#senti bubbler
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ijustliketoreadstuff · 4 months ago
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Let’s talk about everyone who knows.
Identities have always been a strict topic for Marinette, because as guardian, she felt she alone had to ensure the safety of all the heroes who were entrusted with a miraculous, this included herself and Cat Noir
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However, as much as Marinette had initially attempted to keep a strict hold on her rule on keeping identities a secret, there were eventually bound to be some who would learn who she and Cat Noir were. Marinette alone has always done what she could to keep others from learning she was Ladybug, however,  this was never foolproof as the unexpected was bound to happen. Out of all the people who came to learn about her identity, Marinette technically only ever told ONE person her secret, and that was Alya. 
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Back in “Gang of Secrets”, when Alya confronted her about what was weighing on her, Marinette had to decide if she would continue keeping her secret or take a risk. Overwhelmed with her responsibilities as Ladybug and guardian, Marinette took a risk to tell Alya her secret identity, because out of everyone in Paris, it was Alya who broke Marinette’s fears over what could happen if Hawkmoth discovered someone knew her identity. Alya’s actions in “Gang of Secrets” and “Senti-bubbler”, left Marinette willing to entrust her secret, as well as a miraculous, to Alya, but most of all, it convinced Marinette to ease up on her rule to not entrust a miraculous to the people whose identities were exposed, and instead have faith her friends could protect themselves and trust they would not betray her in the same sense Chloe did, as they did not prioritize the power of the miraculous, but rather the help they could give to her and all of Paris, even without superpowers.
Now, as of season 5, including Alya, there are now 8 people who know Marinette is Ladybug, but unlike Alya, Marinette never told any of the others her secret identity, they all just found out on their own, one way or another. 
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Luka was one of the rare few who learned both Ladybug and Cat Noir’s identities, but the only reason he found out both was because he was placed in the unique situation of fighting an akumatized villain with the power to potentially expose Ladybug and cat Noir’s identities. Wishmakers power transformed Ladybug and Cat Noir into physically becoming what they dreamed they wanted to be when they were kids. Normally the quantum masking magical effect of the miraculous would help confuse human minds to prevent people from connecting the obvious, so they wouldn't easily identify the heroes through appearance alone, but Wishmaker counteracted that magic by changing their entire appearance. Ladybug had hoped that by Viperion using his power of second chance, he could help them defeat Wishmaker before he got the chance to use his power on them. Unbeknownst to Ladybug, Luka felt no other choice but to lie about learning her and Cat Noir’s identities, until “Migration”, because just like Ladybug said in “Ephemeral”, if anyone knew either her or Cat Noir's identity, things could still be manageable, because at least there would still be one of them left to fight shadow moth if he took action to defeat just one of them, but if anyone knew both her and Cat Noir's identities, then it's over for everyone. Luka knew that if Shadow Moth caught him, everyone would be endangered, but he did not want to become a priority for the heroes to protect over everyone else in Paris, so he kept it a secret until he had no other choice but to tell Ladybug and all of his friends he knew.
(In "Migration", Luka reveals to his friends he knows both Ladybug and Cat Noir's identities, and must leave Paris for everyone's safety, including his own.)
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Luka left Paris for his and everyone else's protection, but in the season 5 finale, it was revealed that he had come into contact with SuHan and had been under the tutelage of the guardians. Luka was taught to fight by Su Han, so if he also learned how to defend himself against the akumas the same way Su-han did in “Furious Fu”, Luka may be able to return to Paris regardless of Lila being the new butterfly holder, and unlike Su-Han and the other guardians, Luka has experience fighting against akumatized villains, allowing him to defend himself better so as to not leave Ladybug and Cat Noir to worry over his safety.
(London special, Alix reviews everything she knows about Marinette and Adrien's history as Ladybug and Cat Noir)
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Aside from Luka, Alix is the only other person who currently knows both Ladybug and Cat Noir’s identities, but unlike Luka, Alix is the only person who can know any hero and villains identity at any given time, this was something that was inevitable because unlike the other heroes, Alix’s power over time left her the responsibility of ensuring the timeline stayed safe, her job meant she had to look over the history of everyone's lives to ensure everything was on track. Such knowledge would of course place her in a great deal of danger, but fortunately, she remains at a safe distance in the burrow, traveling through time. Ladybug never told Alix her identity, but she had no complaints over Alix knowing her personal secrets, along with anyone else's, because she knew it was just part of Alix’s duty as the bunny miraculous holder to one day know such secrets, secrets even she can't know, no matter how much she asks Alix. 
(Kagami learns Marinette is Ladybug)
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Kagami was an interesting case. Marinette never told Kagami her secret identity, but in “Representation”, it was revealed that Kagami wound up being at the right place and time back in “Perfection”, when she overheard Marinette talk about her identity to Alya, at Anarka’s boat, during a moment of internal struggle over her love for Adrien. Even though Kagami was akumatized that same day she discovered Marinette’s identity and then later akumatized again in “Protection”, Kagami never told Monarch Marinette’s secret, Monarch never even sensed she was hiding such a secret like he did with Luke in “Migration”. Of course Kagami’s crisis over her friendship with Marinette was likely what kept her mind clouded enough to prevent Monarch from sensing she was hiding something from him, but at the same time, no matter the situation, Kagami could not help but feel a sense of loyalty to the friend who was always there for her, as both Marinette and Ladybug. 
Even after resolving those matters and being de-akumatized, Kagami did not reveal to Marinette she knew her secret, until “Representation”. Kagami is normally very upfront about things, but to know the biggest secret of Marinette’s life, was likely something Kagami felt she needed time to figure out how to tell Marinette. Kagami might have been in the dark about a lot of things about Marinette, but its interesting to see her shift from the one who knew the least, to the one who now knows everything, things Marinette couldn't even bring herself to tell Alya, like the truth about Gabriel's demise.
