#thai bl pulp

[absolutebl]

These Weeks in BL - This Is Very Late, Or Right on Time depending on where you sit on the temporal debate team

Sorry I got distracted by work. In my defense: I was paid.

Organized, in each category, with ones I'm enjoying most at the top.

March 2024 Wk 1 & 2

Ongoing Series - Thai

Cherry Magic (Sat YouTube grey) ep 12 fin - Unfortunately, there was singing. But what can we do?

A soft charming warm hug of a show about crushes and mind reading and self worth, with no-fuss execution from a consummate team and an OG lead pair proving why they remain eternal and deserve to grow up. Look, here’s the thing, Cherry Magic is a great Thai BL in its own right not comparing it to any other iteration. But even when I do compare (and I've seen all the Cherries and read the manga) it still stands. This is a great show, a solid adaptation, and a pleasing take on the original yaoi. I personally like it better than the Japanese live action, but I think that’s because I just really like Thai BL and I LOVE TayNew. I doubted them for this and I shouldn’t have. They did a great job, as did the sides. I will say all the kissing was both present and better than any other iteration. As it should be. Definitely one for the rewatch rotation. 9/10 

Deep Night (Thurs iQiyi) ep 1 of 8 (10?) - Damn it, I love it. And I don't want to. It’s more classic BL than I thought it would be, and far less Only Friends or Playboyy. (Thank fuck.) We got a big cast and a lot of tropes going down out the gate, including SMITTEN popular hot guy versus nerd with secret identity. (Incidentally, Khem did drop into rude / informal when arguing with his Aunt and defending his ma. Bratty boy.) The leads have good chemistry (First always does), and everyone is very pretty. The main boy reminds me of J-Min's role (and look) in Love Class 2. I am entertained. (And faintly wonder why this isn't a MosBank vehicle.)

To Be Continued (Thai C3 Thailand grey) eps 1-3 of 8- High school sweethearts who had a bad break up reunite a decade later when both of them have full time jobs (celebrity & doctor). Dr Ji is a familiar face (hi Dream it's been a LONG time) and everyone is way too old for high school, but I guess I prefer this to child actors?

I'm enjoying it, actually, the cast may be older but they're solid as a result and the chemistry is on point for a pulp. Whether our celebrity is on the DL or cheating or something else remains to be seen but he sure is smitten. The way he LOOKS at Ji = hawt.

Frankly? Celebrity/doctor is a good pairing and this is a solid Thai BL. I hope we have a nice angsty reason for the break-up and we're not in another Promise situation. I like the sides too. Carry on, little show, I'm disposed to be pleased with you.

City of Stars (Fri iQIYI) eps 5-6 of 12 - I am enjoying it, actually. It’s incredibly silly. But I don’t really mind. STOP SINGING. 

1000 Years Old eps 3-4 of 12 - I love that these kids basically adopted a vampire pet. And one of them accidentally got a vampire boyfriend. This suddenly turned from a PNR into a family drama about domestic gays opening a food stall and I'm not mad about it. Nothing makes sense and I don't care because... rainbow umbrella!

A Secretly Love (Thai WeTV grey) eps 1 of 10 - I don’t love it. I make no bones about the fact that a pining uke rarely works for me, especially if he’s younger (cute supportive besties not withstanding), the power dynamic isn’t good. I always like Kimmon, he’s a stiff actor but v pretty. (I shallow af.) Still it’s time he started acting his age… literally. Having to watch ads again as well… for this? Ooof. I'm not sure I'm strong enough.

Ongoing Series - Not Thai

Perfect Propose (Japan Fri Gaga) ep 6 fin - It was very cute. I liked that there was uke instigated kisses. However I have some reservations on this one, much as I enjoyed it.

Adapted from Mayo Tsurakame’s manga, production team included Tadaaki Horai (My Love Mix-Up!) and Takeshi Miyamoto (Old Fashion Cupcake). Essentially Perfect Propose was about finding hope in a person when all other hope is gone. This show focuses on apathy, and perforce is somewhat apathetic and un-engaging especially as the pacing was off (and with only 6 episodes? now) However, this is countered by great visuals, good archetypes, and a clean story of childhood sweethearts reuniting after loosing their way in life. I landed on 8/10 mostly for a demanding younger seme and some great kisses. 

Unknown (Taiwan Tues Youku YouTube) eps 2-3 of 11 - Oh it’s great. I love it. I’m still worried by how gritty and "Taiwanese short-esk" it feels, but wow does this hit all my favorite taboo tropes and buttons. I also adore the little found fam, they the cutest gay older bros ever. The younger one who wants so bad to grow up and take care of the older one and pushes himself because into self sacrifice that’s the only model of love he has. ARGH. BOYS. Why so much pain, just smooch already! Sheesh. It's on YouTube for some of us, here's the schedule.

AntiReset (Taiwan Fri Viki/Gaga) eps 6-7 of 10 - They remain questionably cute, and that is probably going to be my ultimate review of this show. Awe cameo! (Hi babies, hope the ghosts are leaving you alone.) The irony does not escape me that the person in the relationship with the most emotional acumen is, in fact, the robot and not the human. I'm sure that's meant to be deep.

Love is Better the Second Time Around AKA Koi wo Suru nara Nidome ga Joto (Japan Gaga) ep 1 of 6 - A tortured second chance romance featuring a reported and a successful celebrity(?) academic. The kid actors look nothing like their adult counterparts, but they do look much younger. So, okay. Ah the utter embarrassment of first love. Oh I like it a lot, so very messy Japanese emo. Sigh. Here we go again.

Although I Love You and You AKA Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yaro ka (Japan Thurs Gaga) eps 8-9 of 10 - They are a cute couple. They both trying so hard and so confused and awkward and polite in trying to understand each other but TERRIBLE at communication. 

My Strawberry Film (Japan Thurs Gaga) eps 3-4 of 8 - I don’t know how I feel about this. But I do know it’s not my thing because it’s not BL. I’ll finish it because it’s short but… meh. 

It's done, ready to binge, but I have no time

What Did You Eat Yesterday Season 2 AKA Kinou Nani Tabeta? Season 2 (Japan Gaga) 10 eps - will binge when I have any spare time. 2024 is crazy busy for me so far.

The Servant and the Young Master (Vietnam YouTube) - I will try when I have a window of time.

Began Beginning (Myanmar YouTube) - A Burmese BL? @heretherebedork vouched for it, so I will watch eventually.

It's airing but...

Dead Friend Forever (Thai iQIYI) - finished it's run and I won't be watching it. It's horror with BL elements and the ending, well, let's just say that's a "no thank you" from me.

Ossans Love Season 2 (Japan Gaga) - 5 years later, will anything have changed? This is Japan so… no. I'm not watching this. I dislike this franchise.

Time the series (Tue Gaga/YT) 10 eps - dropped it at ep 4.

Takumi-kun (2023) movie version AKA Takumi-kun Series 6: Nagai Nagai Monogatari no Hajimari no Asa released on FOD 3/5/2024. The original project was a 6 ep series. Having seen all the previous iterations and read the (terrible) yaoi I admit to being intrigued. If anyone finds eng subbed please let me know with a link in comments or in a DM? For those intersted in this show, probably the world's first true BL franchise I chat all about it here.

Gossip

James Supamongkon has withdrawn from the series Love Upon A Time and the NetJames pair is no more. Net Siraphop will continue with the historical BL project alongside a new partner. Can I interest you in Tod Techit... almost as pretty, legs for days...

The Complete Chronology of the Assault Case Against GMMTV Actor Win Pawin

I'm merely directing your attention to these articles, I do not wish for discussion of this content on this blog. Please don't ask for further info, I don't know the answer, follow the link that's why it's there.

Next Week Looks Like This:

Still Coming

3/21 Two Worlds (Thai IQIYI) 10 eps - announced here. One of those "he's dead Jim so time travel" thingames staring MaxNat. I'm over them but Asia flipping loves this trope and I do adore MaxNat. Phupha (Gun) and Khram (Nat) love each other but Phupha is murdered. Then Khram is pulled to a parallel world where, 12 years ago, Khram and Tai (Max) were in love. However, Khram was killed by Thai’s dad. Now Tai finds alter-Khram apparently alive. But then there is ALSO an alter-Phupha (played by Gun Thanawat who is Khom the repressed butler bodyguard from Unforgotten Night).

Upcoming BLs for 2024 are listed here. This list is not kept updated, so please leave a comment if you know something new or RP with additions.

THIS WEEK’S BEST MOMENTS

How flipping adorable is this vampire with his big gay umbrella? SUCH A DORK and we got more vampire dorks coming.

Thailand has found its vampire line and it's awkward and geeky and quite cheerful. 'Bout what we expected, to be fair. It's a good look for them.

And vampires.

In other news...

That's your random moment of thirst, Lim Jimin shirtless AKA my Just B bias (I mean, I could talk about how good his extensions are and how I love a husky voice in Kpop but really, just LOOK at him). I'm very very very shallow, remember? Full vid is here.

Why am I mentioning Lim Jimin (aside from the obvious)? If Just B doesn't break soon, I could some of them transitioning to BL. Jimin in particular would be a win for us, obvs.

Also, can we talk about Bain (my bias wrecker) KILLING it on Build Up? I had no idea he was that good. Anygay, this has been your Kpop end note.

Seriously tho, is ANYONE else watching Build-Up?

(Last week - well, 2 weeks ago)

Streaming services are listed how I'm (usually watching) which is with a USA based IP

The tag bragade: @doorajar

If ya wanna be tagged each week leave a comment and I will. Easy peesy.

[serfergs]

I’m sorry but this man pushed you into his apartment, loomed over you threateningly, took off his shirt to show you a bullet hole, admitted he’s murdered who knows how many people and you’re upset he lied to you about THE SHABU PLACE???

[absolutebl]

I LOVE this pulp! It’s the only one I have ever given a 9/10 

Here’s my quick pitch: 

My Ride (2022)

Tropes: love triangle, workplace setting, soft, sunshine/sunshine

Gaga and now YouTube!

Thai BL grew up with this pulp (the first ever to make my end of year top 10). It’s a truly lovely and special little show featuring the extremely rare cinnamon roll couple, plus mature explorations of relationships using one of the softest, sweetest and most innocent friends to lovers vehicles. 

Kindly, overworked doctor meets broken-hearted motorcycle taxi driver in an “other side of the tracks” slow burn romance. The support cast is excellent, making for great friendship groups and family dynamics. 

