#the narrative is shipping them and I hate it

[catras-breakup-song]

it’s already annoying enough that they still, in 2025, 4.5 years after the fifth season ended, run blogs almost solely dedicated to hating on a cartoon since they can’t find a better hobby, but what really bothers me at this point is how they have to make their superiority complex everyone else’s problem and go out of their way to bully & harass stans over their posts under the guise of “debunking arguments” (which, even if that is true, debates aren’t always inherently invited and dragging someone into them by assuming “existence of post = open discussion” when they aren’t interested may violate a boundary), usually indirectly so that we don’t know and won’t respond to it.

glimmadora shippers (who are catradora antis, nothing wrong with just liking the ship itself!) are definitely the most frequently guilty, thinking of 1-2 blog usernames in particular here, and they largely overlap with the first group in your list — many of them tend to also be lumity fans (again, so am i, i have the owl house showrunner’s art of them as my main blog’s icon; that alone is not the issue) and compare it to catradora because if it’s not perfect fluff then it’s apparently not acceptable to portray in (animated) media. it’s rather ironic because they are so loud about being against toxic behavior + obsession with people minding their own business, but have no problem actively engaging with these things online in order to make sure others know they hold the wrong opinion over pixels + lines on a screen.

the ones that have really surprised me though, are hordak & shadow weaver stans. it’s a cheap excuse to accuse them of ableism* & misogyny & lesbophobia (and trust me, i also hate pointing fingers at baseless bigotry when it doesn’t apply tot the situation), yet abusive characters in this show are clearly fine to enjoy just as long as they’re not catra, which therefore implies… exactly those ideas. they hide behind a façade of caring about ableism via entrapta’s writing** and the end scene of 4x01 when catra holds hordak’s crystal over his head to bribe him, but either they’re very biased and cherrypick who deserves protection from discriminatory beliefs based on a subjective “perfect victim” status in the fandom, or they’re simply weaponizing those criticism arguments in order to silence opposing voices among the discourse regarding catra’s redemption arc getting more attention, since she’s a main character, than the cardboard cutout big-bad villain, who wasn’t supposed to have anywhere near as much development or sympathy given from the beginning. i roll my eyes when they complain about how season five catered to her so much, especially instead of hordak, because the show has literally always been primarily about catradora and the best friends squad by extension; hordak was nothing more than a tool for the narrative. that means you got what you came for, so you can either stay mad or leave ─ i highly suggest the latter for everyone else's sake.

i’ve been collecting receipts of the latter group that you can check through all the various reblogs (it’s not a neat consecutive thread unfortunately, sorry) in the notes here, just because it’s difficult for me to believe those takes are actually real if i can’t prove it to even just myself, lol lmao.

another thing i’d like to mention is that i’ve seen antis mention biphobia coming from she-ra stans a few times now, and as a bisexual activist who is unapologetic about calling that crap out without any respect for the perpetrator, the funny thing is… this is pretty much the only fandom where it hasn’t occurred that much in my experience, let alone to such an unbearable level — mind you, i’ve been here since june 2020 (not on this account, but wherever SPOP existed on the internet). it’s always been much more prevalent in arcane spaces, hell even the owl house with three prominent bisexual characters and only one canon lesbian is filled with far too much erasure & policing regarding our identity. also no one ever cares about bringing up bisexuals unless it’s to hate on us somehow, so i always find a sudden uptick in concern from monos that can be essentially read as a “gotcha” or otherwise supporting detail rather than its own thoughtful discussion to be deceitful and i tend to be quite wary of it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

*ableism in this case comes from catra’s heavy BPD-coding, which i can speak on as i also have it — or at least share most of its symptoms consistently, which has been overall agreed upon by my psychiatrist.

**that’s not to say how entrapta being autistic was handled, especially in 5x02, isn’t problematic, especially considering i’m autistic too and that has rightfully made our community uncomfortable, generally speaking. i just don’t trust authentic critique with genuine love for the character or even basic respect for this piece of media as a whole to come from that crowd specifically.

i'm losing my mind how are there STILL ACTIVE CATRA HATE BLOGS it's been FOUR YEARS how are you still this mad about a female abuse victim!!!!!! how do you STILL not get it!!!!!!!!!!

I have been in enough fandoms to understand that some of the people who stick around the longest are those who act the most scarred after watching the media. It's like stockholme syndrome. Or it's like hating the thing is what gives them drive in the world.

I have also been on the other side of this. I remained a Homestuck blog for a whole four years after the ending made me depressed about Terezi Pyrope, even lasting an additional year and a half after the dogshit epilogues released, through to the demise of Hiveswap and Homestuck^2, before I realised enough was enough and let Adventure Time give me sanctuary again.

But Homestuck had its Gamzee fans who hated the comic and fandom, Adventure Time had its Lemongrab fans who hated the show and fandom, and it seems She-ra has its fair share of antis.

The She-ra antis consist of the following groups, from my observation:

Former fans who got obsessed with some other show and have to bash She-ra because it ain't cool anymore. Usually Owl House fans but can be from anywhere. Their hate is universally connected to propping something else up, and is never done in isolation.

Hordak fans who hate Catra and maybe every other character and crew member and the show. There are a lot of the reverse, Catra fans who hate Hordak, which is part of why this group is so persistent, as a "counter" to this Hordak hate. However, the Catra fans who are Hordak antis MOSTLY do not hate the show (they are just... out of touch with it and generally have bad takes). I've seen one or two extreme cases of Catra apologists accusing Adora, Scorpia, and even Entrapta of abuse, but they were completely alone in their feelings. The Hordak fans who hate Catra tend to also hate Glimmer, Mermista, Adora, Bow, and say that the show is ableist or whatever, but they do not actually harbor much love for Entrapta. Her victimisation is an excuse for their behaviour and they have no understanding of her chaotic character. Do not interact.

