#not for show sansa stans

[ai-manre]

Jon Snow had bent the knee to Queen Daenerys. Sansa did not like that.

They have a long conversation.

[Show!Sansa has a lot of (invalid) criticisms of Dany. Show!Jon is incapable of responding but Book!Jon can.]

[francy-sketches]

'why does show joffrey look like that he's supposed to be handsome' no sorry there's so many ugly/not conventionally attractive characteracters being prettywashed I think the rare cases of deyassification are based as hell. I like his weird little face ❤

[naetaesarya]

Personally, I plan to never get over how D&D tried to push Sansa Stark as the brains behind the Starks' martial strategy and leadership -- you know, with all of her "experience" vs Jon's literal years in a defence organization.

[fromtheseventhhell]

It's crazy that people still uphold show!Sansa as a well-written character and pretend that liking her is the pinnacle of feminism when it would be infinitely more impactful to acknowledge her terrible and misogynistic writing. This is the same character who, while written by two men, was thankful for the abuse she suffered because it allowed her to grow. The same character who we had to be told was smart because the writers were too lazy to develop or show her intelligence. The same character who had to rely heavily on the men surrounding her and ended up accomplishing nothing on her own merit ( and no, thinking that she deserved to be Queen doesn't mean that she earned it). She is not well-written, she is not complex, and she is not a feminist character. Which is fine! If you enjoy her then good on you, but please stop pretending that she's something she isn't just because you feel the need to justify liking her character

[daeneryseastar]

quick how shocking is it that an alicent stan is claiming that DAENERYS of all people isn’t an ‘actual mother’ and that her only children are her ‘fur babies’ and how DARE she be included in a mother’s day post?

she’s the mother of dragons (they were extinct for over a hundred years, she dreams of her hatching them by walking into a great fire, literally breastfeeds them as if they were her own), she’s ‘mhysa’ to the freedmen AND missandei, she became pregnant at 13 after being routinely raped for months and gave birth to a stillborn son. a baby she wanted so desperately, and it’s disingenuous and nasty af to reduce the bonds she’s procured with her dragons, the people she’s freed from their shackles, and her actual dead child(ren, maybe, bc she might have had a miscarriage at the end of adwd) to ‘can’t stand a fur baby bitch’ i am in your fucking walls.

i forget though, the only women deserving of sympathy in universe need to be given made up rape and abuse storylines in order for their suffering to count. not the THIRTEEN YEAR OLD who was sold into slavery, married off against her will to a 30 year old warlord, raped repeatedly to the point she wanted to die; along with being sexually exploited and physically abused by her brother, the only living family member she had left. they also need to be a white red headed woman who’s either an abusive piece of shit or a massive ungrateful xenophobe. i hope you have that same energy when a real life person loses their baby, make sure to tell them that because their kid is dead they can’t call themselves a parent anymore.

[daenerystargaryen06]

Can antis like, keep away from Daenerys please?

I'm so tired of seeing people writing out crap that Daenerys will be the villain, Jon is better, she is mad, calling her Danielle, yada yada. Just say you don't like her (because she is ultimately better than your fave) and go.

I'm also tired of seeing people giving the Starks (especially Sansa) her traits. I've seen edits of people making Sansa a Targ, people talking about how she'll get Daenerys' dragons, that Jon will kill Dany for her, etc.

Just keep Daenerys' name out of your mouth if you hate her and can't stand that she is strong, independent, and has an amazing character arc. A majority of Daenerys fans don't like other asoiaf characters, but you hardly see any of them going on a tangent about how much they hate that character. Usually it's us Dany fans defending anti hate against Dany and also defending antis hate on Dany to prop up their own fave (mainly Sansa).

I heavily have a high disdain for show!Sansa (she's alright in the books, not my fave but she's much better compared to the garbage that is her show character). But I don't go out of my way to hate on her, diss her character, write pointless metas about her going "mad", "evil", or "dark". Nor do I see any other Dany fan doing so. We don't hate on Sansa to prop up Dany. We don't give Dany character traits of other characters/Sansa. We don't speculate about how she'll die or get killed or manipulated by another man. It's disgusting.

