#shipper meta

[heatherwentwest]

💖Chenford Fandom History Tour💖

Welcome to the Chenford Exhibit at the National Museum of Fandom History, established in February 2023. We invite you to take a self-guided tour through the five-year evolution of the fandom devoted to shipping The Rookie’s Lucy Chen and Tim Bradford, a.k.a Chenford.

No flash photography, please. Enjoy your visit!

Read more:

[ecoterrorist-katara]

Zutara, romance novels, and the female gaze

Okay so I’ve been thinking about the female gaze a LOT so I checked out a subreddit about romance novels, despite never having read one. I came across this meme (which was initially a Tumblr post and then got posted to Instagram and then to Reddit and I’m now bringing back to Tumblr — Internet telephone, pls never change):

And…what is The Southern Raiders, if not a platonic grovel? Katara’s pain is central to the episode. It’s central to Zuko. Zuko asks Katara what he can do to make up for his betrayal; she demands the impossible. He reads between the lines, cockblocks her brother to get the necessary information, and then waits outside her door overnight (which he also did for Iroh, the one person we know for sure he loves). He basically makes himself a receptacle for her rage, and he holds space for her by coming with her on her revenge quest and carrying their bags and not saying a damn thing about what she should and should not do beyond like…asking her to rest. And obviously the grovel works! She forgives him and then they���re thick as thieves, bantering and fighting and saving each other’s lives, etc.

On a different note, I’ve been told that enemies to lovers is one of the biggest tropes in romance novels, similar to YA lit and fanfic. Here’s something else I found in the romance novel discourse:

And…yeah. In TSR, Katara really does show Zuko her worst self, because she doesn’t feel the need to perform for him. She doesn’t feel the need to perform moral perfection OR cold blooded vengeance. She bloodbends in front of him and he just goes with it. She doesn’t kill Yon Rha and he just goes with it. He doesn’t treat her any differently afterwards. Maybe they talk about it off screen, but I kind of like the idea that they don’t, because Katara doesn’t need to explain anything. And it’s so interesting, because some people in the ATLA fandom have a totally different read on TSR. They think Zuko was encouraging Katara to get revenge (by what, keeping his mouth shut?), and that Aang is the one who acts as her moral compass. I believe that either Bryan or Mike said in the DVD commentary that Aang is the angel on her shoulder the entire time. And this interpretation does make sense if you see it from the male gaze, where Katara as an object of affection is acting in an angry, irrational, threatening way. But if you see it from the female gaze, you recognize that actually it’s probably the most emotionally taxing experience Katara has to go through, and she doesn’t owe it to be nice or perfect to anybody. Katara’s formative trauma literally comes to a head, and she has to make a decision — no, a discovery — about who she is in relation to the tragedy that defines her life and even her identity (as a waterbender, as a parentified child who becomes the mom friend, as a genocide victim), and she’s accompanied by someone who trusts her judgement and validates her feelings.

I’m not saying TSR is explicitly romantically coded, but when it conforms so well to romance novel tropes…is it any wonder that so many people thought “yes this is her man?” And then he takes lightning in the heart for her and reaches for her when he’s literally dying, I will never be normal about that either

[hyperions-light]

screaming and crying and throwing up because Davrin and Lucanis can’t be friends until their fundamental conceptions of who they are and how the world works are destroyed

Davrin the Monster Hunter meets Lucanis, the Demon of Vyrantium, and he sees a Monster. The first thing Davrin says to him is that if Spite takes over he will kill him, and Lucanis responds with more than typical ire for him, because he agrees— he IS the monster (in his own mind) and Davrin has identified what he’s trying to ignore. (Harding also threatens to kill him, but Lucanis never reacts in that way to her).

Davrin conceptualizes himself as a bulwark against the darkness, the grim defender. He IS Weisshaupt, and Weisshaupt cannot fall, but it does. He stabs an Archdemon and does not die, and he doesn’t know why. What is he if not this? He did not protect anyone, he did not save anyone; he did not succeed in preserving anything he valued.

Lucanis has lost everything, but he is still a professional, he is still a Crow, and if he is now a monster he can use that to his advantage. He can control it; he WILL control it. He will go back to work and make things right the way he knows how. But when it’s time to do what he has trained for, he fails. What is he if he cannot even do the thing for which he was made? The only thing he has left?

And then Davrin goes to the Cauldron, and he finds the Gloom Howler, and she was a Person. She was a Warden, and an elf and the keeper of griffons, just like Davrin. Suddenly, she’s not a monster anymore; she’s Isseya, and she’s hurt.

And Lucanis goes to Treviso to kill Zara, and it’s taken from him and he loses control. He has to ask Rook for help, which he has been trying not to do, because he hasn’t confronted the real problem. And in that moment, he loses everything he had left; Illario, because he sees him for what he is, and his cloak of professionalism, because if it had been a job he would have stopped. But her death was not enough, and now he’s not a Crow, and he’s not in control, so what is he?

AND NOW that everything that can be broken has been broken and every bad thing they were afraid of actually happened and the world is ending, NOW they can be friends! Now they can rebuild themselves together ! Because Davrin isn’t ONLY the Monster Hunter, he’s also the man who raises Assan and sings to the halla and talks Isseya down! And Lucanis is not a monster at all. He’s just a man who goes grocery shopping for his friends and cooks special meals for everyone and loves his family no matter how much they hurt him.

Shokra toh ebra! You must struggle with what you are, but you can struggle TOGETHER !!

