#ody killing the suitors not just for penelope but also for telemachus

[tending-the-hearth]

listening to "i can't help but wonder" and sobbing profusely over telemachus' hope being that his father will be able to connect with him, that they'll somehow be able to bond despite the years away, telemachus wanting his father to know that even if it's a struggle, he wants to know his father and see how similar they are. telemachus just hoping for a chance, because he knows his father has missed his mother, it's silly to think otherwise, but he believes that there will be a struggle for his father to connect with him.

meanwhile, odysseus literally has not stopped thinking about his son in the twenty years he's been gone. penelope and telemachus have been the only things on his mind, the only people that have gotten him through the war and every single struggle he's gone through. the fact that some of odysseus' first words to his son are "oh my boy, sweetest joy i've known" because despite the fact that the last time he saw his son, the fact that he was just a baby, and even though he's grown, despite the time lost between them, odysseus wants his boy to know that he is his entire world, that he loves him more than anything.

just telemachus being so hesitant and hopeful, and odysseus not even doubting for a second how much he loves his son and wants to hold him in his arms.

[dootznbootz]

Do y'all ever think about how it's possible that Zeus' first verse in Thunder Bringer is about Penelope and his second is about Odysseus?

She's a "Damsel in Distress" (She's cool af, she just needs some help and misses her idiot), the suitors are prideful and hope to do what Zeus is singing about to her. Pressuring her to choose. Her "true nature" is revealed when her trickery with the shroud is found out .

The 2nd Verse about how Zeus is also the God of Justice and punishing them for the crew's crime of slaying the cattle. Odysseus saves himself to see Penelope again, meaning his crew/people will die. They died for touching Helios' cattle. Odysseus also saves himself AND Helps Penelope by killing all the suitors for their crime of flirting with/bothering Penelope and making her cry, while also bullying and eventually planning to kill his son. Many of Ithaca's men are killed for their pride too. Thinking that they're worthy of Penelope when Nobody is. Flirt with the Wife, you get the knife.

Penelope and Odysseus DO take each others' suffering away when they reunite as well. 🥹

[onlymimiwastaken]

Warrior Penelope stuff cause I've been listening to too many EPIC genderbent covers, and I wanted to give my take on it (also cuz I kinda want to draw it one day)

- Ares as Penelope's patron, absolutely! But Ares didn't have a huge cult in Sparta, although he wasn't hated. So my lore take version thing is that ATHENA wanted to be Penelope's patron (she had already an eye on Ody kinda) but Ares saw his chance, got to it first and became attached to Penelope without wanting to admit it, also because she saw the good and useful in him. Athena still watches over Penelope (especially after her and Ares platonically break up, which she finds really stupid) and is the one who does her best to protect Ithaca while she's gone. She's by Ody's side while he misses his wife and is mostly the reason why the Suitors hadn't taken over yet.

- To get Ares to realize his mistake, Athena tricks him into helping Telemachus defeat Antinous in Little Wolf because free bloodshed, only to end up sensitized by Telemachus because holy shit, my friend's son is here almost dying to this ASSHOLE who thinks he's so much stronger than MY friend the queen and even me like who tf does he think he is. Athena makes Ares fucking rational for once. And maybe even Aphrodite, as well, gets some damn sense in his mind like "they love each other like you and I and my girl is doing her best to get home you're going to apologize rn"

- ctimene holds a claymore double her height with no problems

- penelope is more "cold ruthless" than Odysseus, in a way that she's still poised (until the end or when she's really brought to her knees which is disturbing) while doing merciless stuff. She's emotionless a lot more (just on the surface)

- Ares was the one to give Penelope the idea of going to war instead of Odysseus, for obvious reasons. And Pen is really a mastermind among the Greeks ofc

- Ares and Pen fought in their My Goodbye version because she "held back her power while her friends got devoured" "she didn't even fight Polyphemus, didn't even TRY to kill him" "hid behind her wits to get things done". Because when fighting Polyphemus, she knew that if she tried to kill Polyphemus while he was asleep, they'd be stuck in that cave forever (like in the real Odyssey). And knew that fighting while her friends got killed would slow them down and probably get more people dead. And when they ran away, she didn't go back to kill the Cyclops even if she could've because of yes, mercy, but also because she would've awakened all the other Cyclops and sailing away was faster, better. Ares deemed this cowardice. Crazy thing, since one of the most important things to him is courage.

- Ares overstimates Penelope's power. Like, yes, she's exceptional, but still HUMAN. With her limits. He hasn't dealt with a human personally in years so he doesn't understand this, so his expectations are ridiculously high, which ends up breaking Penelope.

- During 600 strike, Penelope can actually breathe underwater and not hold her breath for such a long time and be fine because she's half naiad (yes, they are fresh water nymphs but still). Also this may make her even stronger around water (to a certain degree, she's still very mortal)

- calypso is pansexual

this is already a lot, ill add more when i think about it lol (also if i realize any of these ideas don't make sense)(check reblogs for more)

[anniflamma]

Trigger warning: topic about SA, aka Im gonna rant about the suitors plan

----

So, I’m going to talk about something I actually dislike ALOT in Epic: The Musical. The whole subplot about the suitors wanting to gangrape Penelope. The more I think about it, the more I realize how unnecessary this addition to the story is.

