#terms of address

[high-pot-in-noose]

Terms of Address Within English

Sir is from 'sire', from the Latin 'senior.' In Latin, 'senior' is both masc. and fem., and the neutral is 'senius.'

Following the logic of the root language, it wouldn't be wrong to call men and women sir. Also, if we were to transform 'senius' equivalently, we'd get 'sis,' which means sis is actually perfectly neu. and is a valid, respectful term of address.

Ma'am comes from 'madam,' from the Latin 'mea+domina.' The masc. would be 'meus+dominus,' and the neu. would be 'meum+dominum.'

Based on how 'mea+domina' was smooshed and chopped to eventually make 'ma'am', if we were to do the same for the masc. and neu., 'ma'am' would apply to them as well. Ma'am is thus for all genders.

But what I'm after here is a term of address that by default is intended for agendered and/or polygendered folks.

Both sir and ma'am refer to (among other things) a head of household — a person of authoritative standing.

'Hērēs' means 'inheritor of household' and is both masculine and feminine. If we were to dissemble it in the way we did 'senior' into 'sir,' we'd get hirs [homophone of 'hearse'].

Alternatively, we could follow the example of 'ma'am', and go with 'meus+hērēs.' Doing so, we'd end up with ma'er [homophone of 'mere'].

OR we could mess around with 'senius,' 'meum/-us/-am,' and 'dominum' some more.

'Meus+senius' could be chopped (phonetically) into ma'en [homophone of 'mean'], and 'dominum' would dissemble à la 'sir' into doum [homophone of 'doom'].

What I'm saying here is that women can be sirs, sis is respectful to anyone and is perfectly fit for the workplace, ma'am is for everyone who's not a little bitch, and we could be out here getting spicy as hirses, ma'ers, ma'ens, and doums with just a little extra thought.

[amariasolo]

Look, I know The Witcher is trying to be "the next Game of Thrones" and I respect that, but fake-Ciri just addressed Emhyr as "Your Grace" and I thought that was a dumb world-building choice when George R.R. Martin made it, let alone whoever snuck that into the Witcher script. Haven't they addressed sovereigns of the realm as "Your Majesty" before in this series? Am I going to have to go back and look that up? Is there some in-universe reason that Emhyr would be a "Grace" when every other monarch is a "Majesty"? Or is this exactly as dumb as I think it is

[yesnowhatno]

Lawful good: “Ladies, Gentlemen, and distinguished guests”

Chaotic good: “Bitches, bros, and non-binary hoes”

Lawful evil: “all you rock and rollers”

Chaotic evil: “everypony”

[cat-appreciator]

I’ve used “cats and kittens” before. I’m charmed by the critter-creature spectrum though!

people keep trying to make "ladies and gentlemen" more inclusive.

I think we should go the other way around.

make more and more weird false dichotomies in greetings. "gamers and pianists". "oil painters and swordsmen". "vexillologists and entomologists". "chess masters and diamond artificers". "accountants and gendered individuals".

we need to be dropping shit into formal meetings to make people say "wait what? which one am I?"

[poorly-drawn-mdzs]

Hello Madam. Sorry Madam.

[First] Prev <–-> Next

[katabay]

THERE AIN'T NO ATLAS, KID. NEVER WAS.

if you peel him back far enough, there's nothing but a pile of theater masks

like, it's really fun how fontaine starts spiralling out the closer jack gets to him in the final arc of the game and returns to appropriating the image of family (the fake family in the beginning, the flawed father position later) to try and appeal to jack in some way but it's like. buddy. baby. you already took off your mask. anything you try and put on after this is going to come across as cheap and desperate. the magic is gone! and personally? I'm hooting and hollering

⭐ places I’m at! bsky / pixiv / pillowfort /cohost / cara.app / insta

[koipalm]

liushennnn in my attendant sy au (read right to left)

notes on this au:

sy transmigrates into a new body when sqq fights the system trying to force him out of his body. sqq is livid and decides to take sy as his retainer/secretary/assistant, forcing him to do most of the accounting & administrative work on qing jing peak and work for sqq for free while also helping sqq avoid his tragic fate by telling him spoilers and secrets about the world that sy remembers. sy has no golden core and no cultivation, and cant wield a spiritual sword or fight. sy has no documents, no money, and no prospects. sqq basically provides everything for him & can also take it away. sy moves into the other room in the bamboo house and cleans and organizes as well, although his own room is a mess. sqq never makes it clear what sy's position on the peak is, so all of the disciples follow his orders in fear of disobeying sqq. sy is basically 2nd to sqq, although he doesnt see it that way; he sees himself as sqq's overworked servant. he resents sqq for his control over sy's life, but he's terrified of being kicked out.

