#thats fine that they have their differences

[windwenn]

Stuff i've been thinking about a lot recently (not unrelated to my feelings about star trek)

[evelynpr]

Might be a hot take as a bkdk and tgck truther here, but I find izuocha endlessly fascinating, beautiful, but also tearfully tragic.

I see their love for each other as something representative of their innocence and naivety when they only knew so little about who they were, and what was to come.

I think the main barrier of their relationship is that its rooted in how they see each other very idealistically, specifically that they're attached to the image of their Best Heroic Selves, and not the deeply selfish, destructive, freaky, and egotistical parts of them. To each other, they need to keep fulfilling that image or else that same person they looked up to would almost die in front of them, and that would be too cruel. Although that hero is still there, that same person they looked up to is not the same now because of...well...everything.

Izuku had barely even talked to girls when he first met her. She was Izuku's first ever real friend (Sorry Kats, everyone and him knows he was terrible), so he saved her in that entrance exam even if it was so dangerous. She gave a new meaning to his derogatory nickname just by being a friend that believed in him. After that, she saved him several more times (Blackwhip and Megaphone are the biggest samples iirc). It makes perfect sense that she is Deku's hero.

Ochako hardly knew what it meant to be a hero when she first got into UA. Just by reaching out to some kid tripping, she made a new friend who would then save her in that exam, then save him again in return. This boy then became someone who was always working so hard to save everyone in trouble, and she realized she wanted to be just like him too. "I want to save people"

But...Deku changes. The weight of One for All is on his shoulders and he needs someone to carry this burden with him. He continues to want to save other people at the expense of himself, still not letting his true selfishness and ego ever show- and it only grows more and more unbearable.

Then...Ochako fell in love with Himiko. Truly, relentlessly, selfishly and devotedly in love with a girl who then dies giving her blood to her- the greatest expression of love Himiko could ever give.

Not that they can't love each other because of this happening (and...so many other things oh god), I'm honestly not sure how to explain it- But them ending up together after losing that innocence and naivety? After Ochako will forever grieve the girl who showed her love in its most beautiful and ugly form? After Izuku changed so fundamentally as a person that the butterflies of a nice girl talking to you doesn't exist anymore? After that simple image of being a hero and being in love has completely changed for them both?

Even so, I believe they still love each other. There is no label I know of that can properly describe them though. They are each other's image of being a hero when it comes to saving people. Aside from Shoto, no one else can grasp the grief of the person you tried to save dying in your hands. They would no doubt try to cope with these losses together, and just try to get better together...but so much has changed. They've changed. The world changed. What are they now? Who are they now?

"What happened...to us?"

[timmyrx2000]

Just an Ordinary Kid Like Us

Pacifica having a blast as she plays Baseball. Art by el_moribundo__

Part of my Gravity Falls Baseball AU continuity

Pacifica Northwest? Baseball? Now that's an unlikely pair! But believe it or not, it works! Everyone knows The Northwests love their family treasures, but this Northwest has taken an interest to a different type of diamond... the Baseball diamond!

Ever since Pacifica was "reluctantly" dragged to the town baseball diamond by Mabel and Dipper, she's been getting more and more immersed in the game. Sure, her grand father, Auldman Northwest, may have built the diamond, (heck it's even named after him, Auldman Northwest Memorial Baseball Field or just Auldman Field), but her parents have always made it a point of reminding her that this was just "a bone we throw to those filthy commoners so they don't forget who's the family that brings joy to their miserable existence". Now, she's here, decked out in her baseball gear, with her coach/adopted big sister, Wendy, and her new (real) best friends, Dipper and Mabel.

Baseball's become an outlet for Pacifica. For all her life, she's lived under the heavy and strict expectations of her family and their family name. "You're a Northwest", those words forever haunt her in whatever she did. Everything she did, she either had to be the best, had to be an achiever, or had to remember her family's reputation that they only engage in "the activities of high society"

But here? On THIS diamond, with THIS crowd... that all changes. When she slips in her uniform, steps into her cleats, straps on her batting gloves, plops on her baseball cap, and slides on her batting helmet, she's Pacifica... a kid like everyone else. Baseball's taught Pacifica that its ok to be a kid and its ok to have fun. No one's expecting her to be an MVP and no one's expecting her to carry the entire team on her shoulders.

