#there's a lot about s3 that i need more backstory for

[destinationtoast]

@thetarttfuldickhead's tags just making me want to cry and to hug Roy (especially contrasted with Ted's squirrelly jumping around during his first session, you know? *sniff*):

#forever losing my mind over the look on roy's face here#so goddamned vulnerable#reinforced by the fact that he's sitting down and dr sharon is standing#like that'd be perfectly normal for anyone else waiting for the doctor to arrive#but here it very much feels like A Choice#both from a doylist perspective but also form a watsonian one#roy sitting down as a (potentially subconscious) sign that he is - in a way - surrendering to this#is open to it and willing to do the work#even if it scares him#i have never wanted to hug roy more#or been prouder of him#and the way dr sharon smiles?#she is so very very kind#maybe roy x therapy was the real ship otp all along

TED LASSO — 3.12 “So Long, Farewell”.

[babacontainsmultitudes]

He's a used car salesman. He has a heart of gold. He can't parallel park. He has two gay witch italian dads. He chops the wood. He has a magical talking cat mom. He's an assassin. He isn't an assassin. He's actually the cat from earlier. He's trans (female cat to male human). He's been shot through the heart. He was in Dewar. He was not in the war. He was in Dewar. He's on his last of nine lives. He just had a marble shoved down his throat. He's even bisexual. I didn't say his name, but he popped into your head, didn't he?

[nerdyramennoodle]

Finished TMA, I know I rarely post but here's a WIP </3

Also here's my ratings and some thoughts I had...

💥SPOILERS💥

S1 8/10

Some of the best statements, slow start and wish we had more time with Sasha and Tim bc of how much we get later on, amazing finale episodes and the second half really picks up by the end I was captivated.

S2 9/10

Amazing starting to learn more lore, loved paranoid Jon and all the Martin stuff we get, the tunnel stuff was actually terrifying and this season really had a great motif with the supplementals idk wether to call this season one of the scariest or funniest. Also Daisy Basira and Melanie slowly becoming more relevant is amazing I love them so much! Also the pay off with Not!Sasha attacking Jon and the Elias reveal is amazing!

S3 10/10

Probably my favorite because of how many gems you get, Episode 100 being hilarious, Michael's backstory, learning Martin and Tim's reasons for getting the job, Tim's connection to the Stranger who has been built up as one of my favorite villians and being personified through Nikola AAHAHH I love this season sm. MY GIRL MELANIE getting so much more time, OMG and the trips Jon goes on to discover more about his connection to the Eye and all the different avatars! Ugh I could gush about this season for hours. The perfect mix of spooky and lore and funny with a tragic ending.

S4 9/10

Still amazing but is docked a point because of how much less Martin and Melanie time you get, also I've never been a fan of the coma trope and was getting skeptical at the beginning but it pays off alot, I love how much Daisy and Basira get here and how much Jon really changes, loosing Tim and essentially loosing Martin is really interesting for his charcter growth and this is the season you can really feel it and SEE it and it also sets up his hero complex he gets for next season, loosing Sasha and Tim really has an important effect on his character. Also they make it so believable how Jon starts to realize he has feelings for Martin and how much he misses him and all the moments you get of him mourning the friendship they had gotten in s3. It's a lot to explore and as much as I was skeptical at first the pay off with Jon changing sm and THE FINALE!! is really worth it. This season also has my personal favorite Finale of all the seasons.

S5 9.5/10

I won't write too much about s5 because I'm still digesting it bc it's alot, but I loved it! The way Jon and Martin's interactions are so realistic and fun to hear, and the impending doom, that you realize half way though, that one or both of them may die is crushing but great. This season also has more scary statments that didnt affect me as much in s4 more like s2 and 3 again. Also love all the stuff the girlies get, and along with s3 hurting my soul so much this season managed to bring me to tears twice, with Daisy, Jon and Martin RIP </3

Overall I love this series so much and I loved listening to it I might listen to protocol now but I need a small break ugh...

📼👁🦷🦴🫀🕸🐈‍⬛☁️

[dykesynthezoid]

I do think we’re getting at least some escalation of devil’s minion in s3 btw. And I don’t think that’s even me being hopeful or optimistic I think it’s literally just logical.

I’ve seen people say oh, but devil’s minion happens in QOTD, and s3 is TVL; and firstly, they’ve definitely made it sound like some elements of queen of the damned are going to be present in s3. Secondly, I suspect season 3 is going to end with the lead up to Lestat’s San Francisco concert. So the whole season will be both Lestat backstory + the set up for the events of QOTD. And devil’s minion happens, guess what, before Lestat’s San Francisco concert. It would almost not make sense to not at least touch on it while the other story beats are culminating up to that moment. Like, Daniel and Armand are already present in the story (where they aren’t in the book in the modern day storyline), why would you not continue their storylines to the next logical step?

Also, I think you have to consider just how many new characters and storylines QOTD introduces and how daunting that can be to absorb if you’re unfamiliar. Waiting to do anything with devil’s minion until season 4 means that’s just one more new storyline to have to inject into a narrative already very crowded with exposition. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense to do that, and I suspect the writers are pretty aware of that.

And frankly like. What other storylines would Daniel and Armand be getting? Like how are either of their stories supposed to move forward without, y’know, each other? Are we supposed to expect all of season 3 just to be one big pause button on both their larger narratives? That seems very silly. Daniel at least has the journey of adjusting to vampirism, but Armand especially is like. His semi-redemption and character evolution comes from devil’s minion. That’s the only real next step for him.

And I mean. Look at Assad and Eric. I don’t think Rolin Jones could convince them to wait a whole other season for something to happen if he tried. I know, I know it’s easy to be like “oh but maybe it’s just actors being silly” but compare how open they’re being about it now and how much more tight lipped they were in between seasons one and two. It’s night and day. It is a very very different vibe. And apparently, Assad has been plenty excited about it this entire time, so he was actually somehow managing to keep his mouth shut before. But now maybe he doesn’t need to, because he knows season 3 will at least offer something in the way of that development.

I think it’s entirely possible we won’t necessarily see the full “culmination” of their relationship until season 4, but I do think season 3 will at least have development and escalating tensions that are undeniable. I think it’ll likely start out slow and ramp up as the season continues. I’m not going to panic if we don’t get much in the first few episodes or if it takes until episode five to see Daniel’s turning. That might be needed, honestly, in terms of giving Lestat his necessary focus. But I think more small pieces will begin to accumulate, will escalate to a place of higher tension by the mid season, and then the finale will include some type of reveal or emotional climax, setting things up going into season 4.