[theerurishipper]

Tim Drake, for no reason at all:

Dick Grayson, Tim's big brother in every conceivable way for the past several years:

[aprillikesthings]

Ngl, one of my absolute fave bits of popular post-spop-canon headcanons/fanon, is Catra becoming Glimmer's advisor and close friend.

It's one of those "oh, of course" kinds of things. Catra is extremely knowledgeable about the land that was under the Horde's control, far more than Hordak ever was. (He shoved that work off onto Shadow Weaver and then Catra.)

And...admittedly this includes land that became Horde-controlled under Catra's leadership. She still knows a lot about it. Geography, trade routes, that kind of thing.

But also, we know Etheria is, in general, not big on retribution or punishment--that was something only the Horde did. Instead people might be wary of you for a bit but if you prove yourself to have changed for the better, it's all good.

(This is so obviously not limited to Catra--Adora, Scorpia, Shadow Weaver!, Entrapta--they all worked for the Horde at some point, and/or did shitty things, and were all given a chance to be better. Whether SW was actually better is its own essay lol, but the rest of them. Yeah.)

So Glimmer making a public point of having Catra as her advisor would also be a very public way of saying "The past is in the past and we can all work towards a better future together."

[prince-liest]

Saw a post recently that rhetorically asked why authors and show writers leaving character sexuality up to interpretation is disappointing when fifteen years ago getting a statement that things were up to interpretation (as opposed to "Definitely NOT gay, you freaks!") was a blessing, and I make a point of never discoursing on the bird app, but wanted to share some thoughts on the subject here - particularly because Alastor is kind of a hot topic on this subject and I think he actually makes for a great example for my thoughts on this.

Honestly, as someone who did live through the "if you think my characters are gay then you're stupid and should die" era, I think it left me with the perspective that even if there is canon sexuality, then no matter what it is, you're free to then do whatever you want in fandom. People might call you a dick for it if you go about it in certain ways, but you're free to do it.

That said... that's not really what wanting canon confirmation is about. It's about having canon representation, especially for identities that we often don't see representation of. For example: Alastor being aromantic is "up for interpretation," and that specifically feels bad when it's explicitly been framed that way as a cop out to appease shippers (per Viv), especially when in canon you can see he's intended to be aroace based off of how Rosie talks about him.

Yes, things are better now than they were 15 years ago... but standards are higher now, too!

And in particular I think that while in 2008 or so, "It's up to interpretation!" basically meant "Yeah, they might be gay but I can't say it," nowadays the meaning has shifted. I see a lot of people chiming into any mention of aroace Alastor with this attitude of "Um, actually, he's NOT aromantic because it wasn't confirmed by Viv (even though he wasn't confirmed to NOT be aro either)," rather than the spirit of "Oh, yeah, he might be aro, that's a valid interpretation!" It actually feels very similar to seeing people go "Well, X is OBVIOUSLY straight (the default) because he wasn't confirmed to like men!"

...in 2008, haha.

Anyway, fandom always feels to me like a 'do whatever you want' zone, but I think just based off of the sheer volume and depth of genuine and heartfelt reactions people have had to Alastor as a character and his portrayal as aroace... having canon representation and seeing yourself in media you enjoy matters a great deal to many people.

I had a really emotional moment when I read my preorder of House of Hades from the Percy Jackson series back in middle school and realized that Nico di Angelo was an actual gay character in an actual real, physical book that I was holding in my hands, not "just" a headcanon from my nebulously safe online fandom spaces, for the first time ever. Similarly, people have been headcanoning various characters as ace for a long, long time, but to me it's never had the same punch to it as it being official when it comes to those kinds of feelings re: representation.

So leaving that kind of thing "up to interpretation" specifically as an alternative to providing representation to a group of people who rarely sees it is disappointing, but it's not for shipping reasons.

[humming-fly]

Who better to trust with a secret than a known liar?

anyways my apologies to b99 and happy countdown to the magolor bullying simulator release later this month! 

[lieuxtenant]

most kat@@ng shippers annoying as fuck but the most annoying of them are the obtuse ones, and oh boy, there are so many of them

you gonna look me in the eyes (or in this case, at my tumblr’s pfp, almost the same thing) and say there is not a single hint of romance in katara and zuko’s dynamic? no, you can’t! stop lying.

trying to deny the very obvious romantic subtext is so stupid, we all know you don’t really believe that, you can’t be this unaware, the only way the writers could be more obvious about what they were trying to do with those two is if they had put a little momo holding a sign in the corner of every zutara interaction with a text breaking down the meanings of the scene, and there are a lot, just throwing here some ones without really going into it one by one or i would be here all day:

the fact that we have zuko and katara’s main fight in book 1 finale that is also when we learn about tui and la, atlaverse’s version of yin yang

their personal arcs being literally that “in kindness there’s evil and in evil there’s kindness” meme

not only that but they’re basically the catalysts in each other’s arcs (zuko’s in “the crossroads of destiny” and katara’s in “the southern raiders”)

“you rise with the moon, i rise with the sun” (they’re so nasty for this one)

do i really need to extend the “zutara are yin yang” topic? like come on

also tui and la means push and pull, zuko incorporates this waterbending pushing and pulling move he learnt by watching katara to his firebending

blue spirit zuko at book 1: water x painted lady katara at book 3: fire ????? absolute cinema

zutara bonding in a cave designed to resemble the cave of the two lovers (they’re so nasty for this one 2: electric boogaloo)

and wearing the same colors as oma and shu?!!?!! the star-crossed lovers on opposite sides of a war??¿? sounds quite familiar