It's gonna take some time for her to get used to being comfortable just being herself, but she's getting there. Wendy, Mabel, and Dipper have all made it their mission to get Pacifica to just enjoy and be who she really is. And incidentally, who she is...is actually one heck of a great Baseball Player. Pacifica always gives it her all and it shows. She's good, especially for a rookie, but obviously has a long way to go, especially in learning not to take herself too seriously and just living in the moment. But that's what everyone is here for. She may fail, but Wendy teaches her that its fine and just to laugh and learn from it and bounce back stronger. She may not have all the answers, but thats ok, Dipper's here to help her untangle whatever questions she has about what to do next. She may not always be the best, but Mabel's here to pick her up and give her the light hearted boost she needs.

There's no denying it, Baseball has given Pacifica the experience she's always wanted: to be a kid and to just enjoy being a kid. Slowly she learns that it doesn't matter if she's not the best, all that matters is that she knows she has a team who will ride and die for her. She has a big sister in Wendy who she can always lean on when things get rough. She has a best friend in Mabel who can will always stick by her through thick and thin. She has a dorky adopted sibling in Dipper who will always push her to go beyond what she thinks she can do while still grounding her. Pacifica's got a long way to go, but she's more than happy to see it through. No matter what she's got to learn, she's all in, even if it means still having to get used to the sweat and stink that comes with Baseball... Yeah that'll take some time, but like Wendy says "We wear our sweat and stink with pride around her. Embrace the stench of victory!" Don't worry Pacifica, you'll get used to it...eventually

[laura1633]

I get that some people aren't as sympathetic as others but damn sending the amount of hate lando is getting at any other driver thats in the running for champion or already a wdc winner and fans go down on the haters like a pack ah wild animals.

The guy had to delete his socials so he could get some peace after brazil and he said himself that he didn't go to sleep and had stayed awake for 38-40 hours because i get it you don't like the guy i don't like him all that much ether but damn give him a break.

Anyway thats my rant what are your thoughts on the hate landos getting, even though i know your a lestappen supporter i want to hear what you think

I don't think Lando is getting any more hate than other championship contenders have received. I think Max had dealt with some pretty disgusting comments and abuse over the years (by fans and the media). I just don't see how the situation is any different if I am being completely honest.

I have sympathy up to an extent. I don't think people should be subjected to hate online and I think it's awful if that is then negatively impacting their mental health. That goes for all drivers though, just because another driver appears 'strong' they shouldn't have to tolerate more hate than others. I have never liked the narrative that the hate Max gets is fine because he can 'deal with it', he shouldn't have to deal with it and nobody truly knows how someone is actually being impacted.

At the start of the year I was pretty much neutral on Lando but I have to admit that I have not liked the way he has spoken about a number of things this year. I don't think he has been particularly gracious when it comes to Max, in fact there have been occasions where he has pushed a certain narrative about Max being overly aggressive to an already rather hostile media. I think kindness and respect should work both ways.

Having said all that I personally wouldn't go on to any drivers social media to send them hate and I think fans should be able to support the drivers they choose without being abused.

I don't know if this comes across as harsh or uncaring because I don't mean it to be but I'm going to tag this anti just in case 😬

[aychama]

I knew it, Lambert is a shapeshifter that can change the fun bits at will! /joke

Different anon from the hwag one, btw

Lmao yea. Well you guys can imagine them having a make body and it will be fine, thats how I see them most of the time as well but their genetelia wont really matter other than in one part of the story where a character will try to use it against Lambert's inability to have a child with Narinder to hurt them and distance them away from Narinder 👍

[brights-place]

Okay so I watched the whole trolls trilogy and am down EMBARRASSINGLY BAD for Trollex. It’s ROUGH.

