#such a great dickbabs moment

[celaenaeiln]

It’s so interesting to see how people get into comics. I’ll admit that when I first started comics it was because I was a DickBabs fangirl and I hated Starfire because I liked DickBabs and I tried to find everything DickBabs was in and was surprised that they didn’t really have as much history/canon content as people made it out to be (this was before the nightmare of Tom Taylor DickBabs and now having them being shoved in everything) but now that I’ve read more comics and expanded on a lot of Dick’s relationships I see DickBabs more as friends and don’t really like them anymore.

yes yes yes!! Anon, you get me!!

I think you've seen the panel too where Bruce tells Barbara about how Dick will leave the alien for her instead. That panel used to be my holy Dickbabs grail. Fanon was so into them too, always talking about perfect they were for each other.

But all the comics combined, their relationship paints a vastly different story of them.

I feel like the problem is their relationship is based on the stereotype 'smart nerd and dumb jock' but that trope falls apart when attached to them because Dick is brilliant and Barbara is athletic. It's a 2000s feminism version of an empowering woman in a relationship but that dynamic really should have fallen out of practice because the way it's written is kinda toxic.

Not even getting into Tom Taylor's atrocity of their relationship, Dick and Babs operate best when they're not together. Dick's greatest moments are when Barbara is not by his side and Barbara's coolest moments are when she's working with the Birds of Prey or when she's aged up. (Congresswoman Barbara was freaking amazing.)

Also they just don't have chemistry. Like nothing in their "I love you"'s has any romance and I never felt so removed from a canon relationship than when watching them. It's like a 10 year old holding two dolls and forcing them to smooch. Passionless and with false dialogue.

They're great friends though. She's most cool headed when she's not dating him and she's best for him when he's not dating her because he's free to act independently.

[northoftheroad]

I know I just gave you an ask and you must be super busy, but what do you think abt Dickory vs Dickbabs?? Personally, I think Dickory is way better but in Tom Taylor’s run and the current runs, Dickbabs is the main ship. Anyways, I just wanted your opinion on it :D

Also thoughts on Tom Taylor’s run? I thought about it and I kinda have mixed feelings. On one hand, it’s great for fanservice and has some super cute and funny moments. On the other hand, the characters and their relationships are kinda one dimensional. Thoughts?? Take your time and thanks if you answer! <3

Hi, As I've said before (and I'm going to quote myself from older posts here quite a lot, if you happen to come across them 😉 ), I'm fine with both pairings as long as it's well written. I guess a lot of fans lean towards preferring what they grew up with and such like. I'm old enough to have started reading Batman when the idea of another Robin than Dick Grayson was ludicrous, and read the NTT in my slightly older teens. So I definitely have a nostalgic feeling for Dick/Kory.

I think they worked well because they were so different; they each learned from the other and grew as people. Being with Kory helped Dick become more emotionally open after some ten years of growing up with Bruce and Alfred. In NTT # 26, he talks about how he is too introspective and that Batman taught him to be guided by his head, not his heart. And in turn, I'd say Kory learned not always to be ruled by her emotions, and Dick helped to ground her on Earth. They had their fair share of problems, one obstacle was their different approach to relationships and sex. While Starfire is fine with being married to another guy, for reasons of state, but live with Dick, it takes Dick quite some time to come to terms with that he loves Kory enough to get over that. Dick and Kory were one of the most stable and loving couples in DC for over ten years. Now, in superhero comics, writers and/or editoral make the rules. There were plans to let them get married, but as far as I remember a change of editorial led to that being scrapped. We got Dick being raped by Mirage instead, and eventually, the couple split up. Disregarding that, I think you could very well see them growing apart. They were young when they started dating. I guess they were a couple for two-three years? At that age, it's not unreasonable to think they developed in ways that made them decide to go their separate ways.

If Dick and Kory were good because they were poles apart, I'd say Dick and Barbara are more alike. They have both worked with Batman; they are originally street-level detectives and athletes; they are used to work in similar ways. I could see them as a slightly more mature couple than Dick and Kory, being more in sync and relaxed with each other because they have similar backgrounds and shared experiences. (Which, of course, could make them a more boring couple in fiction…) I'm not a fan of the retcon that they've been friends since school, but they did work occasionally together as youngsters, so it can still make sense to write them as really good friends, imo. I honestly think Dick and Kory have been written as a good couple more than Dick and Barbara. Maybe things had been different if Devin Grayson had got the chance to tie up her long arc with Dick in Nightwing vol 2. Not that I think her run was without its problems, but it would presumably have been better if she had got the opportunity to finish what she started. The ending (or rather the absence of a decent ending) of her run, and the fact that the first Nightwing stories after Infinite Crisis were downright cringeworthy, has soured my impression of her writing of Dick/Babs. So I guess editorial decisions have ruined both Dick's most important relationships…?

I don't know if you're new to the debate about Dick/Kory vs. Dick/Barbara? Because it's sometimes a heated discussion, with people claiming he doesn't deserve either of them, he mistreated one or the other etc.

(Here's what Barbara herself had to say about Dick, by the way. In Birds of Prey # 71. By Gail Simone, art Ron Adrian and Rob Lea.)

I can definitely work myself up too much about fictional characters myself, but there are a few things I try to keep in mind… Fictional characters have no agency. Creators and editoral use them to tell stories (and sell stuff…). Don't get angry at fictional characters or, even worse, real people who love them. Also, reading comics is a lot about filling in the blanks between panels, and different readers can put a book down with very different pictures of what has happened. You can absolutely find examples where Dick has been written as behaving badly against both of them. Sometimes, it's a reasonable part of the writer's long game, sometimes it actually is bad and out-of-character writing. (And if you look, you can find examples where the women have been written as behaving badly against Dick too.)

Honestly, the most important thing for me when it comes to Dick and relationships is that he takes them very seriously indeed. Dick has not had a lot of one-night stands and is on record as saying he's not comfortable with casual sex. When he had one with Helena/Huntress, he wanted to talk about starting a relationship just because of that. When he (fake) married a girl to try to expose her as a murderer, he still avoided to sleep with her, and then he offered to stay with her when the case was closed, because he felt bad for deceiving her. Outside the blasted annual, I don't know of any time he was written as (knowingly) having sex with someone while he's in a relationship with another. Girls tend to break up with him, not the other way around. I'm sure other people have different ideas, and it can vary between writers and eras, but I think you can read Dick as someone who likes to be in a relationship, to be intimate with someone – but who's not into casual sex.

