#theory 15

[istumpysk]

OPERATION ICEBERG: THE TIER LIST

THEORY:

Theon's bastard

TIER:

People's Choice! I'm going to need a little more consensus on this one.

Under Consideration: These theories haven't garnered strong or extensive evidence, but they're worthy of discussion.

vs.

50/50: These theories are complete toss-ups.

vs.

Low Probability: While not impossible, these theories are unlikely based on the current evidence.

[Tier list overview]

EVIDENCE:

Another theory involving Theon having a secret child?

You bet!

What's the theory?

Theon impregnated the daughter of the captain of the Myraham.

Proof?

The Myraham is a trading cog from Oldtown captained by a large man.

At the beginning of A Clash of Kings, Theon Greyjoy hires the Myraham to transport him from Seagard to Lordsport to meet with his father, Balon Greyjoy.

The Myraham was a fat-bellied southron merchanter up from Oldtown, carrying wine and cloth and seed to trade for iron ore. Her captain was a fat-bellied southron merchanter as well, and the stony sea that foamed at the feet of the castle made his plump lips quiver, so he stayed well out, farther than Theon would have liked. An ironborn captain in a longship would have taken them along the cliffs and under the high bridge that spanned the gap between the gatehouse and the Great Keep, but this plump Oldtowner had neither the craft, the crew, nor the courage to attempt such a thing. - Theon I, ACOK

The journey took longer than Theon anticipated, giving him extra time for other activities.

A longship would have made the crossing in half the time as well. The Myraham was a wallowing tub, if truth be told, and he would not care to be aboard her in a storm. - Theon I, ACOK

What other activities, you might wonder? Taking the captain's daughter to bed.

Still, Theon could not be too unhappy. He was here, undrowned, and the voyage had offered certain other amusements. He put an arm around the captain's daughter. "Summon me when we make Lordsport," he told her father. "We'll be below, in my cabin." He led the girl away aft, while her father watched them go in sullen silence. - Theon I, ACOK

x

The cabin was the captain's, in truth, but it had been turned over to Theon's use when they sailed from Seagard. The captain's daughter had not been turned over to his use, but she had come to his bed willingly enough all the same. A cup of wine, a few whispers, and there she was. - Theon I, ACOK

We don't know much about the captain's daughter, but we do know she was an older maiden.

Late teens, perhaps? Early twenties? Not sure.

The girl was a shade plump for his taste, with skin as splotchy as oatmeal, but her breasts filled his hands nicely and she had been a maiden the first time he took her. That was surprising at her age, but Theon found it diverting. - Theon I, ACOK

The captain's daughter becomes enamored with Theon and wishes to accompany him ashore as his salt wife, but Theon isn't interested.

"I'd work in your castle, milord. I can clean fish and bake bread and churn butter. Father says my peppercrab stew is the best he's ever tasted. You could find me a place in your kitchens and I could make you peppercrab stew." "Once I might have carried you home as a prize, and kept you to wife whether you willed it or no. The ironmen of old did such things. A man had his rock wife, his true bride, ironborn like himself, but he had his salt wives too, women captured on raids." The girl's eyes grew wide, and not because he had bared her breasts. "I would be your salt wife, milord." "I fear those days are gone." - Theon I, ACOK

The girl begs Theon to take her with him, fearing her father will punish her once he departs.

~Foreshadowing alert~

Theon remains indifferent and suggests that her father should be grateful, as she's probably pregnant, and not everyone has the privilege of raising Reek's a king's bastard.

"My father," she told him. "Once you're gone, he'll punish me, milord. He'll call me names and hit me." Theon swept his cloak off its peg and over his shoulders. "Fathers are like that," he admitted as he pinned the folds with a silver clasp. "Tell him he should be pleased. As many times as I've fucked you, you're likely with child. It's not every man who has the honor of raising a king's bastard." She looked at him stupidly, so he left her there. - Theon I, ACOK

In the following Theon chapter, we learn that Balon is not allowing the Myraham or any other ships to depart the Iron Islands.

Theon quickened his stride as they neared the Myraham, rocking high and empty by the quay. Her captain had tried to sail a fortnight past, but Lord Balon would not permit it. None of the merchantmen that called at Lordsport had been allowed to depart again; his father wanted no word of the hosting to reach the mainland before he was ready to strike. "Milord," a plaintive voice called down from the forecastle of the merchanter. The captain's daughter leaned over the rail, gazing after him. Her father had forbidden her to come ashore, but whenever Theon came to Lordsport he spied her wandering forlornly about the deck. "Milord, a moment," she called after him. "As it please milord . . ." - Theon II, ACOK

Midway through the next book, A Storm of Swords, we learn that the Myraham was detained by Balon for more than six months. Amid the chaos of Balon's death and Euron's return, the captain fled.

Robb waited for Ser Raynald to close the tent flap. "The gods have heard our prayers, my lords. Lord Jason has brought us the captain of the Myraham, a merchanter out of Oldtown. Captain, tell them what you told me." "Aye, Your Grace." He licked his thick lips nervously. "My last port of call afore Seagard, that was Lordsport on Pyke. The ironmen kept me there more'n half a year, they did. King Balon's command. Only, well, the long and the short of it is, he's dead." - Catelyn V, ASOS

And that's the last we hear of the Myraham.

