#see this is why I don't understand people who say Jon has no personality or he's a copy of clark

[snapdrag0n]

Everybody saying martin and yes. Yes. Of course I agree. Duh. It's also kind of the curse of being a VERY complex, VERY famous fictional character who also goes through a lot of change during the story and whose character arc includes him being misread and misunderstood by others.

But it's still frustrating because it's so obvious. Tma does a great job at depicting how people's perception of Martin is VERY wrong. People SAY things about him and afterwards, Martin SHOWS you that assumption was completely off - sometimes immediately after! Jon assumes Martin is incapable? Mere episodes later Martin has worked so hard that he got locked in his house for 13 days and still, the first thing he does as he's freed is make a statement. Jon starts recognizing his ability to be "almost cunning" soon after -- he's seeing the real Martin.

In s2-3 Tim is convinced all Martin wants is an idyllic reality where everyone is happy and nothing bad ever happens. Tim assumes Martin wants an escape, when the ENTIRETY of s3 is Martin being nearly the only one to actually face what is happening -- HE's making the statements and researching them on his own, not Tim, as bad as it makes him feel. And when Elias tells him his devotion is to a person who treats him quite badly his answer is "yeah, I know". Because he DOES. People keep assuming Martin doesn't stand up for himself, but it's the opposite -- Martin knows EXACTLY when someone is mistreating him and manipulating him, and he usually uses that. Why else would he have been so strongly considered for the Web? Elias's first idea was to destroy Martin's image of Jon -- but he can't, because Martin ALREADY knows. That's when he hits way closer, to his parents and his mother, the one topic that's actually still a sore subject for him. And yet, after all that, he immediately gets up and gets back to business, his plan having succeeded. He gets back to work. Martin's ability to manipulate a situation to his advantage is CONSISTENTLY shown and NOBODY SEEMS TO SEE IT both in the show and outside of it.

And s4 oh s4. To me it's peak Martin season because everything he's been trying to push against becomes too strong for him -- and still he perseveres and proves everyone wrong. Here, the concept of him knowing he's being manipulated and using it to his benefit is central to his arc and consistent until the end -- everytime you think Peter might have finally gotten him, Martin reminds you he knows EXACTLY who he's working with, and beats him, even when the Lonely has nearly completely got him (then there's Jon pulling him out, and him finally, finally getting back all that love he's given, all that caring. But that's another story. I love jmart)

And s5 has a lot of him, and I could go on and on, but I'll just say this. You probably don't realize just how much Martin manipulates the situations he's in so that what he wants can happen, and it's not obvious in s5, but he's actually doing it with his relationship with Jon -- not in a bad, actually manipulative way, mostly, but in the way you would if you saw your partner go through what Jon went through, become what Jon has become. Martin pushes Jon to get out of his guilty mindset. Martin convinces Jon to get out and try to make it better. If you still don't see it: do you realize that in the finale, despite Jon betraying everything they'd organized, what happens is STILL what Martin wanted?

It might be unfair to call it manipulation: it's not. Martin, at his core, loves immensely, and that's something any fan sees. What many people don't truly understand is HOW Martin loves: he doesn't love carelessly and selflessly (except in the very beginning, maybe). Martin loves very, very carefully. He adores and loves and takes CARE of it. He's stubborn, hard, and resolute in the face of it. He will not sit and take it. He will love actively and he will fight for it.

Worst pain

[ultfreakme]

Have you seen the preview for aos;jk?

Yes I have!!!

I am so excited! I love that Jon's angry at Harley and everyone, and isn't just immediately being all gung-ho happy-go-lucky like I think this is a claer example of how Jon differs as Superman from Clark. He's a lot more practical and he's approached this entire situation like Lois, and the story even points it out.

I love, love LOVE that the Injustice characters grow to trust him not because he's like clark before everything went wrong, but because he's like Lois. In terms of his physical appearance, he is Clark but personality and heroics is all Lois from SOKE to now.

Can't wait to see what's going to happen to InJaystice. I thought Clark would be cool with the kidnapping but it's clear he wants to keep Jon happy. But now that Damian's going to show Jon's working with the rebels....I'm scared for Jay(excitedly).

I can't wait for Tuesday!!!

[lo-fi-charming]

so i've been keeping up with TMP as it's airing, which has been fun, it's actually really nice to experience this kind of story weekly since i came into TMA late and listened up to the s4 finale in like, a month or two. i've been enjoying the new characters and statements, and while i was worried i'd have trouble actively listening (my attention span/executive functioning can be really variable when it comes to podcasts), it's been surprisingly easy for me to actually listen to each new ep the day it drops publicly

all this to say im enjoying the show! but i've found myself feeling increasingly frustrated with a couple things i keep seeing when it comes to discussions of it

to me, it seems... there's been a pervasive reluctance to take TMP as what it is. and i do understand that. it'd be stupid to pretend TMP doesn't exist exclusively because of TMA and that show's success, that it's a successor that was pitched as being similar. it's a story being written by the same people (plus guests), in the same universe (roughly), going for about the same tone and maybe themes.

i just feel like it's a bit of a shame, though, that so many folks seem unwilling not to carry TMA with them when they're engaging with TMP

i don't know where or when it was said, but i swear there was a comment made by jonny and/or alex about how TMP will have some commonality with TMA in terms of world-building, but also, people who listened to TMA first may find themselves theorizing in the wrong direction because we're judging things based off what is no longer concrete, reliable information; things are going to work differently in the world of TMP, and since we have preconceived notions on what is relevant or how things work, that's going to influence how we engage with information presented in TMP if we let it. and that's not even considering the fact that they've been explicit in conveying the idea that TMP was written so you can experience it fully without having listened to any of TMA at all!

i'm very much someone who tries to engage with media on its own terms, largely taking things at face value until i'm given reason to suspect otherwise. that's something i'm trying my best to still do with TMP, even though obviously, i've also listened to TMA and am basing some of my thoughts and personal theories on what we know from that

but that's what i mean to say i guess, it's something you have to actively choose to do. and it feels like, just based on what i've been seeing in fandom spaces, that a lot of people are having a bit of an odd time with TMP because of a reluctance to do that?

i think the easiest way to explain what i mean is to point to a general acceptance, already on the level of fanon it seems, to interpret the computer voices as Our Jon and Martin (+ Jonah/Elias, maybe). now obviously we have the actual real world reason why their voices are present in TMP, because of course jonny and alex were going to come back as voices in the show in some way. and i 100% agree it's a perfectly logical conclusion to then interpret their inclusion as being related to Jon and Martin somehow. i'm personally very into the theory that it is in no way them - not in any way that matters - but specifically their voices that have been stolen (by the Web?) as a means to help spread fears in other realities. but that's really not how i've been seeing people play with the concept? it seems largely 1:1. and again, i totally understand where people are coming from with that - especially when you consider how it can be a super fun concept for horror and angst, or even just the fact that folks want an excuse to carry their favorite characters into this new show and still play around with them. i promise i don't mean to bring this up as a means of making anyone feel bad or like, chastised for interpreting things a certain way and playing in the space!

it's the biggest example of what i mean though, and was a huge point of frustration for me when we were first being presented with TMP. it's not just that i don't want the voices to be Jon and Martin proper (i am very into their Ambiguous End, i believe it's best to leave that as a space for fans to play in); in all honesty, i think it's kind of a shame and maybe even a bit boring (im sorry!) to be engaging with TMP this way

and it's not just stuff like that - i've been seeing a fair amount of people expressing frustration and feeling disappointed with how TMP is hitting, but i mean, i feel like that's inevitable when you're going into it expecting More TMA? i saw at least one person basically say "ive been waiting for it to make me feel the way TMA made me feel, and it hasn't yet", and i really just feel like that's setting yourself up to be dissatisfied! beyond the fact that we're only 5 episodes in and the story has barely gotten a chance to happen yet, a huge element of this new show is that it's being approached as a largely collaborative effort, it seems, with lots of guests coming in to help shape the story and more writing and plotting influence that isn't jonny

obviously it's fine to not be super into that! undoubtedly it's a question of taste. but you do have to acknowledge that that's the case and adjust your expectations accordingly, or else you're not going to have a great time

i really like TMA, i had a great time with it, but even if TMP is a sequel to its parent podcast, it's not the same thing - and personally, i don't want it to be! i do hope that's a sentiment that is able to be more widely felt by some fans as we gain more distance from TMA while TMP is airing. i just think more people would be able to enjoy it that way, and come up with more interesting theories and interpretations of things! but those are really just my own personal thoughts

[kairos-polaris]

Beloved, why do you ship jonelias? Why do they consume your waking thoughts so?

