m1ssunderstanding

[m1ssunderstanding]

i liked this image so much i drew it

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"I know you're camp!" okay mr sword swallower lennon deepthroating a mic on camera calm down

[m1ssunderstanding]

Here's my (simplified because we have no space for a novel) tin-hat McLennon hot take: They were casually having sex together (and with other men) since early on (I would be surprised if it started immediately but maybe? I lean more towards Hamburg being the time when shit actually hit the fan), as the time progressed and they were growing closer due to fame and touring, John started to get more and more attached to Paul and started pushing him towards a relationship which Paul was willing to compromise on to a certain degree (I think he wanted family, security and comfort above all and sincerely enjoyed his time being with Jane and then there were his intimacy issues), then they got outed to people they didn't necessarily wanted to get outed to (at least Paul didn't) around the time of India, most likely shortly after (yes, this is my hottest take, don't get burned) which lead to them both being dumped by their women in a short time span, Yoko's sudden arrival on the scene, Paul scrambling to find a woman asap, mentally spiralling (being paranoid in New York pressers that someone's gonna leak it?), sending threatening letters to Apple employees, getting called John's princess etc. John thought it was a chance for them to actually be together, Paul was not up for it at all, he got with Linda, she got pregnant, John knew he's losing Paul and their relationship deteriorates, the marriages being so close together, he pushes and pushes, announces that he's leaving the band and (my second hottest take... Or maybe the hottest?) that he wants to come out publicly (yeah, okay, bear with me - this is what's up with Paul's quotes about how he was "saving their money, saving John from himself, John wanting to take them somewhere they didn't yet belong" and John's "I found out what I want to do and it doesn't have to be with The Beatles, it could have been but I wouldn't wait for them to commit themselves or whatever" and all the "I don't want to sing *She* Loves You when I'm 30 which is my roundabout way of saying I don't want to be doing what I was doing then"), Paul and Klein beg him not to say it (yet), so he's like "okay", at some point he gets cold feet about leaving Paul (see the amoralto post (from Sheff) about Instant Karma!, why on Earth are we here, surely not live in pain and fear), Paul breaks it off finally privately, John goes to Janov, Paul leaves the Beatles and ends Lennon/McCartney publicly Jane style. The end (not really but hey, things take turn for the worse from here at least for a while).

Now this of course doesn't consider a lot of people (like Yoko) and factors but hey, this is the rough outline that makes the most sense to me out of anything I ever came up with (I'm not like... married to this - we will likely never know) and if I tried to explain what I think about the rest as well, we would be here until tomorrow. Phew.

Wow!! Thank you so much for sharing this, anon. You have a beautiful mind. Here's my thoughts.

- They were fucking each other and other men from the beginning, probably starting in Hamburg.

-- Yep. And women, obviously..

- John started to get more and more attached to Paul as time went on and pushed for a relationship.

-- I'm sure you didn't mean to make it sound this way, anon, but it feels very one-sided the way you put it. Paul may not have been as expressive as John by a long shot, but I think he was every bit as attached to John. I will agree that John did most of the dramatic reaching for increased depth in the relationship, but that's because he was an oscillating attachment in a relationship with an avoidant attachment which made him act usually in an anxious role. It's not that Paul didn't want to be close with John, it's just that when your mind works like Paul's does, you have no idea what a close relationship actually looks like. You have no idea what the other person sees you're lacking. I actually also tin-hat about John pushing for a relationship sometimes, but I don't think he would've seen any need for that until they were done touring. I don't know where you had the beginning of that pushing in your mental timeline, but I'd put it at the end of 66, after The Family Way and How I Won the War.

- Paul was willing to compromise on this to some extent, but valued family, security, and comfort, and enjoyed being with Jane.

