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the-littlest-goblin · 3 months ago

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As I’ve alluded to, I think a lot of the failures of c3 can be traced to the fundamental gap that, in a plot where so much revolved around “”the gods”” CR never answers the question:

What the fuck is a god?

Others have made excellent points in how we talk about epic fantasy and the difficulties in fully receiving a world where gods definitively exist. What's interesting to me is that, if you really want to get deep into the philosophical weeds (and I always do), then what does it actually mean when we say "gods exist" in Critical Role?

Disclaimer: this isn't exactly as comprehensive as I would like but what I hoped to articulate in one meta post is more like 2-5 thesis proposals in a trench coat, and I still want the catharsis of yeeting my thoughts into the void so I can finally take a nap. I tried to limit the academia of it all but there's still plenty of jargon, and also a bibliography because I like to show my work.

Short version: Godhood/divinity is a semantic lacuna in the CR's worldbuilding. That's not a bad thing, in fact it's kind of necessary. The problem arises when the plot makes gods and godhood a central problem without resolving or even acknowledging the barriers to understanding those concepts, thus leading to hours of dialogue, plot beats, and a supposedly climactic resolution which all amount to nonsense if you look too closely.

As anyone who’s so much as dipped a toe into philosophy will tell you, you gotta define your usage of terms or the discussion is DOA. On all levels of CR text, words like "god"/"the gods"/"divine"/"deity"/etc. are used interchangeably in so many contexts, and the meaning of those terms is only accessible via contextual implication, and the deducible meanings in so many of those contexts directly contradict each other. C3 especially reveals a dissonance between how the mytho-cultural text approaches divinity compared to the contours drawn by the mechanico-ontological text.1

The former in Exandria refers to "the gods" in terms of the Pantheon, a definite collection of individual entities. These otherworldly beings of Tengar, a realm of pure possibility. But "god" is also a rank within D&D's cosmic taxonomy—a rank to which, in Exandria, other entities can rise via the Rites of Ascension. The Matron is a god same as the others; Tharizdun is part of the pantheon but separate, not of Tengar. Maybe a "god," maybe not?

In the mytho-cultural role "the gods" play in Exandria, their being-qua-being is positioned as necessarily plurally defined and unknowable, but nevertheless possessed of immense "cosmic power" befitting their role in the Creation myth and ongoing worship. It makes perfect sense that the in-world mythology is (intentionally) plural and contradictory. However, as others have pointed out,* Exandria's socio-political and cultural worldbuilding vis a vis religion are (less intentionally, I would imagine) rather underbaked, leaving significant gaps in our understanding of what the gods (and religion) mean for the cultural part of mytho-cultural.

Now let’s get into the latter. Because CR isn't just a narrative—it's a ludonarrative, and the game mechanics have huge ontological implications.1

In the mechanico-ontological sphere, the gods are positioned as sort of exceptions to the rule, by which I mean, like, we don't get stat blocks for deities. Which again, on its own, makes perfect sense! D&D focalizes the PCs, and so on the purely mechanical level, gods/the divine are subordinate, acting only through proxies. This is necessary for the game-narrative D&D supports. Giving god-level power explicit stats would be a catch-22:

first, it would severely demystify "cosmic power"—to define is to limit, after all. Not doing so can imply an ontology where gods are not confined by mechanics—their powers go beyond, their powers are not only unwritten but unwriteable.

secondly, if the rulebooks were to even attempt codifying mechanical abilities on par with the semantic associations of “god-level” power, then it would be very difficult to maintain either the PCs focal role as agents of the narrative or a fairly balanced game, much less both. We saw this play out in Downfall—the point of the mechanics in the final battle outlined the huge disparity between mortals and gods.

Speaking of Downfall—as well as their mechanic and mythic existences, the gods also exist on the narrative level as characters. As such, we must necessarily consider questions of agency and consciousness in qualifying their existence, but fuck if that isn’t a messy question on the one layer, let alone putting it in the contexts of these shifting, intersecting layers.2 Keeping it brief though, the gods’ narrative agency is subject to similar issues as their mechanical powers.**

Being an exception to the rules of mechanico-ontological existence only holds together so long as divinity remains separate from everything governed by mechanics when mobilized in a narrative. I'm not trying to nitpick—Matt's "NPCs are not governed by the same rules as PCs" MO isn't automatically world-logic breaking, and there's a degree of pedantry on that front that is simply unsportsmanlike. But the problem in c3 specifically is that the plot focalizes the gods and divinity as a construct in such a way that invites—demands even—closer inspection. And the coherence between the structural layers of the narrative breaks down quite quickly under this scrutiny.

