justatalkingface

[justatalkingface]

PSA: Speedrunning a story is BAD, or Speedrun Manga Hell.

I know, to the people who lurk in my home of MHA crit and BNHA crit, this isn't exactly news, but I want to practice posting more. So why not?

To sum it up in one snappy line? Spending time on a plot point is the difference between it being a story, and it being an outline.

At least in my mind, an outline is as much a series of messages to yourself than it is an actual story, one or two lines representing a larger concept you, the author, understand, placed to remind you that 'this is where that goes'. Fundamentally, it's not meant for the readers to look at, it's for the author use to help write.

Much like a flower needs water to grow, for an idea to bloom into it's full potential it needs time.

Time spent establishing it's existence in the story.

Time spent discussing or explaining the idea.

Time spent watching it play out in real time.

Time spent watching people react to it after the fact.

And though it was (as I've been going into) a deeply flawed story before that point, the War Arc is where MHA changed, turning from a story into more of a well illustrated outline. This was the moment that even the people who weren't paying a lot of attention to the plot started to notice, 'Hey, the story seems to be worse lately?'

Ever since that point, save only his most favored of topics (Endeavor, Bakugou, and Shigaraki's ever growing collection of fingers) Hori began rushing the story more and more, and there's no better example of this than the main character, Izuku 'I'm literally Hori's puppet' Midoryia.

Seriously, pick out a post War Arc part of the story, and I'll give you a list of points where Izuku isn't given the time any character with a real role in the story deserves, much less the actual main character.

Some universal topics, though, generally include:

What does Izuku think of: (insert plot point here)?

How are people in Class 1A responding to: (insert Izuku related plot point here)?

Often leading to the follow up question of: When is the last time Izuku talked to Class 1A, and not Bakugou (or to a lesser extent Shoto or Ochaku), how long was that interaction, and deep was that actual conversation?

What does Izuku feel when: (insert Bakugou's most recent/relevent insult/actual assault on his person)?

How much has time has Izuku spent mastering his latest abilities recently, not counting when he's in active combat while using them?

When is the last time the Vestiges have shown up as anything other than, 'background images that brood dramatically in the direction of Shigaraki and/or AFO'?

Why do all of these answers fail to satisfy you?

All of that, all of the spiraling issues that come from just those questions... and that's just (just!) the 'main character'. Think about how many characters are in the story at this point, think about how many plot points Hori has been (failing) to juggle. Even if they deserve less attention that Izuku... all of time needed is. Well. A Lot.

Off the top of your head... how much of that needed time was actually happened? For anything in this story?

*gestures broadly*

Exactly. Welcome to Speedrun Manga Hell. Welcome to The Illustrated Outline.

[justatalkingface]

I don't see why people spend any effort defending Endeavor since he's such an empty character. He's got nothing besides his "atonement." No real bonds, no hobbies, what is Endeavor outside the """good"" "hero."

This can be extended to most characters in MHA. However, rather than defending their wasted potential, Endeavor defenders just defend the existing character.

If MHA is trying to get me to like a character (and MHA is trying with Endeavor), then humanize him. That's right, humanize the abuser. At least then he would entertaining if people ignore his abuse.

I mean, you said it yourself: they like him because of his atonement. That entire thing was made just to make Endeavor into an actual character who people would like.

To expand on your question, the reason why people are so invested in his redemption arc falls into two reasons:

The first is that, to be blunt? As bad as this is, as ham handed, as basiclly fucked up it is, on so many levels? This redemption arc is so far beyond anything in it's category (that is, abusive fathers dealing with their shit) that it stands head and shoulders of the rest, easily.

Shonen has a long, storied history of giving people massively fucked up dynamics, and then having everyone, especially the people with them, accept it as normal and then never really talk about it, and the father son relationship often is the worst of them all. So many shonen fathers treat their sons in ways that are flat out torture, in ways that make Endeavor look kind, only to never let them have any real consequences for it.

So, compared to that? It can look pretty nice. And that much... well, I can respect that. It's the other reason that's the problem:

The Narrative. Hori uses the narrative like a weapon, and he just... clubs everyone around him with it, all the time. It makes him a focus, makes them think about him. It's his favorite tool. At times, using the narrative to low-key gaslight his readers into accepting a character's new dynamic seems to be his only way to really deal with a problematic character.

The reason why Endeavor is so beloved now isn't about how he's changed, it's that readers have been subjected to endless torrents of Endeavor support from every character in the story, constantly. Every one of his flaws is glossed over, every virtue, supposed or otherwise, is shouted to the heavens, and fundamentally, people just.... respond to that. They listen to what they're being told.

[justatalkingface]

If we already on Aizawa talk, it’s pretty obvious that Hori wanted to create another kakashi.

But he ultimately failed to understand what made Kakashi so popular, kakashi also wasn’t that much liked in part 1… while Aizawa is worshipped in the fandom as a saint that can’t do anything wrong.

Kakashi regretted everything at the end of part 1 and improved so much by the time of part 2.

Aizawa took 2 wars to apologize to izuku, and even then it was felt half assed.

Fundamentally, I think the thing is that Kakashi is a character that belongs in the Naruto setting. Like. He's a character that makes sense; his motivations make sense, his actions make sense... he fits.

Eraserhead, though, is unironically just all of Kakashi's beats copied onto MHA, but... you know, he's not in ninja land, so a lot of his actions don't make sense? He is a character that exists in MHA, not one that fits in it.

For example: we know Kakashi teaches because he's basically mandated by law, as part of a master apprentice system. Because the village helped raise him as high as it did (along with it being an absolute military dictatorship built around trying to monopolize violence), he's obligated to give back to it by helping raise the next generation.

Moreover, it quickly became apparent that he liked teaching. He may not have been the best at it early on, but the man unironically seemed to have a blast fucking around with teaching them every day, even before he really became attached. Also, he actually taught them things.

Aizawa teaches because he... likes teaching...? *flashes back to every moment where Aizawa basically says, 'Don't you dare child anywhere I can possibly perceive you* along with... peer pressure. Apparently.

He's in a school, where he's expected to teach entire classes of children all day, five days a week... but he seems to hate that?

He's admitted, I think on multiple occasions, that he hasn't taught them anything, (which I agree with, since he generally just exists nearby while the kids teach them damn selves.)