(edit) because how tf did i forgot to include him willing to die for her in the last episode? directly mirroring the way her own mother sacrificed herself to save katara from the fire nation? and now there’s the fire nation’s prince jumping in front of a lightning for her

katara saving zuko’s life is supposed to be the final step of her healing, she was too young when the fire nation came and she felt helpless she couldn’t help her mother, her arc ends with her not only being able to overthrow azula, therefore putting an end to the fire nation’s tyranny but she was finally able to fell she can protect herself and her loved ones

[kideaternomnom]

I don't ship Zutara that much but M*!k0 shippers who call it "colonizer x colonized" actually annoy me so badly 💀they literally undermine Zuko's whole ass arc and growth just bc they dislike Zutara then reduce him to some idiot colonizer as if he never had literally the best growth in the series. His whole arc is about NOT BECOMING a colonizer. How tf are you going to say that just bc you dislike Zutara when his whole arc is about becoming the opposite of a colonizer and even getting full on episodes of him getting Katara's forgiveness. You're literally taking away all of Zuko's growth, suffering, and development. 💀M*!k0 shippers are actually so dumb like why are you even defending that badly written ship lmao

[stagefoureddiediaz]

I’m away from home without full internet access so I can’t go into a full spiral about this latest buck outfit, but I have thoughts and I have parallels pinging around in my brain like the cards used to do at the end of a game of solitaire on the computer 😂

So here is a very brief meta that I will come back to when I am able! @bewitchedbewilderedbisexual I hope this ties in nicely with my post on buck in navy for you 😎

I’m still super fascinated by the choice of loose fit for Buck, because this outfit is ill fitting as well -the trousers especially, and not in an ‘intentional loose fit’ way - the jeans are too long by about an inch (which is why we see the odd bunch in at the ankle) and they are too loose around the hip and thigh (the section below the waist band). The jacket also doesn’t fit quite right - it’s a little too long in the sleeve and across the shoulder. It’s all very reminiscent of the fit we saw on buck in season 1 and that is super interesting to me considering the number of parallels we have been seeing between Abby and Tommy. This idea that Buck is searching for something - a way to fit in his own skin - something Buck was closest to doing in 2b-the end of s3 - when his clothes fit him the best. We saw the shrinking come into play in s4 and continue through s5 and 6 and then we saw a brief period of well fitting clothes post 7x04 - when he has realised he’s bi - only for them to start to fit poorly again from 7x05 onwards - suggesting that Buck is once more not fully comfortable in his skin and that we’re getting a parallel of his journey through s1 rather than s5/6.

We have buck in a white tee - and we all know what that means - danger ahead for Buck!

We also have the new white trainers - so the scenes this outfit is for will be about Buck and his journey - his new journey as he has new trainers (the old ones were connected to his bi journey - now he’s figured that out, we’re onto the next journey!)

Then we have a navy blue jacket - Buck tends to wear navy in connection with his relationships, most notibly his romantic relationships, but by no means exclusively (he wears navy shorts in connection with key moments in his relationship with Eddie - the fox house dinner in 5x11 and when Chris leaves in 7x10 most notably). All the moments he’s wearing navy blue connect into the breakdown of those relationships - we saw him wearing it a lot with Taylor, especially in scenes where their relationship was in not great places - when nails were being added to the coffin as it were- but we also see him wear navy when his relationship with Eddie falters, and with his parents,even his relationship with Bobby is connected to navy blue (law suit anyone!)

Then there are the khaki trousers - we just don’t see Buck in khaki very often - it’s just not a colour he wears - especially not in trouser form - he is nearly always in black, navy or grey trousers. So this is significant - he wore khaki trousers twice in season 1 - both scenes very much connected with Abby and Buck and Abby’s relationship. The first is imo the most significant - in 1x05 - when he helps Abby look for her mom - the first time they meet in person and Buck essentially commits to trying to date her - to pursuing a ‘grown up’ longer term relationship. That a parental issue is central to this is and the outfit most closely resembles this new one is what I’m most fascinated by. It connects the concept of this new outfit having something related to a parental issue and the fact Buck has th website trainers on means it’s a parental relationship of his not someone else’s that’s the centre of it - the scenes will be about Buck not someone else.

The second scene in s1 is from episode 7 - it’s when Buck and Abby have sex for the first time, but he wears a black tee rather than a white one and this ties it in with the next time we see him in khaki trousers in 2x06 - when he, Chim and Eddie are helping Maddie move into her new appartment - the ‘he’s cute’ ‘you should meet his kid’ scene.

The scene from 2x06 is interesting because it lays the foundation work for Chim and Maddie’s future relationship, at the same time as paralleling Chim and Eddie and Maddie and Buck. Maddie is still technically in a relationship at this point as she is still married to Doug, yet the foundation stones of madney are being laid. In the same vein - Buck is still technically in a relationship with Abby (well he believes he is!) and we see further foundation stones being laid for Buck and Eddie’s relationship. That the show is fairly loudly doing this in parallel is telling!

The only other time we’ve seen buck not wearing blue black or grey trousers is in his coma dream when we had the tan corduroy trousers. And while I think we might have a slight connection there - in that they play into the idea of some kind of internal struggle for buck - I don’t think it’s necessarily relevant here!

I know that the parallel with this outfit of Eddie’s hs already been floated

And it’s totally relevant in my opinion. Eddie setting off for Texas and setting up dealing with/confronting his daddy issues - whilst Eddie has no intention of addressing his issues in Texas he does end up dealing with at least a portion of them - specifically the ones around his dad. We see the outcome of that in season 6 when we are shown the improving relationship between them.