And you know what, it’s worth mentioning: things have happened faster on this show than I expected before! I did not expect Daniel to be turned at the end of season 2. I thought we probably had a whole other season to go before that happened. “Well they were afraid of cancellation” / “well Eric just wanted to be a vampire so badly” and will these things also not apply to season 3/Eric and Assad wanting devil’s minion?? Idk babes. I’m doing the math and it doesn’t seem that crazy to me

[bluedalahorse]

YR Secondary Character Ask Game (for joy and connection 💜)

Hi everyone! I’ve created an ask game focused on the “secondary” characters in Young Royals. The way this works is that you can answer the questions with any character or combination of characters except for Simon and Wilhelm (for the single character answers) or wilmon (for the more than one character answers.) We’ve had a lot of excellent wilmon-focused games over the past few weeks that have been pretty enjoyable, so I created this game to open the floor up for other characters and keep the joy going.

Send me an ask with a number and I’ll answer:

Favorite secondary character

Favorite secondary romantic and/or sexual pairing

Favorite platonic friendship

Favorite triad or polyship

Favorite familial relationship

Character(s) you have ace, aro, or queerplatonic headcanons for

Character you didn’t initially like/love but have now warmed up to

Pairing you didn’t initially like/love but have now warmed up to

Favorite non-Edmar actor

Favorite s1 scene centered on a secondary character

Favorite s2 scene centered on a secondary character

Favorite s3 scene centered on a secondary character

Secondary character you think should have had more screentime

Any ships (crackships included) involving Simon or Wilhelm that break up Wilmon? We won’t tell!

Adult character whose teenage backstory would make the best spin-off series

A song that reminds you of a secondary character or pairing

Secondary character or pairing that needs more fanart

Favorite fic centered on a secondary character or pairing

Shout out a fanfic author for their writing of a secondary character (or characters) in a subplot

Dream fanfic about a secondary character and pairing that you’d love to read but don’t want to write yourself

Most underrated character/ship/actor overall

Reblog to play along yourself!

[imthepunchlord]

What's a show you liked that was really good, but the network it was on screwed it over and got it canceled? For me, it's Thundercats 2011 and The Secret Saturdays.

Oh man there's a good few.

Rise of the Teenage Mutant Turtles comes to mind. Thus far, it was my favorite adaptation of the concept. Animation was good, the brothers felt like actual brothers, and they made changes I genuinely liked. It was planned for 3 seasons, but unfortunately, we got a season and a half, as Nick canceled it mid s2 development, and they had to hurry to try and wrap up Rise with half a season.

You actually get to hear of some of the plans that we didn't get to see like Mikey taking care of his brothers turned into tots, Mikey and Raph crashing Ice Bear's wedding, and getting to discover who Big Mama's assistance was, who was potentially a lost sister; and we probably would've gotten expanded Draxum and Cassandra redemption, maybe an ep to show the backstory of how April met the turtles, probably more April-Cassandra eps as those two are usually paired together; and to see their take of the Rat King, who was set up to be worse than the Krangs and man, I don't know how they would've topped the Krangs. I am both scared and intrigued what they had in mind. But chances are good I'll never get to see.

Owl House is another. It was also planned for 3 seasons, but Disney said no, let's do 3 specials for season 3. And of course, after they realized how popular Owl House was but too late. I will say, for what they had to work with, they did do a really good job.

Amphibia sorta feels like another, I'm not sure if it actually was, but the last season feels like two seasons combined into one.

Inside Job. It's one of the very few adult animated shows I did like, I usually don't click with them as they're focused on drugs and sex and a lot jokes don't click with me; but that one I did actually enjoy... It may be that it had some wholesomeness to it, as a lot adult animated shows, from what I've seen, are really mean spirited. But IJ did have some really wholesome, solid friendship moments, that made it very refreshing. So RIP IJ. You got screwed.

Oh! Infinity Train is an easy stand out. That is one of the most intriguing, most mature, most complex, and most human cartoons I've ever seen. And it went super dark in it's concepts. And there were so many interesting ideas that the creator had, and at this time, those are ideas we won't see. It's a big shame that it got the most attention after it got removed from Max. This is probably next to Rise in seeing more seasons of, if we get the chance to get more.

Um... maaaaybe AtLA? That show was an easy stand out to have 4 seasons, especially as the whole thing is tied to 4 elements and 4 nations. I don't know if Nick was like, you need to stop at s3, or if Bryke was the one who was like stop at s3. And I will say, for the latter half of s3, some of the writing and characterization just feels off, though I did hear there was a lot of conflict between Bryke and the head writers, and that Bryke got involved more often so maybe that was it?

I know one of the head writers wanted s4 and had plans for it. And I will say, there are things I do think about that I wish I got to see in the show, but it never came up. These potentially could have if we had gotten 4 seasons.

Zuko and Toph having their own adventure.

Zuko and Soka having the same teacher of the blade and having a match to test their capability.

Just, in general, more of Zuko working off the Gaang.

Katara working off Suki, her potential future sister-in-law.

A resolution on Toph with her parents or at least her mom.

Covering the origins of the Avatar (especially as I disliked Korra's answer of it, and I lean not counting it as LoK has a different idea of spirits vs AtLA; so I wonder what AtLA would've said about it).

I also would've loved to see more spirits in general, s3 was lacking of them.

There's Ursa and her whereabouts, what I hear comic wise I don't like; so I wonder what AtLA's take and plan was.

Zuko reuniting with his crew from s1 (did they even survive Zhao's invasion?).

Zuko ever coming across the 41st Division, which I think is another big emotional missed opportunity, as him standing up for them is what "costed" him his honor, but just imagine them bowing to him in thanks, validating his stance as honorable, that he was right; that could've been huge for Zuko emotionally. Which, this is something I'll give to the NAtLA, having Zuko's crew be the 41st I thought was a really good choice.

I know the head writer had an idea for an Azula redemption, which I would've been open and intrigued to see, especially as he revealed it was going to be darker and harder than Zuko's, and Zuko would've taken what he learned from Iroh to help her, and supposedly end up an Azula who apologies often and over shares her feelings (which could end up being very funny).

I'm also bummed we never got to see Kuzon or Lu Ten (outside a drawing).

Oh! And seeing Aang and Ty Lee work off each other, especially as there's a possibility that Ty Lee is an AN descendant, given that she has gray eyes, moves quickly, and has an airy personality.

Which, if she is, that is a missed opportunity for Aang's emotional healing, the realization that he's not as alone as he thought. That there's another who shares his heritage. That could've been huge, could've been a tear jerker.