If you removed it, it wouldn’t change the outcomes of the story at all. Odysseus would still kill them. Nothing has ever stopped him before— neither the infant, Polites’ ideology, nor the fact that he willingly led his remaining crew to certain death while always ensuring his own safety above theirs. But somehow, a group of 20-year-olds is the line he can’t cross????? Like, “Oh no, they’re just rude guests, I can’t kill them!🙁” It doesn’t make sense. Odysseus would kill them either way, they don’t need to be wannabe gangrapists to motivate him. It’s entirely in character for him to do so without additional justification.

I understand why Jorge added this to the story, is to raise the stakes. Odysseus has just defeated the personification of ruthlessness itself (Poseidon) by using a fucking jetpack and punching the god really hard. Symbolically, Odysseus has taken the title of “ruthlessness” for himself. So, what can the next threat be that’s stronger and more menacing than Poseidon? Ah yes.... it's the gangrapists /s

For me, it would be more thematically fitting with Odysseus’ ruthless nature to not have a justifiable "motivation" to kill the suitors. Imagine instead if they were portrayed as having the same youthful energy as Telemachus. Like a bunch of rude young men! And then the story could show an adult man brutally murdering a group of young people with no mercy. Then, the song ends with Odysseus seeing Penelope’s horrified face as she looks around the throne room splattered with the blood and gore of her guests. At that moment, Odysseus realizes he’s messed up, putting his biggest fear, which is Penelope rejecting him (something he expresses in Keep Your Friends Close) at risk of becoming a reality. And then, the musical end with Odysseus begging Penelope to accept him despite what he has become. Like what I said, the outcome will still end up in this moment despite with or no sexual violence. I mean, the suitors wanting to kill Telemachus is enough as a motivation. Ody don't really need that much.

I dunno , I think this would hit harder, rather than "Ahh you saved me from the rapist my husband! Thank you!~😍 " "All for you baby girl~~ 😘"

The gangrape plotline only exists to make Odysseus look good for the audience, making him into the good hero who saves the damsel with zero screentime, and reassures that the suitors are antagonists. But it does also puts Penelope in a position where she has to take Odysseus back, or else she risks being seen as “ungrateful” by the audience. I promise you, if Penelope were to reject Odysseus after he saved her from the suitors, most of the fanbase would despise her for it. Of course, that won’t happen, Penelope will accept Odysseus no matter what he does, cuz that is what her characterization is. She is Odysseus' happy ending, if she rejects him then the story wont have a happy ending.

The sexual violence just isn’t necessary. Especially when Jorge went out of his way to make the relationship between Odysseus and Calypso as vague as possible. There’s no explicit statement in the musical that Calypso assaulted Odysseus, and I’m Not Sorry For Loving You is even depicted in a sympathetic light. That was a deliberate choice. So, why remove and downplay the sexual assault from the original story with Calypso, only to add a sexual assault subplot towards Penelope that wasn’t in the original?

It’s unnecessary. Just let Odysseus commit cruel and ruthless deeds without a "good justification" or feeling bad about it afterward for once.

However, the last saga isnt out yet, so there is a possibility that Jorge have rewritten it. I do hope that he removes it, but at this moment, it looks like it will be in there. Welp, maybe he pulls the rug under my feet with a twist or some sort. We can only wait and see!

[breezilis]

something that makes me soooo insane about telemachus in i can't help but wonder (and also in the wider context of epic the musical) is that telemachus says in i can't help but wonder,

"i can't help but wonder what your world must be / if we're like each other, if i have your strength in me / all this time i've wondered if you'd embrace me as your own"

because — for so much of his life, telemachus has probably been told stories about king odysseus, his father, cunning strategist, favored of athena, etc etc, and wanting to live up to that ("i know life and fate are scary, but i wanna be legendary!", "and i would fight them if i was half as strong as you" from legendary)

he has also spent so much of his life being terrorized, and watching his mother being terrorized, by suitors for her hand — and he probably thought "well, FATHER would be able to drive them off!"

and then odysseus does come. and he kills them all.

and. yes. father has finally returned. finally driven them off. but his father also had to save telemachus from melanthius, the one suitor who threatened to "break the kid's hands" to cow odysseus.

there must have been something in telemachus that thought, "ah. so you are exactly as legendary as everything i've ever heard about you, father. and i am...not."

reminder that, in we'll be fine, telemachus says that his time with athena has been the best day of his life "'cause [he] got in a fight and [he] didn't die" — that was probably his first ever fight.

plus, with the way the suitors mock him and speak about him, he's probably VERY AWARE that he is constantly compared to his father, and found lacking.

so of course he's thinking about how his legendary, cunning, kingly father might ALSO compare them, and might come to the same conclusions as everyone else. he might well decide that telemachus would not be WORTHY of being, to borrow telemachus' own words here, "embrace[d] as [odysseus'] own".

