#remember when Adrien being a senti was just a theory

[ibecameobsessedwmlb]

Do sentimonster marinette fics exist? I kinda wanna fuck around and find out.

[piromina]

HELLO MIRACULOUS FANDOM

if u are part of the miraculous fandom PLS DO NOT SCROLL PAST THIS.

I'll try to keep this message short enough, but if you don't want to be really confused in season 6, READ THIS. (and yes there will be pictures)

Do you remember the episode Representation? Of course you do. It was probably one of the best episodes imo. We got some feligami, adrien fighting his father (only to end up in solitary confinement afterwards but forget that), and, of course, confirmation to a very popular fan theory.

HOWEVER. that fan theory is something I need to talk about.

Don't worry, yes, I still do believe that adrien, félix and kagami are all sentis, that is not what the purpose of this message is. Please keep reading.

do you remember him? yes. this is félix. impersonating his shitty father, colt. in this scene , 'colt' is using the peacock miraculous to create a son.

in this scene, the amok is very clearly going into the ring félix has on at all times.

But what, in the entire representation play, has not been shown once?

Émelie using the peacock. Émelie putting the amok into Adrien's rings. Émelie creating a son.

This play is Félix's story, not Adrien's.

Yes, adrien is a sentimonster, but that was never shown here once. Yes, there were peacock feathers in the background of Émelie being pregnant, and yes, Gabriel called Adrien a miracle.

But those were just hints for the audience.

In this scene, here is what 'Gabriel' was saying.

After much study, I have discovered a solution for you and your wife.

This is making it sound like he has just now discovered the peacock miraculous. We as the audience, of course, know that he's lying.

But who was this play meant for, other than us as the all-knowing viewers?

Marinette Dupain-Cheng. The only in-universe audience member. And let's not forget that this is her very first exposure to the Agreste and Graham de Vanily family history and the senti lore. She doesn't know what we do.

Marinette, upon hearing Gabriel's lie, had no reason to believe he or émelie used the peacock to create Adrien. Marinette, upon hearing Gabriel's lie, had no reason to believe that after Colt created félix, he stole back the peacock miraculous. Marinette, upon watching this play, had no reason to believe that Adrien is a sentimonster, or that the Graham de Vanily rings are significant in any way.

"But then why did she give them back to Adrien?" It's what would have made him happy. It's what Gabriel wanted. It's the last thing she could find in there that Gabriel owned. It's the last known piece of the Agreste family.

Marinette Dupain-Cheng has no reason to believe that Émelie used the peacock. In fact, Émelie only appears in this play four times, once as the curious princess, once living a bohemian life with the tailor, once being pregnant, and once giving birth.

And the Graham de Vanily rings? Only when her parents attached them to her necklace, and then as she was getting married! Marinette thinks those are just simple wedding bands, like her parents'!

And now, to recap, this is what everyone knows:

Us, the viewers:

Adrien, Félix, and Kagami are sentimonsters. Gabriel found the miraculous while in Tibet, along with the butterfly. Then, he gave it to Émelie, and she used it to create Adrien, putting the amok in the wedding bands. Afterwards, Gabriel gave the miraculous to Colt, who made Félix, as shown in the play. And, somehow, the peacock found its way over to Kagami's family (possibly her father?) who used it to create her, and put the amok in the ring she wears.

Marinette:

Félix is a sentimonster. Gabriel found the miraculous somewhere (probably Tibet, as that's where it was lost, possibly along with the butterfly). Then, he gave it to Colt in an act of sympathy (strange, those must have been nicer times), but of course not without making a trade. Afterwards, Colt used the peacock to create Félix, and then somehow Gabriel got it back and used it to become Shadowmoth.

Marinette doesn't know that Adrien is a sentimonster.

Reblog to spread the word.

[ilikekidsshows]

Do you think there's anything prior to s4 that foreshadowing Adrien status as senti?

---

To put it simply, Anon: fuck no. I think there are a couple of coincidences the people who liked the theory latched onto and that they used to retroactively justify the writers’ lies that it was the intention all along. All of this stuff has another explanation. Adrien is allergic to feathers? No other Sentimonster is. Adrien and Sentibug both get called “perfect”? “Perfect” is a perfectly common word that suits a lot of situations perfectly. Adrien ads use a lot of feathers? They’re fucking white, Adrien has a recurring angel motif and anyone claiming otherwise is blind to patterns. Adrien does what Gabriel tells him to even when he doesn’t want to? HE’S BEING ABUSED BY THAT MAN. Why else would Emilie use the Peacock Miraculous when it killed her? Because she's an entitled rich asshole who thought she was above consequences. If Miraculous wanted to make “eat the rich” commentary, that's what they should have done. SentiAdrien also required reworking the Sentimonster lore to make the heroes killing them en masse okay.

What is far more compelling than the defenses of SentiAdrien is the fact that, after the long hiatus between seasons 3 and 4, Gabriel's body language changed completely, just like if something about his character had been changed. Gabriel used to hold tightly clenched fists behind his back, symbolizing his tight grasp on things he wants to control, especially his emotions. From the first episode of season four onward, almost like the writers couldn't contain themselves from including a new, fresh idea they’d had, Gabriel is suddenly constantly toying with this wedding ring, twisting it around like he's a neurodivergent kid and that ring is his favorite fidget toy.

Look, I know Miraculous gets a lot of flack for inconsistencies, but, like, some stuff is consistent. All the main characters used to have their own ways of moving. Adrien would pat people's shoulders, Marinette would wave her arms around, Gabriel would very rarely sit if he could get away with standing and he would clench his fists. These were simple, easy to remember ticks that strengthened the characterization. Adrien longs for human connections, Marinette is anxious and hyperactive and Gabriel never lets down his guard. In season 4, Gabriel's body language is suddenly: “Is Adrien a Sentimonster controlled by this ring? Come on, theorists, post about the theory a lot and do our marketing for us!”

The only explanation for Gabriel’s sudden change in body language is one of the writers had a tumblr when the theory got popular and got super excited to include this new idea as quickly and obviously as possible.

There’s also the fact to consider that the Miraculous crew has a very particular way of writing mysteries: they don’t. A mystery is a compelling question and “is” is not a compelling question. Basically the same rules apply as when picking a driving question for your essay: who, what, how, why and when are all good questions that will give you plenty to chew over while building your thesis. Yes or no questions, on the other hand, should be avoided at all costs, because the act of asking a yes or no question often already reveals the answer and ignores anything actually interesting about the phenomenon being studied.

