#sexism and misogyny

[waterlilyvioletfog]

“Man in A Dress”, Gone With The Rain

TW: discussion of misogynistic and especially anti-trans tropes/stereotypes/rhetoric in media. I use male pronouns for a character who may be interpreted as transfem, for clarity.

Caveat: I’m white, I’m queer but not transfem, I haven’t watched the whole show and I haven’t read the novel the show is based on. Spoilers through Episode 18.

So it’s a reasonably common trope in cdramas I’ve watched recently to have a male character wear women’s clothes for Sneaking purposes (not usually Sexual Sneaking, but still uncomfortably close to that anti-trans trope) and it’s always played for laughs and it’s always like “oh doesn’t our six foot tall male lead with big broad shoulders look so silly in this maid costume hur dur”. Some dramas (Starry Love) can manage to make this not blindingly offensive, but other dramas like say, Blood of Youth, may have scenes where the male characters are in drag and look ridiculous and “unwomanly” and awkward. Lots of furtive looks and hunching down and hissing because They Are Men.

Gone With The Rain has two examples (so far, I’ve just gotten through ep. 18) of a “male” character dressing in women’s clothes… and they both feel different (at least to me) from this trope, or at least like there is something more substantial and meaningful at work than mere “man in dress lol” anti-trans misogynistic jokes.

The first case is in the first arc when Bai Moxi, our main heroine, dresses Wan Jiagui (a young loyalist soldier trapped in a rebel-controlled city) in women’s clothes and has him act as a body double for her so that he (and originally also she) can escape the city. Wan Jiagui is initially hesitant and embarrassed by this because He Is A Man and also your crush buying you women’s clothes is apparently emasculating or whatever, but the execution… Wan Jiagui is wearing clothes made to fit his body, not borrowed clothes, and there’s nothing sheer or form-fitting going on. The costume he and Moxi both wear isn’t the sort of thing she usually wears, either, with a big draping scarf as part of the bodice instead of her usual jacket, and cool tones where she’s so far mostly worn reds and oranges. It’s still not men’s clothes, but it’s not something that we would expect either character to wear. This makes the dissonance doubled (both characters are out of their usual uniform) and thus reduced (Wan Jiagui doesn’t necessarily look weirder to the audience than Moxi does). And beyond the initial discomfort Wan Jiagui displays, there isn’t much comedy to the disguise. The costumes serve a purpose, it makes sense that he’d dress as her, and he acts pretty much as he has for the last several episodes, including having a chase scene full of tension and danger, all while wearing women’s clothes. The male character isn’t wearing women’s clothes to sneak around the women’s quarters at the palace, he’s wearing them as his most practical choice of outfit for escaping a dangerous situation, with the co-conspiracy (actually, primary conspiracy) of the female lead. Instead of sinister or silly, it’s smart.

The second case is Wu Yin. Wu Yin (played by actress Liu Meitong) is an ostensibly male character who has disguised himself as a woman to infiltrate a women’s school. This, on the surface, is like, the DEFINITION of the predatory man in drag anti-trans trope— male character dresses as a woman to deceive women and enter a women’s-only space. But, as Bai Moxi notes, he’s not there for “promiscuity”, as she puts it. This is the primary reason why she doesn’t tell anyone when she discovers that Wu Yin is AMAB. If Feng Ming, who’s been harassing Moxi and her cousin Fengyao, had done the same thing, she’d scream to the rooftops. Bai Moxi does blackmail Wu Yin regarding his gender, but evidently feels no fear towards him and sees no harm in his continued presence. She blackmails Wu Yin because it’s a point of leverage and she’s a shady, scheming opportunist, not because she thinks what Wu Yin is doing is wrong.

Wu Yin (in situ) does behave differently from the rest of the class, but it mostly comes off as “Wu Yin is a stick-up-the-ass bluestocking surrounded by silly beauties who dance all night”. Wu Yin’s just naturally proper and somber, not uncomfortable. Additionally, we have another comparison of female characters wearing traditionally male clothes in the other class, who are top students who learn archery. Gender nonconformity is expected, textually and visually, and there’s a female character who belongs to that other class who has exactly as many hidden agendas and secret plans as Wu Yin does.

Most crucially for me are the scenes after the Marquis’s visit (Wu Yin wore traditionally masculine clothes for this time) where Wu Yin presents as a woman again. Everyone in the school knows Wu Yin is AMAB. Wu Yin just dresses as a woman because this is a women’s school and he should dress the part. Wu Yin’s words! The idea that a male character could willingly return to presenting and living as a woman, for no material gain— that isn’t anti-trans at all. That’s as close to a trans-positive narrative as you can get without explicitly making a character trans.

