#the tragedy of it all makes this ship even more interesting to me

[midnightfict]

What History?

— 𓆩𓆪 —

𓆩 Lee Byung-Hun x F!reader 𓆪

Summary — Squid Game fans have been shipping two actors not knowing they have a history together.

A/N — aaaa, writer’s block is killing me. but the reqs i've been getting is starting to help. i promise i’m currently drafting for the other reqs.

request post

— 𓆩𓆪 —

The room was brightly lit, cameras positioned at every angle, and a familiar nervousness settled in the pit of your stomach. You weren’t new to interviews, but something about these promotional videos always made you a little jittery. Maybe it was the anticipation of how fans would react, or maybe it was the fact that sitting next to you was none other than Lee Byung-hun—your former high school boyfriend and now your co-star in Squid Game Season 2.

The two of you walked into the room together, followed by director Hwang Dong-hyuk, who greeted the crew with a casual nod.

“Alright,” a staff member announced. “We’re shooting two videos today. The first segment is watching fan edits, and the second is reading fan letters. Just react naturally, have fun, and remember—no breaking into hysterics.”

Byung-hun chuckled beside you. “That sounds like a challenge.”

You smirked. “You sound scared.”

“I might as well be. Have you seen those AI edits of me and Lee Jung-jae?”

The staff gestured for silence, signaling that the cameras were rolling. You introduced yourself to the camera, followed by Byung-hun and Dong-hyuk. The screen before you flickered to life, and the first video started playing.

The first edit was cinematic—a high-energy montage of Squid Game 2’s most intense moments. Gunfights, chase sequences, close-ups of steely gazes. It had everything. The booming orchestral soundtrack made every scene feel ten times more dramatic.

Byung-hun let out an impressed whistle. “Did we actually shoot something this cool?”

You nodded. “Because I don’t remember looking this badass.”

Dong-hyuk leaned forward, squinting. “Wait—when did you do that roll behind cover?”

You snorted. “That’s the one where I landed wrong and bruised my entire arm.”

Byung-hun grinned. “Ohhh, right. And you tried to play it off like you meant to do it.”

“I did mean to do it.”

Dong-hyuk shook his head. “That’s not what you said when you screamed in pain afterward.”

Byung-hun burst into laughter. Your light punch to his side silenced him, earning a dramatic yelp.

“Give respect to your elders!”

You gave the camera a look. “He’s so dramatic. We’re literally only one year apart.”

The next edit was a deep dive into In-ho’s past, set in black and white with emotional piano music. It contrasted his life as a police officer with his role as the Front Man, highlighting the tragedy of his choices.

Dong-hyuk hummed thoughtfully. “This fan basically made a better teaser than we did.”

Byung-hun nodded. “Can we hire them?”

You pointed at a particular shot. “This scene—this is when you had to retake your mask removal, what, twenty times?”

Byung-hun groaned. “Ugh. The mask kept getting caught on my hood. Every time I tried to look dramatic, I just looked stuck.”

Dong-hyuk chuckled. “We had to cut out three takes where you sighed right into the mask.”

Byung-hun held up his hands. “No need to expose me like that.”

Then came the brainrot edit. An animation of Squid Game characters dancing to some bizarre, upbeat song.

You had the biggest grin—too silly not to laugh. The video didn’t even make sense.

Dong-hyuk had his brows furrowed, an amused but not entirely entertained smile on his face.

Byung-hun, on the other hand, sat perfectly still, eyes locked on the screen. No one could tell what he was thinking.

When it ended, you all exchanged an awkward glance.

“I mean… I like it. It’s an interesting video,” you said, wiping tears from the corners of your eyes, still laughing.

Dong-hyuk fixed his glasses. “Is this what people see when they watch my show?”

Byung-hun crossed his arms. “They didn’t do me justice. Why is the Front Man not included in this video?”

The staff smirked. “Don’t worry, there’s a Front Man edit in the next one.”

The next video was different. The music was softer, the pacing slower. It highlighted your character’s interactions with In-ho—subtle glances, moments of hesitation, scenes where your characters moved in sync. It wasn’t obvious in the actual show, but with the way the editor framed it…

It almost looked like something was going on.

Byung-hun blinked. “What’s this?”

Dong-hyuk raised an eyebrow. “They created scenes that aren’t even in the series.”

You squinted. “Are we too old to understand what this is?”

It was a ship edit.

Silence.

Then, Byung-hun let out a slow, amused chuckle. “Well. That was unexpected.”

Dong-hyuk crossed his arms. “You two do have really natural chemistry.”

You cleared your throat. “I mean, our characters have history, so—”

Byung-hun nodded. “Right, right. Former police officers.”

Dong-hyuk hummed. “Well, I had another love interest in mind for In-ho, but thinking about it… your characters being shipped makes sense. Maybe I should make it canon in Season 3.”

Both you and Byung-hun snapped your heads toward him.

“Huh?!”

The crew erupted into laughter. Dong-hyuk smiled and closed the segment with a thank-you and a Squid Game 2 promotion.

After a quick makeup touch-up, a staff member placed a stack of envelopes in front of you, Byung-hun, and Dong-hyuk.

Dong-hyuk stretched his arms and grinned. “Alright, let’s see what the fans have to say. If anyone insults my writing, I’m walking out.”

Byung-hun smirked. “I’d say you’re bluffing, but we all know you’re dramatic enough to do it.”

You laughed. “Place your bets, everyone. How many letters will be about Byung-hun’s attractiveness?”

Byung-hun scoffed. “Excuse me, I am a serious actor. Not just a handsome face.”

The cameras rolled.

You picked up the first letter and smoothed it out before reading aloud.

‘Dear Director Hwang, your storytelling is a masterpiece. Every scene feels like it has so much depth and emotion. How do you come up with such gripping narratives?’

Dong-hyuk’s face lit up. “Ah, A letter for me!”

Byung-hun immediately reached over, fingers grasping at the paper. “Skip it.”

You swatted his hand away. “No, let him have his moment.”

Dong-hyuk straightened his posture, adjusting his jacket with mock importance. “Well, since you asked… My process is simple. I think, ‘What is the most stressful, painful situation I can put my characters in?’ And then I do that.”

Byung-hun leaned back in his chair, shaking his head. “I knew you enjoyed torturing us.”

Dong-hyuk grinned. “Absolutely.”

Byung-hun exhaled, then grabbed the next letter from the pile, unfolding it.

‘Was filming action scenes difficult? Especially the parkour scenes.’

You didn’t hesitate. “Oh, definitely. That scene where I had to jump from bed to bed? I had bruises for days.”

Byung-hun winced at the memory. “Oh yeah, you took a pretty bad fall.”

You sighed dramatically, throwing your arms up. “And no one even said ‘cut’ when I landed wrong! I had to just lie there in pain.”

Dong-hyuk raised a hand in defense. “Okay, to be fair, it looked intentional.”

Byung-hun let out a deep chuckle, shaking his head. “You heard it here first, folks. The director is a masochist.”

Dong-hyuk smirked. “It builds character.”

Byung-hun rubbed his temple. “I worry for your future wife.”

You sifted through the pile and grabbed the next letter.

‘To Byung-hun, was it difficult wearing the Front Man’s mask for long periods of time? It looks heavy.’

Byung-hun groaned dramatically, flopping against the back of his chair. “Oh, you have no idea.”

Dong-hyuk snorted. “He complained about it every single day.”

Byung-hun sat up, pointing at him. “Because it was a legitimate problem! The mask was so heavy, and it pressed into my face so much that I had red marks after every shoot.”

You bit back a laugh. “And let’s not forget the time it got stuck.”

Byung-hun groaned, covering his face with his hands. “Oh, please, let’s forget that.”

Dong-hyuk smirked. “We have footage.”

Byung-hun immediately turned to the camera, eyes pleading. “Dear editors, if you have any mercy, don’t include that clip.”

They did.

Dong-hyuk chuckled and grabbed the next letter. “‘Director Hwang, who is your favorite character in Squid Game?’”

He let out a dramatic sigh. “Yikes. That’s like asking me to pick my favorite child.”

Byung-hun smirked. “But we all know you have a favorite.”

Dong-hyuk tapped his fingers against the table, pretending to contemplate. “Well… I have a soft spot for In-ho.”

Byung-hun gasped, clutching his chest as if he’d been struck. “You love me?”

Dong-hyuk’s deadpan stare didn’t waver. “I said I love In-ho. Not you.”

You burst into laughter as Byung-hun recoiled in mock betrayal. “Wow, I won’t return to Season 3 then.”

Dong-hyuk ignored him, his expression thoughtful. “I love complex characters, and In-ho has so much depth. There’s still so much left to explore with him.”

You leaned in. “So, does that mean he’s safe in Season 3?”

Dong-hyuk smirked. “I mean, it’s possible, but I don’t know. We’ll have to find out.”

Byung-hun cut in, laughing. “What do you mean you don’t know? You created the story.”

Dong-hyuk simply shrugged. “Let’s just say… No one is ever truly safe.”

The next letter Byung-hun picked up seemed harmless at first.

‘I don’t know what it is, but…’

He stopped mid-sentence, chuckling as he glanced at the camera, then at you and Dong-hyuk. “I don’t know if I can continue reading this without someone getting mad.”

Silence fell over the room.

Curious, you snatched the letter from his hands and scanned it. A laugh bubbled out of you. “Who’s gonna get mad over this?”

Byung-hun gave you a knowing look, subtly hinting at someone you had dated during filming.

Your expression faltered for half a second before you quickly masked it with a tight smile. Keeping your mouth hidden from the camera, you mouthed, “We broke up.”

Dong-hyuk grinned and leaned forward to peek at the letter over your shoulder. “Well, well, well. They think you two have some history together because you make the characters so compelling together.”

Byung-hun cleared his throat, spitting out a joke before anyone could dwell on the comment. “Have you guys ever considered we are both just very good actors?”

Dong-hyuk stroked his chin, looking thoughtful. “Seeing how everybody seems to ship you two, maybe I should create a romance movie with you both.”

You and Byung-hun turned to him in horror, simultaneously shaking your heads.

Dong-hyuk simply shrugged. “What? The fans love it. I should give them what they want.”

Byung-hun laughed nervously and quickly faced the camera. “Okay let's end it! Thank you for watching this video. Don’t forget to watch us on Netflix!”

After finishing the shoot, the three of you parted ways—but the internet did not.

A week after the video was published, fans went crazy. The shipping theories got worse. Your social media was flooded with comments. Multiple media outlets invited you and Byung-hun for interviews together, riding the hype.

One afternoon, before another press event, you texted him.

Want to grab coffee before the next interview?

Thought you’d never ask.

At the café, he took a sip of his drink and smirked. “Remember how broke we were from getting coffee every other day in high school?”

You groaned. “Oh god, that was what? Twenty—no, thirty years ago? High school was rough. I don’t even want to remember that.”