sqq takes sy to the peak lord meetings as well, using sy to carry documents, serve tea, and to give him information about anything that might be useful to sqq if it comes up during the meeting. sy also often acts as a messenger for sqq between peaks. he doesnt get much interaction outside of senior disciples and the other peak lords.

since sy's hands are usually full with documents, accounting books, talisman paper, & anything else sqq wants him to carry, sy can't use his fan to hide his face as much. instead he uses his hair & his glasses. his skin is sallow & he often misses meals from running around doing sqq's errands, so he always seems tired. clothes he wears are simple & loose, either slip on or buttoned up. he dislikes loud & bright patterns bc he doesn't want to stand out, but sometimes has no choice bc sqq buys his clothes. sqq will often make him wear more extravagant patterns, even when it makes sy nervous about attracting attention.

since sy seemed to appear out of nowhere to the other sect members, sy is very worried about acting too suspicious and getting kicked out. he copies sqq as much as possible to acclimate to the world and seem unphased & elegant.

sy is very interested in the other peak lords since he interacts with them often, especially liu qingge. liu qingge often catches him staring, but sy tries not to interact with anyone more than he has to. liu qingge usually sees him hiding behind sqq as a buffer. if sy does speak, he does it low & quiet, & if behind his fan if possible.

sy looks like his old body & has long black hair, similarly styled to sqq by his insistence. sy dislikes this.

sqq calls sy "a-yuan" bc sy doesnt like it. sy doesnt like telling people his name though bc it makes ppl think theyre related, which he also doesnt like, so he doesnt stop sqq from indroducing sy as "a-yuan". this makes it very difficult for other ppl to know what to call sy in fear of being too familiar

sy does meet sqh earlier in this au, and he helps him as much as he can get away with behind sqq's back. since sy is less bound by the system than sqh is, sqh sometimes "sponsors" sy to do things he himself cant do.

sy calls sqq the equivalent of "sir".

[pansyfemme]

mmm but. i miss pansyfemme as a url already. but im lowkey really tired of people sending me asks questioning terminology i have explained dozens of times in the past so ive been. stepping away a bit from the term femme- not because i dont identify with it anymore. just that this blog’s gotten a bit of attention lately, and while a lot of the circles ive always run in tend to know the history of the term femme is not one exclusive to one gender or identity, people seeing my posts on my dash send me a lot of asks about it in heavily varying levels of politeness. and while i have explained it with sources and everything in the past,, i kind of. hate doing that all the time and despite having a faq people still. dont read it. so i kinda. uh. more so just. dont feel like justifying myself ten times a day and i also. dont like ignoring the asks so.. it will be definitly a term i will still use but kind of dont want in my username anymore. does that make any sense.

[gumbleboy]

Gorosei on the Snail Laptop (snaptop)

[die-tenebris]

don't wanna derail the post I saw this discussion on- it was all in the notes anyway, so it certainly isn't op's problem. I'm gonna say this with so much love:

Calling somebody a 'theyfab' is not punching up. If someone's being transmisogynistic, say that, or call them a bigot. Naming the tangible harm done to you will always be the most effective thing to do.

The cis people who created that term made it with the explicit intent to mock and insult people's identities. No matter what you mean when you say it, this is its origin and to most people, its only meaning. It describes nothing about the discrimination you face.

People afab are marginalized, especially if they're queer. You cannot "punch up" on a fellow oppressed group. I understand the specific vitriol that they inflict on you hurts.

You don't need a word to call somebody, you need and deserve adequate justice for the tangible harm done to you; and my heart aches that nobody queer- especially trans women- ever seems to receive that.

I'm aware I can't make anybody do anything, so I'm not gonna try to tell you not to use that word. I just want to say it can't ever address, undo, or heal any harm done to you. It can only redirect it.

