#s4 was like 'it will be so satisfying when it's resolved'. s5 is like 'yeah I don't think there's a satisfying way to resolve this.'

[fernsnouveau]

Tags by @erisluna35 :

#yeah the ship cracked not cause we dont believe in teen love #but because s5 messed up their dynamic #this whole thing messed up adriens arc not because of adrienette #but because he kept getting locked out of his own narrative #which is not satisfying regardless of adrienette #reducing all these complaints to just the salters belittling teen love #the sugar side really dont get it

Tags by @generalluxun :

#as a writer I feel this #writing the LS is hard now I need to ensure there is a clear break from canon to even contemplate it #why did they turn it so toxic?

“You don’t ship the love square because you’re an adult who doesn’t believe teenage love is legitimate”

I’m going to stop you there. Yes, I am an adult person who is aware teenage romance doesn’t have a great track record of being lasting in real life. But Miraculous Ladybug: Tales of Ladybug and Cat Noir is FICTIONAL.

If the writers decide on a convincing arc for Maribug and Adricat being “made for each other”, then yes, I will ship them. I considered them an OTP for years, actually.

UNFORTUNATELY there was a multi-season storyline of Ladybug keeping important secrets from Chat Noir that was not fully addressed and pushed aside.

UNFORTUNATELY as of the season 5 finale, we have Maribug lying to Adricat about his very existence as a son of Monarque and his status of being a Sentimonster.

So no. I don’t ship it anymore. And I’m actually kind of bummed this fictional relationship I invested in for years is dead to me.

[yannaryartside]

WE NEED 5 SEASONS

Okay I need to vent a little. Please indulge me

This is for this article that says the 5th season is up to Storer.

Storer said they filmed most of season 4, and some things still need to be filmed. So we will have s4 next summer, and we don't know if there will be a 5th one.

I could put my hand on fire to my belief that we will have 5 seasons. Mostly, because regardless of the importance of showing “being trapped in negative patterns” that was s3 for multiple characters, is not gonna be a satisfying conclusion if all those patterns are resolved in one season.

Realistically, i would not make sense.

Even if you think Claire is Carmy’s salvation, this graceful, perfect angel that came to serve Carmy’s redemption, and when they get together, everything will be fine (that narrative sucks ass, by the way, is perpetually insulting to everyone that had ever had a mental illness to suggest them they only need to fall on the hands of someone that ignores all their defects and are determined to please them). You could believe this is all about self-sabotage, and Carmy will wake up next season, apologize to Claire, save the restaurant by ex-maquina magic, and get his happy ending. Yeah, that will be 4 seasons of a conclusive story and an objectively terrible narrative. It is also very insulting to every person who has a romantic partner who struggles with addiction and/or mental illness to tell them they need to be this fairy tale of a person who is Claire to bring "peace" to their partner and basically solve their life. Fuck that. I refuse to believe they are doing that on purpose.

But if they put the “sleigh of hand” and Carmy has to realize that his emotional dependence on Claire is toxic and only contributed to his depression and disassociation, since you spent all S3 pulling him in that direction, making him believe that is what he wanted/needed, you are going to need a whole season for him even to “scape the illusion.” All of this will align with the Bear having to close, Syd potentially leaving, and starting dating Luca. So, S4 is going to be the “wake-up call.”

S5 should be the season of creating new patterns. Carmy will get into therapy. Syd will come back. The two will create new recipes and work on the menu (collaboration, vulnerability). They will realize they have true feelings for one another. Each character will move towards the place they are gonna end up with.

If you created a whole season about "being in the freeze response" and another two previous seasons of extending trauma and bad coping mechanisms, you are gonna need more than one season to fix that; mental wellness is not like that; it should be treated like something that requires more time combined with efforts.

Not to mention, if SydCarmy is indeed happening, you have spent 3 fucking seasons creating distance between them. I also feel like so much of Sydney's life (to her and to us) is trapped around Carmy's issues, and it actually would make more sense for her to realize being with Carmy is too taxing for her, regardless if she had the most realistic tools to actually help him to grow.