“You’re mean. So I meant nothing to you?” He feigned hurt, holding back a smile.

“Oh, shush. You know what I mean.” You playfully pushed his forehead as he held the door open for you. “Besides, we lasted ‘til university, no—”

Click.

A camera shutter.

You froze. He froze.

Through the café window, a crowd had formed. Some held up phones. Others were whispering excitedly.

Fuck. They found you.

Byung-hun exhaled. “Well, I guess there’s no turning back.”

Then, with a smirk, he grabbed your hand, laced his fingers through yours, and yanked you out of the sea of screaming fans.

[psychelocking]

obirin is honestly such a premium quality ship and i'll forever be obsessed with them

[stop-breaking-my-heart-telltale]

if dorian didn't show up, do you think louis would have shot minnie?

I do. I know some people think either he wouldn't have or he would've missed so that's why the writers had him shoot Dorian instead, but mmmmmm no, I don't personally think so. I like to think that if he had taken the shot, his shaky hands would've caused him to shoot her fatally.

Mostly because I'm already so normal about the fact that of the Ericson crew, Marlon and Louis are the only ones with a body count. Well, that we know of, but shown to us in the game, at least. Plus, we know it's Louis' first kill.

Like yeah, Clementine and AJ become part of the crew and they have bigger body counts, and if we're counting indirect kills caused by actions, then Tenn has a count... and I guess everyone has blood on their hands for blowing up the boat... but I'm talking about killed directly with a weapon like....... I lied, I'm not normal about that at all, Louis and Marlon are the ones who have killed someone in Louis' route. I'm also not normal about the fact that Louis kills Dorian and then even as he's clearly in shock, he tries to go with Clementine to get AJ, and then later on when they talk about it, he says it feels like bile but not quite and he's glad he has it in him to do it.... listen, listen, listen... I'm obsessed with that.

Anyway, so if Louis shot Minerva, I think he would've accidentally killed her and can you imagine? He's already enough of a mess after killing the woman who pinned him down and tried to cut his finger off [or succeeded] but he knew Minerva, they were friends before the twins were taken. Even Violet couldn't kill her even though that would've been the smarter thing to do, and we know thanks to meta knowledge that killing her would've saved lives, but Violet couldn't, and I don't think Louis would intentionally either.

Speaking of Violet, if Louis killed Minerva, I hate to think about what that would've done to Vi. I think she might've actually left at that point, like what was planned before it got changed to her being burned. I don't think she would've attacked Louis over it, though, like yeah she attacked Clementine in the cell but Louis? I don't know, but I don't think so just because it's Louis and he'd be a mess about it anyway.

Though if he did kill her, it would be a neat parallel to draw... y'know, because Louis forgave AJ for killing Marlon even though he was pissed and heartbroken, and Violet was annoyed with him the entire time... but could she ever forgive Louis for killing Minerva? Y'know? We already have a similar parallel with AJ shooting Tenn, but still.

If Clementine killed Minerva in that moment, though, then I could see Violet attacking her since in her eyes, Clem proved her right.

So yeah, I get why they added the Dorian kill to his route. It adds another compelling element to Louis as a character, but we also need Minerva alive for episode 4; Louis can't kill her, he can't miss, and he's not going to stay with her because we need Violet to stay on the boat and him to be on shore for all routes.

[milfbrainrot]

have always been a bit more neutral to timebomb but it has rly surprisingly grown on me so much ;-; i think i do see it more from the tragedy angle and maybe more one-sided. i'm not sure jinx has ever been in a place to reciprocate the feelings i'm sure ekko has, but it is nice to think about for years down the line and in terms of what could have been.

[microwaving-tesilid-argente]

.

[jingyi-ma-boi]

Don’t do this to me, please, I beg you (/j). My polyam, AuADHD ass loves these three men SO MUCH and is incapable of choosing among them. Like, yes, I am obsessed with JGY and kinda project onto/relate to him a lot. But it’s the same with NMJ and LXC for me. I won’t say I love them equally because you never love different entities in the same way and all the JGY hate there’s out there makes me focus more on the JGY stan side of things, but I honestly cannot choose between them 😭

Time to start a war.

[mari-lair]

hello ! i love your fics and analysis! I was wondering which tbhk ships you think will become endgame?

Anon I have the most white bread of answers but since you asked-

1 - Hananene.

Nene starts the manga by wanting a date. It doesn't matter with who, any hot guy will do. She has many infatuations but isn't in love with anyone, she just want to be loved.

Nene has a lot of small character developments in different areas throughout the manga, but her strongest and most consistent change is her increasing love for Hanako and her acceptance of it.

She is still a girl with a ton of emotions, and she finds hot people attractive BUT now she want Hanako and only Hanako. She rejects everyone she used to have a crush on, there is no doki doki's when she gets the attention of pretty people cause they aren't the boys she wants attention from anymore.

Even Teru doesn't compare to Hanako. She went on a 'date' with him and felt more excited about bragging than the actual 'date'

AND SHE DID NOT BRAG when hanako got back, she just wanted to enjoy that he's back.

I don't even know why I am going so in dept on the couple stablished since chapter 1 but since i'm already rambling: Despite everything crazy going on in the festival NENE'S BIGGEST FOCUS WAS TO CONFESS TO HANAKO. That's something she thinks more about than her own death, like girl- Hanako is her whole world. She will not get a romance with another person.

There is the question of "Will Nene survive?"

If she doesn't, she'll disappear and have no boyfriend but I bet she'll be thinking about Hanako in her death. If she finds a way to become a supernatural in a very wild narrative choice she will be able to stay with hanako in their cursed eternity forever.

In the case she lives and Hanako gets exorcised she won't move on. Aidairo loves tragedies and obsessive love, so I can't see her approaching crushes with the same whimsy after her love dies. And Aidairo would likely preffer to make her suffer in her grief and longing than give her a rebound with some random guy, cause it sure won't be Kou.

2 - Mitsukou

My personal preferences aside, it is clear they are written to have romantic implications. Kou will either die with Mitsuba (As shown in the new timeline), and stay with him in death.

Or live to have an intense homoerotic 'friendship' with him.

He legit can't get mitsuba off his head, he thinks about him more than anything during the manga and he has A LOT of problems to think about.

I can't personally picture an explicit confession but we had a lot of equivalents already. It would be weird for Aidairo to send them to the aquarium, make Kou obsessed with mitsuba (and vise verse), show that they are 'very very close' in this new timeline, keep drawing them star-struck by each other and so on without romance in the head.

Kou is also never able to put his feelings into words, like, bro that's suspicious as hell.

They always get matching art with all the couples in Aidairo's twitter arts too.

That's not queerbaiting, they may not be explicit but by the lord they are not subtle at all, there is never a single "oh Mitsuba is like a brother to me" moment, they don't undo any of the gay implications we see, they double down on it.

Kou may be bi but it sure isn't the Nene route that Aidairo is playing.

3 - Aoikane

Akane has loved Aoi since he was a little kid. Waaaaaaay before he got a clock keeper contract.

He saw that Aoi cared so much about his opinion that she'd break out of her cold persona and burst into tears at the idea of being hated, and he locked in for life.

They are the codependent childhood friends troupe, the "I know you better than anyone" troupe, the "you are a part of my life I can't live without" troupe and they both love each other from the very start of the manga, not showing romantic interest in anyone else.

Nothing has made Akane change his mind about being with Aoi. Not being stabbed, not being rejected many times, not facing how bad aoi is at deling with her issues head on. He'll do anything for her time and time again.

in Akane's own words:

They had many build ups and a whole arc dedicated to their developments with each other (which is a lot considering they aren't main characters and Aoi usually get no focus in this manga.)

Narratively, it wouldn't make any sense to dedicate so many chapters pointing out how much they mean to each other and slowly working through their issues only to slap another ship at the end.

And is not like Aidairo said "They had their arc let's never talk about them again!", the author went out of her way to say "Even in a world where Aoi is in an arranged marriage, she still loves Akane"

They aren't subtle.

From the matching names, to the way they both crumble when they are separated from one another and keep thinking about marriage, they are very devoted. They have already explicitly confessed to the audience that they are in love with each other.

They'll either stay together forever or they'll die together.

[yellowocaballero]

i very much enjoy the extremely scientific analysis of the naruto verse in which there are three genders, aka naruto, sasuke, and Woman.

AM I WRONG? AM I WRONG? pulls down projection screen and plays powerpoint

Obviously let's give room for nuance. A ton of Naruto characters don't fall into these gender norms. This does predominantly apply to the rampant proliferation of the three-person dynamics that were assigned by the government and dictate your entire life. And, like, society. It does not end. Gender isn't a biological factor in Naruto, it's a social dynamic constructed entirely by your homoerotic tension with other men. And there are so many.

Madara (S), Hashirama (N), Mito (W). Izuna (N) and Tobirama (S) - tragically, Izuna died before women could be invented. Sarutobi (N), Danzo (S, horrifically) - see above about women not being invented yet. Jiraiya (N), Orochimaru (S), Tsunade (W). Yahiko (N), Nagato (S), Konan (W). Obito (N), Kakashi (S), Rin (W). Shisui (N), Itachi (S), that little deeply unimportant girlfriend (W). Um, fucking, Naruto (N), Sasuke (S), Sakura (W). Even - even, fuckin, Rock Lee (N), Neiji (S), Tenten (W).

And what do they all have in common????

(OT3. They're all OT3s. Is what I'm saying).

There is some room for alternative gender expressions here, like being butch or femme. Naruto gender expressions: teacher, otouto, woman who you can't even tell is woman gendered because she has no backstory but you just have to kinda assume that she has a polycule-based backstory where she was Woman Gender. I feel almost as if 2/3rds of the Rookie 9 are liberated from this. InoShikaCho just doesn't fit (their chaotic cousin energy is just too strong and Ino's too much of a lesbian). Hinata's too busy being defined entirely by a different throuple's N to have codependent dynamics with her own N and S (and I'm hesitant to even say that, since I actually don't know if Kiba and Shino have a codependent rivalry - do they?).

I get, like, the reason for all of this. Curse of Hatred. Cycles. N and S Genders being sourced from demigods or something. Narrative parallelism. Sympathy points. It's not the bad guy's fault he's evil, his N and W gendered counterparts died :(. But an extremely strange side-effect of this is that all of the male characters are, like, Just Naruto or Just Sasuke. But the vast majority of the female characters are - like, completely defined by the men in their lives - but also they are more likely to be a unique person. Mito, Sakura, and Rin have actually nothing in common. Writing so sexist it creates more interesting characters?!?!