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Felix didn't know Marinette was Ladybug until Kagami told him. Kagami telling Felix Ladybug's identity made sense seeing as he was willing to confide in her one of the biggest secrets in all of Paris, Monarch’s secret identity. Felix trusts Kagami with his secrets, but doing so meant more than it being just about trust, it was about him accepting that he needed help.
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Felix put quite a target on his back when he blackmailed/bargained with Gabriel to give up the peacock miraculous back in “Strike back”, and although Felix refrained from using his powers to wipe Gabriel out of existence again (First time was in "Emotion"), Felix knew Gabriel still needed to be dealt with before he could bring further harm to him and everyone else in his life he wanted to protect, and who better to help than the one person Kagami knew wanted to stop Monarch more than anyone, Ladybug. So long as Felix prefers to rely on his own abilities, he has no interest in the powers an akuma can provide, allowing him to resist Monarch’s control, but we’ll see about Lila.
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Su Han discovered Marinette’s identity with the help of a magical compass that located the miracle box. Marinette could not hide her identity from him, let alone lie to him, because the box was in her own house. Although Su-Han knows Ladybug’s identity, she had refrained from letting him know Cat Noir’s too. Su-Han may be capable of defending himself from the akumas and miraculous holders, but he has no real experience fighting against akumatized villains, leaving him vulnerable if it was ever revealed he knew both Ladybug and Cat Noir's identities, fortunately, he only ever visits Paris if it's necessary.
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Marianne, Fu's wife, was someone who had a long history with Fu. Fu trusted Marianne with the knowledge about the existence of the miraculous and how he had the responsibility as the last guardian to protect the jewels that wielded such incredible power. Marinette didn’t need to tell Marianne her secret identity, it would have been easy enough for her to figure things out on her own.
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Marianne knew that whoever wielded the miraculous, was in turn associated with Fu, so even after seeing Marinette in civilian form to reunite her with Fu at the end of “Miracle queen”, it would have been plainly obvious to her that Ladybug and the girl who escorted Fu after he lost his memories, were the same person. Marianne and Fu don't live in Paris anymore, so Marinette can feel assured they are at a safe distance from  the akumas.
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Nathalie discovered Marinette was Ladybug, after Gabriel finished making his wish. In the London special, after Gabriel made his wish, Nathalie was originally planning to continue her efforts in stopping Gabriel the moment she returned to the secret basement under the Agreste mansion, but she instead discovered Marinette talking to Plagg and Tikki. Nathalie heard Marinette’s conversation with the kwamis and that just about confirmed Marinette as Ladybug, even before she transformed into Bug Noir. Nathalie didn’t end up learning Cat Noir was Adrien again, but now she faces an entirely new dilemma, hiding the truth from Adrien about Marinette’s secret life as Ladybug as well as the truth about Gabriel's death. Marinette might have had her doubts about Nathalie, but knowing just how much Nathalie has been there for Adrien was enough to make her feel willing to trust her. Nathalie was normally the one who was willing to be akumatized for the sake of a mission, but now that the butterfly miraculous is in the hands of Lila, Nathalie is now just another citizen trying to avoid being akumatized.
Those are the people who currently know Ladybug and Cat Noir’s identities, but let's not forget the people who knew temporarily. 
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It's not the first time Nathalie knew one of the heroes' identities, in “Cat Blanc”, she saw Adrien transform into Cat Noir. However, this left her greatly conflicted about what she was doing, because she never set out to hurt Adrien. The shock of learning Adrien was Cat Noir alone made her make the mistake of telling Gabriel, who jumped at the opportunity to akumatize his own son for the chance at a quick victory. However, the events of Cat Blanc were never meant to happen and were quickly fixed by Ladybug and Bunnyx.
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Lila was always hinted to be the future butterfly miraculous holder, and as soon as she got the butterfly miraculous, she wasted no time in using it to tract down Ladybug’s identity on her own. Fortunately for Lila, Marinette had no idea where the butterfly miraculous went, giving Lila the element of surprise. However, Lila knowing Marinette’s identity was something that was not meant to happen, her tampering with the timeline of events to uncover Ladybug’s identity only wound up alerting Bunnyx so she could do what was needed to help Ladybug prevent her from ever finding out Ladybug’s identity.
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Gabriel had always aimed to uncover Ladybug and Cat Noir’s identities, and on several occasions, he did, even if it was only temporary. He discovered Cat Noir was Adrien in “Cat Blanc”, and both Ladybug and Cat Noir’s in “Ephemeral”. Although these moments were not meant to happen and were quickly reversed with Sass and Bunnyx’s help, as it turns out, Gabriel was at most meant to discover Ladybug’s identity without it completely destroying the entire timeline…it just had to be on the day he died. 
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Fu of course knew both Ladybug and Cat Noir’s identity because he was the one who entrusted them with the miraculous. Unfortunately, in “Miracle Queen”, in a last desperate effort to protect the miracle box, the miraculous, the Kwami, Ladybug and Cat Noir, along with himself and Marianne, he wiped his memory clean. Without his memories, Hawkmoth had little to no use for Fu.
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Adrien got the chance to figure out Ladybug’s identity in "Cat Blanc", but it was in “Ephemeral” that Ladybug chose to learn Adrien’s identity first and then later decide to reveal her own identity to him. In both episodes, the two learned each others identities, and each time they did, it led to disaster because of one crucial thing, Gabriel was still Monarch. The opportunity to obtain a quick victory had always outweighed any sense of logic Gabriel had, making him quick to use the control he had over Adrien to akumatize him and defeat Ladybug, but now that Gabriel is gone and the rings containing Adrien’s amok have been returned to him, who knows what's going to happen.