This feels especially relevant after the date night daddy issues scene between Buck and Tommy last season - one that very much felt like a set up for season 8 and buck addressing his parental relationships - something I think may well have been explored in season 7 if Annalise had been available for season 7 - as we would very likely have had Eddie with his queer arc and buck exploring his issues around abandonment and death (more in this in a minute).

There are actually two other Buck costumes which I think are far far more relevant when it comes to the meaning of this new outfit - this one from a flashback in Buck Begins

And this one from outside looking in

Both are white tee/hoodie with a navy jacket! The first is essentially Buck ‘breaking up’ with his parents and the second essentially marks the end of his relationship with Taylor (even if it’s a very long and drawn out end!) - the moment that his unhappiness (even if he’s burying it and not actually able to recognise that he’s unhappy in it) with the reltionship becomes truly apparent to us the audience. (The fact that LAFD bomber along with a hoodie is also worn in the scene when he goes to see Tommy is also key - it parallels the two scenes - placing Tommy in a sort of parallel with Lucy - as a disruptor of the status quo (in not even going to get into the fact that Eddie is key in both of these scenes - that while Lucy is a disruptor of BuckTaylor, she is much more a disruptor of Buck and Eddie!))

Both of these play into an overarching theme with Buck - especially in light of this outfit we’ve also seen for this season

Because this one also matches with an outfit from Buck begins - the one where he is planning to leave with Maddie but she hides and he ends up leaving without her. (I don’t have access to my stills from that episode at the moment but I’ll add it in later on when I do!) the greyish khaki parallelspeaks of Bucks issues around abandonment - the feeling of being abandoned by both his parents and Maddie (remember this is Bucks feelings in that moment - he is a flawed narrator and didn’t have all the facts- it is not the reality that Maddie abandoned him - she was protecting him and herself so we are not hiding her in any way) and him setting out on his adventure that ends up in L.A. and at the 118.

So this new outfit is very likely going to play into that concept - and the two new outfits taken together suggests to me that we are very likely going to see that aspect of Bucks journey explored this season - it’s an aspect of his character that lead to him clinging to first Abby and then Taylor - it’s no mistake that Taylor’s return to the show comes so soon after we see Buck begins - Bucks abandonment issues have been brought back into the spotlight and are raw when she reappears and becomes his girlfriend.

So I’m expecting to be seeing Buck doing a fair chunk of figuring himself out and dealing with his issues around abandonment in this season and in whatever both of these scenes end up looking like/ being about. This will very likely tie into his romantic relationship as much as his parental/familial ones and while I don’t think either outfit marks a BuckTommy break up, I very much expect them to play into that relationship failing - like the ones we saw leading to the ultimate destruction and end of Bucks relationship with Taylor (the dinner at the diaz house scene and then the Buck Lucy kiss scene) specifically.

I’m excited to see how this all plays out!

[bicheetopuff]

I just saw the worst takes about bnha’s ending on Instagram (three days ago now, as of posting this). So, today we’re gonna talk about Izuocha, shonen homoeroticism, and fandom… not in that order though…

I: Fandom

Fandom culture for all media has basically always been a war zone that you have to actively avoid, usually with two defining sides: people who try to enjoy media the way they want to enjoy it, and the people who say that everyone is wrong and attack others who they don’t agree with. There are shades of gray on both sides, but in general this is usually the case. It’s never been “‘alphabet mafia’ vs ‘normal’” or “fanon vs canon” or “right vs wrong”… I almost always see people having fun being attacked unwarranted (I am not saying that people being legitimately problematic shouldn’t be called out, pls don’t get me wrong. I’m talking about innocent fun!). And I’m not just talking about dudebros attacking shippers, I’ve seen a lot of shippers attack non-shippers/other shippers of a different ship, and it’s almost always people just saying “you’re wrong, I’m right, and your take ruins this media piece of media for everyone else.” That being said, I wanna talk about the highlighted parts of these comments, okay? But first I need to explain the video that these comments were on.

It was a video by @/d_rich7 on Instagram, a big anime creator, talking about this tweet:

To summarize the video, he went on to say that he’s not surprised because bnha has the worst shipping community since Naruto and how Horikoshi probably felt forced into not confirming any ships because of “threats and hate mail” that he got from his fandom. I’ll come back to that but first I’ll talk about some of the comments:

“At least, they can say they weren’t the reason for the downfall of their anime.”

I've seen this take from different parts of the fandom, whether it was in regard to ships, todofam, or the villains. Just because the narrative of a story ends up matching the theories of people you disagree with, doesn't mean the story is going through a downfall. Just accept that you were wrong and move on. It is okay to not like certain aspects of the story and it's okay to discuss and criticize it, but pinning the blame on people who just happened to be right, no matter how much you hate it, is not okay.

“People need to stop demanding the literal CREATOR of a series to do things how they want it done…They to learn it’s not their story to tell…”

“…like I don’t get how people who have no impact on the writing of a story get mad because the CREATORS don’t wanna use their personal ideas.”

“…from now on imma blame the fandom for fucking up the anime/manga, we could’ve had a better ending if it wasn’t for them…”

Outside of the context, I actually agree with the sentiment that fans shouldn't feel so entitled that they think they have any control over the media they're consuming. But, the commenters don't realize that they're doing the exact thing that they’re talking about. They're convinced that the queer shipping community is the reason the creator decided not to confirm any relationship and are pissed off that the ship they were rooting for, didn't happen. Why are they exempt from this rule? Because straight ships are supposed to happen and queer ships aren't? Because the boy is supposed to win the girl at the end in order to develop a good shonen? I'll go into the misogynistic implications of that later.

