#the scene just doesn’t read (to me) like someone who is naturally touch-averse

[wumiings]

i’m sorry are you telling me that after everything he said about his family supposedly being close— doting on his little sister and having a warm older brother whom yue qingyuan reminds him of— shen yuan was never once properly hugged before he died???

like i know he immediately tries to cover it with an uncomfy aside about how it wasn’t a pretty young woman hugging him or w/e, but he clearly isn’t talking about a first romantic hug specifically, because the context is being tackled by a crying 15-year-old whom he calls a huge baby for it.

so this is literally his first real, tight hug in his 20ish years of life and it happens in a ‘fictional’ world with a child he thinks might grow up to brutally-yet-justifiably (to his mind) torture him after he died alone and had his soul transplanted into someone else’s body.

babe??? i really don’t think your life was nearly as idyllic as you implied and i would love to know what the fuck is up with that

[dontgivenoyacaffeine]

Some Thoughts about Sakusa Kiyoomi (headcanon's)

Hi I just found out how to use the keep reading function so I will no longer take up a feed with a long list of headcannon's. This also means I will be posting longer lists of headcannon's because I have no willpower. Also if y'all haven't noticed I do not proof read these. English is my first language, I just write these at like three in the morning.

- He actually likes that Atsumu calls him Omi, it was his idea actually. He doesn't like the fact that his name is usually associated with woman so he prefers people call him Sakusa, but Atsumu wanted to call him something that was more personal than his family name, thus Omi was born (I can't believe I started this with lowkey SakuAtsu oops)

- His tells people his favorite color is red because it was the first color he thought of but really his favorite color is brown and he just got tiered of arguing with people that "it's actually a really nice color ad has a lot of variety in it" (yes I am projecting)

- He once decided to jump off a second story window of a house and into a pool at a random party in high school. It was his first and last party he went to. He jumped out completely sober because the 'small get together' Komori had dragged him to had more and more people showing up every minutes and it was the only way he could get out of the crowd. He got invited to every party after that but he never showed.

- He decided to go to college because he was scared of not being able to make it professionally. IT wasn't until he saw Kageyama and Ushijima making it professionally with the Adlers that he regretted his decision. He stuck it to the end though because he had already started it.

- He got his degree in communications, specifically in sports broadcast and journalism so that he can stay as close to the volleyball scene as possible once he retires from playing.

- He convinces Atsumu to get a degree via online college so that he has a career to fall back on that isn't making food with his brother. Because of this he becomes a tutor for Atsumu and helps him get a degree in education services.

- When he retires he gets hired by the v-league media team and works closely with the athletes documenting their lives for the various media platforms.

- He convinced Komori to shave his eyebrows into circles as a dare in high school. Komori liked it so he kept doing it no knowing or caring that it would permanently effect his eyebrow hair growth. Kiyoomi hates his cousins eyebrows but he has no one but himself to blame.

- Kiyoomi thought he preferred Atsumu with his natural dark hair, but when he let it grow out naturally after shaving it for a charity event Kiyoomi mistook him for Osamu when Atsumu went in for a kiss and decked him in the face. He no longer prefers Atsumu with his natural hair color.

- His entire house is fitted with different forms of LED smart lights. He has lights connected to his TV, lights in multiple lamps, LED shower lights, a light in his toilet bow, just LED lights everywhere. No one has seen him in normal colored or overhead lighting in his home. Except for Atsumu and Komori who helped him install every light.

- He has a bookshelf that covers an entire wall filled with collectors editions of classics. he hasn't read over half the books in his collection though, but everyone thinks he is super smart because of the fact he owns them

- When he was at the Olympics, he ended up using thigh high knee pads. He used them all during the practice seasons leading up to the Olympics, so he was used to them, but the media was not. Japanese volley ball fans went crazy at the change convinced it was going to make them loose. It wasn't until the won three different games in straight sets that the media finally shut up about his knee pads.

- He watches a lot of foreign media (an no I don't just mean he watches Japanese and American shows, I mean a diverse selection of media from different random countries, yes this is me projecting again shut up) and it always confuses his teammates when they see him watching something in a language none of them understand. The most confusing this to them was a Spanish soap opera. Everyone tried to get Hinata to translate it, but he had a hard time explain that he knew only a little Spanish and that the language of Brazil was Portuguese not Spanish. Kiyoomi finally turned and let them watch over his shoulders so that they could read the subtitles too. It became tradition to go over to someone's house and watch soap operas after that.

- He actually becomes good friends with Tobio during the Olympics and keeps in touch with him afterwards. No one but Atsumu and Hinata knows what they have in common, and no one would believe them if they told the that they both collect stuffed animals

- He had his sexual awakening at college when he accidentally walked in on two guys making out in a classroom. There was no weird moment, he just saw them and was like "wait a minute that's what I want to do" and he just was.

- Everyone thinks he's gay when he starts dating Atsumu but he addresses the public and comes out as demi. He doesn't tell the public that the only other relationship he had was with a woman.

- He and Atsumu come up with pet names for each other making fun of common pet names. Kiyoomi calls Atsumu candy cake (sweetie pie) and Atsumu calls Kiyoomi bee vomit (honey).

- He never wears the color green after high school and no one knows why. Everyone thinks there is some large conspiracy behind it. The reality is that he just doesn't think it looks good on him.

- He loves having his hair played with by any and everyone who is willing to play with his hair. His touch aversion makes everyone think he wouldn't like it but eventually it becomes common practice amongst the Jackals and the JNT to play with his hair whenever they're stresses.

- He hates the shoes they have to wear to games for MSBY games and makes it a priority to put them on the last possible second he can and take them off the first moment he can. He can commonly be seen walking off of the court after games carrying his shoes with his socks sliding on the floor as he walks. He has tripped many ties and has no plan of stopping.

-He made a cameo in a show and promptly got caught in a scandal with the lead actress of the show where everyone thought they were cheating in their partners with each other. It gets shut down quickly when, at a press conference after a game, a journalist asks him about it and he reaches over and grabs Atsumu's face and kisses him as loudly as he could. No one asks him or her anything about it again.

- He likes wearing fun and bright clothes that would make him stand out especially since he's a star athlete and very tall, but because no one expects him to wear a bright red pair of overalls with a checkers black and white button up underneath everyone thinks he's just an eccentrically dressed lookalike.

[everything-laito]

About the theory that maybe Laito doesn't like to be touched as much as he says he does.

This was submitted by @grs-wonder320! I did not edit anything in their response (or the title), I just added paragraph breaks so it's easier to read. I'll put my response below as well!

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I am not the one who asked this question, but I would like to take this opportunity to express my personal opinion on this question. As it turns out, I have a completely different opinion than Corn. That is to say, I believe that there is a good chance that Laito does not like to be touched.

Rationale: I believe that there is a psychology of "excessive pandering to those things that are disgusting or painful to you," and I think that this psychology makes us appear to be happy on the surface, even though we actually dislike them. There are many exceptions to this rule. You may be thinking, "No, no, there are many exceptions to this rule. It is true that this rule does not apply in all situations. It mainly works when he is playing a pervert. So, why does he dare to act perverted in the first place? Most of the time, it's because he wants to be smoked out by the people around him. Why do you want to be smoked? ↓ I don't want to attract them to myself. ↓ Even though he doesn't want to be around other people, he is very sociable (compared to the people around him, that is). So it's hard to imagine why he is annoyed by human relationships like Subaru. ↓ Then there is a good chance that they want to hide something or smoke you out because there is something they don't want you to know. ↓ There is often a pattern of people who want to hide the fact that they are actually perverts, so they pretend to be sane on the surface.

In other words, the Laito that is ostensibly acting as a pervert is _____? Yes, that's what I mean. (What do you mean?) It's almost impossible to play a pervert to hide a pervert, isn't it? Most of the time, people play a false image to hide the opposite nature. In Laito's case, considering what happened in the past, it can be seen as "I'm acting perverted because I want to hide the fact that I'm hurt, and I don't want to be aware that I'm hurt, so I'm acting perverted as a self-suggestion.

There are not many people who can be sincerely friendly to the events that hurt them. In the first place, being "hurt" proves that there was something disgusting about you, so we can conclude that Laito is likely to have an aversion to sexual things. I think this explains the psychology that exists in Laito. Back to the topic at hand, I think it's hard to believe that Laito likes to be touched.

In Corn's answer, he used the example of "Laito trying to get me to touch him", which I think can also be explained by the aforementioned psychology. I, too, have a desire to challenge things I dislike (although this is due to overcoming my weaknesses and seeing things that scare me, and is not the same as Laito's), so I think it is entirely possible for someone to "dare to do something they dislike. Also, there is a high possibility that Laito is not aware of his own aversion to sexual matters, and if that is the case, everything is "true" in his mind, so naturally he would not be aware that he is doing something he dislikes. It could be called an unconscious act of self-harm. In the real world, you can only be aware of it when someone points it out to you, or you break your body by going over the limit. I think Laito has that kind of thing too. (Especially Laito in MB). This concludes the explanation. Thank you very much for reading this far!

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First of all, I'm unsure what you mean by "smoking out," If you could provide clarification on that, that would be great! I think I know what you mean by it, I'm just a lil confused and hope I didn't misinterpret it!

I do agree with you on your psychology on the excessive pandering part! That's exactly what Laito does most of the time, it's what fuels his facade! As for touching, I do think that speculating it could go either way. I do think Laito is touch starved though. Sure people who are touch starved might not want to be touched. I have thought about it since I made that post and honestly, he might want to be touched just like he wants to have genuine love, but he's insecure about it almost.

However, if he was excessively pandering about being touched, he might have done that more often. The only time where he asks Yui to touch him throughout the entire HDB game is only in that supposed mutual masturbation scene, and his heaven scenario. He is known to have a masochistic streak regardless. The other times its Yui either pushing him or slapping him etc. (I'm planning on going over his masochism on a later date)

Laito excessively panders when he says absolutely wild shit that makes others uncomfortable, or gets Yui to be unnerved.

In my previous post, I did say that he could be playing it up! But the fact that he doesn't have Yui touch him until late game does say something. It shows that he's opening up and being more vulnerable. Sure this is HDB Laito and we don't really get much of his facade cracking in that game compared to MB+. Late game HDB Laito is able to let down his guard slightly, since he knows he has Yui wrapped around his finger. The thing is, his excessive pandering to him being a pervert is typically used for manipulation. Your psychology checks out in everything else about him, I do agree with that. But as for touching, that doesn't really "prove" to Yui that Laito's a pervert.

If Laito wanted to utilize touch as a facade of control, he would have done it earlier. Instead, he used other methods to give Yui a false sense of security at times, which he used to break her down further. Could he be doing it in order to show Yui he doesn't have a weakness? He could, but once again when it comes to topics or situations where he doesn't want to be involved with, he acts aloof and avoids it at all costs while changing the conversation. That's my rationale on that. The fact that he has such a different reaction being touched vs his other activities that could be considered as "excessive pandering" is a lil ~sus~ as they say. Or inversely, maybe Laito doen't address the fact that he likes being touched because he might consider genuine thrill as a weakness but maybe he gets desperate. He's desperate for legitimate compassion, the mans needs it.

As for challenging things you dislike, that also checks out in general. However, when it comes to Laito, he likes a sense of control and security. Instructing Yui to touch him gives that sense of control, but also lets him be slightly vulnerable. It's not even that vulnerable because if she does anything that could potentially harm Laito, he would be able to stop it in an instant.

He doesn't like challenging himself, and we all know this. His facade was created so he doesn't have to challenge himself to get over his past trauma. It's to avoid it and not challenge it instead.

I do think that Laito is incredibly self aware and self unaware at the same time. It's a little paradoxical but I feel like he knows he has a facade, but again, he tries to avoid the fact that he does have one and that his facade is true. We do know he's self aware through drama cds and what he says about himself in the games. They're vague, but once you know his character, you know what he's talking about. The fact that he projects onto Yui also says a lot about that.

Also, a little side note as well, in MB he does have consensual sex with Yui. Before that scene happened, he was being extremely vulnerable and a good chunk of his facade broke down. There's a certain tone when you know Laito's being serious and taking down his mask, and that's exactly what he did in that MB scene. Here's a quote from it:

Laito: For some reason, I feel strangely refreshed. Don’t you think that’s weird? I couldn’t get your blood out of my head for the longest time, but it finally calmed down. Right now, it isn’t your blood, but instead I want to hold your warm body close like this… And kiss you…I want to indulge in your body until I’m sick and tired of it. Nfu~

In this scene, Laito was happy crying, which was something he was not familiar with but also hasn't experienced before. It's an involuntary bodily function, yet he was confused by it. This just shows he is genuinely happy, and the fact that he says that he genuinely is admitting to what he wants for once, I don't think it's excessive pandering in this scene, it's him developing. You could argue that he got over his aversion to being touched in this scene. There's a couple asks in my ask box that's related to him and sex, which I will also get to sometimes this week. But that's a different post.

Again I think it could be argued either way, but that's my thought process behind this aside from what I previously said! There's just a lot to think about when it comes to this, and we won't know unless if something is said in canon! But Laito's incredibly complex and there's several factors that explains his behavior.

Hope that makes sense! And once again, thanks so much for submitting! I love hearing people's opinions and their own thoughts that either confirm or challenge my own, so thank you for that! This one definitely got me thinking more. That's the beauty in analysis! Each person takes something different from the text!

And who knows, maybe I’ll change my mind in the future!

[b-yeonder]

Hey are the requests open? If so, can you do a a-z nsfw for Lucifer? If they're not open then please ignore this. Anyways, I love your writing and I'm looking forward to more 😊😊😊

I’ve never done one of these before so I hope it’s okay. Also I struggle to take anything seriously so of course there’s gonna be some dumb shit in here. Anyway, hope you enjoy and thank you so much! 

Warnings: NSFW, mentions of murder

NSFW A-Z: LUCIFER

A = Aftercare (What they’re like after sex)

Lucifer can be rough - he's known to be a sadist after all but that doesn't mean he doesn't know how to look after you once he's had his way. Softens his voice, asks if you're okay, if there's anything you need. Will clean you up and praise you for how well you did. If it's him needing the aftercare, he's very quiet, playing over what just happened. Appreciates a drink and gentle caresses to bring him back down to earth

B = Body Part (Their favourite body part of theirs and also their partner’s)

I think that Lucifer has quite a lot of insecurities - being told you're perfect all the time can make you dwell more on your flaws (or what you deem to be flaws.) But one thing he does like is his eyes. He knows he can make you lose yourself in his eyes with a single look. One look from across the room and he can have you begging for him within moments.On you he loves your hands. He doesn't let many people get close, let alone touch him, but your hands can ease his pains and make him feel loved. Massages, caresses, the way you hold his head against your chest at night, or the way you grip his cock so eagerly once he's riled you up. Also ties into a little somethin' I'll mention below in the D section eh ehhhh. (Oh and your mouth is a close second. (And not just because you called him baby boy once and had him malfunctioning for a whole hour.))

C = Cum (Anything to do with cum basically… I’m a disgusting person)

Lucifer doesn't like the thought of cleaning up, so prefers to cum inside you - it's his main way of showing that you're his. But accidents happen and there have been times he's slipped out at the last minute and coated the skin of your stomach/back and for a moment he found himself admiring it - like a new way of marking you as his. Oh he also likes painting your tongue with his cum too because watching you swallow it makes his pride bl o s s o m.

D = Dirty Secret (Pretty self explanatory, a dirty secret of theirs)

Dirty to him anyway - he actually likes submitting to you. (Once you two are quite established.) Shock horror! But you're the only one he trusts to completely let loose with, and sometimes when you have this much pressure on you it's nice to let someone else take control. BE HONOURED. OH and the hand thing. He will fucking worship your digits. Kiss 'em, suck 'em, nuzzle 'em. OOF. 

E = Experience (How experienced are they? Do they know what they’re doing?)

He's been around for a long time, so it goes without saying he's had plenty of experience. He's well versed in the basics and is quick to pick up on every little thing you like to use against you (in the best way possible).

F = Favourite Position (This goes without saying. Will probably include a visual)

Likes being able to see your face, to watch every little sound escape your lips, every little sign of pleasure. Feeds off of it. But is not averse to shoving you face first into the mattress and fucking you senseless until you can barely utter a word. So y'know depends on his mood really. 

G = Goofy (Are they more serious in the moment, or are they humorous, etc)

Serious. But dumb shit can happen during sex and even the Mighty First is not immune to this. Will laugh stuff off and get things quickly back on track by muttering naughty things in that delicious voice of his. If you insist on being jokey he'll insist on making it so you can't do anything but moan ;)

H = Hair (How well groomed are they, does the carpet match the drapes, etc.)

He's a busy guy, but he makes sure to always be groomed. This does mean that things get on top of him and well...don't blame the overworked tired bean if he gets a little unruly down there sometimes, okay?

I = Intimacy (How are they during the moment, romantic aspect…) 

He's almost always quietly praising/encouraging you - in between the teasing of course. 

J = Jack Off (Masturbation headcanon)

He's a stressed mess, he needs to release his frustrations somehow. Does it less so since you came along, and honestly didn't masturbate too often before, but when he does it's a scene. He takes his time, making sure to work up to a glorious finish so that he can truly relax afterwards.

K = Kink (One or more of their kinks)

Probably has a Sir or Daddy kink. Kinda likes choking you as well. One time your hand slipped from his chest to his throat without you thinking and that's when he realised he kinda likes being choked too oii oiiii.

L = Location (Favourite places to do the do)

His freakin' giant glorious bed because he's old and has back pain. Also bending you over his desk after rather troublesome days works too.

M = Motivation (What turns them on, gets them going)

You teasing him throughout the day. "MC you're eating that corn too sexually I'm going to have to teach you a lesson later." "Did you just call me mum? I don't care if it's an accident, I'm going to have to punish you later." "Did you just breathe? That's it, you asked for it." In all seriousness he rarely shows his want for you on the outside, but inside he'll be raring to ravage you. Depends on the day - one day you could have him popping a boner simply by rubbing your foot against his calf. The next, stripping naked and grinding on his face might not even make him blink. 

N = NO (Something they wouldn’t do, turn offs)

"Roleplay as Satan for me, Lucifer." You're probably dead before you even finish speaking those words, sorry I don't make the rules. (Oh wait I kinda do right now oops.)

O = Oral (Preference in giving or receiving, skill, etc)

Prefers to give as he likes having the power over you to make you come completely undone. Can feel a little vulnerable receiving - maybe he got bitten by a devious ex lover, who knows, but once you get going and his confidence with you grows he likes nothing more than grabbing the back of your head and urging you to take more of him.

P = Pace (Are they fast and rough? Slow and sensual? etc.)

He can be both. Fast and rough are his go-to, and when he does go slow, his thrusts are still usually on the harder side.

Q = Quickie (Their opinions on quickies rather than proper sex, how often, etc.)

He loves taking his time with you, as he likes driving you crazy for him but if the mood calls for it he has no issues with bending you over his desk and taking you right then and there. Will probably take extra care of you next time.

R = Risk (Are they game to experiment, do they take risks, etc.)

Damn straight he's down to experiment. Is curious to see how far both of you can go and what you're willing to do. 

S = Stamina (How many rounds can they go for, how long do they last…)

Only one round, his back hurts too much. I'm kidding, he can go a few rounds, and can last a long time. There have been a couple occasions he's cum rather fast - either when drunk, or it's been a while since the last time. Gets very embarrassed over it but knows it's natural and happens sometimes. (That’s not the norm though, he promises.)

T = Toy (Do they own toys? Do they use them? On a partner or themselves?)

He got a bit crazy when you came along. Anything you like the sound of, he has. Already had blindfolds and things to bind you with - rope, ribbons, string cheese, you name it. But now you're here he has a whole collection of toys to tease you with. Even has a favourite vibrator he loves to leave strapped to your thigh so you can't get away from it. Ah, good times.

U = Unfair (how much they like to tease)

Biiitch. BIiiiiiiiiiiiiiitch. This monster is the biggest tease. "Hm...I'm not sure you deserve my cock today, MC. Now now, begging will get you nowhere." (It probably will eventually, just saying. ...Maybe.) He'll leave you on read for days but magically turn up just as you're about to pleasure yourself like "nuhuh bitch, not today."

V = Volume (How loud they are, what sounds they make)

Fairly quiet - any sounds he does make are low in his throat, deep. Loses control closer to reaching his climax - gets breathier, speaks a little louder and noises are more frequent. Buuut once he did manage to wake up everyone in the house but that was because you'd been teasing him all day, you hadn’t slept together in like a week, and he'd been drinking and-- the list of excuses go on.

W = Wild Card (Get a random headcanon for the character of your choice)

Was once convinced to try out women's underwear once after a conversation with Asmo and was pleasantly surprised by how nice his ass looked. Will never EVER tell anyone this though, not even you and shit I shouldn't even be writing this he's probably gonna-- Oh heyyy Lucifer, nothing to see here I was jus--*gurrKH*

X = X-Ray (Let’s see what’s going on in those pants, picture or words)

Decent length, decent thickness. Just enough to take a bit of work to fit in but not too much that it's uncomfortable, y'know?

Y = Yearning (How high is their sex drive?)

Not very high, definitely not above average. Can definitely go without, but his mind might wander.

Z = ZZZ (… how quickly they fall asleep afterwards)

Depends how tired he is, and how much is on his mind. You'll probably be the one to fall asleep first most of the time, which is great because he's good at giving after-sex cuddles. Plus your steady breathing makes it easier for him to sleep as well so...win win?

[lightwormlol]

ACOFAS REVIEW -INC SPOILERS

4.5 stars.

Okay, so! This was the first book I was able to finish in 2021. I've kinda been in a reading slump, and struggling to get past the 30-50% of books. I think its because I took essentially 3 months off my normal (daily) reading schedule and have been prioritising other things (health, fitness, job applications etc) - I think it's a testament to how addicted I was to this that I finished and consumed this at the rate I did! I recently went back and added some things to my ACOWAR review. To briefly summarise, I feel that, at the time I read it, it kind of gave me what I needed, but it definitely isn't getting a re read - my love for feysand has definitely lessened over time, but honestly i'm not that mad at sarah for this, as I find that whenever I've passed the sexual tension part of relationships in books, I tend to get bored of the domestic bliss. Like, leave that shit for an epilogue and keep it at that? As someone generally averse to relationships, but there is definitely a grace period for how long I can actively be smitten with a couple... before it becomes sickly. Taking all this into account, I honestly was nervous for this book, its release date totally took me by surprise, and I read it on a whim. As a Nessian shipper (I mean we didn't really have a choice after acomaf but to delve into the world of fanfic to keep us going) - this book gave me most of what I wanted and needed from them! I think,(some) kudos to SJM, for not disappointing in their relationship. This was definitely a character > plot driven story. In terms of the plot, I wasn't really invested until around the 38% mark? I'm not sure if I was adjusting to the writing style (lots of dramatic. sentences. that. are. so. abrupt. Nesta Archeron. Death etc) - or if it was bc I hadn't read an SJM book since the novella, which I basically skimmed. I was obviously reading for Nessian, but I didn't really feel intrigued by the wider plot (death gods, the human queens? Given I had lost my previous obsession with the world/ have outgrown 'fandom' culture, that made me actively update my knowledge, I couldn't remember a lot!) I think its clear that SJM excels character driven stories, but I think her worldbuilding and execution is significantly better in the throne of glass franchise. Now, I did say this was a character driven story. This is mostly regarding Nesta, Cassian and Azriel. I loved pretty much any interaction they had! I love a good training montage. Ngl though, I think, unless you possess an ardent love for Nessian, you're not going to be particularly wowed by this, if you've read heir of fire, or even acomaf. I obviously am never going to be able to be objective, because I've loved nessian so much from 2017-now, but I loved the dynamic those two (and three - friendship wise between nes/cass/az). One of the highlights of ACOWAR for me was the snippets of Az, showing tenderness, and opening up to the newer members of the inner circle (and i'm excluding any hint of an Elriel ship because FUCK THAT LOL) For me, the tip with SJM books is: once you outgrow them/the particular mode of narrative style, is to not anticipate anything other than a character driven story, albeit one riddled with smut. I personally am a romance heavy reader, so I'm honestly deconditioned to it at this point, (like, when I see reviewers scandalised I'm like... wow, the amount of trash I have consumed in the last five years loool.) While I disagree with the fact SJM marketed this series as y/a (or maybe it wasn't her per se, but the key booksellers definitely did this for her) - I think its clear enough now she's descended into the adult/borderline erotica genre.(very mild imo). I personally like to adopt a policy of skimming sex scenes when I find the dialogue cringy (most the time it is lets be honest any talking is v second hand embarrassment). Cassian and Nesta were definitely better than Rhys and Feyre post chapter 55 though! I was so glad there weren't a million moments of Cass/Nesta betraying their arousal with their scents, in front of everyone (like feysand, the voyeuristic pda pricks they are). I found the slowburn ish nature of their relationship great, and I actually think if you're a virgo/emotionally stunted reader, you will be happy with their relationship dynamic. It contrasts with the daemati sexual snark of acomaf, but it felt right, and authentic. This book was a journey of personal growth, for Nesta. It is clear SJM loves books about strong women, and maybe thats what makes me love this book so much. I think, out of all the archeron sisters, I love Nesta the most. This is for my Rose Calloway fans, my misunderstood, somewhat cold/left out girls, who are less receptive to being vulnerable. If you're a slowburn fan, it's not Mariana Zapata levels of slowburn, imo it's the perfect combo. Addictive enough that I don't want to put it down, but not so fast moving that I couldn't believe it. I loved the sex without emotion relationship they had!! This is honestly never done in mainstream n/a fantasy, unless its a caricature of a 'slut' that normally rivals the main character, lmao. Even if their inner conflict was p transparent, this gave me everything I needed! I know this is vapid lol but I also love the physical dynamic between the two, they just look so good together, the amount of fanart I'm going to reacquaint myself with after this review!! I adored seeing Nesta grow, (even if towards the end I kind of resented her sudden acceptance into the inner circle, i get SJM loves her and just wanted a fluffy ending, but, as a Nesta like character, it's awkward and stilted on her end to adjust to the inner circle like this - i mean, hugging rhys, really??)

I think, if I had to compare this to any other SJM book, I would say Chaols book (though I obviously preferred this). That being said, I felt less attached to new characters in this book than I was in even Chaols book (and even then ngl I remember nothing?) Obviously I loved what it represented, as a trio of traumatised women. I just, didn't love this the way I loved other inner circle members! I get that they gave Nesta exactly what they needed, a family that doesn't hold the history of her sisters, who she doesn't have to worry about holding preconceived notions of disappointment. I loved this for her! Even then.. I just wasn't attached to either of them. I found their interactions cute - but boring. Towards the end, when their stories/pasts are revealed, I couldn't help but cringe slightly, I can't put my finger on why, but I just didn't buy it. Maybe it's the brit in me but I couldn't be moved by this slightly forced bonding moment.. which was so anticlimactic. My 'aww how cute' tolerance is defo deserved for characters whose tropes I love. Maybe they just didn't fit into this list. Maybe I'm just being a cow here?

Now, let's speak about the real star of the show.... A FUCKING MAGICAL HOUSE FRIEND??? YESSSSSSS. IF YOU ARE AN ILONA ANDREWS INNKEEPERS CHRONICLES FAN, U WILL LOVE! How was the animation of this somehow more touching than all of nesta's other friendships combined? Exactly what I ordered, thank you. This trope somehow touches more than any material bonding!! The cute witch x house dynamic (also maybe howls moving castle vibes?) I loved the trying to reach the target of 10,000 steps (a little Celaena HOF). I think this, heir of fire and acomaf are my favourite SJM books for this reason. Gripes: I definitely had some personal gripes with how other members of the inner circle treated Nesta (rhys i'm looking at you. Disappointed doesn't even cover it.) I inherently take offence to any elain scene, as i'm so over bland characters whose existence is reduced to wanting to fucking plant flowers?? like?? really? To go from moriel to that is such a downgrade, even if I fell out of love with Mor due to the way she snubbed Nesta (you're a 500 year old being and you can't see someone is clearly traumatised?). I adore Az so much, but if it aint polyamorous, I cannot see any pairing with Elain making me happy. (wouldn’t mind gwyn though) I think the whole mating bond that I do not want is a good dynamic, but I really hate that everyone has to be mates in this world. I don't think we were that surprised, but it would've been nice if the somehow, idk, developed a strong bond over time, without it being preordained? Like, even if they do not all actively stay with their mate, given how disproportionate mates are among the general population, what's the likelihood 6 members of the inner circle (including lucien) have mates?

My advice? Read this book if you love nessian and the acotar world in general, but don't expect the world building to be consistent with greater fantasy series'. This style of story is obviously what to expect. She writes what she likes, and if her fantasy is this - then who are we, as readers, to expect otherwise?

Final rating: 4.5 (no, i'm not objective, but objectivity does not exist if you are a real, human being, lol)

Original Characters: 5/5 (nessian/az/house wise) 1/5 (feysand - really over how they essentially take over the very end of the book - ugh, I wanted nesta's arc to be wholly separate from them) Writing style: 3.5 Cringe Scale: Low, with the exception of some dialogue. New Characters: 2 Plot: I went into it with a 2 and came out with a 4. Not in terms of complexity, but in terms of how addictive and enjoyable this reading experience was! (less)

[johannas-motivational-insults]

I'd like to read your commentary on the closet scene in Hail Mary!

Well ask and you shall receive, friend! (Commentary is bolded.)

I love this scene. Tbh I first wrote the sardines gag into an original fic I wrote in high school and I’m just nostalgic for it. But it is also a really great way to get characters in close quarters together, so... ;)

As it turns out, Adora does find Catra first. She knows her better than anyone, after all, knows how she gravitates towards small, dark, enclosed spaces for a sense of comfort. (Ah, here’s another instance of Catra behaving like a cat but hopefully in a non-distracting way.) Also, there’s the whole thing about how she used to hide in the closet at home when she was scared, or upset after a disciplinary encounter with Ms. Weaver. It was about the only place she could get privacy in that house, sharing a room with two other girls.