Another notable flaw is Hori fundamentally misunderstands why Kakashi wouldn't shut up about 'underneath the underneath' before Shippuden (where all subtly flew out the window): because the man is a fucking ninja, in a world populated by ninja, dominated by ninja wars, teaching ninja children how to be ninja.

By definition, they're supposed to be paranoid, unhappy little shits that'd sooner kill someone than believe a word they say, because that means they would have better odds of surviving the hellscape that is Naruto.

Aizawa, meanwhile. is teaching heroes. Public figures. And not only that, he's teaching how not to trust badly.

Kakashi's lessons are practical, yet calculated: when he tricks them, it's always light, harmless teasing, or a dead ass serious lesson on, 'if you keep doing this kind of thing some asshole is going to stab you'. Even though he's doing all that, though, there's never a doubt in the kid's minds to trust him if he gets serious because his happy go lucky persona is clearly that: a persona. It's just one more mask he wears, which means Serious Business is clearly separated from Silly Kakashi Fun Time.

Aizawa teaches them... that he's lazy, he hates them, and that he's allergic to the truth. That's... that's it. No matter how much he pretends it's a lesson, it's really just his personality, so the kids have no reason to trust anything he tells them without evidence.

Fundamentally, their trust in him should be so broken that it actually puts them in danger, because there really doesn't seem to be anything he takes seriously, so when he tells them something important.... they say, 'Cite?', instead of acting on what he says, because of all the other times he told them something 'important', and it was 'jUsT a LOgiCaL RUse'.

Unironically, the fact that this man was never fired actually breaks my suspension of disbelief more than the idea of superpowers ever will, and the fact that he's never gotten any of the kids he's 'taught' killed flat out destroys it. I've mentioned it before, but his behavior logically would have gotten some of that class murdered because of how little they trusted him.

All of that combined, I think, is why he's designated The Mouth of Hori, given that 'sacred' role to push whatever message Hori wants to readers to get: because he's not a character in his own right, he's a half assed Naruto character randomly put there to get viewership, so whatever out of nowhere action he does to push Hori's agenda doesn't distract from all the other out of nowhere actions he does to push Hori's agenda.

[justatalkingface]

I JUST FREAKING REALIZED SOMETHING!!!

Aizawa didn’t get into the hero course until his second year and was bullied by Sensoji for being a waste of space.

And Sensoji's actions were justified.

Now stick with me here.

Isn’t it a bit odd how Bakugou's behavior was justified? And I don't mean just in a favoritism way.

Despite how much he was willing to bash Class 1-A, Hitoshi didn't seem to acknowledge Aizawa favoring Bakugou. Not once. This is odd as he was there when Aizawa openly defended Bakugou during the Sports Festival. And you'd think Aizawa would correct Hitoshi's opinions on Class 1-A, but he doesn't.

And with how Aizawa made the battle between both hero courses focus on Hitoshi...

I'm sorry. Correct me if I'm wrong but...

Was Aizawa setting things up for Hitoshi to become like him? Was Bakugou going to be set up to be another Sensoji that Hitoshi had to face off?

Because if the war didn't happen...Hitoshi was going to be in Class 1-A way earlier.

...I don't think Eraserhead is self-aware enough to plan something like, which is saying something because even more self-awareness would tell him how stupid it is, but...

It's hard to get past the fact that, fundamentally, he's a hollow shell of a man. In all likelihood, he was a mess before Oboro, but after he died? I think something just... broke inside him.

This isn't really something I talk about, but at the core of him, Eraserhead is someone going through the motions, just existing one day at a time. He doesn't seem to have... goals. Objectives. Plans. Desires. Dreams. All he really has is his work, and he's not really doing his work well, is the thing. The first thing he does after getting life altering injuries is go back to work the next day, held together by staples and a prayer. Logically, that not only put back his healing, it might have actually worsened how much permanent damage he had.

He works day and night, and it's clear he's not managing his time well by his constant exhaustion, so most likely if he's not doing UA stuff, or being dragged around by his friends, he's off fighting crime. I mean, hell, he barely even eats.

He doesn't shave, he doesn't clean up, he doesn't get his hair cut... all of that stuff is because he probably doesn't have the energy or will to do it, and, real talk? I honestly wonder if he's so skinny because he's malnourished in some form, because those jelly packets or whatever can't actually be meeting all his nutritional needs, especially with how much energy he has to be burning every day.

I think the main reason Present Mic and Midnight got him to join UA was to save his life. Not from a major threat or anything, but from himself. With him at UA, they could dial him back, stop him from running around picking fights and parkouring across roofs 24/7, and maybe even get a real meal in him.

All of the stuff I've been talking about... 'logically', doesn't that ruin his vaulted 'efficiency'?

When Eraserhead says, 'efficiency', or 'logically', or whatever other word he uses to sound smart, he doesn't really mean, 'doing it in the best way possible', even if he's lying to himself that he is; what he's actually saying is 'doing it the most simple and straightforward way possible, right now'. If he thinks a student is too much trouble, rather than trying to fix the problem he just gets rid of them, and if they manage to pull themselves together after he does that? All the better.

The reverse, though, is as long as they aren't too much of a problem, then they're not actually worth punishing, not unless he's basiclly forced to: he doesn't let Bakugou run wild because he likes him, really, he does it because he doesn't think dealing with him is worth his time, the same way he lets Minoru be a creepy little pervert without really doing anything to make him stop, until he finally crosses the line enough that Eraserhead has to be involved, like by putting a kid in danger. The reason his only comment when he holds Bakugou back that first time is about his dry eye is that honestly, that was all he actually cared about: not that he was attacking other students, but that Bakugou was making him do extra work.

It's why the few times we see him actually deal with a student's problems (that weren't his favorite, anyways) is when he was already doing something else involving them in the first place, because if he's already there, working with them, might as well do this other shit, right?

It's only efficient.

To bring it back to your original point, though, I think part of the reason he's such a hypocrite is he doesn't really reflect on himself, or his actions. While he does think on the past, it's not anything productive, it's just him... wallowing in his grief and self loathing.

The reason Hitoshi was the main focus was because, well, Hitoshi was Eraserhead's main focus, so he wanted him to get a lot of the experience everyone else had been having as fast as possible, and beyond that I don't think he was thinking through the implications beyond that.

I've found a lot of Eraserhead's actions make sense if you ignore everything he says, and instead draw a metaphorical straight line between him and whatever it is that he wants to do. It's not deep, it's just so OOC for a normal thought process that it throws you off.

