#so i understand those perspectives at least

[sirxlla]

You Have a No Kill Rule and They Dont / Vice Versa.

(Request @nesting-dreams)

--------------------------------------------------

Dick: "You know I really wish you wouldn't kill, it goes against everything I have ever agreed with." He had stated this over and over again and you had stated your side. This conversation always went in circles every single time until one or both of you gave up.

"Don't you understand it's wrong to kill?" He pressed relentlessly.

"Don't you understand that it never stopped anyone else in Gotham? Doing this would make sure that those out there can't harm or the innocent people of Gotham. Criminals won't stop killing just because of the fact that you don't want to do it. Meet then were there at, at least then they fear for their life, not a broken nose." You spit words at him like venom. The two of you parted the same way you did every single time with both of you being pissed off at one another.

By the time that bed came you two would crawl up into bed together with no issue like you didnt fight with him at all.

Jason: Before you knew everything about Jason and Gotham as a whole, you would have had these long conversations about exactly why it's wrong to kill people and everything along those lines. Those fights usually ended in screaming matches and someone if not both of you pissed off for several days. You had begged him over and over to just try it your way and for the most part he tried, at least it seemed like it from an outside perspective. If he killed he didn't do it in front of you.

He understood entirely that once you end someone's life or see it done you don't always sleep the best and that's why he never did it in front of you.

Now that he had let you in and you'd learned everything about Gotham, saw how horrible and rotten it was your opinion changed. You saw just exactly the type of people that deserved death and exactly what was the source for Jason's bloodlust.

Bruce: "Bruce, don't even start with that bullshit because if it was Alfred that would have killed them you would have had no issue with it and I know your track record with women and 99% of them kill people so I don't want to hear it because you're being hypocritical. I have no choice and if I didn't do it I would be dead now."

His face turned to stone that's definitely not something he wanted to hear. He often had a bad time being hypocritical and not understanding the entirety of what exactly was life and death considering he forgot you weren't him and you weren't some sort of badass that could take on whoever the fuck you needed to.

Even though the man was small that you had to end, he had a gun to your head and you had no choice but to shoot him through your bag.

Tim: He never wanted to fight about it but it was something that you definitely didn't agree upon. Tim was always kind and soft spoken when he tried to tell you not to do it. Tim was probably the most understanding on why you had such a similar view to Jason and Damian.

Tim had high hopes that there was always a redemption for a criminal. He had more hope than his father that maybe a criminal could change their ways. He saw cases like Harley Quinn and Azrael whom had turned corners and he hoped they's set examples for others.

Tim was always an optimist, he was so soft spoken about it. It was because of that that you eventually came out around to his ways, if he were so adamant and pushy about it you would have stuck to your guns but now you saw the kinder brighter side and how good some of these people could be if given the right opportunities.

Damian: It's something that always left a bad taste in your mouth, how Damian did it so easily without losing a hair of sleep but you knew how he was. He definitely tried to be less prideful in his kills while you were around cause its just something that you hated. In your mind a body's lifeforce was sacred, this is why you wouldnt even remotely begin to hold Damian's sword even if he asked you to hand it to him.

"It's such a sword." He would say as if the blade wasnt essentially stained with the blood of what felt like thousands. Even though it was something that puts such a bad taste in your mouth you were never going to tell him not to do it. It was just the way he was raised but you also didnt bother because the blood was on his hands, not yours.

The only thing that you had asked him to do in regards to that sword? To not bring it into the bedroom where the both of you slept because somehow in someway everytime he did, you had the worst nightmares and sleep paralysis.

(Send me some prompts if you'd like)

Masterlist

[utilitycaster]

Inspired actually by me nonstop thinking about the Young Witch Solving The Disappearance Of Her Neighbor's Cat In The Alps tweet since last night and a number of other unrelated posts I have been thinking about the concept of maturity in media, because I think there's a lot of different dimensions to that. It's a series of spectra, rather than a binary, and if you use the terms "mature" or "immature" you can quickly realize that a lot of our societal metrics for what's adult-appropriate vs. child appropriate are very skewed in specific and in my opinion untrue and unhelpful directions. This could honestly be a 10 page essay and I may very well write that when I'm on break but just to give you my outline here:

Stimulation - is it grabbing your attention with bright lights and loud sounds and fast action, or do you have to actively focus? Action films can be just as "jangly keys" as children's animation despite being an "adult" work, whereas something like Mad Men can have vivid colors but would bore a child to tears in terms of pace and action. However, and this will be an ongoing theme, you can have a very choppy, fast-paced narrative that is complex and a very slow and dull one that is incredibly simple and childish.

"Ratings" Subject Matter: Sex/Violence/Profanity. This is the one I think is most misleading, because you can have an incredibly puerile R-rated film, and you can have an immensely complex narrative without any of the above. [note: I have zero patience for people who act like sex and violence are inherently unnecessary wastes of time; they are merely things within a narrative that can be executed well or poorly, but it is true that something can have a simple plot and constant bright lights and stimulation and essentially be big old jingling mobile for infants but there's a sex scene in it so it's Adult Now. Unfortunately a lot of people are like "and this is why YA is inherently better" which we shall see is not the case.]