With honest queer rep that adds to, but doesn’t impede, the story, and genuine conversation about the nature of class, wealth, and classism, not to mention communication, honesty, and respect for boundaries, you can’t go wrong with this show. 

In other news, I am a sucker for a single dimple. Full review.

This is the first from the same screen writer (and behind the scenes team) that is bringing us La Pluie. 

A very under appreciated little gem of a BL. Give it a try!!! 

It’s heeeeeeeeere https://youtu.be/wMvG1LO23IM

My Ride begins re-airing on YouTube today, with a new episode dropping every Saturday and Sunday. It’s a wonderful show that not nearly enough people have seen due to limited distribution, but now it will be much more broadly available. (cc @absolutebl)

I know @bengiyo @ginnymoonbeam @wen-kexing-apologist @manogirl @callipigio @chickenstrangers @neuroticbookworm are watching along. Who else is joining us?

ETA: Full playlist with the videos in correct order is here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwr0z8ElcoF9HCchNUpXOWgH6lJb-LBXu

[heretherebedork]

OMG Vampire Trailer

Y'all, I cannot wait. Look at these idiots! I love goofy vampires so much and that no one is taking this super seriously and it's just fun and all the playfulness but also the little touch of serious behind it all. And the familiar faces! @absolutebl Pulp. Absolute vampire pulp.

[iguessitsjustme]

The problem with watching Dinosaur Love is that I love it and now I’m upset I can’t just binge it and I need to wait

[le-trash-prince]

I will say, Kidnap is turning out to be as pulpy as I was initially hoping it would be.

It's fast-paced in a way that BL rarely is—our hero finds himself in a new predicament every week, struggling to balance his situational needs with his moral code. He's fighting off loan sharks, his brother has health issues, he's struggling with a kidnapping that he's not emotionally committed to, he's falling for his target, he's getting involved with the mafia, and soon enough, the police will be on his tail.

It may not be as heavily sexual as some pulp can be, but Kidnap bears markers of erotic and romantic pulp stories—it's tinged with situational bondage, we have a sadistic villain, and its romance is built on a contrast of high danger and emotional tenderness. As a romantic lead, Min is both strong and vulnerable, while Q plays a "damsel in distress" who is smart, snarky, and more capable than he seems.

Because I'm not fluent in Thai, I'm not comfortable speaking to the wittiness or snappiness of the dialogue, but the show is funny, and the comedy brings a levity that such a fast-paced story needs. Not all shows dealing with heavy topics like loan sharks or mafia need a lighthearted or silly aspect, and often this can be out of place, but when you are moving as quickly as Kidnap, those heavier elements can feel like a constant barrage.

I won't declare that the show was for-sure going for a pulp feeling, but it certainly bears the markers of a lot of pulp literature. Pulp weeklies (which, incidentally, made a lot of their money off of advertisements x), needed stories that would keep their readers coming back week after week. How will Min get out of this predicament now?

Overall, I hope that people can take Kidnap as it is without judging it for failing to achieve something that it's not trying to accomplish. Pulp may not be for everyone, and that's fine. It's certainly not high-brow literature, it was made to be accessible to the masses, but many great writers got their start in pulp, and the pulp era had a lasting impact on modern storytelling. Personally, I tend to really love things with strong pulp influences, so I am being well fed by Kidnap. Maybe that will change in the future, but so far I have enjoyed each episode more than the last.

[absolutebl]

ah my old friend

Make It Right | s01e06

Thai Drama - 2016, 12 episodes

EP:- 1 : 2 : 3 : 4 : 5 : 6 : 7 : 8 : 9 : 10 : 11 : 12  

[waitmyturtles]

I thought last week's episode of Kidnap had a much stronger core to it than this week's -- but I don't *think* I'm going to technically complain about it, because I think it was intentional.

Last week's episode clarified (at least at that moment) that Kidnap was playing around with pulp and camp, which, for GMMTV's ever-present demands on romance-above-all-else, eases the cheese on some of this episode's more commercially lovey moments. I loved this piece by user le-trash-prince (via @lurkingteapot) that went into some origin frameworks on pulp and how Kidnap is playing around with pulp tropes. This show is literally putting a bondage kink side-by-side with Series Y/Thai BL tropes, which we got SO MUCH OF today (man, that Thai rainfall is really killer).

What I missed in this episode, and what we got out of last week's episode, was the spotlight into Min's "work life," but we know we're gonna get back to it next week, and I see that the series felt the need to push the developing romance forward so that the future boyfs can handle the revelation that Min is working for the drug ring that wants to take Q's dad down. We're now up to episode 5, and Q still hasn't unlayered his PTSD for Min yet, but I think the show is being intentional about GMMTV's demands for love-in-boys-love by saying, listen, you want the moments? Here are the moments, I am intentionally handing you the moments. The hands over the ears, the play fighting, the mole touching, the gazes. Now, next week? We'll get back to our job of moving this plot forward.

At least, I'm hoping for that, because I thought that the way Min's life is twisted in these circles of crime was paced well, and I don't want to see that pace move off track -- and I liked how the crime stuff was juxtaposed with BL tropes as well.

I'm remembering that this show is directed by the guy who did Midnight Museum, so I'm giving the show a lot of leeway in messiness. This episode wasn't messy, per se -- I truly, honestly, LOVE SEEING the classic BL tropes back in my face (geez, Ohm is arguably an originator of some of these tropes!!!) -- but I liked where we were going with Min's money travails, and I'm hoping that's as equally a driver of this show as MinQ themselves moving forward.

[twig-tea]

Lately I’ve been feeling like Thai bl is truly all over the place with so many shows airing at once and some of the best ones flying under the radar while discourse is focused on a couple of the big messy ones. I think you’re the only person I know who is actually watching ALL of them and has been here for the whole evolution of the genre, so I’m curious what stands out to you about this current moment. Do the shows feel different to you? Is the way fandom is interacting with them changing? And what are your current favs?

I ended up writing a thesis, sorry friend lol To be fair to me there are 3 questions in there, all of them meaty! I've done my best to give a sense of where I'm at with Thai BL and how it feels like it's changed over time.

Caveating all of this: I am just one fan who I'm sure has had specific experiences that will colour my opinion, also a lot of this is just vibes so I'm open to being told I've forgotten something major or misremembered what it was like! If you are reading this and your opinion or experience is different please share, with stuff like this I'm always interested in hearing about differing opinions because the fandom experience will depend at least partly on where you hang out. For years, my main fandom space for BL was the YouTube comments section (RIP me).

Overall feel

Honestly, things overall don't feel all that different to me in Thai BL in particular, even though I'm about to talk about a lot of changes and ways it actuallyd does feel very different below lol And after reflecting about it, I think it's because these things still feel very much in flux, in a way that they've felt in flux this entire time. Producers are still figuring out the best funding and distribution models and merch models to make money; creators are still calibrating how queer these shows can be and still be popular; actors are still figuring out how to do BGP (business gay performances) without having fans interfere in their private lives off the clock. Writers are still trying to figure out how to write 12-episode arcs that don't drag in the middle or fumble the ending (which is also not new). The tension between established ships, fan expectations, and genre requirements has honestly been there almost the whole time, though the reverberations of missteps is louder now because of the larger fanbase that is (comparatively) more plugged in to live viewing. The core question in BL has always been 'how do we make this marketable', and that unsurprisingly hasn't changed, though the answer to that question has over time, if that makes sense?

Shows

Do the shows feel different? As a whole, I'd say yes. The biggest differences are of course total quantity and overall quality, but the actual distribution of % of shows that have high(er) production values (i.e. quality) feels close to the same--it was close to 50/50 in the late 2010s and now is maybe more like 40/60 with a higher percentage coming from more smaller production companies. But the numbers we're talking about are something like 15 shows in e.g. 2018 and something more like 50 shows in 2023 (being vague because there are shows that people could argue over whether they should count). The quality overall has increased, even the pulps look better, sound better, and tend to feel a little bit more put together than the pulps of even 2020 (please note that these are all relative qualifiers, most of these shows are still not objectively good). 2020 in particular was a watershed moment for high production value BLs; we get colorists and special effects artists, and sometimes decent sound production now!

There has also been an improvement in terms of what is depicted and how certain subject matter is treated very generally, though I think that's still in flux. Things like evil ex girlfriends are less common than they were and the women in BL are more likely (in general, still not always) to be treated as realized characters. We've gotten more and better femme representation in ensemble shows, and the "gay for you" trope is much less common. Consent is now considered sexy and is much more common than it was; non-consent as "sexy" has eroded and is much less common. Things that used to happen in almost every BL now happen in a much lower percentage. I also feel a little bit less worried about some of the actors on pulp sets because there is more general scrutiny about things like minor actors, intimacy coordination, BGP (business gay performance) expectations, and sexual exploitation. Overall, show recommendations these days come with fewer caveats.

The assumption that if you worked with someone on a BL once you would stay with them as an established pairing was surprisingly early in BL; I don't know if it's just because there were a few shows that had side pairings then get main shows, so the actors did work together on a few shows in a row, which made them feel established, or whether it's because the BGP started early to build hype both before and after shows aired, or whether audiences just made homophobic assumptions about how if two actors had chemistry they had to be gay for each other, and otherwise nobody would want to "play gay" more than once, or would want to have to kiss too many other men....in any case, there were huge scandals and blow-ups around this in BL on even the earliest shows, and some early shows were snubbed because of the pairing alone. Similarly, it was established very early in BL (i.e. 2016-17) that an unhappy ending for a pair would result in your show being panned; cheating was also a guaranteed flop in BL circles (though some ensemble shows that had gay relationships in them such as Friend Zone did fine with cheating plots and unhappy endings). Overall it feels like some things were only depicted in early Thai BL and creators have avoided them since due to the audience reception at the time. I will say, generally, that there have now been enough examples of people in a "branded pair" moving on to a new pair or multiple shows, that it feels less like a death knell to a BL career if one of the actors says they no longer wanted to make BLs, or if they switched companies.

I pay a lot of attention to queerness in BL, and that has changed a little bit too, though not in the way I expected. I had been expecting a more clear and steady trajectory in BL, but we've instead had real swings, and I've realized there will just always be shows that feel more or less actually gay or queer than others, and that's ok. Early Thai shows really spoiled us for good queer content, GayOK Bangkok and Diary of Tootsies are still shows by which i measure what we get now, and both of those are from 2016. I would say that more "mainstream" BL (i.e. by one of the major production companies) hit what turned out to be queer saturation around 2020 and that's where I was most surprised not see a more clear trajectory; rather than things getting more queer from there, I'd say a greater percentage of shows overall feel more queer, but we haven't (and I now suspect won't) reach the queerness we had in Thai tv in 2016. That being said, my secret running list of things I want to see in BL gets shorter every year as entries get crossed off, so I would say the range of queer experience is slowly getting captured as more content continues to be made by a wider range of production houses (PrEP being mentioned in a mainstream show is my white whale).

