#scream 3 criticisms

[sharpth1ng]

Obviously it doesn't apply to Debaser but I was wondering how you feel about Scream 3 and the narrative that it was all orchestrated by Roman. I feel myself constantly surrounded by people downplaying Billy's and Stu's role (with Roman also claiming Maureen's death) I felt like they take away a lot of our horror husbands' autonomy. When I watched it I feel like Roman gave Billy a hint and the rest was them (it also didn't feel like Billy really used Stu as the guy to take the fall like Roman said.) so idk I feel weird about how people see it and was curious about your thoughts?

Sorry if it's already been asked!

I honestly think Scream 3 is an instance of some pretty bad screen writing in the context of the original trilogy. The dialogue and self-contained plot is mostly fine, I like the concept of the movie taking place on set with the director as the killer, but the reveal also weakens the impact of the first movie, which is still by far the best one in the franchise.

Honestly I dislike even the concept that Roman inspired Billy at all, part of what I like about the original is the fact that the motive isn't grand or justified, it's very much teenage bullshit, even if it matters a lot to Billy. It's petty, it's overkill, and with every murder after Maureen it's very obviously a weak excuse for the killing spree they go on.

The fact is that originally scream wasn't going to be a franchise. Roman was added in after the fact as a cause for the events of the first movie. Saw can pull that shit off because its a soap opera basically, but I expect a tighter plot from scream. I also dislike the way Roman's motivation pulls Maureen back into the situation again, and especially the fact that it ads sexual assault to her backstory. I found that unnecessary.

In context of the themes in the original trilogy I think it would have worked better not to connect Roman's motive back to scream 1 in that way. Scream 1 is a deconstruction of horror, scream 2 is a deconstruction of sequels, so scream 3 should deal with what we tend to see happening when a horror franchise gets popular enough to have 3 movies (and it sort of does? Just not as well as I think it could have).

At that point, it becomes part of the popular culture, its not just a genre flick anymore. We see funko pops and parodic depictions of the killers, knockoff merch, and sometimes we see real life acts of violence being blamed on them (Like with Childs play 3), because they're so omnipresent they're hard to avoid. We already see this happening in Scream 2 with the popularity of the Stab franchise and with Mickey, but I would have taken this a step further for Scream 3.

Roman shouldn't have been related to anyone in the original movie, and that should have been played as plot twist.

Roman's sole motive should have been to make a new movie, and to raise the stakes for the new millennium. In the 2000's we start to see a lot more gore than we got on screen before (think final destination, it comes out the same year as scream 3) and I think making a point of commenting on the need to raise the stakes for a desensitized audience that's already used to the state of play could have worked well.

So yeah, I don't like a lot about scream 3, I do not like Roman's motive or his involvement in the events of the first movie- because you're totally right, it does take Billy and Stu's agency in a way that makes Scream 1 hit a little less hard. Also you're right about the fact that it doesn't really feel like Billy is setting Stu up as a fall guy- because it wasn't a fucking part of the original script, it's a retcon.

Sorry for the rant lmao I have feelings.

[floweroflaurelin]

How do you want to do this?

—

Goodbye, Faithful Caregiver.

[andi-o-geyser]

fym “PROBLEMATIC” the only problem is going to be you trying to walk tomorrow. go get pegged

[saturdaysky]

traveling today! have a sketch, my dear shadowgasts

[ittybittyremy]

The beautiful thing about Dorym's slow burn is that it can be divided into 5 eras...

I have a crush on you and even I'm not aware of it (EXU)

I'll just be here pining away, don't mind me (E1 - E14)

Distance makes the heart grow fonder but I feel insecure about my feelings for you [aka: "oh"] (E15 - E93)

I love you, I need you, I'll take care of you (E93 - E111)

The feelings are mutual but we have to focus on saving the world (E112 ->)

[dragonageruinedmylife]

Obsessed with Matt's storytelling for so many reasons all the time but the lore drop about the Matron of Ravens reaffirms that. Because it was love. Of course it was love.

A mortal became a god because there was friendship, companionship, respect, love. He asked her to replace him. They created the rite together. It never worked for all the ambitious wizards that tried after her (for many reasons, but) because they were missing the most important piece.

[blorbologist]

"Drowning in guilt won't bring you what you want"

"And what is it I want?"