I am glad you asked :D

So! I really enjoy uneven "problematic" power dynamics and this was what originally attracted me to jonelias. I listened to mag 92 and thought "jonelias seems like something I would ship" because even then I could tell they fit my taste. I also just like protagonist/antagonist ships, complicated relationships are my favourites

mag 92 is one of my favourite episodes as a jonelias shippers for a couple of reasons. at first it was solely the conversation between Jon and Elias and how it was about Jon getting changed by Elias, because of Elias. Jon was being openly vulnerable! "Am I still human, Elias?" he asks Elias who has just confessed to murder and keeping people hostage. Jon, who had so much respect and admiration for Elias' expertise, turns to him even in that moment. It is Elias who he seeks reassurance from, he asks another monster if he is one

Another aspect of mag 92 I am obsessed with is the opening statement and the way Elias puts Jon above everyone else (telling him to discard everyone in his pursuit) while also placing Jon on the same level as him

(Side note: I am still not sure if I prefer Jon to sit on Elias' lap/have Elias clean his wound or to focus more on what they don't do, on the gaping distance between them that they both wish wasn't there but both have their own reasons to not bridge it. Both are so good)

Vampire metaphor! Jon is a walking vampire metaphor and Elias is his maker, his creator. I am so obsessed with the idea of Jon feeding on Elias, pulling fear from his mind and Elias enjoying the intrusion and the freedom the compulsion brings. He said it felt tingly! Freak (affectionate). Also, telepathy and mind meld is so delicious

What I love most about jonelias is what I love in others ships: obsession and fully knowing each other. Beholding allows to take knowing and seeing your partner to another level, Jon and Elias can know and see each other in ways other people in their lives can't

Moral corruption is inherently fascinating to me and especially Jon. He gets worse throughout the series, his only anchors to humanity are his own guilt and the people around him who more often than not just reinforce that guilt (this makes sense in the context of the story but you can't guilt yourself into being a better person and that's why it doesn't really work for Jon but I digressed). I like thinking about all the ways Jon could be worse, the ways Jonah could push Jon into following his worst impulses, into choosing to be a monster instead of drowning in guilt to not feel helpless and powerless

I love jonelias when it's about all the things they wish to do but don't because they have other priorities, because they know but don't understand each other just like their patron. I love jonelias when it's Jon giving in, letting go. Of his morals, of his guilt, letting Elias shape him into something new. I love the idea of Jonah Magnus who worships no god, not even the one he serves, adoring and worshipping Jon and especially the parts of Jon that he himself had shaped. The Pygmalion and Galatea of it

Jonah chose Jon! He saw him and knew he was right! Jonah wants the Archivist and he wants the Archivist to be Jon. Sure, Jon was marked by the Web first but Jonah picked him too and I love it. It's fascinating from both of theirs perspective, Jonah feeling proud he made the right choice and Jon having a complicated mix of feelings about it. He hates that he was chosen and he just a little happy that he was chosen and he hates himself for it

Another thing I really like is the way they say each other's name! Elias calls Jon by his name a lot and I hate when people act like he doesn't

Jon and Jonah are very similar and I find that fascinating too. They are both workaholics and nerds and losers and freaks!! And I love them for that. And and and I really do think they could have eventually been truly equal if not for Jonahs prioritising his evil plan

Also they are sexy, I don't make the rules

[jozor-johai]

So do you think Dany and Jon are just two Heads of the Dragon? and if so, who do you think is the third? my money's on Bran as like, the Ice Representative to balance out Dany's fire and Jon's Ice/Fire dealies.

Thank you for this ask, sorry it took ages to respond.

Say that we know (or we think we know) that two "heads" of "the dragon" are Jon and Dany—insofar as we even think we understand what that phrase is supposed to mean (an assumption that I think is worth questioning as well, but that's not a task for now).

Here's what I love about this question—the issue of "who/what is the 'third head'" comes up as a literal question in a religious sense when Arya is talking to the Sailor's Wife in Braavos. There's a statue to the god Trios, and the Sailor's Wife can't tell us the purpose of one of the heads:

Three-headed Trios has that tower with three turrets. The first head devours the dying, and the reborn emerge from the third. I don't know what the middle head's supposed to do.

GRRM is definitely referencing the concept of the "three headed (dragon)" when he invented Trios; the imagery is too central and too specific for that not to be the case. What's fun, of course, is that we're all asking ourselves the same thing—what (or who) is that middle head?

I like your suggestion about Bran. It's a pretty unorthodox idea, because most people assume/expect that the three heads of the "dragon" must be Targaryen or at least Valyrian... but I don't think one needs Valyrian blood to ride a dragon, so as far as I'm concerned Bran is an option. He's a cool idea, too, because of his attachment to the North, the far North, and maybe even the "Ice" concept, like you say. Bran's also a powerful skinchanger—or, in training to be one—and there's not a doubt in my mind we're going to see some dragons get skinchanged. GRRM has been asked about that idea before and he's gleefully dodged answering it.

That would also be interesting because it's worth remembering that Jon is technically not canonically a Targaryen (yet), or even a contender to be a "head of the dragon" (yet). We think we've figured it out (and we probably have) but it's still technically a mystery. In that sense, then, if I was going to lean on the comparison with Trios, I would say: perhaps by now we should have met the first "head" —the "death" head—and we should have met the last head— "rebirth" head—so we should be missing this middle head whose purpose we don't know. However, we think we've figured out that Jon is the marriage of Ice and Fire, so maybe he's the "unknown" middle head—and then Dany is, on one side, the "rebirth" head (of fire?), and we should have met the "death" head (of ice?) already, but we don't know who it might be. Perhaps it's Bran!

If I'm being honest, I personally haven't thought too much about solving the third head of the dragon issue. It's clear to me that some key piece of the puzzle is being intentionally obscured from our view, so it feels like a fool's errand to be confident in solving it at this point. I realize that's a lame answer, but it's the truth—I try to approach these things beginning with how they work in the story and how they work with the symbolism at play, so without being sure how the "three heads" are even supposed to work I haven't tried to solve this mystery.

If there are truly three people who are going to be the "three heads of the dragon," I think the rules of good storytelling limit our options to characters that were introduced in AGOT. If we limit that to POVs—which is not necessarily a valid assumption, but I think is likely—then that's only Tyrion, Bran, Arya, or Sansa. I'm torn on the common "Tyrion Targaryen" theory... I don't really like it, but it would explain why he's included as a POV in AGOT and why he makes the shortlist for possibilities here (among other things). Bran would be a much more interesting option, though.

The thing is, I'm ultimately not convinced the "three heads" are going to work like we expect. Yes, it's said that Aegon, Rhaenys, and Visenya were the "three heads," but who knows if the common understanding of that is true? Plus, the person who presents the idea to Dany of the need for "three heads" to ride the three dragons is Jorah... who I don't think knows shit about dragons. So my mind is wide open when it comes to possible interpretations of the "three heads of the dragon."

[agentrouka-blog]

Dany fan here: I think other Dany fans think Jonsas are over the top with Dany hate because of pol!Jon. I follow many Jonsas because I’m perfectly fine with Jonsa. It’s not for me but I see the vision. That said I’m a bit of an unusual Dany fan in the sense that I’m a big fan of the Meereenese Knot essays and think the interpretation of Dany presented there is pretty spot on. I personally think Dany has a good heart but that circumstance and experience and terrible coping mechanisms have led her to act in villainous ways and whether or not a character is a villain is determined by their actions regardless of whatever goodness is in their heart. But anyway I do not like the pol!Jon theory. I think it’s out of character for Jon and needlessly cruel to Dany. I think it’s possible that he ultimately kills her and that could be fine and I don’t reject that theory, but I think the idea of Jon deceiving and sexually abusing Dany and then killing her for the sake of Sansa is what Dany fans think of when they think of over the top hate because they assume every Jonsa shipper also believes in pol!Jon.