of course, odysseus has never once thought about his son as anything other than HIS — "my boy", "my son", "sweetest joy i've known", a driving force to getting him home in the horse and the infant ("penelope, telemachus, i'm on my way") and in keep your friends close where you can hear telemachus as one of the voices urging odysseus to keep his eyes open — but i wonder how long it would take telemachus to really believe that his father isn't disappointed in him, because he has spent TWENTY YEARS being put and putting himself in the shadow of this man — and it might even make him self conscious, that odysseus spent all that effort coming home to his Ideal Family™ only to be met with the reality of what they really are.

i firmly believe that to ody, the reality of his family will always be better than the "ideals" — and that probably ody's "idealized family" is literally just. whatever penelope and telemachus are like now.

but idk. it's just something i feel like they'd have to work through, now that odysseus IS home, and it is just such a consistent part of telemachus' character that i haven't really seen anyone discuss.

[flashthescalesian-art]

Okay but an EPIC: The Musical AU where Odysseus brings Astyanax along instead of killing him, and Polites immediately decides to be the fun uncle for this baby. B U T during the whole Cyclops thing, instead of dying, Polites just gets really injured, so Odysseus carries him back to the ship and tries to tend his injuries. (Astyanax is safely with a few other members of the crew, don’t worry). Polites is still hurt too badly to survive for long, so Odysseus begs the gods for help, and Hermes shows up with something (a potion/elixir/whatever you wanna call it) that’ll heal Polites.

It doesn’t immediately make Polites better (I’m a sucker for hurt/comfort, don’t come at me), but he survives and heals, and he and Astyanax are both fine until the events of Thunder Bringer. Except instead of dying with the crew, they both wash up on Calypso’s island with Ody. Calypso finds them after finding Odysseus, but before he wakes up, she turns them into something (idk what, probably plants or something, this idea is just a concept rn).

So events go as they do in canon, but when Calypso has to let Odysseus leave, she’s also forced to free Polites and Astyanax too, so they get turned back to normal and get to leave with Odysseus, who is honestly just BAFFLED by the fact that his best friend and adopted son are still alive, but he’s also so freaking happy to have them back after seven years of torment. (Astyanax is probably like ten now even tho he spent seven years as a plant or something, but idk maybe he’s still a toddler. Haven’t decided)

They get home to Ithaca, Odysseus, Polites, and Telemachus kill the suitors, Ody reunites with Penelope and introduces her to Astyanax who she adopts immediately, and Telemachus and Astyanax get to hang out with their parents and Uncle Polites. Also Ody gets to sleep because that man needs it

[the-phoenix-heart]

miscellaneous thoughts about the Wisdom Saga

I imagine that the fight is happening right in front of Penelope's door and god it's juicy to imagine that your son is about to be killed by these suitors, but you can't reveal yourself.

Also imagining that Penelope and Telemachus's doors have some sort of contraptions on them to make them impossible to open? That's why the suitors can't just break in, they literally don't have the mechanism to open it. Which is why they ask Telemachus to open her door. Plus it just makes sense? These are rowdy suitors who are probably wrecking shit in the main halls, they can't have them doing that in the royals' rooms.

I personally imagine Athena not looking at Telemachus during the fight at first. Like, she appears behind him back to back with her arms crossed and then she looks at him when she's done being broody because he's so sweet.

That scene on the cliff that scene on the cliff-okay first of all Ody's monologue about all he's sacrificed and all his pain I like to think has Calypso thinking about her own past during the Titan War, but ALSO-also. When he's hearing Polites, Eurylochus, and Penelope's voices idk what the stream did for it but I'M thinking of it as them tormenting him in his mind. And like, I'm imaginig that Polites looks broken because he got crushed but he also has his eyes gouged out and he's holding Tiresias's staff and has a crown of lotuses, Eurylochus has a cow's head on as well as holding the wind bag and has lichtenberg figures on him, and Penelope's lower half is detached from her with a red x between her upper body and a mermaid's tail PLUS she's got eel heads around her. You get it they represent the different saga's and the different atrocities that happened you get it.

GOD GAMES I think while Athena is talking to Hephaestus the mural behind her is probably a commemoration of that time he trapped Aphrodite and Ares in bed ("He was betrayed and then imprisoned" that part of the song) and then when she mentions "he can still build a future with those who miss him" Aglaea comes up to him and like gives him a little beverage because he's in his forge you know and that's what gets him to say release him.

This last one has like, no basis in anything-is not even APPROACHING canon, but my brain says it would be such a fun idea if like Athena is struggling to corporealize after Zeus's attack, but then you see Poseidon behind a pillar raise his hand and a (sea green) tear roles down her face and when it hits the ground it ripples and Quick Thought activates with it's clock face and THEN she's seeing the memory of Odysseus and the motivation for Poseidon is he WANTS Odysseus to be free because he WANTS to kill him.

anyway, brain worms, brain rot, yada yada yada.