Glimmadora fans (the ones who purely seem to exist to make 'Spop Is Abusive' posts). Why the fuck Glimmadora fans hate the show so much, I do not understand. But these are probably the most In-Your-Face of these three groups. While the Hordak fans mentioned above have a lot of similarity to Homestuck Gamzee fans or Adventure Time Lemongrab fans in the weird way they'll hate on the show for doing their blorbo wrong, Glimmadora fans don't have that evidence because they don't really care about Glimmer or Adora. They have absolutely nothing to say about the show, other than that it is Bad. My theory on these Glimmadora fans is that they really liked the Glimmer and Adora ship on a superficial level, and then the show decided to have its Deeper Themes and give Catra and Adora a messy, complicated relationship. There was a lot happening after season 3 where people went "CATRADORA IS REALLY ABUSIVE AND CATRA IS HORRIBLE AND YOU SHOULDNT SHIP HER WITH ANYONE". This period was SO fucking harmful to the fandom that it never recovered, so much work was lost and deleted from AO3. People would say "Glimmadora is a much better ship anyway". But then when season 4 rolled around and, uhh, Glimmer was acting like a little shit all season (for good reason but she really fucked things up with Adora), and Glimmadora crumbled into ash? Well the Glimmadora truthists felt like the show was working against them and that Season 5 was a grand conspiracy to make the Abusive ship Catradora canon!!! The funniest part of this is I sympathise a lot with these feelings. I used to be a Glimmadora truther myself when I watched the show in fall 2021. I was like, "wow, look how nice this ship is. And they go with catradora in the end?? Fucking HOW???". But then seasons 4 and 5 happened and.... yeah, I was disappointed with how Glimmer and Adora's friendship ended up, but I was ENAMORED by the messiness of Catra's character and how raw her and Adora felt about each other even in spite of all the bullshit. I never made excuses about the show being abuse apologising. I analysed it purely in how believable the relationships were and what the intentions of the characters are.

Of these groups, the ones responsible for the most actual SPOP Anti blogs are undoubtedly the Glimmadoras. The only time I've seen something similar, so many antis appearing, was because of Steven Universe ship wars. You have NO IDEA how petty people feel about Lapidot, Amedot, all the dots, all the amethysts. A crew member was chased off the internet over it, or left the internet over the show's own decisions, depending on whether you believe the """screenshots""" that were taken of Zuke's ""private blog""".

[nerdishpursuits]

And this is one of the countless reasons I love chatting about Mafin with @midniteowlet: she's my very own toma a Tierra and grounds me, so I can approach things more rationally.

Upon concluding our debate of the current turn of events on the show, Mafin on the whole and their narrative? I've come to look at things as follows. The show very much reflects society as it is: a sad state of affairs where good people hurt and unsavory characters often prevail. The fact that we want everything good and wholesome to triumph at every turn? Idealistic, not realistic. Not to mention lofty expectations actually prevent one from truly appreciating the show, with all its ups and downs and winding roads. And personally, I'd like to keep enjoying it, without getting dragged down the utopian rabbit-hole.

For the most part, the representation we get is actually well crafted: Mafin feels organic, tried and true, and the chemistry between them is undeniable and thrilling. More so? Their story doesn't feel forced and thus, can be promoted to any viewership without it coming across as preachy and condescending, or having an agenda. If anything, Mafin is by far the best developed, healthiest relationship on the show. I, for one, much prefer the portrayal of good communication, heartfelt romance and overcoming obstacles together than a deluge of r-rated scenes. And honestly? We are being offered a damn good story here, even as it fails to satisfy everyone's hopes and demands (which in all honesty, it never could - at the end of the day, someone will always be disappointed)

I'm also reminded of Marta B. mentioning in a recent interview that the show is not aimed exclusively at the sapphic community. As such, it will not depict or cater to its particular needs. It's part of a larger ensemble and needs to appeal to a broad audience. And, when all is said and done, it actually manages to accomplish more with this kind of storytelling: one that's simpler, one that doesn't try to be pedantic. Ergo, they will not linger and preach to the audience. What they will do instead is allow the characters, their circumstances and actions, to speak for themselves. And they will trust they're doing a good enough job to let people draw their own conclusions. So far, I think they've achieved that: there’s heterosexual people watching the novela who love Mafin and think they’re the best couple on the show, there’s elderly people learning to be more open-minded, everyone loves Damian's character development, everyone hates Santiago and acknowledges he is a despicable lowlife etc. The show is moving the pieces along the board quite deftly and it makes for an interesting, if not always gratifying, game.

As for today's episode? There's no doubt that Marta and Fina only have eyes for each other. They're an established couple who will face anything thrown their way as they always have, as one. No mustachioed men will ever change that. Marta and Fina's narrative will never be whether they desperately adore each other. That they do couldn’t be more obvious. Their story? Ever has it been, and will continue to be, about their fight to attain freedom: freedom to live their love in a society that forbids it.

Therefore, I've reached the point where I'm not worried at all about either Santiago or Pelayo. Based on Pelayo's reaction upon learning Marta is a lesbian? I doubt he'll help Santiago in his attempt to sink Marta's ships. To me he comes across as a calculated businessman, but not a heartless one. He stands to profit more from a partnership with the de la Reina family than throwing Marta to the wolves. He also didn't bat an eye at Santiago's reveal, wasn't surprised or outraged. Which, I'll go out on a limb and say, is telling. He's either gay himself or simply plans on advancing his business / political career by securing a partner that won't demand his attention or affection. The first scenario ensures he remains socially upstanding while the second allows him to live as he pleases. To a man like Pelayo? It's a jackpot either way. Hopefully, the benefits outweigh the costs for Marta as well, should the plot move in that direction. And given all the signs? It's already halfway there.