Moving onto Adrien, as of season 5, only two people officially know he is Cat Noir, Luka and Alix. Adrien has not had many occurrences that led to others knowing his secret identity, because unlike Marinette, Adrien was limited by what he could do, where he could go and who he could talk to while under his fathers care, he was heavily protected and controlled in his civilian life and this alone prevented a lot of close encounters that could have led to others discovering his identity. But now that Gabriel is gone, Adrien is no longer under the same restrictions he once had, meaning anything could happen. Adrien has not told anyone his secret identity, but there are a lot of characters to think about whom Adrien could tell his secret to and even more people who could end up discovering his identity, one way or another. But again let’s just wait and see what the show has to say.
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camelots-rose · 2 years ago
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The fact Gabriel a child abuser, that took part in a murder(Shanghai special), almost murdered an entire family small children included(Senti bubbler), threatened to start World War 3 (new york) and has been terrorizing Paris for over a year not only gets a statute and hailed as a hero but has all of his crimes buried by one of the heroes meanwhile Chloe a child that has done far less than him and whom worse actions(Miracle Queen, Queen Mayor, ect) were the result of being frequently manipulated by Gabriel, not only gets treated like the devil incarnated but is sent off to live with her abuser as a 'just' punishment is quite frankly disturbing
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princess-of-the-corner · 10 months ago
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Genuinely hate how the show ignoring the Miracle Queen drama unintentionally makes it loom like Ladybug doesn't really care about the temps' safety, especially after stuff like senti bubbler. Like seriously it really wouldn't have been that hard to include a throw-away line or a scene about the temps being told what happened but still willingly take up the mantle still despite the new risk.
Hell, instead of wasting an episode to insult fans(simpleman) They could've made a earliest S4 episode about Marinette understandably not wanting to put her friends at risk due to the reveal before at the end of the episode, telling them what happened and them willingly agreeing to continue being heroes
I mean it still would've been a punch to the dick because Chloé's whole thing was saying "I understand that it's risky but I am 100% willing to dedicate myself to the cause anyway." and being totally shafted for it.
But yeah like! There's so many problems like
The other Heroes seem unaware that Hawkmoth knows their identities and may not be making an informed decision.
Ladybug not telling them is fucked up
Benching Chloé didn't save her anyway yet Marinette thinks that pretending to bench Alya will save her
None of this entirely matters because gabe goes after them like. Twice. And never again.
Kagami, upon finding out that Marinette is Ladybug in season 5, should be 100% justifiably pissed off that Marinette abused her power to break up Kagami's date with Adrien.
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miraculouslbcnreactions · 1 year ago
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I actually thought that Adrien and Gabriel's relationship seemed like it might have been possible to salvage in the early seasons. What do you think?
@tallwriter Starting a new post since this one was getting super long as this is a different topic.
The problem with Gabriel Agreste's character is that they very clearly wanted to write a sympathetic villain - you can tell that from how the show handles his death - but sympathetic villains don't work if you make them cartoonishly evil. You have to handle the situation with nuance and delicacy, especially when one of the main heroes is the villain's son.
Gorizilla is not a perfect episode by any means, but it does showcase how Gabriel should have been written if they wanted him to come across as complex and sympathetic. In that episode, Gabe thinks that Adrien is Chat Noir and, because there's no way to magically force Adrien to reveal himself or confess his secrets, Gabriel has to come up with a situation where Adrien would be forced to transform of his own free will (since that can't be overwritten with a ring or something crazy like that). Which is how we get Adrien hurtling to his death while his father looks on:
Adrien: Always! (jumps out of Gorizilla's hand, and over the side of the building) Yeah-ha! Hawk Moth:(from his lair) No! ... Hawk Moth:(from his lair) If indeed you are Cat Noir, then transform, son. Please. (Adrien continues to fall downward, resolutely remaining as he is) Come on, son! (Ladybug looks down at Adrien, then raises her head, eyes closed.) Ladybug: Cat Noir, help!! Hawk Moth:(from his lair, to Gorizilla) Drop Ladybug!
This is good writing. Yes, Gabe's plan was kind of dumb (you live with Adrien, dude, just bug his room), but if we accept that this was the only way to go about a forced reveal - and that does seem to be the writer's logic - then we see a situation where Gabriel put his son above winning. A situation where he's still very much the villain, but he's not a dastardly, cold-hearted one. He does love his son.
There are actually several of these moments in the first three seasons. Some involve Adrien and many more involve Nathalie. It's why season five's claim that Gabe put beating Ladybug above everything else rings hollow. He never actually did that outside of Evolution (S5E1). He's almost always been loved-ones first when it really counts, a thing that Ladybug uses against him in the final when she tries to crush Emilie. The whole "Ladybug obsession" thing truly feels like something they just made up for that one episode to justify Nathalie "turning sides" aka doing nothing useful beyond maintaining the status quo (hey, they needed someone to keep the senti plot from having consequences and it wasn't like she was doing anything useful anyway!)
The problem is that this "loved ones first" mentality is only used for big dramatic moments, often as a way to keep Gabriel from winning. It's not Gabriel's main characterization even though it needed to be if you want season five's ending to feel even remotely earned. Going into that ending, we should have all thought that Gabe was a messed up dude who truly did love his son. And, if Gorizilla, Style Queen, and Ladybug had all been examples of his standard characterization, then we would have thought that.
But that's not who the writers told us Gabe was.
Instead, his standard characterization paints him as petty, controlling, and manipulative. Which is wild because there was no reason to do that! Gabe could - and should - have been played as stern and removed, but generally loving when he's outside of the mask. In other words, Gabriel Agreste could be well liked while Hawk Moth was hated.