It's not like c3 brought this theme out of nowhere. Disproving that there is any essential divide between gods and mortals defines the zeitgeist of the Age of Arcanum. The Matron’s ascension proves that, however the difference is defined, the state of being one or the other is traversable. Exu: Calamity brought this up plenty: Laerryn contends that the distinction is access to the Celestial plane, and seeks to dissolve the difference by achieving large-scale interplanar travel for all of Avalir; Zerxus embodies that so called "divine magic" is not strictly tied to a worshipful relationship with a deity.

In c2, god-or-not is a huge element of Jester's arc with the Traveler. Her build shows that, despite the very different class abilities/powers of warlocks and clerics, there is no mechanico-ontological constraining the distinction between a warlock patron and a god. These are roles defined through a relational existence, not in keeping with any essential taxonomy of substances.1 The Traveller’s position in the cosmic taxonomy as an Archfey has less bearing on the type of magic he can grant than the belief and conviction on the side of the grantee. Similarly, there’s the Luxon in all its mystery—a god but not a pantheon deity? Divine but not a god? The semantics seem less and less significant.

Now’s probably a good time to remember that CR is a story, and stories are representative constructions wherein any logic other than narrative logic is secondary. D&D as a story engine allows fictional representation to evoke a unique facsimile of materialism because the diegetic laws of physics are established in such detail via mechanics. But still, in a fictional world, metaphysics kind of are physics, and also kind of are semiotics, and both answer to the symbolic. It's fun (for me) to dig into the worldbuilding using philosophy as a framework, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if the philosophy finds gaps so long as the rest of the narrative elements cohere around those gaps.

In c3, they do not.

Next to c3, c1 gets the closest to leaning too hard against the logical house-of-cards making up cosmic ontology in Exandria due to the importance of the Divine Gate in defeating proto-god Vecna. The Divine Gate is, imo, the material nexus point where all the semantic and ontological contradictions coalesce: it was created so as to specifically block gods from traversing out of the Celestial plane, but is permeable to mortals. Presumably there is some quality or essential substance that decides who can move through it and who can’t—but what is that? What is the substance of divinity, not in the ontological sense but in the materialism of arcana? It’s not something exclusive to denizens of Tengar, because the Matron is also trapped; perhaps “divine” is a misnomer, and it only traps the specific entities designated at the time of its creation, regardless of any shared essential quality? Except no, because Vecna was able to be trapped behind it as well.

On the flip side, the great thing about the Divine Gate is that it encompasses and narratively justifies that catch-22 of divine mechanics by adding the element of time. The gods used to be un-writably powerful Pre-Divergence, hence their cosmic standing, but the Divine Gate limits their powers of acting in the present, allowing for their mechanical impotence. The Divergence and the Divine Gate incorporate the gods’ disparate ontological states into the history of Exandria, a physical and temporal division that allows for these contradictions to coexist in separate corners of the narrative.***

This coheres throughout campaigns 1 and 2—even when c1 started approaching concepts of “divinity” more closely, the plot maintains a separation between mortal stakes and divine stakes. Vecna was Vox Machina’s problem because he posed a threat to mortals; he posed a threat to mortals because he was seeking to achieve god-level power on the mortal plane. We don’t need to know what the “power” exactly means to know it would be a huge imbalance. The threat is nullified by trapping Vecna behind the Divine Gate. We still don’t know what he is vis a vis godhood, but we do know his powers of acting and affecting on the Material Plane are curtailed and as such he’s not mortal’s problem anymore. Compare this to the Bell’s Hells attitudes towards their joint BBEGs of Ludinus and Predathos. Ludinus is the threat on the Material Plane; for much of the campaign, BH cap off cyclical debates on the gods by agreeing that stopping Ludinus is their actionable concern. In the end, however, Ludinus’ rhetoric succeeds in focalizing cosmic concerns: the narrative concludes with the resolution to the questions of ‘what to do about the gods and Predathos,’ reifying Ludinus’ view that the cosmic structure was a problem to be solved (despite the complete lack of supporting evidence to that point). Meanwhile the resolution to the—previously central—question of ‘what to do about Ludinus’ is ‘leave him to his cottage-core Thanos epilogue,’ as though he is not nor has he ever been a primary source of conflict.

I think Predathos is where the irreconcilability of material substance and ontological substance really start to chip away at the foundations of narrative coherence. The “God-eater” must be subject to the same questions re: “so what do you mean by god?” The takeaway is that the Predathos lore is frankly a hot mess of ludonarrative dissonance—perfect illustration for the other side of that catch-22 I was talking about!

