#quincey rants

[lilghostiequinni]

Alright

My headache yesterday threw me in a loop, and today, I am going to try to finish them all.

Now, the winner grid fic was one of my OCs from a series, but I was trying to change it as the time that it was scheduled to post approached, and I thought I could think of something and get it done, but I just can't, my mind is blank.

So instead, I will do a grid-shot and I already have parts for my grid series added to the coming weeks

[serial-serializednovelreader]

I think that adaptations who leave Quincey out or make him a horrible person (see 2020 Dracula) miss the point. He's not just a comic relief. he's the oathmaker. He swears to Lucy when she rejects him he'll always be her friend, and he follows through. He swears to Mina he'll not rest until SHE rests, and he follows through. He swears he will kill Dracula to Jonathan, and they shake hands, and he follows through. He gives Dracula one of the two fatal bows, and bleeds and dies, like he swore he would, for those he loves.

Wow, Anon. That was beautiful. You came to my inbox, absolutely destroyed me, and I'm thanking you for it. /pos

You're so right, though. He is the oathmaker, he follows through on his promises no matter what. Also, the Oathmaker is such a cool title is that a thing I missed?? Can that be what we call him forever now if we don't already??

But here I am, doing the exact same thing as the producers/directors, writing him off as comic relief (I did a little more than that, but still)!! I am truly sorry to Quincey, he is not just that and he never was. So thank you, Anon, for reminding me again why I love him so much. Perhaps one day, there will be an adaptation where he's actually appreciated.

As a side note, they made him a horrible person in 2020 Dracula?! Ugh, I started watching it and could not get through it after they killed Jonathan off -- I didn't care if they resurrected him or what, I was done. I just couldn't keep watching Now I don't want to do it even more if they ruined Quincey too!!!! BBC stop trying to be edgy with classic literature challenge (impossible). What are they going to do next? Make a Jane Eyre series where Jane's the wife in the attic the whole time? I shouldn't even write that cause they'll probably think "wow, that's a great idea!" :/

[blue-howlite]

A man invites you to his castle to talk about business, but then he keeps postponing your leave, until you realise he intends on keeping you there. You'd have your own bedroom, a big castle to walk around (except for a few rooms), food and someone who is genuinely interested in talking with you.

Yeah there are some occasional murders in there because things can't be perfect of course. But you're safe as long as you listen to the man's advice.

Are you taking the deal?

If you are, congratulations!

You wouldn't be a very good Jonathan Harker according to the character in the book, but the count would probably like you better!

...no but seriously am I the only one who would accept?

[yallemagne]

Who else wishes there were just more Dracula adaptations where Lucy, Renfield, and Quincey just don't die?

Not that someone else dies in their place, not like a Mina and Lucy swap scenario. Just. Lucy lives, and they get to play with the dynamics of that. Renfield lives, and they get to play with the dynamics of that. Quincey lives... and there are not really many dynamics to play with bc the epilogue is immediately after, but it's just comforting to know he's okay.

It just gets to a point where, in adaptations, the story is void of the original extenuating circumstances that led to Lucy and Renfield's deaths (Quincey had literally no extenuating circumstances, Bram just wanted more tragedy), so their deaths feel convoluted. I feel like adaptations rarely understand why the events in Dracula took place and are rather just... filling a quota.

What if... instead of coming up with convoluted reasons why innocent characters actually "deserved" to be killed... you just... didn't kill them? And you explore what happens from there?

But nah, we're not allowed to have two women exist at once in a movie, we're not allowed to have mentally ill people serve as more than just cannon fodder, and we're not allowed to have cowboys.

[bluecatwriter]

So I watched a tv movie called Bram Stoker's Van Helsing (2021) that's only about the London Lucy segment of the story and… you know how no one (despite Van Helsing's fear) is seething with jealousy over Lucy? well, it's a love triangle now because they wanted to make it more interesting. Arthur and Jack keep headbutting for dominance and Arthur is so jealous that he's the one who throws the garlic away at night, for Jack to not be the one who becomes the hero in Lucy's eyes.