That being said. It remains to be seen what happens to Santiago. I assume, and hope, his little ploy at denouncing Marta to the Civil Guard will cost him, dearly or otherwise. His own thirst for vengeance pushed him to make the wrong move which is, in my opinion, seeking out Pelayo. And while there's plenty of outraged cries that Marta & Fina don't need another man to save them? Let's not forget it's 1958. The likelihood of neither of them attracting a suitor, fake or otherwise unwelcome, is as doubtful as improbable. The fact they managed to successfully evade them so far? Quite the feat.

As for what awaits? Marta won't go to jail, I think, since that card has already been played. Or who knows? We might be surprised. The fear they need to instill in her requires new heights, in order for Marta to reluctantly accept another cage. Mind you, she's still trapped: as much freedom as she currently wields, Marta remains a woman whose very social status entraps her, singling her out as prime real estate. She's the proverbial golden goose, especially as dictated by the mores of society back then. Marta and Fina's shared dream of freedom remains, for now, a dream. One they've almost had at their fingertips, which makes their current circumstances all the more painful. I will say: it stings that Fina won't be the first to read Marta's journal. Undoubtedly, at some point, she will. After all, that journal is a mirror of Marta's very heart. It lays out her deepest fears, her innermost longings. It chronicles the fiercest battles Marta has had to wage with herself, her losses and triumphs, her meditations and hymns, the anguish and the deliverance of her love for Fina. To have it fall into the wrong hands? A violation of the utmost personal, a desecration of what is deemed sacred and untouchable. The diary symbolizes Marta having a safe space to call her own, one where she was allowed to embrace her true self, one that initiated her journey to freedom, her quest to rid herself of her shackles. Santiago has no honorable bone in his body and his hatred towards women, and Marta in particular, drives him to invade and vandalize her privacy, this blessed sanctuary she got to call her own. Let's see if Pelayo rises to the occasion and proves himself as a noble character. You can never have too many allies. Do I still take issue with how certain things are handled, with the inconsistencies and shoddy character work? Definitely. But I’m also able to simply sit back and enjoy. Let's see where all this goeth, shall we? Hello pain, let's go again.

[valyrfia]

Which ships do you think would become even more toxic if yurified

Charlando is the obvious answer…..the Max and Carlos haunting the narrative of it all…..them thinking the other’s a slut for sleeping with *gasp* their male friends (whether they’ve actually done it or not is redundant)……constantly seeing the other as competition and threat to their own femininity and their position as “best female F1 driver”….hating each other’s guts and yet having a strange camaraderie they can’t share with anything else. All Charlando is perfect enemies to lovers (or enemies AND lovers) fodder but it does become a thousand times better when they’re both girls and you fold all the confusingness of being a woman into it. Charlando are my go to toxic yuri FOREVER. @cherrari just wrote some excellent Charlando yuri, if you’re interested in consulting the tomes.

I also think Carcar would make for excellent toxic yuri as in you’ve got this millennial European woman Carlos who has all these ingrained ideas about beauty and femininity and then you’ve got this Australian gen z woman Oscar who probably wears cargo shorts and her hair in a ponytail with a baseball cap on her days off but is still undeniably feminine. They’re expected to get along because they’re women but they don’t really like each other. Cue the toxic yuri.

Also third is galex just for the true homoerotic teenage friendship canon event.

[justatalkingface]

Himiko’s “thing” for Ochako always felt like it came out of nowhere to me. Like, we’re given reasons and justifications for her love for Izuku, but the Ochako thing felt like it just randomly happened, just because Horikoshi needed something for the two of them to do in the final battle, especially since it seems to have completely overshadowed her original thing for Izuku anyway

Hmm. I hate to disagree but, on Himiko's end at least, the fact it came out of nowhere made perfect sense because, well, it's Himiko. Part of her characterization is 'falling in love' with people more or less at random, and then using that 'love' as justification to hunt them down. (it's pretty clear to me that, among other things, her Quirk makes her look at people and, at some unconscious level, see them as 'food' as much as they are 'people'. No seriously, so much of Himiko is coded as a predator: stalking, mimicking, ambushing; these are all things that a predator will do to successfully hunt their prey. In all honesty, reading her as, like, a half-vampire or something, one that is badly raised and so doesn't properly understand her own motivations, makes so much of her actions make sense, because Himiko is mixing 'hunting' behaviors and desires with 'romantic' ones. Then, between the mechanics of her own Quirk, how feeding, which gave her positive feedback in both being full for once and doing something that is natural to her, turned her into someone else, and just how little understanding she has of herself and her own desires, all these various conflicting impulses eventually evolved into her 'love' and her obsession with being her 'loved one'.) So, Himiko 'loving' Ochako makes sense because she doesn't understand what love actually is, and the way she uses the word is basically a sort of personal slang for a combination of obsession, lust, and hunger. It's not someone genuinely falling in love, it's her predatory behavior locking onto another target, often for shallow reasons about her finding them attractive, so I'm sure as soon as she sees Izuku again, she'll refocus right back onto her other desired food source, and that much makes sense.

(Really though, when you look at her and what drives her seriously there's a fascinating story here, but Hori clearly can't be assed to actually do that in the slightest. Put her in a story that'd spend time on her motivations, like Tokyo Ghoul, and she'd fit a lot better.)

The problem is the narrative, because it keeps placing them together, and dramatically panning in on them, as if there are real feelings there. Not only that, it makes it seem like those feelings of Himiko's are, to an extent, returned when Ochako's interactions are dead ass, 'Hey, what if you stop murdering people alright?'

Until recently, there's been basiclly no justification for there being any sort of feelings between them, because one is channeling her usual stalker serial killer behavior, and the other is literally trying to arrest her, but it's just the narrative is just... shipping them so damn hard. At this point I'd swear it's going to start playing romantic music in background while it zooms in on their faces or something.