In theory, Matt could have introduced Predathos into Exandrian cosmology without it becoming a narrative problem, had it remained at a sufficient distance from the immediate plot to sit comfortably obscured in the same miasma of metaphysical unknowns as the Luxon or Tharizdun. It’s Ludinus and all the discussion surrounding these cosmic entities that shines a glaring spotlight on the contradictions by way of placing the gods into an ethical framework and using that judgement as a basis for praxis. Moral philosophy is not my area, but as far as it intersects with ontology: it is, to put it mildly, very fucking hard to put a subject under ethical judgement when said subject has no defined being as such that it’s very subjecthood is in question.

What I’m trying to say is that you hold a guy in a very different ethical standing than the sun. The Dawnfather is both and can be reduced to neither. He is a character in a narrative with agency and personality and relationships at the same time he is a mechanical construction that has no independent existence and extremely limited powers of acting, and all the while he is semantically presumed all-powerful.

*I can’t find the post now to link it but I’m 99% sure it was by @utilitycaster

**For an illustration of (non-game) narratives where a pantheon of gods explicitly exist, are in possession of a certain cosmic power, and are direct narrative agents, see: Homer. I ran out of steam before getting to the full comparison I wanted to make, maybe I’ll get to that in another post, but trust me when I say it has massive implications—like, ‘requires a totally different method of engagement with the work, one which heavily departs from, and at times directly contradicts, literary and pedagogical tradition since at least the early modern period’-level implications.

***In terms of Pre-Divergence depictions, frankly I need to finish rewatching both Calamity and Downfall (possibly multiple times) to properly incorporate Brennan’s contributions to the text into this consideration. Drive-by assessment though, as it pertains to the main campaigns: we see glimpses of what the gods powers of acting can be without the Divine Gate, both with Asmodeus at the end of Calamity and the final battle in Downfall, to use as a comparison. These are useful for when c3 brings up the possibility for an alternate state of affairs while providing no examples for what those alternatives would entail.

1. Bryant, Levi R. “Substantial Powers, Active Affects: The Intentionality of Objects.” Deleuze Studies 6, no. 4 (2012): 529–43. http://www.jstor.org/stable/45332014.

2. The structuralism I’m employing follows a number of works and theorists, namely Roland Barthes for lit theory and Richard Schechner for performance theory; the most relevant direct citation is Daniel McKay’s book The Fantasy Role-Playing Game: A New Performing Art (2001), which references both of the above and many others.

#critrole #c3 #don't mind me #I'm actually furious that tumblr formatting won't let me do superscript footnotes #cr discourse #anyway cheers to Divergence tonight I will certainly be watching with this lens on standby

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anilyan · 1 month ago

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It’s my birthday, so I’m taking the chance to spread my agenda! ^^

Do you remember what the scribe of Enkanomiya said? “The Primordial One may have been Phanes.” Wouldn’t that confusion be understandable if Phanes both was and wasn’t the Primordial One? Or rather, if was just one part of the Primordial One, aka his soul?

I will argue that Venti is Phanes, and also two things about Phanes (that are technically their own theory):

Phanes is the soul of the Primordial One, just like what Cocouik was to Ochkan

Phanes was created through the Chemical Marriage between the Primordial One and Istaroth

Yes, I am coming back with a refined version of my old “Venti is Phanes” theory, after studying and organizing my thoughts and what I knew about the lore. The old post was pretty messy.

(I actually spent weeks preparing posts about other aspects of the lore, but meanwhile we got the moons web event that kinda ruined my time to shine, along with some leaked artifacts that basically confirmed much of what I was theorizing about, so I missed my opportunity and the things I was about to bring up won’t feel as special anymore. To feel a bit better, I decided to go back to my true agenda - Venti brainrot, that is. But I will still incorporate important lore parts that I studied into this post, and expand on them properly over time.)

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Section 1: What is Phanes? 2 theories:

First, let me remind you of what the book Before Sun and Moon says:

“The Primordial One may have been Phanes. It had wings and a crown, and was birthed from an egg, androgynous in nature. But for the world to be created, the egg's shell had to be broken. However, Phanes, the Primordial One, used the eggshell to separate the "universe" and the "microcosm of the world."”

The next theories about Phanes, that I will present next followed by connecting it with Venti, may be true at the same time:

» Theory 1: Phanes was born from a Chemical Marriage between the Primordial One and Istaroth

Many ties between the PO and Istaroth are obvious, not just because she was very very likely a Shade, but also because she was probably the Moon-themed White Queen to the PO’s Sun-themed Red King, who joined in a Chemical Marriage. That produced the egg/pearl/wtv that birthed Phanes, necessary to the creation of the world.