Are you sure?

No.

In A Feast for Crows, after Samwell arrives in Oldtown, he notices a young mother with a baby just a bit older than Mance's boarding a ship.

At the Weeping Dock, he watched two acolytes help an old man into a boat for the short voyage to the Bloody Isle. A young mother climbed in after him, a babe not much older than Gilly's squalling in her arms. - Samwell V, AFFC

To clarify:

The ship is anchored in Oldtown.

The Myraham is a trading cog from Oldtown.

The girl boarding the ship is described as a young mother.

The Myraham's captain's daughter was an older maiden.

Samwell observes that the baby is slightly older than Mance's child, who was born towards the end of A Storm of Swords.

In Catelyn V, ASOS, we learn that the Myraham was detained at the Iron Islands for just over six months.

The timing aligns perfectly.

And that's it.

COUNTER-EVIDENCE:

There's no counter-evidence to consider; it's just a matter of whether you find a single sentence in a Samwell chapter enough to be credible.

I suppose you could argue that it's completely inconsequential.

STUMPY'S THOUGHTS:

I find it a bit odd the author gives us a timeline for the Myraham and the age of the baby in Oldtown.

Clearly, Asha will rule the Iron Islands, Theon will die, and none of this matters. Nonetheless, I lean towards it being a clever little easter egg that George included for shits and giggles.

VOTE:

I welcome discussions. Feel free to reblog, respond, or challenge my perspective—I won't be offended by any of it.

Please note, if "no" is the eventual winner, or if it's competitive, a second poll will be conducted to determine the proper location.

NEXT THEORY:

UnVictarion

[Main menu]

[macabresymphonies]

If by this point you don't believe Celia is the same TMA universe Celia her meeting with Lady Mowbray cemented she is, because that was the most "seasoned Magnus Achives character meets an avatar" interaction we've had in a while:

ask her if you can do something for her just to make sure she scrams

don't give your name when trying to be tricked into saying it

ignore her creepy sniffing and vauge remarks

don't interact needlessly

don't play into her narrative

don't get caught on the stupid pun at the end

Godspeed Celia, you beautiful creature, if anybody is equipped to live till the end it's you.

[lostwords-found]

Oh shit. I just looked up the beer, Doom Bar, that Luke orders for him and Alice at the end of ep 15. Fun fact, turns out it's named for a treacherous sandbar that has wrecked hundreds of ships...

Ships that were sailing into Padstow. Where episode 11 was set.

With the repeated emphasis on food and drink in Protocol, there's no way that one's a coincidence. Luke Dyer--whether or not you know it yet, you are in it, lad. You are in it much, much too deep.

[hawstar]

my contribution to the “something is up with luke dyer and his water association” theory is the fact that he plays the bass. he plays the Bass. fish pun.

[clare-89]

Magnus Protocol Theory: Luke Dyer’s band is sacrificing people

Idk if Luke knows this is happening or not. But “Penny For a Well” and then there’s a drowning victim immediately after their concert?

The episode title “Well Run” could also refer to the band name, as well as Lady M’s line. Their titles usually have double meanings.

Luke mentions his band is “picking up” and he didn’t expect it.

Dredgerman is the name of his other band. Dredging is a type of fishing that can destroy coral.

What does the victim say?

What does this mean? No idea. Also @archivists-plus-one came up with a lot of this

[lunniere]

the hatake teefs are toofin'

[yowlthinks]

The Final 15: Aziraphale's decision matrix in a no-choice situation

I have been thinking and reading about what happened since season 2 came out, and I think I have finally been able to put it all down into a logical sequence. This meta is the result of both countless posts I have read on tumblr and my own thoughts.

But let us start from the beginning, which is essentially Metatron's offer:

Notice how Aziraphale consistently declines the honour, as Metatron keeps pressing. When he says that Aziraphale is the perfect choice he also mentions that Aziraphale "is a leader, is honest and doesn't just tell people what they want to hear", which is of course a lie and they both know it. Initially, Aziraphale can't deny it because he can't just go "well, actually, I have been doing exactly that, stretching the truth in my reports and on a few notable occasions outright lying to my superiors and even God Herself". So he deflects to "where will I get my coffee?", preferring to highlight his attachment to Earth. In response to that Metatron makes his final move: he knows about Aziraphale's partnership with Crowley, and that means he knows about the lies.

This threat to Crowley gets Aziraphale to the following decision matrix:

Telling Crowley about the threat is useless. Aziraphale knows he will suggest running away together, and that puts them both in danger. Similarly, running away alone / hiding Aziraphale will not be a good move either because Metatron will not hesitate to harm Crowley and use him as a bait for Aziraphale.

So this means that Aziraphale's best option is not telling Crowley about the threat and persuading him to come with Aziraphale, his second best being going alone. Both of these offer best safety guarantees for Crowley, and this is something Aziraphale would not compromise on.