Worst part, though, is just as Himiko has her 'big moment of villainy' (which is terrible on so many levels), it feels like Ochako is.... giving into the narrative's peer pressure, at least in part, and trying to approach Himiko as more than just the hero trying to stop her, between being concerned about her tears and apparently unironically wanting to talk about love with her, when before I thought it was her frantically trying to distract Himiko while she was on Twice Time. And that? That has no real support anywhere in story, beyond in the most meta of senses the story itself, and feels just a few steps below the author physically pushing their heads together and saying, 'Now kiss'.

[below-et-almost]

tw: the section on Aphrodite brings up a dub/non-con curse

I haven't thought about the Iliad in years. Like a decade. but OH man this au has me so excited about putting Maedhros in this world!!! He's outside of Arda and the role he bound himself to within it, and he can do serious good here! Also, he can sow some serious confusion.

Somehow, Maedhros is even more lost than Odysseus was... What next, is he gonna get lost enough to land himself and his band of refugees in Ithaca? And what kind of advice can Tiresias give him for getting back to Beleriand?

The shipboard adventures are gonna go rather differently, with this crew. Circe, for one, may be less initially aggressive towards a ship full of refugee women and children; but, going by her other various exploits, quite probably not for long. There are several directions for that encounter that pop to mind, actually.

Circe as Sorceress Fatale is attracted to this exotic and unusual hero/leader now under her power, and she gets cursing-level offended when this interest is not reciprocated.

Something dealing with how Circe 'purified' the argonauts of murdering Medea's brother. While the ritual in and of itself is not super important to Maedhros, I think that it's super interesting how she both purifies them even before knowing what they did and then, after the telling, denies them hospitality. There's something there about personal forgiveness (she doesn't give it) versus offering second chances (the purification) and her not offering then hospitality to these people as the continue to pursue the pre-second chance goal. And I think that oath-bound Maedhros could have a very interesting discussion with her about second chances and the sunk cost fallacy. Especially this Maedhros, who has found himself lost in a world not his own, who has found himself outside of his oath-bound role for the first time in centuries and whose preconceptions about the world have just been rocked.

Also super interested in how Ares, Aphrodite, and Hephaestus' attention will affect the adventures of our intrepid crew.

It could be fun if Hephaestus is curious about the metal alloy technology Maedhros is wearing. Also, if he knows that Maedhros isn't his son and figures out that Aphrodite genuinely does not believe him to be hers, he's in a position to be even more curious! Which is to say, Hephaestus chatting with and/or throwing 'little' challenges and puzzles Maedhros' way to try to figure him and his origins out.

Ares is also paying attention, which I think is hilarious. Or, at first I thought it was hilarious. Then I started seeing parallels. Maedhros' deeds of great valor and orc-terrifying ferociousness are very on-brand for Ares. The narrative is also very ambivalent towards him in much the same way as mythology is towards Ares, and for much the same reasons. The warlike attitude and aptitude to help defeat the enemy threat is praised, but, like the sons of Feanor on Doriath and Sirion, Ares can and will bring that same violence against his supplicants. And he's also often portrayed as humiliated by his pride... like the son of Feanor who for all his fearsome oath and deeds of valor did not damage Morgoth, attacked elves, and refused mercy only to kill himself.

So: Maedhros has got the courage and physical prowess and bloodthirsty attitude-- and he hates this part of himself and how he's turned it on his fellow elves. Meanwhile Ares is all for belligerence and warfare and has to be ritually chained-in-effigy in order to not continue causing strife after helping to repel enemies. They could have a really interesting dynamic. Like, Maedhros would absolutely despise Ares, but I think that Ares could roll with that enough to continue to initiate interesting interactions.

Aphrodite... she is pissed, and she is powerful! There's some tension re: how powerful Aphrodite is, which we can see even in the Iliad, where she both kicks off the entire war with her curse and gets scolded by Zeus for getting injured on the field of battle, where she shouldn't be because she doesn't have power there. (But in other instances she is associated with battle thru Ares or even thru the physicality of battle itself-- and later from the influence of Venus Genetrix of Rome-- and in other hymns she seems to have great power over all things that procreate.)

In any case, her curses are potent. She needs to give Maedhros a good curse! This could be some awful whump scenario, or this could be a hilariously ineffectual curse to desperately and effeminately (going off of the idea of active/passive roles in male-male relationships and the domination of a woman by her husband or lover) long for a relative-- thwarted by Maedhros already being a sad widower for his cousin and liege. I'd consider the former more likely, except the latter would fit well with the themes of the narratives not knowing how to handle their swapped characters. Idk perhaps she ineffectively and hilariously curses him the first time, and when that doesn't work, she either curses him to have sex with someone/thing he'd really rather not or makes his dick fall off /shrug. But she can't like, gainsay her first curse, so she's stuck with curse options that don't change his amorous emotions/cause a permanent mental state that would make him forget his priorities?? So we can have the humorous moment, the acknowledgement of Aphrodite's power, and the fact that the way in which Aphrodite didn't understand Maedhros blunts her curses from 'chronic mindfuck' to 'serious trauma but at least it's not permanent mindfuck'.

Maedros in Troy AU

Long, long post about my very niche obsession. Original AU by @sweetteaanddragons can be found here.

Every so often when I'm listening to EPIC, my mind will play six-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon and I'll end up back at this AU. This particular addition was inspired by my remembering that Achilles was a redhead (Or maybe strawberry-blonde, idk enough about the Greek language to say for sure. His son was a redhead, and he once went by the alias of "the redheaded girl.")

The morning after the sack of Troy is a somber affair, even, surprisingly, amongst the victors. The surviving Achaean princes limp their way back to the feet of the horse, finally able to take a headcount. Odysseus and Ajax the Lesser are missing, Neoptolemus is nursing a nasty leg-wound, and less concerning but equally inconvenient, Menelaus and Helen have absconded to Sparta to start their second honeymoon.

