#pro marauders

[iwriteasfotini]

Where do we draw the villain line?

Something which is so intriguing to me about the Harry Potter fandom is how flexible *most/some/a few* (honestly IDK how many) people are in giving the villains of the story their own story. Personally I LOVE THIS. Because the best villains are the ones who aren't simply macho bad guys (or gals) who are bad because the author said so. The best villains are the ones you are almost rooting for. The ones you begin to think... wait maybe that person isn't so bad. Or the ones who earn some empathy. And then go and be total arse holes anyways. Because a good story needs a villain, it's simply a fact.

If there was ever a time to remember humans are each living our own story, it is now. It doesn't excuse ANYTHING. It is infuriating and sad. But it is reality. Someone's villain is someone else's hero. And vice versa. But let's not get off on a tangent.

Now the curious thing is while certain HP characters are given some grace where their evil deeds are concerned, others are not. Like at all. Have any of you read Crimson Rivers? Of course you have! If you want to shift your mindset on how you view most of the Death Eaters, read that fic. But in it, I do not remember Mulciber or Avery being mentioned in any sort of good light. Walburga... her terrible parenting is quite undisputed. Umbridge! Barty Crouch Senior! I think Vernon Dursley falls into this category. There are still characters who are seen as simply evil for the sake of evil.

So how did Tom, Bella, Barty, Draco (but I mean, Draco is really a terrible villain to begin with) and a few others end up with backstory, humanity, and quite a few people invested in them. I don't have the answer, but it is an interesting phenomena. Because I am quite new to the fandom and it took all of three tumblr posts to get me fully on board with Rosekiller. Bella, I don't like her, but she is a fascinating character to write for. And she has redeemable qualities. Tom is a cold hearted killer who might have turned out completely different if he didn't have the childhood trauma he did. I imagine Tom's orphanage life was about as void of love and affection as it is possible to be. Sure his basic survival needs were taken care of, but he wasn't loved. And that was his life from birth.

Perhaps it is the fact there is just enough humanity given to these characters in canon that in fandom we take that nugget of humanity and turn it into a full fledged backstory. Barty is a great example. He is screaming at his father during his trial and his father flat up ignores him, all while his mother is weeping in the background. His mother sacrifices herself for him, then DIES two days later (clearly she wasn't in good health to begin with... hmmmmm...). Does Barty even have a Dark Mark? WE DON'T KNOW. Does Barty feel like he has a personal connection with Voldemort, yes, their fathers were both pieces of shite. How did Barty learn this about Tom? It means Tom went out of his way to connect with Barty on a PERSONAL level at some point. Why would he bother, he so rarely give away personal information? Also I feel Barty has a relationship with Winky which is reminiscent of Regulus and Kreacher. Basically there is mutual love and respect on some level (while some wizards see house-elves as servants only).

The fact we can ask all these questions about someone who essentially guided Harry to his should have been death and then was kissed by a dementor (which Dumbledore was LIVID about BTW) makes him such great fodder for the fandom to sculpt a intriguing if not rich back story. It's why I was able to get on board with the Barty isn't a pure villain idea so fast. And I think it really enhances the fandom.

On a side note, Peter's an interesting one as I feel like he is often either forgotten about or lumped into the evil for evil's sake category. Peter made appalling choices, but I think he has a backstory, just like everyone, which can at least account for some of why he did what he did. And it does not have to do with him being bullied, pushed around, or constantly berated by his supposed friends. The Marauders loved each other, and Peter was included in that love.

That being said, there are plenty of people who disagree. Who like to see the Death Eaters as evil. Who cannot fathom how anyone in their right mind can ship Jegulus or be invested in a villain. But to those people I say, Regulus committed suicide as part of taking down Voldemort, Remus put peoples lives at risk every time he left the shack while he was at Hogwarts, Sirius has made some very questionable choices, Harry uses Sectumsempra on Draco, Severus was a Death Eater who changed allegiance, Ron deserts his friends/Harry when they need him, even Fred and George test products on first years and give Hermione a black eye. The lines between good and bad (which are at least somewhat defined in canon) become far less clear in fandom. As Sirius says, the world isn't split between good people and Death Eaters.

If you have read this far into my rant, kuddos to you. If you enjoy thinking and talking about backstory of HP villains, maybe we can connect in some capacity and exchange HC's and thoughts. I also hope you will check out my very epic series which has started posting on Ao3 because I am striving to tell a lot of people's stories in a fast paced, entertaining way.

Thank you for your time and attention. This concludes my rant.

[wee-chlo]

I'm rereading Harry Potter and it's baffling how people just... pretend Snape was a completely different person than who he actually was?

