#not for show sansa stans

[ai-manre]

Jon Snow had bent the knee to Queen Daenerys. Sansa did not like that.

They have a long conversation.

[Show!Sansa has a lot of (invalid) criticisms of Dany. Show!Jon is incapable of responding but Book!Jon can.]

[fromtheseventhhell]

Referring to Arya's development in Braavos as "brief descriptions" when her AFfC/ADwD chapters are almost entirely dedicated to showing us her training is...certainly a choice. Doing so to claim that Sansa has the more detailed learning arc? Pure clownery. You'd never guess from this response that the original post was about detailing Arya's training with the FM (using quotes from the book!) and makes no mention of Sansa anywhere. Notably this response provides no evidence from the books and makes objectively false claims; nowhere across five books is Sansa mentioned to have a grasp of High Valyrian but, of course, Sansa has to be handed every skill that Arya has without any page space dedicated to learning it. I know this is a wild concept, but Arya exists as her own character and not everything about her story can be applied to Sansa.

[francy-sketches]

'why does show joffrey look like that he's supposed to be handsome' no sorry there's so many ugly/not conventionally attractive characteracters being prettywashed I think the rare cases of deyassification are based as hell. I like his weird little face ❤

[danyseastar]

quick how shocking is it that an alicent stan is claiming that DAENERYS of all people isn’t an ‘actual mother’ and that her only children are her ‘fur babies’ and how DARE she be included in a mother’s day post?

she’s the mother of dragons (they were extinct for over a hundred years, she dreams of her hatching them by walking into a great fire, literally breastfeeds them as if they were her own), she’s ‘mhysa’ to the freedmen AND missandei, she became pregnant at 13 after being routinely raped for months and gave birth to a stillborn son. a baby she wanted so desperately, and it’s disingenuous and nasty af to reduce the bonds she’s procured with her dragons, the people she’s freed from their shackles, and her actual dead child(ren, maybe, bc she might have had a miscarriage at the end of adwd) to ‘can’t stand a fur baby bitch’ i am in your fucking walls.

i forget though, the only women deserving of sympathy in universe need to be given made up rape and abuse storylines in order for their suffering to count. not the THIRTEEN YEAR OLD who was sold into slavery, married off against her will to a 30 year old warlord, raped repeatedly to the point she wanted to die; along with being sexually exploited and physically abused by her brother, the only living family member she had left. they also need to be a white red headed woman who’s either an abusive piece of shit or a massive ungrateful xenophobe. i hope you have that same energy when a real life person loses their baby, make sure to tell them that because their kid is dead they can’t call themselves a parent anymore.

[daenerystargaryen06]

Can antis like, keep away from Daenerys please?

I'm so tired of seeing people writing out crap that Daenerys will be the villain, Jon is better, she is mad, calling her Danielle, yada yada. Just say you don't like her (because she is ultimately better than your fave) and go.

I'm also tired of seeing people giving the Starks (especially Sansa) her traits. I've seen edits of people making Sansa a Targ, people talking about how she'll get Daenerys' dragons, that Jon will kill Dany for her, etc.

Just keep Daenerys' name out of your mouth if you hate her and can't stand that she is strong, independent, and has an amazing character arc. A majority of Daenerys fans don't like other asoiaf characters, but you hardly see any of them going on a tangent about how much they hate that character. Usually it's us Dany fans defending anti hate against Dany and also defending antis hate on Dany to prop up their own fave (mainly Sansa).

I heavily have a high disdain for show!Sansa (she's alright in the books, not my fave but she's much better compared to the garbage that is her show character). But I don't go out of my way to hate on her, diss her character, write pointless metas about her going "mad", "evil", or "dark". Nor do I see any other Dany fan doing so. We don't hate on Sansa to prop up Dany. We don't give Dany character traits of other characters/Sansa. We don't speculate about how she'll die or get killed or manipulated by another man. It's disgusting.

It's also disgusting seeing anti hate towards Arya. Arya is my second favorite female character in asoiaf. She isn't ugly, she isn't crazy or some violent murderer, she isn't going to be permanently warged into Nymeria and become Sansa's; nor is she going to become Sansa's assigned assassin to kill all her enemies while Sansa and Jon live in lala land. It's not going to happen.

It is so disgusting how a vast majority of Arya and Dany fans don't do half the things their antis/Sansa stans do, yet they go out of their way to bash these wonderful characters to prop up their own fave or to get them out of the way for Sansa or Jon (mainly Jon fans who bash Daenerys to prop Jon up and cheer Jon for killing her).

