#proto indo Iranian

[molkolsdal]

white

safed: Persian, Urdu/Hindi, Tajik

shofed: Bengali

saphed: Marathi

sapheda: Odia

safaid: Punjabi

spin: Pashto

spî: Northern and Central Kurdish

spîd: Southern Kurdish

išpéru: Khowar

séta: Javanese (literary)

śvet: Hindi, Gujarati

śvēta: Kannada

[yvanspijk]

English is part of a large language family that includes French, Welsh, Polish, Persian, Greek, and Albanian. They stem from a common ancestor reconstructed as Proto-Indo-European.  The cardinal numerals from 1 to 10 illustrate their relationship well. Click the image for a selection.

[mehilaiselokuva]

Finnish words by unusual language of origin

*note: this does not list all the languages that the word was borrowed from, only the oldest known origin of it

*also: if you've never seen a word on this list, please don't doxx me. These are all real words. I don't spread misinformation. Why do I still need to put this in my posts

Job: Ammatti (from proto-celtic *ambaxtos) Fun Fact: this is the same root that forms the english word “Ambassador”!

Wagon: Kärry (from proto-celtic *karros) Fun Fact: This is the root that forms the English word “Car”!

Poem: Runo (from proto-celtic *rūnā) Fun Fact: This is the root that forms the English word “Rune”!

Hikikomori: Hikky (from Japanese hikikomori 引き籠もり)

Clam: Simpukka (from Mandarin zhēnzh�� 珍珠)

Goods: Tavara (from proto-turkic *tabar) Fun Fact: words descended from this root can be found as far as China and Siberia!

Dungeon, jail: Tyrmä (from proto-turkic *türmä) Fun Fact: This toot extends to Azerbaijan and even Yiddish!

Rauma (city name) (from proto germanic *straumaz meaning stream)

Cherry: Kirsikka (from ancient creek kerasós κερασός which might also have older forms) Fun Fact: this word is widespread, even appearing in Arabic.

God: Jumala (possibly from proto-indo-iranian) Fun Fact: This word could be related to Sanskrit dyumna द्युम्न if it is from proto-indo-iranian

[linguisticdiscovery]

Words you didn’t know are related: gold, yellow, cholera, arsenic, yolk, and more!

The Proto-Indo-European language (the hypothesized original ancestor language of most modern languages in Europe and South Asia, hereafter abbreviated “PIE��) had a root *ǵʰelh₃- ‘yellow, green’. Aside: How can this word refer to both ‘yellow’ and ‘green’? Historically, color terms in the world’s languages referred to a broader range of colors than they do today, and focused more on the texture…

[rrcraft-and-lore]

[druidicentropy]

*H₂eryo-men

* H₂eryo-men is the fictitious name for a deity in Proto-Indo-European religion, linked to healing, the formation of marriage, and the construction and maintenance of roads or paths. The deity is believed to be responsible for community well-being.

The noun *h₃eryos, which means "a member of one's own group" or "someone belonging to the community," as opposed to a foreigner, is the source of the term *h₂eryo-men. Further derivatives of this root are the Indo-Iranian *árya, "noble, hospitable", and the Celtic *aryo-, "free man" (most notably as aire, "noble, chief" in Old Irish, and as arios, "free man, lord" in Gaulish).

Xaryomen is another spelling of his name.

The Vedic god Aryaman, who is mentioned in the Vedas for his ties to social and matrimonial ties, is one of the descendant deities in later traditions. Similarly, the Iranian god Airyaman, mentioned in the Gāthās, is invoked in prayers to ward off illness, sorcery, and evil. He represents the larger tribal community or alliance. The legend that tells the story of Ireland's founding names the hero Érimón as the first king of the Milesians, the mythical people who inhabited the island after it was taken from the Tuatha Dé Danann. This legend also addresses the roles that  *h₂eryo-men played in marriage by giving wives to the Cruithnig, the mythical Celtic Britions or Picts. The influence of the deity is further demonstrated by the Gaulish name Ariomanus, which means "lord-spirited" and was frequently used by Germanic chiefs.