Neoptolemus, in particular, has been having a day. First he got paired with Odysseus, which he has come to learn means he's going to be acting as the muscle while the Ithacan takes the credit. Then Odysseus was granted the honor of ending Hector's bloodline, and Neo couldn't even say anything because the order came directly from the mouth of Zeus. (Odysseus already took his father's armor. Could Neo not at least be allowed his vengeance?) Then Hector's woman took a swipe at him with a dagger, which Neo handled quite easily, then a madman burst out of the crypts and nearly cut his leg off, which presented a bit more of a challenge.

The princes compare notes, slowly piecing together a picture of The Stranger who carved a bloody swath through their armies and then disappeared as quickly as he materialized. Finally, Eurylochus says what everyone else has been thinking (fearing). Towering in stature, redhaired, wearing armor that turned their blades and wielding a sword that pierced through bronze like soft clay? They all know who that sounds like.

Yes, the others reluctantly admit, The Stranger is most definitely the ghost of Achilles, returned from the grave to once again punish them all for the sake of some personal slight. (Neo can't stop thinking about the look in the man's eyes, that look of pity or maybe disappointment before he left the youth bleeding on the steps of Hector's tomb).

Diomedes is the only one to object. Aside from Neo, he was the only one to get a good look at The Stranger and live to tell about it. That wasn't Achilles. In fact, he made the man bleed, so he wasn't a ghost either. No one else seems convinced.

Neo confirms that Odysseus went into Hector's tomb alone, and only The Stranger emerged. Sage nods are exchanged amongst the other princes -- Achilles must have returned to avenge his old comrade, Greater Ajax. But then why would he kill so many Achaeans after presumably taking his vengeance on Odysseus? (Agamemnon scoffs. As if Achilles ever needed a reason to be a pain.)

Then a messenger arrives, breathlessly announcing that Ajax the Lesser has been found. Specifically, he has been found dead by a blow from The Stranger's magic sword, lying at the feet of a toppled statue of Athena.

Now that's clearly an omen of some sort, though no one can agree on what message to take from it. Athena is Odysseus's patron, but is the toppled statue a sign of judgement or of disrespect? Does this have anything to do with The Lesser's cousin The Greater? Nestor suggests consulting the Trojan oracle Helenus. They left the boy tied up on Agamemnon's ship after Odysseus finished with him, and he was still alive the last time they checked. Perhaps he can interpret the omen.

This plan only makes it as far as the beach, where the gang discovers that both the oracle and Agamemnon's flagship have been stolen.

Suddenly it all makes perfect sense. Diomedes explodes -- yet again, Achilles is punishing them all for the sake of his feud with Agamemnon. The High King sputters out a denial -- he and Achilles were square when the man died. His conscience is perfectly clean. He still looks as if he is actively having a heart attack.

Nestor attempts to intervene. Diomedes shouldn't jump to conclusions... But if Agamemnon knows of anything that might have brought a vengeful Achilles back from the grave, he really should tell them. They promise they won't be mad.

Agamemnon has the horrible, sinking feeling that this might be about the fact that he took a leak on the ashes of Achille's funeral pyre. But he's certainly not going to admit to that. Wounded or no, Neo has a good couple of inches on him, and the kid is built like he strangles oxen for a hobby. He has that same twitchy look in his eye that his father always had.

This man cannot have been Achilles, he insists, and Agamemnon is going to bring back his head to prove it! (No one else is willing to set sail while the son of a Nereid might be after their heads, and Agamemnon is quite sure that they're one more bad omen away from sacrificing him to appease Achilles. It's what he would do, were he in their position.) Eurylochus and his crew quickly get pressed into service -- they need a captain, and Agamemnon needs a boat. And don't they want to avenge their fallen king?

Neo insists on coming along, much to Agamemnon's horror.

Maedhros isn't ready to panic just yet. Disorienting as that first night was, he's now fairly certain that he knows where he is. He's on the eastern side of the Sea of Rhûn. This is an inland sea, and the climate and general look of the people suggest that he's somewhere south and east of Dorwinion. He's a long way from home, to be sure, but at least he knows how to get back. He takes a moment to privately curse that storm Maia for dragging him so far out of his way.

He's fairly certain that the woman he rescued is the baby's mother. At least, she seemed very relieved to have him back. So if he recalls the storm Maia's threats correctly, that would make her the prince's widow. The others seem to tentatively consider her to be in charge, and she's at least attempted to communicate with him. Maybe she can help him get his bearings.

Unfortunately, she doesn't speak any of the Easterling tongues he learned from Bór. That's not terribly surprising. Rhûn is a land of many nations, and this particular clan must be rather isolated if they're still casting weapons out of bronze. That's fine. He might not invent new languages on a whim as his father did, but he does enjoy learning them.

The golden-haired girl hasn't stopped watching him. She looks away with a pained expression every time he catches her at it, but even now he can feel her eyes boring into the back of his head. He saw eyes like that once before -- the first time he saw a mirror after Thangorodrim.

The others give her a wide berth, though she does nothing apart from sit curled under the mast, arms around her knees. During their flight, she broke from her stupor long enough to lead them to this ship -- the same ship where they found the prisoner who Maedhros assumes to be her twin brother. It almost seemed as if she knew where...

But that would be ridiculous. She couldn't have known. Maedhros rather forcibly shrugs the notion off. They're twins. He's seen Amrod and Amras do far stranger.

On his first night, Maedhros was too preoccupied to look up. Even had he chanced to look at the sky, the smoke of the city's burning would have blotted out the stars. He spends the following day tending to the wounded, despite having nothing but torn clothing and seawater, and offering what comfort he can, despite speaking not a word of their language. When the sun sets, he forces himself to stay awake. One look at the stars will give him his heading, and from there he can plan the route home...

