#specifically on a durge run. if you know you know

[popiellart]

oooooh so! for fic recs! I would ask for Dead Three fic recs for BG3 but I think we have read all the same things so Tyranny!!!

Anything with lush prose and Bleden Mark.

And anything with my fav problematic beastwife Kills-In-Shadow :D

i was under the impression i will be easily able to recommend tyranny fics - and then i remembered most of what i read was in russian OTL

from english ones, I really liked the Bleden Mark & Fatebinder It's A Hundred Thousand Miles Off, Coming Closer Every Day by ialpiriel and Ad Coleum by Nebulad, both short and sweet and dialogue-heavy, which I enjoy

there's absolutely nothing in english that's Killsy-centric which i consider a crime and a personal attack (she's the ideal woman. you may not like it, but that's what female peak performance looks like)

i would shamelessly rec my fics - if i ever finished and posted them

[hickeygender]

karlach is so sweet to my durge arzhur 😭😭😭

[kawareo]

Bhaalist Unholy Communion

This post has been living in my brain rent free and then it hit me in just the right headspace to turn into a vent thing and made me write poetry for the first time since eight grade anyway enjoy my ramblings under cut

because isn't it fucked up that Durge has no bodily autonomy? That he's nothing (using he/him because im looking at my Durge specifically) without Bhaal because not even his own body is his own but still a part of Bhaal?

And sure it is an honor to be Bhaal's Chosen, but is it really if you never got the chance to choose yourself? Strike, my Durge, was born a Bhaalspawn and grew up in the cult since he was eight. It's all he's ever known, he's worshiped for being a demi-god, he's powerful and on top, and in the end, literally everything he has is only because his Father lets him have it.

The Communion especially shows that, with Strike being still worshiped, but it hurts him, the Bhaalists rip his body apart, use it, consume it, and he needs to think of it as a blessing because how lucky is he, to be the soul that was loaned piece of a god to guard? He'd think of his own body like that.

And it hurts Bhaalists, too! It works both ways! His blood is poisonous and his flesh aches in their throats, but it's a blessing! God of Murder loves his son and his love hurts, and if you love him back, you must let yourself be hurt and know how lucky you are to be allowed to be hurt by Bhaal or his mortal flesh itself!

I'm just very into the whole 'no bodily autonomy' thing that we have going on with Durge, like his father not only can take control of his body via the Urge, but he has Sceleritas to guide him away from anything that could be not by Bhaal's books, Orin and Saverok to be a (although messed up as hell) family to him so he'll never look for another, and to some degree, Bhaal can control Durge's mind...

No wonder he'd run to Gortash in the end. The first one who sees more than a Bhaalspawn when he looks at Strike, more than Bhaal's scion, he sees a person and ngl it's totally Bhaal's fault that Strike ended up like that

[victorgrwrites]

Gortash Age/Timeline

For my prelude, see live footage of me at work below. (PS: Mac on the right there is basically my wife, she was very kind to let me ramble about this.)

Here we go. And I think it goes without saying, but spoilers ahead.

So, we have a better idea of Durge's timeline than Gortash, which is helpful since we know that they knew one another before the events of the game. On top of that, we know what each was doing when the other was doing something else. At least, to a point.

We'll start with Durge.

Exhibit A: We know that Sceleritas Fel appeared to Durge on their "age of majority", which is generally accepted to be 18. Could be 16, but we're going with 18 for the timeline.

---

Exhibit B: We know that in the prequel Blood in Baldur's Gate, the main antagonist is Dark Urge, and Sceleritas himself appears multiple times in the story. We also know for a fact that this happens in 1477, 15 years before BG3.

Therefor, we know that Durge CANNOT BE YOUNGER than 18 in the year 1477, and therefor cannot be younger than 33 in BG3.

It's important to note for later on that at this point in Baldur's Gate in 1477, it is very likely Durge has already started the cult of Bhaal or is on the verge of starting it. --- Like I said, easy as Hell, now on to Gortash. Cause he is definitely trickier; we'll be needing to work backwards for this guy. Exhibit A:

Gortash is intent on making a memoir of his life, and has given us a helpful order of events, if without dates and such.

Exhibit B:

We'll start with the heist at the House of Wonders. If you don't know what the House of Wonders is, imagine a giant museum/research university run by NASA. It's a big fuckin' deal, and holds some insane things.

We don't know everything they stole, but we do know some. 1. A Bhaal torture device and some preserved Bhaalist bodies (unimportant for our conversation), and 2. Schematics which served as the basis for the Steel Watch, as well as the submersible.

((I can't find the specific screenshot for the Steel Watch schematics, but just trust me, it exists.)) We can assume that Karlach was sold right around this time, maybe before, most likely right after. The reason why she was sold around this time is because... ---

Exhibit C:

Karlach is a proto-prototype Steel Watcher, or at least of the infernal engines the Steel Watch use. What Gortash most likely got for Karlach were plans/materials/development for the infernal engines.

So let's recap. We now know that ten years ago Durge and Gortash pulled their heist, traded Karlach, figured out infernal engines, and started production or development on the Steel Watchers. Neither were the chosen of their gods yet, and the Crown of Karsus wasn't even on their radar.

Let's keep going. --- Exhibit D:

The first and second listings in Gortash's memoirs are him founding the Bane cult, and then discovering that there was a Bhaal cult already started. I would posit that Gortash established the Bane cult right around the time of the previously mentioned Blood in Baldur's Gate. At the bare minimum we know that Durge had to have been already active and Sceleritas already trying to guide him. So we can likely say that Gortash established the cult of Bane in 1477. Which means he was not in the House of Hope any longer in 1477.

The Crux of the Issue:

Here is where we get into speculation, and there's several questions we have to answer that don't have a clear answer. 1. How old was Gortash when he was sold off?

2. How old was he when he escaped the House of Hope?

3. How long after that did he establish the Cult of Bane?

I'll give you my answer for these questions, and my reason why.

Given my previous post, you might know that I subscribe to the idea that Gortash had a knack for artifice when he was young. There's no way a devil/warlock would pay even a small amount for a useless kid. So, at what age is a kid "useful" while still being a kid? My guess would be as old as ten, as young as eight.

Based on the conversation with Nubaldin, I would say he was still fairly young when he escaped. The way he talks about Gortash establishes that the jailor remembers Gortash as a 'sniveling little shit' and 'mischievous little blot of a boy'.

I would put him at about sixteen, absolute tops.

3. I believe he would have started the Bane cult very, very soon after leaving the House of Hope because I have a sneaking suspicion that Bane's influence started at the House of Hope. Might be how he escaped in the first place, or maybe he heard about Bane while there. Either way, I don't think he took very long.

In my head, he's probably around 17-19 when he starts the Bane cult. But also, if there's age discrepancies, this is probably where they come in.

---

And there you have it. I don't focus on his in-game model much, because looks can vary so wildly. Especially when there's years of demonic torture, obsessive artifice study, and dead god cults. The game narratively describes him as a young man, so I generally erred on the side of "young" when figuring out this timeline.

If you've got questions, comments, additions, go on and lay them on me.

