#of misogyny and anti-transmascness

[lockandkeyhyena]

Been trying to word this another way for a while I sent a prev ask so if you’ve already figured it out I’m sooo sorryyy

Trans men experience transphobia unique to trans men but do not experience trans misandry because cis misandry isn't real ❌

So trans woman experience transphobia unique to trans woman and do experience transmisogyny be cis misogyny is real ✅

my take is basically yes trans men obviously experience a unique form of oppression because of their intersection of identities and having a word for that would be useful BUT maybe something that refers it back to misogyny which is ultimately the root cause.

but transmisogyny is already taken so like. idk. transmisogyny 2 electric boogaloo but with boys this time??? idk. just not a name that implies systematic misandry exists lol

[magnetothemagnificent]

Being a trans man is fun because your entire life no one ever takes your feelings seriously and instead chalks you up as being hormonal and hysterical. If you're perceived as female, then any time you show any extreme emotion, you're brushed aside and asked if you're on your period. And then once you start testosterone, any time you show any extreme emotion you're not taken seriously and you're reactions are chalked down to the "poison" you're taking. You're never treated as a person with agency and the ability to express yourself on your own.

[bi-sapphics]

so, assuming we all know about how biphobes like to say bi women who date other women try to make them more like men since what they really want is a boyfriend, as well as how transphobes like to infantilize trans men in order to argue against their existence, i'm reluctantly here to tell you that TERFs have taken a new step with integrating these sentiments on twitter today:

link for context

that's right, you read correctly! the ones who are now pressuring our young girls (usually GNC lesbians) into mutilating their bodies are none other than... bi women! because that totally makes sense!

anyway, bi women & trans men need to stick together more than ever. 🤝 the rest of the queer community hates us both endlessly and we have a lot of overlap in that our issues aren't taken seriously enough. as a transmasc bisexual myself, this is the only true way.

[thebutchtheory]

the more i read about transandrophobia as a concept from 'transandrophobia truthers', the more i just end up feeling like these specific experiences are better explained under things like 'gender essentialism' or 'oppositional sexism', or that at the very least these terms need to be brought into discussion of transandrophobia more, but they aren't.

a lot of transandrobros end up coming off like MRAs because they're trying to describe experiences that they don't have proper wording for, and then go on to speak in ways that clearly shows they haven't unlearned [internalized] misogyny/toxic masculinity, gender essentialism and oppositional sexism themselves. often because they haven't read any theory on the subject, and because a lot of them outright refuse to read up on transfeminist theory or understand transmisogyny as a systemic force outside of 'misogyny that trans women experience' or 'transphobia that trans women experience'. then they go on to try and talk over trans women about transmisogyny, or speak about trans women discussing transmisogyny in some extremely bigoted ways because of it.

like, the amount of trans women discussing transmisogyny who have read or even written entire books about transmisogyny, transfeminism and feminism in general seems to be astronomical compared to the amount of trans men discussing transandrophobia that i KEEP seeing. i've seen trans men who have read theory, but they seem to be the bigger popular bloggers that others base their opinions off of, if that makes sense. as if other people in the community are trying to theorize on what people who have actually read theory are saying, without reading any theory themselves.

so much of what transmascs experience is related to misogyny, but it's also related to gender essentialism, oppositional sexism, and toxic masculinity--all things which the trans community has taken from cisgender heterosexual society and applied it to themselves in a way that is Queer Inclusive This Time, yet they never question it.

i'm BEGGING transandrophobia truthers to read books about trans oppression, and to bring this language into your vocabulary when discussing your experiences. when i started doing that with my experiences as a butch on T, it gave me a new perspective on all of it, and the queer community itself.

[oreocookiecrumble]

I think more people need to acknowledge how transmascs being told to shut up about our oppression mirrors the stereotyping we go through as submissive individuals, which mirrors the misogyny cis women face. Does "shut up and look pretty" ring a bell to anyone?

