#sometimes you really like something but it just isn't meant to be

[bunnys-kisses]

lust is a loaded hand gun

max verstappen

cw: smut/pwp, ferrari!reader, baby fever, seduction, cowgirl position, alcohol/drinking, breeding, the reader wants to have a baby and chooses to have it with max, max is not aware

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this sounded stupid. but you wanted a baby. and while that was an easy task for most women, you knew that there was something impersonal about picking from a catalogue. reading profiles felt weird, like you were looking for a used car rather than the biological other half of your child. even if you'd raise them without a father, you'd rather have a night of passion than an awkward doctor's visit.

charles leaned back in his seat and asked, "why don't you and i just make one." he shrugged his shoulders. he considered himself close to you. you had been teammates for a little over two seasons and prior to that you knew each other. he didn't mind being the one to help you bring a child into the world, "i can be his uncle and he'd never know."

but, as close as you were to your teammate. you had other drivers in mind.

you made a face, "no offense, charles. but it would feel like doing it with my brother." being teammates meant you two knew too much about one another. you worked well as teammates and rivals because you were more like siblings. while you appreciated the offer, you felt it was weird.

charles asked, relaxed in his seat, "why are you doing this anyway? isn't there a million ways for you to have a child."

you shrugged, "i want to be a mom, i don't know. leave my seat behind to another woman and let her make all the history. i'm honestly tired. i've reached the peak and now." you sighed, "i want something else. i've got enough money to retire and let my future child retire before they're born." you crossed your arms, "i don't want to be doing this shit until i'm forty and just degrade in the skills department. end on a high note." while it was not an insult to other driver's on the grid. you felt bad that they never got to really be parents due to the schedules.

"so you need to seduce a driver to make that happen."

you nodded, out of the corner of your eye you spotted the driver you had your eye on. while you eyed the man crossing your path, your voice got softer, "and i think i know just the driver."

charles looked over to the direction you were looking at. he noticed who was walking by and he looked back to you, shoulders dropped, "max. you're going to seduce and have a child with max?"

you looked back to charles and shrugged, "why not? what's not to like?" max wasn't a perfect man, sometimes you wondered about the mechanics of his brain. but, you knew your child with him would lay waste to the track in the future.

"i can name a few. do you want them alphabetically or severity of it?" charles asked.

you gave him a look, "it wouldn't be hard to get him to sleep with me. you, me and the rest of the garage has seen how he looks at me. i mean who else do i have to choose from? either they're too old, they're rookies, or they have girlfriends. and i'm not getting a heel in the eye because i'm trying to have a baby."

charles rubbed the bridge of his nose, "i think you just like him."

you tensed up for a moment, "no. this is all just simple. scheming... nothing more. i don't expect to trap him with a child. he is free to live his life after i'm done with him."

charles found it hard to believe. not on your end, but max's. he had heard at sickeningly lengths about how max felt for you. it was probably the most eloquent the driver had ever been. if you got pregnant by him, he'd be getting a ring the next day. he sighed once more, "then have fun with the wold champion. i'd say to be safe, but i think being unsafe is the whole point of this."

you gave the once over of max in the near distance and smiled, "don't worry charles, you'll get all the details in the morning." which earned a groan from your teammate.

-

it started over a bottle of wine and ended in the motor home of red bull. you and max had gotten frisky over the evening. you wondered if anyone was selling the photos of you two in the back of the restaurant to tmz or some other trashy outlet. you had shared two bottles of wine over dinner. the benefit of being as wealthy as you were, you could throw the cash onto the table and giggle as you stumble out of your place.

you knew someone had a photo of max kissing you at the table to 'taste' the sauce that came with your meal. as if he couldn't take some from the plate.

but back in the motor home, you had dropped your purse by the door. in the dark of the place, you two were starting to get undressed. heels kicked to the wall, your bracelets set on the coffee table. your dress was on the floor by the bed, your bra over the lamp by the bed and your panties on the bed.

"i'm on top." you said as you kissed max's lips. he tasted like wine and fine dining. he tasted and smelled expensive. in all fairness he could be worth more than a micro nation. he was not an easy man to buy, but the currency of sex was in high demand. max wanted you, and you knew that because he got on his back without much argument.

you were both naked on the bed. the faint lights gleamed through the large windows as you rubbed up against max with no other lighting. you could see his face against the shadows of the night. his blue eyes were like gems and they pulled you in. whoever he ended up with would be very lucky.

but tonight you needed him. he was an important piece in your plan. you rubbed against him and with a little help, you sank down onto his cock. while cowgirl wasn't the best position to try and get pregnant, but it ensured that your plan would work. any position is a working one.

"you're beautiful."

"i know." you said as you rubbed yourself against him. you braced your hands on his strong chest. he was a handsome man, he was good at what he did and he was a winner. you knew anyone would be lucky to have him, but tonight was the perfect partner. you knew a child with him would be perfect.

you continued to rub up against him. the roll of your hips were methodical. this wasn't the first time you slept with a man. you moaned when max groped your breasts, massaged the flesh between those bear paws he called hands. soon you sank on his cock and shuddered, feeling the heat raise in your belly.

this was a mission, no time to get attached. you were both tipsy from the alcohol and the driver under you were more handsy than ever. you try not to feel the emotions that came with it. the feeling of being attached to someone you were having sex with. you batted charles' assumptions about your feelings for max out of your mind as you rode the dutch driver.

you were determined to get pregnant tonight. you measured it all down to a t, all you needed was for max not to get whiskey dick. you curved your back to get closer to him, your lips met his as you moved up and down. his cock was snug in your, but it went in almost perfect. the blunt head hit against the furthest parts of you. your heart hammered in your chest as you moved your hips.

you pushed hair out of your face before your braced your hands on his chest once more. he was very toned, you almost wanted to joke about what happened to his slightly kinder chocolate addiction. but that was neither here nor there.

"you feel so good." he grunted, "why haven't we done this before? fuck." he panted, he could feel the heat in his cheeks as you rode him. he had been with others before but being under you was a pleasure no money could buy. you were really good at it, knowing exactly how to make him feel good.

