#precrisis!jason

[crisis-on-infinite-batblogs]

Detective Comics #530

I bring you this gift of little ginger Jason with his little rucksack on his back, running away from the new home he won’t allow himself to want, and leaving behind all the love he cannot see🥺

[aalghul]

Seeing people say that fans are confusing “happy, cheerful” pre-crisis Jason for “angry, violent” post-crisis Jason is really funny (annoying) because

a) Jason’s personality honestly barely changed. Pre-crisis Jason is not nearly as different as so many people have collectively decided he is from post-crisis Jason. Most of that “Jason got himself into Situations because he wanted to prove himself” jazz is actually pre-crisis (and it’s not poorly written there).

b) What people might be trying to make a point about could be his competence as Robin, which actually (in my opinion) was higher post-crisis. Pre-crisis Jason was a great Robin too! But post-crisis messed up a lot less (pre-Starlin. which is really funny because Starlin added flavour to Jason being nearly perfect and now that gets taken as the sole truth for Jason’s Robin).

What I’m trying to say is that you can choose to ignore everything about pre-crisis Jason (and I wouldn’t because if his time with the Titans + Eddie is canon, then what’s stopping the other non post-crisis conflicting stories from being canon, logically?) but you should know what it is exactly you’re tossing it out entirely in favour of. And it’s not what people seem to think post-crisis Jason was.

[daisybell-on-a-carousel]

We should talk more about the fact Jason got swarmed and attacked by a mob as Robin, like??? Hello. He had to be left there because the mob was too violent with Batman near. He had to be taken to the hospital.

Look at those injuries!!

The next time we see him he's forcing himself out of bed and putting on the Robin costume thinking "I've gotta do what I can to help, even if it kills me!"

The next next time we see him he has walked into yet another violent mob

I cannot stop thinking about this story and the effects it probably had on him honestly. Do you think it's made him nervous in crowds, do you think it made him trust others just that bit less. How long do you think he was being attacked before he was found, the scene had cleared. "I've gotta do what I can to help, even if it kills me!",,,,

Just the concept itself! I don't know about you guys but being attacked and grabbed and trampled into unconsciousness sounds absolutely terrifying! Did he black out, still getting hit, thinking he was going to die? Knowing he couldn't defend himself as his injuries to took their toll? At their complete mercy?

1986-87 Legends, issue #2 (the attack), #3 (the hospital), #5 (getting up), #6 (defending heros from another forming mob)

2010 DC Universe: Legacies, issue #6 (flashback panel to Legends moment)

[s-darling-art]

‘Always Forever’ by Cults playing in the distance

[fancyhandsbakery]

Reminder that Jason's parents were originally kidnapped, killed, and thrown into a crocodile pit by Killer Croc. His parents' original names were Joseph and Trina Todd. They were helping Batman, Robin, and Batgirl investigate Killer Croc, who was threatening their circus.

I wish people would write more things with his original backstory. It's so interesting. And it really shows where Jason's sense of justice and responsibility comes from, his parents.

[freddyloyd]

Kirk kidnapping Jay just to infodump about bats the whole time is very funny to me

[fastestmanalive333]

Earth-1987 Files: Jason "Jay" Todd

Alias: Robin, Red Hood,

Age: 18

Hair Color: Blonde

Eye Color: green

Born to Joseph and Trina Todd

Jason Todd and His parents grew up in the poverty of Gotham.. they did what they could to survive yet stuck together... one day they took their young son to see the flying graysons... where they also met with the drakes another family.. where they withessed their deaths.. as time got passed they were still financially struggling doing their best to raise their young son.. they ran a resteraunt below their apartment.. until the day they lost it... they hid that knowledge from jason... seemingly lost.. joseph and Trina inspired off the flying graysons along with their son decided to join an amateur circus, with little money, they called themselves the flying todds.. , they would tour around show off their skills they made money, finally they had a meal on their table to eat, they were happy... a year passed.. they called up the former orphan and member of the flying graysons dick grayson who decided to come to gotham.. to watch them play a performance in front of him they talked and dick was amazed he met with them, invited them to the gala of Bruce wayne, Jason was content... Trina walked in on dick, bruce and alfred in costume.. where dick allowed Joe and Trina in on a case.. they decided to aid in on his vigilantism... they left jason to stay with Waldo at wayne manor "mom... will you be back?"

"Before the sun rises dear" she kisses him on the cheek... before leaving off... jason stood there for hours.. on hours.. he was tired of waiting.. he wanted to know if they were ok.. he discovered the clock tower open.. the curious Lad decided to sneak down.. from there he discovered the batcave, from there on he put himself together a suit.. a suit he made on his own..

