#swan does commentary i guess?
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RE8 HCs: Dimitrescu Family + Horror Films
Just some short headcanons for Halloween, about which kinds of horror movies I think the ladies would enjoy.
Alcina Dimitrescu:
Favorite Sub-Genre: Monster/Slasher
Alcina isn’t a huge fan of horror, but if a movie features a female killer/monster… she’ll pay attention, for sure. Always roots for the villain, and might make quiet commentary about how the villain could have been more efficient.
Least Favorite Sub-Genre: Gore (splatter)
Tends to get bored quickly by “excessive” gore. It doesn’t scare her, nor does it catch her attention. She much prefers the real thing.
Movies I think she’d like: JENNIFER’S BODY, Friday the 13th (1980)
Bela Dimitrescu:
Favorite Sub-Genre: Psychological/Folk
Bela likes movies that make her think, so while she usually indulges in mysteries, she’s a fan of psychological horror films as well. They can keep her guessing, making her wonder what’s real and what’s not, and tend to have the kind of pacing that keeps her attention. Folk horror reminds her of home<3
Least Favorite Sub-Genre: Paranormal (of the religious sort)
Doesn’t particularly like watching priests give exorcisms or cleanse houses. Bela considers a lot of the sub-genre to be bloated with films that overuse jump-scares, and she has enough other films to watch to not bother finding good examples of the genre.
Movies I think she’d like: The Shining, Midsommar, Black Swan
Cassandra Dimitrescu:
Favorite Sub-Genre: Slasher/Gore (splatter)/Anything artsy
What can I say, our girl loves anything bloody, violent, and downright messy. On top of that, of the family, she’s closest to being a genuine horror film buff. She’ll watch just about any horror flick, but she has a definite preference for old school slasher films. It’s guaranteed that she’s quoted classic lines before making kills of her own.
Least Favorite Sub-Genre: Comedy (but barely)
Cassandra’s not against horror comedy as a principle or anything, but she just rarely finds ones that keep enough horror for her personal tastes. To be fair, she can also find humor in most films, if only due to her trademark bloodlust and sadism.
Movies I think she’d like: Nightmare On Elm Street, Jennifer’s Body, Saw (all of them), The Thing
Daniela Dimitrescu:
Favorite Sub-Genre: Comedy/Monster
Similar to her mother, Daniela’s interest in horror movies is subdued by her ability to inflict horror upon others. So, she watches them for the things that aren’t as readily available in her day to day life: Humor and romance. In other words, she’s had crushes on more movie monsters than she can count.
Least Favorite Sub-Genre: Any of Cassandra’s favorites
She just doesn’t want to have to pause the movie every five minutes to hear Cassandra ramble about the special effects, filming techniques, or various bits of lore the director revealed in future productions.
Movies I think she’d like: Cabin in the Woods, Tucker & Dale vs. Evil, Scream
Bonus!Avaskian Caldwell:
Favorite Sub-Genre: Comedy/Paranormal/Anything so bad that it’s funny
Ava loves dark humor, and readily consumes horror comedies. When xe wants a genuine scare, xe normally goes for something involving paranormal forces and elements of thrillers, as those tend to set off xer paranoia. One of xer favorite hobbies in general is making fun of bad movies, and this extends to the horror genre.
Least Favorite Sub-Genre: Slasher (but only sometimes)
Very wary of certain tropes that were common in older slasher movies, especially the whole “virgin purity”/”characters punished for having sex” thing.
Movies I think xe’d enjoy: Dave Built A Maze, Tucker & Dale vs. Evil, Banshee Chapter
#re8 headcanons#resident evil headcanons#alcina dimitrescu#bela dimitrescu#cassandra dimitrescu#daniela dimitrescu#avaskian caldwell#j has ocs
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RAP:PUBLIC Ep.6 Part 1 Thoughts
Back with commentary for ep.6
Hash Swan's hoodie/vest is from Ash Island's, X:Ordinary clothing line! Cute!
They were trying to figure out who Drain K looks like so they can tease him lol. He looks like multiple people out together for me. It's hard to put a finger on it lol
Drain K looks so much smaller offstage. I guess his stage presence in the Block Breaker mission made him look bigger to me.
8 v 5 now: the devil outfits were cute. It was extra but they were having fun lol. 99 are dope! They are good rappers + have good performance/energy but something is missing for me. I think it doesn't go with the instrumental that well. It doesn't enhance the song. And please get Daniel Jikal's ass off the floor. No hitting the crybaby! That move has always been so awkward to me lol
OK team 5 also doesn't fit the instrumental that well either. Everybody had to write and practice these songs in a REALLY short amount of time so I think I should just lower my expectations.
I think the teams are pretty neck and neck but it seems like the rappers are enjoying team 5 better. Personally, I think team 5 is better rap wise. However, the energy in the performance is lacking compared to Block 8.
I think I'd vote Block 5. And yeah they won.
Dommiu is so pretty! (I think I might have already said this in another thoughts post. I'll stop saying it now. Random ass side note, I followed her on IG today lol)
Block 5 seems weirdly unsure of themselves. They are such a solid block. The imposter syndrome is real! Of course, going on a show like this is gonna exacerbate that even without trying. So I get it.
Block 6 vs Block 7:
Oh shit. I never even considered the fact that members who switch teams can give intel on the old team if they wanted to. It's obvious though tbh.
Is Marv's hair more platinum now or am I trippin?
OK so I can kinda see Chaboom and Marv 's perspective. From Chaboom's end, he doesn't want to keep putting the same people in. If it keeps happening, they can feel as if the team sees them as expendable. This could lead to them going to another team. Also, we have seen that putting the strongest rappers in the deathmatch is (or can be) somewhat advantageous since they'll have the highest liklihood of coming back. This means you won't lose any members.
On Marv's side, he feels like he's been doing well so why put him (and other high performers) at risk of elimination? Numbers aren't always as important as having a strong team. They earned their spot so why give them no benefit in return? This is ALSO a way to lose members because the high performing members could also get resentful and defect to another team.
Chaboom ends up agreeing with Marv and tells the team he will basically choose based on merit/skill level. I understand Chaboom's dilemma and him wanting to be nice/save everyone, but this IS a competition. Some teams will have no choice but to put in their strongest members for elimination (block 8 and block 5 for exampe since they already had members be eliminated). There's definitely people on other teams that can beat out any Block 7 member. It's risky.
Mckdaddy comes in strong. Very clear, clean, and strong. Kohway and Kaogaii do as well. It fits the instrumental a lot better. I think this team will win. Gwangil Jo is great too. Everybody killed this round. The hook has the other rappers in the crowd singing along too. I think they'll win.
Judging in advance: I don't think 7 will be as cohesive as Block 6. They all practiced separately.
Should I be petty or judge Owen neutrally? I'll just say nothing lol
Marv messes up. It's over. Foggy does too. The hook isn't terrible but not as good as the block 6. Its a bit TOO repetitive. Yeah, it's over. I think Block 6 won.
Yeah block 6 won.
Marv is a little bullheaded right now. Owen is being the voice of reason?!?
Chaboom's analysis was perfect. I think Marv is just disappointed with himself.
Owen is lowkey pressing Marv. Marv won't back down either! I think Owen is being aggressive. His body language, tone, and saying things like "What did I just say?" I get that Owen is the elder (in age and career seniority) and Korean society has that whole elder respect thing. At the end of they day, Marv is still a grown ass man. He obviously won't appreciate being talked to as if he is Owen's child. Owen's not even the leader! It'd be different if it was Chaboom. Even then, Chaboom seems like he has better communication. More respectful but still assertive. He probably would have approached it better. I don't think Owen would have appreciated someone talking to him that way.
Marv took it well. But somehow my blood is boiling on his behalf. Maybe it's just cause it's Owen tbh. I won't deny my own bias lol
Aww Marv is crying. I wanna give him a hug. All the younger rappers are gonna be crying this season.
Now it's the other half of Block 6 vs the same members of Block 5.
Okay guys. I actually REALLY wanna keep watching but it's already so late. I gotta go be a ReSpONsIbLE aDUlT and sleep so I can work tomorrow but I'll be back soon! (Stopping at ~48 minutes)
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Episode 63 Transcript: The Trenchcoat Stays ON During Sex
[intro guitar music]
G: Hello! My name is Grey.
C: And my name is Crystal.
G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show several times...
C: And I, someone who only knows about the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.
G: Both Asian! For this episode, we will be discussing "In the Beginning"- no. 4.03. What? Okay, wait. Okay, so for this episode, we will be discussing Season 4, Episode 3: "In the Beginning," written by Jeremy Carver, directed by Steve Boyum. Have I heard of Steve Boyum before?
C: I think so. The name sounds familiar. Oh, it looks like he directed "Crossroad Blues." Oh, and [both] “Dream a Little Dream of Me.”
G: Yeah, Andrew, My little drink of me.
G: Yeah. Oh my god! He will direct “Swan Song.”
C: Ooh. That's exciting.
G: Wait. These are iconic episodes. Like, at the end, he directs “Death Takes a Holiday," “Angel Heart.” You know “Angel Heart”?
C: The Claire one?
G: Yep. He directs that. That's nice. "Song Remains the Same," he directs it, which is terribly connected to this episode.
C: Yeah, that makes sense.
G: Yeah. You know what “Song Remains the Same” is about?
C: Well, Anna goes back in time to kill John and Mary so that Sam can’t be born, right?
G: Yah.
C: Which is so sexy of her.
G: Good for her. This episode, Sam- like, let's get it out of the way. [both] Sam is not in this episode.
Yeah, he shows up one scene.
C: Half a scene.
G: Yeah, half a scene. And Ruby's there. Ruby says a line. Sam doesn't. Sam literally has no speaking lines this episode. [C laughs] At least Ruby does. At least Ruby does. But Sam doesn't.
C: Yeah. A win for women.
G: A win for women's rights and wrongs.
C: But “Metamorphosis” is going to be pretty Sam-heavy, I think. Right? Right? Please?
G: "Metamorphosis"?
C: The next one? It should open with him and Ruby practicing his powers, at least. I don't know how Sam-heavy the rest of it is. Yeah.
G: I think I don't remember “Metamorphosis” a lot.
C: Well, it was on a list of- you know how there's like, that poll bracket that may have ended by now that's "best Sam episode of Supernatural"-
G: Mm, that's interesting.
C: - and it only features episodes that are somewhat Sam-heavy? “Metamorphosis” was on there, and I think made it past round 1 but not round 2, so I think it's Sam enough.
G: What's your- Do you have a Sam-centric episode in mind that you like?
C: I mean, of the ones we've watched so far, just like, “Houses of the Holy.”
G: Yeah, “Houses of the Holy” for what we watched so far. But I would say my favorite one is the flashback one with, like, the high school. I forgot the title of that episode, the high school episode. For Dean, I guess, but like, for Sam it's- I don't- I don't know. Maybe he's in middle school
C: The one where he has the English teacher, and he says to him-
G: Yeah!
C: - that he doesn't have to join the family business if he doesn't want to. I know what you're talking about, but I just don't remember the name.
G: It's called "After School Special"!
C: "After School Special"? [both] Yeah.
G: That's so sad that I can't even name the title of the episode of my favorite Sam-centered episode.
C: Yeah. I also heard that “In My Imagination” is good.
G: Oh, yeah!
C: The imaginary friends one?
G: Yeah! Yeah! That one is good. Because he literally had an imaginary friend!
C: Yeah. And that imaginary friend was gay.
G: Yeah. Because he was also gay.
C: Yes.
G: He's dead now, so that's why I'm using "was." He didn't turn straight. [both laugh]
C: [laughing] Unlike- [both laughing] [overlapping] I think, for context, we are recording this about 5 hours after Misha Collins announced at a con in New Jersey that Warner Brothers called him after he accidentally came out as bi and told him to just pretend to be bi for the rest of his life.
G: I've been saying this to Crystal, but I would have given him the same advice. Like, I would have been like, “Bro, for real. Like, just be bisexual. I don't know what to tell you.” [C laughing] I was the brother who was warning for real.
C: Yeah. [laughs] For real.
G: God. What a time. What a time we're having. Sometimes, I think to myself, “I do not give two shits about what happens in the Supernatural fandom anymore."
C: Yeah, like I try not to care about the actors.
G: Yeah.
C: But sometimes, they do things like accidentally come out as bi, and you have to care about that, regardless of your personal beliefs and feelings.
G: [laughing] We said that we were not gonna talk about it!
C: Did we?
G: I was like-
C: [laughing] I only said we wouldn't do it for a Ko-Fi bonus!
G: Literally. We talked about how we wouldn't do it for a Ko-Fi bonus, but alas, we are-
C: We are doing it for free. We are not being Misha Collins bi for gay- for pay, sorry. How do I redo that joke to make it funny? I don't think I can. Let's move on. [laughs]
G: Let us move on.
-
G: Okay, so, Crystal. “In the Beginning.” What did you know about this episode?
C: Yes. I knew that Cas brings Dean back to the past, and I thought the point of it was to show him that he couldn't change anything. But I guess that wasn't actually his main motivation, and we see young Mary, and she is beautiful and has big eyes and cowboy boots and regular-colored eyebrows. And we see her and John dating, and how her dad disapproves of it because he's not a hunter, and I guess this is the episode where the general audience finds out that Mary was a hunter at all. And I know she has like, a little speech about wanting to get out of the life. I know that John proposes to her, and then he dies, and also Azazel kills Mary's dad and possesses him. And then they like, make a deal to bring John back so that he can re-enter her house 10 years later, and Jeremy Carver loves incest so so much. [G laughs] And then in the end there's like, a shot of her like, in the headlights of Dean's car, and she looks scared, and her eyes are so big, and she looks great and it's iconic, and then Cas comes over and puts a hand on Dean’s shoulder.
G: Yeah.
C: So that's what I know.
G: Yeah. This episode, it's juicy, but- I don't know if we've talked about it in the podcast, like, main, like, podcast main- We don't have a side podcast. [C laughs] We have a Ko-Fi bonus blah blah blah. But I don't think we ever mentioned that we haven't really touched The Winchesters.
C: Oh, the show?
G: Yeah. So I feel like it bears saying- is that a term that people say? “It bears saying?”
C: It sounds familiar. Is it “warrants saying?” Do people say "bears saying"? I don't know.
G: Yeah, bears saying, bears dancing, you know. [both laugh] Goldilocks-core. I think it warrants saying that we have never watched The Winchesters, probably will never, although recently-
C: Okay, cut this out, but I have seen two episodes of it.
G: No, no, I'm not gonna cut it out. I'm not going to cut it out.
C: [laughing] Noooo!
G: Crystal watched 2 episodes. Is it the first episode and then the last episode?
C: No, I watched like, episode 4? Whichever one was titled “Masters of War." And I have also seen the finale.
G: Okay, if I- like, I have not watched anything, I have all everything about it muted and everything, like, I know nothing. So, recently, Crystal told me [both laughing] about what happens in the finale of Season 1.
C: Yeah.
G: Wow!
C: Wow.
G: Wow. I mean, I'm bringing this all up just to say that, like, we don't know what they retconned in that show, we don't know how that show affects the canon of Supernatural main. Like, we don't know. So we're not gonna really go into that. Yeah. Glad the Impala magically disappeared, though, or something. [C laughs]
C: Right. Which I mean, that seems like it should be a retcon, right? The fact that in the Winchester's John doesn't have the Impala yet or something?
G: Wait. Is the Impala his, or in-
C: No, the Impala, they summon it using like, a fucking spell in the finale, [G laughing] and then they drive it into a portal, and then Mary supposedly dies, and then it drives out of the portal and Dean’s in it.
G: [laughing] Ah. Slay. Let's start the episode.
-
G: So first and foremost, we have the “Road So Far.” Which, I quite liked.
C: Yeah.
G: I think the one that really stuck out to me is they didn't forget to include the part where Mary turns to Sam in “Home” and says, [both] “I'm sorry.” Yeah, which is like, you know, one of my favorite scenes of Season 1. Literally, she's sorry. And it's nice. I love that scene, and I'm glad to see it in a “Road So Far.”
C: Yeah, I agree. This is like, tangentially related, but, like, I made a post after watching “Home” about how John spent all of that time trying to figure out what happened to Mary when he could have just walked over and asked her. [laughs] And then recently someone reblogged it with the tags, “well maybe she just didn't want to talk to him,” and like, literally so true. Maybe she just didn't want to talk to him.
G: Wait, what are you talking about? Wait, he could have walked over and asked her, where?
C: She was like- he could have gone and asked her ghosts like, "Hey, what's up, how did you die?"
G: Oh, yeah. So real.
C: "Oh, there was a demon with yellow eyes? That's good information to have."
G: Yeah.
-
G: So we start off the episode with Sam and Dean in a motel room, and Dean is sleeping in his bed, and Sam-
C: Let's talk about Dean's sleeping arrangements.
G: Okay.
C: He has no blanket.
G: No blanket.
C: He's using his dad's leather jacket as a blanket, which does make me feel something. We find out later that apparently he also has the journal and his phone under the blanket on his lap. [G laughs] Good for him, I guess.
G: God, he's so fucking funny. He's so fucking funny.
C: And I think he's in jeans with his shoes on also.
G: Yeah. I have slept like that in my life. Dean-coded.
C: With your shoes on?
G: No, I wouldn't sleep with my shoes on, but I was wearing jeans, and I was like, in a cold, cold place, but I didn't have a blankie!
C: Aww.
G: So I used my leather jacket [laughing] to-
C: Your leather jacket specifically?
G: [laughs] Yeah! To blanket myself. [C laughing] And like, the moment I saw Dean doing this I was like, “Oh my god! I've done that.” And I literally did do that. Sam just like, looks over to make sure he's asleep and then gets out of the room. And then there's a whole sitch where like, a car pulls up, and [laughing] I thought the car was gonna hit him. But it doesn’t hit him. It's just Ruby. And Ruby just goes like, “Ready?” Oh my god, I was wrong! Sam says a line! He says, "Definitely."
C: Yeah, baby.
G: Yeah! Wow. One-line wonder.
C: Yeah. Also like, a point to Steve Boyum is that the way that it opens, like, it's a mirror shot, but we don't know it's a mirror shot until it swings around to look at Sam, like, in the motel at the first time, and that's fun. I enjoy it.
G: Love mirror shots because I know they're difficult to film. So like, it's a commitment to do them. Yeah.
C: Yeah, exactly. And I also just like the idea that he and Ruby are like, texting buddies now, you know?
G: Yeah.
C: Like, I'm assuming that's how they meet up now. Just texts on the phone, and that's such a development from like-
G: The summoning! Yeah!
C: Yeah.
G: I think what I like, was that- I mean, not "like." But I observed that last episode, the last time we see Ruby, she was like, "Bye, Sam. Never going to speak to you ever again."
C: That's true.
G: And now they're back to conniving together. And I love that!
C: Yeah.
G: It's about the pull of the attraction or whatever the fuck is going on with them.
C: Yeah. And I also wonder- like, okay, in "Laz Rising," Ruby supposedly left a bra behind, and that confused us so much, but like, while Dean was away, like, it's possible that they actually like, lived together for multiple days at a time, like, Sam and Ruby, you know?
G: Yeah.
C: So like, maybe, like, most of her stuff, was like, in a bag in the closet, but that was like, something that was left out- like, yeah. Cute of them.
-
C: Back in the motel, Dean's having his Hell dreams again that are not safe for photosensitive people. And [laughs] they just never bother showing anything else about Hell.
G: I think it's interesting that they keep on doing it where he thinks about it while he's dreaming. So like, a part of you still is trying to believe that, like, he doesn't remember.
C: Yeah, that's true.
GL But like, it is becoming more and more obvious that he does remember. And like, I like that. I like that. It isn't just like, a surprise at the end when he's like, [dramatically] "I remember everything about Hell!" Like, you see that he is remembering here. And I like that. A little bit of a pre-shadowing? I don't fucking know. Foreshadowing. [C laughs] No, because I was thinking "fore" means "forward," and it doesn't. It means "before." That's fucked up. Both have the word "fore" in it.
C: That is pretty fucked up.
G: Yeah. He wakes up and Cas is sitting [C screams] at the side of the bed. [laughing]
C: God!
G: What a funny, funny scene.
C: Yeah.
G: And he goes- like, he's facing away from Dean, and then he goes, "Hello, Dean. What were you dreaming about?"
C: Hello.
G: And he turns his head as he says, like, “What were you dreaming about?” He turns his head towards Dean. And he is wearing that expression of again of like, amused. Like, it's fascinating. We see an array of Caspressions this episode, which is what I have used to say, Cas expression. It's literally Caspressions.
C: Real.
G: And, like, we see him be serious. We see him be like, forlorn, in a way. Like, sad for Dean. And here we see him like, quite amused. Like, "What were you dreaming about?" I like that.
C: Yeah. I mean, did he know it was Hell? [G laughing] Was he just like, "Oh, that's funny. I've been tortured for 200 years before."
G: Yeah. [laughing] "I, too, have been tortured and lobotomized." But yeah, Dean like, clocks that this looks pretty gay. [C laughs] And he says, like, “What you get your freak on watching other people sleep?" And-
C: Right, also Dean probably read Twilight like, 3 years earlier, and he was like, "I'm gonna stop this in its tracks." [G laughs]
G: Yeah, Cas turns serious and goes, "Listen to me. You have to stop it." Which is an interesting way to word this whole situation. Like, obviously, this is not what Dean is supposed to do at all.
C: Mm.
G: And yet, like, Cas says it like this. He's literally just lying.
C: I didn't really see "it" as being like, the deal. At first, when I thought his point was that, like, Dean needs to just go along with things, I thought like, "You have to stop it" just meant "You have to stop like, trying to have free will or whatever." And now, like, I think "it"- By the end, I figured out that "it" probably just means like, whatever Sam's getting up to.
G: Oh, yeah, that's interesting.
C: But he just does not explain what "it" is. So I think he is maybe trying to let Dean think differently.
G: Yeah. Like, he's saying here like, "You have to stop it." And probably, he is talking about Sam. You're right. And like, this whole excursion is like, him, instead of using his words just like, showing Dean, like, "This is what Sam is. This is what happened."
C: Yeah. This episode, we get they/them Sam rights, and we also get it/its neopronouns Sam rights, and I love that. Good for Sam.
G: Good for Sam. Also, like, I quite like that even though Sam is not in this episode, we actually get a lot of Sam lore!
C: Yeah.
G: Yeah. You know, small happinesses or whatever. Small joys, I think, is what people say. Small joys.
C: Yeah. Is this the first time Cas touches Dean?
G: I think so. I mean, if you're not going to count the handprint.
C: Oh, no, no, I'll count the handprint.
G: Yeah.
The handprint is very confusing to me, because, like, he was not a human being when he picked up Dean.
C: That's true.
G: Like, he wasn't possessing "some poor bastard," as Dean says. But he has-
C: I guess his true form could have, like-
G: A hand?
C: - human aspects to it. Like, I'm assuming there's a lot of animal heads and eyes, but like, some of the many arms could be like, human hands.
G: Yeah, like, this is the fathomable portion of his true self, or whatever.
C: Mm-hm.
G: Yeah, so Dean is like, "What?" And Cas puts up his finger on Dean's forehead. And Dean like, gets transported somewhere else!
C: Yup.
-
C: So he is in a new place. The coloring, the saturation is higher than it is in the motel, I think.
G: Yeah, I think specifically, they made the saturation in the motel so low. 'Cause like, I had to turn my brightness up so much. Like, the brightness was slow, saturation was low. I had to turn my brightness up so much. And it's like, it's fascinating that, like, my first thought when that happened was like, "Oh, we're back to like, Season 1 lighting?" And no, they just needed to do that to put some contrast with this part of the episode.
C: Yeah. Usually, I fucking hate when Supernatural changes its coloring or lighting or whatever when they're in a new state-
G: It's good here, though.
C: - But yeah, this is subtle enough, and it doesn't look like shit, like Purgatory. Though I still contend that Purgatory looks like shit so that no one can make AMVs of the gay moments that look good. I think it was an act of aggression against gay AMV makers.
G: Yeah, exactly.
C: But yeah, this looks fine. This looks good.
Dean wakes up on a bench, and you know, some dumb cop tells him to move, and he can't sleep here, and Dean goes "Sleep where?" And the cop says, “Anywhere but here.” Which is not true, he would kick Dean off of the next bench.
G: Yeah.
C: Yeah, and when Dean was transported, the leather jacket, as we mentioned, is still on his lap, and he lifts it up to show that he has John's journal and his phone there. But there is no cell signal. So he sighs and he gets up and he goes into a diner called Jay Bird's Diner, and the camera zooms in on an ad on the bench that's for sugar-free Tab, which I think is a discontinued soda brand so like, it's like, "Ooh, we're in the past!"
G: Oh, that's what it means. That's what it means. I had no idea why they were doing it. I was like, "What the fuck is this?" [laughs]
C: Right, like, did they get a sponsorship with Tab?
G: Yeah. So Dean enters the diner and immediately, like, there's a guy in focus. Just a guy. Just a guy. And the guy's like, handsome. Hate to admit it, love to see it. [C laughs] Yeah. And Dean like, sits beside this guy and, like, you know, he asks, like, "Where am I?" And the guy's like, "We're in a diner." And he's like, "No, no, no, no, like, city and state." And the guy says, “Lawrence, Kansas,” So baby, they're in Lawrence. And the guys like, [deepens voice] "He-ey. You okay, buddy?" Like, that's how he speaks. [C laughs]
C: Yeah. Exactly like that.
G: Is that offensive? Is that offensive? I am so sorry.
C: Oh, wait. Offensive how?
G: That is how he speaks, right?
C: I think so. I don't remember.
G: No, but he speaks with like, a certain twang. Like, he doesn't speak the way Dean speaks, I would say.
C: I have erased all memory of this man's voice from my mind. [G laughs]
G: Yeah. And Dean is like, trying to brush it off as like, "Oh, I'm having a hangover," whatever. And they ask for coffee. He asks where to get some signal. Like, he brings up his phone. And John like, looks at the phone and goes- well, the man, I suppose. [C laughs] We're still not sure it's John. Whatever. We've spoiled- like, you know what the fuck this episode is about. That's John. The guy's John. And he goes like, "Yeah, I mean the USS Enterprise?" Love that. I think this is our very first Star Trek reference in the show.
C: Oh, is that what it is?
G: Yeah.
C: Ohh, okay.
G: Why, what did you think it was?
C: Because when I googled "uss enterprise," the first thing that came up was like, an actual like-
G: Spaceship.
C: - aircraft carrier. No, it's like, a naval vessel that was part of the Vietnam War, and I was like, "Well, John's a filthy, filthy ex-Marine, so that's probably what he's referencing." But you're right. It's probably probably Star Trek because it's about how high-tech and futuristic Dean's phone was. But this is not our first Star Trek reference, because Dean in the last episode mentioned The Star Trek Experience as well as one of the things he wanted to go to before he-
G: Oh, yeah! This is interesting. Apparently, USS Enterprise has been like, a name for stuff prior. Like, this one is from 1958, history from 1960s to 1970s. Same goes for the other. Like, Star Trek happened in 1960-something, so they copied the name of the ship.
C: Yeah. Interesting
G: Or an aircraft- yeah.
C: But yeah, I do love this moment because John is talking like Dean. You know, like, that is how Dean would respond. He would be completely unhelpful and make a snarky pop culture reference.
G: Yeah!
C: So like, you know. That's where he gets it.
G: Yeah. Yeah. And then at some point like, the server comes up, and it's a guy, and he's wearing a very 70s outfit. And Dean comments about this. Like, he says, like, “Nice threads. You know Sonny and Cher broke up, right?" And then- [laughing] like, this is the most serious we see John in this episode. [C laughing] He goes [small, sad voice] "Sonny and Cher broke up?" [C laughs] And he shares a look with the guy, and it's a whole thing. I mean, I had to google this. I didn't know Sonny and Cher is like, a music duo/husband and wife, I think.
C: Yeah. They divorced in 1975. John is about to get his heart broken bits in 2 years.
G: Yeah. And then Dean is like, "What is going on?" So he starts looking around, and there's like, a headline. He sees that John is carrying a newspaper. He's reading a newspaper. And it's like, the headline is about Nixon, and the date is April 30th, 1973. Slay.
C: Yeah. So in 1973, Mary and John are both 19 years old. They are babies. They are tiny.
G: They are! But this is 19-year-old John? He looks like, 23. Like, they look like that, you know?
C: Oh, well, Billie Piper was 23 when she played Rose in Season 1 of new Doctor Who, who is a 19-year-old, so.
G: No, I think more what I'm trying to say is, like, people from older generations, because they dress that way, even if they're younger, they look older. Because, like, in our head, like, the clothes are- you know what I mean?
C: Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean.
G: Yeah, like, we associate the clothes with the era, with the generation. So therefore, like, if they wear those clothes, they'll look older, no matter what. I like that.
C: I'm also just very bothered by it not being November 2nd, or like, November 1st because, the Azazel deal happens tomorrow. Like, I thought that part of demon deals is that it's like, exactly 10 years, but he just meant like, 10 years-ish. Like, 10 years, and also like, 6 months.
G: Yeah, that's true. It should have been November.
C: Yeah. Sad!
G: Yeah. And then somebody enters the diner and goes, "Hey, Winchester!" And Dean looks over. obviously. And then the guy like, goes over him towards John and shakes John's hand,
and Dean like, turns around, like, "What?" The guy comes over and is like, "How are you doing, corporal?" And like, the- the John. [laughs] John is like talking to this guy, and the guy namedrops that, you know, "Good to have home, John." Blah blah blah. And Dean looks at him and goes, "Dad?" [C laughs] And the guy who John is talking to says, "Say hello to your old man for me." Which is an interesting line. Because I thought-
C: Oh, yeah. Isn't Henry Winchester missing? [laughs]
G: Yeah. "Say hello to your missing, probably dead dad for me." [C laughs] Love Henry Winchester as well, by the way.
C: I don't know much about him, but I've heard him described as a DILF.
G: Season 8. He is a DILF! That's my only comment.
C: Speaking of dilves, why does this man look nothing like JDM?
G: Who? Current guy?
C: The young John actor just doesn't look like JDM. Which is fine.
G: I think his name's Matt. Like, Matt something.
C: I'm going to look up young Jeffrey Dean Morgan. Maybe he just aged very weird.
G: Young- oh, the last time we looked up young Jeffrey Dean Morgan- [laughing]
C: Oh. You started moaning and whimpering? [G laughing]
G: Yeah. So I'm not going to do that.
C: He doesn't look that much like the young John-
G: Matt Cohen?
C: But he also doesn't look that much like himself. He mostly looks like Elvis. So.
G: Yeah. Yeah! I think it's- this is fascinating because Matt Cohen- let's look up Matt Cohen. He is in Supernatural for so little.
C: Mm.
G: He was in, I think, 4 episodes.
C: In 3 episodes. "In the Beginning," "The Song Remains the Same," and "Baby," it says.
G: Yeah, he was in "Baby." Love that scene, actually. But like, he was in 3 episodes, he directed 1 episode, and yet [laughs] this guy is in the Supernatural fucking con circuit. [C laughs] And I remember thinking at some point like, "Damn. Like, you can literally milk the shit out of anything in this show." Like, you're in one episode of this show. If you're beloved enough by the fandom, you can literally milk the shit out of like, the con circuit.
C: Yeah.
G: I respect that. I respect that.
C: I don't [G laughs], but I support him.
G: I support him. He was literally in 3 episodes. To be fair, he has a significant role. Like, John Winchester is a significant character, and he played a significant character. And also, "Baby" is pretty cool. Like, his scene, in "Baby" is pretty cool. So I forgive him.
So the man walks away, and John is trying to drink his coffee and read his newspaper, but, like, he can't stop not noticing Dean, who is just staring at him, mouth agape. And he finally turns to Dean and goes, "Do we know each other?" And Dean just goes, "I guess not." And John is like, "Okay," and he stands up and goes, "Take it easy, pal." And I love that. I love the word "pal." I love it. And then we get the title card.
-
C: So Dean walks out of the diner, and, you know, he turns a corner, and who's there? Who's there? Who's there? The hottest person alive? Hello? Castiel? Him? He's there
G: He is there.
C: Yeah, and we haven't mentioned yet that much how fun it is the way that angels appear and disappear in Supernatural.
G: Yeah! It's like a sleight-of-hand situation.
C: They never show them fucking Powerpoint transition disappearing into the air.
G: They should, though. [C laughs] Like, I want to see Cas go from a completely- this joke is ruined because I forgot the word.
C: Solid?
G: What do you call the opposite of transparent?
C: Opaque?
G: Okay, like- We should, though we should see Cas go from completely opaque to translucent to transparent. I would love to see it.
C: Yeah. Yeah. They should do it in pieces so that we see his skeletal system.
G: [laughing] Yeah! They should remove his clothes first, and-
C: No!
G: No. But like, I would love to see Cas's muscular system.
C: The thing about Cas is that he's not hot without the trench coat.
G: Yeah, that's true.
C: Is this a controversial take?
G: He has to be like-
C: The trenchcoat stays on in bed.
G: Exactly. He takes off everything, and then he puts the trenchcoat on.
C: Exactly.
G: Yeah.
C: Anyway, so yeah, it's a sleight-of-hand situation. It's always that like, the camera's away, and then it's swivels over, and then either like, an angel has appeared or disappeared. And it looks really cool.
G: It just reminds me of this- one time I went to a birthday party when I was really young, and one of the trick was like, the clown was saying that, like, "I'm gonna turn this spoon- I'm going to bend this spoon without touching it." And then, like, he has a clown buddy. Like, he has an assistant. And the clown assistant like, goes up to his ear and goes like, whispers something, and then he goes, "Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ladies and gentlemen, we have our- a special guest arriving right now!" And then he points towards the entrance of the venue, which is like, at the back of the room. So you go look at it, and then, the moment you look forward he's like, "I guess our special guest is delayed. Anyway! The spoon has been bent." [both laughing]
C: Oh my god, that's so low-effort!
G: [laughing] This is a core memory for me.
C: Oh my god, this is so unrelated, I don't know why I'm bringing this up. You can put it in an outtake or something. But like, when you talk about magic tricks, the main thing that I remember is like, at, like, my high school senior, like, going away fest, like, they hired a hypnotist, and they like, got like, our class president as a volunteer, and he was hypnotizing him. And he was like, "Oh, like, imagine a girl like, a beautiful girl, and like, you're getting married," and like, this guy like, half-hypnotized mumbles, "I'm gay." [both laughing] Like, it's-
G: [laughing] He literally is gay. He literally is gay.
C: Yeah. And then the magician goes, "Oh, well, even gay people can be lonely." Like- [both laughing] They hired this man! For high school senior going away thing. Anyway, that's the core memory for me. [G laughing]
G: Literally, even gay people can be lonely! [C laughs] What even is going on?
C: Anyway, so Dean is, you know, very intense, very in his emotions, asking like, "What is this?" And Cas just asks, "What does it look like?" And Dean asks, "Is it real?" And Cas says, "Very." I love that! It is very! And Dean asks about how this happens, and Cas says, “Wibbly wobbly timey wimey,” but he actually says-
G: [laughing] He says! [laughing]
C: What?
G: When I heard this, he said, "Time is fluid, Dean. It's not easy, but we can bend it on occasion." Like, my first thought is, "This is what the Warner Brothers guys [C screams] said to Misha Collins when-" [both laughing]
C: Fuck!
C: He literally did, though.
C: Sexuality is fluid, Misha. It's not easy, but we can bend it on occasion.
G: Literally!
C: God, this news fucking [laughing] is ruining our podcast.
G: Yeah, this podcast is not gonna age well at all.
C: Yeah. [laughing] One year later when he comes out as bi for real.
G: Yeah! You know.
C: God, I fucking hope not. Anyway.
Yeah. And Dean, as Misha Collins says, “Well, bend it back.”
G: Literally. Bend it back.
C: Yeah. And Cas says that he's here to "stop it." and Dean says, “Stop what? Is there something like, coming after my dad?” And then there's like, a car horn so he turns around, and then Cas disappears.
G: Bye, Cas.
C: Dean yells something about like, "Are you allergic to straight answers, you son of a bitch?" blah blah blah.
G: [laughing] He's allergic to straight answers for real.
C: Straight. Yeah. And I do really like that a lot of the angels we meet do something similar to this in that, you know, Gabriel had his "Mystery Spot" and "Changing Channels" episodes, and Zachariah had his Endverse, and, like- what's it called? "It's a Terrible Life"? - episodes. Like, each angel has some form of reality bending power that they use to teach Sam and Dean lessons. But, like, they're like, specific to the personalities of the angels. And I wonder what Cas's thing just being time travel means. Like, is it about him not having that much of an imagination right now, or having a commitment to the truth, or like, believing that Dean should like, learn his own lessons with like, just what happened, instead of like, actually manipulating like, things and making AUs and shit? Like, what does it mean?
G: It could be because he's lower down the order of angels.
C: Oh, yeah, that's true.
G: And, like, you like, you can't really create a new reality, because, you know.
C: Yeah. God, I love how Cas is not even high-ranking in any way.
G: Yeah!
C: And he's still shown to be the coolest motherfucker ever in the beginning of season 4.
G: He's just some angel.
-
G: We're at Rainbow Motors Car Dealership now. Love that.
C: Gay as hell. Fellas, is it gay to buy a car from Rainbow Motors?
G: Yeah. And there's a salesman, and he is selling John a van.
C: Yes. It's beautiful. The show was made worse by them not driving around in this car.
G: They need to be in a van. Dean like, shows up. He's leaning up against a car-
C: I think we need to describe what this van looks like, because I feel like, "van" doesn't describe it well enough. It is [both] beige. It is a Volkswagen. And it is shaped like-
G: A fridge.
C: Like, it has like, a square face, maybe a rectangle face, like, tall way rectangle face. And then, like, probably like, front seat, and then 2 rows after it, probably. But it's also not very big. It just looks like a cube that was slightly stretched and beige.
G: It literally does look like a fridge, though. Like, it looks like, one of those fridges that are like, you know what I mean? Like, "oh, a cute fridge," like, for your skincare and stuff? You know people do that?
C: They do what?
G: They put like, a fridge in their room, and it's for skincare.
C: I own one bottle of acne wash and 2 bottles of expired acne wash [G laughs] because I didn't use enough of them before the expiration date.
G: I am the type of person where, if my skincare is expired, I go, "God take the wheel," and then I put it on my face. I'm pretty sure all my skincare is expired
C: Real and correct.
G: Love that. Love that. I don't even use moisturizer on my face anymore. I use body lotion my face. Life is a fuck.
C: You own body lotion? That is different from my life.
G: I have psoriasis!
C: That's a good point. Is that called body lotion even if it's like- I assumed it was like, medical grade something something.
G: No, no, no. I just use unscented body lotion.
C: Oh, okay.
G: Yeah. And Dean is like, [annoying voice] "That's not the one you wanttt." That's not the voice he puts on, but, like, it could have been. It could have been.
C: He is splayed out across the hood of the Impala like a Playboy magazine model.
G: Yeah. At this point, the Chevy Impala is already old. It's almost a decade old already.
C: I mean, if we're rounding 6 up to 10, sure.
G: No, but like, it is, though. Like, at some point, like, is it like, 5 years? The cutoff. Like, after 5 years, you should probably change your car. That's what people say.
C: What? Five?
G: That's what people say. We don't follow that. We bought a secondhand car.
C: Who says that? Does anyone say that? Five years?
G: I think, like, in Japan, they say that. Like, that's what my mom told me.
C: Okay. I was about- When you said that "In Japan, they say that," I was like, "Did you get this from Yakuza or from Ace Attorney?" [G laughs/screams]
G: I'm trying to look. I'm trying to look. But [laughs] that is such a funny thing to say. My mom told me that. And like, you know how there's a lot of Japanese, like, what do you call it? Like, they just sell you stuff? What do you call that?
C: Salespeople?
G: Dollar store?
C: Oh, like Daiso? Like Daiso?
G: No, not Daiso. Big ones. Like, they sell you fridges and stuff.
C: Like, a department store, or- like Sears? What is Sears?
G: No, it's like a- I think it's like secondhand shop, but it's like, appliances.
C: Okay. Oh, interesting.
G: Or like, you know, like, plates, stuff like that. And like, I asked my mom once like, "Why is it that there are so many shops that are like, 'Oh, these all of these stuff are from Japan,' and it's like, almost new." Like, there's a stovetop, and it's almost new and it's from Japan or whatever. And my mom said like, "Oh, people in Japan just like, get rid of things after 5 years." [laughs] So that's where I got that from. Maybe she was lying to me.
C: Okay, I hope we're not perpetuating stereotypes about Japanese people in Busty Asian Beauties, the podcast. [both laughing]
G: No, no- are there- I mean, obviously there's not many stores like that in the United States, but there's a lot in the Philippines.
C: As far as I remember, I haven't encountered them.
G: Like, the joke is like, the Philippines is where, you know, people dispose their shit. So like, yeah. I don't know. Is 5 years old for a car?
C: I don't think so. Like, we still have a car that is as old as I am.
G: Yeah, and I'm pretty sure the car that is as old as I am or older than me, even though it's not with our family anymore, is still running. So like, I don't think it's that old. But like, 40 years. That's old for a car, right?
C: 40? Yeah, I think so. At some point, the owner dies.
G: Yeah. [laughs] Like, if the owner died inside the car, like, that old. Yeah.
C: Yeah.
G: And you know what? No, John did not die inside the Impala. I was gonna say some convoluted reason, some convoluted way-
C: Dean was supposed to die inside the Impala.
G: Yeah. He was meant to die inside the Impala but he didn't-
C: Which is very sad.
G: And John didn't die inside the Impala.
C: Which is very sad.
G: Has anyone died inside the Impala? Mary. [laughs]
C: Did she?
G: [laughing] I mean, you said she died, and she drove off into the ether, and then like, she comes back alive or whatever.
C: Oh, Mary in the fucking Winchesters. I think she never actually died. They just assumed that she was gonna die. But then she comes out like, passed out in the back seat, and Dean carries her out, or some shit. I don't know.
G: Love that. Love that. [laughing] I'm still laughing at "Where did you learn that? Ace Attorney or Yakuza?" [both laugh] God. Yeah.
Anyway, Dean says like, “Oh. I'm not following you or anything, but I didn't thank you for the coffee this morning, so I'm gonna repay the favor.” And then he opens up the Impala, and then he starts telling John like, "This has blahblah horsepower and blahblah-" well, he doesn't say horsepower. He says “horses,” which is funny to me.
C: Horses.
G: And then like, barrels and stuff? I don't fucking know anything about cars.
C: Yeah.
G: And then John literally just goes, "You know, man, you're right." Which is like, so wild. Like, his heart was not in that van at all if, like, a random, weird guy who is following him shows up and is like, "Hey, you should buy this other car," and he's like, "Yeah, I bet."
C: Well, doesn't he say later that he's only buying the van because he promised Mary he would buy the van?
G: No, yeah. But like, still! You should commit.
C: Okay, also, did you notice the deleted scene in the transcript, where, after John drives the car over, the deleted scene is just that after Mary sees the Impala, she says, “I hate it.” Like, they just cut that line out. [both laughing]
G: And she does hate it!
C: But she's fucked that car
G: She's fucked in that car? That's true.
C: She has fucked that car.
G: What do you mean?
C: As in, when she comes back to life, doesn't she like, greet the car like, "Hey, Baby," in a way where it's like, "Oh, she's fucked that car."
G: Well, she fucked in the car for sure, so I'm just going off of that.
C: Yes. And she also stuck her strap-on into the exhaust pipes.
G: [laughs] Yeah, maybe perhaps. That scene is so funny. Anyway, let's talk about future seasons in future episodes.
C: Yeah, okay.
G: They introduce themselves. And John, you know, says he's John Winchester and Dean obviously can't say he's Dean Winchester, so he says he's Dean Van Halen. He's so funny.
C: Stupidass.
G: Also, like, I looked up, and apparently Van Halen was formed in 1973. But like, they didn't become famous until after. So, like, this is fine.
C: Oh, okay. That's fine then. Yeah.
G: Yeah. Dean starts sniffing out the case. He's like, "Oh, I was a bit hung over. But like, I was getting the chills. Like, did you get any cold spots?" And John, like, completely unaware, just keeps on going like, "No," "no," about everything. Like, at some point, Dean is like, "Did you happen to smell any sulfur?" Do you think, Crystal, that if you smelled sulfur, you'd know exactly what it smells like?
C: Well, it's supposed to smell like rotten eggs. I feel like I know what rotten eggs smell like.
G: You've smelled a rotten egg?
C: It's more likely that I've smelled sulfur than a rotten egg. Like, in a science experiment.
G: Yeah. But like, you recognize that immediately?
C: I think so.
G: Okay, good for you, then. [C laughing] Fucking-
C: Nerd.
G: - non-binary ass looking person in STEM. [C laughing]
G: Okay. [laughs] At some point, Dean asks for cattle mutilations, and John just goes, "Dude. What the fuck?"
C: He says, “Okay, mister, stop it.” I love that.
G: "Okay, mister."
C: Does he think Dean's older than him? Dean is older than him. How old is Dean at this point? Dean was 26 in the first season-
G: 29. 29.
C: Oh my god. Dean's 10 years older than John right now!
G: And he doesn't look like it. I mean, I guess it's because of the whole like-
C: Drop the skincare routine.
G: No, because we know. Like, we know. So that's why. But he literally is 29! And I've been saying this. I have been saying this, and other people have been saying this, there's an AMV for it and everything. But he literally met Cas when he was 29! It makes it so so so so emo. Because of that fucking one song-
C: Oh, the post that's like, "If you're worried about not finding love early, remember that Dean and Cas met when Dean was 29 and Cas was a 1 billion or some shit"?
G: No, literally, though. Like, he met Cas at 29.
C: Yeah.
G: I- like, one time, I was talking to a friend, and I literally brought this up. Like, she was telling me that, like, "I'm so afraid like, when you're young, like, love is different, and like, it's just difficult to love someone you didn't grow up with." And I was like, "Girl. [laughing] Dean and Cas [both laughing] met when Dean was 29." [both laughing/screaming]
C: And she immediately felt better forever and never had an insecurity again?
G: Yeah, it worked.
C: Nice.
G: Destiel therapy works.
Dean like, just goes like, "Oh, okay, fine, I'll stop. Watch out for yourself, okay?" And John's like, "Okay." And despite all this, despite all the weirdness that Dean just exhibited, the car salesperson goes up and goes, "So?" And John goes, "I'll take this car."
C: Yeah, like, "Watch out for yourself, okay?" makes it seem like Dean is like, sent to assassinate him and there is a bomb in this car.
G: Yeah! [laughs] And he still took it!
C: He still took it.
G: Yeah.
-
C: So we cut to outside the Campbells' house. It's like, a nice house. It's got white walls, and, I don't know. It's fun. And he drives up in an Impala, and then we see Mary!
G: Hi, Mary!
C: It's Mary. She looks so good. She has like, wavy hair, and she's wearing this like-
G: Do you think she's wearing a wig?
C: Oh, like, the actress?
G: Yeah.
C: I can't tell.
G: Sorry for cutting you off.
C: Don't worry. I can't tell. Do you think she's wearing a wig?
G: I don't know. I think every blonde person is wearing a wig ever. [both laugh] I don't think I've ever seen genuine like, born blonde-type blonde hair in my life.
C: Yeah. That makes sense.
G: So like, whenever I see it on TV, I'm like, "Hm. Is that what it looks like?" Yeah. [C laughs]
C: Yeah. I think it's not a wig.
G: Yeah, but she looks like a Barbie doll. So I was like, "Is that- is the hair synthetic?" I would love it if it is. I mean, isn't wearing wigs a thing in like, television and movies and stuff? Or is that just in movies?
C: Yeah, there are a lot of wigs in movies, at least. And there's one very important wig from Party City in Supernatural. [G laughs]
G: No, I think what I'm thinking about this is perhaps because Mary's hair is so 70s, and like, maybe during the 70s, there was more wigs in movies. You know what I mean? So like, the the look has associated with wigs to me or whatever.
C: Huh, okay.
G: Whatever. But like, every time I look at her, I'm like, "Her hair is so beautiful. Is it synthetic? Would love to know. Would love to have that hair." And also, her eyelashes are so, so, so long! I know she's wearing mascara, but still.
C: Yeah. Her eyes are huge, her eyelashes are long. Yeah.
G: Her brows are normal.
C: Her brows are normal, which is the most important part of it. And I love her outfit. Like, she's wearing like, a white cowboy shirt sort of thing. There's like-
G: Sam has worn something similar to this. Remember?
C: Yeah, like, earlier in Season 4, or-?
G: I don't know. Maybe like, maybe he wears it in the future, but he wears like, something that looks kind of like this. And I love it.
C: Yeah. And there's like, roses ironed onto the shoulders, and like, she's in jeans, and she's wearing this like, braided leather belt, and she just looks so good! I love her fit. She like, comes out of the house and runs over and sees the Impala, and she's like, "What's this?" So she asks John like, "Hey, what the fuck is this like? Like, why isn't this the van?" And John starts going like, "Mary, this is better than the van! This has got a 327 and a four-barrel carburetor-" I, for all I know, he's making up words, but he probably isn't. Like, his mom is a mechanic, so I guess he knows shit.
G: And he is a mechanic from a family of mechanics, as he says later.
C: That is true. And Dean goes, "Mom?"
G: Ooh.
C: And he decides to continue spying on them into their date. They're at a diner. They're drinking milkshakes. Mary is a strawberry girl, so true. And we get, you know, a lovely, lovely line. [laughs] I just think that Jeremy Carver is obsessed with incest. Where Dean, watching through the window, goes, "Sammy, wherever you are, Mom is a babe. I'm going to Hell. Again."