"good things take time." you panted, part of you wondered what would happen if you covered his mouth. you didn't need the dirty talk, this was a mission. if you wanted a casual friends with benefits, you'd try something online or another in the paddock. fucking max was a certainly that you'd get pregnant. it didn't have to be intimate or soft. it was a means to an end, and you'd get there no matter what.

the sounds of your fucking filled the room as you continued to move against him. you raked your nails down his chest, catching his nipples which made him moan. he was cute on his back, letting you take over. you wondered how deep his affection for you went.

you didn't want the emotional baggage of it all. tonight you were both drunk and having sex in the motor homes. it would be a one night stand before you two finished out the season. you could feel the heat across your back as you stared at him.

his eyes were closed and his mouth slightly open as he panted heavily. there was heat in his face and you felt something tug in your chest. he was beautiful, you hated to admit it. but max verstappen was a pretty boy.

he was already blissed out, his noises forced you by the movement of your hips. you licked your lips and without thinking, you left a mark on his collarbone. it was stupid, but it excited your further.

you continued to move against him. your breasts bounced with each move of your hips. you felt moans in the back of your throat and a hum in your soul. pleasure was close and it wasn't long before you really worked yourself onto his cock and finished.

the tightness around his cock made max's back arch a little bit. he could feel the heat in the back of his head. his heart pounded as he watched you continue to ride his cock. he panted heavily and soon climaxed as well. you made sure to get everything you could out. you kissed him once more before you stopped. when you pulled away you got off of his waist and laid down on the bed.

"wow." he said out of breath.

you didn't want to talk. instead you turned your head to kiss him on the lips to keep him quiet. there was no time for mushy romantic bedroom talk. you needed him to fall asleep before you could leave.

you tried to count down the seconds, placing kisses across his heated face. you reminded yourself that there would be some lucky enough to keep him for life.

when you pulled away from his lips after one last kiss, he curled up beside you and right then fell asleep. you stayed awake, when the heat cooled in your body. you hoped your mission was a success. the lust and the alcohol still made its rounds in your body. but you were lucid enough to find your clothes in the dark and slip out of the motor home before morning.

you'd never bring up the event to max, only briefly mentioning it to charles. you'd drive harder after that, in the end you'd secure a world championship. as you kissed the trophy and your country's national anthem played, you were already pregnant with your child.

-

your retirement was a shock to max. you could've easily decorated your home with many trophies over the next few years. but at the end of the 2024 season, you bowed out. you thanked fans and told them that it was a new chapter in your life. and then like that you fell off the face of the earth over the off-season.

max tried to find ways to contact you. where did you go? what happened? why leave at the height of it all? the more he thought about it, the more questions were raised in his head. he asked around the paddock, even going as far as to ask charles where you went. the other drive shrugged and told him that you moved back to your home country with a "little extra luggage". there were no social media posts. nothing. it nagged in the back of his brain for what felt like a lifetime. what happened to ferrari's princess?

it wasn't until almost three years later, max had claimed another world championship. it felt like these days he was riding high. he was still the best. but as he walked into the paddock to train for the upcoming season, he stopped in his tracks. he felt like he was splashed with cold water.

there you were, three years older with a glow to you. you were laughing with charles and lewis, you looked different but in a good way. you were in overalls and a ferrari shirt underneath. you were more curvy than you were when you were driving. and while you were still beautiful like the sun, pulling max in. what made his stomach drop was who was in your arms.

a young boy, with big curious eyes and round cheeks. he held onto you tightly, his small fists in the fabric of your shirt. he seemed curious about the track, but not scared of how big it all felt. while max would've assumed that you got married and had a child as a lot of people did. but that's not what had happened.

max knew right away at the first glance of your son. looking at him was like looking at max's childhood photos. even in features that matched your own, your son carried a lot of max in him. the itch in his brain after you fell off the earth all those years ago came back, this was where you went. the boy looked like him and if he was right about the boy's age then dates lined up. there was no question. max verstappen was your son's father. and when you noticed him staring. you simply smiled and gave him a wink, shifting the boy in your arms and pointing at the me. when your son smiled, max felt something in his gut. looking at you, holding your (his) son, made max feel like he was home. and all those feelings he had been carrying poured back into his head and heart. the same emotions that allowed you to bed him. <3

sequel (11/11)

[rosyhoneydew]

A quick love letter to my Bucktommy family in the form of a fix-it <3

Bucktommy | fix-it | Teen | 1141 words | warnings: this is angsty at the start and tiptoes toward addressing biphobia so please care for yourself and don't read if that will exacerbate your hurt.

They're three beers deep when the doorbell rings again.

It's been a fucking night. He hadn't really had much to say to Eddie when he got there, thankfully he hadn't had to, especially considering Eddie was clearly in the midst of his own kind of night. It feels better, not being alone, at least. But the alcohol mixes with his head and twists the moment in his apartment further. How come every time I want to move forward I get pushed back?

He's not even paying attention when Eddie goes up to get the door, just fiddles with the bottle in his hand more, peeling the label into tiny pieces and laying them on Eddie's coffee table for him to pick up later.

"Shit-" Eddie stumbles as he makes his way. And then Buck can feel a little breeze as he goes to tell whoever it is that this isn't a good time.

"Oh thank god-" Buck freezes, determined not to turn around. "I wasn't sure you'd be home but I think I fucked up."

That's Tommy.

"I panicked a little. Evan asked me to move in and I think I freaked out."

"Uhh-" Eddie adds.

"We just got done talking about my ex who I had to end an engagement with and it just- it felt like he was trying to make up for his own freak out about it and-" Buck hears him take a deep breath, "I didn't want to force him into doing something he didn't really want to do, you know? He- he should get to make sure that's what he really wants." He takes another breath. "Are you not wearing pants?"

"Umm-"

Buck's heart rate had steadily ramped up hearing Tommy speak, but it's when he stops that Buck feels tears prickle at his eyes. He whips around then, still nestled into Eddie's couch, betrayal in his voice when he speaks.

"I did!" and shit. He didn't really mean to shout that.

"I'm gonna..." Eddie trails off as he heads into his bedroom.

"Why do you think I didn't make sure that's what I wanted?" he demands. He hadn't thought he'd be so angry, but this felt like something to him, and Tommy's running. Again. "Because that girl hit on me at the restaurant?"