Adora remembers hearing her muted whimpers from behind the slatted doors, knocking gently and being yelled at to go away. She remembers sitting down leaning against said doors, guarding the space while Catra collected herself. (A lovely role reversal here!) In the times when she was scared, for good reason, Adora would eventually be torn away by threat or force, Catra would be ripped from her hiding spot, and the screaming would begin. The screaming and…

Adora prefers not to think about those times. She prefers the memories of after the danger had passed when she could just sit there, a comfort to her friend. On rare occasions Catra would not even allow her that, would shout at her until she left the room. Others, she didn’t tell Adora to go away at all, and Adora would crawl into the darkness and find her curled up on the floor, her face stained with tears. Adora would sit silently and take her head into her lap, gently scratching her scalp and stroking her hair, rubbing her back if it was safe to do so. It always calmed Catra down, and it was soothing for Adora too. It helped keep her hands busy and her mind off of what she’d just heard.

Oh hello my poor little traumatized neurodivergent children, stim to your hearts’ content. (And yes, Catra is also neurodivergent in this fic. It’s only been hinted at so far but later it’s revealed that Catra believes she’s ADHD but she never got a chance to get diagnosed because Weaver just saw her as a troublemaker. And because she’s brown many shrinks or social workers would tend to jump to that conclusion too instead of thinking maybe she has a disorder. It’s a little hat tip to the double standards and obstacles to diagnoses that neurodivergent women and POC have to deal with. And you all get to learn that early because you bothered to read this. :D)

Obviously the wave of nostalgia she’s hit by when she finds Catra once again hiding in a closet is not an entirely pleasant one. But she can’t help a small smile either, both at her victory and at seeing Catra’s face. It’s a natural side effect.

“Hey look, I won,” Adora brags when she spies Catra flattened against the wall on one side

Catra shakes her head slightly, amused. “Of course you did.”

Oh wow, I really didn’t hold back on Catra’s subtle resentment, did I?

Pulling the door shut behind her, Adora steps through the thick curtain of garments. Catra actually picked a pretty good spot - there’s a bunch of coats on that side of the closet that obscure her legs, and with how full the closet is it would be easy for someone peeking past the clothes to miss her.

The positioning may be different, the two of them on more or less equal footing and nursing no physical wounds, but Adora can’t shake the sense of awkwardness, her fear that their previous closet rendezvous are all Catra can think about too. (...Out of context this sounds a little bit like they’ve engaged in BDSM in a closet lmao but no, wrong fic.) And the idea of that is unbearable, especially if Catra’s already upset about Scorpia, so Adora takes it upon herself to break the tension.

“Look at us, back in the closet together,” she cracks, poking Catra in the ribs. “Who woulda thought, after all those Pride parades?”

This joke is stupid and I love it.

Catra brushes her hand away with a scoff. “Speak for yourself, I was never in any closet.” Despite her words of protest, she’s smiling a little. Eyeing Adora up and down, she adds, “And you were always like the ultimate sports dyke, so it’s not like people didn’t know about you either. Even if you didn’t figure it out until we met everyone’s favorite MILF.”

I will never let the Huntadora crush die. Tbh this is a little sad though because Catra doesn’t realize it’s always been her for Adora. She doesn’t let it show but she is kinda sad that from her perspective Huntara was Adora’s gay awakening, not her.

Oh, that definitely went a direction Adora didn’t expect. Brow furrowing, she purses her lips as she weighs the cost of the truth, how much she can divulge before it becomes incriminating. Her voice is quiet and eyes are down when she says, “No, I knew.”

It takes a second for Catra to respond. “What, really?”

Slowly lifting her head, Adora raises her eyebrows as she meets Catra’s confused gaze. “Just because I didn’t talk about it doesn’t mean I didn’t know.”

This is such a pivotal moment, just an understated one because it’s from Adora’s POV.  Catra thinks she knows Adora so well, and the idea that Adora not only intentionally kept something (her awareness of her sexuality) from her but was able to fool her is a shot to the ego.

A tiny scoff escapes Catra’s throat, eyes flicking away as her arms fold over her chest. “Never thought you were that good at keeping secrets,” she remarks. Finally she looks back at Adora, gesturing expectantly. “Well? How long have you known?”

Adora frowns in thought. Not because she doesn’t know the answer, but because there’s no casual way to tell your best friend ‘I’ve wanted to marry you since I knew what marriage was.’

I don’t remember what exactly possessed me to write this line, but once it did I knew it was going to murder you all in cold blood. I really enjoyed all the comments about this one. :D

“Always,” is what she says instead. “I mean I didn’t know what it was, but I was always drawn to other girls, always wanted their attention, wanted to be close to them.”

This is such a mood.

Nodding pensively, Catra stares into the darkness. After a moment she murmurs, “Yeah, me too.”

If only she was saying that to what Adora was thinking, not what she said. Because there’s no way Catra could know, right? She’s smart, but she’s not a mindreader. If she was she probably would have kicked Adora out of her room years ago for being a pervert.

Adora she means the exact same thing as you you fucking walnut!

The crack of the bedroom door opening jolts Adora from her thoughts, making her flinch.

“Shit,” she mutters, pushing forward and flattening against the wall, against Catra. In her haste she bounces off the wall slightly and starts to tip backwards, but a pair of quick hands steadies her hips, pulling her closer. Adora’s eyes flick down to find Catra’s already on her, widened in a clear order to be quiet. Adora can barely bring herself to nod apologetically, dazed by the sight. And their proximity. And the scent of sour candies on Catra’s breath.

Because being stuck in a closet together wasn’t taking advantage of the sardines gag enough, I threw this in here. And Adora’s clumsiness provided a great opportunity for Catra to touch her in an intimate way :D. And idk why but the described experience of the smell of the sour candies on top of the close up of Catra’s eyes and them being pressed together is just overwhelming. That sour candies thing gets me every time I read it.

Suppressing the urge to groan, Adora adjusts her positioning and tips her head down so her forehead is resting against the wall, removing that temptation before it can take hold. (Oh right, that’s why it gets me every time.) She breathes deeply, as quietly as possible, praying to god that Catra will interpret her pounding heartbeat as excitement purely from the game. She can feel Catra’s heart hammering against her rib cage too, can hear it echoing in Catra’s jugular mere inches from her ear. Catra’s hands are sweaty where they’ve wound into Adora’s shirt, trembling slightly in anticipation of being caught. Catra may act like she doesn’t care that much about winning and losing, but Adora knows better than anyone just how competitive she is, how wound up she gets.

Oh for fuck’s sakes Adora. I’m glad people asked for Catra’s perspective of this scene because I think confirming in the next chapter that her body was reacting to the exact same thing Adora’s was is valuable. At least a few readers bought into the ‘Catra is competitive/traumatized about hiding in closets’ thing I had going with Adora as an unreliable narrator, so it was probably best to clear it up.

The closet door opens and they both tense, not daring to breathe. The metal hanger hooks screech along the rod as the seeker parts the sea of garments, the sound making Adora wince. The light suddenly flooding their dark space doesn’t help in that regard either. She squeezes her eyes shut with the tiniest little whimper and one of Catra’s hands taps gently against her waist, acknowledging her discomfort and offering solace.

Idk how many people have noticed but I have this running theme of Adora being especially averse to sounds as a sensory sensitivity thing. And the fact that Catra knows and consistently acknowledges it in small ways just makes my heart happy.

In seconds it’s over and the person is closing the closet door, then the bedroom door on their way out. Adora expels as heavy a breath as she dares and whispers, “Phew, that was close.” She starts to pull away and lower her arms from where she’s braced them against the wall, bracketing Catra’s head. (That visual *eyes emoji*) But she doesn’t get very far.

Catra’s arms are locked in place, fingers still clinging to Adora’s shirt. Resting her elbows on Catra’s shoulders, Adora pulls her head back to get a good look at her face. She arches her eyebrows questioningly but Catra’s eyes are fixed firmly on the opposite wall of the closet, refusing to meet hers. Frowning in concern, Adora brushes a thumb over the baby hairs on the back of Catra’s neck. “Catra?”

Still Catra doesn’t respond. Not with words anyway. It’s just a tiny movement, but when her shoulders curl forward into Adora just a little bit, Adora clues in. Sometimes you just need a hug when you’re sad. She gets it.

God damnit. Catra doesn’t want to let go because she’s yearning, not because she’s sad. Why you gotta be like this, Adora? (She says as though she didn’t write it.)

Slowly leaning back in, Adora wraps her arms around Catra’s shoulders. She sighs in relief when she feels Catra respond, relaxing in her grip and slumping slightly to rest her chin on her shoulder. Squeezing a little tighter, she nuzzles into the curve of Catra’s shoulder in response, breathing her in. Catra smells… like Catra. It’s a scent Adora could never quite put a finger on, something uniquely her, but it’s the most comforting smell she knows. It smells like safety, and tenderness, and just a little bit of mischief.

Adora could fall asleep in these arms, in the peace they bring her mind. She has, many times. When they were kids Catra ended up sleeping on her bed more often than not, sprawled half on top of Adora with her head on her chest. Though technically she was usually the one holding Catra, and Catra was often the one seeking comfort, it made Adora feel safer too. It felt a little like Catra was guarding her in the night, and the pressure pinning her to the mattress felt so good. So… secure. They’ve always been better together, perfectly suited to each other’s needs. Adora can't even imagine a life without Catra as her closest companion, and she doesn't want to.

Is that a reference to the torment of canon? Yes, yes it is. Is it also foreshadowing of how agonizing it would be for Adora if she and Catra ever had a falling out? ...maybe.

Absentmindedly brushing her fingers through Catra’s hair, Adora’s pulled out of her head by Catra’s low hum next to her ear. The long lost sound makes her lips turn up. She always used to tease Catra about how she purrs like an actual cat. Not quite, but… it’s nice. It’s soothing.

Rubbing her cheek against Catra’s ear in a similarly feline fashion, Adora chuckles, “Yeah, I miss this too.”

A quiet snort is muffled in her shoulder, Catra’s back puffing out against the arm still slung across her shoulders. “Don’t ruin it.”

“Okay,” says Adora. So she holds her close, and doesn’t say another word.

Maybe this is all she’ll ever get from Catra, holding and comforting her after others have hurt her. But it’s enough. It has to be.

Adora, NO, shut up! She loves you!

Ughhhh well this scene is super cute and super frustrating, both of which want to make me throw things. But that’s very on brand for this fic.

[annaadamsauthor713]

What We Do in the Shadows Movie Review

Opening Thoughts

I am so excited to get to return to doing Movie Reviews! I wanted to start off with my most favorite vampire movie of all time; What We Do in the Shadows. This movie is, in my humble opinion, the overall best vampire movie ever made, and I will fill this post with my arguments for this.

Watching Thoughts (Spoiler Alert!)

Such detailed sets and costumes. Lots of love with into this. The first reason this is the overall best vampire movie is because so many different types of vampires are represented, meaning it doesn’t matter what kind of vampires you like, there’s a character in there for every vampire fan. Relate-able. I also have an extreme aversion to dishes. ‘Vampires don’t do Dishes’ is a new motto of mine. Vlad is definitely the most quotable vampire. So many hilarious lines like ‘I was known as Vladislav the Poker.’ I LOVE the opening music in this. Another great thing I love about this movie is the human emotion these vampires seem to explode with. Ah yes, gotta have the sweet vampire x human love story for those romance lovers. Perfectly punctuated with an awkward trumpet. Something that people like to try to hide is the fact that vampires are awkward. By removing all humor, most vampire movies come off as waaaay too hoity-toity. This movie doesn’t take itself so seriously that they can’t make us laugh and enjoy the story they are telling us. They also make fun of the trope that vampirism makes you immediately a hunk or babe. A Trope which I think is a damaging thing. It keeps vampires boring and gate-kept. Where’s my cleft lip vampires? My midget vampires? Vampires with acne scars? Vampires who aren’t the hottest hottie hot who ever hotted hot? What We Do in the Shadows doesn’t have a glass ceiling saying who can and can’ be a part of the hellish legions. I would like a more in-depth look into the media of this universe. If they can find a vampire feeding on a man in the street, what is daily life for humans like there other than needing door-men to keep vampires out of the bar? Why are humans still in town? Does the vampire hunter that comes in later get paid? Is that is day job? And is Anne Rice a vampire in this universe? (Jackie named her daughter Akasha so we have to assume Anne Rice was still famous but was she still human?????) Ah, pedo hunter. That is one of the jobs I would love to have if I was a vampire. Clean up those streets! How does Jackie’s hubby feel about his wife having a master? Viago is a wonderful vampire but I find his method of finding prey to be the creepiest of the flat-mates. He reminds me of the boys who would pretend to like you while they orchestrated how to get you in bed. Every moment had a motive, and no matter what you said about your wants or needs, he’s going to take what he wants. Especially in modern times, vampires are a way to hide our sexuality in fiction, and the manipulative undertones of the romantic vampire did not escape my notice. Peter moves so smoothly through the window all I can imagine is him being pushed on a skateboard to get that silhouette. Which makes me laugh every time. The dinner scene is my favorite. Absolutely hilarious notes on virginity, mispronunciation of spaghetti, a great and blatant theft from the Lost Boys, and some really great special effects. By far the funniest scene in the movie. Not to mention, it runs into the best dance sequence of all time lol. Deacon and I would be best buds. As you may end up noticing in my novels, I am HERE for vampire turning scenes. I love how different it is for every story and even every vampire. Such a personal and extreme experience. I love it. When I was a kid I loved the idea that vampires can fly, but now that I am an adult I can only accept it if vampirism is a magical infection, not a scientific one. Luckily, these vampires can do all kinds of magic tricks so it’s fine and doesn’t bother me. Stew tickles me pink. He’s so confused. What would a modern vampire story be without the dance club? Sad and without dancing, that’s what. What is the point of living forever if you don’t truly enjoy the arts? I like the idea that the arts move vampires differently than people because it is the only way they can truly connect to humans, and their eternal lives allow them to have deeper layers of emotions that are stroked by artistic immersion. We even get a little vampires vs werewolf action for those who like that enemy dynamic (even though vampires and werewolves are rooted in the exact same myths, let them keep imagining this fight. Says a lot about the nature of humans to fight the self.) If a lion can be friends with a gazelle when not starving, so can a vampire be friends with a person, and I am here for it. Go Stew. Deacon and Nick are so similar in the root of who they are. Deacon is jealous of Nick and Nick is jealous of Stew. Deacon is just older and more careful. I would be a terrible vampire. People already grow up too fast around me while I sit in my house in dark rooms lol. My human pets would die left and right while I just kinda lost sense of time. Enter the other reason this movie is so good. Up until now it has been very funny with a few moments of gore and questionable morality. But now we get to see some sadness, which no vampire movie should be without. This movie balances humor with some gut wrenching scenes, like here where Nick can’t eat his favorite food anymore. They take a funny puking scene and make it sad and relate-able. The romance of vampires is stripped in this movie and they are shown for us for what they truly are or can be if we just let them; complex, strange, sat monsters that can hold our secret human feelings. Vampires help us explore humanity, sexuality, and mortality. They are our fears and our desires. They are us. Death is what all vampires truly embody. Our fear of death and the inevitability of it. Our desire to live forever no matter the cost, and the horrid truth that no matter how long you live, the sun will find you one day. The head blur was a good and simple trick to simulate turning a head 180 degrees. Even the vampires reacting to a house visit from the police is relate-able. ‘You will not notice anything out of the ordinary,’ she said under her breath, scooting the bong under the couch with her foot. They are very good at softening very sad scenes with humor, and toning down funny scenes with sadness, another thing many vampire movies struggle to do. I would have loved a little promo pamphlet of Wellington Vampire Laws. I would have read that shit out of that. We all have our Beasts, lol. I love that the ball is held in just some rental hall like a regular ol wedding or something. Not in a cemetery or an old gothic hall. Nope, there’s finger sandwiches and banners. I wish they would have touched on the fact that they treat witches as inhuman? I wanna know more. Again, vampires embody our fear of death, which includes our fear of age. It is inevitable, that as you age, you will outlive your friends, or they will outlive you. No one escapes without losing someone. Vampires allow us to face and figure out that fear a little bit (hopefully) before it happens to us and our loved ones. Loss is universal. No vampire movie could contend for overall best without exploring loss and how it deeply effects our lives. And we can’t feel loss without first feeling love. Loss and love are at the heart of what a vampire needs to touch our hearts. Without it they are just monsters. But a perfect movie wouldn’t end on a sour or somber note, in my opinion, and What We Do in the Shadows delivers a lovely and light-hearted wrap-up to the best vampire movie ever made.  

Closing Thoughts

It doesn’t matter what kind of vampire fan you are, whether you’re an Anne Rice fan, only like pre-1900’s vamps, a fan of the vamp vs wolf stories, or a twi-hard, you have something for you in this movie. If you like romance, or the chase, or drama, or comedy, you have something for you here. If you like theater art or music, this movie has lots of special effects, acting tricks, and amazing music. It explores deep themes while never losing the pace of humor. It has adult jokes but not so many you couldn’t show it to your mom. And the credits aren’t boring, filled with more scenes and great jams. Leave a comment, reblog, or send me an ask and tell me; what do you think is overall the best vampire movie ever made. Do you agree with me or do you have something else in mind?

[writeanapocalae]

Inktober: Laced Drink

Warning for robot body horror, poisoning, and alcohol use

They were at a bar, they were having a good time, celebrating Hopkin’s retirement. Gavin didn’t much care for Hopkins but his partner would be quick in saying that he didn’t much care for anybody. That wasn’t true. He cared for Tina, who was already too drunk to keep quiet, and he cared about Nines, who was sitting next to him at the bar, watching the scene unfold. Truly, they were being far too loud for a normal party, but there had been so much stress and other than Anderson and the androids, everyone was drinking like the prohibition was going to start back up the next day.

There were a few other patrons there, all of them glaring or laughing along. This wasn’t really a party bar normally, but it was close to the station and one that Hopkins frequented apparently. Gavin laughed, or guffawed, as he saw Tina try to get a complete stranger to dance with her, leaning back, his back against the bar, his hand landing solidly on Nines’ thigh.

The android didn’t react. He looked at Gavin and then the rest of the room, but it’s LED didn’t even blip differently. It was nothing, there was nothing to respond to.

The stranger said yes and Tina dancing was even funnier than her asking a strange woman to join her. It did start a series of others to get up and dance as well though. Gavin wasn’t going to, he was fine where he was, making faces and fun of his coworkers making fools of themselves. He was fine where he was, really. But then Connor was there, a hand extended, asking him in that polite but almost human way to dance with him. He looked to Nines and Nines still didn’t respond. In fact, his eyes were now on the floor. He didn’t want to dance with Gavin, he was too much of a machine, even though he had been turned deviant almost immediately after activation. Gavin still didn’t know what all that meant.

He took Connor’s hand and allowed himself to be pulled towards the others. He was still trying to make up for how he’d treated Connor in the beginning, surely a dance couldn’t hurt their shitty relationship.

It felt good to dance, to be a part of things. He felt like a pretty decent dancer, either because he was less drunk or because Anderson was absolutely atrocious and the androids were copying drunk humans with absolutely no experience. He wondered if he’d get teased in the morning, if anyone would remember tonight enough to get him crap for having fun for once instead of swearing and flipping them off. That would be his response, at least.

A flicker of yellow while he spun. A blinding flash of red between blinks while he sang along with some song that was so old that he knew all the words from osmosis.

Another turn and he caught on, looking over at whatever must have been the problem. Nines was still sitting at the bar but now he was sitting next to some stranger. The man had a smirk on his lips, similar to the one that Gavin tended to wear. He was handsome in a way that Gavin wasn’t though, and dressed a little bit better, and he had his hand on Nines’ while they spoke. It made a knot in Gavin’s stomach twist. He had felt jealousy before, when Anderson got a promotion and he didn’t, at friends genuinely enjoying one anothers company, at the way that words and kindness came so easily to some people. It felt a lot like this, though this was far sharper.

He had no need to feel jealousy though. Sure the guy was flirting up a storm and Nines was drinking something blue, probably straight up thirium, without moving away from the stranger’s touch, but the LED was bright red and spinning. Gavin wasn’t so good at telling Nines’ emotions, but that was a pretty good tell that he wasn’t interested, that he was uncomfortable, that he didn’t want this man’s attention.

Gavin swam against the crowd of coworkers, stumbling a bit as the alcohol hit him harder because of the exercise, but making his way to the bar. When he got there he half draped himself against Nines’ chest, arm wrapped around his shoulders. Nines didn’t like physical attention very much, but the LED blinked instead of spun and that had to be better, right?

“Are you alright, Detective Reed?” Nines asked. He had gotten it into his head to not scan Gavin at all times but he hadn’t figured out to call Gavin by name, even though Gavin told him too all the time.

“Nah,” Gavin smiled, the charming smile of someone who wanted to get into a fist fight with a stranger. “Some asshole is spending time with my party pooper of a partner.”

“We were just talking,” the stranger growled, “Surely you cant have a problem with that.”

Gavin looked him over. His hair was shorter, his jaw stronger, his everything stronger, than Gavin’s and he knew that if he were to throw the first punch he wouldn’t be throwing the last. But Nines’ LED was now cycling between yellow and red so he must have been doing something right.

“You weren’t and I don’t have to be a detective to see that,” Gavin argued. “If there was a disco ball in here the whole bar would be bathed in red so don’t give me shit.”

The stranger blinked. Nines LED spun in a way that he knew meant that he was processing something. Then it froze solid finally, but stuck half yellow and half red. He’d never seen it stop like that before.

“That doesn’t make any sense Detective.” Nines stated.

Gavin just waved it off, “Doesn’t matter. I want you to get away from my partner.”

The guy put up his hands and got up away from the counter. “Fine, fine. Not my fault it didn’t mention it was in a relationship.”

It? For someone who had seemed so interested in Nines, he didn’t seem to respect pronouns much.

He put his hand on Nines’ shoulder. “You okay?”

Nines picked up his drink, swirling it a moment before he brought it to his lips and drained it. His LED swirled for a moment and then went back to blue. “I’m fine. Now. You noticed that I was uncomfortable.”

“You know you can say no, right?” Gavin ruffled his hair. It didn’t work, the strands falling back into their perfect places. “He buy you a drink?”

Nines nodded. “I know that I do not have to accept a drink or a conversation from a man, Detective. I still have a hard time saying no to people though. I feel it’s something deficient with my programming.”

Gavin looked him over. “You’re not a machine though, you’re a deviant. You don’t have to follow anyone’s orders. Phck, you never follow mine.”

Nines eyes were on the floor again. “It’s not just my mechanical nature. It is caused by my personality algorithm, as small as it is, the desire to be seen as useful, proficient, and appeasing are high on my list.”

“Again, you never follow mine.”

Nines slid elegantly off of his stool, landing on his feet gracefully. “That is because you are an asshole.”

Gavin rolled his eyes at that, trying not to snort with laughter. It was rare when Nines swore and when he did it was hilarious, even if that one was barely a swear at all.

“You want to dance with us?” Gavin offered. “No pressure, y’know. You just looked like a sad puppy left out in the shitter over here by yourself.”

“I-”

There was no gradient. There was no blue, yellow, red. There was just blue and then bright red flashing, and Nines was putting his hand to his mouth, blue pouring out of his mouth, in between his fingers.

Gavin would have laughed at that, mostly because he was drunk and had been there, throwing up from one drink too many, but he wasn’t so drunk as to ignore the way that the LED was flashing, faster than he’d ever seen. And there was panic in Nines’ usually emotionless eyes. And he was grabbing for Gavin. And he was catching something in the thick stream of thirium. He’d never seen thirium be thick before.

“Woah woah woah!” The bartender was shouting at them, but Gavin didn’t care, he was grabbing Nines by the shoulders and dragging him to the bathroom, ignoring the way that the dancers went silent, all staring at him helping his almost prim and proper partner get to the restroom. There was a spattering of blue in their wake, leading a trail to them. It wasnt’ like they were hiding at all though.

Gavin got Nines to his knees in front of one of the toilets. Nines released his mouth and let the thirium run. It was definitely too thick.

And chunky.

Nines opened up his hand, fingers died blue. There were shards in his fingers, not glass but something sharp and clear. Gavin fell to his knees next to him, running a hand in circled on his back. He knew what to do if someone was throwing up, he’d been there enough times to be used to it, but he didn’t know what this was. Nines wasn’t throwing up, there was no pause in it, and there was no relenting. This was more thirium than one glass. This was enough to have been going into his actual systems.

The door flew open and Connor was rushing into the room, sliding to his knees on Nines other side.

“What happened?” Connor asked, pulling Nines’ sleeve up. Nines was averse to touch, Gavin probably wasn’t as soothing as he thought he was being, but he was much more averse to interfacing. Gavin had only seen him do it once and the android who had initiated it had to go in for repairs after. Gavin had asked, but Nines just shrugged and said that he’d pushed the android out a bit too hard.

“Someone gave him a drink. I’m guessing it was laced with something, but I have no idea what. Shouldn’t he have recognized it with his sensors or something?”

Connor wrapped his fingers around Nines’ wrist and closed his eyes. The skin peeled away from both of them, revealing bone white chassis, and Connor’s LED started to flash in the same painful strobe as Nines did. His face scrunched up, he was so much easier to read than Nines was, and he looked like he was in pain. After a few moments, after what felt like it was far too long, Gavin wanted to shove Connor away, but he didn’t know if that would make things worse.

Connor pulled back on his own, his LED calming and switching to a yellow and slow pulse.

“He’s been poisoned. Those shards are a compound that has crystalized in his systems, from a chemical reaction from different forms of thirium.”

“So like, a blood transplant that’s gone wrong?” Gavin asked. He’d seen pictures of what happened when that happened, a bit of morbid curiosity brought on by a bout of insomnia and too much thinking.

“Similar, yes. But since androids ingest the chemical that is intended to be their blood its happening far faster.”

Gavin brushed Nines hair back. He couldn’t hold it back for him, but there had to be some way that he could comfort his partner.

“How did he not notice?”

Nines closed his eyes, looking disappointed on top of everything else, as if he knew that he should have noticed it.

“The difference in the substances is extremely minor, it would be easy to miss if he was distracted. That man, Steven Matthews, was doing a good job of distracting him with that conversation. Guessing by how he objectified Nines and bought him the drink, I would assume that he knew that this would be the reaction.”

Gavin moved his hand from Nines’ back to his jaw, running his fingers along the strong angles. He was expecting Nines to pull away from him, not lean into the touch as much as he could as he continued to bleed out into the toilet.

“Does it hurt?”

Nines opened his eyes and stared Gavin in the eyes. He didn’t need Connor to tell him how it felt.

“It’s like having shards of ice grow in your veins, tearing you apart from the inside. It’s agony.”

Gavin’s eyes were burning. It was suddenly very hard for him to see, so much fluid in them that any blink would make him start to cry. He didn’t want to cry. He didn’t want to admit that he was afraid, or that he cared.

“What can we do?” Gavin asked, tearing his attention away from Nines and over to Connor.

“Wait, unfortunately,” Connor didn’t touch Nines, but he did put his hand on Gavin’s shoulder, as if it was the human that needed to be taken care of. “I contacted the closest tech team the moment I noticed that there was a situation, they should be here any minute now. Hank is on the floor, keeping the others from coming in and causing a scene and will direct them here.”

“Phck. Worst case scenario?”

“It wasn’t a metaphor that his blood is tearing him apart,” Connor said, voice suddenly quiet. “It’s going to be extensive repairs for an android that doesn’t have spare parts. They’re going to have to rebuild a lot of his external pieces. Worst case is death, of course but ignoring that is a long long recovery time and possibly not a complete rebuild.”

Gavin heard a few enthusiastic shouts from the bar. That must have been the techs arriving. It wouldn’t be much longer.

“You’re going to be okay,” Gavin lied because he knew that Nines had heard what Connor said. “You’ll see, they’re going to make you all shiny and new inside.” He pressed a small kiss to the LED and pretended that he didn’t see Connor staring. He’d never kissed Nines before. He didn’t want to kiss Nines like that. Hell, until that moment he didn’t realize that he even wanted to kiss Nines.

The techs finally got to the them, door opening and orders being given. Nines was pulled away from the toilet and laid down on his back. The techs immediately got to work, right there in front of them. They cut Nines’ shirt off of him and pulled out his thirium pump, the entire thing looking like a solid crystal.

Gavin tried to leave, to get out of the way, just a few steps, but Nines was reaching out, head falling to the side as they attached an external pump, one that was full of thirium. He was staring at Gavin, the thirium coming from his mouth finally a slow trickle. He could see inside of his mouth, see more crystals in there, as the silence wasn’t from pain or an unwillingness, but from his mouth being completely plugged with the chemical reaction.

When Gavin didn’t understand what Nines needed, he started to clench his fist, a sound like a whimper gurgling out of him. The techs were shouting to one another, and Nines skin was fading away from his arms and chest so they could open him up. He could see what looked like spooks being pressed to Nines’ insides, as they scraped what they could clean.

The whine grew worse. Nines was having a hard time moving his hand, everything inside of it freezing up. It must have been torturous just to try to move.

A hand grabbed him by the wrist and Connor dragged him closer, placing Gavin’s hand against Nines’. The broken gurgling sound softened slightly, the knot of his brows relaxing. Gavin was a detective, not an idiot, he knew what to do in that moment, finally. He wrapped his fingers around Nines and he held on for dear life. Nines didn’t hold his hand back, his fingers too frozen to clasp him, but he didn’t break eye contact, and Gavin only shifted out of the way when the techs needed him to get out of the way.

[joeys-piano]

Answering an Ask from @feu-eau. I’m having to answer your thingy through a text post because I don’t want to hassle your ask because Tumblr will mess up a lot of formatting when I do.

Feu’s Ask: For the shippy ask; how about a classic? Soukoku

When did I start shipping them, if I did Probably, January 2019? I think I started watching Bungou Stray Dogs last year in January and around that time, I transitioned from Detroit: Become Human to the BSD fandom. Coincidentally, there was a Soukoku Fluff Event Week happening so my first content for the fandom was for this ship.