Granted, Alan Rickman's Snape and Book Snape are two genuinely different people, to the point that I think Movie Snape would be mildly disgusted by Book Snape. Movie Snape came off more as someone who was angry and spiteful to a select few for reasons that ranged from Understandable to Irrationally Petty, but generally very grim and stern, with a good heart beneath it all. Book Snape is a piece of shit.

Movie Snape doesn't have the same cruelty as Book Snape: his targeting of anyone other than Harry is framed in a more slapstick way and his teaching isn't neary as abusive. Neville being terrified of him doesn't have the same implicit showcasing of Snape being abusive but rather Snape being stern and unforgiving while Neville is meek and needs positive reinforcement to flourish.

Movie Snape is stoic, deadpan. I saw a clip of Rickman on YouTube and either he, a commenter, or both noted that a touchstone of Rickman's performance for Snape was that he didn't raise his voice. Not so in the books, where Snape's described several times loosing his temper and screaming, even shrieking. Snape is terrifyingly volatile in the books, in contrast to the movies where even at his most furious, most emotional, he remains in control of himself.

Book Snape is, unambiguously, just a bad person. Not just a bad teacher, a bad PERSON. He is a small, bitter, petty bully who shouldn't be anywhere near children, and honestly Dumbledore letting him near children is probably more of an indictment of Dumbledore's character than the fact that he used to be a wizard supremacist.

And to be clear, while teenage Snape isn't AS bad as adult Snape by virtue of being a teenager... he was also just Not Good. He ran around with Wizard Nazis. Lily called him out on that, on the fact that he was clearly ready and rearing to join Voldemort, that he used Dark Magic on other students alongside his death eater buddies, etc.

James and Co were little shits who teased and picked on students. But Remus and Sirius made a point that Snape and James had a uniquely, mutually hostile relationship. Remus and Sirius state directly that ultimately, one of the primary reasons James targeted Snape was because Snape was "up to his eyeballs in the Dark Arts and James hated the Dark Arts".

I've seen people use the fact that James never apologized to Snape as an indictment of James' character but like... when and why would he have apologized?

Genuinely, I think if Snape had made a good faith effort to be a better person BEFORE the death of the Potters, James may have apologized. But Snape at the time of James' death was a literal wizard nazi and honestly? I can't see him feeling terribly bad about bullying him, or at least not feeling obliged to apologize. And even if he had, how would he have done so? Send an owl to wizard nazi HQ?

But I think the thing that made me bristle the most about the books was the gaslighting that happened in book 6.

Remus is... going through it in that book, fair enough, but when Harry is talking to him about his suspicious, he gently accuses Harry of "inheriting James' and Sirius' prejudice" and being "determined to hate [Snape]". Like.... I'm sorry, but did Remus get hit in the head? Are we supposed to just casually forget EVERYTHING SNAPE HAS SAID AND DONE TO HARRY IN THE LAST FIVE BOOKS?!

If anyone came into it with an inherited prejudice and a determination to hate, it was Snape.

Justice for Book 6 Harry, everyone's treating him like he's bonkers but he's right.

[darkcrowprincess]

Harry Potter thoughts:

Sirius Black and Severus Snape were the only characters in the series that were named (secret names of course) in titles of books with Harry's name. And I like to think it's like each character is like a secret window into who James and Lily Potter was as people. They each haunt the narrative. But especially in each of those books. It's funny in a soft bittersweet way to think about. Both of the Potters best friends being in a title of a book. I like to think of it as representing several things. Two parts of a whole of Harry's parents love for him. Two people to stand guard to protect Harry. Two people to represent a kind of gift James and Lily left behind for Harry. Sirius gave Harry the love he always wanted. And Snape, he kept Harry alive. For better or worse he made sure Harry survived. It's again a bittersweet thing to think about. It's like Lily and James are saying to Harry, "Death is keeping us from being with you Harry, so we will send the two people we know best to watch over and keep you safe in our stead."

@potions-of-dark-devotion

(Don't like don't read. Post hate and I'll block you!)

[readwithlivvy]

just a fun friendly reminder that snape tried to get sirius' soul sucked out, even though he knew sirius was innocent!

[licorice-and-rum]

Snape's Full Character Analysis

Okay, so I’ve already made this kind of post in my previous account (licorice-lips) but since it got deleted, here I go again because I think the world should hear more about this.

I do hate Severus Snape — and I have little to no patience for those who do and try to justify his actions with whatever. But unlike many people, my dislike for Snape doesn’t stem from “oh, he’s a child abuser” or “oh, he didn’t love Lily” but from a mix of many factors involving among other things, the way R*wling portrays supremacist ideology and its followers, the way the fandom often downplays supremacist ideology and its followers, and Snape as a character himself.

