#that voted no or that was even like neutral

[camp-mithril-lake]

“Megatron, on board the Lost Light? On board me? Megatron?” sputtered Rodimus. He rebooted his holoform’s audial sensors a few times, just to ensure he was hearing Ratchet correctly.

“It was either you or Metroplex,” said Ratchet. He was still staring at the new “Rodpod” in the hangar, aghast.

“What, did Metroplex say no already?”

Ratchet sighed. “We can lock him up if he steps out of line. But Prime wants to give him a bit of rope, and some responsibility, to see if he’s really on the level.”

“He wants Megatron running loose in me? Not even in my brig?”

“Well, we’re not going to tell him about your ‘condition.’ Like most of the crew, he’ll just think you’re a neutral that avoided the whole war and didn’t want to return to Cybertron.”

“Ah yes. Megatron: famous for getting along with neutrals,” He pointed at Ratchet, “I’ve heard stories from Drift, you know.”

“And if anything, Drift probably toned down those stories. Still, as a precaution, we’re dosing him with Fool’s Energon.”

Rodimus fumed, crossing his arms.

Ratchet sighed, “Look, nobody’s going to make you bring along anyone you don’t want along. Especially after the debacle with Prowl.”

Rodimus winced, “About that. Could I get some advice?”

“Oh, Primus, you don’t have someone else locked up, do you? Who is it, Killmaster?

“No! Nothing like that, it’s just- here, take this.” Rodimus materialized a datapad and handed it to Ratchet.

Ratchet looked at it and frowned, “Is this from the ‘anonymous’ vote you took to see who wanted you removed as captain? I see there’s a list of names attached.”

“Well,” Rodimus scratched the back of his head. “I was thinking of using it to see who to kick off the mission, but…”

“But you realized that would be petty, especially since most of the crew doesn’t even know that would be possible.”

“Pretty much.”

“If I were Ultra Magnus, I’d be reminding you that Cybertronian laws still apply to you, even though you’re not an Autobot.”

“And trying to coerce me into another lecture.”

“Coerce,” Ratchet scoffed. “He’s been nothing but soft with you.”

Rodimus made a face.

“I’m serious. Ask one of the wreckers if you don’t believe me. Besides, this list is wrong.”

“How do you know?”

“I’m not on it.”

“You voted against-” Rodimus sputtered, “But you know that’s impossible!”

“You can’t leave the ship,” Ratchet shook his head. “But, you need to listen to Ultra Magnus’ advice more. He’s not going to make you do anything, but if he tells you to do something, you should still do it. Ancient titan or not, you’ve only got the memories- and personality- of a new spark. I know you’re excited about going wherever you’d like, but you can learn a lot from following someone else for once.”

“Fine. I’ll try and listen more. And if Ultra Magnus wants me to help Autobots, then I guess I can bring along Megatron. I’m still captain, though.” Rodimus leaned against the railing. He froze. “Wait, what did you mean by Optimus giving Megatron more responsibility?”

“Well,” said Ratchet. “I suppose nobody would ever accuse Megatron of being soft-”

***

(For context, I'm thinking Ultra Magnus was sent along as a mentor a la TFA or to see if he'd be a suitable cityspeaker. However, he feels too awkward to order around someone who hasn't been able to make their own choices for millions of years and isn't an "official" autobot, either.)

Oh, I love ALL of this. Ultra Magnus as a potential cityspeaker and being soft on Rodimus is lovely. Especially given the fact Rodimus isn't an Autobot plus Magnus isn't exactly being open about his identity as well. All on top of the fact Rodimus has only had free will for maybe a thousand years so he's sensitive about any authority he didn't specifically select.

Ratchet and Rodimus's relationship is fun!

The use of the holoform is perfect and the fact it is a secret from the crew is 100/100. You perfectly captured the vibes I have for this AU.

[samueldays]

I am once again going to bring my "nontheistic religion" angle: many programs funded by USAID were ideologically partisan and particular in a manner that's akin to violating the separation of church and state.

The First Amendment was conceived in an era where most people's ideology expressed itself through a theistic religious denomination, and so ideological peace took the form of religious peace. Fast forward three hundred years after Westphalia, and there's a lot more nonreligious ideologies around, violating that peace and going "well the rule doesn't apply to us". But the First Amendment is not a literalist technicality that exists for its own sake, the First Amendment was a way of lowering the stakes by having everyone agree to leave the federal government as a sort of neutral ground.