Now that I think about it, maybe I joined the fandom in February because the whole fluff thing would work for Valentines’ instead. I don’t really know. I’m honest when I tell y’all that I only shipped them because I saw a lot of other people ship them and because I didn’t really have any ships at the time, Soukoku became my first one for BSD. I’ve grown a lot in a year and I know things a little better now. I don’t actively ship Chuuya and Dazai together; but since those two are so abundant on Tumblr and Twitter and AO3, I find stuff for them regardless if I’m looking for them.

So the long answer is that I don’t actively look for this pairing, this pairing comes to me, and I just share with y’all some really cool arts, gifs, cosplays, AMVs, fanfic, and everything else that I enjoyed viewing.

My Thoughts Like I mentioned above, I’m not an active fan for this ship. However, I do enjoy some content. Since the pairing that I do like doesn’t get as much new content regularly, there have been weekends where I just go into the Soukoku tag on AO3 and just read any and all fics that catch my attention. I’ve found really good ones and found new writers that I want to support, I’ve found stories that aren't to my taste but I know I’m not the target audience, I’ve found fics that I admire a lot, I’ve found fics that make me question if I enjoy a certain tag or not, and miscellaneous from there.

Because of the nature of Soukoku and the appeal behind it, there’s always going to be new content for it and it’ll almost always be one of the first things you encounter from the BSD fandom if you’re an outsider and are looking in. It’s just there. There’s an abundance of it. It’s like any other fandom you find yourself in. There’s going to be a really big ship and there’s going to be an abundance of it. One benefit I get from Soukoku is that although I’m mildly interested in it, that abundance of material and the sheer variety of it helps to temporarily fill in a void that’s either hard or impossible for me to fill from my favorite pairing.

Sometimes I want to consume a piece of fan content for my favorite pairing, but it’s not there. One of the benefits of a large ship is that undoubtedly, it’s there. Or otherwise, it’s going to be there. So whenever I’m twiddling my thumbs and waiting for new content for Odazai or other smaller ships and rarepairs that I do enjoy, I temporarily fill in the void with Soukoku. It’s like -- and pardon the example -- Soukoku is a bag of chips or complementary peanuts or buns that you snack on until you get what what you’re waiting for. Satisfies for a while until you can sink your teeth into what you really want. That’s how I interact with Soukoku.

What Makes Me Happy About Them I don’t know. I do enjoy that there’s history between them and that they could read each other like an open book. Chuuya and Dazai are familiar with each other, they’ve worked together, and are probably intimately aware of each other’s strengths and flaws. To some extent.

I do enjoy some of the rare easy-going moments that we get from both of them, where there’s some reminiscent vibe going on even if it’s in a teasing manner to rile a certain someone. For the most part, I’m not sure what makes me happy about them.

What Makes Me Sad About Them Again, I don’t really know. I guess if I had to give an answer, what disheartens me a bit is how we lost a potential of what could’ve been. Not sure how to explain that and not meaning it in a romantic light, but the way Dazai left the Mafia and severed ties with almost everyone there, I feel like there may’ve been a shift or even an apology between him and Chuuya that’s now lost. To say that they could’ve been friends is stretching it, but I feel that there may’ve been a development behind the scenes that could’ve manifested as something akin to friendship. Not exactly friendship, but something along a similar vein since they joined the Mafia for identically different reasons and they’re more alike than you’d initially notice.

Character composition-wise, that similarity is really hard to see. But I spent some time thinking about it for the past 7 months and I think if I were to peel every layer of their beings like an onion, I know I will find a similarity that connects them very deeply to one another and it’s very, very loosely referenced or seen in the Fifteen arc before the thread gets lost from there. Again, I don’t think it’s romantic. But it’s something and that something could’ve been realized if Dazai didn’t leave the Mafia. But considering what happened at the end of Dark Era, Dazai saw it as his best option to leave and so he did.

Things Done in Fanfic That Annoys Me Chuuya is often written in a really strange way. He’s hotheaded and acts before he thinks, but that doesn’t mean he’s stupid or clueless. He would’ve been dead a long time ago if he was either or Hell forbid, both. With an ability like For the Tainted Sorrow, you know Chuuya’s mind is whizzing around, calculating trajectory and physics, so he knows how much power to put behind his attacks to get what he wants to achieve. When your ability is a force of nature, you wield it differently and you strategize your offense and defense differently. There’s a lot of thinking going on, and I really don’t buy it when Chuuya’s made out to be dumb.

Things I Do Look For in Fanfic General pacing, how does the story flow, how does the writer approach the topic or endgame of their fic, does characterization feel believable, does the story engage my imagination, etc… I like reading how writers approach emotional intimacy between Chuuya and Dazai and how they approach the unresolved tension between them.

Who I’d be comfortable them ending up with, if not each other: Odazai all the way, baby. For Chuuya, I’d be comfortable if he ended up with Yosano, Kunikida, or even Akutgawa.

My happily ever after for them: Chuuya waking up after using Corruption and realizing that Dazai did take care of him when he was out cold. He wakes up in a familiar bed somewhere in a hospital or an infirmary. His clothes are folded neatly on a chair and the patient gown he’s wearing is soft and doesn’t itch his skin. Chuuya’s sore. He’s always sore after using Corruption, but he can feel that this sore will remain for a long time after he leaves and rehabilitates so he can be back on the field. His mouth is unbearably dry. Before Chuuya could stir, someone is already pouring him a cup of water and is helping him sit up so he can drink. It’s Dazai and he tips the cup slowly so that Chuuya can drink at his own pace.

Dazai isn’t known for his bedside manner. If anything, he’s known for his complete disregard of it. But seeing him here, Chuuya’s a little thankful for it. He doesn’t ask why Dazai’s here. The man’s not going to give him a straight answer anyway. When Chuuay lies down to rest some more, he’s aware that Dazai will be here for a while. Since he’s quiet, Chuuya doesn’t mind.

who is the big spoon/little spoon: Dazai is the little-tall spoon who’s aversed to touch but sometimes, he can tolerate being hugged by Chuuya for a little while. Chuuya is the big-short spoon that gives Dazai a little hug to remind him that he’s human and that he’s here.

what is their favorite non-sexual activity: Listening to the strum of a guitar while Chuuya hums a song he caught on the radio and Dazai’s leaning against him, feeling the music slowly permeate through his skin and gives him something to hang onto during those slow moments caught between them.

[comicteaparty]

April 18th-April 24th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble  chat that occurred from April 18th, 2020 to April 24th, 2020.  The chat focused on the following question:

What are your personal rules of thumb for determining whether a certain page needs a maturity or trigger warning?

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i have no rule of thumb and i'm really curious to read what other people think about this

Deo101 [Millennium]

I usually ask people if they think it needs one, and I only ask if it is significantly different than what I've been doing.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I guess it depends on the subject and the severity. There are the basic ones, like rape, excessive gore, suicide, graphic sex, common phobias, etc. Things that can very easily trigger a large group of people or are generally not allowed in PG-13 movies. But there are other times I don't know if putting a warning or labeling it as mature is necessary. For example, profanity, suggestive material, violence (that doesn't involve gore), and again typically things that can make it into a PG-13 movie. Once it starts to be graphic enough to move into the realm of rated R, that's when you should start putting warnings. My problem with warnings as a creator is that the warnings can kind of spoil the contents of the chapter, so I try not to use them unless what happens in the comic could potentially harm a large number of people by not warning them.

RebelVampire

As a reader I do want to chime in say I agree with that last part. Whenever I see warnings, they are very spoilery so there's no surprise when I get to the warning part of the chapter/episode/page. I expected it so it loses some of its emotional value for me. Or, on the flipside, is so minor it shouldn't have had a warning that its ultimately underwhelming and disappointing.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Yeah, that's exactly why I'm wary about it

I am very sparing with my warnings, because I don't want the readers to lose any of that emotional impact.

carcarchu

my target audience for my webcomic is middle schoolers so the content i produce is never something i feel i need to put trigger warnings for. personally i think you don't really need to tag things unless the content is significantly different from what is expected from the comic. like if it starts out a lighthearted romp and then suddenly there's beserk levels of violence that probably ought to have some warning

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

I would probably put a CW for blood, gore etc. Of any level just to be safe. Different people have different sensitivities, and as a sex-averse ace I know I often would like CW on sexual/sex-adjacent content that others might not think was enough to need one so. I just err on the side of caution

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I specifically never put warnings in anything I write. If something I write deeply upsets someone or makes them extremely uncomfortable, that's a good thing. It means I've done my job in expressing and conveying the emotional context I set out to accomplish in most circumstances.

My background is poetry and I've only ever read a single book that had any warnings attached, and that was at the beginning of the book, not for each poem. Even then, it was from an author who was particularly, er, well a bit off their rocker.

Like, if you open a collection of poetry and you're surprised to see heavy topics covered...that's your own fault at that point.

If I had opened one of my favourite collections, The Flame by Leonard Cohen, and saw content warnings, I would have probably said in my head "Why the fuck is this here?" and "Well, no shit that's in here, this is Leonard Cohen."(edited)

My job is to convey and express regardless of what the reader might think. It's never my job to guide or warn them, it's my job to present to them.

Fiction, outside of that catered to younger audiences, tends to contain a lot of stuff that can be deeply uncomfortable to the reader (yes, even comedy). I've read stuff that's really gotten to me emotionally, and that's OK, that's a good thing, the author presented what they intended to (G-d knows they did). If you don't want that, then really, you just have to be cognizant of the fiction you're reading and remember that stories about life often have all aspects of life in them.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I have read things (though mostly non-fiction) that have made me want to cry or so sick that I felt the need to vomit. The author didn't warn me of that. They presented what they had without pretext nor excuse. They did their job. Those are very much extremes, but the point is that I consensually opened those texts knowing that might happen. I mean, it's not hard to look at the subject matter or what the reviews say and think "Hm, OK, this book isn't all sugar and roses". Frankly, though, I just feel that the content warnings and all tarnish the authenticity of a text that stands on its own.

Sorry for the rambling, but admittedly, I do include a content warning for that in my username!

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

I don‘t do content warnings, but I try to make sure to be upfront about the type of story people can expect.

Seen the results of someone springing a graphic, surprise character-gets-raped-to-death into until then fluffy childfriendly story for „trolololOLOL, I made you have a FEEL, I am an ARTISTE.“

It‘s disrespectful to the reader at best, after all they need to be able to make an informed decision if they opt in or not.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Alright, that's plain bad writing, but dramatic tone shifts can and are used effectively.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I thought about content warning because I have seen comics that was upsetting to me and readers, and there was no trigger warning. Just a side note in the first chapter that the author explain that 'their characters' weren't a representation of every trans experience. But still had backlash for it. So some content warning when it comes to sensitive stuff like trauma, gender disphoria should be stated somewhere? I wasn't Trans but effected, I assume it was worse for trans readers seeing uncomfortable scenes that remind them of bad experiences.(edited)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

When I was younger, I used to be into a lot of animated stuff, and there was this one anime (don't judge, I was like fourteen) called Steins;Gate that, for the first half, is relatively comedic and lighthearted, before a very dramatic tone-shift in one episode where most of the main cast die on-screen and it becomes a conspiracy/time-travel thriller. It was actually very, very good, and it's an incredibly popular show because of it.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yeah. I think this is what content warnings are coming from: trying to enable the reader to make an informed decision of they wanna opt in to a story or not. It‘s a matter of consent.

They‘re not perfect, but better than nothing.

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

I agree with @chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa] here on the point that it's about being able to knowingly consent to a potentially unpleasant experience

Deo101 [Millennium]

Honestly I'd rather have a small spoiler at the end of the page before Something happens than potentially hurt someone

Again, only if it's really tonally dissonant

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

There's plenty of things I don't mind if I'm aware of it beforehand so I can make sure I'm in a good headspace, but the same things could totally put me off a story/creator and give me issues for months if I wasn't expecting them

Source: personal experience

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Webcomics are probably very different, but I'd find it would put me off a lot in poetry (and it's also something you don't see in it; it's just not a part of the industry culture). But people having negative emotions from reading is very commonplace and par for the course.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

But I also feel that content warning do give away bit of spoiler. I was taught the good way to protray an incoming dark topic is to give hints along the chapters, rather than 'spring it out of the blue'. I haven't written anything super dark/angst before though. It's uncomfortable for me and I haven't cross that threshold of feeling yet(edited)

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

Personally I feel like if your story or scene or whatever relies so heavily on the shock of specific content that it would be ruined by the "spoiler" potential of a content warning, it's bad writing

Deo101 [Millennium]

I feel like stories in general are not ruined by spoilers, though some people don't like them. But if we're in a scene and we're gonna see someone get cut in half and you say "hey this battle has extreme violence" that's hardly a spoiler

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Not always. Shock, if it's not in bad taste, can be used as a device to help set the emotional context for the rest of the passage. It's bad writing to use it bombastically and haphazardly, but in light touches, like a ghost pepper, it can help. On its own, though, yeah it's usually bad writing.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Since comics are visual there is more need for this kind of a thing because it can be more intense for readers

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Ah, yeah, that's true. My field doesn't have visuals.

I can imagine it may be different in that case.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Also, think like. Movies also have this, that's what the rating system is

A movie rated r for extreme violence isn't a spoiler

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Especially if it has Tom Cruise in it.

RebelVampire

Yes but imagine if the movie paused right before the worst parts to say "Hey this is gonna be a mature scene"

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Age ratings ARE content warnings.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Tv shows do it at the beginning of an episode

And, with comics you have natural pauses

Putting a small banner at the bottom of an update doesn't interrupt the flow the same way putting it at the top of one would, and it can prep people to know not to even open the next update kind of thing

I haven't done content warnings my content is only pg13 but I've thought a lot about it for future, more intense ideas

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

In Germany‘s there are no tv show content warnings, but certain stuff can only be aired after 20:30 or on dedicated channels.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I agree with @RebelVampire . In my favourite movie of all time by far which you 100% have to watch (IT'S REALLY GOOD!!!) On the Waterfront, there's one scene which really gut-punched me when I first watched it because it's, well, fairly disturbing, but if the movie stopped before it and some dude came up and said "B'ys, cover your children's eyes", that'd be ridiculous. Age warnings pre-screening are fine because it's an audiovisual form, but considering that text doesn't have that visual or audio component, I just don't see the need. I can understand why you would do it as a comic artist, though.

Deo101 [Millennium]

There are also, for movies and TV, sites like "does the dog die?" Which provide this kind of information for people with triggers. Comics don't have this kind of a site though so it's on the creator

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

That reminds me, I need to put Nyx+Nyssa‘s age rating note up. g

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

People with triggers are the sticking point for me. Even if most people would be okay, there's people who won't be and I don't want to act like they don't matter when I'm putting warnings on my content. I feel like it's my responsibility if I'm making that content.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yup. I know someone with cPTSD who cannot engage with media without content warnings; because disassociation is NOT fun and dangerous. „Does the dog die“ and similiar things mean she can engage with media without having to rope in others as betas.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yes, same here. Obviously you can't warn for everything, many people have obscure and specific triggers, but there are common ones that are generally sensitive subjects that I don't think it's bad to warn a bit about

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I don't think it is your responsibility, but rather those with triggers to be careful. I'm a trauma victim and I do have triggers, but you know, I can't expect everyone to know that (especially with how hilariously specific they are). If you're worried, do your research

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

There‘s a huge difference between being responsible of for someone and being mindful for someone.

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

As someone who has triggers as well - I'd prefer to be able to see at a glance. It's awful having to be on guard constantly and worried about what if you didn't do your research quite well enough

Deo101 [Millennium]

I personally only read comics on reccomendation because of mine

They're not common ones but I've never been annoyed by trigger warnings that aren't for me

It usually looks much different from the comic so you can just quick look and scroll past

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I really understand that and I can understand it in the context of your industry because it has that visual component, but in the context of mine it's not done because content warnings wouldn't really make much sense for my industry. What will annoy me is when trigger warnings are uploaded for every part of the webcomic. Like, that's a little extreme.

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

I understand it's very different context for poetry - but I'm talking about comics

Deo101 [Millennium]

I would agree that uploading for every page would be extreme, but I would think I'm that case it would be at the start of the comic or in the description

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

About pages! They exist for a reason.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

At the beginning of the entire comic, if you want to, that's fine. I think it does change the mindset of the reader and can be detrimental to the story in some cases, but if you know it's not, then that's fine! Of course, that problem can be solved just like @chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa] just suggested: put it on the About page.

Yeah, no, I could get behind that.

For webcomics, I think that would be a good solution.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Some sites don't offer about pages, though, and if it's not a major theme and only in a small part it's nice to put it in the comic itself too

Like my comic is generally very light-hearted but coming up I do have a scene that's significantly more violent than the rest of the comic has been, and I debated whether or not to warn my readers about it

I don't want to put a violence warning in my description though because it would draw the wrong audience

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I mean, it really depends. If it's suddenly looks like the notes of a medical student, then put a warning, but some light violence is probably fine.

Others could probably give a better opinion on that though.

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Yup. I liked how dumbing of age handled it‘s suicide warning - it was specific to that particular page because it dealt with specific details as opposed the more general discussion. So that page got a small note on top. Didn‘t remove the emotional impact, but allowed people to brace themselves or opt out.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Page the Poet refuses content warnings and enjoys their readers' suffering (/s).

All jokes aside, what do you mean about some sites not offering About pages? I'm not well-versed on hosting web-comics.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Well, for instance with webtoons you have a 500 (?) Character description, and that's it

Maybe it's 1500 or something idk it's been a while since I wrote mine. But it's not a seperate page like how I would have on my own site

On your own site it's awesome cause people can just, if they have triggers they can go there to see jf they're fine to read

But with webtoons, tapas, and other hosts you get one page and it's just your comic and description

So putting "violence warning" there is much different than on a seperate page

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I thought most web-comics had their own site?

Deo101 [Millennium]

I mean I do, but many don't

And most readers these days are on hosts I think

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh. Yeah, alright, I see the issue.

Deo101 [Millennium]

My description says pg13, LGBT, and slowburn and that's all it gets from me. I would be more descriptive in my about page which I do still need to code

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I'm curious, why specify the LGBT part?

Deo101 [Millennium]

But yeah so it's a very case by case basis depending on where you are and all that

Oh because I want lgbt people to know my comic has an LGBT cast and is catered to them

It's so my comic more likely finds my target audience

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

OH.

carcarchu

i think about stuff like school live and bokurano and consider that i'd be really upset if the sudden dramatic shift in tone was overtly warned beforehand because the shock factor was so important for those series in particular so i don't know how to handle warnings for stuff like that

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

That makes sense.

Please excuse my idiocy haha.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Not idiocy, it's a lot of potential to learn ;)

Carcarchu, it's really a personal choice of the author and what they want. If you don't wanna do it cause you think your story would suffer, that's totally fine. But personally and a lot of other creators agree, id rather potentially risk a slight decrease of my impact to protect some people.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You see, in poetry, it works like this: you find a journal that suits your poetry, you submit it, you don't get published, and you cry yourself to sleep. Repeat twenty odd times until you get accepted somewhere. Then, you get published there and you tend not to worry about target audiences and stuff yourself. 'Tis a foreign world to me!

RebelVampire

Yeah I agree that I think at the end its a personal choice cause you'll never please everyone whether you do or don't use warnings

carcarchu

i'm thinking about my experience reading those two series and being blown away by the sudden tone shift and really liking one of those series because of it. but then i think about my experience with madoka where i actually started watching it BECAUSE i saw a spoiler about the twist and it piqued my interest. i still enjoyed madoka but i wonder how my experience with it would have been different if i went in blind

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

@carcarchu , I'm with you. It really depends on what you can do, I think. If it's available to those who need it without expressly being there for those who don't want spoilers (An optional CW of sorts), that could work.

carcarchu

i like the idea of optional cw

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I don't know if it's an idea that could work, though, as I'm not experienced with web-comics. @Deo101 [Millennium] , your thoughts?

Deo101 [Millennium]

On a personally coded site you could probably with a lot of effort make something like that work, but that's not really so much an option on hosts

Tapas has a mature toggle where that specific page says "this contains mature content" or something, but everyone sees it

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

If it's personally coded, it should be fairly easy with a small bit of javascript, right?

Deo101 [Millennium]

And for other sites it's not an option at all other than for the entire series as a before you enter sort of deal

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I personally would put warnings Because some chapters deal with traumatic subject matter and I’ve had friends see them and warn me about those However I wouldn’t just do content warnings for something like swearing

Deo101 [Millennium]

I don't think you could code it easily, at least not with the systems I'm using.

Again the best solution I've come up with is at the end of the previous update, so people can skip over it easier and it doesn't interrupt flow the same way

carcarchu

the easiest way to do it on smth like webtoons would just to put some text on ur page that says something like "optional content warning for the next page in description, read at your own risk" but again that would spoil a potential twist

Deo101 [Millennium]

Honestly like Doesn't the twist just happen at the warning then instead of at the panel

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I think the real solution is to just not write anything.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Like it's not spoiling it it's just moving it a few lines up

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Don't even write the webcomic. Best solution.

Deo101 [Millennium]

And content warnings don't say who or how

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Perfection.

carcarchu

i might be miffed if i read TWIST INCOMING and then had to wait a week to actually see it

Deo101 [Millennium]

Just a general, vague, "what"

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Say there's triggering content, but don't say where or what. Put it on the last page too.

carcarchu

but it could potentially drum up interest like WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT WEEK

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah that's what I mean

carcarchu

idk could go either way

Deo101 [Millennium]

Not like there's a twist!

Just hey things get intense

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I don't know, it could still be triggering. I think we should just write no webcomic at all.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmmmm I never thought of that

But what if people forget about the trigger and just jump right in

carcarchu

if they forget the trigger isn't that their fault and not the creator?

Deo101 [Millennium]

People who have the trigger will remember

carcarchu

they were given ample warning

Deo101 [Millennium]

And if they do not then I did what I could

Sorry but I have a specific trigger of people watching someone sleep, I've had two people warn me their comics include it, and I remember. And that was like a year ago

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

My stupid sense of humour aside, I do agree with Deo and Carcarchu. If you forget the trigger, that's your own fault. The author making that information available is one thing, but they aren't there to hold your hand.

carcarchu

oh man that's a super common trope deo that must be rough

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah but it's cool

Like I know it's a common trope and it's not really one you can see coming or anything :/ so it's cool

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I think warnings are helpful tho if u be general like it contains a thing but u dont kno what it is till u read it

Like doe me it was doki doki lit club i didn't took seriously till it hit me and im like O

carcarchu

with dokidoki i knew about there WAS a twist but i didn't know exactly what it is so i was still shocked by it when it happened

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah like "Graphic violence" isn't a spoiler especially if you're already like 3 pages into a fight scene

carcarchu

but again they warned about it pretty vigilantly in the beginning before u play dokidoki? i'm not really sure how you could miss it?

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Yeah.

In all seriousness, I like the About page option / optional CW, but I realize that might be impossible in a lot of scenarios.

Maybe put in the description of the first page "OPTIONAL CW BELOW" for example for those who want it?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, or the page before. Only concern is people not reading it, but then again that kind of falls under the "their responsibility" section

kayotics

I’ve put one warning in before, but I kept it to promo images (so like social media update images) and in the comic description a few pages before. My reasoning was: it was tonally different & darker from the rest of the comic, but I didn’t put the warning in the pages because of the reader is paying attention, the fact that its coming is pretty obvious. Who knows if I did the right thing it handled it correctly, but I really struggled with figuring out what to do

Deo101 [Millennium]

Another concern is that some comics will run for years, decades even, and so its sometimes impossible to know at the beginning what might need to be warned for.

I think that's good Kay.

It's unobtrusive and gives the people who need it what they need

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Optional warning on the page before, then?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah that's what I said earlier I was kinda planning on doing if it ever became necessary

kayotics

That’s essentially what it was. I think I wrote a caveat that the warning was a spoiler

Deo101 [Millennium]

That makes sense

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm if you’re doing it on the page before How specific should the warning be

kayotics

I know a lot of people don’t read page descriptions, especially when binging, so I’m banking on the context of the chapter being the biggest warning

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Like do you just say optional warning?

kayotics

What I did is I said something about the the content of the next page without getting into too much detail

Deo101 [Millennium]

I see things like "warning: graphic violence, sexual content, substance abuse," etc. Stuff like that

kayotics

Yeah. Mine was graphic violence or gore or something

Deo101 [Millennium]

Where it doesn't say who or how or anything, just a vague what

Which usually, the context of the scene is around that kind of a theme anyways where we can tell it's coming

So a content warning is more like "this does get turned up to an 8 here"

Though it can be a surprise where Something like what Kay did is really good

Like okay so spoilers but be warned

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

B'y, turn it up to at least eleven. Go big or go home.

Deo101 [Millennium]

I'm on a 1-8 scale

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

But what about the saying? Heresy!

kayotics

I think in the context of my comic it felt like, to me, that I was turning it up to 8 from a 1 or 2. It’s not the MOST GRAPHIC thing I’ve ever seen, but with the entirety of the rest of the work it’s tonally different, which is why I needed the warning

My comic, at its worst, usually just sees some curses and cartoon violence.

This was, like, full on blood and gore

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I jumped straight into 12 at one point for mine whoops

kayotics

So I think context of the work is important with a warning as well

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, I'm usually around a 1-2 too. I've got pg-13 in my description and if I'm ever toeing the edge of it, I'm gonna warn about it

kayotics

If you have a violent or heavy comic already, warnings for each page is ridiculous. It’s when you turn it up that you should mention something

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah exactly

DanitheCarutor

Aaah you know, I don't put warnings on my pages, because practically half the comic would have CWs due to the focus on upsetting themes. There was one instance where I did put one up for a page containing a lot of queerphobic language presented in a way that was jarring, and potentially triggering for people who've experienced something like that. Although I've somewhat regretted singling out that one page since the comic from that point only gets worse, in hindsight that one instance isn't bad enough to warrant a warning. I'll probably take it down once I stop being lazy. In general I feel a page-by-page warning is best for comics that don't normally have heavy stuff, it makes sense to warning for violence if that's not a normal thing in your comic, it might shock readers too much otherwise. As far as content, everyone has different sensitivity levels (someone put a CW up once for a character being yelled at by his dad), personally I would only use CWs for excessive violence/abuse, blood, mental illness, suicide, rape, gore, slurs and/or substance abuse. I've gotten a lot of mixed reception on warnings, there are people who want them up, in detail, on every page with potentially upsetting content. People who want them chapter by chapter, some like detail, some want a general warning. Then there are people who don't want any warnings either due to them being too spoilery, or they feel it ruins the immersion. I went for a warning in a pop-up on my main site and leaving a list in my description on other sites, mostly for the non-spoiler crowd and because of what I said before about practically half my comic being potentially triggering.

There are two chapters coming up where I'll be putting up a general warning banner at the start of the chapter, with a hidden list of triggers in the author's notes and an option to read a safer summarized version at the end of each chapter, rather than forcing everyone to read the whole thing. Just because the content will be really difficult for some in presentation and/or subject matter, and I don't want to outright distress anyone... at least without them understanding what they're getting into.

Like, even compared to how my comic already is the next chapters will be really upsetting... for some people.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

It's not bad if people are upset or distressed. Like, full on disassociation from PTSD, obviously not, but I think these CWs are for them, not Alice Smith the average woman. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So, I feel like, because of that, the general approach is best. Adding a CW for someone getting yelled at by their father is too spoiler-y/specific in my mind.

carcarchu

i really like dani's approach with the summary at the end for people who want to know what happened but can't stomach actually seeing the nitty gritty

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Here’s the problem tho...my series literally deals with trauma healing

So there’s going to be mentions of...going to therapy, friends talking about it

Not the actual trauma itself

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Yeah, I wouldn't bother with CWs there.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

But I’m really worried that if I have to put up trigger warnings every time...a lot of pages will have that warning

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

People know what they're getting in for.

If you're going to read a comic about healing from trauma...don't be surprised at content that's not very fun.(edited)

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, my warnings are specifically for the mentally ill, people who've been in abusive situations and such. I don't want to end up bring back certain experiences, at least without them knowing what they're getting into.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm in that case I might have to put it in the summary itself then

That there’s trauma healing Of course it’s also about humor and slice of life, but I’ll add it in just in case

Would it help to get sensitivity readers to take a gander look?

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I mean, in my mind, a general synopsis of the basic plot is a good idea for a lot of stories so long as you aren't spoiling anything.

DanitheCarutor

Me? Nah, I mean, I should but it wouldn't change my decisions since my story is really tight and changing stuff would end up changing everything.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

In this case, trauma-healing seems to be a part of that plot.

So, you know, if it's mentioned, I think that's blaringly obvious at that point to people that "B'ys, there may be some triggering shit here", y' know?

DanitheCarutor

Oh, I totally misread the convo. Lol I mean, you could get a sensitivity reader if you want to be on the safe side, but if you're writing from experience and you've done research I don't see a problem with not having one.

carcarchu

having read the first few chapters of shadow's comic trauma healing was not an aspect that i picked up from it(edited)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Sensitivity reader?

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I agree, I get more light heart tone with Shadow's story, but I know stuff ahead of time(edited)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Oh nooo

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

maybe the aspects will come up as the comic progresses shadow

:0

DanitheCarutor

My comic is also about trauma and healing, and while I haven't experienced all the things my characters have, I did do a ton of research and talked to people. Although my comic is a vent comic so most of it is based off my experiences.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I've just put general content warnings in the about page and appropriately rated my comic for its content. There will be things that are written thar i have no idea that could be triggering to people that exsist in a lot of media, it almost becomes impossible to sort through. And with the amount of content to sift through that would/wouldn't be sensitive to certain topics or just generally unaware, its tricky. If there is a reader with a potentially sensitive trigger, i would hope they could get a friend to do a read through if possible, but rarely have i seen comics go right into topics that would need such a hand to do so. Stories have descriptions and ratings for that reason, you're not going to find insane violence in Pokemon type stories, so the author has that responsibility of rating it correctly is what im getting at

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Sorry, what's a sensitivity reader?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

A sensitivity reader is like, a beta reader who specifically checks whether your work is offensive/ insensitive (e.g. when you're wondering "is my portrayal of this ethnic group offensive/ignorant?")

carcarchu

i think a sensitivity reader is for when ur writing a story that includes a particular cultural or ethnic group that ur NOT part of and u want to avoid making your story culturally insensitive

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Ooh Dani, is it Guide to Unhealthy Relationship? Your comic often stand out to me. I knew what I was getting into when I read it

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I was a sensitvity reader for someone who was writing a viet american and keii pretty much sums it up

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

That's a thing? Who does that? Ethnic Studies professors?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

And it's not just for ethnic groups

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I gave suggestions to add and avoid if ya writing a character from a certain ethnic group or marginalized group

like LGBT+, persons with disabilities etc

carcarchu

ethnic groups is the first thing i thought of but yes

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

No, not ethnic studies professors.