[justatalkingface]

I'm really starting to spiral this rabbit hole but here it goes.

Did Aizawa really care about Oboro? Or was his death used as a prop to justify why his teaching methods are helpful?

Because let's look at Mic. It's implied through the MHA canon that Mic was friends with Oboro first. Aizawa only knew him for a year. Yet...Mic never made Oboro's death his entire personality.

In fact, he was willing to placate someone who didn't really know Oboro like he did.

And what's even worse, he became the same teacher that let Sensoji off with a slap on the wrist despite the fact he bullied the three of them.

He let Bakugou openly bully Midoriya because of "potential".

I'm going to be honest: Oboro, as the Kurogiri origin story, was some lazy, copy-pasted crap on Hori's part. It's the Obito origin story's beats, but half-assed and kind of lazy. Honestly, it feels so forced at times I wonder when he even decided to do it? Because if Kurogiri was planned as Oboro from the beginning the entire process wouldn't have been executed as badly as it was, and he probably would have made it a bigger, more dramatic thing, rather than a one chapter flashback.

Before that point, I'm not even sure Oboro was a character, at best he was just a name for someone Eraserhead had lost (and I think Kurogiri started talking a lot less after his first couple of appearances... probably because his personality didn't agree with the Oboro concept, so he was made a silent, compliant minion rather than an active person in his own right.) It honestly feels like Kakashi Eraserhead was so popular that Hori ended up scrambling to develop a background for him, before just copying more ninja things.

But that's on the meta-end. On the character end...

Well, his character is absolutely a prop to try and explain away Eraserhead's methods, the same way it was retconned so that he didn't actually expel anyone. That doesn't mean Eraserhead didn't care about him, but...

*shrug* Granted, it's been awhile since I read the spin off, where I'm pretty sure this all was, but... Aizawa wasn't Oboro's friend as much Present Mic was, sure. But. Just because Eraserhead wasn't as open about valuing his friendship, or that he wasn't friends as long, doesn't mean Oboro wasn't important to him. The thing is that Aizawa was a withdrawn, somewhat depressed loner; in all honesty that's exactly the kind of person who probably value's their one or two friends that much more because that's all they have, that these few people are the only ones who actually valued them.

Thing is, because of how withdrawn people like that are, to really convey that right to an audience, you need to go the extra mile to set that up, and I'm not sure Hori really did that.

All of that said, though? Eraserhead became the kind of person that would have kicked out Aizawa, and I don't think Hori really gets how much inherent hypocrisy is baked into Eraserhead. The before/after of him don't really mesh well, and the only way to try and justify it is he just... got worse. Like, constantly. He took the wrong lessons from Oboro's death, and just never stopped getting the wrong lesson after that.

[justatalkingface]

Kinda off topic, but I'm going to point out that the ability to make tech like Iron Man is basiclly a super power in it's own right; like. How the hell does that work? It's always bugged me that MHA has society-altering tech and the entire setting just... sleeps on it. It's just not used, except for heroes, and barely even then, and that's practically a crime with how advanced that stuff is. Like, Mei's super power isn't those zoomy eyes, it's that she can use some metal and circuit boards to somehow violate reality on demand.

People are saying that, with Izuku running on OfA embers, and eventually becoming Quirkless again, it'll "prove" that a Quirkless person CAN be a hero and like... yeah, if they're given the biggest step up in the UNIVERSE, granted broken levels of power to even reach the first step, then consistently break themselves to prove that they are worth something, then sure.

My problem with it all is that it's just so damn mean spirited. One of the core defining traits of Izuku, from the very first chapter, has been his burning desire to be a hero that came over in everything he did, right back to defending children from Bakugou. This kid, who deserves to be a hero more than half the actual pro heroes we see, is barred due to factors beyond his control. And then he's given his wish. He's given everything he ever wanted, a Quirk, friends, his dream... and now it's taken away. It's stripped from him in a plan that he had zero say in (remember when Izuku could think and plan instead of the vestiges doing it for him?), and now Horikoshi doesn't even have the goddamn decency to let him think *anything* about this. How does he feel about having his dream taken away from him?

Eh, he's fine.

Allmight: Is only a hero with a Quirk.

All Might: Stops being a hero without a Quirk.

Izuku: Is a hero with a Quirk.

Izuku: Almost certainly stops being a hero without a Quirk.

...

Yes. Clearly, the moral of the story here is that Quirkless people can be heroes. Surely, nothing about the fact that they only did so when they had a Quirk disproves this argument!

...

Sigh. Like. This whole thing with Izuku is some depressing shit, it really is. It's just... Hori just seems to hate the idea of Izuku being successful. Or happy. Or, really anything that isn't miserable.

If he was going to be such a dick to him, he should have just made Bakugou the protagonist, and saved Izuku the grief.

[justatalkingface]

People are saying that, with Izuku running on OfA embers, and eventually becoming Quirkless again, it'll "prove" that a Quirkless person CAN be a hero and like... yeah, if they're given the biggest step up in the UNIVERSE, granted broken levels of power to even reach the first step, then consistently break themselves to prove that they are worth something, then sure.

My problem with it all is that it's just so damn mean spirited. One of the core defining traits of Izuku, from the very first chapter, has been his burning desire to be a hero that came over in everything he did, right back to defending children from Bakugou. This kid, who deserves to be a hero more than half the actual pro heroes we see, is barred due to factors beyond his control. And then he's given his wish. He's given everything he ever wanted, a Quirk, friends, his dream... and now it's taken away. It's stripped from him in a plan that he had zero say in (remember when Izuku could think and plan instead of the vestiges doing it for him?), and now Horikoshi doesn't even have the goddamn decency to let him think *anything* about this. How does he feel about having his dream taken away from him?

Eh, he's fine.

Allmight: Is only a hero with a Quirk.

All Might: Stops being a hero without a Quirk.

Izuku: Is a hero with a Quirk.

Izuku: Almost certainly stops being a hero without a Quirk.

...

Yes. Clearly, the moral of the story here is that Quirkless people can be heroes. Surely, nothing about the fact that they only did so when they had a Quirk disproves this argument!

...

Sigh. Like. This whole thing with Izuku is some depressing shit, it really is. It's just... Hori just seems to hate the idea of Izuku being successful. Or happy. Or, really anything that isn't miserable.