There's some things that are edge cases and disagreements about what's in the national interest, and then there's other things like spending federal money on a program to instruct people to refrain from ~~blasphemous words and symbols that offend the priests~~ gender-binary terms like "ladies and gentlemen" that offend the neogenderists.

it's related to what OP says about "democracy",

Whatever people personally feel, it has never been the conceit of even a pure democracy that you, personally, will get everything you want. But, even though this is not at pure democracy, it's not not a democracy, and you can only have one group doing things that a huge minority or even slim but comfortable majority fucking hate for so long.

but I want to add the point that it's not just a minority policy, it's a particular ideology and a distinct side in the culture war, a minority using the government for a type of thing that there formerly was an agreement to not use the government for.

As an analogy, imagine that the Calvinist Christians specifically had subverted a stream of government funding and was using it to teach Calvinism's Five Points doctrine, or TULIP. (TULIP stands for: Total depravity, Unconditional election, Limited atonement, Irresistible grace, Perseverance or Predestination.) Imagine this was presented as official-looking US instruction, too.

There's a grey area about a secular-ish government doing vaguely Christian-ish things in a country like America where the majority is some flavor of Christian and democratically votes for those things. But the Calvinists using USAID to specifically teach the Five Points would be a definite First Amendment violation, and if the Calvinists were forcefully cut off, their enemies would cheer with good reason. Cries of "collateral damage" would ring hollow as long as the "damage" was metaphorical damage to funding streams rather than literal bombs.

That, I think, is part of why many right-wingers are cheering for Trump forcefully cutting by executive order: many far-left USAID programs are perceived as not merely bad decisions that lost their majority, but as deeply illegitimate programs that should never have happened in the first place. USAID has done so much illegitimate shit, so much siphoning of money for random crap that a crude man might say "burn it to the ground" and a more refined man might say that USAID should lose the benefit of the doubt and undergo a round of zero-based budgeting.

The analogy is not perfect. Neogenderism is not exactly like Calvinism. But I think there's important similarity to notice, and fuzziness around the edge of the category "religion".

Consider the name "Catholic Church" for a moment. It's a proper name and a loanword from Greek katholikon. Instead of borrowing the name you can translate it, and you get, more or less: "International Community". Ha ha, funny joke, also entirely serious parallell between two vast organizations that claimed global moral-legal authority, were most influential in Europe while wielding power around the world, pretending to be egalitarian and universalist but in practice centered around the interests of the wealthy country with a legacy of imperialism where the HQ was located...

Why is one a "religion" and the other not? Is it because Catholicism is theistic? Buddhism is a non-theistic religion. (For those wanting to say Buddhism genuinely shouldn't be considered a religion but a philosophy: may I draw your attention to Naraka, the bad afterlife where Buddhists say murderers will be flensed, crushed, and splashed with molten metal for a billion squillion kajillion years.) Is it because of something more general like belief in an immaterial essence of... wait, that's back to including neogenderism.

Regardless of the definition boundaries on that specific word: If you generalize the 'no state religion' rule for a less theistic era you get something like 'no state ideology'. Federal spending to tell people they need to stop saying "ladies and gentlemen" is an establishment of state ideology, which has similar failure modes as an establishment of state religion.

Now, in abstract principle, one can argue that there's no such thing as a completely non-ideological government. The modus ponens conclusion is that avoiding a state religion implies anarchism, the modus tollens conclusion is becoming comfortable with a state religion because you're going to have one anyway. :^)

But in practical matters and the short term, one can be less ideological by issuing Trump's executive order that trans and gender programs must shut down immediately. Good move in the short term. We'll see where the long term goes.

One of the things that people have consistently failed to internalize about Trump as a phenomenon is that all the things people hate are the things people love. That is the appeal.

When you complain about how everything he is doing is wrong, you are telling them that it's working. Every time you point out a hypocrisy or an abuse of power or decency, you are adding fuel to the fire.

As we careen through 2.0, it is important to bear in mind that collectively, this administration is about revenge. It is revenge for the pandemic, it's revenge for 2020, it's revenge for pronouns, etc. Take a brief sampling of the "cry harder" memes. Oh you think the corruption is bad? You think Trump's cronies have conflicts of interest? What about Anthony Fauci? What about the ATF? What about the 2020 election? What about, what about, what about? Cry harder.

Advertising that they are hurting people is advertising that they are doing the right thing and should continue doing it, because hurting people is the point. Complaining about the hurt, complaining about the stress, this tells them the process is working, and has to continue.

Because they want to hurt people who are not on their team.* It is not a byproduct, it is a positive feature. It is the purpose.

