#the les miserables musical

[darkwing-ramblings]

Christianity and the portrayal of it through The Bishop and The Thenardier's from the Les Miserables musical

@stellavesperis

"Hmm I’m happy to share where I stand on religion in how it relates to its presence in les miserables later but putting it into words shall be a separate message I think to properly give it space to breathe and see what I end up coming up with."

My previous pledge.

"(For the record, my personal views on religion are rather all over the place at the moment, I'm queer but I grew up Christian, so it's taking some time for me to reconcile the two, but it's important to me that I do reconcile them and I don't let someone's beliefs get in the way of my own. I'm not quite as firm as my posts may have made me seem, but those headcanons were really something I needed to hear that day and a step in the right direction for me :)"

Your own prefacing. This is extremely reasonable and I have no intention of trying to impede the process- religion at an individual belief level is after all something extremely finicky and weighted with so many considerations that any attempt to by anyone is also nearly doomed I imagine. It reads like discussions of religion outside of pointed context is still fine to attempt thus I shall continue with my post and it's up to you if it's a conversation you find interesting or useful enough to participate in?

Well, that was long.

Religion and me, myself and I and an important disclaimer

The subheading needed to contain my own greatly abbreviated preface (message me directly if you want the whole thing, I'd be happy to share more specifics there but won't derail n a public post to quite that extent).

I myself am not a believer in any particular faith or divine higher power and have been raised as such, but a couple of people in my family happen to be religious so I have some experience with Christians in that setting as well as a few friends who have at some point also believed. I have always admired the solace belief in the afterlife etc can allow with its structured framework in helping individuals navigate the world and hold no ill will towards anyone for such beliefs. I think the freedom to practice or not practice a religion is incredibly important as is never assuming a "default" and "normal" category for someone to fall into.

There are undeniably issues with religion as an organised institution that holds power today and has done historically. However, I won't go further into it here beyond clarifying my ability to reconcile both that institutional pressure pushing interpretations of beliefs/faith/the divine can cause harm to those in a religious community and outside of it and that as with any group chriastians (or any religious folks) are not a monolith even sub-denomination who all share the same views.

The Bishop

Is a supporting character with whom the story would not exist as it does- the role both his belief in redemption and mercy and the importance of empathy towards his fellow man is the lynchpin of facilitating Valjean's journey to inner peace. His internalisation of Christianity contributes to his willingness to offer second chances and more directly to the power he is bestowed by the church to follow through with that desire into action.

His unashamed kindness and prioritisation of the tenet that everyone has a soul and the right to a personal relationship with a forgiving god no matter their circumstance is fascinating and reaches the same conclusion that a secular person may also reach of "every life has value" extremely pleasingly.

Frankly, I rather appreciate that a character who's so unabashedly good is in the musical and who saves Valjean from spiralling despair as a rather saintly paragon. I also think that his religion greatly informs how he reached where he is but that it does not detract from him as a person just being like that too. For all religion gave him the structured path to help others through charity etc it itself as a system of belief is not necessarily the entirety of his character and I believe in any life where he could make circumstances work getting by he would be a good man.

So Monsieurs you may release him For this man has spoken true I commend you for your duty May God's blessing go with you. But remember this, my brother See in this some higher plan You must use this precious silver To become an honest man By the witness of the martyrs By the Passion and the Blood God has raised you out of darkness I have saved your soul for God!

The passage comes after Valjean attempts theft for the second time and is once again found out by the police and dragged back for The Bishop to confirm it. The Bishop notably is acting against the laws of the society without any moral qualm in his offering mercy here, even as he thanks the policemen for doing their job as the agents of the law not makers of it.

But, more interestingly, while "God's blessing" and an unrelenting faith in everyone having a "soul "worth leading to the light again are invoked and The Bishop speaks on behalf the divine as he knows it he also calls Valjean "brother". Now "brother" recognises Valjean as his fellow man, a fellow child of God sure but also just as another person capable of change which again is a stance I believe he could have reached with or without structured faith. It is just religion that gives him such unflinching conviction in his view of the world as it is and culturally ensures that the policemen respect him as a community figure of importance and take his word as a witness for it immediately despite the shakiness of Valjean's tale that is only afterwards and in the moment made true of the silver being a "present".

Thenardier

Also claims to be Christian, as does his wife, with a rather different portrayal from the musical regarding their self professed faith.

Thenardier is a thoroughly nasty character, a career criminal who: cheats on his wife, threatens his own daughter, runs his legitimate inn shadily, overcharges customers when he has a legitimate business, isn't above violent crime, loots corpses and runs pre-mediated cons that the police can never quite catch him out on. In his and his wife's one act of almost decency agreeing to fostering Cosette for money that's not not a rip off of Fantine they show themselves to be extremely negligent about actually looking after her, using her as essentially slave labour and insulting her and her mother to Cosette's face. It's just awful, particularly when Thenardier's wife at least is shown to be capable of being alright when it contrasts with how she treats a young Eponine.

The implications are that they don't actually believe in God in any way that's real and not an act, which I'm not all that fond of on its own as the only characters more or less explicitly shown to do so.

In Look Down there's lines that mirror Thenardier's later ones in the sewer commenting that where there is great suffering God clearly can't be there or listening though I suppose so it as a reflection of harshness which Thenardier willingly engages with not on atheists being less moral is a possibility. Turning also has some sense of the lack of hope being what drives character's to losing faith in the face of hardship that it doesn't villainise the grieving for.

[CONVICT TWO] I've done no wrong! Sweet Jesus, hear my prayer!