-- I would love to know what you mean by compromise, here. If you mean he was willing to prioritize John and act in many ways like they were in an exclusive relationship without actually defining anything, I would agree, although with the caveat that in my view that's not him compromising with John that's just actually what he wants. I think one of the biggest desires in Paul's heart, for his whole life, (starting when he was like five, according to him) was to be a father. So I agree with you there. He wants to be both the things he admired in Jim and the things he always felt he deserved but never got from Jim. He loves kids, he understands how their hearts work etc. I might disagree on the security and comfort things, depending on what you mean by those things. Paul definitely craves financial security and safety from "getting in trouble". But other than that I think it's actually John that craves security, not Paul. As far as Jane goes, I think you were just trying to be polite and respectful to her, but I really don't think they generally enjoyed each other's company. You can have happy times with anyone, but I think for the most part they loved the idea of each other, and clashed terribly.

- During/after the India trip they got outed.

-- I would not be too surprised if this was true, but would love to see more evidence for this part of the theory.

- Jane and Cynthia broke up with Paul and John because they found out they were gay for each other or they were embarrassed that other people found out.

-- I disagree with half of this one. The idea of Cynthia breaking up with John is not super plausible to me, especially over something like this. On the way home from India, John confessed to her that he'd been rabidly cheating on her their whole marriage and she described it as actually one of the most tender and loving moments in their marriage. (((My tin hat is he told her about Paul here actually and it was a bit like Benny and Carmen from Overcompensating only they've been abusively married for years and it's the 60's.))) Then the fact that Cynthia found John and Yoko and sort of just left -- I think she actually apologized -- and was like okay how can we make this work? So I don't see it with Cynthia. Jane, I could absolutely see. Especially if she was worried about it getting out. There goes her professionally beneficial relationship. Plus Jane always hated John and she actually expected a modicum of respect from her fiance. I think she would've done it.

- Paul was paranoid about them being outed on a major scale in New York. This comes out in part in the form of threatening messages to Apple employees (who were referring to him as John's princess at the time)

-- Let's say your idea that they were outed in India to some people they really didn't trust was the case. Yes. Absolutely Paul would've been absolutely terrified paranoid out of his mind like that meme where the woman keeps seeing queer language everywhere and she's absolutely distraught would've been him. And he's definitely not acting mentally well. The whole time he's either high as fuck laughing at every word out of John's mouth or high as fuck dissociated to another dimension. I also definitely think the John's Princess -> evil postcards idea is very believable. And again, if he's in this paranoid state from something happening (the loss of control fear and the getting in trouble fears rearing their heads ready to kill) I can totally see it.

- Paul getting with Linda and getting her pregnant made John push more forcefully for a relationship.

-- He was Definitely pushing for Something during Get Back. And I tend to agree with you. I think by that point, what John wanted, was One Person. He wanted Paul to be able to hold his hand and pet his hair in the studio and be the person he went home with every night as well as his best friend and collaborator who it was handy to fuck. I struggle to imagine why he would think Paul would go for that, after the whole John's Princess thing ('what will people think I am in our creative partnership? Who writes the lyrics and who takes it up the ass?') and after Linda is carrying his child. (Like Paul's not going to feel immediately indebted to and protective over and responsible for and enamored by that person) I know John is aware of that and terrified and that's what you're saying but still.

- At the divorce meeting, John also announced that he wanted to come out publicly. Paul and Klein get him to promise he won't yet.

-- My thing with the whole wanting to come out publicly is this: then why didn't he? And why the hell would Yoko co-sign that? I do think the idea of Klein knowing is fascinating because my brain went like this thinking about that possibility. Yeah they would both (Paul and Klein) agree coming out would be bad for business ->But why wouldn't Klein ever out them after things went sour with Paul and then later everyone else? -> Because Paul would sue the shit out of him. -> oh, maybe that's part of why Paul went so strong with the law. To prove he was playing hard ball.

- John gets cold feet about leaving, Paul breaks it off privately and then ends the partnership Jane style.

-- I totally think John got cold feet. A mistake in many ways, he called it, as pointed out on AKOM. The whole breakup, like you said, was John continuously trying to push for some kind of change from Paul. Which you're saying is a relationship and a public one. Late 69 to early 70 was John regretting early-mid 69 and trying to walk it back and Paul being too (depressed, angry, scared, tired) to accept John's attempts at reconciliation. He did call John and they had the whole 'that makes two of us' conversation before he published that self interview, too, so I think you're right there as well.