Please notice that there is evidence that, at some point, Istaroth was the Ancient Seelie who married the Traveler from Afar, but that is not incompatible with the fact that she was bound to the PO first. In fact, I think that the fact that she was likely the Ancient Seelie is a crucial aspect, especially given the crown that she dropped, which in turn was probably the golden-ring artifact created by the Rhine Maidens / moons who confered power to the PO. I have posts about that on the way.

Let me explain. I will summarize what a chemical marriage is (I will eventually make a post fully dedicated to this concept, and to show in detail why all the pairs I mention from genshin fit this doomed narrative).

The chemical marriage / chemical wedding is a concept in alchemy that represents an union of opposites: male and female, sun and moon, gold and silver, sulphur and mercury, body and spirit, red King and white Queen. DON’T mistake this with actual marriages or ship stuff, btw.

It’s meant to produce a new and improved product, the Rebis (an androgynous being, sometimes called the Philosopher’s child), or according to some tales, the Philosopher's Stone. That stone is a mythic alchemical substance capable of turning base metals such as mercury into gold or silver.

(I can’t help but recall that Venus/the morning star, aka Istaroth, in Chinese, is called Jīn-xīng (金星), the golden planet of the metal element - and Istaroth and her rhine maidens/moons/fates are likely responsible for the golden ring/crown mentioned in the drama Der Ring des Nibelungen.)

According to Jakob, the Seal of Chymical Marriage can be used to seal off the source of life, aka the Primordial Sea, which sounds similar to creating a world/pearl/philosopher’s stone/egg/dream bubble that floats in the sea of quanta or wtv is the logic used across Hoyoverse’s worlds. Basically, a necessary process to create the world, or perhaps reshape it and change it to be inhospitable for dragons yet hospitable for humans, essentially what the Primordial One did at the very beginning. In other words, the eggsehll was used to separate the sea, a sea of elements and souls and such that granted shapeshifting and abilities to the dragons, like a sort of hivemind that is incompatible with the individualism of humans. For more info on that, check the Men of Lithin book.

The Chemical Marriage is hinted at by Albedo, through the stages of the Magnum Opus in his Ascension - although in the game, the 2 last stages are swapped, with Rubedo coming before Citrinitas (perhaps to reinforce the goal to obtain gold) in the game.

That process also sometimes involves a dove. It’s in consideration to the 3 parts of a person, body (the king), soul (the seelie) and spirit (the dove), and in Christianity, the dove often represents the Holy Spirit. The marriage is sometimes blessed by a descending dove from starry heaven. The dove sometimes is the one that brings the ring. There are other trinities that can be associated with this.

Last but not least, here are all the pairs I could think of from Genshin that execute this, that I will elaborate in detail on a different post. They are made of a Seelie or prophetic being who shared forbidden knowledge with a King, who tried to save humanity by creating a hivemind, bringing tragedy: Traveler from Afar and Seelie (who may still be Istaroth), Decarabian and Amos, Zhongli and Guizhong, Deshret and the Goddess of Flowers, Liloupar and Ormazd, Remus and Sybilla, Ochkan and Ixlel… and potentially in the future either the Traveler with the Abyss Twin, or the Traveler with Paimon.

We can also compare Istaroth and PO to Chronus and Anake, two serpentine beings who created the egg that birthed the world. But according to some mythologies, what came from the egg was Phanes instead.

It’s technically more complicated than that, here is a list of alternate possibilities I found for his origins:

Phanes hatched from the egg of Chronos and Ananke

Phanes hatched from the cosmic/orphic egg placed in Aether (who was the personification of the bright upper sky and another son of Chronos)

Phanes is a first-born deity who emerged from the abyss and gave birth to the universe, and is a god of creation, light and goodness. The Abyss part is extra intriguing because the world has an abyss half, and some in-game books even compare wine with the Abyss, and also with the idea that drinking the abyss/wine is a way to acquire Forbidden Knowledge - check this video for more on that.

Sometimes Nyx is also involved - she is Phanes counterpart. In some tales, she is Phane’s wife, sometimes his daughter, and in others she creates an egg from which Phanes is born, so wtv. I don’t know who Nyx is (besides being likely The Night Mother from the book of the Six Pygmies), but it’s pretty clear that the Abyss half is under her responsibility in some way.