I know some people assume that shows are higher heat now overall, but I don't think that's true. I do think Thai television producers and directors have overalll gotten better at capturing sensuality, and acting workshops have improved chemistry-building overall too. But from what I can tell the ratio of high head and low heat content is still pretty similar to what it's always been, maybe slightly higher (e.g. at a quick glance I'd guesstimate 30% of shows had a sex scene in 2018 vs 40% in 2023).

Fandom

The main differences in fandom from the really early days and now are the ways we, as international fans, are able to engage with each other, with thai audiences at the same time, and with content creators, and the entitlement that comes with that. In the 2010s we were almost always watching after Thai airing, with either fansubs or, later, official subs, trailing online releases by days or weeks, which themselves may have trailed the Thailand airing date by days or weeks or sometimes even months. That became less true around 2019ish, and especially in 2020 when I think Thai producers were desperate to reach audiences during the start of the pandemic (and when audiences were desperate for something to distract us from what was happening in real life).

As a fan in the mid-late 2010s, watching something was either unofficial via a fansubber, or you were wading through hundreds of Thai comments to find anyone else writing about the shows in English. Now, it's actually rare we don't have immediate international distribution, though it may be paid. If the subs are not up at the same time as the official upload, even on free sites, fans get furious. It's a bit surreal to see people complain about waiting a few hours for subtitles, especially on YouTube, when we sometimes waited months for a series to finish being subbed (not to say people didn't complain back then too, because they sure did! But there were fewer international fans overall, and it wasn't an expectation that there would be subs, so fewer people complained when it happened). This meant that a lot of people only watched shows when they were complete, and people were not watching with any kind of synchronicity.

With international fans moving into simultaneous watching with Thai audiences, we suddenly had the chance to talk about shows as they were airing and affect the conversations about them and even, sometimes, the decisions. Folks seem to have differing opinions about what makes a BL, and what makes a BL good, and they are vocal about when a show doesn't meet their standard. This has always been true, but the strong opinions have more of an effect on the discourse when they're expressed in real-time to the show being aired. Also, when we have literally 3x the number of Thai shows being aired (nevermind other countries which have also increased), it seems so much more egregious to me to complain if a single show doesn't meet your particular taste. Just go watch something else! That was less possible in 2016, but now nobody has any excuse lol Please note here that I'm not saying shows should not be criticized. But when you have one loud faction saying shows should have nothing but innocent kisses if any skinship at all and showing more is distasteful and possibly homophobic, and another faction saying a show should be panned if they don't have at least one sex scene and if there is no good kiss it's homophobic, I don't know where that leaves content creators but I see the tension and how it sometimes results in my least favourite tropes like "blushing maiden" even after a couple has canonically had sex. These factions have always existed in BL fandom, this is not new, they just both seem particularly silly now with so much content to choose from.

The shows that get attention and the shows that get snubbed feel the same too, in all honesty. You can ask yourself the following questions:

Is the show a little slower paced?

Are the story beats less melodramatic?

Do its characters feel more human?

Do they feel more queer?

Is it a comedy?

Is there any risk of an unhappy ending?

Do people not think one of the lead actors is hot?

Do people ship one of the lead actors with someone who isn't his costar?

Do people have to do anything other than go to YouTube to watch it?

If the answer is yes to any of those questions, and especially to the last one, fewer people will be watching, even if the show is good. That's always been true. [Shows I'm thinking about when I say that: Make it Right, He's Coming to Me, My Ride, You're My Sky, Oxygen (though the sides in this one are also at fault), YYY, Something in my Room, Ghost Host Ghost House, Dear Doctor I'm Coming for Soul, Cooking Crush.] All this is to say, there have always been shows that have been ignored, though I agree with you OP that with more shows airing, more are being ignored at any given time.

The other thing is that when a show is good, it doesn't necessarily invite discourse. The messes are often what encourage people to dig in, fill in gaps, linger in the adrenaline. The part that does feel different is also related to the increase in genre BLs; genre stuff in general tends to get more attention in fandom spaces, and the way people are functioning as fans feels different in that they're bringing the way they interact with genre content to BL as BL has started having larger and better funded genre content. I'm thinking about those early genre BLs like He She It, My Dream, Love Poison, Golden Blood, So Much In Love, Why R U....we started getting genre shows in BL in I think 2017 and basically had 1-2 a year until 2020ish and then it increased from there; and the ones that had funding and decent distribution got engagement until they started going off the rails, and then they had even more engagement and then fell off. I don't think it's a coincidence that the shows last year that got people to write meta were La Pluie, Be My Favorite, and I Feel You Linger in the Air. When a show is building a world, there's more to say and interrogate about it, and when a genre show fails, it can fail more spectacularly than a regular romance story. The most popular BL shows used to all be straight-up BL bubble romances, but I think genre shows really started to take over a greater percentage of the popular spots in 2022 and 2023. Again, the main difference here is that there used to be 1-2 stand-out shows per year, and now there are closer to 6+ per year, and as we got more stand-out shows the variety of what type of show stood out as popular has expanded. I do think the overall percentage of shows that are more standard romance plots has reduced, partly because Thai production companies are running out of popular y-novels to adapt. So I'm anticipating we'll continue to get more genre content going forward, and maybe a higher percentage of original works too.

Shows I'm Enjoying Right Now

Right now, the Thai shows airing that I'm watching are:

Cooking Crush

Dead Friend Forever

Cherry Magic Thailand

City of Stars

The Sign

Playboyy

PitBabe

7 Days before Valentine

For Him

Of those, I'd currently most recommend Cooking Crush as a generic BL recommendation. Dead Friend Forever is very good, but is not a romance and is difficult for some to watch (there are a lot of dark themes in addition to the gore and scary bits).

Cooking Crush is doing so many things I love. I've written about the way it's set up its major conflict to be amongst the friend group here, and way the show is depicting communication between the two main characters and how they improve their communication with one another as they get closer here. Two of my biggest BL pet peeves are a conflict for the sake of a dramatic penultimate episode that ignores or retcons a character's growth or the building of trust that a couple has already gone through in the series, so the fact that this show is working so hard to establish strong communication between its leads and then setting up the significant drama to actually about friendship rather than romance is something I cannot overstate my excitement about. To tie this back into what I wrote above, this reminds me of Diary of Tootsies and I mean that in the best possible way.

Dead Friend Foreever is, like I mentioned above, not a romance; it's a slasher horror melodrama with a very well established mystery, an ensemble cast of mostly hateable characters (which I admit isn't usually my thing, but since they're likely all going to die as a result of the genre they're in I'm finding that more tolerable than usual, and there is at least one character I like). DFF did a great job of structuring the story for the ultimate payoff of information reveals. There are a lot of shows that have been messing with non-linear storytelling recently, Cooking Crush being one of the ones that actually does this poorly in my opinion, but Dead Friend Forever effectively uses non-linear storytelling so that we find out important pieces of information about particular characters at a time when that information will have the most emotional impact on what is happening in the "present" of the storyline. Every time there is a reveal, it informs what we've already seen, recontextualizes it, and means we understand some of the character motivations and actions differently from when we saw them the first time. I mentioned above that there are dark themes in this show; one of the things that I really like about this show is that the impact of class is not glossed over, and that the consequences of these events feel very real for the characters; people do terrible things in this show, but these actions are not treated lightly by the show itself.

You'd think these two shows would have nothing in common, but there are things that they share that put them both in my top category. Generally, in both of these shows, the character arcs are clear and logical; when a character does something, even if I don't like the action itself, I can understand exactly why they that and can see how it matches where they are in their arc at the time. The shows show change in characters as a result of what they experience, and the relationships in this show really matter. When characters start acting in ways that feel out of character or against their own arc because they have to in order to drive the plot forward, I struggle to remain invested; that's not happening with either of these shows. Both of these shows also treat serious topics with seriousness, and consequences for actions are real and felt by the characters in the show (and if someone gets away with something, the show is clear that this is not just). Nothing has happened that hasn't been signalled or implied earlier. Both shows also have clear class consciousness and represent the disparity caused by classism in a critical/harsh light.

Whew! I think I got to everything you asked. Thanks again for the extremely interesting question!

[absolutebl]

Hooray!

Join the Single Dimple Appreciation Society!

I should have listened to @absolutebl’s review sooner and started My Ride months ago. This is some good food.

[absolutebl]

This Week in BL - People of Earth we have VERSE rep in 2 Thai BLs! Amazeballs!

Organized, in each category, with ones I'm enjoying most at the top.

March 2024 Wk 3

Ongoing Series - Thai

Deep Night (Thurs iQiyi) ep 2 of 8 (10?) - Everyone seems to be a bit of a player and I’m not mad about it. It’s nice to see high-grade flirting, and I really love how very gay the leads feel. Not BL gay. Actual gay. We shall see how it goes, I suspect we are in "messy gay" territory in which case, I predict utter carnage and that this show will drop ranks precipitously for me. But right now? Of all the Thai BLs airing, I'm enjoying this the most. How bizarre. 

I like the side couple (thrupple?) too, despite the prat fall kiss and possible cheating. They very pretty:

To Be Continued (Thai C3 Thailand grey) ep 4 of 8 - oh dear NO honeychild, face masks are gross tasting!

Rule no 966 of the BL world. He’s never asleep. 

Argh Achi wants Ji so bad. Nice mutual kiss tho, despite Ji's baggage. I guess Ji knew what would happen if Achi stayed? But why is he so scared? Just deeply closeted? The backstory is very high school achy and I feel like it explained Achi but not Ji. And the crying in the movie was lovely, so we totally understand Achi's but Ji is just messed up and confused? I admit to being a bit confused too. Why is Ji the one so angry?

On a totally different aside, I really like how the set dressing is done in Ji’s apartment. It looks lived in and not staged. Super rare in Thai BL. I'm reminded of Ai & Pond's dorm room in Love By Chance, which actually looked like a real college dorm.

City of Stars (Fri iQIYI) ep 7 of 12 - Why is it always the pulps that actually trot out the best communication, conversation, consent, and healthy relationships? Yes I'm still wincing over the truly bad acting but I’m enjoying their good relationship. The sex scene was sweet and tender, although the likelihood of rose petals getting stuck places wigs me out. (Flower petals + lube = terrible combination. Just FYI.)