[wavesoutbeingtossed]

Thinking about "So Long, London" as one does and the "I'm pissed off you let me give you all that youth for free" which is devastating enough on its own as a succinct shorthand of saying "I gave you some of my most formative years thinking we were committed to the same life plans together" (as in building a family life together) but with ~everything~ can also be a statement of her entrusting him with her youthful hopes and dreams and joy and earnestness only for it all to be cast aside and not returned (and at worst, weaponized).

[high-pot-in-noose]

hiii i have a question re: martial terms of address in xianxia/wuxia. the martial siblings of your teacher are referred to as shibo/shishu regardless of gender of the martial sibling or your teacher, but what about martial siblings of your biological parents? is it still just shibo/shishu, or would more specific terms like gu/tang/jiu/yi be used, ex. shijiu for your biological mother's martial brother or shitang for your biological father's younger martial sister? or is that not a thing and parents' martial siblings are called the same as teacher's martial siblings

You've brought up a really interesting question here. Now that I'm thinking about it, I haven't seen a lot of representation for the martial sibling of one's parents in the stories I've read. I recall maybe 2-3 instances vaguely, but that's about it. Huh.

As far as I'm aware (based on what I remember seeing in translations), the martial siblings of one's parents are addressed one of two ways: 1) the same way one would address the friends of one's parents, or 2) the same way one would address their master's martial siblings. The difference depends on if you are also a member of the same school/sect.

Maybe your parent retired from duty before you were old enough to begin training as well, leading you both to be officially civilians; maybe life has just led to you not being a cultivator/martial artist. In those cases, it would be more appropriate to just address them as aunt or uncle in the same way you would for any elder not blood-related to you. But if you all are part of the same organization, then it's the other way.

Actually, a 3rd scenario just occurred to me: If you are training under a master who isn't your parent, then you would address your parent's martial siblings as aunt/uncle in private, but in public in the manner of how they'd relate to your master. If the relation is not as clean-cut as "master's martial elder/junior," then it would acceptable to just address them as "Sect Elder."

[rontra]

they love to do a UI-based bit THEY LOVE IT

anyway after much groupchat rumination over In-game Adjectives and also Vibes, i made another UI Based Bit,

girl that is not a star shape. what is that hting

[under-lok-n-ki]

saw this post and had some thoughts that I needed to make known

also made a version without words just in case I wanted to post this somewhere else without having to explain anything 💀

[blueskittlesart]

i know we love the usps here but oh my god these bitches are getting on my last nerve

[vashtijoy]

terms of address: maruki

I was asked how the squad refer to Maruki, so here goes.

first, the normies

Many of the cast refer to Maruki exclusively as "Dr. Maruki": 丸喜先生 Maruki-sensei. These mentions are universally in kanji.

Ann has 41 of these, and often uses sensei by itself;

Haru has 26 of these, and uses sensei alone a couple of times, during Maruki's Palace;

Makoto has 27 of these. She uses sensei alone quite often;

Yoshizawa has 41 of these total, 14 as Kasumi and 27 as Sumire. She calls Maruki just sensei often.

Noticing anything? Yeah: they're all the girls. These particular characters consistently seem to have relatively colourless and unmarked speech. This may in itself, of course, be a form of marking, since expectations around gendered speech in Japan can be so strong.

the relatively boring

Ren appears to always use "Maruki", apart from one instance very early on when an option, "Ask about the counsellor", includes Maruki-sensei. He also always uses kanji; protagonists don't have to be polite.

He calls Maruki sensei alone once, during his confidant. Kawakami gets it more often, while Takemi gets it constantly.

slightly more edgy

While Futaba always uses "Dr. Maruki", she slurs it a little, making it slangier: 丸喜せんせー Maruki-sensee. She always uses kanji for "Maruki", except in the text chat after he visits Shujin, where she's only heard his name spoken!—which is a cute detail. Occasionally she uses せんせー sensee by itself, which is distinct from her 先生 sensei meaning "a teacher".

Ryuji, again, virtually always makes it "Dr. Maruki", usually Maruki-sensei in kanji; a few mentions very early on, when they're still talking about the new counsellor guy, are just straight "Maruki". Also, in his counselling session, Ryuji almost just calls him that!—ultimately deciding to make it "Dr. Maruki":

Ryuji なあ、丸喜⋯センセーってよ、よく『変わってる』って言われね? naa, maruki... sensee tte yo, yoku "kawatteru" tte iwarene? Hey, Dr. Maru— ah, I mean, Doc. Anyone ever tell you you're kinda… not normal?