If he was going to be such a dick to him, he should have just made Bakugou the protagonist, and saved Izuku the grief.

[justatalkingface]

hello! i don't want this ask to come off as mean or targeted at all so please don't take it that way, but i'm confused as to why you're still a my hero fan you don't seem to like the characters or the way that the story is headed, is it just hate watching (uhh,, consuming of media??) at this point? again it's cool if that's what it is, but you talk about the characters like they aren't that in depth, not just bakugou but. the other villains and also izuku too.

you said something about izuku just being happy and content with losing one for all in the new leaks, (in that same post you weren't caught up so i sorta get why you could draw to that conclusion,) but also izuku's character is known for bottling up his emotions.

Izuku's is always happy (even when he's not), the only time we really see him fall apart is his vigilante arc. yes throughout the story he is constantly crying, but again, never in situations that he is really hurt emotionally you know? We get to see his journey and his progress, it's all that he's ever wanted in life, to have a quirk and save people, so when that gets stripped away, he's gonna be a bit gutted no? thats what i think at least. the story started with "this is how i become the worlds greatest hero" but i think it's always been more about what make someone a hero, why people should want to be heros, and their stories behind it. why else create flawed characters like bakugou and shigaraki if not to show all the side of the story?

gosh, sorry didn't mean to write a whole essay, my words tend to get away from me. I would love to see your views once you do catch up tho.

Hmm. Well, I talked about some of my motivations in... that Gaiden post, I think, but if I wasn't OK with ranting, I wouldn't have made this account just to rant.

Why am I still a fan? And as an extended of that, still posting?

Spite.

No, seriously.

Like. When I first started reading MHA, I was amazed. It just felt so... refreshing, so unique; I loved how determined and kind Izuku was, I loved how human All Might was, I liked the variety apparent in the world, how rich it felt, all the potential to it. And then, before my eyes, I watched it rot away, so slowly I didn't even realize what was happening until it was already dead.

I miss what MHA was, and so much of this is... mourning, almost, for what was and could have been.

Also, like I said, spite, because I watched this fester before my eyes and honestly I want to call out each and every wound and point of rot on it's corpse, along with some desire for validation in finding people who agree with me.

'but you talk about the characters like they aren't that in depth, not just bakugou but. the other villains and also izuku too.'

Not... quite sure what you mean here? I think you mean that I think they're done badly? (And I do, so you're not wrong there.)

Alright, see, so I don't disagree with your logic here: Izuku is a mess. Izuku is a mess held together by lack of time (or not being allowed) to process his shit storm of a life and duty. He's gotten everything taken away from him.

He should be pissed. He should be feel destroyed, depressed.

But the keyword here is 'should'. And that is the problem, in a word. Izuku 'should' be upset. He 'should' be depressed.

But historically, things that 'should' happen regarding Izuku just... don't happen. From his abilities, to his opinion on himself, to other people's views on him... what 'should' happen, logically, just doesn't.

Also... let me pose a question:

Do you think Hori is going to end MHA with Izuku withering away from depression? That his friends, one by one, are going to abandon him, because they only ever really liked his Quirk, that his mom is going to die of disappointment of her useless son, that All Might will get killed by a three year old wielding a balloon? And that he'll die early, and the only one to attend his funeral will be Aizawa, out of obligation, and his entire summery of Izuku's life, and the inscription on his grave, will be 'Problem Child'?

Of course not. (Even though I get the feeling that Hori kind of does want that.) If he tried it, the editors would literally kill him. Less dramatically, they just wouldn't print it and make him rewrite it, because they don't want to fuck up the MHA cash cow at the finish line.

I'm not caught up, yet, but for this? I don't have to be. Stories like shonens follow basic structures, like a sort of skeletal system; you may not know the fine details, but you do know some things will happen. And shonens? They always have happy endings. Always. Even if the MC dies, they'll do it willingly, for a Great Cause(TM), and almost certainly go with a smile, and satisfied with their life choices. If it was a manga like Berserk, it would have been up in the air, because Berserk doesn't follow the same narrative rules, and so how it ends and what not are far more open to question than something like this (ignoring that, yes, Berserk ended too).

Fundamentally, MHA will not end with Izuku miserable. It basiclly can't.

That's why I say he'll be content, because he doesn't really have the time to be miserable before MHA finishes up. At worst, he'll have a brief shown moment of sad, because he reaches acceptance, because he won't be allowed to feel otherwise.

(Yeah, this doesn't feel targeted or anything, don't worry about it. If you get something more specific to ask me or whatever, knock yourself out.)

[justatalkingface]

You know, your specific example here is inspiring me to either edit or repost this with, like, more examples and maybe two or three more paragraphs of words, but I've decided not to inflict it upon the world. Instead, I will point out your valid point here.

If society is the reason for the personality of Bakugo, why aren't there more Bakugos in society?

If "strong" quirks turn people into violent a**holes, why aren't Nejire, Tokoyami, Kaminari, and that loud wind quirk guy relatively well-adjusted to social interaction.

The answer is simple: because it isn't society's fault.

Like, don't get me wrong, it didn't help, that's for sure, but Bakugou's problem isn't society, it's that he's a jerk. Bakugou is unironically high on his own brand.

Part of that is how other people treated him, true (though it was happening even before he had a Quirk, so it's not society in the way it's usually used for Bakugou, where it's about his Quirk), because he was cool and competent as a kid, which made the kids praise him, which fed his ego, which made him want to do it more, in a vicious cycle... but even with that, there's still something unique to him that is at fault here; he has a moment where he realizes, basiclly, that he's The Best, TM. That philosophy (because he kept that thought process since he was like, ten), is behind the whole, 'Extra', talk, because he unironically believes that everyone else is an extra in his story.

That's concerning. Unironically, I think that counts as a mental disorder of some form (probably narcissism?), and it also inherently dehumanizes other people... which explains why he's so casual about hurting everyone around them.

And to be blunt? That's a very, very bad thing. Dehumanizing other people is how people are taught that it's OK to hurt others, or even kill them; fundamentally, Bakugou is radicalizing himself against everyone who isn't Bakugou.

If they are less than him, if they are not 'real people', if they are just extras... then it doesn't matter if he hurts them, insults them, because... why would it? It's not like they're actually people, it's not like they're important.

People do horrible, horrible things to NPCs in video games that they would never in a million years do to people in real life. They do it because NPCs don't matter, not like real human beings do.

