#religion in the Grishaverse

[lesbiansoncaffiene]

Religion/Spirituality in the Grishaverse (I am thinking thoughts)

I wanna talk about Leigh Bargudo’s handling of religiosity in the Grishaverse, especially within the Crows (Inej and Matthias) and how much it means to me as a religious person

So. So so so so so. I’m not sure how to exactly explain this feeling but I’m in love with the way Leigh wrote the religious aspects of Inej and Matthias’ characters, and how much it spoke to me as a religious person the same age as the characters (16-18-ish)

For both, their religion is something they grow up with, ingrained in them throughout childhood and while it may have wavered within both as they go through life (Matthias meeting Nina and Inej getting kidnapped) they still maintain a connection to their respective higher powers.

And that’s something you don’t really see a lot in books, especially YA books, since it’s either never mentioned or rejected by the characters/society (not that there’s anything wrong with that), but this characterization of young people who are tasked with so much and still choose to believe in something greater than themselves is very personal to me and a big split from the usual narrative.

I dunno, but the little aspects of their faith journeys, like Inej saying a prayer after winning a fight or Matthias staying connected to Djel in Hellgate, that really speaks to me. Because religion doesn’t have to be this huge show, it really can just be a girl thanking her Saints for her life.

And on the topic of Saints, I’m high-key obsessed with Leigh’s decision to make Saints as opposed to a bunch of gods/demigods. Saints are something that are mostly seen in Catholic/Christian doctrine, and seeing her include Saints made me feel more connected to the universe she created, as someone who is a practicing Catholic.

(Also Inej naming her daggers after Saints?? Icon)

Another element I found to be really touching was the fact that both Inej and Matthias are shown struggling with their faith. A lot of times, characters are shown being pretty cemented in their faith if they have ones and we get a glimpse of two kids (cause they are) who are struggling with the things they’ve done and things that have been done to them, and still maintaining their faith.

Especially Inej, grappling with the fact that she’s a whole ass-assassin, and still maintaining her faith for forgiveness. Which, I for one, fully believe that she would be forgiven, cause she has a good heart, and does what she does to survive.

I could go on (I could write a whole essay about this fr), but these are just some main thoughts on religion in the Grishaverse and how much it means to me as a religious person (a folk Catholic, specifically). My religion is a big part of my life because of the things that have happened in it and my reaction to them, and it’s really cool to see that reflected in YA literature

[aleksanderscult]

Such a random thought, but I've been obsessing about this for at least a week now. The religious systems in the Grishaverse are all twisted. None of them have names, none of them have strict theologies. The Sankt Pyotr of Brevno story mentioned something about 'Sikurian Psalms.' The 'Sikur' thing makes me think of the Sikurzoi, but I feel like I'm grasping at straws for some sense of coherency. Why is Djel a tree? Beats me. Who are the saints in the Ravkan religion saints of? No clue. Did I miss all this in canon or did LB just forget?

Oh yeah, the religion lore in the Grishaverse is beyond fucked, anon.

We (the fans) know practically nothing of it as well. Leigh has never explored it.

Essentially all Saints were Grisha with unique powers, all of them had brutal deaths and you need to die to become a Saint.

Alina is an exception because her power was what the Ravkans needed to get free from the Fold. So most of all they revered her for it. Oh! And Zoya. But that's because the author wanted to make her special with force so I won't get into it.

Saints are patrons of different things. For example, Elizaveta is the patron of gardeners, Grigori is the patron of doctors and musicians etc. I don't know how otkazat'sya decide which Saint is patron of what. Probably they do it based on their powers and deeds.

About the Fjerdans, we don't know how this God came to be, how the Fjerdans had this epiphany to worship this particular tree. Although I must say that it reminds me of the Old Gods and the weirwoods from the "Game of Thrones" universe.

[batmanlovesnirvana]

— Faith in the grishaverse.

I’ve always thought that, despite the important role religion plays in the Grishaverse, it isn’t very well explained when it comes to the Ravkans.

There is no central Ravkan deity. People pray to the saints, who are the ones performing miracles, unlike the real-world concept where people ask saints to pray to God on their behalf.

Not all Grisha are saints, but it’s been debated that all saints were actually Grisha. Grisha used to be much more powerful, but their powers diminished after the formation of the Second Army and its orders.

The world was created in The Making at the Heart of the World (let’s call it MHW for short, lol), which is like the central point of creation where everything comes from. The Grisha are connected to MHW—they come from it and return to it after death, but the concept of "Grisha" came later than the Ravkan religion. People credit Sankt Grigori, who was a healer, with forming the first Corporalki, but even in Grigori’s time, saints were already a thing.