G: Again.
C: Put him back in the- Put him back in the ground. Like, not enough people are saying this, [G laughs] but we just need to- like, for 50 cents, you can help put another Dean Winchester back in the ground.
G: Yeah.
C: It's very unfunny, and "I'm going to Hell," and then the "again," like, Jeremy Carver's working way too hard to hammer the joke home. It's not working for me.
Alright. So we cut inside the diner, and they're talking about how Mary's dad doesn't approve of John. Apparently, they've been dating for years, and it's still a problem. Mary says that he's just protective, and John goes like, "Oh, does he have a problem with you hooking up with a mechanic from a family of mechanics?" What is the Campbells' like, cover job? Like, are they going around telling everyone they're like, the CEO of PepsiCo? Like, they don't have jobs, do they? Besides hunting? Or do they?
G: Why is this the issue? I don't know.
C: I don't know. And then Mary goes like, "No, I love you for exactly what you are." Which John echoes later in the episode, right?
G: Yeah. It's so corny. But like, I understand, they're young, whatever.
C: Yeah. I still read Mary as aromantic, or I find that the most interesting reading of Mary. So her saying corny shit that doesn't seem to make any- doesn't seem to have any real sentiment behind it feels right. And she goes like, "Okay, wait. I'll be right back." And she heads out somewhere, and then John pulls out like, a little ring box from inside his jacket. But he wasn't planning to propose at this dinner thing, because he didn't, so I don't know why he has it on him now.
G: Well, I mean, I think that's reasonable. Like, you get a ring, you bring it everywhere.
C: Yeah, I guess fanfiction has had that happen before. [G laughs]
G: Which is your only basis for romance.
C: Yes.
G: That's such a mean thing to say, I'm so sorry! I am so sorry.
C: Don't worry. [laughs] I did not read it as a personal slight, just like, a general thing you would say.
G: Literally an observation.
C: 19 is so early to get engaged, says the guy who got engaged at 21. [laughs] But anyway.
G: Yeah! You know, recently, Crystal asked me- [both laughing]
C: Offered.
G: Offered marriage.
C: For a visa. But now that we're saying this on a podcast, we can never do it, because the government will know that it's fake. So there goes that chance.
G: It literally is for the visa, though, is the thing. But, you know, technically, I am also Crystal's ex-fiance. So that's great.
C: Good point. I offered it, and you were like, "Huh, maybe," and then in this moment, we made it impossible. So good job, you did it.
G: Yeah.
So outside the diner, Dean is still, you know, watching in, and is like, "What's happening?" And then Mary shows up behind Dean and starts attacking the shit out of him. It's- I like Mary's wiping style.
C: Yeah.
G: Because it's like, it's obvious that, like, she wasn't taught self-defense. She was taught how to attack. But also specifically, she was taught how to attack a man. And I like that. She kicks him in the dick-
C: In the crotch, yeah.
G: Yeah, and, I don't know. I like her stance and everything. This is all unrelated to what I said earlier, but like, I don't know. The way she holds her hands up, I was like, "Yeah, that's realistic, I think." I've never been in a fight, but like, I've tried to go do kickboxing in my life. And it's like, yeah, love that for her. She points out that this guy, Dean - love that. "This guy." - She points out that Dean has been following them since, like, her house, and Dean's like, "I don't know what you're talking about!" And Mary's like, still trying to attack him when Dean grabs her and like, pins her against the wall, and he goes like, "Let's talk about this," and Mary is like, "No, no, no!" And then Dean sees the bracelet. And the bracelet is, like, one of those bracelets that you see on Etsy-
C: Yeah, it's a charm bracelet.
G: - that's like "Supernatural Charm Bracelet." And you literally- I don't know why I said it like that, but you literally do see this on Etsy. If look up "Supernatural-" like, I don't know. "spn blah blah blah" on Etsy, this is what will show up. And Dean sees this and like, slowly takes his hand off her and goes-
C: Oh, to clarify, like, there are charms on it that are like, anti-possession, like, blah blah blah.
G: [laughing] No, it's not like, a Cas charm or whatever. [both laugh]
C: And this is such a good reveal! Because we didn't know, and John doesn't know either, right?
G: Yeah! Like, it's the fact that it's unknown to like, everyone at all. And, do you think like, John figured out at some point?
C: No.
G: He should have, right?
C: He should have, but I don't think he did. I mean, I'm confused about how she explained her dad's corpse right next to him after her dad tried to kill him [G laughs] at the end of this episode, but, like, I feel like she explained it. Because John didn't know about hunting until Mary died, right?
G: Yeah, but like, he was talking to everyone related to Mary, you know.
C: After she died.
G: Yeah, but somebody's gotta give, right?
C: Eh, I mean, if all of them are distrustful, I don't think somebody had to.
G: That's true.
C: And I don't think he's that close with Mary's family, anyway. It's not like any of them offered to take Sam and Dean in. Or like, Sam and Dean didn't really seem to have extended family on Mary's side that they knew.
G: That's true.
C: Yeah. And I just love that like, we don't even learn this from Ruby when she was doing all her background research on Mary.
G: Yeah, when she was like, "Sam, do this, do that, do this, do that." We don't find it out from there. It really is just you have to go back to the past.
C: Yeah. And also, like, all of Mary's friends and family were killed by demons after she died as a cover-up. So there was no way for them to know.
G: Yeah, but it's kind of unknown whether like, those deaths are recent or whatever.
C: Oh, that's true. That's true. They were like, in like, 2004-type shit. You're right.
G: Yeah.
C: So they could have known. But they didn't know. And I feel like this is the first part of the breaking down the Mary mythology, as like, you know, "innocent, pure, civilian, didn't know anything, and was just the victim of this demon for no reason." And it's so fun! I love it. I love it, and they've been building up to it for multiple seasons now, and it's great. God fucking bless.
-
C: We go back to John, Mary, husband and wife, bringing home a brand new car.
G: Yeah.
C: His name is Baby, and I'm big brother Dean. But anyway [both laugh]- but, right, so he takes her home after the date. And, you know, they kiss. And Dean is standing behind a tree, so apparently, he and Mary have arranged to meet up after the date. Dean does some corny shit where he's like, "You can trust me because we're all hunters. So like, we're practically [both] family."
G: So fucking corny.
C: Yeah. And Mary is like, "Oh, my dad will probably not love this," and Dean's like, “Oh my god, I haave to meet him," because I guess he probably knew as a child that his grandparents were dead, so this would have been his only chance. And she takes him inside, and you know, Samuel's- like, he gives him a quiz about how to kill a vampire to make sure he's a hunter, but then he says that he doesn't trust other hunters, so he still wants Dean to fuck off. But then, Deanna, who is his wife, Dean's grandmother, etc., is like, "Oh, stop being so mean. I'm gonna invite him to join us for dinner." And this is when Deanna reveals that her name is Deanna and her husband's name is Samuel. And Dean is surprised at this, which means that he did not know who he and Sam were named after.
Does he think it's corny? Is that what the "really?" is about.
G: No, I don't think he's- well, I don't think it's corny, but I don't know what he thinks.
C: Mm. I think it's corny because it was clearly written for this episode. Like, Jeremy Carver was like, "Oh, I don't know what Mary's parents should be named." And then he stared at a sheet of paper, and then slowly wrote down "Sam" and "Dean." And then he added several letters to the end of both of those words.
-
G: So they sit down for dinner. And this scene, I find so interesting. I mean, I'll probably put this at the end, whatever. But like, in Pentiment, which is a game that I love, there is a portion where you can choose who to have lunch and dinner with, and then you eat with them. And like, eating with them, based on what you're eating and the conversations you're having during the meal, you can find out things about who these people are, and like, about the case that you're trying to solve.
C: Yeah.
G: And like, I tried to observe this scene from that perspective. I didn't really get a good block of what they were eating. I think it's just like, mashed potatoes or whatever the fuck.
C: I think there was salad there also?
G: Yeah. But I think what I paid most close attention to is the body language.
C: Mm. You're a body language expert?
G: Is that a reference to anything?
C: I think there's just people who call themselves body language experts who are really annoying on the internet, that's it. [both laugh]
G: Yeah. And I am really annoying on the internet, so it fits.
Samuel is like, turned away for like, a big part of the meal. He is sitting- like, he's turned to the side, and I thought that was so interesting. And like, he only turns to Dean, really, when they start talking about like, his case, and Dean is like, "Oh, we kind of have the same case, I think." I thought it was interesting also- like, in Pentiment, I happened to have one meal with a family where the dad is so fucking annoying, and everyone in his family is like, so grueled by this, and, like, it reminded me of this. And it's like, I think it's so fascinating sometimes, you know how like, the dad is the head of the table and also controls where the conversation is and how the conversation goes. I don't really have a comment to make other than, you know, it's a thing that happens. But, like, I think it's so interesting, especially when I see it in media. Because I don't really experience that that much, but like, it's so dominant, especially in American media, I feel, where the dad is the one who is doing the talking and blah blah blah blah.
So Deanna starts asking questions about like, if Dean is from Lawrence, and Dean says like, “It's been a while, things sure have changed. I think.” Which, you know, if you get transported back through time, I feel like, try to be more [C laughs]- like, he keeps on trying to make these jokes that are like, only for him. And it's like, "Dude, shut the fuck up." Just talk normally.
And then they start- like, Samuel starts asking if he's working a job, and he's like, "I don't trust other hunters, either, you know," and Mary asks why Dean was following John and her, and he says that he thought John was in danger but now he doesn't think so. And Deanna starts making comments about John being like, "Oh, John, like, getting involved with the supernatural? What a funny concept!" And then Samuel makes a face, and Mary is like, "I saw that." And John, this is when we learn- well, we learned earlier. But this is when we see that Samuel doesn't really like John. Like, he thinks John is like, too naive. And Mary says a funny line. Like, she says. “So what? You'd rather me with a guy like this?" to Dean with such obvious distaste, and like, "eugh!" Like, "You want me to be with a guy like this?" And Dean is like, [hurt] "What? What? What?" like, he's so fucking annoying. [laughing] Samuel said, "Of course not." [both laughing] I was laughing my ass off. Literally "You want me to be with a guy like Dean?" "Of course not."
C: Yeah. I'm so glad we finally had a woman on Supernatural that doesn't think Dean is so hot. And she's only allowed to do that because she is his mother.
G: Literally.
C: But at least we got there eventually.
G: We got there eventually. And Dean asks Samuel if he is working a job, and they start talking about this one farm, and then they figure out that it's demonic omens is what's happening. Dean says that “This sounds like the exact same thing I'm hunting. So if we go together, we can take this out quick." And Samuel turns this down in a "I don't work with people. Don't you understand that?"
C: Yeah. Also, like, I feel like, we don't learn that much about Deanna in this episode-
G: We really don't.
C: But she does chime in when they're talking about the case where she talks about like, electrical storms being part of the omens, and how they've ordered like, graphs from the weather service. So I think it can be implied that she is like, more on the research end. Like, she's still involved in cases, but not in like, direct field work.
G: She's like the Bobby of the family.
C: Yeah.
-
C: We cut to the farm, the Whitshire farm, which is where the case is. And Mary and Samuel are outside of the truck, and Samuel's in a priest outfit. Mary is not really dressed for combat. She's like, in a dress and cowboy boots, but like, she looks great.
G: Should have been a nun. [C laughs] That's my hot take. Put her in a-
C: Habit?
G: What do you call it? Habit.
C: A wimple?
G: Literally.
C: Mary's like, "I don't really want to be here," but Samuel is like, "This is the family business," and asks if she'd rather be waving palms at a bunch of dumb jocks, which means, I guess that's college, right? That's what he thinks she would do in college? Be a cheerleader?
G: He literally was like, "Would you rather have extracurricular activities?" [C laughs] And I literally do not rather have extracurricular activities. So right.
C: Yeah. I wonder if Mary wanted to go to college. Like, she is quite Sam-coded in this episode at points, and I wonder if wanting to go to college is part of that at all.
G: Yeah. "I want to get out."
C: So Mary goes off to interview the victim's son, who's leaning by a tree, whereas Samuel goes over to the house. And after he knocks on the door, Dean opens it, and he is also in a priest outfit.
G: Yas!
C: Where did Dean get this outfit?
G: Yeah, literally, he doesn't have a car-
C: Fucking murdered a priest? [G laughs]
G: He doesn't have a car. He doesn't know this town. Where the fuck did he-
C: He has a car later. I assume he stole a car.
G: Oh, yeah, that makes sense.
C: But yeah, he got a priest outfit, and he's there, and, you know, Samuel's surprised, and Dean's like, "Oh, wow! What a coincidence! Hello! Here's my associate who's fucking old. He's so fucking old."
G: He says, “This is our senior senior priest.” [both laugh] He's so funny.
C: Yeah. And so he's been interviewing the victim's wife. And Samuel asks a few questions and hands her like-
G: Cake.
C: Some food. I can't tell what it is. Cake. Yeah. Do you like, he had to bake that himself?
G: I would assume not. 'Cause it's in- it's covered by like, plastic, or whatever
C: Which implies that he made it himself, because it's not in like, a ready-made like, box, right?
G: Actually have no idea. Because it's on a platter. It's covered by, like, plastic, like, what what is that? C: Yeah, saran wrap?
G: But it's not covered by saran wrap. It's covered by a plastic.
C: Oh, is it? Okay. Okay. Then, yeah, I don't know. I'll assume he bought it then.
And Samuel asks the wife a bit, but, you know, she's just upset that her husband died, and she doesn't have any information to give. So Dean is just like, "Okay, I'm gonna head out." So he goes over to talk to Mary and the son, and Mary notices Dean, and is like, "Okay, cool. Charlie, do you want to tell the father here what you just told me?" And what we learn is that Mr. Whitshire, when he got drunk, he would hit Charlie's mom. And a stranger came over recently, a week ago, and asked Charlie if he wanted the beatings to stop, and he just said like, "Yes." And now his dad is dead.
G: Yeah.
C: And Dean asked if the stranger wanted anything. And Charlie just says, like, “Okay, he said that like, about 10 years from now, he said he'd like, come over for a favor and want something then. But I just thought like, he was crazy and wasn't actually saying anything real." Okay, in this case, and also in the case of Mary's friend- Well, maybe not. Okay, in this case, I don't think a kiss happened, right?
G: Yeah.
C: Like, it seems like Charlie would not kiss a guy that he thought was crazy. Like, it seems like he had no clue that a real transaction happened. What are the rules here? Is it that Charlie's a kid,and they don't do demon kisses for kids?
G: I have no idea.
C: Yeah, 'cause the reason I'm so stuck on this kiss thing is that Jeremy Carver thought it was necessary to have the Mary/Samuel!Azazel kiss, you know. And it's like, "Okay, if you have to show that, then like, why skip the Johnzazel kiss, or why skip like, Bela as a little child kiss, or like, have Charlie probably clearly not kissing this guy?" Like, I think that all of these are things that don't need a kiss, but, like, you kept some of them.
So Mary and Dean discuss it in private a little, and they're like, "Yeah, demon deal." And then Mary asks Charlie what this guy looks like, and he says he was "about 5’10, white and normal-looking." And I like, that, he said white because I feel like they don't say "white" when they ask people about descriptions in Supernatural most of the time. They're sort of operating off of the idea that it's the default. So I'm glad that he said it. But I feel like maybe the reason Jeremy Carver put it in was he was like, "Oh, they don't say the race in present-day because we're like, in an enlightened, post-race society, but in 1973, they do see color." [G laughs]
G: [laughing] I don't think- [laughs]
C: But I don't know Jeremy Carver's head. I don't know his life. But that is sort of what I assumed was going on here. But I think everyone should say "white" when there's a white guy.
Mary asks if there's anything else, and Charlie is like, "Well, there was one thing. When the light hit his eyes in a weird way, they looked..." And Dean goes, "Oh, were they black or red?" And Charlie says, “No, [both] they were yellow!" [G screams]
G: I was so ecstatic. Like, I mean, obviously, I knew that this is where the episode is going. But like, I don't know. The way they did the whole like, reveal of like, it's Yellow-Eyes, I thought it was so cool, and I was so ecstatic when the reveal happened. Because, like, "Okay, the episode's picking up!" Like, "Dean is about to go ball to the wall crazy!" Because it's Yellow-Eyes. Like, he's literally here. And like, the anticipation of, like, Dean doesn't even know where this is going. Like, he thinks he does. He thinks this is all a ploy to get him and Sam out of the life, and, like, I don't know, like, maybe stopping this will stop the apocalypse also. He doesn't know that this is just a lesson to be learned, and he can't do anything, and like, he will try so hard and nothing will happen, and in a way that trying will result in Mary dying.
C: Yup.
G: Because if he didn't figure out- if he didn't tell-
C: Yeah, if he didn't know where the next place the demon was gonna hit, then Mary wouldn't have gone there, and she wouldn't have caught the attention of Yellow-Eyes and such and such.
G: Yeah, like, exactly. Like, in a way, the narrative was always doomed, but also, he doomed the narrative.
C: Do we know who Charlie is the parent of? Is this an earlier iteration of the psychic kids, or is Charlie, perhaps, the parent of a psychic kid that we know.
G: Perhaps he's a parent.
C: Oh, yeah, I know. Like, is he like, the parent of like, one of the rounds of psychic kids death games that we didn't see, or like do you think- who do you think he's the parent of?
G: Obviously, one whose mother didn't die 'cause like- Well, no, because like, Mary, only died because she entered that room. It wasn't because she had to die. So like, the person who makes the deal doesn't have to die.
C: Yeah.
G: I don't know. Who do you think is Charlie a parent of?
C: I don't know.
G: He looks a little bit like the guy with the van. What's his name?
C: Andy?
G: Andy! He looks a little bit like Andy.
C: Nice. Okay, that's my vote also, then. This is Andy's dad.
G: Slay.
-
G: So we go to the Campbell house, and Dean is starting to get a little freaked out, a little hyped up. And he slams a map down on the table, and he's like- they're starting to talk about "I know what this thing is. This thing killed my family. You're in danger. We're all in danger."
C: Also, there's a really fun shot, where, like, while he's yelling, it shows Deanna like, chopping a banana really aggressively or like, quickly.
G: Yeah, not even holding the banana. The banana is just down on the chopping board, and she's just slamming her fucking knife on it. I respect that.
C: Yeah.
G: Deanna comes in like, we don't know what it is even. It could be a shapeshifter, it could be a demon, it could be- and Dean just goes like, "I know what it is, and I'm gonna kill it. That's all the talking I need to do." And like, Dean says that he knows that Daniel Elkins in Colorado has the Colt. The Colt. And Samuel, of course has heard of the Colt, but he thinks it's not real.
C: Yeah, he says he used to tell it to Mary as a bedtime story, which I think is a joke. But it's fun to think of like, a literal like, hunter childhood that involves bedtime stories.
G: Bedtime stories, yes. Dean insists that it's true, and he's gonna get it. Dean basically says that in the journal that he has his, his dad wrote everything and every opportunity that the yellow-eyed demon showed up. And it's obvious that, like, the pages are full of like, future appearances at this point. And Samuel asks, like, "How did your dad know all that?" And he's like [both laugh], he says [laughing], “My dad can see the future.”
C: He's so funny! He's so funny.
G: God, it's so fucking funny. And then he says, like, “Tomorrow, the demon is gonna go to Liddy Walsh. And it's about 3 miles from here, and etc., etc." And Dean says like, "I know you guys think I'm crazy, but I'm gonna stop this thing. And I know where this thing is gonna to be, and I'm gonna kill it."
C: He says, “I'm gonna stop it once and for all.” And I think he's like-
G: Echoing Cas?
C: Reiterating Cas's words, yeah.
G: Yeah.
C: yeah, Good for him. Oh, how many fucking deals is Azazel making? Like, he's doing like, one a day like, all in Kansas?
G: Yeah, he really chose a spot and fucking ran with it. He is committed to the bit.
C: He has his stupid little Nazi speech-
G: God.
C: - about how he's like, picking the best genes to like, whatever the fuck. So like, there's like, a lot of really cool people in Kansas, like, within like, 5 miles of Mary's house, I guess?
-
C: As Dean heads out, he stops by to say goodbye to Mary, and she's like, there, going through her records. She seems disappointed that he's going so soon, and he says, “I wanted to tell you, for what it's worth, it doesn't matter what your dad thinks. I like that John kid. I think you two are meant to be.” [both] Booo.
Have you seen the web wave that uses the poem "I Go Back to May 1937" by Sharon Olds?
G: I think I have, yeah, but like, tell me about it.
C: Oh, I mean, it is like, about Dean, and like, John and Mary, and I think the lines in it- should I just read the entire fucking poem?
G: Yeah, go for it.
C: I don't know how to say it. Okay. I will read the entire fucking poem.
I see them standing at the formal gates of their colleges,
I see my father strolling out
under the ochre sandstone arch, the
red tiles glinting like bent
plates of blood behind his head, I
see my mother with a few light books at her hip
standing at the pillar made of tiny bricks,
the wrought-iron gate still open behind her, its
sword-tips aglow in the May air,
they are about to graduate, they are about to get married,
they are kids, they are dumb, all they know is they are
innocent, they would never hurt anybody.
I want to go up to them and say Stop,
don’t do it—she’s the wrong woman,
he’s the wrong man, you are going to do things
you cannot imagine you would ever do,
you are going to do bad things to children,
you are going to suffer in ways you have not heard of,
you are going to want to die. I want to go
up to them there in the late May sunlight and say it,
her hungry pretty face turning to me,
her pitiful beautiful untouched body,
his arrogant handsome face turning to me,
his pitiful beautiful untouched body,
but I don’t do it. I want to live. I
take them up like the male and female
paper dolls and bang them together
at the hips, like chips of flint, as if to
strike sparks from them, I say
Do what you are going to do, and I will tell about it.
Agh!!!! Okay, that's all I have to say.
G: That poem made me emotional. Like, I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes. [both laugh]
C: It's a good fucking poem! And he's literally- He wants to live, and he takes them up like the male and female paper dolls and bangs them together at the hips! Agh! Because after this, he says quietly, like, “Hell, I'm depending on it,” like, he is depending on them getting together to live. Ah!
And he asks Mary, "What is John like?" And she's like, "Why?" And he says, “I'm just curious.” Ah, god! Because in “Home,” like, they interviewed someone, and he was like, "Oh, like, John was like, a great kid, and he doted on his children, and he was a great husband, but after his wife died, like, something just went wrong." And, like, Dean probably remembers bit of John not being like, the drill sergeant that he is, but not that much, and he wants to know.
G: Also, I wanna say, it's so funny to me that John was like- I understand that it's a pivotal part of your life, and it's like, blah blah blah! But he was like, in a war for a couple of years [laughing], and he made that his personality for the rest of his life after Mary died. [C laughing] Like, he wasn't even like, in the military. You know what I mean? Like, he's not like, a military man throughout his whole life.
C: Right, yeah. How many years did he fight. Like, 3? [both laugh]
G: Is this so mean? Is this so mean? It is mean.
C: I mean, a lot of- it is very possible to get PTSD from like, things that are 3 years or less. But I know what you mean in that like, there are people who have served for way longer and like, wear their uniform all the time for fun and like, are always talking about being in the military, and like, that's not really John. He just like, decided to turn into that as like, a forever coping mechanism, and that's stupid.
G: Yeah. I'm still thinking about the poem you mentioned, and it's like, it makes me so so so sad that, like, you see them here, and they are just kids, though, like, is the thing.
C: Yeah.
G: Like, you hear them talk to each other, and it's the most generic like, "I love you! I'll never leave you!" and it's like, you don't know the intensity of those words, you know? And like, you don't know the things that will happen, and, "I'll accept you for whoever you are," but like, what if- I don't know. I'm just thinking too, like, that episode in Season 14 where John comes back, and it's like, ah. Even then, like, the love is still there, blah blah blah. We'll get more into this, I feel, when we talk about how John and Mary were basically red-string-of-fate-d by Heaven.
C: Yup.
G: I think that would be a more interesting time to have this kind of conversation, but it is also interesting the whole like, "What do you do with a love that's meant to be in a way that maybe shouldn't have been?" you know, like blah blah blah. God, like, the thing about John and Mary is like, their story is very interesting. It's just that I would rather die than watch The Winchesters. [both laugh]
C: I'm sure that The Winchesters did not make them very interesting or tell their story the way that it is told in Supernatural with all the fate and shit. I mean, well, actually, The Winchesters doesn't matter, because- oh, right, I forgot to tell you. Or do you not know this? This isn't the John and Mary of this universe.
G: What the fuck?
C: This is an alternative universe. Dean has been taking his like, dimension-hopping car to a bunch of alternate universes, like, finding ones where he can make John and Mary happy.
G: That is wild shit. That's not even his parents!
C: Yeah. Yeah. Part of the alternate of the universe is that they're- the, like, chromosomes decided to take different things from both of them, so the kids that they have are not even going to be Sam and Dean. I know this in my heart.
G: Jesus Christ.
C: And the first thing Mary says is, “I don't know,” which I think is so something. She says, “I don't know. He's sweet. Kind. Even after the war, after everything, he still believes in happily ever after, you know? He's everything a hunter isn't." And that's- I know that's something that people have latched onto is that Mary tells John, like, "I love you for what you are," and John tells Mary, "I love you for who you are," and like, this is a "what he is," and what he is is not a hunter.
G: Yeah.
C: He is her special little not-a-hunter chance at normality. She is his- I don't know, like, sort of real girl, but he also knows nothing about her, but he's a paper doll to her. Good for her.
G: God. I feel like they really could have done so much like, so so much with John and Mary in terms of, like, when you're young, like, what love is like. But I don't think that's at all where this story is gonna go. It's fascinating to me because they take it at face value, too, like, the fact that it's like, "They're so young and stupid" kind of vibe. And it's like, I don't know.
C: Yeah, no, the writers of Supernatural are like, "And this is real, correct love."
G: Yeah, like, it's never examined in a certain way. Like, it's never examined in a- you said like, she said, like, "I don't know" about like, her first reaction to like, "What is John like?" I don't know. That's super interesting. Yeah.
C: Also, she said they've been dating for years, but they're both 19, and John was like, in the army before this, right? How have they been dating for years? Did they go to the same high school? I don't think that's part of the John and Mary lore, is it?
G: [laughs] The only John and Mary lore I know is John and Mary, husband and wife, and they brought home a brand new life! [C laughs]
C: That's a very good point. What if they're not even 19? I looked up their birthdays, but let me check again. Like, maybe I'm talking out of my absolute ass.
G: Exactly.
C: Okay. John was born in 1954, which is, plus 19, is 1973. Right? Yeah? And Mary was born in, yeah, 1954. Okay, yes, they are both 19, cool.
And then Mary tells Dean like, "Can I tell you something?" And like, she sort of like, squees or something, and she goes like, "He's gonna ask me to marry him. Tomorrow, I think." And she's so excited, and she says, like, “Oh, my dad's gonna explode!" - which he does [laughs] - "But I don't care! I'll run away if I have to."
G: "My dad's gonna scream, cry, moan, throw up, and die," and he literally does.
C: And stab himself. Yeah. And she says that she'll run away if she has to. God, she's so Sam-coded! And she says, "It's just that I love John, and..." And she sort of pauses and looks around, like she's not sure if she should say this next part out out loud, and Dean prompts her, and she says, “I want to get out. This job, this life. I hate it. I want a family. I want to be safe. You know the worst thing I can think of? The very worst thing? Is for my children to be raised into this like I was. No, I won't let it happen." And Dean blinks back tears and so do I.
G: Yeah, me, too.
C: Yeah. [laughs] And the last part is a little bit too much the writers going, "Hey, winkedy-wink," but it's still effective! It still works. And like, the whole safe thing, I think, is also reiterated by Sam, right, in his first episode? Doesn't he say something like "Not normal. Safe." like, about what he wanted from his life? Yeah. Agh. She wants to get out! This job, this life, she hates it! Ah.
And Dean goes like- he's crying a bit, and he goes, "Yeah." And Mary asks if he's okay, and he's like, "Yes." And then he says, like, “Can I tell you something? And can you promise me something, even if it sounds weird.” And like, he's so intense while saying this, and a single man tear is slipping down his face as he says, “On November 2nd, 1983, don't get out of bed, no matter what you hear or what you see.” And she says, “Okay.” And he leaves.
Her ass is not remembering. [laughs]
G: Her ass is not remembering. But this scene really got to me, I feel.
C: Yeah. I think he knows, also, that-
G: It's not gonna happen. It's wishful thinking.
C: Yeah. But like, he can't not have tried.
G: Yeah.
-
G: We're back on the road. Dean is driving, and Cas shows up next to him. And then he asks, like, "Why not bring Sam back?" and Cas is like, "You had to do this alone." And Dean asks, "You don't give a shit that, like, Sam is looking for me right now?" [laughing] And Cas just goes [C laughs], "Sam's not looking for you." And I was like, "That's so fucking funny."
C: God, that iss.
G: Go fucking tell him, Cas. Go fucking tell him. [laughs]
C: Okay, Dean's been here for like, over a day or whatever, right?
G: Yeah. It seems like it's the same night.
C: Yeah, it seems like when he comes back, it's at the exact same time, just like in Doctor Who. So there's no reason for Sam to be looking for him, anyway.
G: Yeah. But also, even if he was, he's not. [both laughing] Yeah. And then tries to confirm to Cas, like, "If I do this," meaning kill the demon, the family curse breaks, like, they get to live happily ever after, and Sam and I grow up a normal life. And then Cas points out that if you, Dean, if you alter the the past, you will alter the future, and you will never be hunter- you'll never be hunters, like, you and Sam, and all the people you saved, they'll die. Which we've talked about in the past.
C: Yeah, we did that in 2.20 already.
G: Yeah, that, like, the other hunters can like, deal with it, like, Sam and Dean are not the only hunters. But like, given this, like, let's pretend this is what's happening. Like, Dean is like, "Yeah, of course I realize that." And Cas asks, "You don't give a shit?" [both laughing] I mean, Cas says, "You don't care?" And Dean says, “I care plenty, but I cannot let my parents die. Like, I can't. Not if I can stop it."
C: And he can't. He can't stop it.
G: And then he looks over at Cas. Cas has disappeared. But I think this is a good insight on Dean, and that at the end of the day, he's just his parents' kids. No. He's just his parents' kid.
C: Yeah.
G: And no matter what, no matter how angry he has become at John for like, the whole like, "I didn't deserve what Dad put me through, I don't deserve to go to Hell," and no matter how distant Mary is in the past, like, the moment that there's an opportunity to have had a life with those people, he would choose it over and over again. And it's like, yeah.
C: It's also that the John that he is angry at was- I mean, was always part of John, but like, only became John's main facade after this happened. So like, he's like, "This is not even the same guy. I can't be angry at him the way that I was angry at my dad."
G: And it's also fascinating that he says, like, “Mom and Dad get to be happy, mumber one.And me and Sam get to be happy too." Like, this is like-
C: He goes, "Well, me and Sam get to be normal" is sort of what his thing is. Mom and Dad get to be happy, and me and Sam get to be normal. Fascinating.
[laughing] What did you say Cas said? "Who give a shit?" or "And you don't give a shit?"
G: What do you mean?
C: After Cas said, "You'll never become hunters and all the people you saved will die," [laughing] I literally paused my screen and said, "Who give a shit?" to Cas, and I continue-
G: Literally. Cas, listen to me. Cas. [C laughing] Nobody give a shit. Like, you need to know this.
C: Yeah. I just- the thing is, I feel like- I like Cas in this episode. He feels a little weaker in this episode than he has in the past two.
G: But that's because he's not around much.
C: I think it's also- Well, he's around even less in 4.02.
G: But like, he has a lot of lines there, lots of exposition, lots of opportunity to be a character.
C: Yeah, but I guess it's more that this thing about him saying that Dean should care about like, the people that he saved doesn't- it seems like the writers talking through him. It doesn't seem to align with what he said in the last episode about like, "We have bigger things to deal with." Dean was like, "People died because, like, you guys didn't get the witnesses under control," and Cas was just like, "We had other things to deal with." Like, I don't think he would be someone who cared that much about the people that Dean saved, at least at this point in time. Like, he doesn't seem to hold hunting to be like, this glorious institution of like, goodness the way that the show does. Like, he doesn't seem to distinguish between hunters and civilians, at least in 4.02. It's just like, "Oh, like, those are all bugs."
G: Yeah, that's interesting. Like, he-
C: So this part I thought was weird.
G: Yeah, I suppose. But like, I think it also is like, asking Dean, like, "Where do your priorities lie?" Like, I think that's a reasonable thing to ask someone. Yeah, especially because, you know, Dean is so adamant about the whole saving people last episode.
C: That's true. This could be a response to what Dean said last time. Like, "Oh, what about like, everything you said last week?" Okay, yeah. I like that reading. Ugh. Dean was so annoying last week. "People are dying down here. Why aren't you helping us?" Like, 20 people died of ghosts, like, tell the angels to- tell the angel to cure tuberculosis if you actually care.
G: Literally. Well, to be fair, I mean, this is my fucking like- I don't know. What do you call when you're talking about something? Like, soapbox? [laughs]
C: Yeah, this is your soapbox to stand on, right?
G: My soapbox is like, tuberculosis is cured. There is a cure for tuberculosis. [laughs]
C: Okay, it's more that- okay, by cure, I mean, like, make it more- distributed, etc etc.
G: Accessible, yeah yeah yeah, all that.
-
G: So Dean goes to Daniel Elkin's house. Who is, you know, the guy with the Colt. And he is in front of the safe, already having cracked it, already having the Colt in his hand. And the guy comes in, points the gun at him, and is like, "Drop that. I can't let you get that Colt," blah blah blah. But Dean is saying, "I just need it for a while. I'll return it to you. It's just my one chance to save my family. I need this gun." And he says, like, “If you want to stop me, you can kill me. It's fine. But like, I am gonna take the Colt.” And the guy doesn't shoot him, and I like that. I like this little character moment for the guy
C: Yeah. You know what I don't like? How no one in this episode has heard of holy water before? Like, how does he not know this is the demon taking away the one demon-killing weapon?
G: This one is weird. What the fuck does this mean? "There are some hunters in Lawrence. The Campbells." And then he goes, "Never heard of them," and then Dean goes, "That's where she'll be."
C: He's she/her-ing the gun. [G laughs] He's saying, "After I leave, like, you can go to the Campbells and they'll have the gun." [G laughing]
G: Okay. I was truly wondering, like, "Is he talking about Mary? Like, why is he bringing up Mary right now?"
C: No. He's she/her-ing the fucking gun.
G: She's literally a she/her. [C laughs]
-
C: So we cut to the Campbells, and, you know, Mary and Samuel are like, cleaning or assembling guns. Mary looks really cool. And she asked after Dean, and Samuel says, "He's gonna go kill a demon." And when Mary asks where, Samuel says, “Oh, he's heading to the Walsh's place,” and Mary goes, “Wait, Liddy Walsh? Like, Dad, that's my friend. Like, she is my friend. We have to go help her.” Which is nice. I like that Mary has friends.
G: Yeah.
C: But it is just for plot. Like, we don't even see her interact with Liddy at all. Like, they're in the same room, and they don't even talk. Like, Liddy isn't like, “Oh my god, Mary, like, are you okay?” when she gets thrown or any of that shit. So like, whatever, I guess.
G: Yeah. And like, I don't know. But thinking about the fact that Mary has contact outside of the family, even if the contact doesn't know that they're hunters is so interesting because Sam and Dean are so far removed from everyone around them that wasn't in the hunting community. So it's fascinating that there is this alternative hunting lifestyle where you're a hunter, you're a family of hunters, but your child still gets to live a semi-normal life.
C: Yeah.
G: So, I don't know. It could have been interesting to see them interact. Like, maybe even after. Like, it's fascinating that like, Samuel's the one to comfort her-
C: Yeah, Mary trying to explain hunting to Liddy or something. That would be nice.
She runs out to the car. Well, she says, “I'll be in the car,” which implies that there's only one car. So [laughing] when she drives back home after this, did she leave Samuel and Dean stranded with no car?
G: So real.
C: Yeah. After she heads out, we get the funniest joke ever! of Samuel going, "Oh, so she wants to hunt, and then she doesn't want to hunt. Is this some female time of month thing?" And then like, just to show like, "Oh, we're not misogynistic," they show like, Deanna, like, sighing, so it's like, "Look, no, it's just Samuel being stupid!"
G: Yeah.
C: Ugh, boring shit, who give a shit, whatever, I hate you
G: The thing about periods is when people who get periods make fun of like, periods and talk about how like, "Oh, when I get my period, like, I'm fucking crazy and insane balls to the wall," I'm like, "Haha, that's funny."
C: Yeah. [laughs]
G: But like, the moment someone who doesn't get a period does it, I'm like, "I literally will skin you alive."
C: [laughs] Yup. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I mean, I guess, like, I get sort of the utility of this as like, a character-building moment for Samuel. Like, maybe it does matter that, like, Mary's dad is a little misogynistic, and even though she is being trained into hunting, like, her mom is still doing a housewife role, and most of the time she's on screen, she's like, cooking. But like, I also don't know if it's that deep. So whatever.
G: Like [laughs] this is so funny because you're- like, the way you're talking about it is like, "They're treating their female characters with misogyny. But also, maybe they intended and [C laughing] it's a reading into misogyny and it's criticizing misogyny," and I don't know at what point we're making excuses for this show, man. Like, I think we are, though. We are making excuses for this show.
C: Yeah.
G: "Here's my critique of misogyny where everyone every woman in the scene is treated with misogyny and the show doesn't acknowledge it with any meaningful way." [C laughs]
C: Yeah. Yeah.
-
C: So we're at the Welfare's house.
Is Liddy Walsh Asian, or is she-
G: Yes!
C: Yes?
G: I think so.
C: She looks kind of like she's Asian Yay! Another Asian woman. Big win
G: Big win. And she doesn't die.
C: Yes. And she's gonna be okay.
G: Hell yeah. She's literally gonna be okay.
C: Good for her.
G: Good for her. Although I suppose, like, a relative of hers is gonna die of cancer. So RIP.
C: That is true. Sorry, Liddy.
She's on the couch with a doctor, and he's like, "I'm sorry," like someone, presumably her dad, like, his cancer has metastasized, like, he's gonna die. And they're sitting way too close. And the doctor's like, "There's one way. A cure. But I'll need your help." And she's like, "Okay, yes, what do I have to do?" And he says, “Oh, just nothing. In 10 years I'm just gonna come to you and ask for something then, but it'll be nothing you'll miss.” Which is not- the deal with Mary is that he can enter her house in 10 years and be undisturbed, right? What is this version? I'm gonna come in and ask you politely if I can drip blood into your child's mouth? [G laughs]
G: I don't know.
C: Whatever. Yeah. And they're like, holding hands at this point and leaning in. It's weird. And then his eyes turn yellow and Liddy starts screaming. And at this, the door busts open, and Samuel comes in, and he starts shooting Azazel. But Azazel, you know, sends the gun flying across the room and pins Samuel against a wall. And he's about to like, I don't know, kill, do something with Samuel when Mary shows up behind him with a knife. And he sees her and immediately goes pervert mode for some reason. He's all like, "Where the hell have they been hiding you? I like you. You got a lot of spunk." or whatever because he wants to fill her with his spunk, etc., etc..
G: I quite like the line "Where the hell have they been hiding you?" Like, it implies a certain, like, Mary is still protected by her family in some way.
C: Yeah.
G: Like, they don't let her hunt like, big things that much. I think that's a character-building or at least a dynamic-building moment for the Campbells of like, even though Mary grew up in this environment, and they're pretty open about it with her, they're still protecting her in some way because this demon didn't did know that she's here. Although, like, yeah, he is a fucking creep, and it's a whole thing.
C: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, she slices him with the knife but he eventually, like, gets it out of her hands, and she is also pinned against a wall. And then Dean comes in with the Colt, and Azazel uses Mary as like, a human shield. He asks Dean, "Where did you get that gun?" And Dean and Mary do like, a fun little thing where like, Dean, like, gets the gun ready, and he makes like, a nod to Mary, and like, she uses that nod to mean like, "Okay, in this second, I'm gonna break out of this guy's arms so that you can shoot and kill him." But unfortunately, Azazel escapes by, you know, black smoke out of the mouth, blah blah blah thing.
G: Yeah. It's fascinating to me because this felt so anti-climactic, and for obvious reasons. It's not the climax of the episode. But I wonder how Dean felt. Like, it's over.
C: He sort of sighs. He goes like, "Damn" to himself.
G: No, but, you know, it must have sucked so bad.
C: Yeah, like, he thought this was like, his chance to send his family.
G: And now the chance is gone.
C: And now Azazel might never come back.
-
G: So now they're outside the house, and Dean and Mary are talking, and Mary is like, "He told me he liked me," and she's like, "What did he mean by that?" You know, it's- sorry, Mary. And Samuel comes out and he says that, you know, he comforted Liddy, Liddy's gonna be fine.
C: Okay, wait. How do we know Azazel didn't just kill Liddy? We have no clue. Samuel's already possessed. Liddy could be dead for all we know.
G: No, for real, though. Oh, that sucks
C: Sorry, Liddy.
G: Sorry, Liddy.
C: Congratulations on being Asian! [G laughs]
G: Yeah. And then, you know, Samuel talks to Dean, and he's trying to compliment Dean, but Dean is like, "I missed the shot, so I'm not gonna take your compliment."
C: As soon as Samuel complimented Dean - 'cause I didn't know for sure when Azazel took him over - but as soon as that compliment happened, I was like, "Oh, that's Azazel. That's a classic Azazel move."
G: Oh, yeah, you're right! Yeah.
C: Yeah. And it being about Dean missing the shot is also, like, what happened last time Azazel complimented Dean, right?
G: Yeah.
C: Dean's like, "No, like, I wasted a bullet."
G: Yeah. Anyway, Dean tells Samuel that they need to talk alone. So they do. And here, back in the Campbell house, Dean tells Samuel that if they don't kill the yellow-eyed demon right now, Mary will die. And there's a a bit of like, a pushback where Samuel's like, "What the fuck are you on?" And Dean reveals that Mary is his mom, blah blah blah, and he's his grandchild. And he tells his name, he tells his birthday, and he tells where- when Mary gets killed by the yellow-eyed demon.
C: Yup.
G: And yeah, we go to Mary and John, and Mary is super upset, and John hugs her, asks what's wrong, and Mary says, “You promised you’d take me away. Do it now."
C: Generic-ass shit.
G: Yeah. And, you know, they climb into the car. It's a whole thing.
C: What do you mean by that? Like, are they leaving town? G: I think so.
C: Does she not want to pack a bag?
G: I think they're gonna elope.
C: Or say goodbye to her mom? Okay, so like, they'll come back after they're married.
G: Yeah.
C: Briefly. Okay, sure.
G: We go back to Dean and Samuel, and Samuel is saying that, like, "Okay, I believe you, whatever." And Dean brings out John's journal and the list of like, all the places that fucking Azazel went after this one. And he brings out the Colt, and, you know, Samuel tries to get it. Dean is like, "No, I'm not gonna give it to you." And Dean is like, "No, it's nothing personal. I just don't give it to other people." And Samuel's like, "Yeah it is personal. Because you're trying to kill me."
C: Yeah, baby!
G: And his eyes- Samuel's eyes turn yellow, and then Dean is like, slammed against the wall with a chair or something.
C: So fun. Love it. Love a twist.
G: You're right that he has been possessed for a while, and he probably did kill Liddy. What a sad, sad affair.
C: Sorry, Liddy.
C: Oh, the him! You're right that at the journal thing. Oh, sorry! No! You go ahead first.
G: But also like, the whole journal thing. Is it implied that he is the one who gave-
C: - Azazel the information?
G: Yeah. Like, the reason why Azazel was able to go to all the people he went through because he had this list.
C: I think so.
G: That's so horrible!
C: Yeah, which is very interesting, though. Like, it's a total closed loop of information. Like, no one actually came up with the idea.
G: Yeah.
C: But you know what's funny about the closed loop of information is that I like to imagine that Dean was completely wrong about what he said about the Impala's like, specs and stuff, but John was just imitating what he heard Dean say, but, like, Dean, was just imitating what he heard John say.
G: Yeah, for real.
C: So, like, neither of them know anything about the car.
So, you know, Azazel's attacking Dean and shit, and he's like, "Oh, so you're from the future." And he reveals that he knows about angels because he says, like, “There's only one thing that can do time travel, so you must have friends in high places.” And he goes like, “Oh, so I killed your mommy, and that's why you came all this way? To see lil' old me.” God, he's so fun! And oh, also, now that he's revealed himself, you know, he's acting completely different.
G: Yeah, he's being a creep again.
C: I don't remember what the first Azazel well actor played him like, but I feel like this is a decent reiteration of his demeanor and voice and stuff. Like, it's fun.
G: At the very least-
C: Shit! I didn't hear this next line. I didn't know what he called Mary. He says, “If that slut Mary’s your mommy, are you one of my psychic kids?” He called her a slut?
G: And for what?
C: For what? [laughs]
G: He's so horrible.
C: Yeah. Whatever. People call people sluts for no- Sorry. People call women sluts for no fucking reason in Supernatural, though. Like, Dean calls Ruby a slut, even though she's like, not had sex yet, like, as far as they're aware on the show so far.
G: Yeah. Ruby's a virgin, truly.
C: Yeah. [laughs] Human!Meg calls, like, Meg's demon outfit as slutty, even though it's like, less skin than her human outfit. It's just a word that means fucking nothing on Supernatural.
G: Yeah.
C: Yeah. But he's, okay, he's actually very excited at the idea that Dean could be one of the [both] psychic kids. Actually, speaking of, remember when Dean is telling Samuel about like, the future, blah blah blah stuff, Samuel asks, "What? Are you like a psychic or something?" And there's like, a long pause on Dean's face before he goes, "No." And I was like, "That was weird," but like, that's probably just like, a callback to this. Or like, a foreshadowing to this, right?
G: Yeah.
C: Okay, fun. So he like, sniffs Dean.
G: It's such a good scene, though. Like, he literally leans in and just smells the fuck out of her, and like, he's able to smell there and then that like-
C: They're not true mates.
G: - he doesn't have demon blood. Oh, god! [C laughs] That he doesn't have demon blood. And it's a throwback for me to [overlapping] "Laz Rise" where the girl- what's her name? The waitress, the demon waitress says that “I can smell you from a mile away” or something at Sam. And like, we don't know yet, but he was drinking demon blood, right? At that point?
C: Yes.
G: And it's like, that demon blood is what they can smell, and that's so interesting!
C: That is fun.
G: He literally is full of demon blood, and they can smell him from a mile away!
C: Yeah. Yeah. So he goes, "Okay, so it's not you." And then he goes. "Maybe you got a sis." And he pauses, and he goes, "Or a bro. That's terrific." Azazel misogyny moments.
G: Yeah.
C: Yeah. But then he's like, "Okay, well, that's great, because like, that means that my plan's gonna work out in the future." And, you know, he reveals that he doesn't want people's souls from the deals. He just wants their kids. And he wants to choose the perfect parents. And he's choosing them because "They're strong, they're pure, and they eat their Wheaties, My own little master race. They're ideal breeders."
G: Wild.
C: So, I don't know. Clearly, like, just callbacks to eugenics and Nazi terminology, like, on purpose. I don't know if there's that much to discuss here. I think what I find most interesting is that the angels do the exact same thing.
At this point, we notice that Deanna is in like, the kitchen and can see them. and is noticing that something is up. Dean makes like, a face at the "ideal breeders" thing, and Azazel's like, "Oh, no, no one's breeding with me. Though Mary?"
G: God!
C: "Man, I'd like to make an exception." Ew! Why? Ew.
She's his "favorite," supposedly, which is maybe- he's very excited that Sam's the one who made it. Or he's sad when he thinks that Jake is the one who made it, and he's happy when Sam's the one who makes it. Like, is it because of this, like, obsession with Mary that he's developed?
G: Yeah, I think it is connected. I don't think- like, now that we see this, perhaps he wasn't lying when he said that Sam is his favorite.
C: Oh, true, true, because he did call everyone his favorite. But maybe he actually meant it with Sam.
Dean asks the question that everyone is fucking asking, which is, "Why did you make the deals? Can't you just fucking go into people's houses?" And Azazel says some dumbass handwavey thing about how he needs to be invited. Or maybe- is this related to the mythology of like, Azazel for real or something, do you think?
G: I don't know. 'Cause like, I don't think other demons are like, "I need to be invited in the house!" Right?
C: Yeah. But like, maybe in the Bible or some shit, or in like, certain Jewish commentaries-
G: Like, him specifically.
C: Yeah, maybe. If any of you know things about like, Azazel as he appears in Judaism, or in Christianity, I guess, like, hit us up, let us know.
G: Yeah.
C: And he goes, "You know what I'm gonna do to your sibling? I'm gonna stand over their crib and I'm gonna bleed into their mouth." They/them Sam rights.
G: Real.
C: Yeah. But he says, basically, “Demon blood makes you big and strong.” And Dean asks if the plan is for like, the demon army thing. and he says, “No, I have, like, a way bigger endgame. But I am not gonna tell you because you have a bunch of angels who are spying in on me via you.”
G: No, what is that endgame?
C: I think that- Okay, at first I thought it was like, a Lucifer's vessel thing. But I don't know if he knows that. I think it's just the bringing about of the Apocalypse via killing Lilith.
G: Yeah, perhaps.
C: Like, you know, "I'll give someone the power, and then, like, they'll have like, this giant demon army, and be so strong, and then they'll be able to use their brain and explode Lilith and kill her or whatever." Though, okay, actually, does the Colt not work on Lilith?
G: No, I think it does.