Other than that, I have seen a lot of people on tumblr get mad about other things, like before, regarding to the villains and todofam drama to the point that they started insulting Hori. Like I said, it's okay to be mad. Being mad about something doesn't make you a bad person but it was never our story to tell. Criticism and hate, are two different things and come off very differently.

“MHA’s fandom is filled to the brim with toxic, no shower taking, furry loving, lgbtq idiots…”

Honestly I added this one because he's right. We're here, we're queer, and we're idiots in the best way possible. However, I think this also says the quiet part out loud when it comes to the hatred towards bnha and it's fandom.

Shipping communities in other fandoms don't get anywhere near as harassed as often as the shipping communities in the bnha fandom despite not being much different. The difference is, a lot of us identify as and are recognized as queer and Hori himself even recognized that the LGBT community especially took a liking to his manga. But, in other fandoms, it's only okay to consider queer ships if they're recognized by the cishet audience.

Most people in the aot fandom don't have an issue with eremin because it was something recognized and memed by straight men, even if it was mostly as a joke. The kny fandom doesn't care about inotan because it was also recognized and memed by straight men. Narusasu doesn't get much hate anymore because the straight men of their fandom also started to recognize the characters weird obsession with each other and it became more difficult to ignore the ship since there was literally multiple accidental kiss scenes--one of the few times where the source material actively encourages shipping. I can keep going too.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, non-shonen animes with majority cishet women as their audience, no one bats an eye at their ships either, because there's not enough men in their communities to tell them they should feel ashamed for their fanon content and their words hold no weight… and there’s a lot less queer people in those fandoms. You see the trend, right? It's almost like queer shipping is perfectly okay and mostly accepted as long as the community is either majority cishet men, or those men grant permission/approval for the specific ships or the piece of media wasn’t “meant for men.” Otherwise, it's seen as gross and cringe.

There was one other community that was kind of similar to bnha in a sense that it was mostly consumed by queer people and cishet men, where there was a lot of discourse on whether the two main characters were queer or not… which is the Buddy Daddies fandom. When the show was airing, those two sides that I talked about earlier were pretty apparent, with people having heated arguments about whether there were queer undertones or not. The cishet men of the fandom didn't give their approval to ship Rei and Kazuki, so it became an issue. Same with JJK now, more so with itafushi though. SatoSugu was given a somewhat stamp of approval but itafushi is still seen as taboo.

However, for some reason, every queer ship and character (even if it's canon) in bnha is seen as something shameful to recognize which I think is very telling considering how large the queer and disabled part of the fandom is. Minorities are being punished for relating to a manga with discrimination as one of it's core themes. Do what you want with that...

“…hate-mail just pushed him over the edge so he just scrapped everything just as punishment to spite them…”

This kind of references rumors from a few years ago about the shipping community sending hate mail and death threats towards Horikoshi and everyone just running with it without doing their research.

Horikoshi did receive death threats but it was about Dr.Garaki's original name which you can read about here. It was mostly the eastern side of the fandom being aggressive, even going as far as posting videos of them burning the volume where Garaki's name was revealed which isn't okay. However, everyone blamed it on the western shipping community... for whatever reason...

There was another instance where people in the western fandom started sending Horikoshi death threats on his twitter because of a chapter about Endeavor getting attacked by Dabi and an Nomu and the Todo family being worried about him, people claiming that Hori "deserved to die" for romanticizing and glorifying abuse (when that wasn't at all the case, I'm genuinely confused on how they interpreted that...). This came out six years ago but somehow is still narrowed down to the queer community and women being toxic... like what? Do you see my point now of it feeling like we need to be granted permission to do certain things in fandom if we don't want to be punished?

Also who was Hori punishing by not confirming any ships? If anything, I’ve seen most shippers appreciative than not…

II: Ochako Uraraka and her relationship with Izuku Midoriya

Back to that point about misogyny that I mentioned earlier...

"...I would have lowkey wish we got to see deku and ochaco end up together since their relationship was hinted from the beginning..."

Quick warning... this is gonna be a long point.

Yes, they were attracted to each other at the beginning, no one is denying that. No one is denying Ochako’s crush either. Izuku’s nervous around her for the first like 50-ish chapters because he's still used to having friends (especially a girl. If you think about it, if his childhood friends were the only friends he had ever had before getting shunned by his community, then he had never had a girl as a friend before... ever) but their relationship eventually mellows out into a normal friendship. Given Ochako and Toga's arc, I don't think Izuocha was ever destined to end romantically.

Toga was desperate to be loved by someone who accepted her for who she was while Ochako was desperate to be able to show love to someone who she truly admired. Ochako wanted to be like Deku and tried for a while until she realized that she couldn’t and shouldn’t want to be like Deku. She thinks he’s amazing but she realizes that she can’t strive to be like him because she’s already like him but wants to change.

(this is kind of off topic but I just want to point out what Ochako said about Toga being sad about not being able to totally become Jin. Correct me if I'm remembering wrong but, Toga was only able to ever transform into Ochako completely, quirk and all. I think there's an analogy there, where her being able to be just like someone possibly means she's in love with them but she convinces herself that she loves everyone equally. I think it's supposed to be saying that "even though you can't be him completely, doesn't mean you don't love him, you just don't love him in the way you thought you did" and I think Ochako realizes that because she possibly had the same realization with Izuku. Becoming him didn't work out for her because she didn't love him the way others told her she did... I guess it wasn't off topic... oh well.)