So our angel launches into this entire speech about making a difference. These are the only arguments he can come up with on the fly regarding why he took the position (the position he does not want! At a place he does not want to go back to!). And he is terrified that Metatron will come back and he won't be able to finish this conversation, won't be able to persuade Crowley. Add to this the fact that Crowley is clearly trying to have an important conversation with him too. A conversation they would like to have in private, but which Aziraphale knows can be interrupted at any moment. That's why he tries to stop Crowley, that's why he is constantly glancing out of the window.

Aziraphale is angry and frustrated, but this is mostly anger at Metatron who put him into this position, at the unfairness of it all, at himself for not being able to get Crowley to agree. It is the despair that just when Crowley confesses his love, instead of being able to say "I love you" back, he has to swallow it down again. Aziraphale's "I forgive you" is "I forgive you for not trusting me to make the best choice for us both", "I forgive you for not agreeing to go with me, I understand why you declined". And this aligns neatly with the theory about the Nightingale song in the car being a message from Aziraphale: it is his way of saying "I love you, I chose you, I chose our side, and that’s why I had to go".

And you know what? Crowley is a clever noodle and he knows Aziraphale well, so he will figure it out, he will spot this out of character, under-duress-only style of decision-making and start untangling that mystery.

We all know how it ends, and I can't wait to see it!

UPD: to put the above in perspective, see this meta with graphs!

[calmlb]

hc that Dazai made a point of calling Chuuya small when they met because Dazai was used to being the small one.

like, finally there was someone shorter than him. because let’s be real, Dazai was barely taller than Chuuya in Fifteen.

i think people forget how small Dazai was too— not just in height, but also in weight. He was underweight in Dark Era, but in Fifteen & even at present he's barely within the healthy weight range for his height. he was constantly described as a twig in Fifteen, and almost every time he's introduced in the light novels he's called lanky, slender, etc.

[b1adie]

could BLADE be a SPACE WEREWOLF?

think that sounds like dumb bullshit? well come here. listen to me

he has his incredible self-healing ability due to the powers of the abundance. a species called the borisin, blessed by the abundance, have a nearly identical ability.

the divergent universe equation between destruction and abundance is about the borisin. blade is a destruction character, and as mentioned, possessed the ‘gift’ of the abundance.

his sword and the trace materials that are made of borisin fangs, as well as his entire color palette, have great visual similarities. they are also both specifically described with the word “sanguine.”

he is compared to a beast or described as “beastly.”

when blade was a little kid, his home was destroyed by the borisin. because of this, he swore vengeance against them and learned to craft weapons to counter them.

the borisin are also considered to be great craftsmen, creating weaponry and mechs just as he did.

but of course, back then, he didn’t have that healing ability, those “beastly” eyes and tendencies, that innate desire to hunt. something brought it out of him…

jingliu. she killed him over and over until he became inflicted with mara.

jingliu is heavily associated with the moon.

the moon induces “moon rage” in the borisins, which makes them stronger, but tears their bodies apart to do so.

additionally, blade’s mara is triggered strongly by dan heng, AKA imbibitor lunae… which translates to “moon drinker”… so of course, he also has moon motifs.

the borisins gained their immortality and healing when yaoshi split the mountains with red rivers. blade’s ult and follow-up animations feature mountains being cut through with red.

when you consider his craftsmanship, his skill at creating weapons and mechs… this parallel between himself and the borisin has existed since long before he was cursed. yingxing never had a chance.

he has become the very thing he hated most, the thing that destroyed his home, the thing he swore to hunt down for vengeance.

blade is a space werewolf and it is sooo tragic of him.

[novelconcepts]

The more the show progresses, the more I want to see the 90s cast infiltrating the modern timeline. We've gotten hints of it with Shauna and her younger self, her Jackie hauntings. We've gotten a little more with adult Lottie seeing teenage Nat (and Laura Lee), and with Natalie getting teenage Lottie in her final moments. I want more. I want the teen cast to be absolutely invasive on pivotal adult moments, infecting their adult counterparts when least expected. I want Taissa's argument with Van to dissolve into their teenage selves, their bond endless and timeless and inescapable. I want Misty absolutely wrecked by young Natalie lurking around corners, watching from mirrors. I want to see these women unable to navigate adulthood without the specters of their teenage selves cropping up absolutely everywhere, more and more as they let the memories in, as they stop being able to repress the trauma. They didn't grow up. They never could. You are always doomed to regress around your high school teammates. You are haunted by the phantom elements of your misspent youth. It is a comfort, and it is a gift, and it is a trial, and it is a curse. I would love to see that reflected with greater intensity, until the lines blur, until the timelines have no choice but to intersect. They haven't escaped themselves at all. They didn't grow up. They just got older.