This is about it. There's probably more, but these are the stand outs to me that I feel got screwed over (or potentially screwed over).

[bananathebookworm]

TLOVM S3 Eps 7-9 Ramblings

Ep. 7

Oh boy... Anna backstory... that can't mean anything important is about to happen...

Aw, poor Trinket

I love that Vex and Percy think they're successfully hiding but everyone else just wants them to stop fucking in the shared spaces of the mansion

Pike is killing me this episode. I love that they've been able to fill out more of her personality and we can see more of the goofy side. Makes me wish we'd had her/Ashley for all of campaign one.

Oh good. Trauma for everyone.

I love Orthax's design.

Always here for more Zerxus. And Luis.

Oh shit. Orthax arm.

Anna's movements are so cool.

Oh this slow-mo stand-off is so cool.

Fuck. Fuck fuck fuck. No.

Okay. Cool. I'm fine.

Scanlan's gone. Percy's dead. Everything is pain. Holy fuck.

I'm very looking forward to whenever the "How do you, Vox Machina, want to do this?" moment happens. I'll say right now though that it was so beautiful in it's original form because their triumph over Ripley wasn't really a triumph.

Ep. 8

Percy backstory.

Uh... are they not resurrecting him? The fuck?

Well at least Scanlan's back. Hope this doesn't lead to resentment that he was gone.

Twins backstory

I love when Grog has his random moment of intelligence

Love a good "Rallying the troops" montage.

Zahra and Kash!

Remember when this whole plan was created because Kash/Will was like "You all suck at war, this is how you're supposed to do this." and everyone was in awe?

Ep. 9

Better late than never I guess? Glad to see Zahra and Kash joining the fray.

"Ive never mad a plan before" "Neither has anyone else" D&D in a nutshell.

Um. Kash wasn't supposed to die. What the fuck.

Taking "I have passed through fire" a little too literally.

"Make the fucker bleed for it." Fuck yes.

Welp. Shit. Babies are hatching.

"Fix him." Oh my heart. Though again, the original hit a lot harder for me.

Fuck. Yes. Pike. Taking a page out of Grog's book and raging.

And this entire moment with Vax is gorgeous.

So... about Raishan... Keyleth please trust your instincts more.

General

Are resurrections still going to happen? I feel like they'll have to. Unless they're going to make a completely new, original to the story character for Taliesin for some reason. Though I do like that Percy's death is given time to settle in before he's brought back.

I am curious, since this season seems to (arguably) deviate the most from the original material... Have certain changes been made because they aren't guaranteed a season 4 and they needed to make sure if this is the last season everything has finality?

[nalyra-dreaming]

How are you Nalyra,I'm hope we are 'ot too annoying ?

I know there a lot of talk about Loumand at the TG l know it's not as romantic that some fans are making it.Im admiting I have only read summaries and I like the idea of Louis having someone to take care of him not in poor meow meow way,I know he is century old vampire but more in the way that Louis also have a life outside of Lestat and their relationship and other people that care for him ,show-Louis is more fleshed out so there a need to correct that Lestat is not all his life right?

You know most of the time as someone who loves Louis and Lestat equally I feel like people see Lestat as his own character that had a life before and outside Loustat which is fair and normal.

But when it comes to Louis everything is centered to Loustat,at least for most fans you just have to see what people are posting mostly about him,I'll say 90% of times people talking about Louis is in his relation to Lestat.

I'm not hating on Loustat,just like any normal person watching iwtv I love them. I just wish Louis could also have his things outside that doesn't revolve around Lestat,like any normal relationship.

I'm not saying the s3 should be about Louis as much as Lestat I know it's Lestat's season I can't wait for his backstory, but even if it's off screen I wish they could give Louis something for him .

I feel like it became a rant that have nothing to do with you but I guess I wanted your opinion?

I'm pretty sure s3 will be as much about Louis as about Lestat(!)... that said, Louis' journey in the books (and I am actually quite sure it will be similar in the show) is about accepting himself, who he is, what he is... and who he loves.

And... Louis' state of being, namely who he is now, what he is now... is directly tied to Lestat. And simply cannot be apart from that fact.

When Lestat turned Louis he changed Louis' path. Everything after will always be defined by that decision, and that moment.

That is why Louis laid it out in 2x08, little other decisions wouldn't have changed anything... he always would have ended up kissing Lestat on the altar.

And kissing Lestat on the altar - accepting the offer - is the focal point in Louis' story.

I am sure there will be more in "stock" for Louis than just yearning after Lestat. 100%.

But this show is built on this premise. The books are built around that as well (among other things).

So while I do know what you mean - and while that is a very honorable wish (I say without any sarcasm!) - it might not be a premise that will be fulfilled within the story lines, at least not in a way that is fully separate. Because it cannot be, not in what they already set everything up, and built the basis.

Because Louis' very (state of) being will always be tied to Lestat.

That is, btw, part of what he needs to accept/is accepting there, too. Because it is nothing easy to accept, to realize you will always be bound to that person, one way or the other (and I don't even mean their vampire bond here^^).

[lolirockenjoyer]

Lolirock season 3 MUST HAVE (in my opinion)

1. More Lyna, Carissa, Izira, Jodan and Lev (if he's alive)

I would like to see them helping the princesses and I hope will know about Calix/Borealis and Lyna and Carissa family more

2. MEPHISTO MUST BE ALIVE😭

It's a thing which every lolirock fan want so I have to add it. Sorry but I can't imagine lolirock without Mephisto and I can't imagine season 3 without happy ending. If it turns out he's really dead I will be so fucking dissappointed

3. Auriana and Talia parents

We saw picture of Auriana's parents but WHAT'S WITH TALIA'S PARENTS??