Putting this on the pile of Dracula stuff that includes Arthur, but completely changes him to "fix how boring he is"... (see also Anno Dracula (allies with Dracula, becomes a serial murderer all because the Newman loathed Arthur in the book), The Athena Club series (allies with a demon to become a fascist ruler), Dracula 2006 (huge rich jerk, invites Dracula to fix his syphilis), Dracula 2020 (loves to publicly humiliate Jack, horrible person)

Every day I learn about a new adaptation in which my boy is massacred... :'( Bless you for watching so I don't have to.

Turning the Suitor Squad into a love triangle (square?) is just lazy writing, period. Ohhh, multiple guys are interested in one girl and they're jealous and fight over her?? HOW ORIGINAL. *eye roll* It's such a cliché that there is NO excuse for using it, and triply so when the source material doesn't have it in the first place! Arthur throwing the garlic away because of some male ego thing makes me want to smash a chair through my dining room window.

It's honestly discouraging how little imagination adapters seem to have. All right, adapter guy, so you think Arthur Holmwood is boring... it's not a completely unreasonable statement. But look— look at the actual source material and see what's buried there! Just off the top of my head...

-Being someone who cries so openly and on so many different people is a huge character trait. Show how he's defying Victorian masculine norms by freely expressing emotion (or how he's conforming to the stereotype of Sighing Lover) and do something with that.

-What kind of person travels literally all the way around the world, having tons of wild and wacky adventures, and yet never tells any stories about it? What is his motivation for not trying to impress his girlfriend with tales of running from wolves or crashing a ship in Polynesia? What does this say about the way he experiences life?

-The story is ripe with little hints about how incredibly close he is to both Quincey and Jack. If adapters weren't so homophobic, they could explore all sorts of possibilities there.

-He likes dogs! That's a whole character trait!

-All right, adapter doesn't want to engage with any of that and is set on making him evil? Okay, then, make him evil in a way that fits the source material. Once again, making him jealous of other men or a philandering spoiled lordling are super-cliché. How about thinking about what could make him actually go off the rails? Is he haunted by how obedient he was in killing Lucy, even when he didn't know exactly what was going on? Does he carry a grudge against Van Helsing for making him into a killer? Do we take the text at face value that when he set his mind to it, he was ruthlessly effective in ending Lucy's undead life— does he get addicted to that feeling, does he get righteously caught up in vampire hunting (or just murder) because he can't bear the thought that he could've been wrong?

People making adaptations don't have to follow canon, of course, but it seems reasonable for the decisions to be rooted in canon, for readers/viewers to be able to draw a line from point A to point B. At the very least, there's no excuse to fall back on tiresome tropes.

Thanks for giving me the chance to rant about this. :D

[lxgentlefolkcomic]

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Dialogue transcripts:

Panel 1

Quincey: He talked to you, then. He say anything about himself? Who he is, what he is, that sorta thing?

Panel 2

Kemp: Everything. He told me all there was to tell—and a good deal more through his manner.

Panel 3

Kemp (voice over): His name’s Griffin. He was a student at University College—around the same time I was, in fact, although I’d quite forgotten about him until he turned up in my house.

Panel 4

Irene: That doesn’t sound like…

Quincey: Hmm.

Panel 5

Quincey: This Griffin—he’s human, then?

Panel 6

Kemp: In body, at least, if not in mind. He’d found some scientific process by which he could turn himself invisible—I won’t bore you with the details.

Panel 7

Irene: Are you saying his mind isn’t human?

Kemp: I’m saying he’s turned his back on humanity. You should have heard him, ranting and raving about his plans for a ‘Reign of Terror.’ The man’s mad—homicidal!

[vickyvicarious]

I think Jonathan talks to Jack the most out of all suitors before All That since he is the third main record keeper, but their interactions are off screen and alluded like:

"Harker has gone back, and is again collating his material. He says that by dinner-time they will be able to show a whole connected narrative. He thinks that in the meantime I should see Renfield, as hitherto he has been a sort of index to the coming and going of the Count."