[cult-of-the-eye]

tmagp 15 is interesting cause it felt so similar to tma, with a "statement giver" who goes to an organisation for help, who gives a wild amount of context and then falls into an almost dissociative state when explaining the actual horrors. and then also the fact that it felt like the avatar worked in a very tma way, in terms of a meeting of an unusual individual that makes things take a turn for worse. and then lady mowbray meets celia who we suspect is from the tma universe. it can't be a coincidence, maybe the two universes are overlapping, seeping into each other?

[rose-of-the-obsessive-verity]

People don't talk nearly enough about Q in Bungo Stray Dogs. Even with their limited screentime we still got a massive insight into their backstory. Compared to Kyouka, who when we meet, presumably was aready in the PM anywhere from 6 months, to 4 years, making it possible that she joined at 10 years old, her being 14 in the current time.

We've seen how being a part of the Port Mafia affects different people, but no one has been part of the PM for quiet as long as Q, and we don't even get to see what their life was before the PM. But we can assume it nothing good. We know that Q is one year younger then Kyouka, but the diffrence between the two of them being, that Q joined the PM at 6 years old, or prehaps even younger. My theory is that Q was locked up for at least a few years in some sort of 3rd space (similar to Lucy's ability) possibly by Dazai's order.

( Q, age 6 )

Character's like Dazai, Chuuya and Higuchi have a strong distain for Q, which means Q has been locked up for at least 4 years. Q supposed ranpage where they took out Chuuya's subordinates happend when Q was 9. (Q being 13 in the current time)

Compare Q to Yosano Akiko, who was 11 when she joined the army. And because of Mori's tactics and manipulation, earned the nickname of "Angel of Death". We saw in real time how quickly Mori is able to dystroy a person, make them a shadow of themself. How he turned a 11 year old, happy, friendly Yosano, who was ready to help anyone, into a child that was borderline shellshock, a person that was content to rotting in a asylum for the rest of her life. And after 3 years of her being unresponsive, in that said asylum, she still fought the idea of being able to exist as a real person.

The thing that stands out to me the most is that Q has more hatred towards Dazai more then Mori. Because we can safely assume Q was at least partially under Dazai's training, and we know Dazai does not have the most orthodox methods of beating new PM members into shape. The way Mori trusts Q to walk around and take the train on their own, without fearing that they might run away is really telling of how much the loyality to the PM was burnt into Q mind. We can imagine Q does not remember much of anything before the PM. Q has had only one place in this world untill now, and that has been being a killing machine for the PM, no questions asked, we can probably assume Q has no idea that they could leave.

The only autonomy Q has ever had is regarding to their power, but even that being dictated by Mori's orders. Q has no autonomy over anything in their life, if It's regarding if they want to kill people or not, if they want to help do the PM's bidding, or if they are content with being locked in, presumably, self-isolation for over 4 years. Lock up a 9 year old kid for 4 years only with their own thought's and be suprised when they turn out that way.

I've always thought of the parallels between Kyouka and Yosano, the same way both of them were made to hate their powers, Kyouka having to use it to hurt people against her wishes, and Yosano essentially being forced to make the people she looked up to, come to the brink of death, only to send them to die again.

Both Kyouka and Yosano were extreamly ashamed of their powers, becuse it made human life seem so insignificant, Kyouka being able to kill without actually being close to a target. and letting Demon Snow do it for her.

Kyouka and Yosano's abilitys are both not necessarily meant to hurt people, one being healing, and the other protecting it's user, not to mention, Demon Snow is a gift from Kyouka's mother, given in order to protect her.

Now, back to Q, a power, that we don't know that much of, for example, we don't know if the mind control could make someone feel at peace. But that wouldn't matter, because no matter how Q's ability was used, Q's ability can only be activated when somebody hurts them. No matter how much someone tries to use Q's for good, It will always hurt someone, that either being another, or Q themself. Do we really put it past the PM, in all the years Q was in training, to not have tourtured Q untill they got ahold of how their ability worked? The subordinates Chuuya talked about, are we sure that wasn't a cruel training for Q? Where Mori made people hurt Q, those people possibbly being people in the PM?

One is being forced your ability to cause harm, the other is your ability being designed to hurt you, and everyone eles.

If Q was subject to so much pain in their formative years, imagine how desensitized, they are to it. And all of this, the work of Mori, and the rest of the Port Mafia.

When Q was kidnapped by Steinbeck and forced to hurt so many civilians, we saw how people are able to manipulate Q's ability against their will, and who's to say, The PM didin't do that aready?

We saw how Q says that they never chose this ability, and how they didin't understand why all these horrible things happend because of them, asking Steinbeck why this is the case, when everyone is supposed to be equal in the eyes of god. Steinbeck being that god does exist, but that he has no space in his heart for Q.

This makes it pretty apparent that Q has not wanted to hurt all the people that they did, but that they were conditioned to do so, by the PM.

Q hasn't been seen since, but I would really enjoy seeing Yosano and Q interact, becuse they share so many similarities.

I don't think there would be a redemption arc for Q anytime soon, but Q is very dear to me as a character, and I really want them to appear more, the only problem being is, I have a feeling they are once again, locked up.