When it comes to Tom Taylor's run, I pretty much agree with you. I don't hate it, as some people seem to do, but I think the art has been the best part. It's mostly been pretty meh, TT has at several times spoken about how Nightwing is an A-lister among DC superheroes, but I don't think he shows it. And here and there he produces some really nice panels/pages (sometimes it's up to debate whether the characters are out of character or not). We're heading towards the end of his and Bruno Redondon's run and they've hinted he's going to stop being Nightwing. As if we need a third period of Dick not being Nightwing in ten years�� 🙄 The best writer of Nightwing vol 4 was Sam Humphries, in my opinion. Unfortunately, it was very short.

Ok, this post has definitely gone on long enough... but if you want to go deeper into the rabbit hole, here are some earlier posts.

[gffa]

Hey! Love your blog for the sw content but ngl you have me window shipping dickbabs more and more everyday. I’m not reeeeally a comics person unless it has quality online format but I have been known to enjoy cartoons. Do you have any show recs to get me into the batfam? Sorry if this has already been asked (and answered somewhere else). Thanks again for all your great content! Love your blog!

Hi! Thank you for the kind words and I'm glad to be helping to at least tempt you into this pit, and I wish I had better recs for you, but I've been turning this over in my head for the last couple of days and keep coming back to that I don't know that I would recommend most of the animated series or movies/TV series for DC. Even the best bets would be: - Young Justice 2010 cartoon, which is overall decent, but DickBabs doesn't happen until like season 3, I think? (And I think Dick dates Kory for awhile before that?) And they're a very minor part of the show, even the Batfam as a whole is only one aspect of the show, it's really a multi-fam kind of series. As long as you know that it will have some major differences in relationship and character dynamics (like Superboy in the show and Kon from the comics share certain aspects, but they are also vastly different and I'm not sure you'd recognize Kon as the same character), it's a fun show to watch overall! - Batman: The Animated Series 1992 + The New Batman Adventures 1997 was absolutely, incredibly groundbreaking at the time it came out, but that means it's 30 years old now and a lot of it is going to be incredibly dated compared to current stuff. I do still love it and the Dick/Babs episodes are TOP NOTCH (so much delicious yearning oh my god) and the flashback to when Dick was a kid are also great, but there's a LOT of basic cartoon action stuff that's not that exciting anymore and it might feel like a long haul. Cautiously recommended if you don't mind viewing it through an old-fashioned lens, don't mind that Dick tends to be more in his "angry teenage years" than his more settled 20s, and you're okay with zipping through any parts that bore you. - The Batman 2004 is another series that's pretty dated, but in a way I find deeply charming, because it really leaned into the gothic aesthetic and wasn't afraid to try some new things with the character designs. I usually suggest skipping forward to season 4 when Dick shows up (and I greatly enjoy his and Babs' dynamic, they're kids at the time, it's not a romance here, but it's not hard to see that one day they could grow up into the characters they'll be in other versions) but the whole show is just a good Batman cartoon! Honorable mentions: - Justice League: The Animated Series 2001 which I don't think Dick or Babs ever appeared in, but is still probably THE best DC animated series. It's not super complex, but what it did, it did very well, and is still pretty influential to this day. - If you don't mind reading an online comic, the Wayne Family Adventures webtoon is a very easy intro point, has very pretty art, and will get you reasonably familiar with the characters! (I sort of liken it to LEGO adaptations, it's meant to be light-hearted and occasionally genuinely touching, it focuses on extremes of the characters and memeable moments, rather than the more sharp-edged comics, but that makes it all the better for an entry point imo.) Beyond that, I can't really think of anything I would necessarily recommend to help get new fans into the Batfam characters (I wouldn't recommend the Harley Quinn show as a starting place for them, nor the Teen Titans cartoon, and I don't really personally care for any of the animated movies personally, other than maybe Super Sons, which was absolutely adorable and a great intro to Jon and Damian), because DC has a really weird track record on adapting them into non-comics mediums and I just enjoy the comics so much more. Though, if others have recs or would offer a rebuttal against some of the suggestions, feel free, because I would love to have easier ways into the comics

[dyinggraysons]

8 and 15 for Dick Grayson please :)

aw :) for better or for worse dick grayson is my bestie!!

8. What's something the fandom does when it comes to this character that you despise?

um…lots of things. but i want to add a disclaimer? obviously, there is a large fandom surrounding bat characters, some of which has little basis in actual comic/cartoon/movie canon. if someone wants to engage with these characters exclusively through (or primarily though) fandom, i honestly don’t care! i hope they have fun.

however, i’ve been reading batman comics since i was 11 years old (#cringe #embarrassing), so I’m going to be interpreting these characters a little differently from how they’ve been crafted in fandom.

what bothers me about fandom dick grayson is he’s often framed as being childish and unintelligent. yes, he’s a bit of a goofball! but he’s also somber and has some rage, ya know? grayson is just a guy who loves his friends but is constantly in his flop era (luv him though).

also the sexualization is becoming a bit much. it’s now spread into publications, and it just makes so mad. i do think comics should be a bit cheeky and naughty. superheroes are sexy, dude!but it was nearly impossible to find a batman-related comic from late 2021 to 2022 where there wasn’t a comment about dick grayson’s ass. that’s weird! any fun subversion is now totally lost.

15. What's your favorite ship for this character? (Doesn't matter if it's canon or not.)

literally this man and all his friends! dickkory is great! dickroy heck yeah! dickjoey makes me feel bananas (in a good way)! dickbabs has its moments. dick and vic?? people should be getting on that. there’s probs so many more but that’s what comes to mind rn.

sorry to all the dick and wally folks out there. it’s not my vibe :(

[lazaruspiss]

This is how the freaks can still win (making dickbabs a fucky ship)

No I do think it’s an underrated market, I went trawling through ao3 and theres not a single fic I could find that examines dickbabs as if they had kept that age gap, I feel betrayed and I’m going to start writing something about them when i get a chance

right?? reading some of their older moments hurts a bit bc they have all the ingredients of a great toxic ship, or even just a really interesting relationship. i have Thoughts.

On the fucky side: the concept of babs essentially playing a part in grooming dick without her even thinking much of it. listen to me. dick lost his virginity to an Adult Woman (not babs, just one of many other adults who took advantage) when he was 16, and i can only assume that his will-they-wont-they with babs set him up for that!! and the bits where bruce endorses babs in a way that he very much has not done with any other partner of dick's. like there's so much you could do with them. that's not even getting into the brubabs elements!! OR the pseudo sibling dynamic!!

