#tgcf discourse

[cypherptqueer]

Normal people: Oh I love hualian alot, but huaxuan/ mulian/fenglian are quite nice and interesting as well-

Rats coming out of the sewer: HOLY FUCK YOURE EXTREMELY FUCKING STUPID, GET OUT

[please-someone-give-me-love]

People need to identify when an author create purposely a character with a purppose in the narrative, what do I mean? It's not same when a character is created to be a villian vs to be rhe mold of a perfect knight figure.

Sure, that doesn't take away wanting more deep on those characters but it's like doubting about Cinderella's prince rol in the story.

Why am I talking about? Because it's clear that Hua Cheng and Xie Lian's story is based mainly on romance, there are more emphasis on a slow burn romance but the story itself went into a morre fantasy/mytological story with prince, kingdoms, gods, ghost, etc. We follow the story as a farytale and every character is based on that.

Hua Cheng follows your typical knight armored love interest willing to risk everything and gave everything to their love, that's his role and it's on purpose, is part of the dynamic with his relationship withh Xie (Just Xie is also a warrior lol) but the point is that, he directly comes from a farytale story and that's what I love so much, a character I can fantasize in that way and while I unserstand wanting to know more of his pov, I alsl think a lot of people tend to reduce his narrative, his pain and his role in the story.

Just love Hua if you like the dynamic and if you don't, then it's fine, but just move on.

[lewiscarrolatemybrain]

Friendly reminder that the suffering and torment Xie Lian experienced actually made him LESS kind, and the lessons he learned as a result of that pain were that human life is meaningless and compassion is worthless and people don't deserve your help or care or love for them. Xie Lian had to backtrack and reject these new lessons in favor of the old ones he had already known in order to return to being kind.

Xie Lian losing everything he loved and knew, being stripped of his power, autonomy, safety, and community, and being ridiculed and humiliated, did not teach him anything worth knowing. He did not learn any valuable or important lessons from it. In fact, he needed to consciously decide that he wasn't going to let it change him and work to go back to the person he was before all that shit happened in order to avoid turning evil.

[mdzs-owns-my-ass-i-guess]

The reason why Jun Wu was so obsessed with modelling Xie Lian after himself was to prove himself what happened wasnt his own personal failing but the kind of thing that would happen to anyone else in order for himself to be able to make peace with his choices in this essay i will-

[tossawary]

It's very ironic to get comments on "Scum Villain" fics that are essentially revenge fantasies against certain characters, given... uh... everything about "Proud Immortal Demon Way" and how the story of SVSSS interacts with that in-universe story.

Sometimes, it's mildly amusing. Sometimes, it's a little disturbing, depending on how violent and disproportionate the fantasy is, because even if I've written some villain as a real asshole, I don't want to open my inbox to people wishing death and gory violence on anyone. A couple times, it took me a hot second to figure out that the violent fantasy wasn't directed at ME specifically.

Thankfully, that extremism is quite rare, so it's more often people wishing milder physical pains or, uh, complete social humiliation on certain characters, sometimes just for the "crime" of being mild inconveniences or slightly unfriendly to the fic's protagonist. Most of the time, I assume this is some form of playful exaggeration on the commenter's part, a reader exorcising mild annoyance at a fictional antagonist and expressing some sympathy or compassion for the hurt protagonist. A reader mentioning they kind of want to see a character grovel pathetically for forgiveness only to get kicked in the face is not necessarily a reader who wants that revenge fantasy to actually happen in the story.

Sometimes, though, it is hard to tell if someone genuinely thinks that all of Cang Qiong Mountain Sect should be destroyed because Luo Binghe was abused or Shang Qinghua was overworked. Like, I sure hope this is just hyperbole! I sure hope that you don't honestly think that "an eye for an eye" or "I take two of your eyes and also your tongue because you took one of my eyes" are, like, reasonable justice policies! I sure hope that you don't sincerely think that collective punishment is in any way a good thing and that a random junior disciple on the tenth peak (who probably doesn't even know who Luo Binghe is) deserves to suffer because the original Shen Qingqiu was a really shitty person.

But revenge fantasies like "Proud Immortal Demon Way" are popular for a reason, so I can never quite be sure! In every fandom, you have Peerless Cucumbers demanding that villain characters be castrated or killed for being abusive pricks, who cheer on the fictional revenge fantasy of hurting someone ten times as much as they hurt you, and some fans would be absolutely horrified by that kind of "retribution" in real life and others would... cheer that real life "punishment" on as well.

