#the fandom will talk about everything but how armand looks at louis

[burythebonesincoldwater]

"There was no love there"

EXPLAIN. THIS. THEN.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Hi Nalyra, how are you? I hope you’re having a great day.

I only joined the iwtv fandom after s2 aired and I’m so happy I found it. I am however very confused by the level of Lestat hate though. I understand that 1x05 was a big deal for the fandom. What I don’t understand is how they’re still holding onto that but can ignore everything Armand stands for and has done. The Lestat hate also spills over into downplaying Sam’s performance which is maddening. I should’ve know, I’ve been on this hell site for way too long. The obsession with Armand in this fandom is just so huge (He killed Claudia, brainwashed and emotionally manipulated Louis for 80 years, no?) I don’t mean that I want everyone to hate Armand. I just feel like I missed something joining the fandom so late. (I’m strictly talking show here)

I thought I’d ask your insight cause I love reading your answers and take on things.

Hey nonny,

so... the way I see it, the very long hiatus between s1 and s2 made parts of the fandom believe that Lestat is the "big bad abuser white demon™"... because 1x05 and the "we had to kill Lestat" is what stuck in people's brains, and was left to fester for almost two years. People who doubted the tale were accused of being racists and abuse apologists, people who pointed out that Loumand might not be the big true romance the same.

The official podcast host called Armand "so much more healthy" for Louis, and some people took that for the truth, and not for the opinion of someone (who had also obviously not read the books). They literally ignore what Armand did for decades, choosing to go on and on about the big bad abuser, and "patriarchal domination", as they have been fed by the tale, never ever taking the step back to look at the tale, and that we know that it has been tinkered with, as Assad called it.

Hating Lestat was seen as the morally correct response, and certain people reflected that belief unto other fans, accusing them of what they faulted the fictional characters for.

This need to morally justify liking or watching is relatively recent in fandom and it is extremely futile for the VC and therefore IWTV.

They‘re all terrible and monsters by our standards.

Giving a more nuanced portrait of Lestat as built on the books brought me a lot of hate and accusations on my fics.

Certain parts of the fandom have also convinced themselves that the show is not at all based on the books, despite the show returning to all emotional main points, and the writers and creators posting their tagged books for all to see.

They have convinced themselves that Lestat, the main character of the VC, will not be that, but will be the abuser throughout, portrayed to be the antagonist.

To be honest, I wish them good luck.

You... are coming in to a more complete picture, and S3 will then add more to it still.

And I'm glad for it!

I am glad that the fans coming in after s2 might be more... chill about some things, because some things have already been clarified.

I hope they are.

I‘m glad you enjoy it here 🥰

I would advise to block freely, and to ... keep the long hiatus in mind, and where this came from, maybe. It might be easier to understand.

As it is, and going by the s3 trailer, and what the writers posted, and what has been stated already.... well, they are keeping quite close to the books.

And with that the very thing Rolin Jones has already stated will happen - namely Lestat taking (quote!) “the show hostage“ - and (quote!!) “setting the story straight“.

Sam and Jacob are co-leads after all, the show built on Loustat.

Some people seem to love to forget that.

[island-in-the-shadows]

The Finale, the Devil, His Minion & His Turning

Before I begin, let me state with clarity that I am not an expert in book lore. I’m, at best, semi-pro. I, however, do my due diligence when it comes to my passions and my hyperfixations and this has been one that has stuck around for most of my life. So, I wanted to weigh into the whole Devil’s Minion situation as pertains to how S2 ended as well as implications for the future of it combined with the bits and pieces of things we’ve heard RJ etc say regarding it. I know this is all a big kerfuffle one way or the other. I’m writing this mostly for myself, but I wanted to share with anyone who wants to read because fandom metas are fun even if we disagree with parts of them or even the whole of them. So, disclaimer aside, strap in for this very long post…

Let's talk about Devil's Minion and the implications of the Season 2 finale.

First things first, let’s discuss Daniel Molloy. He’s a difficult guy and I get why there’s a bunch of people who dislike him even though I can’t relate. I love him. I love that he’s a sassy loudmouth who has even louder opinions and can be horribly inappropriate. I love that, when he’s doing his thing, he’s like a dog with a bone and he won’t let go. I love that he has suffered for it because the consequence of being a dog with a bone, of having an addictive personality, of having sarcasm and sass as a defence mechanism, and of having a truly atrocious sense of self-preservation is that he got fucked up by vampires, blew up his life, “destroyed two marriages,” and “fucked up two daughters.” He’s not the character that people who want to black/white moralise this show can point to as a bastion of “goodness,” even if he was, until recently, the only human main character. In fact, it’s precisely because he was human that it made sense that he was a fucked up person. After all, all humans have their good and bad aspects. 

And then, he was turned (offscreen so that people like me can shout manically into the void). I LOVE that he was turned. I’ll get into the larger implications of it later but, for now, I want to explain why I enjoy Vampire Daniel.

For a bit of background, here’s what we know about his book counterpart in broad strokes: he smokes, he interviews Louis in San Francisco, he published Interview with the Vampire anonymously, he went to NOLA searching for Lestat but found Armand instead, cue here everything that has to do with the 12 years in which he and Armand were what they were together, he’s an ash blonde with violet eyes, he’s an addict, he’s a sarcastic loudmouth, he’s morbid, he went mad, he liked building miniature cityscapes, he spent most of the years of his madness (and some after he regained his sanity) with Marius, he and Armand reunite after +- 25-30 years of separation. That’s it. There’s a lot about him that you can certainly infer in the limited page amount where you can read about him, but that’s about it. We especially don’t get to know much about him after he is turned aside from when he got the vampire zoomies at Lestat’s concert and Maharet’s compound, his madness, Marius, his cityscapes, and his reunion with Armand.

Seeing Daniel Molloy be a vampirically amplified version of himself BY himself is, to me, extraordinary. Here, he’s, technically, unconnected to any of the other vampires and is standing on his own two feet. He chose to publish the book with his name on it (which is fucking insane when you think about it), he’s the one choosing to “call” Louis every week to check in on his bestie, he’s the one choosing to comment on some guys headphones before he eats him. In scant minutes we were presented with the vampire Daniel as an individual. This, in many ways, outdoes how he exists as a vampire in the books where he is never truly disconnected from one of two well-known vampires: Armand, and Marius. 

Secondly, we seldom, if ever, get a vampire in live-action film or TV who looks 60+ in mortal years who, by design, is a sexy swaggering sarcastic menace who wears a leather jacket, an AC/DC tee, and cunty sunglasses. I racked my brain trying to find other vampires who look “older” in human years and even asked friends to help me and, ultimately, came to the following list of best examples (but feel free to tell me more): Gary Oldman in Dracula who is made to look creepy before he gets de-aged in order to be “sexy,” Bill Nighy as Viktor in Underworld, who looks great and powerful, but he’s the villain and he’s not technically designed to inspire anything more than loathing, and Viago’s long-lost lover in What We Do in the Shadows, Katherine ( from which we get the fun Viago being a cradle snatcher meme). This is all my opinion, but it’s fantastic to have a man in his 70s with wrinkles and grey hair be turned into a vampire and be framed as desirable and powerful. Personally, I want to see more vampires who are adults and older adults vs consistently seeing teens and people in their early twenties.