It's also disgusting seeing anti hate towards Arya. Arya is my second favorite female character in asoiaf. She isn't ugly, she isn't crazy or some violent murderer, she isn't going to be permanently warged into Nymeria and become Sansa's; nor is she going to become Sansa's assigned assassin to kill all her enemies while Sansa and Jon live in lala land. It's not going to happen.

It is so disgusting how a vast majority of Arya and Dany fans don't do half the things their antis/Sansa stans do, yet they go out of their way to bash these wonderful characters to prop up their own fave or to get them out of the way for Sansa or Jon (mainly Jon fans who bash Daenerys to prop Jon up and cheer Jon for killing her).

We can talk about our faves without bashing another character, making metas about them that don't even follow the text, and just being outright nasty.

Do better. Just keep away from Daenerys and Arya.

[daenerystemper]

i feel like there's a lot to unpack here. i thought it was satire but after reading the comments i do not think its satire. "annoying arya minion" ok bestie 😭

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

TG stans and stansas rejoice in and ridicule women who get brutalized by their intimate partners, suffer traumatic miscarriages, lose almost all their children, and are murdered by a family member then turn around and cry about Helaena and Sansa's treatments in the fandom.

TG stans call Rhaenyra a fat whore, call her lazy for not riding a dragon into battle after a traumatic miscarriage (btw it takes 1-2 months to recover from a miscarriage), mock Visenya's death, and view the rest of Rhaenyra's children as subhuman. But when TB points out how Helaena and Aegon were both overweight in the book, talk about how Helaena went insane after B&C, and how she doesn't do much plot wise in either the book or show, they start bitching.

They complain about how people shouldn't target Helaena's weight, we should be sympathetic to her after her son is murdered, and she's really a victim so we should pity her not critique how little she does. Yeah, I agree, Helaena deserves sympathy for everything that happened to her, but so does Rhaenyra. But that doesn't matter to greenies, they just hate Rhaenyra so much that they'll act just as if not more awful than the misogynistic lords of Westeros.

Stansas will blame thirteen year old Dany for the crimes of her father, blame a bridal slave for the acts of her husband who bought her, call her a psychopath for not "properly" mourning her abusive brother who threatened to carve out her unborn baby, mock Rhaego's death, say she's a selfish person for freeing slaves, say she's a tyrant/horrible ruler for not perfectly dismantling a system built on millenia of slavery, mock her death, and theorize she'll turn into an mad tyrant based on nothing.

But if anyone criticized Sansa's portrayal on GoT, say she was being willfully ignorant in AGOT, talk about how she's persisting in her fantasies, critique how she acted in seasons 7/8, or theorize literally any ending for her character other than being qitn, they're sexist and hate all "feminine" women. They come up with the most horrible theories and write such hateful metas about Dany but then turn around and act like they and Sansa are the ones being victimized.

The shear hypocrisy of TG and Sansa stans is astounding, it's no wonder those parts of the fandom overlap so much. As long as they have their victims that they can project onto (Alicent/Helaena and Sansa), they're happy. But if anyone dares to criticize the characters or point out actual facts from the story, they turn around and bitch about how much we "hate their poor babies". It's just so frustrating seeing how much they hate and hate Rhaenyra and Daenerys yet reject anything that doesn't align with their ideas.

[g0lightly]

probably the best evidence i have for the idea that sansa will be a queen in some capacity by the time the asoiaf series ends is the fact that westeros has never had a canon-confirmed redheaded queen and i just don't think that george rr martin (both r's stand for "redhead appreciator" btw) would do that unless he was going to make a redhead queen in the books

[ladystoneboobs]

oh, so close, buddy, so close. why, yes, it is sexist of grrm to use sansa this way while writing the starkling bonds involving brothers as all but conflictfree! (we only get that one flashback of robb hurting jon by screaming about his bastardy and it's revealed pretty late in the game, near the end of asos, after robb's death. and clearly happened when they were quite young, an isolated incident, without which robb would have been pretty much a perfect brother to jon.) but it's especially bad when sansa/arya aren't just the only stark sisters in present timeline, they're also only one of two developed sisterly relathionships in the entire series, the other being their mother and her sister. that relationship had cracks in it years before catelyn was aware of them, and ended with a death threat from lysa leaving cat bitter towards her. is kinslaying or near-kinslaying the resolution y'all want for arya and her sister or just never meeting again period? what a great sisterly track record that would be for grrm! not to mention a great ending for arya, ignoring her own desire to see all her siblings again and finally have a good relationship with sansa! it's true that you can really tell that agot sansa was created just as a foil to arya and it's clear which sister the writer favored back then, who we're meant to side with. but to think that grrm has done nothing better with sansa since then, has never developed her beyond the token unstark and a "camera pov" for more plot important characters, that she has never once expressed any care for her sister, and that there is never any hope for sisters with a bad childhood relationship to grow and get along better once they're older, that they can never have a good relationship and should never even try, well, i'd say that makes you more sexist than grrm ever was as a writer and also kind of insulting toward his later work. congratulations on that!