I do understand why people thought Jon was deceiving Dany in the show though because their relationship was just so poorly executed and Kit and Emilia had no chemistry on screen. Imagine fucking up your show’s romance so badly that people think the script confirming that the love was mutual must have been tampered with.

Hi there!

(I think Dany is a compelling tragic villain, and it's lovely seeing someone loving her for it!)

I do think that pol!Jon (under duress, esentially) is a not unreasonable theory that grew out of the way the show presented their relationship. If there was sexual abuse I think it's fair to say it was in the hands of the more powerful party, though.

That said, I don't see it happening that way in the books at all and I think all characters will be better off for it. I agree it wouldn't feel right.

Certainly not in a punitive "you thought he would love you but he really loves Sansa, now die!!!" way. That cheapens jonsa as much as it cheapens the complexity of the conflict between Dany and Jon.

It's just a deeply uninteresting way to explore their existing conflict or their respective strengths. Not to be a hater but it's not exactly riveting literature watching Dany be manipulated by Daario and it's unlikely to be more so in a repeat performance with Jon who isn't even her type. Same as watching Jon go through a repeat of the abusive Ygritte plotline would be less than compelling.

We'll have instances of romantic manipulation. Littlefinger is practically begging Sansa to use his own obsession against him, and Arya gives us a preview when she lures Raff to his death wearing "Mercy's" face. That's been set up since the first book, and it works as a satisfying response to the way everyone has been telling Sansa how weak and simple she is. It's very personal, very steeped in their respective histories, very poetic.

But for Jon and Dany I think we can expect something more universal and even-handed than that. They are both at varying points manipulative and earnest, highly clever or unexpectly outmaneuvered. And neither will be in this conflict all alone and without advice. Not to mention, we have both of their POVs and watching one just miss all the clues of the other manipulating them would be flat. This only ever works with one POV withheld. The show tried that with Jon Snow live on the screen, to disastrous results. No way is that GRRM's plan.

I'd rather watch two clever adversaries play a big game of chess. And given GRRM's love for that game, I am certain it's also what he would prefer to write.

[rise-my-angel]

hi! i wanted to get your opinion because i admire the way you write these characters and you're so knowledgeable of the lore.

do you think robert actually loved lyanna or do you think she was just something he felt he was owed? like a prize that was taken away from him by someone else rather than her being her own person.

keep in mind i've only ever seen the show but his behaviour always struck me as obsessive rather than a man truly mourning "the love of his life."

i also don't see lyanna liking robert as 1) he was much older than her right? and 2) arya was a lot like her right? so she was a free spirit and wanted to learn and fight and not be a lady and robert doesn't strike me as someone ok with that in a wife. 3) robert's always been a whore so even if he did "love" lyanna he wouldn't be faithful regardless.

i know ned loved robert but he too saw the type of person robert was (and became after the war) and i don't see ned being truly comfortable with him being with his sister.

anyway i just have a lot of feelings about lyanna even tho i don't know much about her (i've just started the first book!) and i feel for her because girls are never allowed to just be girls. men always ruin everything with their wars and their egos and it's always the women who suffer, especially in game of thrones.

i think often of what it would be like if she lived and how horrid her future would be because of men in her life especially if she still gave birth to jon. she didn't deserve to die but maybe death was a kinder fate.

So interestingly enough, Robert in the show actually provides a lot more interesting perspective on this. Robert in the books is a lot more blatantly dislikable and unsympathetic, but the show provides us a new version of Robert that is actually as tragic as he is pathetic.

The simple fact of the matter is Robert didn't really know her. Robert liked the idea of Lyanna, but because she was gone so early before he could know her, he doesn't actually have a memory of her that is solid and concrete. He only has the memory of the idea of her, and he can only mourn that. So as the years go on, by the time we meet him, he has really nothing left but those scraps of a girl he hardly knew.

It's more explained in the books, but Lyanna did not like Robert. She didn't like he got around so much he had bastards yet was betrothed to her, she didn't like the fact that she knew he would be unfaithful, and clearly did not wish to marry him. Now Ned did try and tell her otherwise because partially yes Robert is his friend, but also because Ned knows he has no control over that marriage and would rather try to make his sister feel better and say maybe it will get better then just tell her what a miserable life shes in store for. Ned wanted to give her hope rather then give her literally nothing.

But Robert in the show is much more interesting, because he in the show, knows exactly what he's turned into. Robert in the show is smart, we see in the way he senses war coming, the way he understands what would happen should the Dothraki invade and in reterospective he was right about getting rid of the Targaryean threat early on before they slaughtered the people of Westeros. We struggle to see he's right though because both what we know about Jon and how that influences Neds responce to all this, and also his passion for his own hatred is off putting, but he's right, he's smart and he knows he is washed up from his own hand.

But Robert too, knows hes pathetic. He knows he has given himself no life to value now, so all he has is the past to cling onto. It's why he cannot give up Lyannas memory. She died before he had the chance to know her as a person and thus his memory of her loss is shrouded in the falsehoods he painted about her.

There's this scene he has with Cersei discussing her, and it's why I think Robert both does and doesn't love Lyanna, it's also one of the most emotionally honest scenes in season 1 from Robert of all people:

"You want to know the horrible truth? I can't even remember what she looked like. All I know is she was the one thing I ever wanted. Someone took her away from me, and Seven Kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind."

Robert is trapped at Lyannas loss. He has never moved on, and he still mourns her as if right in that fresh memory. But he also knows he has so little of Lyanna that he barley has her image in his head, all he has is the memory of loss. It's pathetic and he knows he's pathetic because he laments with shame to Cersei just after this that he never could've loved her in Lyannas place.

He loves the memory of Lyanna rather then her, but Robert in the show is more sympathetic about it. Him saying Seven Kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind is such a good line. He's saying being King did not fufill that loss and thus nothing at this point ever will. He's admitting being King was not a solution to trauma but he knows no other way anymore.

Now would she have been happy with Robert? No. I don't think Lyanna wanted to marry at all, or at least at that age she held no interest in marriage. She was wild and fun and passionate about her people, her brothers, her friends. She wanted to be a girl who still had time to live her passions and maybe pursue something more to her duties as a highborn girl later in life.

Now, some people think Ned would never have stepped in on Lyannas behalf with Robert, but no. Ned hid Lyannas son from Robert, which considering who the father was, that act by Ned could've been considered treason for Jons whole life. Ned does not value Roberts friendship or his loyalty to Robert over Lyanna. And some people equating how Ned handles Cersei to how he'd handle Lyanna is wrong.

Ned KNOWS Cersei is the enemy. Ned KNOWS Cersei would rather see him dead then what she's built up dismantled. Ned feels for her abuse at Roberts hands but will not step in because Cersei has given him no reason to be loyal to her more then his oldest friend.

But Ned cared more about Lyanna then Cersei and more about Lyanna then Robert.

Some people think Ned wouldn't have intervened if Lyanna suffered with Robert but thats not true. Ned hid the biggest secret Robert would've killed for, from him even beyond Roberts death. If Ned wouldn't have stepped in for Lyanna against Robert, he wouldn't have taken Lyannas son in as his own and hidden him from Robert his whole life.

Ned also DOES push back against him. Talks him out of stupid ideas, tells him off, quits being Hand of the King (which too is actually about Neds own fear about Robert learning the truth of Lyanna and Jon, its actually not about Dany at all). Ned clearly does not put Robert ahead of his family until he is given no choice but to stay and serve him. Robert all but orders him to stay in Kings Landing, which even then, Neds plan is to still send his children home even when he couldn't go with them.