If you refer back to the quote from the book Before Sun and Moon…:

It doesn’t clarify if Phanes and the PO are the same entity or not, the scribe just decides to treat them as the same. I have my own explanation for it, in the next section precisely, but my answer would be “more or less”

It says that Phanes was birthed from an egg, but then proceeds to give a different purpose to the egg, or at least to the eggshell

Here is my interpretation: The PO and Istaroth created an egg/pearl with a chemical marriage, and Phanes was born from an egg. Once he broke the eggshell to be born, the eggshell was used (unclear if by the PO or Phanes) to change Teyvat, to create the world as it is now: a bubble separated from the rest of the universe by a fake sky, less hospitable for dragons, where Abyssal matter and the Primordial Sea stuff are separated from humans, etc. So technically, yeah, Phanes was involved in at least one step for creating the world, and that guaranteed step was the breaking of the eggshell.

This is not in the book, but in the Gnostic Chorus custcene, there is a black serpent tied surrounding the gnostic/genesis pearl. The pearl and an egg are sort of interchangeable, and according to mythology, Phanes is a figure that has the serpent Ananke coiled around him. So that matches up well.

» Theory 2: Phanes is the Primordial One’s soul, just like what Cocouik was to Ochkan

Och-kan, a half-human half-dragon being who hated dragons, sabotaged the plans of his father (the Sage of the Stolen Flame) by following the human Pyro Sovereign Xbalanque - and, after Xbalanque’s death, forbid people from worshiping either the Night Kingdom or even other gods. In his quest to save humans, he became a Tyrant, whose erratic behavior only got worse after excavations that led him to meet Ixlel.

Ixlel was a prophetic figure that used to lead the dragon civilization of the area in the past, who at first was an ally of Och-kan but, upon sharing secret knowledge and prophecies with him, was betrayed. She got revenge by convincing him to use his draconic nature to power his city, by putting his Soul in the Core of Chu'ulel (who later became Cocuik, freed only much later by Bona, after the Cataclysm). Even after Och-kan was overthrown by rebels, he couldn’t die because of that split between body and soul, and his now fully dragon body was used by his father to be an Abyssal conduit, until the interference of the Traveler in the present.

This story has many more details, and once again matches the concept of Chemical Marriage and prophecies that doom Kings, so you can check my post on the topic for proper details.

There are several similarities between Venti and Cocouik:

Color scheme and overall shape is the same, that was literally what everyone first thought when seeing it

In wisp form, he had 3 wings, or rather, 3 separate parts that didnt even connect to his body, they just floated behind him, sort of like the wings of the twins at the start of the game, and exactly like the 3 wings of Cocouik. And in human form, his Vision has a single wing with 3 parts.

The power that Cocouik displays against the dragon resembles the power that Venti lends to the traveler to use against Dvalin in the flying sequences. That is the power to supress the corrosive power of the Abyss - it’s what Venti uses, and it’s in the description of Cocouik’s ability too

The description of Cocouik also mentions a halo, within which the Traveler is protected form the Abyss, and halos are often associated with angels

So… if all of those things are comparable with Venti, why would the fact that Cocouik is the soul of a dragon not be?

Oh, right, there was a sus leak that broke my mind months ago and seemed completely nonsensical, but since I started cooking this theory, I can’t help but look back at it. It claimed that Venti was the guide of the Primordial One. Humm… yeah, if Venti was the soul of the PO, I could see that. Maybe he is assuming Istaroth’s role now that she is gone in supporting the PO?

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List of EVERYTHING sus and interesting about Venti

Some of the following things will correlate to the theories presented above, while others are just fun fancts that I didn’t know where to place.

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Appearance

» Wings:

I already discussed the relevancy of Venti’s angel form and how that ties with being a Seelie, and potentially cursed at first. But the wings are also relevant for another reason: Phanes is described has having wings.

But there is more:

Both in his fake Vision and in wisp form, he only has wings on one side of his body. Just like Cocouik. Possibly hinting at an incomplete nature, or at a duality of natures (dragon and seelie, or the others I already considered)

The wisp wing is formed sort of by 3 wings/parts, and the same is sort of true for the wing in his Vision. The number 3 might just be a coincidence, but it would also fit well with the connections between a chemical marriage and the involvement of the dove, with that third presence representing how a person has 3 parts, body, soul, and spirit. And I already argued why I think Phanes is the PO’s soul.

It’s also possible that this connects with the idea that angels supposedly have 6 wings. So by just having 3 or 3 parts, that is **half of that, aka half angel/**seelie

Funnily enough, in Archon Form he has a wing at each side, and I can’t fully point why that contrast given the previous 2 cases. It’s similar to what happens to Arlecchino in boss form.