I don't really have a strong point to make with this post! This post is too long to be a casual reminder: "Hey, I hope you're always keeping in mind that messages you send on the internet are being directly received by real people who 1) can't read your tone and 2) don't know your 'real life' opinions to immediately know if you're joking." And I'm focused more here on how amusingly ironic this type of commenting is in regards to SVSSS and PIDW specifically.

Like, it's fun sometimes to get a little "Peerless Cucumber" about our favorite protagonists! (Shen Yuan said a lot of shit on the internet about PIDW but apparently generally doesn't really want people in SVSSS to suffer.) But once your revenge fantasy starts getting a little too detailed in regards to public humiliation and social ruin, torture and dismemberment, arson and leaving someone to get eaten alive by fire ants, making everyone who ever mildly slighted you beg for their life at your feet... It's like, "Bro, I don't think this comment is even Peerless Cucumber levels anymore. You are straight-up getting into original Luo Binghe territory here."

[biboomerangboi]

The way I know in my heart that Hua Cheng would absolutely love for Xie Lian to get him pregnant but like not in a normal horny way but more like if this man knew who the Virgin Mary was he would be filled with such white hot jealousy I think he’d explode.

[miniminijiminni]

one of the things that gets lost in a lot of the discussions around tgcf is that hua cheng knows xie lian can take care of himself. xie lian knows he can take care of himself. although he's had 800 years of bad luck, that's different than not knowing how to take care of yourself. not just that, throughout the whole book, especially the flashbacks, shows how xie lian tries to shoulder all the weight of the world by himself. hua cheng just shows him that he doesn't have to do go through it alone

[goobus-boobus]

yall are not gonna believe the name of this yaoi ass supermarket

[drivingmebonkas]

The hell is going on in the MDZS fandom right now?

The SVSSS guys are as chill as ever, revelling in their fun and weirdness.

The TGCF guys are too busy being horny over the new ghost rut audio to be up to much else.

But I swear by whatever deities apply, my MDZS feed has been filled with little else but discourse and fan drama. What happened to all the art and meta discussion? Why is everyone attacking each other?

Follow your MXTX fandom siblings lead and either revel in the weirdness, be chillax or be horny.

No more squabbling in my dash please 🥺

[yea-baiyi]

people on twitter are discoursing about whether xie lian’s chastity-based cultivation is a form of abuse (?????) which is so backward to me like huh???? yes jun wu’s thing about xie lian being a virgin is fucking creepy and weird and part of his overall obsession and desire to control him. but did they just completely miss the part where xie lian chose this method of cultivation bc the abstinence wasn’t an issue for him? he got hit by sex pollen and never once thought of sex? he didn’t even cultivate for 700 years and just never had sex because he never wanted to and as soon as he found a guy he wanted to fuck he just went for it? literally didn’t even pause to consider the cultivation thing at any point. if this were any other character it might have been used against him but the whole point is xie lian once again perfectly dodging jun wu’s manipulation attacks by just being a weird little guy with autism

[danmei-confessions]

MXTX’s novels have an adult rating. You should not be interacting in the fandom if you are a minor full stop

I believe a lot of petty arguments in the fandom start because of teenagers hot takes and misunderstanding of the books. I mean it, no matter how mature you believe you are, there is a reason for ratings in books to exist (apart from porn)

Also I believe is ridiculous to have to hear prudish takes, I am ace so I get if someone doesn’t want to engage in that side of conversation but is infuriating to read someone complaining about adult content *existence*. Get out

.

[nyerus]

Hi! I would love to hear your thoughts about classism in TGCF, but specifically regarding XL. It surprised me to see people hating on XL for not knowing or doing better during his teenage years of luxury as the crown prince and making XL a complete villain because he didn't take down classism and restructure society despite still being a kid himself. It struck me as odd that the fandom is well aware of his 800 years in poverty but also not really addressing the fact that XL, too, is a victim of classism albeit a little different from someone like MQ.

Hi there! So sorry it's taken me this long to get to this ask, I've just been in sort of a funk for a few days haha.