[vidavalor]

Perfectly Splendid

"Perfectly splendid" is a Mary Poppins allusion from another story that, thematically, is an interesting one for Good Omens to be referencing in The Final 15. That story, plus the ton of other Mary Poppins references in the last two episodes of S2 and how that could help us figure out what's going on, beneath the cut.

The phrase "perfectly splendid" is an allusion to Mary Poppins that comes from Mike Flanagan's The Haunting of Bly Manor. It's a modern-set Gothic horror story that features a nanny arriving to care for two, Jane-and-Michael-Banks-esque kids at an English manor house. Flora, the little girl in the story, is obsessed with her mysterious former nanny. We see quickly in the series that Flora has taken to using her former nanny's catchphrase and so calls everything she likes "perfectly splendid" repeatedly throughout the story, in a way that is both cute and eerie as all fuck, depending on the scene.

The "perfectly splendid" is a take on Mary Poppins' "practically perfect" and the homages to Mary Poppins in The Haunting of Bly Manor are overt, if not quite as much as Scary Poppins is in Good Omens. (It would be hard to top that!) Flora saying "perfectly splendid" is the main quote to come out of the series and a reference in Good Omens to this signature bit of The Haunting of Bly Manor is then also a roundabout reference in Good Omens to Mary Poppins.

The Haunting of Bly Manor is a horror story about possession.

Ya know, that thing that Satan did to Crowley in 1.01...

...and, I would wager, in the bits below of 2.06:

When the character Derek Jacobi is playing first arrives, all five angels fail to identify this being as The Metatron... and all while the only demon in the room-- Crowley-- is very still in the chair and suspiciously (forcibly?) silent until spoken to by the being.

The angels not being familiars of The Devil is, I think, the simplest explanation for why none of them can recognize a face that should be very familiar to them. Upon this person being identified as The Metatron, Michael, Uriel and Saraqael are then so terrified of ticking him off that they fail to recognize that he told them all to go back to Heaven using language from the wrong Julie Andrews movie.

If this is The Metatron below, then why is he saying "spit spot" (and alongside "not another word" as a bonus, as she says that, too)? These are Mary Poppins signature phrases and Mary Poppins is Hell's answer to Heaven and The Sound of Music in Good Omens.

I'm actually pretty sure Crowley & Aziraphale had a hand in writing both, which is why neither Hell nor Heaven seem to actually understand their signature stories but, for now, we know which one is supposed to go with which group and any sign of Mary Poppins is a sign of Hell, ever since the Warlock era... which parallels the last two episodes of S2, with The Meeting Ball disaster as a version of Warlock's birthday party. This time around, the party leads to the influence and not the other way around.

In S1, it's Crowley as Scary Poppins at the door to influence Warlock with Aziraphale there to counter him as the gardener... mirrored in S2 with Aziraphale as the Warlock, Crowley the Gardener as one influencing voice and the other being Satan-appearing-as-The-Metatron arriving at the door in the midst of a Poppinspalooza.

But there's still a lot more Mary Poppins than just the above:

A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down...

Most of the Mary Poppins references actually started the prior night with the arrival of the demons, when Crowley paused in the street in mid-conversation as the demons arrived on Whickber Street and spoke aloud about how he felt a change happening a la Bert in the opening scene of Mary Poppins.

Wind's in the East/Mist comin' in

Like something is brewin'/About to begin...

Then, there's Crowley asking Mrs. Sandwich (who is wearing a plume very much like Bert's favorite lady in that opening scene of Mary Poppins) if she "has her hat pin", which is a reference to the suffragette movement, so cast off the shackles of yesterday! shoulder to shoulder into the fray!...

Mary Poppins' "Sister Suffragette" scene is also an example of one of its many scenes in which the humor is built around two characters who aren't at all hearing one another, which is very similar to Aziraphale and Crowley having issues with that to some extent during The Meeting Ball and then being in full-on, Baby-Swap-Plot-level, miscommunication Hell in That Scene in The Final 15. A lot of those Mary Poppins scenes, including "Sister Suffragette", involve action around a door-- like damn near every scene in Good Omens-- as that is symbolic of communication and whose voice is being listened to at any given time.

Or how everyone was then link your elbows/step in time-ing it the fuck out of the shop...

They're at the gate/step in time... It's The Master/step in time...

That was all after things got a bit supercalifragilisticexpialidocious...

So when the cat has got your tongue, Mrs. Sandwich, there's no need to dismay! Just summon up that word and then you've got a lot to say...

Beez's Fly + Hell claiming Mr. Brown of Brown's World of Carpets =

But the best/worst is near the very end:

Though her words are simple and few

Listen, listen/She's calling to you...

Feed the birds/That's what she cries

While overhead/Her birds fill the skies...

So, yeah...

Up/Where the smoke is all billowed and curled, Aziraphale...

...between pavement and stars

is the chimney sweep world...

When there's hardly no day/Nor hardly no night

There's things off in shadow

And off way in white...

