#senti adrien theory

[bobauthorman]

Idea concerning the 'Senti-Adrien' theory; Adrien finds out that he's a senti, or part senti, or whatever. Not wanting to be taken control of if someone gets his Amok, he decides to use Cataclysm on himself (Just a hair). Now, this doesn't cause him to go on a violent rampage like it does for Sentimonsters. Instead, it destroys the filter on his mouth, causing him to speak more candidly than he's ever been in his life.

[purrincess-chat]

EMOTION SPOILERS

I know a lot of people didn’t watch this episode because it’s out of order, and I respect that. BUT I noticed something I haven’t seen anyone talk about, so I’m gonna put all this under a cut. Only read if you’ve watched Emotion or if you don’t care about spoilers.

Okay, so this episode was packed with information if you know what you’re looking for. At this point, there is no denying the sentitheory. This episode all but confirms it, and it clues us in on another senti that hardly anyone has talked about. (I mean, I had suspicions, but anyway that’s besides the point). 

Kagami

This episode basically spells out that Kagami is a senti as well, but there is a key difference between her and Adrien: Kagami has her amok. 

In the scene when “Adrien” (Felix) enters the ball and greets Gabriel and the Tsurugis, he leans down to kiss Kagami’s hand, but stops short when he notices her ring. We know from Feast that the peacock can sense amoks if they’re by the object it’s contained in. We also know that Felix has the peacock Miraculous. It’s likely that he sensed she had an amok when he went to kiss her hand, which brings up something very sad when they talk about it later. 

I want to talk about the difference between Gabriel and Tomoe. Are both of them garbage? Yes. This post will in no way try to refute that. But I find it rather interesting (and also really sad) how Tomoe and Gabriel go about things with their children. And both of them are shitty. 

Let’s talk about Kagami. When she and Felix are sitting together alone, Felix comments that their parents are pulling their strings, and Kagami says this:

Kagami has her amok, or for all intents and purposes, her free will. She obeys her mother because she “chooses” to. Felix immediately challenges this notion by suggesting they run away since she has the option, but Kagami refuses because they have duties to perform. Which brings up my first point: Tomoe’s manipulation of Kagami is psychological. She handed Kagami the keys to her cage and said, “You can leave any time you want, but be warned, the outside world is dangerous. You’ll get hurt if you leave, so it’s better to just stay in your cage where it’s safe.” We learned in Perfection that she convinced Kagami that friendship leads to disappointment. That it’s honorable to do as you’re told. It’s what it means to be in this family. You want to be part of this family, right? Choice with a price, only the price is made up by the person in charge. Kagami can choose her own path, but her mother has basically made sure that any path other than the one she wants is as undesirable as possible to herd Kagami exactly where she wants. 

Contrast that with Adrien, whose manipulation is far more blatant

Gabriel literally controls Adrien with the ring. Adrien has no free will against his father. Whatever his father wants, he can make Adrien do. I find it interesting that Adrien tells Marinette in the end that he didn’t tell her because his dad asked him not to. We can connect the dots and understand that Gabe likely ordered Adrien not to tell her, and Adrien had no choice but to obey. 

Honestly, I can’t decide which one is worse. Tomoe for leaving the door open but doing everything she can to make sure Kagami never walks out of it, or Gabriel for never even giving Adrien a door to begin with. 

I also find Nathalie interesting in this episode on two fronts. At the ball when they’re waiting for Adrien to arrive, Gabe comments on how he wishes Adrien would just do what he’s told. Nathalie tries to pipe up that Adrien can love whoever he wants, but Gabriel won’t hear it. Then she mutters under her breath, “We’ll see about that” when Gabriel essentially admits he will use force to make Adrien give up on Marinette if he has to. Gabriel is only interested in serving his interests and doesn’t care what anyone else wants. Nathalie, as we’ve seen this season, wants to protect Adrien (particularly from Gabe) and wants him to be happy. Adrien also told her all about Marinette in an earlier episode and how much he loves her. Nathalie knows how important Marinette is to him.

I also think the interaction between Nathalie and Amelie is very poignant. Amelie chastises Nathalie for being complacent in Gabriel’s madness, and Nathalie tells her, “I don’t have a choice.” But Amelie shoots back that there is always a choice. I think more than anything this season, Nathalie is seeing through the glamour and waking up to the horrible reality with Gabriel. He used and manipulated her too. But I think that her saying she doesn’t have a choice here is referring to her not wanting to abandon Adrien. She doesn’t have a choice but to stick around and help because it’s the only way she can protect Adrien. If she leaves, she knows Gabriel will abuse Adrien’s amok, but I’m curious to see what Nathalie cooks up after Amelie’s remarks. It screams that she’s going to betray him eventually. Perhaps Amelie and Felix will be part of the plan? I’m not sure, but I think these little hints are interesting (also sad).