Now, I’m going to extend this essay into a full character analysis instead of just commenting on how Snape’s redemption arc sucks like I did previously because I’m feeling like it. To begin, I need you to understand how… biased R*wling’s portray of supremacist ideology really is:

J.K. Rowling is European and English (duh), which means she descends from a people who benefited (a lot and still do) from colonialism and imperialism, and both things are the basis for modern day fascism. As an author myself, it’s painfully clear to me how intrinsically close my characters and works are from myself and my own personal values. As such, it’s not such a hardship — especially if we remember how the elves and goblins are portrayed in HP — to understand how Rowling views political issues such as colonialism, imperialism and fascism.

She may not realize it but the way she does talk about the matter is such a right-wing way of tolerance to fascist thinking: as it’s very clear in Harry Potter just because of the story, the problem for the author isn’t a system of prejudice and bigotry, it’s those very few people who have become corrupted. Rowling does not identify the problem as the tree being bad when most apples — save one of two — have turn out bad. And that’s the core problem of so many things in Harry Potter but it also shows in the core problem I have with Snape’s portrayal: the way she absolutely downplays the fact that the man was a death eater for years of his life by pure and absolute conviction.

As someone who lived through a fascistic government, I’ll say it with all certainty: even the slightest support to fascistic views will propel further an agenda that will end up killing innocent people by the dozens. The truth is, even with all the undeniable good Snape did as he worked as a spy, he was a Death Eater for his conviction and at the end of the day it doesn’t matter why he chose to become one.

At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter that he was neglected and abused by his parents, or that he was bullied in school, or that his crush didn’t reciprocated his feelings: he still became a Death Eater, he chose to become one. And that is unforgivable. It unforgivable because it means he supported and actively worked for a system of thinking that ridiculed, persecuted, tortured and murdered hundreds, if not thousands, of innocent people. He advocated for a political view that has no regard for human life, that perpetuates the abuse he suffered firsthand — just in a slightly different direction. He didn’t just not break his cycle of abuse, he actively perpetuated it. Advocated for it.

And don’t get me wrong: I’m not saying here that the abuse Snape went through isn’t important at all: there is definitely something to be said about the preying of supremacist groups for young isolated men who feel left out and emasculated. But that doesn’t mean Snape gets to be absolved for his own choices because that’s what they were: his choices. He chose to become a Death Eater, he chose to uphold the cycles of abuse he had been a victim to not long before, he chose to protect it even in the face of people — good people — telling him that it wasn’t a good thing.

That’s my point, actually: Snape may have been preyed upon by the blood supremacy ideology as a teen but at some point, he chose to be influenced by it more than by millions of other influences around him. He wasn’t completely isolated or ignorant of the world to the point that the only influence he could possibly choose was the blood supremacy one, no: he had people telling him the contrary and still chose to follow blood supremacy. So, no, it’s not forgivable that he chose to become a Death Eater because he did know better than that, his very friendship with Lily proved it.

But because Rowling sees the system — a system whose very roots are prejudice and bigotry — as not actually the problem, we see these problems sliding down the hill of “oh, he was just a misguided boy” even if that’s not what she herself says: it’s what her work says.

The truth is, as much as some supremacist’s core reason for their beliefs are a deep feeling of inadequacy, that’s not enough simply because they’ll cause as much damage with their actions than any other supremacist that’ll become a supremacist for the hatred alone. Snape, who (for some) was propelled into supremacy for his isolation in his teenage years, persecuted and tortured and killed as many people as Lucius or Bellatrix did, the result is the same. And at the end of the day, the reason why you did something doesn’t matter as much as the fact that you did do something.

We can cry a river about how our intentions were good but that doesn’t mean that what we did was. Between our intentions and our actions, there’s an abyss, and it’s not until we crossed it that we can see whether or not they are alike. In Snape’s case, considering he genuinely believed the supremacist ideology he upheld would turn the wizarding world better, it doesn’t really matter: he still caused damage.

And he has never been redeemed because for a redemption arc to work properly, you need to

Acknowledge what happened — there’s not much Snape is liable to deny it happened because, of course, he’s always caught on the scenes we are privy to.

Take accountability for what you’ve done — which Snape doesn’t do, as it’s exemplified perfectly many times throughout The Prince’s Tale in Deathly Hollows. He deflects, he lies, he declares he had no intentions of doing what he did, but he never, not once, takes accountability for what he has done and what ended up hurting other people:

“There was a crack. A branch over Petunia’s head had fallen. Lily screamed. The branch caught Petunia on the shoulder, and she staggered backward and burst into tears.

“Tuney!” But Petunia was running away. Lily rounded on Snape. “Did you make that happen?” “No.” He looked both defiant and scared. “You did!” She was backing away from him. “You did! You hurt her!” “No – no, I didn’t!” But the lie did not convince Lily.”