Tommy looks shell-shocked. Like he's still grasping the fact that Buck is here, so Buck just keeps talking.

"Or because I haven't dated a man before? So I must not know what I'm talking about, right?"

"Buck-"

"Don't call me that."

"Evan," Tommy steps a little closer, and Buck leans toward the cushions, petty, but feeling raw still. "That is not why."

Buck levels him with a look.

"Okay, what you said is fair enough," he relents. "I didn't mean to make it seem like you couldn't make your own decisions about this."

"What did you mean?"

Tommy looks away for a moment, a flicker of pain on his face.

"I meant... what I said," he lands on. "You would break my heart, Evan."

"You don't know that." The tears finally crest over his lower lids and make their way to his mouth. "You can't just give up every time you're scared that I'm going to leave you, Tommy. It's not fair, you're not even giving me the chance to stay."

Tommy's lip wobbles a little now too, but he stays and listens.

"I wanted to stay, I wanted you to stay. With me. Permanently. Why would you think I would leave you?"

He cries now, and Buck hasn't ever seen him cry.

"I don't know," he gets out, choked and soft. "I see you, sometimes. With the 118 and everyone's families and I... I don't feel like I fit, Evan. I don't get how I fit into that."

"You fit into it because you're my boyfriend. My partner."

"I am?" he asks, treading closer ever slightly to the couch.

This time Buck leans his way. He sets his bottle down and looks down at his hands.

"Did you mean what you told Eddie? You fucked up? Because I fucked up, once, at the beginning of us, and you gave me that second chance and I'm so glad you did, Tommy, because these last few months have been better than I could've hoped. I don't want to let that go because of this so... yeah you can be, if you want."

Tommy rushes to the couch, he sits as close as he can get and grabs Buck's hands firmly. Warm and sure.

"I want that. I want us again. Please."

"You can have it," Buck whispers, resting his head on Tommy's shoulder. He squeezes Tommy's hands. "Just don't leave again, please."

"I won't, I won't."

Then there's a kiss at the crown of his head, and Tommy's other hand rubs soft circles over his back. He murmurs sweet nothings in Buck's ear all the while.

I'm sorry. I'm glad you were here. I missed you as soon as I walked out the door. I'm staying. I'm staying. I'm staying.

They sit like that for a while until a throat clearing from the hallway has them both lifting their heads to find Eddie, fully-clothed.

"What were you guys doing before I got here, by the way?" Tommy asks, humor back in his voice.

"Well, I was drinking my sorrows away. I don't know what Tom Cruise was doing."

"Ha ha," Eddie says, making his way to the couch, no qualms about forcing them to scooch over to make room. "We can talk about my shit tomorrow. You guys worked it out I guess?"

Buck looks up at Tommy, smiles, and kisses him with a loud peck just to make Eddie huff and roll his eyes.

"Yeah," Tommy says, looking at ease. "Although..." he starts.

Buck turns to him, raising an eyebrow.

"I don't know that moving into your place is going to work," Tommy admits.

Buck sits up a little, mouth just opening to speak when Tommy cuts him off.

"I want to live with you, Evan, but your place is barely big enough for one person, so maybe we can workshop location, yeah?" he smiles a crinkly smile, the kind that always lets Buck know he's feeling fond, feeling secure.

It's Buck's turn to huff now. "It gets good light," he grumbles.

Tommy kisses his temple again, Buck gets the distinct feeling that he will be getting kissed quite a bit in the near future, and he chances a quick look at Eddie to see if they're being annoying.

Instead, he sees Eddie smiling too, he's looking on like he's proud and it makes Buck want to tear up again. Eddie gives him a nod and Buck nods back.