You can even see it in how he the various flashbacks to when he was a child: in the beginning, he was brash, a bit aggressive, but largely an OK kid. But as time passed, his aggression grew, and his respect for others shrunk. He went from insults (at times probably accidentally), to actively bullying them. He became more and more comfortable not just verbally abusing others, but then physically hurting them. By the time canon starts, Bakugou seemed to treat, and consider, other human beings as barely more than trash.

And then we find out that he was willing, in fact, to kill people.

To be fair, his... radicalization, or just plain assholishness, got noticeably cut back after that point, but if it wasn't for that? Clearly, no one was willing to call him on things before, so if he didn't get serious consequences, and he had killed Izuku? He probably would have grown more and more comfortable with killing, the same way he did with everything else he's done.

But it's more than just that. His parents are... well, they're good people, but... they don't seem to be the best at making their son not be an asshat; both of them were pretty OK with their son calling his mother a 'hag', and not even in a sarcastic, well meaning way, but as an actual insult.

His mom is cut from the same cloth as her son (normally, it'd be the other way around, but Bakugou's character probably came first), if more restrained. Unfortunately, that means she's probably a source of a lot of his more aggressive behaviors in the first place, and not just in a genetic way: he watched what she did, and then learned to do it from her. She tries to get him to stop the worst of it but she doesn't seem to making a serious effort? It's not a serious punishment, or a heart to heart talk about his behavior, it's... basiclly the fan gag, which doesn't really teach anyone anything?

His dad, meanwhile is more passive, grounded, but at the same time: he married Bakugou's mother. He's clearly OK with behavior in that vein. It's good he's not contributing to the problem, but he's not solving it, either.

And, at the end of the day, some it was just Bakugou himself; at some level he was just... born naturally more confident, more violent, in the same way Izuku was born naturally more caring, and more passive.

[justatalkingface]

If society is the reason for the personality of Bakugo, why aren't there more Bakugos in society?

If "strong" quirks turn people into violent a**holes, why aren't Nejire, Tokoyami, Kaminari, and that loud wind quirk guy relatively well-adjusted to social interaction.

The answer is simple: because it isn't society's fault.

Like, don't get me wrong, it didn't help, that's for sure, but Bakugou's problem isn't society, it's that he's a jerk. Bakugou is unironically high on his own brand.

Part of that is how other people treated him, true (though it was happening even before he had a Quirk, so it's not society in the way it's usually used for Bakugou, where it's about his Quirk), because he was cool and competent as a kid, which made the kids praise him, which fed his ego, which made him want to do it more, in a vicious cycle... but even with that, there's still something unique to him that is at fault here: he's told, as a kid, that he has a good Quirk, and he can be a hero with it. This is basic, bog standard encouragement; it's a good Quirk, but he's, what, ten? That woman is probably telling every single kid that their Quirk is great. But Bakugou, though, he hears this, and his mind instantly snaps to a conclusion: he realizes that he's The Best, TM. That he's special, that he's better than everyone else. And that? That's not 'society', that's not the fault of people around him, that's Bakugou's fault, Bakugou's problem.

I'll be honest here, kids are stupid; Bakugou isn't the first kid to have a delusion of grandeur and he's not going to be the last. What makes it different with him, though, is that it's more than just a passing phase. That philosophy, his fundamental superiority, is a train of thought that remains with him for the rest of his life, and not only that, it is a cancerous logic that festers in his mind like a disease.

You know how Bakugou calls everyone else 'Extras'? That's the logical conclusion of his superiority complex, of the idea of that he alone is special, superior, the honored one: because if he's special, what is everyone else? Less then him. An extra in his story. Or, as Shigaraki would put it?

An NPC.

That's concerning. More than that, that is deeply alarming. Unironically, I think that counts as a mental disorder of some form (probably narcissism?), and it also inherently dehumanizes other people... which explains why he's so casual about hurting everyone around them.

And to be blunt? That's a very, very bad thing. Dehumanizing other people is how people are taught that it's OK to hurt others, or even kill them; fundamentally, Bakugou is radicalizing himself against everyone who isn't Bakugou.

If they are less than him, if they are not 'real people', if they are just extras... then it doesn't matter if he hurts them, insults them, because... why would it? It's not like they're actually people, it's not like they're important. They're just extras in The Great Story Of Bakugou. They're just NPCs in the Hero Game he's playing, and nothing else.

People do horrible, horrible things to NPCs in video games that they would never in a million years do to people in real life. They do it because NPCs don't matter, not like real human beings do. Think, for a minute, how you treat the random characters in Fallout or whatever, the nameless mooks you that will always more of, because they will always respawn after whatever you do to them. Think about what would happen if you did that to a real person.

You can even see it in how he acts in the various flashbacks back when he was a child: when he was young, Bakugou was brash, a bit aggressive, but largely an OK kid. But as time passed, his aggression grew, and his respect for others shrunk. He went from insulting people (at times probably accidentally), to actively bullying them. He became more and more comfortable not just verbally abusing others, but then physically hurting them. By the time canon starts, Bakugou seemed to treat, and consider, other human beings as barely more than trash, and Izuku's existence in particular as something like a cosmic mistake he was 'graciously' tolerating.

And then we find out that he was willing, in fact, to kill people. It's very likely that, if driven to a corner, that people may be willing to kill to survive, but that isn't what happened to Bakugou: he was in school. He was unironically playing cops and robbers.

And yet, Izuku's basic unwillingness to just... give up, to just sit back and let someone maim him as much as he wanted is what 'cornered' Bakugou to the point he resorted to overwhelmingly lethal force. He doesn't feel an ounce of guilt about it afterwords, either, and he only stops because he's threatened... with being kicked out of the exercise. He's not even serious about, he's willing to kill someone but he values winning more than his murder attempt, winning at something that's essentially worthless, even. It's an impulse, one that he doesn't ever question or think about again after the fact.

To be fair, his... radicalization, or just plain assholishness, got noticeably cut back after that point (to the point where it seems more like retcon than character development), but if it wasn't for that? Clearly, no one was willing to call him on things before, so if he didn't get serious consequences, and he had killed Izuku? He probably would have grown more and more comfortable with killing, the same way he did with everything else he's done.

But it's more than just that. His parents are... well, they're good people, but... they don't seem to be the best at making their son not be an asshat; both of them were pretty OK with their son calling his mother a 'hag', and not even in a sarcastic, well meaning way, but as an actual insult.