I can't say for sure if Robert would've treated Lyanna the way he did Cersei, but I don't think it would be like that. He'd still be unfaithful and hostile, but he hates Cersei partially because he was forced to marry a woman soon after losing Lyanna. He resents Cersei for not being her.

If he married Lyanna I don't think he'd mistreat her the way he blatantly does Cersei but no, it wouldn't have been a happy marriage. But I don't think the degree of abuse and marital rape would have occurred the way people think it would've.

Robert and Ned both do not value Cersei's life the way they both valued Lyannas, and thus the way she'd be treated or protected would be vastly different then how both of them separately handled Cersei.

Robert in the show is more tragic then he is hateable. He didn't know Lyanna and cannot move past the trauma of how she left this world. But in the show, he knows that and he knows he's pathetic for it. Now, what would've happened if Lyanna still gave birth to Jon but lived?

Thats a harder thing to hide. I think Ned still would've done the same thing, still lie and claim Jon as his own son, but would've done everything he could to ensure Lyanna does not marry Robert so she could stay in Winterfell with her son.

The question comes down to, would Robert treat Lyanna and Jon the way he tried to do with Dany when learning she was pregnant. And I don't think I can say conclusively one way or another. Clearly Ned is terrified that the answer is yes, and thats why he quits and desperatly tries to leave the captiol with his daughters. He's terrified of this reaction not for Danys sake but because hes realizing that Roberts love for Lyanna STILL would not protect Jon. He tries to leave the captiol because hes terrified that his best friend would murder Jon if he learned the truth even now, and is living in a trauma asking himself if he'd have killed Lyanna too.

But how Robert would handle Lyanna if she lived, objectively, I do not know.

Robert would try to kill Jon, but would he really harm Lyanna? It's impossible to say. But Lyanna should've lived no matter what. Rhaegar kidnapping her and she survived childbirth, or if that scenario never happened, I fully believe Ned and his brothers would've stepped in if Lyanna was mistreated by Robert. Brandon literally rode to Kings Landing to confront Rhaegar to resuce his sister, had he lived, at the least, Brandon absolutely would've stepped in on Lyannas behalf since he has no emotional attachment to Robert. And I fail to see why Ned would put his friend over the sister he literally risked everything for.

The Starks protect each other. If Ned wasn't willing to side against Robert on his sisters behalf, he never would've hidden Jon from Robert in the first place. He protected Jon because it was his final way of protecting Lyanna.

In the books, I think theres more of an argument to say Robert would've mistreated her, but in the show? I cannot say yes or no, Robert Baratheon in the show is a completely different version of this character.

And I think show Robert is a lot more sympathetic then haters of book Robert will give him credit for. Which I can say, because I, a fan of show Robert actually fucking hate Robert in the books. Get away from Cersei you abuser, I know she's crazy and evil but hiss hiss bite bite.

But really that one line I quoted earlier tells me that he has always had a soft spot for Lyanna, and he knows that being King didn't actually help him move on. In his own way he loves Lyanna, but the way he loves her is just different then the people who are Lyannas actual blood. The same is true for Robert, Ned, and even without realizing so directly, Jon too.

Seven Kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind.

[buttercuparry]

I am mass tagging this because I think our criticism never reaches a larger part of the fandom. People can't comprehend why certain kinds of fan art styles are criticized. I acknowledge that in our enthusiasm to do so, we sometimes hurt fanartists ( in fact a few months ago a fan artist had deactivated and really that shouldn't have happened). So in this post I am trying to address the issue in the best way I know of. This post is about the way asoiaf artists tend to draw the Stark family. And because I am most interested in Arya I have talked about her in this meta. I have put the meta under cut so that if people aren't really interested in this, they can skip it.

I don't understand the genetics of a mixed race family of starks where only Jon/arya is dark skinned ( because Ned is imagined to be dark skinned) but Sansa/bran/Robb/rickon is pale or paler. Often, 80% of fanarts of every single fanartist follows this trend and when someone comments on it, and questions the fan artist on how and why this same style has become universal interpretation via implementing "death of the author" ( as one very recent defense puts it), the fan artist replies in a dismissive and defensive manner. The deflection of this very apparent problem ( and the implications of following the trend), is done by "uno reversing" the accusation of racism. This is absurd because when it is pointed out that something seems off with drawing the "plainer"Starks in a particular way, the intention isn't to single out and point fingers at one particular fan artist. One particular artist isn't doing this thing. The finger is being pointed at the trend of the style that dominates asoiaf fan art. Does this not strike anyone as odd that in 80% of these text interpreted fanart produced by most of the fan artists, the brown haired starks are darker than the red heads? The red heads who are said to be the prettier ones?

I am an Arya fan so i am going to talk about Arya here. Throughout the fandom at large whenever Arya Stark is talked of, it isn't done to analyze her motifs or themes or political importance. No speculation is made of a future that may position her in an office of considerable political power. No, fandom at large talks of Arya as if she were a brute, who kills people needlessly ( see raceforironthrone's meta on how the harrenhal guard didn't need to be killed), and is in need for constant supervision because she is volatile and therefore politically incompetent. There is also this running criticism of Arya Stans using too pretty face casts for her or yassifying her in fanarts, because to the larger fandom Arya is the ugly one. Now here's the thing, the slogan of let little girls be ugly isn't preached for Lyanna Stark. No one is saying let this dead teen be ugly even when Grrm in explicit terms has said Arya looks like Lyanna. No for some reason even when numerous characters talk of Arya looking like and behaving like Lyanna, the fandom at large only acknowledges that she has a spirit and sense of justice similar to Lyanna's. But they would bend over backwards to negate anything that says Arya looks like Lyanna. Why is that?

Then anything relating to Arya being married or having an heterosexual relationship and children born out of the relationship is mocked. I remember a poll where someone very cheekily gave an option specifying that Arya having non bastard kids with Gendry. I don't know if I had read it wrong but the way it was worded- using the term non bastard children...to me it personally seemed like a jab at what arya Stans speculate about Arya possibly marrying and having a family of her own.

I don't think there is anything woke or anything traditionally disruptive in trying to dismiss any and all possibilities of a GNC woman marrying a man and having kids. Sure on the surface, lumping on Arya various sexual identities other than heterosexuality and theorizing that she wouldn't want to have the whole husband/kids routine is very diversifying but if one is to go beyond the surface, then what is to be said about the hesitance of even considering that a GNC woman might enter a heterosexual relationship? What aesthetics prevent people from considering a GNC woman having a regular shmegular life? A GNC woman's sexuality perhaps isn't affecting her gender noncorfomity. ( this isn't to say that a fan can't see or project onto arya their own reality/identities that make them resonate with her, I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the fandom blatantly ignoring Arya checking Gendry out and how much throughout the text family plays a significant role in her storyline. Her one "no that's sansa" cannot dismiss the possibility of her wanting to have a family in her twenties, especially as someone in whose story family plays a core theme.) ( there is also another sensuous scene in the bathhouse with jaqen but uhh...yeah I am not really sure how to talk about it).

So all in all a girl considered ugly by the fandom is often treated as being sexless,and is considered a volatile hotheaded brute and this girl when drawn with her sister is drawn considerably darker. Does this not strike anyone as alarming? Also where there is a discourse on if Arya is ugly or pretty, there is no doubt that Sansa is the prettiest of all the Starks, even Catelyn. Why is it that in the interpretation or via death of the author', Sansa is never drawn darker than Arya? In a mixed family why is Sansa never shown with a darker skin than the rest of brown haired/ red haired starks, not once? Individual interpretation and yet it seems like these individual interpretations have been same all through these years. Now yeah, Lyanna is drawn with darker skin sure but then again her looking like Arya is dismissed and it seems like there is a tendency to connect her with Sansa. Any criticism in this exercise is once again mocked or dismissed.

[candyskiez]

for the thingy, do tma based on what youve listened to so far?

Okay full disclosure to anyone reading this I am not done this podcast!!! I am on season three episode 87, and haven't finished that episode, please do not give me any spoilers or hint at any. Thank you!