That being said, as much as I love Daniel being a man/vampire in his seventies, this fact alone upends one of the major beats of the relationship between him and Armand as written in Queen of the Damned. The part that is irreparably changed has nothing to do with Daniel’s age because that is irrelevant to Armand who, in book canon, wanted Daniel to live a mortal life, much to Daniel’s chagrin. He even tells Daniel, “Don’t you realise that any one of us would give it up for one human lifetime?”

Daniel doesn't believe him but their arguments regarding mortality only have a level of resolution in 1985 when Armand turns a dying Daniel. What changes here is twofold: the first is that Akasha did not wake from her sleep (which tracks with the timeline of the show thus far, as she wakes up because of Lestat’s music and she ruins the world tour). The second is that, presuming that Daniel and Armand had a past in the 70s and 80s, which is very likely, Armand let Daniel go. Armand letting Daniel go is a HUGE change. Yes, part of him likely let Daniel go because he was still involved with Louis whereas in the book he didn’t have a partner at the time. However, presuming that Armand and Daniel’s relationship in the 70s and 80s was as codependent and obsessive as it was in the source material, letting this one mortal boy go was arguably one of the most emotionally difficult things Armand has ever had to do. It changes a whole host of things in their dynamic moving forward. 

This is why the fact that so many are turning on it now after 2x8 is a little baffling to me. I am a pessimist at heart, especially when it comes to things like this because I have been burned time and time again. It’s been a shock to me that so many who were rock solid on this after 2x5 are now panicking. And yet, I understand the concerns. 

For example, according to Louis and later repeated in interviews by Rolin and sort of by Assad, Daniel was turned out of “spite.” Assuming that this is true, it is devastating. In the source lore, Daniel was turned out of love. Armand tells Daniel he’ll turn him “[…]because I am a coward. And I love you too much to let you go.” Except, in the show’s universe, Armand has already let Daniel go once even if it wasn't because Daniel was dying. Then again do we know if the younger Daniel was dying? If he overdosed once or multiple times? No. But at some point, Armand let him go. At some point, Daniel’s memory of whatever time he spent with Armand was erased. Presuming that something like this happened, that act alone was not out of spite.

Further, it is Louis who said Daniel was “burdened out of spite.” Except Monsieur du Lac has a very particular perspective and is currently quite cross with his ex. Those words, if I may borrow from book Armand, “That’s Louis’ language.” Note that while Daniel retorts, “Make it up to me. We’ll do a follow-up book,” this comes after Louis says “I shouldn’t have left you alone with him.” Daniel neither confirms or denies that he was made out of spite. He’s, to some extent, assuaging Louis’ guilt while segueing to try to get something he wants from Louis. We didn’t see Daniel being turned so we can’t be certain where it happened or when it happened or why it happened. 

I know you’re probably reading this and going: but Rolin said they wouldn’t build the Dubai set again! Rolin said we won’t see the turning! Rolin said it was out of spite! Yes, fellow tumblrina, I know. But, like Claudia’s journals, like Louis’ or Armand’s narration of events across both seasons, anyone working on the show would have cause to obfuscate, omit, or lie. After all, was it not Rolin who also said we weren’t getting Rockstar Lestat when we are, in fact, getting Rockstar Lestat? Ah! That, my friends, is an unreliable witness.

Any creator can lie about their work for whatever reason they see fit including marketing or trying to keep spoilers away. To use a recent example, Andrew Garfield consistently and frequently lied that he was not in Spiderman: No Way Home. Oh, there was a set leak picture? No, that wasn’t him it was a double. He kept that party line until the movie came out, regardless if people knew or not. Same thing applies here and it creates doubt. The tricky part of this all is that, because Season 3 is The Vampire Lestat, it’s likely that anything we do see regarding Daniel and Armand will be quite limited. 

Another thing that truly frustrates longtime Devil’s Minion girlies, especially those who have religiously read the Devils Minion chapter (really, it’s the only thing we have to go off of because Anne Rice put Daniel on a shelf and never really took him off it except in vague mentions in other vampires’ stories and, I guess, she wanted us to go fuck ourselves because Daniel is basically a negative footnote in The Vampire Armand) is the implication that Daniel wants to know where the fuck his maker is because he has been abandoned. We keep thinking: Armand would never abandon a newly turned Daniel. I’ve seen plenty of posts and some fics fully assuming that Armand turned Daniel in the penthouse and then left him right then and there. Which tracks only if he were being made out of spite. Except, at this time, we simply do not know that that is the case. Likewise, we do not know that Armand immediately abandoned Daniel. 

Why are we assuming this? Because Louis says he left them alone? He did but, he also told Daniel to get his things because he’d “arrange a car and a plane to take you home”. With Louis’ money and power, he could’ve had Daniel on a plane to JFK in, tops, an hour. If we want to suppose that it was out of spite, then Louis just left Daniel alone with Armand right away? Louis didn’t change his clothes or pack a bag or grab a wallet to go to NOLA? He had his Amex with him at the hotel and he was wearing different clothes, so there is time unaccounted for in Dubai. Then we have to suppose that a newly turned and abandoned Daniel was alone or eating staff in the penthouse despite being expected on a flight that was probably private, because Louis wouldn’t have done it by half measure if he wanted Daniel out of there ASAP. Then we have to consider the amount of time that Louis was supposedly in NOLA. How long would it have taken him to go to NOLA, have his reunion with Lestat, wait out a hurricane, come back and find a fucked up Daniel in that penthouse? We’re still missing time.

I could present you a different scenario. I could say that Armand stalked Daniel back to NY (which would be on brand, but I digress) and turned him there out of spite or not out of spite. That Daniel remembers or doesn’t remember their past together. That Armand possibly stayed with Daniel some time until Daniel, rightfully pissed off for San Francisco or the gaslighting Armand did to Louis or directing the trial or erasing Daniel’s memories or any of the fucked up shit that Armand did in their shared past (there’s a LOT that this gremlin has done that would make Daniel angry), asked Armand to go away. I could even tell you that in Queen of the Damned Daniel and Armand fought, a lot. I could tell you that Daniel left Armand for months at a time when he was pissed off because Armand wouldn’t turn him. I could tell you that after Daniel was turned, things soured between him and Armand dramatically and, per Armand, Daniel left him.

  I can quote Queen of the Damned to state my case:

“Conversations, sparring matches, and downright fights became the rule.”

“Ugly fights, terrible fights, finally, Armand broken down, glassy-eyed with silent rage, then crying softly but uncontrollable as if some lost emotion had been rediscovered which threatened to tear him apart.”

“And the wandering started, the escaping, and Armand did not follow him. Armand would wait each time until Daniel begged to come back. Or until Daniel was beyond calling, until Daniel was on the verge of death itself. And then and only then, Armand would bring him back.”

I can quote The Vampire Armand for you in the parts relevant to Daniel to show you the contentious separation that also reeks of Armand’s self-loathing and his desire to complete his self-fulfilling prophecy even though it’s painful for me:

“…the boy, who had been my faithful mortal companion, and only sometimes an intolerable nuisance…”

“Daniel, though alive and wandering, though civil and gentle, can no more stand my company than I can stand his. Equipped with my powerful blood, he can contend with any who should be foolish enough to interrupt his plans for an evening, a month or a year, but he cannot contend with my continuous company and I cannot contend with his.”