C: Okay, why- or the demon knife? Does that not work on Lilith?
G: I don't think it does.
C: Okay. But the Colt works.
G: The Colt works for sure for everyone.
C: So why did Sam need to drink all the blood to kill Lilith if he could have just shot her with a gun?
G: 'Cause they didn't have the Colt.
C: Oh, yeah, I forgot.
G: It's a whole thing. Whole plotline.
C: Could Dean not just like- okay, I guess it would have been bad if he took it back to his timeline because then they wouldn't have it in the past anymore, but yeah.
G: I mean, they do do that in like, I think, in like, Season 6. There's a plotline where it's like- I'm not sure if it's the Colt-
C: They take it from the past?
G: I'm not sure if it's the Colt. But there is a thing that they go back in the past for, and then they do this whole thing where they formulate it so the day in the present, the thing gets delivered to their house. It's fucking funny as fuck.
C: Oh.
G: Love that episode though. Yeah, they go back to the Wild West, like, cowboy shit.
C: Yeah.
G: Love Sam's outfit in that episode. I don't remember anything else. Yeah.
C: Dean does a stupid-ass thing where he reveals that he is going to be the one to kill Azazel. Like, don't tell him that. Like, okay, I personally believe that the way Supernatural time travel works is that you can't change anything that's already happened, it's a fixed point. But, like, Dean still believes that he can save people and that his actions in the past matter. What you have done right now is ensure that like, in the future, Azazel comes to you as a baby and murders you so you can't kill him.
G: Yeah.
C: Yeah. But it is weird that Azazel never mentions this conversation when he sees Dean in like, Season 1, you know? But I guess I didn't know this episode was gonna happen yet. I guess we can say maybe that's the reason he spent more time talking to Dean than to Sam in the end of Season 1 if we want to Watsonian this
Azazel doesn't believe him. But Dean's like, "No, for real. I'm definitely going to kill you. Definitely, definitely."
G: "I'm not lying at all! I'm not lying at all!"
C: "I prommy!" G: "I'm being fucking for real!" [C laughs] He said it like that. He said, [whiny] "I'm being fucking for real right now!" [C laughs]
C: Yeah. And he was crying.
G: Yeah.
C: But Azazel's like, "Okay. Well, you know someone you're not gonna save? Me!" Oh, also, at this point, Deanna has been getting closer and closer to getting the Colt on the ground, but at this point, Azazel stabs himself in the stomach, killing Samuel, killing his vessel, and Deanna screams, "No!" So she's revealed that she is there.
And then, I don't know. Fight scene, fight scene. Azazel kills Deanna by breaking her neck.
G: Yeah.
C: Dean grabs the Colt, but Samuel/Azazel is gone, and she is dead, and Dean yells, "Mary!"
-
G: Yeah. And we go to Mary who is with John in a fucking car, parked- [laughs] Like, I thought they were- I thought they were stranded in the river! Like, I literally thought-
C: In the water?
G: I thought- I thought like, 'cause they were so near the water, I was like, "Damn. They swerved off, and they got stuck by the river bed." [C laughs]
C: Real.
G: But no. Like, John, is like, "It's no secret that I brought you here," and then he brings out the ring. And Mary is like, "There's things you don't know about me, John." And he goes, "So? I will always love you for exactly who you are."
C: Yup!
G: And then the yellow-eyed demon shows up, and like, pulls Mary out, and then he's like- He's still pretending to be Samuel at this point, and he's mad, etc., etc. And John is like, "No, sir, listen to me!" And John, like, keeps on trying to stop Samuel, from his perspective, from like, hurting Mary, because Mary is saying, "You're hurting me!" as, you know, her dad grabs her. And then [both laughing] Azazel literally just goes up to John, snaps his neck, and he dies instantly. [C laughing]
C: God, it's so funny! It was so funny.
G: It is pretty funny. And he falls.
C: I want to live in Mary's head for the five seconds when she thought that her fucking dad did that.
G: Yeah. And then, like, Mary, just goes, "You killed him." [both laugh] And then Azazel goes, "Yeah, but not just him. Mommy and Daddy, too." And then he shows that, you know, Samuel is dead. Like, stabbed himself.
C: And also his eyes are yellow at this point.
G: Yeah yeah yeah.
The yellow-eyed demon starts sweet-talking Mary, and he says that “Oh, I'll bring John back if you grant me permission to swing by your house ten years from now.”
C: Mary asks-
G: For her parents, yeah.
C: - if he can bring her parents back too, and he says, “No, that's not on the table.” And then he says, like, “This is good, actually, that your parents will be dead and John will be alive because it means you can escape hunting forever, and you can live a normal life with no more monsters,” blah blah blah.
G: Yeah.
C: He says, “No more monsters or fear. I'll make sure of it.” which implies that he's also going to protect her from like, supernatural creatures in her future life.
G: Which I assume like, in the 10 years, perhaps he did.
C: Yeah, perhaps he did.
G: Yeah.
C: Ah. Fascinating.
G: And, you know, he says that like, as long as Mary or anyone doesn't interrupt him at his visit, nobody is gonna get hurt. And "It's either this or spend the rest of your life desperate and alone."
C: Like it's not possible to have more than one boyfriend in your life. [laughs]
G: I mean when you're 19, it feels like that.
C: Yeah. I guess. Or she has a very outdated idea about virginity, and she's like, "No, I'm damaged goods now! No one will want me!" [laughs] Who knows?
G: Yeah. Anyway, we go back to Dean's-
C: At this point, Mary's fucking crying, right? Like, yeah, she's [both] sobbing.
G: Yeah. She's distraught.
C: And it's interesting, because at first, like, when he kills John, and like, he tells her about her parents, like she's like, angry, and like, very tightly wound up, and she tells him like, "I'll kill you. I swear to god." But then, like, as he keeps talking, like, you can see that like, fall away, and eventually, like, she goes from single woman tear to just sobbing.
G: Yeah. And then we go back to Dean's perspective, and he shows up. Mary is already kissing Azazel.
C: Mm-hm. It's graphic! In her dad's body. It's graphic. There's like, tongue, and it lasts way too long.
G: Yeah. Yeah. And Dean has the Colt. But before he can shoot, like, Azazel gets out of the body. And then John comes back to life.
C: Yeah.
G: And John and Mary are cradling each other as Cas appears. He puts a hand on Dean's shoulder, and Dean turns around. This is one of those iconic ones.
C: Mm.
G: The turning. You know, like, how in AMVs, like, people would do that?
C: Yeah, they have this touch a lot. Is it because the hand is on- Do you remember which shoulder Cas put the hand on?
G: No, I don't think so.
C: Do you think it's the handprint shoulder?
G: No, I mean I remember where the hand is, and I don't think it's the handprint shoulder.
C: Aw, okay. Sad!
G: Yeah. But they do the looking back thing a lot in Supernatural with Dean and Cas. I love it! And yeah. They disappear.
C: They disappear from 1973. G: And I love how the lingering shot is done because Dean disappears, right? But the camera doesn't disappear with him. We stay a bit on John and Mary and Samuel. And I quite like that, because, like, yeah, the story has ended from Dean's perspective, but these people, John and Mary specifically, still need to live through this. There's a sense of that.
C: Yeah. Also, just every shot of this last scene is like, iconic. Like, the scene of like- 'cause like, it's dark, and everything is just lit by the headlights of the car that Dean stole. So like, Azazel turning around, like, with his yellow eyes, and, like, Mary turning around and looking like a deer in the headlights, sort of, like, so scared and sad and stuff is like, it's good. The shots are good. They're iconic. They're very screenshotable.
-
C: So we get to the last scene. Dean gasps awake in the motel, and it's presumably like, the same day or whatever. And Cas is- Is he still sitting on the bed?
G: No, he's not.
C: Okay, he's standing near the bed. And Dean's upset. He says, “I couldn't stop any of it, and she still made the deal, and I bet like, right now, she still died in that nursery. So even my 'don't leave your room' thing didn't do anything.” And Cas says, "Don't be too hard on yourself. You couldn't have stopped it." And Dean like, stands up and goes, "What?" [G makes sad sound] Yeah. Sorry, dude. I just- I can't believe the whole time he thought he could do something. Like, up until the deal. He still thought he could do something. I guess he didn't live through "Mystery Spot." If Sam had been along, he would have been like, "I know exactly what this is. Let's just go somewhere else. We can't do anything about this." [laughs]
Okay, so what Cas says to Dean is "Destiny can't be changed, Dean. All roads lead to the same destination." And Dean asks, "Why did you send me back, then?" And Cas says, "It's for the truth. Now you know everything that we know about what Azazel did to your brother." This could have been an email. [both laugh] That's my thoughts. This is not a good explanation of why they sent Dean back. This could have been an email.
So Dean notices that that that Sam's bed is empty, and he goes like, "Where the fuck is Sam? Where the fuck is Sam?" And gives him an address, and Dean's about to head out, and Cas says, “Your brother is headed down a dangerous road, Dean, and we're not sure where it leads. So stop it. Or we will.”
G: I love that. Also, I love the shot where like, Dean goes, "What the hell are you talking about?" And instead of answering, Cas like, looks over at the bed, and the camera follows his sight.
C: Mm.
G: I just think it's so cool. Like, I think that's such a cool choice that like, communication for Cas is so un-straightforward. I mean, it's straightforward, like, but he's not- he's gonna tell you what he needs to tell you, but he's not gonna answer your questions. He asks after, "Where's Sam?" And before he answers the location, he says first, like, he communicates first what he wants to say. Like, it makes it feel like even if Dean is the one asking questions, Cas is the one in control of the conversation, and that is such an interesting and fun choice to make. Love that, truly.
C: Yeah.
G: Yeah. He's so good. And you're right, he's less of a character this episode, but still fun.
C: Yeah.
G: He was there. He looked good. [laughs] That's all that matters.
C: He served cunt.
G: He lived, served cunt, died 15 years later. Well, not 15. Just-
C: A lot of times. He dies at the end of Season 4, doesn't he?
G: Yeah. Dies a year later, 2 years later. I don't know, like, 4 years later? He dies so much. That's insane.
C: Yeah.
-
C: So, Grey, what are your thoughts on this episode?
G: Okay. So, I don't know. It was fine. When I was watching it, there were times where I got a little bit bored. But it's not too offensively boring, and I like the backstory. I like young Mary. I wish there was more John and Mary content that's more meaningful than what they served us. But I find meaning in the meaninglessness of it as well.
C: Yeah, yeah. Right, like, every time you were like, "They are saying the most generic things. And I'm reading that as like, them being young and not really understanding love," I was like, "I think Jeremy Carver might just be bad at writing romance." [both laugh]
G: No, literally, though. Literally, though.
C: But I do like, finding meeting in the meaninglessness. Yeah.
G: Yeah.
C: What I thought... This is a very important episode lore-wise. I like all the things we learned. And I liked young Mary a lot. I think you're right that there are moments when this episode is boring. Like, the concept is great, but like, I feel like as an email, [laughing] it would be about as good as it is as an episode. As long as the email included some screenshots of the nicer-looking shots and Mary's big big eyes. There's just so much- like, they never tell us how Mary explains the way them waking up like, with Samuel dead next to them. Like, I guess John probably remembers him like, snapping his neck. Is Mary fucking like, "I killed him to save you?" Like, how does she explain this away? We'll never know. And that's sad.
G: "We got attacked, and my dad-" I mean, I really don't know. Maybe, like, there's like, a memory wipe.
C: Maybe. That happens with the angels in "The Song Remains the Same." But I don't think what happens here unless the Azazel- yeah, okay, that's true. Azazel could have memory wiped it. But they are still waking up next to the corpse of her dad, and they are also going home, to her house where her mother lies dead on the kitchen floor. Like, I don't see how they're going to deal with that.
And I guess I wish that either the ending was more ambiguous so I wouldn't be so stuck on this like plot point or that we just saw how it was explained a bit more. Or that we saw how this particular thing affected John and Mary's relationship. Because it's like, this is the man that like, she has made a demon deal for, and like, for whom- Like, he said that her parents were never an option, but I feel like it does have to feel a little bit like she chose John over her parents. And like, that's interesting. Like, is there resentment there? What does that do to their relationship. I guess we'll never know.
G: Yeah. And like, I don't know.
C: She doesn't even like him that much, I think. Like, she thinks she does. But I don't think she actually does. And like, she can never break up with him now. Like, you know?
G: Yeah, that's true. You're stuck there. Once you sell- once you make a deal with a demon, you're stuck with the relationship for life.
C: Yeah, this is so House M.D. the lesbian couple that were about to break up, and then one of them gives the other one her kidney so that they can't.
G: No, for real, though.
C: Yeah.
-
G: Okay. So, Best Line/Worst Line. Shit!
C: Oh, well, best line is obvious, right? It's the thing where Mary says that she wants to get out and that she hates this life and she wants to be safe and have a family. And the worst thing possible is imagining her kids growing up like this.
G: Yeah, I suppose. I'll go with that. I'm not even gonna try [C laughs] to like, say something else. But I think my worst line is the period line. Like, just shut the fuck up.
C: Yeah. That was my worst line until I found out that he said "slut Mary," and now that is my worst line. [laughs] Spreadsheet.
G: How about spreadsheets? There wasn't any racism or homophobia I feel.
C: Yeah, not that I can recall.
G: Which is a win. Because, like, no racism is usually only reserved when there's no people of color. [laughs] But there's one!
C: Yeah! Liddy said like, a whole sentence! Good for her.
G: Yeah, and they didn't do a racism against her. I admire that, deeply.
C: Yeah. They just probably killed her off screen, which is like, normal Supernatural fare.
G: Yeah. I think for sexism, misogyny-
C: I'd give a 1, maybe?
G: Why 1? I think a 2.
C: Okay, a 2. Because of the slut Mary and the period line?
G: Slut Mary, period line, and also Deanna being such a-
C: Yeah, Deanna being such a housewife and also just the weird incest kiss, yeah.
G: I don't think, like, Deanna being a housewife is a bad thing. It's just that, like, especially given that this is like, a period piece in a way- I don't fucking know. But like, you have to think of it in like a- This is already an unconventional family, you know?
C: Right, yeah.
G: I think it's- Actually, maybe I'm retracting it. Like, I don't- Actually, I'm less offended by what her role is and more of "they just didn't give her anything."
C: Yeah.
G: Like, I understand that Samuel comes back. He becomes a future character. But they did not know that here. So why is it that the father in the hunting family, who is a hunter, gets so much of the screen time than the woman- the mother of the family, who is also a hunter. Like, she's also a hunter. And we've seen other hunter couples before. Like-
C: Right, like Tamara and Isaac, and they're very like, equally-matched.
G: Yeah, they're of equal footing, and this one feels like not that. And like, I understand that, you know, it's complicated, blah blah blah blah blah. But with Supernatural, like I said earlier, like misogyny in Supernatural is- like, the misogyny being a critic to the misogyny is like, I feel like it's giving it too much of a benefit of the doubt-type situation.
C: Yeah.
G: Yeah.
C: I agree with that statement.
G: Also, it would have just been cool to for Deal to know his namesake.
C: Yeah, that's a good point.
G: He literally was named after her.
C: Also, just, in general, [laughs] don't people care about their grandmothers more than their grandfathers most of the time?
G: No, for real, though. No, for real.
C: Yeah.
G: Do you think that's like a- because we both grew up girls, and we both grew up in like, Asian households.
C: That's true. Maybe it's not universal everyone likes their grandmother better.
G: Yeah, so.
C: Good point. I don't know.
G: Oh, shit. I accidentally clicked the IMDb page, but I didn't- it didn't load. I was able to click away before it loaded.
C: Okay, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
G: But okay, let's go on IMDb. What's your ranking? rating?
C: I mean, I think time travels cool. I feel like, people would think time travel's cool. So-
G: I feel like I think people would think time travel's cool, but like, it's one of those situations where you'd make a little mistake, and it's like, "Oh, they're doing time travel exactly like this one movie, and it's not cool that they're ripping this movie off!"
C: That's true, that's true. They do get quite mad about that.
G: Yeah. Or it's a matter of "It's time travel, and all the fallacies," blah blah blah. So I think it's cool, but like, people get up in arms about it a lot.
C: Okay. Well, hm. "Are You There God?" got an 8.5. I think this is gonna get higher than that. So I'm gonna guess an 8.7?
G: I'm gonna guess an 8.4, actually. I'm going the other direction.
C: Okay.
G: Okay, let's check. Holy shit! It's a 9.2.
C: Oh, damn. Okay.
G: Let's see what the people have been saying. "One of the better episodes." I mean, I guess.
C: Well, there's a lot of Supernatural episodes. Yes, this is in the top 50%. I agree with that.
G: Yeah, this one says, “This is one of my most disliked episodes. It doesn't fit within the show. Time travel elements poorly thought out and feels much more sci-fi than horror fantasy."
C: Hm.
G: "It is pretty obvious that the writers eventually realize their mistake as two future episodes are devoted to retconning and smoothing out the plot holes this episode introduced." "Story changes for the worst. I don't get how this episode is so highly related. The guy they picked as John Winchester was a total miscast. Aside from being a pretty boy, [laughs] he was a big wuss." [C laughs]
C: Well, wait, okay. But John was like, a big wuss before Mary died. Isn't that the point of John?
G: No, they said [dramatically] "John was manly, tough, and strong before Mary died."
C: Oh my god. No he fucking wasn't.
G: "I thought this story was better before making Mary the hunter."
C: Oh my god.
G: "As a woman, I love strong, empowered female characters like Jody and Donna. But the writers got John all wrong. [C laughing] They didn't have to make John weak and clueless." This is so funny!
C: "A strong woman would never respect a weak guy. That alone I have to knock 7 stars off the rating." This is hilarious. From 2020! From October 2020! This isn't from 2008. This is from 3 years ago.
G: This person does not understand the appeal of men who are just little guys [C laughs], who are poor little guys. Just little, little weak little guys.
C: God. This fucking sucks! Okay.
G: I mean, that's pretty much it. That's so funny. Like, when we go read reviews, we just read the ones that are negative and then like, go, "Yeah, it's fine, we're good." [C laughs] But literally, though. Like, if they're just gonna compliment Supernatural, I don't need to hear it. [laughs]
C: Yeah.
G: Yeah. And do you agree that, like, Mary being-
C: It's been three hours??
G: Yeah, we've been recording for so fucking long.
C: Okay, yeah. So what were you gonna say? [laughs]
G: Do you agree that Mary, being, you know, blah blah blah.
C: Mary being the hunter makes the story a hundred times better.
G: No, yeah for real, though.
C: The story would fucking suck if Mary wasn't the hunter.
G: Like, she comes back.
C: Yeah.
G: I feel like people ignore that. She comes back, and that story is compelling because she was a hunter.
C: Yeah.
G: So yeah, that's my hot take.
So I think that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be discussing Season 4, Episode 4: "Metamorphosis." Are we? Are we discussing-
C: Yeah.
G: Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.
C: Follow us on social media! We are on twitter at twitter.com/BeautiesPodcast and on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, and check out our merch at babp`od.redbubble.com.
G: Yeah! ou can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!
[guitar music]
-
[beep]
C: I did not know he was baby- was in "Baby" until today, so-
G: He was also baby. [C laughs] No, he was in "Baby," he like- ah, I don't know. I don't know if I should get into it here. Maybe I'll put this at the end of the episode-
C: We'll find out in like, 5 years-
G: No no no. No, I wanna tell you. I will edit this at the end of the episode. But in "Baby," Sam is having vi- you know how Season 11, like, they let Lucifer out? And there's a whole deal where Sam thinks God is speaking to him and he starts praying a lot, etc. etc., but turns out it's Lucifer?
C: Yeah.
G: In that episode, John shows up to him in a dream driving the Impala, and like, is trying to talk to him a la John Winchester, and Sam just clocks that it's not John. And "John" in quotation marks just goes like, "Yeah, I could never trick you." And Sam thinks this is a God vision. And it turns out it's Lucifer. God! Whatever the fuck they put in Season 11, I'm so looking forward to it. Like, Season 11 is so good to me.
C: Eileen's in it.
G: Eileen's in it, and also, it's so devastating. Like, it's such a sad, sad season. Like, Cas spends half the season possessed by Lucifer! It was devastating to me personally. [C laughs] It was so devastating to me. And also, like, the season ends, and like, Mary comes back- it's wild. It's a wild season.
C: Yeah.
G: Yeah. Anyway.
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Blumjuice:
Act I
seems to be on top of his blocking, never caught in an awkward placement
loose movements
Q ❤ U 🧡 E 💛 E 💚 E 💙 E 💜 E 💗 R
good and cute boy!
who does jugs better? I have an Opinion
stray mistrustful cat who really wants love
okay but why does he keep making my "this guy is really that stupid" face?
seriously, i've never watched queer eye, but I feel like this is just an ep. of queer eye
tries so hard to actually be personable
when he said "okay..." I felt that
bOps
riFFS
okay but can he actually be scary or do we just expect him to be scary?
"DEAR SWEET BOY NO" I LITERALLY SAY THIS ON A DAILY BASIS AM I BLUMJUICE I MIGHT BE
curses like a lady
(interjecting to say i have a whole new appreciation for Sophia)
(Nat's definitely talented, but i kinda feel like i'm just waiting for her to snap out of it)
super sympathetic, i wanna hug him when he's sad, baby
probably showers once or twice a month
not sure about those beats on the roof tho, little muted
"and kill 'im!" I TAKE IT BACK I TAKE IT BACK I LOVE HIM
he really is impressed, isn't he?
(Sophia and David have great dad-daughter chemistry)
oh
Oh
Act II
baby!
that beautiful sound is diegetic, you can't change my mind
these sibling dorks really spent however many days choreographing this number
OH he's using his hair to make the clones! that's cool!
Blumjuice is older brother who comes home from college for winter break all excited for all of his friends to meet his cool little sister
"foreshadowing" doesn't have quite the same effect
sounds super resigned when he talks about his mom
AW HE'S SO SAD BABY
oh, you might have to get a littel~
o-oh
ngh
i just want an official recording of Blum singing that beautiful sound reprise
(i'm sorry, i miss Rob, Barbara feels so much more like Adam's life coach here)
(who is this strange Otho? no)
oh shit our boy's nefarious
OHHHHHHHHH I LOVE SO MANY THINGS ABOUT THIS I'M VERY TEMPTED TO DO A MOMENT-BY-MOMENT BREAKDOWN HOLY SHIT
(not this Miss Tina. no.)
(somehow i wish more than usual that what i know now was an actual tango with a bigger, more colorful, busy set)
(i do have a greater appreciation for Juno here, i didn't used to like her much, but i do wish she'd been in act i)
(me? crying at the emotional catharsis? it's more likely than i thought)
he and Delia could've been such good friends wth
whooo!
oh. meh.
you're the creepy old guy!
aw c'mon man, Sexy just slapped your ass! get into it!
yes! i also do the "sOO normal"!
oooh i feel like this breakdown works better without the full voice. good on you Mr. Blum!
he's not gonna let Juno hurt Lydia like she hurt him
...oh that's where he gets it from
what a dead mom angel face with the severed leg
i really think he and Adam might have stood a chance in a different life
okay but how are his goodbyes so sincere? is it just the voice? he sounds so soft???
AAAAAAA I'VE SEEN THIS GIFSET SO MANY TIMES BUT THE LITTLE GASP HIS LITTLE GASP WHEN LYDIA HUGS HIM BAAAAAAABE
(oh yeah, late in the game, but beetleb*bes don't touch this)
awww that's not how i imagined him saying "i know that now" awWW
don't worry my love, i'll tell your story
(Charles is underrated)
(i really do love that Lydia ends the show in black again. she's the only main character who ends in the same costume she started in. look at my girl, she didn't need to change who she was, she just needed acceptance and a little life lesson 🖤)
Takeaway
he growl
he howl
he growl some more
i like growling
he's real good at it
he's a more subdued, cute boy but he doesn't dig into the melodrama of his tragic backstory
i couldn't picture him and Juno in the same scene, even though i knew fully well how it ends
but i don't think Blum is overly concerned about that because he portrays Beej as so sympathetic already
even when he's scheming he's being adorable
he's not a feral boy, he's a stray who needs love and a decent fucking meal and i love him
#swan does commentary i guess?#might do one of these for alex we'll see#beetlejuice broadway#beetlejuice bway#beetlejuice musical#beetlejuice#soft beetlejuice#angry beetlejuice#adam maitland#barbara maitland#the maitlands#lydia deetz#delia deetz#charles deetz#the deetzes#will blum#blumjuice
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A not-at-all brief commentary on BE-hind story interview.
We really got over an hour of BTS just talking about their music. They really told the media yall don’t ask the right questions so let me do it for you. Love that for them.
But honestly I am so happy that they decided to do this. Because most of the time interviewers don’t ask the right questions or it is in a situation where they have time constraints. Or the interviewer never even listened to the album in the first place (think james corden saying his favorite track on be is dynamite probs because it seemed like that was the only one he knew).
I appreciate as well that it is the members interviewing each other. They could have just as easily sat each member in a room and asked them the questions off screen. But they didn't. I think that adds such a personal element to the interview. Bts members likely know about each other’s music (even solo music) better than anyone else. So who better to talk with the members about their music than each other?
Running commentary of each interview below the cut.
JK interviews Jin
Blonde jk for the win
I lost count of how many times they shook hands please they are so annoying
Jin please don’t downplay your talents. That hurt my heart. If I could describe his voice in one word it would have been powerful. I hope that jin got to see all the praise after the fix you cover. Because he killed it in that.
I loved getting to hear the behind the scene of jin’s role in stay; I didn’t know his role in it before he talked about it.
I’m glad jin got to release abyss and put so much of his own work into it. It is also so amazing to hear how much help joon is to all of the members when it comes to lyrics and music. A talented king.
Slightly surprised there wasn't more clowning around in their interview since these two are usually so chaotic together. I thought jk would clown jin when they started talking about jin being older but he didn't. Growth.
Hobi interviews JK
Hobi looks so soft in that cardigan
Hobi right off the bat asking about the mixtape. He knows what we want.
Jk talking about how he wants to try writing songs not just about his own experiences was so interesting to hear; can’t wait to see what he comes up with in the future.
Him talking about all the different things he wants to try but it’s almost too many was very relatable. That feeling of having so many choices you don't know where to start. But that does mean that when we do get a mixtape from him it will be from varying styles of music and i am all here for that. Personally holding out for rocker jk or acoustic jk.
His favorite song to sing is euphoria; that’s so sweet it is such a gem of a song. I think I would have chosen still with you since it’s pretty different than a lot of the other songs he sings.
Hobi saying “you’re all grown up” to jk and jk saying “i'm not the old me” really hit me in the feels. Hobi and bts really did watch jk grow from a slightly awkward pre-teen to the confident man he is today. They must feel so proud of him. 23 yo jk is not a baby of bts anymore. He does what he wants. He wears what wants. He has long hair and dyes it blonde then blue just because he can. He even talked about how his voice has matured. Im glad that the members see that too and seem to be proud of the person he has became.
3 main tracks. 3 mv. 3 choreos of different styles. Yes do it jk please im begging. After seeing him dance in black swan at mma i want to see more contemporary dancing from him. And i feel like after getting still with you and stay he can write songs that would fit that vibe. I just want to see jk’s dance talent showcased more.
I don’t know if the fans could survive 3 separate jk mv. We barely survived a live performance of my time.
Tae interviews Hobi
Tae in that emerald green sweater. He looks so good. He should wear that color more
I love how serious tae is about playing the interviewer. The actor in him never sleeps.
Hobi talking about the dual meanings behind the title of Dis-ease was so cool. Fans obviously caught that it could mean multiple things. But as far as i know that was never confirmed. Now that it is I am once again impressed with the thought they put behind everything they do.
A psychological occupational disease. Your mind hobi
I think it’s so cool that hobi recorded it by himself and how he said that doing it like that allows him to grow as a producer since he has to listen and edit himself. They really just always continue to grow in their roles in music don’t they?
Hobi talking about how he would love to solve his own problems but then remembering that he is part of a team really shows how much they trust and rely on each other. So he and jimin worked on the melody of the bridge together and then joon wrote the lyrics. And now we have the most iconic bridge of all time. Still holding out for a dis-ease live performance or music video (I’m a clown I know).
And lol at tae being like call me next time dude
“I would like to share my music with everyone” -- please do
Please tae is so sweet and attentive!? “When you talked about music i noticed you had a smile on your face and i thought ‘he really loves music’”. “But personally if i had your skills I’d be showing off and be proud of myself”. Kim taehyung is the embodiment of a teddy bear
And closing it with actor tae again -- “can i get your autograph”
Jin interviews Jimin
Two seconds into the interview they are clowning each other with jin saying to talk informally. Yet as soon as jm did (and that slight smile when he did), jin is like I was talking to myself. Chaotic as expected of these two.
Jm talking about his process for music being “just go as i feel” makes so much sense for him. He is an easy going person and it makes sense that it reflects in his work style.
It’s so cool that him coming up with the melody of the dis-ease bridge was just because he was humming to himself and the producer liked it -- almost serendipitous if you will
I love when people praise jimin for his vocals. So hearing him talk about how they used his vocal in place of a female for lgo’s chorus stroked my jm bias ego
Joon is seriously the best human ever. Jimin didn’t want to bother the other members to help with christmas love but joon contacted him and helped with the lyrics anyway. Bts seriously has the most amazing leader.
“I’d like to try making an acoustic style song”. Please do it jimin. Acoustic bts is my weakness but especially acoustic jimin. Songs like promise sound so good with his singing style.
Jin shaking jimin’s pinky 😂
“I’m a little disappointed in the MC” “but you know if you looked around there is no MC like me” -- jinmin’s relationship everybody
Jimin interviews Joon
Minimoni look so cozy in their sweatshirts sitting on a plush rug.
“You know we have this youngest member”. “Oh jungkook?” “No the real youngest” “Oh seokjin. That’s a shame” -- please minimoni are so funny and joon knew immediately who jm was talking about when he said the real youngest.
“It felt like I was doing the only thing i could do” . Please let me give you a hug joon
Joon’s mind continues to amaze me. How he talked about needing the concept or key word to give “flesh” to the song was such a good way to explain how he approaches music.
“What do you mean little? You play a very big role” -- lol jimin speaking facts. I already mentioned how amazing it is that he helped jimin and jin with their individual songs. The fact that members who want help with their own music always seem to go to joon really tells you how much of an amazing and talented human being kim namjoon is. I can’t remember the context, but there was this moment that jimin (or was it hobi?) said something like “what would we do if we didn't have rm”. They are truly lucky to have him.
Release that minimoni subunit now please and thank you
Tell us what you’re working on joon don't be shy. Joon mentioned that his music is like a diary. I would love to know his thoughts expressed in music now. 2018 joon who made mono and 2021 joon are two very different people. Bts has grown so much since then.
Joon interviews Yoongi
The work colleagues! Did you know they have worked together for 10 years?
Yoongi’s fuzzy sweater. So soft
Yoongi saying he writes songs when he is bored. Lol i love him so much
It’s really interesting to hear them talk about their lyrics getting rejected. I guess we don’t hear much about that part. And lol at joon just laughing and saying he guesses he didn’t grasp tae’s intentions for b&g.
I like that this was more of a conversation than an interview. I love it when these two just sit together and talk about technical stuff that i don’t understand (like the festa interview)
Yoongi is such a good person to make music with. JK wanted to add humming to telepathy? They added humming to telepathy. I had wondered the reason why there are two different versions of the song. I prefer the longer one tbh
Yoongi wants to make an acoustic song? Hell yeah. Jimin does too. So yoongi x jimin subunit acoustic song with yoongi playing the guitar (please). Also a folk song?? Yoongi your taste i like it
I can’t wait to hear yoongi sing im so excited for him
Yoongi talking about how they made this album with no pressure and got to just do what they wanted and that it was received so well. How he wants to keep making music like that. That makes me happy. I want them to continue to get to do that. I love the big productions and concepts of their albums. But if they are happier making albums like be that do not have that then that is what i want them to do.
“Please listen to telepathy a lot” -- what yoongi wants yoongi gets. Go stream telepathy
Yoongi interviews Tae
The title of blue and grey is because tae wants to overcome that feeling. My heart.
He looked so shy talking blue and grey. I am so excited to see him get to talk about kth1 when it comes out. I could listen to him for hours.
English guide track? Release it tae
“I felt kind of proud of myself” -- you should tae
Yoongi straight up asking tae why he didn't include joon’s lyrics was interesting. It’s cool to know that tae had the kind of power to choose what he felt would fit the emotion of the song.
It doesn’t surprise me that tae feels so much pressure to make sure the tape is good before it is released. It seems like when it comes to solo work the members really do feel more pressure since they aren't sharing the burden with the others.
“Please look forward to it” -- don’t worry tae everyone is
We know from the preview that there are 13 songs potentially on the mixtape. That would be so amazing if he released it with so many songs. Tae’s voice sounds so good in so many different styles so i know that it would be so varied.
Final thoughts -- I love that they got to do this. I hope going forward they do this more for their albums. And from what the members said they enjoyed getting to be so involved in the process of making the album. It would be amazing if that continued. While a lot of their hit songs are not made fully by the members, those songs that are often have more meaning to the fans. b&g, stay, telepathy. These were songs from the members. We got to hear their actual thoughts put into these songs. I hope that bh sees how well this album did and lets that continue.
Congrats if you made it to the end!
#my thoughts#bts#ot7#kim namjoon#kim seokjin#min yoongi#jung hoseok#park jimin#kim taehyung#jeon jungkook#jinkook#hopekook#vhope#jinmin#minimoni#namgi#taegi#jikook#naabc
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Thanks to @teamhook for the updated artwork. She’s the only person I know who will provide a gift for her own gift 💝
Thanks to @motherkatereloyshipper for helping me pick Killian’s hometown in this story and for being an all around lovely person
Midnight
Chapter 2 — The Stroke
Summary: In which our heroine does what she does best
Chapter 2 of 7 on AO3
“And my imagination will feed my hungry heart,
Leave me one thing before we part”
-A Kiss to Build a Dream On, Louis Armstrong
The spot he was referring to was an out-of-the-way pub serving the greasiest onion rings in existence and a lively clientele that didn’t notice it was one o’clock in the morning and all decent people were in bed. After days of getting by on breakfast bars and the memory of what a full meal tasted like, Emma thought she had died and gone to heaven.
Melancholy tunes droned softly in the background as she demolished enough food to feed an army. The pretty waitress earned her respect when the woman didn’t even blink at her handsome companion, and she liked to think she earned it back when she ordered three of their daily specials without a trace of shame.
Ignoring the way Killian watched with an expression close to awe as she stuffed her face, she happily gulped down a cup of coffee and observed, “Nice place. Come here often?”
“Not as much as I used to,” he murmured, taking a sip of his drink. “Tell me about this man you’re hunting. Is it personal?”
“Please, don’t make me lose my appetite. Surely we can come up with something else to talk about,” she groaned around a mouthful of beef and melted cheese. He had removed his leather jacket when they entered the pub, and his black short sleeve t-shirt stretched across his biceps in a manner entirely too distracting for comfort. Their high-backed booth made it feel as though they were on an island all by themselves, the dark wood and Tiffany lamps creating a cozy cocoon while still allowing a view of the nearly deserted dance floor.
“Ah, definitely personal then. Did he insult your honor? Break your heart? Have you ever even been in love?”
It stung how quickly he was able to see through her. Did she wear her heartache like a stamp on her forehead announcing to everyone she was an idiot? Ignoring the last question, she replied, “He hurt the only person who ever cared about me out of petty revenge. Neal Cassidy broke me. Now I’m going to return the favor.”
“Chills, darling.” His tone was teasing, but she thought she saw him shudder at her words. “I guess you don’t abide the notion of turning the other cheek.”
“Not when the first hit cost me my home, my possessions, and my peace of mind.”
“So he’s the reason you haven’t eaten in days and don’t have any luggage? Sounds like a lovely chap.”
“I don’t need your commentary or your sympathy, Captain. While I appreciate your help tonight, and I definitely owe you one for the meal, I think my past is closed for further discussion. Let’s talk about you instead. What’s your story?”
“I don’t have one, love. What you see is what you get.”
“What I see is someone dodging my question. Guess I’ll have to fill in the details myself then. Let’s see…thirty-something-year-old man who lives a life of boredom and pines for more while feeling stuck in his white picket fence world. You have a decent career in a field that pays well but decided to start a side hustle to meet new people and have something to do after eight in the evening.” Gesturing with her chin toward his forearm, she continued, “Currently nursing his own broken heart over the woman who loved and left him. The only thing I can’t figure out is what part of England you’re from.”
“Well, aren’t you the perceptive one,” he answered with a self-deprecating chuckle. “Although, I would argue it’s cheating since I have my emotional baggage inked on my skin for everyone to see while you carry yours around like an invisible tumor on your soul. As far as where I’m from, a man likes to maintain a little mystery.”
“Come on! You really aren’t going to tell me anything about yourself? After I guessed all that about you?”
With an unfathomable look, he smiled softly and said, “Fine, I’m from Cambridge. Now you know all my secrets. And allow me to call your attention to how well my devious plan worked. My first evening with my side hustle, as you call it, and I’m already having a late night rendezvous with a beautiful woman. One full of food and dancing.”
“There will be no dancing, Captain. But I wouldn’t be opposed to more food.”
“Not sure where you’ll put it, love, there’s no more room on the table. But I’m game if you are. Come on, one dance, and I’ll buy you a whole pie.”
She wanted pie but not as much as she wanted to feel his arms around her. She wanted it so badly her mind raced with images of skin on skin and restless hands exploring. Then her stomach twisted at the knowledge they would say goodbye soon. They probably should have already said it, truth be told. As she debated what harm could come from giving in just this once, he extended his hand and pulled her gently from the seat. Slowly, she felt a small section of her walls crumble and gave him a reluctant smile. “One dance.”
The soft music wasn’t loud enough to allow for an appropriate selection of dance style, but she didn’t mind when he gathered her close and swayed gently in time with his soft humming. She felt his breath stir the hair around her face and realized this was a mistake. Now that she knew how it felt, it would be harder to deny herself an encore. Especially knowing tonight was a one-time thing.
“Tell me something, Swan. Do you believe in love at first sight?”
“No, I don’t believe in love at all,” she answered. Her words conveyed her deeply held conviction that poets and Hollywood movie producers invented love to make people so miserable with the lack of it, they had to seek out fictionalized versions to find some measure of happiness. Her tone, however, sounded as though she was open to being convinced otherwise.
“That’s a shame. I think you’ll miss out on a lot of what life has to offer by being so close-minded and scared.”
“If I were scared, which I’m not, I have every reason to be. One of my foster moms told me a long time ago that love wouldn’t buy me a diamond ring, and it was as easy to be in a relationship with a rich man as a poor one. Easier really. I used to think she was a witch, but now I think she had a point.”
“Bloody hell, what exactly did that man do to you?”
She felt his direct gaze like a physical thing caressing her even as his eyes flickered with disappointment. “I told you. He broke me. And my bank account.”
“Money isn’t everything, love.”
“Excuse me if I ignore advice telling me to count my non-monetary blessings from the man who picked me up in his Beamer. It may not be everything but not having it leaves you with nothing.”
“A person who needs forty dollars a day and makes forty is richer than someone who has everything and needs more.”
“Now you’re just being silly,” she said as she slipped from his arms. “And when a rainy day comes? What then?”
“I recently took up being an Uber driver in my spare time, love. I imagine I’ll make more on rainy days.”
Laughing as she looked at his endearing face under the dim light, she shook her head. “About my pie…”
—
She knew what she was doing. She lingered over the large platter containing a sampling of every type of pie the surprisingly eclectic menu had to offer. She watched him with affection as he critiqued each in turn, always saving the bites with whipped cream for her. The best parts, in other words.
She was stalling.
The night hadn’t turned out as she expected. While her main goal was unfulfilled, she couldn’t make herself think of it as a loss when her sides hurt from laughing, and her troubled heart felt at peace. It was a pity it had to end. And not because she had nowhere to go, although that was certainly the case.
Slowly they made their way back to his car, neither one speaking as the noises of the summer night buzzed in the background. She’d said a lot of goodbyes in her lifetime, eagerly in most cases, but was strangely reluctant to add this one to the list. “Well, Captain, it’s been an expensive night for you. I think you better drop me off at the nearest bus station before I cost you any more.”
“You’re always trying to bring the conversation back around to money. Get in,” he ordered as he handed her into the car.
The air in the cabin of his luxury sedan felt heavy with expectation. Neither of them spoke nor hardly moved a muscle. She considered asking him to turn on the radio but didn’t want to miss out on the last few moments of hearing his even breathing next to her. Minutes passed, and it took her a while to notice they had left Storybrooke and were heading back toward Misthaven. “How much further to the bus station?”
“We passed it several miles back. You’re going to stay at my place.”
Under normal circumstances, this would be where she prepared to kick someone’s ass, but she knew deep down, as surprising as his announcement was, she had nothing to fear from him. Well, nothing except a repeat of the broken heart fiasco that was getting harder to remember with every second spent in his company. “Oh no, I’m not. What happened to no strings and no funny business?”
“Calm down, Swan. Our deal stands. I’m working the rest of the night so you’ll have the place to yourself. Trust me, the bed in my guest room is much more comfortable than a seat at the bus station.” Without taking his eyes off the road, he reached into one of the compartments in the console and pulled out a key. “There are some shirts in the dryer if you need something to wear. Help yourself to whatever you want. If you hang around until nine, I’ll even make breakfast. If you don’t, leave the key under the Welcome mat.”
“I think you better keep your key, Captain. There are two ways this could end, and neither one is pretty.” She gave him a sidelong glance and was mildly irked to see him grinning at her.
“Only two? Please enlighten me with your power of premonition.”
Heaving a sigh of frustration, she wished he would be logical about this whole thing. Sure they had attraction in spades; the very air around them seemed to crackle with electricity whenever their eyes met. But she knew it would fade, and the only thing left then would be goodbye. Better to skip the messy part and go straight to the end. “The first is I stay and have breakfast, and it turns into the day and then another night….”
“That doesn’t sound so bad, love. And the second?”
“I leave the key under the mat, and we never see each other again.”
“Hmm, option two is decidedly less appealing. I’ll take what’s behind Door Number One, please,” he joked.
“You think so until reality sets in and you realize you’ve taken in a stray with a score to settle and not a cent to her name. It won’t be long before the sight of me in your shirts makes you cringe, and you resent having to share the couch with a woman who has nothing to give.” She would know having been in a relationship with a person who was only capable of taking, and she vowed never to do that to someone else.
“I have half a mind to hunt down this Cassidy fellow myself after seeing the hit job he did on you. Listen, Swan, the key has no strings. Breakfast is just food. Whatever happens, happens. But if you think I’m going to drop you off at a deserted bus station with only the clothes on your back, fetching as they are, you’ve got the wrong idea about me in more ways than one.”
“I’m not yours to rescue, Captain.”
“You could be,” he whispered in a voice that made her skin tingle. He tossed her a half-hearted smile, eyes stormy with the knowledge she was going to turn him down. Again.
“The fact we both want me to be is warning enough it’s a bad idea. Come on, Killian, let’s call it a night now so we can remember it fondly in the years to come.”
His jaw clenched, and she was worried he was going to fight with her sensible argument. People didn’t meet people in the middle of the road and form attachments in one night. This wasn’t a fairy tale, and she was as far from a princess as a person could get.
Although she had to admit he made a rather fine prince.
Pulling off into a nearby gas station, he turned to her and said almost threateningly, “We’re not through discussing this.”
Then he stepped out and slammed the door as the sky opened up.
—
It was a dirty trick. She knew even as she did it, but it was for his own good. For whatever reason, he felt like he needed to protect her, and she needed to save him from himself. So she waited until he walked into the convenience store and made a run for it.
That’s not to say she didn’t have a brief moment of whimsy. She couldn’t stop herself from placing a kiss on the key he had casually tossed to her as if inviting her into his home and his life wasn’t a big deal. Then she carefully placed it on the dash, grabbing the newspaper from his backseat as an afterthought, and scurried away before she was caught.
Like a rat.
Maybe Neal was exactly the kind of man she deserved.
The rain beat down in a punishing way, her makeshift umbrella getting soggy and soft under the onslaught. She was so busy looking over her shoulder, convinced he was going to search for her and half hoping he was successful, that the sudden absence of the storm took her by surprise.
“Here, miss, it’s raining cats and dogs tonight,” the sturdy doorman of the fancy establishment she was passing said as he reached out to place his umbrella over her. The burgundy awning extended to cover most of the sidewalk and, despite the late hour, classical music was drifting from the open door. Limousines lined the street, spilling well-dressed patrons as they approached the swanky club.
Before she could maneuver out of the way, she was swept into a tide of rich fish, all glammed out and ready for the party to start or continue as the case may be. She overheard one woman, whose hat was so large she had to tilt her head to make it through the door, complain, “Regina’s parties are always so dull even nature weeps.”
Deciding a boring party indoors was better than a lonely night in the rain, Emma changed her stance and walked over the threshold with her head held high like she belonged there. She noticed the plaque on the wall as she entered read The Rabbit Hole and couldn’t help but think it was aptly named. With its marble floors and curving staircase, it was no wonder this wasn’t one of the stops on the Captain’s tour of town. This place was as high-end as they came.
There was a man collecting tickets at a small side table and, with only a minute to improvise, she was glad to see the stubs were roughly the size of the photo she was toting around, one of the few remaining possessions to her name. Without a moment of regret, she turned the photo face down, relieved the love note Neal had written on the back was faded and worn, so only his faint signature was legible. Luckily, the sheer volume of people entering the place meant the employee merely took it from her without looking to confirm it was what it appeared to be.
Following the crowd into a large ballroom off to the side, she saw a black grand piano played with a precise kind of violence by a wild-haired man in a tuxedo. The room was packed to the gills, the group she straggled in with taking the last seats on the far side of the room. The audience was appreciative but far from silent, conversations carrying on as if private concerts of this caliber were a normal everyday occurrence for them. Every time Emma thought she found a place to rest her sore feet and sorer heart, someone took it before she could get there and, in one near miss, she almost flattened a lap dog that warranted his own seat for the show.
Finally, after pushing her way through a narrow row, she found a place and asked the man in the next chair with a hint of desperation, “Is this seat taken?”
Shrugging a silent negative with brooding eyes that lit up when she neared, she tried to ignore the searching glance he gave her as she dropped into the chair and surreptitiously removed her shoes. She could tell by the hint of a smirk he noticed the movement, but at least he had the good grace not to comment on it.
He was handsome in a careworn kind of way. His tousled dark hair and thick stubble were eerily similar to the Captain’s look, and it made her shuffle in her seat with guilt. The man kept staring, his light-colored eyes settling somewhere between gray and green, keenly taking in her appearance and finding it amusing if the continued presence of his smirk was any indication.
As the final notes of the concerto echoed through the room, a burst of applause started. Now that she was fed and able to sit for a few moments, Emma realized she was exhausted. It was a bone-deep weariness far beyond fatigue, and she was fairly confident it could be traced back to a man with blue eyes and more charm than any one person should be allowed to have.
She wondered where Killian was now. If he had already given up or if he was wasting more time and losing out on more money combing the streets looking for his erstwhile damsel in distress. Emma knew what she did was for the best as surely as she knew she would be haunted by the feeling of his arms wrapped around her for a long time.
After a brief break, the musician approached the piano again. Before he could start hammering out another song with the intensity of a madman, a raven-haired woman stepped in front of the instrument. She called out in a commanding voice, “Pardon the interruption but does anyone recognize this man? It would seem there was a mix-up at the ticket counter and someone accidentally handed in a photograph instead of their invitation to this private event.”
Resisting the urge to sink deeper into her chair, she furtively looked around as the audience murmured amongst themselves regarding the unusual disruption. She could tell by the sardonic tone of the woman’s voice and the way she emphasized the word private she wasn’t convinced it was an innocent mistake. A scene would be made if the guilty party were found and couldn’t provide the appropriate documentation.
“Really? No one is going to come forward?” With an annoyed look at the assembly, she sulked, “Fine, I won’t waste any more of your time.”
She saw the woman hurry to the corner and carry on a quick conversation with a few men before the group disbursed and fanned out to cover the room. Feeling her luck was running out, she slipped her feet back into her shoes with barely a wince and slowly stood under the watchful gaze of her neighbor.
She needed to escape for the second time that night, but now she had hundreds of witnesses. Nonchalantly, she surveyed the room, trying to determine the best way. During this perusal, a man caught her eye, and she froze as he began to cut across the room to her side. So much for a stealthy getaway.
Her pursuer had an air of refined boredom with an edge of mischief. His graying hair was an attractive finish to a lean, well-dressed form. Cocking an eyebrow in disdain or maybe curiosity, he spoke quietly to not draw the notice of the surrounding crowd. “A word, madam.”
“With me?”
“Indeed.”
“I was afraid you were going to say that.” Squaring her shoulders, she ignored the way her neighbor watched with rapt attention as she resolutely marched toward her fate.
@teamhook @kmomof4 @jrob64 @motherkatereloyshipper @stahlop @xarandomdreamx @xsajx @klynn-stormz
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Two-Faced Commentary
People went really big this week! There were a lot of cool tropes, novel mechanics, and a surprising number of white cards with hexproof.
@alextfish - Manifold Core
The front side of this card is a very powerful cost reduction effect, especially given that it applies to a set of cards that often don’t have any colored mana in their costs. I suspect that would often function as a combo piece in decks that don’t intend to transform it, to a degree that it overshadows the rest of the card a bit, but the overall flavor is good. The card is also very aggressive when transformed on turn 4, although that you need to four-for-one yourself to get the creature serves as a powerful check.