On the less fucky and more in line with what I'd actually want in canon side: boys don't get to look up to women. like that's not really a thing in stories and especially not in a historically male dominated genre like superhero comics. so the potential that could've been there if they had leaned into the older sister/mentor role instead of aging babs down and taking away her authority in order to make an Unproblematic Romance?? it haunts me.

also if/when u write agegap dickbabs u have to tell me!! im starving here!!!

[ilovemanicures]

What I love about the new season of Young Justice:

EVERYTHING.

[csarites]

Here are my some of my favourite panels from Nightwing #83!!

pt 1.

that no one asked for, but i'm gonna do them anyway.

SPOILER ALERT FOR NIGHTWING #83!

1. This shot of Nightwing with the badass background.

I know we kinda saw this already since Tom Taylor posted an uncoloured version of this a couple weeks back, but this shot deserves to be on this list.

I love the colours as usual (Thank you, Adriano Lucas). Everything about this shot just fits so well together, his stance, the helicopter, the blinding light. It's all just *mwah* (chef's kiss).

10/10, makes a great PC wallpaper.

2. This panel of Babs, Tim and Dick.

There's something poetic about this panel. I'm not sure what it is, but it's definitely there.

Babs' concentrated, yet worried expression. Tim's tense, wide-eyed look. Dick seeming at ease, as if he's moving fluidly in the direction of the bullets whizzing around him.

It all ties together so perfectly.

3. This guy LMAO

Do I even need to say anything about this one?

Dude's so scared of Nightwing he just gives up, perfect comedic timing.

4. Dick's okay on the floor.

What a mood.

Look at Haley, she's like "r u ok dad".

5. This cute Batfam moment.

I just think it's cute that Dick is being held up by his situationship and his brother. He's so used to being the reliable one, it must be nice being able to rely on others.

6. This DickBabs moment.

He passes out and she's still there next to him. How sweet.

Also did anyone notice how Tim immediately went off panel as soon as he knew a DickBabs moment was taking place?

7. Dick and his community.

I love all the cameos in this Nightwing run.

Leslie is like the forgotten mother figure in Bruce's life. Not many people actually remember her and I'm glad Tom Taylor included her here. Reminding everyone that she does in fact exist and plays a pretty significant role in the Batman Family.

Obviously we saw the Teen Titans in the last issue too, but Dick being there and talking to them makes all the difference. He was kinda preoccupied in the last issue, so we didn't see him interact with any of his former teammates.

And finally, Lucius Fox, the current CEO of Wayne Enterprises. He's another one of the more forgotten characters in the Batman lore. I'm glad that Dick acknowledges him, and even went to him to talk about his idea.

8. Dick calls Clark his friend.

We all know Nightwing and Superman are friends, but this little addition is still a sweetener to the story nonetheless.

9. Clark disses Bruce.

As if Superman making a cameo in Nightwing isn't enough, he even disses Bruce Wayne!

How much better can this issue get? a lot.

10. Clark looked up to Alfred.

While it's no secret that Alfred has played an important role in a lot of the DC Universe's stories. It is absolutely wonderful that someone as significant as Superman acknowledges Alfred and all that he's done for the superhero community.

part 2 ->

[thychesters]

2,17 and 50 with DickBabs?

50 types of kisses 2. A small, fleeting kiss - which is immediately followed by a passionate, hungry kiss. 17. Tucking their hands beneath the other person’s shirt, just to watch them break the kiss and gasp in surprise at the sensation of cold/warm hands on their skin. 50. A kiss, followed by more that trail down the jaw and neck

Barbara Gordon does not giggle. She does, however, fail to hold back the small sound that slips out of her throat as Dick’s hands trail up her sides. His breath gathers at the side of her neck and she almost has to duck her head as goosebumps raise against the exposed skin there. It isn’t often that she goes to lengths to take great time and care in composing a particular updo, but it isn’t often that their date night turns into making appearances at a fundraising gala.

This isn’t the first time they’ve snuck off in the middle of one, either. One of the first times they’d sequestered themselves in the kitchen after managing to procure a plate of petit fours. Barbara had had some icing smeared at the corner of her mouth and Dick trying to gesture to it without saying anything had devolved into them making faces back and forth before they started telling one another stories.

At present, they’re tucked away in one of the rarely used hallways, folded into one another on one of the stupid overstuffed couches, the kind more for looks than use. As far as she is aware, their position in the living room had been cut short after Jason complained after a few tutoring sessions that they weren’t very comfortable, and his stammered apology when new ones were ordered had been met with Bruce leaning down with a conspiratorial whisper that he didn’t think they were comfortable either, but they had been great to jump on so long as Alfred didn’t catch you.

Dick angles his head again to nose at the corner of her jaw and the delicate skin there. While her hands glide over his shoulders, she keeps an ear out for any wayward souls headed their way, and then she cups his face with both hands to draw him in for a kiss.

With the angle off it’s short lived, though that doesn’t stop Dick from curling his hands just above her waist and leaning in again. His hair trails across her knuckles, and she makes a mental note that they’ll need to pause and make themselves presentable once more if they ever plan on rejoining the gala, but that thought is immediately overridden as he tugs her closer. He shifts like he plans on pressing her into the back of the couch, a move they’ve perfected on nights he swings by her apartment, and her hands fall to his shoulders to dig her nails into his jacket.

Their initial plan had only been to remove themselves for a breather, and the veranda had already been too crowded, so they’d settled for an empty corridor and only themselves for company. Barbara had rested her head on his shoulder after transitioning from her chair, and they’d chatted in low voices and barely smothered laughter at their commentary on some of tonight’s dancing. The conversation had lulled, just for a moment, and Dick had sighed before Barbara leveraged herself off his shoulder and kissed him.

“Dick,” she says now, as his hands dip dangerously low to the back of her dress that already dips dangerously low itself. “You know we should probably head out sometime soon.”

Her fingers twine in his hair, furthering musing it as he glances at her through his lashes. “Head out out or out of our hiding spot?”

Barbara goes to huff and then freezes as fingertips glide along her bare back, goosebumps trailing after them in their wake. She arches slightly, leaning into him, and even if she were across the room it would be hard to miss the way his lips quirk in a smirk he holds back.

“Something wrong?” he asks and nearly hisses before she realizes she’s clenched her hands. She eases her fingers out of his hair slowly, though that doesn’t stop his from skimming up her spine again, his touch warm in a stark contrast to the cool air circulating through this part of the manor. Galas and other gatherings are stuffy for more reasons than one.

“Shut up,” she murmurs while his one hand traces a nonsensical pattern across her shoulder blade.