We can talk about our faves without bashing another character, making metas about them that don't even follow the text, and just being outright nasty.

Do better. Just keep away from Daenerys and Arya.

[daenerystemper]

i feel like there's a lot to unpack here. i thought it was satire but after reading the comments i do not think its satire. "annoying arya minion" ok bestie 😭

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

TG stans and stansas rejoice in and ridicule women who get brutalized by their intimate partners, suffer traumatic miscarriages, lose almost all their children, and are murdered by a family member then turn around and cry about Helaena and Sansa's treatments in the fandom.

TG stans call Rhaenyra a fat whore, call her lazy for not riding a dragon into battle after a traumatic miscarriage (btw it takes 1-2 months to recover from a miscarriage), mock Visenya's death, and view the rest of Rhaenyra's children as subhuman. But when TB points out how Helaena and Aegon were both overweight in the book, talk about how Helaena went insane after B&C, and how she doesn't do much plot wise in either the book or show, they start bitching.

They complain about how people shouldn't target Helaena's weight, we should be sympathetic to her after her son is murdered, and she's really a victim so we should pity her not critique how little she does. Yeah, I agree, Helaena deserves sympathy for everything that happened to her, but so does Rhaenyra. But that doesn't matter to greenies, they just hate Rhaenyra so much that they'll act just as if not more awful than the misogynistic lords of Westeros.

Stansas will blame thirteen year old Dany for the crimes of her father, blame a bridal slave for the acts of her husband who bought her, call her a psychopath for not "properly" mourning her abusive brother who threatened to carve out her unborn baby, mock Rhaego's death, say she's a selfish person for freeing slaves, say she's a tyrant/horrible ruler for not perfectly dismantling a system built on millenia of slavery, mock her death, and theorize she'll turn into an mad tyrant based on nothing.

But if anyone criticized Sansa's portrayal on GoT, say she was being willfully ignorant in AGOT, talk about how she's persisting in her fantasies, critique how she acted in seasons 7/8, or theorize literally any ending for her character other than being qitn, they're sexist and hate all "feminine" women. They come up with the most horrible theories and write such hateful metas about Dany but then turn around and act like they and Sansa are the ones being victimized.

The shear hypocrisy of TG and Sansa stans is astounding, it's no wonder those parts of the fandom overlap so much. As long as they have their victims that they can project onto (Alicent/Helaena and Sansa), they're happy. But if anyone dares to criticize the characters or point out actual facts from the story, they turn around and bitch about how much we "hate their poor babies". It's just so frustrating seeing how much they hate and hate Rhaenyra and Daenerys yet reject anything that doesn't align with their ideas.

[ladystoneboobs]

oh, so close, buddy, so close. why, yes, it is sexist of grrm to use sansa this way while writing the starkling bonds involving brothers as all but conflictfree! (we only get that one flashback of robb hurting jon by screaming about his bastardy and it's revealed pretty late in the game, near the end of asos, after robb's death. and clearly happened when they were quite young, an isolated incident, without which robb would have been pretty much a perfect brother to jon.) but it's especially bad when sansa/arya aren't just the only stark sisters in present timeline, they're also only one of two developed sisterly relathionships in the entire series, the other being their mother and her sister. that relationship had cracks in it years before catelyn was aware of them, and ended with a death threat from lysa leaving cat bitter towards her. is kinslaying or near-kinslaying the resolution y'all want for arya and her sister or just never meeting again period? what a great sisterly track record that would be for grrm! not to mention a great ending for arya, ignoring her own desire to see all her siblings again and finally have a good relationship with sansa! it's true that you can really tell that agot sansa was created just as a foil to arya and it's clear which sister the writer favored back then, who we're meant to side with. but to think that grrm has done nothing better with sansa since then, has never developed her beyond the token unstark and a "camera pov" for more plot important characters, that she has never once expressed any care for her sister, and that there is never any hope for sisters with a bad childhood relationship to grow and get along better once they're older, that they can never have a good relationship and should never even try, well, i'd say that makes you more sexist than grrm ever was as a writer and also kind of insulting toward his later work. congratulations on that!