Contrary to what the statues portray, the wings in Archon form don’t connect to his back, instead seemingly fusing with his cloak. In Wisp form, and Cocouik’s case, the wings also didn’t connect. That resembles the wings of the twins at the start of the game, the mechanical wings of The Sage of the Stolen Flame, and the wings of the Seelies/envoys always depicted in murals.

In Archon form, the wings have a circular metallic part further hinting at how the wings might be mechanical/not a part of the body. Besides that, the shape has 3 tips, and strongly resembles the wings of the boss Lord of Eroded Primal Fire / Gosoythoth when imitating the form of the Pyro Sovereign. Once again connecting Venti with dragons, although dragons and seelies are really just variations of the same species.

» Other characteristics:

Phanes is also described as androgynous, which, yeah, Venti definitely is. The androginity also matters in the context of a chemical marriage between a union of opposites, since Phanes is supposed to reunite the trates of both “parents”, and the gender-neutral appearance is not the only fusion relevant here. If he turns out to be part dragon part seelie, that is just as relevant.

One thing lacking in Venti, that Phanes has, is a crown. Not even his Archon form has one, at least, not so far. But some people point out that the base of his beret hat has a golden intricate line that could kinda be interpreted as a mini-crown.

Another interesting point about his appearance is the fact that, in wisp form, the top of his head was shaped like an apple, with even a stem and leaf-shape on top. I will talk about the relevance of apples next.

His whole wisp form heavily resembles Cocouik, the soul of a dragon, and I already went over why that matters in one of my theories. The powers Venti lends to the traveler to shoot against Dvalin also resemble the powers of Cocouik used against Ochkan.

And ofc, he has a Cecilia in his hat, and I will go over the relevance of that.

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“When I first arrived here, I too was like Dvalin, cursed and left to waste”

During the Mondstadt Archon quest, Venti says that "When I first arrived here, I too was like Dvalin, cursed and left to waste".

Here are some guesses of mine that could explain that:

We know that his Archon form presents him as an angel (source: manga, official arts, and in-game arts and statues) and that angels are seelies (thanks to Natlan’s Archon quest). We also know that the Seelies and Moon kingdom fell, probably symbolizing the end of the Unified Civilization, as a consequence of the marriage between a Seelie and a Traveler from afar, who in turn was likely the Second Who Came, who waged war more a less at the same time as Nibelung and his War of Vengeance. Refer to my (future) other theories for more details. What matters here is that, after that event, the Seelies were cursed to lose their minds and original form, thus why they present as we currently see them in-game. And if angels were seelies, that was probably Venti’s fate too, thus why he showed up as a wisp to the bard.

Since he is comparing himself with Dvalin, maybe his curse was instead related with abyssal corruption. We don’t know what happened to the Primordial One who is currently afk, but if Venti was his soul, and considering that Nibelung used forbidden knowledge and maybe even abyssal energy (unsure of how much those two things overlap), perhaps Nibelung tainted the PO in the confrontation.

Alternatively, maybe he was cursed at existence, which could also explain how he somehow got involved with the bard and the rebellion in Mondstadt and possibly didn't have a strong identity before that? If he was derived from the primordial one, and the PO was the Usurper who took the power away from the original dragons, I don’t think it would be unheard of in stories for the off-spring of authority figures to be cursed by those who hated them.

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Knowledge of secret information, and songs of the past, present and future

» About General types of knowledge:

He is the one narrating the Gnostic Chorus cutscene, so he knows about the origins of Teyvat and other important stuff.

He ruled Mondstadt for a long time alongside Istaroth (the Thousand Winds temple was used to worship both of them), so she might have shared relevant knowledge with him from the period of the Unified Civilization, and even from before that.

He knows of others worlds, and titans: "In other, distant worlds…Pangu gave his blood to form the rivers and seas…the gods sacrificed Purusha and cut his body to pieces, and then fashioned all living beings with those parts…the brain of the giant Ymir became clouds. Their sacrifices seeded life in the unliving cosmos. These songs sing of the primeval ones."

In fact, he tells the Traveler about that in the manga prologue, and I don't think none of the things there were discarded - in fact, judging by the element of the traveler (Pyro) in this scene, I and some people speculated for a while that we would return to Mondstadt after Natlan.

» About music - I have a whole post on the importance of music for Teyvat incoming:

He claims to know all songs of the past, present and future, which even denotes knowledge that transcends time, fitting for the son of Istaroth, the Thousand Winds of Time - and also for a Seelie/Angel, which we know he is given his Archon form, who were always prophets.