Favorite female character: Melanie King. She's just so ridiculously likable. A thing I've noticed is she's very clearly Used to a certain amount of misogyny with her being in the industry that yk, gets you called insane. She's so immediately defensive whenever she thinks she's getting perceived as crazy or lying and you can tell that's something that's happened a million times, especially recently with the whole. Yk. Arrested thing. It's just a detail that's very well implied that idk. It's something I've been thinking about with her even though its not the main reason I like her. Idk how to explain why I like her she's just very very likable. She feels like a person I'd actually run into and she's just some random person going through the Horrors, just another ghost hunter that got really really unlucky. It's one of the big appeals of TMA to me, they all feel so much like just...people. Not like the authors forcing them or like they're Special because Author Says So. They're just random people and how they got into this situation is pretty believable. I love her dynamics with everyone, if an episode has her in it you know it's gonna be really good, she's just a damn good character and I'm really excited and terrified to see where she goes. Please don't kill her rusty quill.

Favorite male character: Jon Sims. He's just so GOOD man. I like when characters become mean not because of not caring but because they care so much and everything is so awful and everything keeps going to shit and it isn't fair! I love characters who are angry because of a deep love for the people around them! He cares so much about everyone and he hates it so much and man. I don't care how many times it gets done I love it so much. I love his development so far. While with Melanie I'm going "don't hurt her give her hot chocolate and take her far away from this mess just let her be happy PLEASE" with Jon I'm like "I need to see him shatter into a million pieces and try to put himself back together with bleeding hands." And from what I understand I'm in for a treat with one of those wishes and fucked with the other. Whoops. He's just a really good protagonist and just...God. This will not be the last time you hear me talk about how much I love Jon. Also an honorable mention for this spot is Tim. If I don't say how much I love Tim soon I'll die. He's just a guy! He doesn't know what the hell is happening and suddenly everything's fucked and he responds so realistically to it and he's just so interesting to me man. Every horror story has a character who knows absolutely nothing about what's happening and Tim does that so well because like. It feels like. Yeah, obviously. If I knew what he did, I would've done that too.

Favorite season: Man idk I'm only three seasons in. I guess season two? It was a really good season. Jon's spiraling was done so well and him becoming more compassionate just when it was a little too late for that KILLED me. Also TIM!!! Tim was a huge highlight of that season for me, he and Jon's relationship made me want to tear out my own organs. Their fight was just so. I understand exactly why they were so furious at each other. I understand exactly why Tim was so mad at Jon. "He's not wrong you know!" "I know." And Jon having to restart the statement because he's too emotional??? Kill me man just kill me. It just was a really excellent season. Jon and Tim were the biggest highlights for me but Martin was also incredible that season and I loved that scene in shit what was the episode. Hide and seek. With the Tim and Martin conversation. Everyone thinks Martin doesn't care just because he's trying to make things better and because he wants things to be okay it's assumed that he's taking sides or doesn't care that these awful things are happening or that he isn't hurt by it too, and like. It's an understandable assumption. I've made that assumption about people in the past, though I'm not proud of it. And it hurts Martin so much because Martin just wants things to be okay, he just wants to be safe and for his life to stop falling apart and for from what I'm understanding the only real connections he seems to have right now to stop tearing each other apart, and people just assume he's Okay with how Jon's acting, or that Jon wasn't also unfair to him because Martin was worried about him. And it's just. Ough. Martins whole Thing in that season had me Thinking about some shit he made me feel some emotions that's for sure. Can't wait to see what happens with him. Oops this was long.

Favorite episode: Okay I'm gonna be honest with you. This is the worst question you can ask me about this show because I for the life of me cannot fucking choose. There are so many good episodes. So I'm just gonna uh. Talk about a bunch? I've narrowed it down to four but it was so hard guys you don't even know.

Hive: This is just a really really good episode and it makes me batshit insane. I think a really good choice was making her actually not a very easy person to get along with. It would've been so easy to just say that she was nice and she tried so hard but she was alone because people were Mean :(. And I think that this makes the statement hit a lot harder especially as someone who's struggled with mental illness for a long time it's just. She hurt people and she can't wrap her head around it. All she takes away from it is I was left alone. All she sees is that nobody gets her, nobody cares about her, everyone hates her now, or did they always hate her? And I can see the exact thought process that led to her being so taken in by the worms. Like okay here is this thing that needs her, that can't leave her because they need her to survive, so they love her. They love her and they don't care that she's apparently toxic, she doesn't know what that means, she doesn't know what she did, but whatever she did doesn't matter because why would it matter to them. They think she's beautiful, that she's perfect the way she is, they make sense to her and she doesn't have to change. It doesn't matter that she's not a good person, because it doesn't need her to be. It loves her. Like. I'm not saying 2023 me would've absolutely been down to get possessed by worms but at that point in my life I would've absolutely stuck my hand in the nest too. Like. I get it, man. Especially off the hinges of July or November I was a fucking wreck man. I get her. I really like how this show portrays distress. It's not cute. It's not pretty. People do horrible things because they don't know what else to do. Sometimes you blow up every relationship you have, sometimes you stick your hand in a wasp nest to be loved by the only thing you can imagine still loving you. It happens.

The smell of blood: MELANIEEEEE. She stole my heart in this episode. I was so determined not to like her and I was sold by the end of the episode. Her dynamic with Jon was so fun and also just. The insight into how she thinks! I love the statements that are more like a conversation the most anything character interaction heavy is bound to make me eat my own limbs. The...OK I don't wanna say chemistry bc that implies romance but I also don't know what else to call it? They just bounce off each other really well they're SO similar and because of that their defenses against a Lifetime Of Bullshit will clash so hard but then when they can actually talk to each other earnestly they click so well. And just. God I don't even know how to explain why I love Melanie. She's just so??? She puts her show first until she suddenly can't anymore, she immediately expects hostility or doubt and it closes her off from any help or connections and she can't quite get that actually sometimes people just genuinely are worried about you. It's avain it's really clear she's been in the industry for a long time because she's so used to mistreatment she immediately lashes out at anyone who gets too close to acting like that. Shes clearly been through a fuck ton and I'm really excited to learn more about her. That's another thing tma does well the characters are so shaped by their experiences and they make so much sense.

Hide and seek: Godddd. I love this episode. I love this episode!!! Where do I even start!! I mean okay Jon and Tim are a major focus in it so obviously I'm gonna be having a great time. Like. God. Where do I even start. First off Tim's view of Jon is so AUGHHHH this episode because. It hurts and also I cannot blame him at all even a little bit for a second. There are so many good lines in this episode. Also Martin and Tim's interactions in this episode? Insane, so good, told me so much about both of them and anyone who knows me knows I love character analysis so you KNOW I was eating my phone the whole time. I don't even know how to explain what's so good about this episode because it's just. All of it. All of it is so good. It's just a really good episode what else can I even say here. Jon apologizing to Martin and Tim when he thought he was about to die killed me. Every Tim moment this episode killed me. If I was held at gun point I'd probably say this episode is my overall favorite but like. Don't make me choose okay.

A guest for Mr Spider: When I say this statement completely changed how I see Jon I mean it completely changed how I see Jon. It changed how I saw literally everything he's done throughout the podcast. Everything he does makes so much sense with this context but especially his actions regarding the not Sasha. Of course he sent everyone away. Of course he felt like he had to solve it all by himself. After all nobody else could get hurt, because it's His responsibility and He didn't notice and He should be the one dealing with the consequences anyway. He has this view of himself where he's like I'm the only one that should deal with this and yet. It's not arrogance or not entirely. It's this mess of I have to do it by myself and i cannot trust anyone else with this they WILL mess it up but it's not even that he thinks highly of his own capabilities he just judges (fears) everyone else so much. And his trust issues make so much damn sense in retrospect like. His sense of safety was completely shattered when he was so young, and he grew up feeling undesired and like a burden and. Of course he assumes any act of kindness is an act, of course he's so suspicious of anyone who tries to get close, he never had those connections. This episode is just. So good. It explains so much about him and is just a really good start to the season and I can't wait to see what happens next.