[capricorn-0mnikorn]

The other day, I learned (according to Wikipedia)

According to researchers at Durham University and the Universidade Nova de Lisboa, the tale type (AT 328, The Boy Steals Ogre's Treasure) to which the Jack story belongs may have had a Proto-Indo-European language (PIE) origin (the same tale also has Proto-Indo-Iranian variants),[10] and so some think that the story would have originated millennia ago (4500 BC to 2500 BC).[7]

‼‼‼

[mapsontheweb]

The words for "beer" in languages and dialects.

The old fashioned Iranian "buze" sadly has nothing to do with English "booze".

Georgian is interesting: > Ludi. ‎(aludi) (Racha dialect)

> According to Abaev, borrowed from Ossetian ӕлут ‎(ælut), see ӕлутон ‎(æluton); ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *h₂elut-. That brewing among Georgians has only been popular among highlanders, coupled with the fact that beer plays a central part in Alanic life and folklore may be a good indicator of the borrowing.

Sorry if I missed anything. Be aware that I did not limit myself to one per language. If I read somewhere that X-region says Y, then I'll add it.

by jkvatterholm

[victusinveritas]

Starkey comics: I've made a giant tree of Indo-European languages! 🌳🌸

Actually this was just intended a template with which I plan to make a bunch of images about related words in these languages, so stay tuned for that. And I'll probably put a HD version of this image on my site soon too.

This image shows 64 living Indo-European languages (around the outside), as well as many dead and extinct languages.

Moving into the image from the outside we travel back in time, until we reach the core of the image, wherein lies Proto-Indo-European. PIE was spoken somewhere around the border of Europe and Asia, and diverged into the 10 inner Proto languages shown here 4500+ years ago.

There are about 380 Indo-European languages missing from this image, although I've tried to pick representatives from as many branches as possible. The Indo-Iranian branch is the largest, actually accounting for around 2 thirds of Indo-European languages.

-⭐🗝️

[ishparpuaqib]

so, from what i understand:

after the split of proto-tocharian, late proto-indo-european seems to have continued functioning as a single dialect continuum for a very, very long time, with the remaining (historically attested) branches of indo-european separating from each other more or less simultaneously (with the possible exception of italo-celtic—note, ofc, the probably not-accidental fact italo-celtic represents the westernmost branch of indo-european proper)

there is no reason to believe the earliest attested languages grouped under indo-european proper (i.e. excluding anatolian and tocharian), cf. greek, actually separated from (late) proto-indo-european earlier than those attested relatively late in the historic record (like albanian, or the various germanic languages)

internal divisions within core indo-european ("northwest proto-indo-european", the whole satem phenomenon, etc.) are all presently understood to represent zones of convergence through areal contact, and are not considered to constitute proof of genetic closeness even when they involve common innovations in morphology and phonology (mostly because all such innovations exist on a clear geographic gradient—cf. the frustrating example of albanian sharing quite a few common innovations with greek, and greek sharing quite a few innovations with armenian... but albanian and armenian sharing no remarkable innovations at all)

there are some very curious lexical parallels between italic and indo-iranian—specifically relating to the semantic domains of kingship and statemanship—that can't be explained away as having been borrowed from a common substrate or preserved from an archaic stage of pie, as they don't appear to be shared by either anatolian or tocharian. ???

how maximally unsatisfying...

[somethingusefulfromflorida]

Doing research for a conlang

search: indo-european consonant shifts

results: Grimm's law, Grimm's law, nothing but Grimm's law, Germanic languages are the only ones that exist, don't even bother asking about anything else

search: indo-iranian consonant shifts

results: here's a map of Iran, here's ten thousand maps of Iran, and here's a chart of the Persian writing system. How about Indian food near you?

search: proto-indo-european daughter language sound shifts

results: GRIMM'S LAW BABY!!! And here's a map of Eurasia from Wikipedia for your troubles. Fuck you.

I checked; my library district has exactly ZERO books on any of the subjects I'm looking for across 12 branches throughout the entire county. Remember when the internet was the information super highway? I may as well be asking random strangers off the street!

[looking-at-the-deiwos]

Dyḗus Pətḗr

or as I write it, Dyéus Patér. Also Dyḗus ph₂tḗr

Dyéus is the god of the Sky. The blue, bright sky of day, daylight and clouds are his natural dominion. He also fulfills the role of a Father and is the Leader of the whole pantheon (my own UPG is that he leads the déiwōs not like a king but like a father).