Unironically, this is why I'm always saying that Sasunaru is the ship of all time, nothing will ever top it, you will NEVER do it like Sasunaru, etc. Every important relationship in the series is meant to evoke Sasunaru. (Notably, none of the explicitly romantic ones. But we're beyond such paltry understandings of the most iconic pairing of all time as fundamentally based in romance. We're operating on a higher level than that). This unbroken chain of toxic yaoi has culminated at the end point of Sasunaru, and it exists to parallel Sasunaru and define their relationship by the dysfunction of generations of tragedy. That's why Naruto has to consciously break the cycle and free them from the generational hate - it was the only way to save Sasuke. This is also why I'm always saying that Sasunaru is the point of Naruto, and that the entirety of Naruto is about Sasunaru. Come back to me when your work has invented new genders in the all-encompassing pursuit of toxic yaoi.

This also means that the only truly gender non-conforming individuals in Naruto are its mightiest heterosexuals: Minato (W) and Kushina (N). Truly insane. The N/S/W configuration is the societal norm, it's bonkers to make a major good-aligned male character a wifeguy. By Naruto standards Minato and Kushina are the only queer couple.

[ballerinarina]

𐙚LET'S TALK ABOUT... DIEGO, LILA & FIVE

Okay, firstly I need to state that I'm going to say my impressions about the season four of The Umbrella Academy, focusing on the subway plotline. My considerations are very long (I'm talkative!) and about what I watched in the episodes and what I read on social media, so, I am totally open to opinions too!!

As an hyperfocused girl, I've been thinking about the subway arc plot decision during an absurd amout of time. I watched it a few times and read a lot of opinions. Yet, I still feel a little... surprised (?) by the intense hate over it.

It's not about liking or disliking the new couple that I'm talking about. Since naturally people would prefer one ship over another, it was obviously waited that the opinions would be divided.

I just... can't understand why people hated it so much as if it was a bad plot decision. Diego and Lila are beautiful together, i agree! They have a long, real and strong love story together. But why people are acting like this new plotline erased all their relationship together? Relationships are more complex than that.

Feelings are more complex than that. Humans are.

Actually, I may say that the psychological development that happens in the subway is way more interesting because Lila and Diego love each other, as much as Five loves Diego too.

This being said, I don't mean that I think a cheating plotline is interesting because of the cheating. I actually use to dislike it a lot. However, dealing with cheating in a black-and-white way as if it's an indefendible action is not clever. Sometimes, some things I read make me realize that people are so stuck into traditional morals that their capacity of thinking and analyzing complex emotional situations is kind of... damaged.

𝐒𝐨... 𝐋𝐢𝐥𝐚 𝐗 𝐃𝐢𝐞𝐠𝐨 𝐨𝐫 𝐋𝐢𝐥𝐚 𝐗 𝐅𝐢𝐯𝐞?

The Umbrella Academy is known as a series with very human and complex characters. That's what makes it so good, from the beginning! That's why I think it's kind of sad to judge their relationship with a typical moral view.

Claiming that Lila didn't deserve Diego, for example is so... so sad. She was an amazing mother and wife. She tried to go back to them for six years and as soon as she could she went back! Not even thinking twice! She loves Diego, of course she does!

Loving Five doesn't make her love for Diego less strong.

I really don't think Lila X Five is just neediness, however, no way. They already spent two seasons constructing a beautiful (friend) relationship before and in this horrible context they spent a lot of time taking care of each other, being each other's support. Considering this and their communication development — jokes on season 3, kindness in the beginning of season 4 — it's not surprising or nonsense that it turned to become romantic. People and relationships change, love is built and adapted.

I don't think Lila stopped loving Diego (i mean romantically, but even if she did, she surely didn't in other ways of loving that are as beautiful as it is) but that doesn't make her love for Five false, and Five loving and having a relationship with her doesn't make him a bad brother either. That's why I emphasized that TUA is a series with complex relationships. Why do you get upset and surprised when another relationship between complicated characters is built due to the tragedies of the script?

If this didn't cause outrage before, could it cause because, this time, when things get complicated, the plot resource used questions the standard romantic drama format expected by the system?

𝐍𝐨𝐧𝐬𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐞 𝐩𝐥𝐨𝐭? 𝐎𝐮𝐭 𝐨𝐟 𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐫𝐚𝐜𝐭𝐞𝐫?

I guess one of the main arguments I saw was that their relationship didn't make any sense and that their scenes were extremely out of character, but I don't think it could be sustained when they both are characters who go through a lot that makes them change, alone or together. What they're claiming being out of character may simply be character development under non-ideal circumstances.

It seems like there's an strong resistance to open their minds while watching and realize that love isn't something that can only happen once and/or once at a time and under ideal situations. Diego and Lila's marriage crisis, Five and Lila developing ther friendship inbetween work cumplicity, Five looking more lost and tired in his decisions than before, the fact that it is the second time he has been trapped in space-time — which is a big trauma for him, since, from the first season (in the first apocalypse) we have been shown that, despite being introverted, arrogant and reserved, it is precisely "relating" that serves as a point of refuge for Five not to go crazy, lowering his guard and being kind...

All of this constructs very well their psychological coherency. "He wouldn't treat her like that during season 2 or 3!", "Lila would never be a domestic mother/ Five wouldn't work do CIA!". Well, we're talking about them now, not there.

One of the plot decisions to start this season was that the characters were living between what they kind-of-desired, but things still weren't fine, they still weren't getting what they wanted.

Five being free from the world-ending, but stll not being able to relax and live a simple retired life as he wanted. Klaus being sober and free of the ghosts, but insecure and anxious. Allison having Claire and Ray, but still unable to live a happy marriage and career. Viktor having his place working with something that makes him comfortable, but still unable to find love. Diego and Lila having a family and marriage and still unable to feel happy because the domestic work dynamic wasn't working...

Adulthood. Real life. None of those situations were out of character, as much as none of the psychological changes they suffered were too.

𝐀 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐜𝐥𝐮𝐬𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐚𝐛𝐨𝐮𝐭 𝐜𝐨����𝐬𝐞𝐫𝐯𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐬𝐦

Since I don't really see the point on why would all of the happenings between them three could be claimed as "nonsense", even less "unasked" or "unnecessary" — because it's a work of fiction and, even if it may not be what the public wants to watch, it is not something that needs to prove its usefulness, just as events (that tie together well, because coherency matters) do not need to prove their necessity in art —, so it makes me even more sad that clearly mostly of the reactions are based on conservative views of marriage.

I know this season is not perfect, and it had a lot of defects, so I'm not saying the arc is perfect. As all the other arcs, it happened in a hurry, making us the public less abl to feel the 7 years of development. Complaining about how the arc was executed is perfectly fine, actually: after all, we know that 4 episodes were cut from the original script, as were many recorded scenes (including a big part of the subway plotline).

AIDAN: "There's a lot of the relationship with Lila that we filmes but they cut it. It took weeks to film it and they used a few minutes in a montage. That wasn't right. It also made very hard for the viewers to believe when we spent weeks filming scenes to set up that scenario."

But when I bring the conservatism theme (misoginy and remnants/consequences of the monogamous religious structure), it's because, even if we have lots of other of worse defects on other parts of the season, the biggest public overreacting opinions have been undoubtly about Five and Lila.

Anyone who spends more than 2 minutes in the comments on Twitter, Tiktok or even here knows that most of the time people've been sad and angry treating them both as if they were turned into cheaters with no morals (Five as a new kind of scroundrel asshole, Lila as some kind of ungrateful whore and I've even seen people problematizing their enemies phase, or the age difference as if one of then, or even the director, were predators, which is pure nonsense) and I can't even express how it makes me deeply melancholic.

I can't see how reacting as if the situations they were put in and their actions toward it in the scripts were absurd, terrible and dumb can't be just conservative, because they were actually very well tied script decisions, used in a bold way. With an interesting and well written enemies to frenemies to friends to lovers trope, they managed to write something fun and that developed both of the characters in their early-season-conflicts-arising-from-other-seasons.

𝐒𝐨? 𝐖𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐝𝐨 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐦𝐞𝐚𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐧, 𝐂𝐞𝐂𝐞?

I truly just... Can't understand how some people ended up having collectively such insensitive opinions about the relationship of two characters who were so... vulnerable.

Non-ironically I even saw a lot of people defending they would prefer Five to end up with a “real life Dolores” plotline (since the author felt the need of a romance) than with Lila, or that he shouldn't ever fall in love with anyone else than Dolores. It sounds so... Insane. I can't see how someone can have any kind of shipping-affection for his "sick" relationship with Dolores. It was, for me, a completely heartbroken arc.

While watching this new season, actually, it made me almost warmly happy, as a Five fan, to see him having someone to take care of him in hard times like that. Last time he didn't have it. They loved each other, they constructed this love and even if it was constructed under a refuge, extremely vulnerable situation, as much as even if it was constructed over a hopeless and trust-breaking decision towards their loved Diego, it doesn't make it less real and beautiful.

They aren't bad people. They aren't cheaters. They were desperate.

I'm happy they found love in each other. They were victims but managed to construct a beautiful relationship to survive and it doesn't make them love less Diego, as a brother or as a lover.

Of course it breaks completely my heart that Diego and Five died without making peace, but while watching not even for a moment I considered that they stopped loving each other. They're brothers, they've went through a lot.

They were doing so fine getting along together since they came back from the apocalypse.... There's no way it would "destroy" and "erase" (terms used by some fans) all the progress that's been made... I think it would be a very shallow interpretation of their relationship and a very futile interpretation of the events. Some of the public is seeing the situation as if Five slept with his wife since the beginning, not as if he had felt in love with her in a very apocaliptical and hopeless situation.

It's essential to remember that nothing said romantic happened for six years. It turned this way only after they having practically given up hope of returning home, so exhausted they were.

I really don't think that such a desperate and lonely situation would erase all the love and dedication Diego have for Five (and Five has no reasons to stop feeling it for Diego too, obviously). Diego was totally the sweetest during this season, he did his best, but Five did too... Now they fought but it doesn't mean their relationship would be forever broken. They were both stressed out, of course, it was a sensitive situation. But, i don't think it would... However with an apocalypse going on, they just didn't have enough time.

Diego was clearly open to understand Lila better, so I really doubt he wouldn't try to do the same with Five. But, again, they were both heart broken, hot headed and with no time. It's sad and it affect them, but "destroy and erase" are very heavy terms and inconsistent with the context of their relationships.

I don't know. I don't know how to conclude this analysis. I just… Am sorry. I honestly feel lucky to have been able to experience Diego, Lila and Five, but I'm so sorry that I couldn't see these three hearts find peace in their complicated loves, even during their final moments. These are three very beautiful love relationships that grew up tangled up and that, unfortunately, couldn't unfold in time to hurt less their lovers.

It felt wonderful and desolate. I hope more people can feel it like i did.