“Hmm, make me,” Dick comes back with. To that she can’t help but laugh, and Dick follows as she pulls him into another kiss, this one longer than the others. The hand he doesn’t flatten against her back wanders up her neck to curl against the base of her skull. When he pulls away his lower lip is red and Barbara is sure her own don’t look much better. His next inhale is a little more ragged as she lets out one of her own. “Okay, that was a start.”

“A valiant attempt, if I do say so myself.”

“You should.”

“I did.”

Dick hums, loosening his grip a touch so as not to further disrupt the updo she put together, and then he stills as she slides her palms down the front of his suit. One of his lapels could use a quick touch up and it looks like they mashed his pocket square during their “breather.”

“Babs,” he murmurs, and she closes her eyes as he gives her a quick peck. She takes hold of his lapels, thumbs smoothing up and down before he pulls back and she opens her eyes again. “Thanks for coming with me tonight,” he says, tone sheepish, “I know this isn’t exactly either of our first choices.”

She shrugs a little. “Sure beats takeaway; besides, weren’t you the one telling me it’s nice to get out every once in a while?”

He makes a soft sound in the back of his throat. “I might have.”

“Or,” she says, giving his jacket a tug and tilting her head until her lips barely brush against his, “did you just want to see me get all dressed up?”

His exhale gathers at the dip in her lip before he swallows. The corner of his mouth ticks upwards. Her eyes may be hooded, but she can catch the traces of amusement in his that quickly flickers into something else as she ghosts her lips across his.

“Be honest,” she murmurs. “I know I have no complaints about the way you look tonight.”

“It could have played a small part,” he says, both hands resting against the small of her back as he wraps his arms around her. “I may have also just wanted to spend some time with you.”

“I’m sure,” Barbara hums, giving him a small peck, and he chases her mouth for a moment when she ducks her head, nosing at his jawline before making her way to the corner of his jaw. She casts a glance upwards to find his eyes slipping closed and chin jutting upwards as she presses a kiss to the tiny freckle at the edge of his jaw. Beneath the skin, she can feel his pulse thrumming as she traces a short path toward the column of his throat, and Dick stills at the open mouthed kiss she leaves.

She tells him they should probably head back soon, and he nods, though that doesn’t stop his hands from wandering. One of her own makes its way up to cup the opposite side of his throat.

The collar only gives her so much room to work with, and Barbara grazes her teeth along the exposed skin before pulling back. His features are flush when she meets his gaze again, and she starts and then laughs when he darts forward to kiss her nose.

[hood-ex]

Hey hey hope you’re doing well. Is the 1995-2009 Nightwing series good? I’d like to read it but I feel like it’s so long that it must get really bad at some point and I can’t go through another Ric Grayson-like scenario. Thanks!!

It... has its moments. I mean, tbh, the run worth reading from that entire volume is Tomasi's run which is Nightwing #140-153. So the last two story arcs of that series.

O'Neil's Nightwing series from 1995 (#1-4) is a short read. I don't think it's amazing or anything, but if you want to see Dick get his iconic fingerstripes Nightwing suit then you might take a look at it.

The only reason I would suggest reading Dixon's run (Nightwing #1-70) is to see how Dick first comes to Bludhaven and starts to build his reputation there. Now that is also gonna be the birth of cop!Dick (if that's something you're interested in) and cop!Dick carries on into Grayson's run. Also, Blockbuster is a villain that appears in this run and he's important for events in Grayson's run, but you could just read #1-15 for a decent introduction to the beef he has with Dick (*cough* and #16 has Dick building his own car if you wanna check that out too *cough*). I'd say a good storyline to read would be #54-#58 since it shows how Dick can handle himself in a sticky situation. If you're into dickbabs, it has some sweet dickbabs moments and a little whump. Bonus: the art is pretty in those issues.

Dixon also writes a retelling of the Nightwing origin in #101-106. Personally, I don't recommend his retelling, but if you want to see Dick interacting with Robin!Jason then I'd read it just for that.

Grayson's run (Nightwing #71-100 and then it continues on from #107-117) is what I like to think of as the trauma run. These are the issues that the fandom references a lot when talking about the major dark period in Dick's life. This run isn't necessarily great and I definitely wouldn't recommend starting with this run, but I would recommend reading it only if you want to understand what people are referencing when they talk about Dick's trauma from this period because there is so much trauma to unpack from it.

Jones's run (Nightwing #118-124) has a weird Dick and Jason storyline in it as well as the end of another one of Dick's relationships. If you enjoy Jason antagonizing Dick then I guess read it, but I don't really recommend it since it's a bit OOC and all. It's also just not that interesting.

Wolfman's run (Nightwing #125-137) kinda makes more sense if you're aware of the events of Infinite Crisis since it references moments from that. Well, specifically more for #125-128 which I would recommend reading.

Nightwing #138-139 are part of a tie-in event called The Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul. It shows Dick and Damian's first interaction as well as has some good Dick and Tim moments. If that interests you then I'd recommend reading them, but you might have to hunt down the other tie-in issues to understand the whole story.

After that is Tomasi's run which I mentioned at the start. Personally, I think his run has the best characterization for Dick out of the whole volume. The events at the end might be a little confusing for you since it overlaps with Bruce's "death" and the preparation for Dick to become Batman. As long as you know that info, I think it's pretty easy to understand what's going on.

[ablogthatishenceforthmine]

What I liked and Didn’t like about 3x07

Liked

Kory and Kom Dynamic: I am really liking what they are doing with this. It is the most nuanced and emotional affecting stuff of the episode, and of the season. Of all the dynamics in this season, there’s is the one with the best development. I found Kom’s story to be really heartbreaking, and I completely buy that Kory would start to come around on her. I do think Kom is telling the truth. I think in these moments she is being sincere and doesn’t have a larger plan at play. If she does betray Kory, I think it will not be a planned things, but something that may come up in a moment. And I love seeing Kory reckon with her this season, and past mistakes that she is made. I found it incredibly touching that Kory owned up to not being there for Kom in the past, and says that she is going try to do better now, and give Kom a chance now. Her telling Kom to join the team and giving her her suit was just really touching and heartwarming, and most of all, it felt earned. Their relationship has a real arc to it, and i am excited to see where it goes to from here. I know a lot of people are disappointed that Kom isn’t really a villain (although she may yet be, we don’t know), and I get that. But I think I might like what they are doing with them now better. It’s more intimate and character driven. What I will say, what I am upset is Kory not having her own villain to face (if Kom in fact never becomes a villain). And I definitely feel that loss bc it would be great for Kory’s character to have a villain that is so personal to her, where the conflict between them would be the emotional drive of the main plot of the season. I don’t have much hope that they will do that in later seasons with another villain for Kory. But if they would do both, that would have definitely been the ideal for me.