[rubysephi]

This is my take on the Ithica saga, feel free to tell me your thoughts

The challenge: the song starts with the viola, which is Penelope motif. The challenge she prepared is a display of her annoyance to the suitors because she knows only ODYSSEUS can succeed, this challenge is to show the suitors they can never compare to Odysseus, to the true man of the house. Speaking of man of the house, it was a cut song from the musicals, in the original Homer Odyssey, Telemachus called himself the man of the house, however here, he is not, the suitors took too much space in the house. The suitors only want the power that comes with being the man of the house, the challenge is to buy time for Odysseus to come back because she saw the storm, the abnormal behavior of the sea, she knows or at least hope Odysseus is coming. “ I'd rather die then grow old without the best of you” oh she ain't talking to the suitors, she is talking about Odysseus, knowing the suitors won't succeed in stringing the bow and shooting through the axes. Waiting, waiting she was waiting for years and yet she still have to wait for a few moments, she is longing for her husband

Hold em down : ‘ thrown back to the end of legendary with the “ where is he “. The suitors not being able to string the bow, and antinous releasing penelope tricked them, to forever delay them. we can hear Odysseus in the background, he is hearing the suitors plan, ready to kill them. We can also hear the viola in the background when antinous speak about what he will do to Penelope, perhaps showing her lack of say in the matter because only her instrument is there and not her voice

Odysseus: Odysseus chorus being the same as Polyphemus showing he is no longer a man during this, he is the monster. Also he said enough just before killing the suitor, Jusy like how polyphemus said enough before killing his man .All he has been through as shown him mercy isn't the solution anymore. Normally through the other saga the “ open arms “ melody shows that Odysseus still hung on to his friend, polities, view on the world but now he abandoned it . The danger motif keep showing up cause Odysseus is the danger, nother suitors, the electric guitar is always present. He is aiming for the torches, just like Scylla did when she killed his man, taking another inspiration from another monster. He is not letting them threaten his family after Fighting so hard to get back to his island, his loves one. The Legendary motif and Athena motif mixing omg , Athena taking in Telemachus like she did to Odysseus, full circle moment. “ Hold him down “ thrown back to the previous song , but all to the end of legendary “ where is he “. “ Mercy ? Mercy!” His mercy has long since drowned, perhaps like how he nearly drowned in “ get into the water” ; it stayed underneath the way, only ruthlessness remained. Also Eurymachus's askinf for forgiveness just like how Odysseus asked for forgiveness to Poseidon, getting the same answer “not” he truly took something form every foe he fought. Unlike the suitors, his aim is true, the arrows flying right to the target without fail. The end of the song mimicking the end of “ Survive” with Polyphemus, the chorus singing Odysseus, showing how much he embraced the monster, also the screams of the suitors omg, perfect . Perhaps as well the Chorus saying “ ody sseus” is the the same as the chorus at the end of no longer you

I can't help but wonder: nylon or acoustic guitar playing at the beginning , this isn't the monster, this is Odysseus, he softened for his son, once the threat was dealt with. The reunion between Telemachus and Odysseus is so heartwarming, Telemachus kept hearing tales and stories about his father, making up his vision of Odysseus based on those. However Odysseus only saw Telemachus as an infant, he didn't have anything to imagine what he son would be like, other the image of the infant Telemachus once was ( also the infant imagine of Telemachus could be tainted by the fact that Odysseus had to kill infant astanyax). They only could wonder about each other for years, and now that they are faced with each other, they can answer those questions. Also as they start to sing together, we can hear Athena motif, showing she is there watching over them both. I think I can hear a chunk of “ I'm just a man “ guitar before Odysseus says “ show yourself” also a huge throwback to warrior of the mind, them finally meeting back after all these years. The character development of Athena is so massive, going from no feelings to wanting to have a better world where people could be more kind. When she speaks we can hear the piano notes from the end of “ my goodbye”. The clock from the deep dive in the hour Glass, mixing with the guitar, both theirs opinion co existing

Would you fall in love with me again: the viola and the guitar finally together. “ I'm not the man you fell in love with” he truly thinks he became the monster, that the prophecy Tiresias told was true “ I see your wife with a man who is hunting”. When Penelope asked what he did , the ruthlessness motif okay, then thunder wringer motif and then the Scylla motif, showing his journey of sacrifice, the man he lost. The guilt heavy to Carry for a man that wanted to make it home. Penelope didn't ask Odysseus to move the olive tree bed because she thought Odysseus wasn't her husband but because she knew he wouldn't do it, she asked him to make him realize he was still the same man who carved that bed from the tree they first met at. This was Penelope making him know that , no matter what he did, the trouble he went through, it's still him , the man she decided to love and cherish , the man she married and waited for . Perhaps it was also to reassure herself that her wait is finally over, that her husband is truly standing there, in arm reach. ( The olive tree is also a cut song ). Penelope says “ waiting” 8 times because she waited 8 sagas for her husband to come home, this section also last 20 seconds for the 20 years she waited for him . She is so faithful to him, no matter if he did horrible things to survive, he was just a man who tried to survive and make it home to his wife and son. The instrumental of “ just a man “ playing soon after Penelope said you, "Is so genius, because at the end of the day, he was not the monster he made himself to be, he is just a man, who traded the world ( his crew ) for his son and wife.