We're owed some serious "Let's Go Fly a Kite" come S3. 🦆☂️😊

[lostwords-found]

So Luke is in one band named "Dredgerman" and another named "Penny for the Well." One hauling things up from the deep, and another casting down small offerings into the deep in exchange for a wish or good luck. And it sure seems to be working, with packed houses and extra tour stops. Awesome! All the bargains we've heard made on this show have worked out SO WELL.

And then of course, immediately after attending Luke's most recent...offering?... Alice lands something hauled up from some kind of deep. 🤔

Or two somethings, given the tape recorder. Maybe throwing them back will work, Alice. Maybe it'll be fine.

[autumn-may]

dear diary i thought about how saix is one of the only nobodies to actually fulfill the ideas presented about nobodies+nobody goals and also his position as a child who put everything he had into a goal he would fail to attain in ten years and got so distressed i passed out

[ladybracknellssherry]

Good Omens Deep Dive Ahead! **I have edited and added to this several times now, but "ma point" has stayed the same. Probably every single reblog has a different version of this. It has turned into an absolute BEAST. You might be able to watch both seasons faster than read this at this point 😂😭

---------------------- Okay so I am rewatching S2 right now and golly. I've just noticed something. I'm sure it has already been noticed by plenty of other people so feel free to let me know, link me to some metas, please.

A lot of us have painstakingly analyzed every single frame, statue, clock tick, facial expression, and breath of the final 15. Good. Now we're going to look at the scene in S2E4/The Hitchhiker/1941 when Aziraphale and Crowley are in the bookshop doing their little pre-magic show warm-up roleplay foreplay bit. They're being surveilled by a bunch of half-witted nazi zombie spies. Aziraphale is trying to impress Crowley with his * m a g i c * Crowley is trying really hard to support his Angel.

The Blocking!

Keep in mind the camera angles are not quite the same between these scenes, the dimensions look a bit off because the lighting is completely different and therefore camera settings are different, and some of the furniture has moved a little bit in 90 years (but not much because Aziraphale)

1941 Crowley positions himself approximately / very nearly exactly in the same spot in the bookshop where present-day Crowley stops in the final 15 of S2E6 when Aziraphale says "Crowley, come back." The spot where shortly thereafter Crowley says the awful words that make us cry.

gif by stars-bean

gif by yellenabelova

1941 Azirphale with his little coins is standing in or very nearly in his same relative spot as in that scene, when present-day Aziraphale says "I need you," and "I don't think you understand what I'm offering you." And where shortly thereafter he says the awful words that make us cry.

gif by wearecrowley

gif by mabellous

Then Aziraphale gets a touch insecure when Crowley suggests they go to the magic shop because it is "for professional conjurors," and Crowley responds with his "My Nefertiti Fooling Fellow" line of support and encouragement and believing in Aziraphale. And in that moment Crowley stands and walks towards Aziraphale. And they are mere inches away from one another either fully in or very nearly exactly where they stood or rather will stand during the kiss. I'm not gonna post a kiss gif we have all seen it ten bajillion times and I do not need to cry tonight it is a Wednesday.

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(I’m getting ahead of myself for a second but seriously, c’mon, just look at this fluff muffin's genuine smile above and tell me if it looks anything like that strained nightmare on his face in the gif below.)

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BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE. And take from this what you will. That happy little 1941 West End Girl with his vanished farthing basking in the glow of what he now knows is his Demon's adoration. Rotate our duo 180° around the bookshop and Az is now primed to move into the position where he gives his frantic The Metatron's not so bad of a dude and Heaven are the Good Guys and Crowley is one of the Bad Guys nonsense ridiculousness that totally walks back on Aziraphale's entire character growth over 2 seasons. Could it possibly visually represent that our favorite little white-winged stim-city cinnamon roll found himself in the final 15 in a situation at a complete 180° from that moment in 1941 when he was so happy and being genuinely sincerely himself and he was about to do something that he really actually genuinely wanted so badly to do and it was GOOD and it was RIGHT. Crowley's confession is obviously such a wildcard. At this point in 1941 Crowley is supporting and encouraging and working with Aziraphale and in the final 15 he is doing exactly not that.

And even more. In both the 1941 scene and the final 15, Crowley has just entered, respectively, a church and Heaven to save Aziraphale in the middle of the blitz/a demon army almost war battle. A massive atmospheric difference is that 1941 happens at night and the final 15 happens in the morning. We'll work on figuring out what that might represent.

And then we have some seriously upsetting parallel Angel/Demon on the shoulder blocking/framing moments.

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and

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And several more of such occur between the two scenes but I simply cannot.

And here's the part where I ramble and try to make sense of this in terms of the theories and fail miserably.

Get up, stretch your legs, have a glass of water, and take several deep breaths in.....and out..... You good? Let's go.