You also had not given Sydney a proper arc to grow from her insecurities and follow her dreams. She still seems to be as insecure of her own skills as when she came in, because Carmy insist on creating a menu based on his trauma. Regardless of his good intentions and the beauty of their connection, she will leave the "bear narrative" as if Carmy is the closest thing she had to a chef David, as if Carmy was the monster she needed to endure to "grow" or "decide better." Fuck that.

[another-lost-mc]

you are so real with being disappointed on nightbringer cause i feel the same way

Oh, I have complicated feelings about Nightbringer.

(I’ll use a Read More link here because of vague OG S4 discussion.)

I didn’t whale in OG but I was much more willing to spend extra money chasing cards I wanted. I was really motivated to catch up on all the story content too since I didn’t start playing until the later part of the pandemic. I know S3 and S4 aren’t the greatest bits of story-telling ever written but I had hopes for more Celestial Realm content (a visit and maybe Michael appearance) in S5 based on where Simeon’s storyline was heading.

(I usually picture MC traveling to the CR to see Michael in S5, and maybe another visit of new angels to the Devildom in S6 once tensions are resolved.)

Overall I really liked getting involved with the fandom and I started posting fanfics here. I was so happy with my curated little card collection of favs — Lucifer was my original favourite, followed by Simeon, Barbatos, Solomon and Asmo — and exploring the game with my writing.

And then Nightbringer was announced.

After I spent probably too much money collecting all the HDD cards I wanted not long before that.

And the cards weren’t going to be transferable to the new game! ISN’T THAT FUN?! (Solmare logic, probably.)

I mean, I get it. It’s the nature of gacha games and the motivation is to grow the player base and revenue potential.

Sure, whatever.

And some parts of Nightbringer are fine, while other parts leave me desperately wanting more. Detailed lore that ties into the OG game and characters I care about, more in-depth characterization. Another slow burn love interest would be nice too since NB completely changed the direction of Barb’s development compared to OG S4 (side-eyes Mephisto and Raphael as new potentials). Also, as time goes on, I find myself not really caring who Nightbringer is. Does it even matter anymore? Like…whatever, you do you, buddy. lol

My face if they reveal it’s Barbatos/Solomon/Michael all along:

Oh, and more ROMANCE? Hello??? The babysitter role and goofy family dynamics are satisfying to a point but then it gets stale. Some of the Devilgrams are boring too, and don’t get me started on the EVENTS. I enjoyed the vampire one last year that sparked a random writing frenzy of vampire AU fics, but so many of the events fall flat for me. Anyone else just use S or A Rank skips to breeze past the story bits because 90% of it is boring as hell? Yeah, same.

It sounds like a lot of complaints, but there’s still more about the game I love or I wouldn’t be here: my favs, most of the artwork, the music! The new Dateables song is so goofy - what are those lyrics? - but they didn’t autotune Simeon to death and he sounds so much better than he did in Question Love (the only song whose remix I like better than the original).

I love the people I’ve met in this fandom and being able to share story ideas and headcanons. It’s so exciting when new lessons and cards are announced because the player base gets invigorated again (even if things fall a little flat upon arrival). I’ve splurged on some merch (official and fan-made) and I love being self-indulgent and commissioning artwork of my favs and MC together.

Oh, and I love my OCs. 😚 @ them all.

[daniclaytcn]

I’m not going to lie I’m starting to get stoked for the cruise ship disaster like the BTS are giving Tsunami level vibes with how all out it looks like they are going. Like Bathena legit fighting for their lives Titanic style **grabby hands** and looks like we are getting Captain Hen running the show from the helicopter 🚁…like I’m trying not to vibrate with excitement. I’m also very 👀 about the pair up of Buck/Eddie as we know they are partners so it’s logical that they are working together on this but I’m still 👀 as I would love if prior to the cruise disaster that we have some tension that has developed between them when we’re catching back up with everyone at the start of the season because things between them felt so unresolved since the graveyard thing in 6B. My absolute kingdom would be tension pre-cruise ship-cruise ship disaster where they still work as battlefield boyfriends-tension unresolved after cruise disaster-tension continues throughout season to blow out fight-season finale style emergency where tension resolved and setup for season 8.

yeah, they've been spending a lot of time filming the disaster and it looks really cool and really big 👀 it might be our first proper multi-episode emergency since s3 (i know that s4 and s5 had those two but they weren't nearly as high stakes). after the disappointment of s6 re emergencies, it will be such a breath of fresh air to have a high-stakes, thrilling disaster again!

i'm also very 👀 @ buck and eddie in the trailer because i've picked up on some tension between them in the few glimpses we got—i might be insane idk but they definitely Do Not seem happy with each other in those scenes. i really want a big blowup fight it would be so delicious and satisfying. can't wait to see if we're right about this!