Perhaps I can also hear in the Instrumental “ just a man, who Finally made it home, after all the years away from what he knows, he's just a man , who has fought for his life, deep down , he traded the world for his Son and wife” also him not singing the lyrics over the instrumental because he made it home, he don't have to sing about going home anymore, just like dangerous where the crew didn't sing “ making back Alive to our homeland” because they died,

And the musicals ending with” I love you “ ,omg , it's was a journey about love and lost, a man doing everything for love and losing a lot during his journey

Also the constant acoustic guitar playing while Odysseus talk showing he is the man and not the monster

Edit : I just realized between challenge and wyfilwma, Penelope sings waiting 13 times (6 in challenge, 7 in wyfilwma) and Ody faced 13 obstacles to get home (cyclops, storm, giants, circe, Underworld, sirens, scylla, mutiny, zeus, calypso, charybdis, poseidon, suitors)

[mynicknameisgasoline]

im just spam posting abt epic but in the song odysseus...

THE MELODY OF LEGENDARY BEFORE TELEMACHUS WAS REVEALED??? HELLO??? JORGE WHAT WERE YOU ON BC I NEED THAT???

ALSO I LOVE HOW HE DEF ACJNOWLDGED THAT THEY WERE PLANNING ON 🍇ING PENELOPE

ALSO THE SOUND OF NO LONGER YOU PLAYING WHILE ODY KILLS THE SUITORS???

Btw crying in i cant help but wonder

[fluffyslothdragon]

Antinous’ Assassin: (cw: abuse, murder attempts)

After Odysseus’ faking insanity failure pre Trojan War, Antinous decides Telemachus is an unnecessary weakness to the royal family

Various forms of divine intervention keep him from killing the little baby, so instead he steals Telemachus and raises/trains him for his own purposes.

The journey home is on speedrun since Odysseus doesn’t dox himself, so Polyphemus can’t reveal him to Poseidon, and while Athena gives Ody a tongue lashing, she stays and helps where needed. However Poseidon still makes the seas rough out of principle of fact and while he knows it was Odysseus, he’ll let it go since there’s no confession, and Athena is there.

All in all, the journey takes about 2-3 years.

During this time Telemachus (renamed Lykos) is brought up with the notion that Odysseus is some sort of evil, and that it’s his destiny to stop Odysseus. Kid’s been trained his whole life, and knows nothing about there being a missing prince, and anything he has heard, he chalks up to the villainy of Odysseus.

When the suitors start filing in. Antinous manages to get Lykos a job in the palace and gives the kid orders to climb up the ranks until he’s close to Penelope and Ctimene. If a certain length of time goes with no contact between the two, then Lykos is to kill one or the other as a way to hurt Odysseus. (Ctimene is also pursued by the suitors)

Cut to the bro squad returning home, and Ody and Eury are not happy to learn of the suitors, especially since they came back from a war caused by a dipstick messing with someone’s marriage. Thus the bloodshed begins.

Polites (crippled from the cyclopes) holds the door for the ones smart enough to leave. 

Before they can get far, the girls tell them about Telemachus going missing, which only makes Ody more vindictive in the slaughter.

Antinous spins a threat that he knows what happened to the prince and will get him killed if need be.

Only Polities is close enough to hear this, backing him in a corner that doesn’t let him tell the others about the secret, but that Antinous must be spared.

Of course, the others recognize the situation, so Antinous is imprisoned.

Antinous changes the instructions for Lykos so that Polites and Eurylochus were on the ‘allowed to kill to hurt Ody’ list.

Time moves on, the squad continue to grieve for Telemachus, Lykos believing it to be an act from them.

Taking inspiration from a certain someone, Polites takes to the forge and becomes talented just short of having Hephaestus as a patron god.

After Antinous is interrogated endlessly, he cuts contact for Lykos to kill one of the squad. Since Eury and Ctimene are hardly apart (especially with Ctimene pregnant) and Polites has any weapon to his disposal, Lykos goes for Penelope.

He forgets to factor in Odysseus’ actual presence and gets caught.

Antinous threatens to kill him for his failure.

Cue up to the gods, where Athena catches up to what's going, but is blocked from telling the squad by Zeus, like the other gods, but watches as Hestia loopholes the block like a girlboss, because no way in Tartarus is Zeus banning Hestia from what’s her domain.

Hestia tells Odysseus that Lykos is too young to have proper hatred for him. So while not telling him the truth about Lykos, she puts the logic that Lykos is a child molded/brainwashed by someone and could be in danger due to his failure.

Odysseus decides told help Lykos, though keeping him in close proximity of the squad (who have all now acquired hidden daggers courtesy of Polites) since they want to make sure he won’t try again.

Antinous manages to escape, and Lykos panics so bad, he winds up getting sick. 

Once Lykos recovers, Odysseus has to go on some kind of voyage (For now it’s to meet up with Menelaus, if someone has a better reason let me know) Ody drags Lykos with him because … trust issues. (whoever joins them depends on what the voyage is for. If this reason stands, then Penelope joins)

During his time on the sea, Lykos finally relaxes without having about Antinous and starts acting his age. Ody and Pen watch this and realize that Lykos is Telemachus

When they tell him, kid has another panic attack since he tried to kill his own mother

The voyage is over and they’re back at shore, but Antinous ambushes Telemachus. Penelope sneaks behind him and (fueled by Hera and/or Hestia) stabs him from behind. Telemachus takes the distraction to get out of dodge, while Odysseus kills Antinous. 

