhists and tibetans and traumatized children you're insulting with your words of him are.Zuko may not be real but the asian men and mentally ill parental abuse victims and physically disabled people you're fetishizing with your potrayals of him are.Katara may not be real but the native women and punk women and adultitified girls you're degrading by erasing her radicalism are.Atla is not just a fictional cartoon,it's a mirror into our world's minorities told as a story and if it just a fictional cartoon,why don't Zutara shippers let it go?Zutara was never even offered to them and Zukka is not only not 'just Zutara but gay' since the dynamics are super different and Sokka is Katara's opposite but also a point in Zukka's favor seeing as Z/S shippers always ship Kataang,Korrasami and pretty much any combo of the TLA era girls and sometimes even perfer them to Zukka so it's plenty obvious they don't hate women and literally half of them ARE women with a fair amount of trans women specifically so they're's way more feminist Zukkas than they're are feminist Zutaras,who mind you are one thee definers for gender essentialist and ciscentric ships and shippers groups

Zutara shippers are not a minority.Nobody hates Zutara out of internalized misogyny because wanting Katara to date Zuko is not rooted in feminism and neither is having a crush on Zuko yourself on it's own and i say this as a Zuko selfshipper that made an Atlasona to be with him after reading the comics.New Atla kids don't deserve to have their experiences ruined by oldies who think ageism and gatekeeping is a term only for adults and when people tell you not to be bigots and roast you for it because bigotry is a very,very,VERY real thing in every context and you don't get to get away with it because you're saying to someone online or about depictions of real minorities.If somebody insults you for being a Zutara shipper,then you definitely used Zutara as an excuse to do something to earn it first.Zutara is not activism and Aang was and still is more revolutionary than your palpable ship could ever be and you hated him for it because you're jealous of him just like you are irl anarchists,activists and poc like him because we prioritize being good people over being normal and you were taught that's bad and that it means we must be 'on the wrong side' for it because you want him to be since once again,wished to date Zuko too much to learn from him instead or to let Katara be anything at all.Kataang shippers aren't to blame for that-You are.It's time to grow up

[zukosdualdao]

Im glad to read the takes of a fellow zuko stan :)

Honestly, it feels like people just hate on him way too much lately. The posts ive seen on twitter, on tik tok, on tumblr... Do people just not like him anymore? Why did everyone turn against him so suddenly? I've been hoping it's something temporary, just a trend, but. I don't know anymore. People mock his disability, spit on his trauma, wish death on him and interpret everything he says or does in the worst possible way. I saw someone crying about how entitled he was because he took aang's seat when watching the play just the other day lmao. Another person wrote about how mysoginistic he was because he didn't remember katara's name when asking about kya's death to sokka? There are those who even call him a colonizer on the same level as iroh lmao. It seems their justifications for all the salt they throw his way are along the lines of "he's been loved for too long, aang stans have suffered way more, people just watched the show again and realized how bad he actually was, he's catching strays since his fans keep setting him up, his fans paint him as perfect and erase every bad thing he's done" etc etc. I'm all for criticism and deeper character analysis, but this is just said in bad faith. I also think it has a bit to do with how different engagement has become in fandom spaces recently (things people support in fiction need to be morally correct) and well, zuko was the perfect target. He's done bad things, sides with the villains for a good portion of the series, redeems himself but there are things he still has to work on... I don't know, it's been getting to me. There are many other harsh things ive read said about him (like implying how every single member of the gaang hates even after redeeming himself), but i honestly don't have the energy to delve into each and every one. His arc was poorly executed and his development was badly written now, apparently. I kind of just ranted here, i apologize. Im very happy to read the posts of someone who genuinely likes him and doesnt throw him under the bus to defend or elevate other characters...

hi! i'm glad you're enjoying my blog <3 and no need to apologize for the rant, i'm always happy to talk about zuko!