The crazy thing is that this is such a simple change to make. You either removed the episodes where Gabe's awful parenting is the source of the conflict (ex: Bubbler) or you just make a few minor changes to show that he's conflicted about his actions.
For example, take Chat Blanc, the episode that ruined so many elements of this show! In that episode, Gabe is a total bastard. He happily sacrifices his son's happiness to make an akuma in the form of Marinette and then, when Adrien's secret is revealed, does Gabe have any sort of conflict about traumatizing his son? The kind of conflict we'd expect after episodes like Gorizilla? Nope! He straight up delights in showing Adrien Emilie's... corpse? Comatose form? Whatever! Gabe then akumatizes Adrien with a smile on his face.
That gets the writers a solid F for consistent characterization. It's why I highlighted "almost" in red when I mentioned Gabe's motivation. Because in Ephemeral and Chat Blanc, the writing ignores the sympathetic stuff that characterizes the dramatic moments and goes straight for the worst-father-of-the-year, love-to-hate-him, please-let-him-die-now characterization that we get in most episodes.
If you were writing Chat Blanc's Gabriel to fit his intended complex, sympathetic mold, then you would probably drop the breakup plot or you'd have spent all season setting Marinette up as the perfect akuma target, changing the breakup into something that Gabriel felt that he HAD to do instead of opportunistic evilness. You'd also have Gabe drop a line like, "I'm sorry, Adrien. You'll thank me later" before the Chat Blanc akumatization. Or at least don't have him grinning! Do something, ANYTHING to show that Gabe sees using his son like this as a necessary evil and not a fun time! You know, like how he was begging Adrien to transform during Gorizilla? Almost like Gabe had stopped caring about winning and started just wanting his son to live.
Would these changes make Gabe less of a fun cartoon villain? Yes, but that's the point. Cartoon villains are cartoony. They're over the top. They have no nuance. Sympathetic villains don't work with those characteristics.
The normal way to get around this in a cartoon setting is to have secondary antagonists who can be played as cartoonishly evil. And, confusingly, Miraculous has those characters. Chloe, Sabrina, and Lila have been here since season one (Kim could also have stayed a bully and been added to that list, but he's not a teenage girl, so I get why they didn't do that /s.) Felix has been around since seasons three. Nathalie has been an active villain since season two. Any or all of these characters could be the cartoonish, nuance-less villain while Gabriel stays sympathetic.
Instead, they play Gabe however they want to play him in any given episode, making it so that he's impossible to understand from an audience perspective. I personally like the sympathetic take and think that those are the show's best episodes because I like complex villains. It's even how I write Gabe in my stuff because I go for less cartoony takes on canon.
I don't think a redemption was needed, but a sympathetic villain doesn't require one. All that term means is that you can understand the villain and be sympathetic to their plight. Redemption is optional. In fact, the goal is often not redemption, but an understand that, "there but for the grace of the gods go I." I mean, we've all lost loved ones. Wouldn't the power to bring a loved one back tempt you, too?
If they wanted to go for evil, cartoony Gabe, then they needed to drop all of the complexity and go for a Disney villain type character who gets a Disney villain death a la Scar or Mother Gothel. Don't give Gabe the wish. Let him fall to his own hubris by falling into the water of his secret layer and lading as a puddle of ash while a sad Ladybug looks on, having just failed to save him.
If you want to see an excellent look at how cartoon Gabe could have worked, then I highly recommend @zoe-oneesama's Scarlet Lady comic, which is just nearing its end after a multi-year run. I think it's fair to say that Zoe and I largely agree on canon's flaws, she just fixes them by leaning into the cartoon side of things, creating a hilarious story with lots of heart. Canon could have absolutely gone that way too and worked out wonderfully! The issue is not a lack of nuance, it's that they tried to add nuance without ever fully committing to it, making a story that is the worst of both worlds. While a more serious nuanced reboot would be my ideal dream, a reboot that scraps all of Gabe's nuance and just makes him go full evil would be just as satisfying and Zoe proves that.
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ilikelookingatthings · 1 year ago
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Thoughts on Miraculous Ladybug : A Comment from YouTube I'm proud of about themes and Gabriel
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and don't get me STARTED on Gabriel. the undercut and sabotaged any nuance this man had for 5 freaking seasons. every time he showed nuance or good feelings, they undercut it by forcing him to do something worse to snuff out any sense of sympathy or complexity, so we know who the bad guy and good guy is. yet they try to ham fist a last-minute redemption?!
don't get me wrong I actually DO want a redeemable complex Gabriel but its VERY confusing and just BAD how they handled it. at the very least they could have made it better if they literally said he was good and genuinely had good intentions to save his wife. after all she was 'missing' which means the plan was to use the wish to wake her up and she could come back using going missing as a cover. He wasn't raising the dead as she was in a magical coma.
he has a fix it as he knew if he lost that the ladybug miraculous would fix things and if he won, he could use the ladybug miraculous to fix any damage he did. by making 'hawkmoth' the villain it means people would have a target outside of the victims and the victims technically have to agree to the powers, so Gabe has the illusion of consent. and his plan to make a villain was to lure the ladybug and chat miraculous out of hiding by forcing them to activate to fix the problem since he couldn't track it down otherwise.
Overall, yes, it's not 'good' but his plan made sense in a way of minimizing damage for just wanting to save his wife. play up the fact they had no one to ask for help since the guardians were gone...from his view he was 'acting' as a villain. he had no training and didn't even have a properly translated book and wasn't chosen for his role.
just point to the fact Gabe has been using his miraculous of emotions wrong. he has been amplifying his own negative emotions to feel others negative emotions and forcing a fixation on the miraculous to get his victims to try to steal them. we have literally seen how even being a little emotionally off can have consequences.