A weight lifts off his shoulders then. In the arms of the man he's growing to love and accepted by his family.

~~~~

I want to say a quick thank you to everyone who read, commented, shared my fics, sent me nice messages about my writing for these two, and to everyone who created content for them while they were canon. I'm thankful for every minute of it :)

[peskyvinot]

I've been thinking about mod Mleems commentary under this hc recently, and smyh was bugging me. not in the sense of me disliking it in any way, but in the (all too familiar) qutistic sense of not Getting something. so I was wandering what the "corruption" meant here. I didn't come to a conclusion BUT it opened up another stinky can of worms in me brain

xb, in my mind, is a late decendant of the ocean guardians family. ocean guardians existed Way before a Player was created. the guardian mobs existed with the ancient creatures (who built and concured and left the ships and loot behind. they weren't a Player tho). so his kind had a rich history, but he Is a hybrid. he's not fully guardian.

and he knows the ocean as a combination of what he can physically see (the buried remains of loot, the rich flora and fauna, magic seeping through some of the waters like a thin layer of electricity) and what his family and the Elders taught him about the history, even if the original meaning of Why the monuments were created are lost in history, the instincts and the gratitude are set deep within the guardians as a matter of fact.

that being said, the ocean Changed. after all, (in my vision) the coders, the mojang, exist as... well, not gods, but creatures of the greatest powers of creation. so yes, corals didn't really exist in his childhood. but whats fascinating is...so didn't the fishing loot.

xb always wondered, what was up with that? I mean the concept of magic is Deffenetely not new, but he really was surprised when the waters started to feel Different with the upcoming updates. he wanted to see the enchanted books that everyone afk-fisged for as a gift and an exploit, but something just didn't feel right. the books were not like the used up old but sturdy fishing rods you could fish up, obviously left by the same creatures who left the sunken ships behind. the books, in fact, looked brand new, without a Smear of the effect the ocean should've had on them... I mean, sure, the enchanted books are quite sturdy and protected by magic, but if they really came from the ocean floor, did the pressure Really not effect it? that's the things xb thinks about sometimes when zoned out. it isn't scary, but it's a little disturbing not Knowing smth about his ocean. but other hermits don't seem to question it, after all, The Coders add wacky stuff all the time! no need to question it. no need to question anything, the topic really worthy of discussion only when the coders realised they messed up and the loot was reduced down...

xb was excited when many hermits desided to be connected with the ocean/water bodies in season 10, only to realise that

-grian frequently curses the ocean

-gem builds the horrors

-and false ripped up the rivers to build new ones

he's, In fact, quite protective of the ocean. so much for being the guardian royalty. and now his whole world (the hermits. friens) collided with his other whole world (the ocean he was born to protect)

The ocean that was his home is... different, now. Corrupted. Eldritch creatures haunt the depths, and the whole thing seems more hostile. It worries him.

-Mod Mleem

[epickiya722]

I am seeing a lot of people in the jjk fandom idolize sukuna and empathize with him and say that his backstory is more compelling and interesting than geto's and that geto's radicalization journey was not interesting and relatable.

And while I understand that sometimes it can be hard to understand a character that wants to commit genocide I feel like that take is so shallow?

Part of me thinks its just a product of the ship wars but also its deeply fascinating that they would put geto's crimes and sukuna's crimes next to each other and say sukuna is better out of the two of them.

I feel like it has been a deliberate choice by gege to give a drawn out backstory only to geto while not giving Heian era flashback to sukuna as many wanted because the story wants you do understand geto (not agree but understand) while sukuna is presented as a villain even though there are crumbs of his backstory in there but not as nuanced and detailed like geto's.

I don't know I'm rambling but I feel very sad when I see people dismiss geto and his radicalization journey and in the same breath say that sukuna is more relatable.

But fandom is gonna fandom of course.

Before I say anything, I am a fan of both mentioned characters. Sukuna is actually one of my top favorites (of course, after Yuji). So with that said, I don't care for anyone to act an ass and be like "fake fan" or "how dare you bash---". No, no, no. Chill out.

◇

You said something that I feel like some people tend to not do when it comes to villains in stories.

"Understand", that part right there.

Sometimes, I do think the writer can have the intention of readers to sympathize and/or empathize with the villain. However, it depends on the kind of villain. But, at best, when writers give backstories to these villains, it's to understand why the villain do what they do and how they became that villain.

You can understand a villain and still not sympathize or empathize with their actions.

In the case of Geto and Sukuna, I do find it odd that some will say Sukuna is more relatable than Geto. Especially, as you pointed out, Sukuna doesn't have as much backstory present in the canon story as Geto has. We'll get back to that.

Now, do I think people can't relate to Sukuna? No. I think if you relate to him, you can and I'm not stopping you. However, that doesn't mean Geto can't be relatable, too.

In story, both are presented as villains.

We don't know much about why Sukuna turned out the way he did, but we do for Geto.

I know that the arc is also called "Gojo's Past Arc", but it is also Geto's, too. It shows why he changed, too.

It boils down to the fact he was a teenager that was just as much as a victim like his friends were to a fucked up system ran by a conservative group of traditional folks who would rather exploit the people under them than get their hands dirty.

Geto, as many jujutsu sorcerers, witnessed deaths of people he came to care about and if it wasn't death, stress caught up to everyone and him as well as a growing distance played a part.

Now, while usually a teenager isn't going to resort to killing a bunch of people, teenagers (anyone really) have been put in positions that will make them feel helpless. That was Geto.

Bringing back the backstory thing...

What backstory? (Not directed to you, Anon.) As much as people were up in arms about "we didn't get the Heian Era backstory", it's just doesn't make sense to then turn around and Sukuna's backstory is more interesting than Geto's.

I ask again... what backstory?

I said it before, but none of these characters actually had a full backstory. Not just Sukuna.

No one had a backstory that showed everything. In fact, some bits and pieces are found out through fanbooks and interviews.

That may be on purpose. I know it felt like Gege may not have touched on a lot with the characters, but for some parts of the story, what if that is the point? Maybe we're not meant to focus on the past but on the present and future. (Reflecting how some characters are working to make the future better and being more adaptive to the present unlike other characters who are more traditional and stuck in the old ways.)

Yes, some parts of the past are meant to be known but that's meant to understand the present. That doesn't mean everything must be known.

With Sukuna, I feel like some did miss the mark with him. I'm not saying I'm right, but my guess is we're supposed to feel detached from him. We're meant to understand him, but not idolize him.

We don't know much about him because we're supposed to not see him as someone redeemable, someone not humane. Just as Sukuna portrays himself to be. Sukuna does nothing in the story worth going "Ah, he's just a hurt guy 🥺". Sukuna admits that everything he does is out of his own pleasure and selfish gains. He is aware of emotions, he knows what love is. He just chooses to not allow himself to feel those emotions. He doesn't allow himself that humanity.