““…thought we were supposed to be friends?” Snape was saying, “Best friends?” “We are, Sev, but I don’t like some of the people you’re hanging round with! I’m sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber! What do you see in him, Sev, he’s creepy! D’you know what he tried to do to Mary Macdonald the other day?” Lily had reached a pillar and leaned against it, looking up into the thin, sallow face. “That was nothing,” said Snape. “It was a laugh, that’s all –” “It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny –” “What about the stuff Potter and his mates get up to?” demanded Snape.”

“It was nighttime. Lily, who was wearing a dressing gown, stood with her arms folded in front of the portrait of the Fat Lady, at the entrance to Gryffindor Tower. “I only came out because Mary told me you were threatening to sleep here.” “I was. I would have done. I never meant to call you Mudblood, it just –” “Slipped out?” There was no pity in Lily’s voice.”

To make amends for what you did — I’m not even going to deepen my argument on this one, it’s clear he didn’t. Not when he hurt Petunia, not when he hurt Lily, not when he hurt anyone really, the only exception being him protection Harry after telling Voldemort about the prophecy, but that’s not overcoming any patterns here, which brings me to my next point:

To accept the boundaries that you put in place as they’re on the path to earn forgiveness — which Snape also doesn’t, as exemplified in this excerpt of The Prince’s Tale:

The scene changed… “I���m sorry.” “I’m not interested.” “I’m sorry!” “Save your breath” It was nighttime. Lily, who was wearing a dressing gown, stood with her arms folded in front of the portrait of the Fat Lady, at the entrance to Gryffindor Tower. “I only came out because Mary told me you were threatening to sleep here.” “I was. I would have done. I never meant to call you Mudblood, it just –”

It’s very important to understand here that Snape doesn’t respect Lily’s boundaries of not wanting to talk to him after he called her a slur, which is also a sign of not being in a path to earn forgiveness. And forgiveness must be earned: no amount of trauma explaining our actions actually counts as an excuse for our behavior. It can explain it and thus, making forgiveness easier to achieve, but trauma doesn’t change the fact that we are responsible for our own choices and acts throughout our lives, and if we hurt someone, we have a responsibility to be accountable and make amends.

So okay, we’ve stablished that Snape has some heavy trauma to work through but that doesn’t mean he’s not liable for his own actions. Now, what we need to understand is his relationship with the Marauders. That’s a much more complicated theme, which will bring me back to Rowling and her point of view of things and how they impact her narrative and the way things are portrayed in the books.

The first thing we need to notice is that Rowling doesn’t seem much preoccupied with portraying bullying in a responsible way throughout the series. It’s clear that many of the comedic reliefs we have — especially in the form of Fred and George — are bullies in the modern, more “strict” way of seeing children’s behavior: their acts not only can be considered humiliating for some (such as Neville and other side characters in the books) but also downright cruel or dangerous. So it’s clear by her account on other similar relationships portrayed in the books that Rowling didn’t consider what Snape and the Marauders had as a bully/victim relationship.

That can be because of her age, or because of the character’s age even (they were in the 90s after all), or even a mix of both reasons, but the fact remains that she didn’t view it as bullying, so anything she writes about it will be a gross exaggeration of what she considers child rivalry. It’s one of the reasons I have the icks when anyone starts asking her for a book on the Marauders because I just know she’d butcher her way into their stories, to be completely honest.

Unfortunately, this also means it’s how Snape views it all — as something that happens between children (not saying that it didn’t cause trauma, just that he doesn’t see it as a trauma) which makes him even back up the people who do the same when he becomes a teacher, such as Malfoy and his friends. My point is that, in the building of Snape’s character, his problem with what the Marauders used to do to him wasn’t what they did but rather that they did it with him, someone Snape viewed as undeserving of it, as opposed to when someone who did deserve — such as muggleborns — were the target of said treatment:

“We are, Sev, but I don’t like some of the people you’re hanging round with! I’m sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber! What do you see in him, Sev, he’s creepy! D’you know what he tried to do to Mary Macdonald the other day?” Lily had reached a pillar and leaned against it, looking up into the thin, sallow face. “That was nothing,” said Snape. “It was a laugh, that’s all –” “It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny –”

So the problem in the end wasn’t the Marauder’s behavior but their target — which, of course, was him.

But the origin of the Marauder’s dislike for Snape at that point ran deep and very intricately: there was a lot of reason why we could attribute to their hatred for each other, such as house rivalry, Snape’s fixation on Remus’ secret, James’ jealousy for Lily and Snape’s friendship, Snape’s inclination for dark magic and supremacist views, Sirius overcompensation for being raised in such a prejudiced environment and as such becoming a little too aggressive about it, and many other reasons. The point is, there was a meddle of everything by the time we reach SWM.