His mom is cut from the same cloth as her son (normally, it'd be the other way around, but Bakugou's character probably came first), if more restrained. Unfortunately, that means she's probably a source of a lot of his more aggressive behaviors in the first place, and not just in a genetic way: he watched what she did, and then learned to do it from her. She tries to get him to stop the worst of it but she doesn't seem to making a serious effort? It's not a serious punishment, or a heart to heart talk about his behavior, it's... basiclly the fan gag, which doesn't really teach anyone anything?

His dad, meanwhile is more passive, grounded, but at the same time: he married Bakugou's mother. He's clearly OK with behavior in that vein. It's good he's not contributing to the problem, but he's not solving it, either.

At the end of the day, while there are contributing factors, not of them are enough to explain, much less justify, Bakugou's actions or personality. Society didn't make him like this. No one taught him that it was OK.

The only one with responsibility was Bakugou himself.

[justatalkingface]

Where Hori went wrong with Bakugou

So, a day or two ago I saw an old reddit post quoting Hori explaining why he started to change Bakugou's character.

(I did't save it, because, 1, I don't really do that, and 2, even if I did... I don't actually attach things to my rants? I'm far too lazy to put the work in to try and do that. So.... My source is that I made it the F@#& up, I guess?)

The gist of it was that when Bakugou lost, he cried, right? That was... apparently a moment Hori realized he could have more depth? And basically, because of that realization, he decided he could give Bakugou more any development, and presumably from that point on decided to make him a more important character.

Alright, I... *sigh*

*deep breath*

Alright. Let's start with this:

Bakugou cried because he lost... and this was Hori's great sympathetic, 'I can fix him' moment? I just... I just... what? Why???

*recalls All Might going out of his way to comfort Bakugou and cheer him up, despite the murder attempt he had done a few minutes ago*

...Was he self-inserting in All Might at that moment then?

....

*deeper breath*

Alright.

So there's that. And beyond that... this is connected to something I mentioned before... I'm not sure Hori really knows how to make bad guys with sympathetic traits?

Like, he can make bad guys. And he can give characters sympathetic traits. But when he tries to do them both at the same time, it's like he can't balance the elements right, because he keeps ignoring a point:

Sympathetic character traits do not make a sympathetic character. But Hori seems to assume they do? So he always ends up making a bad guy, who does bad things, and acts in bad ways, but will have random moments where they act radically different for no apparent reason, and are often treated by people around them like they're not acting in horrifying ways all the time.

Because, like, if I spent my life, like... going out murdering people, but when I got home at the end of the day I was... really nice to my pet hamster Fluffles, or something, that's a sympathetic trait. But that doesn't make me a sympathetic person, because... you know, I'm still a serial killer, Fluffles or not.

The problem isn't that he tried to develop Bakugou, or that he wanted to give him traits against his current characterization, because, well, people are complicated. Everyone is complicated, everyone has depths to them.

The problem is he saw 1 (One) sympathetic trait (or, rather, 'sympathetic', because that moment was literally him just throwing a fit over losing, but OK, Hori, you do you), and instead of either, A, using that trait as a launching point to meaningfully change Bakugou's behavior, or B, keep Bakugou as the same character despite this extra information we received, with other characters acting the same way in response to him since they didn't have that information....

He made a radical third option: where Bakugou wouldn't change his behavior, and yet everyone changed how they treated him as if he had changed, and this is the point where things started to go to shit.

Because there were already concerning things with how Bakugou was being treated before this point, true, but it was.... contained. Manageable. His presence in the story made sense, if was over hyped, and how people treated him was somewhat in line with his actual behavior.

After this point? That started to change, and by the time we hit the Sports Festival, Bakugou was a 'new man' who somehow acted almost exactly the same as he did before, which was a theme that would continue to repeat for the rest of the series.

[justatalkingface]

The Bakugou Experence(TM)

Bakugou: *punches Izuku*

Izuku, starry eyed: "Woow, Bakugou, that was so cool!"

Kirashima: "What a manly punch!"

Eraserhead: *grumbles, but is secretly impressed by how good a punch it was, even though he wants to improve his form a bit*

Shigaraki: *nods* "I can see why you're the one closest to Deku."

All Might: "What good friends they are!"

[justatalkingface]

for an op izuku story. it could even make aizawa’s reaction towards izuku understandable in a way. smart, powerful midoriya who came 1st in the entrance exam by a country mile, who was quick to make friends and those friends call him “Dekiru” because he can do it. maybe he couldn’t see past the shiny quirk whose only weakness is being TOO STRONG of all things. he’d still be childish and ignorant but more realistic i think. i stumbled upon your post from last year about op izuku and i thought it was a great read

You want to know the interesting thing? That's almost canon.

The thing about Aizawa's introduction to us is that he spends the entire time lying: not just at the end, where he says he was never going to expel anyone and the entire thing was a 'logical ruse'; he goes through about three different excuses for why he's even doing this: first, that they're 'too happy', which was always... deeply fucked up.

Then he zeroes in on Izuku and starts on about how uncontrolled his Quirk is, and combined with his reactions watching the them apply it makes it seem like maybe that's the reason... but after awhile All Might chimes in, and Aizawa unconsciously agrees with him, in that he's doing this because Izuku is like All Might.

The fact that he's a pure-blood product of All Might's Plus Ultra philosophy pisses him off so damn much that he goes through all this to find an excuse to try and kick Izuku out, knowing his Quirk control is terrible... and, as I've discussed before, when peak!human Izuku and his super throw outperforms a girl whose only power is invisibility, he fudges the results to put him at the bottom.

Literally, the the Quirk Test 'arc' is build around Aizawa's vendetta at All Might, Plus Ultra, and, as an extension of them, Izuku. And even if Izuku was actually the second coming of All Might, and, like All Might himself, actually able to use the Quirk from the first minute, All Might makes it clear that, no, he couldn't actually stop Aizawa from kicking out Izuku. Even though he's the Number One Hero.

Because Reasons(TM).

For whatever fucking reason, Eraserhead was given an absurd amount of power involving his students, and I don't think there's canonly anything stopping him from kicking out someone he just doesn't like, and the only reason he didn't kick out Izuku was his weird, twisted ethics that said only breaking a finger was such a big improvement he deserved to stay... and then he did nothing with the whole, 'breaking his finger' thing.