4. Natahaniel will find out about Iris, Talia, Auriana origin and about Ephedia

I honestly can't believe it won't happen. I mean it's actually impossible because if Iris wants to save Nathaniel, she has to tell him. Btw I really hope the princesses will escape with Nathaniel on Ephedia and the rest of the season will be there

5. The princesses will try to stop or help Praxina

I know, they don't have to do it but I can realize like Iris truly wants to help her or "fix her" (we literally see that in 'forget you'). I have a lot of potencial endings for s3 and the vision of princesses kill Praxina or smth like that is tragic for me. Please give her a redemption, give e24s2 meaning in the show😭

6. WHO TF IS BANES??? (And Zanavian)

He's not just a tiger and everybody knows that

7. New songs, maybe new characters

I'm pretty sure we will get some new songs but Idk if budget let team give us some new characters but I'm just telling it would be cool and it will show that is something new yk

8. TWINS BACKSTORY

RAAAAAAAH I WAIT FOR IT. I'm also sure it will be show because teamlolirock said that in one of their post on tumblr. I want to know who they are, where they live, who their parents were and why they worked with Gramorr. I also would adore the twins parents canon picture or anything like that

9. Praxina angst

I NEED A LOT OF ANGST. I need to see Praxina's suffering and deterioration of mental condition. I love her so much, she and her brother are my favorite character I just love angst so much

10. If Mephisto surivive I want some cute moment between twins, we just didn't get a lot of them :((

11. Gramorr's backstory

I need it more than my life. He's so interesting character tbh I want to know why and how he started with black crystal

12. I would like to see one (or even both) of the twins ends up with one of the princesses (no, I didn't mean Auristo and Praxalia, why?)

13. PRAXINA AND TALIA PAST?

They had common past and you can't prove me wrong

14. Explaining Morgaine and Gramorr relationship

I will DIE without it

15. And The most important. I know it's kids cartoon but lolirockers grew up for years and I hope it will be more umm mature? If you know what I mean

[mdhwrites]

Do you think Boscha was treated unfairly in the context of the show? I know you've said before what you would have wanted her characterization to be, but what do you think of her character as we have it in TOH - and do you think fan and narrative treatment lines up with this?

I'm going to ignore the fan element. Fandom is going to fandom after all. However, I can easily say where her narrative treatment went wrong in the show!

She should not have been in S3.

This is always a fun topic to me essentially because I am pro-Boscha. You ask me what her character is, the potential of it, etc. like that and I can give you reams of thoughts. However, I also said, before S2 came out and I was working on a fanfic where Boscha was quickly becoming the main character, that I didn't think Boscha should show up again. The reason is pretty simple too. TOH already had a lot of threads to pull and Boscha's narrative use was over. Honestly, Hexside was essentially was used up by then.

Boscha is a minor supporting character to the main character's love interest. Not a major supporting character, a minor one. Amity's family is MUCH more important to her character than her one bitchy friend. The only use Boscha had narratively was to both contrast how Amity was changing and to also allow Amity an antagonist to overcome as she made her way to being on the side of good. Her being a one note bully is perfect for that and exactly how she should have been written. Winging it Like Witches capitalizes on this and fulfills both of her purposes and Amity cuts Boscha out of her life so... Why are we still seeing her? She is no longer even a supporting cast member to the love interest, she is just a floating character in the background.

And in S2, we get a fine answer for that. She's essentially one of the townsfolk of Wartwood in Amphibia. Someone who can show up for a quick gag but doesn't take up too much time. We're not trying to progress her character, we're just taking advantage of the fact that she's not gone. She's a gag but it's genuinely rooted in her character unlike the one joke that King or Hooty have that we're just supposed to mock. This worked. Period.

Then S3 tries to give her an arc. Why? Well... Because it doesn't want to be a kid's show. Kid's shows after all, like Amphibia, have characters who don't have some deep backstory or brooding complexity, they're just... Fun. They're nice. They aren't complicated. Boscha, WAY too late, was made to be complicated during a shortened season so the show could claim it had one more redemption? So it could claim its shallow bully character wasn't shallow? And she takes up a good amount of time in this episode for this when you have THREE SPECIALS. The stress of the world ending isn't enough to cause Willow to lose control, she needs one more push from Boscha. We finally have to acknowledge that what Amity did was a complete dick move to her best friend and then not actually acknowledge it because Amity gets to just be morally superior instead of a decent human being to this girl having a mental breakdown. It's awkward, clunky and does NO favors to Boscha besides just kind of making her look pathetic, which is a pretty common trick in TOH for trying to redeem someone. Boscha isn't so bad because she's actually a loser and not as bad as someone else in her nearby vicinity.

Why? Why do this? Why do this TWO SEASONS after Boscha was no longer narratively useful? It is just pointless to your overall story so it should have been cut. THAT is Boscha's biggest problem in the show and if anyone told me they couldn't forgive her for adding filler to S3, I couldn't tell them they're wrong.

I love Boscha. That means I know when to let her go, something the show should have learned if they actually cared about her. See you next tale.

======+++++======

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

A Twitter you can follow too

And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.

[zabala0z]

Hi I listened to six episodes of S3 and I’m back. I have nothing to do and school starts on Monday so lemme give my thoughts 🗣️

MAG 81: A Guest For Mr. Spider

Happy that Jon’s safe and in hiding! I remember Georgie was mentioned in Melanie Kings first statement so I guess she counts as a friend. Another spider theme. There’s so many spiders and I’m wondering what entity that could like fall under. I’m curious on “The Eye” because it hasn’t done anything, it just watched. Which makes sense. But Michael mentioned before that Jon being protected by it so is it like…chill????

MAG 82: The Eyewitnesses

Oh I hate Elias that little bitch I swear to god. Also the fact that the recorder didn’t turn off when they tried during Tims statement was interesting. Is The Eye doing that?? I don’t know maybe it’s just going weird.

Feeling bad for Daisy. Like she’s a murderer yeah but I like her ☹️ and I hate Elias. Super curious on his backstory though

MAG 83: Drawing a Blank

Auughhegughf I hate mannequins. Especially in games when you look away and they’re like getting closer. I’m wondering what the hell the deal was with this. Cause sometimes you can kinda gauge a motivation but this mannequin kinda just did a lot of stuff. Although the circus theme kinda reminded me of that one circus mentioned before. Maybe it’s like an element of The Stranger. Cause like mannequins are faceless and kinda take on different identities everytime you dress them y’know?? Lana was found partially skinned. Maybe the mannequin wanted that. Now that I know about these entities, I’m totally gonna search for links with them. I’m a sucker for cool horrors of humanity.

Also Breekon and Hopes deliveries mention!! I’m thinking they replaced the OG mannequin.

MAG 84: Possessive

Kind of another disease/gross shit theme in here? Also chills when they said “Gordie’s Dump” like eugh that got me. I’m still trying to understand what Maggie was doing. Like the boy saw Gordon’s face out of newspaper in the mud but Gordon was also in the house, Maggie smoothing paper over his face. Is she making like clones out of paper. Is she paper machéing clones???? They said whenever Gordon came to school, he had dirt under his fingernails so I’m thinking like every day he’s like replaced or something and then Maggie buried him??? I think.