[karinonsan]

Sansa (Sophie) had that Resting Bitch Face that really makes me swoon ☺️

[finitefall]

That interaction between Rhaenys and Alicent said it all, when Rhaenys asks if Alicent never imagined herself on the Iron Throne, the silence that follows suggests the girl never had. That is how we know Alicent is no Cersei. (the book and show version)

Actually, I think Alicent stans love her lack of ambition. They prefer Alicent being put in situations of betrayal, misunderstanding, sexual assault for 'character development' and making her sympathetic/likable over her actually commanding the Green Council and making ruthless/efficient political choices (any ruler, male or female, whould have arrested Rhaenyra). I'm gonna be honest, I hated what they did to Rhaenyra, I wanted her to WANT the throne and defend her birthright instead of crying over a book page, so I don't understand Alicent's stans. The main female characters are so... toothless. Give them agency, give them blatant ambition, give them rage, give them passion, give them revenge, give them pride, give them boldness, give them everything. No more simpering, fragile, unenterprising, and teary-eyed shrinking violet. GOSH!

They want a female character they're able to relate to, a self-insert character. Being a victim, is, unfortunately, very relatable for many of us, and they want to believe that if they endure they'll win (like show!Sansa). We talked (other nonnies and myself) about this here and here, actually.

And yes, they totally whitewashed Rhaenyra too, but as I said before, they want to push Rhaenicent down our throats so much that they have her crying over that page instead - and it worked for many viewers! I hope Rhaenyra will be more in character in season 2 since the finale scene with that look in her eyes is Rhaenyra, but with Hess & Condal let's not hold our breath.

[naetaesarya]

Jonsas saying that Sansa is THE romantic heroine of the series is so funny because Arya and Dany feel more romantic and they want Arya to serve Sansa and for Dany to be a crazy woman who is jealous of her. What do they think of the interview where George says Arya and Dany are his favourite girls, not Sansa?

Yeah, GRRM named Arya as a favourite, he named Dany as a favourite, Jon and Sam get shout-outs, but alas...

[fromtheseventhhell]

Another reason that Stansas hate the idea of Arya and Dany being friends (outside of them wanting to demonize Dany) is that they've convinced themselves that Dany and Sansa are the only main female characters, so if a Stark sister is going to have a significant relationship with Dany it has to be Sansa. Arya being constantly downplayed and treated like an accessory to Sansa has generally led to the consensus that her relationship with Dany will be defined by whatever Sansa's relationship (positive or negative) with her is. That's why Arya is always being left out of the "we were robbed of [x] female character friendship" conversations and why theories about Dany/Arya getting along are treated as Sansa hate; Arya, as a character, is seen as secondary to Sansa by a lot of people

[zazikels]

Can the clowns for one (1) second stop acting like Aemond only has hatred for Aegon. Christ.

[la-pheacienne]

On violence being used to sympathize with the female character: I find it scary how D&D read Theon's arc and thought "what a cool story, let's put Sansa in Jeyne's place?? She doesn't do anything in the Vale anyway"Because what she went through in KL wasn't enough, she had to suffer more. Even S0phie T. said in the behind-the-scenes book that she loved this arc because Sansa finally gained fans. I would hate to know that it ONLY now appears fans because my character was raped.

It is seriously fucked up indeed. Like the thought process they had to go through in order to conclude that Sansa needs to have Jeyne's arc. Indeed, that was the end of Arya as the protagonist we are supposed to sympathise with and Sansa as her foil : Sansa became central, but as a symbol of martyrdom, not as a fully fledged character. Yeah I know she became a girlboss later on but that was bullshit, so so forced, like a reward for what she went through.