Big reunion and therapy for the child.

[fandomsandflyingstingrays]

Thoughts on the Ithaca Saga!

Spoilers under the cut, obviously

The Challenge

I'd listened to all the snippets beforehand and they did not come CLOSE to capturing the glory of the final song

Anna absolutely killed it, every note she sang was so stunning

And the instrumental? The way it built?? I'm still going nuts over it

10/10 very strong contender for my favorite song in the saga, which I was not expecting

Hold Them Down

Made me very uncomfortable

Which of course was the point so like it was effective

But I have no desire to talk about it more than I have to

(I will say though that I was not expecting Antinous's death to be in that song and so sudden, the gasp I let out was unreal)

Odysseus

Speaking of things that made me gasp: I audibly choked at the open arms bit. I thought I was used to Polites haunting the narrative but NOT LIKE THIS

I listened to this one before watching the stream so that I could be prepared in case the violence got really intense and boy am I glad I did

Like I knew SOMETHING bad was going to happen because of how intense the song got at the end but. I was. Not expecting that

Everyone who sang absolutely killed it though like Jorge's exhaustion and anger? So palpable. The suitors' performance? Incredible

And TELEMACHUS

THE INSTRUMENTAL WHEN HE SHOWED UP WAS SO COOL

And he sounded just like Ody when he sang "get off me, get off me"... my heart

I Can't Help But Wonder

I'll admit I was still too in shock from the end of Odysseus to really process this one at first

But the hug made me lose it

(Both Odysseus and Telemachus's and Jorge's and Mico's I was fully sobbing)

(Also the way Odysseus sang "Telemachus" in the familiar motif. I still can't listen to it without crying frankly)

I will say though literally the only thing in the saga I have any complaint about is Odysseus's reunion with Athena

We had a whole saga about how her friendship with him was still very much on her mind, and buildup to their reunion with Hermes's little hint at the end of Dangerous, and to have them talk about morality for a bit and then for Ody to skeddadle to go find Penelope was... realistic, I guess, but not very satisfying

It's not a huge issue or anything I just wish we could have gotten more of them

Would You Fall in Love With Me Again

Another moment that had me in tears: Drawing_Angie's animatic with all the other animatics in the background. Look how far we've come

I love that Penelope's test with the bed was to help Odysseus realize that he was the same person, that was such a cool twist

Also again, Anna killed it. The raw emotion in her voice at the "I guess that makes him you"? The two decades of anger and fear in the "waiting"s? Unmatched power

GIGI'S ANIMATIC. I WAS LOSING IT IT WAS SO GOOD

Also, the livestream in general was SO much fun. I genuinely can't remember the last time I laughed as hard as I did at the cast's antics. What a wonderful group of people

[mandlien]

Spoilers for the Ithaca Saga

PENELOPE!!! MY QUEEN I LOVE YOU!!!

Gosh, this saga is absolutely full of bangers. I’ll need to re-listen more times before I have a favorite, but I’m really vibing with Would You Fall In Love With Me Again. It’s just, the perfect love, reconciliation song. The olive tree! Ody admitting to the things he’s done! Penelope refusing to not see him as her husband, as long as his love for her remains the same!!!

Challenge was somehow even more wonderful than the demo with the more complex instruments.

We have two villain songs in this saga, both of them amazing!! Hold them Down is too amazing of a bop for such horrendous topic matters. How am I supposed to sing this song out loud near other people, Jorge? But also, Odysseus interrupting Antinous’ moment at the end by just killing one of the suitors (or him! I can’t tell without the visuals or the lyrics!) is too amazing, kkkk.

“Odysseus” is so ominous, I love it. Full monster Ody, I love you. That one suitor asking for forgiveness, for open arms, and then just being shut down is, ahdhaahsn. Aiming at the torches!! Ody learning from the monsters he faced through his journey how to perfectly fight back against the suitors! The hold them down being repeated!! Ody’s voice in the end is so dark!!!!

I can’t help but wonder about the visuals in this one. What happened with Telemachus in there? Why did Ody leave the armory unlocked 🤔. The suitors’ screams at the end, though. Awesome.

Still, my boy Telemachus in I Can’t Help But Wonder slayed, their reunion was so fricking emotional!!Telemachus’ uncertainty, his yearning for his father for his whole life! Odysseus really capturing the wind and sky for him (wind bag), how he made the storm (Poseidon) cry for him!!

AND MY GIRL ATHENA IS BACK!! I knew you weren’t dead, I believed in you!!

But also, their moment was so bittersweet. So goood. Their reverse character arc is so good!! Ody starts wanting to believe in open arms, while Athena is more ruthless and wants him to be too. Now, Athena wants to believe in a more hopeful world, where there is more empathy, but Ody went through too much to believe in such things anymore. Still, she is immortal, maybe she can create this better world in the future. AAAAAAA, so GOOD!