“I pushed his face into the flesh of the first young innocent he had to slaughter for his inevitable thirst, and thereby fell off the pedestal on which he’d placed me in his demented, over imaginative, feverishly poetical and ever exuberant mortal mind.”

“[…]when gaining Daniel as a fledgling, I lost him as a mortal lover and gradually began to let him go.”

“[…] I rejoined the world in a way which I had not done since my fledgling, my one and only fledgling, Daniel Molloy, had left me. My love for Daniel had never been entirely honest, and always viciously possessive, and quite entangled with my own hatred of the world at large, and my confusion in the face of the baffling modern times which had begun to open up to me […] Daniel himself had no use for the world […] Heaping every luxury upon him, I only sickened him with mortal sweets so that finally he turned away from the riches I offered, becoming a vagabond. Mad, roaming the streets in rags, he shut out the world almost to the point of death, and I, weak, muddled, tormented by his beauty, and lusting for the living man and not the vampire he might become, only brought him over to us through the working of the Dark Trick because he would have died otherwise.”

“[…]he loathed me in his heart for having initiated him into Living Death, for having made him in one night an immortal and a regular Killer. As a mortal man, he had no real idea of the price we pay for what we are, and he did not want to learn the truth; he fled from it, in reckless dreams and spiteful wandering.”

The last sentence in the quote above fucking bullshit, by the way, because Daniel actively asked to see Armand kill and Armand told him no but, whatever.

“and so it was as I feared. Making him to be my mate, I made a minion who saw me all the more clearly as a monster. […] There was never any chance, no matter how beautiful the twilight gardens in which we wandered. Our souls were out of tune, our desires crossed and our resentments too common and well watered for the final flowering.”

But for all those quotes, for all the extrapolating, and for all the suppositions, we simply do not know. We weren’t given concrete answers to anything. Which, yes, is frustrating as all fuck. Because, if we read into it at face value, if we follow that this trend would destroy two characters and a core relationship and what it means to them both in the long run, then we have to accept defeat. We have to admit that the writers of this show don’t actually care about this pairing or these characters as individuals. We have to admit that something that we have wanted (and some of have wanted this since Queen of the Damned came out in 1988) is never going to happen. That we, like Louis, have been gaslit and taken advantage of. 

We’d have to reframe all the charged looks, the oddly sexual “yeah,” Armand knowing how to make drinks to Daniel’s exact tastes, Armand de-escalating Louis’ humiliation of Daniel (I know some of you think he was making it worse but, neither the tone of Armand’s voice or his facial expressions read that intention to me, sorry), the overly elaborate courses of food served to Daniel (which, to book readers, is a nod to when Armand ordered everything in a restaurant for Daniel), the brief announcement of a Night Island spinoff, Armand feeling the need to justify himself directly to Daniel in 2x6, putting Assad and Eric/Luke together for press stuff, etc. are all some sick trick. That they either want to make it into enemies to lovers (which it never really was) and forfeit its true meaning or, worse, that it’s all been shipbaiting to keep us on the hook when Devil’s Minion girlies already know that this is the Lestat and Louis show.

I get it. This is not what many of us wanted. We wanted to see the turning. We wanted to see it be about love. We wanted to see Daniel get even a hint of who he and Armand had been to each other in the past, because they definitely had one. We wanted confirmation that, once upon a time, Armand found some of his humanity through a mortal he loved and that, after 30+ years apart, he broke the rule he withheld for nearly 5 centuries because of his love for this boy. We got none of it. All we know is that Armand turned Daniel, that Daniel doesn’t know where his maker is, and that Daniel’s pissed at him. That’s it.

It leaves us, essentially, with nothing. Frankly, it’s more of a nothing than I thought we were going to get. Again, this is the Lestat and Louis show. They are the protagonists and it is their stories (apart and together) that are the A plot. So all that we can do, if we want to see a good version of Devil’s Minion, is wait and hope. Hope that the good writing that has been done in sections of the show holds true to this also. Hope that, given that the plot hole we ALL noticed in 1x2 was explained in 2x8, all of the subtle hints we have been given are actually going to pay off. Hope that this team, that has put a lot of love and care into this show, doesn’t massively fuck over two characters. Hope that someone gets Eric violet contacts in S3 (unless it’s like the theory @cbrownjc has regarding body swapping which would be very interesting---also if you haven't already, follow her, her blog is incredible and has fantastic insights) because if they can give Jacob green ones, there’s no fucking excuse. 

(Yes, this is a nitpick. As an aside, the established vamps do change shades of eye colour, because Louis and Lestat have had at least 2 shades of green and blue respectively in S2, and Armand had 3 shades of amber/brown/reddish orange in 2x8 ALONE. The weird bit with Daniel’s eyes specifically is how dramatic of a colour shade change it is, how quickly the change happens, and that, say it with me kids, NONE OF THE SHADES ARE VIOLET.)

Listen, this hasn’t really had a thesis statement but I’ve ranted enough that it could be an actual term paper. But I want to end this by saying that what gives me hope is that, thus far, the quality of this show, in every aspect, is fantastic. Heck, I get hope in the fact that the Loustat girlies have been DEEP in the trenches for two seasons and it’s getting a little better for them. Louis is where he needs to be at this point of the story and we know that Lestat, the real Lestat, is coming. Goodness knows, Sam’s gonna keep fighting to make sure it is the real Lestat, warts and all, even with the changes that most people didn’t like. So, let’s hope. Let’s hope that the showrunner/head writer is, yet again, being a massive troll. Let’s hope that the writing team actually understood what the point of Devil’s Minion was and where its beauty lay and that they don’t diminish it to be something entirely foreign. Let’s hope that the massive holes, the missing time, missing scenes, all equate to a net positive. Let’s not give up yet.

TL;DR Don’t be fatalistic about how S2 ended and what it means for Devil’s Minion, because there’s way too much that is missing to conclusively write it off at this time.

[murfpersonalblog]

FrankFreezy on Victim-Blaming in the IWTV Fandom (IWTV 2x1 - 19:09 - 25:34)

If I see or sense something that is problematic...I'm going to say something, and one of those things that led me to this whole thought process of speaking about victim blaming is because my whole thing with Lestat in Season One is like I have said countless times:

I'm judging and speaking on these characters based on what I am seeing in front of me.

And a lot of people have spoiled; a lot of people have hinted; a lot of people have suggested that: "Don't worry, when you get to Season Two everything will make sense!"

And I'm happy for that! I'm happy to grow and evolve...with the story as I go. I'm a patient man, and I'm a man that likes being told I am wrong, in the sense that I'm open to learn, I'm open to embrace new point of views.

However, I'm also a man who calls sh*t when I see it, or calls some kind of characters and behaviors when I see it.

Now, something I want to talk about victim blaming is: If someone SA'd someone, or abused someone, and your first comment or your initial comment is: "Hey man, we need to look deeper into this abuser's past! We need to check out their trauma and what made them do this!" Then I'm going to say something about that, because those things are valid! Mental health is important, and knowing how a character got from Point A to Point B is very valid.

But the part about victim blaming that comes up for me is: Why is the abuser's past or trauma the thing being centered in this moment??? Doesn't it make more sense that the person that is going through it or the person who is abused--their pain, their current trauma that we're seeing Lestat inflict in front of our eyes--should be centered first?!

When that person is cared for and taken care of and understood, yeah, we can run back then we can run back and check out Lestat's past or why this person got from here to here, you know?