Other Difficult Subject Matter (I don't have a good name for it, but to give examples, death, racism, genocide, abuse, serious or chronic illness, etc). This one is tricky because all of the above are topics present in works for quite young children, because they can experience all the above or have someone close to them experience them, and fiction is a powerful teaching tool. Obviously the nature of how this is presented varies, and later points will cover it, but while in my opinion the simple presence of these topics says nothing about the work's level of maturity on its own I'm including it because you do get people who think that children should be shielded from all the above and would consider the mere inclusion of those topics as inappropriate. They're wrong, but it's definitely an axis of judgement/categorization that exists.

Adult-level processing of information (probably a misnomer in that teens can do this but like, teens read adult books all the time, and as Tumblr has shown us, many adults cannot do this): does the narrative require you be able to pick up on subtext? Do you need to understand what is relevant to the story and what isn't? Do you need to be comfortable with or at least able to tolerate not knowing entirely what is going on right away? Do you need to have a sense of irony? Is there an unreliable narrator?

Adult-level processing of moral complexity (in my limited, not a parent or educator experience, I honestly think teens do better with the information processing than this, ie, this is one of the last things to develop; also Tumblr is even worse): does the narrative require you accept that sometimes things are unfair and will never be fair? Do you need to accept a story in which the Quote Unquote Bad Guys walk free without real consequence? Do you need to accept a story in which no one's actions are entirely defensible or in which no choices are easy and clean and harmless? Do you need to attempt to understand an alien perspective? Is there senseless tragedy? This incidentally is how you separate out the children's books from the adult books on topics like illness or catastrophic events; a lot of children's books end with a message of "it's hard and sad, but it will be okay eventually" and focus on very relatable POV characters which is understandable! But, to use an example as someone who went to a Jewish school with a robust Holocaust education, elementary schoolers read Number the Stars in which the (entirely fictional) Jewish family escapes to Sweden; middle schoolers read Night in which Wiesel's (real) father dies painfully in front of him.

None of this is to say that escapism/cozy fiction/whatever you want to call it is bad - I am not interested in a diet entirely made of thorny moral quandaries and no happy endings. I enjoy a stupid turn off your brain action movie, or a fluffy romantasy. But I do think that a demand that every ending be happy and that Justice Be Served in every story is no less immature than saying "ew, there's kissing in this???"

[dontcallpanic]

I love these points SO, So much! I was sat here going yes, yes, exactly! Yes!

Poor Derek not knowing how to get a house or a safe space - that really got me actually and I was wondering if it was also linked to not wanting to have too many good things. So if he has a house or a space he likes, when he inevitably looses it (in his mind) that feels so much worse than somewhere he doesn't care about so much being destroyed. Imagine getting to the point where he restored the Hale House and then it got torn down again... Ffffddd

Also Fuji your point about him having to take out Peter to protect Scott makes so much sense! But also oh god imagine having to be in that position where you have to kill your last remaining family member (from his perspective) to protect this guy that keeps getting you arrested and blaming you for literally everything! I was also wondering about it becoming one of those goals you get fixated on. Like yeah if I can only just get through X or if I can just get more powerful, if I can get stronger, if I can get better, then I can fix it all, then the problem will go away, then I can protect everyone.

Oh also - did you know there are more F's to the trauma response list - some of which I think also fit Derek. They're Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fuck, Friend and Flop. It's to take into account how we often have to play nice, or fuck or play along with perpetrators just to survive. To account for the fact that behaviour can externally look like one thing but internally the motivations are /extremely/ different. And again we don't get a choice in what our brain will select. It's just whatever it decides is our best chance of survival. And again it's definitely not going to look well adjusted, because it's not exactly a well adjusted situation. It's already deeply fucked up.

Oh and Derek having to show that he's useful just to be allowed to exist always breaks my heart. You put this SO Well. Being useful I would guess feels safe to him. You can also see him doing the needing people/pack but being so terrified of loosing them or hurting them that he pushes them away first pattern that you would totally do if you had been through all that. And then throws his own body and life around like some kind of wrecking ball because neither things are of high value in his mind.

Also your line about pleading with Stiles and Scott to stay alive by saying how useful he is totally broke me. You're spot on with that and it's just tragic.

I'm genuinely staggered by the lack of empathy and understanding but I was also thinking about what Pdxtrent said about him being one of the best representations of trauma in media (and I totally agree) and in a really awful way it kind of makes sense that he wouldn't get a lot of empathy or sympathy because real life survivors get treated this way all the time too. His response feels so True to life, it garners a true to life response from many people. Especially because he doesn't play the victim (and I love that for him) most people/survivors dont - actually! Again, you can't always tell motivations just by watching someone's outward behaviour - although you can obviously get a good idea, but there's also a whole internal world driving that behaviour that you can't see. I feel that this is where Derek is at - and at least past of the reason why he's deeply misunderstood.

There's also something there about the extreme expectations placed on young adults but that might be for another time!

Derek Hale has PTSD. I think people tend to forget that he wasn't an ass for the hell of it. He put up a rough asshole front to protect himself. He has the ugly symptoms of PTSD. Does it excuse some of his actions? No. But he does deserve some understanding and empathy.

No matter what age you see him as, he just isn't a 'grown ass man'. He had no idea how to take care of himself. He was still mentally that 15 year old who lost everything and was traumatized beyond reason.

Derek continuously kept being kicked while he was down. The poor guy couldn't catch a break. Like have a heart y'all. He was never a villain. An antagonist at one point, yes. Villain, no.