[g0lightly]

probably the best evidence i have for the idea that sansa will be a queen in some capacity by the time the asoiaf series ends is the fact that westeros has never had a canon-confirmed redheaded queen and i just don't think that george rr martin (both r's stand for "redhead appreciator" btw) would do that unless he was going to make a redhead queen in the books

[karinonsan]

Sansa (Sophie) had that Resting Bitch Face that really makes me swoon ☺️

[fromtheseventhhell]

It's crazy that people still uphold show!Sansa as a well-written character and pretend that liking her is the pinnacle of feminism when it would be infinitely more impactful to acknowledge her terrible and misogynistic writing. This is the same character who, while written by two men, was thankful for the abuse she suffered because it allowed her to grow. The same character who we had to be told was smart because the writers were too lazy to develop or show her intelligence. The same character who had to rely heavily on the men surrounding her and ended up accomplishing nothing on her own merit ( and no, thinking that she deserved to be Queen doesn't mean that she earned it). She is not well-written, she is not complex, and she is not a feminist character. Which is fine! If you enjoy her then good on you, but please stop pretending that she's something she isn't just because you feel the need to justify liking her character

[la-pheacienne]

On violence being used to sympathize with the female character: I find it scary how D&D read Theon's arc and thought "what a cool story, let's put Sansa in Jeyne's place?? She doesn't do anything in the Vale anyway"Because what she went through in KL wasn't enough, she had to suffer more. Even S0phie T. said in the behind-the-scenes book that she loved this arc because Sansa finally gained fans. I would hate to know that it ONLY now appears fans because my character was raped.

It is seriously fucked up indeed. Like the thought process they had to go through in order to conclude that Sansa needs to have Jeyne's arc. Indeed, that was the end of Arya as the protagonist we are supposed to sympathise with and Sansa as her foil : Sansa became central, but as a symbol of martyrdom, not as a fully fledged character. Yeah I know she became a girlboss later on but that was bullshit, so so forced, like a reward for what she went through.

[atopvisenyashill]

Do you think lady stoneheart is going to kill jeyne westerling?

no and my reason why is because i love her and i would cry if jeyne died so it’s not gonna happen!!!

NEXT ASK!

[ethereal-elegance]

@treehillraven23-blog

How delusional,dumb,and ignorant do you have to be believe this bs as a cop out to dismiss and downplay Daenerys' lack of privilege and family for most of her life,ntm victim blame her because your callous ass lacks empathy for the character☠️Daenerys literally lost everything (most of her family,her home,and what her family had that would've been hers) before she was even born as her mother died shortly after giving her (like Jon's mother,Lyanna),literally started life with nothing (all she would've had if Rhaegar didn't die,if Elia,Rhaenys,and Aegon,literally had nothing even begin with but her name and blood.So congratulations on implying you agree with these facts🤡🙃

And just because she never had the opportunity to know Rhaegar, the privilege to know all her siblings, since that was one of many she was robbed of even birth,it still count as loss especially when it's important full blood related members of the family such as her mother,Rhaella,who suffered all her life being abused by Mad King Aerys even before their father forced the sister and brother to marry for the Prince Who Was Promised prophecy.Viserys was almost just as cruel and abusive to Dany as Aerys was to Rhaella throughout their lives as just a brother,then her husband and king.I bet you would be agreeing with me if it was about Jon regarding Lyanna because it's always double standards with antis,since y'all are so full of shit.

Jon stans (but can't expect you to know since all nonas crackshippers are glorified self-insert sardine stans who projecting to fantasize about fucking Kit Harrington😂) of all people should know damn well how deep the void of a mother is (as Jon has serious mother issues thanks to being mistreated and looked down on due to his bastardy and Catelyn's abuse towards him as supposedly the product of Ned's infidelity),because Lyanna is more important to the narrative for some of the main characters,Jon and Arya,like Rhaegar is to Dany while Rhaella is not thanks to GRRM's intention with his writing in the books.Not to mention Dany looks up to Rhaegar and longs to know him even in death,which is why she's eager to learn about Rhaegar.So your reasoning is invalid regardless,and your first part about Viserys is downright blatant nonsensical lies🤦🏾‍♀️🤨

Daenerys did not "hElP" Khal Drogo to kill Viserys🙄There was literally nothing Dany could do to protect and save Viserys even though she told the Dothraki who witnessed Viserys assault her not to harm Viserys,and even tried to warn him against his misbehavior by giving him a taste for what's was to come if you continued,hence why Viserys was forced to walk on foot instead of riding on horseback as punishment for assaulting Dany.Not to mention GoT never shows Dany actually loved Viserys,still loves him,even misses him (since she remembers how well he treated her back then when he still loved her),but she would and could no longer help him (as she lacked agency and power even as Khal Drogo's wife as a girl who is actually just his child bride sex slave) after warning him about how his violent disrespect to the Dothraki and herself pregnant with Khal Drogo's son as his wife since Viserys forced her to marry the much bigger,much older,much scarier Khal Drogo so young as she was literally just a girl,just a child.