Members of the marginalized group.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yep

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

So if you're writing a trans character, you probably want a sensitivity reader who is trans

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yep!

carcarchu

example the mangaka of golden kamuy has an ainu consultant who is ainu but i'm not sure if having a consultant is quite the same thing?(edited)

DanitheCarutor

@Joichi [Hybrid Dolls] Yeah, it is. I'm glad you were able to know! I try to make it obvious since CWs are pretty much the main themes of my comic. xD

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

i think so

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

A consultant can apply to sensitivity readers, yes, but goes beyond that

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like the mangaka saught to reprsent ainus too

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I know an MMA comic with an MMA consultant, for example

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

But couldn't two members of that group, say, Jews, say completely different things? How can you guess the information to be reliable based on their simply being a part of that group? Surely, there are things people look for when hiring these people?

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I have artist friends who are my sensitively reader and one friend who has had experience with abuse So they help me with what’s good and what’s not to write about

I have artist friends who are my sensitively reader and one friend who has had experience with abuse So they help me with what’s good and what’s not to write about

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's still gonna be WAY better than not getting any, Page.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I mean yeah but in that instance hearing from another perspective at least one person helps

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

At least you can be aware of possible....differences

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

And people who have experience as sensitivity readers know some common issues to look for, as well.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Or cross reference

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yep

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

It could be worse if the information is unreliable. What sort of qualifications does one look for?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like for me, reping viet folks and telling that to those saught viet rep in their comics

I told them "don't you freaking dare add tropes about the vietnam war I'm gonna come over to your house"

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Friend of mine was a trauma survivor that I witnessed first hand

I suppose that qualifies!

But I think it helps to ask around

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

This stems from writers writing what they think an experience/ person group is without doing research and just being ignorant and offensive and a call for ppl to do better

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah like those stories should be left to the group experienced it instead

imo

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

TBH even when you do a ton of research on your own, a sensitivity reader can help you catch things that you never even thought of researching because you were unaware It Was A Thing

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like I still read some stories then they throw like the nam joke

and i'm like "I'm droppin this"

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Yea I don't get cis ppl writing about the trans experience. Its not ur story

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

agreed ya

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm a lot of artists write from experience

Perhaps if you need a sensitivity reader for say...being bi for example

Maybe find an artist who themselves is bi(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like don't write how they got there, but write the experience they gonna deal with in the comic

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Because you get double: you get someone who’s bi and also someone who knows how to work the medium

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like i doubt cis persons have the nuance for trans folk, same goes for non-poc thinking is okay to do weird nuance things with poc

like lmao idk that's a pet peeve of mine if someone is writing an asian character and really just

"yea he's asian, idk what nationality but its there."

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Im not into someone who isn't a minority writing about a minority experience as a personal preference, but the sensitivity readers aren't exclusive to that. There was an example in story help in this server where someone asked about writing for a certain group of ppl and wanted feedback

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I...remember that krispy

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah

carcarchu

i get what you're saying Tuyetnhi but i don't want authors to NOT include any representation just because they're scared of doing it wrong

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Several people warned him Including me

DanitheCarutor

A good example of sensitivity readers is Moana. The directors were old white guys, but they got Hawaiians to look over the script to make sure it wasn't disrespectful to the culture, or totally out of left field, since the tribe in the movie is based on Hawaiian tribes. Even though I didn't have sensitivity readers I still sought out people who experienced certain mental illnesses, medical professionals and mental health professionals willing the share their experiences and knowledge on the subjects I'm tackling before starting the comic.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye and I get that, I mean like if they trying to do extreme nuance takes

leave that for folks who experienced that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Asscreed games used to do the same too

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I ain't againist that kind of rep, but I have a paricular idea how to go about it that's all lol

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Tho i don't know if they were successful

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

What's wrong with someone writing a character who is transgender if they're not transgender? There's a lot of good research done on transgender issues both medical and societal as well as a lot of written record. I also don't see the issue with writing an ethnic minority as a non-minority. "Far Beyond the Stars" was written by white men and it speaks about racial issues brilliantly. Consultants on the intricacies of culture, I 100% understand, though, for your narratives; that does make sense. Professors are hired by filmmakers and writers for just that IIRC.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Sensitivity readers would not be a thing if people were not allowed to write characters outside of their own identity. Nobody's advocating that

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ya

carcarchu

white people can write on poc's issues fine. but i have a problem when they act like they know more than the people who have experienced it first-hand

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

Yep that's what I mean cara

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

As long as you’re respectful about it

And open to changing ideas

RebelVampire

Ok Im gonna step in here now and say we need to take a step back perhaps cause I feel this convo might be becoming too heated.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Heated?

I think you're misreading. I don't believe anybody here is heated over anything. I didn't know there was an argument, honestly. Is there? Am I losing my mind here?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Also these are instances that have been brought to light bc ppl want better rep from authours too. My last point on that!!

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I don't think anyone's angry, but this is an extremely sensitive/ heavy topic so we're all treading carefully!

carcarchu

i'm with page i thought it was all very civil

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Remarkably so, frankly.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

agreed

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Usually these things spawn a lot of arguments. It's refreshing to see people, well, not do that.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye lol

RebelVampire

It is but this is the sort of topic where it can quickly hit the boiling point in a single message. And I've been seeing some warning signs in this convo. By all means if everyone can keep it civil, please continue. Consider this more a warning that right now, if you're getting angry, please step away from the convo cause I don't want to have to mute or ban anyway.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

aight

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Warning signs? I really am losing my mind.

DanitheCarutor

Let me know if I've said or will say something that might be insensitive. I try to be respectful, but I'm overly comfortable with uncomfortable topics and can be like a bull in a china shop sometimes.(edited)

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Its just a sensitive topic, page

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

same with me, but i'm also speaking from experience as sensitivity reader too.

so yea lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh yeah, on most servers, when this comes up, you have those who take the opportunity to say white people should die, then the ones who say the same about people of colour. It all devolves.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

what the

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh, b'ys, Discord is a wild place.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I agree with Keii, these are sensitive topics, I'm reading each one carefully without jumping into a fight

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I mean yeah, I been on discord since 2015 lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Gosh, I've been on it for years too! Seems so long ago I first came here!

Time flies, eh?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

still like, I find it kinda ridiculous someone is willing to jump like that

but yeah er, the topic at hand lol

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It doesn't need to go to that ridiculous extent to offend people, so I agree with Rebel on that we need to continue to be careful

Eilidh (Lady Changeling)

(going to step out now but good convo y'all)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Offer people a bit of the word "race" and soon it turns into Nuremberg.

Good talking to you, mate!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Goodnight Eilidh!

Also I’m actually new on discord

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I think that its a good practice that writers today are more sensitive to the readers. Not in a hand holding way, but in a responsible way where their work is properly tagged and rated and the consistency of such content is a warning as well (like danis comic) It's important to want to improve the reading experience for many and keeping in mind that some topics need to be handled with some more care

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye agreed!

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

In my field, I think it's a contest on how much emotion you can get out in one breath with gleeful abandon to how the reader feels.

carcarchu

but a problem with that is sometimes it feels like writers are held up to impossibly high standards and that they can't have ANY inkling whatsoever of any content that might possibly be construed as "problematique" by the purity police. the degree to which some authors are scrutinized is unreasonable and i think it often stems from having to be seen as a "pure" representation of whatever it is they are representing

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Sometimes it's not even that the standards are "too high"

DanitheCarutor

@FeatherNotes(Krispy) Lol if the word limit allows it, every self-promo of my comic is plastered with age and content warnings, dang it!

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

There will ALWAYS be those standards, they were always there. Ppl just didn't have that voice. I would not be worried about writing however, as i def see a problem with the purity thingie going around.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think carcarchu is talking about something very specific, Feather?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

there will be some rep be messy and rip that's part of being human and making mistakes

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

There was an article talking about the direction of art and the consumers of such that covered this topic about the purity thing that i wanna findd

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like everyone can't be a saint

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

like when an ownvoices writer gets pitchforks and torches because their portrayal wasn't wholesome enough, and you are only allowed to write happy and wholesome stories about that group(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

like

keii omg

yeah i'll die in the torches that's ok

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Wait what

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah it's a thing

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Thats a thing

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

What...????

carcarchu

yes that's what i'm talking about keii

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

What

carcarchu

i also have a video about it

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

They're more upset at the story direction then

Not a purity thing

carcarchu

no it's a purity thing

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I agree with Carcarchu on this one. I feel like some people would be up in arms if I wrote a story where a white guy is the protagonist and a black guy is the antagonist. Some people just see race.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I know several LGBTQ peeps who are afraid to post their dark LGBTQ fiction because it might draw the attention of "only wholesome content allowed!!!" people

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

WhgtttattTTT

nooo

DanitheCarutor

Oooh yeah, the puritans/sanitizers out there, they're a scary bunch. I've had a run in with a few people who've said my comic shouldn't be allowed to exist due to the content... and I've been called queerphobic... and that my comic is queerphobic torture porn... and other fun stuff. It happens.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

WHHHHHHAAAAAAAT

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You'd be surprised how common this is.

RebelVampire

Yeah I have to say I've seen it a lot too

carcarchu

where have u been krispy that you haven't seen this?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I have been in my silent cave apparently

I also haven't been in fandoms for years if that helps lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You living like Patrick the Starfish?

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, we're kind of starting to get back into the olden days of demand for sanitizing art, people who work on darker content or horror get a lot of crap.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

This is patrick

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

All kidding aside, TL;DR: shit's kind of fucked in some ways.

carcarchu

i've even had run-ins with such people irl... hasnt been the most pleasant. i was once friends (note once) who tried to convince me that i should turn my het romance story into a lesbian one? for no reason other than she preferred to read that kind of content?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Ohhbsee thats where im confused

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Imagine if the sexuality were flipped. It would be outrageous.(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

rip I had a comment a year ago that the main love interest is "too gay to be straight"

and i'm like "excuse u?"

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

"Yeah, make it straight. I don't like gay stuff."

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

How is the relationship dynamic purity in that case?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's not purity police talk anymore, I think

carcarchu

not purity in that specific example feather but it's the same kind of person

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I’ve also had people come up to me and ask why I don’t write a more lighthearted story

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It's... a different issue

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

OB

MY GOSHHH

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Or “shadow, your shit is too dark why are you writing about this”

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

So ppl be telling u how to write ur chars now?

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

"Life can only be happy and stuff :(( art can literally only be happyyy"

carcarchu

yeah this same person was also PISSED that there was a gem in steven universe who was "black-coded" and portrayed as a villain even though there were black coded gems who were not portrayed as villains as well

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Sorry Krispy Life be like that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Wthhhh

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Black coded?....what series have they been watching carcarchu lol

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ah dang

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

These ppl have 2 much time on their hands RIP They wanna rip apart media, go after something that deserves it (likethebig2incomicscough)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

They’re gate keeping(edited)

DanitheCarutor

Ah not too long ago I stumbled across an artist who drew more problematic stuff as a way to cope with trauma, which I guess was something their therapist suggested. Their stuff is pretty messed up, but someone started one of those "call out" videos on them, leading to thousands of people flooding their work with some of the most awful comments along with people trying to shut down their Patreon and social media accounts.

carcarchu

i later found out this person was also a terf so i ended the friendship right there when i found out

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Dani that’s...what the fuck

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Oh nasty

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

searches up terf Oh...

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I remember reading one person talking about how presenting "bad ideals" and whatnot in fiction had to be demonstrated to be bad ideals and not work and stuff and so on so forth.

carcarchu

i've seen that too dani

sadly more times than i can count

we all remember what happened to cucumber quest right?

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

It is terrible out there

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

What’s cucumber quest

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

What is cucumber

Quest oop

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

"What is cucumber?": An essay in being Socrates.

carcarchu

long story short cucumber quest was a children's webcomic that was pretty popular but the author got bullied off tumblr for being "problematic"

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh no

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Tumblr has a lot of crazies.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I like her work

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Oh noooooooooo

I still go on tumblr but I carefully choose my blogs

Because I don’t want this shit

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

(All this being said, I wanna reiterate that just because those terrible pitchforks and torches people exist, doesn't mean all "I find this offensive" voices are invalid. Some things could genuinely be improved!)

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Also def wanna say that even tho there will be these wolves waiting to tear 'non perfect' media apart, please dont feel like u have to stop writing, ever. Dont be afraid bc of these stories, yall have good heads on ur shoulders and obvs want to share ur experiences and that is something ur allowed to do

carcarchu

fyi she didnt stop making her comic because of the bullying thing, it was a separate, unrelated issue much later(edited)

i hear you keii

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I find it hilarious of the idea That there are people out there who tell someone not to write stuff like abuse even tho they’ve never experienced it

And the writers themselves have

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Oh, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

There was someone who tried to boycott assassins creed 2 bc the main char reminder her of her ex bf

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

omfg

DanitheCarutor

It's really sad and a little terrifying if your work doesn't fit the sanitization standards... Sometimes I think of that "what if" chance just the right person finding my comic and launching a take down campaign on it. Which is why I'm totally fine with staying as a smalltime person in the shadows. Also people don't usually want to even read through my comic, so that's a plus.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

why lmaoo

oh dang dani that's one fear

but i'm also like "I wonder how folks react to me dealing with that like I ignore them"

would that be a power move or I'd be burning harder?

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Shit I never thought of a takedown campaign

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

It's a genuine fear for the creating community for sure, but ur voice is necessary. Ur story will resonate with ppl, and those who choose to use their time to tear it down obviously have nothing else better to do

DanitheCarutor

@keii’ii (Heart of Keol) Oh yeah, totally! People's feelings are super valid, and someone writing sensitive content should be open to listening to other people. I'm just talking about the extremists who think anything remotely uncomfortable shouldn't exist. Like, no.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Man, nowadays, people just throw shit and false accusations and all the rest at people because they don't like them and their stuff. They're truly pathetic.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I used to be so scared of a certain chapter in my comic bc its so violent at one point. It kept me up at night bc of these take down campaigns were a such a thing. But then i remember the content i enjoyed that inspired my own and im like Aint no one cancelling FMA for the niina part!

I mean unless its a topic that's super insensitive to a group or people/topic, which i know you're handling with sensitivity and grace, i wouldn't stop

carcarchu

this is a little bit sensitive so i'm going to put it in a spoiler there was another incident where an author received constant messages to kill themselves for writing gls when they did not at that time identify as a woman but then the author later did a whole comic about how how complicated her relationship with her own gender and sexuality was and that she de-transitioned and now once again considered herself to be both cis and lesbian and all those comments about her needing to kill herself for writing gl were so narrow-minded because you can never really know an author's situation if you aren't in their shoes

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

What's "gl"?

DanitheCarutor

Lol yeah, I do get worried a lot, especially about the upcoming chapters. Although that's not going to stop me from pushing forward, and telling the story how I want to tell it. If my online presence is murdered in the process, at least it will die for a good cause... at least good for me because I'll be venting everything out.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Whhhh!!! People just gettin into ppls business damn. That's horrible

carcarchu

girl's love

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

GIrl's love?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I def see ur story as a personal one with healing and building that will resonate with others Dani. And i think that's very important

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

What's that?

carcarchu

stories about girls loving girls

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

it's a genre that focuses on romantic relationships between girls ye

carcarchu

i really got chills reading that author's comic about her identity especially having seen those comments numerous times on her other comics

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

There was a similar incident except it was with an artist by the name of Zamii for supposedly drawing Steven Universe characters too thin (Yes, she did attempt suicide in the end, though she didn't succeed in her attempt).

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Is...is she okay now?

oh my god Page

I remembered that

The SU writers had to step in

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh rip sadly I remember that as well

carcarchu

i think she's doing ok! i'm not sure if that particular comic is still up but i can dm u it if u want shadow

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Yep! Not just the writers, even an executive producer.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Yes please carcarchu

And I think Rebecca sugar stepped in too? Not sure about that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Hopefully this serves as a reminder for all of us to have each others backs in such situations wow

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Another incident was in the Undertale fandom I think. One person gave a cookie to an artist at a convention they didn't like because of the ships they were doing. They author was suspicious, so, they cracked open the cookie. It was filled with needles.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

WHHHHHHYYYYYYY

carcarchu

oh my god i remember that page, what a horror story

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

........what the FUCK

carcarchu

always be careful about accepting food from events like that

DanitheCarutor

Geez, the thing about the GL author is sad... yet not surprising, and it's sad that I'm not surprised. @FeatherNotes(Krispy) Thank you so much! I went into my comic expecting absolutely no one would like it, so if it resonates with even one person that would be the best surprise. TvT

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yee haw I love solidarity

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, never accept food/drinks from strangers, including "fans"

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

As someone who bakes and deals with food....that is horrifying

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

yeah rip that's horrifying

carcarchu

if it's packaged food like candy it should be safe, but still be careful if u have reason to be suspicious at all

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Remember, if you're suspicious, make them eat it too >:)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

omgllol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

And lace it with cyanide.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Gosh authours need content warning from readers it seems yikes

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Better safe than sorry.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Still not safe to have them eat it too lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I mean, hey, better second degree murder than dead.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I can think of some.... ways around that

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

"I'm alergic to needles"

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Give it to their friend

>:)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Give it to their spouse.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

And if it’s poison they’ll go down knowing they did it

Make a marvel villain

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

They're called "Widower".

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Page you and I have like minds

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Indeed we do.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm not comfortable with that -- like, what if their friend or spouse is being abused by them and is seeking to get out of that relationship

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

...This conversation is freaking amazing And I’ve never done individual page warnings for my comic - never felt it necessary. Maybe someday someone will yell at me about it, but... meh. The comic never goes into the really deep dark potentially-controversial stuff. So maybe it won’t be an issue. Back to catching up on all of this, WOW.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh god it would be a complicated meSS(edited)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Oh god okay NO DONT GIVE IT TO THEIR SPOUSE

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

It doesn't matter. They must die for our agenda.

Morality? Pft.

If they're dead, they're no longer in the relationship.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I mean @LadyLazuli (Phantomarine) your story is really riveting But I’m not sure if you need warnings? I mean your story deals with...death

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

You see? Widower solves everything.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

@shadowhood (SunnyxRain) I’m not sure! Someone tagged it with ‘limb loss’ elsewhere, which is debatable, haha. It’s something I would almost want others to tag. Sometimes I can’t stretch my mind far enough to imagine a page needing a trigger warning.(edited)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Wow...the more you learn, huh.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Yes- those specific type tags are always going to be elusive to keep track of- ur general rating is just what ur story needs

Def wanna point out too that TV ratings and warnings are what i go by and the most helpful to me as a reader and creator. Also video game warnings too are good to look at if people ever need examples of how to rate comics!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Yep, ratings are all I need too. In my ‘about’ page I described my comic as “no darker than the darkest stuff in Harry Potter,” but I’m sure someone would still find something extremely dark in that, so... SHRUG

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Does anyone know of any of the big name comics that put trigger warnings or whatnot in their work? I dont read marvel/dc/etc so ive never seen if they took to rating their comics with any type of warnings?

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I do have kids reading so I want the parents to feel comfortable

DanitheCarutor

Is it weird that I rated my comic based on the level of nudity and lack of sex? Like, "Okay, these people are really naked but not in a sexy way, what is the rating for that?"

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I'm thinking about snot girl rn and idk if their creators do that tbh other than marketed towards adults

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I read a couple of more-intense things from Image Comics and I’ve never seen any trigger warnings there either

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmm I’m not sure I remember reading Hellboy and not seeing any trigger warnings

carcarchu

krispy, the only time i can recall it is when i read Bradherley's Coach and that was actually put there by the translation team and not the author himself but i will say that the warning was extremely warranted with that one because i consider myself pretty desensitized to traumatic content but even this one really got me with each chapter being traumatic in it's own unique way

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Do they have ratings on the backs of the books like some manga?

Oh wow ty translation team

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Probably! I’m not sure if DarkHorse comics does it but they do have things like nudity and...portrayals of graphic death

carcarchu

if u read it on a website there is some degree of tagging for the content but i don't think that alone could have accurately prepared someone for what the comic explored

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I think its clear that by these examples we're all already doing better at being responsible for the content we share and produce.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

I hope so I wonder if those big name comics received flak about not having trigger warnings

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I wonder about that too tbh

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Im sure to a degree? But no where near an indie creator would

Which is a whole other topic

carcarchu

i for one would love more tagging options for webcomics

makes it easier to find whatever niche content you're into!

genres alone just dont do it

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

That could work But there’s also a price to pay; less chance to get readers too

carcarchu

why is it less of a chance to get readers?

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I myself am looking at my Punisher comics, and there's no warnings anywhere, but i feel with an antihero like the Punisher, you go in expecting the gore and violence

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

Hmmmmm....I guess my fear is that it’s a double edged sword carcarchu On one hand you can attract the readers you want But on the other hand you can also...possibly drive away readers who are mildly curious Some people need time to get invested in a story

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I guess some people will just avoid some tags no-questions-asked. Hopefully it’s the small minority that the trigger warning will actually help (in terms of anxiety) and not someone who’s writing off the trigger as problematic and will go on a tirade warning other readers about it. I know it goes both ways

carcarchu

oh i wasn't talking about trigger content tagging specifically

i was talking about stuff like being able to tag for example "witches" or "animals" or "music" whatever is a theme in your comic(edited)

guess it wasnt a logical throughline made sense in my head

eli [a winged tale]

I was looking for a universal way to show trigger warnings and came across this article. https://medium.com/@UntoNuggan/trigger-warnings-101-a-beginners-guide-e9fc90c6ba0a I guess for mine I’m thinking to add body horror and violence the more we go through the story... I do like the part about putting the informed consent power back to the reader’s hands

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I put both Fantasy Violence and Alcohol Use as general warnings for my comic. Alcohol is treated in a complex manner in CoR, both in a humorous light and as a way to cope, but I know there are a lot of folks that are triggered by the presence of alcohol.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I will be putting trigger warning in my comic but Ive wanted to write about mental health allegories for a long time as a personal self reflection.

I started to feel braver after seeing other creators boldly write about mental health topics in their comics.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Whispers the webcomic library is an excellent source and tool to find/avoid tags in comics

Luma does an excellent job with archiving the stories there and i hope yall have applied to have ur comics there too!

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Yes I watch Webcomic library on Twitter, Luma does such a good job curating comics(edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Same! Highly recommended

carcarchu

i think i follow it on twitter but i don't keep up with it

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

They did these tags for my comic(edited)

carcarchu

maybe i should change that

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Super dedicated and a very great resource for webcomics!!

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I got these! I originally only put down 'limb loss - leg' but 'limb loss - arm' popped up too, and I'm like "You know... that's kinda true." It's a really good resource!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

OOoh I should check it out

Webcomic library, right?

carcarchu

what's the difference between independent! and independent

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

...that's a good question and I don't know the answer, haha

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

“Eventual LGBTQ” yes

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I AGREE!! I'm on Webcomic Library too. Mine is tagged as Mobility Aids since Nocturne uses a cane to walk

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

hmmm how do you add your webcomic onto there?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I went thru the process like

you send an email to luma/webcomic libary with a submission form

and she'll add it for u with the tags that are relelated to your comic

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Luma always puts up submission posts too Check out their tumblr/twitter!

DanitheCarutor

I can't imagine how much time it takes Luma to go through all those webcomics! These are the tags they put for mine:(edited)

They've kept it up pretty well in spite of it not being their cup of tea. The only thing I was ever iffy on was the 'sexual nudity' tag since I didn't intend for that but for the nudity to be uncomfortable/awkward, and I don't like the idea of people going into my comic for sexual arousal, but on well. To each their own, also it may be a presentation mistake on my part.

It's funny because I didn't think about one of my MCs being disabled until seeing this, I had to think for a moment before realizing "Oh yeah, I guess ocular albinism is considered a disability."

Kind of an embarrassing realization on my part.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ooo that's a lot of tags

this from my comic

DanitheCarutor

@shadowhood (SunnyxRain) Here is the submission template if you're interested. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1q48tZquhmNoGY_lcsE8FkByF614EISk_Pf3YoQKXYWA/edit?usp=sharing

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

probably not much is tagged since lmao it's 2 chapters in

DanitheCarutor

Haaaah yeah, my comic has a lot of... stuff. It'll probably get even bigger once the next two chapters are finished, if Luma is willing to go through them.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

ahhh thank you Time to submit

honestly I don't think there'll be a lot for my webcomic, since I just started lol

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

All a good resource regardless! And a good place to find comics to read!

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

fair enough! Also...uhh....

what's nsfw text?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

oh

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

like, not safe for work things being talked about in the text of the comic typically sex stuff i imagine

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

or swearing lmao

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

oh god

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

get ready for a rideeeee

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

since someone saying "violence and gore" in the text wouldn't really count as NSFW lol

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

on my sailor ship lolol

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, NSFW text is swearing, slurs, discussion of NSFW subjects, sexual language I'm guessing. In my case it's the former three, at least I assume as much.

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

..........ohhhh boy

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

mine is just my characters speaking without filter

lol

at least for the begining lolol

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

but yeah to me the limit for "what to warn people about" is generally dependent on the platform

those are my tags on archive binge

those are my tags on webcomic library (admittedly a bit out of date)

shadowhood (SunnyxRain)

lord almighty(edited)

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

on comic fury the only tag I have is high violence (with no nudity, sexual content, or swearing)

on tapas it's a page-by-page thing so I basically add the tag whenever there's blood on-screen

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Nsfw is not swearing like bitch, shit fuck Its more slurs i do believe

Also forgive me for swearing on main lol

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

lol

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

OH DANI SAID IT ALREADY

So yes, what dani said

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Yeah I was wondering how deep into curse/slur territory it’d have to go

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Gjs has swearing in it but its sailor mouth stuff, not slurs

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I’ve got fantasy slurs and I drop those RARELY because they still make me feel weird, haha

Dunno if I could ever commit to IRL ones in anything I do

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, I imagine if swears did count it would be how they're used, like if they were said in a derogatory statement and/or bullying.

But yeah, slurs, definitely. Haaaah

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I don't think I could ever write about racial slurs either. The only touchy topics I will ever write are those I have experienced. Never experienced true racism so if I wrote about it I would feel like I'm faking knowledge of a huge and personal issue for other people

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Same. I leave that to people who can write about it better. Any discrimination I have in my stories is manufactured by the fantasy world and its own unique circumstances. I have some influence from real-world discrimination, but it's its own thing.

DanitheCarutor

Ah but slurs aren't just race, there are also slurs for gender and sexuality. (The -cough- 'T' and 'F' word.)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

yeah... racial slurs make me uncomfortable, but depends with the fantasy slurs, that could be creative if it's done to show the social issues of that world?(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I feel like even if you're only using fantasy slurs (speaking as someone whose comic has a use of a fantasy slur...), you need good understanding of what it's like to be on the receiving end of a slur IRL. This isn't to say "you need [this qualification] to be Allowed to use slurs in your fictional work!" but more like, how to make it resonate with the readers in the right ways, how to make it not gratuitous, etc.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ye

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I'm still learning myself. Like, I do have some experience dealing with racism toward me, but 1) it's nothing compared to the truly horrific stuff out there, and 2) even on comparable "levels" my experience could be very, very different from someone else's. All we can do is keep trying, keep learning.

Keep listening.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

I'd had a fair deal of racism and microagression being a native in the US for so long

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

exactly, like I experienced childhood racism about my cultural upbringing. But it's different for other people.(edited)

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

it's something that lmao won't go away but ye we have some different perspectives on how we can go about handling it

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

When I read a work or watch a film, I can tell if the creator has researched well, if it's racism similar to my experiences. It doesn't matter their background. But it'd be a nicer bonus if this came from a POC creator.(edited)

DanitheCarutor

Yeah, based on that I'm probably not the best person to have characters using slurs. While the slur present is gender based, I have a complicated relationship with... everything that isn't white/cis/het. I'm a mixed race (mom's side(very white passing): German Jewish, black Irish, Scottish, Native American. Dad's side: Native American, Spanish, Mexican.), my mom was raised in a church in a tiny town that was totally against non-white people and race mixing, according to her when I was born people would come to the hospital to gawk at me. I've never been called a slur maliciously, but casually and I never noticed it until I was older after everyone naturally stopped. Every experience and memory I have of slurs has been of the "yikes!", "Woah, you really said that." variety, so I kind of project that energy a little bit in my comic. But in the form of a very yikes casually transphobic character.

For clarity on the cis/het thing, my family was also extremely bigoted but would hide it under casual language, so it never sounded queerphobic until you process what they said.

Not related to me, but I understand needing to experience racism to write it, although I think it can still be accomplished well if the person is empathetic and does a ton of research. Kinda like anything else sensitive, you just need to be really educated on the subject.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I agree with you Dani. Sadly some creators just don't have that empathy and want to write a fantasy token character. I had awkward story conversations before on race. "what do you think about this ambiguous Asian character? I'm thinking of a Japanese name, sounds Asian enough?" I always cringe inside(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

I usually bring in other people to write about those things I haven't experienced. Friends, generous volunteers, etc.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I think it's 100% OK to write about things you haven't experienced. I don't think J.K. Rowling experienced being an adolescent male chosen one in a magical college, but she still wrote about it...and made a Hell of a lot of money.

DanitheCarutor

Lol that's why I added in doing research, which I think brainstorming with experienced people counts, you're still educating yourself. I agree with everyone on experience being preferred, although I am on the anti-censorship side with art and storytelling, no matter how cringe it is.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

ofc i think it's okay, but I personally don't feel comfortable doing it

i even feel a little weird writing male characters

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

If we can only write ourselves and our experiences, we're plain not good writers.

That's my view on the matter.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Again, I don't think any of us is advocating Necessary Qualifications To Even Attempt. This is a much more nuanced topic

I've never been a tall beefy dude, but that's what my MC is.