MAG 85: Upon the Stair

This one was a lil hard because it’s a very strangely narrated statement but I managed! It made me think of Cheating Death where someone will replace the other person in whatever (someone replacing death after beating them in a game-someone replacing the stair figure after calling for them)

Jon did mention this but might as well say it; very Michael-esque. Somehow I don’t think he’s involved though 💀 I don’t know who is sending the statements to Jon. My first thought is Elias since he actually knows where Jon is and who he is with. Or so he says. Also the comment on like people becoming warped creatures is so true now that I think about it. I don’t want Jon to be a warped creature he’s too boring for that guys

Also Georgie is real. Go get that Hungarian dinner girl

MAG 86: Tucked In

Eughhhh it moves when you look. I hate that even more then when it moves when you DONT look 😭Also Tim has some problems he probably needs to work through. I feel like he knows more than he lets on. Like he did say to Martin that something worse is happening to the institute than it being haunted. Also, love Melanie King 🫶 it’s funny she doesn’t know what Og Sasha looked like since she knows she looks different then Not! Sasha. She just doesn’t know how.

Scary ass episode. I’m wondering if the creature in this and the one in A Fathers Love and Exceptional Risk are like…cousins or something because the one in this left behind “a small patch of foul smelling water” and in the other ones, brackish water would come out taps when I think it’s like close I think? Bit a stretch but maybe they belong under the same entity. Like darkness I dunno

Okay that’s everything! So far season 3 is super good. I love hearing the stuff outside the statements, it’s super interesting and I’m excited to see what happens next

[toneelspeelster]

ethics of motherhood: the jane / charlie spring essay

ever since the release of the second season of heartstopper i've seen so many different opinions on jane spring as a parent; she's the absolute devil, overbearing, completely against understanding charlie and his relationship with nick etc. etc. but i would like to delve into why i think the way alice set up jane spring in s2 is a /great/ gateway into a deeper, nuanced storyline between jane and charlie because, quite honestly - it's clearly long overdue. once again, i'd like to use backstory from the comics to infer what might be happening to jane in the series and how, maybe a bit surprisingly to some - charlie is in some respects a lot more like her than you might think.

please note: this is not an apology, or an excuse to jane's behaviour as a mother to charlie; i just want to give her actions a context and i think, show the room for growth which I think would be a beautiful, very nuanced, storyline between parent and child to take on in charlie's mental health story in s3/4.

(tw for parental abuse, discussion of eating disorder)

one thing that really informs jane spring as a character and as a mother in general is her own mother. we see in the comics that her mother is a. physically abusive and b. does not allow jane to have any criticism against her and uses that as a reason for the abuse.

jane later tells charlie the following on her relationship with her mother, acknowledging the effect that her mother had on her - to an extent. she softens the things that happened to her.

jane knows this of her being a mother: she's overbearing, her mother was too, and she was also hoping to be very different to what her mother was to her.

now what i think is a vital thing to consider is the following: jane grew up in a household where she was physically and emotionally unsafe. she was hit for expressing normal teenage behaviour. it should be okay to sometimes not agree with your parents and pushing back at them. they should provide you with a safe method of communication for doing so but they never taught jane that. as a result, i think it's a very human response of people to try and make sure they deal with things differently when they get older; but that also can result in overcompensating behaviour.

my feeling is that jane is overly focused, i think unconsciously, on keeping in particular charlie safe, and in that sometimes loses sight on making him feel actually (emotionally) safe. because safe means to jane: performing well in school, not doing anything that might be dangerous, but also: keep in line with expected social behaviour. what is the safest thing, jane thinks? that your behaviour is perfect. because if you don't give others any reason to think you're being out of order (in whatever way), you will not get abuse. safe is being perfect, doing everything perfectly. you can and should control your life in such a way that it will be possible for things to be perfect.

and guess who feels that way too?

kids learn a lot more from their parents than they would think (or even like).

one of the most interesting changes from novel to tv series i think, is the change of having jane not being immediately supportive of nick from the get go; as it fits in quite well with jane's character trait of being focused on charlie's safety (and by extension julio's character, but he goes about this differently and quite honestly... can be quite of a wet wipe lol) and exercising control over his behaviour to make him safe in her own eyes. she wants him to be socially presentable ("please change out of your pyjamas to meet guests"), to focus on school work, and for him to listen to her when she says he needs to come home; in a sense i think she wants to be aware of where charlie is at a given time and not too stay out too late, because the night? that might be dangerous.

we have to remember that charlie was severely bullied only a year ago, and julio's constant reminders of charlie in s1 of please calling him when the situation gets out of hand with nick's circle of "friends", indicates to me that his parents were aware of the bullying, maybe being informed by ajayi bc i don't see charlie being able to tell that to his parents himself. so: nick's "sort" (tao mentions his circle as "exactly the sort of people who bullied [charlie]") are in jane's eyes boys to be weary of.

so when charlie tells his parents, jane doesn't totally trust it.

this is worsened when it turns out nick is also going on the paris trip. for charlie, that's not the only reason to on the trip at all, but the way the conversation goes with julio's comment that's the reason why he wants to go, this is where nick gets associated in her mind with charlie as something that she needs to be aware of and perhaps even intervene. to make sure he's safe. she needs to control the situation if it goes wrong.

which she does. almost immediately. when charlie shows behaviour out of the ordinary for him and the only cause she sees is nick; he's the new factor in all of this.

it's like she thinks if she doesn't completely nip this behaviour in the bud in a very hard way, all the bad things imaginable will come immediately. like charlie would flunk school within a few weeks. charlie, who's been a high achiever! julio's response is actually quite appropriate, i personally think: it's not a wonder that you're unfocused bc you have been spending time a lot (which we've seen! on screen!) but also i don't want ban you from seeing him completely, just set some boundaries.

interestingly enough, this is also due to charlie overly focusing his efforts on keeping nick essentially perfectly safe in his coming out as well; unfortunately, in that final scene shown above, he's just realised that he's got no control over nick's coming outs being perfect, as david has shown to be very biphobic and dismissive of nick in a way that neither nick or charlie had any say in or could even prevent from happening. jane has the option of trying to control things because she's his mother and has some authority over his life.

jane disappears in the show after this issue of charlie handing in his course work gets resolved for a while, so it does seem like she very much keeps to her word afterwards.

she comes back in time for some growth. tori rightly mentions that the family dinner is not something that their mum would totally enjoy bc tori has seen the criticism jane has regarding nick. but charlie does know nick, feels emotionally safe with him, especially after their convo in the louvre and nick being open about his dad, so charlie is right in saying nick, as a person not the idea that jane has of him by association, might convince her.

and he does.