And since the impression he gives to Jack is "quiet, business-like gentleman", yeah I'd say he'd use RP!

(in reference to this post)

Agreed! Jonathan also met Jack first of the suitors, he's staying in the guy's house, and of the three Jack is the least overwhelmingly rich. This is also kind of a side effect of Jack being the next main record keeper but in helping Mina go through the records, he may have gotten a bit used to reading his thoughts or even potentially hearing them spoken (depending on whether he was mostly helping Mina organize things she had already typed, or if he ever took a turn listening too) and thus felt a bit closer to him in a way even before much direct interaction. Not to mention, that interaction you quote shows Jonathan's interest in Renfield, which would naturally lead him first to Jack (I constantly curse the lack of Jonathan/Renfield interaction, it could be so fascinating had Stoker not just Forgot He Was There). Those may be a couple additional reasons he might want to or feel more comfortable coordinating with the doctor more directly. Also Arthur is still very sad and Quincey is still very concerned about Arthur so I can see them being a little less likely to initiate much socializing than they usually would.

But Jonathan's mostly offscreen, helping Mina with the records, going off hunting after boxes... Of course there are some offscreen conversations taking place, and they surely wouldn't be only with Jack, but if what we see in the documents is any indication, Jonathan is fairly quiet and only really speaks up about 'business' (AKA Dracula-hunting) matters. And even then mostly only when he has something new to contribute. He isn't going on any epic rants (yet) and he isn't volunteering to be the one to explain everything from his experience, just bringing up relevant points for discussion or connections. And if he is trying to a) be businesslike/professional b) seem as calm and sane as possible under the circumstances of these people knowing what he's been through and how it's affected his mental health c) be polite with people he is not very familiar with yet... then yeah, I totally can see him using RP during all this time.

So his outpouring of utter emotion on October 3 is a big change, to be sure. And dropping into his natural accent while doing so would be an excellent way to illustrate how every other consideration just completely falls away for him as soon as he knows Mina is being attacked. He can't spare any attention towards sounding sophisticated, his wife has been targeted by his former tormentor and he is out for blood (/vowing to be out for literal blood should worst come to worst).

[picklepie888]

We all rant on about how Quincey Morris gets unfairly shafted in Dracula adaptations, and rightfully so, but I have yet to see a single screen adaptation that includes Quincey Harker.

[luminouslumity]

I've ranted about this so much already, but now that everyone in the core cast has finally been officially introduced...

Jonathan, Mina, and Lucy have always been the three characters I've loved most from the original novel, so when people like Frank forking Coppola turn Jonathan as someone being unworthy of Mina's love for one reason or another, turn Mina into someone who would willingly betray her friends for a murderous vampire simply because she's the reincarnation of his dead wife, and turn Lucy into a naive and/or selfish philanderer who may or may not actually be in love with Mina before betraying her by sleeping with her already terrible partner just because that love went unrequited (as you can probably tell, I wasn't a fan of NBC's Dracula, either), it's become incredibly frustrating! What probably annoys me the most though is that even Stoker's own great-grandnephew wrote a sequel with similar beats: Jonathan's a terrible husband, Mina's in love with Dracula, blah blah blah.

And don't even get me started on how everyone else is treated! Quincey in particular seems to be left out the most (at least from what I've noticed) and I still can't decide if it's for the best or not, and while van Helsing at least has the honor of being made into a cool vampire slayer... it's not always with the best interests at heart.

Part of why I loved Renfield and Voyage so much is that Dracula is actually made into a villain again, but really, I wouldn't have a problem with a more sympathetic portrayal of the character if it weren't at everyone else's expense!

[lilghostiequinni]

Just a quick update for today because a lot should be coming today, I'll do another update in a few hours about the polls, but I woke up today with the biggest headache, and I've been trying to work through it. I've taken painkillers and drank tea just in case it isn't a caffeine headache. Tea is literally the only thing I drink with caffeine in it. And my headache hasn't gone; it is only 10 in the morning where I am; you would think I wouldn't have a headache yet, but I do. I'm going to lie down for a few hours to see if it goes away and try to get rid of it.