The queer community as a whole has never seen us as real men, we're cis men's "better" counterpart because we're submissive, we're weak, we're fragile. We're all the things misogyny says women are, because they still see us as womanly. I'm so often forced into a submissive role because of my existence as a trans man, even within the queer community. I'm forced into these roles that have been historically stereotyped as women's roles because I am still conceptualized as being a woman. And so often I am afraid to stand up for myself within queer spaces because I know once people stop seeing me as a submissive (womanly) trans man I become a problem. Because dominance is associated with manliness. Dominance means I've accepted fully the mantle of being a man and that means I am now scary. I am now a problem. I am now a danger. I cannot be angry, I cannot be hurt, because if a trans man shows anger, he becomes scary. I am no longer the queer standing up against oppression, I am an angry man, which is a monster to be feared.

Now, people seem to believe misogyny is only directed at women. Cis women experience misogyny because they are women. Trans women experience misogyny because they are women. However, people can't accept that trans men face misogyny even as trans men (or cis men experiencing it, as a matter of fact). To other people, once we take the term "man" to refer to ourselves, we've lost our ability to experience misogyny. Because not only are we no longer women, we have renounced womanhood. We are the "Least Woman" (as cis men could discover they're actually trans women!). Which ultimately makes it taboo to say that we're still treated as women, we still experience misogyny, even within queer spaces. If people believe we are the Least Woman, how can we experience misogyny? How can people treat us like women?

And yet... if people don't treat us like women, if we don't act like women, we aren't allowed within their spaces. Queer and non-queer alike.

Anyway, rant over. Have a good one. Sending love and positive vibes to all you queer and non-queer folks out there.

[lycandrophile]

i could honestly write a whole essay on how the internet’s obsession with romanticizing ‘girl dads’ while simultaneously making fun of ‘boy moms’ and gender reveal parties is directly related to a pervasive lack of care for trans men&mascs even among supposedly pro-trans people.

[princessefemmelesbian]

Transandrophobia truthers are so damn racist and white oh my fucking god y'all actually piss me the fuck off every time you tokenize Black and brown men for your stupid as fuck "mra but make it trans-inclusive" ideology created by a creepy guy with a corrective rape fetish(something I'll never let up on for as long as I live, btw). If I ever see another one of y'all say "Black and brown men face discrimination because they're seen as overly masculine and that's why masculinity in men is oppressed in this society" I will literally kill myself. Stop using Black and brown men as brownie points for your bullshit arguments about misandry being real when you don't have the slightest idea how racialized oppression works. White boys are so annoying and dumb istfg.

@punkeropercyjackson @punknicodiangelo @pinkpinkstarlet

[bishopsqueerblog]

I find it very amusing that when transmascs/men dare to open their mouths to talk about our own LIVED EXPERIENCES, there will always be a TRF in the comments throwing a tantrum and calling us hysterical whores who don’t know what we’re talking about liars.

Interesting, no?

[ratmans-notebooks]

the way some of u people talk about afab trans people is just. well. its just plain sexist if im honest

[trannytink]

too lazy to make this an actual well articulated post rn but here are some snippets of a conversation i had tonight

[punkeropercyjackson]

The way Percy Jackson is so accidentally transfem-coded and a big part of it is how she's been abused by every older man in her life dating back all the way to her deadbeat birthdad and hates men and is averse to traditional masculinity as a result which is framed as an essential part of what makes her the best in-universe hero ever but everybody in Pjo fandom insists she actually has crushes on all the dudes she hates because she described them as conventionally attractive and call her stupid and oblivious for 'not realizing it' and say she needs to basically get over herself and embrace men aren't that bad and she's just 'confused'.Dunking you all in a hungry sharks tank

[ihavenomouthandimustmouth]

I see a lot of posts talking about how transmascs can be misogynistic, which is important to talk about, but I rarely see posts talking about how transmascs are affected by misogyny. How the misogyny we experience in our lives can have a lasting effect on our mental health and self-image, even if we transition and pass and become less affected. How much it sucks when you know you’re trans but are still targeted by misogyny, giving you the double punch of the harms of misogyny with bonus dysphoria. How people that see us as women even when they know we’re trans use misogyny as a weapon alongside transphobia to hurt us. And then, how when we talk about the ways misogyny has affected us, we get told that we’re making it up, that we can’t possibly ever be affected by misogyny (even pre transition or knowing we’re trans), that we are only ever the perpetuators of misogyny and never the victims, and that we’re speaking over women when we’re just trying to start our own discussions about our own experiences.