...Because if I just got abused, and in the midst of it the first thing I'm hearing people asking is: "Oh, the person that abused me, they've had a hard past, and was hurt, people hurt people!" And all these conversations that comes around trauma, generational trauma? I would feel so neglected and messed up! Because I just went through some traumatic sh*t, and my abuser is being centered!?

...Everyone has been telling me we're just seeing Louis' point of view. Even in Episode 7, Armand told Molloy that "You only know half the story, you're going to apologize when you hear everything." I'm SO eager to hear Lestat's side and everything.... Let let me see all the nuances. And I'm happy to see how it changes my mind and all this.

But...almost every time I am cautioned or I am nudged gently in the "right direction" to look at Lestat's reasons for what he's doing, often times it never comes side-by-side with also empathizing or centering Louis, or the people who are being abused.

Like, I just posted Episode [Four] on YouTube, the episode where Claudia did her first kill [on Charlie], unfortunately, and how Lestat was after it happened. He wasn't very comforting; he forced her to look at the body, and all these things, and that's a child! Vampire or not!... I had some thoughts towards that, I'm like: "Yo, she just went through something very traumatic, and you do this!?"

And there was a bunch of folks that were on the whole: "He was training her to be what she was supposed to to be!"

...She did some self harm at the ending of that episode, and in a lot of those comments, none of...the trauma she's actively going through was centered. It was just more: "So, this is Lestat's reason for doing this;" and it gave me victim blaming vibes a lot.

...Especially with Louis, like: "Oh yeah, he was a flawed man before Lestat changed him. He agreed to it, he consented into it!"

I'm not seeing them being centered in that case. I am seeing justifications for why Lestat is doing that.

....I'm just seeing some thoughts, patterns, that I feel from my POV are like low key problematic.

-- Already LOVE season 2 🧡| Interview With The Vampire 2x1 | Reaction & Commentary - FrankFreezy (19:09 - 25:34)

[ca-suffit]

This antiblack campaign the fandom just tried to kick up again (to avoid talking about the real issue with Nalyra) reveals how powerless they're starting to truly feel now.

They don't have many users left to vilify so they're putting people on blocklists who are brand new (I was here 3 days lol) or not even really in the fandom. That looks goofy and desperate but then it keeps going. DMing strangers to say "the truth" isn't about racism and "talk to me if you really want to know about anything." Everyone's reblogging those blocklist posts now and adding large commentary suddenly, when before they often fully sat it out. They're doing this in a group to look like they have larger numbers and are "revealing" there's a "big secret bullying problem"....except nobody believes them. Because there's plenty of accounts who are out here saying this shit straight to their faces and they pretend we all don't exist. All of this group has to manufacture drama solely because they just don't want to talk about harmful shit they actually do.

Neil has to make an antiblack statement she made suddenly be about antisemitism towards her, Nalyra's antiblackness is "actually" fans upset about shipping and "what's REALLY coming" in S2, showmey0urfangs is always happy to show up with her dumb screencaps and villain monologue nobody asked for so she can make her everlasting outrage about popular black fics and "feminized" Louis sound deeper than it is, Virginia suddenly cries about IRL issues and wants to leave the fandom because she wants to distract from the Nalyra receipts, Keybearer accused another black fan of trolling people and getting accounts suspended on twitter in 2023 when a Marius fan eventually confessed to it and his eternal shame for that means now every black fan except him is a bully (despite nobody talking about this ever anymore except him), chicalepidopterare mocks a black fan for blocking her "because I thought we were supposed to talk about racism" and then poorly tries to frame any retaliation against her to look like bullying ("see, they're misogynistic, they're bullying my art, they're mean for disliking these ships!").

To quote Claudia here, "You must think me an idiot." And the big cherry on top is also how none of these losers can stand to hear any mention of race....in the fandom of the show that nonstop talks about race. They're using very basic (and meant in a gentle, loving way) teasing of Jacob as proof that black fans are racist against Jacob too, black fans hate Jacob's white wife. People hate Lestat for being white too (what?). They can write crap meta all day about Lestat letting Louis "rape" him and only white victims (Lestat) being real victims to the evil black and brown "true" manipulators (Claudia, Louis, Armand) but gentle teasing from black fans about Jacob's haircut is the real racism. Okay lol. Care to tell us again why you think Delainey's Claudia looks "less innocent" now then? This 3D chess you think you're playing isn't playing how you think for anyone else.

I also notice that afaik there's not a single black American in this group. Idek if there's many Americans of any kind in the group. It's been a lot of shaming to black Americans specifically though, again from the show that's focused on black Americans....by people who aren't black Americans.

"There's people pretending to be black so it's okay to keep hating this whole group." It's not enough you already nonstop shit on black fans as it is, now you have to try to angle it as if none of this could be authentic in the first place. Vile behavior. For what? Tumblr isn't even a platform that pays you for whatever clout you have, so really what is the point here. In a small ass fandom on top of it. Some of you have pretty grown kids too, this is extra sad. It makes all the jumping through hoops to coddle Lestat's behavior make sense though, if you're the same kind of person yourself. Anyway, maybe you don't actually know everything because race exists in the real world beyond how Anne Rice wrote about it in her useless books! You make books written by a racist white woman your whole personality and guess what your outlook on life is going to be.

It's been really pathetic to especially watch any fans of color move more to this extreme bullying side as time has gone on. It will never pay off to promote white fandom ideals. These accounts you're trying to cuddle up to aren't even that big. The fandom outside of the tags actually has much more popular posts, supporters, and fics...although that's also half of what this all is actually about, fic numbers. Again, these are grown adults obsessing over this. We could have a whole different fandom if this group didn't exist and keep wanting to gatekeep everything and be the only people who get praise about anything.

It's no surprise that people who worship Anne Rice have major ego problems themselves. It's been fucked up to deal with but the good thing now is that big egos have big collapses eventually and that's what we're starting to see happening now. People are sick of you and able to see through your basic ass manipulation techniques. People just want to have a fandom, they're not here to worship fans who want to be dictators. Nobody is here for your fragility, losers.

[devilsminion-armandaniel]

apologies if you've been asked this already, but im curious what your hopes are for dm in the show (in terms of happened in the past/will happen in the future/both/secret fourth option(?) and what you think is most likely to actually happen, if those arent the same thing