I'll see you all in a few hours.

[serial-serializednovelreader]

I'm curious, do you know what your MBS and Dracula related nicknames would be?

My first (non-spam) ask! Yay!!

I actually never thought this far ahead, but I did think of some, so here are my ideas!

MBS: I think I’d want to be named Madge because Kate is my favorite character and being named after a character who’s close to her would be epic!! A weirder idea I had is Whisp, after the Whisperer, which sounds bad, but hear me out. Yes, it is an invention used to take people’s memories away, but in the books, it does also end up being used to restore memories and as a tool for good. So, in that way, I would totally love to use it as a redemption arc name to show that even things invented for bad purposes can be retooled for good (though probably a controversial take, which I get)!

Dracula: For this, I would likely just shorten one of the character’s names. My favorite is Quin(n) for Quincey (who wouldn’t want to be named after an awesome cowboy??), but I also like Min, Luce, and Ren. However, I refuse to be named after the character Dracula in any way!!! I hate him and his Lizard FashionTM (yes I could rant about this all day, no you probably don’t want to hear it).

Thanks for the ask, Sophie! 😊

[yallemagne]

God fucking dammit why are the Quincey II WWI posts coming back.

Oh my god write a fucking fanfic you guys, I don't have time to play into your little thought experiment of "wouldn't it be upsetting if a boy has to suffer through a remorseless war". I'm not gonna fuckin' humour this until one of you makes it an interesting idea.

And I know my opinion doesn't really matter, but I'm sick and tired of it. It's very easy to flesh out an idea past the "you know it would be sad if" stage, I did it with Jonathan fucking dying and Quincey II growing up without a father. DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR HEADCANON PLEASE FOR GOD'S SAKE.

Also Jojo did it first. Jonathan and Erina's son, George II, named after Jonathan's father who was stabbed trying to protect him, went into WWI as a pilot and was killed trying to stop a vampire who was among the high-ranking officers.

FUCKIN DO SOMETHING AS BARE-MINIMUM AS LAYING THAT OUT! I'M SO TIRED OF "Quincey II... is drafted... uh? horrors? being kinda supernatural plays in maybe... it's very sad I swear".

Do something creative. You know that soldiers survived WWI, right? You know it wasn't all just trenches, right? You know that Arthur could pull strings to at least get Quincey in a position where he's not on the front lines, RIGHT??

But you don't know because you haven't thought past the idea of "war is sad". But why would it even be sad if Quincey serves his country? Plenty of people find it to be an honourable thing to do. People volunteer and people dedicate their lives to the military. The Crew of Light treated their fight against Dracula like a war to save England. I understand perhaps the Harkers are pacifists, but you can literally cite religious pacificism as a way to avoid the draft. You can cite "his uncle is super rich" and avoid the draft. Literally, the reasons people give for why Quincey would not be drafted are far more researched and interesting than "well, uh, I heard that there was a war once, and that was pretty sad".

They couldn't have possibly known how WWI was gonna be, they didn't even know it was gonna be the first of two world wars. So why then does the angst of this headcanon depend on these fictional characters (that, mind you, don't exist in a world where WWI is a thing) having the hindsight-fueled dread that we have surrounding WWI? They wouldn't fucking know about trench warfare and nukes going into it. They wouldn't know about mustard gas. So why is it scary? Why is it sad? I'm not just gonna blindly assume everything bad that could happen happens, you gotta lay out a PLOT, sweetheart.

It's like if, instead of writing a book, Bram Stoker wrote down "what if some guy met a vampire? that would be angsty, right? that'd be pretty scary." Nope, not invested.