Oh. Maedhros doesn't know those stars.

Maedhros is beginning to suspect that he isn't in Rhûn.

More coming soon, by request of @sweetteaanddragons !

[sunfyrisms]

of course the show that is fundamentally centered around two sisters and their tragedies becomes centered around men and said sisters are sidelined and their arcs are pushed to the sidelines and all the phenomenal care that went into their characters went down the drain. ​one’s arc is literally “the traumatized / mentally unwell character’s happy ending is committing suicide because they are simply too broken to heal and be happy” trope, and her mental instability is forgotten. the other is reduced to a mere plot device, has no agency of her own, and her trauma and anger is treated like a complete and utter joke for the sake of a shitty ship, and because the writers literally, point blank, were bored with her. it’s so sad because the tragedy of these sisters is so utterly devastating, so encompassing and so intricately woven into the narrative. but make it about two men i suppose?

[nyxi-pixie]

hello average tumblr user. in front of you is a femslash rarepair. your challenge is to not start psychoanalysing its fans and saying they only pretend to like it to score social points, not depart from your 'shipping is for fun people can do what they want' view of mlm rarepairs, and not start randomly commenting on posts about them how you actually prefer those female characters with men who are or are not important to their characters. Live or die. Go.

[fromtheseventhhell]

When Dany and Arya are the first Targaryen/Stark duo to interact and people start seeing the light on Daenarya >>>>>>

[kismetconstellations]

☆.☆.☆

[thetwilightroadtonightfall]

so I’ve been trying to think of the best way to talk about Skuld’s fate for a while now and I think I’ve finally got it. My feelings about how she could be handled are a bit complicated (maybe even controversial? lol) but I hope I can make myself clear. This is essentially gonna be the post I point to whenever and if ever I need it later in the future. Thanks in advance if you read this!

If for whatever reason it’s confirmed that Skuld isn’t Subject χ and she gets together with Ephemer in canon (which I don’t believe will actually happen, but who knows), I do genuinely think there’d be something incredibly poetic about both of them leaving behind a legacy together.

Skuld as Subject χ is a super intriguing concept that I want to see get played out in canon, and even outside of that possibility, I would really love to just see her go on her own journey, have her own story where she can grapple with the events of khux in her own ways. But as someone who also happens to love her and Eph’s dynamic, I like to indulge in the possibility of them founding Scala together too.

Believe me when I say that I’m very skeptical of Skuld getting the credit and spotlight she deserves given the track record of how female characters are treated in this series. It would break my heart if Skuld got turned into an accessory or got shafted or worst case scenario, is used only to kickstart the Ephy lineage and nothing more outside of that. She deserves good, solid writing no matter what her fate is, I’m sure we can all agree on that at least.

And then there’s also the question of whether or not Nomura would ever establish a canon romantic relationship, and if he even should do that in the first place. I think it would be great, as long as it’s written in such a way that it doesn’t impede on the other types of relationships he’s already established. It could delve into some interesting new territory that can highlight the themes of kh, and make them even stronger and more profound. But you don’t absolutely need romance in order for that to be accomplished, ya feel?

Do I love Skuld and Eph together? Yes. Do I think they should be together (romantically) in canon? Not necessarily. You can both enjoy a ship AND recognize the nuances involved.

But anyway anywaaaaay, long disclaimers aside, these two characters have been through so much together…they witnessed two apocalypses. They’ve suffered the loss of a dear friend at their hands, along with their other friends as a result of horrible circumstances they had no control over. They stayed side by side as their home collapsed around and on them. But they also laughed together. They looked out for each other, stood up for each other. Encouraged and comforted and teased each other so they would smile.

From the very beginning, to the very end, they had each other over and over again. Clinging to hope with incredible resilience. From party members, to friends, to leaders. They’re both wonderful characters who I have no doubt would support each other throughout the rest of their lives, just as they always have.

I’ll be fine if a romance between them doesn’t become canon, in fact I’ll probably be pretty relieved. But I can’t deny that the idea of the two of them being entwined forever, bonded by the tragedies they’ve been through, yet also by all of their happy times and shared memories, is a beautiful thought to me.

Surviving to see the other side and building everything from the ground up again together, and seeing the legacy that follows their love, is a story worth telling, in my opinion. In the end, if that’s a story left to us fans to tell, that’s more than enough for me. We have so much to work with. Regardless of what Nomura and/or the rest of the writing team choose to do, I don’t need them to be a canon couple to enjoy the profound love and care they have for each other.

TL;DR - Whatever happens with Skuld, I’m down for the ride. As long as she’s present, period, I’m here for it. Just…please for the love of god, let her be written well. I miss her so much and I need all these years of loving her character to pay off

[bitchthefuck1]

you know what, I actually will talk about this because it's bothering me. The issue with focussing so heavily on syd and carmy's potential for a romantic relationship isn't that there's something inherently unintellectual about romance or whatever, it's that a lot of people seem incapable of doing that without immediately flattening the story and ignoring or intentionally misreading any and all nuance for the sake of that romance. Every scene suddenly becomes about how it impacts their relationship, every analysis is done through a romantic lens, every frame or line of dialogue becomes about finding some easter egg or hint that "proves" these people should start dating. Their dynamic is absolutely a fundamental part of this show, but if you can only see it as a will-they-won't-they, you miss so much of what the story is actually trying to say with these two.

There are good versions of this story where their relationship is romantic and there are good versions of this story where it isn't, but as soon as you decide them being together is "the point," you lose the ability to actually judge the story for what it is, not what you want it to be.