ALL PRAISE VERSE REP! And a bottom who owns it! Yay! 

1000 Years Old ep 5 of 12 - How ridiculously colorful and flirty they all are. There is nothing at all vampire about this show. I’m a bit bored by the restaurant plot but I'm tuning in for the bonkers approach to goth. How dare they be so cheerful with my precious emo youth, but also, how very Thai pulp of them.  

Ongoing Series - Not Thai

Unknown (Taiwan Tues Youku YouTube) ep 4 of 11 - oh it’s SO GOOD. Reading the yaoi and crying. COME ON TAIWAN HAVE MERCY. The red wrapping of the hands (red thread, yes yes we get it). The boy who doesn’t want to box for so many reasons. Not the least of which is how unpleasant it is to spar with a lover. 

This is easily the best BL currently airing and it is going to hurt us. But I don't care. I love it.

AntiReset (Taiwan Fri Viki/Gaga) eps 8 of 10 - This show is dangerously cute and I’m scared for everyone involved, including me.

Love is Better the Second Time Around AKA Koi wo Suru nara Nidome ga Joto (Japan Gaga) ep 2 of 6 - Poor baby thrown in all willynilly amongst a pack of queeny bitchy gay intellectuals. I'd be lost too. It's the worse kind of fight, one you have to philosophize your way out of.

Although I Love You and You AKA Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yaro ka (Japan Thurs Gaga) ep 10fin - They are extremely adorable and it was a very good ending - mature, adult, and bittersweet. I liked it a lot. But I didn’t love it the way I wanted to.

The promise of this show, younger cook courts older divorced office worker, should have been my catnip. I mean if someone pitched this to me in an elevator I would have downloaded it by the second storey. Unfortunately, it did not exactly fulfill that promise, not in the way I'd hoped. Did I still enjoy the ride, yes, but I feel just a little let down. 8/10 

My Strawberry Film (Japan Thurs Gaga) eps 5 of 8 - Honestly now I’m just shipping the two girls getting together. Frankly, I really don't like this show, and normally I'd DNF but there's only a few eps left and nothing else is airing rn.

It's done, ready to binge, maybe I'll finally get to it this weekend

What Did You Eat Yesterday Season 2 AKA Kinou Nani Tabeta? Season 2 (Japan Gaga) 10 eps

The Servant and the Young Master (Vietnam YouTube)

Began Beginning (Myanmar YouTube) - A Burmese BL? @heretherebedork vouched for it, so I will watch eventually.

It's airing but...

Time the series (Tue Gaga/YT) 10 eps - it's finished now, I dropped it at ep 4. Should I bother?

Close Friend Season 3: Soju Bomb! (Thai ViuTV grey) 10 eps - I'm exhausted by this franchise and the variety pack style of BL. If there is a particularly good couple (or installment) I might watch it, but I'm letting others decide for me.

A Secretly Love (Thai WeTV grey) 10 eps - I watched the first ep but grey is too much work for this inferior of a show. I may pick up and binge if it gets distribution but for now, it gets a DNF from me. KimCop might have held this crap together but Kim without Cop? No thank you.

Lady Boy Friends (Thai WeTV grey) 16 eps - reminds me a bit too much of Diary of Tootsies only high school, not my thing. DNF unless it turns a corner and is truly amazing for some reason.

Gossip

The choreo controversy - Deep Night vs OnlyOneOf. Look, like a musical rift, or a styling photoshoot, there are no new ideas in choreo, I feel like Madonna did this pose too, a long time ago. Certainly someone in the 80s. Or whatever. Anygay, it's an ironic thing to see a Thai BL being called out by a gay-branded Kpop group when both are exploiting eroticized homosexuality for commercial profit... just saying. (HOW DID WE GET HERE?) Not to mention that BOTH are ALSO exploiting the kink community. We live in interesting times, BLabies. In the end, it's a good publicity stunt all round. And I think Nine knows exactly what he's doing (and why he is doing it). Finally: Drama drama drama around coreo? That is V gay boys. Fun fun fun, carry on everyone.

Strike a pose.

You're being recorded for posterity.

Next Week Looks Like This:

Starting

3/21 Two Worlds (Thai IQIYI) 10 eps - One of those "he's dead Jim so time travel" thingames staring MaxNat. I'm over this concept but Asia flipping loves it and I do enjoy MaxNat. Phupha (Gun) and Khram (Nat) love each other but Phupha is murdered. Then Khram is pulled to a parallel world where, 12 years ago, Khram and Tai (Max) were in love. However, Khram was killed by Tai’s dad. Now Tai finds alter-Khram apparently alive. But then there is ALSO an alter-Phupha to deal with. (Phupha is played by Gun Thanawat who was Khom, the repressed butler bodyguard from Unforgotten Night. We like this, we scared of the love triangle aspect.)

Upcoming BLs for 2024 are listed here. This list is not kept updated, so please leave a comment if you know something new or RP with additions.

Forgive me a moment of industry noodling?

Have ya noticed that it's slender pickings right now but it shouldn't be? This is not the mid summer slump nor end of year lull. We should be getting some heavy hitters on first quarter release. (Side eyes GMMTV. Perhaps those painful Japanese acquisitions were a bigger issue than any of us realized?)

Anygay, IMHO, Thailand's BL bubble has popped and sponsor money is drying up. This is my shocked face:

Look, the 2021-2023 level of release and growth (exponential) was never gonna be sustainable, so I'm not surprised. I suspect that in 2024 Thailand will actually produce fewer BLs than 2023 (73, 64 in 2022, and 40 in 2021).

I know I'm sticking my neck out predicting any film industry but... I have seen this kinda thing before and it just *feels* like shrinkage. Thai BL's load has been shot, my peeps. (Not to be crass or anything.)

Oh, don't worry you pretty head about it, it's not going away, just getting less prolific.

Don't we all in our old age?

THIS WEEK’S BEST MOMENTS

My favorite trope, sniff him!

Queen. (both Deep Night)

King. (City of Stars)

Verse rep verse rep verse rep!!! Can you see me doing a little dance this side of the screen?

(Last weeks summation)

Streaming services are listed by how I'm (usually) watch, which is with a USA based IP, and often offset by a day because time zones are too much work.

The tag BLigade: @doorajar @solitaryandwandering @my-rose-tinted-glasses @babymbbatinygirl @babymbbatinygirl @isisanna-blog

If ya wanna be tagged each week leave a comment and I will add you to the template. Easy peesy.

[the-conversation-pod]

Spring 2024 Lagniappe

And we're back! It's been a long production season for us, and we've still got projects to talk about! Join us and @twig-tea once more to answer our inbox questions and do quick takes on a bunch of projects we didn't cover in long form, and then hear Ben and NiNi catch up on a few shows or movies, wrap up the season, award Girl You Tried, and ponder the future.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

00:00:00 - Welcome 00:01:15 - Inbox: Comparing Cherry Magic Adaptations 00:10:17 - Inbox: Remaking Het Romances into QL 00:16:04 - Catch Up Corner: Young Royals Season 3 00:21:23 - Catch Up Corner: Man Suang 00:25:12 - Catch Up Corner: DNA Says Love You 00:29:23 - Twig’s Dispatch 00:38:35 - Winter Round Up 00:44:45 - Girl, You Tried 00:47:35 - Look Ahead

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes (Coming soon thanks to @wen-kexing-apologist). When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

00:00:00 - Welcome

NiNi

Welcome to The Conversation About BL, aka The Brown Liquor Podcast.

Ben

And there it is. I’m Ben.

NiNi

I’m NiNi.

Ben

And we’re your drunk Caribbean uncle and auntie here sitting on the porch in the rocking chairs.

NiNi

Four times a year we pop in to talk about what’s going on in the BL world.

Ben

We shoot the shit about stories and all the drama going into them. I review from a queer media lens.

NiNi

And I review from a romance and drama lens.

Ben

So if you like cracked-out takes and really intense emotional analysis…

NiNi

If you like talking about artistry, industry, and the discourse…

Ben

And if you generally just love simping…

NiNi

There is a lot of simping on this podcast…

Ben

We are the show for you!

00:01:15 - Inbox: Comparing Cherry Magic Adaptations 

Ben

And we're back. We have finally made it to the end of what feels like our longest production season we have ever been in.

NiNi

I feel like we have been recording this season since last season and we're recording right up to the end of the season. Our first recording for this season was on the 28th of January.

Ben

Oh my God!

NiNi

We've been here forever. We're going to change some things up going forward, and we'll tell you guys more about that when we figure it out. 

But for now, welcome to our spring lagniappe. Let's go into our inbox. We have two great questions from two new names and we also have a very special guest. Say hi, Twig.

Twig

Hi everyone.

NiNi

Twig is back with us, and she's gonna help us answer some of these questions. 

Our first question comes from @hellooobees and hellooobees writes: “I'm sure you plan to discuss something similar to this, but now that we have the Japanese and the Thai adaptations of Cherry Magic with the anime also airing, I would really like to know your opinions about them and the unique flavors they add to the mix.”

Thank you for the question, hellooobees. Ben, you've been tracking all of these adaptations. What are your opinions about the different versions of Cherry Magic now and what parts you enjoyed differently about different versions of the Cherry Magic story?

Ben

I'd say for Cherry Magic, I'm really glad that Akaso Eiji and Keita Machida were the ones who introduced us to Cherry Magic. I think both of those actors are really good, and considering what we now know about how much was changed in Cherry Magic, I think it was good that they had two solid actors who could handle that and bring some pathos to that when they were asked to do that. 

But I gotta be honest, having now seen complete versions of the Cherry Magic story as it was originally written out, I will not be returning to the original Japanese live action. The Thai live action is probably the best version in the sense that it's the most watchable, and I think the most consistently satisfying to watch. I think the cast of the Thai version is extremely good, and I think they're very funny. I think they all play off really well together, and I think the overall set of arcs that all the characters go through are really satisfying in that story.

The anime is probably my favorite. The Thai cast is just so likable. The anime cast is… not? And I think I like them more for that. We talked a lot about the Thai adaptation earlier when we had Shan on the podcast. Let's talk a little bit about anime one specifically. 

Twig, what were some of your standouts and notes you took while we were watching this?