Talking about misogyny within the transmasc community is important and should be encouraged. Still, when I see non-transmascs that only ever talk about transmasculine people in the context of ways we can harm others, and never about the issues we face and the support we need, I have to wonder if they actually care about transmasculine people or just see us as a group of bad people that need to be called out.

[cyberatioum]

Under patriarchy, the category "trans man" does not enjoy a man social status. Because of cissexism, ''trans mahood'' is neither part of manhood (nor womanhood) but it's a kind of third gender affected by misogyny and anti-transmasculinity.

Anyone who tells trans men that trans manhood is socially accepted as a form of manhood is lying, and usually this type of person claims this to then silence trans men/mascs under the pretext that they are (socially) men.

[fatfemmefreaquency]

. probably gonna delete this later

[loveless-arobee]

The transmasc experience of being called a raging misogynist for simply existing ✨

Oh no, a gay transmasc is writing about gay dudes fucking! We must kill it immediately! A gay transmasc making art of transmascs and trans men?! How dare he, we must stop him!!!!

I can be saying something like "damn bears are so hot" and ppl will answer "so you hate fat women?!"

I just… how do you get to that conclusion? I said I wanted to fuck a bear. Never mentioned women (except for bear women, because we respect multigender and genderqueer gays in this house, but that’s not the point.) If you can only treat ppl respectfully if you wanna fuck them I don’t trust you. I don’t have to find a fat woman sexy to treat her as a human being. Do you?

Anyway, every time ppl insult me for being a gay trans man or writing about (trans) gay men, another character of mine will turn into a gay man just for fun, no matter their previous gender or sexuality. He’s gay now, sorry not sorry 🫶

I’m not misogynistic because I write about my own experience, and about the experiences of people similar to me?? Y’all really should learn to differentiate who is your enemy. Because it isn’t transmascs yknow. I’m literally just chilling.

[lycandrophile]

Hating pussy isn't misogyny because not only women have pussy

in theory, misogyny is oppression of women based in hatred of women, and that sounds like it would only affect women. in practice, though, it affects all women as well as many people who aren’t women.

hatred of vaginas is 100% absolutely based in misogyny at its core. in the case of the post this ask was responding to, it’s also transphobic, but that doesn’t erase the misogyny. by saying that it’s not misogynistic, you must be implying one of two things:

that misogynists are conscious of individuals’ identities and would never direct their misogyny at anyone who isn’t a woman, or

that we can only call something misogyny if it never ever affects anyone who isn’t a woman.

in regards to the first, these are transphobes we’re talking about. their whole thing is that they don’t see us as our genders. why would they stop being misogynistic toward us just because we’re not women when they very explicitly believe we’re all just weird, ugly, mentally ill women? don’t give them that kind of credit — they don’t care about how we see ourselves and they never have because they don’t respect us at all.

and in regards to the second, that’s literally an impossible standard. oppression isn’t an exact science, there will always be people affected by a form of oppression that aren’t part of the group it was “supposed to” oppress. if we only call something misogynistic when non-women are never affected by it, misogyny simply would not exist, and i really hope you’re not arguing that that’s the case.

so yes, there are many people with vaginas who are not woman, and yes, hatred of vaginas is still misogyny. oppression is never going to be simple or follow some sort of black-and-white logic that’s easy to understand or be internally consistent because it doesn’t need to be any of those things to do its job.

i understand if it’s uncomfortable to hear these things described as misogyny when you’re one of the people affected who’s not a woman, but let me let you in on a little secret: transphobes and misogynists want you to be uncomfortable. you really can’t expect oppressive systems to be set up in a way that you’re comfortable with because the whole point of them is that they see you as less than human and treat you like shit. i get that it feels bad, but everything about the existence of these systems is inherently going to feel bad. trying to deny the way they work just because you don’t like it is a pointless and frankly ridiculous task — of course you don’t like the way oppression works, it’s fucking oppression!