I’m gonna be honest: when I first watched Miraculous, I had no idea Hawk Moth’s identity was supposed to be a mystery. I thought the answer was obvious on purpose because we were meant to wonder about the how and why. But, no, the why gets revealed as soon as the show confirms Gabriel is, indeed, Hawk Moth, because there’s so much focus on Emilie. There is only one possible thing Gabriel could want with the Miraculous, with no other options being presented to keep things interesting. Similarly, the show never asks: “Who is Hawk Moth?” because only one option is ever seriously presented with no other options being presented to keep things interesting. The question is: “Is Gabriel Hawk Moth?” and the answer is: “Yes, of course, because it couldn’t be anyone else.”

When you look at it in hindsight, this is also how the “Sentipeople” mystery gets presented to us. The only question the show asks about Sentimonsters and it asks it instantly at the start of season 4 is: “Is Adrien a Sentimonster?” and, like, the only answer is yes, because otherwise it wouldn’t get asked. However, the question is presented in a way that's only grasped by people already thinking along those lines, like Gabriel playing with his ring because it's now all of a sudden an Amok, which is why many people who weren't already convinced by the fan theory dismissed it. There are also no red herrings in this “mystery”, because every character to get any hint at them being a Sentimonster is revealed to be one. The Miraculous crew can’t write mysteries, so the existence of human Sentimonsters became obvious for the people already thinking along those lines as soon as they decided to include it.

This means, that, if this plotline was written for people who already thought SentiAdrien was a thing, the writers knew there were people thinking SentiAdrien was a thing. I'm saying the idea totally got taken from the fandom. And it's not surprising that the idea is stolen; Astruc's main character is a poor man's copy of the protagonist of the Dork Diaries book series, after all.

[theerurishipper]

Your reblog about the senti thing make me LOLing so hard because of the senti defender when shoved a fact that contradict their theory mostly act like "Yeah, I didn't think that far" except they never said it out loud!

I remember when s4 still airing and these senti defender said "senti lives matter!" But whenever I ask, "what about that lolipop thing? Feast? Senti Moth?" They always said "They don't have the same level of intelligence as senti human, probably only at the level of animal"

So basically they said it's ok to kill a senti as long as they either don't looks like human or they have low intelligence. This came from the same people who preach that sentimonster is a good methapor for abuse or disabilities.

In the end it boil down to "if hero kill it, it's good but if villain kill it, it's bad" double standard and I couldn't even fathom what so good about the whole sentimonster!human thing except to make an obedient puppet.

"Yeah, hope Chat can have a upgrade power that could destroy the connection between amok and the senti" they said. Except he already did. TA said in his tweet the reason why Reflekdoll or any senti that gone berserk due to the cataclysm is /exactly/ because the connection was destroyed. It didn't free them, it make them berserk. And ironically, this tweet also what make people think the reason why Chat Blanc is so feral is because half of his amok got destroyed, instead of the long isolation and guilt that eat him.

Also a so called child psychologist preach the whole sentimonster is good methapor for abuse thing make me facepalmed, hard. Why need methapor if it's so obvious? Is miraculous going to put on disclaimer : Attention, no real child is being harmed here. Why take the whole abuse theme if they're not going to do it correctly? Who the heck approved this kind of theme??

Sorry for the long rant and thank you for reading my incoherent rant.

You said it, anon.

The Sentimonster theory is a shitty metaphor for abuse or disability. What it says to me is that if your disability isn't convenient or "normal," then you don't matter. Hence the "human" Sentimonsters like Adrien, Felix and Kagami who can fit into society are accepted, but the other Sentimonsters are disposable, despite them having the same amount of sentience and life as any of the human ones.

So Senti lives matter, but only if they're a particular type of Senti. If not, then they're not really alive and can be disposed of without a single thought spared to them (even though that's not true, because Felix treated Red Sun like a sister, and Feast, Sentibubbler, etc. clearly had emotions). Which means... only socially acceptable Senti rights matter. The rest of them only exist to be killed by the heroes. The heroes get to decide which Sentis matter and which ones don't, and the only ones that matter to them are the ones that look like them.

And like... if you're going to have an arc about making us understand that these creatures are just like us and have a life and emotions of their own, then don't create classes and divisions between them from the get-go. Don't portray some of them as more worthy than the others. Nothing in the show suggests that the creation of Adrien, Felix or Kagami was in any way different from the creation of Feast or any other Sentimonster. The argument that they are different because they were created to be humans is also bogus, because of Sentibug. She was created not to be a human, but to be a copy of Ladybug, yet she still had free will. All the justifications for this theory fall apart if we think about it for more than 5 seconds.

And the whole Chat Blanc thing you mentioned is part of a larger problem in this fandom, which involves attributing common reactions to abuse in abuse victims to them being artificially created beings. Adrien listens too much to his father? It must be because he's a Sentimonster and is being controlled, not because Gabriel has conditioned him to be subservient to him all his life! They are literally saying victims of abuse and their reactions to abuse are "unnatural," and can only happen if they weren't human at all. I despise this implication, especially since the show doubled down on it.

And it's not like this was a necessary writing choice. What does Adrien being a Sentimonster contribute to his's character? What did the revelation that he's being mind-controlled help us understand about him? What new facet to his character did we learn about? Nothing, really. There is no exploration of what Adrien being a Sentimonster means for him. He doesn't even find out about it. The only reason Adrien became a Sentimonster is so that the writers could justify leaving him out of the finale and so that they could have an obstacle for Adrienette. And I will say, introducing the whole "Sentimonsters deserve free-will" plot point and then using the characters' Senti status as an excuse to deprive them of agency in their own battles is... certainly a choice.

The Sentimonster theory isn't this groundbreaking exploration of the concept of humanity and free-will, nor is it this subversive metaphor for something that was already being portrayed blatantly in the show. It's something the writers used as a plot device to justify removing the three most plot relevant characters from the story so that Marinette could have the finale to herself. That's it. There's nothing more to it than that.

Which is why the concept is so poorly developed. The whole Senti rights thing is brought for about five minutes in Emotion and maybe two minutes in Pretension. After this, Felix, the main advocate for Senti rights himself falls back on all his ideals and creates a Sentimonster to use and then kill. The heroes have spent three seasons killing these livings creatures without a single care in the world. The moral implications of this are never questioned in any way, even though the show pretends it's presenting this thoughtful and nuanced commentary on the matter. No one cares about Sentimonsters. Sentibug is presented as this big deal, but they don't think about her for more than five seconds and then she is never brought up again. Sentimonsters do not matter in this show. Not to the villains, not to the heroes, not even those who start of advocating for them stick to that cause. The narrative doesn't care about Sentimonsters. Any justification made for it just paints in a worse light. It's a shitty metaphor for anything, and it's just a shitty plot point in general.