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Feast with fu was a rouge Senti-monster that sensed Fu's negative emotions, negative emotions that weren't even a part of why he made the Senti-being (which was to get him some snacks, Marinette's miraculous immediately timing down when she used it to separate Adrien and Chloe instead of attacking bubbler due to her jealousy, how Tikki's snack attack affected Mari when Mari transformed. and how Akuma Victims are prone to making dumb mistakes and you literally can't reason with them properly and act more fixated and aggressive.
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they could have fixed the situation by just pointing out as a side effect from using his miraculous the way he was...his personality was literally getting twisted like his Akumas due to using mis miraculous in a way it wasn't supposed to be intended. Even more with how they mention using multiple ones can cause a strain on you and literally make you insane.
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that way it would validate the times Gabe was reasonable or genuinely cared as the real him while also validating and explaining all the times he became SO much worse and cartoonishly evil.
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while I would have preferred Adrien actually being there in the final battle with hawkmoth..... if they just played up that Mari being more willing to sympathize and see the villians genuinely needed help and weren't just evil was due to adrien's/chat's influence because that is adrien's strength in the show. his sympathy and ability to think deeper on motivations and not just punish and how he helped teach mari to not take things entirely at face value and be more patient.
heck the final battle could have worked if they played up the Mari and gabe are actually genuinely VERY similar. they have LOTS of parallels in the show...
like I think they were going for a parallel to collector/the end of collector when mari went to him to give him the book she took(even if lila took it first) where gabe surprised us by him admiring ehr stepping forward and not being mad at her, even answering her questions and agreeing not to tell adrien when she asked him to keep silent. and a reminder about how gabe did give a genuine apology to adrien at the end of collector when he could have gotten away with not doing so since adrien DID steal the book from his locker...Gabe genuinely apologized in depth.
but because the show had spent most of the season undercutting any goodness in Gabriel again with no explanation to cover it like saying it was the influence of him going insane like his victims due to how he had been using his miraculous....it just feels unearned and messed up. even more if he was going to use the wish...why couldn't he had used it so Nathalie and the mom would be okay? if his plan had always been to use himself in case there was a price how would Mari have reacted?
like I still don't get why she trusted him at all. and because they never mentioned Gabe going insane or his behavior was due to how he handled the miraculous (like Akuma victims)
...it just comes across as Gabe just being genuinely terrible and abusive as him as a default for most of the show which makes the redemption/him fighting his choice WEIRD.
like please for the love of GOD WHY did they not just make it a side effect of using his brooch the way he did literally! it would have used the fact they primed us to sympathize/not judge what people do under the Akuma influence/in the deepest throes of their negative feelings because its prompted by them being twisted by the magic to at least give Gabe a BUFFER(for the audience).
It would make him 'fighting' so to speak, literally him fighting how he had twisted himself literally with the way he used the miraculous...like how people can fight drugs or the fought akums before. and the tragedy that Nathalie thought Gabe was just bad...not realizing her enabling him using the brooch the way he did twists someone she genuinely cared about.
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like, it is easy to notice at judge the physical effects of the peacock broach, but the mental effect of the butterfly is HONESTLY terrifying/scary and has so many implications if their plan was to hint that original Gabe was more similar to Betterfly.
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I think it works even more because it would also explain why Gabe seemed different in this specific fight because he didn't know Adrien was chat noir. people often use Gabe's reaction to Adrien being Chat Noir to validate seeing Gabe as just an abusive horrible person...but what I've also seen is if Gabe actually talks or is around Adrien for enough time Gabe WILL soften to some degree...pointing to how Gabe does care for Adrien and that it grounds him more in his original motive/personality.
So, the change might be because Gabe has been amplifying his negative feelings so 'hawkmoth' is more focused and fixated on the miraculous and defeating ladybug and chat...finding out Adrien is chat makes the 'hawkmoth' affects take over more.
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like how we saw Nate and others relax at times around certain people that breakthrough the delusion (like when Nate was actually convinced to leave Chloe alone to go hang with Marinette) but he snapped back into his villain mindset when Mari's actions echoed Chloe.
I think what's worse is it's not even a rewrite since all the blocks are THERE but the show just never acknowledges it.
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kari-go · 10 months ago
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Don't know if you've mentioned it before, But which akumas are you keeping in your AU?
I already did but! considering I'm changing around the timeline again because I realized some stuff didn't make sense (like why is Gato there during Wishmaker, he's gone at that time lol) this is more of a ramble than an actual coherent post sorry
SO,
Stoneheart, Akuma!Juleka (still no name lol), Reverser, Bubbler, and Stormy Weather happen in that order. I don't think I'm gonna change this because this has been the same in almost every version of the timeline I have made so far.
I also have some plans for Befana, Ikari Gozen, Syren, Pharaoh, Collector, "Frozer", and whatever Dark Cupid's name will be. I am like 95% sure these will appear (because they're important, a new miraculous appears in 3, technically 4, of these and I also just like angst lol by that I mean there's angst in 2 of these xd)
I want to include Lady Wifi, Style Queen, Wishmaker, Gigantitan, Vanisher, Mr Pigeon, Copycat/Pixelator (I won't do them separately, only one of those), Gamer (I just think it would be really funny if Stephan beat Max at a game he's never played (I also figured out how it can make sense!)), Sandboy (literally the akuma that made this au, the ending is actually more important to me than the actual akuma lol).
I also have an urge to make Prime Queen happen but that would just be me being really fucking petty so I don't think I'll do it. it would be purely self-indulgent cringe
I'm unsure (because of previous importance or an interesting concept that's too good to abandon or I just haven't thought of it much further) about Anansi, Rogercop, Sapotis, Zombizou, Evilustrator, Princess Fragrance, Horrificator, Reflekta, Silencer, Puppeteer, Animan, Mime, Weredad, Lies, and Kwamibuster.