The religion is older than Ravka itself. The monks helped the first king of Ravka unify the country, and then founded the Priestguard in exchange for their help. It’s suggested that they were also Grisha.

It’s implied that all gods are the same god, meaning Djel, the saints, and even the Ravkan religion come from the same central source. (I don’t totally agree with this because Ghezen is opposed to Djel, but okay, lol).

Leigh has said the religion is based on Slavic paganism, but the very concept of having saints, cathedrals, icons, monks, and a kind of central religious authority (the Apparat) feels a lot like Eastern Orthodoxy, which was the official religion of the Russian Empire.

In an interview from 2012 (pre-Six of Crows), she said: “I never get specifically into Christianity. That was really important to me. There is no Christ in this world. The religion that is in the world is much closer to the kind of pagan tradition that was in Russia pre-Christianity, and even that grew out of the influence of Christianity, but that couldn’t tamp down these local mythologies.”

Interestingly, a concept of heaven or hell is never mentioned… The Fjerdans are very focused on not sinning against Djel, but we don’t really know what happens if you do. Djel has his saints and is the higher power for the Fjerdans, just like Ghezen is for the Kerch. But there isn’t a central Ravkan deity, and we haven’t heard much about the Shu religion either, just that they believe in some « seven knights », but it was never adressed. I think they believe in more sciency/superstitious and the Suli believes in their Saints, Gods and curses…

Grisha, on the other hand, don’t believe in life after death, though it’s unclear if non-Grisha do. In Crooked Kingdom, Inej tells Nina to let Matthias go to his god, which might imply some kind of afterlife for the Fjerdans. At the end of Rule of Wolves, it’s hinted that all gods are the same god (AGAIN I’d disagree—don’t tell me Ghezen and Djel are the same), suggesting Djel could be the central god of the Grishaverse, taking different forms depending on the culture.

The use of expressions like “heaven” and “hell” might just be a way of speaking that’s familiar to us in the real world. Sometimes authors reshape these concepts to fit their fictional worlds, but Leigh Bardugo doesn’t seem to have done that here.

Honestly, we don’t know much. We know more about the Grisha’s involvement in religion and how people interact with it than we do about the beliefs themselves… What do they believe in? Is there a code of behavior/practice? Is MHW like the Big Bang, or was it set in motion by someone else? I have questions, too…

I had another point, but I forgot it before I could type it out—I'll add it in the comments if I remember… The Nikolai Duology touches on this more, but it doesn’t explain a lot either. It’s more about the influence of religion on Ravkan/Grisha society than actual world-building.

[stromuprisahat]

Echoes of Darklina

Six of Crows- Chapter 18

Kaz's chapter became more interesting than expected.

“Why would you care what I think?” He looked genuinely baffled. “I don’t know,” he said. “But I do.” And then he kissed me. It happened so suddenly that I barely had time to react. One moment, I was staring into his slate-colored eyes, and the next, his lips were pressed to mine. I felt that familiar sense of surety melt through me as my body sang with sudden heat and my heart jumped into a skittery dance. Then, just as suddenly, he stepped back. He looked as surprised as I felt. “I didn’t mean … ,” he said.

Shadow and Bone- Chapter 13

“... The people curse my name and pray for you, but you’re the one who was ready to abandon them. I’m the one who will give them power over their enemies. I’m the one who will free them from the tyranny of the King.” ... I gave a single shake of my head. He slumped back in his chair. “Fine,” he said with a weary shrug. “Make me your villain.”

Shadow and Bone- Chapter 21

... The moment his lips met mine, the connection between us opened and I felt his power flood through me. I could feel how much he wanted me—but behind that desire, I could feel something else, something that felt like anger. I drew back, startled. “You don’t want to be doing this.” “This is the only thing I want to be doing,” he growled, and I could hear the bitterness and desire all tangled up in his voice. “And you hate that,” I said with a sudden flash of comprehension. He sighed and leaned against me, brushing my hair back from my neck. “Maybe I do,” he murmured, his lips grazing my ear, my throat, my collarbone. I shivered, letting my head fall back, but I had to ask. “Why?” “Why?” he repeated, his lips still brushing over my skin, his fingers sliding over the ribbons at my neckline. “Alina, do you know what Ivan told me before we took the stage? Tonight, we received word that my men have spotted Morozova’s herd. The key to the Shadow Fold is finally within our grasp, and right now, I should be in the war room, hearing their report. I should be planning our trip north. But I’m not, am I?”