Istaroth is heavily connected to the moons, who controlled the Fates - past, present, and future - and who were named after song and poetry: Aria, Sonnet, and Canon. The loading screen song, that is the theme of Genshin, is even called Dream Aria. Dream Aria might very well be the Sourcesong that I’m going to elaborate on soon.

Seelies/angels are in turn connected to the moons, and they are at least from the period of the Unified Civilization. They, just like possibly the dragons who originally inhabited Teyvat, know well the value of song. That once again matches with Venti, in part because of his angel archon form, and in part because of how he values song as a way to preserve the truth.

People theorize that Venti is trying to find the Sourcesong, or even knows it already, thus why he knows songs from past, present, and future. According to the Aranara, all songs in the world derive from the Sourcesong, that can diverge into different memories, just like a river diverges into creeks, yet just like creeks eventually flow into the sea, the songs converse.

In other words, that definition might hint at the creation of a hivemind and fusing the souls of the people into a collective conscience, similar to what some God-Kings ended up doing in their attempts at saving humanity and controlling Fate, with Remus being the most relevant since he used the Symphony of Fate to weave the threads, and fates, as if they were strings of an intrument. They only attempted those feats after meeting with Seelies. [Check my future post about Chemical Marriage to see an exhaustive list of all cases of that in genshin]

Venti also canonically states he can read the the rhythmic flow of energy dispersed by the Abyss Order and copy its magic with his lyre - that was how he took down the barriers during the Archon Quest.

His constellation is called Carmen Day, "God of Songs", although in practice that's the title he is less refered as. As 4clover31 on tumblr added: "Carmen also means God's Vineyard, plus, the term Carme or Carmen was used by Romans to reference a poem with a ritual and propitiatory tone."

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Venti’s strength

Funnily enough, I don’t find this point relevant for my theory, because even if he turns out to be the weakest Archon currently, there can be many explanations for that, and that is not indicative of his original strength. So it’s possible that he was extremelly powerful and still the soul/son of the PO, while being weak now.

But here is a list of what the fandom usually points out, and the different sides of the argument:

Venti is currently weak:

That’s what he claims, justifying it by saying that the strength of an Archon depends on how much faith the people of the Nation have in their Archon. Since he doesn’t actively rule Mondstadt, and people are free from his influence, he sort of implies that they don’t believe in his enough and that he his willing to let his powers pay the price for his ideals

He hasn’t showcased particularly strong powers even when Mondstadt was in crisis, or when trying to stop Signora from taking away the Gnosis.

We also know he has been gone for a long time, returning to Mondstadt during the Stormterror crisis, so it’s possible that he hasn’t regained his powers.

Maybe he was strong when returning to Mondstadt at present, but he delivered the Anemo Authority to Dvalin by the end of the Archon quest, so even if he lied initially, he is actually weaker now.

Venti is currently strong:

People who defend this argue by using Venti’s own definition of what grants power to an Archon, basically by pointing out how, in some ways, he is more worshipped than many other Archons, even if he doesn’t use that to rule the people. He has a Church, people in Mondstadt clearly pray to Barbatos and mention him often, and they completely adhere and live according to his ideals

As such, there is no reason for him to have lost the powers he once presented, like when he terraformed the land of Mondstadt and also completely changed its weather (after Old Mondstadt got rid of Decarabian, since at the time Mondatadt was covered in snow)

Consequently, Venti simply pretended to be weak out of respect for the autonomy and independence of the humans

Some people who believe this think he was just pretending until the Gnosis was taken, while others think he handed out a fake Gnosis and didn’t even try to resist Signora, and there is even people who think he lost the Gnosis but that hasn’t affected his powers

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Cecilias

The only characters in the game connected with Cecilias are: Venti, Istaroth (we see that in Ei’s second story quest), and Albedo (a prototype primordial human, who uses Cecilias as his Ascencion material too)

Cecilias were confirmed in an event, and then at the start of Natlan, to represent “the true feelings of the prodigal son”. But that information actually is as old as his announcement, way back in 2019.

An inactive user in this post found that the name Cecilia possibly came from a Latin word meaning "blind", and according to this source, “Cecilia is as much to say as the lily of heaven, or a way to blind men.” SexyPoro also commented that it’s a variant of the word caecus, that can mean other variations of blind, such as Devoid of light, Vague, Aimless, Invisible, Hidden, Secret, Obscure

Fun fact, Caerus, that sounds a lot like caecus, is an alternatively spelling of Kairos, another of Istaroth’s names. Kairos is a Greek god that resembles Hermes, and who needs wind to fly. Guess that might explain why she ruled Mondstadt alongside Venti for a while, like the Mondstadt saying goes, seeds of stories need to be brought by the wind before they can be cultivated by time.