Kory making mistakes: And big ones at that! We know that she made mistakes in the past with her sister, and it’s great to see her recognizing that and growing. It may come back to bite her, but I think giving Kom and a chance and trying now to be the sister that she never was is the right thing for Kory to do. Regardless of outcome, I think this is something Kory needed to do for her own growth and morality. I also like that she makes a huge, terrible, deadly mistake in this episode by bringing the mobster’s son to her. The scene where the mob lady killed her own son was shocking and upsetting. And Kory is partially responsible for his death. Which i’m glad for. She was the one who brought him here, even though he didn’t want to. And though Kory was nothing but honest with him, there was some element of manipulation to her convincing him to go to this mother. It’s important that characters make mistakes that have consequences, and i’m glad they are doing this with Kory. What happened was truly horrifying. I’m also glad we get to see Kory crossing the moral lines, first with working with the mob, and then killing the mob lady out of anger. These moments make her a richer, more well-written character.

Titans have a win!: The show needed the titans to have this victory. For 6 episodes, Red Hood and Crane have been one step ahead of the Titans, always meeting them. Stories need rises and falls, peaks and valleys. It needed the titans to have a victory to give the plot momentum and more dramatic tension. So this was great! Although I have no doubt that there

51% Idea: I also really liked the 51% idea and the show exploring morally complex situations, and having characters struggle to find where the line is. You can see this in Kom’s story, in Kory teaming up with the mob, and in Dick and Barbara using oracle. 

Didn’t Like

Not seeing chaos in Gotham: We get told that Gotham is in chaos, but we don’t actually see it. We are told about the attacks, but don’t see them. This is a major problem in conveying the stakes. We know the titans are trying to stop Gotham from tearing itself apart, but we don’t actually see Gotham tearing itself apart. We are being told the stakes instead of feeling the,

Confusion about drug: Seeing gotham and the attacks would also help the effects of the drug more clear. We are told about the effects, but don’t really see them. I also have some questions about this drug. So it apparently turns normal people violent, where they can’t help but attacking other people. So are they completely out of control? Do they have any control over who they attack, or is it just whoever’s near? Is this the same version of the drug that Jason is on? Because he doesn’t seem out of control. Violent yes, but his violence is targeted. He doesn’t have the urge to just attack whoever is near him. He seems to have some control over his violent impulses. Is it the same for the others? Or is Jason’s drug different. This may get cleared up later, but I think it would have been better explained in this ep.

Exposition/procedural elements: A lot of time is spent this episode, and this season, just figuring things out. Figuring out locations of things, etc. But they are often figured out through such boring methods, such as computers, or going to a warehouse where nothing much happens. It’s very boring! Just too much time spent trying to learn info! Kory’s plot showed how to do this better, going to the mob is a more interesting awya to find out info than just looking it up in computer. It just feels like way to much energy and time is spent trying to figure out pieces of information, and not enough time spent on the titans taking action after learning information.

Dick and Barbara: Look I’m a dickkory shipper, so I was never gonna like Dickbabs. But man, I think there relationship is poorly written. I wasn’t even upset during the final scene where the kissed in the present day because I just found it so boring. The romance stuff between them feels awkward and forced. They have more of a friends chemistry than a romantic chemistry. So yeah, I just think the romance stuff between them is flat and boring. And their scenes are so repetitive! It’s just the same scene over and over and over again. They have a difference of opinion, they argue, Barbara tells Dick no or to go home, Dick doesn’t listen, and does whatever he wants to do anything, often behind Barbara’s back. Rinse and repeat. Over and over again. I thought that after 3x06, this would at least change. That we would see them work together better. But no, it’s still the same thing over and over again. It’ just really repetitive, and is getting tiring and boring. And their romance feels like it’s just going through the motions.

The writing of Barbara’s character: I like Barbara’s personality and she does have an internal life that the show cares about.  The show explores her thoughts, feelings, issues, and point of view. Except the mechanism through which this is being explored is her relationship with Dick. She only just barely exists outside of him. She has her own drives and goals and baggage, but again it is only being conveyed through her relationship with Dick. She doesn’t interact with any of the other characters, except for that one scene with Kory. So much of her character revolves around Dick.  It’s very disappointing. And I want more than anything for her to interact with and form bonds with the other titans. Even in this episode, when the team is celebrating together, she mostly converses with Dick in the few lines she has during that scene. Another problem I have with her character is that she is getting focus over some of the other characters. She is the third most prominent character this season (after Dick and then Kory). And it’s frustrating that this is the case when she is most likely a one-season character and there are long-lasting characters (Gar and Conner) that are getting shafted. Gar doesn’t have an arc (at least so far), and Conner’s arc is being minimized, only playing out in these a few, small moments per episode.

[bigskydreaming]

Tom is already rehashing some things, like too many homages to the nineties run, Zucco's daughter plot point, Beatrice had ideas for societal reform he's taking that and giving it to Dick. It'll probably be half hearted, but it stings that Beatrice left just a few issues ago and she's already completely forgotten for the sake of DickBabs or a love triangle.

Like the thing about the nineties runs is I mean, as much flack as we give various elements of them, there’s so much from that time period that was good? Great, even! Just....myself and the writers seem to have very different opinions on what the most interesting elements of the nineties comics were, oh well.

And omgggggg I’m still so mad about Bea, and its literally Shawn Tsang all over again. The writers keep introducing new, interesting characters, investing just enough time and focus into them to have us interested in them and wanting to see more.....and then they toss them aside to go back to drawing from the same well as always.

And the thing is, this isn’t even about me not really being a Dick/Babs shipper, because honestly, I’m not enjoying the Dick/Kory stuff in what I’ve seen of Titans Academy either, and for the exact same reason:

When they create new characters like Shawn and Bea, they KNOW they’re starting from scratch and need to build interest in those characters from the ground up. So they’re forced to put their best foot forward. There’s no short cut there, if you want people to care about a brand new character you have to give them REASONS to care. You have to make those characters likable, you have to make people WANT to root for them, you have to hook them with intriguing backstories that don’t feel formulaic and new angles that don’t feel just derivative of older characters, and that’s how we got stuff like Shawn’s history as a former sidekick to a villain and now running a support group for rogues trying to turn their lives around, and Bea’s work in societal reform.