[popsicle-stick]

skimming dracula the un-dead on the openlibrary was a mistake. forgetting is not enough. i need to excise it from my brain

shouting about it under a readmore because much gore. and horror. and very, very bad sex

so like.....jack seward is there. for like, twenty pages max, as a sad wasted away vampire hunter before he is immediately almost comically flattened by a carriage, mid vampire fight

i actually agree with the /idea/ of jack as a sad, wasted away vampire hunter but their execution was.......so bad. 1992 coppola jack sadly injecting himself from a bottle with 'MORPHINE' written in comically large letters vibes

dacre stoker, for someone who makes big things out of his distant relation to bram, has for some reason? forgotten half the details of the book his relative wrote? jack's asylum is in whitby, now, and also mina and jon apparently only met like, a year previous to their engagement? and jon knew jack before the book now? because renfield was the first solicitor mr hawkins sent to dracula??

for some reason bram stoker himself is a character in this book. do not ask.

mina literally acts like a cardboard cutout. bram stoker himself could not have achieved this. young quincey is like 'mum why's dad an absentee alcholic who cheats on you with Bar Wenches' and mina just sits there like 'quincey son it is impolite to speak of such things' but it's impossible to make it sound as wooden as it does in the book

talking of the man himself. i have no words. jonathan harker deserves a written apology and £500,000,00 exactly in compensation from these writers. horrible thing is, he actually, like, starts out ok? in the aforementioned jonmina first meeting they're at some kind of ball with High Society, which makes zero sense, and mina meets jon as he's ranting about socialism to some toff. comrade jonathan. apparently mina wrote in the daily telegraph under a male pen name, which, sick! and her and jon have a partnership where he legally defends the poor and vulnerable (not that kind of lawyer but whatever) and she generates publicity in the paper. what could have been!!

like. i knew jonathan's portrayal was bad. but [starts pouring a gin] i didn't realise how bad it would be. post-og book he goes down the classic sequel route of alcoholism and cheating and being a shitty husband and socialism who? [WARNING] he ends up going off with a Wench who turns out to be a vampire and he ends his days skewered alive like a shish kebab on a giant 'shaft' (stoker phallic imagery WHO!!) in the middle of picadilly circus. with um. organs and everything. dacre stoker and ian holt i am going to haunt you both for this

i basically gave up at that point, but basically, all the main cast from the og book die in horrific ways (jonathan taking the cake) and of course mina's True First Passion and Love was for dracula (who is the good guy, by the way!!! he's trying to save everyone!!!!) and this is what causes harker family breakdown and oh god this book is so bad i can't go on any longer. i hope i die. i hope you die. i hope we both die

oh yeah. i think vh is vampirised and arthur just dies of Sadness or something. I Have Already Given Up

[ubyr-babaj]

Anyway I need to rant about my book's main Renfield (pretty much the 1977 guy with more Catholicism sprinkled on top). Like, the trauma of him being a mentally ill gay man in a hyperconservative society fuels his flaws. He is pretty misogynistic, he openly admits he doesn't care that the Crew throws constant microagressions in Quincey's face, he struggles to actually care about Lucy's fate. There's a scene where he flips the fuck out at fully vampirized Mina and asks her what she did to deserve being worshipped, not realizing that the Crew's worship of her is as misogynistic as their hatred of vampire!Lucy. He asks Mina why she deserves to go for a walk with her husband and fall asleep in his arms and he doesn't, ignoring the fact that he's talking about the guy who raped her, her husband and her best friend. Like his trauma doesn't make him a bigger person or a better person, it just makes him a very miserable dude who'll scalp a person for some coffee and a theological debate with a hot man.

[partywithponies]

If Demons had ever got off the ground amd become popular, Quincey Harker would've had SUCH tumblr sexyman energy.

He's an angsty pretty boy? He kills people? He has a tragic backstory (that he very openly angsts about. ranting about "my own mother tried to kill me, I was forced to fight in a war I didn't believe in" in the middle of a hostage negotiation)? He's a vampire? He's the definition of the Came Back Wrong trope (he was fatally wounded in the trenches in WW1, wracked with grief Mina Harker turned him into a vampire on his deathbed, but the combined trauma of the war and of being turned into a vampire against his will turned him mad and evil and bloodthirsty)? He's charming and seductive to pretty young women, before killing them? And yet sometimes he doesn't kill the young women he flirts with, even though he could’ve? He used his dying breath to comfort and reassure his mother???

Oh if the show had got popular, 2009/2010 era tumblr would've EATEN HIM UP