Trauma literally rewires your brain, and that poor kid got enough trauma before the first episode. Derek needed lots of therapy, he needed friends, and he needed a pack.

Derek could literally trust no one. Not because he didn't want to, but because he couldn't. He tried his best with what he had, which wasn't much, and he fucked up at times. But he kept trying to do and be better.

[fakeusernamelol]

Sorry I'm obsessed with bad ending teen dad stancest--

When Ford leaves home for college he takes Stan with him, Stan thinks it's fine, it's not their boat but it's basically what he used to wants, they're out of jersey and they're okay. Fiddleford asks him what he wants out of life sometimes but that question's made him sick since he was twelve and realized he wasn't smart enough to be much more than a housewife for whatever man he ended up with. Instead he tells Fiddleford he's gonna be a pirate, because it makes him laugh. Then Ford wants to go to Gravity Falls, and Stan's back to being alone with him. By the time they're 27 he's stopped trying to keep his hair short, he makes for a piss poor Ma as far as hes concerned but the twins aren't old enough to get that yet. Bill gets mad at Ford so Ford gets mad at Stan, and Stan sleeps on the floor next to the kids' beds because Ford's better than their father, he won't lay a hand on him in front of the kids, and Stan uses it because hes a conniving coward with a distant look in his eyes that their own Ma used to have.

But then the portal, it drives Fiddleford insane, Fiddleford tells him Ford is dangerous, that he's going to kill them. And Stan didn't believe it until he spent a night barricading a door covered in height marks and crayon while Bill tried to claw his way in and then the next morning when he caught Ford crying in front of the TV, Ford punched him full in the face in front of the twins.

So it was so easy, hitting Ford back for once, shoving him just a little too far and letting the portal take him away, leave Stan with the house and the kids and a new name to inherit and the freedom to cut his hair and get himself the glasses he needed and call himself Stan instead of what Ford called him.

SORRY IF I RAMBLED TOO MUCH IM EATING YOUR DRYWALL I NEED MORE AU--

would that be a win-lost or a win-win?

PLEASE PLEASE DON'T APOLOGISE WHEN YOU ARE GIVING ME EXACTLY WHAT I WANT, I LOVE YOU AND OF COURSE I'M GIVING YOU MORE DEAR ANON you and me are now friends and i don't take no for answer 🤭🤭💖💖💖 Also what a good name for this au, im using it now 😘

(tw: Transphobia, Misogyny, Abuse, a lot of implied noncon yadda yadda you already know where's this going 🤷)

Stanley needed something to hold on to try to survive this new life, it's not exactly what he always dreamed but it's not bad, he has ford and that's all he has always needed, isn't it? He can get used to, come on he has always been seen this way he can get through it.

But when he met Fiddleford those thoughts were becoming harder to support again, a new person, new air and new perspective. Sure he wasn't going to tell him all those crazy thoughts he had because that would make ford mad but he can express a little of it, fidds wouldn't ever know that those jokes were actually his dreams but at least he can say them and think a bit of them every once and then to distract a bit from the real life. Maybe... Who knows,maybe one day Ford wouldn't be this harsh with him and he and their kids could still sail the world once he's done with college! Joke's on him, of course they were going to do what ford had in mind and he can't say anything, after all if he's not in the streets is thanks to him so,heh, could be worse. going to miss fidds anyway...

But well, not time for thinking about himself, they are already grown adults and since he's not getting a job the least he can do is be a good as possible mom for their already 10-year-old twins. Ever since they've been in Gravity Falls, Stan can swear that he's seen all kinds of strange creatures but Ford seems delighted with it and only times he doesn't talk to him in a rude tone is when he says something about them so, it's not that scarier as it was the first times. He doesn't quite understand what Ford is actually doing with that information, but after that he goes to the basement and warns him and the kids to stay away from this as possible, and he's going to obey for his own sake.

...At least as much as he can because things are becoming even weirder, he has seen Ford obsess over an investigation before, but this time he seemed to be going genuinely crazy, not all bad tho, at least fidds was back again and having a new face in the place was genuinely a good thing for him, sure he was here for working but anyway stan would try to sneak up on them like bringing them something to drink after a long day of work in the basement, Ford wasn't so harsh when Fiddleford was around so he wasn't so scared to do that and share a few words with a good friend not knowing that ford would make him pay for that later.

« what did I tell you about going down the basement, [ ] ? You have your things upstairs with the kids. »

It was fine, he deserved it. He has never said anything about Ford's abuse, because ever his teenhood he knows he deserves it, He only knows how to screw things. Maybe if he hadn't broken that stupid machine ford would change his mind but he had to fuck it. Yes, he sometimes still daydreams about a world where ford could accept him, a world where ford would hug him often and not hurt him again and maybe, a world where he calls him stanley for once... but time has passed and his hope has faded away, Now he just wishes that thoughts to leave his mind once for all.

Suddenly things get worse. «they could?» it seems to be.

Ok, sleeping in the kids room wasn't so bad, sure the floor was cold and he only had a blanket in order to not die of hypothermia but at least he had his kids near him and that was fine, ford wouldn't try to make something to him with them near. Now, seeing the eyes of that friend he always thought of like a kind of safe place full of fear and warning him of such an unthinkable danger for him what's indeed something he would never forget and fuck shouldn't do it. He thinks he knew what Ford was capable to do, sure he's angry with him ever since and his touch is not the gentlest, but stan didn't think he would go so far as to endanger himself, much less his children... Seems like everything he thinks is really just bullshit, he says to himself while using his body to lock the door of the kids room while hearing those strange creepy laughs and scratches from behind the door.

