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whimsicalhorss · 4 months ago

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The Recent Nevermore Drama.

Red, I think it's quite sad that you decided to delete all the original comments going against you and reexplaining what went down within your 'apology', which was 95% calling out rather than talking about the cause of the whole uprising. Nonetheless, here was my original reply, just so everybody who stumbles across this post can see the reply from somebody who's viewed it from both sides. The original message was, as follows:

'Hey Red,

I hope you're managing amidst everything that's been going on. I know you've been through a lot recently, and I hate to add to the messages you've been receiving. However, there are some things that I really need to talk to you about.

Over the past few days — even years — I've noticed some things that really concern me. It feels like there's been a lot of blame unfairly placed on certain individuals within your community, which is incredibly damaging, especially when it unfairly paints others in a negative light. I understand you've been trying to address the situation with Crimson, but the approach taken hasn't been effective and has caused more harm than good.

In terms of the Crimson drama, I think it could have been handled more sensibly. Consulting with Laci and others involved would have been beneficial before making the decision to introduce Crimson back to the server. When you were writing your explanation, which I know was rushed, you should have stepped back and consulted for longer - I know you felt pressured, but.. you needed to give yourself time to handle it.

With the screenshots, too - they were only censored to the point of concealing most of the users involved to keep the MINORS safely out of the evidence, and yet you continued to banter on about how they were censored and unable to interpret what happened. As well, you tampered with evidence when you sent a screenshot, CUTTING OUT the part where Laci mentioned they could give you the evidence uncensored if you asked, yet you continued to complain.

On the topic of minors, you name dropped SEVERAL in your apology. Do you know how endangering or scary that can be? It's insane that you felt the need to name anybody involved to get people off your back.

There's also Sardonyx - I don't know if you'll share this with your patreons but, if you do, hello Sardonyx. They casually aggravate people, make NSFW conversation in YOUR SFW server, and you still allow them to pursue in such a way. They continued to temper people after the initial Crimson argument and started their own, which could have been avoided if you had muted both persons involved (rather than banning everybody against Sardonyx) and asked for them to calm down and explain their conflict in dms.

Also the Bunnybel issue - I know the topic was discussed by people banned, but there's also the factor that neither you, nor your mods stepped in to stop it. Matter of fact, you contributed to it, and everybody went along with it as a fun easter event of drawing your two main protagonists in these outfits that, when looked at closer, actually have a much more terrible implication. You should have handled this earlier, rather than blaming it on somebody and ranting about how it's all their fault and they're in the wrong.

Again with Laci, too - you outright blaming her for everything that has occurred is terrible. Whilst that may be what you see in this whole confrontation, in truth, it really isn't anything like that, Red. Saying that everybody else involved were her 'lackeys' and 'twisted around her finger' was an incompetent, foolish way of pinning all these hardships on her. Some people involved, including me, had barely spoken to Laci prior, because a lot of people cared about the fact that YOU had unbanned a potentially alleged pedophile back into your server full of minors. I know it doesn't seem like everybody cared, but we all did, otherwise we wouldn't have started this whole 'riot' thing or whatever to go against it. I surely cared, considering I have been at the face of two pedophiles sending me unsettling, inappropriate images, and I know that it is hard to reach out to somebody or stop them when they shrug it off so nonchalantly.

Lastly, I think it's hypocritical you spoke about how certain groups were stalker-ish and stealing messages from a patreon chat, despite you taking a chat from private servers and dms. The behaviour is equal, is it not? You used your influence to alter certain texts and take them out of context, and the other groups simply took what you said and proved that you, and unpunished, favourited people who have been held dearly, have done terrible things yourself.

I understand that this whole thing has been overwhelming for you, Red, but I believe that there was a real need for you to approach each situation differently, and not to compile everything into an 'apology' that is 5% apology, and 95% calling out people and altering the blame to be put on them. I think that the tactics you used were poor, and I hope that you do figure out something better in the future.

Take care, and I'm here if you'd like to discuss this any further.

Best regards,

A bystander.' And the second reply I made, aimed at one of her patreons (or moderators? who knows.) who put a whole lot of shit behind a paywall and then continued to support her. Aha, Debobble, if it wasn't illegal, I'd show the whole world you trying to make a fake screenshot of Laci 'configurating her hate schemes', and how terribly it was done. 'Hello!

I hope you're having a joyous, maybe even 'whimsical' day!

A lot of things that have occurred recently are the fault of both 'sides' (if we can call them that. Not 'Laci's lackeys' or 'Clique 1 and 2'.) and I think I should refer to the way that this has been dealt with again.

Yes, the server was owned by somebody different who was capable of banning Crimson, and it was intended for less SFW purposes, but I think Crimson went outright too far in a predatory way. They put a teenage oc with an adult oc, which is pedophilic behaviour, and sent several overly NSFW images. I assume that this chat was intended for 'implied sexual circumstances', rather than overly perverse, but I could be wrong. I agree in the fact that something should have been done, and I approve of Laci's initial reaching out, but I don't approve of the way Red banned them for as little as they did.

As I like to say; 4 months, 4 minors. You afforded Crimson a month for each minor they influenced in such a predatory way, and I think the time should have been extended.