(it turned into a pretty long post when I had it all typed out, sorry.) I think my hopes are pretty much in line with what I expect the show to do. I definitely think we're getting Past Devil's Minion. it's been hinted at in promo too much for us not to see Luke again. Luke did a lot of promo to begin with for a one episode character, especially if we wouldn't see him again for the rest of the series. Compared to Madeline who was in more episodes. Now, you could argue Luke is better know, but I don't think Luke is anywhere near a household name. We have seen all three them of them talk about Young Daniel. Eric wants to see Luke do a scene with his ex wife/ex-wives, Assad wants a threesome scene where Daniel and Luke merge into each other. And Luke would like it if Alice was Armand. I think if Young Daniel was a closed chapter the actors would be discouraged from talking about it, as to not raise fandom expectations the show had zero plans on filling. Not to mention we had Vampire Sam at the big opening of the season 2 and we had Luke there as well. No other TdV actor was there, only the 'big' characters and actors. And where we haven't seen much of Vampire Sam yet, we will be seeing him again in S3. So, I think Luke being there and pairing him up with Assad for promo was a deliberate choice. There are some things in the show itself that also make me more sure that Young Daniel will return. We know old Daniel has a faulty memory and that he is still missing pieces. And that he also doesn't remember everything properly from how thinks it went. His own auto-biography isn't a correct story, as highlighted by Louis being the stranger he once met. Memory is the monster. Daniel feeling freer in Paris to hold 'Alice' hands, Armand triggering Daniel's memories. Raglan knowing Armand wouldn't harm Daniel. Armand caring about Daniel enough to stop Louis from hurting him, from crossing lines, offering comfort and apologies. None of that makes a lot of sense if they weren't something at some point in the past. Especially because Jacob said in an interview that after San Francisco Armand and Louis kind of went their own way, where they didn't always check up on each other. Armand, according to Daniel, would disappear for long stretches of time in the book, which could easily be during the chase. Armand going from Daniel to Louis and back. We also don't really know much about Louis' past and if Armand was always there. Nor do we know when Armand discovered he could walk in the sun. We have a good 50 years of 'nothing' that we still need to see. We still have to learn when and why Louis believed Lestat was dead and murdered by him and Claudia. Or when Louis found out Claudia hated him. And when he forgot about that. Why did Louis stop killing in 2000. What happened that made him want to change. Who did he kill? If we still have to get all that knowledge I have to assume, there is knowledge in those years that we also need about Armand, Lestat and Daniel. So, I guess, I always simply look at the book as being slightly altered but not much. Past DM is still the QoTD chapter bare the turning which is now their separation. And instead of Daniel going mad and being with Marius, the show aged him, gave him wives and daughters. The present is the show's version of the Prince Lestat trilogy. When they reunite. Anne never wrote those scenes out, so the show has a lot of freedom to decide how to go about this. And I think with this set up, Devil's Minion can be the best couple on tv in a very long time. With all the drama, love, lust, longing, fighting, toxicity and warmth, that only they can have. With the whirlwind rollarcoaster romance and the heartbreaking separation of the past, to the challenging, yearned for, longed for, painful, healing and hopeful reunion. I'm not psychic though, but i do really hope this is the direction they are going in, it's the one I would pick and I think it's the one that will have the highest success rate storywise.

[pynkhues]

Really interesting point about Louis often minimising his actions and painting himself in better light while telling his tale. The problem is, that a large part of fandom tend to take everything he says at face value without critical thinking. Upon rewatching, I've noticed the disparities between Louis' voiceover and what's actually shown on the screen. The most jarring example would be Louis claiming he was being hunted and the next shot we see is Lestat looking at him with utter adoration lol. It's obvious that there was nth predatory about their courting.

There's one thing i can't stop wondering (and sorry if you talked about this before): in 1.03 Louis tells Daniel that because of his diet his libido was nonexistent and that was the reason why he wasn't having sex with Lestat and let his indulgence with Antoinette happen. However, later he was quiet eager and had no problem getting it up for Jonah. If he barely could hold a book how he was capable of having sex? I believe his libido was lower but he clearly wasn't impotent. Imo, the main reason why he wasn't having sex with Lestat- but did with Jonah- was because he was blaming him for "taking his life" and wanted to punish him by witholding sex and affection. He was also rejecting his vampirism and by extension Lestat.

I also wouldn't be surprised if once he started eating people again he also had sex with some of his victims like he did in S2, he just didn't mention it to Daniel. Apparently feeding flings are common for vampires and i don't think that neither of them would consider it cheating. Basically, I don't agree with the fandom opinion that Louis is more monogamous than Lestat and Armand. I think you're right and they all are sluts haha.

Lestat and Louis' courtship is definitely a good example of Louis framing something in a way that's both technically true yet articulated in a way that paints a less-than-generous picture. Like, I think there is a sort of element of a hunt in the way Lestat doggedly pursues Louis with the intent of getting him fall in love with him, haha, but it's a sort of hunt you'd probably use interchangably with the word chase or pursue. The use of the actual word hunt itself calls to mind a predator and prey in a way the other two don't, which isn't necessarily reflective of the dynamic that's happening on screen, like you said.

The word choice is such a deliberate one, and I think does a really good job of establishing Louis as an unreliable narrator. After all, the very nature of the interview being Louis recounting chapters of his life means that he's endlessly informed by everything that's happened afterwards. In a lot of ways, Louis needs to not just paint the picture that Lestat's a monster, but feel that he's one, because Louis needs to justify his own actions in the wake of that both to Daniel and to himself. He needs Lestat to be a predator so that he gets to be prey, and therefore blameless in all the carnage, because if that's not the case, if it's not their dynamic, then Louis is ultimately accountable too.

But yes! Agreed that the restricted diet / animal blood alone wasn't making Louis impotent - which Jonah is evidence of - although I do think it definitely would've impacted his sex drive. I agree with both your thoughts that it stems from Louis punishing Lestat, both for taking his life and I'd say for cheating on him in the first place, and as a manifestation of this rejection of his vampirism that Lestat is the physical embodiment of.

I'd add to it too that I think the withdrawal wasn't just a punishment and rejection of Lestat, but I think in some ways it was a punishment and rejection of himself too. Louis didn't want to open up their relationship initially, and I think the scene where he asks if he's enough is really telling of the deeper insecurity Louis has in his relationship with Lestat. Louis struggles with his sense of self, and at that point in the series had enormous issues of internal repression and external oppression when it came to both his race and his sexuality.

In a lot of ways, that feels partially aggravated by his relationship with Lestat, because their relationship being interracial adds - especially in that era, but arguably still now - its own degree of social taboo even outside of Louis being gay and Black.

In that sense, Antoinette, and Lestat's relationship with her, feels uniquely built to point out everything that's publicly quote-unquote 'wrong' about his and Lestat's own relationship. She's a woman, he's a man, she's white, he's Black, she's straight, he's gay, and together she and Lestat are a heterosexual, white, socially acceptable couple, while together he and Lestat are a queer, interracial, socially unacceptable couple.

Add to that Antoinette and Lestat having a shared language both in their whiteness and in music, which I talked about here, I think Louis withdrawing in intimacy and affection from Lestat was - on top of being punishing and a rejection - manifested by his own deeply held insecurities around what his and Lestat's relationship is. After all, if Lestat still wants her - if he still wants that - when he's with Louis, what's to say that he won't one day decide that the ease of that is worth more than the struggle of it with Louis?

I can absolutely see that having an impact on Louis' sexuality with Lestat, and I don't think it was coincidental that he's able to consumate with a man he shared his own language and identity with being both Black and gay, instead of with his white, bisexual husband.

[bluedalahorse]

Two options for the character breakdown game: Sara (because you haven't done her yet, and we can't leave her out) and Claudia

You know what? I’m going to do both.

Claudia

How I feel about this character: TV CLAUDIA IS THE ABSOLUTE GREATEST. I’ll be honest, book!Claudia kind of weirded me out conceptually, especially the part where she and Louis are kind of in love but she still looked like a little kid? I also read Interview with the Vampire at the age when I was just… not great at loving female characters, and when I sort of wanted to ship mlm ships exclusively. But show Claudia is incredible. I mean, there’s the part where she’s extremely badass, and one of her first acts as a vampire is to just. Straight up eat a cop. But I love that we start from that badass, highly emotional teenage space but then go deeper with her, and I love how unapologetically herself she is. I love that she dreams about the idea of finding vampire community. I love that she stands up for herself. I love that she and Lestat are so alike and they fight about it. I love that she refuses to let her truth be erased by the way she records everything in her diary. Claudia deserves the world and I cannot say that enough.