Let's just conveniently ignore book canon of how Viserys changed when he had sell the only thing left of their mother,Rhaella's crown,for food to survive as Dany was severely sick from starvation.Viserys snapped in that moment because he was very close to Rhaella,so he began being cruel,too harsh,verbally,emotionally,and physically abusive to Dany and had been terrorizing her ever since.Viserys would literally beat when "she woke the dragon",and it's obvious when he was even terrorizing her in her dragon dream in the books with the bruises on her naked body and her apparent fear,which is why the dream is symbolic of Dany being scared to wake her dragon.Dany's fear and her body language like she's trying to hide or escape from Viserys is also proof of this besides the memory pre-aSoIaF in one of her chapters Viserys beat Dany so hard all just because Dany spilled,clocked Viserys,and called out his double standards towards her concerning how she should've been born earlier.

As if it's somehow Dany's fault the Targaryens "fell from grace" due to Robert's Rebellion when she wasn't even born yet and just a baby when the Targaryen dynasty ended😭Viserys really had the audacity to shift the blame from the adults onto Dany and actually said if she would've been born earlier,Rhaegar would've had a much better option to marry instead,so Rhaegar would've have been so weak to be so enamored and lovesick with Lyanna he practically threw everything away to elope with her.That memory is manifested into a dragon dream as likely a trauma response similar to nightmares and PTSD of abuse victims.Since Dany was scared of him for years (which is a common response of abuse victims towards their abuser) as she reveals in her POV chapters Viserys hurt her,it can be inferred Viserys actually acted upon his threat towards Dany and the events of that dragon dream really happened before.

Let's just conveniently ignore Viserys consistently insulting and offending the Dothraki with his superiority complex,lashing out at a pregnant Dany and being violent towards her,provoking Khal Drogo by threatening to harm his wife and unborn child.Khal Drogo was literally protecting her from Viserys who posed a threat as he'd shown them all what he was capable with all his unprovoked,unwarranted hostility towards his own full blood related sister,his only family left.Not to mention in the books,Viserys planned to rape Dany before she married Khal Drogo and tried to enter her room at night,but Illyrio foresaw this and had guards stationed outside her door.Viserys felt entitled to Dany's maidenhead (virginity) which he perceived to be belong to him due to his Valyrian blood purity and supremacy and perceiving her as his property,because he believed Dany was supposed to be his bride and give him heirs as his only sister and other full blood Targaryen besides himself.

Oh the irony of Viserys' possessiveness of Dany when he sold his own sister,his only family to Khal Drogo in exchange for an army to take back his birthright,the Iron Throne.Tell me without telling me you never really read the books or even watched the show,most likely skipped Dany's chapters and scenes as antis tend to do,because y'all lack basic reading comprehension skills and are just too threatened by a character as iconic,compelling,great,and complex as Dany🤡

Even in the context of GoT,Viserys was still a cruel,abusive brother to Dany.Literally molested her,literally said he'd let all the Khal Drogo's men and their horses fuck her if that's what it would take to reclaim the Iron Throne,calls her degrading and derogatory slurs rooted in his racism and Valyrian blood supremacy such "Dothraki whore,Horse's slut" despite forcing her to marry the Khal for his own ends for the crown;Not to mention let's just conveniently forget Viserys really threatened to cut out Dany's unborn child when she was pregnant.After everything Viserys did to his own sister,even planned and tried to do to her,Viserys reaped what he sowed and honestly deserved what he got although I do have sympathy and pity for him considering how much his life changed for the worse due to Rhaegar's death and Robert Baratheon usurping.