I can’t wait to see all of this with visuals. Still, I’m glad/sad to see the of this journessy.

[geodetojoy]

Collection of wisdom saga thoughts:

(None of these are in chronological order it’s just whatever pops in my head :P)

- Athena calling ody her friend in we’ll be fine vs ody calling Athena his mentor in monster????? That compared to my goodbye???? Fucking brutal. They’ve both changed so much after losing each other bro. OW

- LOVE that in little wolf the suitors are always using the chorus as like a taunt, bit it never fits into their dialogue it just kinda interrupts it but then Athena comes along and the chorus ties directly into what she’s saying, like “don’t go down without a- fight little wolf fight!” It’s really cool how it shows his opposition vs his allies I love it

- also just. so many shrimp emotions brought out during legendary and we’ll be fine. guh

- the video game aspects were so cool!!!!!! Love the one on one with Telemachus and antinous with the mortal combat-esk animation that went along with it!! And in god games how every time Athena convinced a god it played like a level up sound effect!!! Suuuper interesting :D

-CALYPSO!!!!! HER!!!! The first time ody has faced an enemy that doesn’t mean him any harm (harm as in like. trying to kill him, obvi she still did some fucked up shit to him) but might actually be the worst one out of all of them because he just misses his wife so damn badly. Don’t even get me STARTED on the fuckin “ody” and “open arms” shit bro that HURT

- Did I mention I love Telemachus? I love Telemachus. He’s so ambitious and so so kind and has such a good heart I adore himmmmmm <3 Despite never really being able to meet his dad aside from as an infant, he looks up to him so much and respects him and wants to be like him, and I’m sure that’s all Penelope’s doing <333 the wife and husband ever, actually. they invented heterosexuality and true love

-GOD GAMES!!!!!!! While I’ve seen plenty of understandable criticisms, like it being too short or fast-paced, I think jay did the absolutely best he possibly could with it!! It’s so fun and gives us such a good glimpse into the thoughts and priorities of all of the gods and ATHENA!!! WHAT A QUEEN!!! UNMASKED WITTY AND QUEEN OF THE BEST STRATEGIES WE’VE SEEN FRRRRR!!! Also I’m fuckin obsessed with ares’s voice it sounds so coollllll AND ZEUS’S GROWL BROOOO it’s so impressive I wish I could do that. I’m also gonna have the way they say Aphrodite and hera in my head forever I owe them my life

- I know jay talked about it in a short, but I actually really enjoyed the differing perspective!!! Don’t get me wrong I miss my boy ody and I’d love to know more details about his situation but I’m so incredibly happy we got an Athena pov I have so much more appreciation for her she might be my favorite character now

- I’ll never get over all of the unique character motifs and just how unique they sound. Like how Circe and calypso sound so similar yet so incredibly different, just like their stories!!! Jay you legend

Ok that’s all for now back to listening on repeat

[onlymimiwastaken]

In the warrior Penelope AU, Does Odysseus have to deal with Antonius and the other suitors while his wife’s away? Also how would the challenge go in this AU?

hii, tysm for the interesting question! I'll explain how it goes in my version of the AU below!

Basically, yes, Odysseus still has to deal with the Suitors and Antinous, but with different circumstances to fit the whole thing better.

The Suitors aren't at Ithaca because a king can't rule without a queen, but because Odysseus can't rule without Penelope. They are a team, Odysseus doesn't do it all alone, he knows how smart she is. So without Penelope, the kingdom is crumbling, because half things aren't getting done and the other is neglected by a man who is depressed without his wife. The Suitors go to Ithaca to take over, but it's not that they want to marry Ody (not that they can, though I like to imagine Antinous as a close minded bi man and the Suitors as the LeFou to his Gaston), but rather, they want to be nominated sort of his advisors, someone really close to Odysseus to "help him", to then kill him secretly.

This is where Athena comes in. Athena is there at Ithaca, always has been, to do her best to help Odysseus and buy time. But she's disguised as , guess who, Mentor! Remember him from the myth? Odysseus said that once Mentor is finished weaving, he will choose a suitor, but Mentor is never done weaving. He's the goddess of weaving herself making her secret plan work. Also, Mentor just never fucking dies in 20 years and that's suspicious to the Suitors, since he's not really young. They wait for him to die and he never does, and to that Mentor claims that it's the "will of the gods, probably". Telemachus doesn't know that the man who grew him together with his dad is a goddess.

Now, the challenge. In EPIC (unless Jay changes it but from the snippet it's this), it's "whoever can string my husband's old bow, and shoot through twelve axes cleanly, will be the new king...". In this AU, it's basically the same, since one of Penelope's weapons is the bow. The Suitors are a bit weirded out, because how could a woman be that strong right, but they accept because they think it's too easy. Until Penelope disguised as a man comes and does it better than them. Another way I could twist it up is to make it a weaving challenge instead, and make the Suitors super bad at it because they are warriors, but I feel like we have the weaving theme already and something different is better!