Ok so things are going to be dangerous now, but the next morning when he sees ford crying with his hands in his face and his legs on the floor he gets second thoughts, something was wrong with ford, he don't get what but maybe he could...

So you know, Stan has endured a lot of things ford has done: the words, the insults, the abuse, the punches, the constant contempt and more but punching him in front of their kids was enough.

For the first time ever since that night in the bathroom floor stan had enough of ford and didn't even think twice before giving him the punch he has always deserved it. Not punch, punches.

HE was angry, HE was tired, and not even the cries of his little children in the background had made him stop while Ford tried, like the coward he really was, to flee from him when he saw that this time his blows were not saving him.

Funny, stan thought, « I always protected ya' from Crampelter and his herd, no matter what. Ya' we're afraid of givin' them a good punch but what about me, sixer? Are ya' scared of me now? »

Stanley was stupid, but he was stronger, even if ford has always despised him for being born as a woman, HE was stronger than him and for once he wasn't scared of his rejection.

But.. sure he didn't expect what happened next. He has never seen what he and fidds were doing in the basement and now, he knew it even less.

He was angry but fuck he didn't mean that! Why does everything have to be so complicated towards Ford? Fuck!

...On the bright side, those 30 years will serve Stanley well to realize everything that his brother held him back from for years, guess who's the one being welcomed with a punch in the face here. 😗

So, you can say the bad ending au got a good ending? Lol 🙆

[somnolent-scout]

Writing my thoughts here cuz I'm still mentally organizing this idea in my head

The idea: A small scale convention-like event in Seattle mostly about Valve games, sort of an extension of Meet the Mercs.

The main details: A single day event, likely from 11:00am to 8:00pm. Would likely be in the Grand Hyatt Seattle, like the first MtM, but now occupying two halls instead of just the one. One hall would feature 10-15 vendors selling Valve-focused merchandise, though other games are allowed. The other hall would be a stage area for panels, the autograph booths for the TF2 cast, and some table seating.

The financial stuff: Vendor booths would probably be around $75 for 10 x 10, $100 for 10 x 20. Tickets would probably be $50 with one free autograph included, similar to how we did MtM, or a regular admission being $25 or something like that. One Grand Hyatt Seattle hall was about $350 last time, so having two halls would be more costly. Keeping in mind talent cost and Robin's travel costs as well. This would not be cheap.

Marketing: Advertise online via social media, having the VAs and the cosplay community post about it. Hand out flyers about the event at local conventions in the months before the event itself. Probably build a carrd website for the event itself.

Other details: Have lanyards and badges to come with the tickets, featuring artwork made by the community. Possibly sell merchandise with the event logo as well? Although, most of that would rely on making back the production costs instead of contributing to the cost of the event itself. Panel space would be limited, but I'd rather give outsiders an opportunity to submit and possibly present a panel rather than have all the panels be solely presented by others working the show. We would need a lot of volunteers, and we would need to do interviews with them to make sure they're qualified.

I don't think this would be an annual con either. This would be a one and done event. I don't really see the need to do this annually since it's just a tiny little event.

[creature-once-removed]

every time I re read GtN I am caught off guard by how serious it is

Like, Gideon spends the first few pages checking everywhere for possibilities for Harrow's skeletons to ambush her. And then she nonchalantly tells Aiglamene that Harrow would do literally anything to hurt her.

You don't really notice it the first time around because of the lighthearted way it's written, but when you know the context for all of it, it becomes uncomfortably clear how intense and dangerous the situation is that Gideon tries so thoroughly to avoid here.

[abrahamvanhelsings]

"goodsir is neoliberalism bc he tried to kill those guys blah blah blah" they kidnapped him and then they made him cut up men to be consumed as an act of control and pure humiliation by threatening to kill probably the last man he still liked in that party, forcing him to be complicit in an act he is viciously against, and to be complicit in the survival of the very men who betrayed the whole expedition and who are using him like a tool. and then the guy he's trying to protect comes up to him to sob and monologue at him about cannibalism and religion and acts of survival and belief as some kind of justification for the fact that he's an absolute pussy ass bitch who'd rather lie down and take it than stand up in the face of acts and circumstances he finds abhorrent. and goodsir was supposed to not be a cunt abt that? lol

[orcelito]

Worst thing about having taken business classes is that I see people complain about bullshit companies are pulling and a part of my brain goes "Oh, that's an effective tactic for cost reduction" or something around those lines. And then the part of my brain that is Not a wannabe businessman is just like "Bro."

[imaginarypasta]

i’ve been trying to get through hoh for literally like a week now but it’s so hard bc the way my fave nico is treated is absolutely ABYSMAL and i know it only gets worse

[dr3ambl0g]

.

[the-kipsabian]

.

[accioepiphany]

Carmy in episode 9 being all: actually she is my PEACE. Has always been! ! !

Sure Jan

The bear trying to gaslight me into believing Claire and Carmy’s relationship was all sunshine by putting some never seen before flashbacks where he is suddenly smiling all the time… when the only thing we see season 2 is him miserable and worried and bathed in blue light everytime he is with or thinks about Claire, to the point he even had a panic attack about it????