Thank you for your ask!

[10-dutchies-12-bicycles]

the fuck you MEAN Lila’s hair is a wig?!

- a person who refuses to go back to watching mlb but is still curious about the wackassery of it all

OK SO BASiCALLY

LILA IS ACTUALLY SOME KIND OF SECRET IDENTITY OF THIS GIRL CALLED CERISE WHO ACTUALLY HAS SHORT HAIR. SHE HAS LIKE A PIXIE CUT

She just puts on a wig and contact lenses for the lila persona or some shit. also she has a ton of wigs and colored contacts like shes in some kinda spy thriller shes insane shes constantly like undercover as like 5 different ppl idk

also she has two moms??? or like. lila rossi's mom and the Second (Secret) Mom??? (who uses sign language!! neat! :3) and i dont think lila rossis mom knows about her REAL(????) mom (sign language mom) but sign language mom knows abt lila rossi mom which makes me slightly concerned that lila/cerise stole the identity of the REAL lila rossi like a decade ago and has been living as a lila rossi stand-in for the past 10 years after she buried the body idfk lol (joke theory. not an actual theory. but lets just say that the fact that this "lila killed someone and stole their identity" theory is semi-believable is already enough to show how bonkers season 5 was)

but yea she just disguises herself like Constantly and turns out lila rossi was just one of her evil spy personas. she also has an evil spy basement lair with like hacking equipment or sth. and she used Remote Spy Manipulation (an earpiece and strategic wording lmfao) to manipulate chloe into becoming the mayor of paris for like a week. chloe then proceeded to sicc robot cops on everyone's asses

also also after gabriel kicked the bucket and went to heaven together with emelie or whatever the fuck nooroo's miraculous was lost (it fell into the water at the bottom of gabriel's evil basement) but its revealed at the end of the finale that surprise surprise! cerise/lila/weirdospygirl has the brooch and will presumably be the big bad for the foreseeable future. IF she survives being possessed or some shit. idk she got attacked by a white light or sth and she was like "GASP D:" and then the season ended ¯\_(:/)_/¯ 

other fun things that happened this season:

adrinette ACTUALLY CANON (NO YEA FOR REAL) ok ok so basically. at the start of s5 marinette gets a crush on chat noir and adrien crushes on marinette instead of ladybug. eventually marinette allows herself to love adrien again and adrinette slowly get together like halfway thru s5 or sth. everyone ships it. and no. they do NOT know each others secret identities :')

luka knows the identities of both chat noir and ladybug as established in... season 4...? iirc? unfortunately halfway thru s5 gabriel figured out that luka knows so luka fled the country and went on a fun father-son-crocodile bonding trip (so like. with jagged stone, penny, and fang) to become tibetan monks. under the guidance of master fu's superior who we got introduced to last season (one of the monks who were like magically frozen in stone for 150 years or whatever)

tikki and plag biblically accurate angels confirmed. they can combine into ANOTHER biblically accurate angel called gimmi. gimmi granted gabriel his wish and now the world ended, gabriel is dead, etc etc adrinette lives happily ever after or sth

oh yea also felix kagami and adrien are sentimonsters. if you remember last year on twitter when thomas astruc swore up and down that senti!adrien theory was bullshit? yea so. he lied. he played a longcon. felix and kagami are in a relationship and both know that theyre sentis but adrien is like,,,, VERY HEAVILY FUCKING IMPLIED to also be a sentimonster except he doesnt know that yet. rip adrien. i think marinette knows abt kagami and felix being sentimonsters!??!?!?!??!? it was a VERY confusing scene like felix and kagami explained it to marinette thru interpretative dance T_T

OH YEA ALSO ladybug (fused w the cat miraculous. i forgot what name she gave herself) WAIT NO. BUGNOIR OR SOMETHING. ok so bugnoir fought hawk SHIT NO shadowmoth one-on-one and discovered he was gabriel and also saw his evil lair and emilie in the fridge coffin yanno. but yea adrien doesnt know. gabriel died and paris assumes he was the hero who defeated haw-SHADOWMOTH and adrien thinks so too. marinette is i think? the only one who knows gabriel was the big bad. aside from lila/cerise bc she knows everything with her stupid evil spy skills 🙄 oh yea lila also got a hold of all of gabriels secret files, including his photocopies of the grimoire

ON THAT NOTE gabriel was suuuppeerrr manipulatively nice to adrien this season and nathalie came SOOOOO SO SO SOOO CLOSE to throttling him on like at LEAST 5 occasions bc she cares for adrien more than she does for gabriel and she was SO gaslight gatekeep girlboss this season it was great like shes a few hours away from dying herself and she STILL tried to shoot gabriel with a crossbow lmao

[nahblubunny]

It would be a bit strange if season 5 is mostly just gonna be about fan-based theories/ideas, but I have noticed that prior to Cat(Chat) Blanc, the fanfics I’d kind of write for Miraculous would eventually come to play in the series, or a similarity would come to play.

Ex:

1)The Mayor got akumatized into ‘Obedience’(I don’t remember what I called him) because Chloe did something that upset him-Mayor got akumatized into Malidictator because Chloe and her mother did something that upset him to where he wanted to keep them in the city.

2)[not really written fanfic, this is posted on my Insta]Marinette and Cat Noir are dating and Alya knows about Marinette being a) In a relationship with Cat Noir and b) That Marinette is Ladybug. But Alya doesn’t know that Cat Noir is Adrien or that Cat Noir doesn’t know that she’s Ladybug.-Marinette tells Alya that she’s Ladybug to have someone to confide in/That brief moment where LadybugMarinette knew Adrien was Cat Noir but Cat Noir didn’t know that Marinette was Ladybug.

3)Lila’s name wasn’t actually Lila, she just uses that name to kind of remember her sister whom she had lost a few years back due to family trauma-Lila isn’t Lila(idk her actual name yet)

4)Ladybug got a Lucky Charm that was a Camera but they had to record who they were because there wasn’t a way they weren’t gonna get hit by the Akuma where they were gonna switch lives and needing Misterbug’s lucky charm to turn them back-Ladybug gets a camera but it’s to see that Animator(that episode where Thomas was Akumatized) freeze when nobody is looking

5)[this is kind of on my YT]Luka finding out about LB and CN’s secret identities-He finds them out in Wishmaker

The thing about number 1 though, is that I never posted that fanfic. I’m sure there were a few others that I hadn’t posted and they came to relevance in the show, but I don’t have the device I had these fanfics on.