[sorcave]

After spending some time thinking about Peter Pettigrew, I’ve realized there’s a huge disconnect between how he’s portrayed in canon and how the fandom—especially within Marauders fanon—handles him. Let me preface this by saying, I get it. The Marauders era is filled with beloved, tragic characters like Sirius, Remus, and James, who are all charismatic in their own ways. It’s easy to frame Peter as the villain, the weak link in the group, because, well, he is the one who betrays them. But I can’t help feeling like fanon’s interpretation of him has become deeply flawed and even unfair in its simplification of his character.

Peter Pettigrew, as written in the books, is actually a much more complex figure than the rat-betrayer caricature that fanon often makes him out to be. He’s not some mustache-twirling villain, nor is he just a pathetic hanger-on who was lucky to be in the Marauders’ circle. If you really pay attention to the way his character is written, he’s someone who’s constantly underestimated by the people around him, including the very friends he ends up betraying. He’s not powerful in the traditional sense, but his cunning is what allows him to survive the chaos of two wizarding wars. He’s not a mastermind, sure, but he’s resourceful in a way that deserves more recognition than he gets. Canonically, it’s clear that he isn’t just bumbling around until he stumbles into Voldemort’s arms—he’s making calculated choices, and we need to give those choices the weight they deserve.

This brings me to why I think fanon’s insistence on reducing Peter to a one-dimensional villain is so misguided. There's this huge trend in Marauders fandom where Peter is either villainized beyond recognition or, worse, completely written out of the story. He’s often replaced in fanon with a random “better” Marauder, or he’s ignored entirely, as if his betrayal somehow disqualifies him from being part of the story. And here’s the thing: canon compliance isn’t a crime! In fact, canon gives us a far more interesting story. The tragedy of Peter’s betrayal is that he was their friend—he shared their dorm, their secrets, and their history. His actions were not driven by some inherent evil but by fear, survival instincts, and yes, cowardice. It’s a much richer narrative than reducing him to a monster.

In the fandom, there’s often this hyperfocus on moral purity when it comes to the Marauders, especially when it comes to ships and rewriting dynamics. Peter, however, disrupts that neat narrative, so fanon tries to erase him to preserve the integrity of the fan-created relationships. But that oversimplifies everything. Why should we villainize people for sticking to canon when canon is, arguably, what makes the Marauders’ story so compelling in the first place? The fall of the Marauders—this group of young, talented, promising boys—hinges on Peter’s betrayal. You can't just ignore that without losing a fundamental piece of what makes their story so tragic. He’s not a random character you can swap out. He’s the pivot point.

Peter’s character also raises some interesting discussions about how we view heroism and villainy in fandom spaces. For instance, we’re often quick to forgive other characters—Sirius, for all his bravado, is reckless and cruel to people like Snape, but we don’t hold it against him in the same way. We empathize with his trauma, his tragic backstory. So why is it that Peter, who is also a product of his circumstances, is written off? He wasn’t born evil; he was shaped by the same war that shaped all of them, but his path led him to make different choices. There’s something so fascinating about exploring how someone who was once a friend could betray everything. It’s a conversation about human flaws, not just villainy.

And yes, in a world full of Marauders fan content, it’s fine to like your AUs or write your fix-its. But let’s not pretend that sticking to canon, and appreciating Peter for the complex character he is, is somehow less valid. The fandom would benefit from looking at Peter as more than just “the betrayer” and instead as someone who, like everyone else in the story, is a deeply flawed person whose mistakes have devastating consequences. That makes the story richer, more painful, and ultimately, more meaningful.

forgive me for the ramble but Im going insane with my term paper and my thesis, unfortunately I've been diving too deep into the marauders again

[fitzjamesbulletwound]

welcome to my jirv character study and thank you in advance for reading/commenting/liking/anything, if you interact with this at all i love you <3 

i don’t want to spend too much time on an intro but what i will say is that overall, what i found so fascinating and tragic about jirv as a character is that throughout the story he and his actions are defined by what he denies about himself and how he subsequently closes himself off from others, and the tragedy of this being that once they abandon the ships he, like many of the other characters, begins to allow parts of himself to come to the surface that we haven’t seen before, and of course the saddest part of this is that for jirv it begins to happen only days, hours, minutes before his death. oh one note- i refer to him as “john” and “jirv” throughout most of this so hopefully that’s not confusing lol. 

episode 1/first impressions- the first time we see jirv is in the chinese sniper story dinner scene and both in this first scene and the early episodes in general there’s a lot to be seen regarding his relationship with crozier in particular and of course just his general pattern of behavior and what it implies about his state of mind. at the dinner scene he appears prim, maybe a little uptight, a bit of that upper class-ness that i think is evident in a lot of the officers in the early eps. it’s also really interesting seeing how he reacts to crozier in this first scene- i do think that jirv’s relationship with crozier is similar to ned’s in the sense that he very much wants to please crozier but he is also somewhat derisive in his reactions to crozier’s more explosive moments. when he interrupts fitzjames at dinner jirv looks down in embarrassment and is clearly uncomfortable with crozier’s behavior. 

this spills over into the ice talk scene where jirv again reacts in embarrassment to crozier borderline insulting franklin (“you nearly starved, not all of your men survived”)- he was listening to crozier with rapt attention but when he says this he instantly hangs his head in shame and you can see him fidgeting in the background. 

and jirv’s overall depiction in this scene is so interesting to me because there’s a certain almost childlike innocence that characterizes him in his ep 1 scenes (i also have to add that there are quite a few songs on the davechella playlist that seem to explore and make reference to jirv’s childhood which i think is significant but anyway)- we make a lot of jokes about him basically not being allowed to sit at the grown up table but i wonder if the purpose of this was more to symbolize his isolation from the other men, including his fellow officers, due to his own issues of denial and repression; that is to say- denying parts of yourself also denies you the joy or even the routine comfort of human connection, of belonging. but another part of this characterization in the first ep is that it’s in such contrast to how we see jirv in his later and arguably most memorable scenes; in ep 1 i don’t have any other words for it- he’s cute! he looks innocent! and i think they meant for him to come across that way! but later on what we largely see is his anger and although i will make the argument that jirv uses anger to mask other more complicated (to him) emotions, it’s such a difference from what we see in the first ep. it’s almost a case too of meekness vs. righteousness in a religious sense as well- the two sides that we see of jirv at different moments in the story. 

on to episode 2 and THE orlop scene. one of the first thing i noticed with this scene is  how jirv’s greatcoat fits him- it makes him look almost like a priest and i just love how the costuming is used in the show to convey personality and mannerisms ahhhh.

this scene was also such a great study in jirv/ronan’s microexpressions and what they reveal about him- from this moment on, we can see that jirv spends a lot of time hiding fear with anger, and in this particular case using it to hide the paralyzing shock of knowledge- jirv knew exactly what he was hearing immediately and it froze him in place. what really surprised him here i think is that it was someone he knew- when billy comes out and jirv asks “what are you doing down here?” it is a rationalization- he KNOWS billy isn’t meant to be down there and he knows exactly what it is he was doing. 

and jirv remains frozen in place to the point where he’s not even doing his nervous fingers compulsion that i noticed he does a lot in stressful circumstances (essentially rubbing his fingers together) and the look of absolute fear that comes across his face when he sees it’s hickey with billy- i’m skipping ahead (kinda) here but this makes me think of their (chronological) first scene, where you can tell that there is something that jirv recognizes in hickey- not just that something is off with him, but i do think that on their first meeting hickey really elicited some feelings in jirv that he wasn’t willing to confront and that that feeling lingered for the rest of the expedition. but back to the scene at hand- jirv can’t look at hickey and can’t take another step forward and can’t even address him directly in that moment and the only time he looks at him is when hickey’s back is turned. i think for jirv this whole scenario just really drove home something that was already in him, something he doesn’t allow himself to think of but that he is forced to contend with in this moment. 

overall the scene of him catching billy and hickey shows the reaction of a man who knew immediately what he was walking into because it lives in his heart and in his body no matter how much he denies it, and he masks the fear of his own reaction with anger because the feelings that come up are ones he can’t acknowledge to himself; he can’t meet hickey’s eyes because to meet them would be to meet his own nature and confront everything that comes with that. and later once jirv has left when hickey says that he is a “man afraid of chaos” and refers to there being “worse things than being lashed”, he could be referring to jirv’s denial in both cases (i don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to say that hickey likely clocked jirv early on) 

this is a very jirv/hickey heavy episode but the next significant jirv moment we get is the scene where hickey is drinking with crozier and jirv comes in to tell him about the lead parties returning- he certainly displays nervous body language when addressing crozier- slightly higher pitched voice, his nervous fingers thing he does- but i think what clearly has him the most freaked out here is hickey’s presence. i really thought about this because even in the context of what jirv just saw, he has no reason to fear hickey in the slightest; it was jirv that caught hickey, not the other way around, although to jirv i’m sure it may still feel that way. hickey poses no actual threat to him beyond the effect he has on him and hickey knows it; that’s why he smirks at jirv’s reaction. the only way this really makes sense to me is if jirv’s fear is due to his own internalized shit because truly what does he have to fear from hickey? what could hickey possibly threaten him with? if anything, hickey should be afraid of jirv telling crozier what he saw but he knows he won’t tell and he knows why i think. what could he do to john besides make him understand himself in ways he’s terrified of? and of course i mean that in the sense of what we know about hickey up to this point in the story and not yet knowing what he is capable of in later episodes. but this is all to say that jirv’s fear here is 100% due to his feelings about hickey and nothing else. 

this scene is also another great example of him using anger to cover his apprehension- he forces himself to meet hickey’s eyes once crozier has walked away and the best way i can describe what happens is that there is a tension in that look. it’s one thing to be religious and angry and judgmental about sodomy on the ships but it’s another thing to be terrified of the mere presence of one single gay person, to say nothing of how hard it was for him to even look at him! 

and on to episode 3! what i realized when watching this episode through the jirv lens is that in almost every scene we see him in leading up to his confrontation with hickey, it’s fairly evident that he is thinking of that very moment and how to go about it (i think what sent him over the edge was billy coming to him and everything that he told him) and that’s how i want to canonically prove that jirv was thinking of gay sex during the before breakfast crozier/lieutenants meeting scene when he’s just zoning out lol. 

another thing i noticed about this scene is that it’s the first of a few where jirv is present when potential interactions with the netsilik people are being discussed. edward’s colonialist attitudes and assumptions about them that he expresses in this scene are foreshadowing for the reaction to the false story that hickey tells about jirv’s death, that ned and hodge both buy into in their grief for jirv but also in their racist views. that whole scene is actually foreshadowing for all 3 of them when jirv dies.

the next time we see jirv is when hickey sees billy go into his cabin. and the way he looks to hickey nervously not once but twice- this is i believe his nervousness and contemplation coming forward as he is still contemplating speaking to hickey, or at he very least thinking about what he walked in on. 