If possible (I’m sorry this is so highly specific) could I get Trollex x a male techno troll reader who is very sound sensitive, shy and antisocial but totally comes out of his shell and becomes super caring and nurturing to Trollex when they’re together? Especially how SCARED TROLLEX LOOKED WHEN THE ROCK TROLLS ATTACKED OMG!! I see a bubbly, confident always positive man and go “no I should care for and comfort him really” lol

Sorry if this rq is a mess—

Trollex X M! Techno S/O

Pairing: Trollex X S/O

Warnings: Lots of Fluff, Mild cursing

A/N: TROLLEX LOVER UNITE!! FUCK YEAHHHHHHH and oml I love this idea it's so cute anyways I haven't written for trolls in awhile *this was a draft I forgot to upload sorry pooks) - Trollex loves you and understood how you were shy and not very open yet he helps you grow out of it - The way he always beams at you when you speak up more coming out of your shell but he also panics when he saw you cover your ears fast due to how he accidentally boosted the music up - He slowly helps you get use to loud music and would take you out in small group parties which will expand that will help you out - As soon as you came out of your shell more he got so excited and his eyes sparkled when you pampered his face - the way you nurture and care for him how he does back to you cuddling and pampering you - Little dates every now and then as he does have royal duties he always escapes thats why lagoona always searches for you when she can't find Trollex - She always finds him being near you or draped over your back grinning

- Trollex and You have a special connection and when together you both act like little kids and often seen doing dumb things which makes some people confused

- King Trollex and you have a certain nickname or inside joke between them that is special for eachother

- Due to your appearance you have certain things that your very insecure about, and may be more self-conscious than you let on but trollex loves every part of you - When the rock trolls invaded he looked panicked so when you held his hand and stared ahead with an expression that said 'we got this' he couldn't help but feel prouder - When he was getting taken you slammed into a rock troll throwing yourself infront of him as you both got put into the same cage together - so here you were in the same cage holding trollex is hand with teary eyes as he cupped your face wiping your tears as he muttered to you in hushed voices - Barb didn't hesitate to hit the bars of your sell "Well look here" barb lips twitched up "Lovers? I assume don't worry rock n roll can help bind it stronger-" "Shut up... just let us be you ahev teh string " "hm... fine Put this techno troll in a different cell farther from trollex" - The panic in Trollex eyes as he grabbed your hands trying to keep you in his arms before you were dragged away from rock trolls into a separate cage horrified him as he was calling out for you as you were chucked into a separate cage hidden by many others

reblogs + comments are appreciated ⸜(｡˃ ᵕ ˂ )⸝♡

©brights-place 2024 — do not repost on another platform, copy, translate or edit my works! if you fit my DNI list please don't interact

[the-exiled-comic]

I feel for you man, so much

Like, reading through the comments on DA or otherwise, at some point I have to assume this is peoples first run in with the concept of a story or narrative

yeah im ngl this weird lack of understanding of things seemed to show up when covid started and it got really common for people to be overly online and stopped remembering boundaries. like dont get me wrong it certainly effected me too in a lot of ways, as isolation does to someone, but atleast i didnt go around asking ppl to tell me what i should think about a story

i think it just got really normal for people to rely on others to tell them what to think and it got bad enough that now its extended to stories or something. im not the only author to experience it nor will i be the last but its something that like, i dont like that we have solidarity for it lol it shouldnt be the issue that it is

asking questions and getting clarification is fine but you can tell the difference between "can you remind me? did i miss something?" and the "i cant come to my own conclusion, how was i supposed to feel about this?" and then the worst one "i came to my own conclusion thats factually wrong and im upset that nobody thinks im right"

[bl00dycraniumm]

Idk f theres been a lot of people sending in requests

Could you do a story with James where he had a bad day in the studio and he came home late so you comfort him? (if this makes sense)

JAMES HETFIELD

bad day, gn reader (🍒)

☆ 𝐀/𝐍; I WANNA HOLD HIM 😢 i hope this is what you wanted, if not send me a dm or another ask and ill fix it! IM IN MY ACTIVE ERA GUYS OMGG!!

☆ 𝐰𝐚𝐫𝐧𝐢𝐧𝐠𝐬; none.

i was laying in bed, waiting for him to get home. its 11:13 pm. james has been at the studio all day. of course, i missed him, but i knew he couldn't help it. they were trying to finish the first album they've done in years, while trying to work together as a band...and find a new bassist. i knew james had a lot on his plate, which is why i toughed it out, waiting for him.

i tried to wait for him every night, and i usually did. sometimes, i would fall victim to sleep before he got home, though. around about 11:40, he finally got home. i heard movement in the kitchen, guessing that he was probably eating the leftovers i put in the microwave for him.

usually, i tried to give him some space when he got home, before he came to bed, but tonight it took him a while. i decided to get up. when i got to the kitchen, his food was gone, and so was he. the tv was on in the living room, while he was sprawled out on the couch in his, recently, usual attire of jeans and a tanktop.