But then the second they stop having the patience to build the new characters up enough that the interest in them can actually start to reach the levels that lets older characters last and grants longevity....they just toss them aside and move on....except they never really move on, just backwards. Because the problem with so MANY superhero couples, far from just Dick and Babs or Dick and Kory, is just....how lazy it seems to make so many canon writers. They just fall back on rehashing the same old tropes and just updating popular moments that resonated with fans in the past, now just recreated with a slightly more modern twist but without ever really being anything new. 

Even with ships that I’ve never really been sold on in the past like Dick/Babs, I’ve always said, there’s usually nothing stopping me from GAINING interest in them.....its just....the writers have to GIVE ME A REASON TO. And so many of DC’s writers just aren’t even trying. They’re just moving parts around and pushing characters together in various arrangements like everyone’s just a puzzle piece that you can mix and match however you want......and then just basically expecting readers to be interested purely because of who the characters are, or because it hinges on a nice moment that they then milk the hell out of without ever expanding that into building actual STORY around these moments but rather just squeezing each one til they get everything they possibly can out of it and moving on to the next as though its all just about chasing the next soundbite...because it is! LOL.

And honestly, this problem extends far beyond just the Nightwing title or the Batfam or Taylor’s run or writing in particular.....its a company wide issue right now. In fact I would bet just about anything that its a matter of editorial edict, that even before Taylor started his run DC said okay here’s the approach we want everyone taking with their stories right now:

And that’s like.....its all about banking on nostalgia and the comfort of the familiar right now. I think Taylor is drawing all these elements straight from the 90s Nightwing comics, like Blockbuster and Dick having been a cop, etc, because these are the elements of past Nightwing stories that are so well known. Its the same reasoning behind why they put Tim back as Robin and so many of their new characters are just new spins on old faves like Punchline and Harley Quinn, and why they’re pushing all these older ships that haven’t been together in ages and why specific team lineups are reappearing....its because nostalgia is the name of the game for DC right now, and all their writers are just pulling together threads of classic stories that have stood the test of time, figuring anything that landed particularly well with fans in the past will sell with people here and now, and weaving these threads together and brushing over them with a modern social issues veneer. 

As an approach, its basically all just about repackaging previously successful story moments and elements with just enough changes or in just new enough a configuration that readers aren’t likely to complain en masse that like “hey we literally already read all this. We’ve already BOUGHT these issues. When we were kids.” Its minimizing creative risk while maximizing monetary profit. Spend as little creative capital as possible outside of anything that’s already been successful in the past and as such is a relatively proven quantity, instead of testing new material that’s an unknown and runs the risk of falling flat and thus not being profitable.

And see, I’d almost guarantee that all THAT, that whole line-wide approach to DC’s storytelling, is because the powers that be looked at the last several years of stories and how many of THEM fell flat with readers, and decided that the problem was they’d BEEN trying too much new stuff and readers just didn’t like it. Because they WERE concentrating on presenting totally new stories and building up new ideas throughout their books.....but readers have been pretty vocal for years now about being disenchanted with most of DC’s major stories. And so DC I think looked at that and came to the conclusion that okay, people just don’t want new right now, they want the familiar.

But like.....DC’s problem IMO was never that they were trying new stuff? The reason so much of their new and original storylines weren’t gaining traction or bringing in readers and kept shedding old readers had absolutely NOTHING to do with them being new and previously unseen storylines, which makes falling back on nostalgia very much a non-solution to entirely the wrong problem.

No, DC’s problem for years has been that they’ve been all about spectacle instead of story. There’s ZERO emotional pay-off to any of their biggest plot twists or character beats, and emotion is LITERALLY what people read stories for. Its all about racing to the climactic action packed finish of every storyline and then immediately resetting everyone back to square one and jumping straight into the next big story, without ever giving the events of any of their stories time or reason to MATTER to the characters.....and if they don’t matter to the characters, our proxies that we’re viewing these stories through, then why should any of it matter to us? Why should any of it linger, dig in roots, resonate with us as moments that left an impact and that we accordingly want more of?

And again, like because I’m a Dick Grayson focused blog I’ve obviously largely been focused on how much I dislike the SPECIFIC reactions or non-reactions to so many of the major beats in his stories.....but it was spread throughout their entire line.

Bruce and Selina almost got married....but why should anyone care outside of Tom King’s title when nobody else seems to, no other characters feel anything about this, and Bruce in none of his other appearances seems the same as ever without any reminder that he just almost got married but then didn’t.....and if the characters don’t ever seem to be affected by or feeling a need to revisit or reflect on recent stories, why should we bother remembering them either? 

Jason was dramatically and fucked-upily (yes its a word, I totally looked it up and everything) exiled from Gotham....and then all of that is undone in a single issue with one low-stakes awkward conversation between him and Bruce. Damian quits as Robin and goes off the map and everyone in his family is like “hey don’t we have a littler brother, I feel like we did maybe” for one panel per story arc, and that’s it. Roy’s back from the dead and everybody’s like oh hey cool instead of the kind of return we used to get like when Donna came back and everyone was like oh shit, this MATTERS, because we MISSED you....just like Dick’s death never mattered to anyone but fans of his character because much like I was just saying earlier with them not really giving me a reason TO emotionally invest in Dick and Babs’ relationship if I wasn’t already, same thing with the aftermath of Forever Evil. They didn’t give anyone else reason to emotionally invest in that as something that HAPPENED to Dick and that he was AFFECTED by....because the writers didn’t bother writing him as all that affected by it and it was just like oh he’s a spy now, all that was last year’s content, we’ve moved on, keep up.

And on and on it goes. Ric Grayson was the same problem all over again. Rinse and repeat down the line with everyone from Wally to Donna and etc etc etc.

THAT’S why DC’s stories have been falling flat. It has nothing to do with people not being interested in new ideas, characters or directions, its that’s ALL they were giving us, but it was like just reading wiki summaries of events just alongside pretty art, but no real emotional weight or substance to anything we were reading....and thus, literally nothing that we couldn’t get much the same outcome from if we just...stuck to reading wiki summaries after the stories were over, with no real need to follow along with them. For years most fans have basically just been about keeping up to date with changes in the characters’ lives, but without feeling any real need to watch those changes unfold and play out.

And so honestly I worry we’re just gonna be subjected to a company wide rehashing of old and familiar storylines, directions and character beats, but repackaged and delivered in the exact same way DC was delivering us their new stories and ideas these past years....and its basically going to have the same results, because its the same problem. They didn’t actually fix anything by switching gears, they just shuffled around the actual issue.