And sure, there are a few people who will say, oh, no, this is so dramatic, he is just joking, you are taking it too seriously, relax, relax.

The thing about that is, it's partly true. The media has always been committed to painting everything the administration does in the worst most lurid light possible. And we cannot pretend that the left-of-center, writ large, is innocent. And Trump, on balance, has been probably the funniest politician in American history. We know he has a sense of humor.

But when they tell you he's just joking and you need to relax and it's all an exaggeration, it is important to remember that what they are telling you is to trust him, as they trust him. Trust that he won't do the thing he said he would do, because when he said that, that part was a joke. Trust the scary parts are jokes. Trust that he and his team are doing the right thing. Believe, as they believe.

That is a tall ask.

Now you may ask, well, now what? Honestly, as far as I can tell the answer is nothing, it's too late. Every time anyone has had a chance to pause or walk back they've doubled down. We've played all our cards. Save what you can, and think about the kinds of values you want your children to have and how you will raise them because this generation is set on its trajectory.

*but what do you mean by hurt?

I honestly think this is a huge variable. I think many or even most Republicans for whom this is appealing genuinely think that they do something and there is some bluehaired undertcut she/they who is coping and seething sooo hard and crying about it and then just walks off the stage, having completed the performance of being "owned" in their imagination. That is to say I seriously doubt that they think there are any real world consequences to anything that they do. Cutting off foreign aid, firing millions of government employees, I think these are just fake numbers, all calculated to anger that she/they who they have pictured in their mind.

Generally speaking they regard emotional distress about things they don't value as temper tantrums that exist on a spectrum of amusing to annoying.

That is to say I do think a lot of them honestly think that everything about all this is fundamentally harmless. It's not really hurting anyone in a meaningful way, at least not anyone important.

I don't know how you'd break through that.

Some of them are definitely malevolent, but as always it's hard to know how many or to what degree.

[rhythmic-idealist]

Inspired by @crimeronan - female characters poll, but ~morally dubious~ and/or ~bitchy~ edition

…..I feel like these are still pretty vanilla choices. and then Aranea Fucking Serket. ajshdhdbfjhfnhf

Kitkat making fun of me as I bemoan how bad I am at liking bitches

Tallys you’ve never done anything wrong in your fucking life and I am saying that with my CHEST

Yes both halves of Cinta/Vel (Andor) are on here. I can’t tell who gets more fandom hate

Rika didn’t make the list because she’s literally eleven years old. ……I say, putting Nanami on the list. No but. Does Rika even have haters.

But unfortunately I may have set up a Maki sweep

[stuffedsand]

Hi milgramblr questions guy is back

(try not to pick none, for my data's sake. None is there cuz t2s verdicts are more agreed on than t1 was)

There will be a second poll look out for that

EDIT: feel free to rb with reasonings!! I love seeing those

[taffywabbit]

Thank you for spreading that thing about voting. The rhetoric I've been seeing from a lot of the left, at least on here, has mirrored 2016 really closely and it's getting me extremely nervous.

yeah considering how many self-destructive doomer-y "it's not even worth voting, nothing but DIRECT ACTION can save us now" posts i've seen cross my dash over the past couple years i figured it was probably smart for me to spread it when i saw it going around again. i'm not american myself, but i have a lot of loved ones down there who really especially cannot afford a republican win this year, and i'll do whatever little i can to help them stay safe-ish. (not to mention i DO still share a land border with the US, and a vicious autocrat god-emperor would probably not be a great next-door neighbor for me either)

[buddiebitch]

opinions on Tommy

sorry i just like posting polls

[here-there-were-dragons]

i'm seeing three times as many people bitching in the tag about the very idea that someone might not like this breed than i see people actually expressing unambiguous dislike for this breed

[jupiterswasphouse]

Unless the third mob ends up being an insect or arachnid I'm super excited for, if the crab loses the Minecraft mob vote I will sob and cry

[skrunksthatwunk]

no this is not an important topic BUT im curious. note: i forgot to put a "i literally don't care i just do whatever" option but. pick im bald for that i guess

[poppyseed799]

Be honest, polls are anonymous after all

[ourceliumnetwork]

huh... the way my parents showed me the world worked was really kind of fucked up, it's no fucking wonder i have an anxiety disorder frankly.

[confinesofmy]

how you gonna vote your way out of something you didn't even vote your way into...