Shadow and Bone- Chapter 14

Why did you go to Alina? Yuri buzzed away. Why seek her out? To reclaim his power, of course. The universe wanted to humble him, to force him to appeal to a pair of pathetic orphans like a beggar on his knees. Why did you go to her? Because with her he was human again.

Rule of Wolves- Chapter 21

“I want you to know my name,” he said. “The name I was given, not the title I took for myself. Will you have it, Alina?” ... “Yes,” I breathed. After a long moment, he said, “Aleksander.” A little laugh escaped me. He arched a brow, a smile tugging at his lips. “What?” “It’s just so … common.” Such an ordinary name, held by kings and peasants alike. I’d known two Aleksanders at Keramzin alone, three in the First Army. One of them had died on the Fold. His smile deepened and he cocked his head to the side. It almost hurt to see him this way. “Will you say it?” he asked. I hesitated, feeling danger crowd in on me. “Aleksander,” I whispered. His grin faded, and his gray eyes seemed to flicker. “Again,” he said. “Aleksander.”

Ruin and Rising- Chapter 9

[worlds-okayest-fag]

nah cos religion in the grishaverse would be such an interesting topic to do an actual study into

[grishaverse-chaos]

okay so I have a few days free this week and I want to make another grishaverse masterpost like this

[barrel-crow-n]

Kaz in that one scene, tied to Van eck's chair: I'm against crime and I'm not ashamed to admit it

[she-posts-nerdy-stuff]

Hi!! this is a kinda random question, but I was just thinking about it. So we know that the Druskelle (and presumably most of Fjerda) are bigoted, racist, etc.. Does that stem from their culture and like the wars and stuff or is that part of their religion? I guess hypothetically could Matthias/Maya/your other Fjerdan ocs have corrected their prejudices and still believed in Djel or do the two beliefs contradict? Just wondering what your take is :)

Hi, thanks for the ask!

I absolutely adore religion in the Grishaverse and a while ago I wrote quite a long analysis on Matthias and Inej's relationship with their respective religions, mostly focusing on Djel since I feel I know more about Fjerdan religion than Ravkan having read the soc duology a lot more times than the other books, and I talked quite a bit about some of these things so I'll link that here in case anyone is interested and below I'll put a couple of quotes from that more specifically pertaining to what you've said here. Essentially, I believe that the Drüskelle order is a cult and represents a warped version of Fjerdan religion and that Matthias' journey of self-discovery and of learning to find the version of Djel that he believes in and that aligns with who he wants to be is one of the most beautifully written character arcs I have ever read.

Some quotes from my previous analysis:

"Theoretically, the Drüskelle are raised (forced) to believe the same basic principles of the religion that most of the religious people in the country are [...] However, what’s taken completely further is that the Drüskelle are told that the only way to be truly respected by their god is to take decisive action against Grisha people for their power, because it’s “demonic” and a warping of Djel’s gifts. Now first of all, none of the religious teachings we learn about as the reader even remotely suggest this, which suggest that it’s a baseless prejudice for which religion has been used as an excuse for so long that it’s become culturally ingrained and believed."

"Matthias even shows particular pride that he was personally told the secret of the second glass bridge by Jarl Brum himself"

"And this is the thing, ok, because by claiming that Djel will show the boys the path and then telling them himself (!!!!!!!!) Brum is claiming far more power than a servant of Djel and or Fjerda. No, now he turns himself into a messenger of Djel, a prophet if you will, just to reaaaalllly double down on that religious trauma he’s giving these kids. He is putting himself into the Messiah-like position; he’s saying that Djel sent him to them to tell them that they must kidnap and kill people to earn his love."

"in his own practice Matthias would appear to see Djel as a benevolent god"

"presented himself as a Messiah-like figure and effectively forced these young boys to believe that betraying him is akin to betraying Djel"

Okay I'm restraining myself from adding more to that list because I'm just sitting here reading through the original analysis going "ooo add that" "and that" "that too" and I'll just end up copy and pasting the whole thing if I carry on like this, so if you'd like to read more I should've linked it at the top :)

I'm gonna talk a bit about Djel and relationship with religion in terms of my Fjerdan OCs here, if anyone is interested but hasn't read the fic you don't have to have done to follow the religion info but it's worth knowing that it's set almost entirely in Ketterdam and takes place nearly 10 years after Crooked Kingdom :)