Never been a parent, but I write parents.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Yeah, "make the effort to write this well" is very different from "don't write this"

And there's plenty of people criticizing JKR for how she handles specific topics...

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

yeeeeah....

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Including me.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

JKR is probably not a good example to bring up as a positive example for this topic, simply because of the issues that can REALLY distract from why she's being used as an example.

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

I like writing male character more often since I'm less stressed about writing the opposite gender, I know it's my comfort zone. I based some of the boys on my guy friends and have fun with the story. Though I'm making a difference by insisting on adding women more and pushing for strength and vulnerability.(edited)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

J.K. turned out to be lacking a few brain-cells, but my point is that you can very easily write foreign experiences; every good writer does that all the time (as you all do yourselves!) and I think that extends to writing characters no matter the colour of their skin, sexuality, or gender identity.

DanitheCarutor

True, I haven't seen gatekeeping here, I'm just giving my thoughts on it. A while back on another server I read a conversation where some people were dissing the person who made Magical Boy on Tapas because they're not trans, even though they did a lot of research beforehand. I was kind of reflecting that, but I also empathize with people who feel uncomfortable with people who've never experienced a certain form of oppression writing about it.

Pff I've never been a janitor, but dang it! You can't stop me from having a janitor character!

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Janitors are the coolest guys, I'm telling ye.

Most chill people in the land.

B'ys, they can get along with anyone, I swear.

DanitheCarutor

They're like real life superheroes.

Deo101 [Millennium]

We're not saying not to write other skin tones, gender, etc. Just to be sensitive about it and aware that you can't extrapolate someone else's life experiences from your own, you have to ask

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

there's a difference between writing a janitor and writing a touchy topic like racism. Anyways, even if I was writing a janitor I'd do a ton of research on the job

Deo101 [Millennium]

Sorry I use a cane and I can tell when people didn't ask someone who uses a cane what it's like. It goes the same for a lot of things

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I'm not saying you are saying that! Simply addressing something I've encountered before.

I've used a cane before, though temporarily. It was...a pain in the ass, honestly.

Well, more like a pain in my leg. And my arm.

DanitheCarutor

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) Sorry, I was joking since Keii was talking about writing muscular guys and parents. It would be sad if I didn't know the difference between racism and an occupation. Lol

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

In any case, I don't think that writing somebody of an ethnic minority necessitates much on its own. Delving into racial issues, sure, yeah that requires a lot, but I wouldn't say that of writing the character itself.

I'd say the same of sexuality and gender identity if you're not delving into the respective issues thereof. If you know what you're doing, i don't think there's too much to it.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

@Page, Rambler Extraordinaire! Yeah, I think that's what a lot of us are saying. There is a difference between writing a character who's [this identity] vs writing a story that's all about exploring that identity.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

The latter requires a lot more research, agreed.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

oh i know @DanitheCarutor , you write a lot of lgbt characters after all. just adding my thoughts, not diagreeing

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

"If you know what you're doing" is the tricky part though

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Well, that's not that difficult in most cases. There is a sea of available literature.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

There's.... the problem of marginalized folks pointing out concerns in a work, and non-marginalized people dismissing their concerns because they don't see the issue.

Deo101 [Millennium]

It's also really easy to ask a person for their real life experience

People are usually, in my experience, more than willing to take some time and answer a few questions.

DanitheCarutor

On the Magical Boy thing, like I said, it wasn't you all, it was people on a different server and I wanted to bring it up since it's related to the topic. To do a more serious comparison, I've never had psychosis or schizophrenia but I'm writing a character like that. I did a lot of research beforehand though, like, A LOT.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Like for disabilities it's very easily to find all kinds of Medical information, but almost no first hand experience is available. So what happens is people are very accurate medically, but then extrapolate what living like that is like and still end up with a disengenuous story

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Surely, there's available literature on the subject? I'm sure that I could find some.

Deo101 [Millennium]

And Dani, same with me and schizophrenia. It's for a future comic, but I've been researching it and interviewing people for years now to be sure I get a story that would at the very least not hurt them

I mean I would think a better resource would be YouTubers with those things, actually.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

For a lot of topics, it's easier to find a firsthand experiencer willing to talk to you than to find some existing literature on the exact thing you didn't know you needed

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah like My condition is very rare and the best you could find on it for firsthand experience is like. A forum that's super old and inactive

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I still remember one review where the person said "I have a certain disability, and I'm sure this author doesn't have it -- but they know someone who does -- because they're describing the visible symptoms with uncanny accuracy, but are guessing all wrong about how it feels/how it affects your life in invisible ways."

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

That's a huge pitfall, I feel. There can be a big sensitive thing that you aren't even aware is a thing; therefore, you don't think to do any research on that facet.

Deo101 [Millennium]

It's really easy to make a post on social media like "hey can I interview people with ___ for a writing project?"

DanitheCarutor

Openness depends on the topic. It's really hard getting people's experiences with certain mental illnesses, also the small number of people suffering from it. I had a really hard time finding people willing to talk about certain things, especially professionals since they usually don't want to talk to you without paying money for it.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

^ That's also a good point.

Deo101 [Millennium]

That's true

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I think we're going back to the purity thing. You can't expect someone to truly represent the "invisible ways" it affects you very well considering they're...invisible.

Deo101 [Millennium]

You can ask

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

But I would definitely recommend trying to reach out to people with firsthand experience, and seeing if that's an option.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

I've been able to shoot emails off to professors before for questions. They're usually happy to answer a question or two.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

This is not at all like the purity thing IMO.

DanitheCarutor

A decent resource I found was a mental health forum, you have to get accepted to join, but it's basically everyone talking about their experiences with being mentally ill or being a volunteer for mental health care centers. Unfortunately there aren't any psychologists on the forum... Just nurses and caregivers on the non-ill side.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

Again, there's a spectrum here...there's all kinds of possibilities between "how dare your extensive research have a single imperfection" and "wow, you didn't even try".

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, and it's not even a single lane spectrum! It's very complex and multifaceted/multilayered

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

And we're talking about this for marginalized people, but it can apply to any group/culture/situation you're not part of -- just look at any story where a European writer has an American character drive across the US in a couple hours

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

Lmaoooo

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Or americans write Germans getting lost in their woods.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Alright, multilayered? How so? It's a spectrum from "B'y, you're writing about a black man in the 1700s being exalted in America" to "Why am I reading this ethnic studies textbook?"

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

Naw mate, pick a direction and you‘ll find a street or at least marked trail in half an hour.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Okay, I can't answer that without draining my energy reserve for the next 20 weeks

DanitheCarutor

Lmao! As dumb as it sounds, something like that can also apply to animals. Like the thing Disney did with lemmings, and how Jaws portrayed sharks which caused this spike in shark hunting because everyone thought they were these monsters.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

Would it be possible to summarize?

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

We've talked about a bunch of different aspects already -- like, how well did you research the medical symptoms vs. how well did you represent the day-to-day experience

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

No (at least for me), precisely because it's so complex and multilayered.

RebelVampire

This is a good convo and I am happy everyone has remained civil. That being said, I kind of feel it's gone a bit off-topic for an extended time regarding this week's question

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

it's hard to know what's worth a mature tag or not when even the websites themselves are vague. I started off with a character having the trait of cursing a lot, but then dropped that as i became paranoid of wts content guidelines

but i've gotten a decent audience since then and wts hasn't deleted my pages or anything so(edited)

i have no idea what the line is

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Webtoons is extra mysterious

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I host my own stuff, so I just put warnings up when a specific storyline is going to be more intense than the comic's average

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

because their comment system will auto censor words like "vague" (it becomes "***ue" or something like that) so you'd think they really don't want ANY cursing?

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

yes! that has happened to me

Deo101 [Millennium]

Su***ious

Is one I see a lot

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

someone commented "sperm" on my pages once so i know wt doesn't censor that at least

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

...is that why the kids these days are just saying "sus" now

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

******in's Creed

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i don't understand what is the swear in suspicious?

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

lmao

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

It's a racial slur in some regions

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

ohhhh

i know what you mean

yeah rip

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

An auto-censor like that just makes a normal discussion forum seem 100x more scandalous/insulting than it actually is...

Deo101 [Millennium]

I got used to talking around then from mmo games ahahaha

Those chats that squelch you if you say one curse or something close to it by accident

But! On topic, I think asking whether something is too mature is a good idea, having a kind of beta audience or sensitivity reader kind of thing.

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I think it's fine to make your own judgment calls as long as you're consistent, so readers know the same things will be reliably warned for

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

a beta reader wouldn't neccessarily know more about wt than me though

when it comes to blurry content guidelines that is

might help with mature or triggering content

because your tolerance might be different from other people's

Deo101 [Millennium]

Oh I mean like "hmmm I think this is a bit much. Do you think this is a bit much?"

And they go "na this seems like pg 13 to me." Or "hmmm I think it could probably freak someone out you might wanna lightly warn."

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

it's a blurry line because sometimes an arm getting ripped off stylishly is less triggering than a realistic depiction of like, a fingernail being ripped off

just gotta go by feeling, i suppose

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yep

Erin Ptah (BICP | Leif & Thorn)

I agree that this is a case where there's no reason to think a beta reader has better judgment than you have yourself

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

yeah my friends are all like me

DanitheCarutor

WTs is weird. I used to have my comic up there totally uncensored, they featured it on the front page for about a month, but when someone flagged the nudity they wouldn't put the pages back up. Like... you think they would have known already? The nude scene is within the first 20 pages.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

and don't think much of gore and swearing and such

fuck dani don't say that you're making me paranoid again

RebelVampire

Classic it only takes one person to ruin something for everyone else

DanitheCarutor

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) From what I've seen of your nude scenes, I don't think anyone will really notice. I didn't even notice until you brought it up one time on here... or maybe it was in the Webcomic Updates server.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i hope so but as rebel said only takes one staff member

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Can i just chime in to say that the auto censoring with what y'all have said about WT really turns me off from that platform. Not into a site having that power, regardless of who uses it. It's like we said here, be responsible with your work with tags, but that extra hand in the pot makes me think of tumblr style censors and im not a fan.

Does tapas do that too?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Webtoon doesn't really have tags, it just has a toggle for a series being mature

They both do

So they don't get removed from app stores

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Ye i guessed as much

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Tapas has this feature that lets creators tag individual episodes as mature. BUT there is an additional layer -- if your comic is too mature even with the mature tag, they're forced to hide it from their iOS app, due to Fruit Company regulations.

DanitheCarutor

WT is trash, and the reader base is made up of children, don't go there! Tapas is pretty alright, they're fine with my comic being uncensored there, and they don't censor comments.

Yeah, there's what Keii said about the Apple app too.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

And it's up to Fruit Company to determine whether it's too mature or not. (Mine is too mature because of body hair, and I was told they'd put it back on the app if I erased the body hair in a specific episode)

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Still not a fan of that kind of censorship. And i agree with dani

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

ohh yeah i remember that body hair thing kei

DanitheCarutor

Oh crap, were we not supposed to name drop the app?

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Excuse me body hair

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Webtoons on the other hand will straight up remove any too mature episodes across all of their platform...s (site, iOS, android) if Google says "this is too mature"

Deo101 [Millennium]

I don't think it's censorship, it's more not allowing certain things on your platform

They're not saying you can't make it just that you can't post it there

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

It is censorship U cant post ur piece in its intended form

Like....body hair Wtf

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I think that depends on how you define censorship

In any case, it's definitely not ideal.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

That is so .... Like Way to show what standards they want

DanitheCarutor

Gah the body hair thing. Thinking about it, I never got contacted by Tapas about my comic's mature content, but they probably knew trying to censor it would be a lost cause. Lol They probably just threw straight off the app.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

That's horrible Dani

DanitheCarutor

Naah, I don't mind. It's still allowed on the desktop site, and that's the only version I use so it's like nothing ever happened.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Still a gross move on their part. Not enthused with the passion to appease app stores with removing content that isn't 'suitable', but that is a diff convo.

DanitheCarutor

As one last derailing bit, if you're ever looking for a hosting site, Comicfury is the best for mature and adult work. They don't censor ANYTHING! Except hate-speech.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

Oh i keep seeing more and more talk about that! Can i ask u more about it in shop talk?

DanitheCarutor

Sure, go ahead! I'll answer to the best of my abilities.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Wow

Just caught up

Back to the warnings thing...(edited)

In my experience, there are certain reasonable leaps in seriousness in comics, and other times when it appears jarring and out of nowhere, but in that case, I think it's simply bad writing, unless of course, it's a genre like horror.

But I think an author deciding to put content warnings should be up to the author on a case by case basis.

There are simply too many variables to come up with specific ground rules

As an example, I have a scene later on in my comic where a child dies. I don't show how it happens, but I was planning on showing the body afterwards. Nothing too gruesome, but definitely some broken bones. And I have been told completely opposite things, that it should be okay because I'm not showing the actual death, and on the other side, that showing the body at all is terrible, and I shouldn't do it. My concern is... If I don't show the body, how will the readers know that the child is dead? And how will I show the reactions of the other characters? It's just too complicated and specific of an issue to rely on general guidelines.

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

B'ys, the real answer is to stop writing webcomics altogether! I'm telling ye! no webcomic, no problem!

I mean, sure, we'll be bereft of artistic output and dreams will be crushed...but hey, less stuff to do. Silver lining.

Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!)

what you mean most of us has made somewhat a living doing comics lol(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Lol, I want to make comics so uhhhhh???

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Aw...That sounds sad but depends how the body is presented? I mean I've seen mystery games with afew dead characters? Not a child yet.(edited)

Sometimes I've seen Anime do a light censorship by showing a bloodied child's shoe or gloves, or an arm but it can be disturbing(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

It's just that... dead children is a sensitive topic

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Yeah, a limp arm is what I often see

DanitheCarutor

I think it's because showing dead children is considered taboo? Like some games where you can kill other characters won't give you the ability to kill children, as well as movies that show character deaths won't show a child's death. It might be too insensitive for some people because children are innocent, and many people have had/are having kids, so showing them might be extra upsetting? At least that's what I assume is the reason behind someone saying not to show the child's death.

Ah, didn't notice Cronaj already said it in much fewer words.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

Ah yes, that reminds me that there are places where I put up different warnings than what the comic has - my side stories. Since my side stories are often ways for me to explore different styles of storytelling than the comic proper, they can often have different themes. Off the top of my head - one side story I wrote had a warning for cussing, one had a warning for descriptions of violence against a child, and one had a warning for getting in a bit deep into a character's PTSD. (oddly enough, both of those latter warnings were in reference to the same character, just with a time gap of a few years. though the PTSD in the one story involved a completely different event than the violence depicted in the other story. pejiba's had it rough)

Page, Rambler Extraordinaire!

@Tuyetnhi (Only In Your Dreams!) , @Cronaj (Whispers of the Past) , I was making a joke. :p

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I think the worst thing I'm going to show visually is a dead body and the whole story is about there being a dead body so I don't feel the need for any additional internal content warnings. I think my rule of thumb is just not to show anything that would be more shocking or upsetting than the premise of the comic would have you expect, and to have all warnings at the outset.

I agree with snuffysam's approach to separating darker and scarier content into side stories with their own content warnings or at least I would take a similar approach myself. It's okay to make stories that depict difficult topics but I think it's better not to disrupt the flow of a more lighthearted story if it can be avoided. Exploring difficult topics outside of the main story is a good solution to that

sagaholmgaard

I put a content warning the first time there was some violence and blood in my comic, since the previous pages had been mostly cute so I figured it was warranted. I'm coming up to the second time something potentially triggering happens- a guy gets killed 'on screen', but I don't think it's rendered in a worse way than the first time so I'm considering whether it's good to warn every time a scene like this comes up or if the first warning is enough to readers to have opted out if they dont want that sort of content

chalcara [Nyx+Nyssa]

I had a read-up on age ratings and found out Nyx+Nyssa would fall under PEGI-16 due to realistic violence towards human characters, and will simply stick a 16+ sign into the corner of my page, which links to a conscience explanation why.

Desnik

So recently I've joined a writer's group and they ask people to stick warnings upfront so that readers can opt out of reading something that will upset them. I've found that it's helpful to warn for things that cause certain phobias, religious criticism, and minority experiences depicted w/o a sensitivity reader's guidance. I would also warn for drugs/alcohol usage since reading about that kind of experience can be a trigger for addictions.

I don't tend to write about anything super visceral but when reading I know I appreciate warnings about certain types of gore or violence

I think it's beneficial to be extremely specific with tags because for some reason YA-rated stuff can be very violent (so that makes age-based ratings completely nonsensical). Also not every story is going to treat serious issues with the same gravity so I think it's helpful to mention if some aspect is being treated in a melodramatic/unrealistic manner on purpose.(edited)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

Like a standard comic might take say... 10 pages or more. Webtoon tends to shorten this roughly by half. Or by the 3rd or 4th episode, that major plot point happens.(edited)

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

I feel "have a natural flow" is easier said than done, and also can mean very different things for different stories, and even different readers responding to one story.

(Maybe we should move this to shop talk as it's not relevant to this week's topic?)

Joichi [Hybrid Dolls]

oh this is in shop talk? ok, I thought creator babble was relevant to this.

keii’ii (Heart of Keol)

Nah, creator babble, if I understand it correctly, is specifically for weekly questions. This week's question is about content warnings

AntiBunny

My story is heavily inspired by film noir, so I think the occasional burst of violence should be expected.

[preserving-ferretbrain]

Red Seas Under Red Skies

by Wardog

Friday, 01 February 2008

Wardog praises with faint damnation~

I was nosing about Scott Lynch's LJ (which is endearingly titled The Dork Lord, on His Dork Throne) not so long ago and I came across this:

I was not a fan of the Wheel of Time books, probably because I came to them in my twenties with my tastes already fairly developed. I was never able to get past the opening of the second book, and those of you who've known me for ages I'm sure absorbed my criticism and invective years ago. I once wrote at excruciating length upon the weaknesses of the books as I perceived them, and while I thought it was extremely clever and somehow necessary at the time, the years since have drastically mellowed my taste for mocking the work of other authors who aren't huge assholes in person or pushing a distasteful agenda with their work. About the best I can say for my mosquito bites is that I sincerely hope Jordan himself never had them called to his attention. Something tells me he would have given them the eye roll they deserved.

And the sheer decency of it has sort of shamed me to such an extent (especially since I am a non-achiever who hangs about on the internet criticising other people's work) that I can hardly bring myself to review Red Seas Under Red Skies, especially since my attempt to write about The Lies of Locke Lamora degenerated into a (semi-harmless) mock-fest of Scott Lynch's hair. By the way the important word in that sentence was "hardly." With this mind and all due humility, here are some thoughts on Red Thingies Over/Under Red Other Thingies, which I shall hereafter refer to as RSURS for the sake of my sanity. It's the second book in the Gentleman Bastard sequence which will, I understand, eventually form a septet. I have to say, this idea distresses me. Not only has Harry Potter soured me on the number seven for life but, given the fact the fantasy genre generally can't cope with trilogies, the idea of a septet seems utterly ludicrous to me. I mean, what do you have to say that takes seven books? Seriously?

For the moment, however, Scott Lynch seems to have something to say. Ultimately there's no point in reading RSURS if you haven't read The Lies of Locke Lamora not because it doesn't almost stand alone but because familiarity with the background, the setting and the characters deepens the experience of reading. To give it due credit: RSURS is reasonably satisfying on its own terms. You can feel the slow gathering of plot upon the horizon like distant clouds (and fear the coming storm) and there are some massive danglers just left hanging in a deliberately taunting and irritating fashion but, hey, thems the breaks with this kind of thing. And, as in Lies, the mysterious Sabetha, the apparent love of Locke's life, is alluded to but remains absent: for fuck's sake, Lynch, stop it. You know she's just going to be a total let down after a build up like this.

The problems evident in Lies are evident in RSURS, only slightly moreso because you don't have the novelty factor of being a first book to distract you from them. If you didn't like Locke the first time round, you won't like him here because he's exactly the same and still, some might argue, something of a Mary Sue or the male equivalent thereof. Although I don't personally object to the love affair Scott Lynch is tenderly enacting with his (anti)hero, I do struggle somewhat with the character. As I think I said in my review of Lies, he's absolutely the nicest bastard you could ever hope to meet: he never harms or kills anybody who doesn't thoroughly deserve it, his supposedly long-dead conscience miraculously reappears whenever he's confronted by any sort of cruelty or injustice and his unswerving and self-sacrificing loyalty to his friends is a virtue of such magnitude that it eclipses everything remotely unsympathetic about him. It shouldn't, but that's the way fiction works: if your character cares about the same people as the reader, it doesn't really matter how that character behaves, they're always going to garner a degree of support and approval.

I wouldn't mind this so much if I didn't have the feeling that Locke is supposed to be a shady character for a dark world. Perhaps I have the wrong end of the stick and Locke was never meant to be anything but a big bleeding heart beneath a thin veneer of survivalist criminality but I don't think so. I think the problem with Locke Lamora is that he's neither enough of one thing nor its opposite: he's neither selfish enough to be a convincing anti-hero nor virtuous enough to be a convincing hero. I know part of his shtick is his shifting sense of self and I'm not averse to complicated, contradictory characters but I find Locke incoherent rather than complex. I'm genuinely uncertain as to what Lynch is trying to do with the character or what we're meant to think. I'm not saying he doesn't do terrible things - he mutilates someone (who, admittedly, deserves it) in the first book - but everything he does that's vile and shocking is excusable whereas everything he does that's compassionate is extraordinary. For example, in RSURS, he and Jean, hanging out a decadent casino called the Sinspire, witness an entertainment in which a young nobleman, unable to pay his debts, has to survive in cage of stiletto wasps. Needless to say he doesn't and Locke secretly makes a blessing over the young man's forgotten corpse:

"Crooked Warden," Locke muttered under his breath, speaking quickly, "a glass poured on the ground for a stranger without friends. Lord of gallants and fools, ease this man's passage to the Lady of the Long Silence. This was a hell of a way to die. Do this for me and I'll try not to ask for anything for a while. I really do mean that this time."

There is no reason for this scene to be in the book (not that it isn't cool) - there are plenty examples of the upper classes being cruel and bloodthirsty to make the point and if the stiletto wasps are at all relevant beyond providing atmosphere they're certainly not to this book. In fact, its only purpose is to remind us that Locke Lamora is great and to show him, thief and conman that he is, being humane in the face of the world's inhumanity.

Unlike some of the reviews I've read, I've never had a problem with the snappy, modern dialogue and the very modern obscenity. In fact, I genuinely relish it. Unfortunately, it was during RSURS that I realised something that had passed me by in the first book: it's the only kind of dialogue Lynch can write. Everyone sounds the same. Pirates, noblemen, thieves, priests Locke, Jean: they're interchangeable. Witty but interchangeable.

"And now, my dear professional pessimist," said Locke... "my worry merchant, my tireless font of doubt and derision ... what do you have to say to that? "Oh very little to be sure... it's so hard to think, overawed as I am with the sublime genius of your plan." "That bears some resemblance to sarcasm." "Gods, forefend," said Jean. "You wound me! Your inexpressible criminal virtues have triumphed again, as inevitably as the tides comes and go. I cast myself at your feet and beg for absolution. Yours is the genius that nourishes the heart of the world." "And now you're-" "If only there was a leper handy," interrupted Jean, "so you could lay your hands on him and magically heal him-" "Oh you're just farting out of your mouth because you're jealous."

And so on. And here we have Jean talking to his ladylove:

"Have you really been practicing on barrels Jerome?" "Barrels. Yes. They never laugh, they never ridicule you and they offer no distractions." "Distractions?" "Barrels don't have breasts." "Ah. So what have you been telling these barrels?" "This bottle of brandy," said Jean, "is still too full for me to begin embarrassing myself like that." "Pretend I'm a barrel then." "Barrels don't have br-" "So I've heard. Find the nerve, Valora." "You want me to pretend that you're a barrel, so I can tell you what I was telling barrels back when I was pretending they were you." "Precisely." "Well ... you have ... you have such hoops as I have never seen in any cask on any ship, such shiny and well-fit hoops-" "Jerome-" "And your staves! Your staves ... so well planned, so tightly fit. You are as fine a cask as I ever seen, you marvellous little barrel. To say nothing of your bung-."

See what I mean?

I think in my review of Lies I commented on the deftness and subtlety of the world building - well, in RSURS, the action has moved from a city made of elderglass to a city consisting of islands made of elderglass. Astonishing. And sadly the delicacy of touch seems to have been replaced by the typical fantasy fiction obsession with geographic detail. It's nowhere near Perdido Street Stationbut, as much as I enjoy Lynch's world, there's a bit too much of this sort of thing:

Tal Verrar, the Rose of the Gods, at the westernmost edge of what the Therin people call the civilised world. If you could stand in thin air a thousand yards above Tal Verrar's tallest towers, or float in lazy circles there like the nations of gulls that infest the city's crevices and rooftops, you would see how its vast, dark islands have given this place its ancient nickname. They whirl outward from the city's heart, a series of crescents steadily increasing in size, like the stylised petals of a rose in an artist's mosaic.

And so on for two or more pages at a time. A bit like this review really.

Also it has to be said, the plot makes no sense whatsoever. It attempts to follow the embedded narrative format of the first book but it feels strained: Lynch occasionally plays with chronology, explaining how events came about after they occur, and offers a few reminiscences but it's noticeably a device now, rather than the most natural vehicle to tell the story. And, like the first book, it begins with Locke and Jean mid-heist only to drag them - reluctant and swearing as ever - into much bigger events, allowing the plot to twist, turn, double back on itself and eventually come full circle in a strangely satisfying manner. Except this time, it turns out that the Archon of Tal Verrar wants them to become ... wait for it ... pirates. Yes. Pirates. Two conmen from the streets of Camorr. Pirates. Now, I know that pirates are just inherently cool and you can't go wrong with them but still, come on. What's next? Locke Lamora and some ninjas? Locke Lamora and zombies? I don't know whether to respect the sheer brass bollocks ludicrousness of it or complain bitterly because it has to be the most spurious excuse for a plot I've ever encountered. And the fact that even main characters complain about the stupidity doesn't actually counteract that stupidity:

"Send us out to sea to find an excuse for you, that's what you said," said Locke. "Send us out to sea. Has your brain swelled against the inside of skull? How the screaming fucking hell do you expect the two of us to raise a bloody pirate armada in a place we've never been and convince it to come merrily die at the hands of the navy that bent it over the table and fucked it in the arse last time."

This is Lynch's latest technique, by the way, one I think he might have borrowed from JK Rowling. He seems have developed a tendency to address the inevitable plot holes of his novels by having his characters draw attention to it. To be honest,

fridge logic

doesn't bother me - I don't care how Buffy the Vampire slayer pays the mortgage on her dead mother's house or how Sydney Bristow circles the globe in half an episode - but attempting to pass it off as anything other than what it is offends me. Having the Archon blackmail Locke and Jean into mustering a pirate armada for political reasons is little more than a blatant excuse for the author to have them messing about with pirates, which is in itself fair enough. However, having Locke and Jean constantly bitching about the insanity of the plan even as they enact it only serves to induce bouts of fridge logic before you're even anywhere near the fridge. It also leads to odd little moments like this:

"Why not?" [said Jean] "Why not? We carry your precious misery with us like a holy fucking relic. Don't talk about Sabetha Belacoros. Don't talk about the plays. Don't talk about Jasmer or Espara or any of the schemes we ran. I lived with her for nine years, same as you, and I've pretended she doesn't fucking exist to avoid upsetting you. Well I'm not you. I'm not content to live like an oath-bond monk. I have a life outside your gods-damned shadow."

Err...actually Jean, you're a sidekick. Haven't you noticed? You actually do not have a life outside Locke Lamora's gods-damned shadow. The more Lynch tries to demonstrate to the reader that Jean is a person in his own right the less convincing it becomes. All it does is illustrate the fact that whatever Jean does on his own account is completely meaningless because his only relevance is tied to his supporting role, a role to which he will always return. His short-lived relationship - although actually moderately engaging, while it lasts - is only further evidence of this. You can see its inevitably tragic conclusion approaching on the horizon like the sails of the good ship Obvious.

The other thing I'm feeling a little bit peeved is Lynch's reliance on a technique he seems to have ganked from Alias. Now, I'm not sure if it continues in the later seasons but the early episodes of Alias always end with a cliff-hanger. And at first I used to get tremendously caught up in them. Oh no, I'd cry, Sydney is hanging from a cliff with only her suspender belt between her and certain death. Oh no, Sydney's rival has locked her in the poison-gas filled vault. Oh no, Sydney is being held at gunpoint by the bad guys. And then I'd insist that we watched another episode to find out what was going to happen, only to be faintly disappointed when the desperate, deadly situation resolved itself harmlessly in about two minutes of screen time. RSURS opens with Locke and Jean caught at crossbow-point on the docks and then, gasp, ever-faithful Jean turns on Locke. The novel then spools backwards in time to show you how they got themselves into this mess and, yes, it's arresting except that it's basically just like Alias, a cliff-hanger critical on the surface but ultimately completely meaningless and wrapped up quicker than a streaker at a tennis match. A couple of similar situations happen over the course of the book and, despite the satisfactory resolution of the plot, there's one left right at the end. I suspect I'd be more interested/frustrated by this Tense and Terrible State Of Affairs if the experience of the rest of the novel hadn't led me to the conviction that it's merely there for affect.

Okay, so I've just written four pages of bitching about RSURS but the fact remains that, despite its flaws, despite everything in it that doesn't quite work for me, I still heartily enjoyed it and very nearly loved it. Pirates, for God's sake, pirates! It's not quite as taut as the first book but once Locke and Jean hit the high seas the pace really picks up and the book becomes wonderful fun, sweeping you along on sheer exuberance and panache. And, damn it all, that's good enough for me. Roll on book three.Themes:

Books

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Arthur B

at 01:09 on 2008-02-02It strikes me that the Gentleman Bastard series embodies a problem I have with lots of fantasy series, namely that one book is really enough. I've felt absolutely no urge to go and read RSURS, and most of the things you point out in the review cement that; sure, it seems to be more of the same, and that's well and good - at least it's not a serious decline. On the other hand, one

Lies of Locke Lamora

is enough for me - having read one book, I don't feel as though anything the other books say can really add anything. (I'm also utterly unconvinced that there's enough juice in the Gentleman Bastards concepts to fill 7 books. I mean, for goodness' sake, he's only on the second book in the series and already he's resorted to pirates.)