Definitely (or I'm not planning it) won't happen and why:
Riposte, Oni-Chan - Kagami just wouldn't let herself get akumatized lol we stan
Guitar Villain - No Jagged stuff
Captain Hardrock - she just doesn't make sense with the rules I fear :(
Chameleon - Lila gets akumatized once (maybe twice but it's definitely not this one nor Volpina)
Bakerix, Kung Food - ew no
Malediktator - Andre gets akumatized as Wishmaker instead, he also looks fucking stupid lmao
Catalyst, any group akumas, Robostus, akumatized sentis - doesn't make sense with the rules
Christmaster, Frigtingale, Party Crasher -I'm just not feeling it bro, I should also rename Chris to something different (probably not Noel what the hell)
Timetagger - no fucking time travel please
Miracle Queen - Chloe would not do that shit
Cat/Gato Blanc - even though this was the thing that started this au (paired with Sandboy) no. I don't like it, it makes no sense, it's horrible
any Zoe akuma - no Zoe
Santa Claws - Santa isn't real
If some of them aren't here, they're probably not gonna happen or are undecided because I forgot about them xd
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the-delta-42 · 1 year ago
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The Truth 2
[1 The Truth] [2 Soul] [3 Through a Shattered Mirror] [4 Healing]
Soul
“You want me to do what?!” Demanded Felix, glaring at Ladybug.
“I want you to hand over you amok, so I can extract the feather.” Answered Ladybug, “I found a thing in the miraculous spell book that could turn amok feathers into souls.”
“That sounds safe.” Snarked Kagami, folding her arms and looking down at Ladybug and Felix, “What’ll happen if it goes wrong?”
“I dunno, it didn’t say.” Answered Ladybug, practically vibrating on the spot.
“Why me? Why not one of the other Amoks hanging around?” Demanded Felix, as Ladybug looked towards the corner, where Mayura’s Ladybug sentimonster sat teaching herself to read.
“Because they have the minds and attitudes of small children.” Answered Ladybug, “that, and I like you the least.”
Felix and Kagami stared at Ladybug.
“That’s nice.”
“You have no idea what you’re doing, do you, Marinette?”
“Nope.”
Felix glanced at Kagami, before handing his ring over to Ladybug. The heroine almost immediately took the ring and started talking a mile-a-minute. Felix felt a burst of energy and had a tingly sensation run through him, as Ladybug curled the fingers of the hand not holding the ring and made and almost pulling motion. A dazed flash of light and a white Amok feather floated in the air. Ladybug wiggled her fingers and the feather turned into a ball of light, before Ladybug gently pushed the glowing ball into Felix’s chest. Felix felt the light lodge itself somewhere inside him, before the strange tingling had vanished.
“Hey, it worked!” Celebrated Ladybug, grinning.
“How do you know that?” Demanded Felix, before Ladybug pricked him, “Ow!”
Felix glared down at his hand, a small bead of blood welling on the finger tip.
“Amok’s don’t bleed.” Said Ladybug, before looking at Kagami, “You’re next.”
Kagami looked hesitant, before handing her ring over. Ladybug repeated the process, before planting the orb from Kagami’s ring into her chest. Kagami took the pin from Ladybug before she could prick her.
“I can do it myself.” Said Kagami jamming the pin deep into her finger, “Mother fuck-!”
S
Felix and Kagami watched Marinette try and wrangle the newly humanised senti’s ran around. Bubbler, now just called Bubba, ran around with Senti-Nino, while Senti-Bug kept trying to put stuff in her mouth.
“Guys, a little help?” Asked Marinette, getting a laugh from Kagami, “Seriously, I’m used to one or two, three at the most, but seriously!”
“I thought you planned on making them toddlers.” Remarked Felix, as Senti-Bug wandered up to Marinette, holding a Swan Lake DVD.
“Hmm, what is it?” Asked Marinette, wincing as she rubbed the middle of her chest, as the toddler pointed at the Princess and then to herself, “Huh?”
“Me.” Said Senti-Bug, looking up at Marinette.
“You want to be called Princess?” Asked Marinette, frowning when Senti-Bug shook her head, “Swan? Lake?”
Senti-Bug kept shaking her head, making Marinette sigh, “Odette?”
The toddler nodded, before clambering up Marinette’s leg, making Marinette scoop her into her arms. Odette sighed and curled into Marinette, as Bubba tripped and fell onto Senti-Nino, who then fell onto Senti-Alec, now simply called Al, who fell on Senti-Gabriel, now called Gabe, who hit his head on a chair. Soon, the four toddlers were bawling.
“Oh, great.” Groaned Marinette, as Odette looked at them and said “Fuck.”
S
Adrien stared at the toddlers, watching Gabe trying to eat a tie, he turned and looked at Felix, Kagami and Marinette, with Odette trying to fit a large piece of cantaloupe into her mouth.
“This happened because Marinette felt bad?” Asked Adrien, fiddling with the Graham de Vanily rings.
“In all honesty, I’m not sure why they’re toddlers.” Shrugged Felix, as Kagami bounced Bubba on her knee.
Adrien bent down and picked Gabe up and frowned, “When were they created?”
Marinette frowned, “Mayura created Ode a year and a half ago, and Gabe, Al, Ni and Bubba were made a year or less ago.”
The four all stared at the toddlers, before the penny dropped.
“Holy shit.”
S
Marinette winced as her parents looked at Odette, Sabine was giving Marinette a quizzical look, while Ode pulled on Tom’s moustache.
“So, you were…cloned and you thought we’d adopt her?” Asked Sabine, as Marinette winced.
“Okay, I know that it sounds weird,” Said Marinette, “but I didn’t get pregnant, hide it from you and had a baby, without anyone knowing because that’d be impossible.”