I'm not sure on the exact details, I'd need to brain storm it, but in an OP!AU where Izuku was able to actually use his Quirk I could imagine him constantly trying to test Izuku, looking to undermine him with morals and making the right choice in, like, disaster scenarios and what not (you know, that thing we had implied for five seconds before Shigaraki showed up), trying to make Izuku make the 'wrong' choice so he could have a 'good' reason to expel him, since once upon a time that shit actually mattered.

Have you read Ao No Exorcist? The way Rin was treated always pissed me off, and the fact that pretty much everyone did it kinda drove me away, but that kind of attitude is exactly what I'd imagine for this, where Eraserhead wasn't narratively made the Best Teacher and Izuku was allowed to be great, an attitude of constantly having to earn his place, again and again and again, and passing whatever the most recent test isn't proof that he's 'worthy', but that he's just barely making the absolute minimum.

You know, that, or just the energy Sir Nighteye had in general.

(Fuck Sir Nighteye.)

[justatalkingface]

I find Endeavor giving up on Toya once he found out that his son's quirk (Blueflame) was self-destructive to be, not only out-of-character, but incredibly stupid.

Endeavor is loaded, he bought Rei. Why not buy Toya special support gear costume with cooling? Aoyama's belt, Mirio's suit, and f*cking Mecha Might basically suggest that support gear can do anything as long as the plot demands it.

Besides that, has Endeavor literally never heard of endurance training? That's literally the only type of training Class 1A does most of the time. Just have Rei on standby if anything goes wrong. It's not like being a human cooler would be the most degrading thing she's suffered.

It's like the first time Aizawa criticized Deku for injuring himself with One for All. Did they try thinking of solutions before trying to get them to give up ?

Also, it's kind of messed that Toya's inability fulfill Endeavor's goals is because Rei, the bought mother. It could've easily been Endeavor's fault, like his intense training at a young age ruined Toya's developing body.

OK, you see, the thing is you're thinking about this logically. Like, Endeavor has been many things, but 'rational' isn't one of them. Deeply toxic and twisted, on the other hand?

You need to think like someone desperate to prove themselves, filled with about eight superiority and inferiority complexes, and yet so resigned to his own inferiority that he ended up needing to make someone else to do it for him. The fact that Toya hurt himself? It meant he was weak. That's it. He was weak for being unable to use his powers safely.

And the second he was weak, he was no longer useful, because he could no longer beat All Might.

(Nevermind, of course, that there was nothing he could do to make someone able to beat All Might, because All Might and All For One are both setting breaking hacks that single handedly break the balance of power. Even a super Shoto with the blue flames of Dabi and, like, absolute zero ice, perfectly balanced and able to withstand his own power, would get casually bitchslapped by All Might. That's how overwhelmingly broken he is.)

Beyond that, it's worth pointing out that, 1, Mecha Might is, again, setting breaking bullshit, even in the bullshit casually tinkertech setting that is MHA, and that 2, while Quirk training is a thing (presumably that's how Dabi was able to be as high functioning as he was with his... well, entire everything, that he grinded with his Quirk until he was able to work beyond the pain), there are limits without Awakenings... and let's be honest, Awakenings are just how Hori tried to explain people's various power ups to try and keep them relevent in the ever increasing clusterfuck of his story. No amount of training would make it so that Toya would not burn himself; training like that increases limits, but it doesn't change how the Quirk works.

There's basiclly no reason, in setting, for someone not to suit themselves entirely in support tech to be a purely tech driven hero, beyond institutional culture that is built around people's Quirks. I can't even say it's expensive, because hell, Mei just pulls them out on the regular, and there's every reason to think she was making them even before she actually got into UA, instead of somehow learning to make them within a week or two of getting into school.

The fact that support tech is so damn underused is almost criminal, especially for people with more limited abilities; can you imagine if Kirashima, with his hardening, was given some kind of ranged tool? An air blast or something?

You're also ignoring all his complexes in implying that, 1, Rei could do anything, when literally she only exists to be a breeder, and I don't think he's ever shown imagining her able to do... anything helpful.

And, most importantly, 2: Endeavor always blames everyone but himself. Always. Even in the 'canon' (I have opinions on the sheer level of retcon there) version of events, with how soft that is on Endeavor, Endeavor sets up Toya to have a psychotic break. He isolates him, orients his entire life around one thing (surpassing All Might) and then takes away the very foundation he built his life on, before basiclly ignoring him and never trying to fix him afterwords; of course the kid is messed up! Yet, all this time, he looks back, and all he can think is, 'I couldn't stop him! Toya was so driven, Toya wouldn't stop hurting himself, Toya wouldn't listen to me!'

Toya, Toya, Toya. Everything wrong with Dabi's story was blamed on Toya, even though he was an actual child and Endeavor was the one with all the control in the family; his recollection of things was so warped you could see how it contracted with literally everyone's experience of events... Of course he was going to blame Rei over himself! Rei is the person he bought, and he's the top hero, rich and famous! Nothing is ever his fault!

(Also, I have opinions on Aizawa, and they're overwhelmingly negative. The fact that Aizawa wanted to ditch Izuku first thing is a result of his overwhelming biases and prejudices..... exactly like Endeavor. MHA has this thing of making massively biased authority figures that are obviously so and then going through fire to protect them from their own actions.)

[justatalkingface]

New leaks are out

Izuku loses One for All. The one thing he wanted in life was to be a hero, and we all know Horikoshi wouldn’t let him be one without a Quirk. He got One for All for a year and change and then it just gets taken away from him.

It’s so mean-spirited

*siiiiigh*

This shit. This shit is why I'm reluctant to catch up.

Worst thing is, this has been broadcasted as coming for awhile, because that MHA movie? Hero Rising, or whatever, the one where Izuku hands over OFA? If you believe (random shit I found on the internet) (which... admittedly, seems sus, I'm not sure of the validity) that was apparenlty supposed to be the original ending.

(Never mind that Bakugou only came into prominence after MHA got rolling, so unless he was forking it over to... I don't know, Shigaraki, or Uraraka, or Shoto (... my god, imagine the look on Endeavor's face if his anti-All Might child gained All Might's power and became his defacto heir, that'd be amazing) or something, that's already a different ending than the 'original' ending.)