I would love more clarification and info. Thank you so much for sharing this theory! You very well could be right.

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"...That's it, you're finished. What are you going to do now?"

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Hello! I might've already sent this in, but I was wondering if you could expand on john and paul "moving in" together after they first take lsd, on your Lennon-McCartney relationship harmony chart? Huge fan btw, love your mclennon academia :DD

Hii!

I really wanted to do this ask justice but haven't been able to find the evidence I based this on. A case of coming across things years ago, filing away the conclusions, and forgetting the sources. Can anyone help?

There's that George Martin quote about ~John used to stay at Cavendish with Paul whenever he got bored out in Weybridge. John got bored a lot.~ There's the endless fan pictures of John coming in and out of Cavendish during that time, John and Paul walking Martha together, Paul driving John to the studio. There's that Jane quote about ~when I came back, I was so jealous of all the new experiences Paul had shared with John while I was away~

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🤔🤨??

PLAYBOY: “Do you stick pretty much together off-stage?”

JOHN: “Well, yes and no. Groups like this are normally not friends, you know. They’re just four people out there thrown together to make an act. There may be two of them who sort of go off and are friends, you know, but…”

GEORGE: “Just what do you mean by that?”

JOHN: “Strictly platonic, of course. But we’re all rather good friends, as it happens.

1965, Playboy Interview

This reminds me of:

"Nobody ever said anything about Paul having a spell on me or me having one over Paul! They never thought that was abnormal in those days, two guys together, or four guys together! Why didn't they ever say, "How come those guys don't split up? I mean, what's going on backstage? What is this Paul and John business? How can they be together so long?" (Playboy, 1980)

This:

John's self interview, 1974. It's interesting beacuse he is the one asking the questions too. It's also odd because there wasn't really any talk in the media at the time about John and Paul having a relationship, or at least not that we're aware of.

This:

JOHN: I was trying to put it 'round that I was gay, you know-- I thought that would throw them off... dancing at all the gay clubs in Los Angeles, flirting with the boys... but it never got off the ground." Q: "I think I've only heard that lately about Paul." JOHN: "Oh, I've had him, he's no good." (Hit Parader interview, 1975)

And this:

Reporter: How do you like not having any privacy? Paul: We do have some, you know. John: We just had some. We just had some before, didn't we, Paul? You tell them. (San Francisco press conference, 1964)

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1961. No internet. Still ended up on Snapchat

girlll they’re crazy you cant take them anywhere

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This book about The Liverbirds is giving some wonderful colour to life in Hamburg, and I love this passage in particular.

There was solidarity between the musicians, barmaids, sex workers and female fans. A lot of drag queens, lesbians and trans people would go to the clubs in St Pauli because they felt accepted and protected. In the outside world many led unhappy, closeted lives - during the Second World War thousands of homosexuals were persecuted and interned in concentration camps, and male homosexuality in West Germany was criminalised until 1969. The sixties were heralded as a time of licentious freedom and exploration, but there was still a lot of ignorance about sex.

The Other Fab Four by Mary McGlory & Sylvia Saunders

The Reeperbahn was a place for those on the fringes of society and that included queer people being openly queer. There's an earlier part of this book where Mary and Sylvia are talking about the first night they played at the Star Club, and a group of lesbians had been super excited for an all girl group, and brought them a bottle of champagne half way through the set. There was a lesbian stage manager called Hilda at the club. There were drag queens and male sex workers around.

And this place played a huge role in shaping the bands that came through there, then by extension, the bands they ended up influencing.

Whether or not you think the Beatles were queer might be up for debate in the fandom at large, but the fact of the matter is they learnt how to be The Beatles on the Reeperbahn, and a huge part of what made the Reeperbahn, the Reeperbahn, was queer culture.

[m1ssunderstanding]

paul to the ringo look alike: cigarette?

girl: no

paul: good

:D

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exhibit b of the stark difference in body language between john and george in relation to paul

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a tweet blew up about how john george ringo loathed making maxwell's silver hammer and george called it "fruity" and they hated how paul made them do it a bunch of times. and it's like. okay. in a half joking way i'm like that's that's misogyny. but in a half serious way i'm like....... very intrigued by the language used by the people about paul ..... he is fruity.... camp.... "john's princess" .... pretty face..... grandma songs.... bossy.... that one impression george did of him on the dick cavett show..... etc etc.... anyway in a half very serious way that is Misogyny.