nick can be trusted; nick has come out to his neglectful parent, chastised his older brother for being an asshole, mentions he feels happy with his life with charlie and living openly as his boyfriend and apologises to his mother for ruining the dinner (a sign of a well mannered boy!). and when sarah tells jane that this is something that she's never seen nick do and that must be of nick's deep care for charlie, jane thinks..

and comes around (a bit).

unfortunately, her overt focus on charlie's grades slipping being due to nick's influence in his life completely makes her neglect the signs that charlie is not eating well (that's something that is building up so gradually that i don't think she sees it as an option). there are some great metas on here by @ finnicksannie regarding this being one of the biggest reasons why charlie's grades are actually slipping.

all in all, i just want to close by saying this is a deeply traumatised mother parenting a deeply traumatised son and they both need time and therapy for a better understanding of the communication between them.

and i think the end of season 2 sets up a nice storyline about that quite nicely. jane accepts nick in their circle, but her communication with charlie has not been resolved; it's just a little tick towards her needing to trust charlie more. he's got good instincts. she's starting to realise.

this is all not an excuse. it's a set up for a responsibility on jane's part to work to communicate with charlie better. but life is life. and we're humans. sometimes we need to learn to grow.

and in the mean time, in the small moments, maybe with what you would say is the bare minimum, with not agreeing with charlie's self deprecation, jane does show her love of her son.

i don't think it's without reason that this was shown.

--

i have not read the novel solitaire / nick & charlie / this winter. feel free to add in comments if there's something in there too! but i do feel the series might incorporate jane's storyline maybe a little bit differently than from in the books; but it sounds like her controlling behaviour is a throughline to it all.

[kibblemode]

ok so basicalyyyy

(included voiceclaims too bc its fun)

S1 involves crypt (vc david bowie) and ophelia (vc undecided atm) - ophelias arc is really quick bc i need s1 to focus more on the main villains i think. anyway the protags get lost in the woods for some reason and ophelia offers to lead them back to town but actually shes luring them deeper into the forest to her cabin so she can murder them and feed them to crypt. crypt Was her pet when she 1st found them after her parents died, but as they both grew up it turns out theyre actually fully intelligent. they make her kill people to keep them fed along with verbally and mentally abusing her and sometimes they get physically abusive too, and they often threaten to kill her if she doesnt feed them. obviously living with this for years affects her sanity, she ends up enjoying mutilating ppl as a kind of way to survive and eventually becomes more of a sadist. so anyway its obvious from the moment the protags meet her that Somethings not right just based on how erratically she acts, and they kinda sus her out pretty quick. she panics and attacks them but fails to kill them, which crypt is angry about and forces her off to the side to kill them themself. crypt dies obviously, idk how yet, maybe lenarr does it with his powers idfk. obviously ophelia is Devastated, but also relieved secretly. it takes her awhile to get over crypts death but after she does she thanks the protags and fucks off to live in her cabin peacefully lol

S2 involves noodle (vc dana snyder) and grem (vc 2mello), who is actually one of the main villains but hes important here i prommy - SO THIS ONES A BIGGER ONE bc i have room to do so now that the plot and characters are mostly Established. so a bit of backstory required on this one since noodle is a pre-established side character. noodle has been working at the royal familys castle since he was around 15, a lot like most of the other castle staff. unfortunately hes the one whos given the most odd/shitty jobs just by sheer coincidence, but hes convinced its because tix hates him for some reason. this isnt exactly helped by tixs spoiled rich kid personality he had when he was younger and just his general shittiness as a person (intentional or otherwise), and also indie (being tixs advisor and technically noodles 2nd boss despite being younger than him) is naturally bossy and blunt which made it worse too. so noodle is Already fed up with tix constantly antagonizing him (indie he doesnt actually care about as much because hes close friends with her boyfriend), that combined with how absolutely Nothing his personal life is, he just kinda Has it one day and decides hes going to do something awful to tix. so for context, grem is tixs ex, noodle knows he exists but doesnt actually Know him. he steals tixs old demonomicon from when they were still together and summons grem using his own blood. grem would Never miss an opportunity to torment tix at this point in the show bc he Also hates him. grem offers noodle a contract and he accepts without reading too much into it. grem basically implants a living embodiment of pure demon magic into noodles open wound (thats how he gets his snake tattoo btw) and it gives him magical powers Permanently. since noodle is my boyfailure hes very bad at using them but eventually Does get the hang of it, and plans to destroy tixs home and anyone that tries to stop him from doing so. NOW. ANOTHER bit of context. noodle was tixs go to babysitter for tiabi (tixs daughter) and noodle genuinely likes and cares for her very much. that being said, tiabi basically has to console this grown ass man whos having a major power trip rn bc shes the only one he wouldnt Ever harm in any way. this is undecided but im thinking maybe grem gets frustrated and maybe posesses noodle or something similar. hence noodles redemption episode being titled "exorcism" but idrk

S3 involves eugene (vc weird al) - so after the events of s2 i figured itd be good to have a silly, only semi-serious villain lol. this one was fairly recently given a MAJORRRR revision, eugene is my bffs (@/killer12345blog) oc that he made as a joke but i got attached to him lol. anyway eugene is a master shapeshifter that takes on a bastardization of tixs form to frame him for a wide variety of terrible crimes in ordsr to ruin his reputation. the reason he does this is to get tix out of the pucture so he can replace him and take over his life. he was successful in "replacing" other ppl in the past so this time he goes for tix, who is technically a very important political figure (hes a prince). while most of eugenes more sinister stuff goes on behind the scenes without it being revealed that he was the one doing it the Whole time, he pretends to be an ally to the main protags, hes actually naturally charming and his personality makes him very likeable. what hes ACTUALLY doing is cozying up to tixs friends to try to make them prefer him while furthing the evidence that tix is responsible for all eugenes crimes he did. its actually presented in a way that makes the person watching Also suspect tix. so eventually zach and lenarr realize theres some differences in how eugenetix acts vs how tix Actually acts, and start to believe it wasnt actually tix doing it. eugene gets mad as hell and goes mask off villain mode when lenarr and zach dont choose him over tix, and by that point its obvious what eugene was doing the entire time. so he attacks the protags, and since hes using tixs species as a base for the forms hes taking atm that means they cant kill him as easily bc he would only be killed by the same things that can hurt tix. This part i havent Fully gotten to just yet but they do come up with a convoluted home alone ass plan to lure eugene into a trap and kill him to DEATH (me and art agreed. even tho eugene actually dies for real im still using him as a bg character bc itd be funny)

S4 involves moff (vc uhhh. idk. who tf voices spinel from su) SO THIS ONES GONNA BE SHORT. its underdeveloped and s4 has a Lot of important shit happening w the main characters so itll be hard to fit in. a lot like s1 lol. anyway moff is an aspiring writer and is heavily invested in fandom culture and stuff lol. hes unhappy with how the writing of the show is done and wants to change it (dumb as fuck 4th wall break i know but who gaf) obviously this freaks the other characters the fuck out and they think hes crazy. BUT moff is the proud owner of a magic journal or something that he can write something in and it happens. this ones more lighthearted too, he doesnt do anything toooo awful with it its just weird and the other characters hate it so they try to stop him. this is very very hard bc of moffs journal, but they Are successful and his journal gets set on fire to get rid of it forever lol

[5five5five5five5five5five]

Fuck it, i'm going to ramble about this man.