[ghost-of-a-dream-girl]

as a doctor, where in the hospital staff would you place each of the bg3 companions? what would fit their characters the most?

Hahah oh this is great

Gonna keep this to doctors but let’s do different specialties

Ok so starting off strong: I think Karlach has big emergency medicine energy. She’s running the ED with an energy that nobody else can match, but especially that resus/trauma bay! Doesn’t shy away from the scary, gets stuck in. You know they don’t need security there to restrain the agitated when she’s on shift- all you need is Karlach and some ket.

Next I think Gale has the same aura as a senior ICM registrar (intensive care medicine resident). Probably dual training in renal or respiratory, likely has a PhD on the side. He has intensity when it matters but is an utter nerd. Likely the type who doesn’t like odd numbers on the vent settings. Precise, a little OCD, but fucking magical.

Wyll has to be a medical registrar (internal medicine senior resident). Probs in something acute like acute medicine or resp/gastro. Able to deal with vast quantities of shit and still put on a smile, graceful, caring, and properly holistic in the way he views patients. Quietly competent as the hells. Sacrifices himself for the good of the hospital.

Shadowheart is a tricky one. It would be too obvious to lean into the goth girl vibes and say pathology or whatever but actually I don’t think that fits. I think Shadowheart is an anaesthetist (anaesthesiologist to u Americans). Very very competent and always there exactly when you need her to save everyone else’s asses, but keen to retire to theatres after the fun is over and just crack on with a case by herself. Able to gossip like a pro. Likes taking the lead with her own problem solving. Would be catty as hell about her list overrunning or the surgeons doing something silly. probably overly reliant on caffeine.

Astarion. Cardiothoracics. Probably specifically cardiac surgery. No mortal human can stand for 12 hrs and perform like that. Also the most (justifiably) egotistical surgeons around. Would be bitching about his colleagues across the drapes with Shadowheart. Has had 200yrs to practice his techniques so the ego is probably really well placed. Those rogue hands were meant for complex cardiac surgery but that hair was made for the drama of it too. Easy access to blood products. Would do 30% NHS lists and 70% private practice to fund his lifestyle. Best dressed in the hospital.

Lae’zel is that really strange surgical registrar (general surgical senior resident) that you’re never quite sure if she’s joking or not when she makes threats toward you. Obviously very competent. Makes other surgeons cry but particularly the men. Has > 300 publications in major medical journals. Probably pioneered a revolutionary new technique that she came up with one rainy Saturday. Can get an appendix out in 5 mins max.

There is only one woman for trauma and orthopaedics and that is of course Minthara. A woman who dominates what is well known to be the most male dominated field in medicine. Lowest complication rate in the country. Every single one of her male juniors is terrified of her and for good reason. Will operate on things other surgeons would be too scared to touch. Complex poly-trauma patient with ‘unsurvivable’ injuries? Watch them walk out of hospital 3 months later.

Honourable mentions:

Durge- you know what, it’s so tempting to put Durge as a surgeon or even a pathologist (people who do autopsies), but that’s just too obvious. I think the murdering would be kept on the side. One thing Durge would love though is blood and carnage, maybe even a little high octane drama. For that reason- obstetrics. A little poetry to a killer bringing new life into the world too.

Jaheira - that incredible Professor who only works part time clinically now but when she does everyone is reminded of how brilliant she is. Gives me the energy of a ‘seen it all’ medical consultant (internal medicine attending).

Minsc- he should be ortho. Everyone thinks it- he has big Ortho lad energy. But he’s not. Minsc is a paediatrician!!!! It shocks everyone when they first meet him, this massive guy with a hamster on his shoulder. The kids love Boo. He’d be obsessed with Prof Jaheira too.

Halsin- can see him as a psychiatry professor actually. Probs does dabble in a little of the cooler types of therapies on the side (and tries them for himself) eg LSD for PTSD. Mixes medicine with non medical therapies. Very soothing to listen to.

Withers- palliative care consultant that should have retired millennia ago.

Volo- ophthalmology. 👁️

—

[y-rhywbeth2]

In your post about Durge's sudden normality you mentioned implied SA in the tags; would you mind elaborating on that? I don't remember seeing any implications like that, but I know I missed a lot of details in my first run. (Obviously if you would mind feel free to ignore this.)

Naturally this is going under a cut for discussion of rape, sexual exploitation and incest:

Some of it is mostly me reading into things and frowning, but Bhaal being able to violate Durge sexually and the intent of sexual exploitation (regardless of Durge's will) is canon and it does lend credence to the idea.

Durge is obligated to breed, and Bhaal can and will force them to; the original version of the feral ending in the dialogue files involves him forcing them into a state of sexual hyperarousal and forcing them to mate with a gnoll, in the same way he can force the urge to slay on them. Bhaal's intention there is to see if he can breed more monstrous Bhaalspawn. Some of the dialogue options are just Durge screaming in horror.

Durge has no memory of the actual rape; Bhaal forces them to spend the entire time thinking about him: "Your memory of last night's act is absent. In the moment of mounting, your mind emptied itself, and you could think only of Bhaal."

And knowing that, when I saw "I love you father. I'm a good [child], a good, good [child]" in the released version I had to go sit down for a bit.

We know that Durge is expected to have kids - it's a mortal sin that they haven't. It's also vague whether they tried or not pre-amnesia; they're described as "failing" not refusing, it could've gone either way. Durge may already have been exploited. Even if they don't disappoint Bhaal in game, this "duty" remains. It's not just the Tribunal making shit up; Sceleritas is your direct liaison to Bhaal, and he makes this clear to them as Bhaal's Chosen too.

We know that if Durge won't kill then Bhaal will force them to, and we know that he can force them to have sex too. It's entirely possible that Durge's only say in this is to either fuck partners they chose or have them chosen for them (as we all know, Bhaal has zero respect for his kids' bodily autonomy or desires past his use for them, and Bhaal wants more babies.)

At the very least, it doesn't seem to be a major part of Bhaal's plan for Durge yet, so Durge may have dodged this specific form of abuse for now.

Bhaal has also done this to Sarevok, it seems, who would probably have killed himself back in BG1+2 if he could see what would happen to him in his future.

Knowing that Bhaal has no issues inflicting sexual arousal on his own kids, those scriptures you find that explicitly refer to the pleasure he bestows on his followers when they kill as "erotic" unfortunately have little reason not to be applied to Bhaalspawn. It would also explain the necrophilia if Durge has been conditioned to see killing/corpses as sexual.

Not quite the same thing, but the thing where people think Durge fucked the Netherbrain is actually from a remark by Bhaal in the journal update, where he makes a crack that "That slimy thing in the Moonrise called you its fallen star. It was very reverent [...] apparently [you're] good at playing with tentacles."

That's not inherently sexual, but knowing that Bhaal is willing to sexually exploit Durge and that the fandom had already interpreted it as sexual, I did kind of stare at it in horror for a bit.

[celestialholz]

Be still made, my beloved crossbow (or 'let's talk about Durge's other other weapon... and maybe a bit about Stillmaker too')

You've read this post, friends. You know it's true, I know it's true. (And it's bloody beautiful by the way, lovely job @darkurgediaries.)