Rereading the story, you can see how dismissive he can be even about himself. When he talks about eating his twin? He says it like it was just another day for him. When he tells Hajime about being an unwanted child? Again, he's dismissive. He states it with even a small smile on his face.

He has the title "King of Curses", but what are curses born from? Negative human emotions. Taking a guess here, but what if that title is meant to be fitting (other than visually) for Sukuna being metaphorically that how he sees himself? A curse born from the nasty nature of being human and he happens to be the strongest one of all?

For both characters, I do find them interesting in their own right. And I agree with you, I do think some of the fandom have their views on their characters because of shipping. I don't think shipping is the whole reason, but part.

(I think I know the ships, but I could be wrong. Both involve a certain white haired guy? I have no problem with either ship though.)

When it comes to Sukuna and Geto, I feel like some can mischaracterize both and stick to that fanon version of them just to make their ship more interesting.

With Sukuna, some tend to write him as only being attached to a certain person because "he gets him, he knows how to challenge me, I'm in love, he taught me love". When, just me probably, it's not that Sukuna doesn't understand love. I don't think he wants it, no matter the form of it. (Let's remember there are different kinds of love, folks.)

With Geto, it's like he can't stand as his own character because everything he does was only for one person and/or he's a lot worse than what he is.

When you compare who's worse and than say "it's Geto", that's wild. They both may came from a place of hurt, but let's not act like Sukuna is a Saint. He has done more heinous shit just for even the hell of it. Geto isn't the only villain here.

I know people will say "he's a genocidal maniac" but so is Sukuna??? Hello??

Let's be real, Geto's biggest kill counts definitely came from the village and maybe the Night Parade event and I say maybe because by then sorcerers may have already gotten civilians out and some people died at the hands of his followers.

But I doubt he actually was killing endlessly for ten years. I think he killed, but not as many as some of the fandom says. If he was that big of a problem, then why was he able to do whatever for TEN YEARS?! There is no excuse! They knew where he was at. If regular people knew, I know for a fact, the Higher-Ups knew. They could send a group or whatever? No, because Geto was collecting curses and as we see, he doesn't have to kill people to collect curses. He killed those that was no use to him, money wise. And maybe the occasional jackass.

I apologize, I rambled there.

Point is! Both characters are in the wrong for their actions. Both characters can be interesting, however you choose to feel. Find Geto boring, but Sukuna interesting? Alright. The vice versa? That's fine, too.

But regardless of backstory, or lack thereof, to idolize Sukuna and not Geto is rather absurd because "Sukuna is better". No, no. No. He's just as bad. He is evil. He literally had beef with his own nephew and sought to kill him. People in the Heian Era worshipped him out of fear. He wasn't some hero. Saying this as a Sukuna fan.

Both characters may be different, overall, but why excuse one character for the sake of "I think he's cooler"? That does nothing for the story at all! In fact, that's quite an injustice. Don't get the story, that's fine and all, I'm still understanding some things myself. I'm not an analyst expert on JJK at all.

I get having preferences, do you, folks. But let's not mix up fanon with canon and argue with people because of preferences. Do you truly like that character if you only seem to like a fanon version? Do you really hate a character if you try to worsen how they really are in the canon?

Sorry, this got longer than I intended! As you can see, I ramble!

[dinarosie]

Hi! I found your post on the growing hate toward Snape really thought provoking. Just curious are you planning to write a second part? I’d be super interested to see where you take it.

Hey! Thanks so much for your message.

When I first started writing this post, I actually planned for it to be a four part series. I wanted to go into how Snape’s genuine, pure love turned into an obsessive and somewhat dark emotion, or how he went from a strict, harsh teacher to someone whose behavior borders on criminal mistreatment of children. But honestly, I think there are far better posts out there that explain these transformations with much more clarity and depth. Since these shifts are often influenced by cultural perspectives, I worry my explanations might not come across as clearly. For instance, the concept of an 'incel' isn’t something commonly understood in my culture, so it’s hard for me to frame it accurately.

However, if you're interested, I did briefly touch on this in a reblog of this post, where I talked about how what was meant to represent Snape’s innocence, loyalty, and his ‘light side’ has, over time and with cultural shifts, been interpreted differently.. I came across a comment on Reddit under a post I wrote about Snape's hate, which I thought was really interesting, and I'd like to share it here as well:

u/WhisperedWhimsy: I think this is true. I read the books circa 2000 and then as they came out. I had internet access simultaneously. There was significantly less Snape hate during that time but also the quality was different. People hated Snape for his actual behavior and flaws and not exaggerated or made up things. And some people just loved to hate on him because mean teacher dungeon bat with his billowing cloak and drama is so easy to make a caricature of for laughs though I don't think those people in particular hated on him very seriously. And most telling about the time was that people who hated on Snape didn't automatically like Sirius, James, or Remus. Many people hated all across the board or maybe only liked 1 marauder but not the others and that was usually Sirius, sometimes Remus, but never James. I think we also need to consider the emergence of incel as a term widely used followed by social justice warriors and edge lords as part of internet culture and then more recently the anti v pro culture which is particularly targeted towards fandom. These shifts in perspective have over time influenced the fandom significantly imo. Particularly fans who are 30 and under seem most influenced in this way. Snape hate went from "I really don't like him but you do you" to vocal attacks on him as a character in a performative moral clout grabbing way similar to the SJWs with the mix of "he's an incel so he must be every possible kind of bigot and very creepy and a threat to women". The Rise in James' popularity felt very edge Lord when it started of bad faith arguments for why a guy who very obviously isn't so great is actually great. And then with the Anti v pro ship drama that is in every single fandom now it has become the norm to chalk certain questionable characters up to being pure evil and anyone who likes said characters is clearly also a horrible person and a predator.

[aro-culture-is]

Aro culture is not understanding why people break up if they had been swooning over each other.

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[emeraldspiral]

I think that's oversimplifying it.

I wouldn't call Dib "the antagonist", he's the deuteragonist. The secondary main character that the story revolves around, which is how I would also describe Zuko in ATLA, by the way.

His role and Zim's change depending on the story. Dib CAN be an antagonist if the story is framed from Zim's POV and Dib is the main antagonizing force or obstacle for him, such as in The Nightmare Begins or The Wettening. But this is actually pretty rare. Most episodes where the main conflict is between Dib and Zim are from Dib's POV where Zim is the antagonist, but sometimes even in Zim POV episodes like BBRP and Megadoomer the conflict is coming from his side, not Dib's. Most episodes where Zim isn't the antagonist use another character to antagonize Zim (Planet Jackers, Frycook, Plague of Babies, GIR Goes Crazy, etc...) or just don't have an antagonist (Walk of Doom, Germs, Door to Door, etc...)

Dib also actually does win his fair share of the time. In fact, I believe someone did a tally and determined the win/loss ratio between them only slightly favored Zim. Such is the nature of a show that relies on a status quo where neither character can win at their main goal.