[vividaway]

I'm gonna be the odd person out and say it: I really like Felix as a character. I think he’s one of the only characters in the show to have a proper introduction that wasn’t pushed out in a single episode. Everything we learn about Felix, to me, feels genuine and realistic to meeting a manipulative person. I also think that's why Felix is hated as much as he is: because you’re not SUPPOSED to like him. Felix as a character is very very dynamic. He lies and he cheats and he does it all with a straight face. He continuously hurts people around him no matter his intentions. and yet, there’s a piece of him that still holds his morals. We saw a glimpse of it in Strike Back, and again in Emotion.  He comes off as a very smart kid, and the writers have hoisted him up to be very ahead of everyone else. Everything he does is done with an intention in mind and it’s something his mother is aware of. They both helped introduce the rings, and the storyline of senti-monsters existing as living human children was made canonical THROUGH him. 

There's still so much we don't know about Felix and his family, though. We know  Amelie is an aristocrat, but through whom? Felix’s father, Colt, was an American billionaire and yet they all lived in London? How come? Both when and why were the Vanily twin rings created, and what’s the significance to THEM? (We have a general understanding of what they’re used for....but what do Amelie and Felix want it so badly?)

A lot of people are discounting a lot of what Felix said in emotion, too, but I personally think it’s very telling. Consider this: Gabriel Agreste has an ‘unconditional love’ for his wife (I see u Gabe, that is NOT love!) and watched her slowly die. Most days are spent isolating himself from everybody but his work staff. Soon, even they started to turn against him. He tried to do everything he could to protect his son, even to the point of abusing him because he was so blindsided by not just his wife’s ailment, but through a true commitment to the “rich and luxurious lifestyle” we see displayed in Emotion. There’s a reputation, AND an expectation that comes with it, and he TRULY believe’s it’s “the right thing” when in actuality, it isn’t. Gabriel has not just become numb to the reality of “being a normal person” but he’s more focused on bringing his wife back to him, and fixing his family. And even after all that? He’s still dying. He knows what he’s going to subject his son to. What he’s asking of Nathalie. He TRULY lost everything to get the miraculous he has. But Felix? Why would Felix say he’s lost everything? We know he lost his father, and we know he’s lost his morals, but a big piece of me is screaming that this is NOT what he meant. So what DID he mean? We know the connection of the Senti-Monsters and his desire to free them. We’re starting to understand that, in his own way, he’s ATTEMPTING to free Adrien and Kagami in the process. But what else could there be? My point in all of this is to say, there are SO MANY QUESTIONS LEFT UNANSWERED. So many that FEEL valuable to the plot of the show. The more we see of Felix, the more I reckon back to Timetagger episode where Gabriel found out he wasn’t going to be HawkMoth anymore. SO many people thought Lila, and even criticized how bad it would be because she was introduced too fast and set up so poorly.........so why NOT Felix? 

He was introduced as an antagonist who wants, not to fulfill his own emotional needs (I.E, Chloe and Lila) but sheerly to get Ladybug and Chat Noir’s miraculous. The lines “I’m after a few jewels myself” could have easily been a red herring and wasn’t mentioning the rings at ALL, especially with the way Felix gave the rings back at the end of said episode. As mentioned previously, Felix’s desire to free Adrien would make sense as to why Felix would take on the role as HawkMoth. Felix wants to make his own wish, and he’s got nothing left to lose. Pairs nicely with Nathalie, doesn’t it? 

[nothingtherefornow]

I wholefully agree ith all you said T^T This is such a beautifull analysis

I think my favorite thing about sentiadrien and the sentikids theory is that at its core, it's a lesson about being kind to those who are different from us and that even with those differences they are still worthy of being loved and heard. Being a senti doesn't make Adrien any less worthy of our love and time, it doesn't make us relate to him less. He's still our little sunshine boy, and I really like that.

We got to see him rebel and fight back in little ways. We saw him experience all these firsts and learn what it means to love and be loved. We watched him be happy and sad and angry and frustrated. We see him feel the way we feel sometimes, we see him be real. And we are going to see so much more.

We get to see him be human, and it's great because it reminds us that even though he is "different" he is still one of the most human of all the characters on the show.

[cu-sketcher]

We’re the same, aren’t we-

Adrien and Felix fanart

[faiirygrahamdevanily]

🚘tatsu the car might be a senti here's why:

🚘that car is simply too independent to be possible

🚘if it were an actual car, then why is tomoe gatekeeping that innovative car technology? why is her rich friend group still using regular cars with drivers?

🚘the amok might be in the seats, seatbelt or somewhere you automatically touch as a passenger so that you can speak your command and tatsu can obey

🚘gabriel saying "adrien noo!!" = kagami saying "tatsu let's go" which matches the theme of saying a sentis name followed by your command

🚘credits to this twitter post for the idea

🚘🦚argos being tatsus least favorite passenger post here

[ck2k18]

"adrien isnt a sentimonster hes a real boy!" dude nobody is denying that he's a real boy. we're just saying he was made from a feather. now if you wanna say "adrien isn't a sentimonster he came from gabes ball sack" then you'd have an argument.