Favorite ship: So far, Jonmartin. Yes I know I've been very basic with all these but like. It's common for a reason they're so interesting?? Like yes very sweet but also they're so fascinating. There's something going on there I can't wait to see what happens. But also I'm eyeing a bunch of other ships too. I am a multishipper by trade. I will whack any character together. I'm kinda eyeing jontim very closely. I will probably whack any interesting protagonist/antagonist dynamic together before you can do anything because they intrigue me.

A character I'd die defending: Honestly all of them. I get all of them. They're just people. Most of the decisions they make are ones I would've made in their situations, I can't get seriously mad at any of them.

A character I can't sympathize with: So far, none.

A character I grew to love: Melanie. She dragged me in kicking and screaming.

My anti otp: So far, none!

I once again ask you don't say any spoilers or hints, thank you!

[cirrus-grey]

Hello! I'm the person who asked you about episode 169, thank you so much for replying! I especially loved hearing your opinion about Jon's paranoia, and how he's probably still recovering from it, because it never crossed my mind that it might still be relevant to this situation - but you're totally right!

He genuinely doesn’t realize that Martin might want to find another way to go until he asks (“You’re sure there isn’t another way?”) and then literally the first thing Jon says is “I’m sorry,” because it doesn’t hit him until that moment that he’s just assumed Martin’s willingness the entire way without asking him. - you said this and later part of the conversation was probably what people had the most divided opinions on, and I can see why.

Though I don't think I read Jon's "I'm sorry" as apology, but more as sympathising? Kind of like:

"Well, it’s the best I can do!" - Jon, still under the impression Martin will be glad to see Jude killed

"You’re sure there isn’t another way?" - Jon says nothing to this, so I thought this was the first moment when he thought something might be wrong and didn't know how to answer. But then Martin says, "Yeah, I know, the journey will be the journey, blah blah ominous blah."

Now, after your reply, I think Jon takes it as "burning building doesn't sound good, but obviously any other choice will be just as bad, so it's fine", but the first time I listened it sounded like Martin was saying "yeah, I know we have to go through certain places", and that's why I was so surprised Jon didn't correct that misconception. But looking at the next lines, I think he only understood that Martin was thinking they have to go through after Martin's next words. His "I'm sorry" now feels like sympathising that they have to do something unpleasant either way - I kind of can't imagine he'd be so cagey about there being another way if he understood how distressed Martin really was.

"It’s fine. I know you wouldn’t take me through if we didn’t actually need to go through, so…" - it seems like this is when Jon realises he and Martin have been having two different conversations, though he has not yet realised that Martin really doesn't want to go. It's clear from some of the next parts of the conversation he already sees that Martin is conflicted, and that knowing there is another way is making him reconsider things ("You said you were onboard." / "I was! I am. I just thought-" / "It wouldn't hurt?"), but he still doesn't understand just how much.

"John, is there another way?" / "I mean – sort of? Maybe?" - I wonder if this just residual caginess resulting from having to have a difficult conversation and knowing he'll have to admit some difficult things, or if he genuinely didn't look at other options before. Since he took a hard turn after the roots, I'm thinking the former, but. who knows?

Sorry if this is too much dissecting for you, I just had so many thoughts after you replied, but I don't want to overwhelm you so please let me know if you're not up to this! And thank you again for replying to my previous ask!

Previous post here.

I always appreciate extra analysis! I don’t have much to add though, because… yeah! You make a very good point, and I could definitely see this being the arc of Jon’s perception - slightly delayed from what I was saying before, taking just a bit longer to catch on to the fact that Martin thinks this is the only way through.

Though, on a slight tangent, I’ve never really been certain that they can go around? Jon’s “Sort of, maybe” combined with the fact that they bring up Arthur Nolan has always had me suspecting that the “other way” is still through fire, just… not Jude Perry’s section of the fire. They have to pass through the Desolation at some point, and I’d imagine there aren’t too many sections of it that aren’t burning.

Anyway, that doesn’t really effect any of the analysis here, but it could be another level of Jon’s hesitance - he really doesn’t want to have to tell Martin “yes, there is another way, but it’s also on fire.”

[akaikali]

TMAGP EP 17 REACTION (SPOILERS)

CELIA GIRL WHAT THE FUCK. WHAT DO YOU MEAN AGAIN WHAT IS IT WITH YOU AND WAKING UP ON VEHICULAR ROADWAYS

So she woke up in Oxford that's what I'm hearing. Does girlie go dimension hopping in her sleep but wake up in random places bc of it???

The way Celia said "absolutely" just gave me butterflies also Sam MOVE Alice is right you're like a baby foal now let me show you have to rizz up a milf-

Celia girl what is GOING ON

MAGNUS STATEMENT???? HEY HEY NOW WHAT THE FUCK. WHO HAS THE FILES WITH ALL THE MAGNUS INSTITUTE EXPERIMENTED PEOPLE. I DONT HAVE IT BUT MAYBE WE COULD MATCH THE SUBJECT NUMBER TO A NAME

it is kinda concerning to me that after Celia talks to Sam that we get a MAGNUS statement

BIG SOFT LOOKING GUY WHO STUMBLED OVER EVERY WORD???? BOOKISH LOOKING GUY WITH SERIOUS MILES???? WAIT NO WHAT THE FUCK WAIT WAIT WAIT YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS. JONMARTIN???? IS THAT YOU????

Going away for a while???? Lonely-coded lmao and also me-coded

Magnus Institute Outreach Centre??? What the fuck??? They're like. Pretending to be a help center or like. A real institute???

Harcourt House? Sounds like a rich manor or something. A friend of Lady Mowbray's perhaps?

THE OTHER MYSELF???? IM SORRY WHAT THE FUCK NOW????

Meeting a successful version of yourself GONE WRONG

Oh my God wait WAIT IS THIS GUY'S OTHER VERSION FROM A DIFFERENT UNIVERSE??? IS THAT WHY DETAILS ARENT LINING UP FOR THEM????

Holy shit. Holy shit what the fuck. What the FUCK. Oh my God. So this is. This guy is literally just a fucked up person. Like. Dear God.

Oh my God it's his dad. Okay well. If the dad was a shitty person...I mean I don't condone it but I can see why that might have happened?

"Your world and mine are pretty similar" What does that mean????

This kind of reminds me of the statement in TMA season 4 where that woman keeps killing people because she's a good person and donates to charity and can make a difference and deserves to live. I wonder if this was the way she thought in the beginning. Although, she was killing innocent people. This guy killed a sadistic murderer.

OH MY GOD CELIA DEFINITELY REPLACED THIS UNIVERSE CELIA. HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. OKAY I DONT KNOW IF SHE KILLED HER BUT SHE DID SOMETHING TO REPLACE THIS WORLD'S CELIA.

This...Kinda also parallel's Not Sasha replacing Sasha and no one knowing it. It's just that Celia isn't actively trying to harm people. At least she seems to feel guilty for replacing this universe Celia??

JMJ ERROR AGAIN?? but I thought we just found our in universe jmart as well.

Gwen's a tech girlie???? Also Dyhard shippers are being fed this ep lol

Ethernet PROTOCOLS??? Lmao I'm kidding I'm kidding

OH DYHARD SHIPPERS ARE REALLY BEING FED HUH MY GOD SKDHAOJFDB

I REALLY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO SAY. SO WE MIGHT HAVE AN IN UNIVERSE JONMARTIN. AND THEN CELIA MAY HAVE MURDERED THE IN UNIVERSE VERSION OF HERSELF TO REPLACE HER. GIRL WHAT THE FUCK. I really hope she didn't murder her but maybe it's like...possession? Body sharing???

Also I realized that the possible jonmartin sighting is from another universe not the one that we're in. But that's so funny to me because in SOME universe, Jon had to go to COURT MANDATED THERAPY

So from what I understand, this guy is from a third universe, not the TMA or TMAGP universe, and he managed to stumble into the TMAGP universe. I'm saying this bc I hope that in some other universe, jonmartin have a chance.