If the question was "Who could expose Zim?", then the cartoon logic answer would be applicable because there are very clear rules in place that forbid Dib from ever succeeding at exposing Zim, proving anything paranormal to be true, or gaining respect or recognition, which do not apply to Dipper.

But there's no rule saying Dib can't succeed at anything or specifically a physical confrontation. There's a whole montage of him beating Zim up on the playground at school in ARWAM and he succeeds in escaping Zim's trap in that same episode. He wrestles Zim for his camera and wins in Megadoomer, only taking an L for the lens cap being on. He outflew Zim in Battle of the Planets (by just not being dumb enough to follow him into an asteroid field). He hacked the robot duplicate of himself and stopped Zim from using it to sabotage his father's invention. He's successfully infiltrated Zim's base/bugged it more than once and even broke into Tak's base, which required scaling a massive skyscraper. He fixed up Tak's ship (with Gaz's help) and persuaded it to resist Zim's control and save him before it decided to self-delete. He successfully tracked down Chickenfoot and proved it to be a hoax. He tricked Zim with the bologna tack, pummeled Zim with dodgeballs in gym class, got his candidate elected class president instead of Zim, and in the movie he actually got his dad and sister to show him some love and support and even got humanity to act in their own best interests for once to stop the Florpus.

If we're bringing cartoon logic into the equation, then we have to construct a whole storyline around the conflict that would have Dib and Dipper fighting and the answer would just depend on what made sense for the story. Is it funnier if Dipper gets fed up with Dib's shit and knocks him out cold in one punch? Or funnier if Dib beats up Dipper and then gets some kind of karmic punishment that doesn't rely on Dipper using force because that's not something Disney wants to promote? You probably could not write a convincing story where Dipper was the asshole and you were supposed to laugh at him getting beaten up by Dib because Dipper is supposed to be likable and sympathetic and have the audience root for him while Dib is meant to be a Chew Toy whose misery the audience can revel in.

But if we're just looking at what the characters are capable of outside the bounds of narrative restraints, Dib is a lot quicker to resort to violence and to spring into action before his opponent has time to react, is in really good shape, extremely durable, and strong enough to embed dumbells in the wall. He's actually so physically fit it allows him to get away with doing insanely reckless shit on a regular basis, like running into traffic and climbing onto moving vehicles. But he's also a genius and his inventions actually don't backfire or malfunction on him hardly ever (it's magic that tends to be ineffective or backfire on him) and he's resourceful enough that he could even survive days in the woods without any technology when GIR stole his identity in the comics.

[mantisgodsdomain]

We ought to write more Pokemon fic some time. We want to recreate the Pokemon Manners/Human Manners cheat sheet that we made a few years ago we think that this site would like the Sliding Scale Of Politeness When Greeting A New Pokemon You've Never Met Before.

[giantkillerjack]

My sister-in-law frustrates me to no end even though we barely ever interact because she keeps inviting my partner to parties with her Christian Republican friends, even though my partner told her not to send an invite to us if those friends will be there. And even though my sister-in-law is bisexual!!

And then she turns around and complains about not knowing how to deal with her friends saying, like, horrible sexist stuff as though that is just some natural unavoidable quirk of having friends!

Like, these Christian Republicans she has befriended don't seem to be kind - they're not even nice a lot of the time! They don't make for good friends, and she doesn't seem happy or supported in relation to them. In fact, she basically only ever talks about how her friends and/or current boyfriend are making her unhappy!

Because here's the thing: The effect of prioritizing 'including your Trump-supporter friends at your parties' over 'being invested in creating a safe space for marginalized people in your home', is that people who DO care about creating those safe spaces... won't wanna hang out with you! Because if you invite both cats and mice to your table equally, only the cats will show!

She's so afraid of losing the shitty friends she has now that she allows them to act as barriers to accessing friends who are invested in her wellbeing in a capitalistic hellscape!

It makes me sad because she's basically trapped herself, and there's nothing I can do to offer help without either compromising my morals or making my partner's life way harder by starting shit with her family.

Like, I consider myself a good friend, yeah? I try really really hard to be one, and it matters to me immensely. I am ride-or-die for the folks I love, and I am invested in being open and vulnerable and radically safe to be around when it comes to building strong friendships that are mutually fulfilling. I have a unique talent for validating people that I have honed for years because I genuinely want to make sure people feel safe and loved and seen.

And if my sister-in-law and I were friends, I could give all of that to her. I would strive to be an example of what it looks like when someone decides to care about you and treat you right on purpose, without expecting anything in return but your mutual respect. She would be family. She would be [Queer] Family. I would see to it that she knew she could call on me when she needed a friend.

But like.

This asshole has invited me to hang out with Trump supporters on multiple occasions.

We ain't gonna be friends.

[gamingavickreyauction]

I'm not sure if this is meant to relate to my thought experiment- I will assume it isn't.

I am a preference utilitarian, so I don't have an issue with the starving artist- if they value a sense of achievement over pleasure and absence of discomfort, that is entirely their prerogative. I'm not trying to force people into pleasure machines when I'm not horny. If the artist prefers creating their work, then by definition that is a higher utility for them than slutting out. If the artist thinks they are sacrificing preference utility for achievement, they just don't understand preference utility. The only situation I can think where that's arguably not true is an addiction, where there is a conflict between the decision someone wants to make in the moment and their enduring goals.

Well… what the hell does "net satisfied" mean? How do you measure the strength of a preference?

There are two questions here, one of ontology, one of empirical application, but I agree that they are very related. I don't think of preference as a neural state- again I am not a hedonic utilitarian. Preference may be a neural phenomenon, but no one understands how exactly, so I don't think that's a helpful way to think of them, and define them in terms of this counterfactual, as is standard. Perhaps if neurobiologists get really good I'll have an answer to how to translate a neurological state into a strength of preference- but probably not.

For x to have more utility than y just means you will choose x over y. This means you can't necessarily work out total utility by summing up utility over time, because it is possible that e.g. someone might prefer slutting out to completing artwork B if they already created artwork A 30 years earlier, so you can't necessarily just assign utilities to individual activities and sum them up- although in most cases you basically can, I think.

What this means for Bob is that the sum total of utility across an entire lifetime isn't necessarily a coherent concept- and doesn't need to be for utilitarianism to work. Utility takes values in an affine space, not a vector space. If you were to try and give a zero to this affine space, in my view the only logical choice would be the state of nonexistence. In which case whether the state of Bob living out his life is prefered to zero is by definition whether Bob would choose to exist (in possession full understanding, etc.).