I’m also hoping that they fix the animations or even the storyline if season 5 because kwamii’s choice pt2 really needs some work. The story was great and some of the clips were amazing, but come on. The way Adrien isn’t even Adrien anymore is… they really should’ve planned it out a little better with their new idea of Adrien being a senti, like show a bit more in the first or second season him falling to commands when Gabriel has the rings, not halfway through the show after his cousin comes into the picture. Honestly.

With all the talk of whether or not the show's crew is stealing ideas from fans, this brings up a question:

What do you think should be the limit where we go from "this is just the show naturally progressing" to "they're blatanly stealing ideas froms fans"?

I would say when stuff gets too specific. For example: turtle Nino could be a coincidence. Both the design and name used being nearly identical (though for separate characters) after admitting to reading that fanfic is stretching it. So like, basic ideas can be similar, the implementation and actualization needs to be unique.

[immaturityofthomasastruc]

I remember when early season 3 was airing and the theory of one of the main cast (Adrien) being a sentimonster was ridiculous utterly ridiculous

Now it's like:

YOU'RE A SENTIMONSTER(?)!

YOU'RE A SENTIMONSTER!

EVERY(rich kid)'S A SENTIMONSTER

(As good of a theory that Zoe is a sentimonster, I feel like it would just pave the path for MORE rich kids to turn out being senti and make that plot line less interesting)

Adrien: *points to Felix* He’s a Sentimonster, *points to Zoe* she’s a Sentimonster, *points to Kagami* you’re a Sentimonster, I’M A SENTIMONSTER! Are there any other Sentimonsters I should know about?

Chloe: Adrikins~

Adrien: ...

Adrien: I’m outta here.

[chatonnoir]

People cheering their Senti theory is confirmed. What do you have in mind about it?

Haha I knew someone would eventually ask me about it since I never really share my opinion on it

I really hated it early in the season, especially because of how people were acting after Wishmaker. Like, a lot of people saw Adrien say he wanted to be what his parents wanted him to be/didn't have any dreams of his own, and their response was a bunch of posts being like "OMG!!!! HE DOESNT HAVE ANY DREAMS!!!! THATS NOT NORMAL!!!!! SENTIMONSTER CONFIRMED!!!!!!" (yes I saw people talking exactly like this and saying things about how its 'not normal') and it was insanely insensitive and obnoxious. Things that were very obvious signs of abuse that a lot of us abused kids related to were turned in to "oBviOuS sIGnS hE's nOt HuMaN!!!1!1!!!1!" by the fandom. Truth be told, the fandom's behavior regarding things that "confirmed" the theory was far more upsetting to me than the idea of the theory becoming canon. I also personally felt like Adrien turning on Gabriel would be more impactful if Gabriel is Adrien’s biological father. Going against your birth parent(s) is immensely difficult to do when you’ve been conditioned to be submissive to them, especially because they often use the fact that you’re “blood” to manipulate you in to being loyal. That's not to say adoptive/non-blood related relatives can't be abusive and that going against them is any less difficult, of course. It's just coming from my perspective as an Asian person, since for us, filial piety and loyalty to our families is instilled in us from birth, and often used to manipulate us in abusive situations. The theory also just felt excessive to me. By which I mean, on top of Adrien already having a dead mother and a villain for a father, adding him having to find out he's a magical being who can be thanos snapped from existence felt like his story was crossing over from angst to just straight up tragedy porn.

On the other hand though, as time has passed and I’ve given it more thought, I don't think it's as unnecessary a plot development as a lot of the people opposed to it believe it is. I've seen people say that ML doesn't need to use metaphors/symbols for abuse when they've already been depicting an abused child from the start and that adding the magical element simply waters down/detracts from the abuse story, but I'm not sure I agree with that. You know I specifically like to talk about the differences between the English script and the French script, and the trend I've pointed out repeatedly is that American networks seem a lot more strict about what they deem "appropriate" for children's shows, resulting in the English script significantly toning down/softening/censoring things that were particularly romantic or emotionally heavy in the French script. I've also talked about how Astruc had originally wanted ML to be a show for teens, but ended up making it a children's show instead for economic/marketing reasons, while still trying to make ML a show that tackles more mature/heavy themes and that can be enjoyed by all ages. Those two things are, in fact, relevant here.

There’s a lot of things kids' media, especially kids' media that is affiliated with The Disney Corporation, can’t show without being blocked by executives or forced to raise the rating etc. Magical “loopholes” like Sentis let them get away with showing things more blatantly than they usually would and allow them to delve in to "darker" themes they otherwise wouldn’t be able to tackle, like explicit abuse/trauma and death (think of how Disney villains usually have to die offscreen by falling to their doom/being engulfed in flames/turning to dust/etc.) You may be thinking, “but darker things like death and physical abuse were shown by other Y-7 rated cartoons like Avatar: The Last Airbender!”, but remember that ATLA aired on Nickelodeon, not Disney. Nickelodeon has always been a lot more lax than Disney when it comes to what is “appropriate” for kids (and even then, ATLA always had to have those things happen offscreen). Did you ever notice how ML Season 1 was significantly more risqué than the later seasons, between Chat Noir flirting with Ladybug by saying he “looks hot in a swimsuit,” Ladybug implying that she’d like to see Adrien without his clothes on, and Ladybug being pinned to the ground with Chat Noir on top of her while they kissed? Did you also know that ML Season 1 originally aired on Nickelodeon in the US, after which the rights to the show were acquired by Disney? TOTAL coincidence that these teens got significantly less thirsty after the network switch /s

They've already been using magic as a loophole to push the boundaries like this, like all the times characters have "died"/disappeared, and when they actually showed Chat Noir accidentally “kill” someone onscreen (Aeon), and when they were literally able to show one of their leads eradicating all life on earth. They could get away with all of that because they have Ladybug’s Reset Button and because they kept it vague/magical enough to be able to defend that “they didn’t die they just disappeared/short-circuited/got turned in to statues/etc.!!!!“ (they absolutely did die). They can have Émilie's corpse on display in the basement because they never outright say she's "dead" and leave it vague enough that they can convince children and/or network executives that she's in a Snow White-esque endless sleep caused by magic. Characters being Sentis opens new doors for them in terms of storytelling which lets the writers bypass the limitations of being a children’s show. They can more blatantly depict Adrien being terrified of and submissive to his father without being censored/forced to tone it down because they can defend it with “no it’s not actually too dark/heavy for a children’s show, we’re not blatantly showing a child who has been traumatized and beaten in to submission! Its just because of his father's magical control! Perfectly appropriate for a children’s show! :)”