@bread-into-toast - Guilt-Wracked Artist
A genuinely horrifying card concept. I’m not 100% sure that I follow what the treasure represents in the story (the key?), but it’s still very unnerving.
Mechanically, the card holds together reasonably well, in that if you get the card in the graveyard the “right” way, then it’s easier to pay the disturb cost, and the mutual discard plays reasonably with a graveyard-focused strategy.
@decayingbooks - Graceful Swan
This is a great transformation trope, and a very strategy-heavy flip card. Flip cards that gain value by flipping back and forth are established design space, with Huntmaster of the Fells being the most notable, but this card adds the additional wrinkle that, once you’ve accumulated enough bird tokens, you want it to be night on your own turn to take advantage of the ability to buff your tokens. (Although both activated abilities do have value on your opponent’s turn.)
While it’s doing reasonable flavor work, the ability that makes your bird creature tokens humans may be overkill. There’s nothing wrong with trinket text, and in a set with human tribal elements it could be genuinely relevant, but the card is already fairly complicated.
@deg99 - Seraph of Salvation
The creature revealing its true demonic nature (or falling angel, but my understanding is that this is the former) trope is a good fit for a TDFC. There’s a ton packed into this card - the front side on its own is very flashy, and threatening an instant-speed Mythos of Snapdax once the card is on the field changes the way the game is played significantly. (Wrathing at instant speed is a big deal.) The mechanics of each side don’t feel all that strongly connected, but they make enough sense on their own. I like the aesthetic decision to leave the demon W/B rather than making it mono-black, as its effect is more strongly associated with white.
@dimestoretajic - Zosusk, Cruel Taskmaster
The front half of this card is extremely strong. Even at four mana, a super-Ashnod’s Altar that can go in the command zone is a scary proposition, especially given that it’s also difficult to remove and can cash itself out for a treasure if it would die. The indestructibility is arguably overkill, especially as the card can generate a lot of value even if it is removed right away.
Similarly, I’m not sure if the back half particularly needs hexproof; if you’ve got any kind of board, it generates a lot of value, and I think that on balance it’s better if that’s answerable.
The idea of a card that’s sort of a side-grade when transformed is interesting, as is the tension about whether or not to cash out your creatures if it’s going to transform, and I like that the tension is abated a bit by the fact that both halves make sense in the same deck, even though they operate differently.
@fractured-infinity - Velis, Distorted Reflection
This is a really clever twist on the Evil Twin design space. The back side is very powerful, but the effort required to get there is real and meaningful, and the front side is enough of a slightly bad deal on its own that the transformation ability isn’t just a freebie. Needing to specifically see a creature with the same name die is also fairly clever, as it means that Velis needs help to transform. (You can’t just crash Velis into whatever it’s copying.) The back side does have a pretty high level of inevitability; once you’re at six mana, you can effectively “steal” any creature your opponent plays before they can attack with it, and in Commander can be used to keep other commanders off of the field. This latter feature might make this card safer as a non-legendary creature.
@gollumni - Ral, Untapped Potential
The front half of this card makes a lot of sense as a Ral card. The sparking condition doesn’t tie directly into Ral’s own sparking story in any obvious way (he sparked when he discovered his partner was cheating on him), but it mechanically ties into what the character is about and strongly enables his fairly stiff sparking condition.
If I have a quibble with this card, it’s that you often won’t be able to productively make use of Ral the turn he flips. To do so, you’d need a fourth instant or sorcery that you can cast that turn, this time at full price, and if it’s a very cheap spell then the amount of value you’re getting is pretty modest.
@greensunzenith - Escape from the City
What I think really elevates this card above the basic idea of a Saga that transforms into a creature is that it does something with the lore counters after transforming. Unless I’m missing something, haste on Hazoret is mostly superfluous, as it will nearly always have been on the battlefield from the beginning of your turn when it transforms. (It could still matter if you double proliferate or if it changes controllers, I guess.)
@grornt - Inconspicuous Youth
This card is another fantastic choice for a transformation trope. This one does a magical girl transformation in a non-obvious but flavorful way, where the character transforms specifically in response to a major threat, and then reverts when the threat is gone. That it transforms even when the major threat is your own card feels like an acceptable flavor bend for the sake of making the card playable, and that it reverts as soon as any major threat is gone is a reasonable choice for simplicity. (It could also check for 6 MV creatures at the end of the turn.)
I went back and forth on whether I liked the back half having defender. On one hand, it allows the back half to be far bigger and scarier than if it didn’t have defender; without that, the transformed half needs to shrink or the card needs to cost more. It’s also fine flavor. On the other hand, it really gums up the board, as it’s very difficult to profitably attack into the card. Additionally, it kind of creates an “...oh” moment when reading the back.
Lastly, I think that a white creature just straight up having hexproof is a bit of a bend (although not one wholly without precedent.) The flavor helps justify it (and it’s definitely mechanically relevant), but flavor can justify a lot of things.
Despite these questions, I do really think the design is very clever, and it was one of my favorites from this week.
@helloijustreadyourpost - Marchesa, Tyrant Queen
The mirrored Abyss effects are clever together, and the flavor helps to sell the shift. The nontoken clause on the first side is doing several interesting things in terms of not only making the card a bit stronger as a control tool, but in helping enable the flip. Giving opponents a natural out on the back side helps check the overall power level of the card as well, and I think it’s a positive that any wrath is an answer for the back half in Commander. While the flavor makes sense and it certainly makes the card stronger, I could take or leave the second ability on the back.
@hiygamer - Penultimate Form
I like that this card cleverly ties the “quest” condition to something that the reverse side of the card will naturally need. I also think that the triggered ability on the back is extremely clever, in that helps make the card less tricky. Without the triggered ability on the back, there’s a not-immediately-obvious interaction where casting instant spells in response to each other allows the creature to transform with five loyalty counters on it, which is a major advantage in that the card can use its -4 ability right away and survive. Stealing a creature is extremely powerful protection for a planeswalker and strong in general. However, because a similar ability is present on the back, players don’t need to recognize that stacking instants correctly allows the planeswalker side to start with five+ loyalty counters, as you can get the same effect by just casting them in sequence.
@hypexion - Sigarda, Fallen Grace
The transform condition on this card is quite difficult, even with the amount of Eldrazi token-making available and its ability to fuel itself, but the front half is plenty strong. Large, evasive, efficient hexproof creatures are something that I think they shy away from a bit now (and white rarely gets creatures that just have unconditional hexproof), although the throwbacks to Sigarda’s first card are clear. While the back half of the card is a meaningful upgrade, the front half is strong enough that it stands on its own - many decks may not worry about flipping the card at all.
@i-am-the-one-who-wololoes - Ormendhal Weakened
Ormendhal is a potent abyss effect, and having it wait until your upkeep to trigger for all players is a good safety choice - it gives your opponents a healthy window of time to respond to it. The backside is something of a consolation prize, as in many circumstances it will operate like a basic Plains, but the flavor is interesting. I don’t totally understand the decision to allow the land to tap for colorless instead of just white; outside of an environment where colorless mana costs exist, it won’t make much of a difference, and while there have been Eldrazi on Innistrad (and Ormendahl was affected by Emrakul), the connection seems a little loose to justify what’s otherwise an unusual line of rules text.
@jsands84 - Battered Lamp
This is a really fun design. That you need another creature to “rub” the lamp is a cute piece of text, and allows for other costs on the card to be pulled down to really attractive levels
The degree of inevitability on this card (5-power, evasive, bounces any blockers your opponent has, requires either artifact destruction or instant-speed creature destruction), along with its complexity, might push it to rare, although I like that the numbers work out such that this doesn’t win the game on its own.
I’m not sure whether this is intentional, but you can effectively get “infinite wishes” by having Zephyr Djinn bounce itself when you transform it for the last time. It’s enough of a tempo hit that I don’t think it’s a power level concern, and if you’ve already made (and probably attacked with) a 5-power evasive creature twice, then there’s a good chance that you’d rather attack with the Djinn the third time than to bounce it, but I felt that it was an interaction worth pointing out.
@kellylogs - Klara, Embereth Aspirant
This is a sufficiently clean, elegant transform condition that, even though this is not an existing planeswalker character, tells a clear story. I do feel like the backside of this card could be a bit stronger; if you’ve successfully attacked alone with Klara, blockers may not be something that’s causing you problems, and in an aggressive deck a 3/2 with Exalted may be at least as powerful planeswalker side in many scenarios. (Although being able to get a 2/2 Vigilance creature right away means that you don’t fall back much in terms of board presence.)
The -7 ability in particular could probably also use a bit more juice. While it’s technically a three-turn ult, its impact disappears if Klara does, and the +2 ability required to get to it is pretty weak (especially on the turn when Klara transforms, where it will generally do nothing.)
@misterstingyjack - King Pakesh II
The two sides of this card are loosely mechanically connected (they both like it if your opponents’ creatures die, although both halves can also be fueled in other ways), but the flavor helps tie them together. I think that limiting the front half to one treasure/turn is a good decision both in that it helps keep the cost of the card down and in that the card isn’t so good that you don’t care about the back half. Both halves have unique mechanics that still feel reasonably elegant and flavorful, and I like that the card doesn’t try to do too much. This is also a cool recontextualization of Disturb in general.
@morbidlyqueerious - Niko, Quizzical Javelineer
You mentioned that this card is revised from an earlier contest where the goal was to make a card that included every letter of the alphabet, and while that shows in the card’s name, the overall package isn’t stretching or squishing tooooo much to meet that criterion. Niko offers a larger amount of repeatable scry that exceeds what’s generally printed, although needing to connect with what’s otherwise a gray ogre to get it makes it such that it’s not likely to fire too many times in one game. The flip condition is challenging enough that I think the strongish +2 ability on the reverse side is justified, especially as it will often leave Niko vulnerable. If anything, I think the reverse side could perhaps be a smidge stronger.
I’m not sure whether this is intentional or not, but I do think that it’s interesting that it’s easier to meet the card threshold for the when you’re on the draw, but easier to meet the unblocked attack condition when you’re on the play.
@naban-dean-of-irritation - Will, Stoic Cryomancer
This is a pretty clever way of handling a flip walker that represents power sets found in two different colors, and the card does a solid job of feeling like a tag team. Another cool thing about this card is that it defies the legendary rule as long as you leave both copies on different sides.
If I have a critique of the card, it’s that I do think it’s a bit difficult to reach Will’s ult, however. If you play the card on curve (turn 3), you generally can’t flip it until turn 4. From there, you need to use the +2 three times to get to 10 loyalty, which is only possible if your opponent consistently has at least two creatures. That takes you to turn 7, which means that you can use the Ult on turn 8, making it a five-turn ult (or four turns if you were able to flip Will on turn 1). The ult only does something, however, if you control another planeswalker. While the ult is not a big deal on a planeswalker that’s this flexible, I think it could be a smidge cheaper. (-9 would save you no turns on building to it, but means that you don’t need to have another walker in play to use it.)
I’m also not sure if overtly making typeless permanents is something that’s worth putting on a card, given the potential confusion. The rules can handle it, and there are ways of making it happen in-game already, but similar gameplay can be achieved in more conventional ways.
@nicolbolas96 - Ugin, Last Among Elders
This is another card where the front half is almost worth it on its own, so the relatively steep flip requirement is fine, as it serves as more of a bonus. Life gain and card draw aren’t the things I most strongly associate with Ugin, but the card draw works as a mirror of Nicol Bolas, the Ravager, and the package is sort of like a miniature version of Ugin’s ult.
This is a small thing, but I wish Ugin was a bit bigger than 3/3. I realize that the similar Nicol Bolas, the Ravager, is only a 4/4, but 3/3 feels a bit small for an Elder Dragon.
The planeswalker side is recognizably Ugin, serving as a sort of greatest-hits of his associated cards. The novel ultimate will win the game on the spot in any deck built around it, but as you spent 5+8 mana on Ugin already and upticked it three times, that’s totally fine.
@nine-effing-hells - Mysterious Ruins
It’s not totally obvious which part of the ability the Revelation ability word refers to, but overall the card tells a clear story. A land that transitions into cardflow in the late midgame and a (kinda) finisher in the late game makes a lot of sense, although opponents that are too worried about the reverse side can save a kill spell for it. A land that enters the battlefield untapped doesn’t need to do much else to be good, so the high overall investment required to flip it is a good decision. Decks that want this sort of effect will tend to be controlling decks that can make better use of the mutual draw as well.
@partlycloudy-partlyfuckoff - Tender of the Wilds
The names on this card are clever, and help tell a different story than the superficially similar Mayor of Avabruck.
This is a very strong effect; the back side in particular is both large for a 2-mana werewolf and has a very strong anthem effect. While a good fit for a werewolf deck, this card is strong enough to go almost anywhere (and the front half is slightly better in a non-werewolf deck.)
This is a minor thing, but the more common templating for abilities like the backside has is to roll the stats it provides into the creature itself (printing it as a 4/3) and then to print the ability as “Other non-human creatures you control...” However, I think the templating you’ve chosen is potentially reasonable on this card for the sake of mirroring the front half.
@piccadilly-blue - Gavony Town Hall
This is a very difficult card to evaluate, because its impact on the game can vary a ton depending on how things are ordered.
This needs to go in a token deck to do anything at all, but the day-side drawback of turning off all of your creatures is harsher than the anthem on the back is beneficial, if you’re trying for an aggro strategy. On the flip side, there’s a lot of potential to gum up the board quite a bit with indestructible hexproof tokens if you play the card after your token producers. Token strategies already sometimes gum up the board, and this creates the potential for game stalls. Your opponent can get around this by passing their turn to shift to night, but that’s a fairly major tempo loss, and it sets you up well for the crack back.
I do like that there’s some interesting things that can be done with wraths and with creating token copies of cards with powerful static effects while on the day side.
@pocketvikings - Covetous Vizier
One of two “genie of the lamp” cards this week, I believe that this card is specifically a reference to the Disney movie Aladdin. (I could be wrong about that - I’m not super familiar with genies.) This card is basically Phylactery Lich on an installment plan, although you spend more total mana and some life. Additionally, your opponent has a window of time to respond with creature removal, which is not the case for the Lich. In compensation, the front half of the card can be played profitably even if you control no artifacts. Black does, as of Midnight Hunt, apparently get 2/3 creatures with upside for 1B at higher rarities, but a 2/3 for 1B with a useful effect is already, on its own, a satisfactory creature. The first question I had with this card is why it wasn’t just a lich, but not every card needs to use the most obvious or most-established flavor for an effect - and it’s more memorable that it doesn’t.
@quillpaw - Shellcrown Phoenix
A few different phoenix cards - Everquill Phoenix and Rekindling Phoenix - have used complicated tokens to try to mimic this effect, and a few DFC cards represent hatching eggs, but this card is novel in combining them, and I think it works really well.
The one slight oddness with this card is that it’s possible to miss your chance to transform it back, if you don’t have the mana (or don’t wish to spend the mana) to flip it at the time that the last counter is removed. It’s possible to play around this by attacking with fewer creatures, but I don’t think that the card as a whole is so strong that this limitation is necessary. Additionally, due to the cost of the card and the flip condition, I feel like the game will often be over before the card can flip back, but it still has utility in getting the last bit of damage in in a gummed up board state.
@real-aspen-hours - Gathering Storm
The front half of this card is very strong, offering heavy levels of card selection at a reasonable price on a card type that’s relatively difficult to interact with. I don’t know that it’s over the top (three mana is a lot for just selection), but the card doesn’t hinge completely on
I respect the decision to use a simple transform condition. I feel like the “obvious” angle is to condition it on having a certain number of cards in your graveyard, and that’s potentially safer (the current version will, I think, sometimes be flipped with just one very strong card in your graveyard), but even that requires some building around, so it’s probably not that big of a deal. I do like giving players a decision
@reaperfromtheabyss - Wavewhisper Egret
This is a lot of card for a two-mana uncommon. The front half would be an attractive card even without the ability to transform, and the transform effect will generally scry at least 4. Blue can get 2-power fliers with upside at higher rarities on occasion, but this is certainly a very aggressively-costed version of this creature profile.
I also think the decision to flavor this as a card from Kaladesh, rather than from New Phyrexia or Alara, was an interesting one. It injects a bit of light horror into a setting that doesn’t have much of that.
@shakeszx - A Tempest Foretold
Having the saga exile itself and return transformed is an elegant way to kill two birds with one stone, dealing both with the sacrifice clause on the card and helpfully disposing of the now-irrelevant lore counters.
I’m not 100% sure how to parse the first ability on this card - I’m assuming that it’s meant to pull from your graveyard or cards you own in exile (and maybe the stack), since those are under most circumstances the only zones that will have instant and sorcery cards in them when the ability resolves that aren’t your hand, but as written it sort of reads as though you can grab cards from places like your opponent’s graveyard. The rules do intervene to stop you from putting other players’ cards into your hand, but I feel that the wording on this could be clearer.
I’m also not sure that the back side works the way we want it to. In cases of cards that exile themselves on resolution, I’m not sure that Izzuke will recognize that it’s the same card, and any other card will go to the graveyard upon resolution, where it won’t be recognized as the same card if it’s then exiled again. (The rules could maybe be altered to support this, but it’d create additional complications.) Additionally, I’m not sure that exiling your hand in order to slowly potentially get the instants and sorceries back one at a time really feels worth it; Izzuke is a good deal for four mana, but even with Ward 4, the blowout potential is pretty huge. If your opponent saves any removal for it, you’re very likely to lose.
All that said, the general concept of a saga that builds up a resource that the creature it flips into can expend is a strong one.
@snugz - Queen Bee
Assuming that you hit your land drops and that nothing happens to your drones, this card will flip after two land drops, having created seven 1/1 fliers. The reverse side will then make these fliers 2/2’s, three of which can attack right away (assuming this occurred over two turns). In most formats, this means that your opponent is going to be dead before the long-term value aspects of the card come into play. They are still relevant in Commander and as a rebuilding option if your drone army gets wrathed, and the flavor is good, however.
On the whole, the card may be a little too efficient at building a game-winning board, especially as it is hard to remove if not removed immediately. I think the card could do fewer things and still work as a card, even though all of the individual components make flavor sense.
@starch255 - Cursed Knight
There’s a lot of things I really like about this card. I like that its toughness is low compared to its power, so it will usually either kill something or die in any combat with another creature. I like that the Frog side is still a knight. This feels like a reasonably in-pie way to give white a well-above-the-curve creature, and if your opponent doesn’t have an answer or a body to throw in front of it, this puts out much larger life swings than two-mana uncommons normally ever do. Even if your opponent tosses a 1/1 in front of this, you’re still up a bit.
@whuh-oh - Masked Debutante
This card has a lot of moving pieces, but the overall package makes sense. The actual power level of the card hinges a lot on your opponent having at least three creatures already in play, but there are enough outs to it that it doesn’t feel hopeless in any case. I also like that the creatures have to actually hit you to get the counters, limiting the total amount of value you can steal. I also like that the card doesn’t have any sort of anti-sacrifice mechanism built in; it’s game-winning enough of the time as it is, and doesn’t need to have what answers do exist for it to be shut off.
I’m not 100% sure that the creature-stealing is really a red thing, but tying it to the survival of the creature helps, and in general makes the card much more fair.
@wilsonosgoodmcman - Venser, Close to Death
In inventing a new card subtype, this is the most ambitious card for this week. I also like the flavor of a doomed planeswalker having only minus abilities, and lining up the planeswalker so that it needs to die to using one of its abilities (or take damage on your turn, I guess) is a nice little minigame that isn’t trivial, but also is easy enough that you can usually expect to flip Venser if your opponent doesn’t have a substantially greater board presence than you.
The third ability on Venser should probably target only other permanents, to avoid confusion about what happens if it targets Venser, but that’s pretty minor. (I’m assuming that the intent is that it doesn’t flicker Venser.)
Even though it costs you (usually) a creature and the effort of flipping Venser, I think that the +1 on the reverse side might be a bit much. While all of the abilities are powerful, that one stands out as especially tough to beat.
@wolkemesser - Keepsafe Bear
This card tells a cool story, and I appreciate the work you did in balancing the difficulty to flip the card. At first, I sort of felt like it went a little overboard in terms of preventing you from flipping it (you basically need a wrath or for your opponent to block it or attack into it with a much larger creature), but the front half and back half are both strong enough that I think it’s okay for there to be some fairly specific hoops.
The back half does just enough, I think. There’s an alternate design for this card where the back half loses indestructible and the front half is harder to flip, and that version is probably a bit easier to print, but I think there’s a place for the higher-challenge version presented here as well.
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"Norse Mythology series" par Zorinblitzz.
I don’t follow Norse mythology but I came across this and I thought you guys might enjoy it. The quotes are from the post, and translated from French, so that’s why some of it might be off. The unquoted stuff is uneducated commentary by yours truly.
“- D ökkalfar, black elves live in the dirt and have a dark complexion.”
...this complexion isn’t dark but at least they didn’t use black face I guess. Whole thing kinda sus ngl
“- Freyja, Goddess of beauty and love, eroticism, daughter of Njord and a mother whose name is not known. She is the sister of Freyr with whom she forms a pair of parèdre. She is responsible for welcoming half of the fallen warriors into her personal hall, Folkvangr, the other half going to Odin's, Valhalla.”
Y’all never told me Freyja welcomes fallen warriors and has her own hall just like Odin?!? I’ve heard the word folkvangr maybe once. I knew there was more than one hall but not that Freyja had one, that’s bitchen. Surprised they didn’t do a picture for her sister
“- Hel, daughter of Loki, goddess of the dead without heroism.”
Nice, pretty bitchen ngl. That’s funny in the marvel movies they say “Hella” is the daughter of Odin not Loki. Hollywood lied to me 😔
“- Loki, God of fire, air of discord and sneaky, sons of giants Farbauti and Laufey. It's a trouble sower that could change shape. He plotted to kill Baldr and was mercilessly punished for this crime.”
I had no idea Loki was the god of fire. This depiction reminds me of Artemis
“- Mani, God of the moon, brother of S ól. He is being chased by the Hati wolf.”
That’s so cool because most personifications of the moon are feminine. I do remember tumblr telling me about the sun and moon being chased by the wolf. The wolf belongs to Hel, right? And when it catches them that’s the start of ragnorök. I genuinely don’t know sorry
“- Sif, Goddess of grain, wife of Thor, mother of goddess Thr ùd and sometimes of gods Modi and Magni. Mother of Ull from previous union. She has a golden hair (that Loki will cut her off) and represents fertility. She has the ability to take the form of a swan and would have the gift of prophecy.”
Thor had a wife?!
“- Skadi, Wife of Ull and former Woman of Njord, the god of the sea. She never agreed to live with her spouse. She is a giant of J ötunheim, mother-in-law of Vanes Freyr and Freyja, but is still considered an Ase.”
I have no idea if Ase is a mistranslation or not but why does this person look like a pretty snow princess
“- Sol, Sun Goddess, M áni's sister. She is being chased permanently by the wolf Sköll.”
Again, cool because most interpretations of the sun are masculine
“- Sutr, Fire Giant, King of Muspellheim. A co-creator of the 9 worlds, he will destroy them using his sword of fire at the end of Ragnar ök.”
Neat, would have made hair bright red though ngl
“- Vidar, son of Odin and giant Grid, called for revenge for his father's death during the Ragnar ök.”
Wait, that makes him a brother to Thor and Loki right?
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Chapter 55: Movie Night
Lots of quotes from the movie Lilo & Stitch ahead! Fewer quotes, but some, from Trolls and Frozen.
Bold italics are trollish, ~tildes~ indicate goblin.
Content warnings for this chapter: Swearing. Here we reach the story's first F-bomb.
Also, there is some talk between characters about the harshness of life in the Darklands, how Changelings are treated by the Gumm-Gumms, and mentions of cannibalism.
This was supposed to be a light-happy chapter that got feels-y at the end, but then it went and got all dark on me.
Oh, also-also, (Not) Enrique finds out Claire flirted with Jim a while ago and misinterprets what exactly happened between them, but that gets cleared up fast.
Becoming The Mask
Once again, Javier and Ophelia Nuñez were out for the evening, leaving Claire in charge of Enrique. Claire had gotten permission to invite "some friends" over to watch movies. Jim and Toby arrived to find Mary and Darci already there – Jim suspected, like the time he'd 'babysat', that Claire had purposefully asked him to arrive after she knew her parents would be gone.
They set up piles of cushions and blankets on the floor between the couch and the TV. Jim propped the Amulet up on the coffee table they'd pushed to one side. Maybe some of the ghost Trollhunters would be interested in human movies.
"Finally get your fill of the touchy-feelies?" Enrique teased Jim, seeing how they were all seated separately. Jim snorted.
"Not hardly." He pulled the smaller Changeling in for a hug. "Humans just have different rules about casual touching, is all. Freezing to death's not really a concern in this climate."
"Wait, what?" said Toby, dropping the pillow he'd been holding. Jim looked up to see all the humans staring at him.
"Darklands thing," said Enrique easily. "Gets cold there."
"We'd sleep in piles," Jim explained. "I had a bit of a reputation for being … clingy."
"If you weren't good at finding food and soft stuff, we'd never've put up with ya." Enrique proved himself a liar by climbing onto Jim's shoulders instead of jumping back to the floor. He fluffed the hair on Jim's scalp. "Jimmy-boy got his first nickname for that."
"Shut up," said Jim playfully. "Anyway, humans get weird about touching around puberty. I can still hug Mom whenever I want, but Toby gets embarrassed if I hug him around other people, and Claire, Mary, and Darci haven't given me permission to touch them casually yet."
"… Did you … want permission?" asked Claire. "You, kinda, said you were uncomfortable with that, I thought."
"No, it was more wondering if you were flirting with me that felt weird," Jim assured her. "After that conversation I felt like it'd be awkward to bring up that I was open to hugging and such."
Jim thought he felt Enrique growl, to quietly to properly hear. His hand, still in Jim's hair, changed position so the tips of Enrique's claws were on Jim's scalp.
"When exactly did this happen?" Enrique asked.
"Claire kissed Jim on the cheek on his birthday and then Jim said he wasn't interested in dating her," said Mary.
"Also that I realized she might not have meant it in a flirty way and if I was misinterpreting things she could ignore what I was saying," Jim added. The claws retreated.
Claire looked away. "So what movie did we want to start with?"
"Lilo & Stitch!" exclaimed Darci, looking through the shelves. "I haven't watched this in forever!"
"That's a good one." Jim tilted his head to get Enrique back in his peripheral vision. "Enrique, have you seen it yet?"
"… Yeah."
"Isn't that the one that always makes you cry?" asked Toby.
"It's beautiful. Of course I cry."
Stitch was a constructed 'abomination', who shapeshifted to blend in, and his adopted family found out what he truly was and still wanted him. How could Jim be expected to keep his composure in the face of that?
"So, quick question," said Jim. "Is talking during the movie a crime, or is commentary what makes it a group activity?"
"Commentary," said all three girls together.
"Okay, good." Jim and Toby usually talked during movies, unless one or both of them were seeing it for the first time. Sometimes even then.
+=+
"Not guilty! My experiments are only theoretical, and completely within legal boundaries."
"We believe you actually created something."
"Created something? Ha! But that would be irresponsible, and, unethical. I would never, ever – make more than one."
"What is that monstrosity?"
"Monstrosity?! What you see before you is the first of a new species!"
"You have to wonder if she and Merlin ever had a talk like this," Enrique muttered in Jim's ear. Jim snickered.
"And as for that abomination … it is the flawed product of a deranged mind. It has no place among us."
Jim stopped laughing and cringed. He loved this movie a lot, but some of it stung.
+=+
"A quiet capture would require an understanding of 626 that we do not possess! Who, then, Mr Pleakley, would you send for his extraction?"
"… Does he have a brother? Close grandmother, perhaps?"
"Fun fact," said Darci, "in early drafts Stitch was a career criminal and Jumba was an old accomplice."
"Friendly cousin? Neighbour with a beard?"
+=+
"Surely the teacher won't notice I was late if he doesn't see me come in!" Claire narrated sarcastically.
+=+
"I'm sorry, Scrump!" Mary wailed, as Lilo ran back to retrieve the doll she'd angrily thrown aside.
+=+
"Let me illuminate to you the precarious situation in which you have found yourself. I am the one they call when things go wrong. And things have indeed gone wrong."
"As a cook, that kitchen horrifies me," said Jim.
+=+
"If you promise not to fight anymore, I promise not to yell at you – except on special occasions."
"Tuesdays and bank holidays would be good."
The entire group cracked up.
"How does kid Lilo's age even know what a bank holiday is?" said Claire. "I don't even know what a bank holiday is!"
"Maybe she saw it printed on a calendar?" said Toby.
+=+
A raindrop fell on Stitch's head. He fired his ray gun into the sky. It started raining, hard.
"Oh, no, I broke the sky!" Darci cried.
+=+
"Does it have to be this dog?"
"He survived getting hit by a truck, how much more sturdy and not-gonna-die do you want?" asked Jim.
"Yes. He's good. I can tell."
+=+
"I'm sorry I bit you. And pulled your hair. And punched you in the face."
Mary nudged Claire. "Remind you of anyone?"
Like sunflowers, everyone else popped up and turned towards them.
Claire blushed. "We got into a fight in first grade and for like two days we decided we didn't want to be friends anymore, then our moms made us say sorry."
"He will be irresistibly drawn to large cities, where he will back up sewers, reverse street signs, and steal everyone's left shoe."
"It's weird they get in trouble for everything but this," commented Enrique. "Human grown ups might not believe a dog stole a trike, but wouldn't they think Lilo did it? She's fought the other kid before."
"It's nice to live on an island with no large cities."
+=+
"It's not an angel, Lilo, I don't even think it's a dog!"
"Isn't that the rolling thing Draal can do?" said Toby.
"Yeah, more or less," said Jim. "I mean, I don't think Draal bites his feet – but maybe that's the trick."
"At least with those stick legs you've got," said Enrique. He curled into a ball and rolled in a circle around the group. "Face it, you're out of proportion for this move."
+=+
"626 was designed to be a monster. But now, there is nothing to destroy. You see, I never gave him a greater purpose. What must it be like, to have nothing? Not even memories to visit, in the middle of the night?"
"Now, this next bit I don't care for," said Jim. "The Ugly Duckling is a messed-up story."
"What've you got against The Ugly Duckling?" asked Mary.
"The blatant segregationist propaganda? 'A swan will never fit in with ducks and everyone is better off sticking with their own kind'. You don't even have to read it as a race metaphor. Between that and The Little Mermaid, I thought for while that Hans Christian Anderson was a Changeling writing cautionary tales about why we shouldn't get attached to humans."
"… Was he?" asked Claire.
"Probably not. I couldn't find any real evidence and the rest of his work doesn't match the pattern."
"Counterpoint," said Darci. "The Ugly Duckling is pro-integration. Everyone thought he was an ugly duckling because they didn't know what swans look like. If he'd grown up with ducks and swans around, they could've judged him for what he was instead of what he couldn't measure up to, and he might've had a happy childhood instead of only finding a community that accepted him as an adult."
Jim considered this, and nodded. "I guess I can see that, too."
+=+
"Heard you lost your job."
"Well, uh, actually, I just quit. That job. Because, you know, the hours are just not conducive to the challenges of raising a child –"
"Nani, no!" Jim begged. "I know almost nothing about Social Services but I'm pretty sure choosing to leave your only source of income looks worse to them than just losing it!"
"Thus far you have been adrift in the sheltered harbour of my patience; but I cannot ignore you being jobless. Do I make myself clear?"
"Perfectly."
"And next time I see this dog, I expect it to be a model citizen. Capiche?"
"Uh … yes?"
"New job. Model citizen. Good day."
+=+
"So, we saw Cobra on the beach after all the tourists got scared off … D'you think he was just standing there watching them the whole time?" Mary wondered out loud after the surfing sequence.
+=+
"Until we meet again …"
Lilo was about to tell Stitch about her parents. Without thinking, Jim grabbed the remote – on the coffee table, next to the amulet – to fast forward.
"What are you doing?" Darci cried. "This is one of the big emotional turning points of the film!"
Jim paused it. "Sorry. Uh … Tobes and I usually skip this scene."
"I think I can handle it," Toby assured Jim. To the girls and Enrique, he explained, "My parents died in a storm when I was two. A cruise ship, not a car accident. I got kind of upset the first time we watched this as kids, and, we got in the habit fast forwarding this part. I think I'm okay with it now."
"You're sure?" asked Jim.
"I'm sure."
"Okay …" He rewound to the point where he'd started fast forwarding.
"That's us before. It was rainy, and they went for a drive. What happened to yours?"
Jim watched Toby more than the movie for the next few minutes.
"I'll remember you, though. I remember everyone that leaves."
"Do you remember them?" Claire asked quietly.
"Only the stuff Nana tells me." Toby shrugged, and readjusted the cushions he'd propped up his arms on. "I've seen lots of pictures. A couple home movies."
+=+
"Don't run. Don't make me shoot you. You were expensive. Yes, yes, that's it, come quietly."
"I'm … waiting."
"For what?"
"Family."
"Ah. You don't have one. I made you."
"Maybe … I could –"
"You were built to destroy. You can never belong."
Jim blinked fast to keep the tears back. He sniffed, and pulled the blankets more tightly around him.
+=+
"Okay, talk! I know you had something to do with this, now where's Lilo? Talk! I know you can."
"Claire?" said Mary. "You okay?"
Jim looked over. Claire's jaw was clenched, and her hands were tight on the blanket, and her eyes were huge and fixed on the screen, and she was shaking.
"Ah … maybe the little sib getting snatched by otherworldly forces wasn't the best movie choice," Enrique said. He reached out like he was about to go to Claire, then pulled back his hand and hunkered down where he was.
"LILO! She's a little girl this big, she has black hair and brown eyes, and she hangs around with that THING!"
"I'm. Fine," Claire insisted.
"You're sure?"
"We can just fast forward."
"I said I'm fine!"
"Okay …"
Mary and Darci each scooted their blanket and cushion piles closer to Claire's, bracketing her on either side. Jim tactfully retreated to the Nuñezes kitchen to microwave a few more bags of popcorn. Enrique went with him. They could still hear the TV.
"What? After all you put me through, you expect me to help you just like that? Just like that?!"
"Ih."
"Fine."
"Fine? You're doing what he says?"
"Ah, he is very persuasive."
"Is it normal to feel bad for her?" Enrique asked.
"I think so? It's an awkward situation for both of you." Jim selected the white cheddar flavour. "But it's not like there's an alternative. You're not a polymorph. And really, the only reason she's upset is because she found out."
The Nuñezes had the same microwave as the Lakes. Jim didn't find the popcorn setting especially useful for this brand of popcorn – it tended to burn a third of the kernels– so he used the timer instead.
"I never apologized to you for that, did I?" Jim asked.
"It wasn't all your fault."
"Still, I'm sorry for my part in getting you caught."
The Changelings got back to the living room in time to see the unfortunate tourist lose his ice cream for the third time.
+=+
"Does Stitch have to go in the ship?"
"Yes."
"Can Stitch say goodbye?"
"… Yes."
Like he always did during this scene, Jim cried. He let himself do it this time.
+=+
"Wait, how is Little Mermaid a cautionary tale?" asked Enrique during the credits. The camera panned over a photo of Stitch reading to a flock of ducklings. "For getting attached, I mean. I thought the moral of that one was to control yer temper and be careful who you made deals with?"
"Sure, the Disney version," said Jim. "They adapted it to make a more dramatic, less depressing story. And give the characters names. In the older version, the sea witch is actually a neutral character. The terms of the mermaid's transformation are that she's traded her tongue for legs, but walking on land hurts, and she'll become fully human if the prince marries her, but if he marries anybody else, she'll die."
"That doesn't sound neutral."
"Wait for it. The prince gets engaged to a human princess, so the mermaid's older sisters trade their hair to the sea witch for a magic knife and a loophole; if the little mermaid kills the prince before the wedding, she can turn back into a mermaid and survive."
"Kay, I see it now."
"Except she doesn't go through with the kill, so she dies, and because she wasn't really human, she doesn't have a proper soul, so her spirit's not allowed to go to Heaven."
"… Whoa."
"I know, right?"
"I mean," Mary commented, "not murdering somebody is kind of a low bar for moral decency. It's not as if the prince owed her anything just because she was attracted to him."
"No, no, whether the prince deserved to die or not is irrelevant," said Jim. "The point is that the mermaid had a chance to, objectively, trade one life for another, and because she was attached to the particular person she'd have to kill, she didn't prioritize her own survival, and therefore suffered."
"Wouldn't the guilt of murder have caused suffering anyway?" Toby pointed out.
"Not if she wasn't attached," Jim insisted. How were they not getting this? "If she could've just cut the throat of any random human, she'd've been fine. The moral of the story is that caring about people causes pain. That's what makes it depressing."
"Do you like any fairy tales?" asked Darci.
"Sure. Just not most of Anderson's work."
"What should we watch next?" said Claire hospitably. "If we're on a 'sister movies' theme, I've got Frozen."
"Isn't that one also based on an Anderson fairy tale?" said Mary.
"Not really," said Jim. "The Snow Queen was more 'inspiration' than 'source material'. Elsa never kidnaps anyone, and they left out the broken enchanted mirror. Plus it's fun to see all the different ways humans think trolls are like."
"We also have the Trolls movie," said Claire. "I haven't watched it yet. My dad got it for Mom's birthday because she used to collect the dolls."
"I haven't seen that one yet, either," Darci commented.
"Should we?" said Mary. "Any other votes?"
"I'm game for whatever," said Toby. "This one's a musical, right? Those are always fun."
Jim squirmed.
He hadn't watched this movie despite his curiosity, after an online clip of the opening had explained the premise. Getting eaten alive was his greatest fear. Did he want to watch a movie about trolls narrowly avoiding being eaten? Did he want to explain why he didn't want to watch it?
While he debated, the movie got put in.
"Once upon a time, in a happy forest, in the happiest tree, lived the happiest creatures the world has ever known: the trolls. They loved nothing more than to sing, and dance, and hug, and dance and hug and sing and dance and sing and hug –"
Enrique started laughing.
Oh, shit, Jim hadn't warned him.
"Uh, Enrique –"
"Ssh! This is ridiculous. I mean, the huggy bit's kind of like you, but the rest of it – ha!"
"But then one day, the trolls were discovered by – a Bergen!"
"The trolls are gonna –"
"Ji-im! Spoilers!" Toby hissed.
"They were the most miserable creatures in all the land."
Jim grabbed Enrique and covered his eyes. The smaller Changeling yelped and squirmed. Jim switched forms so his fingers wouldn't bleed from the clawing.
Enrique got his eyes uncovered just in time to see the Bergen flick a troll into its mouth.
The onscreen troll's exclamation of "Oh my god!" was drowned out by Enrique's much more lurid cursing.
"What the –?" The girls and Toby all turned to stare. Claire pointed at Enrique accusingly. "I knew that didn't mean 'I'm sorry'!"
"The hell kinda movie is this?! Why would you watch this?!" He twisted to look at Jim, who let go of him rather than risk yanking his scruff by accident. "You knew?!"
"I saw a bit of it on the internet when it first came out. That's why I froze up when Claire suggested it."
That … that was the wrong thing to say. Enrique rounded on Claire. A techno-rock cover of In The Hall Of The Mountain King boomed from the movie soundtrack.
"Why in FUCK'S NAME would you think we'd WANT to watch trolls get EATEN? Is this some kind of threat?"
"How the fuck would it be a threat?" Claire shot back, stealing some cushions from Mary to prop herself up taller without getting out of her blanket cocoon.
"Most Changelings –" Jim started to say.
"DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY TIMES I'VE ALMOST BEEN EATEN?" Enrique roared. "I DON'T! CAUSE IT'S A LOT!"
"We've all had close calls," Jim finished. "Nyarlagroths, Hellheetis, goblins if you catch them in the wrong mood, Gruesomes if you're already hurt, Stalklings, and it's a … popular threat from Gumm-Gumms."
"You forgot the sloorbeasts," said Enrique bitterly.
"Nobody's gotten lichen patches that bad." At least, they hadn't when Jim got out. "Have they?"
"Still counts."
"Uh, excuse me." Toby raised his hand. "I think I speak for us all when I say, what?"
"The Darklands are a hostile environment with predators and scavengers," explained Jim. "That's the other reason we slept in groups."
"Bigger targets, but we could have lookouts."
"Okay, that's its own kind of horrifying, but I was more reacting to the cannibalism?"
"Changelings don't count as real trolls," Enrique said sarcastically. "We're Impure."
He left out the part where they'd eaten their own dead. Jim didn't add it.
(It wasn't like they'd hunted each other for food. Sometimes a Changeling just died, somehow, in a way that didn't get them eaten by something else, and … well, food was scarce in the Darklands. They couldn't afford to be picky.
It also paid to keep watch over the sentry posts. Gunmar occasionally used the Decimaar Blade to post a sentry and then forgot to order them to rest and eat. Once they died, the average adult Gumm-Gumm was a meal for twenty Changelings, easily, if they could get to the body before the Gruesomes did.)
"Okay, we're switching to Frozen." Mary made the executive decision. "Wait," she said, while exchanging the disks. "If Changelings aren't trolls, how does Jim's adoption work?"
Because of course this was the perfect moment to tell Enrique about that, right in the middle of a squabble with his adopted sister.
"For one thing, most of Trollmarket still thinks I'm human." Jim switched back to human shape to illustrate the point.
"You got adopted?"
"AAARRRGGHH and Blinky thought I should have legal standing in Trollmarket outside of my job."
Enrique stared at him. Green diamond-shaped ears were pinned back. Buggy, slit-pupil eyes were wide and hurt.
"You get everything," he grumbled. "Two nicknames, and the goblins liked you, and you could always find food, and here you're the boss's favourite even when you're a traitor, and your human family still likes you, and now you get a troll family too? S'not fair."
"Hey, the goblins liked you, too." Jim was fully aware that wasn't much comfort compared to all the rest of it. "They gave you your nickname, remember?"
"They gave you one, too."
"Yeah, but you got yours first."
They probably weren't supposed to hear Darci when she muttered, "I feel like we're missing a lot of context."
"Shit," Claire muttered back. "Not Enrique told me a bit of the name part. They don't remember their names from before they were Changelings, and they don't get real names until they have Familiars, so they use nicknames instead. From each other or from goblins, he said."
"They don't get names?" Darci's voice went squeaky at the end of that.
"We're trying to come up with something other than 'Enrique' for him."
"You're trying," Enrique corrected. Darci squeaked again.
"Can we maybe circle back to the cannibalism thing?" said Toby. "That feels like the kind of trauma that should get unpacked at some point."
"I would rather leave it packed," said Jim.
"The way you blurted it out like that feels like you need to talk about it."
"Not all psychology is Freudian, Tobes."
"Do your parents still have baby name books from when they were picking Enrique's name?" Mary asked Claire. "Real Enrique, I mean."
"They didn't use one. He was named after our abuelo."
"Okay, so what about your other grandfather? What was his name?"
"Jose María." Defensively, "It's gender neutral in Spanish."
On the television screen, the movie menu finished another loop and started again.
"I tried spelling my name like it sounds, en are ee kay, but Claire said it spelled 'Nrek'. You get why I couldn't use that."
Jim laughed.
"What's funny?" asked Toby. "Is that an insult or something?"
"No, it's goblin, in English it means 'bottle'," Jim translated. "Or possibly 'container of food'." The only bottles he's seen them use held formula for the Familiars, and the word hadn't come up on the surface, so the distinction was unclear. "It's either a silly name or a really morbid one."
"Aaand we're back to the cannibalism."
"No we are not!"
"Na na na heyana, Hahiyaha naha …"
Either somebody had decided to start the movie, or the DVD had that feature where it automatically began playing if nothing was selected after a few loops of the menu.
The conversation went in circles a couple more times, then faded out.
+=+
"And who's the funky-looking donkey over there?"
"That's Sven."
"Uh-huh; and who's the reindeer?"
"… Sven."
"Oh, they're – ? Oh! Okay! Makes things easier for me."
"~Riot~," said Enrique.
"Huh?"
"My nickname. Before. It meant 'riot'."
What are you doing? Jim wanted to demand. Was Enrique just – just giving up on a real name?
"You can call me that for now. Till we work out a for-real one. Better than 'Not Enrique'."
Jim stuffed some burnt popcorn kernels into his mouth to keep from protesting. He couldn't undermine Enrique's – Riot's – chosen name, right in front of a bunch of humans, when he'd been arguing with them about how rude that was for weeks now.
"Oh. Okay." Claire half-smiled. "Riot."
Jim shut his eyes to hide the flaring glow.
+=+
Previous Chapter (Angor Rot gets treated much better, and more sensibly, than in canon, and is correspondingly less vengeful)
Table of Contents
Next Chapter (Featuring either Otto or Gatto)
A quick thank you to Taycin on AO3 for providing some name-gender context when this chapter first went up.
#Becoming The Mask chapters#Trollhunters#Tales of Arcadia#Changeling Jim#My Fanfiction#Not Enrique#Claire Nuñez#Tobias Domzalski#Mary Wang#Darci Scott#hug#Monday is fanfic day!#caution: contains swearing#tw: cannibalism#Changelings#backstory#names#movies#Lilo and Stitch#Trolls (movie)#frozen
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The Masked Singer: S6 E1 (Season Premiere Part 1) Running Commentary
It’s baaaaaacccccccckkkkkkkkkkk! The Masked Singer Season 6 is finally here! I have only made one guess thus far (the Queen of Hearts, who is the only mask I’ve heard sing prior to tonight’s premiere), but it can and probably will change as we start to see more clues.
If this is your first time reading one of these commentaries of mine, I basically just write out my thoughts as I watch the performances and place my guesses for the week in bold. Sometimes I’m right, sometimes I’m very wrong. I always post these before I see the unmasking in each episode so do not take these to be spoilers! Who’s ready? I am!
Skunk 🦨: Train, pink handbag, a vase with a D on it (D-vase, Divas?). Her tone sounds like she’s an R&B singer. Just going by the sound of her voice, my first guess is Monica. (I have previously guessed Monica as the Night Angel, who ended up being Kandi Buruss.) But I realistically need more clues to get an idea of who she is.
Octopus 🐙: 8 is a lucky number for him. Ego, alphabet. Voice is not sticking out to me. He sounds like he’s a bit older. Maybe not a full-time singer, but an entertainer or actor, maybe? But he’s tall and could be an NBA player? The guess that makes the most sense to me that it’s Dwight Howard. I’m very familiar with him from his years with the Orlando Magic, and he actually does sound a bit older than he actually is when he talks.
Pufferfish 🐡: OMG, there’s a pufferfish 🐡 emoji! 😁 The guitar reads guitarra, which is the Spanish word for guitar. Maybe was a late bloomer or an ugly duckling-turned-swan? The guitarra clue has me thinking she’s Latina, and not necessarily a pro singer. I think my first guess is Eva Longoria.
Mother Nature 🌬: Penny, Bird, Wayne Brady? While I don’t know if she sings, her tone reminds me of the speaking voice of Vivica A. Fox. She has said that she regrets not having children. And I think the Wayne Brady clue (who was the Fox 🦊 in season 2) seems to indicate that this is Vivica A. Fox. As for the penny (or cent), I seem to remember Vivica at one point dated the rapper 50 Cent.
Bull 🐮: Map says “Cooperstown”, home of the Baseball Hall of Fame. Also talks about being in Hollywood and there was also a toy lion. My gut is saying that this maybe started off as a baseball player, but ended up going into entertainment. He’s got a really good singing voice, but my mind is drawing blanks. I am absolutely drawing a blank here. I have no guess at this time.
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So I just had a thought, Dream was talking about how his fans are predominantly teen girls so I was wondering if he's posted about this anywhere?
I was watching 'how much I got paid for 4 viral videos' and bad says how all the minecraft YouTube generally have an 80-20% split boys to girls, which should apply to Dream aswell, so I wonder if his other platforms skew differently.
This is why I also think it's disingenuous to say I'm being attacked by 18mil juggernaut, those 18 mil do not translate to fans, I think his twitter follower count is much more accurate to what his fanbase is. Like I'm subscribed to Pewdiepie and watch his videos, would I say I'm a fan? No.
I think people get very caught up in the numbers, John Swan has 20k followers is a percentage of that following telling you to kill yourself not matter? Because there's no doubt in my mind people are just as bad in Dreams dms.
It just feels icky to me that all these commentary channels can spew whatever hate they like at bigger platforms and if they defend themselves it's just them releasing their crazed stans.
Sorry for the ramble, feel free to ignore this, it got away from me a bit -👸
nah i totally get you! for dream i do feel like he’s potentially got a bigger split of girls compared to boys, unless he’s got a large male following that isn’t that active on any social medias and is just a part of his subscribers on youtube. i don’t know much about the statistics but i guess i just go off based on what i see on twitter/tumblr/tiktok/etc and i see predominantly girls.
and you’re totally right, him having 18 mil subscribers does not mean he has 18 mil fans. no number on any platform is an accurate representation of a fan because in essence, you have to think that the definition of a fan can be different to different people. someone who just watches his videos on youtube when he uploads may consider themselves a fan, or like you’ve said about pewdiepie - they don’t consider themselves a fan.
his twitter fanbase is definitely a better representation since he’s got a lot more personal content on there, but there’s also quite a few followers who aren’t fans in particular, but follow him for promo stuff, for algorithm, for updates on collabs perhaps, things like that. like if we’re talking genuinely active fans, dreamhangout might be the best representation. it’s the one account where i feel is only followed by his friends and by genuine fans
but people like john swan don’t care. they get like 1 or 2 hate messages and immediately victimise themselves and claim the entirely 18 mil of fans is attacking him. honestly people who have sent him hate aren’t even fans anyway, because dream himself has said if you ever send hate on his behalf, he does not consider you a fan nor a member of his community. so it’s mostly either anti’s, or ‘fans’ who have no respect for dream
no worries at all i love rambling just as much haha! thank you for the ask <3
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[Submission] It's that time again, lol.