about to theorize a bit as to why it seems like maybe zuko has become a more contentious character, but it should be noted i have not been exceptionally, actively involved in the fandom very long. i loved atla as a kid, have retained fond memories, have witnessed some discourse from the fringes over the years, but only recently has it overtaken my brain to the point of making a whole blog about it. lol. so, like, grain of salt, etc.

i think a big part of it is what you said - in the last few years of fandom in particular, it feels like there has been a huge upswing in purity culture, moralizing liking/not liking certain ships or characters, and an overall increase in very black-and-white thinking. there's also an emphasis on "holding people accountable" (good in theory), often without specifying what, exactly, that looks like (less good). the idea then becomes that if you've done harmful things, there's no way you can ever make up for them and should just, like, hate yourself for all eternity and also die, probably, which is not actually helpful to anyone.

so, i think for those who ascribe to that mindset, zuko is a prime candidate for them to criticize. and while there's nothing wrong with criticizing a character or their arc or writing if you truly have a problem with it, as you've said, a lot of the time, criticisms against zuko don't seem to be made in very good faith. after all, a big part of zuko's arc is having to unlearn some very black-and-white thinking. also, zuko is not a real person. he is a character, and therefore a narrative tool, and if we want him to be 'held accountable', we need look no further than the story itself, in which he is probably the character the narrative holds the most accountable for his actions due to his prior status as a villain.

(it reminds me a bit, actually, of another favorite character of mine: alec in the tv series shadowhunters. he starts out the story already in a heroic role, unlike zuko, but a big part of his narrative is unlearning some prejudiced cultural mindsets and challenging not only his previous ideologies, but his conception of himself and the people in his life as well. as a result, alec can look sometimes more obviously flawed than the other main cast, but the point is that the narrative asks him to examine those flaws and change and introspect and grow in a way that it doesn't always ask of other characters when they are showcasing their own flaws. which does make me thing about zuko vs. aang in the atla narrative.)

the other thing i think is contributing to zuko's more contentious status in the fandom is how long atla's been in the cultural consciousness, and how common it is for things that used to be popular to cycle through to people starting to criticize or actively hate it to people saying "no, actually, it's still pretty good, you just don't want to like a popular thing" (this is me rn), to maybe eventually getting popular again/at least in certain subsects of the audience. zuko was probably one of the most talked-about aspects of atla for a long time, and while i can understand how that could get frustrating (because there are some other really great characters and aspects of the story!), that's not, like, for no reason. people connected with and admired his story for a reason, and many still do, and (in my humble opinion) that is because it is one of the most thought-out, intentional, and nuanced character arcs of the show.

the ableism, i think, really gets to me because like... even if every criticism from the people who hate him were 100% accurate and said in good faith (they're not, but let's pretend for a minute)... that still wouldn't be an excuse for ableism against a character with a prominent facial difference (or making fun of abuse survivors for the permanent injuries they sustain from abuse.) if zuko had never redeemed himself and stayed a villain, it would still be wrong to talk about his scar and abuse the way some of his detractors do. and the show agrees with me! you know how i know? the only two characters to ever make fun of zuko's scar are villains in the narrative: zhao and azula. ("make fun of" might not be quite right for zhao, since what he said - "you have the scar to prove it" - is far more matter-of-fact than azula imitating him by covering her eye or "make sure they get your good side", but he's absolutely being a huge jerk about it.) other characters react to zuko's scar in all sorts of different ways, even when he's still in a villain/antagonist/anti-hero role: zuko's crew is horrified to learn how he got the scar, song sees a point of connection and tries to reach out to him, but, while i think well-intentioned, she breaks a major boundary by trying to touch his scar when he hasn't conveyed he's okay with that, jet makes assumptions about his background because of it, lee, the kid from zuko alone, asks with curious, childish naivete how he got it, only for his father to reprimand him for asking, aang reacts with annoyance/boredom to azula's ableist joke, and katara trips over her words to correct him when zuko thinks she's essentially calling him "scary to look at". not all of these interactions are positive, but the characters (all of whom are written as pretty sympathetic, even if also flawed) aren't outright trying to make fun of him for it, and the narrative never implies he deserves to be treated as less than because of it, even before his redemption.