[lgbtlunaverse]

I've seen a good number of people ask a question along the lines of "why do characters like Falin and hate Laios when they're so similar?" and i've also seen good analysis on the differences in how the touden siblings carry themselves that would, despite their shared traits, make a person gravitate to one more than the other.

But i feel like we've overseen one very central thing here.

People don't like Falin

Like... the average person in dungeon meshi doesn't like Falin. She was deeply ostrasized by her home village, in magic school she had zero friends before Marcille and the others generally saw her as strange and a bit offputting.

Characters like Namari and Chilchuck like her well enough but not necessarily more than any other member of their party, including Laios. Neither Kabru nor his party think much of her. The canaries don't give a fuck about her. Toshiro's retainers don't see her as anything else than the weird foreign girl their boss has a crush on.

The reason we think everyone loves Falin is because, despite all the indifferent side characters, the 2 most important and central characters of the story are Laios and Marcille. Who are NOT representative of the average attitudes to Falin! But necromancy georg number 1 and 2 are our main eyes into the story and they love Falin so much that it colours our perspective of the whole world.

The only side character who qualifies as liking Falin and not Laios is Toshiro (at least at first, as he ends the story on much better terms with Laios) and that says a lot about his character, with him drifting to the quiet Falin precisely because of her oddness but being both uncomfortable with and deeply jealous of Laios' much more open expression of that oddness. Because he's a repressed guy from a culture where etiquette is incredibly important.

But like I said, that's a specific aspect of him, not to the world at large.

Because there's also people that click more with laios than with Falin.

Kabru, for one, who is initially distrustful of laios but clearly also deeply fascinated by him and drawn to him.

Minor spoilers, and you don't have to read too deeply into this, because I don't think Kabru particularly dislikes Falin or anything. But it's interesting that when he talks about his distrust of the toudens in ch.32 he's talking about them both. But his big friendship declaration in chapter 76 is aimed squarely at Laios, he doesn't say "you and your sister" he says "you"

And Senshi!! He instantly clicks with Laios, well before he does so with anyone else in the party– who he also becomes friends with, it just takes a bit longer– specifically because they bond over their shared special interest in monsters!! Senshi is kind towards Falin and cares for her wellbeing, but he also... doesn't know her. The reason he is even here, helping to save her, is because he and Laios bonded over monsters and he wants to help his new friends out!

Of course, the theme of neurodivergent isolation is very present in Laios' story. I'm not denying that. He does turn people off, without meaning to and unable to fully understand why! But so does Falin. And just like there are people who like her despite of or even because of those traits, there are people who do the same with him.

In conclusion: "Average person loves Falin and hates Laios" factoid actually statistical error. Average person is neutral on both Falin and Laios. Georcille, Laiorg and Geoshiro, who live in the dungeon and think over 10,000 Falin-loving thoughts a day, are statistical outliers adn should not have been counted.

[sneefsnorf]

OH HEY!! do you have final thoguhts on ultrakill and gabriel and the v's and everything :333333 <- my agenda

machine. ive spent my life loved and revered by my people and my church. i trusted my institution and my Father because i never had a reason not to, machine. the council and the people had such high expectations of me and i always rose to meet them. my achievements were many. everything was perfect. and then you took it all from me, machine. i failed ONCE. i wasnt what the church wanted me to be exactly and they tore their love away from me. its not fair. not in the slightest. ive been thinking a lot. ive been reflecting on the churches and the institutions of mankind. so many of them have warped the word of the Father into whatever will give them the most power. they use his teachings to break down and bully those they hate. they grind them into the ground and humiliate them as much as they can, not just for their own self-gain, but for the sake of hatred. this is what the council has done to me, machine, and now i have joined your ranks. all their love for me revoked as soon as i couldnt be what they wanted, thrown from the gates of heaven like the queers and the freaks. i've joined your ranks, machine. i'm less than a person now. and i am filled with so much rage.

anyways thanks for driving me to the abortion clinic machine i really appreciate it

[ambrosiagourmet]

I've been thinking about Laios' succubus lately. Mulling it over a bit.

Because I've seen these pages brought up a fair bit, but almost entirely in the context of shipping (on all sides, really). And I really want to understand what they are doing for the story beyond that.

When I went back to reread the scene and section, a few things caught my interest: the way Laios responds to both forms of his succubus, the themes of the volume the chapter is found in, and the other events of the chapter itself.

So let's dive into those three things, and what I think they say about the succubus scene's purpose.

Laios is never fully frozen by the succubus

So. If you compare Marcille and Chilchuck's reactions...

to Laios':

-

There is a difference. Sure, the basics may look the same once it turns into Scylla Marcille, but even then, it functions differently.

Chilchuck and Marcille are completely frozen once they catch sight of their succubus. Izutsumi, as well, isn't able to look away, and completely freezes up once her 'mom' starts talking to her. As Chilchuck describes, "just looking at them makes you unable to move."

And yet, Scylla Marcille has to actively convince Laios to comply. He even looks away from her at one point!

Laios accepts this succubus, but he is never actually helpless to it in the same way. Taken in? Convinced? Sure, at least enough to let things happen that he probably should question more than he does. But magically compelled? Not really. Not the same way as everyone else is. So that's interesting. But let's move on for now.