Time for some more juicy recommendations. Happy New Year everyone! Same format, but now with everyone plus Gavin, lol. Since there are a lot, you can feel free to just release this out to all the fellow producers or choose however many songs you wish to listen to and offer commentary on.
Gavin
Flower - Johnny Stimson (The intimacy of this also fits Victor.)
> Such a chill song! I added it to my playlist the moment I heard the starting notes~
> (。- ω -) “You’re the best part of my life.”
Hearts Burst Into Fire - Bullet For My Valentine
> Wow the mood is a complete 180° turn from the previous song
> This makes me think of Gavin returning to Loveland City after years of training in the academy hnnghh
> “I’ve been gone for far too long! Do you remember me at all?”
Liberated - NIve
> I love these quiet songs ♡
> This song suits Kiro too: “If you want I’ll be your light till you find the one within you”
Suave - Andy Leon (this seems like the sort of song Gavin would duet with the producer, lol.)
> Such a cute song T^T Imagine if he sings the Spanish stanzas LOL *nosebleeds*
Ai no Scenario - CHICO with Honeyworks w/ EN subs (This one is sweet, lol.) Link: https://youtu.be/5nhTrP9iZNA)
> The very first line: In an unwavering justice that’s deceiving the world, I’ll unleash the truth in this hand” T^T
> “I’ll open my eyes and rid my weakness” T^T
> “Even if it comes to have turned the world into my enemy, have faith only in me and our future.” T^T
-
Rock-ish Shaw songs (though some fit with Helios)
Bad Shivers - Twin Wild
> ROCKISH INDEED
> Very sexy too :>
> “Drinking with you now is dangerous. One too many makes me say things”
> Ugh now I really want Shaw to sing in MLQC more than ever T-T
Moshpit - Bohnes
> This song gives me images of Shaw’s life before he met MC HAHA
> “All these empty faces are so basic, I can’t take it”
-
Victor
産声 - Omoinotake w/ EN and JP subs (apparently this is pronounced ubugoe, but I’m not completely clear on what it means. The song kind of fits though, lol, like a rediscovery of the self as time continues moving forward.) Link: https://youtu.be/cwC7u-XdpLM
> Wholesome! The song does trace the emotional growth of Victor <3
> “I’m the only person I cannot fool”
> “Let the quickening of my emotions be in sync with my feet to step out”
> “I want to connect with you with a naked mind”
New Perspective - Panic! At the Disco
> Hmmmm I don’t really see a connection between this and Victor :<
-
Lucien/Ares
Ocean (Stripped Acoustic) - Andreas Moe (The title and the general tone are very gentle, befitting of the beloved professor. The feelings conveyed in this song probably speak more of his heart than anything he’d say to the producer, like those many internal monologues he has. You can tell there’s a tinge of regret at the end too.) Link: https://youtu.be/CLgWwbG_upk
> “The truth won’t keep you away from me” <3
Ikanaide/Don’t Go - Kaai Yuki and the cover is by Fagagie (It’s quite sad, yeah. Some of this applies to Victor too, I think.) Link: https://youtu.be/goErct9Jowg
> ANGST
> This suits the situation where MC ends up with one of the guys and the rest are just…
> “The way home is dark, but I guess I’ll be okay by myself”
> “Don’t go.”
-
Kiro/Helios
Good Love Your Love - DEEP SQUAD w/ EN and JP subs (This one says it all, lol.) Link: https://youtu.be/2aaUQuXyuCA
> I love the cheery vibe! ( ´ ▽ ` )
> “Since I fell in love, my days have been and will always be precious”
> “Even a little argument is dazzling” HAHA this reminds me of the Mini House story where they get into a tiny fight over them sleeping in separate rooms ♡
> “I want to protect your precious smile” T^T HE DID.
Lonely Universe - Aqu3a and the cover is by Fukane w/ EN and JP subs (There’s that feeling of alienation, in addition to longing, that really defines this song as a Kiro/Helios song.) Link: https://youtu.be/T7Mps7O9u8I
> The contrast between the light-hearted melody and the lyrics filled with loneliness :<
> “Because in this universe, on this vast planet, I was able to know you”
> “I can’t ever become true to myself” cries
Circle - Swan Dive (This could also be a Gavin song, but it’s a little too light for it.) Link: https://youtu.be/Q_aRZWrFN7I
> “Why don’t you meet me in the middle, oh, it’s gonna take a little time, but we’ll be fine”
ロメオ/Romeo - Honeyworks and the cover is by a vtuber group called le jouet w/ EN Subs (This was the only version with EN subs in the video.) Link: https://youtu.be/V654oSE_yhE
> Oh I’ve heard this song before! Someone even did a version featuring the MLQC guys: here :>
-
Hopefully everyone enjoys. For some reason, I can’t think of that many songs for Victor, lol, but I’ll see if I can the next time
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Drew Stars Around My Scars
Hello, hey, hi there. It’s raining, I’ve already lost track of the number of times I’ve listened to Taylor Swift’s new album and haven’t written anything in weeks. Until now! Thanks, Taylor Swift. And @optomisticgirl who reblogged this post a few days ago from @initiala about how Killian holding Emma in 3x22 isn’t just that he’s trying to comfort her, but he’s trying to make sure she didn’t disappear.
Which, like...ok, cool. Anyway, I have thought about this for far too long now and started slamming on keys when the kittens weren’t sitting on my laptop and here’s like 4.1K that may or may not make sense, but at least includes some scathing opinions of Back to the Future. Also, thanks to @shireness-says for always being like...yeah, I want to read that.
-----
She sniffles.
She can’t seem to stop.
Tears stream down Emma’s face without much thought because thinking too much is a daunting obstacle that she can’t even begin to consider yet. Or ever. Definitely ever. Another sniffle, this one actually making her cough somehow, which is a bodily reaction she was not aware she was capable of.
Until right now.
When everything seems to be falling apart around her.
God, she hates time travel. And magic. And evil queens. And parents who can’t recognize her. She supposes she should give them a pass. For a variety of reasons, least of all the magic that’s cloaking both her and Kill—no, that’s not right. Hook. Captain Hook. He’s Captain Hook and she’s still not a princess, but the dancing was almost nice and he hadn’t even slowed down before he was drawing his sword and the jacket spin was something even her muddled thoughts have been able to cling to, so—
He’d held onto her while her mother burned. Tightly. Almost too much.
Emma nearly trips over a tree root.
“Shit,” she breathes, pressing the pads of her fingers into damp cheeks. Her dress is too long. Maybe she’ll mention that to Rumplestilskin later.
Once they get home.
Back to Storybrooke. Those are not interchangeable words. None of this is interchangeable.
Even the trees around Emma look different than the ones she only vaguely remembers from her last jaunt through the Enchanted Forest, taller and a little more imposing, like they’re also aware that she’s one good sniffle away from falling off the metaphorical edge.
Directly into a chasm without magic or parents and she didn’t even get to talk to Mary—
“Nope,” Emma says entirely to herself. So, it seems insanity is looming just a bit closer than she realized. “Not here.”
Or ever. There’s that phrase again. Two words, technically.
Two words probably don’t constitute a phrase.
What does she know, she didn’t graduate college. Or high school, technically.
“Literally,” Emma mumbles, and it’s almost impressive how that one word still manages to sound as loud as it does. As if it’s bouncing off the sides of those same tall and decidedly imposing trees. “Literally didn't graduate high school.”
Something snaps behind her.
There are far too many twigs on this forest floor.
Spinning on the balls of her feet, Emma’s hands fly up, only one of her wrists cracking in the process, and it’s difficult to make out the face moving towards her, but the set of his shoulders is exactly the same as always and that cannot possibly have any deeper meaning.
“Swan?” “God, fuck what are you—” Emma is out of breath. That’s absurd. And a rather unfair commentary on her lungs ability to function. She’s had something of a day, after all. Running a hand over her face, she does her best to retain her higher brain functions, but that’s admittedly difficult when there’s moonlight gleaming from the point of Killian’s sword.
Captain Hook.
Captain. Hook.
Maybe the state of her lungs is partially his fault. He really held on very tightly.
“What are you doing out here?” Emma manages to get out, once she’s taken another pitiful breath. She hopes her lips don’t start to chap. There’s probably not an easy remedy for that in the goddamn Enchanted Forest.
Hook gapes at her.
She grits her teeth. And regrets the state of her knees. They keep wobbling under her, traitors to her emotional cause and the state of several body parts aside from her obviously failing lungs. Whatever’s happening in the general vicinity of her heart seems unstable.
Erratic, even.
“Making sure you’re alright,” Hook says like it’s obvious, and it almost is. Almost. What another piece of garbage word. “You’ve been—” Shaking his head once, the ends of his hair don’t move as much as normal, and Emma flinches when he sheaths his sword. “I just wanted to make sure you were alright, that’s all.” Emma is going to lie. She is. Has every intention of letting the word fine pass through her lips, but those lips open without any sound coming out at all and Hook’s eyebrows jump.
“Thank you.” “Excuse me?” “Thank you,” Emma repeats, finally giving into the urge of her knees and, if nothing else, the length of this dress makes it easier to sit on one of these overly large tree roots. Hook’s eyebrows don’t move. “Should have, uh—should have mentioned that before, probably.” “Thanking me?” “What part of this is confusing for you?” “Quite a bit, in fact,” he admits, and he doesn’t sit, but he also doesn’t look away from her and Emma is pleasantly surprised to find she almost sort of likes it. Almost. Again.
Letting out a breath that she wishes sounded more like a laugh than it does, Emma’s tongue darts out. “Shit, that..well, that sucks, doesn’t it?” His eyes widen. “That’s not a euphemism,” Emma adds. “Just out of place slang.” “You might have to be more specific, love.”
“That’s fair. I—ok, stuff sucking is...well, it just means that stuff is...not great. Like right now, you know...things are—” She shrugs. And tries to smile. It fails spectacularly.
Emma sniffles again.
“Not great?” Hook ventures, and he has to readjust his sword to sit next to her.
“Less than ideal.”
“You’ve been gone for nearly half an hour. I was worried something had happened.” “Hence the sword.” “Never want to be too careful. And you’re—” “—At least capable of still punching people,” Emma argues, not sure why she’s doing that exactly, but it feels like a matter of pride at this point. She exhales loudly. “But, uh...it’s nice that you came out here. I’m sorry that you had to do that too.” They both hear the words for what they aren’t — vast and a little overwhelming, and time travel is so overrated. Emma can’t believe what a popular fictional trope it is. Snow White was never supposed to die. The ends of Hook’s lips twitch, but he doesn’t actually smile, and that’s actually nice and maybe that’s her biggest issue.
Everything about him has been so goddamn nice.
He was much better at dancing than she expected him to be.
And he keeps following her. She doesn’t mind that.
Might even—
No. Not now. Not yet. Or ever. Again. God.
“It’s not a problem, love.”
Emma swallows. Nods. Tries not to fall over that ledge. “I just...needed some time to think, I guess. Is that dramatic?” “No. And suggesting it sucks does have a certain charm to it.” “And you know all about charming, don’t you?” His left eyebrow arches. Some things never change, she supposes. Emma focuses on that. And not how she’s fairly certain she can feel waves of heat rolling off him, even with the few inches between them. Possibly a foot. She’s not great at estimating measurements.
Or much else, it seems.
That’s a far too depressing thought, though.
“I believe I’ll leave that particular moniker to others in the party,” Hook says softly, sitting down. “Would you like to talk about it?” “Which part?” “Dealer’s choice.” “That one crossed realms, huh?”
“Some sayings know no bounds,” Hook smirks, and whatever sound Emma makes at that is even closer to a laugh than the last one. She takes that as a positive. “None of this is your fault.” “Practice that a few more times and it might sound more legitimate.” “Swan, that’s—” “—No, no, no,” Emma objects, not standing up, but she shakes her head quickly enough that strands of hair slap at either one of her cheeks. A few of them stick there. Probably because of the tears she can’t seem to stop. “All of this is my fault. I—I should have waited for help with the portal and everything I’ve done here has only made it worse and—” Another sigh, dragging her hand over her cheek. “—Fuck Marty McFly. And Doc Brown. It was so weird that they were friends, why didn’t anyone ever explain that?” “Did they not?” “No, not once. We were just supposed to accept that Marty met some senior citizen inventor guy who was more than willing to steal dangerous chemicals—” “—And he wasn’t a wizard?” “No, he wasn’t a wizard. No magic in the real world.” Or me, Emma thinks bitterly, but that’s not going to help the situation anymore than her current rambling, and she can’t seem to stop rambling. “But Marty and Doc hung out all the time. And Jennifer didn’t even think it was weird.” “Who is Jennifer, exactly?” “Marty’s girlfriend, I guess, but it always seemed like they were just starting to date at the beginning of the movie and then they got married. Just like that. You think they went to the same college or something? Like once Marty left—shit I can’t remember the name of the town.” Hook hums, a sound Emma can’t actually cling to any more than she can hold the one positive thing that has happened to her in the last twenty-four hours in her hands. It is not lost on her that both of them have to do with the man sitting next to her.
Or how quickly his fingers keep fluttering over the hilt of his sword.
“How far do you think we are from Aurora and Philip’s...land?” Emma asks. “Is that the right way to say that? Did they have a land?” “I believe the word you’re looking for is kingdom.” “Oh, yeah, that makes sense. Should have known that.” “That’s not your fault either.” “You’re really harping.” “Playing a symphony, it seems.” She laughs. She does. It’s not that loud, and there’s a distinctly watery edge to it, the muscles in Emma’s face aching when she manages to smile, but she’s having a difficult time coming to terms with the dexterity of Killian’s eyebrows and her hand moves before she thinks about it.
The metal is cool under her skin, a smooth surface that she can drag her thumb across. Which is exactly what she does, an attempt to ground herself and remind her that she’s still here when she isn’t entirely positive she’s supposed to be.
Hook doesn’t move. Might not breathe, if the state state of his shoulders is any indication and Emma hadn’t realized she was in possession of so many opinions regarding Captain Hook’s shoulders. Or her ability to recognize them.
No matter what, it seems.
“While it may appear that I know everything—” “—Ok, I never said that.” Hook’s smirk grows more pronounced. “I was in Neverland for quite some time, and the boundaries of some of the Enchanted Forest kingdoms changed in the last hundred or so years. But,” he adds when Emma opens her mouth again, “we’re more than a stone’s throw from the land Aurora should be ruling. At least several days' travel.” “God, that’s confusing. And did all these kingdoms have separate laws and everything? Who came up with that? Seems like a garbage way to rule.” “I believe you’d have to file a complaint with several different monarchies for that, love.”
Emma scoffs. “It’s quieter here than it was in Neverland, though.” “Most places are.” “Colder too. I hate the cold. I’m always—can’t ever seem to get warm and my toes are always freezing, it’s...I’m a notorious blanket thief.” “Pirate of sorts, huh?” He grins as he says it and part of Emma wants to scream. Stand up and run, as fast as her feet and far-too-long hem allow. But that part is also smaller than usual, and she’s all too aware of the state her knees are in. “Something like that,” Emma agrees. “When I was a kid I used to live in this place. Snowed for months at a time and I—I hated it. Wanted to be anywhere else. Kept trying to find somewhere that was warm, sunny. Like that would chase away the shadows.” Hook is disarmingly quiet.
And Emma can’t shut up.
“But then I got some place where it never snows and it wasn’t what I thought it’d be. Dry heat, you know?” He shakes his head. That’s fair. Pirates with several-hundred years of experience under their belts should not be expected to understand meteorological cliches.
“Anyway,” Emma mumbles, “it wasn’t what I expected or thought was supposed to happen and—” She scrunches her nose. Hook waits. Presumably for the rest of the sentence, but it doesn’t come and she finds it difficult to breathe again when he starts talking.
“Sunlight always seemed better on the sea. Would reflect off the surf. Could see the entire horizon if you wanted to.” “And did you?” Hook nods. “As often as I could. Even when I was lad. My father used to bring my brother and I—” This might be their best and least organized conversation. Gritting his teeth, his shoulders shift when he inhales sharply. “These stars are different from Neverland’s.” “Really? Weird.” “Mmhm, made navigating something of a challenge.”
“But you’re here now, right?” “Presently, you mean?” Another head shake. More moving hair and unmoving fingers. Emma’s knuckles are white around the hook, holding it like a lifeline and she might have to spend the rest of her life thanking him for this.
It’s not as daunting a prospect as it should be.
“I mean past you is here,” Emma says, “in the Enchanted Forest. Doing pirate type things and offering Mary—” Her tongue gets in the way. As disgusting a thought as that is, Emma knows it’s better than thinking about what is actually happening, feeling as if her throat is collapsing in on itself while her heart does its best to beat its way out of her chest. “Shit.” Killian shuffles closer, not stopping until his knee bumps hers. “That happened from time to time. Leaving Neverland, doing jobs for—” “—Pan?” “Sometimes. He couldn't leave the island, you see. Not without losing the magic as well. Jolly’s crew was his only option. Although we always managed to stay here longer than he wanted us to.” “Well, pirates hate rules, don’t they?” “I believe that’s in the bylaws, aye.” She’s got absolutely no idea what sound that one is. Shaky and a little wobbly and some dark, half-forgotten part of Emma’s brain believes it’s drifting close to giggle territory. That can’t be right. She can’t giggle while she’s still crying.
The bylaws of the Universe probably frown on that.
“Is that how you wound up with Cora, then? Stuck around longer and got a good deal?” Nothing.
No answer. No jokes. Certainly nothing even remotely resembling a giggle.
Just the muscle in Hook’s temple, jumping rhythmically and consistently and Emma really does try to stay patient. Her sniffling makes that difficult.
“Something like that,” Killian repeats evasively, staring straight ahead like he can see through the trees. Maybe he can. What does Emma know. Some pirates probably have to have good eyesight. Make up for the eye patches and whatnot.
She nods. No one asked a question. “Ok.” “Ok?” “Ok,” Emma echoes, “you’re a real shit liar and I’m real great at telling when you’re lying, but—” “—Me specifically?” Yes. The answer is yes, but she doesn’t give voice to that either and maybe she should be writing all these things down. The things she’s not saying.
Should say.
Emma can’t believe she time traveled and didn’t even get to talk to her mother.
And that’s the first time she’s really allowed herself to think of Snow White as her mother.
“Super power,” Emma continues, waving her free hand towards her temple. Her other one is still clinging to his hook. “But that’s fine. You didn’t pry, so I won’t pry, I just—” Collapsing throats, she imagines, are supposed to hurt more than this does. This doesn’t hurt, per se, just feels passably uncomfortable, like there’s a wad of cotton in her mouth, making it difficult to say anything and Emma is so bad at saying anything, but Killian is staring at her and—
Killian.
She lets herself call him Killian. In her head, at least .
“I can’t come up with anything else to say except thank you,” Emma whispers.
“You don’t have to.” “Still.” “You’re welcome,” Killian says, and maybe words carry more weight in the past. By default.
“Can I ask you something, though?” He tenses. Noticeably. It’s another round of fair and understandable, Emma’s teeth finding her lower lip until she tastes blood. Another reminder that she’s still here. With her fingers wrapped around Captain Hook’s—
No, that’s not right. Captain Hook did not follow her into a time vortex. Or ask her to dance. Or wear the fuck out of that jacket. Although that last one could use a bit more work, at least when it comes to sentence structure.
The point still stands.
Captain Hook didn’t do any of that. Killian Jones did.
And he—
“When we were watching everything in the castle and Regina was you know…” Killian lips go thin. Emma might be staring at his lips. Past him had been a very good kisser as well. Maybe she’ll mention that at some point. After this. “Well, I just,” she stammers, “I was terrified, for my mom and my dad and even Ruby—God, is that her name here?” “Introduced herself as Red when Snow White sent her.” “Weird.” “Perhaps the best word for the entire situation.” “Or shitty.” “Aye that too,” he smiles, which is not weird. At least not as weird as it should be. “I wasn’t sure what was going to happen.” “Yeah, me neither,” Emma breathes, not exactly the explicit truth, but at least several steps without moving. “I—you have very strong arms.” “A compliment?” “An observation.” Killian chuckles, and this hair really is unfortunate. Normally, that one bit that Emma has come to regard as her own personal torture device would artfully fall across his forehead, a metaphorical arrow towards eyes that always seem to get brighter when they’re looking at her.
As they often are.
But while the hair is different, the distracting tendencies of his tongue are the same. The tip of it finds the corner of his mouth, a soft push on the inside of his cheek, and Emma’s not keeping a list — at least not acknowledging her want of a list — but the tongue thing is definitely one of Killian’s most telling tells.
Seriously, her sentence structure sucks.
“Although,” Emma adds, “it wasn’t that bad.” HIs tongue goes back in his mouth. She’s got to stop thinking about his tongue.
“No?” “No,” she says. “It was...nice.” So, off the top of her head, she needs to fix — sentences, her grasp of the English language, her tendency to repeat herself, and finding better adjectives for emotionally charged moments.
Possibly.
Emma still hasn’t called him Killian to his face, after all.
“What did you think was going to happen?” No tongue, but an obviously tight jaw makes Emma’s stomach jump into her still-collapsed throat. “Like I said, love. I wasn’t sure. Just wanted to make sure you’re alright.” The lie feels like it reaches out, smacks her across the face and then backhands her for good measure. It leaves Emma’s cheeks tingling and something tugs at the base of her spine. Not magic, because she still doesn’t have magic, but maybe magic adjacent, like a memory or hints of a dream that keep lingering at the edges of everything, and she promised.
She doesn’t push. She doesn’t prod.
She doesn’t pry.
And Killian has to move his sword again when he gets back to his feet. “We’ve got a fire going, if you’d like to warm up.” “Yeah, ok. Thanks.” Emma doesn’t let go of the hook, keeps her fingers curled around it as they move back through the trees and neither one of them stumble, a very small, but much needed victory because—
Well, everything kind of continues to suck.
At least for a little while.
Snow White isn’t dead, but she’s a bug, and then she’s not a bug and Emma has no idea where Ruby goes. She’s too busy worried about this nameless woman and wielding a branch gets her another laugh and a smile she’s going to think about for at least seventy-two hours straight. Then there are trolls, and tears of the less-pained variety. Rumplestilskin continues to be any forest’s biggest asshole, and there’s magic and another round of crying and—
Emma runs.
Sprinting across Storybrooke, she ignores the ringing phone in her pocket, determined to hug her parents and hold her kid with her own display of impressive upper body strength.
And it gets better, less suck-like, at least. Food and smiles and the way her mother’s hand feels when it rests on top of Emma’s.
Until she’s sitting — tucked into the corner of a booth with her own face staring at her from the pages of Henry’s storybook and Emma can’t quite recognize the person there. The happiness on her face feels like...well, a story. A good one, but something that she can’t believe was hers or is hers or could be hers and she’s got to add tenses to that list she only kind of remembers.
Glancing around, the muscles in her neck object to the stress she’s putting them under, because time travel is awful and exhaustion is starting to creep its way up her spine.
“Looking for someone?” her mother asks, and Emma’s lips pop.
That’s it.
She understands. Fucking goddamn finally.
Emma might nod. Or shake her head. It doesn’t really matter.
There are no words. No explanations. Just clamoring back to her feet, the bottoms of her boots sticking to the linoleum near the door because one of the dwarves definitely spilled punch at some point and—
His head snaps up as soon as the door closes behind her.
“So, do you think Rumplestilskin is right?” Emma asks, dropping into one of the wrought-iron chairs at the table Killian has commandeered. Pirate term. “I’m in the book now. He said everything, besides our little adventure, would go back to normal. Do you think that it is?”
“He’s right. Otherwise I’d remember that damned bar wench I kissed.” She smiles. Wide and honest and easier than anything has ever been. And Killian doesn’t flinch when she teases him, like that’s something Emma is allowed to do, but she figures once she uses his name and once they start making out like teenagers it’s fine, and this is her favorite kiss.
By far.
No sounds, no rum, nothing except the feel of his fingers in her hair and her knees bumping against his and she tries to claw her way into his space, a burst of colors behind her closed eyes that she knows is magic and him and them, a collective unit that—
“You came out here,” Killian murmurs, the words barely making their way through the haze of Emma’s post-makeout brain.
She bumps her nose against his. “Turnabout and all that. I...I didn’t want you to be by yourself. And I had a thought.” “Which was?” “Did you think I was going to disappear? When Regina tried to kill my mom. I—you said you didn’t know what would happen, but that wasn’t—” “—Super power, huh?” “Not cool to interrupt when I’m theorizing.” “Well, you don’t like being cool, do you, Swan?” Her smile is going to get stuck on her face. That’s...nice. “Was that what it was?” “The thought had crossed my mind, aye.” “Smart guy.” “High praise.” “I’m an official princess now. In the book and everything, so favors from me hold a certain weight, don’t you think?” He smirks. She tries to memorize it. Every shift of his mouth, the spark in his eye and slight scrunch of his nose, what might be a few freckles there or a trick of the dim lights above them.
Emma’s skin feels like it’s vibrating.
“Thank you.” “You don’t have to keep saying that, Swan.” “Yeah, I know, but—I didn’t think about disappearing, but I did think about wanting something to hold onto and that’s...thank you.”
It’s not enough. Not really, but even the concept of holding her tight enough to ensure that she didn’t disappear in some fairy tale realm is a lot for Emma to wrap her mind around, so she’s going to give herself a pass on this one.
And kiss him instead. Kissing Killian is quickly climbing to the top of a brand-new list of Emma’s favorite things. In every known realm. His tongue swipes her lips and she opens her mouth at the same time her eyes fall shut again, a tilt of her head and bump of their chins, and it’s not easy to deal with all of their assorted limbs at this angle, but that just ensures that this is a bit slower and softer and something that is, quite obviously, the start.
Because she came after him this time.
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Episode 104 Transcript: Endings Are Hard, But Then Again, What Isn’t
[intro guitar music]
G: Hello, it's Grey.
C: Hello, it's Crystal.
G: And this is Busty Asian Beauties, a Supernatural commentary podcast where I, someone who has seen this show many, many times...
C: And I, someone who only knows the show through social media, discuss every single episode of Supernatural from start to finish. Also, we are both Asian.
G: Both Asian! For this episode, we do have a very special one, obviously. [C laughs] It’s 5.22: "Swan Song," written by Eric Kripke and Eric Gerwitz, directed by Steven Boyum. I'm surprised it's a Steve Boyum edit. Or director.
C: Yeah, it's usually a Robert Singer situation.
G: Usually, it's fucking Robert. I guess it's fucking Steve this time. Nice one.
C: Steve, who directed "The End" and "The Song Remains the Same." Both pretty good episodes.
G: Yeah. This episode, obviously, is good. [laughs]
C: It's pretty good.
G: It's pretty good. For a long time, I really pushed back against the idea that Supernatural should have ended in Season 5. The pushback comes from the thing that I still do believe, that Supernatural as an experience is the entire show. Supernatural as an experience does have to include Season 9 at the very least, you know?
C: R- Season 9?
G: Yeah, for me, Season 9-
C: The one that made you quit? [G laughs]
G: No, Season 11 is the one that made me quit. Don't lie to the Internet.
C: Wait. I thought, was it- I thought it was- Okay. Yeah. 'Cause I was like, "It was a season where Cas was super miserable." [G: Yeah, Season 11.] But he's super miserable in a lot of seasons. [G: Yeah.] Season 11, he was miserable because of Casifer?
G: Yes. Or like, he wasn't in the season. He was only half in the season because the other half, he's like, in his own brain, imprisoned by Lucifer in his body.
C: Yeah. You made it through Season 7, though.
G: Yeah. But the thing is like, there's like, different kinds of miseries, and I think the Season 11 misery was like, specifically hard-hitting for me. That's why it made me so miserable. [C: Yeah.] Versus like, Season 9, where it was miserable, but like, Cas was like, he believed in himself, [both laugh] and he was like, trying, versus in Season 11 when he was just so depressed and miserable, and I was like, "Well, that sucks! I'm gonna stop watching the show!" That's not true. I watched until Season 12, but I've lost heart. I was just holding on for the bit. [laughs] That's irrelevant. Now, I think I understand the idea of like, "It should have ended in Season 5." Supernatural, the experience, should have gone on, and it did go on, and that's like, the crux of it, that it did go on. But Supernatural, the story that they set out to tell, yeah. This is it. [C: Yeah.] And Sam should have not come back, and this should have been it. It is actually a very good conclusion to many of the things Supernatural was trying to tell. I mean, I'm speaking so much. What are your thoughts, opinions, violent reactions, etc?
C: I really don't have much. I just sat for 42 minutes. And I was like, "Okay. TV." [laughs]
G: Aw, really? [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] I was really into it, I think maybe because of the throwback of it all or something. Yeah, I mean, a lot of the things that charmed me with it are like, the things that when I first watched this, I didn't really think about or consider [C: Right.] or really internalize. And now I'm like, older, and I've had more experiences in life, and it's like, "Wow! It means something different!" Just like "New Partner" by Palace Music from that one Anthropocene Reviewed episode.
C: Yeah. It's a pretty good song.
G: Well, what did you know about this episode before going in?
C: Sam has to drink a bunch of jugs of demon blood so that Lucifer can possess him.
G: Which we don't even see. [laughs] Kind of wild. [C: Yeah.] Like, they really DGAF about this now.
C: Yeah, yeah. Dean drives over to where the final battle is gonna take place to be with Sam because he wuvs him. Sam has flashbacks about toy soldiers and shit in the Impala, which causes him to be able to take back control and jump into the pit with Adam. Before that-
G: Yeah. On SPNblr, they put a Phoebe Bridgers song over it, and they're like, "Wow! It fits perfectly!" but I hate Phoebe Bridgers so like, I don't give a fuck. I just wanted to bring it up because I thought you would maybe care.
C: I think I've probably seen that video. [G: Yeah.] Was it with "I Know the End"?
G: Yes, I think so.
C: Before that, Lucifer explodes Cas with his brain, but Cas comes back and heals Dean, who's bloody and kneeling on the floor, and Dean asks if he's God. Dean promises Sam that he'll go and have a normal life with Lisa, [G: "Go have a normal life!"] and also Cas brings him back soulless, and Chuck smirks and is revealed to be God for real for real. [G laughs]
G: [laughing] I'm laughing so much at my own joke, and it's so not funny. You didn't even laugh.
C: You just said, "Go have a normal life," but with some emphasis on certain words?
G: [laughing] Yeah, well. I think I'm going through something [both laughing] completely unrelated to this episode. Okay, yeah. I mean, that's pretty much the whole episode. Was there anything that you saw, and you were like, "Oh! Didn't know that." or "Oh! That surprised me!"?
C: Um... no. [G: Not really. Okay.] I think I didn't know about the Chuck narration framing device being throughout the episode.
G: Oh, really? That was always something that I really liked about this episode. I quite liked it. I did find at the end that it kind of falls apart, the idea that Chuck is like, writing the book or a book when he starts explaining the themes and motifs to you. [both laugh]
C: Like, "They died for family."
G: "It's for famiwy!" But yeah. [laughs]
C: Like, was it, though? Like, it was, but was it? [G: I don't know.] I mean, I don't really see how Sam, jumping into the pit was for family.
G: I did also think about the fact that he was like, "Oh, the thing about endings is everyone's gonna be pissed at you no matter what, and like, there's always going to be plot holes and stuff." And it's like, this is not like- Like, you can just fix those things, I think. [C laughs]
C: You don't have to do it.
G: It's just so fascinating to be watching this now, knowing how Supernatural will eventually end, [C: Bad.] which is that it's going to be a highly controversial, honestly godawful finale. And it's like, yeah, well, that sucks. This one was good, though, so, end of an era. Honestly, I feel so old is how I feel watching this episode. I'm like, "I've been a Supernatural fan for so long. I have been doing this podcast for what feels like just a blip of my life, but it's also been quite a while!" [C: Yeah.] I don't know. I feel a bit haggy, as people would say. [C laughs] We're one-third of the way. [C: Yes.] Have you thought about that? [C: Yes.] Yes. We've already gone through two universities Zoom rooms. [C: True.] And we'll go through maybe a bit more. Let's see. That's actually why you need to go to grad school.
C: I need to get into grad school so I can have a Zoom Business account.
G: It's not for literally any other reason other than to have a a university account on Zoom. [C: Yeah.]
-
G: We start the episode. It's "Carry On, My Wayward Son." And I will admit-
C: It's not good.
G: - it does get to me. [C: Oh.] No!
C: I thought you were gonna admit that this "Then" sequence is like, not good in any way.
G: I mean, the "Then" sequence was fine. I don't think it's particularly good or bad. I think it's whatever.
C: I don't think they had any themes or motifs in it. [G laughs]
G: Yeah, exactly. I mean, they were trying to do like, family, I think.
C: It was a summary at best.
G: Which is- "They were trying to do family, I think" is like, the thesis of Supernatural.
C: How was it family? It was just them killing a bunch of things to music.
G: They like, hug, and they're like, "Wow, we're brothers." They don't actually say that. They just hug. The brothers part is implied. [C laughs]
C: The hugging brothers, yeah.
G: Anyway, I do think "Carry On, My Wayward Son" is something. I don't know.
C: Yeah, it's a song that exists. That's what it is.
G: No, I mean, I like that there's a Supernatural song. I do. And I know that I'm speaking to the choir or maybe I'm speaking to the guillotine crowd, [both laugh] but like, I love Supernatural. And it's nice that it has things to it. [both laughing] Which is the bare minimum. The bare minimum of a show-
C: Yeah, okay. Having an unofficial theme song is a way to have the show stick in your mind and imbue some things with significance. Sure, yeah.
G: Yeah. You know, sometimes, you'll meet a Supernatural fan, and you'll have nothing whatsoever in common in thoughts, beliefs, values, etc. [C laughs] But you both are affected by this song in ways inexplicable, so I think that's fine.
C: Yeah. [laughing] Remember that time [G: What?] you said Dean's sex dream had two women in it, so the song should have been "Cherry Pies" instead of "Cherry Pie"? [G laughs] There are two sons in Supernatural. I think the song should be "Carry On, My Wayward Sons." [G screams] And in some ways, there's five brothers in Supernatural, which makes it even more important that it should be "Carry On, My Wayward Sons."
G: [laughing] Yeah, exactly. It should have been- we need to change the rock and roll music genre as a whole. And the two ways we're gonna do is to change "Cherry Pie" to "Cherry Pies" [C: Yeah.] and "Carry On, My Wayward Son" to "Carry On, My Wayward Sons." "Carry On, My Wayward Children," you know? Gender neutral.
C: Yeah. Supernatural doesn't have anybody who's like the first sister, though. [G: Yeah, this is true.] Charlie, maybe?
G: But she's like a sister that Dean never had, so Dean doesn't have her as a sister. [both laughing] I don't know. Why is it that there's no sis- [laughing] What happened to all the sisters in Supernatural? [both laughing]
C: Who knows?
G: Who knows?
C: Jo?
G: Yeah, she died. They all got pushed out by the band Kansas is what happened. [C: Yeah.] The "Then" sequence is whatever. I just like talking about the the song.
C: [laughing] I just remembered how [G: What?] the jokes about Cas murdering the band Kansas before the finale, so that they could form at the planned party in the finale in Heaven?
G: [laughing] Supernatural is kind of a bad show.
C: I'd watch a miniseries slasher spinoff where Cas kills the band Kansas.
G: You know what? I would actually think I'd watch a documentary of what happened in the Season 15 writers room and production team of Supernatural. [C: Yeah.] I think I would be curious, and I would want to watch it. [C: I don't think it's big enough-] Release the tapes, or whatever. Isn't that a thing? Like, people were like, there's a-
C: They were saying that to Jackles about the Destiel confession, yeah.
G: Yeah. So true. Release the #tapes or something. I think it's #ReleaseTheTapes. Also, I can stop making hashtag jokes. They're like, not funny. [C laughs] But you know. We start the episode, as you said. And we continue it, as you said, with a voiceover from Chuck. And he is- this is like, him typing on his computer, and he's writing the show or writing this part of the book. It is always so fascinating to me the idea that like, every episode is a book. I mean, I suppose, whatever. It's like Nancy Drew or something.
C: Yeah. His voiceover is over some grainy footage of like, a car manufacturing plant. He says that there was like, a really famous car that rolled off the line at a plant in Jamesville, and three days later, there was another car that no one gave a fuck about, but it was, in fact, the most important car- no, the most important object in the universe! And this car is the Impala. He says that the first owner was an alcoholic with two ex-wives and spent-
G: - Sal Moriarty, which is an On the Road reference.
C: Ah. Yeah, that's right, that's right, 'cause-
G: I tried to read that book, you know?
C: How was it?
G: I didn't finish it. It was okay. I didn't finish it. Yeah, there was one scene- there's only one thing I remember from that book, which is that Dean Moriarty, he was like, the suave lover boy or whatever. They visited a friend who is so proud that he bagged a hot lady as a girlfriend. [C: Okay.] And so they're like, sitting down, and he's like, bragging about his hot girlfriend, and then Dean is just like, in the corner, like, bored or whatever. And then, as they are about to go, like, the group of friends, he turns to the girlfriend, he points to his watch, and he symbols 3, as in with his hand. And then he comes back later at 3 PM, and they have sex. [laughs] [C: Okay.] That's the only thing I remember. Maybe it's a wonderful book, but you know, I don't know, 'cause I didn't finish it.
C: Yeah. It inspired Supernatural. How good could it be? [G: This is true.] Apparently, on weekends, he would drive around, giving Bibles to the poor, and then after that the car ended up, at Rainbow Motors, which we saw in 4.03. It shows the flashback of John buying her-
G: Buying it, yeah.
C: - and Dean advising him to do so. "That's where the story begins and where it ends."
G: You know, they tried to do this thing where they're like, "Oh, where it begins is where it ends" by like, also putting it in Stull Cemetery in Lawrence, and it's like, what's this corny- Like, it's so funny to me that it's like, "Oh, this is where it begins and where it ends," and by "it" they mean like, the Apocalypse. And it begins in Lawrence, Kansas [laughing] 22 years ago or whatever? I don't know. It's kind of stupid, honestly. But okay, slay.
C: Yeah, I did groan when he said that the Impala was the most important car - no, object - in the universe. Like, yeah, I guess it stopped the Apocalypse. Well, why couldn't you say that toy soldier was the most important object in the universe? There are many things involved in that that were an important thing in the universe.
G: I do think there is like a- I feel like they missed a beat a little bit where they're trying to say that like, it's important because it was love and like, [C: Yeah, and their home.] how, you know, Sam and Dean saved the world because they loved each other, and they saved the world because they loved this car. And you know, and it's like, stuff like that. But the way the framing is like, "Oh, it's the most important. It's where it all began. It's the most important thing. Sam and Dean are the most important people." And it's like, okay, so are they important because of a fundamental importance? Or are they important because they love things and each other? Like, what is it?
C: And also, the little interlude where he's like, "Lucifer doesn't care what car they drive." It kind of came out of nowhere, and I don't think they really brought it home in any way.
G: Actually, I like that line. I would disagree with you. [C: Okay.] What do you mean they didn't bring it home, though? I'm interested in that.
C: I get what they were trying to do. It's like, "Lucifer doesn't love" [laughs] or whatever. [G: Yeah.] But like, I don't know. Whatever. Who cares? [laughs] is what I feel about that. And also, he does in the scene with Michael, I think, so, I don't know about that.
G: You know what? That entire portion, I was thinking, "How the fuck are we- like, Crystal and I, gonna talk about this?" [C: Yeah.] It's such a weird scene, and I have no idea what they were trying to do, really.
C: "Let's not fight, pwease!"
G: "Let's not fwight!"
C: It's like, okay, well, maybe they should negotiate the the stuff where you're starting the Apocalypse if you're gonna be doing the "let's not fight" thing. Is it just he leaves, and you continue ending the world? What are the terms?
G: Yeah. I think what they were trying to do there is that like, Lucifer thinks he knows everything about Sam and Dean, and he does, but like, he doesn't understand what those things mean. So like, he knows that they have this car but like, he doesn't care, and he doesn't consider that this is something they care about and can change the trajectory of their lives forever. So yeah. I think that's what I was trying to do, and I like that. And I think I also like that- I mean, it was revealed to us. But like, the things that make the story of like, the Lego bricks and the toy soldier, like, these are things that we're not privy to in the story. Like, we are privy to it now, but it implies a larger, grander life for Sam and Dean that we are not privy to, and yeah, I think that's the point of it. The existence of their life outside of this story. And I think that's what makes this episode so charming. It's like, yeah, they're like, we are told all of these things, but at the end of the day, there are things that we just won't know or won't understand. And that's pretty cool!
-
G: We are now in the salvage yard, and they have a heart-to-heart where Dean tells Sam that "Yeah, you can do- like, I'm in with your plan." And Sam asks like, "Okay, so you're gonna let me say yes now?" And Dean says, "No, I'm not gonna let you do anything. You can choose what to do. If it's what you want to do, then it's what you want to do, and I'll back you up."
C: Yeah, which is nice. I did like this line. [G: Yeah.] And he cuts it with a joke where he says, "You're a grown- well, overgrown man," which feels right. [G: Yeah.] I feel like he would need to make a tall joke in order to get through these sentences.
G: Yeah. And this part, it did get to me. Whatever. [C laughs] It always gets to me when they do this like, "You're my little brother!" [laughs] bullshit.
C: They did this four episodes ago. Like, if he just stopped there, it'd be fine. When he kept talking, I was like, "You did this four episodes ago."
G: I think it's because this is the episode where we see it in action. Like, Dean always says this shit. He always says like, "You're my little brother" or whatever. [C laughs] But like, this is the episode where we see that. Like, we see him, I don't know, staying with Sam in there and like, telling him that, like, "I'm here. It's okay."
C: Wait, this speech isn't "You're my little brother." This speech is "I've always treated you like my little brother in a way that denied you autonomy, so I'm gonna stop."
G: Uh, yeah, you're right. So I'm talking about scenes from later on. [laughs]
C: - that are completely unrelated to the thing he's saying right now.
G: No, I think- I think- I don't know. I think there's just something to Dean's character where, okay. So like, ugh, I'm gonna get emo, whatever the fuck. [both laugh] But you know, the concept of Dean as a character who took care of his little brother is, of course, very prominent in the show. I don't know. I think when I was younger, I didn't really understand it, mostly because when I was youngerm I was the youngest in our family, so I didn't have like, a little sibling, and so I always thought of it as like, you know, it's the same deal. Like, I have older siblings. I get it. But I do think it is like, such a different experience to have a person in your life that you think of as someone you take care of, and I think that is something that I have taken for granted in terms of Dean's characterization. Like, I do think it's something. And like, you know, in this scene, he talks about how he thinks it's his job to take care of Sam because Sam's like, not a baby anymore. So that's like, that shouldn't be their relationship anymore. But yeah, I don't know. I think Dean- like, if Sam and Dean, like, Sam and Dean, I don't know. I think the problem with their dynamic is that Dean thinks of himself as Sam's parent, but Sam wants Dean to be his older brother, which, those are like, very different things, right? [C: Yeah.] And I mean, it's difficult for them because they have a complicated childhood. Yeah, I just think, like, I don't know. There's this one poem that I came across a while back, and it's something about how like, this older father talking to his son, and the son- the poem describes his son as like, having a receding hairline, so he's also old now. And he tells his son, like, "Oh, calm down on the bread because they have big portions here. You don't want to get full too fast." And the kid turns to his dad and goes, "Are you really like, telling that to me? Like, I'm like, an adult or whatever. It's such a funny thing to say to an adult. You say that kind of shit to children." And then the poem goes like, "Sometimes, when we're walking and there's a curb, I still like, reach out for your hand." And like, yeah. I feel like that is kind of like Sam and Dean’s dynamic. You know, whatever. Whatever. Whatever. [laughs]
C: You're allowed to have feelings even if I don't.
G: Yeah, that's true. Well, yeah, it gets to me. I don't know. It's not gotten to me before in the past, I think, because I just it wasn't something I could connect with, but yeah.
C: [laughs] You couldn't couldn't with it four episodes ago when he said literally the exact same words?
G: No, I just- no, I just- well yeah, I couldn't, because it wasn't placed in the context of like, what happens later in this episode or at least not so directly. Yeah. I think here's a lot to Dean's insecurity about like, "Oh, I love Sam so much, and I have dedicated so much of my life and my mental energy and everything to taking care of this 'kid.' And to Sam it's like, nothing." But like, I think that is the dynamic of a parent and a child a lot of the time. And so, yeah. I've been thinking about that with Sam and Dean.
C: What is "to Sam, it's like nothing" mean?
G: To Sam, he wants to get out of here. His vision is to be separate from Dean and etc. And I think, you know, the idea of like, "This is not a person who's like, not my responsibility anymore." is something that every parent has to go through eventually, right? But like, I think with Dean, it's difficult, because he's not Sam's parent. He is four years older than Sam, something something child development, something something blah blah blah, [C laughs] but also, I think when it is apparent, I think even when you're older, there is still the idea of like, "This is a person who is supposed to give me guidance even if I am a person on my own, etc etc. My parent is still here to give me guidance." And because Sam and Dean, their relationship didn't transcend to that dynamic because they are not father and son, they're brothers, that's the crux of why their relationship is so complicated and difficult. And I- I feel for it, you know?
C: So you feel like it's Dean thinking himself of himself as Sam's parent that caused all the hurt over Sam wanting to leave?
G: I think it's that he is like, he is conflating those relationship roles, I think, is the reason. Like, he wants a peer, he wants a friend, he wants a brother, but at the end of the day, Sam, their dynamic is so parental, often so parental, that it just- it's difficult for it to work out that way.
C: Okay. Sure. I feel like- [laughs] I mean, in my experience, parents like it when you go to college. [laughs] No, but I guess- I don't know. I feel like, yeah, okay, I think what you mean about the conflating makes sense. He has the feeling responsible for Sam part, and then the brother and friend part of like, "Let's stick togethah forevah," [G: Yeah.] so that's what causes the problem.
G: Yeah, like, he wants to be BFFs with Sam, but also, he thinks of himself as someone who raised the kid. And those are like, difficult concepts to combine together. Yeah.
C: Yeah like, the raising makes him feel like Sam owes him something like, obedience or companionship?
G: Yeah. Yeah. [C: Yeah.] And it's difficult to let go of those dynamics, I suppose. Well yeah, I mean, it does get to me.
C: They had four years to get over it, I think. [laughs]
G: Well, he had two years because the Supernatural timeline is fucked up, but yeah.
C: Right. They may have talked at college for the first two years, or that could have just been a script mistake.
G: I don't know. It's something that I think about because- I mean, whatever. I think I talk about my siblings a lot this show, but I do have like, a younger sibling who's a kid. Like, an 8-year-old.
C: Yeah. Quite a different age difference than Sam and Dean.
G: Of course. But like, I also think about like, the concept of like, you know, being a parent versus being a sibling and like, how we ought to- how do you do that. And like, with Sam and Dean, obviously, as I keep on saying, Dean is just four years older than Sam. And like, I don't know, I was thinking about- Sorry, I'm just rambling. [laughs] [C: No.] Well, I was thinking about way back, we had an episode where there was like, something homophobic that Sam says to Dean, and you went, "Yeah, it sucks that he says this, but this is just how they talk, and I'm assuming Dean started it when they were kids." And I think at the time I was like, "Yeah, you're right." But like, I gave it a little bit of a think, and I'm like, "Wait, Dean's also a kid." [laughs] [C: Yeah?] You know, that's the thing about them. It's like, I think also that's why maybe it's also difficult for Sam to hold Dean accountable. Like, he can't find it in himself to think of Dean as somebody who has caused him hurt or whatever, because it's like, well, Dean was a child, also. And I'm sure that adds even more complexity on how Sam specifically thinks of his situation.
C: Did Dean cause him hurt when they were both children?
G: No, I just mean like, they have, like, a messed up dynamic and I feel like if you have a parent you have a messed up dynamic with, you're able to be like. “Well, they were an adult, and they should have known better than to be a person who tries to be best friends with their kid who they're also raising, and now, I don't know, like, etc etc. They're finding it difficult for me to go to college or whatever." [laughs] But like, with Dean, it's like, Dean was also a kid.
C: I mean, Dean was 22 by that point, but yeah. [laughs]
G: My point is like, the development. [C: Okay.] Like, yeah, he was 22 at the time, but like, [C: The development of the dynamic that led to that.] the dynamic started when they were kids, etc. It's like, when you're an adult parent, you have the benefit of [laughs] not being a kid when those dynamics start.
C: Yeah. Dean asks Sam if this is really what he wants, and Sam says that "I let him out. I've got to put him back in." And Dean goes like, "Okay, that's it, then." So like, it's like, a personal responsibility/guilt thing, I suppose, is how they're establishing it. So then there's the title card, and there's a scene implies that they've bled out a bunch of demons. Bobby asks if Dean's okay, and Dean says, "No." And they look through some newspapers, and there are a few omens around, but the one that stands out to Dean is a [G: Detroit.] temperature drop in Detroit, which is where Lucifer said that Sam was going to say yes in "The End." So then they start driving there. Cas is asleep in the back seat, and he looks adorbs.
G: Yeah, [laughs] Dean says, "He's so cwute!" [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] And he is, so it's fine. And it is fine even if he's not. I just find it so fascinating that like, [laughs] the way they frame this scene was Dean being like, "Aw!" And Sam going, "Okay, loser."
C: "He's dying, Dean."