[roboneco]

Who sent the email to Sam?

It was "from Jon" as Sam said, or at the very least it seemed like that. It is only a name. Could be "him". Could be fake. But why the name Jon, specifically?

First, all we know about the email is that it was sent with a name, an address, and from an internal email. The name and address being of Gerry specifically, and not of Gertrude because she's not who Sam asked for. That's it.

Here's where I got confused. Why exactly did Sam ask Gerry about the magnus institute?? From this alone, this shouldn't occur to him. Maybe he researched the name and ,as he claimed then, found a list of the kids who were there.

But...well... while Sam is competent & of course he was always obsessed with the institute after what happened to him....if he had a way to find the list himself, do you think he would have waited until someone sent him an email to go look for answers??

Of course not! He'd have already checked every single name on the list! Or at least looked for better leads than just begging people to trauma dump on him. I think someone else gave him the list. Or really the idea to ask about the list.

(I for some reason can't upload pictures so I'll settle for copy pasting the parts I want).

SAM: Right. Of course. I was wondering if you knew anything about the Magnus Institute?

SAM: I was on one of their gifted kids programs and – um – I got hold of a list of a few of the other kids, and thought it might be nice if we could get in contact, swap stories and that…

GERTRUDE: I see. Well, I’m sorry, but I don’t think Gerry can help you –

GERRY: (casually) Yeah, I barely remember any of it.

SAM: Oh, so you were a candidate?

To me it sounds like Sam was winging it. He hesitated before mentioning the list as if he wasn't sure it existed. he then seems almost surprised when Gerry confirms he was in the institute.

My guess is he never saw the list! My guess is whoever sent Sam the email had heard about his connection to the institute, and sent him a lead vague enough not to cause suspicion to who may have sent it & THEN personally planted in his head the idea that the lead & institute were connected.

Now, who do we know that: knows of the name Jon, interested in the magnus institute, and Sam trusts enough to listen to their advice about something he already wanted to do?

Bingo. It is Celia. Celia is the one who sent the Jon email & I have more proof.

1- this exchange right after leaving Gerry's house:

SAM: …Thanks for coming with me, Celia. I know we’ve only been working together a few weeks.

CELIA: Hey, it was my idea, remember?

hm? Your idea you say. good to know, bestie!

2- it makes sense for her to use any name really. I don't think it matters. But we should remember that when she listened to her first case (by Chester) right after that Sam got his email. Literally in the same episode.

3- she was in a podcast with Georgie in this world (as far as Sam & google know at least) so it makes sense for her to be able to search & find the list!!

4- this is weak but well.... She works in the OIAR... She has an internal email and could make another one (or hack her way through or something).

I am sure there are other things that I just can't remember right now but anyway that leaves some questions

Why did she take the painting?

Why Gerry? I understand how she could find the list but why choose him? I doubt either Melanie or Georgie mentioned him before. Was it random? Plot reasons? Or maybe her target wasn't Gerry, but Gertrude.

She could know about Gertrude. She was the last archivist after all. But she wants a reason to go without someone suspecting her personally. So after some research (stalking) figures out she has a roommate. And hey would you look at that. The guy's name is in the list of kids experimented on by the magnus institute. And oh? Who is also on the list? Her new coworker. Now isn't that a funny coincidence! It would be a shame if someone were to.... Maybe.... Use this opportunity for totally, definitely ethical reasons.....such as sending Sam a little email & connecting him with an old friend!

I think of this because Celia is the one who asked Gerry if he lives alone. She directed the conversation to ask about Gigi.

Anyways I had maaaannny more thoughts about this. Alas, I am tired & going to bed.

Have I mentioned that Celia lives I'm my head rent free. Sorry, wanted to say it, in case it wasn't obvious.

[allovesthings]

Let's talk about Arya and death.

Now before I start I would like to say something. this post isn't about a theory post about how Arya will die at the end. I don't think she will, I think she is going to be one of the survivors. I really dislike any theories where she does die because I love her,she is my favorite character. Also I just kinda don't see the point of making theories about how characters will die. It's just boring.

That said, Arya's link with death is really interesting. I already talked about the theory that she can hear (and maybe talk to) the dead. We have at least one concrete moment where it actually happens in Harrenhal in Arya X of a clash of kings in front of the heart tree and we have several other moments that could be that but were vague enough where he could just be her imagining it (she thinks she hears Syrio during the King's Landing wipe out and she hears Weasel's mother after she dies). We also have the moments with the dragon skulls. And to be fair, this might be foreshadowing other things like her future relationship with the last Targaryens but the skulls are dead and she still feels hostility (at first) and then protected like they were old friends (the second time).

There is also the fact that she is the only one who has a link to all the fire wrights. Arya met Beric and interacted with him and saw him die, She and Nymeria got her mother out of the water for the brotherhood to find and Jon died for her.She is linked to the three of them in death.

And then we get to the faceless men and while she is learning what mercy killing is with them and even before them and is literally wearing the face of the dead, she is clashing with their ideologies a lot. She doesn't like killing if it isn't justice in some way (that's why she is not going to be able to be an assassin). She thinks if there is a chance to live better then people should take it that's why she says:"they should have killed the masters" and later on when she wears blind beth's face she thinks the person who deserved to die was the person who abused her. She is also aware that there are inumane punishments worse than death and doesn't think anyone should go through that.

Which is why I think, at some point in the story later on, she might be an actual link between the dead and the living, I like the theory that maybe it is possible to negotiate a pact of ice and fire and she'll be a part of that. With the capacity to talk or even understand death and the dead but with the belief that being alive gives you chances and opportunities.

One thing that seems to corroborate that is the fact that she has water motifs all over her chapters and it seems to be her main element in a story where ice means death and fire means life, making her the person in the middle.

[mandatory-blog-stop-asking]

Weird thing, but I miss Alfred.

It's shaping up to be one of the longest "deaths" of a famous, legacy secondary character, at least in modern DC history. And in that way, it served the narrative pretty well, subverting the usual problems with death in comics. Sure, it was all over an ego trip some bad former Editor in Chief decided to have on a whim; King didn't really plan to kill off Alfred so nonchalantly and it wasn't meant to stick. People know that, it's well documented and they even had foreshadowing that he was Clayface being a part of the plan. So the fact that it sticks should be lauded, right? This is, after all, how death works.

And, sure, it made some characters grow. Bruce, specifically, moving to a brownstone and taking care of his son all by himself is a genuinely cool idea and I'm enjoying seeing him bond with Damian in ways he never bonded with the others. Dick as a billionaire philanthropist dedicating his newfound fortune to Alfred, his late sponsor, is a genuine stroke of genius. Actual change and progress in comic books, holy shit. A feast Spider-Man fans don't even remember how it tastes!

Yet it sometimes feels like you're reading a Batman book in an empty house, because Alfred is gone, and it was over nothing. An unplanned death that took him suddenly with no real gravitas or preparation. Not exactly the same -- okay, not the same by a wide margin, -- but it kinda reminds me of how Buffy fans reacted to The Body.

The character was here, and now they're not, and it genuinely feels empty and real in a way you're not really expecting popcorn media to feel. There's no power fantasy or melodrama or anything. Someone broke his neck and threw his body on the floor, and that's the end of Alfred Pennyworth.

And like, yeah, man, people obviously write stories about other versions that are alive and flashbacks. Nobody is literally gone from comics, things don't move forward *exclusively*, Alfred is a brand unto himself and will never be truly gone. It's the same reason why aging up Jon Kent isn't that big a deal; Super Sons will release as long as someone gets the approval, it's just going to be a flashback. It's fine. But to see the world having to move forward without him has been quite something, you know? People have had big personal moments that he's not there for.

Dick and Barbara got back together, Jason moved to the Hill, Tim got a boyfriend -- it's the kind of stuff these kids could rely on Alfred to talk about, or to help out with, or to simply Be There as a zealous figure for them, and he's just. Not. And the story moves on all the same, yet now it feels like there's a panel missing, somewhere.