“you okay?” i ask, sitting on the edge of the couch. “mm fine.” he muttered. “you didn’t come to bed..” i say, gently cupping his cheek, running my thumb over his skin. his response is just a shrug. “do you want me to leave you alone?” i ask softly. i understood when he got distant or quiet. “no…lets go to bed.” i get up with him, following as he takes my hand.

i lay down with him, feeling his big hands on my waist, “how was your day?” he asked. “same stuff as everyday. how was your day?” i mumbled, my eyes meeting his in the dim light. “shitty.” he grumbled. i knew his days were stressful.

“what happened?” he laid down more, his head resting on my chest. “we still can’t finish a few songs…” my fingers gently card through his hair as i listen to him talk. “and lars is really pissing me off, more and more everyday. the therapy shit too.” i listen, kissing his head. “i'm sorry, hon. i wish it could be better."

"we may have a new bassist..i don't know yet." he mumbled, slowly relaxing more into the mattress. "thats great, james. what's his name?"

"robert. he's played for ozzy."

"well, if he's played for ozzy, he's gotta be great," i say as my fingers gently card through his hair, "have you guys been able to get to know him yet?" james nods, "a bit. he's alright." but i knew what that meant, the band was most likely going to hire robert, james was just being subtle. "i don't care, though, it's just another bassist."

my eyebrows furrow a bit, "hey, none of that..he's not just another bassist. he will be your bassist. this time, you need to do different, yeah? knock off the tough guy crap, treat him with respect." he sighs, "i know, i know."

"if you know, then you shouldn't have to worry about it. just let it happen. if he seems like a cool guy, i bet he really is." i say, "and for everything else going on, i know it sucks, but just remember you can always fall back on me. i'm always here."

"i know...i appreciate you more than you know." his arms wrap tighter around me as he nuzzles his face into the crook of my neck.

[qumiii]

it makes me sad how much people hate on the soul eater anime just because how different it is from the manga :(

i can understand being upset by it breaking off of the manga , and the manga having a more soulful ending , but to the point that its making you make others feel bad for enjoying the anime over the manga is petty

let others enjoy what they want to. you can dislike something , but dont make others feel bad for enjoying something you dont. i like both the manga and anime just fine , and id like to see soul eater get the fma brotherhood treatment too , but i dont really think that just because the endings are different ((and eventually the story itself too)) automatically makes the anime “bad”

[starry-bi-sky]

don't you want to be a cult leader? - danyal al ghul au

this is mostly a joke post but i thought it was funny and had to share so--

his first mistake was, obviously, inheriting his father's inability to see an injustice and stand still. -- actually, danyal's first mistake was his lair being so big. a mountainous island with a large temple in the center resembling his old home in Nanda Parbat? With sprawling foliage and rivers and streams and waterfalls galore? What was he going to do with all that space? Let it go to waste? He had plants there! Native trees of the ghost zone growing from the soil! He couldn't let it all be left unchecked!

So naturally after helping a fellow teenage assassin ghost -- who he later learns is named Akihiko, -- from Walker of all people, he sent them over to hang low at his lair until it was safe enough for them to wander around the Zone. Walker couldn't get through Danyal's astrofield if his life depended on it, and trust him -- he's tried. Danny was clearing out debris from his stupid transport vans for weeks.

Honestly it wasn't so bad, he and Aki really quickly became fast friends and Danny loves having a sparring partner close to his level again -- he hasn't had this much fun fighting since he left the League. Aki was very dedicated and levelheaded, the both of them clicked really well because of it.

Nonono, the real trouble began after Danyal met some long-passed League members and allowed them to come join his island as well. Apparently they had made a few enemies of the zone, and maybe Danyal still felt some loyalty to the League. He couldn't just let them be left to rot. Their zealotry could be overlooked so long as they kept it contained and helped him take care of his island.

And it.. snowballs from there? He meets a teen squire aptly calling himself Ambroise -- whether that was his living name or not is yet to be seen -- who died during feudal france, who is just about as dramatic and passionate as every french stereotype makes them out to be. He calls Danyal "my moon and great muse" -- which is both flattering and little uncomfortable, but Danyal's grown up in the League as the Grandson of the Demon Head, he is used to mild worship. he passes it off as nothing more, nothing less. -- and while his energy is overwhelming on the worst of days, he helps Danny draw out of his shell more in ways that Sam and Tucker still struggle with.