But wait, there's more.

Let's have a quick chat about the Hellfire Engine Crossbow, because if Stillmaker is Durge's blade from Gortash, this is Durge's side-bitch from him... or it was meant to be, anyway. Man never quite got around to piecing it all together.

Okay, let's start with er... I mean look at it. It's white, has a phoenix head on it - a creature that symbolises resurrection, rebirth and immortality, how very Durge, and is also associated with sun gods when Gortash is this easy to turn into a Lathanderan and that guy brings light to each new day - and it's also embossed with Gortash and the Steel Watch's black and gold motif.

And then you take a mechanical look at it and... hang on.

What are you doing here, Lightning Arrow? The Steel Watch don't have Lightning Arrow, but you know who does have Lightning Arrow? Rangers - archery experts, usually - at level nine and up. And who can we consider that's on level nine and is really good at archery?

And who can we consider who might run out of lightning-basic magic in the heat of battle; who is white, and has a theme of rebirth either by rejecting Daddy Bhaal outright or embracing them anew, and knows a sun-coded Radiant guy, and may once have had business in the Foundry?

Well hello The Dark Urge Vanilla Edition, our old spicy friend. There's also the lovely addition of Reposition Malefactor - Lightning Arrow, grab, Stillmaker stab. Classic Baldurian efficiency.

You know what kills me about Gortash's Radiant coding and Durge's Lightning? The first thing you see of lightning is its flash, its brilliance, and the second thing you see is its destruction. The light isn't the part that hurts you, but it's inextricably linked to the thing itself, just as you can't have the destruction without the light. Symbiosis. Gortash could have been thunder-coded, but... no. Thunder isn't destructive, not usually. It doesn't happen at the same time in the storm.

It's not symbiotic... it's not equal.

... Yeah no, I'm fine, not emotional at all. No sir, could not be me. Despite being level nine too, Gortash doesn't have Lightning Arrow. Why would you need lightning, when your beloved has it in their veins, when you've made them a crossbow specifically for it? You just bring the 'light' part, don't you?

Symbiosis. Peace and love on planet Faerûn. Anyway...

If we must consider the application of Lightning Arrow as a helpful aid to the depleted Storm Sorceror, we should probably consider Stillmaker's equivalent.

Hold Person. Hold. Person. Which, yes - very useful bit of utility for our lovely Durge to have, 100% - but then you consider the fifteen separate dimensions of romantic overtones in Durgetash and you just can't help but feel: Hold Person. It's a bloody hug. It's support. He's made it easier for you to slaughter people, which at least used to be your favourite thing to do.

So Gortash has A. made your murdering life much more fun because you can savour the kill and B. made sure you can still kill from a distance if anyone else happens to be around and you're tired.

What a complete fucking simp. 🥺❤

On the subject of Stillmaker in fact, much as the Fabricated Arbalest to the Hellfire Engine, it's rather different to Durge's main dagger, Bloodthirst.

This is pure function. Made to please Papa in the most gruesome way possible, whichever hand you feel like using to wield it.

Whereas Stillmaker... it's got an attached hug. It's got a wavy blade, perfect for the task of slicing and dicing - one that's very difficult to forge, that must have taken time and care.

... Well. Must have taken a mortal time and care. Because lest we forget, it's not the only wavy blade Durge owns.

... Seriously, Larian. How are you going to make both of them wavy. I'm on your ceiling fans.

It's two separate dimensions to Durge's life, in two blades with the same nastiness to them - absolute utility, versus actual care.

This is literally more intricate than the thing presumably given by a god. That's going to tear like a bitch, truly. And it's even got Bhaal's delightful countenance up front and centre. What was that devnote, about convincing the child of a god that they're not a monster? Mm...

Oh, I don't know. It's almost like, for a while anyway, Durge's connection to Gortash was more important than the one to their father. Maybe they wrote something about that very thing, in fact. Imagine. 🥲

I'd like to take this opportunity to also note the very violent and Thunder-mentioning text attached to the Hellfire Engine...

... And the fact it's found in three parts, because y'know, Dead Three.

There's only one minor flaw in this whole thing, really. One teensy little tiny problematic detail.

Sorcerors, unlike Gortash, can't use Heavy Crossbows.

... But, then, they can't use shortswords either.

I'll let you be the judge, shall I?

[trappedinafantasy37]

It’s 2 o’clock in the morning and I can’t sleep so I’m just gonna start rambling about what’s on my mind. You wanna know what that is? Isobel. To be specific, Durge and Isobel.

Since my very first Durge run, it never quite made sense to me as to why the Urge would specifically want you to kill Isobel. Up until that point, the Urge has kinda been impulsive and acted without thought. But with Isobel, that’s very deliberate. Sceleritas Fel literally shows up in the middle of the night and gives you a name and a face. That’s never happened before. With Alfira, she was just a victim of convenience. Same thing with Gale, Arabella, the squirrel the grove, all victims of convenience. None of their deaths were planned before hand, but Isobel’s very much is premeditated and the only one that is.

But, there is something about the interaction with Fel that is super easy to overlook. If you talk to Fel about Isobel before you actually meet Isobel, you can ask him as to why you should kill her. He tries to reason with you by saying that the inn will fall if she dies and it will be a mass spectacle of murder... How the fuck does Fel know that? You aren’t even informed of that possibility of the inn falling upon her death until you meet Isobel herself.

Even if you don’t talk to Fel before hand and you meet Isobel first, the Urge and the narrator constantly keep trying to push you into killing Isobel. Now, the narrator does kinda goad Durge a lot, but not quite as much as when interacting with Isobel.

If you choose not to kill Isobel, Fel shows back up again and tells you of another premeditated murder and that is your companion with the highest affinity, or your romantic partner. Again, very weird. With Isobel, it’s a premeditated murder that you are in control of. But with your favorite person, it’s premeditated, but you’re not in control. But why? Sure, you can believe Fel at his word when he says that your body craves violence and it hasn’t gotten its full when you chose not to kill Isobel. But, it could be anybody. You can satiate your bloodlust on literally anybody. So, why your favorite companion?

It’s almost like the urge can only be satiated with your favorite companion because something, or someone, is punishing you for not killing Isobel. But again, why is Isobel so god damn fucking important?

If you kill Isobel or you kill your romance partner, you are granted the Slayer form. Yay! But there’s a very unique scenario that can happen in which you can be granted the Slayer form without killing Isobel yourself and that is if you allow Shadowheart to become a Dark Justiciar. This, I always found to be super weird. Technically, Shadow is responsible for the death of Isobel, and yet, you get rewarded for it anyway and your urge is considered satiated even though you didn’t directly do anything.

If your approval with Shadow is like 40 or higher, by default, she will always choose to spare the Nightsong on her own. Which means if you are above the 40 threshold, the only way Shadow becomes a DJ is if you tell her to. So, although you didn’t kill Isobel, you become indirectly responsible for her death which is why you get rewarded.