2. Volume 9 is all about drive and desire

I don't often look at chapters within the context of the volume they are included in, but I think there's some really fun things to be found with that perspective in mind.

For one, volume 9 starts with an exploration of what desire brought Laios to the dungeon:

And ends with a question of what desire brought Laios to the dungeon:

It's also very concerned in general with questions of why people do what they do. Why they are in the dungeon, why they are with the people they are with, why they stay, what they fight for.

In addition to Laios, we see it with Marcille...

Izutsumi

Kabru

and Mithrun

Hell, we even get it for the demon!

It's certainly not the only volume concerned with desires and motives, but it is particularly focused on these ideas.

The succubus scene fits quite well into the ongoing question about desires, especially Laios' desires. It is even placed at an interesting spot within the volume. The volume is six chapters long, and the scene takes place at the start of the 4th chapter. It's almost smack-dab in the middle.

With all this in mind, it is interesting that, with both versions of the succubus Marcille, it's not totally clear which parts of her Laios is rejecting.

The first version of Marcille looks human, but Laios attacks when he identifies her as a monster. The second Marcille looks like a monster, but he seems to believe that she is the real (human)(ish) person that he knows. So is he rejecting the monster at first, and then accepting the person? Or is he rejecting humanity and only interested in the monstrous?

Something to consider as we look at the next point...

3. the rest of the chapter is a seduction, too

This is one of those things that might not be apparent on a first reading, but is crystal clear on a revisit. We see the succubus try and charm Laios over 7 pages, and then see the Winged Lion do the same thing for the next 19.

Much like the succubus, it offers the mingling of monsters and humans. Much like the succubus, it offers belonging.

(and this is the point where I absolutely must also link this post by fumifooms on the succubus, which has some great ideas on how the scene is informed by Laios' trauma and desire for acceptance!!!)

But, back to the point. The Winged Lion wants to feed on Laios just as much as the succubus did, and it uses similar strategies to try and make that happen. Though this chapter isn't really the turning point for the next Lord of the Dungeon (it is Marcille who will, eventually, become the Lion's next victim), it certainly behaves like it is.

Laios is convinced. The succubus gets its meal. By the end of the volume, the reader begins to understand how concerning his desires are. Together, it is all very good at building up that sense of dread and pending disaster, as we see exactly how and why Laios might just fall into the Lion's open arms and bring about the end of the world.

-

So that's the three things I noticed. But there's still something I want to touch on by looking at the way these observations overlap, and what they reveal, together.

As I said, by the end of the volume, you can feel the tension growing. Just as Kabru and Mithrun do, you look back for an answer to the questions that have been built, chapter by chapter: why is Laios here? Where will his loyalties fall? This chapter, and scene, seem to prove the inevitable truth: he will choose the monster, of course. He will choose the seductive, easy power of the Winged Lion.

But the details of what actually happens tell different story: one in which the Lion is wrong.

First, as a reminder - even in Scylla Marcille mode, the succubus never fully entrances Laios. It convinces him, but it doesn't have him completely under its thrall.

Similarly, in the dream, the Lion does convince Laios to embrace the world he is offering. But even within that dream, Laios continues to ask questions that will be vital to him later. It is because of those questions that Laios comes to a new understanding about Thistle.

And it's this realization that he cites later as part of his reason for refusing the Lion's offer.

He is thinking through things the entire time, just like he continues to question the succubus even after it turns into Scylla Marcille.

Laios also expresses an interesting reason for why he wants to see the future of this world. He's not just invested because it would mean people liking what he likes, or him getting to spend time with monsters. The thought that comes immediately before his acceptance is about what he wants for monsters and people.

I don't think it's a coincidence that this statement - "we're living beings that share the same world, but all we can do is keep killing each other" - can apply to the various humans races just as much as it does to humans and monsters. The thing he is thinking about here isn't just a matter of his personal daydreams. It's an idea that underpins every conflict in the story.

Laios caring about how people as well as monsters in this manner is something that the Lion gets wrong every time. Even at the end, he still frames Laios' desires entirely around hating people and loving monsters.

The Lion has heard him express an opinion about the future of the world! It happened right there in the dream, right in front of him! He just didn't take it seriously, and didn't view it through any lens other than "Laios likes monsters more".

He's convinced that he understands how to get to Laios. Maybe the Lion can't truly see everything, or maybe his vision into everyone's deepest desires has made it hard for him to realize how much choice still matters. That people can, and do, choose which desires to act on, and how to act on them.

Whatever the case, he's wrong about Laios, and the story shows us this over and over again.

After all, look at how the succubus interaction plays out:

A monster uses Marcille to appeal to Laios...

He realizes that something about the situation is wrong, and rejects her.

It changes strategies, and makes new offer: to turn him into a monster.

It also assures him that his friends are, or will be, taken care of.

He accepts. Or rather, allows the monster to have its way with him.

But Laios is not as helpless as he initially appears, and what the Lion thinks is a successful seduction also contains the seed of an idea that will allow Laios to later resist him.

We even get to see Izutsumi playing a similar role in both instances, as the one person fully able to take action in the face to the illusion.

The story lays out what is going happen, and then explicitly tells us that the demon and the succubus are thematically related.