[ibecameobsessedwmlb]

Do sentimonster marinette fics exist? I kinda wanna fuck around and find out.

[heart-of-the-morningstar]

Everyone joking about Senti-Adrien in season 3 but then season 5 airs and it turns out it’s probably true

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

I’m personally a bit mixed on the senti-kid stuff.

I like it in concept because I’m a big fan of angst and existential horror, especially involving the “am I really a human/person? Am I a monster?” character arcs. Then you add in the horror of “they can have their free will taken away incredibly easily” (and be killed at someone’s whim) and that adds a whole other layer. I know that’s part of why a lot of people don’t like it, but I like the angst stuff a lot.

Having said that, I am still on the fence about it, because as much as I like the aforementioned reasons, I really hate how it was handled narratively. They do address the “can be killed easily” part a little, with Sentibug and Felix, but I think they don’t expand much on it, and don’t really stay consistant with it (like how they treat other sentis- LB controlling Sentibubbler, for example).

But the most glaring part of it for me is: having Adrien be a senti feels more like yet another reason for them to take him out of a significant action role in the story. They already did this with Chat Blanc: “oh he can’t know his dad is Hawkmoth bc he’ll destroy the world!” Then again with Ephemeral, though this time with the obvious use of the amok (Gabriel twisting the ring as he akumatized him). S5 shows him using it more and more, and has the finale with him still in control of the main villain, making it incredibly risky for Adrien to even have the Miraculous. Astruc and other fans can talk all they want about how feather kids are just magical IVF babies, and while I agree that they are human still, it blatantly ignores that having them be controlled by someone that dangerous makes them a huge risk, even if they get their amok (which is why I think there should have been some way to at least break them free of the control aspect, even if not their lives being tied to an object). (It’s also incredibly scary for the senti kid themselves.) Someone whose free will can be taken away so easily can’t be trusted with one of the most powerful objects in the world. It’s harsh, but powers like these, despite how they’re treated sometimes, can’t just be given out like candy to anyone, they need to be given selectively and carefully. Something like this can’t just be put in the hands of someone who isn’t even in full control of themselves. That’s so much responsibility to have. The narrative gave us two huge reasons that the narrative gave us for why Adrien can’t be a part of defeating his father and isn’t fit for the miraculous: 1) he’ll destroy the world, 2) he can be magically controlled and they can’t do anything about it. Why are they trying so hard to come up with reasons for why one of their main characters shouldn’t be in the role they gave him? The senti story would fit far better if Adrien wasn’t Chat Noir- I’ve read a lot of fics where things do work out, but they usually always take it in a direction that the show wouldn’t (in terms of story style and episode outline), so I don’t really think it can be successful in a canon style (though fic writers always surprise me, so I’m happy to be proven wrong).

That’s not even bringing up how Adrien’s arc was all about him obeying his father because he wants approval, not bc of magic, which… I guess can be explained away by Gabriel acting on the assumption that they made him perfect, therefore he doesn’t need to be controlled (like why Tomoe let Kagami keep her amok), but they don’t really address that on the Agreste side- how far is Gabriel willing to go? Why is he using it more now? Did Emilie use his amok? What for and why? Did the couple have a discussion beforehand? There’s just too much left open for the giant hole they created.

Sorry if this came off as ranty, but I wanted to share my thoughts as someone who does like the senti plotline, but still has frustrations with the show’s writing quality and inability to pull it off.

In another show, the sentikid stuff would have been amazing, so I don't fault anyone for liking the concept! It's a fantastic setup for a dark and twisted take on the genres that Miraculous is playing with. I could easily see that more serious show being considered a sort of sister show to Madoka Magica in terms of what it's trying to do.

The problem is that Miraculous isn't Madoka Magica. It's not trying to be a dark fantasy for teens and adults. It's trying to be a rom-com for little kids and the sentikid plotline has no place in a rom-com for little kids. It's way too serious for many of the reasons that you brought up.

For me, the biggest one is probably this point:

Someone whose free will can be taken away so easily can’t be trusted with one of the most powerful objects in the world.

Because sentimonsters do not have true free will, Adrien is a massive liability who should never be trusted with a miraculous. The risk is simply too great. He should also never be with Marinette or anyone else whose job is high stakes as he's a massive liability to them. A perfect sleeper agent who could be commanded to fool everyone until it's too late.

Great stuff if you like psychological horror, terrible stuff if you're here to see the power of love and friendship triumph over all!