[elcorhamletlive]

i think 2 main things could’ve been done better in s3 to put will in a better situation in s4 in regards to allowing him to move on and have a non-mike related romance plot.

the first being having a conversation with jonathan after his breakdown in 3x03. i always found it incredibly annoying that will and jonathan have conversations in s1 and 2 where jonathan reassures him that it’s okay to be different and like different things than other people but not in the season where will was explicitly struggling the the most with that and the isolation it causes. they don’t actually talk at all in s3 and i think a moment where jonathan somehow finds out that will had a meltdown and destroyed his safe-place would’ve been helpful to push will’s arc forwards. obviously will in s3 wasn’t necessarily ready to deal with his problems, and he couldn’t have some rapid change in the span of a few days, but jonathan coming to him and giving him a little talk like he usually does would’ve been good i think.

the second thing is that i think they should’ve had an actual reconciliation between will and mike in s3 after their fight. their fight at rink-o-mania in s4 hit the exact same beats because they never resolved that conflict in s3 and had to rehash it in order to mend their relationship in “dear billy”. the whole “i was maybe focusing too much on el and i lost you but we can work together moving forwards as best friends” would’ve been a conversation that could’ve been perfectly effective after their s3 fight considering the show pivots back to the supernatural plot after 3x03 and that could’ve been where they were “working together”. (it may have allowed will to be more active in the MF plot too but who knows.) i think it would’ve given will some good perspective onto his relationship with mike at that point and he may not have spent so much time stuck in and questioning those unresolved feelings.

those two things still wouldn’t have rushed will’s overall arc imo, and they could’ve given him a better opportunity to move on by the time s4 came around now that will is finally out to himself. maybe those feelings for mike in s3 could’ve been made into a passing comment in s4 about his way of figuring himself out or whatnot. now we’re unfortunately going into s5 with will being backed into a corner romance-wise. i don’t think it’ll actually take anything that significant for him to move on, and i think b*l*rs who insist will can’t move on in a single season (especially if there’s a time jump) make no sense, but it upsets me that it’s hard to know how much narrative weight they’d be willing to give will with a new love interest in a satisfying way.

Yeah anon I generally agree with all your points. If I'm honest, and I know that this might make some shippers extremely angry, I think the reason the rink o mania fight hits the same beats as their fight in season 3 is that the season 3 fight wasn't written with the idea of Will being into Mike in mind. I think it's definitely something that they had considered at that point, as shown in the original season 2 finale script, but I think by season 3 they could have gone either way with Will's story. Otherwise I feel like they would have hammered home the idea of Will being jealous of El much harder in season 3 - like, showing us Will specifically thinking of Mike when he destroys the fort, instead of showing the entire party as they did.

I don't want to imply the Duffers make shit up in the fly because I don't think that's fair, but as showrunners they seem to be really flexible in the way they allow the story to develop (Robin being gay, Steve's character becoming as important as he did, etc). And I honestly think Will's storyline is not enough of a priority to them that they had plotted it out carefully to go about it in the best, most satisfying way. I believe they always planned for Will to be gay, but him being into Mike was something they didn't feel super strongly about but decided to incorporate because they knew fans would like it and it was an easy way to showcase his story (if I'm super cynical, I'd add that it was also a way to have Will be gay without actually writing a gay romance and pissing off homophobes in the audience; but I will give them the benefit of the doubt here). Like Will's plot just doesn't wrap up in season 3 at all, and I don't think it was intentional, I think it was a writing failure because they cared more about other storylines and characters. I think you're absolutely right, a scene with Jonathan would have done so much for that plot. It could have been a more edited version of the conversation they have in season 4, to be honest - not explicitly addressing Will's sexuality but making it clear that it's not a problem to his brother that he "doesn't like girls". That way, season 4 could have progressed Will's journey a lot further.