But you love doing the direct killing themselves. You love getting your hands wet with blood and gore. And this indirect route is… well… too clean for you. If anything, it’s Shadow’s hands that are bloody, not yours. So, why is your urge satiated when you didn’t do the killing yourself and the blood isn’t even on your hands?

That’s because the murder of Isobel is a fucking hit job. It’s an assassination. It doesn’t matter how she dies or when she dies, just that she dies. Now, I’m sure that this really isn’t some kind of monumental revelation, but the Urge is Bhaal. In the moments where you lose control, yeah, that’s Bhaal basically possessing you. It makes sense as to why you’re forced to target your favorite person after failing to kill Isobel, Bhaal is pissed that you disobeyed and is trying to teach you a lesson.

But, it also means that, for whatever reason, Bhaal wants Isobel dead. The only explanation I have is because it fucks over Ketheric which by consequence fucks over Myrkul. And we know for sure that the Dead Three and their Chosen entered into this alliance with the intention of betraying the other two eventually. It also pieces together how Fel knows that killing Isobel guarantees the fall of the inn and that’s because Bhaal knows. Marcus has been hanging around the inn for some time so he would already know of Isobel’s importance to the inn and relayed that information to Ketheric. It’s very much possible that Orin could have stumbled upon that info herself, or even pre-lobotomy Durge.

But, Bhaal is the pure definition of chaotic stupid. Killing Isobel in of itself doesn’t necessarily hurt Ketheric. In fact, when she dies, he may not always know. I think the only way that he does know that Isobel is dead is if Marcus ends up taking her corpse back to Moonrise in which Ketheric resurrects her and puts a worm in her brain. At that point, he can guarantee that not only will Isobel always be alive, but she will always be by his side. It’s pretty morbid and fucked up, but it actually ends up strengthening Ketheric.

Anyways, it’s 2 o’clock in the morning and I’ve been awake for 22 hours. Sorry if the rambling is a little incoherent. I just really had to get this shit outta my head. Now, I’m gonna go lay in bed and stare at the ceiling for another 3 hours cause I’m still not tired.

[feniksido]

For some reason my post about the Heist in the Hells has been getting some traction recently so I thought maybe it's time to talk about my actual thoughts on what I would like to see in the hypothetical Heist in the Hells DLC (my personal hell)

I was trying to figure out a whole bunch of stuff about Mephistopheles and the 8th layer of the hells! First, the vaults are in Mephistar, a citadel on top of a Glacier named Nargus, which is piloted by Mephisto all over Cania constantly on the move. Mephisto has his slowly melting throne at the very center of the glacier, and the rest of the city is like a mini-hell with 3 terraced levels where the lowest level is with “lowly least devils” and mid tier for mid devils i guess and then hellfire masters and nobles and the wizards on the third higher levels. It’s heated on the inside of Mephistar! It has baths and scented fires (not sure what they smell like but I assume something other than fire?)

The rest of Cania is just like barren wasteland full of just the weirdest left over arcane energy cus of Mephisto’s experimentation, its cold as fuck and it has constant surveillance against spies, mostly spies sent by Dispater, mr THE Arms Dealer of all the planes, so you know that motherfucker mephistopheles is very used to these types of people showing up and trying to go into the vaults and such

NOW Helsik very specifically used the words “I punched a portal into the Archdevil’s dusty vaults”, so I assume it was directly into the vaults that they fell into. I'm not sure how this is even possible but i'm not one to ask questions that i will never understand the answers to (lying, im seething) 

However, regardless of the fact that I don't know how Helsik the queen that she is did that, she did do it. I imagine the vaults are huge and incredibly elaborate and probably several stories? Layers? Deep. The items and scrolls and information must all be neatly cataloged and kept track of in the most particular way because Mephistopheles is nothing if not obsessively controlling of all his knowledge and information

However the whereabouts of the actual physical objects must be like.. Constantly changing or magically protected so that those with no authorization cannot find their way through the vaults

Mephistopheles’s filing system is… insane but i do think he would keep track. Or make someone else keep track. He’s very busy. He typically hands down experiments he ran out of time to deal with in his busy schedule to his lessers so I wouldn't put it past him to have someone else also take care of the cataloging. The Crown of Karsus is NOT high on his priority list so i understand how this was potentially feasible to Gortash and The Dark Urge

Actually Talking about the heist itself now: 

I imagine that if a whole heist dlc (don't think we’re getting one but a man can dream) did happen it would start with a bit of exposition. Probably explaining a little bit of the Letters between Durge and Gortash. Specifically these ones:

Then we cut to a scene where they’re already at Helsik’s place. They’ve discussed the plans in depth, they’ve been doing test runs for this in the House of Hope and now it’s time for the real deal. 

Helsik “punches” the portal into the Vaults and they jump in. The portal closes behind them, Helsik will not allow herself to be implicated in anything. They take in their surroundings; they have to be quick, although it is heated inside of Mephistar the frigidness of Cania cuts deeper than anything Baldur’s Gate could ever manage. I imagine that they, having never been here before, look for something that can help them navigate/orient themselves in the vaults. Perhaps that whole cataloging system I talked about earlier. You can choose to ignore it and just go straight forwards checking every room making it substantially harder and less efficient which makes Gortash a little pissy at you for not taking his advice and helping him look for that or you can look around for one but the actual system for cataloging is encrypted 

Maybe a mini puzzle game can take place here, like the one with the brain in Moonrise Towers 

The thingy would then lead deeper into vaults where they would fight Gelugons (the main residents of the 8th layer also known as ice devils) and other assorted devils including pit fiends and pain devils. Maybe a couple dire polar bears also who knows who Mephisto but on his security team

At one point i want to come across an ice devil that much like Yurgir in the house of hope in act 3, can be convinced to side with you and become a temporary ally (perhaps it holds resentment towards Hutijin, mephistopheles’ second in command, and just got sick and tired of the monotony and wants to stick it to the man, i just want a devil in my party even for a second) 

If you manage to successfully persuade this devil to join you, Gortash might be impressed and tell you about how tricking a devil is no easy feat, you can ask him to elaborate on that and he might tell you a bit about his time in the house of hope as Raphael’s unwilling guest Who knows

Moving on, I’d like several more puzzles to delve deeper into the vaults, some that lead nowhere some that lead exactly where you need to go, if you did the earlier puzzle Gortash will be able to guide you and say which ones lead nowhere and which ones are the ones you need to do 

Eventually I want a mechanically engineered door to be the next hurdle which Gortash takes upon himself to solve on his own since he’s more well suited towards this kind of thing, during this, rounds and rounds of incoming security swarm around you both, and Durge has to defend Gortash while he works on getting the door open. Much like the quest for Halsin looking for Thaniel in the Shadowfell, you gotta keep the portal open but instead of “keep the portal open” its “keep Gortash alive and not distracted”

When the rounds of enemies are done you get a little cutscene where you see Durge being overwhelmed by the many devils and it cuts to Gortash who has just opened the door and he takes less than a second’s pause before he decides that instead of going through the door and escaping to relative safety on his own, leaving durge to die he helps durge and they are both able to get through the door sealing it behind them, now in relative safety, they both take a second to breathe 