So their relationship is just as intricate and difficult to entangle. I’m not saying here that any of my analysis exempts the Marauders from what they did — it was serious and bad and something that shouldn’t have happened at all regardless of how I feel about Snape. But as I try to analyze Snape’s character in the books, I need to be very careful on how to approach this: my morals and interpretations of what happened shouldn’t come first to what Snape’s viewed at the moment and what he took from this. So at last, what I’m saying is: as much as I know that was some hard bullying going on there, Snape didn’t see it that way, either because Rowling herself couldn’t see it that way and because the time and the time’s belief’s system wouldn’t allow him to.

Anyway, if we take any only the facts, we have — James attacked Snape sometime after Snape tried to catch Remus in the Shrieking Shack, Snape also instigated fights with James, Snape and his friends also bullied muggleborns and blood traitor — it becomes very clear that we need to balance power relations very carefully here:

On the very top, we have supremacist purebloods, which are the most privileged social group at the time, which would include people like Lucius, Bellatrix, the Lestrange brothers, most of the Blacks, and others. Then, right below, we’d have purebloods who didn’t believe in blood purity, such as Sirius, the Potters (James specially), the Weasleys, the Prewetts, the Longbottoms and others. Plus, the more I consider the wizarding world of that time, the more I realize how close halfbloods who adhered to the purist cause had a place in society that rivaled the same importance with purebloods who were considered blood traitors, sometimes ranking even higher depending on the environment or situation.

Just to be entirely clear: when I say halfbloods, I’m not only talking about those whose heritage are certain (children of muggleborns or muggles with purebloods) but also to those whose heritage couldn’t be drawn back. For example, the Sacred Twenty-Eight, the account of all pureblooded families in Great Britain, is admittedly an incomplete and slightly biased and unreliable source. They didn’t list the Potters as purebloods, for example, solely on the account of, whilst the family didn’t have any muggle relatives, there were enough muggles with the last name Potter that they weren’t sure about the family’s heritage. So it’s fair to assume a lot of people we’d been presented to as halfbloods could be pureblood familys whose heritage was slightly questioned. So yes, I’d put halfbloods who stood with blood supremacy as just as privileged as a pureblood who sided against it because of all this background. Then, we have halfbloods who didn’t approve of pureblood supremacy, muggleborns, then muggles.

It’s quite understandable by the books that, while in SWM, Snape was in a clear place of power imbalance in relation to the Marauders, the truth wasn’t always this. Mulciber and Avery are quoted as the closest to Snape (and we know very well what they’ve become after school), and although I found nothing in regards to the Mulciber family, the Averys were purebloods, so I have to place Snape as being just as privileged as the Marauders within normal (normal, not exceptional) school social dynamics in relation to blood. Of course that wasn’t truth to every power dynamic presented within the Harry Potter world, such as the Slytherin conundrum for example.

Okay, I’ll be honest with you guys here: I feel like the imbalance people accuse the adults of Harry Potter of having is grossly exaggerated sometimes. Yes, Slytherin was in disadvantage in relation to other houses, and it was looked upon by them, but the point is: ancient pureblooded families, especially the ones who were knee deep in supremacist ideology, often favored Slytherin, that is a fact.

Regardless of it been productive or not, the most blood supremacists within the house, the more we’d get comments and actions against muggleborns within school grounds that would inevitably be punished by the taking of points (and by the way, Snape was not helping congratulating Draco for his own bigotry instead of rewarding Slytherins who were actually interested in studying and working hard on their grades).

Plus, Gryffindor is the house of the protagonist — of course it’ll gain some privileges for that. If it was Ravenclawn, we’d be discussing this issue with Slytherin versus Ravenclawn points. It makes no sense accusing other of having biases like that because it’s obvious we’d have this kind of biases exactly for the plain reason it’s the protagonist’s house.

Anyway, I digress: because of the points I just made about it, the Slytherin versus Gryffindor rivalry is not enough to grant James and the others such a significative upper hand on their privilege in relation to Snape, although I would argue that Snape’s pre-existing bigotry did him no favors in the adults’ eyes on that matter, so it may have.

Now, why am I focusing on that? Because it’s clear to me that, while James and the others had a clear upper hand on their treatment of Snape in Snape’s Worst Memory, it’s not so clear as people seem to believe what the picture looked like the rest of the time. And of course, I do understand that it seems very much cemented on everyone’s minds that the configuration of the Marauders and Snape relationship was always the one we see in Snape’s Worst Memory, but that’s not completely truth and there are hints of it since the fifth book:

When Sirius said James wasn’t the only one to initiate fights, when he said Snape was always trying to sneak up on James, when we learn of the spells Snape had invented as a teenager (we can half-confidently say they were for the Marauders considering Snape’s trying to use Sectumsempra on James, but not limited to them, of course), when we get to know that Snape was “always trying” to prove that Remus was a werewolf to get him expelled, among other moments.  The truth is, as much as I would like to point out the Marauders were not so bad, I can’t say this with certainty, but Snape apologists can’t say for certain they know fully the dynamics of their relationship either because even when the Marauders weren’t good people, they can’t say Snape was only a victim as well.