and finally we do get the jirv/hickey confrontation scene- when jirv is walking down the little ramp to find hickey you can hear him take a big deep breath, definitely indicative of his nerves in going to speak to hickey. and again we see that he can’t make direct eye contact with hickey when hickey says he was hoping they’d meet. i also love the addition of the AB in the background saying “mind the grease sir” right after this- really speaks to the way john thinks of hickey in this moment- and of himself as well. 

something i really thought about in this scene is jirv’s use of the term “devious seducer” and the more i thought about it the more it made me think… those words sound way less like something that billy would say vs sounding exactly like something that jirv would say, especially since his use of the term, regardless of who really said it, absolutely refers to how hickey makes him feel as much as it refers to what billy allegedly said about him. 

 jirv really is a deer in headlights when he finally brings himself to look at hickey and address him directly; even the way he says “please” is so pitiful and you can tell hickey is surprised that the conversation went beyond hickey thanking him for his help. the script notes that john is “usually a shy man” and that he “isn’t used to this kind of candor” but that this “may be the most courageous thing he’s ever done”- i think all of these are interesting in the context of what is being discussed as well given what we know about jirv’s sexuality and how he handles it- this wasn’t just difficult for him because he’s withdrawn, it was difficult for him because of the subject at hand specifically. 

another phrasing of note here is when he tells hickey “though it benefitted you as a sin in itself i’m sure” because here jirv is basically accusing hickey not only of the “sin” of sodomy, but the sin of enjoying it. i can only imagine that when he has sexual thoughts or urges towards men jirv convinces himself that if he doesn’t like it, doesn’t indulge in it, doesn’t entertain it, then somehow it doesn’t “count”. 

he takes a huge shaky breath before he says “how you pressed him into service” because this is the closest he’s come to picturing that and perhaps even imagining it for himself- he can barely get the words out. and when a few moments later he starts in with the whole “turn your wolf’s ear to me” speech, we can really see some actual anger coming out- i do think he is angry with hickey but more so i think he is angry with himself, made even more significant considering what i believe he was just thinking about. he is projecting like crazy in this entire scene; much like the future lashing, this whole chastisement is as much meant for jirv to himself as it is to hickey. 

and in regards to the “watercolours” advice- to me, there has never been a doubt in my mind that he is speaking from experience here, that these are all methods he’s employed to avoid the temptations of his own mind; the way this part is shot is almost humorous, and not just because we can see hickey start to try not to laugh. it just feels like such a wink nudge to the audience as if to say “yeah clearly jirv has tried all of these because he’s had many instances of having these thoughts himself”. his breathing gets shallow again as he discusses it and he starts to lose that anger and become anxious and unable to meet hickey’s eyes again. 

however, all that anger comes back when he says “your crisis is an opportunity for you to repair yourself”, which i think is such an excellent line because as the viewer, we KNOW that hickey is in no way having a crisis about his sexuality; he is not ashamed of himself at all and even the threat of punishment isn’t enough for him to consider not being who he is and doing what he wants. we do know though (partially through the power of jirvchella) that john IS and has been having a crisis about his sexuality and that again these words, this anger is more for himself than it is for hickey. and finally with this scene- i love the zoom out that shows how close they are as they speak, how there’s no one else around. despite his purpose jirv ends up sharing this intimate moment with hickey that is caged in suggestion and implication and really shows us how jirv feels about himself and what he keeps secret. 

finally, this isn’t a jirv scene persay but i do find it interesting the way hickey and billy discuss him later, especially when billy refers to jirv “forgetting the whole thing as he assuredly wants to”- i think it makes sense that both billy and hickey would have at least suspicions about why jirv reacted to the whole situation the way he did and honestly who would know better than the two of them? not to mention all the times that hickey mentions watching jirv but that’s a whole other post in itself. 

to episode 4! his first scene in this ep is when they’re discussing tuunbaq after finding strong and evans’s bodies and this is another instance of foreshadowing to jirv eventually meeting the netsilik family, not just because of what they’re discussing but because he’s the most calm and rational in the room regarding the potential involvement of the netsilik

there’s a lot going on when he says “perhaps it wouldn’t be a mystery to the indigenous people here”- he seems very nervous to speak (doing his little nervous hands thing he does) and his use of the term “indigenous” is in stark contrast to the slur and the anger that fitzjames displays a moment later. i do think this shows that jirv is capable of a higher empathy towards the netsilik people than some other characters are and to be honest i’m not interested at all in trying to determine “who’s the best native ally in the terror” because the true act of hubris that they are all committing is the colonial violence and destruction inherent in their quest in the first place. BUT i do think it’s worth examining and thinking about who displays the most respect for the native people and why and ultimately how that plays out for them. and i mean it didn’t stop jirv (or goodsir) from dying but i think it says a lot about his beliefs and his nature. due to his extreme religious beliefs i think it would’ve been easy to depict jirv as being dismissive of any cultural or religious beliefs of the netsilik but instead he openly suggests that they simply ask them about tuunbaq. i also think it’s interesting that he accepts the reality put before him that tuubaq is a supernatural force, especially considering his later “god doesn’t grant us ghosts” bullshit. another source of religious conflict for jirv.

i don’t really get why jirv stomps out of the room after crozier goes to his bunk to have his depression flashback but it does look like jirv may be a bit disturbed and frustrated by the implication of bringing silna in for questioning given how aggressive fitzjames was about it and i certainly don’t think that or what hickey did was what jirv intended when he said that they should ask the indigenous people about tuunbaq. 

when all hell breaks loose and everyone is clamoring to get above deck in the hallway you can hear crozier say “irving, irving get in there (up there?) and help us” but jirv is frozen in fear; even before crozier yells at him he is shrinking against the wall and i think this comes down to a matter of experience or lack thereof that some of the officers, including jirv, seem to display in moments of peril (ned’s panic when tuunbaq attacks in ep 8, hodge not being able to make a rational decision when he discovers jirv has been killed, etc). 

once he’s above deck with crozier though, jirv being scared does actually seem to turn to real anger once he assesses the situation. he repeats crozier’s order for everyone to get on their knees and walks forward with him but while he does appear to be genuinely mad at what has happened, i think it’s worth noting that jirv only seems comfortable with taking action when he’s following someone else’s example. he seems terrified to ever act on his own unless he really hypes himself up to do it (confronting hickey, scene with manson). he has an issue making his own choices based on his own gut feelings or readings of a situation and prefers to let others lead and set the tone which can again be linked back to the denial he carries within himself. he really is a man of inaction.

i also caught him staring at hickey shortly before crozier dismisses everyone and they pass close by one another but by that point jirv has averted his eyes once again

and okay what i want to say about the lashing scene up front is that i don’t think that jirv told crozier about hickey and billy- i think crozier’s use of the term “dirtiness” is 1) crozier being a prick because he’s mad and he wants to humiliate hickey and 2) more in line with a section if the articles that refers to “swearing, drunkenness, scandalous actions” etc and mentions “uncleanness” specifically; there’s a whole separate article that refers to sodomy and if that was part of what hickey was being punished for, i think crozier would’ve just said that. and this is to say that jirv won’t look at hickey when hickey glares at him here for the same reason he always can’t, although in this instance i do think there’s a degree of guilt there too. hickey is about to experience something horrible and jirv feels like it’s something that he himself deserves as well and i believe this is why he forces himself to watch hickey the entire time once the lashing properly starts. he is punishing himself as much as he is forcing himself to witness hickey’s punishment. it’s a private warning and internal lashing that he does to himself. 

some details of this scene- there’s that one infamous pan to him, billy, and jop and i know we focus a lot on the jop flinch but jirv flinches pretty hard here too and unlike billy and jop he doesn’t look away even as his expression gets more and more disturbed (he’s displaying a lot of his typical signs of distress- wide eyes, mouth falling open). of every significant reaction we see to hickey’s lashing, jirv is the only one to not look away. the only time he does he is looking in shock at johnson as he delivers some of the heaviest blows toward the end of the lashing but right after he goes back to watching hickey.

and the final jirv scene of the episode is when he goes to see to crozier and like it’s not a super significant jirv scene but i just want to point out that the terror does storytelling with a lot of different small elements and one of them is footsteps- they are often used to convey mood and tone of specific characters and in this instance, jirv approaches the room slowly where usually we can see and hear him walking pretty briskly and i love how that conveys his mood in this moment post lashing. 

but moving on to episode 5- he only has one really important scene in this ep besides being mostly in the background of some others and that’s the scene with manson. this scene shows a very different jirv than the one we’ve seen up to this point but i think there are a few reasons why this is the case. he acts flippant and borders on cruelty towards manson and i truthfully don’t want to defend his actions but i think that the reason he behaves this way is because in the story, he has just come off the whole ordeal of confronting hickey but ultimately choosing to spare him and billy and also the kidnapping of silna and the subsequent lashing of hickey; in jirv’s mind this all happened because he wasn’t hard enough on hickey in the beginning. he showed him too much mercy and what came next was a direct result of that. because despite his delivery i think that jirv truly thinks he is helping in both of these scenarios, both with manson and with hickey previously. i’m sure discipline and cruelty are things he privately uses to keep himself in line and besides that it’s classic christian logic- he didn’t do a good enough job at being god’s warrior and because of that bad things happened and people were punished. he’s trying to avoid the same outcome with manson, as misguided as all of his attempts are. 

anyway details- i think in the beginning of the scene we are seeing some real anger from him but i do think this anger is largely aimed at himself, much like in the hickey confrontation scene. the apprehension doesn’t come through until he has to take a big deep breath before he says he’s going to order manson down the ladder in the smallest, meekest voice possible, almost like he’s convincing himself that he’ll do it rather than telling manson he will. he really steels himself to do this and i think it’s very telling that the 2 times we see him overcome his fear of candor to directly confront someone he is much more motivated by his faith than he is by his duty as a lieutenant. 

jirv very cautiously puts his hand directly on manson’s which i think is sooo interesting considering how significant touching is in the terror, especially bare skin to bare skin but anyway- manson only pulls his hand back when jirv touches him, he doesn’t hit him or shove him at all. jirv is just so high strung and scared in this scene that he has a ridiculously high startle response

and then hickey shows up- jirv is already against the wall at this point and hickey doesn’t even look at him but jirv like.. there is no other way to describe this but he arches his back, tips his head back, his eyes even roll into the back of his head. it’s very… interesting to say the least lol (the word i really want to use is erotic but it could just be the hickeyirving demon in my head whispering to me). jirv’s eyes also widen with fear when he watches hickey talk to manson and i think this is partially because of how intimately they are behaving, something that of course would freak jirv out. he looks one more time before deciding to flee rather than continue to try to exert his authority in this situation and i think this just further solidifies the effect that hickey’s mere presence has on him. man it’s been impossible to write this without mentioning hickey a million times but it’s always relevant lol. 