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empink

at 02:49 on 2008-02-02@ ArthurB: Forsooth, he *will* go to ninjas next.

You know, I had more faith in this guy. I thought he'd at least 'fess up about Sabetha whatshername, or tie the book back to the first one, or do something other than send Jean and Locke to cavort with pirates for no good reason. It made for fantastic cavorting and rather dull and simplistic reading, though-- I won't be buying any more sequels in hardback, or holding on to them out of guilt either.

Oh, and Kyra, the DIALOGUE. Everyone does sound the same, it's so boring. No one is allowed to be stupid, or say frightening things without twisting themselves into witty shapes and cursing fit to kill themselves. It was all right in the first book, but in RSURS, it starts to look like lack of imagination on Lynch's part.

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Arthur B

at 12:04 on 2008-02-02Yeah, I can think of several points in the first book where I had to start reading a conversation again from the beginning because I lost track of who was who. It's this really weird blind spot in Lynch's writing; he can, when he tries, differentiate between characters in terms of disposition, personality, and so forth, and you can tell that by looking at their actions. (To pick the most obvious example, Jean is far more inclined to charge headlong into a fight like a raging bull than Locke is.) But he's chronically incapable of differentiating them when they're speaking.

I can only assume that he finds dialogue difficult (and to be fair, dialogue

is

difficult), and is trying to compensate by finding a style of dialogue he's quite good at and applying it to everyone.

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Wardog

at 14:23 on 2008-02-04I'm glad the dialogue thing isn't only me ... it's the main problem I have with the series to be honest, despite all my trivial bitching above. After a while, it gets really wearing and the characters all start blurring into each other because I find that it's language rather than behaviour that distinguishes people in books - heh, she says, massively generalising.

I think I must be less bothered by "more of the same" than Arthur is - I genuinely enjoyed both books and I'll happily read more (although I've never splashed out a hardback of either, so the cost of my good will is significantly cheaper than Empink's!) as long as they stay on this kind of level (or get better!). I do find them a nice antidote to ponderous, serious fantasy. I genuinely dig the exuberance and the irreverence.

Also I've been poking about Scott Lynch's personal sites and he seems like a pretty decent, charmingly humble guy...

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Cheriola

at 16:16 on 2014-07-26You know, oddly most of the things you mention didn't bother me at all. Except the utter pointlessness of the opening cliffhanger.

The only thing I did have a problem with is the way Jean shames Locke out of his depression, and Locke keeps apologising for "letting Jean down" in those few weeks for literally the next two years. I mean, in this book, it still reads like he's just mourning/recuperating a little too self-indulgently and maybe like he has a really short bout of alcoholism - but since the next book starts pretty much the same (except Locke has even more good reason to be depressed), and Jean then actually makes a reference to some kind of mental disorder (more something like Freud's innate death wish than depression, but still), it becomes problematic in hindsight. Especially since, either intentionally or not, Locke pretty much reads like a textbook case for bipolar disorder (spending most of each book in a manic phase), if you read all 3 books right after another. So for largely-neurotypical Jean to go "If I can handle our losses, why can't you?" and being sucessful at shaming/angering Locke out of suicidal depressive phases, that's rather problematic in my eyes. I know it fits with the setting that nobody has a clue about modern psychology and how Locke's mood issues are a disease, not willful misbehaviour, but Lynch should find a way to make at least narratively clear that Jean isn't right to do this. Besides, that kind of shaming would just make things worse with a real depressive person.

By the way, I'm fairly sure Locke is supposed to be a straight up trickster hero. Like Robin Hood, or the characters of the show "Leverage". He's not just a crook, he's also a priest and he really does believe in his duty to the dead and that holy mission for class revenge that Father Chains put them all on. (Even if this was retconned into this book and not in the first.) If anything he gets ever kinder from book to book. I think the third one literally points out that Camorr culture is particularly brutal, macho and homophobic compared to all the other city states, and much of Locke's initial darkness is part of his culture (like for example an extreme belief in having to take personal, blood-feud style vengeance) and that this is supposed to be a character flaw. But as he spends time in other cultures, he grows out of some of it. For example, in the first book, he calls the villain homophobic slurs several times. After encountering the queer-positive pirates in the second novel and that little discussion with "I'll try anything once - or 5 or 6 times" guy, he never does that again. And by book 3, when encountering a random pair of gay lovers making out in a garden and being tempted to go through their discarded clothing for their wallets, he stops his kleptomaniac impulse by reminding himself that doing malice to happy lovers would be bad karma.

Also, the losses of his friends, the brush with alcoholism and several with death have seemed to have made him a lot more sympathetic with other people's failings and tragedies. I actually really liked this character development. Yeah, he starts out as a bit of a cock-sure, obnoxious ass, but he does grow up and mellow out over the years, as one should expect.

Heh, but one character actually goes into a rant in the 3rd book about how Father Chains ruined them all for life as hardened, greed-motivated criminals by saddling them with a conscience. So I guess Lynch sees your problem.

By the way, can you really call a character a Mary Sue if literally none of his grand plans for cons ever work out, sometimes because of his own sheer stupidity (e.g. forgetting the cats), sometimes because his mark is just plain cleverer than him (e.g. the paintings), and the author takes an almost perverse delight in beating the crap out of him on a regular basis?

And, as in Lies, the mysterious Sabetha, the apparent love of Locke's life, is alluded to but remains absent: for fuck's sake, Lynch, stop it. You know she's just going to be a total let down after a build up like this.

I thought so, too, and got annoyed at the on-the-pedestal-putting. But now that I've read book 3, which features Sabetha both at about age 30 and when they were both teenagers: She's not. She's really, truly not. In fact, I was genuinely amazed at Sabetha - she's the best feminist (NOT straw-feminist!) character I've ever seen a male author write. And even if half of her discussions with Locke function mainly to introduce the male part of the audience to concepts like male entitlement to female sexuality, Nice Guy behaviour, Shroedinger's Rapist, victim blaming, the general frustration inherent in being an ambitious, highly talented woman in a patriarchal society and the frustration of being in love a with patriarchally socialised guy (who messes up occasionally even if he tries very, very hard not to, and who can't help the unfair male privilege that said society gives him), and that what feminists most want in a man is the ability to listen and learn - even if she's a bit of a mouthpiece in that regard: It's for a good and noble cause, and the author's heart is in the right place. And besides, there still is a clever, head-strong, angry, conflicted, and of course snarky character behind all the Issues. Her characterisation and reasons for leaving are thoroughly believeable, and also function as an Author's Saving Throw by actually pointing out in-text that the worldbuilding in the first book was problematic. Locke and Sabetha are still in love when they meet again, and they are surprisingly mature about their falling out and their attempts to fix it (if not in their professional rivalry...)

And Locke's adoring pedestal-putting, claiming her to be the love of his life, and his whole fixation on her are just that, quite literally - and the text seems aware that it is creepy, and the only thing that saves it is the fact that Locke is absolutely respectful of Sabetha's wishes and never, ever would force so much as a kiss on her. (I found the retconned-in reason for the fixation a bit sad, though: Until book 3, Locke could be read as demisexual for only ever being romantically/sexually attracted to one person. Then it's retconned as having creepy magical reasons that I don't want to spoil.)

The only thing about Sabetha I found a little... amusing, was that teenage Locke was almost too understanding and willing to accept anything feminism-related that she says and to change accordingly. Like I bet the author wishes he was at the age of 16, now that he finally gets it. Still, again, if it serves as a positive role model for male teenage readers, I'm fine with that kind of Mary-Sue-ism. Maybe it's a little preachy, especially since Lynch tries to cover so many topics, but I was just smiling through the whole thing. We do need more books like this.

The con plot of book 3 is a bit meh (basically it's a satire about 'democratic' elections, where Sabetha and Locke are press-ganged into controlling the campaign of one rivaling but politically indistinguishable party each, with all methods allowed short of murder, all ostensibly just for the entertainment of the people who really control the power in this 'republic' - their lives are being threatened to keep them in line, but it just doesn't have the personal stakes and sense of danger that the previous books had), and the teenage flashback is largely about the gang having to stage an annoyingly faux-Shakespearean play while conning a noble into paying for the production. So the relationship between Locke and Sabetha and the object lesson in how to make feminism 101 easily digestible in a fantasy novel, really are the main draws of the book. The meta plot for the series gets going right at the end, though. Which to me felt a bit like jumping the shark, but YMMV.

But I really do recommend the 3rd book, even if the plot is a little weak. Just for the sheer surrealness of reading a male author who manages to get practically everything right with regards to feminism. I mean, I've just read Elizabeth Bear's "Carnival" thinking she must have been the one to teach Lynch - but even she had like two dozen points in that ecofeminist polemic that made me headdesk.

(That book also needs a Ferret review, by the way. It's not thoroughly bad, as such, but the social philosophising made me uncomfortable and I wasn't always sure if I was supposed to be, and the worldbuilding has huge holes at least from my biologist/ecologist point of view. Still, queer protagonists are rare and deserve a mention.)

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Robinson L

at 20:15 on 2016-12-21

Cheriola: You know, oddly most of the things you mention didn't bother me at all. Except the utter pointlessness of the opening cliffhanger.

That pretty much sums up my feelings about the book, too. I guess I just think of this series as running on Rule of Cool and nothing else. Locke and Jean become pirates? Sure, why not? Doesn’t make sense? Who cares? And of course they’re going to complain about how ridiculous the Archon’s plan for them is, but that’s part of the fun.

Dialogue’s all the same? Ehn, so what? It’s all fun. And like you, I relish the modern snappiness/obscenity.

I mean, I don’t blame Wardog or Empink or anyone else who is bothered by this stuff, but just for myself, it seemed fine.

Wardog: I genuinely dig the exuberance and the irreverence.

That’s me, all the way (well, more like ~90% …)

I think the series is of two minds about whether Locke is actually supposed to be kind of an awful person or a stand up guy who happens to be a criminal—but as explained in my comment to the

Lies

review, I’ve chosen not to engage with those aspects and treat the whole thing as a rollicking adventure yarn. I will, however, once again point out a couple instances from this book of Character We’re Supposed to Root For Acts Like a Shitheel and Is In No Way Critiqued For It By the Text presently.

Re: description

And sadly the delicacy of touch seems to have been replaced by the typical fantasy fiction obsession with geographic detail.

Okay, here we come to a criticism I wholeheartedly agree with. Ye GODS but the description got tedious at times. It got tedious on

audiobook

; I shudder to think of trying to slog through it in text format.

I didn’t so much resent the book ending on a cliffhanger – although by the time I got to it, <Republic of Thieveslt/i> was already out, so I knew I’d be reading the next installment in a few months. Mostly, though, I was just relieved the cliffhanger revolved around Locke’s survival rather than Jean’s, because there’s a chance, however slight, of the series killing off Locke’s sidekick before the final book, whereas there’s absolutely none with Locke. So I appreciate the book making it absolutely clear that it’s not really a question of

if

the poisoned character will survive, but

how

.

His [Jean’s] short-lived relationship - although actually moderately engaging, while it lasts - is only further evidence of this. You can see its inevitably tragic conclusion approaching on the horizon like the sails of the good ship Obvious.

I think you undersell the extent to which the tragic conclusion was telegraphed beforehand. We’re talking

a MegaBrooks at the very least

. And I don’t think it would be humanly possible for the way it played out to have been any more cliché. Not to mention the whole fridging angle. Easily the lowest point of the series so far for me.

I thought RSURS handled the aftermath of said inevitable tragic conclusion a heck of a lot less annoyingly than most other books with similar big deaths I’ve encountered, though (lookin’ at you,

Harry Potter

). Jean is, of course, grief-stricken, and the book portrays the depth of his unhappiness while mostly avoiding an Epic Angst Sequence (seriously, there are few things in fiction less engaging than characters sitting around moping), and even sets up some genuinely touching moments, such as in the immediate aftermath of Ezri’s death, when Locke talks Jean down by threatening to throw himself at Jean, forcing the latter to beat the crap out of him (Locke), “and then you’ll feel terrible.”

Yes, pretending Jean is anything more than Locke’s sidekick is on par with “suddenly, Harry realized Dumbledore had actually been a fully-fleshed, three-dimensional character the entire time.” (Book 3 confirms this, when, after Locke is all patched up, Jean slips happily back into his role as Locke’s Number 2 without a hint of lingering grief over Ezri’s death, even as he’s helping out his best buddy romance Sabetha.) However, I thought the conflict between Locke and Jean set off by this outburst of Jean’s you quote in the article was actually pretty decent in terms of a “tensions between the series’ Main Pairing” subplot, which are usually of the eye-bleedingly terrible variety.

And what’s this guff about “moderately engaging?” I found it one of the two most engrossing parts of the story, along with some of Locke and Jean’s interactions. Jean and Ezri are adorable in every single scene they’re together: they bond over martial arts (with Jean being impressed that tiny Ezri actually managed to take him down at first), and their mutual affection for the Gentleman Bastardverse’s Shakespeare analogue. And then there’s the celebration scene where the two of them officially get together, soon after Jean has had his argument with Locke. And he’s keeping his distance from Ezri and it seems like at first he’s heeding Locke’s “you need to stay away from her, bro” bullshit, but it turns out, no, he’s craning away because he’s near-blind and he’s trying to see her properly and it’s incredibly cute you guys, like seriously.

Another thing I really like about the Jean / Ezri relationship is that the presentation feels balanced. I instantly get why Ezri is attracted to Jean as much as why Jean is attracted to Ezri, and in that scene during the celebration where, of course, Jean is being all shy and awkward, there’s a part where we suddenly see Ezri being shy and awkward as well. I’ve read a lot of similar romance arcs—especially those told from the male perspective—where the viewpoint character is vulnerable and complex while their love interest is all strong and confident and basically put on a pedestal.

I actually found it more engaging than Locke’s relationship with Sabetha in

Republic of Thieves

. While I agree with Cheriola that Sabetha is a great character, we don’t get much sense of her interior life, and the only times she displays vulnerability are when it directly relates to Locke. Also, it takes a long time into the story for her to tell Locke and the reader why she’s attracted to him, and I don’t feel the text really

shows

her being attracted the way RSRUS does with Ezri.

RSURS opens with Locke and Jean caught at crossbow-point on the docks and then, gasp, ever-faithful Jean turns on Locke. The novel then spools backwards in time to show you how they got themselves into this mess and, yes, it's arresting except that it's basically just like Alias, a cliff-hanger critical on the surface but ultimately completely meaningless and wrapped up quicker than a streaker at a tennis match.

Oh my god, that was the worst; maybe even worse than Ezri’s death.

I detest flash-forward openings as a general rule. I feel like there

may

have been one or two I’ve encountered which actually worked okay, but if so I can’t remember them now. Those possible examples aside, at best, flash-forward openings contribute f***-all of substance to the story, and at worst they undermine immersion by distracting the reader from the current action with questions which aren’t going to be answered for another 200-400 pages.

To be fair, some flash-forward openings, while still crap, sometimes do something clever with the reader’s expectations (I remember one where a guy wakes up and wonders what the heck is going on, and when we get to that part of the book in turns out the original guy died, and this is a clone, so that waking up sequence is technically his birth). RSURS is not one of those stories, though. The sequence takes on no new significance or added meaning for having read the rest of the book up to that point.

But wait, it gets

better

! Jean turning on Locke is in itself not terribly surprising: they are master con artists, after all. The linchpin (no pun intended) of the tension to this scene is that Jean fails to give the hand signals which mean “this is a scam, play along,” leaving Locke, and the readers, to wonder if this is a real betrayal, after all. Then, after Jean has dispatched the two assassins he says: “Oh, yeah, didn’t you see me giving the hand signal which means ‘this is a scam, play along’?” and Locke is all like, “Gosh, man, I must’ve missed it.” And that’s an end to it. Are you f**king kidding me?

Granted, this sort of stuff happens all the time in real life, but narratively speaking, it’s the worst kind of cheap trick for creating false tension. It

might

have been forgivable if there were some long-term consequences to the whole business. Locke and Jean have both been dosed with a slow-acting poison at this point in the story, and I thought maybe Locke’s failure to notice the hand signal was an early warning sign that the poison is beginning to effect his perception. But

no

. Or maybe Jean really was considering turning on Locke for some reason or other and then had a change of heart, and made up the part about the hand signal. No sign of that, either.

Look, I’m glad Jean doesn’t actually betray Locke, because as story turns go, that would have been at least as irritating as Ezri’s death, probably worse. But first you hit me with this bullshit flash-forward, then you double down on the bullshit by revealing the whole thing was just a trifling misunderstanding with no effing consequences whatsoever? What a waste of time.

… So yeah, on balance, I was not well pleased or amused by this sequence, especially as our hook into the main story.

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Robinson L

at 20:30 on 2016-12-21And now it’s time for another installment of Robinson Dissects the Ethics of the

Gentleman Bastard

Books. This week’s episode: Captain Zamira Drakasha Edition.

So yeah, Zamira is all kinds of awesome, but like with the other main characters, it’s best to turn one’s critical thinking off when thinking about her actions, or it becomes very hard to think of her as any kind of hero.

Case in point: she takes Locke, Jean, and the rest of their sorry crew onto her ship as probationary pirates. You do good, you play by the rules, you become full crew members; you step out of line, you die. All pretty standard stuff, except it turns out when she says she will kill you for breaking the rules, she means it.

One of the guys who originally signed on with Locke and Jean now despises the two of them intensely and is kind of an asshole in general, so the reader is primed to dislike him. He’s getting picked on by some of Zamira’s crew members, and finally he gets pushed too far and grabs a weapon to defend himself with. But laying hands on a weapon is against Zamira’s rules, so she has him executed on the spot. For the kind of mistake that anybody could make. And the reader is supposed to be okay with this because the guy was made to be unlikable. It could just as easily have been someone like Jean or Locke making a similar mistake, prompting Zamira to execute them, and the reader to hate her, in turn. We’re not invited to judge her character based on her actions, but on how we feel about the characters she acts against.

Later, there’s the time when we first see Zamira’s

Poison Orchid

attack a merchant ship, which involves pretending to be in peril themselves. As the pirates are preparing to board the ship, one of Zamira’s lieutenants tells the new recruits “if any of you are feeling moral qualms about attacking these merchants, just remember that they thought we were in distress, and only came to help us when we signaled we were willing to give them unconditional salvage rights.” Which, if you stop to think about it, is a

really

clever rationalization to psych people up to potentially commit an atrocity. I mean, if that were the point of the sequence—which it isn’t—I would’ve said it was brilliant. For all they know, the captain of the merchant ship was just a huge asshole, and literally everyone else aboard was clamoring to help the

Poison Orchid

right from the beginning.

It also seemed like, in the three way struggle between the Archon, Stragos; the proprietor of the big gambling den, Requin; and the members of the Priori; Stragos winds up being the Designated Villain of the book, not because his actions are worse than those of Requin or the Priori (we’ve already established they can be equally vicious), but because it happens to be Stragos’ actions which got Jean’s girlfriend killed. He gets punished, whereas Requin and the Priori members get happy endings, only because Stragos hurt someone the reader is supposed to care about.

Locke and Jean are quick to forgive the Priori member who was sending assassins after them because the Bondsmages told him the two Gentleman Bastards were going to cause him trouble. Which, okay, the assassins all failed, and all got killed, but by the logic of this story they were probably all Bad Men who deserved what they got, so no harm, no foul, right? Except, no, there

was

harm. One of the attempts to kill Locke and Jean was a really convoluted scheme to give them free drinks which were laced with poison. And the thing about convoluted schemes is that they’re full of holes, as in this one where Locke and Jean weren’t interested in the drink in question, and passed theirs on to the dockworker at the next table, who proceeded to die in their stead. No one in the story ever gets any kind of comeuppance for this murder, ‘cause I guess we’re not supposed to care about red shirts.

So basically, what I’m trying to say here is that the ethics of this series are all kinds of messed up if you look closely.

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Robinson L

at 00:00 on 2016-12-22

Cheriola: book 3, when encountering a random pair of gay lovers making out in a garden and being tempted to go through their discarded clothing for their wallets, he stops his kleptomaniac impulse by reminding himself that doing malice to happy lovers would be bad karma.

That was cute. Another very minor point I appreciated from that book was in a scene where Locke has to hold Sabetha as part of this play they’re performing and the narrator (speaking broadly from Locke’s perspective) talks about what it’s like for someone to hold another person whom they’re attracted to. It would have been

so

easy to gender the subject of attraction in that sentence as female, or to say something like “a person of the opposite sex whom they’re attracted to.” But no, it’s a general statement, and so the book sticks with generalities, not making stereotypes about the genders or orientations involved. Again, a minor point, but one I’ve seen even a lot of nominally well-intentioned works fail at, so I was mildly impressed.

I was genuinely amazed at Sabetha - she's the best feminist (NOT straw-feminist!) character I've ever seen a male author write.

I think it was this part which finally clinched it for me to read the series. As a male author myself, I can’t help but take it as a challenge.

As mentioned earlier, though, I feel like we didn’t get much sense of Sabetha’s internal life, except as it relates to Locke, and she has to tell Locke (and the reader) what particularly attracts her to Locke, rather than the book showing us.

It probably was implausible to have 16-year-old Locke be so receptive to Sabetha’s Feminism 101 lectures, but for me it was preferable to the second hand embarrassment of having Locke throw out insipid, MRA-apologist arguments for Sabetha to shoot down.

Since I’m not seeing a

Republic of Thieves

review on the horizon, I suppose I might as well give my thoughts on the book in general. Overall, I liked it, and Sabetha is a fine addition to the series’ cast.

I also kind of dug the way the main caper of the book was not a high stakes life or death game of taking on some brutal, affluent, entitled snot or other, but rather fixing an upcoming election. It shows you can have all the same drama and intrigue without putting countless lives on the line, which comes as a nice change of pace. (Granted, it turns out there are countless lives on the line in the Bondsmagi’s larger game, but that only comes up after the whole thing is over, so in my view it still counts.)

My political sensibilities being what they are, I particularly liked the election angle to the plot because the book depicts it as 1) an aristocratic exercise with no pretense of populist input (only a small fraction of the city’s residents have the franchise), and 2) a complete farce in any case, because who gets elected has f**k all to do with who’s better leadership material or has the best policies – the book dispenses with such preposterous fig leaves and dives straight into the real heart of electoral politics: naked corruption, double dealing, and general chicanery. There’s also the implication that who gets elected is ultimately trivial in terms of how Karthain is actually run, because the real ruling elite (in this case, the Bondsmagi), make damn sure that in practice, it gets run exactly the way they believe produces the greatest benefit for the city’s inhabitants. (The book seems to suggest that what they think is best for Karthain really is, which is where its views and mine diverge, but other than that, I’m completely on board with the book’s representation.)

Locke’s backstory seemed … really out of place. Given how magic has always taken such a tertiary role in the books up to that point, I didn’t expect it to play such a huge part in Locke’s past. This felt like the backstory to a character in a very different type of story, honestly. But other than that it’s just kind of, “whatever.”

[gallifreyanlibertea]

OH OH OH. VAMPIRES?

Pseudo-Vampire

a/n: here’s a silly fic I wrote in a day. this ask is kinda old but after reading @clocksfanfiction ‘s Werepha (it’s so dorky and good I promise y’all’ll love it), I looked back at the ask and I was like... okay, I can do that!

Arthur Kirkland was most definitely a vampire- that was the current topic of conversation at Alfred’s table, and it had been the same one ever since Arthur moved into their school.

“Look at him, he barely eats!” Someone whispered, and Alfred cast a glance over at the table where Arthur sat alone. There he was- ridiculously pale, fluffy blond hair atop his head, fork poking at his food once or twice before he leaned back in his chair and got onto his phone.

He then shot a look in their direction, as if having felt eyes watching him. Everyone at Alfred’s table averted their eyes.

“Oh yeah, he’s a vampire, alright,” Alfred muttered, to which his table nodded furiously in agreement.

Alfred then choked down a baby carrot, because if anyone was a blood-sucker in this school, it was most-definitely Alfred, and he was graciously thankful for the red-herring that was this human, who happened to fit right into a vampire stereotype more than, well, him. An actual vampire.

It didn’t help that Arthur was British. For some reason, humans tended to believe that most vampires were British.

“That’s probably why he moved.” The boy beside Alfred said, “Maybe they aren’t nice about vampires in England, or something.”

Ever since a vampire family in the county next to theirs had revealed their identities in an attempt to ‘create harmony between their kinds’- a notion that Alfred and his own family found extremely reckless, seeing as humanity was barely harmonious within themselves- a vampire craze had swept through the nation. Now that everyone knew that they were real, there definitely had to be some in schools, right? Fans of Twilight were quaking.

Mass media took advantage of the situation with numerous cheesy rom-coms about clandestine romances between suave vampires-in-hiding and morally confused, often sexually inexperienced, humans. Alfred had watched almost every single one of them.

The vampires in the movies were almost always British, with smouldering eyes and a mysterious, crooked smile.

Which wasn’t quite different from Arthur Kirkland, now that Alfred thought about it. The first day Alfred had met him, he’d stared- not because he suspected Arthur to be a vampire, like everyone else had, but, well… he was cute. He’d been wearing a sweater vest (at which Alfred’s friend had raged because maybe he doesn’t know how to dress like he’s our age because he isn’t our age!), and he’d met Alfred’s gaze across the classroom with a shy, crooked smile.

But Alfred had checked, and Arthur was definitely human. The smell of blood pulsing through his body was unmistakable.

That adorable flush of pink on his cheeks when he had been forced to introduce himself to the class also ruled him out, but apparently, no one but Alfred had noticed, seeing as the entire school was convinced Arthur was undead.

Alfred had the same second period as Arthur, so he watched Arthur walk to his locker after first, a startled expression on his face as he approached a group of giggling girls.

“Excuse me, this is... I need access to my locker.”

It didn’t help that Arthur used “fancy” words. A rumour had begun to circulate that Arthur was a vampire from nineteenth-century England, effectively explaining his advanced vocabulary.

Alfred had had a good chuckle over that one.

“I made some garlic bread yesterday, would you like some?” The girl blocking Arthur’s path to his locker said.

Alfred pretended to be in line for the water fountain next to the scene. He bit back a smile at the expression of raw confusion on Arthur’s face.

“No, I would not. Now if you could move so I-”

The girls speed-walked to their next class, giggling and whispering under their breath. No doubt Arthur’s aversion to garlic would spread around the entire school by this time tomorrow.

Arthur’s confusion turned into annoyance when he sharply turned his head to meet Alfred’s gaze. “What are you looking at, mate?”

Alfred turned back to the water fountain, finding that it had been free for use for a while now. He took a hasty sip and shuffled into his next class, feeling the boiling gaze of those green eyes on his back.

He’d felt that gaze again an hour later when his biology teacher had cleared her throat, “- and finally, Alfred, you’ll be with Arthur. Now everyone, get with your partners and make sure you all follow the directions I’ve given you. The lab write-up is due on Monday.”

Someone nudged Alfred in the rib, “Draw a cross in your lab book and see how he reacts.”

Alfred rolled his eyes as Arthur narrowed his, glaring at him from across the room. Alfred approached him with a shy smile, “Hey, I’m Alfred.”

Arthur clenched his jaw. “I’d introduce myself but you probably already know who I am, seeing as I catch you staring at me at least thrice a day.”

Alfred blinked.

He then laughed, a nervous smile tugging at his lips, “Um… so, do you want to get started, or-?”

Arthur ignored him. “I don’t suppose you’d be able to tell me why this entire school has some sort of inside joke about me.”

Alfred bit his lip.

“Is it my sweater vest? It’s not like I’m wearing the same one every day, they’re all different colours and, well, I have a washing machine so it’s not like I’m being unsanitary, you know.” Arthur fumed. “Is it my accent, or-?”

“No, no,” Alfred said, casting a look over his shoulder. Nobody caught his eye. He cleared his throat. “Well, it’s just that the people here don’t really know you, and, um…”

Arthur cocked a brow. “That’s no excuse for the entire school to give me the cold shoulder.”

“I’m sure someone’s talked to you!” Alfred reasoned.

“You’d be the first,” Arthur said morosely. He fiddled with his sleeve, averting his eyes, “Well, I get the feeling that some people would like to talk to me, but no one ever does, and I’m not quite sure what about me is scaring them… or fascinating them to the point that they... stare.”

“Aw, it’s not like that! I can name about ten people who’ve talked my ear off about how attractive you are and how they’d love to have a conversation with you!”

Arthur went red and Alfred swallowed, hard. The fact was true- perhaps more true pertaining to how Alfred himself felt about the cute British boy- but he wasn’t entirely sure why he lead with it.

“That confuses me even more, then,” Arthur said softly. He picked up a pencil and his notebook, prompted by the muted glare of their biology teacher, “I hope it’s not because I’m being standoffish, I… I’d really like to make friend or two, or… meet a nice, um, boy. Guy.”

Alfred’s attempt to fight away his smile was futile. “There are some really nice guys at this school. And we’re pretty open here- see, I’m out and I haven’t gotten too much trouble, so.”

Arthur smiled. He then straightened his expression abruptly, as if angry he’d let the smile escape him. “Well then, what’s the problem? If it’s not because of the way I dress, or the way I look, or if I’m gay, then-!”

“Well, they think you’re a… a vampire.”

Arthur coughed. “What?”

“A vampire,” Alfred repeated, and he supposed if he were… alive, his cheeks would flush in a manner similar to Arthur’s.

“A vampire!”

“Well, haven’t you heard about that one family?”

Arthur furrowed his eyebrows. He then sighed, shoulders relaxing, “I have. But if I were to place my own bets, I’d definitely say you are more vampire than I am.”

Alfred stilled. “What?”

“Yeah. I saw you yesterday walking about the freezing cold without a jacket, without a single shiver,” Arthur said, as if it were a matter of fact. His eyes widened slightly, as if in realization, and Alfred wasn’t sure if he liked that expression. Arthur’s lip quirked up in a slight smile. “You’re on a track team, right? I’ve seen you run. You run very fast.”