Or at least, they can’t say that he was the kind of victim who didn’t victimized people just like he was victimized too. And that’s probably even more reason why I dislike him, but I’ll get there. What I do know is that Snape, for his supremacist views alone, was doing a lot worse than what the Marauders were doing as teens. I’m sorry, it’s true: as much as I despise bullying, I can’t get over the fact that Snape was the equivalent of a Hitler youth child soldier in the wizarding world when he was a teenager. I’d punch him myself if I was his classmate, to be honest. Hatred aside, however, I do understand that what the Marauders did had little to nothing to do with supremacist views and all to do with being idiots, so yeah, fuck them. I’m not here to defend the Marauders anyway, just to condemn Snape (which, surprise, surprise, it’s actually possible).

Now, I dread having to go there, to be honest, but I want to talk to you guys about Snapes’ feelings for Lily. I’ve read the most grotesque and misogynistic things I’ve ever read in my life scrolling through Snape stans posts and let’s be honest here: Lily and Snape’s relationship was so toxic I would come back healthier if I went to Chernobyl than going anywhere near them together — because of Severus — and it’s actually appalling that some people doesn’t seem to think so. I’m sorry, but all the signs of classical emotional abuse signs are right there, just in the Prince’s Tale:

Belittling and constant criticism — I’m sorry, but his behavior alone says everything: you can’t treat muggleborns like they’re trash and then try to convince your muggleborn best-friend they she’s not. The belittling is in his actions. And then there’s the fact that Snape brings up accusations of Lily liking James more than once as a form of criticism as well (because neither have a good opinion of James, which is fair, but it’s still veiled criticism of Lily). Plus, his belittling of Lily’s feeling over Petunia’s hatred of her is obvious:

“I don’t want to talk to you,” she said in a constricted voice. “Why not?” “Tuney h-hates me. Because we saw that letter from Dumbledore.” “So what?” She threw him a look of deep dislike. “So she’s my sister!” “She’s only a – ” He caught himself quickly; Lily, too busy trying to wipe her eyes without being noticed, did not hear him.”

Gaslighting and controlling tendencies — when he tries to convince Lily he didn’t use magic to hurt Petunia with the tree branch, or when he questions their friendship because she’s trying to make a constructive critic of his life choices (“I thought we’re supposed to be friends?... Best friends?”), or when he tries to dictate who she’ll be friends with (when they’re discussing his own friends by the way). Even if Lily doesn’t let him, doesn’t mean it’s not abusive.

Isolation of loved ones — Constantly belittling Petunia, setting Lily and himself as above her because of their magic, convincing Lily to invade Petunia’s privacy thus isolating her further, causing rifts between Lily’s friends in Gryffindor and her because of his supremacist tendencies…

Jealousy and Possessiveness — I do think this one is self-explanatory.

Humiliation and Shaming — I also believe this one is also self-explanatory.

Unpredictable or Inconsistent Behavior — This is perfectly exemplified by their conversation when Lily is pointing out about his friends’ bad influence on him. We can see perfectly how inconsistent Snape’s behavior is, jumping from deflecting his accountability, downplaying his own bad deeds, to possessiveness and jealousy over absolutely nothing Lily has ever referenced to (try not to read what they’re saying but instead just concentrate at how abruptly Snape goes from one to the other):