Dyéus is also connected to the concept of the Ártus or Hártus (with a strong h like the ch in loch). The Ártus is the universal law that underlies the cosmos, the order and beauty of it that makes life possible. Dyéus, then, upholds the Ártus and represents the concept of justice but in a cosmic and natural way (justice as in the laws of society are the dominion of another déiwos). In the trifunctional view of Proto Indo-european society, he fulfills the role of the priest-king. He's a patron of priests and the idea of doing rituals in respectful ways.

The first part of his name, Dyéus, derives from déiwos, which is the generic term for a god. So in a way he is THE god. The second part of his name, Patér, means father. Thus, seeing him as your father in the sky is totally valid (traditional even ;)!

In english his name literally means "father daylight-sky-god"

He seems to have had a connection to oaths, coming from his connection with the natural law of the Ártus.

The sun (which has its own déiwos) is sometimes referred to as "the eye of Dyéus"

Dyéus also has other names like Olyópətēr, which means All-Father, and Mitrós, which is associated with a role he had as a double deity with another god that we will see later)

Offerings

Taken from here

Feathers of either eagles or of your local highest flying birds

Depictions or imagery of clouds

Depictions or imagery of oxen

Depictions or imagery of eagles

Depictions or imagery related to fatherhood

Golden beads

Devotional acts

Mostly UPG

Cloud watching

Wearing blue

Learning about different types of clouds

Collecting feathers

Climbing a hill or mountain

Doing things related to fatherhood or leadership

Associations

Taken from here and here

Oxen

Mountain tops

The open sky

Clouds as his herd

Eagles

Feathers of high flying birds

Eye

Gold threads

Obelisk (white)

Alder

Thursday

January

Descendants in later pantheons

The deities of the Proto Indo-European (PIE) pantheon are reconstructed based on the cognates (similar names, myths and such) between later deities in different pantheons of indo-european peoples (Greek, Roman, Germanic, Nordic, Vedic, Iranian, Celtic, Slavic, Baltic, among others). As these people spread out they took their gods with them which got reshaped through generations and the evolution of language.

Dyéus is the most securely reconstructed deity of the proto indo-europeans. Here are some of his most famous descendants or versions in later pantheons:

Zeus (Greek)

Jupiter (Roman)

Tyr (Nordic)

Tiwaz (Germanic)

Diēvas (Lithuanian)

Dyaus Pitar (Vedic)

The Dagda (Celtic)

Mitra (Vedic and Iranian)

Finally, here's his wikipedia article

[yvanspijk]

English (he/she) eats, Welsh ysa, Ancient Greek édei, Sanskrit átti and Polish je all stem from the same Indo-European verb. Over time, words change beyond recognition, undergoing regular sound changes and irregular alterations. Here's the family of eats.

[mehilaiselokuva]

A fun fact about your kekri vocabulary post: the word kekri is possibly an ancient inde-european loan word, which makes it a cognate to e.g. the sanskrit word chakra :)

Hi!

This is exactly what my major is about so I loved seeing this ask!

Another interesting thing about this word is that if it is from Proto-Indo-Iranian *čakrám which KOTUS gives as a possible source, it would also be related to the Proto-Indo-European *kʷékʷlos, which in turn produced Proto-Finnish *kakla (modern Finnish kaula)

But this might not be the case at all and the word is related to some Sámi words like NS geavri.

I had forgotten I made that post tbh, it's ancient! How are you guys finding these old posts of mine

[discolesbo]

Historical Finnish and Indo-Iranian connection?

Yes!

Vajra, Sanskrit for "thunderbolt", is the weapon Indra, the thunder god in Hinduism. In Finnish mythology, the thunder god Ukko's weapon is a hammer or an axe, referred to as vasara or vaaja. Both words have the same origin as the word vajra.

In Finnish mythology, the sky is being held up by a pillar called sammas, which connects to the Polar Star and spins the sky dome. The word's origin is in the Proto-Indo-Iranian word *stámbʰHas, meaning pillar. The words for pillar in Sanskrit, Hindi and other related languages (stambha, stambh, etc) are also of the same origin.