aaand that brings us to episode 6! i really like the opening scene with jirv at the meeting because we get a little glimpse into his role as an officer and also the way he clings to order and routines in order to feel in control (all an illusion of course given what we know about the tins). but i think we can also conclude that john has been privy to just how fucked they all are in regards to their rations for a while as he is the one in charge of keeping track of them. 

i’m usually too busy laughing at hodge’s reaction when jirv mentions the christmas pudding they made but i noticed this time around that jirv gives him a pretty irritated look and i think this is because he’s trying to emphasize “hey we have almost none of this left and that’s kind of alarming”. jirv has had to shoulder the burden of keeping track of the tins for the entire expedition and i imagine that put quite a strain on him, especially when they started overwintering. 

he starts doing his little nervous fingers when he’s telling fitzjames when they’ll run out of food ugh and when fitzjames kinda tells him off for mentioning the number of men i feel like he doesn’t understand that jirv KNOWS that between the dwindling rations and the lemon juice no longer protecting against scurvy, jirv fully knows that more people are likely to die regardless of whether tuunbaq is around or not 

he does look genuinely grateful for the encouraging words from fitzjames a few minutes later though; he almost looks surprised but he still nods and it’s very similar to how he looks at crozier later during his speech at carnival. again i just think jirv is very much a follower and he greatly values reassurance from those in power. 

on to carnivale itself- it’s so funny to me how shocked crozier and jop look when they realize who’s singing lol. just knowing what jirv is like normally and then seeing him like that is jarring in a pleasant way even for us as the viewer- and of course i can’t mention this scene without the note from the script: “he’s had too much to drink already, relaxing his defenses”. i don’t want to spend too much time on this because i feel like it’s been talked about enough but the symbolism of jirv, drunk and inhibitions lowered, singing a song about a popular area for gay cruising is very well done. it sounds heavy handed typed out like that but it really isn’t in the scene itself! it’s just nice to see him be a part of the group and be happy and have fun, things he usually cuts himself off from no doubt because of what he’s in denial about.

jirv removing his halo when crozier asks them to remove their masks- there has been so much said about the symbolism of this and one thing i want to add is that it goes hand in hand with his actions of drinking, letting loose, singing that specific song, etc in terms of removing the mask of his faith that he uses to lie to himself and deny himself the truth of who he is. the halo being his mask that he removes (along with the eventual loss of his wings in the fire) is such a great detail ahhh i love it 

the third and final scene of encounters with the netsilik being mentioned while jirv is on screen is when we can see jirv listening with rapt attention to crozier as he tells the men that the netsilik are good people who will help them- this is the ultimate foreshadowing to what happens with him in the next episode

the fire- i’m not going to go blow by blow but of course we can see jirv a lot during the fire scene- when stanley is burning he’s shouting for help trying to get blankets brought forward to put out the fire, and he can be seen ushering people out when fitzjames tells everyone to move calmly to the ice. after this, most of the times i can find jirv in the crowd he has shut down and seems frozen in place at various points. towards the end of the fire sequence i lose him entirely until we see him running out without his wings. this is a stretch but i think that little scene of him pulling on his wing ropes may have been him trying to pull them off because the next time we see him he doesn’t have them on. 

and going back to the symbolism of him losing his halo and his wings at carnival- not only does he lose them, he loses them in a fiery inferno… crazy. 

and here we are at episode 7. i will say that i’m going to do some analysis of eps 8 and 9 as well because i think they’re important to jirv’s characterization and also a theory i have about something that may have happened in the aftermath of his death. buuuut let’s get into episode 7

idk if i’ll remember to put the link in but if not someone pointed out a few weeks ago that jirv can be seen watching the men, specifically the future mutineers, packing up the boats to prepare for the march south. this was so intriguing to me because there’s no way that didn’t look suspicious to him but again it’s likely that he was too afraid of hickey to intervene or get closer. 

john giving the order “forward men” truly just makes me sick for so many reasons… he is sending them all forward to their deaths! of which his will be one of the first! and the catalyst for the ultimate breakdown of the entire camp! ugh! 

anyway on to the jop promotion scene- i feel so bad for jirv in this moment because he’s essentially learning that despite the fact that he has done everything he can to weed out the rotten tins and keep track of their provisions, they have always been a source of danger and death for the men and we can really see his shock and despair here. and i’m sure he felt so much guilt for it as well even though of course there’s nothing he could have done and no way he could’ve known. we can also hear the anxiety in his voice when he asks crozier what they will do if they can’t find any game. 

ahhh and the nedving thigh grab scene- i would be remiss not to involve this because i DO think that it’s further evidence of jirv’s gayness of course. jirv is disassociating, thinking of the implications of what they’ve just been told, and when ned puts his hand on him he fully jumps; his hands jerk from the table where they were resting. he makes brief eye contact with ned and then stares off into the distance. it also looks like he’s breathing heavier. not a ton of analysis i want to do here that i haven’t already but i think his reaction is proof enough that that touch affected him very deeply. 

moving on though- jirv’s reaction to the jop promotion scene is almost as happy as ned’s- it’s similar in the sense that we never (excepting carnival) see him so happy and i think this is because leaving the ship opened him to connection and belonging and letting himself be a part of moments with other people. it really is so so tragic and devastating to me- in this episode jirv just really seems on the cusp of becoming, letting go, days, hours before his death. he is experiencing joy, even permitting hickey’s proximity in the upcoming scene (he doesn’t argue or seem too uncomfortable with hickey accompanying him and farr) which is an interesting departure from his previous attitude towards him. and of course his interaction with the netsilik family but now i’m getting ahead of myself. 

so okay here we go- final scenes. i do think jirv suggests splitting up to cover more ground because he knows how dire the situation is and how desperately they need to find food 

i’ve made a post about his before but there are two moments of halo imagery that get used with jirv after carnival and this is the first- when he’s checking their position the sun comes into focus right over his head, haloing his face in the exact spot where he’s going to die. ugh. 

he does hesitate very slightly when he realizes hickey will be with him but he doesn’t fight it and he seems more resigned to it (comfortable may be too strong of a word at this point but it’s possible). given he has spent most of the story avoiding even looking at hickey i think this is an important detail

ugh the way he takes off his hat both as a sign of respect before he goes to speak to the netsilik family but also as another stripping of his rank, a reducing to just himself, just john. and he looks so young and vulnerable… the way he first introduces himself with his full name and title and then strips it down to “john… i’m john”. he immediately realizes he can identify himself as a friend and in a less formal way, he leaves that piece of him behind and shows his vulnerability and humanity in a plea for help but also for connection. he is braver here than he has ever been and i don’t think he even realizes it. both the first time and the last time he says “john” he is holding his hand to his chest right where hickey will stab him.

and it all continues to crumble away as he calls hickey and farr, but most significantly hickey, his “friends” there is such a desperation when he says “food?” and wow just. there are a lot of face journeys and expressions in this show that have stuck with me ever since i first saw them and jirv’s when he eats the seal meat offered to him is one of them- from the second it touches his lips he looks like he is holding back tears- the longing and gratitude in his eyes is so evident. this act of communion that he receives from a complete stranger, someone who he has no doubt been taught most of his life to hate and distrust, yet they offered him this simple gift, the kindness of feeding him without question. not only that but i think it’s significant that he’s offered a second piece as well, one that he takes. and when he thanks koveyook it’s in a tone that suggests he doesn’t believe that he deserves it but that he is thankful for it nonetheless

he very deliberately reaches out with his hand (the ungloved one!) to touch koveyook in gratitude- all other points of touch we’ve seen with jirv have been cast in a negative light besides him shaking jopson’s hand (god hand touching becomes sooooooooo interesting in ep 7 and beyond, fitzier, joplittle, this scene, etc but that’s a post for another time)- but touch averse (to me) jirv deliberately takes this action in gratitude

and then the telescope… the telescope. his most prized possession, showing how precious koveyook’s gift to him was that he was compelled to offer it in thanks. they weren’t demanding anything from him, he just wanted to give them something in return and he is delighted to do so

he doesn’t even have time to put his glove back on before he dies which becomes significant in a sec, bear with me here. okay let’s talk about jirv calling hickey’s name 3 times before hickey betrays him- it’s not quite the same dynamics as peter denying jesus but interesting nonetheless… jirv’s first “hickey” is angry, the second is inquisitive, the third is almost pleading… and given dave’s whole “he sees what he thinks might essentially be fucking and he turns forward to either stop it or touch it”- which of course implies i think that even jirv himself didn’t know which and wouldn’t have until he actually found himself in the situation if indeed that was what was actually happening- but that’s just one of the most subtle insane ways to show jirv’s queerness in the story. and god like he literally grabs his shoulder, not even aggressively, almost like… questioningly? and although it would’ve been easier for him to touch hickey’s shoulder with his gloved right hand, he specifically reaches out to him with his ungloved, bare left hand?? actually i just rewatched it and not only that but he touches his bare shoulder too. wow. 

the utter fucking shock on jirv’s face when hickey stabs him and the way he looks up at him through his lashes and reaches one hand up between his legs after he’s fallen back and hickey’s crouching over him? is very crazy and i want to talk about how insanely erotic this scene is another time because that’s a whole thing in and of itself but yeah. (okay it’ll probably come up a little later in this paragraph but i digress). the way jirv struggles so hard to breathe just kills me. and the music- one of his happiest moments sickeningly twisted around his brutal death but also a callback to the inherent sexuality and gayness of the whole thing. jirv spends most of the show directly avoiding contact with hickey, not even eye contact, yet he dies with hickey directly in front of him, penetrating him, covering his mouth, and jirv holds his gaze the entire time. i feel like in a way this symbolically shows that jirv was facing whatever it was inside himself that hickey elicited in his final moments, mixed with the shock and rage that we can see in his face too. at first he leans forward, we can see the anger, then he lies back, accepting, accepting and then the next shot he heaves twice with his whole body trying to fight it but i think this is because this is the moment where hickey finally looks back at him where before he was looking away almost in impatience for it to all be over with. how many times i wonder did they picture each other in these exact positions in a sexual context, only to play it out finally in this moment as jirv dies underneath hickey (much like he might’ve felt like he was doing if he had ever acted on his urges). 

and this flashback scene it is everything; it is truly everything to me. we can see in jirv’s face that he can sense almost like a gut feeling that there is something off about hickey but i also think that what he is reacting to the feelings within himself that arise- ugh his little nervous hands, the lower lip falling open as it does with him, the way he looks hickey up and down as hickey does too when jirv walks away- i’m sorry i know this is my solving magnum opus but there was an attraction there- however fucked up and in denial there absolutely was. like the way jirv just walks away without responding too- he was nervous! he didn’t know what to think! this whole expedition for him started and ended with what came to the surface for him with hickey and it’s so so devastating.