There's also the issue of when the sentitwist was introduced. Madoka Magica goes from classic magical girl team show to psychological horror within the first few episodes, which is perfectly reasonable. Shows often take a few episodes to establish their tone. Miraculous doesn't introduce the sentikid stuff until season four, well over 24 hours into the show's runtime, way too late for a massive tone shift!

Add in the issues with how the sentitwist is used to downplay Gabriel's abuse and Adrien's reactions to it and, yeah, this was not a good move. I have no idea how the writing team got the higher ups to approve this twist. I'm still stunned that Disney okayed it.

I do think that Miraculous could have kept its lighthearted nature and done the sentitwist, but it would have required the sentikids to have a way to truly break free. After all, Pinocchio is a children's story and it has similar elements, but we didn't get Pinocchio. Instead we got Ephemeral, the episode where our hero stared his love in the eyes and doomed the world because he is totally incapable of being her hero when someone else has even one of his rings. That isn't a love story. It's a tragedy.

[ninadove]

Anyway! Maybe you guys didn’t know this about me, but I love the Sentimonster Theory Canon. I really do. Crazy, I know!

I think if people picked up on it so early, it might be because it was planned from beginning. But I also think it shouldn’t matter, because a writing team who is ready to make changes to their story to make it more meaningful is doing a great job.

I think it ties the entire plot and themes of the show together, and tells a wonderful story about overcoming child abuse through the power of love (always so strong). I think it was crafted specifically for people who have felt othered their entire lives; I think it gave us representation (AH) we may never have gotten anywhere else, and that it is especially important that this narrative is available to young fans, who make up Miraculous’ core audience. I think it means something to people.

I think our fandom niche is small, but filled with people from all horizons, with the craziest, coolest, most diverse ideas. It is home to some of the most talented artists and writers I know, who I am proud to call my friends; it inspires others to be bold, to grab their pen or watercolours or laptop, and create something of their own for the first time.

I think Felix deserves to be a hero and Adrien deserves to go apeshit. I think Kagami deserves to be adored. I think their story isn’t perfect. I think it is a wonderful work of love.

I think you should tag your salt.

[nixthelapin]

The ML writers were really telling us Kagami is a senti and her amok is in her family ring (and having her mom go nuclear on Gabriel for putting an akuma in it) as if her first episode back in season 2 didn’t have her be akumatized with that exact ring and she was completely fine when it was broken.

[gameguy20100]

Can I just say that I hate how every time Adrien shows a symptom of being abused (hesitating to disobey Gabriel. Having to talk himself into doing what he wants, freezing up, etc) people always say "OH Sentimonster"

Seriously, people get a grip.

Do you have any idea how frustrating it is to watch a child act almost exactly the way you did at that age due to an abusive parent and have people say "This is clear evidence this boy is not human and has no free will."

Please tell me you do. I want to have some faith in our species.

[billiejean485]

.... Well.

Looks like I'm leaving Miraculous for good.

Or at least until the whole SentiAdrien arc is out - which will probably take years.

This was my last hope.

Or... maybe my true last hope is that the arc won't end in a sh*tty way.

But I am really overall disappointed with the franchise. What was a promising great love story... turned into an overcomplicated mess.

I wish I never laid my eyes on this.... TV trash.

... And don't expect I'll be back with my fanfic in any near, or not that far future.

My heart is just done with this.

... Hurts like hell to lose one of your favorite TV charas.

... R.I.P... (human) Chat Noir. 😞

[causalityparadoxes]

Colt used the Peacock to create Felix. Later he became sick from using it and died. Felix has 1 alive parent and is confirmed as a senti.

Emelie used the Peacock to create Adrien. She became sick and died. Adrien has 1 alive parent (for now lol) and is implied to be a senti

Kagami's father is never shown and iirc never mentioned. Kagami has 1 confirmed alive parent and is implied to be a senti.

Chloé's parents, Audrey and André, are both alive and accounted for.

Zoe's father 'Mr. Lee' has never been seen but was mentioned in Sole Crusher. So he's probably alive too.

Imo? Everyone who used the broken peacock miraculous is now dead. Zoe and Chloe probably arent sentis. And one of Tomoe's motives for helping Gabe is bringing back her spouse who died after using the Peacock miraculous.

[mangasstuffcomics]

Full thread about sentimonsters first Thomas astruc own words a sentimonster created to be human is human not a sentibeing not senti human just human Felix Adrien kagami are as real as any other human in the show just created. Magically instead of in the normal way

Sentimonsters can die of old age depending on what they are created to be

And Sentimonsters can get pregnant and or get someone pregnant

Because a sentimonster created to e human human Felix kagami Adrien are as human as ajy other character in the series

There could have been sentimonsters in ancient Greece

Just making this clear because of idiots trying to claim that Adrien Felix kagami aren't human or fake humans which no there as real as any other human in the series just more fragile

And the adrienette children from protection

Adding this from the mlb Bible