Twig

The anime is my favorite version too, not because it's better, but because I had a little more fun with the way the characters are less perfect. Adachi in the anime… he's a little bit mean! And it's delightful. I love a mean twink, and Adachi in the anime version of Cherry Magic—he's a little sullen and a little mean, and he hates people a little bit. He's got a little bit of a misanthropy thing going on that is missing—from my taste—from the other versions of Adachi. 

My favorite moment is when he's standing on a street corner and he sees a couple canoodling, and he's. Just like, “Ugh, straight people.” [laughs] And it's like, yes! Go off.

Ben

He's always calling people normies in his head. It’s so fucking funny. [laughs]

Twig

It's like, “Fuck normies.” Like, yes, I love you! [NiNi and Twig laugh] He's also, like, a little bit less afraid to use his power for his own benefit. There's multiple times where he's like, “Oh, I'm just gonna find out what this person's thinking just because I wanna know.” And he has does moral qualms about it. I really enjoy that more morally gray character that we get in the anime.

NiNi

I have a question, actually, about the use of the different mediums and cultures. Is there anything that, for example, in the anime version, the medium of anime allows them to do that wouldn't play as well in a live action version, or vice versa even?

Ben

There's a really great example of that around the date episode. The [Thai] episode ends with Achi first having a long conversation with Jinta at their cafe, and then he goes to Karan and they have a really big heart to heart moment. That is probably the best way to do that in live action. The actors only have to build the emotions once. Today we are filming this really big emotional scene about the date, and the actors can be ready for that. 

But what I think anime allows you to do is the story can spread those scenes across multiple locations. In the anime version Adachi and Kurosawa unpack their bad date across a series of interactions, across like one or two days. A little bit at work, a little bit while they’re walking in the street, a little bit hanging out at a bar later, and then walking home.

You can do that in anime because you just can place the recordings at the settings that you want to put them in. And I prefer the way the anime handled the fallout of that bad date, but it's harder to do that in live action because it's hard to get the actors to deliver the right chemistry and mood in eight filming locations for a single overarching conversation.

Twig

I think also there is something about the medium that allows the characters to be a little bit more gray and still be lovable because everybody is in more of an extreme. If actors were trying to portray the level of intensity of emotion the anime characters do, that—it would feel very off putting. But characters are allowed to make giant faces beyond what a human can actually make in reality, [Ben laughs] and so I think it's easier to allow people to be more dislikeable and still be loved.

Ben

Twig and I really like how unlikable the anime cast is. That may seem incredibly weird, but like Rokkaku is so insufferable in the early episodes. And like, Fujisaki as a fujo is way more off-putting. Adachi is such a bitch, and then Kurosawa is intense and also aloof. I understand why Kurosawa is single in this version.

Twig

Yes, yes, exactly. [laughs]

Ben

With Karan it’s like, “Why is this man single?” And with Achi, it's like, “My body’s tofu.” Sir, you are New Thittipoom. [Ben and NiNi laugh] We are looking at them trying to pretend like you don't have these enormous fucking shoulders with the way they cut that shirt. Please. 

That gets a little bit fanciful in Cherry Magic Thailand that these guys are single, because they're both really emotionally available for the most part. Achi is just kind of shy.

Twig

Yeah. I also just really like how much more Adachi as a character makes his own decisions proactively in the anime. In the other two versions, Achi and Adachi, feel very led along by the hand by Kurosawa and Karan.

NiNi

Okay, so I think we have a hierarchy. We have a best, a favorite and an original, I think. If that's a hierarchy.

Ben

If you're asking us in a vacuum, like, what's the best one like to show someone so that they'll be impressed with the Cherry Magic story, they should watch the Thai version.

Twig

Yeah.

Ben

If you're asking us what I think my favorite expression of the story is, I really think it's the anime. I really like this version of the cast, like, I like Tsuge and Minato the most in the anime, too. I don't really wanna recommend the original Japanese live action anymore. And it's not because I think they did a bad job with that one. It's just, they made some changes to the story and ended up kind of spinning around towards the end.

Twig

One of the things I focus on about all of the adaptations is that whatever changes were made to the story, the way the characters are changed to work with that was done really well. The characters feel true in each version of the story, and they feel different in each adaptation as a result.

Ben

For those of you who don't watch a lot of anime, or for those of you who do watch anime, there are some real knocks on Cherry Magic anime. The walk animations are not great, particularly when someone's coming from the background to the foreground. Oh my God. There's a Kurosawa walking towards him moment that will haunt me for the rest of the time. [Twig laughs] 

I feel like I have to make that note because anime fans are very particular about animation and art. This is from a B-tier studio. So, be nice.

00:10:17 - Inbox: Remaking Het Romances into QL

NiNi

Let's move on to our next question that comes from happypotato48. And they write, “With all the recent news about Thai bl remakes and adaptations, it's getting me thinking if the industry is going to do remakes, why only BL, why not remake old hetero dramas or movies into QL/ GL/BL? So my question is, if you could pick one older or more recent non-queer Asian media that you wish to get remade into a QL/GL/BL, which one would you pick?”

I mean, I have my clear answers.

Ben

I really want you to go first because you are far more familiar with het romance than I am.

NiNi

My number one answer to this kind of question is always going to be Twenty-Five Twenty-One, because as far as I'm concerned, Twenty-Five Twenty-One is already a GL, they just got confused about what it was supposed to be. Twenty-Five Twenty-One is a Korean sports drama about fencers, and it has one of the greatest female/female relationships, supposedly a friendship, but I'm sorry, this was a romance to me. As far as I'm concerned, these two girls fell in love and it made me completely hungry for sports GL. That hunger that has not yet been appropriately fulfilled.

My other answer, which is an interesting one ‘cause I've been trying to get Ben to watch this. It's My Country: The New Age, fantastic historical kdrama about the birth of the Joseon era. Very warriors’ bond. And yeah, I would make that BL. I think it would work really, really well. 

What about you Twig? Where’s your head at with this question?

Twig

All right, so I had one immediately come to mind because I'm still mad that it wasn't queer to begin with. It felt like it was supposed to be. Nana. Nana is a Japanese manga, I think they even did a live action. It's about these two women who are both named Nana moving into an apartment together, and they are so queer and the underlying theme of the show is so queer. Everybody in that show is so queer. And then they made them straight, and I'm still mad about it. I'm like, “You were wrong. You're just wrong about who these characters are and who they're in love with.” That one absolutely needs to be made into a GL, please and thank you. Also the aesthetic would make me very happy. [laughs] So I just want to see it. 

The other one that came to mind is partially because I'm watching it now, but Hospital Playlist. It’s right there. It would be so easy to remake as a BL.

NiNi

Who would you put together?

Twig

Oh don't, don't put me on the spot. [laughs]

NiNi

Come on. I'm putting you on the spot. Who would you put together?

Twig

Who would you choose?

NiNi

Ik Jun and Jun Wan, I would absolutely make them a couple. I think they're fantastic. Not that I don't love Hospital Playlist exactly as it is, but if there had been an Ik Jun/Jun Wan romance, I would have also loved that. 

What about you, Ben? Where do you sit with this?

Ben

This one is always a difficult question for me because the reason I'm watching Asian drama is for queer reasons. So like, I don't go out of my way to watch a bunch of that stuff. So unfortunately I do not have a het drama that I would like to see redone as a BL. The ones I've seen were basically BL already, like Coffee Prince is clear. It does not need to be remade to be more BL. And I don't actually think that Goblin would be better if it was a BL. I think it works as it is, and I don't really want to change that. 

So I'm going to cheat. I'm not using an Asian drama for this. I want to see a gay version of Really Love. Which is like this generation’s Love Jones.

NiNi

This generation has a Love Jones?

Ben

It's really fucking good.

NiNi

Am I gonna have to watch this?

Ben

You really should. You need to go write this down and go watch it. These two people who are vibing at, like, maybe not the right time in their lives and the success that they're starting to get professionally and creatively is getting in the way of their ability to have the romance that is really important to them. 

I think about that film at least once a month. I'd like to see a gay version of that.

NiNi

I have made a note, dear friend.

Ben

And it's about black people. So you should watch it.

NiNi

Always a win.

Ben

One of the reasons why I have really taken to Asian dramas is the west—particularly Americans—really fucking hate romance and I really like how earnestly—particularly Korean dramas—engage with romance. I think it's what makes BL possible. There's a real appreciation for romance itself in this part of the world. 

I wish I had a better answer for this one, because I think it's a fun question.

NiNi

That's gonna wrap us up on the questions this season. Thank you guys so much. We always love hearing from our listeners. Please, don't be a lurker, don't be shy. Please send us questions. We love them so much.

00:16:04 - Catch Up Corner: Young Royals Season 3

NiNi 

So before we get into the things that I actually watched, like way, way behind the curve, like two years behind the curve, let's get into some of the stuff that we actually caught up on this season that was, I suppose, current. There's two things that we had been waiting for. The first one was the third season of Young Royals and the second was finally being able to watch Man Suang. 

Let's talk a little bit about Young Royals 3. I watched the whole thing. Ben still has not finished it. Ben, what did you think of the parts of Young Royals 3 that you have watched so far? How far have you gotten into it? Are you planning to finish it? And what do you think of it? 

Ben 

I got to Simon is grounded, Wille can't really leave the school now because of the curfew. I think that's as far as I got. I'll say this much: I like that this show seems to take the reality of dating a public figure seriously. I like that Simon is struggling with being online because you can't not be online in the modern age, and he is not given any real training for how to deal with it. Wille is given no fucking training either, he's like, “I'll handle it.” Really? Y’all let this impulsive boy who punches people whenever he gets mad and then just says whatever on national TV, he's in charge of teaching him on how to engage with social media? Okay, sure. Whatever. 

But I'm enjoying the struggle they're having with being public. It's different when your whole relationship has been kind of closeted and now you're suddenly out. You have to get used to what that means, and maybe this isn't exactly what you wanted. I like where it feels like the show is going on the front end, but because I know there's a lot of angst ahead for them and I haven’t been in a very high energy mood for a bit to deal with that, I have not been in a hurry to continue it. 

NiNi 

Though we, the show has presented this thing about being in a relationship with a public figure, for me, tying that back to some of the Asian BL that I've seen, I always go back to the Lovely Writer well. Having these stories in the western context is always really interesting. Interesting in the sense of, I haven't seen something like this be done in the queer western space, but also in the fact that I've seen these stories now. I've seen them in the Asian space and so they feel familiar enough that I don't feel like they’re anything new or exciting, necessarily. 