That said, that rumor seems pretty damn validated now, doesn't it? I really don't get why Hori seems to hate his own character so damn much, because the first couple of chapters he seemed to like him well enough; the narrative respected him, he made sense, there was a steady build up of confidence and ability... and then he just... lost all interest, and just seemed to include him more and more grudgingly every time he showed up.

Considering how often the main character had to show up, it really feels like Hori built quite a grudge over the years. And between how damn hard Izuku has been side lined in every possible way, and how much Bakugou is being thrown into the spotlight, this really isn't surprising, all things considered.

A good deal of manga like to end with 'main character is brought down to normal', and honestly I've never liked it; I can only think of one where it was really done well, where I liked the ending (the main character never wanted it in the first place, he always wanted to be normal), and even in setting it only works because shonen manga in general love the 'secret world hidden from the rest of society' bit, so they can 'retire' gracefully to being a normal person without any issues (beyond probable PTSD), but in MHA they can't even do that, because there isn't a hidden world; Izuku is world famous, and without powers I'd honestly expect some random psycho to revenge kill him to get some fame, like that Ending guy.

(...I hate that that doesn't seem impossible still?)

Moreover, big part of that kind of build up is that the character has grown up, and doesn't need the super powers any more, to save the world from the world ending threat, to live the chunnibyo dream of being special instead of being part of society, but being a hero is a job, a career he can do for most of his life and make money in. The super police are still needed, because as far as I can tell, the overarching problems haven't been resolved at all. Just like how Naruto ended up, status quo is god, and the normal that was once terrible and to be fought against is good and just.

And, of course, he's just going to be happy about it, too, I know he is. That's how this kind of thing goes. He's going to be happy about losing everything he's always wanted, even though his friends (which he only got from being heroes) are still going to be heroes, even though Bakugou is almost certainly going to be number one at this point (speaking of which; whatever happened to the 'this is how I became the greatest hero' bit? Let me guess, he'll be referred to that somewhere, and that'll be it.)

He's going to be happy and content with what he was allowed to have (and even though he'll never be able to truly realize it, it is allowed, it's that Hori will allow him this much), and will never dream of wanting anything more. Just like an abused spouse in a truly fucked up marriage that has accepted that this is the 'best' they're going to ever get.

[justatalkingface]

I'll admit-

I'm afraid to catch up. Everything I'm seeing about the later chapters are... special. Deeply alarming, but honestly not surprising? In the worst of ways. Honestly, I'm just counting it as a win Izuku is apparently still alive... if he's actually still alive.

I know what I must do, I know that I'm strong enough, but man, I really don't want to.

[justatalkingface]

Hi there,

I'd love to know your ideas and opinion on Hori going out of his way to make Bakugou the second OFA user as it was shown in the movie. Are you a fan of it?

This post has aged badly because of how long it's been sitting in my inbox, but... well, I was the one who did that, so that's my own fault.

Hahahahahah, yeah, wow, sweet flying fuck no. In a series that has been escalating in how many bad decisions they've made lately, that is one of the worst. More than that, it is telling, in this deeply concerning way, about how little Hori seems to like his own main character.

I've never watched the movie, and I have no desire to, because I'm pretty sure all that'd happen if I did would be me spending the entire movie picking out plot holes than anything, but I have done some basic research on it, and my impression is that it's very... Naruto filler-movie-y, where the protagonists get Random Power up that is basically never spoken of again (note that this is basically official confirmation of Bakugou's promotion), the same general kind of big fight sequence where both of them work together, etc.

It's just... it's just shallow, though, is the thing. At least the filler Naruto movies had the basic decency to make up whatever power up they used and threw away; here Izuku is taking one of the foundational parts of the entire story and just.... giving it away. All of his emotional attachment to it, as a Quirk, as his Quirk, as part of a legacy connecting him to All Might, One For All, and what is singlehandedly keeping him in his current place in society (since at this point he wasn't allowed to be smart anymore), and he just throws it away to Bakugou.

And then, to top it off, it just comes back to him. Some Fucking How(TM). And, because this is, again, one of the foundational parts of the fucking story, that just leaves... so many questions. So many.

Like. If the Quirk could yeet itself from hosts it doesn't like, could AFO ever really take it? Or would it Yeet Thyself from his body, and presumably take a copy of AFO with it in the process (and doesn't that mean, since there was that nod to this happening in canon, that Izuku should have Explosion now? That he literally, by Hori's own logic, has taken that fundamental core of Bakugou's character, and should be in the perfect place to invalidate his entire, badly managed and over all atrocious 'character arc'?).

Really, the more I think on this, the more I realize that that is proof that, not only was Explosion drastically warped to contort to Hori's whims, but so was OFA; OFA, originally, was just supposed to support Izuku, as an assistance to his character, but as time passed, it became clear that that was no longer true, and Izuku only existed to assist OFA. And no, I'm not even talking about the actual person, I'm talking about the set of powers Izuku's entire purpose in the story had been reduced to helping display on demand.

And the fact that, looking at it with that symbolism in mind, that movie's ending was a perfectly horrible encapsulation of what happened in the overall story, of Izuku handing his entire self identity over to Bakugou, for him to take and use however the hell he wanted.

...Fuck, that's depressing. Really, honestly, I wonder why the hell Izuku even exists. Seriously. It's clear that Hori doesn't want him, and he wants all the good Izuku things to go to Bakugou; there's plenty of manga and anime with an asshole of a main character, although a lot of early things would have to be changed to explain how that'd work...

I wonder, but I actually know that answer: beyond needing a more acceptable hero, beyond changing plans, having Bakugou as the focus the way Izuku was would, A, put a spotlight on the traits of him Hori clearly wanted to avoid doing, and B, would put more pressure on Hori to make Bakugou change in way he so clearly wasn't allowed to do, to make the reality of him match up with the narrative version so many people love (You could argue that Izuku, in a similar place, stopped changing after awhile, but at the same time his complete lack of growth is the main reason why the people stopped liking him anymore, because he stopped feeling like a person, and one of the major reasons the second half of the story became so overwhelmingly shit, to the point even people just casually enjoying the story on a surface level read couldn't miss; combining that clusterfuck with Bakugou's shit characterization is probably the only reason Hori didn't just... have Izuku die at some point so Bakugou could flat out replace him, along with shallow nods to their 'rivalry' (like this movie!) to help the story sell).

...I've gotten off topic. So, to sum up: No. No, I hate it, it's terrible, I'm glad I've never had to actually watch it happen.