You as durge now can talk to Gortash and have the dialogue options to say Thank you, scold him for dragging you away from the bloody slaughter, or question his decision to come back for you

I THINK IN MY MIND that the response for all these options would basically be the same, because Gortash is a well practiced speaker and knows exactly what to say but his body language would sort of give him away for the way he’s feeling about the option you choose 

Thanking him would lead to a more defensive “pushing away” way of saying “I still require your assistance, we’re not done. Don’t expect it to happen again.” tsundere ass but like imagine that but better written 

Scolding him would get a sorta like “I cant fucking believe this” as if he expected durge to be a little more practical about things and not lose focus in the madness that was that slaughter and rampage, like i said still the same but just “Argh! I still require your assistance! We are NOT done. DO NOT expect it to happen again if you intend to act this way.” He needs you to focus, not lose yourself in blood

Questioning and challenging his decision but not outright saying you disapprove would probably be playing right into the whole “equals who challenge each other” thing that he likes to do so it’d probably make him slow down, talk slower, make him really think about why he did it and do the thing where while talking he can't look at Durge in the eyes so he looks off to the side or down at the floor “I still need your help. We’re nowhere near done. Let’s not expect this to happen again, yes?” Like acknowledging that yes that was in fact weakness that neither of their masters tolerate (because obviously the correct thing a baneite would have done is let the bhaalspawn die so that he alone already so close to the crown could take it for himself) and almost regretful that he didn't have a better excuse

You continue forward and finally come into the room with the Crown of Karsus and the portfolio labeled “Accelerated Grand Design”, there they encounter a boss fight, probably not mephisto himself cus they’d be dead tbh but maybe a simulacrum or something idk here things get a bit dicey for me cus what the fuck! How do they get out? I thought maybe they do the fight and once they grab everything they need or want they maybe have an enhanced cloak of dimension door or maybe a scroll of teleportation or something to get them out of the deep deep VAULTS themselves and into a place where they can “safely” create another circle on this side with the components and specific instructions Helsik gave them 

They’d arrive home back in Baldur’s Gate and celebrate their victory briefly and bada bing bada boom the dlc is over. If i had it my way at the end right there those two idiot geniuses would get so horny from the powerrush and bloodlust they just experienced that they end the dlc with durgetash fucking nasty 

[utilitycaster]

anyway this is obviously a wild shift in the topic of conversation, but I was talking about it in the group chat last night as a distraction and would like to continue the distraction if I am being honest, so, with the caveat that this is based off of Fandom Osmosis Observations and a few reads of reviews and I have at this time played neither of these games, some thoughts about BG3 vs. Veilguard and what I've seen. many thanks to @captainofthetidesbreath for actually knowing things about video games and answering my many questions.

also just putting this up front with all said caveats: if you disagree that is great, I am very open that this is an outside observation and I could be very wrong but I am going to block people who get hostile without warning, and make this nonrebloggable if too many people get hostile. You are always permitted to disagree but like, I don't really care about your opinion if you're not someone with whom I have a pre-existing rapport unless idk you're like, actually a BG3 or Veilguard official story writer who happens to be on Tumblr. If you're a player? You have all of your own biases and they are not mine. Save it for someone who wants to get in a fight about this; I am not that person.

Essentially, what I've seen in terms of criticism from Veilguard that isn't just rampant transphobia comes down to the following:

why am I not playing my previous character from Inquisition again

why am I limited to a fairly consistent through line for the story

But first, I'm going to talk about BG3. What's funny is I seem like a much more obvious candidate for playing BG3, as a longtime D&D player who has come around on Forgotten Realms as a setting. However, while I looked at it for a while, I eventually lost interest for a couple of reasons. One is that apparently all the characters are WAY too eager to romance you which is like, a fun fantasy for 10 minutes but would probably annoy me in the long run. Another is that everyone who watched early reviews and kept abreast with the game told me that there was a clear favorite companion (Astarion) and that many of the characters had most of their interesting flaws sanded down (eg: Wyll was apparently much cockier originally; Shadowheart even more petulant; and as these are perhaps the two characters I was most intrigued by, reducing them to something blander destroyed much of the appeal). But perhaps the most interesting one is that as a boring goodie two shoes sort of person, my thought back when I was like "yeah, perhaps I will play this" was "oh, I do not want to have a murderous urge within me."

It became very apparent, through watching people play through and post on my dash, that if you didn't specifically play as the Dark Urge, and didn't specifically resist that urge, the story didn't really cohere. I have to admit, I know the premise of BG3 very well (tadpoles), and I know a lot of shipping trends (put a pin in that), and I know some of the more obvious points within it (Astarion is a vampire, Gale and Karlach both have bombs in their chests somehow, Shadowheart bleaches her hair) but I don't really have a great sense of the ending, and I did not avoid spoilers.

It feels like BG3 is designed for people who have one of those massive spreadsheets of D&D characters they haven't had a chance to play that are meticulously kept and thoroughly realized...and don't really leave room for modifying to fit the campaign you will actually be playing in. It feels like an OC sandbox simulator unless you do actually pick the choice the writers actually wrote for (Durge), and while it's not technically playersexual...it kinda is. I mean, I am a big fan of the trend in video games towards making it possible to romance anyone because it conjures up the idea of a world of high-powered bisexuals running around, which is very enjoyable for me, but the criticism of the Mary Sue archetype originally was never "how dare you fantasize about being cool." It was "wow, the characterizations are all warped beyond recognition solely so that everyone is in love with this character, and that makes for a dull and unsatisfying story." If you're everyone's type, and it's for romance and not just sheer lust, then either everyone around you is boring and wants the same thing, or you are sort of bland and inoffensive, or else the story is bashing characters together without a good basis for a compelling romance. This is also compounded by the fact that the companions can't get together with each other if you're playing your own character and not an Origins character.

None of this is to say it's bad to like BG3 and again, I didn't play it; but it is why I ultimately said "you know, given the effort involved to play it for me, a person without a gaming system, it's not worth it."

Veilguard has specifically intrigued me for going against a lot of this. You have a lot of choices in your character build, but they're all fairly thematically consistent: you did something within your faction that was well-intentioned but upset higher-ups and so you need to step away for a while. This establishes a personality for you! We know why you're part of a faction but also something of a free agent at the moment. We know why you're here and why you might be a good candidate for the current mission.

I'm not going to go into detail for the choices because while I'm not avoiding spoilers I don't want to spoil a relatively new game for others, but a lot of choices are fairly parallel, not in an "illusion of choice" way - they have consequences - but in terms of hitting similar themes. You can only save one city and both are places you have seen and places your companions have connections to; while the exact details may differ you are telling a consistent story.

I also think the fact that the companions can romance each other in your absence is important too! They exist even when you're not there. They are not just here to woo you, and indeed, they might be a better match for each other. I've been informed this is true in Inquisition as well, and I think it's a much more rich world if you, as the player, as the person who can ultimately decide the fates of your companions, aren't the center of their personal life. I also think it prevents the ability to sand down companions to be more agreeable to you as a player if you have to make an NPC/NPC romance compelling (and I will freely admit that, in a move that is not at all like me, I was pretty well sold by a potential in-game NPC/NPC romance, which is usually not the thing that gets me into works of fiction).