But Viserys was wrong in punishing Dany for Rhaella's death,blaming and never forgiving her for Rhaella dying from childbirth.It's not her fault as she was literally just a baby fresh out of the womb.So it's valid and true Daenerys lost two brothers including her mother who GRRM rarely mentioned compared to Rhaegar and Aerys + GoT never even cared about to acknowledge Rhaella's existence considering it didn't suit their skewed narrative (but GRRM only used as a writing device often in fiction for characterization and character development to motivate Dany to become a true monarch who prioritizes her duty to the people over the self and devotes her life to protect and care for her people like a mother as the Mhysa/Mother of Dragons,the mother she never while being in the process of fulfilling the void of 'family','home',and "the childhood she had never known" by giving her people that symbolized by protection,security,and safety,because she can't bring back the dead or go back in time to save her family, and she can't even obtain the house with the red door,the lemon tree,and "the childhood she had never known" ) and great-great grand uncle Maester Aemon,who the GRRM didn't even have her meet unlike the likes of Jon who grew up with a father and siblings in a castle.

They’re both gone now. 

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Sansa Following Cersei Will Not Make Her Queen

I'm sure a lot of people have seen how stansas like posting about how Sansa will become queen because she learned from Cersei. Example below. I'm going to talk about why that doesn't make sense in both the show and the book.

Example:

First off, the obvious: Cersei is not a good ruler. In the show, she is a tyrant (except in season 8 where everyone is just fine with her for some reason). She blows up Baelor's Sept to get rid her political rival, she doesn't care about the smallfolk or even lesser nobles, and she gets rid of anyone who criticizes her. How exactly is she a good role model?

You could say: "Oh she's doing the opposite!" Is she? In the show, she almost gets Jon killed in the Battle of the Bastards (and looks very disappointed when she sees he's alive) and helps cause Rickon's death by hiding the truth about the Vale Knights. Jon and Rickon are her political rivals and she is directly involved with what happens to them by deliberately hiding information, which she had no good reason to hide btw. Her undermining of Jon continues is season 7, where, when Jon is gone trying to get allies to save the fucking world, she encourages the Northern lords to literally speak treason by saying they should've chosen her over Jon. She also for some reason doesn't take into account the fact that Jon is planning on bringing back a giant army when she's making food storage plans. Why not? Is she hoping Jon will fail? Either way this follows show!Cersei's shortsightedness.

We have further proof of her being like Cersei when Daenerys arrives at WF. D&D have literally confirmed part of the reason Sansa didn't like Dany was because she's pretty. Putting aside how sexist that is, that kind of pettiness is not something you want in a ruler. We see how it negatively affected Cersei's reign as she alienated and eventually killed her allies because of Margaery's beauty and conflicting goals. If Daenerys hadn't gone randomly insane, would Sansa have pulled a Cersei and tried to get Dany killed? Well we'll never know, but considering how quickly she betrayed Jon when it meant undermining Dany, I wouldn't put much past her.

In the same vein as the Dany jealousy, is the whole "Not one of us" mentality. Throughout the show Cersei constantly utilizes this view as support for why she doesn't trust anyone. This greatly sabotages her reign and makes her completely isolated thus furthering her mental spiral (both in the books and the show). Again, not a great thing to emulate, but show!Sansa fully embraces this rhetoric when she encounters Dany and her people (which is super xenophobic btw). If it weren't for Dany being in the North, Sansa and everyone else would be wights and the Night King would be winning. And yet, Sansa is outright hostile to Dany (where is Sansa's courtesy which is her armor?) running the risk that Dany will leave. And if what she believed about her being insane like Aerys was true, shouldn't she be worried about being fed to dragons (even though Dany wouldn't)? This is so very reminiscent of Cersei and Margaery and the ending is very much the same.

In the books, yes, Sansa has learned some valuable things from Cersei. However, she doesn't want to be like Cersei, and that's something I admire about her. Book!Sansa is not on path to be queen, and that's ok, in fact, with her role models being Cersei and fucking Littlefinger, that's a good thing.

[fromtheseventhhell]

Another reason that Stansas hate the idea of Arya and Dany being friends (outside of them wanting to demonize Dany) is that they've convinced themselves that Dany and Sansa are the only main female characters, so if a Stark sister is going to have a significant relationship with Dany it has to be Sansa. Arya being constantly downplayed and treated like an accessory to Sansa has generally led to the consensus that her relationship with Dany will be defined by whatever Sansa's relationship (positive or negative) with her is. That's why Arya is always being left out of the "we were robbed of [x] female character friendship" conversations and why theories about Dany/Arya getting along are treated as Sansa hate; Arya, as a character, is seen as secondary to Sansa by a lot of people