“I think it’d be a bit more believable that a botched cloning incident.” Said Sabine, frowning, “But, if that’s what you want to tell us.”
“Maman, she’s a year and a half old, I was fourteen-fifteen then,” Argued Marinette, folding her arms, “I wouldn’t’ve been able to hide something like that from you.”
Sabine hummed, before looking at Odette, “There isn’t a birth certificate is there?”
“No, but Adrien said he’d look into it, since, er, Ode wasn’t the only one made.”
“Marinette,” Asked Sabine, slowly, “how many are there?”
“Including Ode?” Responded Marinette, “Five?”
S
Marinette watched Nino interact with Bubba and Shelly, the former Nino senti-monster. The rest of the class were milling around the room, while Al and Gabe were playing with some building blocks.
“It’s amazing that they have their own individual personalities.” Said Adrien, as Marinette fiddled with the tome.
“Maybe it’s because they’re now free, independent beings.” Suggested Marinette, flipping a page, “Ooh, Tòuguò pòsuì de jìngzi. That sounds promising.”
No one noticed the light red haze around Marinette and Adrien.
“What does?” Asked Alya, as she and Nino walked over to them, letting Bubba and Shelly play with the others.
“Tòuguò pòsuì de jìngzi.” Said Adrien, as the haze enveloped Nino and Alya, “It’s a spell in the tome.”
“Are you sure you should be using magic, girl?” Asked Alya, “Since the state Monarch left you in.”
“Su Han’s already checked, all the damage is practically gone.” Said Marinette, just before the haze flashed and the four vanished.
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ninadove · 2 years ago
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I don't know if you've ever talked/reflected on this but… have you ever thought about the idea of "souls" in Miraculous? I don't know, I was tormented by that a few nights ago because the very pointed and never dealt with in depth situation with the senti.
Obviously Felix thinks that they are ALL sentient creatures that deserve to live and "undoing" is equivalent to living but even writing this I'm talking about "creatures" not people which also means that I myself have a bias that the more human, the more "real" I see them.
Of course GabNat don't see them as more than tools but they very obviously think differently from the particular case of *Adrien* so I have to wonder if for them "intention" is what makes Adrien different, endowed with a soul so to speak. And LB is the heroine, in theory the bastion of morality, but, if I'm not mistaken, there is only one case in which she treat a senti as if they were a person worthy of having their own free will and they are sentibug, after that we have others (I'm thinking of sentibubble) and (although I understand that they had no way of freeing them and they have to stop them) they also don't spend a moment reflecting that they could be just as dignified.
I don't know, just all these mixed up ideas of what makes them "real" beyond a construct and that Felix thinks the mere idea of creation is enough, while the villains seem to think there are "exceptions" and I don't have no idea what the parameter of the heroine or Kagami for that matter would be.
I really want to hear your thoughts
OK, so I clicked publish before I even got a chance to write anything. Because I’m a genius. Anon I’m so sorry.
ANYWAYS you raise an excellent question, so I’m going to try my best to put my thoughts in order! 🦚
First of all, it seems Thomas Astruc himself differentiates between “human” Sentibeings and others:
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Which seems to imply different levels of sentience: for instance, Adrien is no different from any regular child, while Feast exhibits behaviours that are closer to an animal’s. Not that it makes abusing or destroying him acceptable in any way, but I don’t think we’re supposed to feel as much towards him as towards the Sentikids.
(I do. I feel all the feels for Feast. Feast is my baby boy and I will never stop mourning him.)
If intent is truly what determines a Senti’s level of sentience, then this raises many questions as to which ones were created with that objective in mind. And interestingly, it doesn’t actually seem to be tied to whether they look “human” or not.
Sentibug is the first Sentibeing that is explicitly shown to have a soul of her own. Mayura wanted her to be a perfect copy of Ladybug, and that backfired the second she got a hold of her own amok; she shares the heroine’s strong sense of justice, and immediately sided with her at the cost of her life.
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What does it mean for humanoid Sentis that were created after S3? Specifically, Senti-Gabriel and Senti-Bubbler? As far as I recall, they don’t get a chance to speak for themselves and express their own identity. If they were to be freed, would they act of their own volition or model their behaviour after their human counterpart? What would that mean for Felix, who was created out of jealousy over Adrien? Would Shadowmoth be able to create Sentibeings who simply look human, but are only granted a “lower” level of sentience to avoid a repeat of the Sentibug debacle?
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The more I’m writing, the more I hate the idea of nitpicking sentience levels. It feels like the exact same logic Gabriel, Tomoe or Colt would use to justify the way they (mis)treat their children.
Felix also rejects the idea of a sentience hierarchy — especially based on the Sentibeings’ appearance and ability to speak for themselves.
Strikeback looks absolutely terrifying — monstruous, even. There’s nothing remotely human about them; and yet, Felix feels heartbroken and guilty as he lets Ladybug yeet them into the Sun.
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Red Moon is also scary — in a stranger, more ominous, beautiful kind of way. An important feature about her is that she is unable to speak for herself; yet Argos still calls her his sister, and it is pretty clear from the way he interacts with her that she can understand him and experience emotions just as complex as his.
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From a purely doylist explanation — I think Sentis are whatever the writing team needs them to be in the moment. This was made extra clear with the creation and (probable) destruction of Once Upon A Time, so they could try something new in terms of storytelling:
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The play was very fun (read: tragic), don’t get me wrong, but I feel like the writers kind of got in their own way here.
The thing is — while the delivery isn’t the most consistent or satisfactory, you can tell that there is an intent to say something through the existence and treatment of Sentibeings.
Adrien, Felix and Kagami are, or course, child abuse survivors:
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But they are also extremely queer-coded:
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And very likely neurodivergent:
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I’m sure there’s a lot of other communities who can see themselves represented in these kids — the common thread between these demographics being that we know what it feels like to be othered.