I've said it many times before and I stand by it that Aziraphale was lying through his teeth to Crowley in the final 15. Not because he wanted to lie to Crowley to convince him to come or to try to push him away - but because he was putting on a show for the Metatron. I think that just like the nazi zombies in 1941, the Metatron in S2E6 was absolutely watching Az's every move in the bookshop. And Az knew it. The first few times I watched it I thought Aziraphale's nervous glances to his left during his weird speech and the divorce were just nervous glances. Then I noticed that after he turned to face the other direction, his nervous glances went in the same direction, to his right side now, all the while to the window. It's alarming the frequency, several times a minute (but you were already acutely aware of the window glances you ineffably clever little shits.) I believe the whole final scene between our babies was an attempt at a sleight of hand by Aziraphale to subversively communicate with Crowley without letting on to the Metatron. How fitting that the parallel scene in 1941 revolved around supporting one another and planning and rehearsing for a performance that required for them to trust each other implicitly. And while I believe the act is for the Metatron, he is acting at Crowley - but expected him to catch on and act with him using coded language, movements, expressions, etc. that he expected/hoped Crowley would be able to read. However, both Crowley and Aziraphale in the final 15 were very clearly genuinely distraught for their own reasons. Crowley is about to finally verbally profess his love - and Aziraphale, I quite think, is terrified about his conversation with the Metatron and what's about to happen and is trying to come up with a tactic on the spot. It seems very likely to me that the intensity of their respective emotions in this moment absolutely doomed their communication.

How this all fits in with the leading theories.

I don't buy into the coffee theory. I think that was a metaphor or an allusion or symbolic of a very real "either accept my offer (which is not something you even want because everyone knows Aziraphale doesn't drink coffee) or suffer some dire consequences." I can't imagine Aziraphale would have ever thought the Metatron's offer was genuine and given out of merit. Surely he knew that he was in trouble. He'd thwarted the apocalypse, quit his job, stopped hiding that his person is a Demon, set off alarm bells in heaven twice in one week, blew up his halo and almost started a war, and hid an archangel on the lam. “You’re honest.” Bbgygrl bold face lied to the archangels for a week and the Metatron knows and Az knows he knows.

I'm not really for the body swap theory. Not really at all.

I’m not really for Angel!Crowley’s memory was wiped. How then would he remember the passwords? Crowley’s personality is very “that bitch” so I think all of his no-idea-who-tf-you-are interactions is just him being catty.

The time stop theory seems the most intriguing, I'm listening, but not yet sold. How prominently the ticking of the clock can be heard at all times in the bookshop feels important. I find myself flummoxed by the "missing minutes" / "continuity error" with that prominent clock in a show where the attention to detail is, “as you might say, a miracle,” that is propelling whole droves of human beings to the brink of discorporation. Here's an excellent breakdown of the timeline/examination of the clock in S2 by thesherrinfordfacility

I am, at this current moment in time, in the camp that believes Az likely attempted to convince Crowley to stop time so that he could explain the situation to him. To explain the threat - either implied, inferred, or direct - from the Metatron. To try to formulate a plan together. Check out this analysis from ineffableigh and take another look at Aziraphale babbling out his Heaven propaganda. Apparently the lip-reading theory that Az was mouthing about "time" has been debunked, but I stand by what looks like Aziraphale making the "time-out" hand gesture. And that damned clock loudly ticking its heart out all season must be important. Mustn't it??

Still, I'm not entirely convinced that any time stopping actually happened, not sure when it would have happened. Crowley was so emotional in a way we have never seen him. I think its highly possible that in the heat of that moment he wasn't catching Aziraphale's signals. I think that Crowley after the talk with Maggie and Nina was so caught up in saying what he was really thinking that it used up any possible bandwidth for LISTENING. But damn those tells seem like they would be/should be giant flashing neon warning signs to Crowley.

I mean, come on, the "C"lues in Aziraphale's ramble that he is spinning a wild-ass tale with coded language that would only make sense to Crowley are pretty obvious to me. If Az was really trying to convince Crowley to do something the last thing he would say is that it would be "nice(r)." And there is no way that at that point Aziraphale could have truly still considered Crowley to be a part of Hell and therefore one of the "bad guys." Seriously? 2 whole seasons and thousands of years spent learning about shades of grey and watching the Demon, who he loves, prove in a million little ways that he loves him back, watching that Demon do the right thing over and over, and TEACHING him, the Angel, the right thing. “Nothing lasts forever.” ?? My son is talking about his BOOKS. He is talking about THEM. They are IMMORTAL. They know what Eternity means. THEY last forever. If Aziraphale wanted to convince Crowley to come back and be an Angel, he would not have used that phrase/reasoning in his argument knowing full well that when Angel!Crowley became aware that his creation would be intentionally shut down, from Aziraphale's own mouth, mind, that was the triggering event that eventually led to Crowley's fall. Further, it would never have occurred to Aziraphale to try to use hurtful language to attempt to push Crowley away at this point because it has already been proven that that doesn’t work. S1E3 “I don’t even like you! “You do!” I think his erraticism in this scene was being totally caught off guard by Crowley's confession and trying to reconcile how to process and handle that while also trying to stick to his tactic of trying to get Crowley to read him. Az is brilliant, but Crowley is the one who usually can problem solve on his feet.