Did I enjoy Young Royals 3? I really did. But in terms of the Simon and Wille stuff, I like them. I enjoy their romance, I always have. But I felt a little bit like it had been done. And that's because I've been seeing these stories play out in Asian media for a while at this point. I thought that they did a great job writing it. I thought that it was fantastically acted. There's a sequence when Wille and Simon go swimming in the lake at sunrise that I think is definitely worth watching the entire season for, but, I feel like it's been done. 

Ben 

I will say on the way out from Young Royals that I want to applaud Omar Rudberg and Edvin Ryding for the execution of BGP over the last three or four years that they've been working together. I think those two have done a great job of managing the public version of their friendship and the professional requirements therein. They seem to have a really good handle on it, and it seems like their team did a really great job preparing them for all of this. They seem surprisingly chill for people who have gone through the BGP gauntlet.

NiNi 

It has been some gauntlet and Edvin is a young actor in his first major role. I am very impressed with how he's handled himself. 

Ben 

It's just not one of the shows that I am most excited to watch, and some of that is me being kind of grumpy politically. When we're trying to advocate for non-English language media people seemingly struggle with having to read subtitles and don't wanna watch foreign content as a result. But had no problem showing up for this show. There's a wider conversation to have about how fandom will do anything for a white man, even read subtitles. 

NiNi 

Say it. 

Ben 

It's frustrating. I feel like I'm pettily not finishing Young Royals because I don't enjoy how people who say they want more queer stories have ignored BL and then bitched that there's no great queer stories and they watch Young Royals and they're like, “Oh my goodness, I've never seen anything like this.”

I will finish Young Royals. But I am frustrated with the Western audience rushing to watch this show, and then snubbing anything Asian immediately afterwards. 

00:21:23 - Catch Up Corner: Man Suang

NiNi 

The next thing we're gonna talk about a little bit is Man Suang. This is finally, finally been made available to those of us in the West and in an English language subtitle version. 

I really enjoyed this—this is not gay. Or to be more clear, it is not obviously gay. But I thought this was a really interesting piece from Be On Cloud. 

Ben 

I did not watch this. I need you to tell me like, what is going on in Man Suang? Like, what's the drama here? [NiNi laughs] What is even the story they're telling? 

NiNi 

Oh, I get to summarize something. Okay, bear with me. 

Man Suang is a story about Khem, played by Apo Nattawin. When Khem is a dancer and after he dances, he basically gets called back by these various men, women, it doesn't matter, to come to their rooms and perform sexually for them. At the beginning of the film, some assassin sneaks into where they are and kills the guy that he's with, who is a very important guy. He tries to save him and can't, and he's then caught and arrested because of course it's assumed that he is the one who tried to assassinate this guy. And so to save his own life, he agrees to go undercover at this very fancy club called Man Suang. He gets a job there as a dancer and he meets this Chinese-Thai guy called Chatra, who is played by Mile Phakphum. It eventually becomes known to him that he and Chatra are basically on the same side, spying at this club, so they form an alliance and a friendship and possibly something more. But whatever more is happening is sort of subsumed by his trauma. 

Basically, it is a spy story. This feels about mid- to late-1800s in Old Siam. There's a lot of Chinese migration, that integral part of the story. Bas plays Khem’s friend, Wan, who is sent to Man Suang with him to join in the spy mission. Tong plays Hong, who is part of the family who owns Man Suang. They don't know whose side he's on. There's a lot of intrigue. There's a lot of drama, there's a lot of very familiar faces. 

I don't know how to describe the movie other than to say it is intriguing. It is gorgeous. I am not entirely sure the story holds together all the way. My understanding as well, which, I don't know if this is correct, its that the version that we have gotten on Netflix is an edited version. It certainly feels that way. I feel like there are bits of the story that are missing that we are expected to fill in. But the acting is fantastic and particularly as we get down to the climax of the story, there is some phenomenal acting from Bas and Tong. 

I have explained this terribly. When I edit this down it is going to be explained even more terribly. I wish that you had watched this so that you could explain it properly for our listeners. What I will say is that it's a gorgeous piece of cinema. It's beautiful to watch. Everybody is operating at a very high level in terms of the acting. It's a good film, it's not a great film. 

Ben 

I'll probably watch it at some point. 

00:25:12 - Catch Up Corner: DNA Says Love You

NiNi 

Our final catch up is, I finally watched DNA Says Love You! Ben, I'm gonna let you remind the listeners of what DNA Says Love You is about.

Ben 

DNA Says Love You is about this group of friends who are, it feels like late college kids, who are trying to make their little ghost hunting YouTube channel function. The guy and his friend had this other friend when they were growing up, who ended up leaving and they've missed her for a long time. This new guy shows up mysteriously and seems to be connected to her. And you spend most of the show wondering what sort of mystery may be going on here. Is there something spooky going on? Is this a trans story? We're not entirely certain what's happening there. 

When we finally get confirmation about what's going on, the reveals are really great and there's a really interesting execution of a… unexpected queer romance here. I'm gonna continue to talk around the reveals around Amber, because while I don't subscribe to spoiler culture, I do think the presumptions you bring to the table are part of the experience of this particular show, and I don't like revealing the full truth about Amber when I describe it to people who may not have seen it. 

NiNi 

Yeah, I think that's the right instinct. The first time we talked about the show, I remember you describing the show and thinking to myself. Okay, well, from that description I know what this is about. And then I go into the show and actually, no, I didn't know what it was about. I think that that experience is the right experience to have with this show. I think allowing the show to take you on the journey is the only way really to watch it? So I also will not be spoiling the show. 

We're gonna continue to talk around what it is, but I do want to say, having watched it now, I am going to echo Ben's praise of Erek Lin, who plays Amber. I think that Erek Lin did an incredible job with this character. I enjoyed the story. I love that this is a story about friendship more than anything else, and about what it is to be a friend and what it means to carry somebody in your heart for a really long time. 

I thoroughly enjoyed this. Is it perfect? No. There are a few things that I wish that the show had done—not differently, but probably given some more time and attention to. And then there's some side characters who I found fun and interesting, but I was a little confused about how they fit overall into the story. 

Ben 

I don't think the connective tissue with all of the romance bits going on was necessarily great in this. But I did appreciate the established gay couple sides who are dealing with a potential separation in their future. There's a whole thing of, like, growing pains and growing up in their story that I really connected to. 

NiNi 

Fair enough, but I wasn't entirely sure how they fit into the story thematically, or really, to be honest, narratively. They seemed to be sort of off to the side in their own little story. But yeah, overall, really good show. If I were in the business of recommending things, I absolutely would recommend it. 

Ben 

You have been recommending things with me for over two years now. Highly recommended, go watch it! 

This show is about a queer experience that very rarely gets depicted in any kind of media. This is worth watching. 

NiNi 

Well said, sir. Well said. 

00:29:23 - Twig’s Dispatch

Ben 

We are going to introduce a new segment to the lagniappe of The Conversation, Twig’s Dispatch. We wanted to make sure we gave airtime to all of the shows that we choose either not to discuss on the show or we didn't think warranted a very long conversation. 

NiNi 

The point of the segment is for Twig to just do a round up of what's out there that we may not have seen, may not have wanted to watch, may not have been able to put effort into at the time to get a sense of the landscape and also for Twig to point out, hey, maybe you should watch this one. 

Ben 

So Twig, why don't you run us down your list of shows? 

Twig 

Dispatch! Hey-o! 

So I've got 12 pieces of media that weren't on the list of stuff you've discussed in the season. My Universe it's on iQIYI, 12 two-part episodes that are only very lightly linked together. It felt like a series of school projects. There was a body swap, mistaken identity, in love with your sibling’s friend, destined lovers, enemies to lovers, love Triangle, a coach and an athlete, fake dating turns real, a twincest episode—it did walk a fine line, it made me very uncomfortable—age gap, paid companionship, and terminal illness. If you love one of those tropes, you can just watch that one miniseries associated with that trope, I guess. 

There was a lot of not very well handled difficult subjects in these, so if you have any need for warnings, I would check for the warnings about the episodes you might wanna watch. If you're curious and wanna try one of them, my favorite one was Right Time, Right You, the destined lovers one, episodes five six. It's a little bit lighter than some of the other ones and has some of the better acting. There's also three or four different directors who, you can try out a bunch of different creators and see how you feel about them, which is kind of fun from a viewer perspective. 

Night Dream is actually one of the ones that I like more. It's a second chance romance. I think it's on YouTube, childhood friends, Night and Dream. meet again after Dream had disappeared from Night's life for years and fall back into this sort of will they, won't they that comes from being closeted. This is one of the ones that I liked because it felt a little more queer and they did some interesting things with flashbacks, so we got a mid-series reveal that I thought was actually pretty well done. If you have time and you're open to a slightly more queer feeling story, it's worth giving a shot. 

Going in with low expectations is a good idea, but it's not a terrible waste of your time. 

NiNi 

Bake Me?

Twig 

The actual show was last season, but the special episode landed this season. My biggest complaint about this show was there wasn't enough baking. It was a really frustrating plot. Special episodes, you just have to have something to give people a chance to be with those characters again and see them be cute, really. Right? But they didn't take that route. 

For Shin’s birthday Peach ignores him for days, so that Shin thinks that Peach is gonna leave him, so that he could surprise Shin on his birthday as like the worst birthday gift ever. I [laughs] was not into it. I don't love a big lie as a plot device for a relationship. 

Ben 

VIP Only? 

Twig 

My biggest note about this show was Liu Li coming into his own, being self assured and exercising his own agency and figuring himself out was actually great, but it came way too late. He was so much more interesting as a character when he actually took control of his life, but he was just so passive for so many episodes. What I love about it was he lets go of what he thought love was, that juvenile understanding of what love looks like, to realize what love really is. I thought that was a really cool arc and I was really sad that it wasn't treated better. 

Love Senior the Series. Oh, I had such high hopes for this one, guys. It is essentially the lesbian version of SOTUS. It's a hazing ritual that happens with engineering. The first seven episodes were so great, we got lesbians who were thirsty for each other and they were actually more successful than their gay male counterparts in overturning the systems. We got a character who had casual sex, and it's fine. Yes, anti-purity culture! And then episode 8 happened and someone got drugged, there was slut shaming, there was a car accident, there was amnesia, and then noble idiocy—literally every one of my least favorite tropes. I guess they felt like they needed to have more for their characters to do, but I was, like, really enjoying them just being lesbians and horny for each other. Like, what was wrong with that?

Ben 

Anyway, what is You and My Stars? 