And yes, I 100% agree B*l*rs are talking out of their asses when they say it's impossible for Will to move on in one season. Like Will is fifteen years old and he has never even had a first kiss. There's so much that he can still experience romantically that is bound to make a huge impact on him and that, imo, would make him forget about Mike entirely.

[birchwoodswolf]

Are you okay? I'm sorry the fandom's been rough on you- it kinda sucks, but there are some really cool people here! (You're one of them, obviously.)

Full response under the cut, because this is kinda long and personal.

Anyway, here are the tags in question that almost certainly incited this ask (originally from this post):

#listen;;; okay;;;;; im so fuckin tired #ive had to deal with this shit for five years with no fuckin Release #this is literally the only reason ive stayed in the fandom after all this time: the fact that i fuckin KNEW that something would happen here #and now im so close to being RIGHT #and sure the hagemans giveth and the hagemans taketh away but they’ve already taken so much

#all i know is that either way im probably gonna be leaving the fandom after ns8 and id prefer to go out on a good note #if they’re just going to be fuckin julienbaiting trash till the end then fine by me i wont fuckin bother watching this stupid shit anymore #and if they go through with it? congrats; and now he’s dead permanently (probably) #and considering that the hope of his existence has been the only force keeping me from escaping this hell fandom #i for one cannot wait to be freed from my chains

And yes, I mean every word of that - but it’s not for the reason you’re alluding to. Honestly, I’ve had no huge issues with the fandom that would force me to leave (disregarding all the Disgusting Shippers) - there are some good people, and I’ve made a lot of friends here. It’s just that I’ve been growing increasingly frustrated with the show over the past several years. The only thing that’s kept me from leaving has been a feeling - almost a premonition - that Julien was going to get a better send-off than what he got in S3. After all, it ain’t over til the fat lady sings, and at that point, the fat lady didn’t even exist.

Am I so petty as to completely disregard the show because I’m mad about how my favorite character was treated? No, but I’m still really disappointed in it. He and Zane had (and by comparison to all seasons since, still have) the best platonic relationship in the entire show, possibly only tied with Cyrus and Pixal (and Cyrus hasn’t seen Pixal since the end of S3 - what’s with Ninjago and either dividing, ruining, or otherwise negatively interfering with parent/child relationships?). The love they had for each other was pure, simple, and unconditional - and in a way, they completed each other.

But the biggest issue I have with Ninjago, the most significant reason why the newer seasons piss me off so much, is the inverse relationship between the quality of the story and the quality of the visuals. Because, for whatever reason, the show can’t have both.

Sure, the pilot, S1, and S2 look decent - but they’re nothing compared to the later seasons. For an example, compare the water physics between the opening scene of Tick Tock and Morro’s death scene in E54:

It’s practically night and day - and this is only one aspect where things have improved significantly. Take the Spinjitzu; in the early seasons, it’s just a normal, flat tornado, but when Kai uses it in E55 (as one example), you can even see sparks flying off of it. Or how complex some of the areas have gotten, how much detail is present now compared to back in the early days.

Or the lighting. Or the effects. Or the creature designs. 

The show has become more and more beautiful, but in the process, the story and characters have been completely decimated. The plots have also gotten much lazier - there could’ve been any number of ways to resolve S6 without resorting to retconning all of it, but nope! They lazily retcon it and create a huge paradox (as Sensei Yang’s temple was left floating in the sky, even though it was only pulled up there in E60 - which was obviously retconned, as only twelve minutes of S6 are effectively “canon” to the current timeline).

Then there’s the love triangle for lazy drama, and all the time they had to waste afterwards attempting to “fix” Jaya (which, to be completely honest, hasn’t worked at all). Most of the other relationships the show has teased haven’t worked out well, either, because there’s always something Really Bad about them (whether it’s the obvious emotional dependencies exhibited by Jay and Zane in their relationships, or all of the incest jokes with Kai and Skylor in S4, or whatever the fuck is wrong with Wu and Misako, which I honestly can’t put a name on).