[nanaten]

i need a cigarette. i love clausten so much im so ill about this ship i hate

[blueskittlesart]

not to be a hater but it does drive me insane how so many online conversations are so centered around sidon and yona (and link 😞) and not any of the delicious narratives that totk gave us

like why should we talk about rauru and sonia and their relationship w zelda? why would we talk about zelda and how her relationship w link progressed post calamity? oh are we gonna talk about the sheer insanity that is ZELDA TURNIJG INTOA. FUCKING DRAGON??? no??? shipping discourse over sharks? ok

not to swing a bat at a hornet's nest but it really does feel like specifically mlm ships take precedence in fandom spaces over EVERYTHING else regardless of whether the ship in question actually has like. any canon backing whatsoever. like totk specifically, a ton of the story revolves around zelda, a female character which certain fans notoriously hate for the crime of. being a woman with feelings. like gee i wonder why we all simultaneously decided to ignore the story of this one. i wonder why we really really really want to focus on this random male side character's incredibly minor story instead of the literal titular character of the game. could it perhaps be because some of us are predisposed to ignore and dismiss women in all contexts. could it be perhaps that we don't want to reckon with a woman we didn't like in the last game reclaiming her agency and healing from her trauma and being a positive driving force in the narrative and would rather talk about 2 men and how lame and stupid the woman who dares to exist inbetween them is instead. hmm

[soulight]

went too far into the atla tags and now i wanna die

small edit i won't be following atla solo muses aside from close friends because of past experiences!

[mysteriouslybluepirate]

Can't send asks from my sideblog, but this is @chewing-the-drywall

I feel like much of s2 fell into Frenchie's "we put it in the box and then lock it and don't open it again" in the sense that it set up A LOT that I was intrigued about how they would address it, but it either never was mentioned again or was handled poorly.

Examples range from light, like how I wish we saw more of the crew interacting with each other in ways that built on their characters from S1, where in S2 they didn't feel any more developed, or even regressed. (Example, Fang used the word Fingies 2-3 times through S2, and it felt like they were using it almost as a shorthand for his character, rather than making him feel more real and multidimensional as a character.)

100% @chewing-the-drywall. When I first heard that line I had I was so excited for the story to prove Frenchie wrong. Or show how important it can be to put aside problems to stay alive in the moment. But in the end, this one line summarized how the season handled everyone, besides Stede and Ed. Below, is an in depth discussion on where this season decided to spend it's limited amount of time. Instead of focusing on the characters and plotlines they'd already established.

This season had so MANY ideas it wanted to touch on.

Izzy trying to deal with his unrequited love and opening up to a new way of living. The traumatized 'Revenge' crew trying to adapt to a softer way of life again. The abandoned crew learning how to help their traumatized friends. Introducing new characters like Zheng, Auntie, and Archie into our main group. Setting up a conflict to resolve in season three. Along the way, referencing Pirates of history like Ned Low, Mary Reed, and Anne Bonny.

Notice, I've said all this and we're not even at our romantic leads.

Which is fine. Stories are fluid things. As long as the story knows how to flow from our leads to our side characters. Which leads us to how I feel this show took a lot of time away from establishing our central crew-

[Warning- this will be a controversial opinion- I want to know what y'all think about this] Zheng/Oluwande. This seasons habit of retreading old plotlines and referencing scenes from S1.

What S1 did so well was paralleling the side stories with what was going on with Ed/Stede. Usually, highlighting how well Stede/Ed worked by showing how much Ed/Izzy DIDN'T work. Or general hijinks that tied into the plot (Oluwande and Frenchie on the French ship).

Season 2 chose to parallel our main story with what was going on between Zheng/Oluwande as a budding romance and Izzy's slow recovery. The reason Zheng/Oluwande scenes felt like a waste for me in that the story was JUST a retelling the story we watched from S1.

A frustrated first mate(Auntie), and a legendary captain(Zheng) fighting over the captain falling in love with an idiot(Olu). In season 2, much like every callback for me, it felt like it slowed down the plot by pulling us out of the story. Like...yeah, you did the thing again, do you want me to applaud you for it?

I LIKE Zheng and Oluwande as a couple! I like that Oluwande was debating leaving Stede and taking Jim and Archie with him. But at the same time, I didn't care about Zheng until episode 7 when she beat up Stede, showing that yes. She's not just some all powerful woman taken down by a mix of love(the crew in ep3) and thinking that she was above it all (ep 7). She's fast on her feet, smart, and willing to stab someone who gets in her way. She's her own person. But.

Every other scene that established her was about her romance, felt like we could have put Rhys and Taika in there. It didn't feel...unique. It's as if the show only knows 1 way to write a romance between a badass and a bumbling idiot. Again. Oluwande in season 1 wasn't dumb in the same way everyone else was. He was protective of Jim, a bit nervous overall, but he was the person the crew chose to lead them. The season just dumbed everyone down a bit and called it a day.

This comes to the larger issue. When we only have eight episodes I don't want to rewatch the exact same plot beats with different characters. Time spent here ends up taking away from other stories we could have told about trauma and growing as a family and other forms of growing as a family. We didn't need another romance plot line. Imagine taking this time instead to show Lucius reaching out to Pete AND the crew for help. Or Frenchie finally feeling safe enough to play his lute. Or Roach helping Fang get over his thing with cakes-you get my point.

The fact we took all the found family stuff from season one, and pushed it onto only Izzy in S2 means when he dies, all the found family shit falls away. His death makes us realize we've been ignoring the central family we were supposed to care about. Because in so many words, their trauma was ignored.

[I even theorize if Izzy was alive and sailed away with them. Showing how he was taken in and loved by his crew, the ending wouldn't feel so hollow. This crew doesn't feel like a caring family. The person who protected them for months died, wasn't mourned, and then they threw a wedding the same day. Not even a full day to mourn. The 'New Revenge' feels like a heartless crew of characters we barely recognize because they aren't a family like they were at the end of S1. More like coworkers who sometimes fall in love with eachother.]