And DC’s just gonna be like well now wtf are we doing wrong, we were so sure this would work, everyone LOVES nostalgia right? Did we pick the wrong stories and character beats to bring back?

When really its like......it honestly doesn’t matter WHICH stories and beats they rehash, because its not about them picking the ‘right ones,’ the real keepers, the stories that everyone really WAS eager to see brought back or made new again.....

Its about like, the only reason any of those stories or beats or dynamics stood the test of time and are still familiar and well-known....is because the stories AROUND those moments and ideas gave us reason to emotionally invest in them and retain them as crucial to our view of the characters and things that would resonate and stay with us for a long time.

It was never that any of those ideas or stories were just so innately brilliant that they couldn’t help BUT linger in the overall reader consciousness...it was the fact that we CARED about what happened in those moments and stories.

*Shrugs* But I mean hey, what do I know? I’m just a dude on the internet lolol. 

[corner-stories]

batfam

send me a fandom and i’ll tell you…

the first character i ever fell in love with:

Jason Todd (yes, i will confess that I was once a Jason Todd fangirl)

a character that i used to love/like, but now do not:

I hate to say it but Jason has changed so much over the years that I don't really like him anymore. I liked him pre-flashpoint bc he was an absolute bastard but also better written, but nowadays i don't really dig him

Admittedly I absolutely like the Arkham Knight portrayal of him because Troy Baker is an incredible actor but also instead of making him a sassy snarker they just lay on the angst and idk, i like it a bit more

a ship that i used to love/like, but now do not:

Tim and Cassie (wonder girl)

my ultimate favorite character™:

Steph or Cass or Tim. I love them all equally.

prettiest character:

I gotta admit i'm a sucker for Babs and her hot librarian look

my most hated character:

When writers attempt to make Bruce the ultimate badass who can predict every move he just gets boring for me. Also writers who gloss over his occasional mistreatment of his children really gets on my nerves.

I don't hate Bruce but some certain writers just make him very intolerable imo

my OTP:

Dickbabs

my NOTP:

Y'know as a kid I was very very into Wonderbat due to the DCAU so now no other Bruce ship really does it for me

favorite episode:

Recently I reread Teen Titans: Year One and the very layered portrayal of Dick's complicated relationship with Bruce (when he's barely sixteen even!) really spoke to me.

saddest death:

The OG Death in the Family comic still breaks my heart

favorite season:

Red Hood: Lost Days i.e what I think of when I think of Jason Todd

least favorite season:

lol remember Ric Grayson?

character that everyone else in the fandom loves, but i hate:

I think I've already established I don't really love the sassy snarky Jaybird of recent. A good Jason Todd doesn't need Roy Harper to be character assassinated to stand out

my ‘you’re piece of trash, but you’re still a fave’ fave:

Uhhhhh I formally reject this question to not get any more angry anons then I will already have

my ‘beautiful cinnamon roll who deserves better than this’ fave:

Listen I barely even know what DC is doing with Cassandra Cain rn but my instincts say that she deserves better

my ‘this ship is wrong, nasty, and makes me want to cleanse my soul, but i still love it’ ship:

Bc I haven't mentioned my fondness for pre-Flashpoint Jason enough I will confess my soft spot for JayDonna.

Especially because pre-Flashpoint they definitely bonded over the shared experience of dying and being reborn. Also that one NTT issue where Donna leads a squad with him in it has a very great character moment where Jason reminds her that she should stop treating him like he's Dick Grayson and it helps bring Donna back to earth when she struggles with leadership.

God, I can't believe I was dumb enough to believe that Titans United would build upon this dynamic.

my ‘they’re kind of cute, and i lowkey ship them, but i’m not too invested’ ship:

ehhhh can't think of anything rn

[popeheyward]

*titans 3x08 spoilers*

im excited to see where gar’s storyline goes, especially after the jason stuff has been resolved. it looks like they’re gonna finally let him turn into different animals, which is exciting!!

im a dickory shipper but dickbabs is cute. justin the therapist is cute too honestly. i still think dickory is gonna be endgame (assuming titans gets more seasons) so im just gonna enjoy the content regardless.

dick making a sandwich beforehand is a big mood bc the food at formal events is always tiny af.

kom and conner are growing on me; them looking at their respective planets together was sweet. the direction they went w/ her was unexpected but i like it more than another villain storyline. if even half of what she told kory is true, then their parents weren’t great and it sounds like her killing them was more self-defense than murder. i feel like she still might betray them bc the titans writers are just Like That but im putting on my clown shoes and hoping she won’t lmfao.

i absolutely love tim! the way they incorporated him into the show was really interesting and reminiscent of the comics. jay lycurgo is killing it too!!

jason leaving crane and also punching him in the face was incredibly satisfying dsjlksdfklmsdfklm.

the goldfish on bab’s desk are my new favorite characters. <3

i was hoping dick and jason would be able to talk but then dick almost got run over by a car which is typical titans behavior lmao. at least he saw jason called for help.

it looks like kom’s slowly getting her powers back. it’s still not clear if that was her plan all along or if it’s just a happy accident. the purple aesthetic is cool so im glad <3

connor taking off the moment he saw kory was so FUNNY.

kory is having visions again but they aren’t coming from kom this time. maybe rachel in themyscira or hank/donna from the other side?? jason saw donna in episode 5 so im leaning towards her possibly trying to get kory’s attention now.

“are they coming from you?” “i was, um, fucking connor sleeping” mhmm 👀 

“isn’t this how gar ended up locked in a trunk with a black eye?” im glad someone remembers gar’s sacrifice.

kom and connor are as subtle as a brick klsdfkjldsfklj. kory 100% knows about them.

okay but what if the visions are coming from her parents? what if that was baby kory? 🥺

jason went to a...sex club (genuinely don’t know what to call it) just to pretend he was apologizing to hank and dawn. this scene being incredibly funny but emotional too is also typical titans behavior. on that same note, i really hope dick realizes jason wasn’t manipulating him or tricking him and that he really just wanted to go home.

KOM AND CONNER ARE CUTEEE.

dick “im just a regular guy doing regular things” grayson.

tim :( i can’t imagine they’d kill him. he’ll hopefully be able to tell the titans that crane was the one who shot him, not jason.

krypto was only in the episode for one (1) second but he’s a perfect boy. <3

the goldfish :(

that ending though?? gotham is about to pop off lmfao.

made this post because i promised @forlornmelody all of my titans thoughts but it got really long slkjsdfkljsdkl. will update this post when i watch the other two eps tomorrow!