And finally, the Finnish harvest festival and original new years celebration is known as kekri (plus other dialectical varians of the same word). The word originates from the Proto-Indo-Iranian *ḱekrám (later*čakrám), meaning "wheel". I guess it makes sense, considering that people's view of time used to be cyclical instead of linear. A year is but another cycle in time. (The cycle of seasons meaning also exists in later Sanskrit descendants of the word.)

[rrcraft-and-lore]

The Celtic Goddess Danu - the Mother Goddess, the goddess of and manifest divine waters. The waters that fell from heaven to create the sacred river, Danuvis or the Danube.

The Tuatha De Danaan are translated as "The Children of Danu."

There are similarities here between this Ganga and the forming of the Ganges. But more notably, Danu from Hindiusm - the primordial mother goddess of ancient/first old waters - liquid. There is also a river named Danu in Nepal.

She is the mother of the Danavas, a larger category of the Asuras - celestial/supernatural beings of god like powers, but calling them gods exactly is incorrect. Asuras and Devas are larger in some ways than that - celestial/cosmic beings of princely domains/abilities is slightly more accurate, but for all intents an purposes. There are more similarities between Celtic and Vedic/Hindu culture/myths.

Why?

Well, recent research has shown Celtic genetics shows paternal and maternal ancestry from ancient India (R-M269 deriving via R1b, and H & U haplogroups) - is it really that weird then we see echoes of the ancient Indian epics echoed throughout other parts of the world, especially with the history of Eurasian/South Asian trade, migration, and more?

There is a story well known in the South Asian stories, but let's talk about the similar Celtic one. A tale of how a hero has to build a causeway across the waters to reach his foe, and how his wife must outsmart her captor/villain.

Some Indians are already nodding their heads. We begin with the Celtic hero: Fionn mac Cumhaill, a hero who is born just after his father dies. 

Does this sound somewhat familiar?

Well, here we have Rama, born to Dasaratha, who is cursed to die soon as his son leaves him. His father dies as soon as Rama is exiled from Ayodhya. 

Finn goes on to study with poets, warriors, and hunters in the forest of Sliabdh Bladma.

Rama goes to the forest hermitage where he learns similar arts under Vasitha. 

Finn later in his youth goes on to destroy the fire breathing demon Áillen of the Tuatha (Children of Danu analogous of Aditi here btw) who destroys the capital of Tara every year on Samhain (a celebration very similar to the Indian Pitru Paksha btw) 

Rama as a teen kills the Asuras attacking the hermitage - the enemies of the Devas (children of Aditi), interestingly enough just like I've talked about in the Norse (how you have two bodies of celestial/god beings - Aesir and Vanir), the Greeks have it, there is also a flipping that happens in a lot of these ancient cultures.

Aesir and Asura come from the proto indo European asr - but in one group one is good, the other bad. However in the Iranian - Zoroastrian, there is a reverse. The Ahura (Asura) are GOOD and the Devas are bad (down to including Indra from South Asian mythology), and in the Celtic we see something similar - a flipping of roles.

Rama, Sita, and her protector Lakshmana were all in exile together in the forest. The demon king Ravana sends a golden deer to tempt/seduce and lure away Sita from Rama but it is really the demon Maricha in disguise. Sita is tricked and ends up sending her protector to Rama, leaving herself vulnerable, and thus abducted by Ravana who wishes to marry her and this leads to a war in where Rama eventually gets her back also, kidnapping of a women sparking a war? OH HI, HELEN OF TROY. HI.

Fionn meets his wife Sabadh while hunting, and guess what? She is turned into a deer by a druid she refuses to marry. She returns to her true form once in Fionn's home and they marry...only she's turned into a deer again by the druid Fear Doirich when Fionn was off at war, and Fionn must spend years searching for her. Wow. Coinky dinky dinky. 

Now to the original part of my talk here, the causeway in Ireland was built by Fionn to travel to battle a giant. Rama Setu, his causeway, was built by Rama's army so he could enter Lanka to do battle there - (Sri Lanka).

The Celts also have four major cycles of time just like the Vedic Indians did. The tricky thing here is that linguistically, PIE (proto Indo European) has been shown to be behind a lot of story/cultural influences as it spread through Europe/Asia, but...the thing that's hard to account for here is how geo-located Ramayama is in/to India, so why do specific echoes of it show up in Celtic mythology so much so?

Yay comparative mythology and echoed storytelling/beats tropes across the world.