I'm not the right person to speak to the Inquisitor not being a significant character because I did not play DA:I, and I get that 'well, this is a new game with a new protagonist, as there has been for every Dragon Age game' is still not necessarily an adequate explanation. Nor is "hey, maybe it's good to attract new players" even though as someone who is highly attracted as a new player that is my opinion. However, I want to go back to the point about Resist Durge being the strongest option in BG3 in terms of story by a long shot. When I was trying to learn more, I said "ok, so just like how you're Tav in BG3 and Rook in Veilguard, you're Lavellan in Inquisition, right?" and was told that you are not - that's just the elvish Inquisitor option. Obviously this is anecdotal, but the fact that one option was far and away the most popular and thematically resonant is an indication that perhaps bringing forth the Inquisitor is carrying over some of the limitations of that game, whatever they may be. The true argument is "they are trying to tell a specific story here, and it is about a different POV than the one you previously had."

And that's really my point. I know I'm not an expert here - in fact I'm usually quite hesitant to write meta about things in which I'm not highly steeped, and very critical of those people who do - but I think an outsider perspective is useful here. The thing that is drawing me to video games is a new way to experience a fictional narrative (the other game I have been meaning to play - and even own on Steam- is Disco Elysium). That's not what everyone wants! But it is what I want. And so I want to be put into a developed, thoughtful narrative, and I don't mind if my choices are restricted in order to support it, and if I am playing a person I did not entirely choose. In tech, there is a saying of "make it easy to make the right choice (and hard to make the wrong one)" and so if you need your protagonist to hit certain beats, you should make that the required protagonist.

I think a story is stronger if your choices matter but if there is something of a foregone conclusion because it gives the writers thematic throughlines. This might sound a little silly given that this blog is largely dedicated to Actual Play but the thing is, most actual play does have, if not a foregone conclusion, at least a strongly intended conclusion of "work towards uncovering this mystery and achieving this goal", though the success of said goal is not guaranteed. I would argue that when a campaign lacks that, it tends to suffer in all aspects. RPG video games almost always have a foregone conclusion, but that's its own liability. In actual play, lacking a forgone conclusion means you spin off in any direction and it's anyone's guess if it's coherent. In an RPG, having this conclusion but not supporting it through the rest of the game will make it feel contrived. I feel a lot of Veilguard criticism is focusing on small contrivances early on that really mostly matter to a highly specific subset of potential players that prevent much larger and less forgiveable contrivances later on.

Anyway. Again, I am an outsider here, and I'm not here to say that it's bad to have a more open-world, sandboxy game with a self-insert-y OC type; but I have to be honest, I'd rather explore that in a true sandbox of fanfiction or original fiction, which is significantly cheaper and in which I can actually tell the entire story I want to tell. I don't want to be given more choices if a lot of them will be profoundly unsatisfying as a narrative. I don't want to cut through the world like a hot knife through butter. I want to be affected by it, and that's very hard to do with a character whose only trait is "self-insert whom everyone wants to fuck" or "guy that already carries the baggage of years of personal headcanons and highly variable choices that are hard to account for for every single person who ever played the previous game."

[desertrose244]

Hii!!

I was wondering if you could share some of your favorite fics? I've been in a drought and was just curious 🦅

RAH YES I CAN THIS IS MY FAVOURITE QUESTION TO GET!

I wasn't sure if you wanted fandom specific ones so here's just a collection of some of my all time favourites. These aren't one's that I've linked on this blog before, just because I already have given those appreciation posts and I have SO MANY FICS and authors that I love. Anyways, all of these are /reader - and most have mature tags, so just be mindful : )

BG3:

[Ongoing!] Hellish Rebuke by @bludazey is an Ascended!Astarion fic that answers the open ended state we left Tav and Astarion in. It's dark and filled with drama in such an addicting way I am literallly almost falling off my chair waiting to see what happens in it! Everyone within it is characterised well and the lore put into our MC makes choices a much more 3 dimensional thing as they are not a blank slate like the ingame Tav! [Complete!] Aleatory by @avas-poltergeist is a prequel fic for a durge run centering Astarion x Durge and it's a fic that knows the tone it should take and executes it perfectly. I especially love how it doesn't hold your hand through it's narrative and doesn't treat it's reader as if they are stupid. Some actions, feelings and thoughts are almost done as if they are environmental storytelling and I am a SUCKER for it. Also I just adore the durge being a halfling- they are characterised perfectly. Transformers:

[Complete!] Gravity by @shinyportalsandthings - ohhh my god I dont even what to say. This fic is a Starscream fic and wheeew boi it can be hard to make the gremlin a compelling romance but this fic blows it out the park. The dialogue is witty and natural- I adore the scale of it because it's not a "let's end the millions of years long war" it's just a "let's go be happy" - UGHHH It's just so fun, redeemed Starscream I love you. ((More reccomendations for Transformers are on my metal dune, found here!)) Misc:

(Doom (2016)): [Complete] Rip And Tear (Into My Ass) by Goremungunder is one of two inspirations for my entire writing style. It's a Doomslayer insert fic and it's just perfect in every way. Such an enjoyable read and an excellent fic for a x reader tag that doesn't get much attention. I think about this fic at least once a month and have read through it like 5 times pls give it some love its amazing.

(League of Legends) [Complete - I believe- but set to ongoing] Dream a Little Dream by OrangeCrushCrushCrush is just hilarious and at the end of each chapter even features some art made by the author! All of their work is enjoyable to read, even without knowledge on the world or a pre-existing like for the character. I mean, the second half of this fic is centered around Yorick Mori- a character in League I had literally NEVER touched- but then I read this and mained top lane for like 4 months after.

I think I could actually go on forever, but I'll stop here for now. Thank you for the question Star! I really love getting to go through my bookmarks and deciding what I want to reread XD

[chronurgy]

i loveeeeeeeee your hc about gortash in all your tags!!! can you share your favorite hc about durge/gortash shenanigans in the city?

Yeah absolutely! Shenanigans hmmm....

Some of these will be a little more specific to my durge (Vesper, half-drow wizard) than others

During the Hall of Wonders heist, gortash specifically left some guards out of his reconnaissance to test how Durge handled themselves under pressure. He wanted to know if this was someone he would work with or someone too crazy to manage.

Gortash and Durge did a heist in the House of Hope as a trial run for their heist of the Crown - this is when they stole Raphael's shoes (the helldusk armor boots that Gortash keeps in the chest at the foot of his bed). Gortash didn't tell them about his history there or with Raphael before they went in. I think after seeing him there Durge did put at least pieces of it together and really left lots of burn marks and blood and guts spread around in their wake to get back at Raphael. They also broke at least one priceless and irreplaceable vase on "accident" while they were there. Their ire towards Raphael from this realization actually manages to carry over even when they can't remember why and it's partly why they're so determined to kill Raphael and so insistent that they won't work with him.