And that reasoning makes even more sense when you consider the way pretty minor/inoffensive things already get censored in the show. Chat Noir simply saying “I thought I’d lost you” was inexplicably turned in to “that was a wild ride” in the English dub of Animan??? Because apparently even having one of the leads get emotional while admitting that they thought their partner died was too much? They have a lot of constraints to work around when writing a show which is rated for ages 5+, is affiliated with Disney, and has a runtime of ~20 minutes per episode, and I don’t think enough people take those facts in to consideration when they criticize the show. Plenty of people have already made a lot of good points about how it could be beneficial for children who are victims of abuse (check out @gentil-minou's posts on it) so I won't get in to that. I just wanted to talk about this specific aspect since I haven't seen anyone taking it in to consideration in their criticism. Also, the people who are opposed to it really need to stop acting like there is one correct way to represent child abuse and that there aren't child abuse victims who actually find comfort in/relate to SentiAdrien.

My feelings are mixed and I'm waiting to see where they go with it instead of casting judgement before they've even had a chance to tell the story, but I don't hate it and I definitely don't believe it's the unnecessary plot development that the people opposed to it say it is.

[gentil-minou]

OKAY SO THEORY TIME

EPHEMERAL TRAILER DEAR LORD

So, like I said, Ephemeral is the 22nd episode of the 4th season, a parallel to Chat Blanc.

We know, from what Thomas and other's have said that this will be a "What If" style episode.

I've said before (like literally yesterday holy shit) that to keep with the parallel, Adrien will be akumatized in Ephemeral, but this time as himself.

An lo, and behold,

The looks like a father and son dastardly duo (complete with complete lack of fashion) if I ever did saw.

Now...that trailer. HOOOOOO BOY THAT TRAILER...

First off....

Mari is talking to Su Han, my guess because he wants her to find out who the cat miraculous belongs to, for Guardian reasons. He actually looks kind like he's trying to helo out here. I don't think he's telling her he's going to take it away at all.

And so, perhaps she starts speculating on who Chat might be....or maybe she connects the dots.

Incidentally, remember the last time we saw a rain scene in the Chat Blanc timeline? What if we've reached the same point as as that timeline...where Marinette discovers, once again, who Chat is (I'm gonna write a meta about the Chat Blanc parallels just from the trailer don't you guys worry.)

So the "What If" scenario for Marinette is discovering Chat's identity....

But what about Adrien?

Adrien obviously discovers his mom...

So my theory: He discovers his dad is Hawkmoth and needs the miraculous to get her back.

We've seen a lot of shots this season where Adrien misses his mom...so maybe because he doesn't know who Ladybug is and because he has been feeling sidelined, we get an alternative timeline where he joins his father's side.

Remember this part of the summary we got before?

What would happen if Ladybug and Cat Noir discovered their secret identities? To beat a villain, Ladybug calls on nine superheroes when all she needed was Cat Noir and his cataclysm. But she couldn't call the latter, as she still doesn't know his secret identity. The Celestial Guardian of the Miraculous decides that this situation cannot go on. It is too dangerous to leave Cat Miraculous in the wild with a stranger. If Ladybug wants to remain Guardian, she must find a way to tell Master Su-Han who Cat Noir really is. Someone must know, to control. Faced with this ultimatum, what will Ladybug do?

Clearly, the big akuma battle we saw with the others was the battle referred to here, so we can assume that battle happened at the beginning of the episode, perhaps while Adrien was attending this for his dad.

Once again, he was forgotten. Perhaps, this was the final straw? So he decides to join his dad, maybe even lure Ladybug into a trap.

Or it's confirmed he's a senti-being and his father decides to force him to.

He allows his father to take his miraculous, unifying the black cat and the butterfly to create the ultimate monstrosity unification and akumatize himself so that he can take down Ladybug, while in the process learning her identity as his good friend Marinette.

This, would be the end of Ladybug and Chat Noir.

Now of course, this is a "What If" time line so there has to be the saving the day of course?

That's where Cosmobug and Pinkdrien Astrocat save the day.

The next question then...is who would be the one to bring them back and reset the timeline?

There's been some good meta on the "Two Sides of The Same Coin" Theory (shout out to @coccinelle-et-chaton and @miraculous-clowncar for this one).

What if Adrien realizes what he's done and goes to extreme lengths to undo it all, and chooses to be better than his father?

Like say, breaks his own akumatization, defeats his dad, and steals back both miraculouses to reset the timeline?

Edit cause I have realized the error of my ways:

OKAY lesson learned folks: don't write your theories when you are shaking from new trailer.

I agree with what others (specifically these guys) have said that Adrien wouldn't willingly get akumatized.

But I still think he's the akuma.

So let's say he is in so much shock and betrayal and accidentally reveals himself to be Chat Noir and then we have two options:

1. Adrien is in so much shock and pain from seeing his mom that he becomes the perfect akuma target for Mr "I Have No Soul" Agreste who forces him to give up his miraculous

or

2. Sentiadrien, and it turns out that my theory Gabe never controlled him because he didn't want to "sink that low" (listen even assholes have some standards....probably) but is willing to because suddenly, like in Chat Blanc, it seems like his prize is even easier to get (especially if he needs both rings to control him and has gotten the rings back from Felix in Gabriel Agreste)

Both are equally devastating options....

But it would set him up to break his own akuma (which we've seen in previous episodes people can do) and defeats his dad to save the day.

[heart-of-the-morningstar]

Is Adrien (and Felix) a Sentimonster? What we know so far…(Spoilers below)

Ok so I wanted to make a comprehensive list of evidence collected throughout season 4 supporting this theory because I’m absolutely terrified for our boy.

Evidence 1: No Childhood Dreams

This may be the weakest piece of evidence but it makes some sense in this context. In “Wishmaker” we learn Adrien never had any childhood dreams except for what his parents wanted him to be.

This would make sense in the context of Adrien being a sentimonster; he would have no childhood dreams of his own because his parents would tell him exactly what he should be at every point while growing up. Ladybug sums it up to Chat just not remembering but we see Adrien legitimately never had any dreams of what he wanted to be growing up.