anyway. if people don't believe in characters' (and, hell, irl people's) capacity for growth and change and don't want to have nuanced discussions about how trauma can impact these things, i mean... that's their prerogative, but i don't understand why they enjoy the show, because those are big parts of it (and not just wrt zuko.)

i know it can be frustrating, anon— trust me, i get very frustrated. but i promise you, there are plenty of people out there who a) still love zuko and his story and b) are capable of and willing to talk about things with nuance and in good faith. i'm happy to be part of that corner of fandom, and i bet you can manage to carve out a space where more people like that exist, too! <3

[sokkastyles]

What do you think of the argument that Zuko continues to be arrogant and prideful in Book 3? I'm sure you've seen this post already, but I just wanted to know your thoughts on this. These are their words.

"Late Book 3.5 Zuko has changed significantly, but he can still be very arrogant, prideful, bitter, or hostile(some examples).* He continues to even sometimes put others down. He most certainly wasn’t obligated to let go of his bitterness toward those he felt hurt him. The idea that Ozai’s abuse someone made Zuko “less bitter” seems insane to me."

OP brought up the line in The Firebending Masters where Zuko says they can take them in a fight because they're the fire prince and the Avatar. Then they brought up Zuko saying he could take Azula in a fight in the finale to prove that he's still arrogant. Also, an example they used for the put others down thing is the infamous "air temple preschool" line. And to prove he's still violent and hostile, they pointed to him attacking Aang in the finale. I was taking a break from Azula stan insanity, but this argument pulled me out of retirement.

There's an obvious difference between excessive pride driven by a selfish need to be better than others and pride in oneself and one's accomplishments as a virtue.

And I would argue, and have argued before, that Zuko's arc has a lot to do with distinguishing that difference, as an abuse victim who was repeatedly told that his only sense of worth was tied to his abuser.

Zuko convincing Aang to see things through and that they could face whatever challenges might be coming is what allowed them to face the dragons. Without that, they would never have been judged worthy to begin with because they would have run away before they got the chance.

Getting rid of excessive pride and arrogance does not mean becoming a doormat. It also doesn't mean you stop being angry at people who deserve your anger. That's also a big lesson of "The Southern Raiders" that Katara learned as well. She didn't forgive her mother's murderer, and she'll never stop being angry at the man who killed her. And she doesn't need to do that. That was what Zuko was objecting to that Aang was preaching, and he knew that Katara didn't need to forgive because he himself knows what it's like to carry that anger which he probably will carry for the rest of his life. But that's okay. Ozai certainly deserves Zuko's anger and bitterness and probably more than that, because I'd argue that Zuko is way more forgiving than he deserves. The important thing is that Zuko is not directing that anger outward anymore at people who don't deserve it. It doesn't mean he never gets angry or he never disagrees with anyone about anything, it means that he's not trying to hurt himself or others anymore.

But trying to muddle that difference is a gaslighting technique that abusers use so I am not surprised that that person would use it.

But the thing about excessive pride is that it also makes you cowardly. Zuko has the confidence to face the dragons but he also knows that this means he has to submit himself to their judgment, and that is an inherently humbling experience that takes confidence to face. The same thing with fighting Azula, which, by the way, he is not doing for fun or his own benefit. He's doing it to save the world, and he's confident enough to know he can face her but humble enough to admit he can't do it on his own. These things show that he's learned how to find balance in his life, neither becoming overcome with excessive pride or becoming excessively timid or insecure, and that's a GOOD thing.

[atla-confessions]

To all people who are writing "character/ship defense" posts - please do go on! Keep it up! Share your love! Protect your favorites! It works, I promise! You can make a difference!