👀

[crystal-lillies]

SCREAMING CRYING THROWING UP

THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[zwoftt]

WEEKLY DORYM MOMOS N OTHER STUFF!!! (in no particular order)))

the chemistry between bells hells and the mighty nein is just so good. i had an absolute blast watching

the settle nod orym gives when jester says dorian is “really handsome” when shaking dorian’s hand

”mr. dorian” cad says when calling over to dorian, who looks a little startled at the professional nickname

dorian nodding in agreement to orym’s plan, as he normally does.

the way dorian tries to show off his abs next to beau after orym asks her what her routine is. the laughter afterwards when he gets embarrassed!!!!

jester winning over braius and getting more backstory than anyone else. so golden.

the jealousy of dorian when he sees how many people are in relationships and [not him] because he’s being a scaredy cat

caleb knocking sense into orym. CALEB KNOCKING SENSE INTO ORYM!!!

anybody else think dorian was trying to set up braius and veth really hard just to get him off of orym??

no thoughts just dorian and yasha bonding over music

the nervous glances robbie and liam share when they’re thinking about what to do with their characters …. especially after robbie tried to knock on orym’s door earlier in the episode but it was drowned out by shenanigans

the frantic inspiration dorian gives to braius when he’s painting orym

everyone getting so silent and so excited when dorian knocks on orym’s door. so is liam! his eyes light up immediately!

the whole confession scene was just so, so, so good. so beautifully well done. it made sense for both characters, and honestly so satisfying to see the moment happen after three years of consecutive pining/yearning. dorian giving orym the chance to make his own choices, and orym curling up in dorian’s embrace immediately just to be there,,, “not wanting to spoil the moment”. some of my favorite lines though, “let me comfort you for once,” from dorian; unaware that he WAS[is] in fact orym’s form of comfort but also implying that dorian finds immense comfort in orym, and orym’s “this is okay.” accepting the fact he is in love with dorian, finally, and truly. INTERLOCKING THEIR FINGERS. sound familiar??? something he couldn’t do with will in the vision???? but he instead does it now with dorian????? uuuuuhghhhhghhhhhh …. dorian fantasizing about them before falling asleep to the sound of orym’s breathing,,, orym staying awake longer to once again watch dorian sleep before passing out too.

also the fact the confession scene wasn’t too dramatic but still surprising and amazingly done just makes that feel so much more REAL. like how REAL LIFE confessions would be with highly traumatized people. not even mad they didn’t kiss yet because boy… just—- ugjjjjhh it was so beautiful, so raw. and it was robbie’s first time doing a romance roleplay too!!!

in the cooldown and [from introspection] robbie says dorian is very inexperienced with love and the feeling of it- since he was sheltered for so long; so orym is basically his first love(but dorian is just also super nervous and respectful towards will and orym’s relationship so that explains why he was so careful about expressing himself too.) and liam mentions orym was too shy to do anything himself so that’s why he had his other character go in there and just slap him on the ass because he wanted orym to talk to dorian somehow. which means that both robbie(dorian) and liam(orym) WANTED to have that exact moment between them, BOTH WANTED them to talk. and also the entire cast was fawning over them, matt getting teary eyed and the girls whispering and laughing to each other, sam getting excited himself and tal just smiling like a dork. everyone was just so proud of them!

DORYM NATION HOW ARE WE FEELING FOR NEXT EPISODES??? IM SO EXCITED TO SEE THE AWKWARD LAUGHTER, LOVESICK FLIRTATION AND EVEN MORE FROM OUR FAVORITE BOYS now time to start the cycle again of waiting years for them to kiss (i hope not please god)

[shorthaltsjester]

there are literally no standouts in downfall because everyone sat down at that table and said hey you wanna see something cool and proceeded to Become their characters but idk if it’s because they’re beside each other and that aids the dynamic or just because it’s the delicious similarities and insurmountable distance between the god of death and the god of (in various ways) life but ayden and emhira’s interactions were so chewy and delicious. i’ll be thinking of their exchange fairly early on after ayden cast lesser restoration on that old man and emhira not cruelly but just simply stating “you cannot heal everything.” and ayden’s equally simple reply “we can always try.” emhira seeing the family trist has built and wondering at the presence of children, “surprised there is laughter in such a horrible place” and i know she’s speaking of hawk’s hill but i wonder if she is also speaking of exandria itself in some ways. the delicious space between in and out of character that only really happens in improv stories where as brennan is narrating and says “in this dark room” and nick interrupts and adds “it is not dark.” brennan’s incisive point in the cooldown that while the love that ayden and trist have for mortals and for exandria is warm and the kind of love someone would likely Want from gods, there is something maybe more honest or whole about emhira who says . actually these mortals are little shits that will kill you not because they fear you but because they hate you. whose very existence should be (and still often fails to be) a reminder that the gods can be usurped by mortals. the insight nick shared in the cooldown that ayden does not forget emhira’s origins but in a way dismisses them, that the god of death is a different beast. ayden wanting to find. way to save the people of aeor, insisting that the prime deities Win if they can find a way to do so. emhira reminding everyone that death is inevitable (and she does not add anything to clarify that she intends such a statement to only exist for mortals) as she argues for them to work to take down aeor and the people in it. the fact that the god with the most present connection to mortality is also the one given the most explicit clarification that she Is the god we know as SILAHA calls her the matron, brennan’s narration clarifies purvon is her champion, taliesin as asha asks for clarification on the recognition of emhira as a god and prompting the familiar spectre of a woman in a white mask.