[kawaiichibiart]

Did I ever tell y'all about my weird shipping thing??? Well, maybe not weird but, probably not common????

Yes? No?

I'm telling y'all (again maybe) anyways.

So.

Characters, in general, fall into one of three places: like, neutral, or dislike.

With new shows and/or new adaptions of shows, everyone starts off in the neutral. I have no real opinion on them and don't really care all that about them. It's a whatever happens, happens area.

It doesn't happen all the time, but there are times when certain characters just immediately go into the like or dislike area. The first thing to come to mind with this is Miraculous, and how in my first viewing, Marinette quickly went into the dislike area, while Adrien quickly went to the like area. Does it mean they stay there? No. Marinette has had moments where I felt neutral about her again, not really caring what she did, but never truly disliking her, but for the most part she does stay in the dislike area.

So, when it comes to ships, it works like this.

To make things easier: LIKE, NEUTRAL, DISLIKE

LIKExLIKE - Most likely an OTP. These are two (or more) characters I like and feel might make a good couple. Often times at least one character in the ship is my favorite character. Examples of ships in this are: Zukka, Lukadrien, BatCat and Capril (03)

LIKExNEUTRAL - I might ship it but I more so just, support it. This again, might include a favorite character, but more often than not, these are ships that change. And by that, I mean they can become ships I like or dislike, depending if the neutral character leans towards one end or the other. Examples of this are: Chlila, Jetko, DickBabs and Stendy

LIKExDISLIKE - Never going to happen. Better known as my NOTPs. I can't bring myself to like these ships because one of the characters is one I just don't like. Even with AUs or "fix it" fics/comics/art. Examples of these ships are: The entirety of the Love Square, Dramoine, and Kybe

NEUTRALxNEUTRAL - These are more so BroTPs. I ships these, but they tend to not go into anything beyond strong friendship?? I enjoy these ships and they often include characters that eventually make their way into one of the other categories. Examples of this are: Chlogami, Ronarry, Stary and Leorai (03)

NEUTRALxDISLIKE - I support it, do I ship it?? Maybe. Often times, the neutral character in the ship is there, because they made their way back into the area. These ships are ones I tend to just, not really know how to feel about, again, because it involves a character I don't like, but the other has potential to enter the like area, therefore making it an NOTP. So, in the end, it's just, support. If you ship it, great. Examples of these ships are: Marigami/Kagaminette, Bendy, and Linny

DISLIKExDISLIKE - In a way, it's like the LIKExLIKE ships, difference, besides both being characters I dislike, is that I just don't see these ships as ones that catch my interest. They're there. That's it. Example of these ships is: Lilanette. It's the only example I could think of.

And yes, some names (well part of said names) are in more than area, and it's because those are characters that jump between neutral and like/dislike. And with both Capril and Leorai, I added (03) to specify which version they were, the early 2000s (2003) version, which is where I first saw both ships.

[sayyoumadetobemine]

Spoilers for Titans 3x07

Brace yourselves! Spoilers ahead!

Overall it was a good episode for Kory and Kom moments everything else was ehh. For once we had a great balance of the fire sisters, Crane/Jason and Dick and Babs. The highlight was Kory and Kom talk about their parents. We finally have some insight on what happened when Kory didn’t come back home and it’s going to factor Kory’s journey from here on in.

Not sure how I feel about Kom and Conner yet… I haven’t decided if I like it or not but Conner definitely have a crush on Kom at this point.

This episode proves that Dick seriously needs to get the fuck out of Gotham. He snapped at Kory in the last episode and he snapped at Babs in this one but he actually apologized to her which I am still wait for him to do it for Kory but it’s not going to happen.

The fight sequence was okay. Wasn’t the best but wasn’t the worst however the highlight was Kom/Kory team up and Gar.

Like I said the episode was good until the end… Dick and Babs are going to give it another go. All hopes of Dick politely rejecting her went out the window once he kissed her which makes me bitter cause that the first girl Dick has kissed since Kory. And once again, Brenton and Savannah still don’t have that chemistry to pull of the romance side of things, it’s still awkward between them. Also i saw someone mentioned that Dickb@bs remind them of Steve and Sharon and honestly, it true cause both relationship were forced and awkward to watch. This moment plays into fan serivce. I know Parthi said be patience but i’m losing it. I hope we only have to endure them for a couple of episodes and I believe they will break up when he gets sent to the hospital. And since the explosion happened and Conner saved Dick, I think someone mentioned Dick gets hit by a car so maybe that will send him to the hospital. But I was right about DB getting back together, thank god we don’t see them hooked up just kissed so I hope i am right about when they break up. But we all knew it was happening.So basically all those people including Savannah and Brenton lied about Dickbabs relationship so maybe Brenton is lying about to Dickkory. Small chance! Also there is something off about Dickbabs that hasn’t had me fully believe they will work. They aren’t really the same people they were 6 years ago and neither one of them are acknowledging it and they will be their down fall. while the show is giving us Dickbabs whether they will fail because they are caught up in the past rather than seeing how they are in the present. And that will be the reason why they will fail.

And finally Gar, I really hope your faith in Jason doesn’t bite you in the ass. Glad, you are using your brain but stop trying to save Jason. I hope this Molly girl, did not watch Jason’s episode and have no desire to, helps. Which means we are definitely getting a Jason redemption arc even though he doesn’t deserve it

[danny-chase]

dickbabs for the ship game and also dickjoey

Ask game

Dickbabs: i love it but it's not my favorite (okay but like god they're so freaking cute together), I prefer them both with other characters (in like - I'm happy to see it, but it's not like my otp). Compilation of great moments: Dick putting his hand over her eyes and being like guess who, Babs calming him down while he's flipping off her couch, the time he fell asleep on her couch and she just came over and like snuggled, ALSO everything in the young justice cartoon melted my heart - in young justice 100% they better end up together because that one scene where they snuggle on the couch was 2 seconds long and everything I want in a ship

Dickjoey: I would push half the DC universe off a cliff for this to be canon. Its God tier content that only exists in my head. There's so much romantic tension between them, the panel they meet unintentionally looks like love at first sight, that panel where Joey strips at the sight of Dick in costume, playing guitars together, the time Dick told Joey his entire life story completely unprompted on Tamaran, also every text bubble where we get Dick being like 'I don't why but I feel like I can trust him'. Joey is such a soft boy and Dick is also a (angsty) soft boy I can imagine them on like picnics together, doing bob ross painting tutorials, painting each others nails, making each other flower crowns, baking muffins, the list goes on and on.