Gortash takes Durge to fancy parties, for a number of reasons - as a bodyguard, to bring them close to a murder target, to introduce them to the kind of high society stuff they'll be involved with as his co-ruler. But also because he loves to show them off, his darling assassin, loves the vicious little comments they make about the other attendees. He starts finding excuses to bring them to any party he can because he only ever enjoys these parties when they're with him, when he has someone just as brilliant as he is at his side. Durge usually has to attend in disguise but sometimes just dressing up fancy enough not to look like a sewer rat is enough to fool people.

Gortash is the kinda guy who will work himself to exhaustion and then fall asleep at his desk. The first time Durge found him like that, completely dead to the world on top of his diagrams and sketches, they thought about killing him. They imagined every detail, knew exactly how it would go. It would have been so easy, because he's so defenseless like this. They see his eyes moving under their lids, see his hands flex, and little expressions pass over his face - they know he's dreaming. They wonder what he's dreaming about (is it them?). And they don't kill him. They just watch him sleep, fascinated by the differences between the waking man they know and this unguarded sleeping one. They leave before he wakes up. I think they do this a couple of times before he finally catches them (maybe because they try to stroke his hair or something in a fit of softness). At first he's like, "oh my apologies, please don't hesitate to wake me should this happen again" before he puts together the look on Durge's face and realizes they've been watching him sleep and tried to like, touch his hair. He considers this a success because they could've killed him a whole bunch of times and didn't and they seem to be developing some sort of feelings towards him. He resolutely does not acknowledge the existence of any things he could possibly be feeling about this. Not at all.

Gortash keeps a large fancy estate in the city, Durge has a guest room there - it starts out as just an extra room but as they spend more time there Gortash starts to customize it more to their liking. He also moves their room to be next to his once he realizes that they're staying over more often, blaming a maid for knocking over a candle and causing fire damage in their old room when they ask why it was moved.

I think one night they have to have at least one really stupid caper they pulled off while extremely drunk that neither of them will talk about - as an example, they got super drunk, decided that since they were so good at heists they should do more of them, broke into some patriars estate, and stole a ton of fancy liquor. They also stole the bust of some guy from the entryway and staggered up the stairs to escape out the window of the daughter of the house's dressing room. Anyway, they woke up the next morning on the floor of Gortash's bedroom, extremely hungover and both of them (and the bust they stole) were wearing fancy little fascinator hats they can't remember but must have stolen out of the dressing room. They try to laugh at each other but gortash just ends up violently throwing up in a trash bin while durge lies on the floor with their eyes squeezed shut because the room won't stop spinning. They refuse to speak of this and will adamantly deny it ever happened if asked. Durge absolutely killed sceleritas while trying to force him into a stupid hat. The exact series of events might need some workshopping, but the core idea is some extremely stupid adventure the two of them had together that neither would ever admit to but is also a cherished memory for both of them.

Gortash's gauntlets (before he had the netherstone) used a series of capacitors and a setup akin to a self winding watch to generate an electric charge that he could attack people with. He designed them himself.

Vesper finds these gauntlets fascinating. When they first meet in person, he shows them off and discusses their construction and it's the first thing about him that they find impressive and intriguing.

As a gift, Gortash gave Vesper a set of sharpened rings designed after his gauntlets.

Vesper actually helped Gortash with some of the designs for the steel watch, looking at the plans and making suggestions - they were especially helpful when it came to the magical portions of the construct.

I think the closest the Urge ever comes to forcing Vesper to kill Gortash isn't when they first meet or during sex. It's one day when they're waiting for some spy's report, so they're sitting around in his room. He's tinkering with something at his workbench, and they're sitting at a desk working on a spell. They realize they need certain special inks for the transcription and look up to see them in the desk's little shelving unit and then they look closer and realize the desk is stocked with all the things a wizard needs - inks, chalks, paper, magical components. And this is the desk they always sit at when they're here and need to do some work. And Gortash has stocked it as a wizard's desk. He's made it their desk. And he's working at his workbench and they're working at their desk together in companionable silence. It's domestic, almost. And that's when the urge hits, with just absolutely crushing intensity, and they turn on gortash. Jokes on them, he's into that shit. After some back and forth between them (the level of explicitness is up to you! Or me, if I can get my act together and write this!), Vesper more or less jumps out the window and spends the next couple of days cutting a bloody swathe through baldur’s gate. When they finally return to him, gortash just asks them if they enjoyed their little vacation. After that, even when recreating much the same scene, the urge never comes on as strongly again (they don't know it at the time but this is the first time they've managed to throw off Bhaal's yoke when he really wanted them to kill someone. He never pushed that hard again with gortash because he's afraid of the consequences, though he still does push them to kill him a little bit).

Gortash gave durge a number of gifts over their acquaintance, both practical and fantastic: jewelry, enchanted items, clothes, shoes, books, any and everything you can imagine. He loves seeing them using his gifts, carrying or wearing something he gave them, because it helps mark them as his. He spends absolutely lavishly on them, buying them beautiful and fancy clothes for them to wear when they're in his house or out with him in public. He also buys them more practical gifts, well-fitting boots, weapons, armor, all of it enchanted and worth a small fortune.

On some of his gifts to Durge, he encodes messages for them in their cypher. They say things like "For my dearest assassin" and "To the sorrow of all" on a weapon and "pari pasu" (Latin for with equal step) and "I've always liked to play with fire", plus any number of other things.

Gortash has a thing for Durge wearing his clothes. One cold morning durge throws on his black coat when they get out of bed to check something and seeing them wearing nothing but his coat is such a thing for him that he ditches all their plans for the day to spend the day in bed with them.

Gortash has a number of affairs, to help his star rise in the upper city. He may use them to make durge jealous, but they are ultimately people to be used and discarded. He doesn't care what they do, because they're tools. Durge is his. His partner. And that's why he doesn't share.

[flymmsy]

[MOD] Gortash Dialogue Fix

Restores Durge-specific dialogue in Gortash's office scene when making an alliance. Note: Has only been tested on a vanilla Hotfix 22 build, so further testing may be required. Please let me know if you run into any issues.

Download on Nexus

(This is my love letter to you, Durgetash lovers.)