I absolutely hated Mai and maiko - but after reading some great analyses I warmed up, now I see what interesting is in Mai's character and how her relationship with Zuko can actually work. Still not a shipper but believe me, that was a huuuuge change for me. All because of people who expressed their love and provided solid arguments. You are awesome!

I almost didn't care about Jet - now, thanks to his fans, I enjoy his story very much. There was such depth to him that I didn't see, but people who did opened my eyes. Thank you!

I loathed Azula, but now, even though I think her stans are often going too far praising her, they revealed to me the aspects of her arc that I even find appealing. I still wish her story was handled better, but again - a huge step from blind hatred.

The only exception is zutara, because the ways shippers mischaracterise and outright butcher my two favorite main cast members (Katara and Zuko) all the time make me sick and mad. They made me detest the ship I was originally indifferent to. But anyway, I believe they can do better and probably, one day, sometime in the future there will be posted at least one zutara meta that is at least half-decent.

X

[survivalove]

Is it just me or is “I personally would forgive a boy for violating my boundaries so it’s ok for Katara to be portrayed that way” the same logic as “I personally want to be a hot guy’s arm candy so fire lady Katara is an empowering trope”? Like idk, I can’t get behind either ship for Katara. Neither one gives her character genuine power and the fans of both still fall back on the same stupid “she chose it so it’s feminist” fallacy that’s in vogue rn. I feel like both sides of the “ship war” are women projecting on Katara and the only difference between them is which variety of toxic masculinity they’re attracted to

I wouldn’t say the logic is necessarily the same, since these statements seem to be on very differing levels…

for the first one, i don’t think anyone’s projecting because as you said that is how she is depicted. i can’t say how i would react if i was in katara’s shoes because there’s no way I can imagine myself in that specific relationship or in her literal shoes. i personally haven’t seen anyone try to rebrand her forgiveness specifically as feminist even though I’m sure there are people doing that out there, but I agree it’s not.

let’s establish that not every choice a woman makes is feminist. that’s the problem I have with choice feminism which is what you’re talking about. women and girls these days are trying to spin every choice they make as feminist or empowering. just because something personally empowers you, doesn’t make it inherently feminist. there is nothing feminist about women marrying men in general, but women do and make other choices based on whatever circumstances that that led them there.

what i will say is i don’t typically police women and girls for not having the reactions they “should have”. does that mean that i think the reaction is feminist or that the choice is the right choice? nope and I don’t. again, not everything a woman does is feminist and you don’t have to agree with or support everything a woman does, real or otherwise.

feminism is a critical political movement with active conscious choices being made. on the other hand, there are women who autonomously uphold patriarchy, so no not every choice a woman makes is feminist.

that being said, if you don’t want to ship kataang that’s fine. i know a lot of katara stans that don’t ship either and i myself was like that for quite a few years growing up.

now the second statement seems to be downplaying a LOT (like zuko is way more than a “hot guy” and the fact that you kinda left out that he also violated katara multiple times makes me a bit skeptical of this ask) but i’m gonna respond anyway. all i’ll say is that this would actually be projection considering katara has no inkling in canon of wanting to be with zuko or to be fire lady. she even hates the idea of her own father living in a palace after the war. so it takes a very conscious effort to ship this and say “this is what katara would want” when this is just simply not what is presented to us at all.

compared to kataang, we see this is a choice (of course made by the mostly male writers) that katara makes over and over again in the series. katara kissing aang on the cheek, touching him every 5 seconds, showing attraction to him, getting jealous of other girls that are attracted to him, kissing him and kissing him back, even after EIP. is any of this feminist or moving women forward? lol no it’s a het romance in a kids’ show but I don’t see how one would have to project on to katara to enjoy the ship as it’s depicted.

do i like kataang for katara, yes. am i attracted to aang, ABSOLUTELY NOT. do I think katara could have achieved everything she achieved post canon if she wasn’t in a relationship with aang, of course!!! does me, a woman, liking any het ship make it feminist, negative.