Dustin Graves was a commission assassin who was in the same training classes as five and had a few missions with him over the 5 years. not many but enough to fall head over heels with that grumpy old fart who had no care for him and saw him as an annoyance.(though Delores seemed pretty into him...wonder why.) five and him spend weeks to months together on missions but not often. both skilled in there own right and not needing the extra hands most times. witch made working together even more special. how Dustin was the legendary assassin five hargreeves's main partner was beyond him, he didn't seem all that impressive and the missions were rarely anything grand.

he got out of the commission when the handler went crazy, skipping out on the Kugelblitz and winding up in the 80's for 2 years. then when he wanted to move forward in time again, the suitcase fucked its shit and sent him to the new timeline where everyone was (i the comic can just add shit with no explanation, so can i). he meets up with five again at viktor's bar, now physically 25/mentally 70. 8 years since the shit of s3 and season 4 isn't real (it cant hurt me)

Dustin cant understand a word of whatever five tried to explain about the new timeline, his body and how the world ended.....THE COMMISSION FREEZED OVER???? five finds it so idiotic that he missed out on a LOT and jumped ship so early....witch in hindsight, actually wasn't the dumbest thing.

Dustin is a man-failure though and though. he either rolls nat 20s or nat 1s with little in-between. its a skilled assassin, skilled enough to be teamed up with five, who is known around the commission as a legend. so he is skilled......he's just also a DOOFUS. forever mid life crisis rested development who is trying his best. loves rock an roll and is a good singer. Lila and him probably get along.

she probs also remembers a story around the commission like "YOUR THE GUY WHO GOT HIS TIE STUCK IN DELIVERY TUBE" or something super embaressing that made him known as the local fuck up assassin. he tries to laugh that stuff off but he admittedly hates being known as the unlucky assassin or whatever.

his backstory is still a mystery ......aka i just haven't made anything for it. i like to think hes very secretive and haven't told me. for someone whose met my family and loooves hearing about me, hes not much of a talker about himself. witch adds depths. hes not just some cocky dick. sorry sorry this was about my oc, not me going into five mode to...totally not be fawning. nope.

look at his kin wheel. look at all the doofuses. hes a silly man who falls on his face and the five in me some how finds it endearing enough to classify this man as a comfort human. not boyfriend. emotional support man. the guy who follows me around. my friend who i kiss sometimes.

[jess-the-vampire]

Wanna add more insight as to why people are as bothered by not revealing the wittebane story more from a fan perspective, i’ve already talked about why it bothers people in regards to belos’s character, but here’s partially why i think fans feel the sense of lacking they do:

I think what especially bothers people about not getting the complete answers on the caleb/evelyn/philip story is compared to other stories within the series, this one not being explained is a big outlier, because the show is actually decent at setting up stuff that they’ll answer afterwards.

Hollow Mind works as well as it does because all of the reveals in it are stuff you could of figured out beforehand due to all the clues being thrown around, there are hints to the grimwalkers, to caleb and evelyn, to flapjack being caleb’s, it rewards the viewers for paying attention to the stuff they were showing us.

Like “Here’s an open grimwalker page” and “Here’s the statues, doesn’t the faces on them look familiar?”

But then they still dangle some key elements, leaving some for later after hollow mind. No full answers to the door, what exactly happened between caleb and philip during the fight, ect ect

Which is fine, because you expect answers later.

And this continues with a lot of the other mysteries too, collector’s backstory gets foreshadowing before it’s reveal, lilith cursing eda has foreshadowing before it’s reveal, even manny having passed away is something you might pick up on before we’re told.

The show is actively showing you evidence and then rewarding you for paying attention by giving answers to the setups without many loose threads.

the show loves to show you the audience “Hey look at this thing, this will be important later”, and then have to come back with the answers it promised.

Though the show was cut, so not everything it wanted to resolve was, the story of evelyn, caleb and philip kept going post cut and kept ramping up, most of s2b involves caleb hints in every single episode.

And when you are making him sound important and then then continuing to make him and evelyn both relevant in s3, the audience is waiting for the promised reward for putting all the pieces together, and then...nothing happens.

the show asks you to pay attention to the door eda finds with a scratch on it, to the tale of the brothers, to the ghost of caleb, to flapjack knowing caleb and knowing about the blood, and there’s no answers to most of it.

You can’t even say most of the stuff missing were small either, like we don’t need the holes in collector’s story answered too much, but there’s almost too much in the wittebane story to really breeze over.

When jacob shows you a picture of a burning building and says “Tragedy struck” before explaining the brothers were lost, you think “Oh, i can't wait to understand what this means”....and to this day we don’t have any idea what that tragedy was.

Why was evelyn on earth? no clue. Was caleb even planning to see philip again? no idea. Why didn’t the door work for luz who used philip’s notes correctly and completely? who knows.

Like there are things brought up, that not even small details in the show can answer,

There could be something really neat about having this whole story in the bg that fans figure out mind you, the problem is there’s too many large gaps that can’t really be filled in by what we get.

So while you can pick up on a lot and put a lot together from what we get, there’s still not enough, heck, people who have looked into this lore still have very different ideas on a lot of stuff because the gaps are so wide.

And while the show was cut, it also put most of this out there, after the cut, we know this because the cut happened during ER and collector was added post cut, so KKKOHD was a point where we can confirm everything was being written with the cut in mind.

So a lot of this stuff about the wittebanes being implied, was written to fans to notice and draw their attention to, while not planning to fully answer it seems.

The ghost haunting the narrative is a neat idea, but it feels less like ghosts and more like half finished set ups.