The highlighted parts can apply to Ochako too if you replace “bloodlust” with “envy”. She suffered the same issue that Toga did with other people telling her how and who to love which made her feel like she was supposed to be jealous.

She didn't like these feelings of jealousy, so she began to unintentionally be like Deku and hide them. I don't think she ever had an issue with loving Deku but she had an issue with the way she convinced herself of how she loved Deku made her feel. It made her feel like she was hiding something because I think she felt conflicted for not loving him the way everyone expected her to. All the way up to her final fight with Toga, we were only getting intel about her crush from other characters. Not her.

There's a lot of Mina just telling her what her feelings are despite Mina canonically not knowing much about love. Her crush has always been projected onto her which is why she's able to relate to Toga so well and wants to be more like her since Toga is able to live as herself so comfortably and broke away from conformity and what's expected of her.

Ochako's crush is only there because it's expected to be and her arc is meant to prove that she can be more than just the MCs love interest. Ochako's projected crush is Horikoshi trying to prove a point about basic shonen tropes which he's done time and time again throughout the story. SHE WANTS TO LIVE AND LOVE HOW SHE PLEASES WITHOUT SOCIETY TELLING HER HOW TO JUST LIKE TOGA WAS ABLE TO DO! I WILL KEEP SAYING IT UNTIL MY THROAT IS RAW AND DUDEBROS BEGIN TO FINALLY UNDERSTAND AND NOT VIEW FEMALE CHARACTERS AS NOTHING MORE THAN EYE CANDY FOR THE MALE CHARACTERS!!!

In the epilogue. she hides her feelings with a smile because she doesn't want to worry anyone (sound familiar?) so it only makes sense that it was Deku who pushed her to let out her feelings despite not practicing what he preaches. So, she embraced her inner Himiko and let out her feelings with her whole face. Those feeling just weren't for Deku... and they shouldn't have to be.

I genuinely feel like (especially with the way dudebros hate queer ships in this fandom) if Ochako was a boy, her arc wouldn't have been so widely misinterpreted. Because if he had talked about how amazing Izuku was and Mina came in and still said "It's love!" most fans would've taken it as a joke and/or even going as far as pointing out that the crush wasn't real because he didn't actually admit to it and it was projected onto him by other characters. But, the world ain't ready for that conversation.

"...I saw it as the fandom tryn to force their ships into the story 100% ruining key moments..."

I mainly added this quote because I thought it was so absurd. How do you see class-a coming to support Ochako as "omg it's the fandom forcing their agenda and controlling Hori through mind control to force their ships into the story and ruin this key moment,"??? Like, is it really so unthinkable that Horikoshi can have creative freedom outside the norm of treating girl characters as a trophy for the MC? You expected Izuku to marry her on the spot while she's having a mental breakdown? It's just... anyways...

III: Old-Gen Shonen Homoeroticism and it's Relation with Internalized Misogyny and how New-Gen is Changing That

The Shonen genre - especially old gen - is notorious for it's accidental misogyny, queerphobia, and racism. It got to the point where it's just kind of expected at this point.

The main one is usually misogyny. A lot of shonen mangaka like to write women as nothing more than eye candy and when they are actually given a personality and power, their character arcs are suddenly ignored/neglected and turned back into eye candy. Take Tsunade and Nezuko for example. We're told that they're important and powerful and yet they rarely do anything and almost never get important speaking lines and when we get to see them in action, the author makes sure to highlight certain parts of their bodies. Nezuko I think is an especially obvious one, being literally muzzled for most of the story, and when she powers up, she grows up and is suddenly given huge boobs...

Almost every shonen girls' character arcs revolves around a man and if not, then their existence is for the sake of a male character. I will say, I havent watched much shonen because of this aspect that's always apparent, but almost every older shonen I've watched, read, or seen other people talk about, it rears its ugly head at least once.

Because of that, most love interests weren’t given enough personality to actually form a meaningful relationship with the MC that the audience - especially female and queer audiences - can connect to. More often than not, it’s “I like her cuz she’s pretty” or “I like her cuz she likes me” and it’s irritating. And since these relationships are so shallow, authors are forced to create an interesting bond between the MC and a different character which usually ends up being the deuteragonist who is usually another boy more often than not. And boys in media written “for boys” are almost never neglected the way a girl would be, which is a sad truth.

These relationships almost always end up feeling like they’re passed the point of friendship and because of that, a lot of women and queer people end up shipping them instead of the canon love interest. Because their relationship being romantic actually makes sense most of the time.

BakuDeku, Eremin, KilluaGon, NaruSasu, ItaFushi, SatoSugu, IsaBachi, HideKan, GenoSai, LawLight, the list can go on for fucking ever.

However, in bnha and BakuDeku’s case, especially when the “canon” relationship with the “canon” love interest wasn’t really developed at all, and we never got a hint from Deku that he liked her, I don’t think this homoeroticism wasn’t intentional. Like with a lot of new-gen, there wasn’t really blatant misogyny towards the “love interest” present to explain away the closeness between the two male leads.