This raises several more difficult questions- whose preferences matter? the artist now or the artist 30 years ago? I struggle with these non-identity problems, but I think every ethical system does, and it doesn't usually throw up problems in the day-to-day.

So far this only gives ordinal utility. To put numbers to it- get a strength of preference- the standard answer comes from lotteries: you can't tell if someone wants an orange twice as much as they want an apple by asking if they would prefer one orange to two apples, because the second apple is worth less to them than the first. But you can ask if they would prefer a guaranteed apple to a 1/2 probability of getting an orange. In practice people are bad at making decisions about probability, so you say it's what they would choose if they thought about it for a while, and maybe change the scenario to a 1% chance of an orange vs a 2% chance of an apple, so that distaste for uncertainty doesn't enter into the picture.

I think this works fine for most things- this is how I think about my own utility, and is a thought experiment I sometimes pose myself when I am unsure what to do. However for some people, such as you, they may have preferences over lotteries that don't fit this mold, so what answer you would get depends on the specific choice of lotteries to compare, making this not work as a measurement. There are heuristics, like looking at how much someone will pay for something, that can be used for these cases, and maybe 'would you like an orange on one day or apples on two days' would work for some people. But I don't really have a good account of cardinal utility for these odd individuals, and have to hope no questions come up about them that ordinal utility can't answer.

if you pick the wrong way of getting a fungible quantity out of a fundamentally non-numerical arrangement of matter, then what you have doesn't correspond to "ethics" anymore, right, it lacks normative force. It's just some number.

This is something that worries me, and I tend to think there is something 'real' that these questions about choices over lotteries are getting at. I cannot claim to understand others' minds, so maybe it is too bold of me to claim this applies to everyone, but it seems clear that everyone has preferences of different strengths, and it seems absurd to me that numbers couldn't describe these strengths, even if in practice people can't work out which numbers.

I think ordinal utilities are on quite solid footing, except where non-identity problems occurs (including people changing over time). Fundamentally, I'm saying try to give people whatever they ask for, so this is compatible with whatever view people take about what is valuable in their own lives. Maybe this is what addresses the core of your question- that utilitarianism doesn't really need to understand why people want what they want. It's just something that can be slotted in as an input to the system, and slotted out again when they change their mind.

When you're trading people's interests off against each other you do need to put numbers to things, and I've already admitted there are reasonable ontological concerns with cardinal utility. However at my core those concerns don't ring true with me, and they don't seem to matter much in practice. People seem to largely behave as if the strength of their preferences can be described by numbers, certainly in aggregate, so I'm quietly optimistic about the ability of the more rigorous empirical social cost benefit analysis methods to accurately measure something real about what the ethical thing to do is.

I think we are in agreement in having concerns about some of the ways preferences are empirically measured- willingness to pay measures count rich people's preferences as stronger than poor people's. They think Bezos is a utility monster when he's just a monster. I think even after adjusting for income (which you can approximately do) there can be issues with e.g. measuring the value of natural beauty this way, because natural beauty is something people don't expect to have pay for, which perhaps leads them to give lower numbers than if they really thought about it. I don't know a good fix for that one.

But these are just methodological problems with implementing policy based on utilitarianism, and people will over time devise better methods. So I don't take these to be problems with utiltarianism as a model of what our goal as a (global) society should be, but a problem with particular policies, or methodologies, to be cautious about.

@deaths-accountant I will, if I remember, think carefully about your thought experiment and respond to it soon (although I will probably change some details so that it is less similar to current events because I don't want people to misunderstand the nature of the discussion and get mad at me), but, in the mean time, here is a counter-thought-experiment for you:

Suppose there is a guy Bob, currently hanging out in the heavenly realm or whatever, and he is presented by an angel with the following choice:

Bob will be born into the world, and live an ordinary-seeming life. Over the course of his life, the net utility (under whatever form of utilitarianism you endorse; hedonic, preferential, etc.) which he contributes to everyone else in the world besides himself will be 0. In other words, the people of the world (not including him) will be no better off nor worse off for his being born. However, he himself, under the same conception of utility, will receive -ε net utils. He will have N (for reasonable large N) utils worth of joys, triumphs, etc., and -(N+ε) utils worth of pains, failures and so on. Thus, he will live a net-negative life.

Bob will not be born into the world, he will cease to exist.

Implicitly I'm discounting here all the thoughts and feelings that Bob experiences here in the heavenly realm before he is born (or not) as irrelevant, but if you don't feel comfortable with this you can just adjust the numbers so that the net utility of each choice comes out as intended above.

It is possible, I think, that in light of the above choice, Bob would select (2) and cease to exist. But I think it's also possible that Bob would say "no, I'll take (1), I want to have the joys and triumphs even if there turn out also to be a greater number of failures and losses". In particular, I am almost certain that I would choose (1), and not just for fear of death (the above scenario is an abstraction of choices that I have actually made, where no risk of death was involved).

The question is: would it be moral for the angel to override Bob here, "for his own good", and choose (2) for him?

By construction a utilitarian has to say yes. If ε is small the utilitarian might say "well, it's not a very big deal; the normative force behind overriding Bob and choosing (2) is low". But I can think of scenarios in which I would chose (1) even if (I believed that) ε was pretty significant, where this excuse doesn't work.

Also consider for instance... the archetype of the starving artist. The man who is committed to producing his Great Work even at significant cost to himself. Suppose that he has made many sacrifices in order to hone his craft, he's given up financial success and a social life, he lives in the mountains and, you know, carves statue after statue in pursuit of perfection. Suppose that he can rationally conclude that, when (if) he does complete his masterpiece, the satisfaction will be relatively small in the face of all the sacrifices he's made. I mean, yeah, he'll be happy, he'll feel fulfilled and genuinely, deeply satisfied. But on a literal, summative level, that just won't add up to the lifetime of late nights, missed opportunities for social connection, etc., either in terms of net pleasure or net preference satisfaction or whatever. But suppose also that on the day to day level he doesn't feel miserable, he's not suffering. He's toiling in pursuit of a deeply held personal goal, and it feels... well, "good" isn't always the word. But he is plenty motivated to keep going; he's out here in the mountains of his own accord. The fact that he judges that at the end of his life the utility tally won't come up positive for him doesn't weigh on him much. "Why should I care about some number?" he says. "Maybe I'd be net happier if I went out on the town and found a wife and settled down, but I don't want to do that. I want to complete my Great Work."