“…thought we were supposed to be friends?” Snape was saying, “Best friends?” “We are, Sev, but I don’t like some of the people you’re hanging round with! I’m sorry, but I detest Avery and Mulciber! Mulciber! What do you see in him, Sev, ’s creepy! D’you know what he tried to do to Mary Macdonald the other day?” Lily had reached a pillar and leaned against it, looking up into the thin, sallow face. “That was nothing,” said Snape. “It was a laugh, that’s all – ” “It was Dark Magic, and if you think that’s funny – ” “What about the stuff Potter and his mates get up to?” demanded Snape. His color rose again as he said it, unable, it seemed, to hold in his resentment. “What’s Potter got to do with anything?” said Lily. “They sneak out at night. There’s something weird about that Lupin. Where does he keep going?” “He’s ill,” said Lily. “They say he’s ill – ” “Every month at the full moon?” said Snape. “I know your theory,” said Lily, and she sounded cold. “Why are you so obsessed with them anyway? Why do you care what they’re doing at night?” “I’m just trying to show you they’re not as wonderful as everyone seems to think they are.” The intensity of his gaze made her blush. “They don’t use Dark Magic, though.” She dropped her voice. “And you’re being really ungrateful. I heard what happened the other night. You went sneaking down that tunnel by the Whomping Willow, and James Potter saved you from whatever’s down there – ” Snape’s whole face contorted and he spluttered, “Saved? Saved? You think he was playing the hero? He was saving his neck and his friends’ too! You’re not going to – I won’t let you – ” “Let me? Let me?” Lily’s bright green eyes were slits. Snape backtracked at once. “I didn’t m ean – I just don’t want to see you made a fool of – He fancies you, James Potter fancies you!” The words seemed wrenched from him against his will. “And he’s not…everyone thinks…big Quidditch hero – ” Snape’s bitterness and dislike were rendering him incoherent, and Lily’s eyebrows were traveling farther and farther up her forehead. “I know James Potter’s an arrogant toerag,” she said, cutting across Snape. “I don’t need you to tell me that. But Mulciber’s and Avery’s idea of humor is just evil. Evil, Sev. I don’t understand how you can be friends with them.” Harry doubted that Snape had even heard her strictures on Mulciber and Avery. The moment she had insulted James Potter, his whole body had relaxed, and as they walked away there was a new spring in Snape’s step…

There’s also the fact that their friendship began in a relation of power that met its inevitable demise once those specific conditions tumbled down: when Snape met Lily, he was all the source she had about the wizarding world, he was her only link to that part of herself she felt was so different from anyone else. Once Lily arrived at Hogwarts, this dependance quickly came to an end with Lily spreading her wings, which probably also took a heavy tool on their relationship because its foundation was already fragile to begin with.

However, I’m not saying here that Snape was this evil mastermind at nine years old he managed to consciously ensnare Lily into this emotionally abusive relationship all by his astute manipulation. Snape was a child of abuse and neglect and, as such, he never learned how to properly bond and stablish healthy relationships. Much like the child starved by love he was, Snape probably saw every and any other relationship Lily had as a threat to their own relationship, because he doesn’t know love is not finite — he doesn’t know love stretches to accommodate other people with the time. It’s not unreasonable for me to read their relationship as such, although I’m sure that wasn’t JK Rowling’s intentions when she wrote HP, in fact it’s more than possible to admit their friendship sucked even when Snape remembered it so fondly.

As a person who actually went through an emotionally abusive relationship, I can tell how exhausting it is to carry this person along and make up excuses for everyone around you who can clearly see that this friendship sucks but doesn’t want to tell you because it might make things worse. Specially if I’m talking about someone who believes the way you were born makes you inferior in some way, that shit really hurts even when they say you’re different because deep down, you know you’re not. Deep down, you know that you’re the exception over some crooked perception you somehow beat the odds of an inferior condition and that’s what makes you “special”. And it’s gross just to think about it.

Okay, so now I think I analyzed everything about Snape I’ve wanted to analyze, so I’ll end here my enormous rant about him and if there’s anything else I want to talk about when this starts to get hate, I’ll probably post a part two.

Bye, guys!

[expectopatronum18]

3 guesses who this is about 😒😒

I really despise Snape, but he's one of the most interesting and complex characters of the Harry Potter series, he's been written soo beautifully.

Yet Snape fans defend EVERY SINGLE flaw of his and try to present him as this snowflake victim stripping him of any accountability for his mistakes, it's so fucking annoying

[runesp00r]

I’m a massive fan of carving out stories that make sure nobody is good and nobody is bad. The discourse around the Marauders v. Snape is a new favorite of mine because everyone gets so heated on the idea of who is right and wrong.

In the real world and here… everyone believes they’re right as they spew hate. When Snape insulted Lily, it came from the bottom of his heart, the worst thing he could say to her in that moment to hurt her like she was hurting him… and for that moment he believed he deserved to say it. She deserved to hurt.

James (and the Marauders) are much the same, albeit over a longer scale. And it’s not to say Snape never retaliated over the years, right? From the get-go, they’d been at each other’s throats. It makes no sense that Snape would just become a perpetual sniveling victim all of a sudden. He tries to out Remus — who is apparently the nicest of the Marauders, though I’m not sure how much that’s saying — as a werewolf, mistreats Lily, the only person who tolerates him, and is so determined to vent his rage that he takes it out on generations of Gryffindors.

Their hatred of one another and how it was executed is indicative of how the Wizarding World works, as well as common lines of thought for House rivalries (the alleged core of the issue between Snape and Potter). It’s also a demonstration of the cruelty of teenage boys, the consequences of tribalism, and the pervasiveness of racism, when regarding Snape and Lily.