This is my idea for now. Subject to change, like always. If you have any other ideas or want to share your own things, I'd be happy to hear 🫶

[sombrathedragon]

HI HI hyperfixation question time!!

I’ve never listened to EPIC, tell me a few reasons you love it (bc I wanna know if I should listen to it) and tell me your favorite song so I can go listen to it immediately :D

Ooo okay !! :D

let me give a summary first: EPIC is a musical adaptation about Homers Odyssey. It’s broken up into 9 sagas, with each saga being about 4-5 songs long. The sagas basically break up Odysseus’s journey into different parts: The Troy saga (Odysseus and his men winning the Trojan war and beginning to sail back home, we also get a introduction to Odysseus’s mentor, Athena here !!) The Cyclops saga (Ody and his men having some trouble in the Cyclopes cave) The Ocean saga (Ody and his men trying to sail back home to Ithaca through storms and troubles (spoiler alert they don’t make it)) The Circe Saga (Ody and his men landing on Circe’s island instead, with Ody having to convince Circe to give his men back. (Fun fact in the actual Odyssey Ody stays here for a year! I don’t think they do that in EPIC though!)) The Underworld saga (Ody and his men travel to the underworld and get a prophecy on what the rest of the journey is going to be like (‘nother spoiler Ody doesn’t like it, also this is the end of Act 1!!) the Thunder Saga (Ody and his men going through tricks, betrayal, and Zeus himself) the Wisdom saga (Perspective change we’re now back in Ithaca in the POV of Telemachus, Odys son!! Telemachus now being under the guidance of Athena, gets help from her to fight the suitors and convinces her to go help her old friend (cough cough HIS FATHER) who may or may not be stuck on a certain goddess island for 7 years (cough cough CALYPSOS ISLAND) another fun fact this is actually all the sagas released currently! There’s still 2 more in the works which are the Vengeance saga (Ody gets off of Calypsos island and actually sails home, but of course he encounters another monster and another god, that man can’t get a break!) and the Ithaca saga (We go back to Ithaca to see Penelope, his wife and the 108 suitors there, who don’t exactly treat Penelope and Telemachus the nicest.. but Odysseus is finally home and I won’t spoil much more but he does kill the suitors :] yayyy happy ending !!)

Anyways, actually answering your questions now !! Some of the reasons I love it are that the music is absolutely amazing, the callbacks with the instruments combined with the vocals are enough to make me bawl my eyes out sometimes :’) Same with the talented animators and artists in the fandom, who just make my jaw drop when I see their masterpieces. Also the community is just lovely, it sometimes gets toxic but overall it’s a relatively chill and peaceful fandom! but urghhh my favorite song? Ahhh they’re all so good !! I would have to say Little Wolf from the Wisdom Saga, it’s very catchy and very groovy, but I do also love The Challenge from the Ithaca saga as I love my girl Penelope !! (sadly it’s not released yet, how I listen to it is Jorge (creator of musical) sometimes puts out snippets of the songs, and wonderful fans combine them together so yeah :])

Anyways I DEFINITELY recommend it if you need a new musical to hear, it’s just perfect <3

[agentcalypso]

my (mostly) coherent thoughts on the ithaca saga

spoilers, obviously

🏹 THE CHALLENGE 🏹

so there are currently 151k ppl rn

absolutely beautiful art omg

the way that she sounds so different from sirenelope is just *chefs kiss*

man of the house i mourn you every day

odysseus penelope and telemachus are gaslight gatekeep girlboss change my mind

GO OFF QUEEN

WAAAIIITIIING

ALSO AWESOME ART AGAIN

10/10

🏹 HOLD THEM DOWN 🏹

do none of these fuckers know how to properly string a bow damn

but also (again) GREAT ART

look were it not for his crimes against the state antinous would be a smash ngl

wdym its not telemachus' birthday

ALL OF THIS ART IS EATING HOLY SHIT

that dead eyed look is terrifying jesus

OK POP OFF RIFF

lol rip

10/10

🏹 ODYSSEUS 🏹

THERE HE FUCKING IS

KILL THOSE FUCKERS ODY

im sorry but the way he melts into the darkness made me laugh ngl

hearing these compared to the original snippets is SO MUCH BETTER

eurymachus shut the FUCK up abt open arms youre just making him madder

hell yea including the other named suitors

TELEMACHUS WITH THE GLOW UPPPPPPP

we have seen what the king will do to those with their hands in the air

oh this slaps

OH JESUS /POS

GET 👏 THEIR 👏 ASSES 👏

oh thats. a lot of blood

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA/10

🏹 I CAN'T HELP BUT WONDER 🏹

im ngl i just. have no words this is so beautiful

SHES ALIVE :DDDDDDDDD

12/10

🏹 WOULD YOU FALL IN LOVE WITH ME AGAIN 🏹

again i cannot comment on this its just. the way that they know each other still. they accept oeach other no matter what. THEY ARE SO PERFECT

theyre finally at peace

11/10

in conclusion

HOLY SHIT

i feel so lucky to be able to see this show develop and this is such an incredible community that im so fortunate to be a part of. massive congratulations to jorge and everyone whos worked on this and i cant wait to see whats next. love you winions 🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