Is this artist doing something immoral by living his life the way he has? Would it be moral for a third party to step in and prevent him from pursuing his endeavors?

In both of these thought experiments, my extremely strong intuition is that the answer is "no", making choices for other people "for their own good" in this way is not moral. But this seems like a necessary consequence of any kind of utilitarianism, so I can't get behind utilitarianism.

The starving artist example gets to a more fundamental issue, too. I kept saying things like "he really wants to complete his Great Work, and it will make him very satisfied, but he will be more net satisfied if he gives up on that and lives a normal life". Well... what the hell does "net satisfied" mean? How do you measure the strength of a preference? He "really wants" to complete his Great Work, and materially that corresponds to a certain neural state, but how do you put a number on that neural state which is fungible with the numbers you put on all the other neural states of human life? You run into this problem in both hedonic and preference utilitarianism, because "preference" is a neural phenomenon. Is there even a well-defined abstraction here, is there even a coherent thing to which "preference strength" can possibly refer? Maybe, but I don't know that there is. And the problem is that if you pick the wrong abstraction, if you pick the wrong way of getting a fungible quantity out of a fundamentally non-numerical arrangement of matter, then what you have doesn't correspond to "ethics" anymore, right, it lacks normative force. It's just some number.

This is why I say that utilitarian-ish ethics are fine on the large scale, they're fine for the policy maker or the economist, who for methodological reasons simply needs to pick an ok enough abstraction on run with it. But on the scale of individual humans, individual minds, and what it "really means" to treat people right, I don't think utilitarianism can possibly hold up.

I might have made this exact post before somewhere, if so apologies for repeating myself.

[paint-music-with-me]

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[grenriv]

I wish I didn't feel so violently alienated from my own religion sometimes. like I really do believe in what I believe in and I want to have a better and deeper relationship with God and I would like to build relationships with other christians and then whenever I hear other people talking about doctrine/scripture/God it just feels. so cold to me. or even just the way they act in general. it's very hard to explain but it always sounds like they're reading from a script instead of voicing genuine thoughts and feelings and it makes me feel like there's a barrier between me and them or I'm doing something horribly wrong, even if at the root of it I do agree with what's being said

[oveliagirlhaditright]

So, I don't know if I'm ever going to watch the 5th Wave movie based on reviews I've seen for it now (even though I also feel bad saying this--and think maybe I should--because I'm also someone who thinks you should judge things for yourself), but I have watched a few amvs for it... and just based on that (though I admit that that might not be a fair metric to base it on), I do agree with people who think that Evan Walker was miscast (it also might have been direction issues). He just seems too earnest to me? Too trustworthy? And that's sort of a problem, of course, because you needed to have so many moments in the film where you didn't know if you could trust the guy or not. And based on the scenes I've seen, he doesn't seem mysterious/sketchy enough. He also doesn't give off the vibes where Cassie was like, "I'm going to kill Evan Walker!" because he was pissing her off so much. IDK. -shrugs-

[hazmatmaid]

A simplification:

Level 1-upper 2/lower 3: "yeah i can see that happening."

Level 4: "where did that even come from? that doesn't make any goddamn sense/he would not say that."

it came to my realization that 99% of my fandom related headaches would be cured if everyone understood this

[edwardshundredyearoldspunk]

I'm tired of the way we coddle "escapist" media. we act like, by virtue of being a simpler world, it shouldn't be held to the standards that more apparently complex stories are held to. and then, when the creator dares make your "comfort escapist show" have greater emotional stakes people have the audacity to say it's out of character

[sakuravalelp]

The Dance Academy isn't a gang- DC X DP Prompt

Inspired by this prompt

Clockwork suggests to Danny, who's been the king of the infinite realms for 6 years now, that he should take sometime off in a mortal realm. He doesn't feel like going back to his own dimension (you choose the reason), so Clockwork suggest another dimension where he thinks Danny might have fun.

Danny investigates the dimension, and finds it is a dimension where some humans, who are called meta-humans, develop powers, mostly during their childhood. Danny knows how tiring and alienating it is to grow with powers that one have to hide. He wishes to give this kids a safe space to experiment with their powers, but not as a weapon, just as part of themself.

He chooses to create a dance academy, because dancing is something in which you use your body and express yourself. It would be an excellent way to encourage this kids to use their powers while enjoying themself. He decides to open the dance academy in Gotham, were it seems metas may feel more pressure to keep themself hidden. With his ability to see and feel the differences in soul it's easy to identify metas, so he starts scouting kids for the academy.

Of course convincing the kids that it's just a a dance academy that wants to create a save space for metas, instead is of a trafficking ring, is difficult. But once he gets the first couple kids in, slowly more come too.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-

Bruce is worried about the new possible meta gang that it's forming on Gotham, and sends Duke undercover.

It's hasn't been long since Duke joined the bats, and this is his first official undercover mission. He's excited at the start, feeling proud that he's been trusted with an independent job, but then he finds out that the "gang" it's just a dance academy. He's a little disappointed, thinking that this job is more of a probation thing than anything, since there isn't anything suspicious.

The bats tell him to stay in the dance academy, because maybe the dance thing is just a cover up and they'll reveal their real motives when he's actually accepted in the group. And Duke takes it as them wanting him to have a meta support system. See? He's learning to understand how the bats show love to each other!

Duke finds himself enjoying being in a dance group. It's a lot of fun. Danny it's fantastic, he has a lot of powers and isn't scare to show them. Which makes everyone in the group feel so much safer to use their own.

Danny encourages them to integrate their powers in their dance. It's freeing. Their powers are treated as a normal part of them, and not as this exotic ability that has to be controlled. It's such a safe space that all of them have gotten used to using their powers for day to day stuff when in the dance studio. It all feels so casual because no one bats an eye to it. There's no talk about how they should try to do things "normally," or limit their use of their power.

Danny: "Why would you? That's your normal, and this place is safe for you to just be you."

Duke realizes a bit late that the bats were actually suspicious of the group, and that his placement there wasn't really a probation. He's glad to know he was actually trusted with a job, but, he had really thought that every time they had asked about his day with the group was because they were interested in how he was doing. That they were showing love and interest in him in that evasive ways the bats did, and it kinda suck to know it wasn't the case. It also meant that he had to confront their family in their clear meta-discrimination.

"Would you have been so suspicious if it wasn't a meta group? No. Other than them all being metas there wasn't anything off. No proof of fights, no proof of robberies, no proof of trafficking, nothing.

There's no proof of anything other than a group of teens dancing, and you know that because you checked it out before sending me.

Like, I don't blame you for checking it, I'm not naive, but you were so sure it was a gang, just because they were metas. That's fucked up guys."