Evidence 2: Gabriel Twisting his Ring

This is probably the most damning piece of evidence and we’ve only recently been seeing this in the show. There have been 3 instances now in season 4 where we see Gabriel twisting his wedding ring after giving Adrien a command. The writers have made a point to make sure we notice this. Once in Mega Leech and twice in Ephemeral.

You can even see in the last photo set how Adrien is fighting akumatization tooth and nail until Gabriel twists his ring. Adrien almost immediately stops fighting and gives in to his father’s demand. Knowing this, one can assume that Gabriel’s ring is Adrien’s amok. This means he would have no free will when he is told to do something and someone is in control of his amok. This leads to the third point

Evidence 3: Felix

In the latest episode “Gabriel Agreste”, we see Gabriel trying to get his other wedding back from Felix who had stolen it back in season 3. There was a really surprising scene from this episode that might confirm the senti-Adrien theory.

This is very interesting here. We’ve seen in previous episodes where the snapping of fingers dissolves the sentimonster and releases the amok. Since there are two rings, it’s not a far fetched theory to think that both wedding rings have amoks and Adrien and Felix may both be sentimonsters! But what’s surprising is that it appears that Felix is fully aware of the power Gabriel has over him. If this theory is true, does that mean Felix knows he is a sentimonster while Adrien has been left in the dark? Does the ring that Felix stole have his amok? It’s interesting to think about.

Bonus: Ambassador Tweets

So let’s say the evidence presented in this post isn’t enough for you to believe this theory is possible, I have some tweets from one of the show’s ambassadors:

I’m unsure what emotion Adrien could be formed from but my guess could be content

Adrien has been shown to have free will throughout the show, making his own decisions especially when away from his father

We have seen Adrien have his birthday, so he is aging. And we’ve definitely seen him fall in love

Adrien has been akumatized twice and is the chosen holder for the cat miraculous

Assuming Emilie is the one who created Adrien, she does not to be alive or conscious for Adrien to be living

Conclusion: Is it possible?

Putting everything together, I personally believe it’s more than possible for our sunshine boy Adrien to be sentimonster. I would even go further to say it’s probable. I’d love to know everyone’s thoughts on this. And if you have any more information, please feel free to add!

[ct-multifandom]

the REAL scary part of this episode two: electric boogaloo

https://ct-multifandom.tumblr.com/post/658852572552183808/the-real-scary-part-of-this-episode

Hey guys, remember this post I made right after Wishmaker came out? It feels like half of tumblr’s ml regulars have seen it and freaked out over it, and I’ve even seen people citing this post in the tag without actually @ -ing me. but if you’ve managed to avoid it I’d recommend catching up before reading the squeakuel.

Edit: holy crap I wrote 90% of this post in November right when this episode came out and completely forgot about it. *Francine voice* I’m a failure. Sorry guys, better late than never.

In the last post, I basically saw the image of Adrien’s parents with their eye colors as the opposite of what they’re “supposed” to be, and went on this whole deep dive into theories reminiscent of the parent trap and celebrity wife swap.

Thing is, though, Gabriel Agreste takes place nine episodes before Wishmaker and BOY does it have more evidence for my theories. Literally brought a tear to my eye when I noticed this one detail below.

Why haven’t I seen a single soul bring this up before me?

When Marino slides past Gabriel’s finger print scanning security tablet, every single person before her scanned their finger, and they clearly all checked out, but she made sure not to have to touch it because she knew she wouldn’t pass. After this, Chloe insists Gabriel watch her video, so Marino “trips” and throws her tall box of plates at Chloe. This causes Chloe to drop her phone as Adrien jumps to catch it BUT ALSO Gabriel drops his tablet, which BREAKS. The screen doesn’t just shatter, it totally shuts down.

Who are the only people who arrive at the party after this occurs?

Felix and Amelie. Neither of them get their fingerprints scanned while everyone else save Marino did. This is such a subtle yet deliberate detail, so I can’t be surprised that it was missed, but I can’t believe nobody’s made a post about it here yet. The only conclusion I can really draw from this is that Felix, Amelie, or both have fingerprints that don’t match to the ones they should have according to the data in Gabriel’s system.

Everyone’s already analyzed the strong implication that Felix is a sentimonster a million times, so I won’t go deep into that, and these theories operate under the assumption that it’s true, but can sentiFelix explain the possibility of Felix having the “wrong” fingerprint?

Human sentis should theoretically have fingerprints because sentis made with the intention of being humans have all traits that an organic human would have. I’d imagine a human senti would inherently have a unique fingerprint, and Gabriel must have something in the system for Felix regardless because he’s an invited guest. Gabriel and Felix are both aware of Felix being a sentimonster, so even if this isn’t the case, they’d work around it.

But something that stuck out to me was how Gabriel threatened Felix with the same ring he’d soon fiddle with while manipulating Adrien in Mega Leech and more explicitly in Ephemeral. From here on out I’ll be operating under the idea that the rings are the amok object for SentiFelix and SentiAdrien. Was Gabriel bluffing to Felix about the ring being his amok object? Did he really not know whose it was? Did he only figure out it was Adrien’s, and not Felix’s, after attempting and failing to control Felix with it? Are the rings two halves of a single object with a single amok in it like the record from Crocoduel, and both of the boys aren’t tied to one specific ring each?

Here’s a kind of crazy concept: Felix and Adrien swapped places at some point in the past. That would explain Gabriel being unable to magically influence Felix with a ring he thought was made for Felix, because the one he knows as Felix was born as Adrien, and vice versa.

Back to Wishmaker, Adrien is missing a lot of his childhood memories. In my last post I talked about the green eyed woman vs the blue eyed woman. I’ll continue that thought here, so if you have no idea what I’m talking about, peek at the linked post. Our Adrien remembers the blue eyed woman being his birth mother, but all image evidence of Emilie shows her with green eyes

When Felix looks at the portrait of the green-eyed woman, his expression is oddly tender, like more genuine than we’ve ever seen him before. This implies that he has some fond memories of her, which is interesting because we don’t know about any interactions between them, and Adrien doesn’t seem particularly close with Amelie. Could this green-eyed woman be Felix’s birth mother? He’s already a huge mommy’s boy to green-eyed Amelie.

That sort of brings me to another possibility that I explored in the last post: could Amelie and Emilie have switched places? Idk how they’d pull off the massive girlboss gaslighting operation needed to make that work (well, I have one idea) but that would explain why green-eyed Amelie didn’t scan her finger either; it would have come back as the wrong print.