For my Fjerdan OCs religion is very much on my mind whenever I'm writing them, and I find it a very interesting thing to consider. So, I have three Fjerdan OCs in Daughter of the Rain and Snow: Maya, a Tidemaker and our titular character, Celina, a deceased (pre-events of the fic) otkazat'sya whose body was burned and who therefore cannot reach Djel, and Fiona, a Heartrender who lost her relationship with religion a long time ago and has no interest in taking it up again. I'm going to start with Fiona because I haven't really explored her relationship with Djel very much since she has had less scenes than the others thus far, but I tend to have quite fleshed out backstories for my side characters even if they don't make it into the story lol

Fiona is 22 during the events of the fic and has been working with Inej and the crew of the Wraith for almost four years. She made her way to Ketterdam at 17 after her family discovered she was Grisha and threw her out. In a desperate attempt to flee Fjerda - and notably not knowing any Kerch language - she signed an indenture contract with a Kerch merchant who offered her safe passage to the country. She did not know what she was signing, and her contract was written in Kerch, but she just wanted to get out of Fjerda as quickly as possible and this seemed like her only option. She was freed and ended up working with Inej when she was 18. Fiona had battled with her relationship with Djel for a long time after discovering she was Grisha and keeping it secret, but when her parents learnt the truth and started abusing her and eventually turned her out with nowhere to go and no protection to be found she adopted atheism completely, akin to the way Kaz and Wylan found their atheism. -

“Saints speed,” she said to Inej, who echoed the words she knew were said for her benefit alone.

Fiona had given up on Djel, the god she was raised with, and had no interest in taking up another. (Chapter 8) (I feel so weird quoting my own writing)

Religion is very much at the forefront of everything I write considering Maya and Celina, particularly since Celina only appears as a character in Maya's POV chapters (she exists more as a concept to Kaz, Inej, and Aimee, who connect her to things she represents to each of them but whom they never knew as a real person). Maya battling her relationship with Djel is very much in the forefront of the story and one of my favourite chapters is when she goes back to the tree she cut down in anger and prays for it; the chapter is essentially a long monologue of Maya talking to Djel and voicing every side of her argument out loud. I won't list everything here but I'll add this quote from the chapter:

“I’ve tried it every way,” she whispered, failing to fight the sobs that were growing in her throat, “I ignored it, I tried not to use it, I used it for others, I used it for myself, I used it for You. And I have somehow failed You every time. Maybe I deserve to burn now, but they say you are born Grisha. Did You really look at me and always know I would deserve to burn? From the very moment I was born? Perhaps this is all I am in Your grand tapestry of destiny; a game for You to play, a doll that You can take apart and stitch together at wrong angles. I am a broken toy that can be discarded and burnt whilst the world moves on as though I were never here. I made the wrong choices, but I thought they were the only ones left. You could have let me stay at home. You could have let her live - let both of them live. And I never would have done anything like this. I’m so sorry…” her voice broke and she felt the tears flooding over her cheeks as she collapsed over the ruined tree trunk and cried into its empty flesh, “I’m so sorry,” (Chapter 66 on tumblr, chapter 67 on AO3)

And the chapter ultimately ends with Maya asking Djel to teach her how to deserve forgiveness from Inej and the other characters for everything she'd done, or to at least teach her how to forgive Him.

I think one of the most important aspects of religion in terms of this and in terms of Maya and Celina's relationship with each other is that even though Celina knows Maya is a Tidemaker neither of them ever talk about it and Maya reached a point where she was actively afraid to bring it up because she didn't know how Celina felt about Grisha and she didn't want to jeopardise not only what is the only relationship she has with anyone right now but arguably what is the first relationship she's ever had that wouldn't be considered abusive (her relationship with her father is kinda up in the air, I know, but considering that he sold her I don't think it's a spoiler to say I hate that man's guts even though y'all have a little bit more to learn about him yet) since realistically Celina was the only person she had a real conversation with for three years and the only other people she spoke to in that time would be clients, Yennefer, and occasionally other girls at the Tulip Mill. Maya even saw Yennefer's death more as vengeance for Celina than she did for herself, saying that Yen's death was for Celina and Kaz's death would be for her before she finds out that Kaz was partially responsible for Celina's death in the worldview that she holds - and as Kaz considers himself no less responsible for her death than Rollins was for Jordie's. I don't know if I'm explaining it quite right but the fear that Maya developed surrounding other people's perspective on Grisha power preventing her from being able to share her feelings with Celina I found a really heart-wrenching detail to write and I was definitely hoping to present the idea that even if religiously the ideas don't contradict - considering that we see Celina adapt her belief in Djel to say that anything that she does at the Tulip Mill will be forgiven because she has no choice over it - culturally speaking it's still such a complex and difficult thing to move past that Maya isn't even sure she can ever express it to the only person she trusts, and I also hoped to touch on this idea with the flashbacks to the Ravkan boy at the Grisha workshop with Maya who didn't trust her because she was Fjerdan even though she was Grisha and had literally fled Drüskelle and her home country

Anyway I hope this made sense, it's starting to feel very rambly and random, and I hope that it was interesting to read. Thanks so much for teh ask and for your interest in the fic! <33

[httpschrys]

“Men mock the gods until they need them, Kaz.”