Albeit they had like two or three individual times when the actual fucking ghost of Alfred Pennyworth came to say goodbye and peace out to Bruce, I still think it's a pretty solid guess that he'll come back before the end of the decade. The nature of comics means sometimes you need a back from the dead story to keep things fresh, and those can be done extremely well -- Resurrection of Magneto might be the best thing released in the Krakoa era, as far as fully realized minis go. But...

Shit, Alfred missed Damian going to school, you know? That's really sad. I miss Alfred. In a way I'll never miss Uncle Ben or the Wayne couple, I really miss opening a monthly and reading the latest wit out of Alfred's mouth at his silly son and his funny crusade. The nature of comic books being infinite until they're cancelled means this sort of relationship just doesn't get cut like this very often, and I can't recall the last time I *cared* when they tried cutting it.

It will be an awkward day when he comes back and it's back to normal business again, honestly. There's now an understanding of what Batman is without Alfred that I feel they don't have a great way of addressing. Don't really envy the writer who gets the job.

[theconstitutionisgayculture]

I think it's time for me to come clean with something I've never admitted to anybody before. And it's not something I've done or anything like that. It's not an action I've taken. It's an opinion I have that I know is something that would cause a lot of...let's say strife with most people if they knew I had it. It's not a controversial opinion I'm particularly proud of the way I'm proud of my opinion on John Lennon being a boring hack, or my opinions on YouTube content creators being, by default, talentless nobodies compared to literally any other professional creative, or my opinion that sport hunting journalists and politicians should be, if not actually legal, than at least one of those victimless crimes that never actually get prosecuted. This opinion I'm about to share is something that my own parents would never understand if I were to admit it to them, which, to be honest, does sting a bit when I let myself think about it too much.

I know most of you don't follow me for personal BS, and I respect that, so I'm going to put a cut before I state this opinion so people who don't really care to learn more about me as a person can easily give it a skip. For the rest of you, all I ask is that you try to keep an open mind, and understand that this is as hard for me to admit as it is for you to read.

George Carlin is a terrible fucking comedian.

I know. I know.

But hear me out.

I'm not saying he's not funny, because he can be. Certainly he was hilarious to 12 year old Little Me who would watch clips of his acts on Comedy Central long after my parents went to bed. But as I got older, I started to notice something. It wasn't that I was "growing out" of George Carlin. That's silly to say. That's like saying someone grew out of watching Eddie Murphy's Raw. You're not even supposed to be watching that stuff until you're grown.

No, the thing I noticed was that he isn't actually a comedian.

He's a blogger.

Again, he does tell jokes, but telling jokes does not a comedian make. Everyone tells jokes. What makes a comedian a comedian is that they are so funny that people will pay money to laugh at their jokes. And that's not George Carlin. That's not why people go to see George Carlin. They might think it is, but it's not. No, they go to see him for the same reason he stands up in front of them and speaks.

They want to hear their own opinions parroted back at them, and then they want to cheer. Just like George doesn't really want to make people laugh. He wants to give his opinions on social issues and politics, and then he wants everyone to clap and validate those opinions. The laughter is completely secondary. It's not even necessary past the point of telling just enough jokes to both get people in the door, and to allow those people the illusion that they're at a comedy show and not reading a blog.

And Carlin isn't the only blogger pretending to be a comedian. You probably know quite a few already. The Jon Stewarts, John Olivers, and Jimmy Kimmels of the world who just want to be cheered for stating their, often idiotic, opinions on things. I used to call this "Applause Comedy", and I've always hated it with a passion. But these days I just call it blogging, because that's what it is. And George Carlin is its grandfather. His entire career is based on "telling it like it is" instead of "telling jokes". And let's be fair, some of his opinions are right. Of course, these days the people he roasts are usually not on the same side of the political divide as the ones he was intending on roasting. He is another terminal victim of the 60s, so don't ever mistake him for being even remotely right wing.

(I wonder if, were he still alive, would he be one of those few boomerlibs that actually recognize how batshit insane the left has become? Or would he be one of the ones that now supports all the things they railed against 40+ years back because their identity as a leftist is more important than their supposed principals?

I could speculate, but I won't.)

But being able to comment intelligently or eloquently on political or social issues isn't a skill one should look for in a comedian. And getting cheered for stating an opinion isn't something a real comedian should look for in their audience. A comedian tells jokes. He makes people laugh. He tells stories and weaves tales and creates an atmosphere of joy. He allows us to keep the outside world at bay for an hour or so, and leaves us with a small shield against that world when his show is over in the form of fond memories and shared enjoyment.

You're more likely to come out of a George Carlin show more angry at the world than when you went in.

And that's not comedy.

That's not entertainment.

That's blogging.

[syndrossi]

So I have been thinking that Jon while being more trusting of his close family compared to Rhaegar who understandably always stays alert is pretty disconnected from it in itself? He doesn't feel the need to pick a Targaryen name for neither himself or his hatchling and isn't all that invested in Targaryen family history or legacy. Same goes for being a Stark. He follows old gods and carries himself with a certain manner but that comes with being raised in the north. First and foremost he's a bastard, has always been and ironically still is on some level despite what Rhea and Daemon did for him and Rhaegar. The world has never let him forget and he certainly never has. He still thinks about it: before coming to King's Landing when him and Rhaegar thought they were bastards, when meeting Jace, Luke and Joff, seeing them being cared for by Rhaenys. I really love this theme and I am intrigued with where it will go. I wonder what Rhaegar thinks about it since he knows more about Jon and his past than anyone and as an adult was very connected to both his house and the prophecy regarding it. I am also curious whether Daemon will fully pick up on it. He has been doing it a bit already, giving Jon space and noticing his distress and melancholy (damn Daemon doesn't get enough credit for being sharp! I mean it's fair since we have Rhaegar right there and Daemon's feelings cloud his senses sometimes). On one hand here Jon is a young bastard boy who grew up in the Vale and has been violently pulled away from that life (which Daemon acknowledges to himself!) but on the other he has been aware of his parentage for quite some time. This matter intrigues me because it feels so real. Jon's struggle with finding his identity in his families is a real thing. I am excited to see where it's all headed. Wonder what perspective Daemon and Rhaegar will bring with them, since as I said they both were and are closely tied to Targaryen's family history, legacy and prophecies!

Yeah, Jon's disconnect with both of his heritages (Stark and Targaryen and now Royce) is an ongoing theme. For his Targaryen heritage, he didn't learn of it until he was an adult, so he never had a chance to connect with it. It's one of the reasons I have him as not really bonding to Rhaegal--whether because Dany's dragons were all semi-bonded to her or because Jon didn't really accept that part of him fully, it's hard to say.

He's a child again, so there is in theory a chance for him to actually grow to accept his heritage, but then there's the wrinkle of his Royce ties now. It's quite possible he'll be tapped for Lord of Runestone, so what does that mean for his identity? Is he forever doomed to be trapped between two houses/regions, neither of which quite feel like home? Can a person be two things? Or even three? (His past connection to the North hasn't disappeared suddenly, after all.)

I don't even know if it's a struggle Jon is particularly conscious of. He's used to being an outsider, not quite fitting in, always different/held apart.

Daemon may or may not be helpful with this. Although he's softened on the "RUNESTONE? ABORT ABORT" mindset due to Rhaegar's struggles, that doesn't mean he wants either of his children to embrace their Vale identity, and he still would prefer if they abandoned it entirely. If anything, he probably worries they don't feel worthy of their Targaryen heritage and will overcorrect in pushing it on them. (Rhaegar's not going to mind, so long as Daemon isn't outright disparaging the Vale, but it may feel overwhelming to Jon.)

(Daemon's very sensitive himself about Targaryen heritage, as he feels that people like the Hightowers are pushing to erase it, which is another reason why he's more likely to be aggressive in preserving it through his children. He sees it as defending against it being lost.)

Rhaegar is more likely to guess what's bothering Jon and try to help him work through it since, as you mentioned, he has a lot more context than Daemon. How exactly he thinks it should be solved, and how Daemon helps (or doesn't) and what Jon feels about it all is for us to watch unfold!