Alfred laughed. Nervously. “So not being cold and running fast makes people vampires, huh?”

Arthur shrugged, “If it’s not that, it’s the fact that the foundation you’re wearing isn’t blended very well near your neck today. You’ve either forgotten to moisturize, or your skin is just naturally that... dull.”

Alfred instinctively touched his neck, to which Arthur smirked.

Well, he’d been running late that morning, so he hadn’t had enough time to check to see if his foundation was flawless. Alfred wasn’t one for makeup unless it was the kind that made his tanned skin look flush with life, rather than tanned skin with a strange grey undertone, as it usually had. He was usually glad that no one at school would expect him to be wearing any foundation. No one could tell if he messed up.

Unless it was Arthur, of course. If Alfred were like the others at school, he’d take that sharp attention to detail of Arthur’s as evidence of him being some predatory, undead creature.

Or perhaps it was because Arthur somehow paid extremely close attention to Alfred and Alfred alone.

That explanation put a slight, metaphorical flutter in Alfred’s heart.

“Look at me. It’s been a few weeks since I’ve moved to America and I’m already a conspiracy nut like the whole lot of this school.” Arthur said, with a slight smile.

And a knowing wink.

Alfred picked up his own notebook. “Being a nut’s not too bad since you’re taking all the attention off me.”

He said it lowly, almost a whisper, hushed. Arthur nodded, as if he understood. “Well, I don’t mind that.” Was his whispered response, “But you’ll have to pay me back for my troubles.”

“We can have lunch this weekend, on me.”

“What, so you can just watch me eat?” Arthur laughed, and it was a nice laugh. It was a cute laugh. If Alfred had a heartbeat, he’d bet that Arthur’s laugh would put a skip in it.

“Trust me, I won’t bite,” Alfred said back, half-joking. “Unless you want me to.”

Alfred regretted that almost immediately. Damn all those bad romance movies for putting that line in his reach! He averted his eyes, setting the experiment up with a feeling similar to having a boulder in the pit of his stomach. “Uh, I mean-”

“That’s a third-date type of question,” Arthur said breezily in reply, as if it came naturally to him. He then froze, his smile nervous, “Um, well-”

And then they were silent, mutually deciding it would be better not to speak for the remainder of the lab. Alfred didn't mind.

Actually, he rather liked glancing at Arthur to find him a deep red in the cheeks, working diligently, glancing back up at Alfred when he thought Alfred wasn’t looking.

He rather liked imagining the looks of shock and awe on his classmates’ faces if he ended up dating Arthur Kirkland- that is, if things went by plan.

“Does he have to hold himself back when he’s with you, so he doesn’t hurt you because you smell so good?”

“Does he sparkle in the sun?”

“Is he, like, unbearable to cuddle with because he’s so cold? You know, because he literally has no blood and all?”

“Have you ever frenched him and cut your tongue on his fang?”

Alfred rather liked the idea of it: Arthur Kirkland, his pseudo-vampire boyfriend. 

[uomo-accattivante]

I love this interview! 👍🏼

Writer/director Alex Garland set a high bar for himself with Ex Machina, his stellar 2015 directorial debut. That sci-fi movie had a lot on its mind, but his newest film, Annihilation, is far more cerebral. It’s one of the most challenging movies of the year: bold, beautiful, and haunting in a way that occasionally verges on being experimental.

Not long ago, I had the opportunity to sit down with Garland and actor Oscar Isaac, who plays a key role in the film, to talk to them about bringing this story to the big screen. We touched on the film’s behind-the-scenes clashes, whether or not Garland was concerned with audiences being able to keep up with what he’s doing in this movie, Isaac’s approach to his troubled character, and much more. Read our full Oscar Isaac and Alex Garland interview below.

Warning: Both Garland and Isaac occasionally drop spoilers in a couple of their responses. If you’re 100% spoiler-averse, I’d suggest bookmarking this and reading it after you see the film. Our interview follows.

***

For me, watching this movie was like walking through a beautiful nightmare. I have not read Jeff VanderMeer’s book yet, but can you tell me about how you crafted the visual aspects of being inside The Shimmer?

Isaac: Sure. (laughs)

Garland: (To Isaac) Go on, do it. (laughs) Yeah, we knew we wanted it to be beautiful and disturbing, often concurrently within the same shot. So really, what happened was, there’s a script. And in the script it’s straightforward in many respects, because it says, like, say, this scene, you’d say, ‘INTERIOR. HOTEL BAY. Three people sit around a coffee table.’ But then of course, production designers and set decorators need to make it something where you can stick a camera. So the script was disseminated among the collective, the group of people who work together, many of whom I’ve worked with for a long time – some of them twenty years. Me and [set decorator] Michelle Day and Mark [Digby] on the production design team, [producer] Andrew [Macdonald] – we’ve worked together on seven or eight movies, so we know each other backwards.

It all goes out, and really what happens is, a conversation starts. Everybody’s got a voice, and everybody’s chipping in, and an organic, evolutionary process begins and it doesn’t really stop. It doesn’t really stop until the picture’s locked. Right in the 59th minute of the twelfth hour, or whatever the right thing to say is, in the grade, these things are being affected hugely. How much do you saturate the colors? Where do you choose to desaturate? Where do you choose to put a bright point in the screen and do we have a vignette on the shot to focus? So it never really stops. It’s a big collective all working together and getting there organically.

Isaac: But at the same time, nudging it towards ‘What’s most disturbing?’ As an example, without trying to give away too much stuff, the ‘fight’ scene at the end between the alien and Lena. I was there for a lot of those rehearsals, and just seeing – it’s such an ephemeral thing. Why is it more disturbing if she’s less aggressive here, but pushing into her? Why is it weirder if this movement happens as opposed to this movement? It’s hard to say why, but it’s one of those things where we wouldn’t think of it, but then (nods to Garland) you’d suggest it, and suddenly we were all like, ‘Yep. That’s definitely creepier.’ Something as subtle as, this alien being, all it is is intention. So seeing the physicality of that idea happen. The collaborative part is, you say that, and then we have to interpret that. How do you physicalize just intention? Then somewhere that alchemy comes together, and everyone gets on the same page and creates something really crazy.

By the end, Kane turns out to be unlike any character you’ve played before. But in the beginning, I was noticing a couple of similarities to the soldier you voice in the Homecoming podcast. Did you think about that character at all when you were making this?

Isaac: Oh, is that right? No, I didn’t. That one, he was a private. Sure, he had kind of gone through some weird stuff, but I think with that one, there was a bit of an innocence. Kane maybe has…it’s a little bit of a different thing. There’s a deeper, darker bubbling thing underneath him.

As the film goes on, it feels increasingly impressionistic and almost experimental at certain points. Were you worried at all about audiences not being able to keep up?

Garland: No. Not really. That’s not to say there’s anything to do with ignoring audiences. It’s not that. But it has to do with what you’re concerned with in relation to the audience, you know? For example, the kind of area where I’d think about it a lot would be to do with strangeness. So the film was, in some ways, conceived backwards. There was this crucial aspect to me that began as Natalie’s character is walking along the beach, and then contains the sequence within a lighthouse. I knew that was the goal, and I knew that I wanted us collectively to achieve a particular level of strangeness and beauty and oddness. Things like the dance sequence that Oscar was just alluding to. It needed to have information, but not information that was stated. It was more inferred. They key thing would be about strangeness, right? What it feels like to watch it. The crucial thing is what would it feel like? So then, you have to think, ‘How do you construct feeling?’

One of them, say in the case of strangeness, is that there’s a diminishing return with it. So if you begin strange, by the time you get to the end strange, you’ve got acclimatized to it and you’ve lost the thing that you’re shooting for. So that created a built-in structure, which on set and in pre-production, we used to call ‘suburbia to psychedelia,’ because it sounds neat and it’s a nice reduction. It’s a nice sound byte, isn’t it? But it’s got truth in it. Because if you start in suburbia, you start in our world, it gives you the chance of getting truly strange, in a way. So everything was sort of structured that way.

Along those same lines, there were some heavily publicized behind-the-scenes clashes about the making of this movie. I know you’re someone who’s not afraid to speak your mind, so I’m just wondering if you’re pleased with how it all turned out.

Garland: I only really give a shit about the film, OK? That’s actually all I care about. So as long as the film honors the intent of the collective, I’m basically happy. That’s what I care about. I think we did everything we could, and I’m proud of it, and I love it, so I’m fine with it.

I’m curious about your process. What kinds of conversations did you guys have about Kane, and was there a moment when you were developing your take on him where everything clicked for you?

Isaac: (Jokingly) Yeah, I had it all figured out, and I walked in and said, ‘Shut up. Sit down. And point the camera at this.’ (points at his own face)

Garland: He set the lens. There was some discussion about the lighting, but Oscar won. That’s the way it goes.

Isaac: (laughs) Yeah, we talked. That’s what we do. We like to talk a lot and we think about things in similar ways, I like to think, and we have a similar sense of humor. So I think my first question was, ‘I know it’s not Predator with girls, but tell me why it’s not Predator with girls.’ No, I’m kidding. I just read it and thought it was fascinating and thought it was so strange and so beautiful, and I wanted to play this character. What was so cool is that he has all this stuff bubbling underneath, as I was saying, so that’s what was most interesting to me. There was almost a Pinter-esque quality to it, where there’s all these pauses and all of this subtext that’s just emanating out of these two people. But they don’t say it. Like Alex said, it’s inferred. So we spoke a lot about that. ‘What is it that’s happening underneath, and what is the nature of this relationship? What do I know now that I’m not saying? In this scene, now what do I know? What does she know?’ Trying to map those things out. Everything had a palpable energy between the characters.

Then coming up with different ideas: ‘Where might he be from? What if I try making his voice sound a little like this? What do you think about that?’ And then at the end, just the nature of the energy of how do we do this speech at the end that’s being filmed? What’s the reason we’re filming it? What’s the intent of it? Getting very specific about that stuff. That’s what a lot of it felt like. And with Alex, it always feels like we’re building a motorcycle together, or building a car. We’re just kind of handing each other the tools and making it together. That’s what’s really fun about it.

Garland: It was actually all built backwards. So for me, for what it’s worth, the whole thing was about earning the speech that Kane says at the end in this locked off shot that just sits there and lets him do it. It’s about the words that are contained there and the things he’s expressing there. Everything else is in support of that moment. The whole film actually is in support of the last thirty minutes, basically. Which sounds like a sort of stupid thing to say, because truly all films are. But actually that’s not exactly true. In a way, every single thing that happens is just inching your way towards this strange metaphysical sequence. And having it not as just abstract firework fun, but having content.

Isaac: Or pain. I think what the last thirty minutes are just this metaphysical pain and despair in some ways.

Garland:(To Oscar, jokingly) That’s how you’re choosing to sell the movie? Are you out of your fucking mind?

Isaac: Let’s go back to Predator with girls. Predator with girls! (laughs)

Garland: It’s true, though. It’s true.

With this and Star Wars, you’re a part of two big recent sci-fi movies that proudly feature women at the forefront of the cast, which is really cool. I know you’re separated from a lot of the ensemble here, but tell me about working with Natalie on this.

Isaac: I was shooting Star Wars at the exact same time, too, so that was a wild thing to –

Wait, you were jumping back and forth between sets?

Isaac: It was literally the same studio.

Oh, cool.

Isaac: So some days I would walk from – I think I still used my trailer from Star Wars…

Garland: Yeah, we didn’t have trailers. But there were days where you were, on the same day, shooting both things.

Isaac: Yeah, there were. I would shoot something in the morning and then have a little bit of down time and then switch it up. So that was wild.

Garland: We’d catch him at his lunch break and say, ‘We’ve got to shoot this now!’ (laughs)

Isaac: I think I visited, too, still dressed up as Poe on the set.

Garland:Yeah, totally.

Isaac: It was pretty wild. It reminded me a little of Pee-Wee’s Big Adventure, when he’s on the lot and you see all the different actors walking around. There was something very classic about it. So there was very little time, and not a lot of rehearsal time, and Natalie and I didn’t know each other. It happens in movies, obviously – you have to suddenly be very intimate with someone very quickly. I think the fact that she was willing to trust me and I was trusting her, and we just went in there and did it and tried to find a real intimacy. Which is always a weird, awkward, strange thing to do suddenly in front of a bunch of people. But we found that, and I really enjoyed those scenes with her. She is very focused, but also in those scenes, very emotionally available as well, so I really enjoyed that.

Garland: It makes me want to name-check Rian [Johnson] and Ram [Bergman], the producer on Star Wars [The Last Jedi]. I think because they come from an indie film background, here they are making like the biggest movie of all time, and they were unbelievably helpful and accommodating to us. And they really didn’t have to be at all. Most big productions would not even dream of doing that. And they went out of their way – whilst making fucking Star Wars, for Christ’s sake – to help this really small movie next door. It was very cool and I’m truly grateful for it, actually.

Making a movie with all female protagonists almost feels like a political statement today. Was that something that specifically drew you to this?

Garland: I really just want to dodge that question.

Really?

Garland: Yeah. The answer that I’m saying – which I’ve said before, so I apologize for it, but I’m in a position where this is the answer that I have – is that the previous film that Oscar and I worked on together [Ex Machina] had within it a very conscious set of deliberate arguments which related to gender and objectification. As well as other stuff about sentience and AI and all of that kind of thing. And what interested me about this project was the absence of an argument. So if I now talk about that, I dismantle the absence of the argument. So I’d just like to leave it at that.

Understood. You wrote this long before the Times Up and Me Too movements came to light, and I certainly don’t want you to explain the ending of your movie, but there’s some symbolism and imagery at the end that could be interpreted as being aligned with those causes. Does the film feel even more relevant now than when you wrote it, considering what’s going on culturally?

Garland: No, it doesn’t. I can’t lay claim to that. I wouldn’t want to. For me, it was a film, internally – by the way, let me just say, any time you present a narrative, in a book or a film or whatever the fuck it is, what is really happening is that fifty percent of the narrative is not provided by you. It’s provided by the subjective nature of the person receiving the narrative. So they fill in gaps, they provide stuff, they create agendas, whatever it happens to be. That is not problematic to me, that is just in the nature of the job. Right? For me, personally – so it doesn’t have to be for you – in as much as it is about something, which it is, to me, it is about the nature of self-destruction. It was about an observation I made, which is that everybody appears to be self-destructive. Some people are very obviously self-destructive because they’re addicted to heroin or alcohol or they act in a psychotic way or whatever, and they offer their self-destruction to you. Other people are very comfortable in their own skin, and they’ve got a fantastic job and a fantastic life and everything seems to be bulletproof. They feel like they’ve sort of cracked something about life. But then when you get to know them, you discover odd bits of self-destruction, which then become significant bits of self-destruction. It was the universality of it, that even the people who’d cracked it all had not cracked it all. And then I started trying to think –

Isaac: Where does it come from?

Garland: Where does it come from? Why is it that you have a really good marriage and you dismantle it? Why do you have a really good friendship and you dismantle it? Why do you have a really good job and you dismantle it? Whatever it happens to be. And the film essentially presents that question and an answer to that question by inference. To me, that is what it’s about.

*****

Annihilation hits theaters on February 23, 2018.

[brosura]

memento mori (the curious case of the baker on baker st.) pt. 2/4

Word Count: 4737 Rating: T probably Pairings: Prompto Argentum x Ignis Scientia Warnings: minor character death, major character death (VERY temporary), alcohol consumption

“Ignis Scientia, young baker and private investigator’s assistant, has a peculiar gift. With a touch, he can bring the dead back to life.”

AKA the promnis pushing da*sies au no one asked for

quick thanks to @danielkesslers for the last minute quick read to make sure, once again, that i am not being my needlessly confusing little self

[start with part I here] [read part III here] [read part IV here] [fic on ao3]

The facts were these.

Sixty seconds, exactly, after Ignis presses his fingers against Prompto’s forehead, a certain unnamed Funeral Director with a pair of sticky fingers dies of a heart attack in the middle of sorting his haul at sixty-two years, eight months and five days.

Of course, Ignis couldn’t have known that he’d traded sticky fingers for Prompto, in the grand scheme of things, so the first thing that jumps into his head once he’s finished carefully helping Prompto back into the coffin and shutting the lid, the first terrifying thought he has is “Gladio!”

Gladio just blinks in mild confusion at Ignis, who - from his perspective - has just thrown open the door for no apparent reason. He blinks again as Ignis sighs, relieved that - from his perspective - he hadn’t accidentally made Iris an only child. Well, less than accidentally. “You ok, Ignis?”

“Y-yes, yes of course,” Ignis says, straightening himself out the best he can in preparation for this unexpected lie. “He, ah, he didn’t see who killed him. But he was strangled with a plastic bag, I don’t know if that helps.”

“Damn,” Gladio hisses. He’s not as visibly upset as he usually is when one of their dead turns out to be a dead end, so to speak, but Ignis can guess that’s for his sake. “I was really hoping for a lead on this one. Well, thanks again, Ignis. You want me to drive you back to the bakery?”

“Thank you, but I’d, ah,” Ignis swallows. He was never good at lying, but luckily he’d been overwhelmed enough before that Gladio will probably attribute this to emotion. “I’d like to attend his funeral, I think.”

Gladio gives him a look that he recognizes as pity for a brief moment, then he just nods. “‘Course. You do what you need to do. Want me to keep you updated?”

“That would be nice,” he says before he can realize that that is most definitely a mistake, that he has just created a situation where he would have to continue lying about the fact that Prompto is very much alive.

“Alright, then.” Gladio pats him on the shoulder. Had Prompto actually been dead, he supposes he would have found this comforting. “See you later.”

“Very well.” Ignis manages to say with a stiff nod as Gladio steps around him to leave the funeral home.

He waits awkwardly by the window until Gladio leaves, then rushes back inside the room where he’d left Prompto only to find the coffin gone.

It’s a mess of an affair, tailing the hearse behind a strangely sparse funeral procession, then waiting awkwardly amongst the mourners (a few genuine, namely an old man and a tall girl with short blonde curls who looked too forlorn to be lying, and a few who were clearly journalists) until the crowd had dispersed enough that he felt comfortable enacting the second part of his poorly developed plan.

Which, to put it casually, involved property damage.

It isn’t until he’s squirreled Prompto safely away from the coffin in the grave and the quickly-concocted distraction that was the burning car of the groundskeepers that his heart starts to calm itself.

It doesn’t have long, though, because he scarcely has time to mention that they should ditch Prompto’s suit from the wake before he’s pulling the thing off.

“Ah,” Ignis stutters. “Er-”

“Oh man!” Prompto interrupts, craning his neck to get a good look at the suit jacket he’s pulling off a shoulder. “Is this my suit from high school prom? I was almost buried in this? How embarrassing!”

“Well, I think you look lovely,” Ignis says offhandedly before he can think about it. It’s enough to make the both of them freeze, and Ignis finds it suddenly much more difficult to meet his eyes.

“Right, um, well,” Prompto starts. He clears his throat. “Don’t suppose you brought a change of pants?”

“Unfortunately, no. To be fair, I didn’t exactly plan to exhume a corpse today.”

“Well, I guess we can’t plan for everything,” Prompto says, and continues the task of undressing himself. He’s on the third button of his dress shirt when he pauses, blinking at Ignis. “No offense, dude, but you watching me is kind of weird.”

“A-ah, right of course, I’ll-” Ignis swivels himself around in lieu of an end to that statement. He clears his throat to drown out the soft sounds of Prompto working at his clothes. “So, ah, high school prom. Who was your lucky partner?”

“Er, no one. Well, someone. But it turned out to be a prank.” Ignis frowns, but he doesn’t have time to dwell on that troubling information before Prompto asks, “I know you probably don’t know what they look like, but were my parents at the funeral?”

“I’m not sure,” Ignis admits with regret. He honestly hadn’t been focusing so much on the guests, he was rather more concerned with the fact that Prompto may very well have been buried alive if he hadn’t been quick on his feet (and good at starting fires).

“Guess it’s too much to hope for,” Prompto sighs and there’s the shuffling of clothes.

Then Prompto appears from his periphery, clothed only in the black slacks and a thin, white shirt. He looks smaller without the trappings of a suit, more human with the way his hair is mussed from undressing. He also looks cold, arms crossed over his chest in clear discomfort.

“Ah, it’s rather chilly,” Ignis comments casually as he shrugs off his own simple gray cardigan, tossing it to Prompto, who catches it with a surprised look on his face. “You can borrow that. At least, until we can find you more suitable clothes.”

“O-oh, ok,” Prompto stutters, but he’s carefully pulling on the cardigan anyway. It’s too big for him, barely fits at the shoulders and the sleeves go past his wrists, but he looks more comfortable. Definitely warmer, if the flush on his neck is any indication. “This is fine.”

“So,” Ignis starts, eager to change the subject. “Consider yourself a free man. Now, what do you want to do?”

Prompto’s grin is so bright it rivals the sun.

“Y’know,” Prompto says around a mouthful of a cheeseburger. 

He’s in the passenger seat of Ignis’ car, which they had picked up along with a change of clothes on the way to the Cheesy Shack. 

It’s a combination of ridiculous and endearing, the sight of him curled up around a bag of junk food in a pair of too-big sweatpants and a loose tank top, still wearing that loose-fitting cardigan. Dark sunglasses obscure his eyes. He was a dead man, after all. Can’t give the poor teen working the drive-through window a scare. 

“Being dead really makes you stop and appreciate the value of junk food. Like, when I was alive? It was always ‘don’t eat the cheeseburger, Prompto’ or ‘that’s too much food, Prompto.’ But then I didn’t even make it to twenty-two! Some dude strangled me to death on a cruise ship!” He winces. “Too soon?”

“You’re the one who died,” Ignis offers, sipping at his own ‘Mocha Jivin’” milkshake which he held one gloved hand, the other draped over the steering wheel as they make their way slowly to Noctis’ building. The gloves, naturally, being a precaution. He’s never losing someone to carelessness ever again. And Prompto seemed…averse to wearing sleeves. “I’d say you get the final word on whether or not it’s too soon to discuss the circumstances of your death.”

“Well, I say it’s not too soon,” Prompto says. “Weird to be on eggshells about it, especially since you’re the one who brought me back. Like you literally saw my dead body, gave me a little poke and boop! Here I am. How do you do that, by the way?”

“Truthfully, I don’t know,” he admits. It’s not a lie. For all he knows about his powers, there’s a garbage bin full of dead plants and things he doesn’t. “It’s, ah, not a thing I care to dwell on.”

“Oh,” Prompto tilts his head. “Too soon?”

Ignis snorts as he pulls into the driveway of Noct’s apartment building, sending a quick text for him to open the garage. “Something like that.”

“Well, I’ll be sure to walk on eggshells, then.” Prompto gives him a grin. “Anyway, not like me to look a gift horse in the mouth, or whatever.” He switches to a southern drawl midway and seems to surprise himself. “Er, sorry, old habit.”

“Nothing to apologize for,” Ignis says with a raised eyebrow and Prompto just shrugs in response. “It’d be good of you to look the gift horse in the mouth just enough to avoid touching me, though.”

“Oh, right! Bummer,” Prompto blurts, then flushes in his seat. “A-any other rules I gotta worry about?”

“Nothing out of the ordinary, just what’s common sense for being raised from the dead.”

“Right! No appearing on the porches of my loved ones, no introducing myself by name. Got it!”

“There you are. You’re a natural,” Ignis says with a fond smile.

Prompto gives him a small one in return and it’s a short, quiet moment. But it’s the first one they have where they’re not frantically catching up on lost time or feeling like they’re living in a world made of frozen glass that’s liable to shatter at any moment.

It’s the first moment they have to just be in each other’s presence.

“I really missed you,” Ignis admits, because it feels right and because he thought he might never get the chance, the privilege to say it.

“Me, too,” Prompto says, and they settle into a short but comfortable silence.

If Ignis was an ordinary and average young man, this might have been the sort of scene that ended in a kiss, tentative and shy. But instead, they can only look at each other, read the warmth and longing in their matching small smiles, and imagine.

Then they jump at the sound of knuckles rapping gently against the passenger side window.

“Garage is open,” Noctis drawls, groggy, when Ignis rolls the window down. Ignis knows Noctis well enough that he’s not surprised he’s in pajamas. In fact, he’d anticipated it, and made a quick call ahead to make sure Noctis was awake from his afternoon nap. He also knows Noctis well enough that he can see the recognition in his eyes the moment after his grogginess subsides and he notices Prompto in the passenger’s seat. “Oh shit, you’re-”

“I-I-I’m,” Prompto stutters, eyes wide with panic. “I mean, er, my name is. Pronto? Aurum?”

“Prompto.” Ignis can’t help but laugh. “It’s alright, he knows about me. He’s a friend.”

“Oh, thank god,” he wheezes. “I know we just established the ground rules but I wasn’t like, ready.”

“Well, you did great,” Noctis reassures, rubbing at his eyes. “I’m Noctis.”

“I’m Prompto!” he says with a cheerful grin. “Y’know, like the dead guy.”

“Pretty common name, huh,” Noctis says with a lazy smirk of his own. Then he blinks at the bags in Prompto’s lap. “One of those for me?”

“Please, give me some credit,” Ignis answers for Prompto. It seemed the people he cared about the most all had a similar taste in junk food. “Two of them are for you. Mind if we come in?”

“Yeah,” Noctis says with a yawn. “Yeah, I’ll meet you at the elevator.”

The facts were these.

Noctis Lucis Caelum, twenty-one years old, is indisputably Ignis’ closest friend.

He’s proudly guarded this position for nearly ten years, and for ten years, he has been one of the most grounding presences in Ignis’ life. In fact, Ignis had only managed to start accepting his powers as part of himself due to Noct’s intervention.

He’d been content to isolate himself completely until Noctis - lonely and eager to befriend someone who was so hesitant to befriend anyone at all, since so many of their peers wanted his attention for the opportunities his charmed life brought - had wormed his way into Ignis’ very small circle of trust and convinced him that maybe his curse didn’t have to be such a curse. That he could take some of the power back with understanding until it became a mundane and inconvenient thing on most days and a source of fear and anxiety on only some days. Noctis had made for a very good lab assistant and then, over time, a very good friend.

They’d been an odd pair, to be sure - the shy heir and the bookish nobody - but they’d been just that: a pair, a set of friends with a relationship built on mutual and often unconditional trust and support.

But he couldn’t ask Noctis for his unconditional support this time. Noctis knew how his powers worked, after all. Knew what keeping a human alive past the sixty seconds meant.

So he starts to get nervous in the elevator as Noctis, who seems to have woken up a bit more in the time it had taken for Ignis to park the car, gets a knowing look on his face as he gives Prompto a cursory once-over.

He doesn’t say anything other than standard small talk until they’re in the apartment, though.

Then he opens with, “Hey Prompto, you shower yet?” 

Diplomatic, subtle, speaking on the level of the audience. He’d learned well from boarding school.

“Uh, no?” Prompto tilts his head, then sniffs himself. “Oh man, no I have not. They sure went heavy on the cologne.”

“You can use mine,” he offers, opening the door to his bedroom preemptively. Diplomatic, subtle, hinting at no ulterior motives. He’d learned very well from boarding school. “Right knob is water level, left knob is temperature. Towels are on top of the sink. Also, you can borrow a change of clothes from my closet. We’re closer in size, I think.”

“Are you sure?” Prompto hesitates at the doorway, but he seems eager at the prospect now that he’s smelled himself.

“Totally,” Noctis shrugs. “Just don’t touch the suits. I go to work in those.”

“Trust me, you could not make me get back in a suit after today,” Prompto starts, but it gets harder and harder to hear him as he retreats into Noct’s room.

The next few moments are spent treading on eggshells. Noctis gives him a tired smile as he pours them both coffee in complete silence and it’s not until they can hear the shower running that he finally speaks.

“So,” he starts, taking a seat across from Ignis, who’s slouched at the kitchen table. He slides him a mug of coffee that Ignis gratefully accepts. “Do you know who it is?”

“I haven’t the faintest,” Ignis says with a shuddering sigh, feeling the weight of the death he’d caused finally setting in. Noct’s expression remains neutral, but Ignis can tell he’s carefully reading Ignis’ expression. He’d feel judged, but he deserves this. At the very least, he’s relieved to finally tell someone. “It isn’t Gladio, at least. And I haven’t had much time to dwell on it, either. It was, ah, I wasn’t at my finest. It’s been a long day.”

Noctis studies him for a moment, then his brows furrow in a combination of concern and pity. 

“Oh yeah,” he says, voice gentle. “He’s that Prompto, right?”

“The Lonely Tourist, yes.”

“No, I mean, he’s that Prompto,” Noctis gives him a meaningful look. “The one you used to talk about in boarding school.”

“A-ah, yes.”

If it were up to Ignis, he’d happily trade his dead-raising for the ability to go back in time. He’d have less metaphorical blood on his hands, to be sure. Mainly, though, he wouldn’t have to deal with the look Noctis is giving him right now, in this moment, if he could just tell his child self to stop talking about Prompto with such frequency and fervor to his new and very nosy friend.

“Hmm,” Noctis hums, with a sly look on his face. “I can see you’re still invested.”

Ignis crosses his arms. This isn’t good, he’s already on the defensive. His debate professor would be very disappointed. “And what are you suggesting?”

“Nothing. Just, think I get it now,” Noctis says, but his smirk widens. “He’s cute. Energetic. Good for a downer like you.”

“That’s awfully rude.” He snorts. “And to think, I spent your twenty-first birthday gallivanting about town, witnessing things that should not be repeated, only to be called a downer.”

“Hey, don’t make me pull a gag order on you,” Noctis says without any vitriol. Then he switches abruptly back to that gentle tone when he continues with, “So, Prompto. He’s up now, and for the long run I’m guessing. What do you need me to do?”

“For now, could he stay here?” Ignis says, fiddling with the mug in his hands. He feels guilty involving Noctis in this, but he doesn’t see there being any other option. “Gladio might come by my flat later and he knows what Prompto looks like. And I, ah, I need to focus.”

“Got it,” Noctis says with an adamant little nod that lets Ignis know he can trust him with this. “Want me to bring him by the bakery later?”