[ddarker-dreams]

Locke, I don't interact with fandoms much but uhhh could you help a girl out and explain the appeal to ENVER-EVIL-ASS-GUY-GORTASH??? 😭😭😭

Like I don't see the appeal 😭 but that's ok 🙏 i can be converted !!! Would you care to explain a lil what it is that you like about him? 👉���

(On another note, how do you feel about Astarion or any other characters you'd like to talk about (just in generallll))

rubbing my lil hands together ... ohohoho........... for months, i have languished in silence, biding my time until i could conduct my Enver Gortash proselytization. i'll begin with some broad strokes then focus in on the dynamic i built a loose storyline around.

among the dead three's chosen, he's the most reasonable (although, to be fair, the competition isn't steep). his willingness to share authority with tav/durge belies a certain pragmatism most power-hungry folk lack. this is probably why bane picked him out from the riffraff. he's vain, sure (what with his portrait being plastered everywhere), but he isn't arrogant. he knows that to see his goals realized, he'll need to cooperate with others. patience, compromise, calm in the face of unexpected circumstances; these attributes disguise and strengthen his tyranny.

this snippet from the readable item, the ultimate state, specifically the bolded portion is of great interest to me:

What is progress? Progress is the movement of society and culture towards a state of collective unity. Without unity, mortals, each with their own individual agenda, blunder against each other, causing friction, conflict, war. Unity - peace and prosperity - is achieved when the collective follows a single agenda, that of one superior person.

he wants a functioning society, not a wretched one, where evil's inflicted for evil's sake. with that out of the way, i can finally elaborate on my neoliberal business major x humanities major dynamic. i'm sorry to everyone who read that cursed sentence, but it describes this relationship so well, i can't bring myself to delete it .

your early interactions with lord gortash are rife with tension. he senses your disdain, finding it more amusing than threatening. you're an idealist, well-intentioned yet naïve to the ways of the world, at least in his initial appraisal. when your path's cross, he entertains your perspective. you dislike his rhetoric, he believes your aims are as likely to happen as a reconciliation between shar and selûne.

you do have potential though — he won't deny that. gortash starts looking forward to your little run-ins (occasionally organizing these 'coincidental' encounters behind the scenes). unlike the other fools championing your bleeding heart cause, you walk the walk. he can't help but admire that quality. you'll inevitably be treated to one of those 'we're not so different, you and i,' spiels from him. you're easy on the eyes and make for pleasant company, this development was inevitable, in his opinion.

you wanted him to be this wicked, heartless monster, he can see your inner conflict when you realize this isn't the case.

there's a thrill in wooing you. gortash begins inviting you over, offering to make concessions on this or that issue should you plead your case effectively enough. and he does so enjoy hearing your arguments. it's a window into the workings of your mind; his latest intrigue. a few goblets of wine in, he's steering the conversation away from politics or philanthropy and into subjects more personal.

he already knows a great deal about you, courtesy of his vast information network. it spans throughout baldur's gate and beyond. naturally, he keeps this information to himself. you may have an inkling of a suspicion, but he's utilized so many proxies that nothing definitive can be traced back to him.

you develop some influence over him. you haven't made him soft per se, he's just more willing to 'do good' then before, since it'll earn your respect. it's still a means to an end.

[mumms-the-word]

Illithid Souls

A Deep Dive Series

I've collected all my deep dives about illithid souls here for your convenience! These posts look into the question of if illithids have souls inside or outside of the BG3 game lore, with a more focused look in parts 2 and 3 at the cases of Tav/Durge, Orpheus, Karlach, and Gale.

Ultimately I came to my own conclusions, but I'm by no means trying to sell you on the idea that I'm the expert and can't be wrong. I wrote these mostly to gather lots of lore in one (or three) contained space(s) with both a textual and visual aspect, so that it makes lore-gathering/reading/viewing more fun.

As with all my deep dives, these posts are designed to equip you with some lore so you can build your own theories and ideas, but I do guide and organize my thoughts in ways that make sense to me, and present theories that I think are interesting or feasible. But lore is always a little hazy so I’m bound to be wrong or you’re bound to interpret things differently. Just have fun with the lore!

Without further ado~

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Illithid Souls - Part 1

What’s up with mind flayers and souls anyway?

This post begins by defining what D&D calls a soul, which is notoriously hard to define in any capacity both in or out of D&D lore. We look briefly at what happens when a soul dies normally, what Withers has to say about mind flayers and souls, and what D&D guidebooks like the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide and Volo's Guide to Monsters have to say about the afterlife, souls, and mind flayers. Basically, this is your intro to D&D souls lore before we get to how the game follows or ignores that same lore.

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Illithid Souls - Part 2

The Case Studies: Tav/Durge and Orpheus

This post dives into some interesting context from the game for the Emperor, Tav/Durge, and Orpheus. Though I use Tav/Durge as the official case study here, looking at dialogue and reactions when Tav/Durge turns into a mind flayer, it's worth nothing that most Origin runs handle the mind flayer thing exactly the same way. This is where the D&D lore gets left behind a little bit and we get to really see how the game changes or adopts the concept of mind flayer souls. Read this one if you'd like a little more info about how your OC Tav/Durge might be affected by illithidness!

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Illithid Souls - Part 3

The Case Studies: Karlach and Gale

The final post looks specifically at in-game evidence or lore for Companion!Karlach that turns into a mind flayer, as well as what unique options an Origin run Gale gets if he decides to become a mind flayer at the end of the game. I ended up with a lot of questions while writing this post and I don't have answers for all of them, but it was fascinating to see some of the unique stuff you only see if you make Karlach a mind flayer, or are playing as Gale and decide to become illithid. Karlach provides some additional context to what it's like to be a special mind flayer in BG3, and Gale's Origin endings as a mind flayer are certainly unique and strange. Worth reading parts of if you're interested in either character!

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As with all deep dives and metas, this is all just for fun! Yes, I called days of research and writing and editing fun, because I'm a...well. A thorough bitch, as Swoop would say. But I couldn't fit everything that exists in these posts and I did make a couple of decisions to leave things out, like extended conversations with the Emperor and basically any mention of Omeluum (sorry Omeluum, love you buddy! you have a soul in my heart) because I just didn't know where to put those things in.

So basically, this is not the end-all, be-all of lore! I'm happy to answer questions in the replies or in asks as well, just know that everything will be couched as my opinion and that you are encouraged to interpret the lore in ways that suits your play styles, headcanons, or beliefs.

Just have fun with it!

[an-excellent-choice]

While I like thinking about how the dead three's chosens (Ketheric, Orin, Gortash) could be redeemable. Today, I want to think deeper and talk about how they are irredeemable. (i like villains being villains oki)

So, all three of them have tragic backstories that you can sympathize with Ketheric losing his family and being ignored by his goddess, Orin being indoctrinated from the very start and her mother trying to kill her, Gortash being sold off and fighting for his life every step of the way.

So, these three experience the worst in life and thus also started doing horrible things. Generally, people in pain can cause great hurt to others but these three had specific actions that made them irredeemable.

These actions for me is inflicting the same pain they have experienced but worst. They didn't just continue the cycle of pain but they multiplied the pain in their cycles.

They had this pain and rather than think that nobody deserves the pain I experienced because it destroyed me. They decided that I experienced this, now it is your problem and your turn for it.

Ketheric lost his faith because he lost his family. Ketheric then proceeded to subjugate and murder families for still having faith in Selune. Not only that but he also cursed the very lands that were once filled with by families and friends.

Orin's mother attempted to murder her on Sarevok Anchev orders for Bhaal's approval. Orin ended up murdering (or attempted to murder) durge because she wanted to be the chosen one on nobody's orders.

Gortash was sold off by his parents and had fight his way to freedom/life. Gortash sells Karlach into slavery knowing full well that she will be a prototype to the engines. Karlach can never be free because of it, no matter how hard she fights or runs she still an engine for a heart that needs to stay in hells.

They are great villains. Sympathetic but still monsters in the end. Maybe redeemable but unforgivable for their victims