If you treat Wu Yin as a genuine portrayal of the transfem experience, Wu Yin’s guilt when Moxi calls him a man reads as self-internalized transphobia, or fear of being outed; wearing male clothes when acting as an official and returning to women’s clothes after comes across as a trans person closeting themselves around their co-workers and family; Wu Yin presenting as male becomes inextricably tied to loyalty to Wu Lang and his conformity is closeting for a transphobic parent’s love and approval; and Bai Moxi and Chen Wende both saying Wu Yin looks good in women’s clothes comes off as support and gender affirmation, demonstrating that trans individuals can be genuinely attractive in their gender identity, that the desire isn’t a one-way street for trans people.

All of this is not to say that the creators of this series intended to make a genuinely positive portrayal of the transfem experience or to show a transphobic and misogynistic joke played straight where a cishet male dude can just wear the fucking dress and kick ass— I’m sure that you can make the opposite case, and I’m not an expert in trans storytelling or stereotypes and can’t speak to the transfem experience personally. But it’s a way that a person with the lens of feminist, trans, and queer coding could feasibly interpret the text, and I think that’s interesting.

[animentality]

[trash-and-trash-accessories]

I do want to note that the whole "women are allowed to dress masculine and wear trousers" thing needs to be viewed in its historical context:

People fought for generations to be allowed to dress that way. They fought hard to be allowed to wear pants. Blue jeans were a symbol of feminist revolution. Women were barred from workplaces and schools for wearing them.

This is not some a natural fact that women dressing masculine is less shocking and humiliating. That normalization was fought for and hard-won.

And yet so many people erase the struggles of those people who fought to make that happen and pretend that it's just normal and natural that people don't see women "dressed like men" as ridiculous.

The Marriage of Figaro has what's called a "breeches role" which is a woman wearing men's clothes playing am ale role. This was done partly due to the vocal range requirements, but in many cases it was done comedically. It was risque and sexualized or comic relief that a woman was dressed as a man.

Anti-suffragette posters mock women wearing pants - well they were bloomers and split skirts back then - and mocking more masculine cut styles of clothes. This was meant to portray this as ridiculous.

They mocked the "new woman" in Weimar Germany, lamenting that they were too masculine.

This is a political cartoon from the 1920s depicting a woman in masculine dress deciding which bathroom to use:

Sorry but you're erasing these struggles and flattening history when you say this shit.

Women were killed and institutionalized in the struggle to make this happen. It really fucking bothers me the way it's framed as "people just don't find it as weird when women dress masculine."

Yes they fucking did. Until women and transmasculine people fought for their right to wear what they want. It's normalized because people struggled to normalize it.

And it's not normal everywhere. There are many countries where it's still illegal for women to wear pants. Afghanistan, for example.

Even in the US, it's forbidden and considered ridiculous in groups like the FLDS, the Amish, and the Hutterites.

We are flattening and erasing the struggles of women when we say these things. I know we're trying to build theory here but you can't build solid theory on a foundation of lies.

[justaboutsnapped]

Why you shouldn’t support the upcoming game Black Myth: Wukong

Simply put, the creators behind Black Myth: Wukong are raging misogynists.

Founders and creatives of the studio have:

Joked about former female employees hypothetically doing prostitution

Used suggestive/objectifying/derogatory imagery & phrasing in their hiring flyers (under the cut), e.g. “In addition to hookup buddies, we promise to provide more thoughtful services” , “fatties fuck off”, etc.

Written entire think pieces on how video games don’t need female players or developers, how women are biologically inclined towards “softer” modes of gaming than men (there’s also a bit of homophobia mixed in through language such as “fuck sissies”), how some things should just be made for men, etc. “Fuck sissies, fuck tragic love stories, fuck moon-lit peach blossoms and flute-playing scholars! You don't need the reverse motivation of female players, you don't need to take care of those worms who just want to date chicks. Some things are just for men, their depression, their anger, their pain...”

Made numerous sexually explicit (& honestly incel-like) comments including ones about a female character in Black Myth: Wukong, e.g. “once you get used to this [character design] you can jerk off to it”, etc.

Boasted about how they’re losing followers, who must be women

To no one’s surprise, when people criticise the studio online, they’re met with vitriol about how they’re hypersensitive feminists, too politically correct, etc.

Chinese women have been YELLING non-stop on social media about how bad it is so it’s pretty depressing to see that a lot of non-Chinese gamers, even after reading an IGN article covering the situation, are apathetic. I get that a lot of people are excited about the novelty of a soulslike game based on Chinese mythology, but do you really want to support a studio that actively contributes towards and benefits from misogynistic gaming culture?

Talking about separating the artist from their art is bullshit if you're financially supporting them. Boycott! Pirate!