From there on he snuck into the trunk of the batmobile and he snuck out to aid his parents, batman, Robin and Batgirl... once he got there, he took killer croc down.. he laughed, he kept laughing he looked around his parents weren't there, "where are my parents?" The Lad said to the croc he kept laughing.. he broke down with rage, fury he would have killed him.. until he finally revealed what had happened... they were fed to crocodiles... he would have murdered him he choked killer croc to a half inch of life "YOU KILLED MY MOTHER AND FATHER!!" His eyes widened with rage dick and barbara pulled him back before anything went further.. dick embraced the boy in his arms as he broke out into tears.... he knew how it felt... is this how Bruce felt with him? Jason broke down and hugged dick....

Wayne Manor

Dick spoke to bruce.. " I want to adopt jason i know what hes going through.." jay sat there still in tears.. Waldo sitting next to him for comfort, dick wanted to adopt him.. he came to grow fond of the boy.. but was he ready for that type of responsibility yet..? Bruce put a hand on his shoulder "you forget dick... so do i.." from there on jason walks out with jason.. they talk.. he feels better in a way.. Bruce would go on to adopt him.. something he hadn't done for dick.. they grew together, their bond one of the best.. dick was slightly jealous in a sense.. why did Bruce not adopt him.. nonetheless.. he stuck around with jason, they went to see the play Les Miserables together in Broadway.. jason was big on theater, poetry.... art he took his girlfriend kori along who he loved as well... he even met wonder girl.. his childhood crush... he fanboyed upon meeting her... upon time jason met Nocturna, he dyed his hair... and put on dicks costume.. his first villain.. the joker, the man who would make his life miserable.. he became the next robin... as Dick became nightwing he had decided to give his old costume to jason.. passimg he mantle to him him and batman would go on many adventures.. even getting in the middle of a custody battle with Nocturna.. on top of it all.. he met kid devil, he even for a period joined the teen titans.. that would all end upon him getting a box back from an old friend of his parents he took it back to the manor and inside... he found a birth certificate... s something...? Trina wasn't Jason's real mother? Was he lied too... he traveled everywhere to search for her.. Bruce followed along.. was this foolish? Perhaps but he needed to know... he met Sheila Haywood in Ethiopia.. she dated Joseph for a brief period yet his heart belonged to someone else... he went on to marry his mother... she then led jason to a werehouse.. the joker stood waiting.. she had betrayed him... why? Joker beat jason with a crowbar.. over and over and strapped Sheila to a bomb... before leaving.. jason with an inch of his life had freed his mother and went to the entrance of the warehouse.. it was locked.. as he finally got it open it was to late.... jason todd had died.... Bruce found the body he hugged his body in his arms... breaking down... dick.. having not received the call missed the funeral..... it was his fault in a sense... no matter how much kory needed to ensure him it wasnt.. he gave him his costume... his name was jason todd... a boy from a similar background to dick grayson.... Robin...... and now.... deceased... but not for long...

The league of asssassins go off and dig out Jason's body... talia takes the boy.... she throws the body into the Lazarus pit.... Life

[kiragecko]

I'm trying to read a bunch of early Jason right now.

Read Batman 381, thinking it was the first post-Crisis Jason issue. Delightful Nocturna fun! Jason is a real cutie! At one point he's trying to figure out how he can convince the courts that she's a bad mom so he can go back to Bruce without having to get her arrested for her criminal past. (Which would be hard, because she's actually doing pretty good parenting!)

However, March 1985 is actually the START of Crisis On Infinite Earths, not the end, so I jumped to Batman 394 (April 1986). Which is ALSO written by Doug Moench.

It's a dated and racist Red Scare comic. Jason's okay. The different artstyle makes him much less cute. (Paul Gulacy instead of Rick Hoberg and Alfredo Alcala.) He's either a little sexist OR racist, but it's a comic about Russians (and nuclear threats) in the 80s, so that's to be expected.

But then I read the next issue, this time with art by Tom Mandrake. Jason is cuter, but ... has the writer started disliking him in the past year? We see a photo of his acrobat parents, because his reboot origin isn't coming for another year, but this is the second issue in a row of him being petulant and mean-spirited. He makes fatphobic remarks to Bullock! This is an issue about Robin being annoyed and jealous that his dad is paying attention to Catwoman instead of him. I LOVE that plot! But all the fun is sucked out of it, AND I'm a bit worried he has a point.