Him and Aki butt heads a lot, but the two seem to hold the other in at least some positive regard, so Danny doesn't worry too much about them fighting while he's gone. It only becomes a mild issue when Aki also begins calling Danny "my moon". It's a little sweet, so Danyal brushes it off.

Then he takes in a troupe of ghosts some time after he defeats Pariah Dark and they begin calling him "great one" just as the yetis do in the far frozen. This is where he meets the twins -- a pair of sibling ghosts who call themselves Trixie and Missy (short for Trick and Mislead) -- who aren't quite as passionate as Ambroise but more energetic than Aki. Eventually they also start calling Danyal "my moon" and attach themselves to his hip, even within the living. They like to hide in his shadow and cause trouble for the rest of the students. He makes sure they don't hurt anyone.

He's pretty sure Aki is jealous, same with Ambroise, but he can't be too certain other than the fact that they become much more lingering (re: clingy) whenever he visits the island.. Something he's trying to do much more often these days due to the increasing amount of people living there now. Since when did he become so popular?

Then there's Pēnelópeia from the Greater Athens, who ran away from home and joined his Island after he ran into her while she was being chased by Skulker -- and he's pretty sure the reason was because of her chimeric appearance. Her strange eyes and mismatched wings and lion's tail and talons. She assimilates into his friend group very easily, she gets along well with Ambroise and Trixie and Danny usually finds the three of them climbing the trees to pluck the most fruit from the top. They can fly and he knows it, but they prefer to climb.

Then finally there's silent poet Akkara who comes from ancient mesopotamia, who gets along most with Aki -- which is no surprise there considering their similar personality dispositions. he watches Aki and Danyal fight each other and leaves comments on this or that that he notices. He writes Danyal poems on clay tablets and leaves them by his room.

They're one big mismatched group of outcasts, and Danny's got the other ghosts on his island to tend to, because they're living on his island and he wants to be hospitable even if he struggles with that. But he spends the most of his time with them.

Sam and Tucker are making fun of him. Tucker jokingly tells him 'careful Danny, at this rate you're gonna start a cult'. Danny really wishes he had taken that joke more seriously.

He just. keeps. collecting people. Wayward souls lost in the zone, looking for shelter or refuge from something or other -- whether that be another hostile ghost, or a past afterlife, or just a purpose. Danyal finds them, he takes them in, offers them a place on his island until they are ready to leave. Many seldom do. He's not complaining -- he has the space, and it feels like it's only ever growing.

His close friends, his "inner circle" as he's heard the others call them, keep insistently calling him "my moon". He starts calling them his stars, because then it only feels fair. They're his stars, this is his constellation. It becomes a thing; little star halos begin forming behind their heads, picking them out from the rest. He loves them so much, it's hard to place. Sam and Tucker are also his stars, but they reside in the living realm, they're his tie to Life. Meanwhile, his friends here know what it's like to be dead, and sometimes its nice to relate.

Those living on his island keep calling him "Great One" and he's beginning to notice zealotry in their care for his island. He really, deeply appreciates it. His close friends gain nicknames -- as his stars, it's only natural for him to pick them out from the cluster in the skies. Akihiko, his Sirius and bright star. Trix and Missy, Castor and Pollux, the twins and troublemakers. Ambroise, his zealous Antares and close friend. Penelopeia, chimeric and loyal Vega. And Akkara, his Arcturus and strength.

It's ridiculous how long it takes for him to notice; he is, of course, a deadly trained assassin. He is meant to be observant -- and normally he is! But somehow this becomes a blind spot. One that becomes too big to be dealt with by the time he realizes it.

He should've noticed when Aki, his Sirius, stood beside him one day while Danyal looked over his island and saw the sprawling spirits carrying on about their afterlife and bowing to him as they saw him, and said: "I looked down into the depths when I met you; I couldn't measure it." They aren't one for flowing prose, it took him so off guard he was silent for over a minute before he finally spoke.