All the people I ship romantically with this character: CLAUDELEINE OBVIOUSLY. They deserved more happiness together than they got.

My non-romantic OTP for this character: If there were a universe where Claudia and Daniel could have existed at the same time and become friends, they would have been unstoppable, and they would have adored one another, and everyone else would have suffered for it. Hilariously.

My unpopular opinion about this character: Occasionally I see book only fans argue that the tragedy of Claudia is ruined when she’s turned as a teenager rather than a little kid. This is something I very much disagree with. Teens are just as tragic as little kids, first of all, but people do have a weird bias against teenagers and actually feeling for teenagers, and I wish they wouldn’t. Also, since Claudia looks like someone in between childhood and adulthood, the age that people in-universe read her as is like�� entirely determined by what they want to read her as to control her. Sometimes people infantilize her and make her play Baby Lu. Sometimes they subject her to very adult forms of abuse. Claudia is still tragic no matter what, okay?

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: I wish she and Madeleine could have lived in that cute cottage forever. (Gosh if only Armand hadn’t been stuck behind the baby gate…)

Sara

How I feel about this character: MY WONDERFUL DAUGHTER WHO HAS NEVER DONE ANYTHING WRONG IN HER LIFE. But, while we’re talking about teenage girls, she’s one of the best teenage girls ever written on TV, ever. Sara reached out through the screen and grabbed me by the heart. Her care for others, her willingness to look past the obvious of a situation, her curiosity about who she is and what she values… when she said “no one likes me when I’m me” my sixteen year old self felt seen. I am consistently floored that all my favorite YouTubers who talk about autism and ADHD rep in television have weirdly never talked about her. I almost avoided joining YR tumblr fandom because the abundance of “Sara is on thin ice” posts I saw while lurking made me hesitant and disappointed. Most of my fandom hiatuses were caused in part by people being shitty about her. Sara has one of the best damn arcs in Young Royals, hands down.

All the people I ship romantically with this character: Well, obviously August, controversial as that opinion is. I think their relationship ended up in the right place by the finale, but I can’t resist their chemistry along the way. And as I was saying to @heliza24 earlier, there’s just something about characters who perceive themselves as unlovable finding love with one another. Now, I want to have other Sara ships, but… I don’t know if I do, really? I might read Sara as a little arospec, like gray aro or something, and it actually means a lot to me that she chooses friends and family over romance in the end. But if you get back to me a few months from now maybe I’ll feel differently, who knows.

My non-romantic OTP for this character: potentially weird turn but like, Wilhelm? Specifically in Heart and Homeland where they end up in a kind of disability solidarity queerplatonic partnership. I don’t know if I feel that as much in canon. As far as canon goes, Felice first and Simon second.

My unpopular opinion about this character: I’m going to make this an extension of my August Unpopular Opinion on my August post, because I’m vibrating on a higher sargust frequency than usual this week due to anxiety about travel and I kinda just want to talk about sargust because it’s a comfort pairing. And that is… Sara’s feelings for August are something we can enjoy fannishly, too. They are something we can write fic about and come up with AUs for and make gifsets and fanmixes of. The AU stuff especially—I feel like sargust still could have happened in an alternate universe, or in a universe where Simon didn’t end up at Hillerska, or whatever else. Sara and August have a relationship in their own right and while they are a superb foil to wilmon they are not only a foil to wilmon. There is a level of Weird Teen Girl Horniness represented onscreen in the portrayal of Sara’s crush on August that just feels like, refreshing and authentic. The yearning with the picture of him in 1.5, like girl his hair is terrible in that picture and yet you are there for it! The grinding in 2.2! The dumb little arm punch in 2.3 before they just give up and make out! Seeing a lot of people who’d previously said only negative things about Sara suddenly decide they like her after season 3 when she dumped August was… not as comforting as I’d hoped it would be. Like again, to be clear, I do think their relationship ended in the right place and I want Sara away from him, obligatory “August did terrible things that I do not condone” disclaimer that I’m very bored of typing by now etc etc, I get why this is not everyone’s cup of tea, and so on and so forth. But I just… like them together, okay. And I wonder about all the other people who liked them together who ended up leaving the fandom because there wasn’t as much of a place to express that.

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: Sara’s arc is pretty perfect. I have one thing I maybe wanted to say about S3 but I’ll hold back for now. EDIT: I wanted her and Wilhelm to have more interaction in season 3. What was the lack of that about?

One thing’s for sure, after typing all that I really want Sara and Claudia to be friends, and to be able to play with horses together.

[cbrownjc]

loumand shippers are mostly brown and black people who are first and foremost happy to see and interracial gay relationship without a white in it.

they will never turn on loumand or assad because for them it's less about the show and more about the representation.

they're also the smallest group in the fandom when you think of the three main ships. loustat, loumand, dm.

Hey Anon,

I mean, I kinda don't want to assume. I'm sure there are some white fans who ship Armand and Louis too. But I admit I do feel like many who do are as you say, people are drawn to a non-white interracial couple.

And I don't have a problem with that. I fully understand that. Hell, it's a rare thing to see in any medium. And if they are fine with accepting that Armand isn't going to morph into some noble good guy and will be doing some problematic things, just like other characters in this story, that's fine too. Again I and no one has ever asked them to stop shipping Armand and Louis because of the things Armand will do. Or turn on the ship.

The actors however no, I'm not confident about that. And not just because of what some of them are saying about Sam. But because of what I'm hearing is being said about Jacob too.

Apparently, some people have called Jacob a sell-out in regard to this stuff, particularly it seems because he's friends and close with Sam. Jacob, who went through some of the most racist backlashes in almost any fandom due to his casting, is being called this and having people question why he is so close with and hangs out with Sam so much instead of Assad.

So forgive me but no, at the moment I have little faith Assad is going to escape some of this when even Jacob hasn't, apparently.

And lord forbid either one of them say anything nice about Sam, or that their characters both actually love Lestat. Because, you know, as far as canon goes, Louis and Armand both do love Lestat too. Deeply.

This does not negate the love and understanding Armand and Louis have for each other, of course. But that is just a nuance here that I feel is going to go over a lot of these people's heads. It seems to whenever many of us in fandom have tried to explain it before now.

I don't usually mind shipper back and forths. I've engaged in my own in different fandoms, as anyone who goes through my Tumblr archives can see. I don't really do it for IWTV and VC fandom simply because I'm so drawn to the poly nature of Rice's vampires than I am for any sort of monogamous shipping aspect or idea. I am deeply looking forward to seeing the combinations of everything that's coming in S2.

But I am not looking forward to the actors being attacked or having disparaging things said about them just because Jacob or Assad aren't hanging out with each other more like some think they should, or because they both actually like Sam, or will at some point talk about how each of the characters they play love Sam's character and being called sell-outs for that, or anything else.

Because, again, nothing I'm seeing right now wrt all of this is giving me pause to not expect it to happen. Nothing at all.

And I speak from experience when I say . . . the actors do see or hear this personal stuff that's said about them. You might think they don't, especially if they have limited or no social media. But they still hear about it, even if just through a second hand. For sure.