[lilisouless]

Post number whatever with the grishaverse future children

Zoya: that girl is going to kill me! why does she has to run away everytime we have a disagrement!

Nikolai: calm down,she is sixteen, she won't get more bratty than that. You should let her cool down, besides we know exactly where she is, she goes to the same place everytime

(Meanwhile in Ketterdam)

Liliyanna crying on Kaz´s lap: She doesn't understand me! she wanted me to babysit to "practice ruling", i don't want to change diapers or clean a kid´s running nose-

Kaz patting her head: what a monster

Liliyanna: Why do i have to be a responsible ruler? can't i be just a princess that wears expensive jewellry, twirls her dress and just sits there being rich?

Kaz: who is she to deny you that?

Jeevitha (kanej kid): excuse me, can i have some of your hair? its for my dolls

Kaz: I already gave her all mine

Liliyanna: sure take it, is not fa-(Ouch! i thought you were going to cut it with scissors,not ripping it off!) is not fair! i am not like her!

Kaz: She wasn't always perfect you know, your aunt Genya says that at your age , your mom used to be a bit-(notices his daughter) a bit of a brat

Liliyanna: and a bitch (gets hit by a flying flip flop) ouch! sorry aunt Inej

Kaz: Look, you are missing a bit shot. You have meet my friends, they only follow me when there is money to gain, they don't respect me like they should. But you? you can have your own army of loyal comrades, this kids know you are the princess, older than them which children often think equals "wiser". You can teach this kids to venerate you inconditionally, to teach them your ways...

Liliyanna: you saying...they will do what i want?

Kaz: If you learn how to handle them, they will. You can be their leader,their ruler...their god

Liliyanna: a god? that sounds fine

Kaz: see? kids are more usefull than you give credit too. So you can go and star making your own team or gang (but "crows" is a name already taken, just saying) maybe going into not so legal matters-

Liliyanna: yes!

Kaz: just don't take Jeevitha into your followers, she is going well with her trinkets mini store and would rather focus on that

[wraithblogging]

What I really like about Inej's portrayal as a religious person is that while religion does shape her and plays an important part in her life, it never rules over or stops her in a way that makes you feel like she is controlled by her faith. Rather, she uses it in a way that's through and through uplifting and helpful to her. Reflecting on herself and other people and also making sense of the world.

I am completely in love with the scene where she thinks about if her Saints would be fine with all the killing she does. She concludes that this is what she has become and that the Saints will understand. She doesn't harness guilt from this but uses the Saint's presumed judgment as a tool to reflect on her own morality. That said, she doesn't turn hunting slavers into a task connected to her religion (which would have been an easy connection to make here). But she separates her religions morality from her own goals in a way.

She is eye to eye with her faith. The faith is not above her and exerts power over her. It guides her, and it's something she finds strength in. It gives her power. And that's an extremely beautiful portrayal of faith to me. It's a tool and a support, not a means for control.

[whosthatfunkyrat]

I think Kaz would listen to MCR because he is that bitch

[mrsmiroir]

religion/worldbuilding in soc enthusiasts, do you guys think certain groups have their own saints that haven’t been canonized in mainstream ravkan religion? or just saints that are worshipped almost exclusively by one community or people?

[conn-artist]

Mmmm look at that kinky religious imagery!

This is from a while ago which is why Sobacha’s legs are different and his hair and shadow patterns change every time I draw him.

[theloonatic]

(Fic!Posting)

Thinking abt how not one of the Yellow Covenant leaders (folks that controlled Fjerda and Shu Han for that coin) were Fjerdan or Shu Han. Hmmm. Hmmmmmm.

[worlds-okayest-fag]

so i finally went back to working on the grishaverse religions analysis thing

and on that topic, if anyone has any input on the non-canon but commonly used side of things for any of the countries/cultures/religions, feel free to send an ask or reblog this :)