But yeah, this is definitely a topic that comes up from time to time, with lots of discussion about. It surprises me that despite that, there are still people (maybe just newer fans? idk) who still hate on Xie Lian for his naive views as a 17yo. Especially since, despite being a naive 17yo, he still really wanted to help people less fortunate than himself. He didn't quite understand how to do this in the most effective ways (because he was a teenager), so it came off as somewhat patronizing as he was a person in a position of power compared to everyone else. Yet his desire to help people was genuine, and he didn't personally think of "common folk" as being any lesser than "royalty" -- even though in this case, there kind of literally was a difference. (E.g. when Lang Ying goes from being a commoner to a king, he gets a "kingly aura" that protects him!) So it's honestly kind of incredible that Xie Lian is willing to say things like "I think people are equal, even gods and humans, and if the Heavens disagree with me, then it's the Heavens that are wrong" with his entire heart.

I imagine a large part of the hate Xie Lian gets from certain fans is jealousy or resentment, due to the fact that Xie Lian was "born privileged." But on it's own, "privilege" is not "the great enemy" -- it's what said privilege means in the context of society, and what someone does/doesn't do with it that merits judgement. Xie Lian doesn't fully understand the privilege he had until he loses it (again: because he was 17!), but he still understood it enough to use it to protect and help people. That's more than many other characters can say. Him starting out as a prince doesn't automatically disqualify him from class struggles or the horrors of poverty. It's nonsensical to think so, when this is a character who literally spent almost 800 years busking for scraps, while sleeping in dirt outside and eating garbage….

On the flip side, as you mentioned Mu Qing -- yes, he was a victim of classism. But he's a very strange figure to use as the poster boy for that, though he often is by people who are critical of Xie Lian. This may be a controversial take, despite it being something I think that makes the character of Mu Qing really interesting: but he's a very "typical" guy within the concept of classism. He's someone who started off with a bad lot, but then ended up ascending to the highest point you pretty much can in that world/society. Which is great! He did that through hard work, and it paid off! But now, since he got his "happy ending," that's kind of it for him. He doesn't do anything to materially improve the lives of those less fortunate, especially those he has no personal connection with. This doesn't make him a bad person -- it's not really his job to that, even as a god. He's a martial god, so he's there to subdue threats and all that. Yet you can clearly see, that's exactly the type of person society values because such "rags to riches" stories give legitimacy to the whole system, and because they don't rock the boat once they're on top.

So then it's odd to be angry at Xie Lian but not Mu Qing (or others) for the lack of some "grand revolution" that some readers seem to want.

Ironically, Xie Lian used what power he had to try and help people -- and he was worse off for it. If he had done nothing, he would have been able to live a happy and carefree life. He would have lived and died as a rich prince/king with no troubles. Like, that's the point! The societies we live in punish those who want to broadly help others or make meaningful change, while rewarding those who quietly play the game for themselves -- because it helps keep the wheels turning. It doesn't matter at "what end" of the spectrum you start out on, the rules apply the same way. If you go against the establishment, there's a price to be paid.

Throughout Xie Lian's long journey, he learns this lesson the hard way. And the fact that in order to change it, he would somehow have to change the hearts and minds of pretty much everyone -- which is an impossible ask. How is he even supposed to that, or restructure society as a whole, without vast amounts of collateral damage? In the end, Xie Lian discovers that he was not wrong in his desire to help people, even if he cannot help everyone. He can still help people he meets in whatever ways he can, and that is still important. To show kindness, mercy, and empathy towards your fellow man is worth it. Helping your neighbors or complete strangers you meet once and then never again -- all that is still worth it.

I wish I had the time to sit down and really talk about this in a more organized way, but these disjointed thoughts are all I can manage at the moment! I hope it was still valuable to you in some way, and thank you for sending in the ask!

(Also, I recently reblogged a post that talked about something similar if you wanna check it out, Anon. It's right under the manhua highlights I think!)

[please-someone-give-me-love]

I am not saying Mu Qing didn't suffer by why y'all victimize him so much, like even comparing his traumas with Xie?😭

[mxtxfanatic]

Fandom Gripes #24: Fans acting like the act of interfering in a rapidly deteriorating situation with the intention of helping makes you not only a bad person but also just as bad as (or worse than) the person/people causing the bad situation has got to stop. Blaming mxtx protags for not successfully saving the people they tried to help despite directly helping while others were either 1) actively trying to kill the people the protags were trying to help or 2) passively watching as others actively tried to kill the people the protags were trying to help is like irl when a good Samaritan saves someone’s life but then get sued later because saving said person’s life left them with injuries. Which is why we now have to have Good Samaritan Laws in America to discourage people from deciding that saving a life isn’t worth the consequences.

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

One final cooking poll.

[bluuskkye77]

Thoughts?