[PRISONERS] Look down look down, Sweet Jesus doesn't care

(Look Down)

It's a world where the dog eats the dog Where they kill for bones in the street And God in His Heaven He don't interfere 'Cause he's dead as the stiffs at my feet I raise my eyes to see the heavens And only the moon looks down The harvest moon shines down!

(Dog Eat Dog)

WOMAN SEVEN Same old story. What's the use of tears?

WOMAN FIVE What's the use of praying if there's nobody who hears?

ALL Turning, turning, turning, turning, turning Through the years.

(Turning)

But I do appreciate how Thenardier saying the right words and presenting as faithful to the Christian church etc is a tool that he abuses and gets away with as a way to bring in some criticism on how it can function as a tool to hurt people and not face consequences, regardless of whether individuals such as Valjean and Marius call him or his wife out.

[MADAME THÉNARDIER] That would quite fit the bill If she hadn't so often been ill Little dear, cost us dear Medicines are expensive, Monsieur Not that we begrudged a sou It's no more than we Christians must do

(The Bargain)

Lip service to compassion which contrasts rather well to The Bishop and particularly his acting as an individual to show Valjean mercy rather than on any established policy.

THENARDIER So it goes, heaven knows Life has dealt me some terrible blows.

MME. THENARDIER You've got cash and a heart You could give us a bit of a start!

(Wedding Chorale)

As for you, take this too! God forgive the things that we do.

Marius following punching Thenardier up with that is also funny, as a personal note.

We know where the wind is blowing Money is the stuff we smell. And when we're rich as Croesus Jesus! Won't we see you all in hell!

(Beggars at the feast)

This suggests its more their focus on the present life being comfortable than about disbelief in the afterlife outright but it's up in the air.

In conclusion

Religion adds fascinating layers to characters and their dynamics when integrated into a story and explored as a theme but for me it works best when there's multiple representations of it all that enrichen the complexity of issues.

I also enjoy the differences in how belief in a possible divine power manifests in affecting characters as its all still individual reactions.

I shall eventually get around to working on a Valjean and Javert one plus the finale and Fantine at possibly a separate and later point, I'll see.

I would be happy to hear anything of your own you have to say or add or disagree or agree with here, @stellavesperis, or whoever jumps in if they're suitably polite!

[trashpidgeon48]

Leitmotifs drive me insane, like I hear *repeated melody that has an association with a person, idea, or situation* and I go *tears up the fucking rug like a dog*

[toffyrats]

[shiftythrifting]

I'm still actively shopping but I had to submit this immediately.

Wethersfield, CT Savers.

[musicalmoritz]

I will never understand how some ppl have such little imagination that they can’t even suspend their disbelief long enough to watch a musical without asking why the characters are singing

[johnadamsbignaturals]

the end of les mis is so fucking good. like, yeah we just turned this whole ending around from a feeling of tragedy and profound loss to one of hope, interconnectedness, and an understanding that the bounds of human love and the innate bonds in the rich tapestry that our lives are woven together into exceed even death. that loss will not stop the future, because the memories of those who dreamed of change will always live on. and this all is achieved in like 20 seconds before credits roll.

[isl0e]

ok, little rant about a use of a leitmotif in les mis that i think has slipped under most people's radars!

so you the know the police leitmotif? the "tell me quickly what's the story/who saw what and why and where/let him give a full description/let him answer to javert!" tune that appears whenever somebody gets arrested?

now turn your ear to javert's suicide, specifically the "i am reaching but i fall/and the stars are black and cold" part. it took me a while to notice, but this whole section of the song is just a snippet of the arrest leitmotif:

but he never completes it. the snippet repeats and repeats. try as he might, he finds himself unable to sing the same old song of Justice and Law and Righteousness and Order. he's like a jammed cassette player spitting out the same second of music over and over and over and over again, unable to follow his old ways, but unable to let them go. he's stuck, but he will keep throwing himself against the walls of the cage.

javert is desperately trying to run on his old tracks of thought, but, as vicky h puts it, he experiences "the derailment of a soul, the shattering of an integrity irresistibly propelled in a straight line and dashed against God".

: )

[nopeemi]

based on the hungarian les mis production with szaszák zsolt as enjolras i saw last weekend, specifically inspired by the begginning of one day more where each character stood under harsch spotlight and i wanted to scream

[bam-bo0zle]

Drawing by me, thank you @thegreatgaygay for the idea

original below cut:

[gwydpolls]

Time Travel Question 67: Assorted Performances VI

These Questions are the result of suggestions from the previous iteration.

This category may include suggestions made too late to fall into the correct grouping.

Please add new suggestions below if you have them for future consideration.

[caitlin-snow-leopard]

Things Theatre Kids Are Uncomfortably Knowledgeable about

The consorts of King Henry VIII

The American Revolution

The June Uprising of 1832

The Newsboy Strike of 1899

Presidential assassinations

Attempted Presidential assassinations

The Barrow Gang

[lesmiserabelles]

djavan van de fliert as enjolras / west end live 2024

[trashpidgeon48]

Musicals are time loops. Every night, the same thing happens except for a few minor differences. It always ends the same. If you want the characters to do something different or to make better choices, too bad. The actors are bound by the script and the score. The only way for the time loop to end is for the show to close. But you (the audience) don't want the show to close, nor do the actors who would like to be employed. It's a lose/lose situation. For the actors, audience, technicians, and for the characters, who are forever stuck in the same stretch of time.

[avalaryx]

he only interrupted him like a gazillion times

[mysoulsickened]

and now, my favourite image ever

[fruity-pontmercy]

Happy Barricade day everybody :))) this is just a part of a larger drawing im working on, but it’s taking me more time than I wanted so, have it here in the meanwhile :))