In the pre-Crisis story, Bruce is separated from Jason for most of the plot, but thinks about him constantly, and talks to him when they meet-up. Here, Bruce actually IS only thinking about making out with Selina, disappears for days without checking in, and mostly ignores Jason when they do meet-up.

-

I can see why audiences would turn on this Jason. He's subtly unlikeable, and seems to subtly be getting in the way of the stories the writer wants to tell. Moench is writing James Bond action, with the beautiful ladies and the romantic trysts, and Jason doesn't fit.

There are enough writers on this period of Batman that I'm going to check them out and see if it gets better. Max Allan Collins' new origin for Jason has some nasty classicism and ALSO doesn't seem to really like Jason, though it's more "Jason is violent" instead of "Jason is mean". But maybe Barbara Randall or Jo Duffy's single issues will be more fun? Starlin KILLS Jason, but I remember liking how he wrote the kid?

If all else fails, maybe I'll go read Detective Comics and pretend that they're post-Crisis, even though they supposedly ignore the reboot entirely.

[dickheadcanons]

This is just a little thing, but I just can't get behind characterizations of Jason that talk about him thinking that "Robin makes me magic" was proof that he was like, this sweet little kid.

For one thing, the Jason Todd who says that is pre-crisis. The Jason Todd who says that was being written as Dick, just a little more reckless and inexperienced. For another, Jason said that for exactly the same reason all Robins say shit; to justify disobeying Bruce lol.

The line isn't the cute wish-fulfillment of a poor kid from the Narrows. It's evidence of a circus acrobat's belief in his own invincibility, offered as proof that he is tougher than Bruce thinks he is.

The pages in question, from Batman #385:

[redd-nocturne]

nocturna character of all time (ft a giggly jason. he def giggle snorts btw)

[bamboozled-distress]

the fact that dick had felt SO much guilt about Jason’s parents dying that he genuinely wanted to adopt him and felt like it was all his fault and seeing so much of himself in Jason and admiring him from afar and treating him delicately in a way because he was treating him in a way that he’d treat a younger version of himself if he had ever gotten the chance and then Bruce told Jason they had to have a little chat and he just had a knowing look on his face as he told Alfred that he’d have to probably open up his old room GOD pre-crisis did not have to rip my heart out into pieces like this

[gece-misin-nesin]

hey! i have a few questions as someone who hasn't really read the comics but what exactly is the pit? and also i don't think there's a clear number but how long after jason died did tim become robin/how long after jason died did he come back to life?

i just wanted to ask you since you seem very well-versed in jason's comics and i wanted to get into them! but if you don't have the answers, no biggie! thanks anyways <3

Tbh I'm not very well versed in comics myself, so I advise you to do your own research as well but basically:

1)The Lazarus Pit. This is the one I know the least about because it was introduced alongside Ra's al Ghul in 1972. It has had A LOT of changes to it like how sometimes it's alchemic(?) creation and how sometimes it is natural, sometimes it can bring back the dead, sometimes it cannot, sometimes it is green and sometimes(in lost days for example, the comic where we see jason's returen to life) it's orange/goldish. In lost days, it does NOT bring jason back from the dead, because he has already come back by that point, but he has brain damage and is catatonic. Ra's grows impatient w Jason's lack of progress and wants to "get rid of him" and Talia sees no choice besides throwing Jason into the pit to heal his injuries. And the rest is history. Note that a concept of "pit madness" is not present in utrh nor in lost days. I think it is brought up in a later post-crisis comic(btfc maybe?) but don't quote me on that.

2)Lost days places Jason's resurrection(him digging out of his grave) at 6 months after his death. I don't know when Tim becomes robin, you should look at "A Lonely Place of Dying" for that but I think it was around the same time as Jason's resurrection, maybe a bit later.

Thanks for the ask!!

[aalghul]

a fundamental flaw of the concept of someone trying to convince jason that batman needs a robin is that jason already knows this. jason has said it himself as robin.

[daisybell-on-a-carousel]

Fanfic idea: Nocturna, after disappearing during the crisis, wakes up to find herself in the current universe, where she spots the Red Hood, and can't help but compare him to the blood night sky she last saw, and oddly, the young Robin whom she had tried to adopt

[bisupergirl]

"kara should actually be friends with x batfam member!" "no she should be teaming up with y batfam member!" you do not actually care about kara!! you do not care about her history or the characters that she's legitimately friends with!! she is a fully fleshed out character that deserves more than to be relegated to an accessory for whoever's the batfam character of the week!!

[fancyhandsbakery]

Like father (and mother), like son

Detective Comics #540 and Detective Comics #526