Az is clever enough to discern that he wasn't being offered the position in Heaven by the Metatron - Az was being forced back to Heaven. He wouldn't be happy or excited to make a difference in Heaven because he thought it was "the side of truth, of light, of good." No. There was no longer any freedom from Heaven, no safety for Aziraphale, which meant there was no longer any safety for Crowley. And if there was one motivator for Aziraphale above all other things it would be to keep Crowley safe. He had no choice but to go back to Heaven, so its not a matter of we can make a difference. It is a matter of we have to.

While I believe all of his word horror batshit disaster monologue was a bunch of old tosh, once present-day Aziraphale turns around from that 180° position to follow Crowley, into that final configuration matching that of 1941, he starts losing it. I think he's realizing that he failed in his attempt to get Crowley to understand. He did not expect to have to keep up this act so long. Crowley is walking away. It has all gone so wrong. He is cracking and the honest words start flooding past the lies. "Work with me!" (come on, catch up, please!) "We can be together"...(reluctantly, barely even trying anymore "...angels." And then it just breaks. "I need you!" "You don't understand!" While that would seem to be the case for Az, it really, at least on the surface, does not seem to have applied for Crowley.

The parallels between the final 15 and 1941 suggest to me, at least on the surface, an inverse. In 1941 we saw joy and excitement and wonder and cooperation and communication and trust. Furfur came to take Crowley back to Hell after catching our beloveds working together. And Aziraphale, the world's not best magician, performed a magic trick that may well have saved their existences, and "got it right the time that mattered." The final 15 is, again, on the surface and ostensibly, an abject disharmony. The Metatron came to take Aziraphale back to Heaven, and made a serious effort (no, not that kind, kids) to point out how very much the Ineffables "partnership" is "irregular" and implying, I'm sure, that they would only be permitted to be together as Angels in Heaven (which is a load of steaming celestial garbage.) (We're going to see more of the Az/Metatron conversation in S3, I just know it, there is some seriously important information missing.) But, as far as we were shown, at least on the surface, all of their getting to know one another and trusting one another and being able to read one another - failed to serve them the time that mattered.

And yet. Crowley still lingered in the end and stood so poised and stoic next to the Bentley watching Az step into the Hellevator...It kind of gave a feel that maybe Crowley figured something out. Maybe he had a cool down after storming out and realized something felt very off about that conversation. Maybe he just braced himself and remembered to trust Aziraphale. Maybe as he stormed out he saw the Metatron staring daggers into the bookshop window and it clicked. Maybe in Az's furtive glance back that very last time he once again mouthed "trust me." Some version of Az's message must have finally gotten through to Crowley. Somewhere along the way. It had to have. I can't believe it didn't. All season we were shown Crowley specifically can read Aziraphale. "You have three reasons for calling me" / "tone of voice," the "trust me" lip-reading at the 1941 magic show / Crowley has seen first hand how Az acts when he lies to Heaven in the Job mini-sode. And really. Crowley knows the second coming is on the agenda after his trip to Heaven. These two put the force of their entire existence into thwarting the Apocalypse once. Would he truly believe Aziraphale would want to help bring about the second coming? Sounds unlikely.

So, perhaps, the final 15 isn't in its entirety opposed to 1941. Maybe it's just a few symbolic nods. 1941 Crowley said the magic act they need to perform together needs to be "bigger" more "dramatic." Is there something bigger and more dramatic happening? Are they performing together? Did Crowley catch on? Did they stop time? Or is there a trick, like the photo swap, so surreptitious that it's almost invisible? Perhaps there is just a metaphor in there. Maybe now Crowley has to be the one to catch the metaphorical bullet and Az has to be the one to figuratively shoot? (That's terrifying.)

And then there's still the matter of that damned clock!

Also, let's face it, Alpha Centauri was never a plan. "They'll be shutting this all down in 6000 years.” “All.” As in "the universe.” As in Alpha Centauri included. They were going to have to take some sort of action eventually. I don't think Crowley ever wanted to go. He just wanted Aziraphale to say yes. Yeah, ouch.

Last point I promise is this video from @sendarya

Here, Nightingale Sang in its entirety is lined up with the 13 seconds in which it played in the Bentley and it ends exactly at the final frames of Crowley and Aziraphale. Some have speculated that Crowley had Nightingale queued up to play on the pair's way to breakfast at the Ritz. But that doesn't make sense. Wouldn't one have a song start at the beginning? AND Crowley had yet to have his chat with Maggie and Nina. I'm not so sure that the Crowley we know would have gotten it into his head/summoned up the confidence on his own to ready THAT song. Maybe the often tone-deaf Bentley was trying to comfort Crowley by playing Nightingale? But what I think is that when Aziraphale glanced back, he made the tiniest of little Angel nudge waves to convince the Bentley to play that song. From this vantage point, Michael Aziraphale's creepy smile in the final frame conveys an entirely different sentiment. It makes him look certain. It makes him look like an Angel with a plan. If I'm right in this part, I think that would have been exactly what was needed to finally get his message, intentions, and feelings across to Crowley in a way he could understand.

Come at me hive mind!

Also still new to tumblr and think I royally fudged it on adding those gifs so I'll work on that.