The chapter performs a great sleight of hand here - everything about it seems to indicate that Laios is doomed give in to the option to have his deepest desires realized. But if you look closer, it also contains the evidence that he won't. There's a lot more going on for him.

Yes, he still falls for obvious tricks. He is still extremely into monsters, and he still doesn't feel like he fits in with other people. He may, deep down, crave to surrender to the monstrous - to let it absorb him. But he questions more than he seems to. He considers more than people realize. He cares so much more than anyone gives him credit for.

And I think this is part of why we see the succubus called back to so many times, especially with the wolf head addition to his Monster Form, which he specifically added due to his encounter with the Scylla Marcille.

This all stays with Laios. It doesn't just foreshadow the path of the story, it is fundamental to how and why he walks that path. It's not about him choosing monsters, and it's not about him choosing people. It's about how he considers both, and cares about both.

And it's about the forces that think they already know his answer. Mithrun and Kabru. The Winged Lion. The succubus.

It's about how they are wrong.

[thewritetofreespeech]

Flourish

pairing: Aemond Targaryen x Reader

summary: Aemond had not been joking when he said they would work on another child after their first was born. Aemond never joked. [ part ii of this work ]

tags: heterosexual sex (m/f), fingering, breeding kink, mentions of past pregnancy, use of High Valyrian, Aemond so in love with his wife that he might fall over.

words: 2K Ao3

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The fire was warm as it crackled in the hearth. Staying off the coming chill of the cooler months settling in upon them.

Aemond stared into the hypnotic flames. His wine from dinner at his left while his wife sat in her twin seat at his right, wrestling with the babe in her arms. “Stop fighting little one.” She whispered under her breath at their child. To which Aemond had to scoff quietly as his cheeks raised in a smirk. You might as well tell a bird not to fly, if it was one of his children.

His beloved wife had given him the child he had asked for. A beautiful, strong, silver-haired paragon. With her mother’s eyes instead of his own, but no less the perfect Targaryen jewel. They named her Amena, after much debate of naming her Alyssa or Alysanne after his grandmothers. Truly they had considered it but, in the end, Aemond wanted his children to be their own person for as much as they could. So much of their lives would not be their own; their duties, their battles, their matches. Let them at least have their names.

The princess eventually settled and suckled at her mother’s breast for a time before a nurse came in to take her to the nursery. Though the Keep kept some of the finest wet nurses in all Seven Kingdoms, his wife insisted on giving their child her first & last feedings every day. No exceptions. He knew she would make an excellent mother, even before their child had been born.

The nurse gathered the babe from his wife’s arms, kneeling down to let her kiss Amena’s soft crown, before she came over to Aemond and did the same. “Sleep well, riñītsos.” He whispered to her, before she was carried away and the two of them were left alone.

His wife sighed heavily once the door closed. Slouching and sliding down into her chair in a very relaxed, but undignified, manner. “So, what shall we do for the rest of our night husband?”

“I want another child.”

Understandably, his wife was surprised. It was not the response one would often expect to hear when asking how they should spend the evening before bed. Cards. Reading. Surely not perpetuating a dynasty. “Did I not just give you that one?”

Aemond chuckled as she pointed towards the door where the nurse had disappeared through. “Yes. You did. But I would like us to have another.”

“Really? And what brought on this sudden change in perspective?”

He doesn’t know if he should tell her that it was not a ‘sudden’ change in perspective. Since that night they conceived Amena, Aemond’s goal had been to fill his wife and their wing of the castle with children. He just didn’t realize how persistent the urge would be once they had one.

“I thought you wanted Amena to have siblings.”

“I do,” she agreed, which was a good start, “but I did not think you meant now. Perhaps when they are older. I just got my body back.”

His eye roamed over his wife’s figure. Back nearly to where it had been before and still beautiful, but he would be lying if he said he had not been thoroughly attracted to her those nine months she had been pregnant. Seeing her swell heavy with his child. Watching her body change. Her breasts grow heavy. It almost set Aemond to drool.

“I thought you said you liked being pregnant.” He reminded her, as he stood up and knelt in front of her chair. The heat from the fire on his back almost as hot as his gaze fixed on her.

He knew that pregnancy wasn’t easy. Seeing his mother, his sister, and now his own wife go through it, he was aware it was not the tranquil beauty & reverence people made it out to be. But he did not think his wife despised it. She commented often on how she loved carrying their child, even amidst the complaints.

“Well, it…was an experience…I did not hate it.” He could see her waver as he took her hand in his. Good. Aemond did not think of himself as the clever charmer, full of charisma, like his brother was, but he was not without his own Targaryen silver tongue.

“Do you not want to give Amena a brother?”

“Is that what this is about?” Aemond stopped kissing her fingers at the sharp shift in her tone and looked up at her. “You don’t want another child. You want a son?” His silver tongue might not be as polished as he thought.

When she had been pregnant, she had asked him what he was hoping for and Aemond said he did not care. Which had been true. Sons carry a man’s name, but when you have the name ‘Targaryen’ the point was moot. And, as an avid learner of history, he knew that there were some Targaryen women that carried the name higher & finer than some of the men. If Amena had been male, he would have rejoiced all the same. But clearly now his wife was thinking that maybe he had hoped for a son and been disappointed. That they could try again and ‘get it right’. That was not what he meant.

“No. I have no more of a wish for a son than daughter. We could have 15 princesses, it would not bother me.”