[gagfadget]

🔥 15, 17

15. that one thing you see in fanart all the time

Kinda said this in the last ask but people white washing either Louis or Armand but especially Louis. In other fandoms I’ve been in, whenever someone white washed a character that artist got dragged through mud by the rest of the fandom. Obviously I don’t condone harassment or dog pilling but people were very firm with stuff like that because it made no sense for someone to understand almost everything else pertaining to art except how to color a poc, or even just COLOR PICK from them. And with this series, whitewashing feels extra slimy because Louis’ race is very integral to the plot and to his relationship with Lestat.

But in this fandom I’ve seen..SOOO much art of Louis looking whiter than a sheet and everyone is just like “WOW 😍😍 Louis looks so good! reblog reblog reblog” and I’m just sitting there like 😐😐😐😐 hello??? It takes so much strength inside of me to not jump on some of these artists and ask them why do they make Louis so white and I’m pretty sure that the one artist who I again, will not name but you know exactly who I’m talking about, was just white washing him on purpose to get a rise out of people.

It kills me.

17. there should be more of this type of fic/art

I think there should be more unhinged art lol. I love the sexy nsfw stuff and I even produce that sometimes but I think more artists, including myself, should start doing more unhinged shit. Blood, gore, ugliness, decay. More art about losing your mind, more art about complete nonsense. Art about a frog tearing the wings off a raven and sewing them into its own flesh so that it could fly. Stuff like that idk 💀💀 I like new shit that inspires me and i have seen alot as of late but I’d like to see more.

[nalyra-dreaming]

Quick comment - Rollins wasn’t talking about not seeing it in episode 8, he meant at all. He speaks about how they don’t want to rebuild the Dubai set again (in another interview). He did however expand a little on it, basically saying it’s not impossible but honestly that doesn’t make me feel better. Because it implies that so far that scene is not narratively important to their plan, which carries unfortunate implications.

I found Rollins’ vibe strange overall. He seems surprised over the level of investment in DM here (and back at ATX) to me, like he seems eager to reassure fans now and almost a bit defensive about it. Makes me worried about how little had been planned about this - or that he realizes that fans might be/get a bit disappointed over certain decisions. I say this as someone who was not expecting a past DM (would like it though) so my expectations weren’t high, but off-screening everything…. Not only the turning, but the before and immediate aftermath… and the time skip :/

I like the theory of Louis planning to turn Daniel for Armand, but I can’t believe that after S02E05 Louis wouldn’t tell Daniel if there was more memories and more to his relationship to Armand. Like I can’t buy that, it would not be a good look for Louis. And sure Louis is no saint (no one is) but he seemed to feel bad about what happened to young Daniel and also appreciative of Daniel finally helping him realizing all (in ep 5 and 8). So no I can’t see Louis choosing to keep that kind of fact from Daniel. Also, Louis comments about the surprise seemed to me to refer to the food. Just in how he expresses himself when I rewatched the scene. Doesn’t have to be, but I think it’s important to account for that it might just be that.

Thanks for hearing you out, reading your blog is honestly making me feel a little better about it all

*hugs* Glad it helps? :/

Okay so I shared the insider earlier where it is hinted at more wrt Louis and Daniel, and… it got me thinking with you saying Louis would have told him - because… would he?

How much does Louis remember at this point? How much will come back still?

I DO think the memories will come back. But I do NOT think we have had the full picture yet. And I don’t think ghe characters have that either.

As per Rolin… I think he always seems strange when he is trying not to spill too much. All those episode insiders… the way he wrote the OST inlet text and the way he did write the press release with the nod to fandom. ;)) He’s a special guy and I think we are very lucky to have him. But interpreting him might be… difficult ^^

[thelioncourts]

themasterletters has just finished one of the most spectacular stories I have ever had the luck of reading in a fandom. I could talk endlessly about going into GtL with such trepidation (borderline hate-reading it at the beginning times because I was like 'who is cheating on Louis 😭 I hate lestat and armand both so much') and leaving both GtL/RiL utterly blown away by how naturally everything fell, how seamlessly it fit, how beautifully every thread of plot was tied off, how gorgeous the storytelling consistently was, how much it made me fall in love with loumand in ways I didn't even know possible, how it's the one time I don't look at lesmand with the worst face, how talented TML is, etc. etc. what a feat of writing, especially in such a short time.

we are so lucky. I am so in awe.

[murfpersonalblog]

I don't have to lie on people, that's why I screencap

Nalyra, as I'd screencapped AND linked in the post about Amel in question, your own anon thanked YOU for being the one who said "Amel possessed Lestat for the drop" in the first place. I didn't have to lie on you when your anon said it themselves.

Big talk saying NOW that blaming Amel would be abuse apologia, when months BEFORE you said you thought Ep5 the fight really was "NOT DOMESTIC ABUSE" at all!

--cuz YOU said multiple times how YOU didn't think Louis & Claudia were abused cuz they didn't act scared enough WTF?

Esp. since YOU go on & on about Amel possessing Lestat--

--when ACCORDING TO BOOK CANON AMEL'S NOT EVEN AWAKE when Loustat were living together, and Lestat said MULTIPLE times that he NEVER heard The Voice or felt compelled/contacted by Amel until YEARS AFTER Akasha was DEAD.

So yeah, you admitted the Drop happened once 2x7 aired, good for frikkin you--after campaigning for MONTHS BEFORE that the S2 revisit was gonna prove once & for all that it DIDN'T happen--you & your followers analyzing everything from Lestat's hairstyles to prove that Louis was "wrong" or Armand had inserted "fake" memories of the Drop or whatever it took to declare Lestat innocent--

You walking all your theories back NOW, AFTER the S2 revisit, doesn't negate the fact that it was YOUR theories (even BEFORE Sam's interview) that opened the can of worms in the first place on people thinking the Drop wasn't even real, let alone Amel's fault--all in an effort to point the finger at someone or something OTHER than Monsieur Lestat de Lioncourt HIMSELF for Ep5!

And I ALSO pointed out how in the same breath of walking back the Amel blame you STILL accused Louis of starting the fight, like wtf? It's STILL finding ways to absolve Lestat of responsibility, by victim blaming a father for protecting his daughter from being attacked--when even SAM said "it's not worth" wondering what would've happened if Louis had just backed down. Cuz that's ABUSE APOLOGIA & victim blaming and it makes you look weird as hell!

Anyone who thinks a parent protecting his own child from having her neck snapped is the one who "kindles" a fight is severely screwed in the head!

First you say Amel's possessing Les, then you walk it back and double down on saying Louis kindled/started the fight cuz he had the NERVE, the unmitigated GALL to throw himself at Lestat while his own kid was being choked TF out in front of him. But I'M lying on you for for calling out how you pivot every time one of your wack theories is proven WRONG?

And I DO know what Sam said--cuz I posted the whole transcription--which is that the Akasha bit was REMOVED from the S1 script, cuz spirit possession is effing irrelevant in a story about *gasp* DOMESTIC ABUSE, and that if AMC decides to use it to absolve/excuse Lestat in later seasons it'll be blasted for precisely what it is: ABUSE APOLOGIA to handwave that what Les did to Lou wasn't his fault. ANY entertainment of a theory like that is an IMMEDIATE red flag about why one would be so gung-ho to make the Drop less awful than it really was--and THAT is why I take issue with you & your anons who subscribe(d) to it, past, present or future.