Twig 

That was just a little micro series of two episodes by Mind Trio. They're like a little indie BL-producing YouTube channel that I like to follow. They did my favorite show that no one heard of, Calculating Love. It's not actually that good, but it makes me happy. [laughs]

This one is a little love triangle—I think it's like 25 minutes total—and it's one of the better ones on this list for sure. There's two friends, Hunter and Win. And Win likes this guy Time, but he finds out that Time likes Hunter and so Win tries to help Time to woo Hunter, but Hunter steps away and then we find out who Hunter likes. But I will not spoil it. It's cute. There's some star folding, hence the name. 

After Sundown: essentially, they took the plot of Cutie Pie, but added ghosts, which sounds like it should be really fun. And so it was really disappointing how boring this movie was. [laughs] A poor kid comes to a large estate and is betrothed to a rich guy who's been cursed because his grandfather was gay. That's the summary. That should be really interesting! It was not. I was so bored. 

NiNi

Twins the Series.

Twig

Of all the sports to get wrong in a gay series. How dare you? So these twins, Zee and Sprite, Zee plays volleyball, Sprite does judo. Zee gets beaten up by guys who were looking for his twin Sprite, so Sprite feels guilty and takes Zee’s place on the volleyball team to make sure that Zee can still qualify to compete for the national team later that year. He has to integrate with the team in order to hide the fact that he's not Zee, but he's first of all really bad at pretending to be his twin, and also it takes until I think it was, like, episode 8 before he actually got volleyball lessons from anyone? I was like, what are you doing? He's pretending to be one of the top athletes in a sport that he doesn't know how to play, and nobody notices for the entire series. I was aghast. 

Sprite, the one pretending to be the volleyball player, falls for a teammate named First who hates Zee, the twin who he's pretending to be. The Big Lie went on for way too long. It doesn't get revealed till the very end. And First does not get to be angry about it for nearly long enough for my taste. The leads did have mad chemistry, and Ryan's waist is fantastic, so you know who, kudos to them for working with what they got. 

Do we talk about For Him? What I kind of wanna say about For Him is: pay your actors, and we'll talk about your show. Give Tor Atagorn another show. That was my takeaway from that show. 

NiNi 

Happy Ending. 

Twig 

My favorite thing about this is all of the lore, because everybody went into it going, “Oh, it's Strongberry, it's going to be good” and then it wasn't. And then Strongberry came out and was like, “It wasn't really us, we distributed it.” I mean, the director said outright, “I wanted to make a sad short with an ambiguous ending.” and that's what we got, and I think now he's realizing that maybe wasn't the best goal. 

NiNi 

Bringing things forward that people may not have heard about, there is a BL that came out from Myanmar called Healing Thingyan. 

Twig 

This is a little YouTube miniseries. It takes place as friends celebrate the Thingyan Festival over a period of a few different years. It's short, it's cute, it's free, and it's the only show from Myanmar that I've seen where nobody died. So [laughs] already it's crossing over the bar into things that I'm happier to send support to. 

One of the things that I feel like has to be said about anything coming out of Myanmar is the political situation. As long as it wasn't really bad, I was going to tell people to watch it because I wanna encourage views on shows where people are struggling against the political climate they're in in order to be able to show this kind of content. This show had to pass a censorship board to be made, so don't expect a kiss, but they're surprisingly cute for what they're allowed to make and in a country where the penalties are severe for making things that could be seen as encouraging quote unquote of queerness, I feel really strongly about sending views towards this thing. 

Support local Burmese shows. Give it a shot. Give Myanmar some love. 

NiNi 

That's our first ever Twig’s dispatch. Thanks for being here with us, Twig. 

Twig 

Thanks for having me again. 

00:38:35 - Winter Round Up

NiNi 

Always a fun time having Twig on the show, new friend of the pod. I like that we're building up this stable of friends of the pod. I like hearing the voices of BL fandom on our show. It's great fun. 

Ben 

It's also like inviting friends over to your house, like it's different when you're just hanging out and doing stuff. But every time your friends come over, you have to clean up and shit. [Ben and NiNi laugh] There's a lot more extra effort on the front and back end now. 

NiNi 

Let's talk about the season as was. Ben, I know you have some complex, complicated, mixed moody kinds of thoughts about how this season went. 

Ben 

It's tough. The most obvious thing from our release schedule that stands out this season is this is, I think, the first time Japan has outnumbered Thailand in our number of shows we talked about—oh, wait, nevermind. They caught up because of Twig. 

[Ben and NiNi laugh]

NiNi 

In terms of long form discussion, we talk more about the Japanese this season. That is true. 

Ben 

This is the most we've talked about Japanese content on this podcast since we started, which is a real win for me because that's what I enjoy the most. But it's also a reflection of what's going on. Thailand is still out-producing everyone, but it's less about countries now and more about production teams and studios. We managed to have a really great conversation around Cherry Magic and Cooking Crush about what longevity looks like in BL. Now that there are more players actively engaged in the genre, it's not just us talking about 8 to 10 Thai BLs, the one or two Japanese shows that got released, the maybe Korean project that got released, the maybe Taiwanese project that got released. There's a whole lot more people playing in the space now. 

My own life responsibilities have forced me to cut back on being present for every BL. The gap between a show I really am enjoying and engaged with and a show I'm not but I’m trying to stick with is a lot further than it's ever been, and I find it a lot harder to cross that gap. I'm relieved that we have more friends now because I can ask people what's going on. That's been the big shift for me. Being more cognizant of my own time and how I'm investing myself emotionally in the shows. I don't like showing up grumpy to productions. I don't really like being in a foul mood when I'm watching shows. I don't think that's fair to the shows and I don't think that's good for me emotionally either. 

NiNi 

This is generally where I've been overall, but that's just a function of my life right now. I've been so busy, even this season, I tried to watch as much as possible, but they are definitely things that just did not happen. And going forward they're going to be shows that I don't watch. Ben'll tell you my standard comment now when a new show comes up is, y'all tell me whether I need to watch this. There's some stuff that I'm definitely gonna be watching. That's not a quality bar, trust me, because there is some trash that I fully intend to watch [cough sound] cough We Are. 

But [laughs] yeah, my thing is, as Shan said in the year in review, reclaiming my time a little bit. I don't have the time that I did have and the time that I am spending to do this stuff, I want it to be time that I enjoy. Watching stuff with my friends, talking about that stuff that I enjoyed or at least was bad in an interesting way with my friends, that's what I'm gonna be focused on, not on getting volume. So it's really now question of y'all tell me what I need to watch because you really wanna discuss it, and that's actually in a lot of ways working out really well for us, I think.

So, I'm good to keep that going. I also like us having more friends to have these discussions with now. Ben and I agreed from the beginning that if this stopped being fun, we're gonna stop doing it. We're definitely still having fun with this, but we're having fun in different ways now than we did when we started, and this show is always gonna evolve along those lines. Whatever is fun for us now is what we're gonna be doing. So you would have heard a couple of really fun segments this season. 

One segment that we're not sure is going to keep going is the Catch Up Corner. Going forward, we don't know how much catch up there's gonna be in this show cause we just, we don't really have time to catch up on everything. 

Ben 

All I caught up on this season was two long ass Chinese dramas. [laughs]

NiNi 

Ginny and Shan have gotten Ben into the cdrama space, which is a space, I'm sorry, they're too long. I can't do it. [laughs]

Ben 

Nah nah, NiNi. All of these shows should be longer, 40 episodes, 58 episodes—

NiNi 

Oh my God.

Ben

68 episodes!

NiNi 

I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't do it. 

Ben 

Every single show should go on for half a year, multiple times a week. We should end in the middle of a sentence. 

NiNi 

[laughs] You're terrible. You're really, truly terrible. 

Ben 

In terms of catching up on BL, it isn't our style to show up super duper late to the fandom experience and talk over it. We don't wanna be those people. And so if we didn't engage with a show during the season, we probably won't have an extensive conversation about it. We're probably going to rely on the fact that we have friends now to highlight those shows if we didn't show up for them for whatever reason. So that we get a conversation around the time it released. But if something pops up, like, what happened recently for NiNi when we finally got her to watch something, we’ll try to bring it to you and give you some reactions. 

00:44:45 - Girl, You Tried

NiNi 

Girl, You Tried. Who are our contenders this season? 

Ben 

[funny voice] Oh my God. This is probably the most difficult Girl, You Tried we've ever had because things were either bad and it's like, “Oh, absolutely not.” And then there are things that are like, “What was she even doing?” So I think legit contenders for Girl, You Tried: Chaser Game W, The Sign?

NiNi 

I think it's those two. 

Ben 

Yeah, I was gonna say, I wanna kind of put Sukidoya there, but that feels mean. 

NiNi 

No, I think Sukidoya was better than that. 

Ben 

Exactly. That's the constant problem this season. There are things that didn't necessarily land exactly but they didn't really fail, or there were things that were just like, “Oh, absolutely not. We're not giving you an award for that.” [Ben and NiNi laugh]

I think it's really Chaser Game W and The Sign. 

NiNi 

So between those two, if I had to pick. 

Ben 

You do. That's the bit! 

NiNi 

[laughs] I think The Sign tried harder than Chaser Game W. So for me it's The Sign. 

What do you think? 

Ben 

It is The Sign because Saint really did try. There's a lot of effort that went into The Sign. While we have some real consternation with it as a piece of copaganda, and as a maybe too-watered-down adaptation of its source material and kind of confusing plot threads, I think there's a lot of real effort that went into that. I think the performances are really earnest. It's not a half-assed production in any way. While it doesn't land exactly for me, I think it is probably the best Girl, You Tried [laughs] show we have. 

NiNi 

Going back to the original intent of Girl, You Tried, it was really for something with a good concept, but problematic execution. I think The Sign fits into that. I think that they had the right ideas. I think that maybe they got in the weeds and did not know how to get back out. 

So, dubious congratulations to IdolFactory!

Ben 

I don't want you all to feel bad about Girl, You Tried. I think there's a lot of great stuff in your show. I think the efforts that went into CGI work are really noteworthy. There's technical gains there that are gonna be really beneficial for the Thai media landscape, even well beyond BL. I really thank them for introducing Babe Tanatat to us, because I really like him! [laughs]

NiNi 

And will cosign on Gap Jakarin. I am a fan. 

Ben 

We got to see Yoshi again! I haven't seen Yoshi properly since, like, Love Sick. 

NiNi 

It is the Girl Who Tried. 

00:47:35 - Look Ahead

NiNi 

Let's look ahead to the future. Give me one thing you're looking forward to this season or something that you're watching now that you're looking forward to talkin’ about. 