So, in summary, several concepts:

Adrien was born as Felix to the blue-eyed woman and the green-eyed man (who probably died a bit ago). Felix was born as Adrien to the green-eyed woman.

Potentially, they weren’t swapped at birth but grew up this way too, hence all the family photos and Adrien’s missing childhood memories

Le Paon scrubbed memories that were inconvenient to her

Amelie and Emilie swapped places at some point somehow

Literally everyone is a freaking sentimonster except for Le Paon (blue eyes?) and maybe Felix’s dead dad hence why she manipulated everyone so easily and why the two families are like mirror image clones of each other

To close this off, I want to type out a big DISCLAIMER. I’ve seen a lot of people take my theories (general) really seriously, so for that reason I want to make this clear. I notice a lot of little details that many people do not, and these details are Evidence. Of what? Well, I can never be truly sure, so for that reason I spitball a bunch of Ideas. Sometimes they’re cool or interesting or fanfic-like, sometimes they’re realistic, sometimes they’re crazy, but they’re all just Ideas.

For example, I recently made a theory that Marc and Nath would do a kwami swap, and I came across several posts where people referenced it outside the realm of my blog. There’s nothing wrong with believing one of my Ideas, but I wouldn’t say that I think they’ll do a kwami swap. I think that’s very plausible, and I’d love to see it, but I’m not 100% sure anything will happen. What I do know is the Evidence: there are several images associated with season 4 of a rooster holder who isn’t Coq, and that’s what’s important. My best conclusion was that it’s Nath, thus the goat would be open to Marc, but there is no Evidence to support another goat holder. Maybe the rooster is actually Aspik 3.0, or an Adrienette child from the future, or Spock, the Rock, Doc Ock, or Hulk Hogan.

Similarly, when I make these crazy sentimonster theories they’re all just Ideas. Some of them are even semi-ironic or just “this would be really compelling but I would never image they’d make it canon”. I even change my mind about my own thoughts a lot, especially when new info comes up. The Evidence in this case is that Felix and Amelie didn’t get their fingerprints scanned, and this was very deliberately framed by the writers as well as the story boarders. Also, Felix has affectionate memories about the woman in the painting. Everything else is possible explanations for why this is, but those facts are what really matter.

I can’t wait to see what they really mean in canon, and what other foreshadowing we will even have missed up until some kind of lore reveal, but for the time being, this is the Part 2 of things that caught my attention surrounding the Agreste/GdV lore. Interpret it as you will.

[ilikekidsshows]

As a long-time scifi fan, it just appalling how miraculous treats the peacock powers. Like, the whole "it is ethical to create life?", AI developing sapience, and artificial slave races are huge genre themes. I remember when Sentibug appeared and fans were speculating about Adrien being a Senti, my brain did go "ohnonono, you don't want to open that can of worms”. Like, just thinking in how Mass Effect or Nier Automata approached the subject makes me wonder what the writers were thinking...

I’m also thinking how other superhero stories do similar arcs. There is a superhero in Worm that is revealed to be an unshackled AI, and her whole arc is about her gaining true agency and becoming a hero because she wants to. She goes from distress because her creator died to resenting him for the shackles he put on her, declaring in the end “I was the one who made me, who defined myself. This creator is no god, only a cruel, shortsighted man". Wish Adrien had that kind of closure

I called the SentiAdrien concept out on this in my very first post against it back when it was still a theory two years ago. There's been two years since then and the slavery concerns have still not been addressed. Fuck the SentiAdrien "plot". It only exists to devalue Adrien as a human being. I said it would make Adrien less worthy as a person two years ago, except I didn't realize it wouldn't be just an unfortunate side effect, that it was the writers' fucking intention.

Any other artificial being story does it better than what Miraculous ended up doing. Either said stories give their artificial beings arcs specifically about gaining and retaining full autonomy or they don't make their artificial beings tied into slavery to begin with. Instead Miraculous uses Adrien's status as an excuse for Marinette to take over for his dad as the person gaslighting him and controlling him through manipulation and lies.

[billiejean485]

So, I rewatched Risk again and... Welp, I'm still getting shocked at how much this boy's will was controlled. But I'm gonna come back to that in a bit. What I want to bring to attention first is:

Felix' reaction upon seeing Emilie.

The amount of theories and what they're saying about Emilie rivals the one about Pink Diamond's (from Steven Universe) personality and we all know how that went.

The shock Felix had is just... I would say the same as one of a person who was controlled in every aspect against their will and mistreated as a living being and that now saw the abuser who they thought was long gone. His first reaction was to get as far away as possible; he even had his back against the tube elevator. Though, he did recover quite fast after he got out if there...

And then there was another thing, with Adrien, in the Christmas special.

Remember when he openly said he couldn't destroy a Christmas tree because his 'mom' came to mind just as he was about to?

Back then, and up until now, I dismissed that as the typical trope of a kid not being able to destroy something that symbolizes their positive relationship with a deceased parent, but.... Nothing that could hold water for that trope came up at that moment. And we KNOW he's a Sentibeing, so... what if.... he was just 'programed' to never misbehave like that? It would make all the sense - if Gabriel and Amelie wanted a perfect son (and so far we've seen Gabriel never letting Adrien have a say in what he wants to do) they/she most likely must have made him act that way. And Sentibeings can't act opposite to how their creators intended them to be, even when the creator dies (unless they're given their Amok).

So yeah. Really scared of how dark this backstory could be.

On the other, and even more concerning, hand - what does that make Felix? How did he come to be? Why does he look exactly like his 'cousin' (or better called - Sentimonster twin)? What did they do to him? Was he discarded as a flawed creation and given to Amelie? How badly was he mistreated??

Adrien, as far as I could tell from an artistic side, really has the appearance of both Emilie and Gabriel, as if he has both of their genes. So why does Felix look exactly the same? I mean, we are missing one crucial figure in this story - and that is Felix's 'father'. Unless he looks somewhat similar to Gabriel, then it makes no sense for both of these boys to look the same.

Even worse - we know that Sentimonsters can't be snapped out of existence by anyone else other than the wearer of the Peacock Miraculous OR the creator themselves. BUT GABRIEL THREATENED TO KILL HIM WITH A SNAP and that was followed by Felix's reply: "I knew you were no ordinary man uncle." What does it mean???