anyway rip my beautiful angel jirv i love you forever <3

but i do want to point out a few things from eps 8 and 9 that again i think are important to jirv as a character and his journey- namely the grief that ned and hodge feel for him and a few other things concerning the aftermath of his death: 

ugh man… ned and hodge’s grief at jirv’s death gets harder to watch every time- in the tent hodge’s eyes are red from crying and it’s because he had to be the one to bring jirv’s body back, he saw everything that was done to him and he had to be the one to bring him to where he would rest. and edward is trying his best to keep it together for hodge, patting him on the shoulder and backing up his story but once he is out of george’s line of sight we can see him start to cry as well :( they loved him and of course they both blame themselves for what happened to him

okay a few notes about john’s body- in the script it mentions that he is partially scalped and that it looks like someone “got bored” or “lost interest” part way through doing it but what i fully realized here is that jirv’s scalping literally looks like a fucked up halo… and ugh his little cross around his neck.. he looks so tiny idk just like with the goodsir death scene in ep 10 there’s just something so awful about seeing them laid out naked like that when we spend the whole show seeing them bundled up and in uniform. a final stripping of rank and identity.

moving on, and these will be a little rapid fire because i’m mostly trying to document the final movements of jirv’s body and his clothing- the reason collins’ hands are shaking when he goes to the medical tent is because he can see jirv’s bloody clothes folded up on the table across from him - this is from the script: “as he applies the salve, collins’ hands tremble constantly. someone has folded and stacked up lt. irving’s clothes on a table there. collins can see a few knife cuts in the coat.” also jirv’s body is just there in the tent while bridgens and peglar talk about his scurvy.

jirv’s telescope is laying by the netsilik girl when silna goes to adjust her leg…… she was playing with it when she was murdered

i’ve made this post before on its own but it absolutely makes me sick how jirv didn’t even get to keep and take to the grave with him the final kindness that was ever done for him in his life because they had to cut upon his stomach and mutilate him further to learn the truth of his death. and to convince the men who are grieving him most that it was actually hickey that killed him.

when we can hear edward saying terror camp is clear from outside the medical tent, goodsir is finishing up sewing up john’s body again.

the wording when edward is reading out the charges against hickey and sol- when he calls the acts of sedition and mutinous designs “more pernicious” than the act of murdering jirv (and farr but this ain’t about him) it’s just so alarming- the suggestion that stirring up mutiny is worse than brutally murdering your fellow shipmates. i think this just makes the lack of proper mourning for jirv feel even worse

i believe the next time we see his body is when bridgens is trying to protect one of this patients in the medical tent- i don’t think we specifically see it brought out to be burnt with the men who are killed by tuunbaq but i do think that must have been what happened, idk what else they could’ve done at that point. but it makes me sad that we don’t know for certain

but anyway- tozer’s reaction to hearing about how jirv died and seeing the evidence against hickey- i’ll get more into this in my solving post but i think this was the beginning of the end of sol’s faith in hickey 

and then at the end we have hickey going to the med tent first, presumably to look for goodsir which is where he finds jirv’s clothes, and takes his coat. i wonder if this was a crime of opportunity or if he was determined to take a trophy from his murder of jirv. i could see it going either way for hickey tbh.

okay and my final little theory i will leave you with- i posted this in the main tag a long time ago when i first got back on tumblr but i didn’t word it very well and i wasn’t very confident in my ability to articulate my thoughts but now y’all are going to hear me lol (that is if you made it this far): in the scene where hickey is talking to hodge about the tins and turning to cannibalism given what they know about them, we can see sol listening closely but not participating in the conversation. and then comes the moment where sol realizes that hickey is wearing jirv’s coat; when the wind blows he can see the stab marks. there isn’t anything said about jirv in this scene, nor his death, but obviously we can see sol starting to creep out of his denial that hickey lied to him and killed one of their fellow crew members. what i can’t stop thinking about though is the context of the conversation in which this discovery takes places- hickey is talking about eating human flesh to live now. the parts of jirv that were cut off- pieces of flesh, his fingers, etc… i really wonder if they were eaten by hickey. he was already thinking about cannibalism before the actual mutiny- he deliberately wanted to bring goodsir and diggle when they split from the group, so i don’t think it’s a huge stretch to believe that he would’ve done that to jirv’s body after mutilating him. and i just don’t think anything in the terror is a coincidence, so the fact that we see sol putting the pieces together of jirv’s death as hickey is talking about cannibalism seems too on the nose to ignore or at least consider but i would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this! 

anyway if you made it to the end of this thank you for reading and for being insane about this stupid little gay freak with me <3 sol deep dive is incoming followed by solving i promise!!!! 

[stainedglassthreads]

I feel like the four leads of Deltarune--Kris, Susie, Ralsei, and Noelle-are just. Somehow two different levels of queer-coded.

(Edit: Just to be clear: not saying any of this to disparage or insult shippers of Kralsei, Suselle, or Kriselle, I've just seen a lot of cool analysis about tropes, romance, and lack of choice in Deltarune and wanted to chime in with some of my own thoughts. If you ship any of those ships in Deltarune--fantastic! May you find a lot of content precisely to your taste.)

Like. On the one hand, if you're looking at tropes, they are very neatly set up into two romantic partnerships. Noelle is very blatantly interested in Susie, and Ralsei's feelings for Kris are often portrayed similarly. On a surface level, both pairings appear very clear. Noelle is a girl in love with another girl, while Ralsei is a very effeminate boy in love with a teen who doesn't appear to use pronouns. And a big deal isn't made of either pairing, there's nothing really in the way of Suselle or Kralsei on a societal level we've encountered so far. At least in terms of gender and sexuality. But if you look a little closer, it's kind of...'these are a very straight idea of queer ships', y'know?

Noelle and Susie are both girls, but one is very effeminately coded, anxious, uses magic, and is more traditionally cute, while they other is crass, crude, intimidating, and physically strong. Ralsei and Kris are gender-noncomforming, but Ralsei is a sweet pacifistic healer who bakes cakes while Kris uses a sword, and keeps being mistaken for a boy by much of Youtube and Reddit. The active one and the passive one, the fighter and the mage, the one with cute hobbies and the one who eats moss, the one in pants and the one in a dress.

And here, I start thinking of some posts I've seen analyzing how, in Deltarune, romance is used to explore how Kris doesn't really get choices. Kris has been cast as the leader and knight, and Ralsei has been cast as the healer and Princess, even if he is a boy. The leader often ends up with the healer. The knight often gets the princess as a happy ending. But Kris doesn't seem to like this! Their reactions to Ralsei are constantly lukewarm at best, and that's not getting into how Ralsei seems to be in love with his idea of Kris, while being very. Asriel-coded, who the game describes often as Kris' brother, in sharp contrast to how ambiguous Chara and Frisk's relationships with the Dreemurrs were.

If we and Kris reject Ralsei as a love interest, we can a different romantic partner in Noelle...but this choice has a bodycount, traumatizes Noelle, doesn't seem to leave Kris any happier, and it's still a kind of straight-coded ship. Now it's the knight being paired up with the apocalypse maiden, for the doomed codepedent toxic tragedy lovers out there. But it kinda makes sense too, right? If Kralsei is the expected RPG romance, then Kriselle would be the expected romance if there were no Dark World and Ralsei weren't an option. They're childhood friends and neighbors in a small town, their families used to be very close, Rudy is still very fond of Kris. They're even extremely angel/devil coded.

But the most interesting part is. It's implied that there IS someone that Kris is very interested in, either platonically or romantically. It's Susie. Kris never seems frightened by Susie when they're bullied by her, and rejects Noelle's offers to switch seats. They seek comfort from Susie rather than Ralsei after the Spamton fight, they call her their friend when Toriel calls, they share moss with her, they refuse to think about her during Snowgrave when Ralsei prompts them, they make it clear that out of all the people they COULD go to the Carnival with, Susie is the one they'd ACTUALLY want to choose.

And this is the part that drives me crazy. Because while Kris is so tightly controlled by genre and narrative, and those things would usually push them towards Ralsei or Noelle, and Ralsei keeps encouraging Kris to stick to the narrative. Susie is the one who refuses to be bound to the narrative. Susie is the character of Deltarune who is most unapologetically herself--and isn't that a very queer thing, refusing to be anyone but yourself despite everything? She says no thanks to the prophecy, until she comes around to it on her own terms! She makes herself and Ralsei learn to take their own actions, and drags Ralsei off to have fun with him instead of letting Kris choose who to with! She doesn't stay in her box of the damage-dealing fighter, she insists on learning Healing magic, even if she's not particularly skilled at it at first! Even Ralsei is forced to admit that it's wonderful that Susie is Susie, and not anyone else!

I think Kris likes Susie a lot. And part of it may be admiration. That while Kris is controlled by the player and the narrative and the prophecy and humanity and divorce and a dozen things outside their control, Susie refuses to ever be bound by anything. And Kris and Susie together happen to be the two more masculinely-coded party members, the two melee fighters, the two troublemakers. It honestly makes me wonder a little if Susie and Kris might be able to make their own ending beyond the bounds of gender expectations and romance expectations together? It would be cool. And I think it would make Kris very happy to break free like that.

[generalsdiary]

gays are so tragic.

any gay ship, any queer ship in any form of video game, anime, tv show, or movie where they're censored or made by homophobic ppl is so tragic.

the way they yearn to be together, which is shown by actors/voice actors/animators/writers. and, of course, we all grasp at the tiniest crumble, and the fanbases are the ones that recognize them and keep them alive- that is where the couple escapes the constraints, restrictions, and homophobia.

ex. in gi they said they will explore more same-sex couples by labeling them in game as 'best friends'. (kavetham, cynari, etc.)

so, of course, we, fanfic writers, write them as tragic, or even cursed yaoi, and yearning and all the heart-wrenching pieces because there's pain in their existence. they are our escape and something we relate to but we also offer them an escape, making them alive with our funny words and silly au's.

also some honorable mentions of good depictions of queer couples; good omens, shadowhunters (malec), our flag means death, the originals (freelin). (feel free to add more)

also, only pure hatred and disgust at the queerbaiting seen in media (I'm looking at you supernatural). furthermore, gender identities in media are a whole different issue and topic; where is the recognition overall, especially in video games, for enby's and similar?

honorable mention to bg3 for having great body options (trans friendly) and more gender options than the usual f/m.

there's also tragedy in queer characters, who fandoms depict and destroy by ignoring their sexuality, ex. yelena from marvel's black widow who is confirmed asexual. (which pains me as an aroace individual)

thus we write them as tragic and pained because, just like us, they also have to be hidden or censored, many queer ppl cannot come out due to so many varying reasons. sadly, we aren't safe everywhere and have to be careful. media is a nice escape, so I guess we can relate to our sad gays who are so much more like us than we thought at first hand.

dear writers, artists, and creators keep creating art and keep giving them life. we give them air to breathe and the hope that they give us. that is how this relationship with our favorite fictional characters transcends all bounds, we keep each other alive and comfort each other.

this rant was inspired by my mutual commenting on how homosexual my love confessing fic is (here if you're interested).