And don’t even get me started on the characterization! Literally everyone has been reduced down to one or two traits - “robot”, or “annoying”, or “impulsive”, or “foodie”. Sure, these traits were always present back in the early seasons, but they weren’t nearly as exaggerated then as they were now. Jay’s and Zane’s characterizations have especially pissed me off - Jay’s extremely annoying practically 24/7 (especially in S6, jesus fuck), and after he went Titanium, Zane’s become a smarter-than-you asshole who’s always trying to fix shit by himself. (I could honestly go on about him all day, but I won’t.)

Out of the last several seasons, the only one that I can definitively say I liked was S5. The plot was interesting, and I could form an emotional connection with it; the characterization was still decent (or at least not anywhere near as bad as in S6); a ton of cool concepts were introduced, such as the Cloud Kingdom, the Realm Crystal, and Nya being the Water Ninja, among other things; and I liked all of the new characters.

I also liked Day of the Departed, and S7 was decent, but S3, S4, and S6 were honestly terrible. S3 and S6 don’t need any explanation (as the only redeeming qualities are some of the new characters, as well as the last 10 minutes of E34 and TLR); but S4 was mostly just because I was having major issues with the fandom at the point, decided to take a break from it, and never got back around to watching it (as I only came back to the fandom as soon as the S5 hype train got rolling).

And speaking of fandom issues, boy do I have some. I hate how a lot of people in the fandom are extremely homophobic and/or transphobic. I hate how a significant chunk of the fandom ships Lloyd with the other Ninja, even though they’re all adults and 5-6 years older than Lloyd. I hate how a lot of those same people ship Nya with a man at least twice her age.

I hate how Morro is included in photosets of “all of the main ninja!!!!!” more often than Nya. I hate how some people in the fandom romanticize the way Morro abused Lloyd in S5. I hate how the entire fandom has a double standard when it comes to people who have done bad things: how if they’re young and conventionally attractive, they’re a ~smol pure bby~, and if they’re not, they’re the evilest scum to ever live.

I hate how nobody cares about the side characters. I hate how nobody acknowledges good friendships, only ships. And I hate how nobody thinks for themselves, thinks for even five seconds, before following along with whatever is popular.

The only reason I’ve stuck around this long - which will be five years in November - is because I’ve had just a bit of hope. A small, feeble hope - one that I could finally get a good ending, that I could finally be satisfied with the show. That I could finally watch the show because I want to watch it, not because I feel like I need to.

And that moment is finally so, so close - I can feel it in my bones. I’ve wanted to be able to escape for years, but I’ve never been able to; I’ve always been dragged back in. And now that freedom so close, that it’s almost here, I’m more afraid than ever that it’s all going to come crashing down.

And on top of that, I don’t really feel all that appreciated here. My meta posts get some attention, but only if they’re short. My music boxes get some attention, but Tumblr doesn’t let them show up in the tag, and thus they get far fewer notes than they really could/would. My fics get few reblogs and even fewer comments, because the “you should always reblog art and give good feedback to support the artist!!!!!!!” doesn’t apply for fanfic writers. And don’t even get me started on my theories, especially my Samurai X theory as of late; I put a lot of effort into those - to make sure that they’re hole-free, to make sure that they make sense, to make sure that they could possibly happen - and all I get is one or two comments from people who really appreciate the work I’ve put into it, and criticism from people who already have their minds set on whatever arbitrary explanation.

For all of these reasons, I really want to drop out of the fandom, or at least hibernate for a while. Most of the people from earlier in the fandom’s history - including lots of my friends - have moved on to other things at this point, mostly because they didn’t find it worthwhile to stick around. They’ve all been able to leave, but I’m still stuck here.

Which is why I’ve honestly resolved to drop out of the fandom after NS8. By that point, I’ll have gotten one of two things - either a good send-off for my favorite character, one that I’ve been waiting for for five years; or a final confirmation that this show no longer has anything to offer me. It doesn’t mean that I won’t like the show anymore, or that I’ll stop watching it - it’s just that there won’t be any reason for me to be active in the fandom, and thus I won’t do so as often.

So yeah.