Astruc did confirm that only one holder can create one Sentimonster at a time, and that one can give the Peacock Miraculous to another person to create a different one. So did Emilie create Adrien and Gabriel create Felix? Or does it have something to do with the twin rings? Though, in that case, Gabriel shouldn't be able to have a say in what happens to Felix's existence. Also, Felix wasn't afraid of him; so what is going on??...

... I think it's time we all accepted that Miraculous took a dark turn - or at least finally revealed that very dark backstory no one was aware of.

And if you wanna talk about mistreatment of the Sentibeings... now's the time. I think this all perfectly sums up how creating something only so you would make it do whatever you want it to do is as inhumane as mistreating any other human and living being. There are no excuses.

... "Getting sentimental on a Sentimonster" rings a bell. But, that same man, who views Sentis in such a way did go to certain lengths so Adrien wouldn't get killed or otherwise harmed; he does seem to care about him in some way. Although... he shows that he doesn't care if he hurts him emotionally or psychologically when he uses him for his masterplans. Plus... he stated that the "ring is the only thing he has left of his wife"... Okay, Adrien is a big part of that ring. Is that why he doesn't want to lose him? Just because he's a memento of Emilie? It didn't seem that way....

Idk, feel free to share your thoughts with me. But, for heaven's sake - be nice. And go away if you're coming here only to salt on Thomas Astruc's writing.

[nekogaaaaaaa]

There are so much theories about Felix & Adrien and I like all of them

From the real human theories:

1. Felix & Adrien are normal twins

2. Felix & Adrien just twin cousins, with no magical or weird bs happening

To the sentimonsters theories:

1. Felix & Adrien are both sentitwins

2. Only Felix is senti, Adrien is human

3. Felix is human, Adrien is senti

.

My personal opinion is Adrien and Felix being twins (sentimonsters or not). Even though I'm neutral about this sentis theories, I actually one of those people who doesn't really like the idea of Adrien being senti (I'm okay with Felix thought I afraid they gonna do something to him *cough -kill him- *cough)

Another theory that I like about them is:

Felix & Adrien are real humans at first but they died (because of accident or something) and get revived as sentimonsters but for some reason they need to separated the twins.

This theory is 99.9% is not gonna happen because it's kinda... Well too dark? A bit dumb? Idk I feel it's not real (I still like this theory thought)

.

I have one theory again,

About Adrien being human and Felix being a ​​senti but keep them as twins

So Felix and Adrien are real twins, they are unseparated like a normal twins. One day something happened when they were kids (like between 10-12 y.o), maybe an accident that made Felix die. Emilie is devastated by the death of one of her children so she uses peacock miraculous to create the new Felix with his old memory but altering it with Adrien's memory(?). But maybe because its not good for her mental health Gabriel dump Felix to Emilie's twin sister, Amelie

Ok talking about Adrien let's just say he witnesses his twin's death so he has trauma (sorry boy, I give you more trauma) it makes his memory is so messed up that he only remembers good things about his childhood, like when he played with Felix and Chloe. He doesn't know Felix is his twin, everyone in his family tell him they are cousins so he lives with that until now.

When did this happen and how it can makes sense to the show's lore? Idk. This show never care about timeline so screw timeline.

[chatnia-starlight]

My thoughts on the vanily rings and the senti-adrien theory:

(this whole post is more like a collection of thoughts and speculation that I have based on what I've seen in the series and some other posts along the past few months. also english isn't my first language sorry if there are any typos or mistakes)

I really don't think and especially don't want the senti-adrien theory to be true, but, I have a few details and stuff that prove it to be wrong, unless the creators pull some other new rules.

With what we know so far, Emilie and Gabriel found their miraculous on their trip to the tibet, a year before "Emilie passed away" and numerous people, Amelie, Chloe, and Felix (so far), have talked about Adrien when he was a child, therefore, he couldn't be a sentimonster, because they didn't have the miraculous back then.

However there's something going on with the rings. I think, that Adrien when he was born something was up, that he was sick or something and they used the magic of the rings to "make him healthy" or something, could explain why he was never allowed out and stuff.

There's also something weird with Felix and Adrien being identical, with Felix's dad "dying" the same day Emilie "did" and us having never seeing his dad. Also the fact that Audrey, and Andre had never mention Amelie when they talk about their past and being friends or something, it's weird to me.

Being "twin sisters" and nobody even talking about her, or mentioning her is weird to me. Since the graham de vanily rings are something like the duality rings or something like that (at least I remember someone else saying that or something) it also seems to me like when they used their power or something they could've created clones or separated themselves in 2, because I insist, how weird is it that cousings with twin mothers but different fathers are identical, unless gabriel also had a twin brother which would just be so weird.

In any case I think the rings are clearly somehow helping gabriel control Adrien and I am scared of Felix realizing that and abusing it, and there is something magical with those rings, but to me it wouldn't make any sense for Adrien to be a sentimonster, however it could be that adrien has an "amok" or has been "akumatized" and the object with that link are both rings and he has some kind of power or something like other akumas, but in any case I do believe Adrien to be a human.

Also last addition, gabriel naming Adrien's akuma "Ephemeral" and well his power being like speeding up things also is what gives me that feeling that Adrien when born wasn't suppossed to live that long, or that truly gabriel and Emilie had him to use him as bait or something else like that like from the shanghai special.

[trainsinanime]

Okay, I don’t want to dive deep into the Senti-Adrien discourse right now, I just want to provide some context. There are people calling the theory “abuse apology”, and many others don’t understand why.

As far as I can tell and remember, the main reason for that is that back when the theory first became big, there were genuinely a few posts that went, “if Adrien isn’t a real boy, that explains why Gabriel is so mean to him”. A related idea was “Gabriel is so abusive to Adrien because Emilie died as a side-effect of creating Adrien” (I may be misremembering specifics). The underlying idea was “Adrien being a sentimonster provides an explanation, perhaps even justification, for why Gabriel is so abusive”.

These points are obviously wrong and easy to dunk on, and so a lot of enemies of the theory (including me for a long time) did. In retrospect, that was a mistake. The vast majority of people who like the theory never supported these particular points, and it is not justified valid to reject the entire theory (let alone be unfriendly to its supporters) because of these fringe ideas.

I’m sure there are people who have other reasons why they call it abuse apology, but honestly I haven’t checked; 90% of the time I just scroll past any post that says “sentimonster” in the first two lines. But my understanding is that the core idea, the meme if you will, comes from that place: An overblown reaction to a few non-convincing arguments made long ago that are otherwise largely forgotten. I’m just bringing this up because I’ve seen this question from several different people a number of times over the past few days.