Might I also add, these screenshots were not 'heavily' censored. They were censored for the safety of the minors and other persons involved and, yet.. Red seems to be content with name dropping every minor who was involved. So much for the safety of her members!

AND I have more to add, which I trust you to hand over to Red for me since you seem content to do that quite often for her - do you mind reminding her and the entire patreon and mod chat that Crimson (and Red, I'm pretty sure) knew the age of one 12 year old, who we might call 'Green'. They continued to share NSFW things to them, including making jokes about what I assume was a 'vibrator in public'. How SFW for a child! Crimson is VERY innocent.

I agree that all of this has gotten out of hand, but both responses, from Red, the moderation team, and the patreon chat against the groups banned for involving themselves, but I wouldn't consider it a mob. Both sides had good intentions, it's just the way Red has gone about it - framing others for her mistakes and outright dismissing people for being concerned about the safety, that has made this come to such a volatile level.

And the whole, breaking several TOS, and a law? If thats what we're doing, what are you doing? Leaking private messages, encouraging predatory behaviour, endangering minors, leaking names which could result in a witch hunt from Red's expanse following? Oh dear..

How volatile.

Best regards,

A bystander.' Red, every little detail you have undergone is such a negative, unredeemable smidge to this massive whiteboard of what you could do. Instead of handling this like the adult, you undertake criticism harshly, which is detrimental considering you are somebody who has been writing for years, which means that you should have matured and adapted to take this kinds of things. You could have taken a month, maybe two, maybe three, to explain the whole Crimson thing - it would have been much less detrimental to yourself, and your community. You absolutely wrecked every second, third, fourth, fifth chance people were tempted to give you with every detail that went in to making sure that YOU felt like you had to be right - name dropping, which could lead to witch hunting with your massive following, especially since the people were minors and specifically requested you keep their names out of it. You allowed an alleged, potential predator back into your server without consulting it with victims - and don't get me started on the whole 'Crimson didn't know!', they knew at least one of them, and still continued. You pinned the blame on Laci, on another person (who has asked me not to say their name and, like the respectful person I am, will not be namedropping. That doesn't seem like a familiar concept to you, does it?) and you keep all these little dirty secrets behind a paywall. Red, in the most respectfully disrespectful way, grow up and learn to be better. You spout all this bull, every little detail and, when it backfires, you cower into a corner, guilt trip, manipulate, and eventually resort to the potential physical or mental harm of other people. It needs to stop. The icing on the cake, to all of this? YOU, as the 'mature adult that would never stand for pedophilic behaviour, that loves their audience, that has a server full of minors', that YOU would delete messages explaining the situation in a different point of view. You don't want your vast following to see these and think, 'huh, maybe Red isn't as good as I thought they were?', well they aren't. I don't know if people will see this but, sincerely, I hope Red, Flynn, DeBobble, the patreons, the moderators, and all of the discord and general following of Nevermore and RnF know that what Red spouts isn't necessarily all true.

Kind regards, A bystander.

#RnF #Red #Flynn #Nevermore #nevermore webtoon #nevermore webcomic #webtoon #drama #nevermore drama #red and flynn #red is wrong #there is a different point of view #don't cower behind your online following and paywall #nevermorewebtoon

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thefriendoforatioisdead · 21 days ago

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I truly admire how much Pin has been fighting back the rule of her aunt. She's a very obedient person, so her rebellion is not as firery as Anin's, but I found the scene of her bowing down to beg her aunt extremely powerful. I felt it very strongly. Even if it's not anger, or bold, upfront resistance, it's not passive or weak either. She IS standing up for their relationship, by showing the extent of her devotion not to her aunt but to Anin and their love. She is showing what she's ready to do. I am honestly not familiar with the weight of such a deep bow culturally, but I would assume that it means A LOT since we've never seen any character of this social status doing it before in the show (except her aunt when she met her sadly dead girlfriend, but it was to indicate subordination since she was going to work for her. And frankly, the parallel is parallelling). This moment of confrontation between them might be my favorite of the episode frankly, except Anin's declaration at the end OF COURSE

Pin resisted as much as she could in all the ways she could, and I'm not blaming her for breaking in the next episode and accepting the mariage. She does respect and love her aunt, and she is also very aware of her social status. She will do her duty because she's been raised to know her place and I would never blame her for that. It's just heartbreaking and unfair, but it's also very understandable.

#Bowing as a form of rebellion and strength...Interesting #In a completely different cultural context and situation to the point where I don't know why my brain made the connection #it reminded me of Legend of Yunze season two when Zhaoyun bows in ''thankfulness'' to her teacher as she denounces all of his hypocrisy #I think I thought about it because both times it was a powerful act of resistance against a parental figure #And it was a huge slay #but anyway that's just how I perceived it with a western point of view so maybe don't listen to me #Although even if I think bowing in China and Thailand is probably very different #I would guess that in every culture bowing down on your knees with your head almost on the ground is pretty deep and sincere #You should watch legend of yunze by the way #the loyal pin #anin #pin #anin x pin #aninpin #the loyal pin ep 12

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