All of the roles a love interest would usually have, were given to Katsuki. He was damseled for Deku to save, he was Deku’s biggest cheerleader, he risked his life to save Deku, he died in Izuku’s honor, he showed up for Izuku when no one else thought to, he showed up to his hospital room and cried over the condition he was in, and then he devoted nearly a decade of his life trying to bring Izuku’s dream back into fruition… He cares so fucking much and Izuku cares right back. And no one can convince me that it was accidentally gay, because Horikoshi literally felt the need to tell AND remind us that Katsuki doesn’t like girls. Plus, like I said before, all of that was done without neglecting Uraraka’s character arc.

But even though all of that is in text, I think shonen bros just expect it while also expecting the main girl and boy to be together… because that’s how it always used to be. It wasn’t until new-gen - starting with mha - started to purposely parody dated shonen tropes and twisting them into their own stories that shonen bros began to feel threatened by queer ships. Because they know that there’s actually a chance of them happening now, and I feel like IzuOcha not being canonized is the beginning of a new trend. And misogynistic anime fans already hate it.

Conclusion - TLDR

uh idk what to say here.

In conclusion, fandom culture kinda sucks because of unexpected reasons, Ochako’s character arc is ignored for the sake of men wanting her to be Izuku’s prize and it’s irritating as fuck, and I think previously accidental homoeroticism in old-gen shonen is becoming purposeful in new-gen shonen as new-gen slowly becomes more progressive and less misogynistic. Oh and bkdk canon ig (I don’t think I’ve ever said that before, strangely enough…)

[artbyblastweave]

Exhibit B as to why I know none of you have ever read Marvel zombies. Tell Me There Is Not Something Going On With These Two

[ecoterrorist-katara]

Nothing about Ka/taang precludes Katara being Chief of the SWT…

which is why it pisses me off even more that Katara didn’t get to have a role of any political importance whatsoever. It wouldn’t change anything about LOK’s storyline, and it would be fully in line with her character.

There’s a common anti-Zutara argument that Katara wouldn’t want to be Fire Lady, because she would want to rebuild and lead her own culture. I am sympathetic to that. Based on her canon characteristics, she might want to be a United Republic Councilwoman, Chief of the SWT, or just generally the Waterbending Master / Matriarch of the her tribe, which would be easier (though not impossible) if she weren’t married to the sovereign of another nation — I get that.

but the thing is…she didn’t get to do any of that, even though “wife of the Avatar” doesn’t contradict those roles. All the things that would be difficult for her to do if she were married to Zuko, she still didn’t get to do as Aang’s wife. She didn’t get to have a career the way her husband, or her brother, or her friends did.

so it’s extra hypocritical when Ka/taang shippers are like “but being Fire Lady would disempower Katara!” when Ka/taang canonically disempowered her! And KA fans are fine with that: they bend over backwards to justify why Katara doesn’t have a statue, or why she wasn’t there to protect Korra from the Red Lotus, or why she wasn’t at Yakone’s bloodbending trial. Yeah she got to live in the SWT — eventually, I assume, because in the comics she just follows Aang around — but what else did she get to do? Fucking nothing, apparently. Because to some people, the greatest honour for a woman is to be the hero’s wife.

[justaneedle]

Okay, can this fucked-up fandom stop saying that Percy took the sky for Annabeth and it means blah-blah-bla, because it didn't fucking happen!

It's also advisable to forget the fuck the wording "tricked into holding the sky" because this DIDN'T fucking HAPPEN either, but I'm asking too much!

THIS FANDOM READS BOOKS WITH THE ASS AND IT'S NOT FUCKING FUNNY!

[sandumilfshou]

still kind of insane to me that people talk shit about jiang cheng without fully understanding what he has been through so lets just understand what his mental state is like BEFORE canon begins:

born via a dysfunctional marriage to be the sect heir

father doesnt care for him, mother expects too much from him/everything he does is not enough

has his three dogs just kicked out randomly with no notice because of some kid he's never heard of by the father who never gave him love and/or attention

said father then favours this kid more than him, to the point that the entire world basically thinks that this kid is biologically your father's son as well, which causes even more family dysfunction

despite this still learns to love this kid as his unofficial brother

works his absolute hardest but is always second-best because his new shixiong is naturally talented

nobody appreciates the hard work he puts in at being second place despite the fact wwx literally doesnt work hard for it

masks his emotions with anger as a coping mechanism to minimise the amount of hurt he feels

ok great so now lets actually take all of the above and apply this mental wellbeing to canon events FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE (keep in mind this is literally what jc is seeing/experiencing because he DOESNT KNOW what the reader knows):

brother is off being the protagonist and getting in trouble and gets their sisters marriage ruined

comes home from a year away and then almost immediately has to go and be a hostage where brother continues his protagonist behaviour

gets trapped and nearly dies in a cave with a 400-year-old monster, is in charge of finding a way out and making sure everyone else escapes

brother and a guy who maybe hates him get stuck behind in the cave so now jiang cheng has to boost it home ON FOOT, without food, to get manpower to rescue them, which takes a minimum of a few days likely without any food or sleep

no appreciation or thanks for doing that since brother was more heroic and killed the 400-year-old monster

gets scolded by his father for being annoyed by this

parents immediately get into another fight about father loving wwx more than jc

because of the above shenanigans their sect is targeted next

tries to defend brother against being whipped to death and/or having his hand cut off by mother

witnesses his entire sect being burned and murdered

loses both his parents

decides to sacrifice himself to save his brother's life, instead of dying he is tortured and has his golden core melted

on top of his inferiority issues, the ONE THING he was expected to do was be the sect leader for the yunmeng jiang. the sect that no longer exists. he is now a sect leader with no sect and no golden core. no shit he wants to mcfuckin die