[jackass-jones]

My ass was trying so hard not to jump up and down with glee playing yttd with my sister and getting to the shin reveal I was like MY GUY MY FUNNY LAD MY SILLY RABBIT

[stuffedsand]

There's something interesting to be said about the opinions of different fanbases based on culture and how it affects the votes but it's late and I can't write it out too much so only one example for today: amane

Down under the cut so if it gets too long it won't affect anyone's scrollin

Also warning the tags are long on this one

- <- this indicates a new talking point

Basically I think the jp/more asian parts of the fandom tend to lean towards greater good (amane guilty to protect shidou/mahiru/fuuta because if shidous incapacitated in any way someone's dying, mahiru is prone to dying any moment, fuuta is prone to cult mindset rn). Despite my non japanese speaking ass not being able to gather direct evidence for this, I use those surrounding me (asian in asian country) as evidence; namely, how they're mostly amane guilty voters

-Now I'm not saying my personal take but the reason given for guilting her is well. As much as it will cause her more woe it's one way of guaranteeing the safety of the prison. Shidou is the only medical professional after all, and she's "completely hostile" towards him, acc to jackalope. And she doesn't need to overpower him; shes smart, and could sabotage his equipment or just like. Go for his hands to incapacitate him. I doubt he'd fight back.

-Alternatively, it's because it would cause her to fall back on believing she's right. Telling her she's forgiven with how she's acting would cause her to believe her persistance and dedication to this (harmful) mindset is what got her forgiven in the first place

-Meanwhile more western? English fanbase ig I'm not too sure of demographic, but the English speaking side tends to focus on how it affects her. Because of the belief that another guilty verdict will cause more harm to her, an innocent verdict is the obvious solution. What I've seen is the greater focus on what caused the murder over the murder itself and the effects of an innocent verdict on others and then her beliefs. A focus on the past over what she's promised to do in the present and future perhaps. Idk.

-Another reason for the difference could. Possibly be how punishment is viewed? Western countries have much more stigma over any form of punishment but in Asian countries it's normal. Now while I'd say physical punishment isn't the way to go, the refusal of punishment shouldn't be rewarded (imo) but that's all I'll say on it.

-The English fanbase also focuses a lot on how young amane is and how her circumstances were terrible and all that. Those around me tend to focus more on her thoughts around the crime, what she believes the crime was for and how in the right she thinks she is. This may also be the cause of the moral grandstanding I see so often (ie. If you vote amane guilty you're a baaad person) (I don't agree with this btw. That's stupid this is fiction don't insult others over an opinion)

What I will say is the English speaking side is more sympathetic towards amane. They (y'all?) Take her situation into a lot of consideration, and focus on her age as a large factor. Whereas those around me and I assume might be close to the views of the japanese fanbase are more objective, looking at what harm she could cause and what's the greater of the two evils, as well as what she's going to do with the verdict (ie. Use the inno verdict as her doctrines are correct and very right).

There's slight thought given to her age and circumstance of course, by it that's not the main concern rn. Given the current situation, most of my milgram voting friends stay certain that an innocent verdict will not end well, hence the guilty vote. I mean I have a couple friends that feel bad for guiltying her because of her circumstance, but do it anyway cuz it's for the better. My opinion is that she should've been innocent trial one, since we wouldn't have known the concequences, but it's too late now and an innocent will cause more harm overall

tldr asian fanbase from experience focus on the crime itself + what they're gonna do with that experience whereas eng speaking fanbase focus on the circumstances surrounding the crime and on judging only the crime

In myyy opinion. Judging only the crime based on your interpretation isn't how the system should be working, it should take into consideration the prisoners' attitudes and how the prisoner perceives the crime as well.

I hope this was coherent I typed it out at 11pm and went to bed immediately after and I've barely edited anything cuz awake me is less coherent than half asleep me

Also hope this was an interesting post? This topic is interesting to me but I explain better in speaking over typing so it's probably hard to read but I hope this topic scritches y'all's brains like it does mine :)

[bmpmp3]

a bit of a mild milgram fan (i adore the music and music videos but i still havent checked out a lot of the dramas but i still vote because i like being involved LOL) and i feel like giving my unsolicited opinions on season 2 so far. even though it makes perfect sense based off what i see from the fanbase that Futa was voted innocent BUT as someone who was largely neutral but uninterested (aside from his awesome song) in his character in season 1, season 2 made me actually really REALLY like him but in particular way where i want to see that little twerp squirm so im SO sad no one else voted him guilty q-q i WANTED to see him suffer for the NARRATIVE

also I think Mu should be voted innocent because she slays