But there y'all go, always acting persecuted and saying YOU'RE pissed, when all you're doing is ENCOURAGING & CREATING the bad takes in the fandom that have people constantly saying that someone who got abused by their S.O. is the one who should be to blamed!

Oh, so you understand what endorsement means wrt not being perceived as an abuse apologist--but you suddenly have a seizure when the racially coded language you historically & particularly love using wrt to Bipoc fans is called on the carpet (a la "them" "those people" "that subset" "that side of the fandom," etc), huh?

Your thinly veiled effing racist rhetoric ain't slick; you've been talking that way about Bipocs for ages now, like people don't know who the heck #Them is, when you and your fellows bigots throw shade at anyone who dares to look at Lestat with a critical eye & speak openly about the racial optics of a Black man getting his arse beat by a white man y'all are so quick to say is innocent & the Black man's either crazy or lying or both.

Cuz YES, Ep5 has created a domino effect in the fandom that's NOT gonna stfu & go away; and just cuz popular consensus says the sky is purple doesn't mean other people don't have eyes and can't see for themselves what the heck is going on around them.

Rolin wanted to start a dialogue about power dynamics, abuse, and yes darlings, even race, and here it is--stay mad.

Sweetie, I don't even have you blocked. I don't need to use a burner account when I can just type interview with the vampire or iwtv in the search bar on the dashboard and your posts are up & down the dang screen along with everyone else's. Learn how Tumblr works before you try that on me again.

[ca-suffit]

In response to this (context post)

here's how the fandom gets racist (post S2 finale edition) when it speaks about armand and lestat (or loumand and loustat). user cosmicjoke (nalyra's "reverse racism is real" friend) on June 30, 2024

and here's other examples of virginia and nalyra talking recently in ways that make sure to center lestat in everything and themselves as "victims" for defending his character (never saw ur names on any "fandom PSAs" but ok).

the full context of the "loumand in paris" quote and more

the thing is. the show has *not* centered lestat in the loumand relationship from armand's side of it tho. fucking actually. show fans do *not* have any context for this. so it's rly fucking weird to push this attitude that everything we saw about loustat was a lie. disregard that entire thing bcuz louis is crazy and a liar, armand is prbly mind controlling him fully anyway, it's all the black and brown characters faults. also their relationship sucks and everything u see there is real and BAD!!! armand's abuse is real!! lestat's isn't (nevermind the show has confirmed that within canon, we still have S3 to explain it away)!! we've been so bullied for so long bcuz we're only trying to tell the truth and black fans especially are soooOooo mean to us!!!!!!

it's not about "the books." it's about ppl pushing racist agendas and trying to look as innocent as possible doing it. it's about erasing everything to do with black and brown characters and relationships to serve only the white guy and whatever he does.

I do not understand why anyone speaks to these ppl and anyone associated with them. they are the sole reason this fandom has all of the racial issues it does. this is the whole reason I'm here. yet ppl come to me and tell me I'm the problem and I'm obsessive and deranged and whatever else. if more of u stopped positively interacting with and defending racist shit and/or spoke up about it as much as it occurs, it wouldn't have such a hold here! but it's easier for most (white) fans to just never say shit and any fans of color to just slowly leave over time and the cycle continues forever. all that's left is this poisonous shit, still infecting more and more fans bcuz it's the most prominent thing in the tags.

[captain-noir]

There’s a subset of IWTV fans who take everything the writers say or do in bad faith. If this program is causing you so much distress, then leave the fandom. They want the show cancelled even though Jacob has talked about how much he loves working on it. I just don’t get it.

oh god what now? its always something new with these weirdos. anyway they can stay mad because the writers have on three separate occassions told that subset of viewers and the book purist to kick rocks and change the channel. i commend rolin and hannah and co. for what they've crafted. i applaud them for ep 5 for going full horror and gothic. the critical acclaim, ratings and viewerships are all reflective of the fact their vision was well received. all the praise is well-deserved. those 'fans' are not critiquing anything - thats the lie they like to peddle in order to justify their harrassment of the creatives and fans alike. they're just mad the show isnt what they want or expected it to be and that the creatives arent bowing to their childish demands. like what the actual fuck do they want? yeah louis was abused we all saw it happen daniel literally spelled out in the text so really what the actual fuck are they moaning about? that louis isnt the perfect victim? that he still chooses to love and forgive and stay with his abuser? that lestat is a co-lead? that lestat is the protag of the vc? are you mad that dracula is about dracula? be fucking for real. anyway im eagerly awaiting all the horrors to come. i hope we get to witness armand in his frankenstein era and i hope louis kisses him with tongue after the fact. i hope we get to see the extended version of the murder scene really spend time eyeballing louis as he chokes out his daughtersister and for their mutual resentment to eat away at their bond now that they cant scapegoat lestat. i hope s2 and beyond are so horrific that in years to come episode 5 will be looked upon with much fondness. i can only hope that by the end of s2 they will have fucked off and left us the deranged gothic girlies to inherit the show.

[pynkhues]

I am someone who is not very into DM and I have this dreadful feeling that fandom will be disappointed and angry when they see season 3 because neither Armand nor Daniel are protagonists of this story so I don't think we'll see as much of it as the fandom is thinking we will.

I find fanon Armand extremely frustrating, honestly. I'm not huge fan of the character as it is(his freak is not my freak) but the way large majority of fandom decided that Armand is actually just an innocent weirdo is infuriating to me. Especially because it's not only fanfics, it's when they are discussing and analysing actual show canon. I've seen so many people claim Louis and Lestat are Armand's abusers since I've joined this fandom, it's insane. I feel like part of it is that people truly don't understand how messing with someone's mind like Armand does is actually extremely fucked up. I've seen people acting like Armand healed Louis's depression or suicidal ideation by messing with his mind. It's truly baffling how people just need everything to be literally spelled out to understand the story.

(x)

I enjoy them a lot (although maybe interestingly, I don't think I'll write them?), but I can totally understand why Armand's freak isn't for everyone, haha.

And mm, yeah, as someone who's been in a number of fandoms where the ship on screen hasn't quite matched the fervour of an audience / intensity of the fanworks between seasons, it really can stir up portions of the fandom. The show's obviously leaning into parts of DM, and they've been pretty clear that they will explore that, but even Rolin's made the comment a few times of DM itself only being one chapter of the entire book series, so how it's going to look on the show is going to be pretty different, one way or another.

And ah, I've seen a few interpretations of Armand that don't really match with mine, but I'd somehow managed to avoid the discourse that Louis and Lestat are Armand's abusers which is...I don't even know where to start, haha. It's certainly A Take. Psychological abuse is generally a lot less understood I'd say than physical abuse is, and given this is a fandom where some people can't even really handle gender politics without veering into TERF rhetoric, I can't say I'm especially surprised to hear that portions of it can't talk about depression and mental illness without veering into ableist and paternalistic talking points either (can't believe I have to type this in the year 2024, especially after Free Britney made this a mainstream conversation, but removing someone's rights to self-determine out of a sense of knowing what's better for them than they do is!! Bad??)

There's a tendency in this fandom broadly to absolve certain characters of their behaviour while holding others to account (often to an absurd degree), and I understand this varies in different pockets of fandom (I know some Lestat stans do the same for him), and I don't know! I just don't get it? I want the sympathetic monsters on my sympathetic monster show to be both sympathetic and monstrous? Both of those things are boring without the other!