They don’t believe they’re doing wrong! The Marauders think they’re trolling this whiny, racist brat of a kid who thinks it’s cool to be in the Hogwarts House that produces more whiny, racist brats. Maybe they bash him because he wears women’s clothes (handed down from his mother) in a time where cross-dressing is commonly seen as disgraceful. [This is what I mean when I say writers and fans have to acknowledge the impressions of the time. And even then, classism was high, if you’re at a prestigious school like Hogwarts.] Their animosity is only exacerbated because they surround themselves with people who share their beliefs. Are they wrong to do this? Yeah. Is this a reflection of every identity conflict in the course of human history? Yeah.

I’ve seen posts saying how they bullied Snape was a form of abuse. How Snape treated Harry, who holds zero sins from his father because he doesn’t even remember him, was a form of abuse as well. Snape justified it because of what James did, an opportunity for retribution that he never got because James took the love of his life and then died with her. He thinks he deserved to do this, too. The claim is the Marauders got to mature because that’s the privilege of the abuser; but Snape also got the chance to mature because that’s the privilege of someone who stayed alive and ended up better off than everyone who spited him. He chose not to. He chose to hold onto his desire for revenge, and while it’s not totally ridiculous, it does make him just as bad.

The Marauders attacked Snape based on their prejudices as impressionable teenagers. Snape attacked Harry based on his prejudices as a full-grown, well-educated adult. You see where I’m going here? They were both problems. The Marauders’ actions spurred Snape into a state of permanent bitterness and resentment, but Snape had time to get himself out and he didn’t. Nobody was forcing him to carry out generational revenge other than Snape himself. He was a victim who became a perpetrator. This is also incredibly prevalent in our modern world.

They’re both right. They’re both wrong. They’re quite cyclical and quite mean and still… quite human.

[mistress-riddle]

my toxic trait is i’m a marauders apologist. like i really don’t care that they were “bullies” i’m sorry but their main targets were quite literally budding death eaters, why are some people acting like they went around killing people for fun??

[rubusart]

I think this is the perfect art to start with. Quite accurately describes the mess that will be happening here.

Tag yourself😃

Reference:

[ashboilol]

Why do so many people use James maturing to defend him?

Alright, I get that he matured. But just because a bully stops bullying others, does not mean they suddenly become a nice person. Maturing is the minimum a bully can do. It is enough to say they are self-aware, but not enough to call them nice.

Did James apologize to his victims? As a former Marauders stan, I actually used to think that James bullying Snape was justified, and the height of cool. I too became like him for one absolutely cringeworthy year. And like James, I matured. But the thing is, I actually made an effort to mend things with my victims. James never did that, not with Severus, not with Bertram Aubrey, not with ANY of the thousands of kids he hexed for fun. Hell, I know he could not have apologized to all the kids he bullied, but he could have made a speech in apology.

Another thing people use to defend James is that he joined the Order of the Phoenix. That is because he was raised in a cult that worshipped the Light, which also gave a damn about him. He is basically Draco Malfoy but raised in the Light, while Snape is a Harry Potter who was indoctrinated towards the Dark. Both ultimately did the right thing, but like Draco and Harry, Snape was braver than James.

[i-love-your-shades-of-wrong]

lmao I I’m confused... uh wtf why do some people dislike lily? Like... is it your supposed love for Snape? reblog or whatever and I really want answers, what’s so awful about her?

[wee-chlo]

Friendly Reminder that Book Snape is a greasy freak who canonically doesn't brush his teeth: his teeth are described as yellow multiple times over the course of the books. He's not sexy or hot or even handsome. He's just a nasty, gross guy. The person who cast Alan Rickman for Snape did him a bigger solid than Dumbledore.

[darkcrowprincess]

I'm a fan of both. Harry deserves all the love and family he can get.

[readwithlivvy]

here's a reminder that there was no reason for severus snape to bully children who he had power over ☺️

[expectopatronum18]

Snape fans: ughhh fans of the marauders defend their bullying and play down their negative traits so much 😤😤🤬

Also Snape fans: sNaPe hAd tO BuLlY kIdS tO rEtAiN hIs pLaCe aS a sPy, pLuS iT wAsn'T eVeN tHaT bAd ashbggnncfkngf

Lyk babe wtf, do u hear urself? Don't u recognise the hypocrisy??

[thistuesdaynight]

well tbh to james and sirius, snapes memories are biased soooo technically they aren’t 100% but i don’t doubt that they weren’t little pricks

I- listen. I have not read the books so idk if pensieve memories are canonically biased, but even if they are, James and Sirius were OBJECTIVELY pieces of shit in that scene.

Not just to snape but to Remus and Pete too.

Sirius literally says: "I'm bored... Wish it was full moon."

LIKE HUH???

Your bestie goes through hell every month and you say THAT?

Not to mention, SWM happens AFTER The Prank !!!

Like y'all didn't learn and grow from that experience at all??? 😭