The meaning is a little lost in translation here, with Ryuji cutting from the normal form of address to a nickname. Also, in Maruki's Palace, he recognises Maruki on one of the videotapes, and starts off in hiragana before finishing in kanji. It feels a bit as if he isn't initially sure what he's seeing:

Ryuji まるき… 丸喜先生？ maruki... maruki-sensei? Maruki... Dr. Maruki?

He uses sensei by itself a couple of times, far fewer than you might expect; his "Doc" is usually either glossed in, or was originally Maruki-sensei, "Dr. Maruki".

He also uses 大先生 daisensei, "great leader/teacher/artist" etc, as a term of abuse, aimed at palace bosses such as Shido and Madarame. 獅童大先生 shidou-daisensei—"that stuck-up bastard Shido!".

the slightly outlandish...

Morgana overwhelmingly uses katakana for names, and Maruki is no exception. He talks about him a lot, always in katakana, as マルキ Maruki. He never uses any honorifics for him.

He has only one use of kanji, 丸喜 Maruki, in "will you meet with this confidant?" text, around I think rank 5, which looks like it may be a slip.

the strangely polite...

Akechi, of course, fails to grace Maruki with his title of "doctor"; he's just plain "Maruki". The localisation sometimes makes it "Dr. Maruki", but that's a gloss; Akechi never once uses sensei (or any other honorific) about him.

But he uses an honorific to Maruki, once:

That "isn't that right" is ですよね desu yo ne, which might seem startlingly polite for third semester Akechi. In fact, he's rather consistent about his masu forms to Maruki—and only to Maruki—during the third semester.

He has no uses of desu or -masu/-masen, for instance, to anyone else in the third semester. It's actually rather cute, because it makes it clear a number of his lines in the 1/2 and 1/9 Palace are directed not to Ren or Yoshizawa, as it might seem, but to Maruki.

So this looks like a sardonic little aside, and I'm sure there's a lot of that in it—"Maruki-san". But this is also the only time Akechi ever addresses Maruki by name. And since he has all these desu and -masu forms going on around Maruki, then maybe he just calls him Maruki-san, full stop.

Did I mention he's a weird boy?

...and the downright weird

That leaves us with Yusuke, who (as nobody will be surprised to hear) does his own thing that raises some fascinating possibilities.

Yusuke only appears to address Maruki by name once, when they first meet in the courtyard, and as you'd expect, he calls him sensei—丸喜拓人先生 Maruki Takuto-sensei, "You are Dr. Takuto Maruki, correct?".

But every other time Yusuke uses sensei in the script? He's referring not to Maruki, of course, but to his sensei, Madarame. That initial approach to Maruki, stranger to stranger, face to face, is the only time he uses it to anyone else.

So what does Yusuke call Maruki? He calls him 丸喜氏 Maruki-shi.

what is shi

氏 shi is a very formal and exclusively third-person term, usually seen in writing, or heard from newsreaders. It's often translated "Mr X", which can be very odd to hear in media that retains honorifics like -san and -kun; "Mr. Akechi's coming on!" is an example, from 6/10. And Akechi is, in fact, usually mentioned as Akechi-shi on the evening news.

Yusuke's Maruki-shi is universally translated as "Dr. Maruki", as if he'd just said Maruki-sensei like everyone else. Which is a little bit of a shame.

Yusuke also uses shi for one other person—the art patron Kawanabe, in his confidant, before you meet up at the sushi bar. Most of the rest of the time, before and after, Yusuke just calls Kawanabe "Kawanabe" in third-person, with no title; he pulls out a Kawanabe-san at rank 10, after he's won the contest—face to face, of course, since shi is only third-person.

On the other hand, Yusuke never mentions Maruki at all without a title.

the other time yusuke uses sensei

Okay, I lied: Yusuke has one other instance of Maruki-sensei. This, like Morgana's single lapse into kanji, is in prompt text: "Are we going to Maruki's Palace today?" Again, I think this is likely an error.

revision history

Click here for the latest version.

v1.0 (2023/12/29)—first posted.