Ben 

I'm really, really looking forward to talking about Love is Better the Second Time Around. We just finished episode four of six as of this recording and it's still going very strong. I'm excited to talk about Unknown. I'm only two episodes in and it is really intriguing. I'm having a good time with that one, I'm looking forward to discussing that. I am hoping that 23.5 is a really good discussion for us. I would really like to have a positive conversation about Thai GL. I really want Milk and Love’s show to be really good. I love them both a lot, and it's really important to me that the show go over really well. 

NiNi 

My disaster loser lesbian love Ongsa. I want to say so much about what Milk is bringing to this role, so I am also [Ben laughs] looking forward to talking about 23.5. One of the things that I like about it so far is that it does not feel like flipped BL. It feels like a GL. It feels very specific to a lesbian experience and I am excited by that. 

I can't say I'm looking forward to, but I'm gonna watch We Are. I just am. Ben’s on my case already, I'm on Ben’s case already. We both have feelings about New Siwaj, opposite direction feelings. We're both gonna be watching this grumpily, but for different reasons. 

Ben 

I just don't really know what's gonna happen in this. It's gonna be 16 episodes of people vibing. We already went through this with the fuckin’ Star in My Mind Our Skyy episode. 

NiNi 

But you see the difference is that unlike things like Star in My Mind and Hidden Agenda, we are being told upfront that this show is about nothing. 

Ben 

Well, I'm glad you're looking forward to four months of nothing. 

NiNi 

We've already established that right now I'm in a very busy time of my life, so something I can watch mindlessly and enjoy the pretty, I will jump on. I mean, Phuwin’s here? Everybody loves Phuwin. 

Ben 

That's not how I'm built! [Ben and NiNi laugh]

NiNi 

For me this is really simple. Phuwin is here. We love Phuwin. I am looking forward to seeing what Winny and Satang give. I am very interested in seeing AouBoom. I grew to love Boom through the mess that was Hidden Agenda and I am looking forward to seeing what he brings to the table here. There isn't much of a table but they are going to lay it as best as they can. 

I am also looking forward to watching Unknown and Love is Better the Second Time Around. Looking forward to catching up with those once they're complete. 

Ben 

I'm excited for Living With Him. We've got an interesting one from Korea called Gray Shelter. We've got a meta one coming from Japan called At 25:00 in Akasaka, which is about two guys preparing to film a BL and complicated feelings coming in. 

Up Poompat is going to be back with us again in My Stand In. He's gonna be playing across Poom. That one looks like it's gonna be messy as hell, and I think Up is well suited for that kind of messy. 

There is another Korean one on the horizon called Boys Be Brave, and A Man Who Defies the World of BL 3 is supposed to release [laughs] sometime in April. I'm excited to see Inukai again. I'm excited to see Yutaro again. I'm excited to see Idegami Baku again. Very, very happy about this. 

NiNi 

I'm excited to catch up actually with Zettai BL. I have been meaning to watch that for years, so I might take advantage of this opportunity. 

So that's what we're looking forward to coming up. Going forward, we're going to be switching things up a little bit in terms of our schedule of when things come out. We're still going to be seasonal, but probably on a more extended schedule, bring us a little bit closer to real time. So look out for announcements from us, but for now that's going to wrap us up on the lagniappe and going to wrap us up on the spring season. 

We out! Say bye to the people, Ben. 

Ben 

Peace. 

[lurkingshan]

Knock Knock Boys: The Unexpected Delight of the Summer Season

Who would have thought that this little under appreciated pulp would come in and steal the Thai BL summer season with so many bigger, shinier, more expensive shows on air? Not me! But here we are, and Knock Knock Boys is going down as one of my unexpected favorites of 2024.

I liked this show from the start, with its premise of four men, each dealing with various Life Situations, coming to live together in a shared home and developing natural friendships and romantic attachments. Each episode begins with a cold open that puts us squarely in the middle of their latest shenanigan and then we jump back to work our way there over the course of the episode. The writing is clever, the directing and editing is zippy and fun, and the whole thing is founded on queer and sex positive themes. I expected it to be a sexy, comedic romp with a sprinkle of mystery as we learned more each week about what these boys were running from.

And it is that, sometimes. But it is also a surprisingly touching story of queer friendship and finding yourself and your tribe and building courage to live an authentic life with the support of your loved ones. It's a story about making the effort to understand and giving each other space to figure ourselves out. It's a story about the importance of communication and giving others a chance to come through for you. It’s a story about how true friendship and patience and empathy can empower someone to change their life.

And it's also a touching romance, times two. Latte and Almond were the favorites all the way through for most of us watching, and seeing them go from friends to something more to proper boyfriends was so lovely. What I loved most about their arc together is how gently it advanced; despite Latte starting the show as our resident sexually experienced pansexual, he was also clear that sex and relationships are meaningful to him, and we saw that in how he pursued Almond with utmost patience. Almond was completely inexperienced and fixated on another guy when they met, and Latte was his genuine friend in helping him sort through his feelings and move on from Jumper before he was a prospective love interest. When Almond became more aware of the attraction between them and they began dating, it all felt natural, as did the progression of their physical intimacy. They are precious and their relationship has such a strong foundation that it's easy to believe they'll stay together long term.

Perhaps most surprising to me is how much I ended up loving the Peak and Thanwa romance, as well. Peak's journey, and the way it ultimately landed, is what sent this show into the stratosphere, and it's where that theme about patience that I mentioned above comes through most strongly. For much of their story, Peak and Thanwa were caught in a frustrating cycle of constantly misunderstanding each other, and it was mostly down to Peak's failure to communicate about his family situation and the way it was restricting him. These two kept missing beats, refusing to talk, and hurting each other because they just couldn't get it together to clear the air, and that can be hard to watch episode to episode. But once we have the full picture, Peak's behavior becomes understandable, both to Thanwa and to us, and we can only join his friends in rooting for him and giving him strength to be brave. And he was, in one of the most satisfying and heartwarming scenes I've seen in bl this year.

I just can't recommend this show highly enough, and I've kept things somewhat vague above because I hope more of you will watch it now that it's over and available for a binge. This show is not perfect, but it's so heartfelt and you will be rewarded in the end. You can find the show on Gaga and the small but mighty crew of us regular viewers screaming about it every week in the tag. You don't want to miss it!

[heretherebedork]

Oh no, y'all, oh no, I love Sprite. I adore him. This boy? My favorite.

He's soundly rejected and struggling with the feeling of not mattering to the people who should have loved him and like the lesser of the two choice and like he can do everything he can and no one will ever be proud of him...

And now he's seeing his twin brother, the one who is better than him, the one who was chosen when he wasn't, beaten and he has no idea why (and it's because of him even if he doesn't know yet) and now he all he has is his own skills.

I love him.

It really is Not Me but with sports instead of politics. Like, that's it and I love it here.

This is also my favorite way to do one-sided enemies to lovers because it's only one sided because the person changed, not because the enemies are actually one-sided.

I've been captures by another pulp, @absolutebl. Quality shows have nothing on these.

[sunshinechay]

15 Day BL Challenge!

Day 5: Biggest Flop

Original Post found here

Honestly it was both very hard and extremely easy to pick for today. I am notoriously easy on bls and often end up indifferent to bad ones rather than hating them, though not always. Because I end up indifferent I also don’t often end up actively disappointed with a bl at the end, usually just a shrug and I move on to something i enjoyed more. That being said, there is one bl that I could think of that easily fit this category for me in terms of my own personal standards and the standards of a good bl in general

For Him The Series

I cannot say I went into it with high expectations (I mean I don’t go into any bl with high expectations but I digress). I went in expecting a Thai bl pulp and I certainly got it, but it was not good pulp. I can’t even really place it in the so bad it good category like I can with like Unforgotten Night (which was made by the same company, which I side eye heavily forever).

It was just kind of bad. It had a bad script and bad editing. The acting was the only highlight for me with Dew and Tor being good to watch, especially Tor as he played two different people.

It was ultimately extremely forgettable and not very good. But that’s not why I picked it. I picked it for today for my own personal gripe with it. I made a post about it when it aired but I am still bitter about how much what I think is a good and unique (even if it shouldn’t be) message that it was putting out, whether the creators intended for it to be there or not. I absolutely love the shows message about mental health and getting help when you need it. Him struggles with his mental health in the wake of Blue’s death. It is something that he has already sought out help for though he continues to struggle with it. His friends and family keep checking in because they fear what might happen. It’s the whole reason his friends are worried about why Him started dating Nail in the first place, though their worries are ultimately put down when it becomes clear that Him wants to be with Nail because he is Nail, not because he looks like Blue. Him even ends up going back to therapy at the end, because of the events of the show. It’s a good message to be putting out there. However, this message is so bogged down and hidden behind convoluted plots and scenes that don’t matter and it makes me want to yell and curse very loudly.

Thanks I hate it.

[bengiyo]

Memory in the Letter Ep 1 Stray Thoughts

I've been meaning to start this for a bit, but @yankeebastard has been busy and we couldn't make it a Saturday show.

Oh, starting on a down note. Not entirely certain if this is homophobia leading to a major break with our protagonist and his father.

I'm glad we don't have to pull out the charts about queer homelessness right away, but it's kinda weird immediately transitioning to a more upbeat song.

This guy's face kinda reminds me of Tod Techit.

Can you imagine chilling on your bed, heading the news talk about a meteor shower, and then looking out the window to see one coming right for you??

The meteor scene is making me wonder if our protagonist is dead now that we're starting with the mirror universe stuff.

Our protagonist Aksorn, and our romantic lead is Songjam.

Oh ho! Our leads are in different universes with different histories.

He searched 'man in the mirror' and Michael Jackson was not a top result. Terrible.

I feel like I have to visit this cafe that is in so many of our shows.

Okay, Kyo, shoot your shot!

It appears that Songjam is dealing with tech that's about 30 years older than ours. He didn't seem to recognize the idea of a game store, but also didn't seem too wowed about an iPad.

These boys seem very gay about each other.

Is the conflict with the father around the mom's love of her books and Aksorn's desire to be a writer? I feel like the subs are letting me down here.

Okay, it was about becoming a writer.

Big fan of this dancing scene. We should get more romantic fantasies in the first episodes more often.

We're definitely in pulp territory here, but I like this first episode. Things are moving a little quickly, but that's actually refreshing to feel from a Thai BL. I don't know how well the sci-fi ideas will hold together, but I'm intrigued.