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Jim asked us if we thought Paul had a good voice, and in a dreamy way we said 'Oh YES!' Jim thought, then said, 'Well, he hasn’t got a great voice but he does sing with feeling'.” – Dierdre Mahon

When we first started, I used to get really very nervous. I'd look at the audience and I'd think, ‘they all hate me. I've got to do something good to make them like me. You know, that was where my nerves came from, I'd think like, ‘they're all looking at me like ‘what's he got?’ – Paul McCartney, 2018

Just saw a clip where Paul was talking about early stage fright he had looking in the audience and thinking "some of these people hate me" and worrying if people liked him and I feel like how I imagine historians feel when their guy just comes out and says the theme statement

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Jim McCartney really said if my son isn't home by nine he's sleeping on the porch and now I'm off to gamble the family's food money on the horses

Meanwhile biographers (and Paul) still think he was a good father

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Reblogging to add these tags @adriennefrombrooklyn I screamed so loud and clapped like a fucking circus seal. You're too right he definitely fantasized about lighting that place up on the reg. I desperately need you to write that fic now. John burns the Ashers house down so Paul has to move into his music room like his little pet composer.

The thing is I can 1000% picture this exact dialogue happening up in Paul's Norwegian-Wood-floored Asher Garrett. Paul going "sit anywhere you want;)" like there's so many options and bed takes up the entire room. Then they're fooling around and Paul's still teasing like "I've got work in the morning you know" because they've got the studio tomorrow or something and John's like "I don't" and Paul laughs his head off. Have I read too much fanfiction? Probably. Do I genuinely think this is a possible conversation? Yes.

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“[John’s] eyes skipped from Turtle to Turtle, checking us out for the first time. “And what do you call that guy over there?” John pointed at Tucko, who was cowering in his wrinkled brown suit, thrilled just to be noticed. “That’s Jim Tucker, our rhythm guitar player.” “Bad suit, son. And an even worse haircut. Did you tell your barber to give you a Beatle cut? It’s awful, man. You give rhythm players a bad name.” Tucko, oblivious, stumbled for words. “You’re like a god to me, man. You guys changed my life.” Much to his credit, [Jim] Pons tried, in vain, to turn the conversation around. “We just heard Sergeant Pepper and I’ve got to thank you on behalf of the entire world for the greatest album of all time!” Paul graciously nodded thanks and toasted us with his beverage. But John was not to be denied. “Tucko, is it? I could have a lot of fun with that name. Let’s see… Tucko Tucko, bo bucko, banana fanna fo fucko…” Tucker winced and Lennon saw the weakness and went in for the kill. “There was a boy named Tucko, a very stupid fellow—” Finally, Jim realized that he was the butt of Lennon’s abuse and could hold back no longer. “What is your problem, man? You’re supposed to be the Beatles! I fuckin’ loved you guys and you turn out to be assholes.” Lennon feigned shock and recoiled at the words. “Tsk, tsk… such language. What would your mum say?” “She’d say you were a dick, that’s what! Man, was I wrong. You’re a total shit! I’m sorry I ever met you!” Lennon shook his head slowly, savoring every syllable. “You never did, son. You never did.” And with that, Jim Tucker walked away from the table, up the stairs, and into a cab. And, following the few British shows we had lined up, Jim flew home and never played music again. The Turtles would continue on as a five-piece band from that time forward. The other guys followed Jim upstairs, and our goodbyes were a lot sadder than our hellos had been. “See you, fellas,” said McCartney. “Sorry!” Lennon narrated the egress. “And there they go, ladies and gentlemen, the Truffles from Salad California!””

— Howard Kaylan, Shell Shocked: My Life with the Turtles, Flo and Eddie, and Frank Zappa, etc. (2013) [Note: This is a direct continuation of this quote.] (via amoralto)