G: [laughs] "Maybe have some sensitivity to the fact that he's losing his powers, Dean." [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] Kind of true. Kind of real. I think if Sam listened to our podcast, where every single time Cas goes into heat, we're like, "Aww, Cas!" he would be like, "You guys should kill yourselves or something." Sam wouldn't say that. But maybe he would. Maybe he should, even.
C: They're talking about Detroit. Dean has a bad feeling about it because of the predestiny, and he's also worried that Lucifer knows about the rings. [G: Yeah.] And Sam goes like, "Dean, like, serious talk time. You know I'm not gonna come back after I fall into a big hole." And Dean’s like, “Yeah, I know.” And Sam goes, “Okay. So you have to promise me something.” And Dean's like, “Oh, yeah, of course, anything!” [G laughs] And Sam says, “You have to promise not to try to bring me back.” [G laughs]
G: Dean go, "What?"
C: Dean is shocked.
G: He's shocked and upset that Sam said this.
C: Yeah, which I do like. [G: Yeah.] Sam's like, "I'm not coming back," and he's like, "Yeah yeah yeah, of course I know that." And he's like, "And you're not gonna try to bring me back?" And Dean's like, "What. the fuck. is wrong. with you?"
G: [laughs] Exactly.
C: But yeah, I don't know. It's nice that he had all of this like, turmoil and stuff, and also the entire time, he didn't even consider that like, he wouldn't be trying for the rest of his life to bring Sam back or whatever. [G: Yeah.] He was this upset, and he didn't even think it was gonna last that long, or it would last that long but like, the whole time, he'd be trying to make it not. So yeah, Dean's very upset and saying that he didn't sign up for that because Sam's gonna have such a bad time in Hell.
G: Yeah. Which I did- I think, like, I don't know. The thing about Supernatural is kind of like, it kind of really ignores a lot of like, Dean's Hell situation. Like, he did go to Hell for couple of months- or no, forty years. [laughs] I don't know why I said couple months.
C: It was a couple months on Earth. It was forty years in Hell. You weren't wrong.
G: Yeah, yeah. And so like, yeah, I feel like this is like a- not like a callback to it, but like a thing for Dean to consider that I have forgotten also. That like, yeah, Sam is gonna suffer, and Dean is going to have an acute understanding of that suffering.
C: And Sam has an understanding of like, your brother being dead long-term [G: Yeah.] and sort of having to give up on bringing him back. [G: Yeah. Aw.] So yeah, they're both talking from experiencing what the other is about to go through, and that's nice. That's fun. At least Sam had a trial run. He had “Mystery Spot.” Dean's trial run was just the end of Season 2, and that was like, for two days. Yeah, Sam says that it's too risky to try to get him out of the Cage given that Lucifer will also be in there. He says that Dean has to do it, and that what he should do afterwards [both laugh] is find Lisa, [G: Yeah.] "pray to God she's dumb enough to take you in," and then have a normal life where he goes to barbecues and football games.
G: He makes Dean prommy! [C: Yeah, he does.] You know how like, there are people who are like, gay Dean truthers. [C: Uh-huh.] This is the one concession I will make. Like, I understand why you think that with this whole Lisa situation.
C: Huh. 'Cause it feels like he- 'cause the point is that he didn't go there because he really wanted to?
G: Yeah like, he went there because he's trying to live up to Sam's expectation of a normal American life or whatever, and-
C: He also went there of his own volition against Sam's will in 5.17.
G: Oh yeah, he did say, "Whenever I think of a future, blah blah blah, [both laugh] I think of you guys."
C: Yeah, that was all him, baby.
G: Yeah, maybe Dean is bisexual, as I have always previously believed and continue to believe. Sorry, gay Dean truthers.
C: And maybe he's straight as I have always- [G laughs] I don't actually believe that. [G: Yeah.] This Lisa fixation is- I mean, that's just the writers being like, "That is what is easiest for us to do." Also, I'm sure just knowing that Dean loves Lisa was helpful for Sam as a, you know, "I don't have to think that- I mean, I care about his well-being, but I am glad I get to offload this onto somebody." But also, Bobby is like, there.
G: There was Bobby, in fact. And later, Sam does tell Cas to take care of these two or something. [laughs] [C: Uh-huh.] Incredibly funny.
C: Yeah, he was just trying to cover all of his based. Yeah. Such a good scene. Deanlisa and Cobby endgame for the world.
G: [laughing] He was like- Maybe Sam was like, "Yeah, maybe Dean is gay. [C laughing] So like, just in case, I'm gonna tell Cas to take care of him or something."
C: Yeah, yeah. Cover all the based.
G: Yeah. It is so fun to me that Cobby is just a duo this episode! [C: Yeah.] Like, everything that they do, they do together, and they can't- I mean no, they have this conversation in the car with Cas in the backseat. That's the only exception. Cas didn't ride with Bobby. But later on-
C: Yeah, he rides with Bobby to Stull Cemetery, yeah.
G: Yeah, later on, they're together. And then like, when Dean calls Chuck, Bobby and Cas were like, hanging out. And then when Dean is like, "I'm gonna go!" they go from some side of the road towards Dean, and they're together! It's so cute. Cobby is real.
C: Yeah, it is cute. I do feel a bit Rufus-baited, though. I thought he was at least gonna be in the montage at the end just because [G: Yeah, we have Rufus this season.] we have Bobby on the phone multiple times this season, and he goes, "And by the way, I'm on the phone with my best friend Rufus!" so I don't know. It seems like he should have shown up in the montage at the end, but he did not.
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G: The scenes are incredibly short. I didn't notice. I'm only feeling it now. We don't really- it makes sense because they're trying to culminate to a long scene, so. [C: Yeah.] They are now like, in the place where Sam is bound to say yes. Is that true? Is Detroit in Chicago?
C: In Detroit. No, I think the transcript is wrong. Detroit is in Michigan.
G: That's so weird. I always thought it was in Chicago too for some reason. Maybe this transcriber is Filipino. Shout-out! They're in there. They're standing in front of the building. And they're like, "Wow, this is it." And the first goodbye is between Sam and Bobby, where Bobby says, “I'll see you around, kid.” [both laugh] And Sam's like, "Okay, well, whatever." [laughs] And Bobby goes, “You fight him tooth and nail, okay? Like, keep swinging. Don't give an inch." And Sam says, “Yes, sir,” and I was like-
C: Fascinating.
G: My first thought honestly was like, "John is more of a father to Sam than Bobby is!" [laughs] [C: For real.] Like, Bobby doesn't deserve to be called the "yes, sir" because that's for his father that he has a terrible relationship with, [C laughing] and Bobby is not his father, and the relationship is bad, so it doesn't count.
C: For fucking real. I also felt this way.
G: [laughs] That's literally not your father.
C: Later, when Lucifer is like, “I'm your real family,” [laughs] I think I also started laughing. [G laughs]
G: He's like, "I'm like a father to you."
C: I don't know. Supernatural will just throw the word "family" around. Like, it means nothing. [laughs] Yeah, Lucifer's more of a fathers to Sam than Bobby.
G: It is actually impressive how much Bobby like, kind of DGAF about Sam. [C laughs] Like, what started out as a joke has become the reality of the situation, and that's his coworker.
C: Yeah, I mean, okay, I guess you could just view him as carrying himself- Like, maybe last episode, he was like, “I'm just respecting Sam's wishes to jump into that big hole. So that's why I'm having this talk with Dean, and I'm like, I do care that he's gonna die [G: Yeah.], but, yeah, I'm gonna put that aside to respect his plan [G: Yeah.] and his competence or whatever," but also, [laughs] like, does he care?
G: I think there is also the aspect of we can view it as he was talking to Dean in that scene. So we're not really supposed to see it as like, Bobby's perspective. We're supposed to see it as Bobby trying to convince Dean, which is of course different, so.
C: Yeah, but I think it says something that he thinks that Dean-
G: This is how Dean is gonna be convinced, yeah.
C: Yeah, that once he realizes that he's just doing this because he's afraid of losing Sam, he'll change his mind. Which I guess he did, so.
G: Yeah. I mean, me defending Bobby and saying that he actually does love Sam as a son is like- You know when you're in a debate team, and they put you in the homophobic side, [both laughing] so you have to fight for homophobia or whatever? That's how I feel defending Bobby. It feels like I'm defending homophobia. I think he doesn't love Sam at all. Well, whatever. [C laughing]
C: I think he does a little bit. I think he just doesn't care that much, or if he cared about Sam, he would care about him more in a "how does this affect Dean?" way before he thinks about how it affects Sam. [G: Yeah.] Which is the whole show also, so.
G: I mean, I think at some point Bobby tells Dean like, "You're my favorite." Or maybe I invented it in my head. Anyway, it's implied in the entirety of the show, [laughs] so we know it.
C: Yeah, he doesn't need to say it for us to know that it's true. [G: Exactly.] Bobby's a little teary as they hug, though. That's something.
G: It's true, it's true. And Sam does his next goodbye to Cas. [C: Ah!} And he goes, Sam goes, "Take care of these guys, okay?" And Cas, very solemnly, with his beautiful frowny face, goes, "That's not possible." [both laughing] Sam was like, a little taken aback. He's like, "Oh." And then he goes, "Humor me." And Cas goes, “Oh, I was supposed to lie. Oh, okay!” [C laughs] And then he puts on his most corny, tired, and played-out smile-
C: Yeah, he twists his mouth just to one side.
G: Yeah. And he goes, "Sure... Like, they'll be fine." [both laugh] And Sam literally tells him to shut the fuck up, which is kind of real of him.
C: Yeah, he's smiling, though. It's a nice moment.
G: It cheered him up, yeah.
C: Yeah. And they didn't even shake hands! Sam held out his hand for a handshake. He wanted a 4.07 callback, but Cas didn't even do it!
G: Cas didn't even grab Sam's hand with both of his hands, which is the most important thing. [C: True.] I do find it fascinating that Cas is like, barely a character this episode. [C: Yeah.] He's not even around. Yeah. And I don't know. I think it is fascinating that we end the show- and I mean, the thing is like, at this point, Cas is just some other guy in the show still. And like, you know, as I've said a million times in the past, later on in the show, he's going to be a lot more of a presence, and he's going to be- like, when he's in an episode, he's like, Mr. B Plot or Mr. A Plot, like, it's the entire episode, versus in Season 4 and 5, where he just shows up for short increments, and it’s quite irregular and stuff. And so I get it. I get that he's not that big of a deal yet this season, so like, he's not gonna be such a huge presence in the finale. I think what I want to say is that I am a little bit impressed that they have him here if that's the case. I don't know. I think I find it fascinating that he has been elevated to Bobby status so quickly. Yeah. That's it, really.
C: It'd be weird if he wasn't here.
G: Why would it be weird?
C: We've just been fairly involved in the whole Apocalypse fight thing.
G: Yeah, and they are- I think with him and Dean, they are trying to do kind of a foil situation with what happens to them at the end. [C: Mm.] Is that true? You know, I don't actually know what foil means.
C: Like, they're like opposites or like, contrasts in-
G: Yeah, okay, well, they are. And you know, Cas got everything that he wanted and he got everything back versus Dean, who lost everything. They were trying to do something with that. And when he was like, “Do you want peace or freedom?” that was something, too. [C: Yeah.] So like, yeah, you're right. There is like, a point, a storytelling point to Cas's presence. Love him! [C: Yeah.] We're gonna go to Season 6, and we're gonna be kind of miserable, but that's gonna be true for the rest of the show. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] And most of the show before, so I don't know.
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C: So finally, it's down to Sam and Dean. So he goes over to the jugs of demon blood, and he asks Dean, "You mind not watching this?" And Dean walks away, and we the viewers also don't watch this 'cause it cuts to when he's done. [G: Yeah.] Can you believe in Season 4, Cas was like, “If Sam drinks too much demon blood, he'll become a monster and a killing machine!" and he literally chugs four jugs right now, and like-
G: He's normal, yeah.
C: He's normo. Like, he seems a bit more focused than usual. That's about it.
G: Yeah. I mean, also, like, I think he was just focusing on not vomiting at up, honestly. [C: Yeah, honestly.] What is the digestion timeline of demon blood?
C: Yeah no, I don't think you can- Yeah, how could he have drank that much without having to piss in between?
G: I mean later, when Lucifer's like, “No, I actually know what's happening,” and Sam makes that distressed face, and he's like, “I don't know what you're talking about!” he was actually trying not to vomit. That's why he was making that face. [C: For real.] Four gallons, though. At least. Concerning.
C: Concering. So yeah, Sam says, "Let's go," and Dean go into a building while Cobby are outside watching. So Sam shouts for the demons to come get them. They get taken upstairs where Lucifer is. We got another Chuck voiceover where he talks about Sam and Dean’s history with the Impala. There's a little army man figurine that Sam put in the ashtray. [G: In the back, yeah.] There are Legos that Dean shoved into the vents, and you can still hear them rattle when they turn the heat on in the car. And he says that even when Dean rebuilt the Impala, he made sure all those things were still there. I don't know how that's possible, but okay.
G: I also- I'm not sure how it's possible, but I find the idea endearing.
C: Yeah, maybe he had to go out and buy new Legos to cram in.
G: For real. And a new toy soldier that's not actually the toy soldier Sam used. He just had bad memory as a child.
C: Yeah. And he said that it was the blemishes that made the Impala beautiful. And then he says, "The devil doesn't know or care what kind of car the boys drive."
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G: We go to Lucifer, and he does this thing where they're inside a room and it's like, it looks like it's freezing because there's condensation in the window, and then he like- I mean, when he breathes on the thing, there's like, something. And then he draws on the window. What Greek letter is this? It's psi?
C: I should know this.
G: Let's see. "Trident Greek letter." [typing]
C: I don't know if it is a Greek letter, you can like, style a phi-
G: It is. [C: Really? Let me check.] The Greek letter psi, the shape of a trident or pitchfork.
C: Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, you're right.
G: He could just be- Ah! Maybe he's just [both] drawing a pitchfork.
C: Because he's the devil.
G: [laughing] Because he's the fucking devil! [C: Yeah.] I was actually trying to figure out, what does psi mean? What is this? Because I was thinking he could draw the omega symbol so it could be like, the end, you know? But he's not gonna draw the omega symbol, and I feel like I would know if he drew the omega symbol, [laughs] honestly.
C: Yeah, I think people would be talking about this.
G: Yeah. Anyway, he's like, “Oh, yeah, it's cold. Sorry. Most people think I burn hot. It's actually quite the opposite,” which, you know, I think I've heard people talk about this as like, "Wow, so cool." I think it's whatever. [laughs]
C: I think I've heard that in the context of like, "The Cage must have been very, very cold," and I do think it's interesting to think about the psychological impact of just freezing and freezing for 200 years.
G: Yeah. Lucifer, his face is falling apart. He doesn't look- when was the last time we saw him, actually? [C: Um...] Was it really in “Abandon All Hope”?
C: I don't think so. Let me- He was in “Hammer of the Gods.” [laughs]
G: Oh my god, you're right!
C: Remember "Hammer of the Gods"? [both laugh] I try not to.
G: I try also not to. Was he already- did he already have, like, sores on his face at that time? [C: Yeah.] He did?
C: Yeah, I think he had them in "Abandon All Hope," too, [G: Really?] because he was like, "Sam, this isn't my true vessel. So that's why this is happening."
G: Ah, okay. Well, I think maybe they did a little bit more of it this episode or something.
C: Yeah, I think so.
G: Sam immediately is like, "I'm going to say yes." And then Lucifer is like, “Oh, excuse me?” And then Sam closes his eyes and squints a little bit, and then the two demons beside them, they like, explode. [C laughs]
C: By little light effects.
G: Yeah, they explode with light. They don't explode bloody like Cas later. Their head blows up like a bulb.
C: Yeah, but not in any way where [G: - it's cool, yeah.] any parts of it go anywhere. There's just a little light that explodes over their head, [G: Yeah.] and then they fall down intact.
G: Yeah. But yeah, and this person's like, "Damn, okay. You're for real, for real." And Sam says, "Okay, we understand. We just want the deal of the century. I give you a free ride. You keep me safe. You keep Dean safe. You bring back our parents." [C laughs] Hilarious. So fucking true.
C: So, okay, the implication is- Okay. So Lucifer ends the entire world. The earth is empty and burned to a crust, and then it's Sam, Dean, Mary, and John just standing there?
G: They don't end the world. Like, that's not the intention of the fight.
C: True, it'll just- things will- well, but also like, if Lucifer wins, all the demons are gonna come up onto Earth to hang out and presumably kill everybody.
G: Yeah, but like, Lucifer also hates the demons, so like-
C: That's true, that's true. So that's not actually part of his plan. He's going to kill all the demons, as Crowley thinks. [G: Yeah.] So like, what is the aftermath?
G: I have no idea. And I mean, obviously, Sam's bluffing, so it's not like this is something he put a lot of thought into, perhaps. [C: Yeah.] But Lucifer immediately is like, "Okay, can we drop the act? I know that you have the rings." And Sam is like, "Oh, no, I'm gonna frow up!" Like, he looks so distressed, and he puts on his most like, "Oh, no! I'm going to pretend I'm not upset, but I'm so upset it's unreal!" voice, and he goes, "I have no idea what you're talking about!" [both laugh] And I understand that he's like, having the worst day of his life, [C: Yeah.] but yeah, maybe Sam should enter acting school or something. [C: Yeah, he should take a workshop.] Not because he's good, but because specifically because he's bad. Lucifer's like, "No, yeah, I know everything that's happening. It's pretty fun. Like, battle in your head. If you win, then you win. If I win, then I win. Let's do it!" And Sam is like, "Yeah, we don't really have a choice. No matter what, even if he knows, we can't do anything else." So he says yes, and there is a bright light that like, emanates from Lucifer, and then we cut to Bobby and Cas hanging out outside, and they see the light like, bursting out the window, which I thought was pretty cool. And yeah, back in the room, Dean is still there, and Sam is collapsed on the floor. And Dean tries to wake him or something, and then he also opens the portal. And, oh my god, there's a chant. That's what Death was talking about. [C: Yeah.] I thought Death just thought Dean was so stupid.
C: Didn't know how magnets worked. [laughs] Yeah.
G: Yeah. [laughs] But apparently, there's a fucking thing that they need to say. Sorry for insulting literally everyone last episode. [both laugh] Yeah. Dean throws it to the wall, and he does his chant, and then there's a hole in the wall just like the show. The variety show.
C: It's fun that the Cage doesn't actually go into.the ground.
G: Go down, yeah.
C: Like, yeah, like, that hole is completely just through a bunch of walls and then out into the air or some shit.
G: Sam kind of wakes up, and it's like, "Oh, it's Sam!" and he's like, "Oh, I can feel him! Okay, I need to jump now, because it's like, our only chance!" And then he goes to the portal, and he hesitates a little bit, and then he like, smirks. And then, you know, we realize that it's actually Lucifer! He turns around and tells Dean, like, "I'm actually Lucifer!" Then he gets the fucking Horsemen rings, and then he disappears, but for some reason, Dean has the rings later. No, Sam has! [C: No, Sam has.] He gets it from his pocket. You're right. And by "you're right," I mean me. [C laughs] Lucifer tells Dean, "I told you it was always gonna happen in Detroit, and it did." That is a fun thing. Lucifer disappears, and Dean's there. And yeah, Lucifer spares Dean, which he makes a point of mentioning to Sam later.
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C: Right. We're over to Sam and Lucifer, and they're in like, some dark building, and there's some demons. They're standing in a circle. And Lucifer has a little monologue time or a dialogue time where he's looking in a mirror, and he's talking to Sam, but he also allows Sam to communicate. Yeah, so there's a mirror, and it's kind of broken, and in the mirror, it's Sam with his dialogue and expressions and things, and then, when we cut to the non-mirror view, then that's Lucifer, yeah.
G: Yeah. What do you think of this scene? I thought it was- I mean, obviously they had to do something to get Sam and Lucifer to talk. [C: Yeah.] [laughs] So we take what we can get, is how I feel about this scene. [laughs]
C: Yeah, I think it's fine. [G: Yeah.] Yeah, I don't know what else they would have done.
G: Yeah, that's how I feel too. I think it's a little bit corny, but like, whatever. It's what they ought to do.
C: Yeah. What's your assessment of Jared Padalecki's acting as Lucifer abilities?
G: I think it's fine. [C: He is fine.] I think in the Stull Cemetery scene, it's great. I think in these scenes, it's a little bit less good, but it could also just be that I have seen the Stull Cemetery scene so many times, so like, I just know- you know, I'm just more familiar with it or something.
C: Which part of the Stull Cemetery scene?
G: Like, the entire scene.
C: But like, including the conversation with Michael at the beginning?
G: Yeah. No, no, actually, the conversation with Michael was kind of stupid. I think I didn't really think about Lucifer's acting at that scene because all I could think of was like, "Wow! This conversation is so stupid!"
C: Yeah, you're like, "Look at these two fuckass guys in the middle of fuckass nowhere, [G laughs] and they're in the most fuckass guy outfits ever." [G laughs]
G: Yeah. The thing about it is like, I think they were trying to do like, "An apocalypse just looks like a normal day" or whatever. [C: Yeah, the mundanity of whatever.] The mundanity of it all. And it kind of works. It also is just kind of funny. [both laugh]
C: Yeah, like, they are so powerful, but it was just a dude running at a dude, and then the other dude running at a hole. [both laugh]
G: I think it's not the mundanity of the what it looks like, actually. I think it's just that their heart is not even into it. [C laughs]
C: Yeah, I don't think Jake Abel could actually convey the like, magnitude or gravity of like, having Michael in him.
G: And then also just like, the whole like, "Oh, I don't really want to do this, [C laughing] but I have to." And it's like, "Noo, but we have to!"
C: "I have to because of my daddy."
G: "I also don't want to do this, and you don't have to do it." And you know, it's like, you're going to fucking destroy the earth, and you don't even give a fuck. Like, your heart's not even into it.
C: Yeah. You've been doing a lot of stuff to lead up to this point, Lucifer. [G: Yeah.] Like, if you didn't want to do the fight, you could have also just not done the rest of it. [laughs]
G: Like, you know, like, I think so much of it is they're just dragging their feet. They're like, "Ugh, fine! We have to fight. Whatever." And it's like, you know. [laughs] It's like Staged Season 3? [both laugh] Should we mention that? But like, in Staged Season 3, how like, the entire show is about how they don't want to do the show anymore. That's what like, this Michael and Lucifer conversation sounds like.
C: There's a scene. Lucifer's thing is that he smirks, and Sam's thing is that he's upset. So he tells Sam that he's not the bad guy here, and Sam's like, "I'm gonna fucking kill you!" And Lucifer's like, "Who are you actually angry with? Me? Or yourself?" [laughing]
G: They're always trying to do this shit. [laughs] Like, what is this bullshit? "Are you actually mad at me?"
C: I feel like he's angry at Lucifer because of how he killed a bunch of people. [laughs] That's how I feel. [G laughs]
G: So real. "Are you mad at me, or are you mad at yourself because you can't stop me?" Like, I'm mad at you. [laughing] Like, what are you talking about?
C: "Dean, who really started the Apocalypse? Sam, who was completely led astray, or you, who didn't stop him?" [G laughs] [G: So true!] Supernatural said, "Inaction is action," and that part is true. Thank you, Supernatural, for these valuable life lessons. Yeah, also, Lucifer makes a Star Wars reference where he calls Sam "young Skywalker." And I don't know. It's whatever. Many people have said that it's annoying how much demons and angels reference pop culture throughout the rest of the show, and it fucking is. Like, why did you decide all of them talk like Dean Winchester?
G: I mean, it's the reason why Cas stands out, obviously, but also like, I thought what you were gonna say is that like, Supernatural is inspired by [both] Star Wars.
C: That's true. He did say that.
G: [laughing] Did you say "Star War"? Kind of true. Kind of real.
C: No. I think I said Star Wars. But I was about to say a sentence that had "Star War" in it, so maybe you just sensed that.
G: Yeah, what was the sentence?
C: "I've only watched like, five minutes of a Star War, and that's my entire experience with that franchise." [G: Yeah.] So I can't tell how much inspo was actually taken. I'm a little bit more okay with Lucifer making pop culture references because I feel like his thing is that he's like, just childish and annoying in like, a very mundane way. Like, I feel like the pitchfork on the condensed glass was also part of that. Yeah, he's doing a bunch of horrible things to people, and he doesn't really care, 'cause he's just having like, a very fun kids' show time in his head about it, yeah.
G: Childish understanding. So you think that's like, negative or positive? I missed-
C: No, I think that's an interesting way to do it. [G: Ah, okay.] That's why I'm more okay with her making references to like, pop culture, especially like, [G: Yeah.] pop culture that's [laughs] not very deep or whatever.
G: You know, later in Supernatural, at some point, that's how he tries to get Jack on his side. Like, he tells him, "We can go to the stars, like in Star Wars," and then he does like, a lightsaber motion.
C: Okay, that's a little bit annoying, honestly. [laughs] I'm imagining it, and it seems annoying.
G: No, I think it's Jack who brings it up. He's like, "Wait. Like in Star Wars?" [both laughing] And he's real for that. [C: Aw, yeah.] If you tell me to go to the US, I'll be like, "Wait. Just like in Supernatural?" and I'd go.
C: Yeah. You would want to go to a place that was like in Supernatural? [G laughs]
G: I just- I'm interested in the culture. You know how people are like, "I want to go to India because like-"
C: By people, you mean a very specific Robert Sean Leonard? [both laugh]
G: Does Robert Sean Leonard- what did he say? I'm gonna look up ideas for that. I always thought that was hilarious. But he was like, "Yeah, I want to go to India. I've been recently interested in the culture."
C: [laughs] "I've been really interested in the culture recently."
G: Yeah. And that's how I feel about the United States. [C: Yeah.] I'm really interested in the culture, and I don't want to do that city shit. I want to go to the fucking Wisconsins of the world.
C: [laughs] Yeah. I think they have good cheeses in Wisconsin.
G: Oh, he says, "I've been reading up a lot about it. It seems interesting." [C screams]
C: You know, it's more than the writers of "Hammer of the Gods" ever thought to do. [both laughing]
G: Yeah. I don't think any writer from "Hammer of the Gods" ever opened up a book about India.
C: But yeah, but I guess apparently Sam is meant to be just angry at himself or whatever. Which is fine.
C: I do think that it is fascinating- like, how they conclude this scene. Okay, let's go through the scene.
C: Okay, so the rest of the scene, he's been waiting for Sam a long time, and he tells Sam that he has to admit that he can feel exhilaration while he's being possessed because the two of them were made for each other. And he says, like, Sam always felt odd and out of place in his family. It's just 'cause he's gay, man.
G: Yeah, just like Luke Skywalker. No, Luke Skywalker is like, an orphan, I think. [laughs]
C: Well, he's also gay. I thought you were just talking about the gay part.
G: Yeah, his Chanel boots and everything.
C: He says, "Why shouldn't you have? They were foster care at best. I'm your real family." And Sam goes, "No! That's not true!"
G: "I'm your reaw famiwy." [both laugh] Yeah, I mean, I feel the thing is like, with Sam and Lucifer, it could be interesting, this whole thing, whatever. It's also just not handled well at all.
C: If they talked more before this.
G: Yeah. Like, they don't do much with it, and etc. And that's a bummer, because it's a theme that they keep on trying to harken back to like in the future. They will keep on doing this shit where Lucifer is like, "No, you're secretly grateful for me," or like, "No, you feel secretly connected to me" or whatever. And as the audience, you're supposed to think, "Is that true?" or something. I don't know. I didn't really think much of it until, you know, people started talking about it. So I don't know. Maybe I will think it in the future.
C: And he says that, "All those times you ran away, you weren't running from them. You were running towards me.” That's kind of a fun line.
G: Horrible!
C: No? What? [G: I mean, it's horrible-] It's horrible feelings-wise, which makes it a good line. [G: Yeah.] And then he says, “But I'll be good. I spared Dean. I'll bring your parents back. I want you to be happy.” And yeah, I think he does do well with the creep factor in this particular exchange. I don't know. The Sam and Lucifer relationship will continue throughout, and there's like, a rape element that becomes more and more explicit throughout the show as well, right? [G: Yeah.] Yeah. And I think that is a natural follow-up from all of this like, "I know what you want, admit it, blah blah blah." [G: Yeah.] Yeah, and also just the whole possession being sexual assault thing that they've established since Season 1 or 2. I don't know. I feel like we have all these scenes where it's like, "Sam, like, you know, deep down inside, there's something wrong with you, and like, you belong with Lucifer and demonkind and all that stuff." And I think the only place where we actually saw that in a way that felt like, Sam-driven instead of other people saying stuff and you're just supposed to go like, "That is how he really feels!" is “When the Levee Breaks.” And I don't- was that- He talks about feeling wrong the whole time when he was a kid, but I feel like the element of like, "And you feel right and whole with Lucifer, with demon blood," I don't think that was really-
G: Explored, yeah.
C: - explored in 4.21, and I feel like it needed to be in order for me to believe that part of Sam feels that Lucifer is his weal famiwy.
G: Yeah. And I think I think an interesting thing that Lucifer does is he- it's raining so hard, so I'm probably gonna have a hard time ending this part. [C: Aw, horrid.] But like, there's something interesting Lucifer does is he starts with the big things, and then he gets it smaller and smaller and smaller until it's true, and then he's like, "Ah, since that's true, the entire thing is true. Oh, you feel you were running towards me, and like, I make you whole, and I'm actually your true family, etc." And then, like, Sam says, “I don't want anything from you.” And then Lucifer is like, "Really? Not even a little bit?" And then later, when Sam kills all of the demons who are in his life, we are, I think, to believe that Sam feels kind of good about it. [C: Yeah.] And then, so now, Lucifer has established that this is something Sam did like, or did enjoy, and then now, it gets into Sam's head that like, "Wait. So all are all of those bigger things true?" when those things are like, not related, you know? [C: Right.] But because Lucifer connects them, that's like, where the whole manipulation thing comes in. I think it's like, really interesting, honestly. Like, I really think it's really interesting. Like, the way this conversation plays out where he he just goes from big thing to small thing and how like, that manifests into Sam- I don't know. It's a complicated- I think because this is one of the things that's Supernatural actually does deal with with complexity, I think for ways that I do not agree with, for reasons I do not agree with, but they do deal with it with some complexity. Like, the whole Lucifer and Sam situation. And so it is something that I feel like an extra something of care when talking about. Because like, a lot of the time, a lot of the other dynamics in Supernatural are pretty straightforward. [C: Right.] Versus this one where the things that Lucifer is doing are like, I think actual things that actual people in the world do or experience, and so it feels a lot more difficult to talk about. You know what I mean? [C: Yeah.] Yeah. So I don't know. I think I have kind of shared this kind of sentiment in the past. But how the Lucifer and Sam relationship plays out like in Season 7 in the visions that Sam has of Lucifer, and also in Season 13, those conversations are not really things I am incredibly excited to do [laughs] just because I feel like this is something that does need a lot more complexity of thought about things that are sensitive topics.
C: Right. He also describes the feeling that Sam feels as exhilaration [G: Yeah.], which I think is a good choice for manipulation because, like, all of exhilaration is like, you know, like, [G: Nervousness.] high heartbeat, nervousness, and it's very easy to say that someone's upset- [G: Mistake-] to say that it's exhilaration. [G: Yeah. Yeah.] And especially after killing a bunch of people that you kinda are angry at, that is probably something that you could think of yourself as feeling.
G: Yeah. I mean, Supernatural, honestly, yeah, they do do this. They provide Lucifer and Sam a interesting dynamic. I just don't think they like- just because Sam's characterization is always on the like, [laughs] like, they're always doing a terrible job at it, you know? And so I just- I don't know. I think I feel a little bit more dubious about what Supernatural is trying to actually tell us with scenes like this, just because historically, they have had- they have not had a good rapport with Sam's character. And that that is a little bit frustrating to me. It's a lot frustrating, honestly.
C: Yeah. So Sam says, "I don't want anything from you." And Lucifer goes, "Really? Not even a little payback?" And all the demons who are there, Sam starts to recognize them as people who have been throughout his life. There's like, an elementary school teacher. There's [G: Some guy.] his friend Doug, his prom date Rachel.
G: And it is kind of wild to me that, like, Rachel is in a gown. Like, everyone's-
C: Yeah, in a white gown.
G: [laughing] Rachel is in a white gown. You're in prom? A white gown? [C laughs]
C: Yeah, wait, is this meant to be her the prom outfit that she was in?
G: I think that is supposed to be the implication, that it's like a prom outfit. I think it's still stupid. I don't think that should be her outfit now as a demon who's walking around. But yeah, I think the implication is that is her prom outfit, in which case, terrible prom outfit. A white dress? I didn't go to prom. So maybe that's actually a wonderful dress.
C: I'm trying to remember what other people who went to prom have worn. I think some people do wear white. Yeah, he says, "Sam Winchester, this is your life," and that Azazel's gang has just been here the whole time manipulating him the whole time. "I know how you feel about them. Me too. What do you say you and I blow off a little steam?" Okay, wait, so he hates them because he just hates demons in general?
G: Yeah? No, no, no, I think it's because, you know, they're like, manipulating him and stuff.
C: No, I mean, Lucifer hates them. Like, when he says, "Me too."
G: Ah. Yeah, I suppose so. I think he does.
C: Okay, yeah. 'Cause I feel like he was maybe trying to frame it in like a "How dare they manipulate you since you were young. We hate them for the same reason."
G: "I'm the only one who can manipulate you!" [laughs]
C: Exactly, "Even though I told Azazel to go up and manipulate you!" I think he just hates them because he hates demons, but I think that he is trying to frame it to Sam like, "And because I want you to be happy and I'm trying to protect you or whatever, don't think too hard about why they were following you in the first place."
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G: Dean, Cas, and Bobby are outside a like, TV store or whatever, and they're watching the television, just like, in Tian Mi Mi, or the movie Comrades: Almost Lovers, a beautiful movie. Go watch it. It's featuring Maggie Cheung, the most beautiful woman of all time. Cas is like, "Yeah, we're fucked. I don't know what to tell you." [both laugh] Dean is like, "What are we gonna do?" And he's like, "Let's just drink a fuckton and die."
C: Wait, [laughing] you missed when Cas says, "It's starting," and Dean says, "Yeah, you think, genius?" and [both] Cas goes, "You don't have to be mean!" [both laughing]
G: Yeah, he like, turns around a bit. He like, he moves his body away from Dean, he moves his head away.
C: [laughing] Yeah, it's so cute!
G: "You don't have to be mean!" So true. [C: It's so fun! Yeah.] After his alcohol comment line, Dean says, "Okay, Bukowski." And I think because of this this line, I tried to read a Charles Bukowski book. [C: Wow!] Yeah, I didn't make it. I don't think it's for me. [laughs]
C: I haven't read any Bukowski, so maybe it's for me, or maybe it's not for me.
G: Yeah, I think I don't like books that are... misogynistic. [both laughing] I mean, I don't even remember which Bukowski-
C: What a weirdo! You don't like books that are misogynistic?
G: No, but like, I feel like there are limits. Because, for example, I read a lot of Kurt Vonnegut, [C: Yes, I was about to bring that up.] and I think Kurt Vonnegut has a lot of misogyny in his books. I think because with Kurt Vonnegut, if you read his books one at a time, I think there is a- it becomes more swallowable. It's more palatable. Like, you can go like, "Well, that sucks that this is how women are written," but you can still turn the page, right? I think there are other authors where that's quite impossible to do. And I'm not sure if Bukowski is one of them, but there was a time in my life where every time I read a misogynist, I was like, "Let's not do this. I don't want to do this." Yeah. And also like, with Kurt Vonnegut, I think the reason why I have a very, very, very, very strong aversion to his other books other than the ones I read is because I just read the ones I read in sequence, so like, you know, all the misogyny is like- it's like, so obvious the patterns of it. So yeah.
C: I just skimmed a Charles Bukowski poem, and it was decent. So maybe. It also felt a little misogynistic, though. [laughs] But yeah, I don't know if Dean was referring to his books or his short stories or his poetry.
G: I mean, what are the- I think we we should have started doing a book recommendations in Supernatural, like, let's just keep a list. I think that would be a fun thing to do. Books mentioned in Supernatural. Books that are referenced in Supernatural. And for me, the number one is, of course, the Vonneguts, just because I am actually a fan. And then, I don't know. At some point Dean talks about Aesop, and Sam’s like, “Wow, you're a genius!” [laughing]
C: Yeah, Dean's talking about like, The Odyssey, and Sam's like, "Oh my god, what?"
G: At some point, someone calls him a beach read, and he goes, "Beach read? Lady, I'm Tolstoy," but that is also a thing that he says.
C: Oh yeah, I remember that. I'm incredibly annoyed by it.
G: Yeah. I just really hate when Sam and Dean say "lady" as like, a replacement for a name. Like, I think that's incredibly rude. And also, if anyone else says it, I also don't like it. [laughs] It's not just Sam and Dean. [both laugh]
C: Yeah, they should replace it with "ma'am." That would be fun.
G: I liked it when Sylvia Plath says it in one of her poems that starts, "Lady, your room is lousy with flowers," but that's my only exception, just like Paramore. Anyway, Dean calls Cas a slur. [laughs] [C screams] I asked prior to recording, I asked Crystal what the status of "sissy" as a slur is. I think it is a slur.
C: I said that I don't really think it is, but I think-
G: Different environments, different communities, yeah.
C: Yeah, I also- I don't know. I feel like the word slur, I don't always know what it means, because I feel like people use the word slur to mean different things, but yeah.
G: Yeah. Going to do linguistics blah blah blah in this one. But I don't know. I mean, obviously, the way it is used here is derogatory. [C: Yes.] And okay, so the line is, "You listen to me, you junkless sissy. We are not giving up." I think the combination of those words, "junkless" [C: Yes.] is like, obviously, it's trying to do something with regards to like, "You're unmasculine." [C: Mm-hm.] Yeah, I just- I don't know. Two episodes ago, we talk about how they say "fag" in Supernatural, but it's all obviously not used as a slur in the show. [C: Yes.] Like, the author maybe was like, "Haha!" Tongue-in-cheek, "Hehehe, we said it." But like, in the context of the show, if this was just a conversation that happened in front of me, I'd be like, "Yeah, that's not a slut." But here, like, it's so very obviously said with vitriol.
C: Derision, yeah.
G: Yeah. So, horrible! It did perk me up. I was like, "Oh, okay." [laughs] I think "perk me up" is not the word. [both laugh]
C: Yeah, I don't think it made your dick hard.
G: No, you know, like, my head was down. It rose up, so yeah. [laughs] Did you say "it made your dick hard"?
C: Yeah. [laughs] It perked you up. It made your dick hard.
G: [laughs] Is that what "perk you up" means?
C: It can mean "cheered up," but I think sometimes people also mean arousal when they talk about it. But yeah, I think "sissy" is often a term applied to gay men and trans women, and I think that the "junkless" aspect of it like, definitely touches on the latter some more.
G: Yeah. And again, I don't know. No, I mean, like, because of the way we talk about "fag" for example, it's like, it is a slur, but like, you know, it's used lovingly in many communities. And like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's true for this also, but doesn't make it not a slur, you know?
C: Yeah, yeah, I've heard some people self-identify using "sissy."
G: Yeah. Anyway, all of that. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] I was just surprised. And this is like, this episode was in 2010, so I think we also need to keep that context in mind, maybe? I don't know.
C: Maybe? I don't know what was acceptable to say.
G: I don't know the etymology of etc, yeah.
C: Yeah. I'm gonna check if this is the first time this word was used in Supernatural. Dean said it in 2.11.
G: Really? How?
G: He uses it as an adjective. He says that old school haunted houses have "fog, secret passageways, and sissy British accents." [G: Interesting.] [laughs] Interesting, yeah. I can see why that would pass us by, though. Like, I feel like it's not used as vitriolically as it is here.
G: Yeah. Well, I mean, [laughs] I think everything is a slut if you say it harshly enough. But also, that's not true. But like, this one. It's true for this one.
C: I think this one, because it has a history of being used to mock queer people.
G: Yeah. So Dean asks Bobby like, "Bobby, do you have any ideas?" And Bobby just goes, "Nope. We're going to fucking die!" And then we go back to Lucifer and Sam, and now there's like, multiple dead bodies on the floor.
C: Yeah, they really focus on Rachel because of the red blood stain on the white dress.
G: The red dress, yeah. And it's like, in the middle of her torso, too, and I kind of was like, "Is it in the lower abdomen, just like in every other other woman in Supernatural?" But I don't think it was. I think it was like, higher up in the torso. But yeah, Lucifer asked Sam, like, "Are you having fun yet?" And I think Sam looks guiltily, or something. Anyway, so we have another Chuck voiceover. And he says, like, "In between jobs, Sam and Dean would sometimes get a day, sometimes a week if they're lucky, and they would have just like, you know, free time. And they would use that time to make some money." And he says, like, "Sam used to insist on honest work, but now he hustles pool like his brother."
C: What was the honest work that he did for a day?
G: What jobs was Sam doing? I mean, you can like, do construction work for a day, I think.
C: Yeah, I think factories and shit sometimes will just hire people.
G: Factories, really?
C: Maybe? I don't know. That sounds right, but I don't know.
G: I don't think that's right, yeah. I think you need a rigorous health exam for that.
C: But construction work, you don't need to?
G: I don't know. I mean, I'm Filipino. I don't know about American life. But like, yeah. I mean, you can just show up to a house and be like, "I'm going to build you a cabinet," [laughs] and then you do it. I don't know. "I'm gonna fix your plumbing or something." [laughs]
C: Huh, yeah, perhaps. Maybe Sam was a scab. [G: Yeah, for real.] Maybe every single time he insisted on honest work, it was 'cause-
G: [laughing] It was completely dishonest, yeah. I mean, I think you would need- I think here, the requirements for any job, but also factory job specifically, it's like, you need a police clearance, and you need all of the tax bullshit, and then you need a health examination, including an X-ray, because they're checking that you don't have tuberculosis. [C: Mm.] So yeah, I don't think he can go in for that unless he has those ready. But then again, it's like, one day, come on? How's he even gonna get paid? Is it at the end of the day pay?
C: Cash, I guess?
G: Yeah, but they usually do that at like, the 15th and the 30th, I think.
C: Well, if it's a job position where everyone's expected to only be there for a day.
G: Are you sure that factory work you can do for a day?
C: I don't know if this is true. [G: I find it highly dubious.] I don't think that it's true.
G: What other jobs does Sam do? What is his honest work?
C: I don't know. Did he go around knocking on doors, asking if they wanted their lawn mowed? [both laugh]
G: "Can I mow your lawn?" What if he had a sickle? Maybe he was like, one of those guys who was like, "You don't actually need a lawnmower. You need a sickle."
C: I'm going on the website Labor Works USA, and they have partnerships with various companies that offer same day pay [G: Oh, that's cool!] and temporary work. Yeah. And the industries that they have listed are assembly and manufacturing, which does imply factory work, and then construction and food service - food service makes sense. Like, if someone needs like, an extra hand for catering or something.
G: Yeah, yeah. Oh my god, maybe Sam is a caterer!
C: Yeah, maybe so. Landscaping, machine operations, moving and package handling, packaging, site cleaning and waste removal, warehouse and distribution, and housekeeping and janitorial services. I do think you have to apply to join this like, organization, though, so they probably do vet you at some point. But maybe Sam did join, at some point, [laughs] an org that has partnerships with various temp jobs. Who knows? Yeah. Maybe if you stand outside a restaurant during like, rush hour, you can be like, "Can I come in for a quick shift?"
G: I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true.
C: I'm sure there's like, a lot of restaurants that will just- I'm pretty sure there are restaurants that like, will- if it's just not a very formal system.
G: You work for tips kind of thing? [C: Yeah.] Yeah, okay, I see that.
C: But yeah, I don't know. Anyway who has experience getting one-day jobs, let us know.
G: Maybe he was doing open mics. [C laughs] So true. Go, Sam.
C: Yeah. That's an honest days' work. Yeah, no, like, Dean was hustling pool, and Sam was doing an open mic.
G: In the same bar! [laughs] They were doing it in the same place. Yeah, Chuck says, "They drove a hundred miles for an Ozzie show, two days for a Jayhawks game." I did find these ones very charming. I found them very charming. I think it's so charming. I don't know. What is the Jayhawks?
C: I'm looking it up, and I'm seeing a band, but they said "game"? Oh, it's a Kansas... basketball? Oh, all of the teams from the University of Kansas are called Jayhawks, so it could be any sport.
G: Oh, yeah, that's fun! So they're going back to Kansas. [C: Yeah.] That's so cool! That's pretty cute. Love that.
C: That is cute that they developed some loyalty to the University of Kansas.
G: Yeah. And here I was asking what NBA team Dean supports or whatever, and he has always been a collegiate basketball guy.
C: Oh, and they're located in Lawrence, Kansas, too. So yeah.
G: "When it was clear, they'd park her in the middle of nowhere, sit on the boot, and watch the stars for hours without saying a word. It never occurred to them that sure, maybe they never really had a roof and four walls, but they were never, in fact, homeless." [C laughs] And Chuck's like, "That's really good!" and I'm like, "I don't know, man." [laughs]
C: Yeah, I think the point is that they wrote that, and they were like, "This is kind of bad." And they were like, "Let's just have Chuck lampshade that it's bad." [G laughs]
G: Yeah, anyway, I think this is the first time where we see Chuck actually typing this shit. He's actually quite jolly in disposition, but his phone rings, and he picks it up, and like, he answers it by going, "Mistress Magda?" Yeah, but it's not Mistress Magda. It's Dean. And they like linger on this joke and won't let it go.
C: For so long! [G: Yeah.] Dean just saw Sam like, get possessed by Lucifer and then disappear. [G laughs] And Bobby and Cas have both told him that the world is gonna end.
G: And Dean's like, "Okay, so what's that about?"
C: "Okay. But what's Chuck's relationship status?" It's 'cause he knows that Sam and Chuck were sorta involved, [G: Yeah.] and he's sort of just trying to suss out how badly Chuck is gonna to take the news.
G: Yeah, I think when when Dean was like, “Yeah, Sam said yes,” and Chuck says, “I know,” maybe Dean was like, "What? I thought you guys were in love!" [both laugh] [C: Yeah, exactly.] But maybe they're not anymore.
C: The Mistress Magda thing is 'cause Supernatural has an ongoing joke that Chuck is unmasculine and uncool, so that means he would be sexually submissive. [G: Yeah.] Yeah.
G: I think it's also a part of it is also that he pays for sex work, which Supernatural has always had a weird thing about, yeah. [C: Yeah.] It's a sign of like, lack of-
C: Real men can just get pussy by themselves or whatever, yeah. Though, I mean, in 5.03, I feel like it was treated more neutrally.
G: What's happening in 5.03?
C: The Cas "Free to be You and Me” thing.
G: I'm not sure what you're talking about.
C: With Chastity?
G: Ah, okay, okay. I think I was thinking about "The End." Yeah, I was like, "Where's that in 'The End'?" But you literally said "Free to Be You and Me," and I completely skipped over it.
C: Yeah, I said 5.03 and then I said "Free to Be You and Me," yes.
G: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. Dean is asking like, “Oh, what happened to Becky?” And Chuck's like, “Oh, yeah, it didn't work out. I had too much respect for her.”
C: What does that mean? I think th ejoke is that he wasn't attracted-
G: "If I respected you less, I may be able to stay in a relationship with you more." Like, what? [laughs]
C: I mean, respect has been used in like, “99 Problems” as like, a “Oh, sorry. I'm not actually gonna be attracted to you in front of your dad.” so like, I think that's just like, a euphemism for "I didn't want to fuck her."
G: Yeah, no, I mean definitely, that's what this is for.
C: Yeah, which is, yeah, unfortunate. I still don't understand why that's the language chosen.
G: Yeah, I think the implication here is like, I don't know. "I just didn't like her."
C: But he did, like, very much so in "The Real Ghostbusters."
G: Want to have sex with her?
C: Wasn't he doing his whole pining after her thing the whole episode?
G: I think he was just pining after the idea of like, someone liking him.
C: Why Becky?
G: Who knows? Why anyone, Crystal? [C laughing] [C: Fair.] Well, to answer your question honestly, it's because Becky is already into the show and also into Sam and Dean, and I think Chuck felt a little bit of ownership over those things. Like, "Well, if you like them so much, you should like me." [C: Perhaps so.] Yeah. But why anyone, Crystal? [both laugh] Yeah. And Dean just keeps on pressing. He just keeps on pressing. And Chuck eventually has to go, "Well, I mean, this can't be the reason why you called." [laughs] And I don't know. Dean says, "Yeah, Sam said yes, blah blah blah. Did you see what like, what's gonna happen after?" And Chuck is like, “The angels are keeping it very top secret. But I saw it, anyway, and it's tomorrow, high noon, Stull Cemetery." High noon is like, 12? Is that true?
C: Noon is 12, so I would assume.
G: Yeah. High noon is 12, but you smoke some weed. [laughs] Dean immediately recognizes this Stull Cemetery because it's in Lawrence, and Chuck says, “Well, it has to end where it started, I guess.” Chuck also says that like, there's no way to do all of this unless we have the rings and stuff and that he doesn't know what's gonna happen. But obviously, we know that's not true because he wrote extensively about the car. [C: Yeah. Yep.] Imagine if like, the car lost gas in the middle of the trip, and Dean has to hijack another car, and then he just dies [laughs] [C: It'd be over.], and the world ends, yeah. So fun.
C: So Dean's by the Impala, and Cas and Bobby show up. And Bobby's like, “You have a look on your face that indicates you're gonna do something stupid. Can you just give up, please?” [G: Pwease?] And Dean's like, "No, I need to go talk to Sam because it's Sam!" And Cas is like, “Don't do this. The only thing you're going to see out there is Michael [both] killing your brother." Lot of faith in Michael winning here. [laughs] And Dean says, “Well then, I ain't gonna let him die alone." And you care about this line.