“It’s up to you.”

“Hm, I guess that depends on if I get a free tart.”

“Two free tarts,” Ignis says with a smirk. “For your troubles.”

Noctis gives him another of those sly smiles. “I’ll wait for the all-clear, then. And I’m gonna eat this cheeseburger.”

And they’re off the eggshells the moment Noctis starts stuffing his face with the thing.

Ignis has seen death, has seen the many forms it takes but he’ll never quite overcome the horror that was watching Noctis eat a cheeseburger.

At any rate, their conversation treads back onto their more frequented avenues by the time Prompto steps out in a pair of black sweatpants and a yellow shirt with a moogle riding a chocobo printed to the front. It’s quite the look to find charming, but that’s all Ignis can think, all he can focus on as Prompto dries at his ears with the towel draped around his shoulders, making some comment about how nice hot water was.

“Yeah, hot water’s great!” Noctis says, loudly in an effort to snap Ignis out of the daydream he’d been spiraling into. What did he do to deserve a friend like Noctis.

“Y-yes,” Ignis says, clearing his throat. “Right, er, Prompto. You’ll be staying with Noctis for the time being. I have to get back to work, but will you be alright?”

“Yeah, I can manage,” Prompto says with a grin, but it seems tight and tense.

He’s worried, for a moment, that Prompto will be uncomfortable with Noctis. But then Prompto takes one long look at Noct’s entertainment center and heaves a delighted sob.

“Holy shit, you have every console imaginable!” he cries, hovering near the display, his body trembling in tangible excitement. “Is that the Swap? I’ve been saving up for that for ages!”

“That’s the Swap,” Noctis practically purrs, he’s clearly very proud of his set-up. “One of the perks of knowing a guy who knows a guy.” Prompto gives him a look that’s such open want and excitement that Ignis can see the moment it rubs off onto Noctis, who looks very much like the boy he’d met in boarding school when he continues with, “Want to play?”

“Yeah! Hell yeah!”

“I’ll leave you to it, then,” Ignis tries to say, but it’s in vain, because both Prompto and Noctis are already ignoring him in favor of babbling over the contraption.

Noctis doesn’t even walk him to the door, simply gives him a half-wave.

Now, what did he do to deserve a friend like Noctis.

All things considered, he’s had a very productive day.

Despite having the bakery closed for the majority of its open hours, he’s managed to sell the more delicate pastries off and has Noct’s tarts set aside and his next batch primed for the ovens tomorrow by the time Gladio comes through the door around closing, wordlessly flipping the sign in the window to closed.

He’s got a bottle of liquor in his hand and Ignis doesn’t know whether to be relieved or terrified. Gladio, from what Ignis has experienced, is quite the drinker.

“Hey, Iggy,” Gladio greets, gentler than usual. “How’s it going?”

“Better,” he admits, because at least he doesn’t have to lie about that. He’s still anxious about who died in Prompto’s place, and he’s still nervous about what the future holds for them both, but he’s better. He’s never been better.

“That’s good, wanna have a couple of drinks?”

Ignis merely nods.

His acting is, to put it delicately, shit. One unfortunate school play that Noctis has on VHS recording for collateral is testament enough to that. But he has a somber expression most days, so at least silence can play to his benefit.

Gladio steps comfortably into the kitchen, pulling out a set of cups as Ignis washes his hands and subtly texts Noctis that he should stay away from the bakery. Gladio pours a clear brown liquid into a set of glasses in what he probably imagines is a somber silence for the dead, and not the moment of fear and anxiety that it actually is for Ignis. They take their first drinks in the same silence, and Ignis feels himself relaxing ever so slightly as the liquor burns its way to his gut.

He’s not usually one to drink, but he finds himself glad he’s doing so when Gladio offhandedly says, “Heard that that mean old funeral director croaked this afternoon. Weird coincidence, huh?”

But Ignis doesn’t hear anything after “that mean old funeral director croaked this afternoon” because he’s coughing up his liquor. For a brief, terrifying moment as he hacks up half a lung and about a shot of whiskey, he thinks that Gladio’s guessed his game. That bringing up the funeral director was an accusation and not small talk.

He’s relieved to find that Gladio seems to only think that he’s coughing because of the liquor, though, and that he doesn’t seem to have that calculating look on as he pats Ignis’ back. “Sorry. Still a sore subject?”

“Not, ah,” he chokes on the sting of the whiskey as it makes its way back up his throat. “Not particularly.”

“That’s good,” Gladio says. Then he switches into that tone that he uses on a victim Ignis has just raised, and Ignis feels his anxiety raise in turn when Gladio continues with, “‘Cause I was hoping to hear more about him, that Prompto guy.”

“I’m afraid-,” Ignis swallows. Yes, he is afraid. “I’m afraid I don’t know how much I can say. It’s been years since I’d seen him last, and we were only children then.”

“You sure?” Gladio prods. “Even a little detail works. ‘Cause I could really use anything at this point.”

Ignis could tell him all the things he’s learned about Prompto in their short time together, all the things that came rushing out when they’d walked to Ignis’ apartment.

He could tell Gladio that Prompto’s persevered through what Ignis can only perceive as a lonely childhood, that he’s bright and cheerful and yet talks about himself as if he deserves the scant few friends and lack of parental attention he regularly alludes to, that he loves taking photos and he’s eager to travel again, in spite of being killed for it the once. That he looks very charming in a pair of sweats and a ridiculous t-shirt.

But none of this would be helpful, and all of this would be incriminating, so he says, “I really can’t say.”

Gladio sighs in disappointment, and it’s heavy and genuine enough that even while Ignis is skirting the edge of drunkenness, he can tell that Gladio’s only hope tonight was to squeeze some detail about Prompto’s life and death out of him. He lets himself relax and take another drink of the whiskey.

“Man, with how beat up you were about him, figured you might have been close or something,” Gladio mumbles. “I mean, you were real beat up. And you recognized him on sight...”

It’s just a series of observations, a habit Ignis is accustomed to. Gladio is a private detective, but he’s no spy, so Ignis has sat quietly as Gladio mumbled his way through a case on more than one occasion. If he cared more, he could jot down notes and steal Gladio’s cases right from under him. But he’s a baker by practice, a consultant by necessity. And he couldn’t hurt Iris’ feeling’s like that.

What he’s not anticipating is for Gladio’s mumbling to trail off until there’s a smirk on his lips and Ignis finds himself nervous in a new set of ways. “So, what was he? First crush?”

“I-I’m not sure what you’re-” Ignis sputters, but he’s not doing a fine job of denying it. And gods, he wishes he wasn’t such an easy read, because Gladio’s smirk is growing more insufferable by the second.

“Knew it,” he teases, and tips back another sip of the whiskey. “Trying to picture you as a kid with a crush, but it’s hard. You’re so stuffy sometimes.”

“We were all young once,” Ignis says, simply. “Though you’d be right to assume I was rather… stuffy as a child as well. Prompto managed to see through that, though. He is, er, he was a very kind and bright boy.”

“Sounds like a good guy.” Gladio takes another sip of the whiskey, but he’s back to that somber tone when he sets it down. “Kind of strange, though, you know? When you’re a kid, there are all these people that mean so much to you at one moment that completely leave your life in the next, and you have no idea why. You can only hope you’ll remember them in a few years, and that they’re remembering you, too.”

“Isn’t that just what it’s like to have people you care about?” Ignis says quietly as he fills up their cups.

“Huh,” Gladio grunts. “Guess that’s just what it’s like.”

They both have someone of their own in mind as they take a long drink from their glasses.

The facts are these.

Ignis Scientia - twenty-two years, six months, three weeks and four days old, full-time baker, part-time private investigator’s assistant and responsible party to a revival/murder - is much, much drunker than he intended to be.

He and Gladio, despite the premise of their meeting being founded on a complete lie, have been more honest and forthcoming with each other than they’ve ever been, in no small part due to the entire two bottles of alcohol. He’s learned a lot of things about Gladio, like that he’s been taking on so many cases lately because he’s getting more and more anxious about paying for Iris’ college education, that he cooks most of the family dinners, and that he’s very, very good at eating pie with nothing but his bare hands. Or, at least, much better at eating pie with his bare hands than Ignis is.

Either way, they’re both two hands deep in a pie each, a predicament that explains why Ignis doesn’t receive a critical text message that might have prepared him for what happens next.

What happens next being Prompto himself kicking the door open - it was such a small town that Ignis rarely locked it - tailed by a very anxious Noctis.

They’re both clearly in pajamas and it would be ridiculous if it weren’t for the fact that Prompto is shaking, eyes shining with moisture as he rounds on Ignis.

“You knew! That’s what the beeping was!” Prompto says. He might be shouting, he looks upset enough to be shouting and that’s definitely worrying, but at the moment Ignis’ ears feel like they’re stuffed with cotton, and all he can focus on is the fact that Prompto’s still wearing his old gray cardigan. “Who was it?!”

“Sorry,” Noctis says, looking guilty. His eyes dart between Prompto and Ignis with a nervous energy. “I thought you told him how your powers worked.”

“Don’t apologize, Noct,” Prompto barks over his shoulder, then returns to poking a finger at Ignis’ chest. “You’re the one who needs to apologize! So, who was it?! Who died for me?!”

Ignis doesn’t get a chance to answer, though, because beside him Gladio is making a confused grumble as he squints at Prompto.

“Yeah, Ignis?” he grates out, hands still coated in the purple filling of a blueberry pie as he brings one to rub at his forehead. “Is that our fucking victim?”

Ignis Scientia - twenty-two years, six months, three weeks and four days old, full-time baker, part-time private investigator’s assistant and known responsible party to a revival/murder - wishes he could drink more.

Ohh, W-wOOPS? - Ignis

next time: four rowdy boys solve a murder

[yoolee]

About Lee

@cavern-of-bells made a FUN LIST OF THINGS so I answered them.

1. What kind of food can’t you stand?:  I fervently avoid all food that squelches – like grapes and ‘gelatinous snow fungus’ (that is a google-translated name for a mushroom in a soup my roomie from China made me once – aside from that ingredient, it was interesting). I’ve never, not once in my life, eaten Jello. 

2. If you could choose one minor inconvenience to never have to deal with again, what would you pick?:  Smoke alarm chirping. I could also happily do without pharmaceutical ads, which I think should be illegal, and election campaign ads.

3. Have you got any useless talents?:  AHAHAHA. I can sing the chipmunk Christmas song and say the alphabet backwards? I’m also hypermobile—did a stint in the local circus as a contortionist in high school. (non-animal circus – just acrobatic acts)

4. If you could be really really good at one thing, what would it be?:  Making people smile.

5. Name a few people you think are extremely good-looking: Mila Kunis, Barbara Palvin, Wendell Lissimore, Chris Evans, Zendaya Coleman, Natalie Portma, Godfrey Gao

6. What was your favorite way to pass the time as a kid?:  READING (/daydreaming about book worlds) but also figure skating while we could still afford it. It was as close to flying as I could get! 

7. What is something you’re proud of?:  When I was in my MBA program, my 59 classmates voted me ‘Most Likely to Change the World’. It’s framed next to my diplomas. Though, to be fair, it also sort of haunts me because I feel like I’m not living up to it. 

8. What’s one character flaw in people that you just can’t tolerate?:  I despise being patronized. Being ignorant and refusing to admit it in the face of facts.

9. Do you consider yourself to be more of a leader or a follower?:  Leader -  not a good one, but, I’m not a follower.

10. What kind of student are/were you?:  A really lazy, procrastinating one who still got A’s/B’s. I was a really good test taker.

11. Butterfly effect question! Has there ever been a seemingly minor decision you’ve made (at the time) that ended up having a profound influence on your life?:  Reading in class in 7th grade science. My teacher made a deal with me – if I could pass the pre-quiz at the start of every week, he’d let me read instead of pay attention, but he would get to pick the book. He introduced me to Michael Crichton and Anne McCaffery, which were my first forays into sci-fi, and my involvement in that has rippled through most of my major friend groups since. Alternately, attending a training at my first career job, which introduced me to the career I now have.

12. Name your most irrational fear/aversion: Ants. I hate ants. Where there’s one, there’s hundreds, and there’s nowhere I can go that they can’t get too, and they’re small enough to crawl in your nose and stuff. I sat in a fire ant hill as a kid, which was strike one. Strike two was moving into a house that had been abandoned for seven months when I was in third grade – turned on the tub water and it came out black there were so many ants in the pipes, and they just POURED into the tub and swarmed up the sides oh god it was like a horror movie. Other than that, most of my fears are pretty average – failure, my family being hurt, etc.

13. Are there any fictional characters you find especially relatable?:  I am self-centered enough to find myself in most characters – there’s usually one or two aspects that line up. Unless they are Lawful Good then I’m like…uuuugh. Nope, nothing there.

14. If you drink, what kind of drunk are you? Alternatively, what sort of person are you at parties?:  I am a giggly, ballet-dancing drunk. I get hyper paranoid about my spatial issues so I literally go into ballet-mode because the movements are naturally slower and more flowy. I am also pretty clingy drunk. I like to snuggle, which is funny because sober me is not big on touching or being touched. Not to overanalyze, but I think being drunk takes away the fear of that. At parties I am that awkward wall-hovering introvert who likes to find an extrovert and make them talk while I nod and wait to GTFO. I spent the entirety of my bro’s wedding reception babysitting a 4 and 5 year old because it was so much less stressful than making small talk (simultaneously playing Go Fish AND Who’s Who Monster Edition LIKE A CHAMP)

15. Do you fall in love easily? Or does it usually take a long time for you to trust someone?:  AHAHAHAHA no. I genuinely don’t think I’ve ever honestly been in love – just more fond of one person than most. Invariably, I find I prefer my own company to theirs after a time.

16. Would you rather have one close friend or 100 casual friends?:  This is a really hard one. 100 casual friends means more people to do stuff with, but, I treasure my close friends. I don’t know. Pass!

17. Do you consider yourself to be more of a slob or a neat-freak?:  I. AM. SUCH. A. SLOB. *sobs* My room should have a hazard sign.

18. Describe a place (imaginary or real) that you would find incredibly cozy: I am not feeling creative – a bedroom that cleans itself, with lots of soft, fuzzy blanket piles and pillows, with tea services (including scones!) and lots of bookshelves. A view of a duck pond would be appreciated too lololol. 

19. Do you have kids? If not, do you want them someday?: I don’t have kids. I truly treasure spending time with the kids in my family, and I work part-time as a princess/elf/storyteller at the local zoo – I like kids, but, I am a really selfish and self-centered person, and I move on to new things—including people—with serious regularity. I don’t think I would be a good parent at all. I wish I could be, but, knowing my flaws, it would be really irresponsible to have kids.

20. What was your favorite book as a child?  Elementary school – it was a book about a little black cat who went to boarding school, and there was a yellow spotted cat with a fire truck. Don’t remember the name. I also love the Wizard of Oz books (SO DARK). As a middle schooler – The Blue Sword by Robin McKinley. I needed a Mary Sue at that point in my life. Also loved the Dragonsinger series by Anne McCaffery, and everything by Mercedes Lackey and Tamora Pierce. In high school…The Things They Carried, I suppose. Now, probably Fuyumi Ono’s Twelve Kingdom’s series. It’s YA, but, the characters are so flawed, and so redeemed, I find it really interesting.

21. Name one thing you just don’t get what all the hype is about: Disney World  

22. Name one thing that you think is tragically underrated: The Emperor’s New Groove is the best Disney movie ever. ALSO, Mary Sues. Middle School me needed Mary Sues. I think most do. Go easy on ‘em.

23. If you had to be glued to a person for a month, real or fictional (who you have never met), who would you choose?: UM. HM. Someone who doesn’t need to shower to smell clean? XD Lady Luck, maybe. It would be fascinating to watch – both good and bad luck – unfold all around.

24. What’s something you’d like the chance to do someday?: This feels super arrogant – but I’d like to be a good enough author to have a book published and do a book signing. With people who actually come to get the book signed!

25. Do you typically speak your mind when you have a controversial opinion? Or do generally prefer to not rock the boat?: I like to work behind the scenes. Usually I write like a multi-page rebuttal with linked references, but I rarely post it. Sometimes I do. I call my senators roughly weekly, for what that’s worth, but public discourse is not my thing.

26. What’s the dumbest fad you’ve been caught up in?: ….uuuum. Hmm. Butterfly clips, maybe? But then, it was the 90s and I was eleven, so. 

27. What’s something you thought was cool as a kid/adolescent, but now cringe at yourself for?:  I DON’T CRINGE AT MYSELF but Dragonball Z. XD I forgive my kid/adolescent self for a lot, okay.

28. What’s a trait you consider to be very admirable?: The willingness to publically, and politely, engage in debate in service of someone else. Genuine ability to interact with other people in a way that leaves them feeling better for having interacted with you.

29. Is there a particular kind of item people always tend to give you as gifts? (For instance, people always get you things with ducks on them because you like ducks, etc.): LITERALLY, DUCKS. I love ducks. People give me ceramic ducks all the time. Also socks, because my grandma collected fancy decorative perfume bottles and one Christmas my mom and I went to like 10 stores looking for one she didn’t have and I pitched a FIT saying when I was older I was going to collect socks because you always need more, and there’s no way people would run out of options for me. My family thought this was hilarious and took me up on it. My grandpa shipped me socks from the dollar store once a month while I was in college.

30. Do you speak multiple languages? Which ones?: I wish I did! I can cuss in quite a few, and I know some conversational Irish from studying abroad there and studying it. 

31. Would you rather live in the big city or the countryside?: Having lived in both – the big city. It’s too easy to self-isolate in the countryside, and for me, personally, that’s fairly unhealthy. Countryside is definitely prettier and more peaceful, just, not for me.

32. Has there ever been something you were certain you’d hate, but ended up loving?: Literally all the time. Like, Mitsunari in SLBP for example!

33. Do you mind being the center of attention, or do you prefer the spotlight to be on someone else?: Ahahahaha give me all of the attention please /sigh

34. Favorite holiday?: Halloweeeeen. But I also really like Diwali even if I feel a little bit like I am trespassing/being a tourist. It’s just beautiful.

35. Are you a more go-with-the-flow type of person, or do you need to have things planned meticulously?: “PLANNED” AHAHAHA WHAT IS THAT WORD IDK. I am so last-minute and haphazard it’s absurd.

36. Is there something you loved so much you wish you could forget it and experience it all over again? (A tv show, book, series–anything.) : The pleasure of reading books in middle school. Those ‘first’ exposures, without expectation or standards. EVERYTHING was magical and exciting, and I devoured it all. Alternately, college. 

37. What hobbies do you have?: UM. I dress up as a princess/superhero and visit kids in the hospital which is…weird, I know. I get paid to do it at the zoo, and some parents reached out to them and asked if we could visit and then it became a thing. Less so now that I’m in a new city. Martial arts (Hapkido, Judo, Taekwondo), ballet, baking with zucchini, photoshopping, reading, writing SLBP fanfiction, playing otome games…XD

38. If you could have a superpower, but it was only mildly useful, what ability would you want to have?: THE ABILITY TO FEEL WELL-RESTED AT ANY TIME. Or good luck, but I’d argue that would be more than mildly useful. Ability to find the right thing to say to cheer someone up!

39. Something people are always surprised to learn about you: Online folks are usually surprised to learn I’m old? Friends IRL are usually surprised I’m Chaotic Evil (I won’t say I’m two-faced, I’ll say I try really hard to be nice, and I act like it well, but it is an act – I don’t genuinely possess any empathy to speak of. I will listen to you, but I probably don’t actually care, I just want to – there is a difference) and work folks are usually pretty surprised at the Chemistry background. FOLLOWERS OF THIS BLOG won’t be surprised but, I friggen love Waffle House. That usually throws people for al oop.

40. Something that took you way too long to figure out: That I’m bi? I was on BC for so long I thought I was ace, so when I finally developed a drive in my late/mid-twenties it was sort of shocking to realize it’s only rarely set to hetero, and like, I still don’t know how to act on that. ALSO for years I had no idea there was a little arrow on your gas gauge to tell you which side the gas pump’s on – comes in super handy in rental cars.

41. Worst injury you’ve had? Physically? Fell out of a tree as a kid and snapped an arm bone in half – one half went on top of the other. Other things have happened that took longer to emotionally recover, but, physically that was the worst probably. Weirdly, I fell off of the roof with no injury, but…idk I’m weirdly durable.

42. Any morbid fascinations?: Snake venom. I could probably write a dissertation. 

43. Describe your sense of humor: I LOVE PUNS. I LOVE THEM SO MUCH. I like ‘smart’ humor (puns are clever) and nerdy humor, but I don’t like mean humor. I also laugh at gallows humor a lot.

44. If you had to be born in another era/place, which would you choose?: Okay this is really hard because I would be useless in most other eras and I would miss indoor plumbing and women’s rights and people not regularly dying around me. I am probably biased by being interested in times with the best myths/stories. Ancient Egypt? Viking Age? Basically any time period in China or Japan because my US-centric world history studies seriously failed me they are a bit of a fascinating mystery. 

45. Something you are irredeemably bad at: LOL this would be a long list. (you said ‘thing’ singular, I am taking that as a friendly suggestion not a mandate) Push-ups (hypermobile elbows, okay). Cleaning. LOGISTICS AND PLANNING OH LORD. Editing my own work. SMALL TALK oh god I am the worst at small talk I even took a class on it trying to get better. Gracefully accepting compliments - how does one do that and not come off as obnoxious ;.;

46. Something that sucked but you’re glad you went through: Most recently, dumping a Really Good Guy. A past me would have just quietly let it fade into oblivion and that would have been worse. I think? 

47. Would you rather have a really godawful ugly tattoo in a place that is only slightly inconvenient to conceal with clothing (upper arm, thigh, etc.), or the coolest, most beautiful tattoo ever in the middle of your face? (Neither tattoo can be removed or concealed with makeup, and the ugly tattoo will deeply offend anyone who sees it.): lololol oh my gosh. I don’t like offending people. So. I guess pretty one on my face.

48. Are you more of an optimist or a pessimist?: Eeeeeeh.I guess optimist, but that’s mostly laziness.

49. What would be the most flattering compliment someone could give you?: That I have made their life better or brighter somehow. 

50. Something you feel people often misunderstand about you: I am simultaneously incredibly confident about things and incredibly craven about people! And that’s hard for people to get sometimes. Like, my writing I am wholly confident of and proud of to the point of arrogance – as a thing. But the moment someone talks to me about it I get petrified because oh god what if I, as a person say or do something that turns them off to the point where they can’t enjoy the writing (the thing).  It’s greatly exacerbated by the internet where I can’t read tone or facial expressions – but I’m still pretty bad about this offline too. Like, I hate even going to Chipotle or Qdoba where there isn’t a big line of people (if there’s a big line of people everything is hustling and bustling and moving along) – I greatly dislike social interactions that lack a script. But, put my project in front of a board of directors or the company president, and I will kick tush and take names. It’s a weird dichotomy, but that’s how I’m wired.

THIS WAS FUN. GOOD QUESTIONS

I TAG YOU, PERSON READING THIS.

[abooklover]

Thoughts on shadow and bone Netflix series. I kinda only thought to do this after I’d watched the first 2 episodes so here is a run down of my thoughts, as a person who’s read the books before, for each episode from episode 3.

EPISODE 3

THE STAG!!! Which I thought was the stag, but then thought they were playing with us and just gonna show a tree branch or something

I love Danielle as Nina

Awwwww, Leigh hugging Alina is pure gold

Kaz and his goat - he literally had it on a lead

Baghra: “she’s quite brutal” (The Apparat) - “where’s the rest of you”, starts hitting her with a cane

“what are you?” seems to be a running theme

“How much of a gap?”

“Hug the goat” - Jesper and his goat

Aghhhh, I can’t wait to see Jesper and Wylan - I swear to god there has to be a season 2

“You have always been my true north, Mal” - kinda cringe but I loved it (I honestly did not care much for any of the characters in the shadow and bone books except for Nikolai but my God am I in love with all of them now)

EPISODE 4

“I leave you a bullet to remember me”, MILO!!! - oh god I love Jesper

Jesper walking away from the goat looking just as devastated as when he has to walk away from a gamble

Unlike most I didn’t like the Darkling in the books and Rule of Wolves only did a little to redeem him for me. But my god I actually see redemption for the Darkling. Ben Barnes and that scene by the fountain thing... I can’t even. He is not evil, he’s just misunderstood🥺🥺

“You and I are going to change the world, Alina”

👐 - ‘LIGHT’

God I love Matthias (Calahan Skogman!!!!)

Teary, face touch, pull in...asdfgh

I’m not gonna be able to watch Matthias die, like I just can’t

Poor Dubrov just tryna take a piss

Matching scars, awwwwww

Genya is absolutely perfect 😍😍

EPISODE 5

OH MY GOD, the Lantsov double eagle - was this always at the start or did I just miss it

Genya and Alina’s friendship is pure - too bad it’s gonna be ruined when Alina find out Genya betrayed her

“I suppose he’s moderately attractive”

I want Jesper and this random stable boy to make out so bad!!!

IT��S HAPPENING! this is not a drill. IT IS HAPPENING!

I’m sorry David fixing his hair is just something he’d never do - he’s barely aware it exists in the books

Are Fedyor and that heartrender (maybe Ivan) a thing???? Or am I just reading into things

Ben Barnes is in love with Alina

What is David’s smirk

Random. But Kaz’s aversion to touching people hasn’t really been showcased. Like I don’t think people you haven’t read the books will get it. Hopefully it’s emphasised more in the later episodes

Oh I actually love Fedyor

I honestly don’t know why Kaz trusted this random dude to help them with their quest - like it’s not something I think he would do

Again random, but I want more Matthias

Alina’s black kefta is 👌

General Kirigan...are you jealous???

OMG!!! Marie is dead, what??

Well I guess I should’ve seen Kaz’s plan with that guy - damn even after reading the books I still miss part of his plans

That make out scene... GOD. I have no words. It was perfect.

Man, people who didn’t read the books would’ve been so surprised by that reveal

What the hell is that portrait - is it weird or is it just me

Jeez Alina you turned on him fast

I want to see more of Kaz’s cane

Inej killed someone - this is only the beginning

Jesper’s at the height of confusion. He’s like what the fuck did someone say to get her to just get in the trunk on the back of their carriage like that? How could we be so lucky? He’s so happy with himself, I can’t.

EPISODE 6

“Poor Nina” - like you care General Kirigan

Dude you’re gonna die - you’re dead, dead, dead

Told you he doesn’t care about Nina

Damn, shirtless Matthias really has me going 👌👌

And.... Matthias is in love with Nina - god that scene was pure gold

“I see you now” 🥺🥺

“It’s not natural for someone to be as stupid as he is tall, and yet there you stand” - Ahhhhhh, I can’t even. This made me so happy

I take back any queries I had about Danielle as Nina, she is perfect 😍

Jesper, dude, put your guns away. You’re meant to not draw attention to yourself.

Darkling and Kaz encounter, ahhhhhhhh

“You are scared that if you laugh at my jokes or answer my questions you might start to think I’m human. Would that be so terrible?”

So I just have to say they did an amazing job of incorporating book quotes into Nina and Matthias’s storyline and I am living for it

Nina and Matthias 🥰🥰 - I am in love

Is that worry for Inej I see Kaz 👀

“He threw a book at me” Jesper says with disgusted confusion. Me tho and damn it was a hardcover so you bet it had to be worth it

Oh poor David is so awkward

Mal is honestly perfect - “You don’t owe me an explanation. I just want to keep you safe”. I didn’t like him in the books but he is so different, in the best way possible.

EPISODE 7

Who the hell is this random woman with young General Kirigan. Did I miss something. What is going on - THE TURNING POINT, right. The creation of the fold.

Does young Darkling with long hair remind you of what Yuri would look like after the obsibaya, or is that just me?

I’m getting sick of this flashback

Wait is Kaz’s cane broken???? Was that not the actual one??? Like the one made by a Fabrikator wouldn’t be able to break right??? Does David make it????

Im lovin this snow in dark hair aesthetic

That must have hurt the ego Kaz

Crow talk. I actually can’t.

Ok so the necklace merged with her skin. Ok.

“Yes. You should now have full access to all of her light. In theory” - oh David

THE GOAT!! Would you look at that Milo is the saviour, helping Mal escape. I think he needs an award and the love of the fandom

I actually love that tent and Alina’s visage even with the collar - aesthetic is on point

Man, THAT LINE!!! - “Fine, make me your villain.”

Ohhh Jesper and his jokes

“NO MOURNERS, NO FUNERALS” - I can’t. I think I’m dead.

EPISODE 8

Jesus, the goat - I’m with you Jesper, Milo advocate all the way

Oh God, I can’t see Matthias die. I just can’t.

“I will keep you warm” (more like melt me from the inside out) then the fucking almost kiss that killed me, interrupted by...wait for it... a rumbling stomach and Nina’s mention of waffles (most perfectly sequenced scene in tv history ever)

Matthias: “Is there meat in this?”. Nina: no but you are a genius, I should try that some time (Nina Zenik is my spirit animal)

This isn’t fair. It hurts. If we get Matthias angry at Nina I don’t think I will be able to take it.

Why is there like lightning in the fold??

Kaz: “He’s a man consumed with vengeance.” Jesper: “See it enough in the mirror do you” I love this in every way possible.

“Why would we destroy the fold. It’s the greatest weapon we’ve got” - I don’t know if you just hadn’t noticed but it’s torn your country in two. Potential war is a problem ya’know

Zoya’s aunt - foreshadowing king of scars

Expansion of the fold!!! I’m actually not sorry he killed that dick of a general though

They used the same skiff as they did when they first went in - the light splayed on the deck

“I don’t have to kill you Darkling, your past will do it for me.”

Awwwww cute little campfire with everyone

I’m sad we didn’t get Kaz stealing anything - dirty hands really needs to earn his name

Zoya shoulda been more coarse

“I need you” - Jesus Kaz we’re really diving into it. Kaz should have been more ruthless too. He’s showing too much weakness for my liking

No, no, no. “Matthias please”

Ok so last Alina voice over was weird

Nichevo’ya!!!

There better be a season 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 or I’m gonna die.