i want to be very clear that when i say there are no standouts i Mean it because i’ve been awed and endeared and intrigued by every single character choice everyone made and as always brennan’s narration is so incredibly well suited for the mission impossible greek tragedy vibes that comes with this story and i’m so fucking delighted by the fact that laura, ashley, and taliesin are playing gods that their characters have known quite well in the past. i’m incredibly excited by what we’ve already gotten to see from abubakar, nashir, and nick and cannot imagine what other greatness is to come. i’m psyched to see the relationship between asha and the law bearer and am delighted that (perhaps for now perhaps for the whole arc) it is being seen through the lens of “my wife promised me a visit with apples and all i got was a rock ice emissary”. i also have many incoherent thoughts about the fact that, of the players who appeared as the same character in the opening and the story, taliesin’s ash and asha are the ones whose name remains the most unchanged.

i’m obsessed with the fact that this creature sent as a stand in by the god of law and duty believes his primary gift is love. while there is a certain mourning and sadness to every god we see, that SILAHA has a certain playful whimsy and jofyful curiosity about the world. that the only one of them who has been mortal before stops to steal an imp necklace from the neck of a drunk on the train (and that moment between brennan’s narration that this man will be dead by morning but, with death standing invisible in front of him, he is incapable of seeing it coming, and then laura as emhira breathing in deeply and brennan having that spark a coughing fit. they are Story Telling). asha seeing the erased image of a god, of a family member and saying “there’s a hole in all of us.” brennan narrating “this is a place where they tried to kill a story. it’s a very frightened thing to do.” (and god. the motif of fear. especially given the very present fear felt by the gods in current day exandria. they’re doing insane things in the critical role 3 part departure).

trist reminding ayden “he never tells the truth” and asha contesting “he only tells the truth, it’s just rotting.” emhira and asha both as perhaps the less Good™ much more neutral but doing so in such different ways, asha as bitter and hungry while emhira seems uncomfortable but there’s a familiarity and a certainty in her discomfort with mortality (the law bearer would also be included here but the emissary seems much more like trist and ayden (for now) than emhira or asha). something as insignificant as trist and her husband speaking to their children and affirming that little lies are okay while trist has lead a significant part of her life likely dishonest about who she is. the fact that there’s a certain childlike quality to the emissary who they’re all charged with ensuring makes it to the end of things even if they cannot. the fact that nahal (unclear which god they were, and i’m assuming it’s the first god of death but regardless still an absolutely compelling development in a short amount of time) in those opening moments is horrified by the concept of away which is unfamiliar to them only to soon after look upon their family and say. maybe away was better. Especially if those were words spoken by the god who would one day be replaced. these three episodes are going to haunt me and i’m excited to meet the ghosts.

[idonothavewings]

orym hitting us with “do you ever miss your mortality? its pretty great, living a lifetime” while turning to catch dorian’s eye and smile at him like hinting that he’s the reason that living is greaT AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[predictablesloth]

You made us to be good.

"You made us to fight! It was supposed to be right. Sealing the betrayers, putting them in the shadows again- I have slain devils for a century, thinking it was right and then one day I am told to sheathe my sword. And Acastriel comes to those of us who wonder why, and says do you know what they are doing. Do you know what they are doing? It’s a war to us, to them, it is a squabble. Why did you make us? Why did you make all of this? When you knew that you were hurting this world why didn’t you just leave?"

"Look. I must say, that you are caught in something that obviously is difficult. It’s completely incomprehensible for you. I see your pain. I feel it, and you know, sometimes I even ask myself, why are we doing this? This fighting, constant bickering. It’s endless. But sometimes, there’s a beauty in not understanding, if you use play by the rules… ignorance can be bliss. Now, hear me, and hear me very, very carefully. This threat, this thing that threatens us, will soon threaten you, and there will be no end. At least with us, there is some form of control. It’s just the way things are! So please, humor us. What do you know of your time being here? Of this… thing that threatens the very existence of us. And I promise you, we will give you purpose back, for you are our children, after all."