I think manny works better as a ghost in the narrative because there’s no gaps with him, you get everything you need to understand what he means to the characters and story and there’s no lingering mysteries about him, At best you can just pick out stuff about him from the bg which are more like bonus stuff then anything. There’s no expectations that we’ll meet him or see him, or that we need more then we get.

They set him him up, and they pay him off in the story, we get what we need and we don’t need more.

While with evelyn and caleb, while they do haunt the story and everything ties back to them, not only does the show leave so much about them in the dark that the only reason people figure this out is through theories and going online for the information, but even the show won’t acknowledge how important they are to the main story, they’re almost treated as if their story doesn’t matter to the main one even tho the main story wouldn’t have happened without theirs.

When philip’s reasons for his actions are explained, we aren’t even told caleb had anything to do with it, or even evelyn for that matter. You almost don’t even need caleb or evelyn in the story at all for most of the plot to happen given the show ends almost acting like they meant nothing in regards to what happens.

it’s even more unusual because the main characters never mention them either, gus knows the story more because he saw philip’s memories but he never mentions anything about what he saw outside of the grimwalker thing.

You would kinda think seeing the memories would imply gus could tell hunter who caleb was, which given hunter was worried about that would kinda be important, but it never comes up.

The kids are told about caleb, told about evelyn, but they never talk about it or bring it up. Hunter sees his own palisman be recognized by philip, that it was aware of the rebus, which he finds out later was caleb and evelyn’s, but again....has nothing much to say about his own ortet knowing flap at all.

it is as if the show is going out of it’s way to have the main cast ignore them, even tho there’s no reason why they should, especially not hunter or gus.

again, there is a lot to wrap up, and tbh even i doubted they would explain everything about this, but given they gave it the time they did, even despite the cut, it’s more baffling the show ended almost making it out to be irrelevant.

even if they couldn’t explain everything, we still needed something 

because as is, it almost feels like a waste of time to even focus on that story at all.

and even if we do get a spinoff for this, this was written with the idea the show would not get one, so it ended expecting what we were given to be good enough for fans.

And for some, it was.

But in a show where it went out of it’s way to set up a lot of stuff it paid off, to keep setting up stuff for this particular plot and leave with very little actually answered is something people are gonna find frustrating.

They clearly wanted people to care, to want answers, and then didn’t even give them anything and then kinda told them it wasn’t even relevant to the main story or to the cast at all.

it sorta leaves people wondering why they were told to be invested in the first place.

[generalluxun]

different anon but if anyone's closer to the Gary Stu/Mary Su type it's Marinette, cause they keep insisting that she's so special (the time she had on all the miraculouses), the best Ladybug ever (Tikki constantly says this despite the fact that she's lost the miraculouses at least two times), and was ultimately the one that beat Hawkmoth on her own (Gabe stole the miraculouses from her AND got his wish, so she didn't actually win). Not to mention all the people who were crushing on her? Nino, Nathaniel, Luka, Zoe, and however many others? Adrien was over there in his white prison room talking about how HE'S not worthy of MARINETTE'S love? Yeah no...

Okay, we need some definitions. For myself I absolutely love what OSP has for this. *Note* I will use the term Mary Sue so I'm not constantly typing both out, but I honestly consider it gender neutral. You can have a Male(or ace, or whichever) Mary Sue, it's a lot easier than bothering with 'Gary Stu'

With this framework we find that people are often talking cross definitions. Some people latch onto the G1 definition of Mary Sue as someone who is 'perfect' and the fact that Thomas/Marinette(Don't hate on Marinette here, Thomas's words in her mouth) declare Adrien is 'perfect', but those aren't the same definitions.

G1 Mary Sue perfect is 'without flaws' Can do everything better and at range, everyone loves them instantly, etc etc.

Thomas means 'a thing to be kept and admired' like a perfect diamond. It's quite clear Adrien has flaws in the series. It would take a heavy level of self-delusion to miss them. I *like* Adrien, I write for him a lot! But yeah, look at Lies, he treated Adrien like garbage and the narrative punished him for it, pretty bog standard.

Now Marinette- She's an interesting case. She didn't START out a G1 Mary Sue, but she has always been a *type* of Mary Sue. You see after the initial blowback to G1 Mary Sues writers began to throw flaws onto their characters to try and dodge the label. Yet, a lot of the FUNCTION of a Mary Sue remained. So a new definition was formed. This one relies simply on the narrative warping power that a Mary Sue possesses. They are the only *real* person in a world of extras. They have flaws, but those flaws are simply backstory or window dressing.

Marinette's Clumsiness is a prime example of this. She's Clumsy! Except... never when it matters. Imagine how much more of a dynamic we would have if she were *actually* clumsy. She's the thinker/leader who is still functional in a fight, but when it comes down to anything precise, she needs her Olympic-Level trained Partner.

When bad things happen to a Mary Sue, it's only for sympathy points, and they come out on top. S3 She had to be the Guardian- And then we get a series of things that were only solvable because she was the guardian. Her ability to make charms is literally 'Just believe you can' Su-Han shows up and she mocks him. etc etc. Gabriel beats her in S5! -and his wish gives her everything she wants. She is tormented in Derision! -And all it does is make Adrien even more on her side, she's already won and they used her 'trauma' for comedy for 4 seasons.

The biggest thing though is how almost nothing ever progresses without Marinette's attention(a little changes in S5, but that's just because Felix is even MORE of a Mary Sue when he shows up, his localized Sueness defeats her general Sueness) Even when you have a protagonist centered story, most narratives will have a world that lives and breathes and side characters with lives outside the main. The world they live in feels alive. With a Mary Sue(and ML) the world stops completely and almost ceases to exist if the Sue is not present to influence things.

Now I'm gonna blow your mind- A Mary Sue isn't always bad! You *can* write a strong narrative around a Mary Sue- as long as you recognize it.

Marinette is a fun character!

If the show ran with 'Marinette is amazing and multi talented and a paragon, capable in every situation' then you know, that works! Your hero can be blessed! People loved *Superman* to pieces for decades while he was basically invincible. Doc Savage was a thing in the Pulp Era.

The problem is they want to try and run this 'normal girl! oh so clumsy. Oh put upon, pity her, poor girl.' Line, and yet... she just wins, and wins, and always wins, and never stops winning. She is always considered morally by the end of every episode. She wins without even trying (her victory vs Lila was handed to her. She got her power upgrades basically out of the blue each time) So these two disparate things don't click. They create cognitive dissonance that aware viewers pick up on, and it makes things far less satisfying.

I just want to reiterate though. A Mary Sue is not who Marinette is, it is how the narrative *handles* her. Don't hate on Marinette. Wish she was in a better executed story.