Here are some sources if you want to see detailed translations, learn more about the situation as well as the misogynistic gaming culture at large China:

[heliophile-oxon]

this person needs to learn that their opinion about other people's bodies and lives - these being completely unrelated to the opiner's existence and none of their godsdamned business - is a personal thing and shouldn't be posted in any public online spaces when they have it because many people find it disgusting

[our-queer-experience]

as far as i know, jkr has not apologized for playing a heavy hand in turning imane khelif into a world wide punching bag for the crime of being a strong woman of color who didnt meet up to her code of gender. and i doubt she will with banda, only this is soccer. will people care now? will they do anything to uplift black women, trans women, intersex women? or will you all continue to only pick them up as trends.

[hussyknee]

Vajra Chandrasekera is a Locus and Nebula award-winner and has been short-listed for a Hugo Award this year. You can find his Tumblr here: @adamantine and his twitter here: @_vajra

[ferocioustrout]

(person who physically cannot care about a character unless theyre hot and can be shipped yaoi style voice) no you don’t understand it’s not that I don’t like women it’s just that all of them in every piece of media are horribly written mary sues who are evil and bad. not my epic male blorbo who I ship with some guy he interacted with once and has every superpower, committed war crimes, and had 3 lines though. he’s awesome and well written and if you really think about it he’s the best character in the series

[heliophile-oxon]

OP has brought the sparkling misogyny, as noted in the comments, not to mention the ageism.

The exercise you enjoy - or even just, the exercise you dislike a bit less - is the exercise you're going to actually do, which by definition is ♾ (<= the infinity symbol, in case it doesn't show up right) times better, healthier and more effective than the exercise you don't do (because some misogynistic p.o.s. was trying to put you down and denigrate you for it).

So what if this kind of exercise activity is not for everyone? OP doesn't like it, it wouldn't be my own first choice tbh - and who gives a flying fuck? (As others have commented, this could be brilliant for people with joint problems, for example, who want to exercise without putting so much strain on their joints. Or just for whoever finds it fun.)

OP can naff off.

[bodhrancomedy]

I’m very specifically thinking about One Room Thrillers because “girl goes to save boyfriend/fiancé from the fae/supernatural on a long journey” is a piece of well-worn folklore - but very specifically folklore.

Not thrillers.

[silvermoon424]

One of my favorite genres of post is one man being like "the female orgasm doesn't exist. I would know, I've had sex with a number of women and they are BIOLOGICALLY INCAPABLE of achieving orgasm" and then a bunch of other guys show up to roast him

[pinbones]

I've seen a few posts about women and pants now and many of them are very good, and not to nitpick those posts or downplay religious sexism or anything, but I have to emphasise:

Somebody who DOESN'T live in a controlling religious country/cult/family is also affected by sexism. We all know that, right? Secular parts of the first world also have opinions about how women dress, including when it comes to trousers, especially in childhood and in institutions like schools and the workplace

Me and many people my age (20s) remember being forced into skirts, punished and shamed by parents & teachers & peers & possibly then bosses about what we wear not being feminine enough, and it wasn't by deeply religious sects. Many updates to dress codes are very new and sexist views are still in place in many institutions. Normalised societal misogyny wants women (and people they want to treat as women) to dress femininely, down to what KIND of pants they're allowed to wear (compare a pink top and jeggings to mens jeans and tell me these two women are treated the same. Hating women in pantsuits is still a sexist office joke today, and even those outfits are feminine compared to male suits, which raise eyebrows when worn by women). The women I know who wear trousers regularly are literally otherwise feminine, and all wear dresses to events.

I know trousers have become much more normalised over the past few decades in secular society (yay!! the result of many many years of effort and lawbreaking) but let's not be absolute when we talk about the pants concept lol. Especially within a larger conversation about female/transmasc/intersex/transfem masculinity and social perceptions, especially in an age of rising fascism

[rotzaprachim]

I know we’re in a new era of livetweeted misogyny but Elon musk threatening to impregnate Taylor swift on live social media feels like a new degree change in the air

[our-queer-experience]

the trump administration has completely scrubbed “dei” initiatives from the cdc website. one of those pages is about eligibility for postpartum concentratives- which is honestly really important for you and your baby’s health. apparently, calling some women “people” so that postpartum trans men are included on a medical website is too far. luckily, you can still get the cdc guidlines that were censored by the trump administration here. itd be a shame if they were still spread around

[shamebats]

"I want to be really clear about this because some people have interpreted transmisogyny to mean trans male and trans masculine people don't experience misogyny, which is something I've never said and obviously oppositional sexism is a form of sexism and obviously trans male and trans masculine people experience that"

- Dr. Julia Serano, author of Whipping Girl and coiner of the term transmisogyny on the It Could Happen Here podcast, episode "Whipping Girl, The Book That Changed Everything ft. Dr. Julia Serano"

[separatismus]

Killing leftist men should be legal if women do it actually.