[explaintome]

Dear Mouthwashing fandom, explain to me, why next to the incredible fan art, I find a fuck ton of shipping content, especially between characters where this is highly problematic? SPOILERS FOR MOUTHWASHING AHEAD CN for talk about sexual abuse, death, suicide & violence

DISCLAIMER: I do not shame the general practice of shipping at all. I am a shipper myself and I think it makes up for a lot of interesting dynamics and narratives outside the canon. Shipping is an important pillar of fandom communities and I am unable to forbid you to do it. HOWEVER, in the case of Mouthwashing I want to talk about what, in my opinion, feels tone-deaf to the themes and the canon of the game. But let me start with a short summary of the game before I get into it.

Mouthwashing is basically a visual novel that takes place on the Tulpar, the last manned cargo ship of the company Pony Express. The crew, consisting of Caption Curly, Co-Captain Jimmy, Nurse Anya, Mechanic Swansea and his intern Daisuke, is confronted with a crash against an asteroid and the consequences following it. The story is told out of order to reveal the truth bit by bit. What caused the crash, what happened and how the crew deals with the time afterward being stuck on the ship. Revealing sexual abuse, tragic backstories, the horrible side effects of late state capitalism and the neglect of people in command towards the people they are responsible for.

To boil it down we have two men who, out of societal misogyny, hurt the only woman on their crew by assaulting her or not acting as they should have in their position of responsibility. All of this would not have happened if Jimmy didn't rape Anya and impregnate her, and if Curly had disciplined Jimmy in a capacity possible on the ship and in Jimmy's position as co-pilot. To be honest, with the amount of automatization the ship has, I don't think they need Jimmy if it is not a case of emergency, but I digress. Jimmy is the perpetrator of the story, but Curly is an accomplice in putting his aim of finding a solution and compromise over punishing his subordinate as he should have.

And now to my actual point: I am a big fan of the game, the narration style and the utter tragedy of 5 people losing their lives in the isolation of space, with their company not giving a shit about them. Otherwise, they might have been rescued much earlier or at all. Or had enough cryo pots in the first place. Or a nurse with experience. Or any amount of better equipment and not the most cheap shit that somehow made it through a resemblance of regulations. There are probably no regulations.

Being a fan I, of course, looked into the hashtags on several social media sites, and between the incredible art and analysis of the game, I quickly found shipping content, and I have no idea why. I have literally no idea how that narrative speaks to you in a way of shipping characters romantically/sexually. Especially three shippings really rub me the wrong way.

ANYA/JIMMY

Are you fucking kidding me? Literally, what is wrong with you shipping a victim with their abuser? There was not one interaction between them, that suggest that there was consent or affection, that Jimmy has any sympathy for Anya. He knows what is going on, he knows that Anya is pregnant and takes no responsibility. Even worse, his idea of FIXING this was to kill everyone, at least himself, to avoid responsibility! Same goes for AUs where she kept the baby and is somehow okay and happy? I get the urge to fix it, but that is not a good fix. There is no good fix if you are pregnant due to rape.

ANYA/CURLY

A lot of argument I hear for that is that "at least Curly is her friend and was nice to her" and if that is your whole foundation of argument, I want to ask what your standards for a relationship are. Please know that you deserve more than the bare minimum. Another question in that context: Is Curly really Anya's friend? His friend was abused and instead of protecting her, he tried to reason and help her abuser! That is not the behavior of a friend! There is no "but Jimmy is his friend too!". If your friend is an abuser and that does not make you stop being their friend....why?

JIMMY/CURLY

It feels like it is a law on the internet, that two men who look at least averagely handsome will be shipped, especially if they have the tiniest of connection to each other. I am not even sure if I would call them friends in the first place. It appears that Jimmy, whatever his bad life before that job was (thanks to the developers for not giving us a backstory), he is still absolutely unsatisfied with that he has. He is jealous of Curly and his position, seeing how quickly he takes on the Captain title after the crash and only realizes far too late how hard the position actually is. Curly on the other hand feels a bit like a people pleaser to me. He probably had pity for Jimmy, took him under his wing to help him? Fix him? Whatever it is, it made him ignore Jimmy's bad side to a fatal degree. I respect the toxic yaoi but are you sure?

TLDR; I am worried about how the practice of shipping developed, from a way to extend the canon, explore queerness in cis/straight dominated media, into a compulsion of where some people can't look at any form of media or constellation of characters without immediately smashing them together like dolls. If you do this, maybe step back for a minute and ask yourself if it is appropriate. On that note, same goes in case you defend Jimmy. Why?

[theclownghoul]

Arcane Season 2 has me messed up and not in a good way

It’s actually breaking my heart that I don’t love this show anymore.

I don’t want to hate it, there’s pieces I love but there’s also pieces I hate. Act l had me in such high hopes and then it stuttered then crashed and burned.

I just feel so disappointed with so many parts of it. Actively angry at others.

There are some moments that I loved that had me feeling the same high as the first season but every time I thought things would develop better they didn’t.

I think I’m only really happy with Ekko and I was worried about him for much of the season. As an Ekko and Jinx shipper I was pleased with most of their story but the way they ended Jinx’s story undermined the importance of their talk so…

Honestly I would trade all the ship stuff for a proper story arc for Vi, Jinx, Cait and the rest

I saw the signs for Vi as soon as her pit fighter arc didn’t extend passed the promo clips. I kept waiting to delve into her issues but that never came.

Jinx was done so dirty. And this was something I prayed wouldn’t happen. She’s so personal to me in ways that would take too long to go into here. I had high hopes for her, especially after Isha and her starting to move forward, I knew it wouldn’t last but I knew (hoped) it would be interesting. I fully expected Isha to die but the way it happened was so weird?? The scene itself felt like it was manipulating me which is something I hate with a passion.

Likewise I expected her to relapse into suicidality after that and I had suspected that the scene with Ekko would happen. Her scene with Vi beforehand hurt in a good way and I wanted to watch as she hit rock bottom then clawed her way back as she started to mend the broken relationships in her life.

The thing that finally set me off was her hair. I thought she would cut it after she decided to live, as a show a change but before was just so cliché (it did look cute but don’t go trying to distract me)

I really didn’t want people blaming Vi for Jinx running off to try to end herself again. And I didn’t, even though I knew something was wrong about the way the scene played out and lead into the sex scene. I knew something was wrong I was just hoping that I was wrong.

I was so looking forward to the CaitVi sex scene, since King Princess was revealed for the soundtrack. Hoping her and Cait would have a real ass conversation, a hard conversation and then get that moment together but it just felt wrong. I wanted to love it but I didn’t. As a King Princess fan I was so excited but all I feel now is at best apathy and at worst anger. The more I read from lesbians in the fandom and those that care for Vi how I care for Jinx the worse I feel.

Briefly let’s talk about Cait. I was interested in her arc after Act l. Messy it would be and a long road back for sure but I had hope. She was done dirty too.

Back to Jinx…. What the fuck was that ending? Her “sacrifice” felt so similar to her fights with Vi (Act l) and Ekko (S1) where she was going to let herself die. No growth from the rest of the season, that’s how they left us, that’s what they did to a character that they did so beautifully in S1. I don’t care if she’s alive, that’s not a fucking ending.

(Apologies for continuing to bring up my predictions. I just think it’s funny how my thoughts make more sense than what we got)

I didn’t mind the idea of her sacrificing herself for Vi, Arcane is a tragedy after all. Her being the one to protect her sister in the end not because she thought Vi was better off without her but because Vi protects everyone and her sister can help now would have been great.

But that ending rubbed me wrong in every way.

The story of these sisters meant everything to me and what a fool we all were to think it was in competent hands. Like seriously I can’t believe this is the same writing team.

All of us went in with high hopes and then had those hopes crushed.

I’ve seen so many people who were excited to react and analyze go radio silent after Act ll and I hope they stay that way. I’d love to change my mind but I don’t think I can. I don’t think there’s any coming back.

I wanted to take the good moments and leave it alone but I keep feeling the disappointment because the show’s first season left a mark on me that I’ll treasure forever and I can’t let go. I still have so many feelings about this. Piltover and Zaun, Victor and Jayce, Mel and Ambessa, admittedly not my area of expertise but safe to say they all deserved better and we deserved better.

I would say it felt like a fanfic but I know fans have more grace and respect for this story.

This is not the tragedy I signed up for.

[catfishofoldin99colours]

it's SO interesting seeing how different people react to the story of mouthwashing and how it unfolds, particularly the element of playing as curly and Jimmy

Having seen both gab smolders and jacksepticeye play it now, it's interesting seeing how differently they react to it all

Gab reacts to it similar to how she reacts to most pov horror games she plays, in that she takes the story in stride and the actions of the characters are accepted and interpreted through a lens of understanding that this is a horror story, and everyone is the worst version of themselves. What surprises her the most is just *how* intense the themes and suffering gets, such as the cannabalism and sheer vitriol Jimmy says to curly, but she's not surprised that Jimmy is awful at all. Even him being the main pov character for majority of the game play doesn't necessarily make any reveals about him (he got Anya pregnant, he was the one who crashed the ship) into a lesser being in her head, she's more intrigued by what they reveal about the story. That's not to say she thinks he's great at all, but any information doesn't take him down from a pedestal in her head because she never had one on him in the first place.

Given she loves horror stories and horror games and frequently talks about the horror books she reads, this makes sense. She's primed to come to a horror story knowing it's a tragedy and no one is good and accepts that immediately.

Jack, on the other hand, interprets the lenses of Jimmy as the inherent main character, and he is, but jack takes it as, 'he is the victim the story is happening to' rather than 'he is as much complacent and active in the horrors going on as the story wants to make him experience.' he gives Jimmy a normal voice when reading out his dialogue, and everyone else gets some kind of voice acting - a deviation from the norm, which is immediately Jimmy in his eyes. Even curly gets a rough scratchy voice and through that until jack sees his face, it can inferred jack sees him as the grizzled old man that Jimmy arguably is instead of curly (tho in the wake of most people seeing curly as nothing but a victim and incapable of causing any harm when he very much did, this is kind of refreshing to me).

It's only when Swansea is dead and Jimmy is REALLY descending into madness, that jack considers the idea that Jimmy may be the bad guy, and that in turn, he has been perpetuating many actions that have led to the horrible situation getting worse.

Interestingly, the puzzle - gab, who up until that point has been thoroughly horrified by everything that does happen and how graphic the game has been, seems to find a sort of dissociative comfort in making the pipes line up so curly can digest his own leg. Meanwhile jack cannot stop focusing on the horror of making curly digest his own leg to the point that he takes a while to figure out how the puzzle works to complete it, and eventually settles into a very uncomfortable silence as he makes it work.

It's two really interesting ways that this game has been interpreted and I kinda fucking love thinking about it.