“15??” His wife repeated with a laugh. Her concern and ire waning quickly. “I am not giving you 15 children, of any variety.”

“But you’ll give me another one, eh?”

Aemond lifted up on his knees. Back to seducing his wife as he leaned in close to her. His lips brushed against hers softly, before they traveled down her jaw to her neck. His wife sighed in his ear. Sinking further into her chair as she tilted her head back. Relaxed and pliable under his touch.

He continued to kiss her while his hands moved to undo the lacings in the front of her evening gown. A sharp gasp came to his ear, followed by a moan, as his cool hands slithered in to touch her breast. They were sensitive and tender. She had told him as much. The newfound weight of them in his hands from what they had been before made him moan as well and a shiver raced down her spine when he pulled the gown down to expose them fully.

“Aemond….” She sighed out as he kissed along the edge of her breast. Imagining another babe of silver at her left since Amena seemed to favor her right.

“Let us to bed, issa jorrāelagon.”

His wife nodded eagerly and Aemond rolled up to his feet with all the grace his training allowed him, before he offered her his hand. She of course took it, and he pulled her to her feet and against him. Holding her there for a moment to look down at her before he gave her another kiss on the lips and led them to bed.

As they were already in their evening clothes, the matter of getting undressed was easy. Aemond laid his wife on the bed and was quick to catch her arm before it moved to cover herself. She had become shy about her body and being naked in front of him since giving birth. A trend he hoped would pass. He certainly had not given her any indication that he did not still find her desirable. His hard cock stroked against the interior of her thigh, just in case she needed further encouragement.

She moaned quietly as his member brushed against her soft skin, then leaned up to kiss him. Aemond is happy to meet her. Her lips are soft as well. He always thought that. Everything about her was soft in comparison to his hard lines and, well, everything. It was why they were perfect together. Why the world needed more of their two halves in one whole, to make it better & perfect as well.

“Open for me.” He told his wife as his fingers brushed against her thigh as well to spread them that little bit further to give him entry.

She does, and his fingers slid in to toy with her already damp sex. “See. You may lie, issa jorrāelagon, but this part of you cannot. You want me to put another babe in you, don’t you?”

“Aemond…” Her voice sighed out his name as her head tipped back whilst his fingers pressed in.

“You want another Targaryen fire in your belly, yes?”

“I just want you inside me, Aemond.” She insisted and he smirked.

“I will be. And I will be every night until we make a new scion, if you’ll have me.” His thumb brushed over her clit. Swollen and beaded out as his fingers continue to thrust inside her. His pretty wife bowed her back. Called his name and begged him to enter her. “Tell me true, wife.” He whispered in her ear as she was nearly close to crying with want. “Do you want me to fill you up with my seed and plant a new babe in your womb?”

“Yes!” She finally admitted. “Yes Aemond, I do! I want another babe. To give that to you. I want you to fuck another child into me like you did before! Please, please, give it to me Aemond!”

The prince gripped his wife’s hair and pulled her in for a hard kiss. A reward for her honesty. As he was doing that, he pulled his fingers from her cunt and lined his cock up to refill it. Sheathing all of him in her warmth in just a single thrust. “Hells Aemond!”

He gave her but a moment to adjust before he started thrusting into her. Those beautiful, full breasts of hers bouncing obscenely in front of him. His eye roaming down to her again flat stomach and imagining it full again, before traveling lower to where there sexes meet and watched his cock thrust hard to put a child into her.

“A-A-Aemond!” His wife cried out. Voice stammered by his thrusts. Hands clinging to the bedding as her legs wrapped around him.

“Not going to let me go, are you issa jorrāelagon.”

“Never.” She told him. With this look in her eyes that shot Aemond right to his soul.

He grabbed hold of her arm and flipped them up while they kissed. Her legs still wrapped around him as she was now seated neatly in his lap as he thrust up. “I love you.”

“I love you too.” The sweet words somehow tainted a little with all the wanton, animal panting between them, but no less meaningful. “Now give me our son.”

Aemond groaned. His back teeth grinding while his wife’s hips were grinding into his lap. He held her still and flush against him as his cock burst forth deep inside. She moaned sweetly against his ear as he filled her. Not letting go until he was sure every drop was inside his wife, then laid her down on the mattress. “Just the once, husband?”

“Do not tempt me, wife.” Aemond warned her. Both remembering the mad frenzy that had been their first bout to conceive. “Did you really mean it?” He asked when they were settled in bed for just sleep now. “Would you really want a son?”

The conversation earlier had led him to believe that she was not interested in one, but then her remark a moment ago made him question. Although Aemond was not fool enough to believe what a person said in the throws of passion anymore than what a person said when they had imbibed.

“Hmm…I have no opinion really.” She confessed. Settling into her spot on the bed between her pillow and his chest. “I know that is what everyone hopes for us. More Targaryen sons.” Aemond hummed once. He wouldn’t patronize his wife by telling her that that wasn’t true. “But, having one of each wouldn’t be so bad.” Aemond looked down at his wife just as she looked up at him. A shared moment between them. “I am not giving you 15 children though.”

Aemond smirked at her quip. “We shall see, now won’t we.”

*****

riñītsos: little one, little child

issa jorrāelagon: my love

Amena (origin, Arabic): meaning trustworthy, loyal, protected. [Not a Targaryen name but sounded pretty close, in my opinion]