G: Yeah. It matters to me.
C: Yeah. It is, I think, a well-placed line for people to care about.
G: And like, you know, it's the entire thesis of the scene in Stull Cemetery. And like, that's important. That matters to me. [laughs]
-
C: Now, we're at Stull Cemetery.
G: [laughs] We have the stupidest conversation in all of the earth. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, and maybe even other planets.
C: Yeah. And Lucifer's acting very different during this conversation. Like, he's not doing his whole smirky thing anymore.
G: He's doing like, a kicked puppy vibe.
C: Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like- I think it makes sense, but I think the issue is that it's too similar to Sam that like, I feel like [G: Yeah.] it didn't work as much for me because I need there to be a clearer delineation between the characters.
G: And the thing is, they were trying to do something with like, "Oh, this is how Lucifer is similar to Sam" or something. I don't know, actually, what they're trying to do.
C: Maybe. I think they were maybe trying to do that. But like, I feel like with this TV show format where Jared Padalecki is playing both of them, I feel like the main thought is gonna be, "Is he like, not able to act as a different guy?" Yeah, Lucifer says it's good to see him, and Michael's like, "Yeah, it's good to see you, too. Can't believe it's finally time!" [laughs] And Lucifer's like, "I don't really want to do this." And Michael's like, "Yeah, I don't wanna do this either." [laughing] And Lucifer's like, "So like, why are we doing this?" And Michael says, "I have no choice after what you did." He doesn't even say what he did. [laughs] What did he do?
G: Yeah. I was waiting for that because I was waiting for-
C: Yeah, what did he actually do? He's been doing stuff now, but what did he do back then? He said he refused to bow to humans. That's not doing anything. That's saying a sentence. What did he do?
G: Like, the thing is, what I was waiting for is some sort of explanation of like, what actually occurred. Because like, Lucifer really does have this kind of like, "I'm the underdog. I was the wronged party." Like, every single thing that Lucifer has said this entire season has been like, “But don't you see? I'm actually the sad one!” That's his entire vibe. And so what you would expect to happen here is if they're going to continue to have Lucifer be the bad guy is for that to be like- that idea to be demolished. That like, "No, you just think- you just think you're the victim. But actually, what you did was like, so vitriolic, and you just delude yourself into thinking it's fine." But like, that's like, not the vibe of this conversation at all. [C: Yeah.] Like, this conversation ends, you're like, "I'm kind of on Lucifer's side." [both laugh] Like, what's that about?
C: Yeah. I don't know. It's- yeah. I mean, I don't think we're supposed to be strongly on Michael's side. Like, I think we're supposed to think he's like, a tightwad or whatever. [G: Yeah.] But I just feel like it would be expected that he says what Lucifer did. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] It would be helpful.
G: I think the implication is that he made God angry, but like, who give a fuck?
C: Yeah, yeah, he does- Yeah, that is the- So after "what you did" was "you made our dad mad, and then he walked out on us"? [G: Yeah.] Okay, I guess that's an interesting enough concept to explore. But like, so what did he do that made him angry? [laughs]
G: [overlapping] No, but like, what did he do to God, then?
C: Yeah. [laughs] What'd he do, though?
G: And like, the thing is like, again, if they were trying to do something interesting with Lucifer and Michael, they could have done it. It's just impossible to do now at the last episode of this season, and we don't see Michael again until Season 15, and like, you know what I mean? Like, if they try to develop-
C: Season 15? Well, we see AU Michael earlier, but yeah.
G: Like, if we tried to develop stuff more, like, it would be fine. If we know what Lucifer-
C: Yeah, but the only development is just, "And they're just like Sam and Dean! How? They're brothers!"
G: Yeah, that's what they're trying to do here. They're just trying to have, like, someone who will follow orders and someone who will not. And it's like, "Okay, well, is there more to anything?" [C: Yeah.] And I'm saying the whole thing about how it could have been interesting because it really could have been interesting, you know? You could have had a more complex Lucifer and a more complex Michael, but they just didn't develop it, and now they expect us to care, and like, well, we don't. [both laugh] Also like, I do find it so fascinating that here, it's real that Michael kind of doesn't want to do all of this shit, and I remember at some point in the season, I was like, “Wow, Michael's not really putting in any effort to get to Dean.” [C laughs] I think he was just kind of hoping that nobody says yes. [laughs] [C: Yeah.] He was like, "I don't really GAF. If Dean doesn't want to say yes, who am I to judge him? I also don't want to say yes."
C: Yeah. Zachariah was the only one who cared. [G laughs]
G: Literally, I think Zachariah was- I think maybe what happened is that Michael had a really, really, really enthusiastic subordinate. [C: Yeah.] And he was like, “Man, I can't disappoint this guy. I have to pretend I give a fuck.” [C: Mm-hm.] And the way he was like, “Oh, how I'm gonna show that I give a fuck is to be like, 'If you don't do this. I'm gonna kill you!'” [both laugh] [C: Yeah.] Zachariah's like, "Nooo! He's gonna kill me for real!"
C: He's like, “I really hope he doesn't do it so that I can kill him, and then there's no one who wants to do it.” [G laughs] [G: Literally.] Yeah, Lucifer goes, "What I did? What if it's not my fault?" And he goes, "Think about it. Dad made everything, which means he made me who I am. God wanted the devil." Okay, you will never be “Bug Like An Angel” by Mitski, so move on. Yeah, Lucifer says that he doesn't see the point of them fighting, like, “Is this just one of God's tests? We're brooothers! Let's just not do it!”
G: I mean, the point that they're trying to make here is freedom and choosing your own path, [C: Yeah.] veering off your fate, like F-A-T-E, etc etc. I just find it so fascinating that like, the thing that Cas says later is, "Peace or freedom." And it's like, for here, it's like, if you do one, you do the other, so I don't know.
C: Yeah, if you guys don't fight, then there will be peace because the Apocalypse will stop.
G: Yeah, and you will do it through the power of free will. So I don't know. I think they kind of trip a little bit in this entire conversation. Like, it's just mind-boggling. I don't know what they were trying to do.
C: Yeah. I don't know. Maybe if both of them walk off the chessboard, Lucifer's gonna continue sending storms everywhere or whatever, so it won't be peaceful? [G laughs] Who knows? Michael says that he can't step off because he's a good son, and he has his orders, and he's not gonna rebel like you. And he says that Lucifer always blames other people, and that they were all together and happy as angels, but in-
G: And this is like, a part where I was like, "That could be interesting." Like, Lucifer, is unable to take accountability for anything. And like, I think that that like, applies to how we have seen him prior. Like, he never talks about anything he did as anything that could possibly be wrong. He doesn't, you know, etc. Except here, it just looks like he's right to not blame himself, you know? I don't know. So stupid.
C: Yeah. So what Michael says is that he betrayed them and made God leave, and Lucifer's like, "No one makes him do anything. [G: Lucifer's like, "That's not my problem."] He's doing this to us." And then Michael says, “Let me throw in another Dean parallel. You're a monster, Lucifer, and I have to kill you!” [both laugh]
G: Which is something Dean literally says, right?
C: [laughing] Basically, I think! Well, it was like, "If you weren't my brother, I'd hunt you" or something. And also, I'm sure he says “monster” at some point.
G: Yeah. And he does have to kill Sam at some point in Season 2, yeah.
C: Yeah, all that. And Lucifer's like, "Okay, fine. Let's fight." And then we get, honestly, just a very corny theme.
G: I- shut the fuck up! [laughs]
C: It's a bad song, the car is going slow-
G: The song is bad.
C: And the cut is like- [laughing] I love the way that- Okay, I'll just do. Dean-
G: [laughing] Can I say first- Can I say something first, before you decimate this scene to pieces? [C: Yeah.] I love this scene. [C laughs] I love this bit. I think when Dean put that tape on the deck, I was smiling the entire time, and when he was driving, I was smiling the entire time. And I think a part of it is that it's a bright scene, and I was like, "Wow, we're in daytime! Love the sun!" But also, it's wonderful, I think, the whole vibe of it, of like, yeah, there's some dude- We had just had this really serious, mind-boggling conversation, and now there's this dude with a tape and a terrible song going through there. [C laughs]
C: Yeah. So there's a guy with a tape and a terrible song. His name is Dean Winchester.
G: He's going through here, yeah.
C: And he's going through here, yeah. So he's gotten to the cemetery, I assume, and he's like, "I want a soundtrack. [laughs] I want a diegetic soundtrack. I'm about to witness my brother die, [both laugh] but what I really want to do outside the cemetery is put a tape in with just a song that's bad!"
G: " - is associate a terrible song to his death, and I will never be able to listen to it, which is fine, because it's terrible."
C: - it's so bad, yeah. [laughs]
G: This is why he chose a terrible song. If he chose a good song, he'll be like, "This is a song I can never listen to again!"
C: Yeah, "I've ruined this song forever!" It's "Rock of Ages" by Def Leppard.
G: This is why you should only listen to terrible music when you begin a relationship, by the way. [C laughs]
C: Yeah. That is real.
G: [laughing] Just like me and Will Wood. [C laughs] Except I still listen to him, so.
C: The song begins with like, just a talky part that isn't cool or energizing or anything. [G laughs] [G: Yeah.] And he starts driving incredibly slowly. I myself have had to speed the scene up for AMVs, [both laugh] [G: No!] so I have a special hatred of it. [G: So true.] I just think if you're trying to do a slow and deliberate thing, don't do this song. And if you're trying to do a cool thing, don't have him drive so slow. Also, his dialogue seems to indicate that they're trying to do a cool thing.
G: Ah. I don't know. I think it was- I don't know. I think it was normal.
C: Well, I think it sucked! [laughs] Yeah. So he drives. And it's so nothing. It's like, the wheels going over the bumpy grass incredibly slowly.
G: The wheels in the Impala go round and round.
C: They sure do. And Dean gets out of the car, and he goes. “Howdy, boys. Sorry, am I interrupting something?" Cut to commercial. We come back. Dean is in the car.
G: There's no music. [C laughs]
C: [laughing] He opens the door, and he goes, "Hey! We need to talk." [laughing]
G: And the music is done. They cut through-
C: [laughing] Like, he came out, he was like, "Am I interrupting something?" The song kept going, he was like, "Wait wait wait. Give me a second." [laughs]
G: He was like, "Wow! This song actually does suck for real."
C: [laughing] Yeah, that just has to be what happened. That's what happened in between when there was the cut to commercial. [G: For real.] I just think this is a very obvious mistake, and I don't see how this couldn't have been caught in the editing.
-
G: Now, we're in the cemetery for real for real. We were also here for real for real earlier, but like, it was a stupid scene.
C: Yeah, we were here the whole time. Dean drove like, 10 feet. [G laughs]
G: Yeah. Anyway, Dean says, "We need to talk." And Lucifer's like, "Yeah, no, this is so stupid." And Dean's like, "No, I'm not talking to you. I'm talking to Sam." But Michael is like, pissed that Dean is here and is like, "Yeah, you you have to not be here. You have no right to be here." And Dean says, "Adam, if you're in there somewhere, I am so sorry." [laughs] At least he apologized!
C: Yeah. I think it was nice that he said that, but then he forgot about that guy for ten seasons, so.
G: Yeah. Michael says, "Adam isn't home right now," and Dean goes, "Well then, you're next on my list. But you know, right now, I need to talk to Sam." But Michael's real pissed, really furious. He goes, "You little maggot. You are no longer a part of this story!" But Cas goes, "Hey, assbutt?" What do you think of this? What do you think of this word? Do you like it? I've heard people not like it.
C: I think it's fun. I mean, I think I encountered it before I had the knowledge and feeling to form an opinion on it, so it's just like, part of who Cas is as a person to me.
G: Yeah. I think- I don't know. I think maybe that's true for me, too. It's just like, I don't know. I think it's cute. I think it's fun. But yeah, it's cuts to Cas and Bobby [laughs], and they're standing-
C: Yeah, they drove here together!
G: Yeah, and Cas is holding a Molotov cocktail, and he throws the bottle directly at Michael, like, directly at Michael's body. And also it's like, a Molotov cocktail of holy oil, I think, or holy fire. [C: Yeah.] And [laughing] Dean just looks back and goes- Oh, wait, and Michael erupts into flames. And Dean turns back and goes, "Assbutt" And Cas is just like, "Uh." And he goes, "He'll be back and upset, but you have your five minutes." But Lucifer, looking at this, goes, "Castiel. Did you just Molotov my brother with holy fire?" [laughs] And then it cuts to Dean, who gives Cas like, a little bit of a "Uh..." side-eye. He's like, "Um, so how are you gonna get out of here?" And Cas just goes, "Haha, [both] uh... no?" [both laugh] [C: So important.] And he's doing that same- he has the same vibe of when he told Sam, "No, it'll be fine."
C: "Everything's gonna be okay!"
G: Yeah. He has one lying face. Lucifer says, “No one dicks with Michael but me,” and he explodes Cas into a puddle. Not even a puddle. It's like, so everywhere. It’s like a fine mist of blood and goo and meat and everything. Anyway, we get the Dean reaction face where he looks at this, and he looks shocked, which is kind of funny, because later, when Bobby dies, Dean looks at it, and goes, "Noo!" [both laugh] So like, I don't know, the juxtaposition of those is pretty funny to me. [C laughs] [C: Yeah.] But yeah, Lucifer starts trying to attack Dean, but then, yeah, Bobby shoots, and Lucifer twists his neck via air, and he dies. [C: Yeah.] And Dean goes, "[both] Noo!" Yeah. And then, like, Dean starts trying to crawl up the hood of the Impala or something. And then Lucifer, like, grabs him by the legs so that he can start punching, and he punches him to hell and back.
C: It's honestly kind of funny. The way the punches are cut feels like a comedy skit.
G: [laughs] Yeah. Anyway, what happened at some point, like, Dean falls to the ground beside the Impala. Dean starts calling out for Sam, but Lucifer is like, "No, yeah, he's in here, but, you know, we're going to feel every crack of your bone." Just like me in the morning. [C laughs] And yeah, he says, "We're gonna take our time." But then Dean, like, holds on to Sam's jacket, and he goes, "Sam, it's okay. It's okay. I'm here. I'm not gonna leave you." And he just like, repeats this for a bit. Like, he's really beaten the fuck up, and Lucifer's still going at him. And then suddenly, as Lucifer raises his fist for that final blow, he catches site of the little [laughs] replacement army guy [C laughs] that Dean put in the ashtray that Sam put in the ashtray before Dean did. [laughing] Wait, this joke escaped me completely. But I mean, like, yeah, there's the army guy there. The way they do it is like, yeah, it's there. And then we like, zoom in on Sam's eye, and there's a glint in in his eye that looks so obviously [C: Fake.] edited in. It looks bad! It looks horrible! And then we just have this quiet- this like, incredibly quiet scene. Is there background music? I don't think there was. But it was just this incredibly quiet scene where, like, you know, Lucifer and now Sam has his fist raised up, and he's looking at the little army guy, and we just get a bunch of flashbacks, and it is- At first, it was like, all of the times that are like Impala-relevant. So like, carving their initials on it, you know, stuff like that, and all the toys, and I don't know, the cassette tape collection. You know, stuff like that. Sleeping in the car, going through the car, Sam brushing- yeah. Did we ever see them carve their initials, aside from here? I don't think so. I think this is like, the first time.
C: Yeah, I mean, they do it when they're kids, and they'll do it in the Bunker table-
G: No, yeah. But I mean, we've never seen the carved initials like, ever.
C: Yeah, I don't think so.
G: Yeah. I mean, they bring it up in, you know, the finale finale. Or at least the pre-finale. They bring it up in 15.19, where they carve- [laughs] what did they carve?
C: Castiel and Jack?
G: I think they put CW- [laughs] No. They put SW, DW, MW, Jack, and Castiel. Or Cas, I think.
C: I think it was Castiel.
G: I'm sure it's Castiel. You know why? Because if they put "Cas," they would have made it double S, [C: Yeah!] and I would have rioted. [C laughs] I don't know. I think it's a fun thing. I think it's a fun thing, the carving, specifically. The flashbacks slowly turn from like, moments in the car to moments with Dean. So now we have scenes that are not in the car, but it's Dean. And like, it's actually like, quite emotional. Like, I felt like, "Aw!" Like, "The show's ending!" you know, when I was watching this scene. And then they did this really horrible editing choice [laughs] where the final scene is a scene where Dean like, hugs Sam in- when he comes back to life in "All Hell Breaks Loose," but they slow it down, so it's a really janky slow motion. [C laughs] So there's just this like, hype-up of- And like, the cuts become faster and faster too. So like, they are building up to something. It falls- it doesn't fall flat. I still think it's flies a little bit, but it's just flies lower than it should have otherwise if they used a more not slow-motion version of this scene. But okay. Go AMV makers or something. [C laughs] Anyway, yeah, we go back to Sam, who is now Sam. And he unclenches. [C laughs] It's him. And he goes, "It's okay. It's okay, Dean. It's gonna be okay. I got him." And then he gets the ring, puts it on the ground, he does the chant, and he looks so scared, and I think that's what got to me. Like, he does look so scared, like, about to jump into this thing. And as he's about to, Michael, like, comes in, and is like, "No! We can't do this. We can't do this." And eventually, like, Michael tries to get Sam to not jump, but Sam just grabs him in with him. [C: Yeah.] And the earth swallows him, and it closes up, and that's it. [C: Yep.] End of story. [C: Goodbye.] If this show ended here, this would be the last we see of Sam. [C: Yes.] And it is quite an affecting thing to think about because we start the story with Sam. Like, this is Sam's story.
C: They never treated it like Sam's story.
G: Yeah. But you know, like, if this was the final episode of the show, and it was just like, okay, start to end, like, we started out with Sam. And like, you know, Sam had an apple pie life or whatever. He was in college. That was like, barely apple pie. That's like, apple tart, maybe. [both laughing] He had an apple tart life, and yeah, and like, you know, he was safe, and he was there and had a girlfriend, which I'm only mentioning because it's important, not because I support the role of misogyny in Supernatural- [C laughs]
C: Well, I do! [G laughs]
G: Yeah, every time you mentioned Jess, it's in support of the role of misogyny in Supernatural.
C: Yeah. I'm nodding my head to show that I agree with misogyny in Supernatural.
G: Yeah. And then his last scene is, he just gets swallowed up by a hole in the earth and dies. And not even just dies, like, is miserable forever. Like, it sucks! [C: Not good.] And I don't know. Yeah, it's truly something. It's something. Yeah. I just wanted to say that.
C: I don't know. I guess it would just be framed as like, a tragedy, obviously. But like, what is the framing? Like, is part of it like, "Well, he made his mistakes, and now he's paying for it," or is it-
G: I don't think so. [C: Yeah, it's just-] I think it's like, "What are the choices we make? And you can make the right choice." And in this case, Sam made the right choice to jump into that thing, etc, and the world was saved, but like, you know, he's gonna be suffering in a cage forever, and Dean's miserable and alone, and Cas is going back to the place that rejected him, and Bobby's back to being by himself. And, you know, it's like, these concepts of, like, "What does it mean?" Like, yeah, you can do the right thing, [C: Right.] but none of that guarantees a happy ending. In fact, maybe even doing the right thing means subsuming yourself into the fact that you're never gonna be happy. [C: Yeah.] And that's- I think that's something. [C: Yeah. I suppose.] Wow. Sorry! A bummer! [laughs]
C: I mean, if it ended here, it wasn't meant to be a tragedy, which is meant to be a bummer.
-
C: Yeah, Dean's still kneeling on the ground where he was when Sam came back, and Cas shows up, and Dean goes, "Cas, you're alive?" And Cas says, "I'm better than that." and he heals Dean by touching him on the forehead, and Dean gets up.
G: I think there's something to, as I said earlier, like, Dean, like, loses everything, right? [C: Yeah.] Like, he lost Sam-
C: Yeah, he points it out on the car convo, too.
G: Yeah, and lost Bobby. But like, in that scene, he was like, in the car conversation, he was like, actively losing Cas, too. Like, this was somebody he connected with, and now, he's just gonna go back to Heaven. And I don't know. This one- I'm bringing this up here because the "Cas, you're alive?" is like a, you know, "If Cas is alive, then I haven't lost everyone." And then he brings back Bobby, and it's like, "Well, I haven't lost everyone! At least Bobby's here. At least Cas is here," and then he loses those too. And like, by choice, it seems like.
C: Would we say he loses Bobby? I feel like both of them just decided not to hang out. [laughs] Like, it's kinda on them.
G: Yeah, maybe he was like, "Oh, you never even loved my brother." [both laugh] Maybe Bobby was like, "What a good thing that Sam succeeded. Wow!"
C: Yeah, "Hell yeah!"
G: "I knew he had it in him to throw himself into a burning pit in Hell or whatever," and Dean's like, "Dude. Have some sensitivity! I'm mourning." And Bobby was like, "Wait, why are you mourning? I thought you were afraid of like, losing. You just lost your brother!"
C: "Losing, not losing Sam!" [both laugh] Yeah, that's why they don't talk.
G: And Dean was like, "I need to go."
C: So true. Yeah. It seems like more of a choice that's like, "Sam wanted me to live a normal, apple pie life with Lisa, and that means that I'm not gonna talk to any hunters anymore. Bye!" [G: So true.] Yeah. How would Cas have fit into this apple pie life? [G: I don't know.] Sam wanted Dean to go back and like, go live with Lisa and all that shit, but he also wanted Cas to watch over him. Yeah. When Cas was looking at Dean raking leaves, that wasn't about Destiel. He was just following his promise to Sam. [both laughing] Yeah, he was like, "I fucking hate doing this, but I told the love of my life Sam Winchester that I would."
G: Yeah, like, if Dean was secretly gay but he had to be straight to like, keep his promise to Sam, [laughing] Cas is secretly straight, but he had to keep his promise to Dean, and that's why he did all of that?
C: He's secretly straight? [G: Yeah.] Okay, so there's no love for Sam that's causing this.
G: No, yeah, no love for Sam other than, um, I don't know.
C: Brotherly?
G: He prommied! He prommied! [C laughs] He has respect for the promise. He has respect for the lie.
C: He has too much respect for Sam, and that's why he's following the promise and not fucking him. [G laughing] [G: Exactly!] So yeah, Cas heals Dean, who stands up and says, "Cas, are you God?" Kind of a crazy line. What did he mean by that? Dean has had a lot of issues with God this season. Is that related at all to this statement? [G: What is he asking here?] Does he actually believe this for a second, and yeah, also, what is he asking?
G: I think maybe he thought- he did believe it for a second.
C: And that Cas had been God the whole time? And how did he feel about that?
G: I think it's also a little bit wishful thinking, maybe. Like, if Cas is God, [both] he'll bring Sam back or something.
C: Yeah, like, "I thought that God was like, a completely detached figure who didn't give a fuck. But he was here the whole time."
G: Yeah, [laughing] "But if God wanted to fuck me, [C laughs] maybe he'll bring back my brother!" [C: Literally.] And he did! He literally did! [both laughing] But he's not God, he's an angel, so he only brought back Sam's body, not his soul. So true!
C: Yeah. Exactly. Cas says, "That's a nice compliment." which is also an interesting idea.
G: And he's smiling a little bit. He's doing a beatific smile or whatever the fuck.
C: Yeah, yeah. I love when Cas does a beatific smile. I don't think he's done one this whole season.
G: I don't think so too, and he was miserable.
C: But now that he has his powers back, he feels superior again in some way. He's not miserable, and he feels he has the right to beatifically smile. He goes like, "No, but I think he brought me back, new and improved." And he fucking resurrects Bobby. Does he lose his resurrection powers right after this episode? Because I feel it'd be very helpful if he continued to have them for Season 6.
G: Maybe Bobby is not dead. Maybe he just had a broken neck, but he was on the verge of dying. [C laughs] I don't think so. [C: Okay, sure.] I don't think that's true, because your spinal cord does the- what's that? The breathing-
C: Yeah, the brain needs to connected-
G: - the unconscious- What the fuck is that called? The things that you do that you don't think about?
C: The... autonomic functions. So yeah, Bobby's alive, and then we go to the Chuck voiceover in Chuck's house, and he's finishing up the manuscript. And he goes, "Endings are hard, and everyone hates all endings. The fans are always gonna bitch. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] And it's supposed to add up to something, which also makes it hard." [laughs] And then-
G: Imagine like, reading a book, [laughing] and this is like, how it ends. [C laughing]
C: Yeah, you're going to the ending, and it's like, "It's hard to write these because you're fucking annoying!" [G laughs] Anne Rice would do this. Anne Rice would say that you're interrogating the text from the wrong perspective.
G: What are you talking about?
C: Yeah, have you seen that? Apparently- I haven't read any of The Vampire Chronicles, but one of the books called Blood Canticle came out, and it was like, universally panned because it's just bad, and she like, wrote an Amazon review of her own book that was incredibly long, and all of it was like, "You guys don't know what the fuck you're talking about! I can't believe you don't recognize art! [G: So true.] Like, oh, you're telling me I should have gotten an editor? I don't use editors because I know I'm better than them," etc, etc. And one of the opening things is that she says, "You guys are interrogating the text from the wrong perspective." and I think that's the phrase that stuck from that review. But yeah, Chuck would do that.
So yeah, we now have a Dean and Cas, Cas and Dean scene in the Impala, and Dean's driving. Cas is sitting next to him. And Dean asks, "What are you gonna do now?" And Cas says, "Return to Heaven, I suppose. With Michael in the cage, I'm sure it's total anarchy up there." And Dean goes, "So what? You're the new sheriff in town?" And Cas smiles beatifically.
G: And Cas is like, "Ya." [laughs] Cas goes, "Ya, I suppose I am!"
C: Yeah, he says, "I like that" first.
G: [laughs] What's his problem? What is his problem? Let's do a Cas analysis right now.
C: What is his problem? He spent like, a season feeling absolutely miserable as he lost his powers little by little.
G: Yeah. And then he was proven right, so, that's why.
C: Yeah. And also, he was like, "God doesn't care about me. God doesn't wuv me," etc etc. [G: Yeah.] And he got all his powers back. God said, "You're my favorite special little angel," and kissed him on the forehead. [G: Yeah.] And he's like, "Thank God, I don't have to feel as depressed as I did last year when I was hanging out with all these fuckass guys. Goodbye!"
G: Oh, that's true. He probably does associate Dean with like, negativity, because he's like, "Yeah, this is the person that made me experience doubt." And like, that's not true, but Cas thinks it is, you know what I mean? [C: Yeah.] He does think that-
C: Yeah, 'cause he went from like, the lowest like, "Let's all get drunk and die as the world ends" to like, "Oh my god! Like, God loves me, God cares, I have my powers back. He like, wants this for me. I want this for me. Like, I don't want to hang out with this guy anymore. He ruined my life!" [G: Yeah.] Yeah, I mean, I think he still has a fondness for Dean, but I think there's just like a, you know, "That was then. That was my lowest. He was there for me at my lowest. Now, I'm at my highest. I don't need him." [G: Yeah.] Yeah.
G: Well, he will be there in all of your further lowests Cas, but only because [laughs] he will shove your face into the mud face-first. [both laughing]
C: Ex-act-ly. I think there's a fondness. I think there's also just a sense of superiority and moving on. Like, he's like, "God, as my therapist, said that I shouldn't talk to you anymore."
G: Yeah. And like, I think now, more than ever, Cas thinks like, "Oh. I'm an angel, and this is some guy." [C: Yeah.] And that's a sentiment of his that will continue on for a bit and will be the backbone of Season 6. So yeah, I think it's cool that we see it then here. That like, there's already inklings of that here.
C: So yeah, Dean goes, "Wow. God gives you a brand new shiny set of wings, and suddenly, you're his bitch again." Yeah. And Cas does say that he doesn't know what God wants. "I don't know if I can return. It just seems like the right thing to do." So okay, I think we were maybe overstating God's importance regarding his change of heart, but-
G: No, I mean, it's purpose. I think God's part of it, too, for sure. Like, God did bring him back, and that is a big thing. But like, he's chasing the sense of purpose, and he thinks the sense of purpose was given to him by God. Like, I don't think it's a we're attributing too much or anything.
C: Well, he says he doesn't know what God wants exactly.
G: Yeah, but like, "If God gave me my skill, I need to use it." That kind of thing.
C: Yeah. I think that does make sense. Everyone in Heaven hates him and wants him to die. It's incredibly funny that he was like, "I'm gonna go up and I'm gonna rule everybody!"
G: Yeah. Well, he was like, "Well, God said, 'Fag, you will forever.' And so who give a shit if everybody want me to die?"
C: Exactly. And Dean says, "If you do see him, tell him I'm coming for him next." And Cas was like, "Oh, you're angry!" [laughs]
G: He's kind of shocked. [laughs] It's so funny. [C: Yeah.] He's like, "You're angry." and he's saying this like it's a reveal. [laughs]
C: Yeah, he's like, "Wait, aren't we like, good? Like, I'm cruising. I'm living my best life. I brought your Bobby guy- that one? He's back. Like, we all knew your brother was gonna die. Like, what's up?" Dean goes, "That's an understatement." And Cas says, "He helped. Maybe even more than we realize." And yeah, Dean says explicitly, "[both] That's easy for you to say, because he brought you back. But what about Sam? And what about meeee?"
G: Yeah. "Where's my grand prize?"
C: "All I got is my brother in a hole."
G: Yeah. And Cas says this line that like, is kind of iconic to me. Also doesn't make a lot of sense. I don't know. They're trying to do something. He says, "You got what you asked for. No paradise, no Hell. Just more of the same. Admit it, Dean. What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?" And he says it, "Peace... or freedom?" [both laugh] He's really selling it.
C: He's practicing for his TED Talk.
G: Yeah, we go to Dean, but like, as he turns his head to talk to Cas, Cas has disappeared, and Dean goes, "Well, you really suck at goodbyes. You know that?" [C: Yeah.] I mean, it is incredibly funny that Dean was like, "What about Sam? What about me?" And Cas is like, "Well, you made your choice, Dean." [both laughing] And then he seemingly immediately goes to the Cage to bring back Sam!
C: No, that is so true! [laughing] Yeah, no, at what point was Cas like, "Okay, it's Cage time." Like, did he go to Heaven first for a while, and he was like, "This kind of sucks!"
G: "This is kind of boring. I need an adventure." [laughs]
C: Like, "I'm kinda bored. Let me just nip down to the Cage for a second." Or yeah, was it just like, "Dean, you have to accept that Sam is gone... forever. Oh my god, he's gonna be soo happy when I surprise him next week!" [both laughing] Like, I guess he also didn't know that he was gonna succeed. Maybe he just wanted to be like, [G: Give it a shot, yeah.] "I'm gonna say something so wise. It's gonna leave Dean in a really emotionally stable spot if I try and fail. I think this is gonna be what's really gonna help him throughout the rest of his life in case I die down there." So what is it that- Okay, like, Dean asked for this, when?
G: Asked for what? What are you talking about?
C: "You got what you asked for, Dean"? Like, what is he talking about, and also when did he ask for it?
G: No Dean's just general idea that like, Heaven shouldn't exist.
C: True. Still exists?
G: What?
C: But it still does exist.
G: I don't know. I mean for Dean, it's- I don't know. I don't know.
C: No, no, no. "No, Paradise, no Hell" is just the outcomes of the Lucifer/Michael fight. [G: Apocalypse, yeah.] That's what he's talking about. There we go. Okay, yeah. He didn't want the fight to happen. The fight didn't happen. [G: Yeah.] And that means that the earth is going to stay the same. [both] Yeah. "Peace or freedom." What is peace to this situation?
G: I have no idea. Is peace-
C: Is it when Heaven wins the fight? Is that what peace is?
G: Yeah. But like, I don't know. I think you can argue that this is peace and freedom. Like, yeah, Dean's out of the hunting life. He's fine. He's miserable, but he's fine. I mean, you can make the argument that peace doesn't necessarily mean happiness, and yeah. I don't know. It's just like, it falls a bit flat. Maybe that's the reason why. Cas is like, "Oh, this argument is not working. I think I need to get Sam out of the Cage." [laughs] Yeah. So we have more of a voiceover. Chuck is going like, "Yeah, this is the last time Dean and Bobby are going to see each other for a very long time." It's not that long. [laughs] Also like, this is cut by like, Dean and Bobby having a hug and like, Dean driving away. And Chuck says, "Bobby's going to be hunting a rugaru next week, but Dean won't be. And Dean didn't want Cas to save him. Every part of him-"
C: Very interesting 4.01 callback. I was surprised that it happened here.
G: Also like, it's just an interesting way to put it. [C: Yeah.] "Dean didn't want Cas to save him." He was still alive. Was he gonna die of injuries?
C: Oh, I thought he was talking about 4.01.
G: No! He was talking about just this!
C: 5.22. Just now? [G: Yeah, yeah.] He's gonna die from being punched in the face?
G: He wants to die and find a way to bring Sam back. I mean, he can get CTE, so [laughs] he'll die a long while from now. I think it's just an interesting way to say that Cas saved him. Like, I don't think that's true, necessarily.
C: I think if they wanted this to work, he had to be dying a little bit harder by the time Cas showed up.
G: Like, I think it could be fine to have him like lying on the ground obviously dying of injuries or something. [C: Yeah.] And then Cas shows up and like, he's back to life. But yeah, apparently, every part of him, every fiber he's got wants to die or find a way to bring Sam back, but he isn't gonna do either. He's not gonna die, ever? [both laugh] "Because he made a promise." Yeah. And the promise manifests itself by Dean knocking on Lisa's door. And it's like, night, and Lisa opens the door, and she like, looks a bit shocked, and Dean is like, wearing a very sheepish smile. And he goes like, "Hey. If it's not too late, I think I'll take you up on the beer." And Lisa goes, "It's never too late." Shut the fuck up! [both laugh] I'm so sorry. It's not her fault that she's a woman in Supernatural.
C: Yeah. And also, we said that we'll try to analyze her more like a real person [G: Yeah.] rather than a woman in Supernatural because she's going to be in so much of Season 6 that it doesn't make sense to dismiss her every time she's on screen. [G: Yeah, okay, so.] But it is hard. [laughs] But yeah.
G: I think right now, what we ought to do is just discuss this as it is right now, which is that it's a really stupid thing that Supernatural did. And like, we need to get it out of our system here, because in Season 6, I think it's our responsibility, I think, to like, engage with the Lisa storyline as benevolently towards Lisa as possible or something. [C: Yeah.] Yeah, this is so stupid. [both laugh] And like, you know, Dean steps in, and then, like, Lisa hugs him, and goes, "It's okay. It's going to be okay."
C: Like, are you his mommy? What is this? [laughs]
G: What is this? And it's just like, this is what I was trying to compare with earlier with Sam with like, Jess, but the thing with Sam and Jess in their apple tart life was that like, Jess doesn't know anything. And like, Sam wasn't in active trauma mode in college, which is a very different dynamic from Dean and Lisa, where Lisa knows that stuff happened, but doesn't know anything about anything about it. And it's like, having to play the role of being like, careful and walking on eggshells around this guy while she is also taking care of a child. Which like, I don't know. It's just an incredibly different dynamic. And like, I understand that what they're trying to do is that "it's not just Lisa, it's the family!" Like, she has a kid. And I remember when they were trying to do the Lisa thing earlier this season, and we both said that like, why not Cassie? And it's like, that's probably for the best, because if it was with Cassie, that's gonna be a toddler. And it's like, maybe it's better that it's like, a 13- or 12-year-old kid.
C: Is he really that old?
G: I think so. 12? Yeah?
C: I'm gonna look up Ben Braeden. Well, no, okay. He had a fling with Lisa nearly 9 years prior, and then there's the 9 months of pregnancy, so he was probably turning 8 in season. [G: Yeah.] So yeah, I guess he's 10 to 11 now. [G: Yeah.] Yeah.
G: But yeah, I mean, so the point is to have a kid. But yeah, I don't know. It's just, the way they characterize Lisa is like, what is this?
C: She's just been here waiting for him the whole time.
G: She's just been here waiting for him, like, yeah. And I don't know. Again-
C: This is also how they characterize Kate Milligan.
G: Yeah, I'm trying to- I guess I'm gonna try to hold out severe judgments until Season 6, so.
C: Yeah, I think the way I have to approach it is just like, "This is what I see on screen. What is the type of person who would be like this?" and then try to just fill that in with a complete person. [G: Yeah.] Like, okay. Say she has been waiting for Dean the whole time. Like, why do we think that is?
G: Yeah. I don't know. [laughs] I think maybe she just got freaked out by Dean last time, and it's not like she was waiting for Dean. It was more of a, "Oh, thank god this guy I thought was going to kill himself or something is alive!"
C: Yeah. But I also feel like if you're someone who cares or is nervous about it, like, you start throwing a bunch of questions, right? There's a kind of franticness that she just doesn't represent because she's just meant to be this calming presence.
G: Yeah, that's the thing.
C: No, okay, I'm getting off the- Okay. I need to think of her as a real person.
G: Because they've done Amelia with Jimmy, so like- Oh my god, Jimmy's dead. RIP. But like, they did Amelia, and they did her well. [C: Yeah, I liked her.] I think her characterization was like- she felt like a person who was actually experiencing this shit. But like, for some reason, they just completely missed the mark on Lisa. At least here, yeah.
C: Yeah. And I get- Okay, she finds out monsters are real, and Dean saves her son's life. I get like- I don't know if you're sort of unsatisfied, I get like, making a big deal of that in your head, especially because it was like, linked with an extremely stressful time of her life, and like, her learning a lot of new things about the world. I get like- I don't know. Sort of putting Dean on some sort of hero hot guy pedestal after that. And then, yeah, he comes by. He worries her a lot. And then he comes back. I think there's enough adrenaline associated with him that she might just be like, "Okay, yeah, let's be chill and try to have him stay." But I don't know. Is that the vibe? What is the vibe? I don't know. I mean, apparently, she talked about him to her friends before Season 3 as the best lay she's ever had, [G: Yeah.] so she has had a long term sort of thing for Dean.
G: I think, okay. You know what? I berate her so much. If I was in her position, I think I'd let- not Dean, but like, you know, a person who is [laughs] akin to Dean in my life, into my life. I think maybe I'll do it, so I don't know.
C: Yeah. Like, you're worried about this person. This person is also exciting and [G: Yeah.] you're kind of bored.
G: Yeah, or like, I don't know. But like, I think because we know for a fact that this isn't just like, helping Dean get back to his feet or something. It's- Dean will be the dad of the family now.
C: Yeah, she wants them to be Ben's dad. I think it's at that point where I start being like- Yeah.
G: Like, yeah, maybe I'll let this theoretical Dean into my life. But if I had a theoretical child, I won't be like, "Yeah, you can stay here forever and ever, and also, you're the father of this kid." Or the mother. I don't know. Gender diversity. [laughs]
C: Yeah, like I'd put you up in a hotel for a few weeks.
G: I think it's like, you can stay over for a bit until you get back to your feet, and I'll help you find a job if you want to do that, I'll help you find an apartment or something.
C: Yeah. And if during that time, he proves himself to be really good with Ben, and they like, fall into bed together a few times also, then I can see them getting to where they are in Season 6. But the immediacy doesn't make sense.
G: Yeah, I think what it is is that it just is like, a foregone conclusion that they're gonna be a family now, is the thing that bothers me. [C: Yeah.] Because if it was like, Lisa helped Dean back to his feet, and then, in Season 6, months or years later, they have ended up becoming a romantic couple, I'll be like, "Yeah, that makes sense. Why not?" But like, here, it's like, they just go right into it. Like, are they gonna fuck later tonight? [laughing] Like, what's the situation? What is the situation? What is the situation? What is the situation? I don't know.
C: I could not tell you. See, I feel like all of my making Lisa seem like a real person things involve, like, Dean sort of being an exciting fling thing that maybe develops more later. But yeah, this is very much like, "Here he is. My husband, home from the war." [G laughs]
G: You don't even know the guy! Well, whatever. I think we should move on 'cause etc. It like, zooms out slowly, and then Chuck goes, "So, what's it all add up to? It's hard to say. But me, I'd say this was a test for Sam and Dean. And I think they did alright." And then there's like, flashbacks, whatever. Yeah. "Up against good, evil, angels, demons, destiny, and God himself, they made their own choice. They chose family. And well, isn't that kind of the whole point?" No, it's not! It's hope! [both laugh] Yeah, you're lying to me!
C: You wrote that, Chuck. You should know.
G: Yeah. Anyway, you know, stuff's happening. Then we go back to Chuck, and he writes, "The End." And then he goes, "No doubt, endings are hard. But then again, what isn't?" [laughs] No, he says, "Nothing ever really ends, does it?" And then he like, gives a little bit of a smile, and then he disintegrates into the air. And he's God. RIP. No, not RIP. [C laughs] Amen? I don't know. [both laughing]
C: Yeah. Yeah, I think it's that.
G: I think it's Amen.
C: I'm a little confused by what he means by, "they chose family."
G: Yeah, [laughing] I did say we should discuss it, but now that we're here, I'm like, "I don't know." I don't know.
C: Okay, it's been a test for Sam and Dean. Okay, the test was is Dean gonna grow up and trust Sam enough that like, he's not gonna prevent Sam from doing this. And is Sam's-
G: [laughing] And is Sam gonna shove himself into a pit?
C: - love for Dean strong enough that he'll be able to wrest control back from Lucifer and throw himself into a big old hole? [G laughs] That's the test?
G: [laughing] I don't know. It-
C: And choosing family means respecting your brother from Dean and-
G: [laughing] But only if he wants to die. In other ways, you shouldn't respect him. [C: Uh-huh.] I don't know. I don't know. I mean- yeah. I think, no. Actually, you know what. In further analysis, I think what he's saying is that they made their own choice, and that is the point. In that they chose family- The point is the choice, not the family.
C: But like, how did they choose family, though?
G: Secret! [both laughing] I don't know. I think they chose family in that Dean decided that even if it means he'd die, he won't let Sam die alone. I think that's it.
C: Okay, sure. And then that is how Sam was able to wrest back control, 'cause Dean was there. [G: Yeah.] Or the Impala was there. [G: Yeah.] Literally, if Bobby had just driven the Impala over, and then stood to the side, it would have been fine, too. [laughs]
G: So yeah, I think the point is the choice, not the family.
C: Okay. Sure. Alright. I see it.
G: Hashtag abortion rights or whatever. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. So we go back- This scene, it boggles my mind. So we go back to Lisa's house, and we're like, looking through the window, and like, Dean is inside, and Lisa is on the counter, preparing food. And then she goes and like, serves the the food. And, like, Ben is also on the table.
C: Help in the kitchen, Dean.
G: Dean is drinking whiskey. [C: Yeah.] Why?
C: 'Cause- Yeah, she offered him a beer, so it doesn't really make sense.
G: I mean, I understand that people can drink whiskey, in houses, even, but like, it's dinner time. You're about to eat. You're about to eat. You've not done anything yet. You're about to eat. There's a kid in front of you. [C: Yeah.] Who- like, Lisa offered him whiskey?
C: Dean's looking off to the side away from Ben also, which is like, I feel like if your mother decides that you just have a new dad now, like, that new dad now should take some effort to talk to you. [laughs] [G: Yeah.] He's literally ignoring the child, swigging whiskey, and Lisa's like, "Yes. This is what I want."
G: I don't know what is it with the alcohol that really- Do you understand where my hesitation comes from? And also like, do you think it's reasonable? Like, he shouldn't be drinking whiskey here, I think, is my opinion.
C: Like, in this scene? In her house? In front of the kid? What's your particular objection.
G: Well, it's before the- I think whiskey is like, that's after food.
C: Oh, okay. [both laugh] That was it?
G: This is just a gourmet thing. No, but like, I think it's like, after food, and it's like, not with the children. I don't know. Because if this was wine, I'd probably be like, "It's fine." But I think whiskey is much more stronger than wine. [C: Yeah.] And I just, I don't know. Because I don't wanna come in here and be like, "If you're an alcoholic, you should like, not be near your children at all." Like, that's- 'Cause I'm afraid that it's gonna come off like that, right? [C: Uh-huh.] And that's why I'm asking like, do you think this is like, an appropriate thing for me to say? I just think like, again, it falls into the idea of like, Lisa, what is she doing? And what is Dean doing? And what is Ben thinking? I don't know. If you're a kid, and then some just random guy shows up, and he's like, I don't know, "I'm gonna be here for a while," and then he's drinking whiskey like, on the dinner table, it's like, have some courtesy. Have some decorum. I don't know. What do you think.
C: I think it is probably- like, on best behavior, one probably wouldn't do that. I think there are different norms in different families about like, drinking and the presence of children and all that. I think it's fine that he's doing it.
G: You think so? Okay.
C: And I don't think that Ben would necessarily think too much of it. I think that it speaks to a level of trust that Lisa has in Dean that I don't think is entirely earned. Yeah. I mean, it is kind of odd that it's the last shot of the season. [G: Yeah.] But I guess the point is just Dean's in a lot of pain, and he won't be able to fully commit himself to this. I think that the discomfort might be like, it's purposeful. [G: Intentional.] Yeah.
G: Okay. But the discomfort makes sense, you think?
C: I think you are supposed to- I think they do make it pretty clear that he's like, not looking at Ben while he's drinking. I think it is meant to be like a thing where he's not able to commit himself fully. But also, they are so in love with the idea that it's a given that they're just going to be a family now that it is kind of hard to know if the discomfort is intentional. I think the point is just Dean is in pain is the main point, and I don't know if there's an additional point.
G: But they also just drink whiskey all the time, so it could mean absolutely nothing. [laughs]
C: Yeah, I mean, they drink beer more than whiskey, but yeah, they do drink whiskey sometimes.
G: Yeah. Okay, well. [laughs] We zoom out of the house, and then there's like, a streetlight, and then it zaps out, and then there's someone beneath it. And then, like, we go to that someone. [laughs] And it's Sam, watching this entire thing. He's already back! [both laugh]
C: No, I'm so confused.
G: [laughing] It's been like, a day.
C: How was he in there for 200 years if this is tonight? Unless it was later?
G: I've been saying. I have been saying.
C: Is this meant to be like, a time skip?
G: I don't think it's a time skip. I think it's like, at most three days later. [laughs]
C: Okay, 'cause I thought this was like, tonight, right? Which means that Sam was in there for, like, what? Five hours? [both laughing] Well, okay, let's see. This confrontation happened at high noon, and he went in at like, around 12:07 or whatever because Michael was only gone for like, a few minutes. And then it's night. It's like, dinner time. So it's like, 7PM? So Sam was in there for like, seven hours?
G: Yeah, it is so incredibly funny to me that like, I don't know. When Cas was talking about- or when Anna was talking about- or I don't know, when the both of them were talking about how Cas got Dean out of Hell, Cas was like, "Oh, yeah, I lost an entire garrison. It was so difficult. We were like, on a time crunch, and we still didn't make it." And then he got Sam out in seven hours? [laughs]
C: Wait, wait, that implies- were they fighting through Hell for the whole like, four months or whatever while Dean was gone? Two months? [G: I think so, yeah.] Okay, I mean, I guess the Cage- maybe there's a shortcut to it.
G: [laughs] He just literally opened it up again with the rings and then just went in. So true.
C: No, that's true, because Dean pocketed the rings, right? So Cas could have just slipped them out of his pocket and done the incantation and then went in.
G: So true. Go, Cas.
-
G: Well, what did we think about this episode? I found it interesting. [C: It's fine.] I found it fun to talk about. I found it fun to watch. I found it pivotal. [C laughs] I found it influential. [laughs]
C: I found it fine. [G laughs]
G: Etc. Okay, Best Line/Worst Line. I would say my best line are the combo of Dean being like, "It's okay, it's okay, I'm here." and then Sam going, "It's okay. I got him." Like, those two lines, you know? I don't know. I think it's the "It's okay" part of it where they're like, trying to comfort each other where, you know, for Dean, it's like, "It's okay. You're not gonna die alone." For Sam, it's like, "It's okay. I'm going to be able to do this thing," which I think also reflects, like, their perspective on their roles and their priorities, etc.
C: Yeah, yeah, that's nice.
G: Wow! Analysis. [laughs] I'm so annoying! Okay, let's go.
C: I don't think I have any analyses. Best lines- I don't know. I think Lucifer was appropriately creepy with "All those times you ran away, you weren't running from them. You were running towards me." [G: Towards me!] And I think Cas was very cute when he went, "Oh, you want me to lie. It's gonna be okay!" [laughs]
G: So true. He is cute. I think my worst line is like, when Michael was like, "After what you've done?" [both laugh] or whatever, and then just never elaborated. It just makes Michael sound so vindictive.
C: Yeah. I didn't like when Dean called Cas a maybe slur.
G: Oh, yeah. He did call Cas a maybe slur. [C laughs] Spreadsheets. Okay. Misogyny, there is, and it is fundamental to the episode.
C: Yeah. But also, are we gonna end up putting points in every Season 6 episode where Lisa is present? Or should we just get all the Lisa points out of our system right now?
G: I think we can figure out what they're doing and how they're doing it, etc. Like, I think we can find a way to interface with nuance, etc. [C: Yeah.] I think the misogyny here is three. Yeah?
C: Yeah, that makes sense to me. Go for it.
G: Racism, I think, is 0?
C: Yes, I don't remember anything.
G: And homophobia. I do think that is here.
C: Yeah, I think "junkless sissy" should count as a homophobia. It's also a transmisogyny, but that would be included under misogyny, and we already gave it 3.
G: I think it's a 3. I think 1 and 2 is like, casual stuff. This one feels elevated from casual.