Trauma, Timelines, and Tonal issues when jumping from Episodes 1-3 to Episodes 4-5.

When the crews meet up, the story chooses to focus on the fun plot. Ed and Stede recovering their relationship, only dipping back into that serious tone when Izzy or Lucius come on screen to 'make things sad' again. I don't think the transition from 'serious' to 'comedy' was handled well.

I don't have an official timeline of the events of season two. But from what I remember, everything happens within 2 weeks.

In episode 4, Stede ignored the vote of his crew- to let the man who was torturing half his 'FAMILY' for at least 80 days- back aboard. This rubbed me the wrong way, as it showed Stede being a selfish prick in a way that could seriously harm his crew. That's when I started to see how not adding a *single* time-skip mid-season would hurt S2.

Imagine if we had a one-week off-screen time skip between episodes 4 and 5.

Maybe it's implied that they stay in that town for a bit. Izzy would a bit more time to learn to move on his new leg and start to open up to those he already trusts. Include a scene of Izzy WITH the crew, maybe laughing about something with the old traumatized crew, even if it's just a 30-second opener. Imply that the traumatized crew would have more time to settle in with the family they miss. Show that yeah, the traumatized crew needs more time to heal. Imply at the start of the 'Ed apology' that Ed and Stede have had more time to talk their issues out.

THEN have Ed apologize. You can even keep the bullshit corporate to show that Ed still has to work for this.

Healing takes time. Setting a series over the span of two weeks after half your cast was tortured by your lead love interest? After five of your main crew thought they would sail off into a storm and die after months of stress and life threatening battles? Why did that shit get shoved to the side so quickly?

Framing episode 5 as the START of Ed making amends with the crew, only to drop the plot by episode 7? Not a smart move. Because let's be honest, 'poison into positivity' in episode 6, referring to the fact that they sold all of Ed's loot to pay for the party, ignores the sacrifices the crew made to live that long. (The death of Ivan, and intense trauma they all need to work through). In a way, Ed throwing this party was him asking the crew to start putting everything away in that imaginary box.

It's Ed retroactively letting himself say 'hey, that time I spent torturing my captives was worth it because we got something good out of it' while still ignoring his own guilt. Ed needed to take accountability for his actions. No more 'I took 'a' mans leg' bullshit. The reason his arc feels so unsatisfying is that the plot easily forgives him. Fuck. I hate what they did for Ed's arc, but that's not the point.

Overall.

My issue with this season is not that it chose to do these topics, it's that it didn't think about the implications of what they were bringing up. It didn't dare to think 'maybe it's fucked if we quickly brush off a trauma like this'. Again. I know we have to blame MAX for cutting off two episodes. But I don't think 2 additional episodes would fix a tone problem seen going from episodes 3-4.

Fucking hell. Each member of the revenge had the potential for their own arc, so it's baffling to see them all reduced to 'well meaning idiot' when they all felt so fleshed out in S1.

When izzy gives his speech about belonging, there's a reason the only image in the show of the crew all together was from S1.

At the end of the day, Season 2 didn't let our surviving side characters grow. This is a mean spirited bit on how I feel the writers see the their own characters.

Stede and Ed are our leads. They won't die, not in this genera. Their shitty actions will be forgiven because it's a comedy, and as long as it's joked about, it holds no weight. They won't die. They won't get fatally hurt. Their trauma will be taken seriously, but it's a 50/50 on if they'll talk about it before breaking up again. They will eventually get a happy ending, their trauma looked at head on, because duh.

Jim, Olu, Lucius, Pete? Characters who used to have defined personalities in S1, but haven't been defined much beyond their relationships with their partners? Whose trauma might be mentioned, but will quickly be 'resolved' in one scene? Shame. Seems like they're only useful as set dressing, But we might make you useful as interchangeable side characters to riff against. Oh, and you're in love! Isn't that cool!

Izzy? I'll just quote Jenkins here. "To have him become a father figure to Blackbeard, and on some level to the rest of the crew, and to see him become the heart of why we’re giving pirates the chance to stand for being able to live how you choose. In reality, they’re thieves and criminals, but what our pirates stand for is a life of belonging to something larger than they are in the face of a crushing, slightly fascist normalcy." So...Is Izzy a pirate and accepted into the Revenge family? Or is he still an outsider? Jenkins gave us a romcom but still defines Izzy's character as that of one stuck in a drama/tragedy. Point and laugh, because tonally these two things clash HARD and will make an audience lose trust in it's writers unless well established. Leading us to the entire issue we've pointed out of not letting your characters actions hold in dramatic weight in your story.

Frenchie, Wee John, Roach, and Fang- Ah. No love interests again...shit. Well. Background actors it is... for now. We'll see. But we need 2 more scenes of the couple breaking up, so MAYBE you'll get some backstory hinted at in dialogue. You all have 1 thing your good at, so that's easy enough to put you where you belong.

Buttons and Swede? Well. They're still alive!! Don't be sad, fans :) The actors just couldn't show up anymore. We don't want our silly happy queer pirate rom com to not end on a happy ending! (Closes the lid of the trash can where they're keep Con O'Neill a bit tighter, thanking God Con was silenced by a strike this entire season from social media)

Do you agree, or disagree? Leave any lingering thoughts down below!

I'd love to chat down below.

[sukibenders]

"I love ATLA, it's one of my favorite shows! But I hate Aang! He's my least favorite character because he's selfish, immature, practically started the war in the first place, and he's so possessive-"

Like, it's okay to not like a character and everything, as everyone is drawn to something different. But if you're going to contrive a complete bs argument and mischaracterize the character to try and justify your unfair hate, just keep it to yourself. Also, reminder, Aang is a kid for the majority of the show so of course some of the things he does are going to be either a.) childish or b.) something that an older person wouldn't necessarily choose out the gate. Or did you think you were all wise and knowing as a child? 🤨