miraculously gets a new golden core but loses his brother

immediately plunged into a war and he's only like 17

spends 3 months trying to find his brother only for his brother to show up doing the Forbidden Magic and necromancy which is Super Disrespectful in their culture like holy shit what are you doing

brother refuses to use his sword in favour of the Forbidden Magics and kind of keeps undermining jc's orders as sect leader which makes jc look weak in front of all the other sect leaders when he's actively trying to rebuild their sect and be respected as a leader

fights a war for [handwaves] an amount of time, certainly a few years minimum, while watching his brother descend further into Unhealthy Behaviour but brother refuses to do anything or talk about it

ends up lowkey being a war hero

the other three great sects (of which there are now only four) swear brotherhood, leaving out ONLY ymj/jiang cheng, which, what the Fuck dude

is now a teenager who has lost his parents who now has to rebuild his sect from scratch with fuck all money, supplies, and support

brother, who promised to always be at his side helping, is not helping, and in fact is actively just getting drunk and being a nuisance and STILL REFUSING TO SAY WHY

entire cultivation world starts to turn on his brother who is now looking like a loose cannon bc he has Forbidden Magics that are Terrifyingly Powerful and also it has been proven that he does not give a fuck about jc's opinion since he's constantly doing whatever the fuck he wants

literally out of nowhere said brother decides to piss off everyone, start fights, and then KILL JIN GUARDS at a camp and MAKE OFF with like fifty people who are part of the family that he just fought a war against and were responsible for slaughtering his family/sect

go to the terrifying haunted mountain where wwx and the wen remnants are and sees that he's essentially starting a new family with a kid and crops, doesn't seem to care that jiang cheng is still trying to keep the ymj afloat and look like they have any strength

brother is still doing Forbidden Magic and refuses to explain why, and now says he'll secede from the ymj so his bad reputation doesn't reflect on jc like he HASNT BEEN DOING THAT THE WHOLE TIME

so now shixiong wants to just abandon jc completely after jc has lost his parents, had to rebuild everything from scratch, while ignoring the promise he's made their whole life? ok fuck you

jc also can't defend him in public because that would turn the ymj into a target and please keep in mind he is a teenager who was expected to do this ONE THING by his parents and he has poured his heart and soul and blood and tears into rebuilding the ymj and they are So Vulnerable Right Now

uhhh what the fuck suddenly wwx kills their sister's husband ?? bro what the FUCK?

everyone rallies to go and attack wwx for this and again jc literally cant do anything about it and refusing to go will just make everyone assume he's on wwx's side and their sect can't afford to be attacked rn

bro what the fuck now THEIR SISTER IS DEAD?????

oh even better now said brother is DEAD

jiang cheng literally has NO ONE LEFT. no friends. no family. no parents, no siblings, everyone he knew growing up is dead. its literally just him and his infant nephew, who by the way, is living with the sect who are the most powerful and also most likely to be super fucking shady so jc has to tread very carefully

so jc spends over a decade raising his nephew ALONE while trying to make ymj powerful and also hunting/killing demonic cultivators that now p much only exist bc his brother invented/popularised the technique

oh yeah and also this whole time the guy who maybe hated his brother is now like EVEN colder and more antagonistic towards jc like it was HIS FAULT that wwx is dead? get fucked lan wangji you didnt even like the guy (or if this is cql/untamed canon: you literally did nothing either so where do you get off on acting like you're better than jc)

over a decade passes and suddenly his dead brother is alive again and causing more problems and acting like the things he did were not major contributors towards jc's entire family and sect dying

More Political Drama Happens and jc has to manage it

suddenly its revealed that the guy he's been co-raising his nephew with is the major villain who caused the entire world to turn on wwx in the first place oh and also it turns out that the fucking miraculous core jc has IS HIS BROTHER'S, WHO NEVER SAID ANYTHING, AND THIS IS THE REASON HE STARTED THE FORBIDDEN MAGICS AND STOPPED HELPING AROUND THE SECT, but he didnt even BOTHER to tell jiang cheng about it

by the way did i mention this was done via an entirely unconsented experimental surgery

and now the brother of the doctor who did the unconsented experimental surgery is ?? mad at jiang cheng about it ???? like he was supposed to KNOW ABOUT THIS when wwx was KEEPING IT FROM HIM ON PURPOSE???

and now theyre all nearly dying in this dumbass temple - and the ONE family member jc still has is literally being threatened with a garotte

oh cool now jc's brother is saying forget the past let's just leave it all behind !!! as though THAT ISNT JC'S ENTIRE LIFE AND TRAUMA and the ONE THING he EVER wanted was for him, wwx, and jyl to be alive and happy, and now wwx is saying just forget it! like FUCK YOU???? does jc truly mean NOTHING???????

oh and now his brother is off gallivanting with the guy who hated him - who it turns out doesn't hate him - and now they're getting married

and jiang cheng is meant to just. pretend all of this never happened and live his life normally. while wwx is out there. being happy and married.

like... if you can read all of this and still treat jc like he's the bad guy, i'm sorry, but you have literally zero empathy. dude had it probably more rough than any of the other main ensemble cast, and i am including jgy in that, because jgy Made His Choices. jc literally just had to let things happen around him helplessly

[ms-all-sunday]

popular posts that say canon sanji and zoro have no reason to fight. that isn't fucking true theyre fighting about who can provide for the crew the most thats always been what theyve been fighting about. even OPLA understands this.

in little garden they were fighting about who can catch the most food has that never struck you as significant to their characters who are motivated by acts of devotion?