C: Huh. I mean, he calls Sam a pansy in Season 2, also, right? What did we give that?
G: I don't know. What episode is that?
C: Uh, "Tall Tales"? Season 2. Oh, we were only giving points per occurrence and not magnitude back then, so.
G: A failure in our duty and action.
C: I feel like I'm fine with a 3. I feel like I wouldn't have gone for a 3. I would have gone for a 2. But I'm fine with a 3.
G: Okay, let's do it. Okay, IMDb. Who's winning? Or we shouldn't say because, like- It's me. But like- [laughs] Next week. It's for next week's season ender wrap up. [C: Yeah.] Okay, so what's your guess?
C: It's high. [G: Of course.] 9.4.
G: Ah. Can I be honest? That is also my guess. Do you wanna guess something different for it?
C: So you're just gonna win because you're currently winning, and we'll have the same point differential if you vote the same as me? [G: Yeah.] I see.
G: Yeah, no, but I'm honest! I'm honest. I have integrity as a person and a podcaster.
C: You know what? I'm gonna change mine. I'm just gonna go big or go home. [G: Okay.] I'm gonna say 9.6, even though that's absolutely wrong.
G: How about I go bigger than you? [laughs]
C: No! [laughing] You're free to do whatever you want.
G: Okay, I'm going to go 9.7. No, I'm gonna go 9.8. Go big or go home. [C laughs] Is that too high? I feel like that's insane.
C: It's definitely not a 9.8, and I don't even think it's a 9.6, which is why I said a 9.4.
G: Okay, I'll put 9.8
C: What I should be doing is, I should be calculating the biggest point differential- or the smallest point differential I need from you in order for my average to actually reach yours, right?
G: Okay, let's do it. Sure, yeah. Figure it out.
C: I just think that'll take long, and I don't want to, actually. [G laughs] But that would be the right strat.
G: Okay, let's see. Okay, I'll see it now. So your guess is 9.6, and mine is 9.8. If it's lower than 9.6, you have a pretty good chance, I think, maybe. [C: Maybe.] I don't think it's lower than- I think it's actually exactly 9.6. [C: Really?] Yeah. Okay, [both] let's see. Oh! It's a 9.7! [laughing]
C: Oh my god! Look at that! World peace. Well.
G: World is a wonder, even. [C: Yeah.] Well, there's many user reviews.
C: Yeah, I'd assume so.
G: People enjoy it. "5 years in the making. Amazing." "The finale that should have been." Shut the fuck up. But it's true. [laughs] But you shouldn't say it!
C: "Most of us can't say enough about how terrific the show was, with the exception of one classy genius who felt that the episode was too emotional and that Dean should end up with a skanky chick." What is the- I don't understand. I want to know the source. I want to know what they're summarizing as this.
G: This one did make me feel feelings. This was in November 20, 2020- which is November 21 for you guys. It's just November 20 for me. It goes, "Sam and Dean and Cas and Bobby deserved this ending. An ending with emotion and meaning." And I'm like, "Aw!" The finale was so bad. [C: Yeah.] Yeah. At least you're gonna give a fuck, [laughs] just because it's so horrible. [C: It's true.] "Power of love." So true. "It all started with a car." Yeah, I think there's like, a lot of people after the finale going like, "This is what the ending should have been like." I don't know. People are just into it. Oh, this one says, "I don't get the hype." Let's see, what's your input? "I would say the episode was beautifully done and written well, especially how it started with talking about Baby, but as a serious ending, I don't like it because it has one brother in Hell and one above, and just like the actual series finale that I also don't like, it's not how I would want it to end." That's your problem! [C laughs] People are into it. This one says, "Anticlimactic. The show is starting to run out of ideas. [C: What?] It has done that a long time ago."
C: Well. It's gonna be a while.
G: That's pretty much it. Wow, we are done with Season 5!
C: Someone keeps calling the Lucifer!Sam "Lusamfer," [laughs] which is kind of fun.
G: Isn't it Samifer? Isn't that what they say?
C: Samifer's also the ship name, though, isn't it? [G: Ah.] So I feel like some people use it to say the guy, and some will use it to say the ship name. Lusamfer is a way around that, I suppose. [laughs]
G: Yeah. Okay, well, that’s it for this episode of Busty Asian Beauties. Next week, we will be doing a Season 5 wrap-up episode with a very special guest, so check that out, wait for it, etc.
C: Yeah. [G: Yeah!] Not like, a celebrity, though. Does it make it seem like it’s a celebrity? They’re a celebrity to me, but they're not a genuine celebrity.
G: They're a celebrity to me, but they’re not Misha Collins. [C: Yeah.] Thank god. [both laugh] Yeah. Leave us a rating or a review wherever you get your podcasts.
C: Follow us on social media! We are on Tumblr at bustyasianbeautiespod.tumblr.com. Our official tag is #BABPod, B-A-B-POD. Thanks to everyone who's donated to our Ko-Fi at ko-fi.com/bustyasianbeautiespod, which is where our outtakes live, and check out our merch at babpod.redbubble.com.
G: You can email us any feedback, comments, or inquiries at [email protected]. See you guys next time! [both] Bye!
[guitar music]
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The Masked Singer Season 5 Episode 4 Recap: Group B once again with a wildcard (Commentary & Guesses)
Hi everybody! Welcome or welcome back to Ana’s Masked Singer recap where I, Ana, recap every single episode of The Masked Singer. We’re back with Group B and this time we have a surprise wildcard which stay tuned until the end for that one. So yeah let’s get into that, starting with the *sigh* eliminated contestant (oof this one is gonna be um interesting to say the least because I have a lot of opinions and probably so do you so here we are... let’s do this)
The contestant who was eliminated this round was...
*DRUMROLL PLEASE*
Grandpa Monster ���� 👴🏻
Commentary: Am I surprised? Not in the slightest bit. He was honestly the weakest link of Group B, even though he didn’t suck, he was actually pretty ok (I am not gonna say good, ok is the best word I will use) , but he really ruined it with this performance of Bad Reputation by Joan Jett. It was like he was thinking who cares if I sound good, I am just gonna throw caution into the wind (is that how the saying goes? Idk). It kind of had the same energy as Sarah Pailin aka the bear in season 3 singing Baby Got Back. It wasn’t awful, just meh at best.
So yeah, he was revealed to be (as I unfortunately expected/guessed)...
*DRUMROLL PLEASE*
Logan Paul
Yeah, yeah, yeah... I know he be controversial and I am honestly not his fan by any means because those Paul brothers are the spawn of Satan especially the other one (that name is cursed, we don’t say it here), but you know what, I don’t think he’s the ABSOLUTE worst anymore, so I guess that’s a markup in his favor. He has stopped sucking, I gotta give him that, but I feel indifferent towards him right now, even though there are things that he has said that I am like hmmm why am I agreeing with you dude, stop being sensible. I know a lot of people were mad about this one and rightfully so, I wasn’t too thrilled either seeing him under the mask, but just think he’s gone so we won’t see him anymore. This was one of the only times where I wanted to be wrong, but here we are, 3rd correct guess of the season yay!
Anyways, let’s move on to the remaining 4 (yup wildcard included baby!):
1. Piglet 🐷
Commentary: He sang Good to be Alive by Andy Grammar and I really enjoyed it ngl even though it wasn’t my favorite of the night nor was it as good as his first one. He started off a bit shaky and then he really got into the groove of the song, I really liked it a lot. His voice is really smooth and sounds familiar *wink wink* 😉
Having said that, I am gonna double down on my guess of:
Nick Lachey
Clues/Reasoning:
Football clues and don’t be a ball hog= brooo get this... this man got kicked out of a football game for starting a fight with fans of the other team (like excuse me sir... what?! These celebs are crazy)
oh and in the first clue package he says how he falls so fast that he said I love you on the 2nd date= which is something that he did say to his wife Vanessa
Oh and Piglet can stay cool even in the heat= 98 degrees reference baby!
2. Black Swan 🦢🖤
Performance: OMG I KNEW THAT SHE WAS GONNA PICK A BETTER SONG AND THEN SMASH IT.... which she absolutely did omg best performance of the night. She sang In My Blood by Shawn Mendes and wow is all I have to say. She really redeemed herself with song choice, THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING AB... it suited her voice so well. It started out so pretty and sweet and then BAM STRONG AF VOCALS BABY! Like wow wow wow... she is so a contender for the finals!
Having said that, I know (again doubling down) that this has to be:
Jojo
Reasoning/Clues:
Globe = she has a tattoo of a world map
Red X= She was a guest judge on X Factor
Castle= she was offered the role of Hannah Montana but she turned it down
Scales= she had a lot of legal problems with her record labels
3. Chameleon 🦎
Commentary: So he sang (or should I say rapped) 21 Questions by 50 Cent ft Nate Dogg and hells yeah this man is a pro. He’s so on the pocket with the song, you can tell that he does this for a living, like it’s not like them athletes who rap, he’s in tune with the music and very much a performer not an athlete even tho he is tall. Even though, to me, he is the weakest amongst the ones still standing, he is still a really strong performer.
I know exactly who this is and I am pleased to double down on my guess of:
Wiz Khalifa
Reasoning/Clues:
Rainbow Paint Brush= this is a mention of his sister who is trans and passed away a couple of years ago in 2017 (also when he says he helps others shine & the someone special he helped lift up, it refers to how he helped his sister be herself)
Peaches= his mom’s name is Peachie
Taxi= reference to his infamous song Black and Yellow
History with precious gemstones= he dated AMBER Rose and u could say Amber is a precious gemstone and his song with Charlie Puth, See You Again, is certified DIAMOND wow
Now our wildcard baby! Let’s give it up for.... The Crab! 🦀
Commentary: He sang Ain’t No Sunshine by Bill Withers and I am gonna be honest: I was pleasantly surprised. Last week’s wildcard was meh to say the least so I didn’t expect anything grand this time and wow what a raspy wonderful tone I heard in this crab. There was this one note that he kept repeating and holding that I was like woah baby this man can sing! It was absolutely wonderful of a performance, I really enjoyed it.
Ok, now for my guess:
Bobby Brown
Reasoning/Clues:
Tragedy & darkness endured in his family= the death of Whitney Houston, their daughter Bobby Christina, and his son
Butterfly and Bee= BB aka his initials
2+3= he was born February 5th and his band New Edition had 5 members
That’s all folks! Sorry for the delay in posting this but tonight is the next show and apparently we are gonna see this group one more time for the Group B finals, so I will see you then, I can’t wait! Bye guys! Don’t forget to like, comment, and do all the social media things.
#the masked singer#themaskedsinger#hollywood#celebrities#the masked singer season 5#music#tv shows#competition
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A Christmas Story for You
To @whimsicallyenchantedrose for Christmas. While I haven’t had as much time for it as I had hoped, I hope you are having a wonderful Christmas and enjoy this little story that kind of got away from me. Merry Christmas and a very happy new year to you!
Due to illness and post graduate studies I’m a bit rusty on the fanfiction story writing, but I hope you enjoy it. I have loved the opportunity to be your secret santa. As I said from the beginning, I’m a big fan of your writing.
Getting to Know You at Christmas
Emma Swan hated to mingle at these social events her parents held each year as a welcome to the holiday season. Her mother easily socialized with people, remembering names and details of each person’s life in the coastal town of Storybrooke, Maine. Her father was just as gregarious, shaking hands and clapping older gentlemen on the back as the mused over details of long-ago exchanges and funny occurrences that she never quite could understand. She liked people, even had friends. But there was something missing for her from the conversations and laughter that seemed to lift over the swell of Christmas carols and the flashes of lights from the tree and cameras snapping shots of huddled groups of friends, family, and compatriots.
“Your mother is worried about you,” Ruby Lucas-Gale said with a knowing smile as Emma reached for another mini pizza and shoved it in whole. “You don’t look happy.”
Keeping her lips sealed, Emma shot her friend a plastered smile and shrug.
“You could at least move away from the bar. She’s going to think this is a re-do of last year’s party where you went to bed with a bottle of tequila under each arm after telling everyone that you were sleeping until the new year.”
“I should have kept that promise,” Emma groused, giving a slight wave when her mother looked at her pleadingly. “I could have avoided the Christmas Karaoke party at Victor’s, the cookie exchange at your grandmother’s, and let’s not forget the pot luck at Regina and Robin’s where I was shamed for bringing your grandmother’s frozen lasagna as my contribution. Not only had Regina made one, but I didn’t even realize it was still frozen.”
“You brought a pie too,” Ruby reminded her. “I don’t remember anyone noting that was store bought.”
“I ate it in the car working up the nerve to go inside because my mother set me up on a date. Who does that? Blind dates on Christmas?”
“She means well,” Ruby added consolingly, patting her hands down her red dress that seemed to creep up her toned thighs each time she moved. “And Graham was…”
Emma held up one hand in protest. “Don’t defend him. First he was your ex. He was nice but a little or more than a little too intense with his whole getting back to nature and communing with animals thing. My mother has horrible taste in men for me. For a woman who believes in fairy tales and calls my father her prince charming, I don’t think she would survive a day on Tinder.” It had been the long running commentary at the parties that somewhere in the crowd was there to be set up with Emma. Some who did not partake in the dancing or singing along around the piano would try to guess who it was going to be this year. Bets were currently on about a gawky man with a green tie who was currently chatting up Zelena Mills in the corner.
“Just remember she means well.” Linking arms with Emma, Ruby pulled her friend out onto the makeshift dance floor and began to sway her hips to the beat of a modern Christmas tune that Emma knew was by some current pop singer. “So I’m guessing your next date is in here somewhere. Where oh where could he be?”
“You are annoying,” Emma pouted, folding her arms over her chest yet still swaying a bit to the up-tempo beat. “I thought you had money that guy in the green tie.” He was the typical type her mother would love to see her date. She could hear the school teacher turned public servant now telling her how she just knew he was the kind of guy she would love to get to know.
“Possibility,” Ruby said, tapping her bright red lips in mock thoughtfulness. “What about Archie?” He’s been hanging around over in that corner in a conversation with Regina and Robin for a little bit now. Seems to look over here every once in a while.”
“Everyone is looking at you, Ruby,” Emma hissed in exasperation. You are showing more skin that is advisable with the temperature and you’re currently bumping and grinding to Christmas tunes.”
“Maybe he’s setting up some pre-marital counseling for them. Okay…one of the guys from the mines? Leroy?”
“That’s a tad incestuous since they are practically my uncles.” Emma scanned the crowd to see her father and mother in conversation over by the French doors leading out to the patio that had been sprayed with twinkle lights and that included a new audio system he had spent the day fiddling with as her younger brother tried out the microphones in his own rendition of some sort of heavy metal meets classic rock rendition of Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. He was just 14 and still at that awkward stage, suffering the embarrassment of parents who doted and friends who loved to point that out to him. Her own son idolized him though. “I’m thinking he’s a no show. My mom is in her plotting mode. Look at the way she’s talking to my dad.”
Sure enough her parents were furtively whispering, her mother holding up a hand to hide her mouth as though nobody would notice. It would be debated for years to come which of the two women noticed him first though. A slender, tall man with piercing blue eyes and sardonic smile seemed to rush up to her parents and hug them in turn. Even though Emma couldn’t make out the words, her father gave the man his double shoulder clap before spinning him about to the crowd and pointing out a few people.
“Maybe him,” Ruby said, lifting onto the balls of her feet even higher than her shoes allowed and balancing herself against Emma. “He’s a hottie.”
“Doubtful,” Emma noted, swinging her gaze across the room to the man in the green tie who was now eating a banana and doing nothing for his resemblance to a simian creature as Ruby had declared. “I don’t have that sort of luck. My mother doesn’t…” She never got to finish the sentence when she noted who had just entered the party and made a line straight toward greeting her parents. Neal…the once love of her life turned affection into weapons and her self confidence into a puddle of what if. She was better now, but the sight of him seemed to jangle her nerves in a way that made her doubt her recovery. They managed to co-parent their son with little trouble, but he wasn’t one she wanted to see socially. The fact he always had a date on his arm just added to her discomfort.
Ruby was one of the few people who understood. Twirling her in the direction of the mystery man who was now noshing on a few of the crisp veggies without bothering to dip them into the various sauces, Ruby leaned in and whispered loudly in Emma’s ear. “Don’t question it. Just go introduce yourself. It’ll be less awkward that way.”
Emma would forever question the logic in that, but for the moment felt her feet begin to move one after the other and in no time she was standing in front of him. His eyes were even more striking up close and she caught a whiff of his cologne that was a spicey scent that she would later blame for her mouth watering and her words feeling like they slid off her tongue without regard to custom or reason.
“Emma,” she said by way of invitation. Her smile was a little forced and her hand held out in mid air a beat too long as he shoved a celery stick in his mouth and raised his own in greeting. “I guess my parents probably told you that.”
“Your parents?” he repeated, the smiled he was giving her lifted higher on the right side of his face as did his right eyebrow. He seemed to be surprised by her, almost as if he was not expecting the conversation. That irritated her a bit.
She gave a wave over her shoulder to where they stood by the fireplace. “Mary Margaret and David. The Nolans. You were just talking to them.”
“Aye, David and my older brother went to school together back in the day. They invited me to…”
She brushed off his explanation. “No, I get it. It’s so them. They don’t think I have any skills in that area at all. Apparently, they have given up on finding someone local.” She shrugged and when he seemed he wasn’t going to answer, she reached across and grabbed a carrot stick. Placing it in her mouth she made a face and immediately removed it. “Rabbit food.”
“You do know how to flatter man, love. I’m not sure I would want to be just one of the multitudes.” His smile was wider as he watched her, his questions about her easy and slick as she tried to explain that her parents were young when she was born and waited nearly two decades before their miracle child was born. He seemed to know nothing about her, which was odd for a set up. Maybe he was just being polite.
“So you’re not from around here,” she asked when he paused to take a drink. Even over the rim of the cup his eyebrows raised again. “I’m the sheriff. I sort of notice things like accents. I do sort of like accents like yours. Different than other guys around here.”
“Boston by way of London,” Killian answered. “And you, love? Always a resident of this seafaring town?”
“Most all my life,” she admitted, leaving out a few pit stops along the way. “Mom probably told you that the best place to take me for a dinner date is Granny’s. She loves it there, plus Granny will spy on us and give her updates every few minutes. I’m more into this Italian place near the docks. Awesome seafood and pasta. And their lasagna isn’t frozen. It’s more date like, I think. You know, checked table clothes, drippy candles, wine, and all that.”
“A classic romantic?” he asked, clearly amused.
“Well, I mean if we have to go out, it makes sense to go someplace like that.” She held out her hand and gestured to his phone. “I’ll give you my number in case mom hasn’t already. A date is a date, but might as well get a good meal out of it.”
“By all means,” he said, handing her the latest device on the market. She noted that he did everything with his right hand, his left staying next to his side and covered in a black glove. She was about to mention it when she heard her father’s voice and laughter.
“You’ve met our Emma,” David said, joining the duo at the table and placing one hand under Emma’s elbow. “Our daughter can be a bit blunt. I hope she hasn’t insulted you or made you change your mind.”
“Dad,” Emma said, swatting him playfully.
“She’s been absolutely brilliant,” Killian answered, shoving his phone in his pocket. “By the way, love, name’s Killian Jones. I don’t believe I properly introduced myself.”
David nodded knowingly. “Killian is here to work with your mother on her bid for the mayor’s office. He’s a wiz when it comes to all things in local politics. Very highly recommended.”
“Work for mom?” Emma asked weakly, trying to ignore the not quite so humble smile that played about Killian’s mouth. “You mean he’s not…”
“Of course, Regina is taking time off to plan her wedding and then get settled into married life. She recommended Killian to run your mom’s campaign since Archie is considering and Mal has already announced. Anyway, it is good you met. Killian’s going to need to talk to you about your role in promoting our family. Maybe you can meet up at Granny’s later this week.” David glanced around the room and gripped his daughter’s arm harder. “I wanted to introduce you to someone I met when I was buying supplies for the farm. His name is Walsh.”
Emma stammered a bit, her face turning pink as Killian continued to hold that smile that showed both bemusement and cockiness. “Walsh…”
“Go ahead, love,” Killian said. “We’ll finish our conversation at this Granny’s or perhaps you might like the atmosphere.”
Emma was sure that her face was bright red as his eyebrows lifted up and down in a way that made her wonder just what lascivious thoughts were rolling around in that head of his. She felt those blue eyes on her as her father made another excuse and led her over to the man in the green tie who was smiling nervously at her and oblivious to her discomfort and not so secret looks over at Killian Jones.
She nodded appropriately and even asked a few questions about Walsh and his furniture design business. Her own rental was outfitted with castoffs and hand me downs that had seemed comfortable and worn at the time. He was telling her why it was important to have pieces that spoke of her uniqueness and character. At least that was what she heard on the occasions she bothered to listen and didn’t internalize the flinches and groans as her parents introduced Killian Jones to every person in the room. She wasn’t pleased to see most of the single women giggling and flashing him flirtatious smiles that he easily returned. There was no need to be jealous, but still the emotion was creeping up her spine as she watched him actually kiss Ruby’s hand like something out of a novel.
“I could show you sometime,” Walsh interrupted. She jumped at being caught unaware and repeated the words back to him in hopes of making some sense of the situation. “My shop. I have some really beautiful pieces I think you would like.”
“Well, if I am ever in the market,” she said, realizing that he was holding out a business card with his personal number written on the back. “Have you met August and his father Marco. They do some of the most beautiful woodwork you have ever seen. Come on, I’ll introduce you.”
~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~
“We were right about the monkey guy,” Ruby said defeatedly, kicking off her shoes and reclining on the bed in Emma’s childhood bedroom. The room didn’t quite do justice to the angsty teen she had been, but still boasted teen idol posters of boy bands and even the dollhouse brought by Santa one year. “But that other guy was cute and quite the charmer. Even I was about to hit on him. I had such high hopes for your mother.”
Emma flinched as she unclipped her hair and left it to fall around her shoulders in soft waves. “Yeah, so he’s not my set up of the year. Yet I asked him out, sort of. I don’t know. I made a fool out of myself.”
“He didn’t seem too offended,” Ruby suggested. “I mean I was distracted once Dorothy agreed to dance but every time I looked in his direction he was looking in yours. And I might add that was pretty often.”
“Right, he was probably trying to figure out what was wrong with me.” Emma was about to bemoan her embarrassed state a little more when her phone dinged out one and then another text message. She reached over to grab it and groaned with the realization. It was Killian. Ruby immediately wanted to know what he had to say and proceeded to inspect the picture he sent just in case Emma was confused if he was the guy in the green tie or not.
“Emma, you might have had a rough start, but he’s hot. And he’s clearly interested. Why else would he text?” Passing the phone back, she shrugged. “And let’s face it, you and commitment aren’t that strong of allies. He’s from out of town. Mary Margaret said he travels all over to do these little campaigns. I’m seeing excellent fling material.”
The text was taunting her, a coy comment about Italian restaurants and then a reminder of who he was with the picture. “I should answer him. I mean it would be rude not to answer, right?”
“Your mother would say not to be rude to anyone, but I’m telling you there is no reason to be rude to that guy.” Ruby reached over and grabbed a 10 year old magazine from the table, clearly bored with the conversation. “But I mean it is up to you. Text him. Don’t text him. Your choice.” Ruby flipped the pages casually, bringing up what dresses Regina was going to want them to wear at her wedding. She insisted that red wouldn’t be that garish at a Christmas event. It wasn’t until Emma refused to correct her that Ruby even looked over cautiously. “You haven’t texted him?”
“I was thinking about it.”
“You like him, don’t you?” Ruby propped herself onto one elbow. “It’s written all over your face.”
Emma shoved the phone back in her bag and let her head loll against the mattress as she sat cross legged on the floor. She rarely was in this room now, but somehow it felt comfortable and almost nostalgic to discuss dating and boys with her friend just down the hall from her parents. At least she wasn’t practicing writing his name with hers or anything like that. “I don’t get crushes.”
“You’re much too tough for that.”
Emma wasn’t exactly wrong about her aversion to crushes. She was in her twenties and already sheriff of the small coastal town. She wore practical boots or sneakers more than heels and her long hair had not seen princess curls in months. This event at her parents was the first time she’d worn a dress except to church. “If I did, and I’m not saying I do, what difference does it make. I’m a grown woman, mother of a 10 year old, and I have a career. I’m hardly going to make cootie catchers and see if his name comes up after saying some horrible rhyme.”
Ruby nodded thoughtfully and went back to the magazine. “Not to mention horribly ugly and boring. I don’t know how I put up with you.”
“You are going to pay for that one, Ruby,” Emma laughed, tossing a pillow and joining in as Ruby cackled with laughter. They were both laughing so hard that Emma barely heard the familiar chirp of her phone ringing. Holding up a hand to silence her friend, she shushed her and reached for it. She only hoped she sounded less winded than she felt as she said her own name and waited for the response.
“I hope I didn’t call to late,” a male English accent sounded on the other end. Even without seeing him in person, she could already picture that bemused smirk and light in his eyes. “I meant to check back with you, love, but time got away from me and then you were gone.”
“Oh um…good…I mean great…I mean you didn’t call too late,” Emma gestured wildly at her friend who was making choking signs in response to her word vomit. “But why did you call?”
“Well, love, you did give me your number,” he reminded her. “I tried texting, but didn’t get a response. I thought perhaps you were screening, but I had to give it a shot. I was hoping you might have a bit of time for me tomorrow – breakfast perhaps? I know you said you preferred that little Italian place, but I have never known such an establishment to be open very early. Perhaps that Granny’s, you spoke of? We could save the Italian place for our dinner date. I have been craving some ravioli lately.”
“Date?” Emma stammered, ignoring the way that Ruby looked ready to pounce. “I…”
“You did sort of ask me out and I must say it was a masterful way to do so. I would love to accompany you for dinner, Emma. But first we have a bit of business to discuss about your mother’s campaign. Breakfast then? 8 a.m.? Granny’s?”
“I’ll be there,” she answered dully as he spoke politely for a moment about thanking her for her time.
~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~
Emma’s father had not gotten the memo that she was going out for breakfast, as he was flipping pancakes onto a large plate as she descended the stairs, handed her son his permission slip for the field trip, and dodged the family’s collie that seemed to be underfoot. Her mother showed no signs of worry as she sipped her morning coffee and reminded Emma to wear a scarf and hat as she consoled her husband that there were not too many pancakes and Emma wouldn’t have eaten them all anyway.
She pulled her yellow bug up in front of the diner, taking the last of the spots at 8:05 a.m. That was early for her and not a big worry that she was late for meeting with Killian. That was until she walked in, kicked a bit of the snow off her boots (the black ones with a heel that were in her old closet and could not be described as practical – don’t judge), and spied Killian at one of the booths talking to Tink. The bubbly blonde was petite and perfect, a face and voice like a cherub in a painting. Every year she had the solo at the church choir’s Christmas Eve performance and every year people wiped away tears at her beautiful rendition. She didn’t look very angelic as she perched on the edge of her seat and leaned forward to talk animatedly with Killian. Her smile flashing at him and even an occasional stroke of his arm with her hand to emphasize a point. Even in the 90 seconds she had been standing there kicking her boots and unwinding the mile long scarf from her mother, she had watched the waitress stop by and lean across the table to give Killian quite the view down her shirt.
Ruby must have noticed too, as she left her spot behind the counter and fluffed Emma’s hair with an encouraging nod and a teasing note that Emma was wearing lip gloss. Spinning her with one hand on her shoulder, Ruby sort of nudged her in the direction of the booth with a hissed reminder to smile.
“Killian,” Emma said, ignoring the pout from Tink, whose real name was Isabella but didn’t want to be confused with the town librarian, Belle, “sorry I’m late.”
“Don’t trouble yourself, love,” he said, scooting out to stand as she arrived. “I was going over a few notes for the kick off and Tink here was catching me up on some of the ideocracies that make small town politics so fun.”
Emma flashed a quick smile at her childhood friend, watching her slink out of the booth and tell Killian she was in the town directory if he wanted to call. He did not follow her with his eyes as she sashayed toward the door, nor did he smirk like Emma wanted to do when Ruby called after Tink to tell her that she still owed for her morning tea. It wasn’t that she disliked Tink, but there was that feeling that made her feel ill when she saw her flirting with Killian.
He gestured for her to sit down a simple glance toward the counter sent the waitress scrambling to bring them menus and take their orders. Or maybe it was just his order, as he had to call her back to get Emma’s. Despite his seemingly healthy eating style the night before, he matched her order of a hot chocolate with whipped cream and cinnamon. Granny had even fancied it up with chocolate shavings.
His questions were easy at first, wanting to know about her childhood and then her job. While a few were personal, he did not seem to be prying. She even managed to ask him a few and he offered some answers of his own without objecting too loudly and then quickly getting them back on track. She learned of his naval experience that paid for his education and how he had become involved in the campaigns and politics of small cities and his love of the ocean and aged rum.
“So is your position as sheriff an elected one?” he asked, casually resting back in the vinyl seat across from her.
She was taking two sips to his one when she noticed the way he smiled as he watched her. Instinctively she raised her hand up to swipe at the whipped cream that might have gathered on her nose but found none. “What?” she asked in exasperation. “Did I make a mess?”
“No, I am simply enjoying watching you share your experiences as sheriff. Your passion for it shines on your face, love.”
She knew she was probably blushing and rolled her fork through the home fries as a distraction.
~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~
For the next few days they saw each other often. There was the announcement of her mother’s candidacy where she helped place signage. She ran into him when she went to inspect a license of one of the vendors at the skating rink and ended up sharing a drink and conversation. While pondering which type of creamer to buy, he popped up out of no where and offered a suggestion. He was even there when the church choir had a rehearsal, claiming he was talking to some potential volunteers. He did apologize for that when the choir director called Emma out for missing two of her cues in a row because she was watching him, in the words of Regina, make doe eyes at her and silently flirt.
In the mean time, her mother had been talking up Walsh’s skills in design and potential as a date for Emma. There was now a gaping hole in the living room at the farm house where her mother was having him design a custom entertainment center. Her brother was already complaining that the television on the floor was not the greatest idea. Emma tried to explain Walsh wasn’t her type, but her mother wasn’t hearing it and was asking when she was seeing him again. Given that she had not saved his number and had mutually agreed with him that they weren’t really each other’s type it seemed unlikely. However, Mary Margaret was so cutely sure she had done well this year that Emma hadn’t the heart to tell her.
One morning over doughnuts at the station her mother read the speech Killian had written for her campaign and asked her daughter for feedback. Emma offered a few remarks as the woman adjusted the clutter on her father’s desk.
“I think he’s handsome,” her mother said at one point. “Kinda has that mysterious look to him.”
“Who?” Emma asked distractedly. “Dad?”
It was the pronoun game.
“No, I was talking about…” The phone ringing cut off what Emma was sure was a pep talk about Walsh. The conversation was left unfinished as Emma went to investigate the case of the missing trash can lids. Spoiler: some of the kids were using them for sledding.
It was a full two days later before she saw Killian again. Granted he had texted a few times and called her “by accident” when he claimed he had meant to call her mother to discuss strategy. He was humming a tune and scrolling through his tablet when she and her son, Henry, spotted him inside the library. Apparently, he had set up shop in the corner and had everything but a receptionist there to greet visitors. Her son, who had heard his name a few times from his grandparents, pointed him out in a totally obvious way that made Emma want to crawl under the table. Somehow she managed to take a few steps closer and do more than the wave she originally planned.
“Nice office,” she said of the table he had commandeered. “Quiet I guess.”
“It has it’s perks,” he offered. “I was heading over to talk to your father. He said he would be at the station this afternoon. I take it you are not?”
“Short break to get my son home before I go back to face the files on my desk.” She knew her son was already done checking out his three books and would be joining them any second. She only hoped he would not blurt out an inappropriate question. She was about to send up a silent prayer when she noted that the glove Killian normally wore on his left hand was off and a synthetic material prosthetic was in its place. Before she could say anything, he looked down at the hand as though surprised by it and shrugged.
“Naval accident, an accident.”
“I’m sorry I didn’t realize,” she said not sure what else to say about it. It was clearly an old injury and hardly one she had a blame in causing.
“Tis an old pain,” he told her. “Most days I don’t really think of it.”
She nodded, glancing at her son who was still in conversation with Belle. “Does that mean you are getting more comfortable with me?” She instantly regretted saying that, as it came off a little weak.
“You do seem to put me at ease, love.” He winked at her and leaned a little to the left as her son ran up beside her. “You, lad, must be Henry. Your grandparents tell me you are quite the author.”
Henry nodded enthusiastically and continued the conversation for a few more beats, nearly forgetting his mother was there. Even a comment from another patron, Will, that Killian was clearly trying to get to the mother through the son, went unnoticed by all but Emma who stood taller and tried to let it slide. Killian was quite the conversationalist, observantly noting that Henry was holding a book on piracy along the New England states. That really got them going until Emma reminded Henry that she needed to drop him off at home to meet the tutor and get back to work.
That was how she ended up with Killian sitting in her living room and then the two of them walking side by side back to the station to interview her father. He opened doors for her, asked her less probing questions, and complimented the way she handled one of the boys known for getting into trouble with a stern look and warning. She was starting to feel natural about it all when he stopped short at the wreath decorated double doors and scratched behind his ear.
“I was wondering, love,” he said, shifting his eyes to the door and back to her again. “Rather I was hoping you might…well, bloody hell, I was hoping to ask you on that date. I gather you weren’t aware of who I was or why I was here when you sort of asked me.”
“I thought you were the guy my parents set me up with this year. It wasn’t my finest moment.”
He smiled nervously, his lips tight and his eyes again darting to the doors. She realized he was looking to see if her father was lurking. “It was rather adorable actually and I was thinking…”
She closed her eyes as he searched for the words, something she was sure he rarely did in his life. He always seemed to know the perfect thing to say and the perfect way to say it. “Killian, you don’t have to…”
“And if I want to?”
“Then maybe we could meet up tomorrow evening? Or wait no…tomorrow is the winter carnival for the kids at the orphanage and I am hosting the movie portion. Maybe Thursday…no Henry’s got his soccer game. I would say Friday but I’ve got choir practice and Saturday is mom’s campaign rally.” She truly looked sorry about her schedule as she shifted from one foot to the other.
“Busy lass,” he muttered. “I suppose we’ll have to consider another time. Or by chance are you free this evening?”
Biting down on her lip, she closed her eyes briefly. “I want to say yes, but my father is in there and I’d rather not mention this to him. And given that my son is likely to either eat potato chips and chocolate milk for dinner, stay up past bedtime for video games or inappropriate movies, or worst yet burn the place down in an attempt to see what he can melt in the oven, I’m thinking I need a back up babysitting plan that doesn’t include my parents.”
“Rather not hear the I told you so? Or are you hoping to keep me your little secret?”
“My parents are a little on the enthusiastic side when it comes to my love life.” She tilted her head back for a moment and then made eye contact again. “I have a plan, but you have to swear to me that we won’t be going to Granny’s or any place else they would be spotted.”
He assured her that paper napkins weren’t on the menu. “I have no issue with being circumspect, love. Trust me, I can plan an evening for us.”
If she didn’t trust him, she didn’t show it as he ushered her inside and greeted David. His cheeks were a little red from the cold and she knew hers were too. However, David never seemed to notice their conversation outside. She saw him pulling out his notes when she spoke up and asked David if Henry could perhaps have dinner with them. She managed to ask nonchalantly, simply a scheduling glitch.
“Any particular reason,” David asked, barely hiding his smile.
“I’m going out,” she answered vaguely, crossing her denim clad legs and pulling a stack of files into her lap. “Did you see Leroy’s file? I need to check about his court date.”
“Haven’t seen it. Anyone I know?” He was trying to watch her in the reflection of his computer screen, sneaking a few knowing looks at Killian who was flipping casually through his notebook.
“Oh you know,” she said, pausing to look at a document, “that guy from your party.” She didn’t want to lie to her dad, but she could tell he was not going to let up. It was one thing to have her father believe it was Walsh but another to flat out tell him that.
Killian seemed to understand, interrupting the awkwardness with a cheeky smile. “Since Emma appears to be on a deadline and you’ll be entertaining the lad this evening, it sounds like we need to get through these questions to prepare your wife’s talking points. Let’s start with the most obvious. You have a role that is second in command here at the station and in the community. How does that work with you effectively reporting to your own daughter?”
Emma let out a little sigh and as her father droned on about how proud he was of her, she shot Killian a grateful look. Her father seemed to take pride in both his work and how well she did her job, showing him pictures of celebrations after tough cases were solved and the commendations she had gotten from the governor. Most grown children worry that they aren’t successful enough or are somehow a disappointment to their parents. Emma didn’t have that worry when David Nolan talked about her.
He was still talking about how well Emma had worked with Regina who was stepping down to concentrate on her new life when Emma slipped out to change. Neither he nor Killian seemed to notice that she almost spoke up twice to tell Killian that maybe tonight wasn’t the best timing. Then she reminded herself of Ruby’s advice. He was a nice and more than good looking man. He didn’t even live here. So what if she went out with him. It was just fun.
She repeated that to herself as she went to her car to head home and change. That is until the realization hit that she didn’t really have anything to wear. A trip to one clothing store in town would rouse suspicion and the tailor was a friend of her mother’s. There was only one place to go.
~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~
“No leather, no spiked heels, no red, no plunging necklines, and I would preferably like to sit down without flashing everyone in town,” Emma said as Ruby dove into the bowels of her closet up above Granny’s. The woman had squealed, hugged Emma, and asked if certain parts had been shaved or waxed. Emma assured her that was not an issue and that she just needed something that didn’t have the capacity for her shoulder or hip holster. Ruby had of course said she had just the thing.
With no sign of her wardrobe addition, Emma looked at her phone and two unread texts.
Killian: Your father is in search of your old scouting badges. I feel like we should have code words. Perhaps not. Meet me at the docks at 7?
She answered quickly, not wanting Ruby to interfere with the response that would probably be inappropriate. A quick see you then and an internally debated smiley emoji would have to suffice. The next message was from her mother.
Mom: David says you have a date. Very exciting. When you come by to pick Henry up, I want to hear all about it. I’ll wait up.
Her mother was going to be an issue. She loved the eternal optimist that was her mother, a woman who had more than her fair share of darkness, including losing two parents early in life, but rose above it to see the good in people. Wasn’t that what Emma was doing. She was seeing the good in Killian despite the voices inside that said this was a bad idea. Well, she could rationalize it that way. Her mother truly wanted a happily ever after for her daughter, something even Emma couldn’t disagree with in scheme of things. The fact that her mother even believed in such things was pretty amazing.
Ruby emerged with a black dress that looked more like a set of random strips all stitched together. Beneath it was a red dress that flared out and looked more appropriate for dancing. And beneath that was a soft mauve frock with a full skirt and wrapped bodice. She knew that was the one she wanted to wear, but knowing Ruby she had to at least try the others. Half an hour later she was wearing the lighter colored dress, matching nude heels, and her hair was what her friend called casually curled.
She was standing with her arms crossed for warmth at the docks at 7:01 when Killian emerged from one of the sailboats with a single red rose in his hands. “Apparently,” he said, steadily walking the gang plank despite the swell of the waves that had her not quite sure if she was standing still or not, “it is nearly impossible to procure just a rose this time of year. You almost ended up with a pot of poinsettias.”
“It’s beautiful,” she remarked. “You didn’t have to go to the trouble.”
He assured her that it was no trouble and that she was beautiful herself. Below deck he had a small table set with real dishes and flatware, a bottle of wine and containers of pastas and sauces from the Italian restaurant she had mentioned. The only thing, he mused, was that he could not do the candles since such items were not really safe on a boat.
“Confession time,” he said, clinking his glass with hers. “I borrowed the boat. I don’t have one here in Storybrooke.”
“I knew that,” she admitted. “It’s my uncle Leroy’s boat.”
“Short man, scruffy looking, kind of grumpy?”
“Always grumpy, yes. It’s nice of you though. Not too many prying eyes.”
He took a sip and pondered that for a moment. “I take it that you would prefer to keep things clandestine just in case. I am also guessing that you gave the information to your friend Ruby just in case I turn out to be a murderer.”
“I can take care of myself.” She squared her shoulders off.
“Aye, I believe you can, love.”
The rest of the meal passed with pleasant conversation and only a few awkward pauses that were usually filled before it got to be too much. Killian had even brought along a set of speakers to stream music allowing them to dance. It was a tough that even Emma thought was sweet as his arms were around her in a way that she admitted fit. She wasn’t sure how much life was left in his phone or when the clouds that had been building all day would open up with snow, but time seemed to stand still as they swayed. Her eyes closed and her head resting against his right shoulder. He lifted their entwined hands and softly kissed hers. She was glad her eyes were closed and her head nestled against his chest.
She could feel his breathing change and his hold feeling tense. Her name came out as a whisper from him. She lifted her head and found his eyes searching hers. “Emma? I would very much like to kiss you.”
“I’m not sure you can handle that,” she teased in just as soft of a voice. Yet she closed the space between them and let him close the rest. Their lips touching softly at first and then with more passion. Her hands gripped at his shirt, pulling him toward her and his hand hovered at her hair before threading through it with a sort of awe she had never experienced.
They might have stayed like that for a while had the siren of her dad’s cruiser not shattered the cold and quiet night. Maybe they should have stayed below deck, ignored her father’s presence on the docks. However, that plan faded as his footsteps grew closer and she knew, just knew that someone had spotted them on Leroy’s boat and reported it. Resigned to the fate that her father was about to find out who her date was with and probably have an opinion about it, she took a step back and turned to climb up into the cold. While he said nothing, Killian placed his own jacket, a worn leather one, over her shoulders. It was a gentlemanly gesture and one that shouldn’t surprise her.
“Dad?” she asked, holding one hand over her eyes to shield it from the giant flakes falling silently from the sky. “Did something…”
Her father looked startled and even a little embarrassed to see her there. His breathing was normalizing when Killian emerged too, which sent his eyes wide and his gasp of surprise sharpening. “I didn’t realize…”
“Everything okay, mate?” Killian asked. His dark colored shirt and black vest offered little warmth against the plummeting temperatures. However, he did not indicate it by shivering or otherwise complaining.
“Sure…I mean I was just answering a call about someone attempting to break in cars when I saw Emma’s bug. Someone said they thought they saw the suspect run this way and…”
Emma gave her father a nod, taking a deep breath to switch back into her role as sheriff. “Any description?”
Her father’s eyes drifted to where Killian’s hand was covering hers and giving it a slight squeeze of reassurance. They narrowed and his voice faltered as he answered, “light colored hair, red sweatshirt, about 5’9”, thin.”
“Sounds like a juvenile,” Emma assessed. “I’m assuming we don’t have any camera visuals. Last time we investigated over here the cameras were malfunctioning and I haven’t noticed…”
“Emma,” her father said, his boots shuffling a little on the worn planks of the dock that were beginning to be covered in snow. “You don’t have to…I mean…You’re on a date…I guess you are.”
“Well, yeah,” she said, glancing at Killian who seemed to be enjoying the moment. Suddenly she felt the urge to clear up the misconceptions she had caused. “I didn’t mean to…” She cleared her throat. “I know you probably thought I meant I was seeing that Walsh guy.”
“Your mother’s buying an entertainment center from him,” David answered with confusion. “It’s not my business who…but where is Walsh?” He did manage to lower the flashlight and seem less ominous there on the docks, but still had his hand on his hip and was rocking backwards as he waited for explanations.
“I’m not really sure. I haven’t exactly seen him since the party.” Emma glanced at Killian who was standing closer to her than she realized. That wasn’t exactly unpleasant as a prospect. “Killian and I…”
“You and Killian,” he father parroted with the confusion that it hadn’t dawned on him. “You and Killian what?”
Killian gave her hand another squeeze and took a step forward as though offering himself as tribute. “Aye, mate. I do fancy your daughter and she and I have been spending time together.”
Blinking back at them, David appeared to running through the occasions he had seen them together and attempting to digest this information. “So the conversation about intentions toward Emma should be delivered to you and not Walsh?” It was too dark to know for sure, but Emma thought he looked a little disappointed.
She reminded him that there was a potential thief on the loose and he assured her he had it under control and to go back to her date. Killian just sort of shrugged and offered his analysis that it wasn’t that much of a secret after all. They talked a bit longer, took a slow walk toward her car, and both hopped in with him saying he would walk to Granny’s after she was safely at her parents with her son.
“That’s ridiculous,” she said, speeding up the wipers against the snow. “I can drop you off. No need for you to freeze.”
He looked toward her in the dark car and gave her a soft smile. “Your father is bound to have told your mother about our date, love. I know you had hoped to keep it secret. I only wanted to offer my services should you want them to fend off her disappointment and concern.” He jumped when she placed her hand over his prosthetic.
“I didn’t mean for it to be a secret. I guess I just don’t want to disappoint them with another failed attempt at matchmaking. My mother has to be ready to give up by now.”
“Perhaps,” he said thoughtfully, “she might have to give up anyway. If we were to date, surely she would not attempt to replace me each year.” Her hand jerked away fast, something he noticed. “I hoped you might want…”
She sighed, turning her car off the coastal road to the one that led toward town. “Killian, I am the one who originally asked you out. Even if that was a misunderstanding. I had fun. I enjoy spending time with you. But…”
“But?”
“But we live in two different cities. The special election is going to be over next month. What kind of relationship can we have when you’ll be off on your next job and I’ll still be here? I’m not 18 and free to wander around after you. I have a job, parents, a son, and responsibilities.”
“We could…”
“Killian, I like you. I like spending time with you, but I’m not interested in starting a go no where or long distance relationship. I want more than a pen pal. Think about it. You do too.” The driveway of the farmhouse was coming into sight and then disappeared as she passed it. “I’ll take you back to Granny’s. No sense in talking to my mother about this. We’ll just say it was a one time thing.”
“As you wish.” His voice was quiet, deep, and almost wistful.
~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~ CS ~~
As the holidays grew nearer, Emma’s parents and Killian went into campaign overdrive. There were photoshoots of the whole family on the farm. Her mother even managed to sneak in a few candid shots of Emma and Killian. Speaking of Mary Margaret, she was only mildly disappointed at Emma’s secret that she was not seeing Walsh. That was quickly erased as she said she had considered setting her daughter up with Killian, but was quickly dissuaded when her internal voice said her daughter would object. Nobody corrected her on it.
For his part, Killian worked hard and would try to sneak in time with Emma. They shared a few lunches, walked around the farm discussing a few strategies, and shopped together for a present for her parents. He sat with them on Christmas Eve when Emma performed with the choir for mass, looking just as in awe and proud as her parents did. He even joined them for the evening meal on Christmas, leaving behind a gift for Emma rather than making a big deal of her opening it in front of everyone.
As the wreathes were removed and the snow seemed not as white, the election day finally drew close and Killian was even more of a fixture. He was constantly showing up with a new tactic and shoving his client in front of cameras to announce a proposed initiative. Everything from illiteracy to hunger would be addressed by Mary Margaret Nolan for mayor. When election day arrived, more than 60% of the voters chose her and he beamed proudly from the sidelines. Most people noticed the hug shared between Emma and Killian, but it seemed to be just part of the celebration. It went so long into the night that nobody really saw the two of them saying goodbye the next morning.
“I wish it was different,” she admitted, folding her arms over her chest. “I’m sorry.”
“Perhaps someday, love. After all, nothing stays the same.”
She watched as the Uber driver loaded his bags and Killian reluctantly slid into the backseat. Their eyes were locked and the unsaid words hung in the air. She wasn’t sure she even breathed again until she was pulling up in front of her parents’ house. Her father was flipping pancakes, but her mother was at the doorway even as she dragged up the steps of the front porch.
“I like him,” her mother said. “He’s a good man.”
“Yeah,” Emma agreed, accepting the hug and hurrying in before the next gust of wind. “I just…I don’t want this every time we see each other. I don’t want to miss him and have the constant feel like a clock is counting down the hours.”
“I know, Emma. And that is very practical, but if you…”
Emma didn’t wait for her mom to finish the statement before greeting her father and asking about setting the table. It wouldn’t be the last time that her mother brought him up. She would over the next few months, mentioning seeing him at some event or another. Emma never asked, but her mother would always update her on his well being. It wasn’t that Emma didn’t know. He still called. He texted. When he was in the area he would invite her to dinner or to an event. She occasionally went but always told herself it was just casual. He never tried to kiss her again and she never sat herself too close to him, despite Ruby’s advice to do so.
A book he had mentioned to her once said of the protagonist and her lover turned best friend, “they would continue to call and write until eventually they were just acquaintances and no longer a real part of each other’s lives.” That’s what Emma resigned herself to when he didn’t answer her text or voicemail inviting him to her parents’ annual party. He’d been pretty scarce for the past few weeks. Their conversations short and usually interrupted by something or someone. She once even heard a female voice in the background and wondered if he was seeing someone. That idea hurt more than she wanted to admit.
She wore red to her parents’ party, her hair hanging loose and the smile on her face tense and unyielding. She was sipping on champagne and watching as Regina and Robin twirled around the room still in bliss nearly a year after their wedding. Walsh was there too, dancing with Zelena and inking a new design deal with Marco. Neal had brought Tink as his date, which made Emma roll her eyes. And her parents were at their prime greeting and hugging all of those in attendance.
“Emma,” her mother called out when a few more guests were greeted. “Come here. I want you to say hello to someone.”
Ruby gave her a sympathetic look as Emma begrudgingly dragged her feet over to where her parents were standing. And there he stood, Killian in a freshly pressed suit with a wide smile on his face as she approached. Her mother was giddy as she mockingly introduced them. “Emma, you remember my old campaign manager, Killian, right? Well, he was in town getting settled because his new job at the governor’s office starts next month. I was thinking that he might be just the kind of guy you’d like to get to know.”
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