"With deference to the hands that move creation, if you wanted to make us to serve the gods, you should not have made us good."

[andi-o-geyser]

…dude i can’t do this today. i’m not strong enough. i just fucking woke up

[skrunksthatwunk]

actually i'm still thinking about the moral orel finale.

he has a cross on his wall. do you know how much i think about that bc it's a lot.

a lot of stories ((auto)biographical or fictional) centering escape from abusive/fundamentalist christianity result in the lead characters leaving behind christianity entirely. and that makes complete sense! people often grow disillusioned with the associated systems and beliefs, and when it was something used to hurt them or something so inseparable from their abuse that they can't engage with it without hurting, it makes total sense that they would disengage entirely. and sometimes they just figure out that they don't really believe in god/a christian god/etc. a healthy deconstruction process can sometimes look like becoming an atheist or converting to another religion. it's all case by case. (note: i'm sure this happens with other religions as well, i'm just most familiar with christian versions of this phenomenon).

but in orel's case, his faith was one of the few things that actually brought him comfort and joy. he loved god, y'know? genuinely. and he felt loved by god and supported by him when he had no one else. and the abuses he faced were in how the people in his life twisted religion to control others, to run away from themselves, to shield them from others, etc. and often, orel's conflicts with how they acted out christianity come as a direct result of his purer understanding of god/jesus/whatever ("aren't we supposed to be like this/do that?" met with an adult's excuse for their own behavior or the fastest way they could think of to get orel to leave them alone (i.e. orel saying i thought we weren't supposed to lie? and clay saying uhhh it doesn't count if you're lying to yourself)). the little guy played catch with god instead of his dad, like.. his faith was real, and his love was real. and i think it's a good choice to have orel maintain something that was so important to him and such a grounding, comforting force in the midst of. All That Stuff Moralton Was Up To/Put Him Through. being all about jesus was not the problem, in orel's case.

and i know i'm mostly assuming that orel ended up in a healthier, less rigid version of christianity, but i feel like that's something that was hinted at a lot through the series, that that's the direction he'd go. when he meditates during the prayer bee and accepts stephanie's different way to communicate, incorporating elements of buddhism into his faith; when he has his I AM A CHURCH breakdown (removing himself from the institution and realizing he can be like,, the center of his own faith? taking a more individualistic approach? but Truly Going Through It at the same time), his acceptance (...sometimes) of those who are different from him and condemned by the adults of moralton (stephanie (lesbian icon stephanie my beloved), christina (who's like. just a slightly different form of fundie protestant from him), dr chosenberg (the jewish doctor from otherton in holy visage)). his track record on this isn't perfect, but it gets better as orel starts maturing and picking up on what an absolute shitfest moralton is. it's all ways of questioning the things he's been taught, and it makes sense that it would lead to a bigger questioning as he puts those pieces together more. anyway i think part of his growth is weeding out all the lost commandments of his upbringing and focusing on what faith means to him, and what he thinks it should mean. how he wants to see the world and how he wants to treat people and what he thinks is okay and right, and looking to religion for guidance in that, not as like. a way to justify hurting those he's afraid or resentful of, as his role models did.

he's coming to his own conclusions rather than obediently, unquestioningly taking in what others say. but he's still listening to pick out the parts that make sense to him. (edit/note: and it's his compassion and his faith that are the primary motivations for this questioning and revisal process, both of individual cases and, eventually, the final boss that is christianity.) it makes perfect sense as the conclusion to his character arc and it fits the overall approach of the show far better. it's good is what i'm saying.

and i think it's important to show that kind of ending, because that's a pretty common and equally valid result of deconstruction. and i think it cements the show's treatment of christianity as something that's often (and maybe even easily) exploited, but not something inherently bad. something that can be very positive, even. guys he even has a dog he's not afraid of loving anymore. he's not afraid of loving anyone more than jesus and i don't think it's because he loves this dog less than bartholomew (though he was probably far more desperate for healthy affection and companionship when he was younger). i think it's because he figures god would want him to love that dog. he's choosing to believe that god would want him to love and to be happy and to be kind. he's not afraid of loving in the wrong way do you know how cool that is he's taking back control he's taking back something he loves from his abusers im so normal

[thatfaerieprincess]

Mr Apples I love u <3

What is a pencil? How do u draw again??? I haven't done this in like..... a VERY hot minute!

[xxwillowpotatox]

SHUT THE FUCK UP THERES IMODNA IN THE NEW INTRO