Danyal should've recognized devotion for what it is, and yet he didn't. He should've recognized it when Antares began spouting praises about him, crowing about his radiance and resplendence to the heavens. He just brushed it off as Ambroise being Ambroise. He should've recognized it when Trix and Missy nearly broke Dash's leg after he knocked Danyal's books out of his hands, he excused it as them being protective. Of them coming from times where such violence may have been customary -- after all, that's what he used to be like. What he was still like, sometimes, when his emotions nearly got the better of him.

He should've noticed it when the people living on his island followed his word like gospel, looked at him like he hung the stars in the sky. When his friends gifted him a shawl with the moon phases delicately embroidered into it, with silver, shimmering thread and moving stars lovingly stitched into it. Their constellations seen clear as day in the dark fabric. When he found small shrines dedicated to him -- but they lacked any image of him beyond stones carved to look like moons, so he ignored it. When the religious imagery began popping up.

He really, really should've noticed it when a bunch of cultists accidentally summoned Antares, and Antares had turned to him when he arrived and called them heretics. But he was so centered on the fact that they had kidnapped one of his stars, that he hadn't paid much attention to what Ambroise had said.

Sages say that faith is blind, they should also say faith in you is even blinder.

It really only hits him one afternoon while he's sitting in Sam's room studying with Tucker, Missy and Trixie lounging at his feet, Aki sat on his right, Penelopeia braiding his hair, Ambroise draped against him, and Akkara lurking over him. Its one of the rare few times they're all in one room together.

It hits him like a bolt of lightning. He looks up from his textbook. "Oh Ancients," he says in no amounting shock. Everyone looks up to him.

"I've become my grandfather."

[lucabyte]

i feel like people are sleeping on the occam's razor situation of how buckwild it is to outright accuse a guy of being a clone of your friend even if you DO have a lot of circumstantial evidence. there's other options is what im saying. they could just be like. a guy. that's a sensible deduction. you should explore that deduction. ignore my shirt that reads I <3 RED HERRINGS.

i still think odile has the correct theory on lock but she's smart enough to know it needs like... a real smoking gun to be able to bring it up without sounding insane.

anyway. (mirabelle voice) i know its rude to speculate but has anyone else noticed the grieving? they seem to be grieving. does anyone have any thoughts on the grieving? i have some thoughts on the grieving.

[dukeofthomas]

I find the fact that the confrontation at the end of UTRH is often summarized as Jason asking Bruce to kill the Joker for him fascinating.

Because that's not what happened.

Jason holds a gun up to Joker's head, gives Bruce another, and tells him that if Bruce doesn't do something (shoot Jason), he will kill Joker.

Jason doesn't give the gun to Bruce so that he would shoot Joker. He isn't expecting Bruce to pull the trigger on the clown. He's asking Bruce to do nothing. To be inactive. Because that will still be a choice, and despite having done nothing, everybody clearly agrees that Bruce would still, at least in part, be responsible for Joker's death.

...And to me, this moment is a kind of- microcosm, of the rest of Jason's point. Because after being captured and carted off to Arkham, the villain will escape again, and will kill more people. The only way to truly prevent that from happening would be to kill them; Bruce refuses to do so, and I respect his right to choose such a thing for himself, but it is still a choice, and if we agree that Bruce's inaction during the confrontation would leave him at least partly responsible for the Joker's death, then we must also agree that his inaction in permanently preventing the Rogues from killing more people means he is also, partly, responsible for all of those deaths.

[bacchuschucklefuck]

doing chibi is a good design exercise bc it forces u to think on shapes n essential details, essentially thumbnailing ur designs. its also a terrible design exercise bc it ends up looking cute no matter what

[deoidesign]

Wearing your boyfriend's jacket

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

I'm sorry I let down my guard.

[First] Prev <–-> Next

[seadeepspaceontheside]

*pulls up mic to mouth* I have a few things to say being new into dreamling these are my thoughts not anything else take them as they are. I appreciate Tom Sturridge play Dream as a giant baby who suppresses his tears when bullied.

two, Hob and Dream are real freaks and are terrible for anyone else. No they can not do better than each other. And yes Dream/Morpheus is a pillow princess top or bottom. no I will not be taking questions or feedback. three, Hob utter look of awe at Dream in their first meeting...Hob was utterly entranced by Dream not knowing he was bi as fuck and down to monster fuck that fucking eldritch like horror of a concept. As well as his fucking weird ass squint near nut look.

For my thought process for Hob is that he doesn't realize he loves Dream until around 1700*