How many queer people are being mistreated for being “too overtly gay, why can’t you just be normal about it”? Or rejected by their own community, based on arbitrary standards?
How many neurodivergent people are being treated as subhuman, simply because they do not have the capability to advocate for themselves? Or because they are disabled “in the wrong way”?
As for abuse survivors? The hard truth is that they aren’t always perfect victims, who automatically know how to behave healthily once they’re out of a bad situation — especially not when they are literal children, who have never experienced anything else in their lives. There are after-effects, wounds that might get infected if you don’t tend to them, behaviours to unlearn. And yes, the healing process can look ugly, but they deserve some grace — a chance to grow and make it right.
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Oftentimes, these biases come from figures of authority who are typically seen as “progressive”, or people who have the best intentions in the world — like Ladybug, who originally failed to see Sentis as human or even just sentient, unless they looked exactly like her.
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All that to say — the approach that I take when thinking or writing about Sentibeings is the same as Felix’s not taking the Once incident into consideration: that all Sentis are sentient, to the same level, until proven otherwise. Is it necessarily coherent with what has been shown on screen? Not really, but I think it’s truer to the intended message!
And because I’m not one to pass up an opportunity, have some Transmasc Felix Propaganda:
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kawaiichibiart · 9 months ago
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Reading Miraculous fanfics just about always reminds me how much I just can't stand the show anymore. Especially certain episodes:
Siren, Senti-Bubbler, whatever the episode Scarabella first showed up in was called, origins (yes, I mean both), the wax (?) statue episode, etc.
Like, given, I didn't like those episodes much when I actually liked the show, but still. Point stands.
Miraculous fucking sucks, coming from a Miraculous fan.
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is-nino-actually-luka · 2 years ago
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opinions on Mayor Chloé and how her politics might affect Nika?
Well as we all know, Shadowmoth has a desire to vicariously live through Nino, as seen by his use of senti nino, senti bubbler, and senti carapace. And we know that Monarch and Mayor Chloe have a backroom deal in exchange for giving her those miraculous powers.
My theory is that Gabriel wants to also become Nino, and change Nika to Luiniel, which is not very cool in my books
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pixels-miracle-box · 4 days ago
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Style Queen's Wrath AU
Kind of a continuation of this post.
I KNOW "Style Queen" is the name of Audrey's akuma form but I like this name so heck it- this will also be the name for Audrey's butterfly persona.
She found the butterfly brooch in a second hand store... something about it caught her attention even who she isn't the type to step foot in these types of stores.
I mainly made this post to talk about Adrien.
What if I made Adrien gay in this AU?
Also Marinette is a lesbian.
Adrien and Marinette are best friends. Though people always assume they're a couple (their parents included).
AU is gonna be end game Lukadrien. Still unsure who I want to pair with Mari.
Kwamis work a bit differently as they aren't fully bound to the miracle box. They're on a different plane of existence but can come into this world by forming a bond with a human (or any human adjacent creature, like a senti monster).
However, to return to said plane, they need to get fully dismissed by their holders. As you can guess, Nooroo's last holder didn't do so- and now he's in the hands of Audrey.
I mentioned them in the last post- however- I think it would be funnier in this AU if Kagami and Felix stayed as friends (they were both made by Colt in this AU [alongside Chloe], and they were specifically made to be together- and the most ironic thing would be these two not liking each other in that sense- they're civil and planning things together, but they're buddies).
Still deciding how I want to deal with Adrien and Luka. ATM I am considering having Luka have the bee miraculous (Pollen ends up choosing him), and also having Adrien tell Luka that he's Mister Bug. I may do the reveal before he gets Pollen-
I was thinking about Nino's akuma form (the Bubbler) having a fancy suit rather than being the canon Bubbler... only to remember that Gabriel isn't shitty in this AU and would def team up with Nino to make a great party for Adrien.
But yeah most akumas may end up looking like they're about to walk on the podium.
Adrien ends up seeing Tikki as a mother figure.
This AU's Plagg lives for the chaos, which is why he chose Chloe. Girl has pent up frustration that can easily be channeled into destruction.
Again if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.
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princess-of-the-corner · 10 months ago
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I think the only actual acknowledgment about the hypocrite identity rule is brought up during a nightmare in senti Bubbler, though I'm pretty sure we're supposed to take it as the writers mocking the complaint.
Chloe: To think that you've been lecturing us about blah, blah, blah, "you must keep your identity a secret," blah, blah, blah, "otherwise I can't give you your Miraculous." I would have made a much better Ladybug. Talk about a ridiculous Guardian, utterly ridiculous!
God can you fucking imagine if they actually like. Went with this? Like this is part of Marinette's guilt nightmare thing. What if she /did/ feel guilty and had to face that?
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miraculous-prompts · 2 years ago
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Non-Binary!Bubbler and Senti!Mireille prevent an assassination in Shanghai
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gale-gentlepenguin · 4 years ago
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What Alya said:
“This is kind of a two person plan, please wait until we get you”
What Alya meant.
“This is a super complicated situation and I have not a lot of time to explain, so please stand by until it’s done. Cause then you’ll be a big help. Thanks”
What Chat noir heard
“Ladybug doesn’t need you so get the f*** out loser.”
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monmiraculous · 4 years ago
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And Alya...
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We already knew that Shadow Moth would follow Alya more closer since Optygami...
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And now her friend, her family and her boyfriend...
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Who knows how she feels rn? She thinks the reason that's all happened is her?
"Was it a mistake?"
"Ladybug shouldn't have trusted her?"
What if she thinks that way ???
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noulovewithlou · 4 years ago
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"So what's my role, then? The guy who's always left in the dark?"
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