The Saint Cecilia is a virgin martyr in christianity, and the patron of musicians, composers and poets.

Cecilias are also an important symbol in HI3. They are the symbol of the House Schariac, known for Divine Maidens, warriors who have a chance of taking in the Holy Blood. The Abyss Flower in that game, a ‘Divine Key’ and weapon from the civilization’s Previous Era made specifically to kill herrschers, is also a Cecilia. It’s very possible that Istaroth/Kairos turns out to be an expy of HI3’s Cecilia. She’s known for wielding the Abyss Flower.

The closest real life inspiration would be the flower trillium, which represent the Holy Trinity in Christianity, in turn correlated with the chemical marriage (remember when I mentioned the addition of the dove so that the number 3 represented body, soul and spirit? And how those 3 parts are important for parallels between Cocouik and Ochkan?)

Cecilias look a lot like triquetras, once again connected with the Holy Trinity in Christianism, while in Celtic culture it represents the triple goddesses (3 goddesses that function as a whole, like the Moirai or Norse Norns, who in turn are a bit like the Tribbies of HSR and the 3 moons/fates of genshin). Triquetras are a recurring symbol in Genshin.

Everything here hints at the importance of Venti’s birth and lineage. And while he might just be connected to Istaroth and things stop there, and it would be enough to justify that importance, it’s still possible that it means a little more.

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Venti and apples, the fruit of Fate

Here is a list of every connection between Venti and apples that I could find:

In his wisp form, the top of his head is shaped like an apple, including stem and leaf.

He is always asking for apples, even as payment. He also offers them sometimes. He also really enjoys apple cider.

While terraforming Mondstadt, he created the Golden Apple Archipelago

Speaking of golden apples, he literally offers one in one of his birthday arts, and the text that accompanies it is one of the most suspicious things ever: “It is written that there is a whole tiny world hidden inside an apple core. Here, this half is for you. Let's take a stroll in the tiny little world. But remember to keep it a secret because... you're the only one I want to bring there.” Please keep this in mind.

Mondstadt is a land full of apples. There are a few apple trees in Liyue too, and ofc thishas to do with the inspirations behind Mondstadt, so it’s a tenue connection, but still fitting.

Especially in anime, Apples are often depicted as the fruit of Fate (look no further than Mawaru Penguindrum), and in Inazuma, the girl giving Fortune Slips is called Gendou Ringo, with Ringo meaning ‘apple’ in Japanese.

In Sethian Gnosticism, in the Biblical story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, they succumb to the serpent’s temptation and eat the forbidden fruit (often imagined as an apple) from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That is depicted as a good thing, and as the first step towards freedom from Yaldabaoth (a demiurge, chaos entity and false god, who keeps the souls of people trapped in physical bodies).

I can’t help but wonder if the connection with apples means that he has secret knowledge and awareness of fates and the future, and is waiting for someone else to learn it too, to assume control of Fate or to break free.

If he derived from the PO, that would also made him sort of serpent/dragon-like, or at least part dragon part seelie/angel. He is probably holding fate in his hands - and if an apple contains a tiny world, according to what he said, holding it is not too different from holding the Genesis Pearl - once again tying him with the Gnostic Chorus.

The fact that Venti has only offered one half of the apple in his birthday art may connect with the fact that Phanes only rules half of the world, while the other half, potentially the Abyss, belongs to Nix, the Night Mother. It may alternatively connect to the idea of Chemical Marriage and union of opposites, since that seems to be a fundamental pattern in Teyvat, as I already mentioned.

(Thank you to u/HashtagLowElo on reddit for reminding me of this) In Lyney's teaser, when Lyney is sitting at the bard with the drunkard, Lyney took his drink and transformed it into an apple scented wine. As the man closed his eyes to drink it, Lyney transformed it into an apple before talking about the connection between miracles and magic tricks while also going on to hold the moon. So, the apple was somewhat compared to the moon.

The Golden Apple is specifically relevant in mythology. For example, in Greek Mythology, the Golden Apple of Discord was thrown by Eris at the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, leading to the Judgement of Paris and the Trojan War. In the Garden of the Hesperides, golden apples were guarded by a dragon and were part of Hercules' labors. In Irish Mythology, golden apples are depicted on the Silver Branch of the Otherworld.

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Sacramental Wine, Dionysus and Phanes

Some myths say that Phanes was Dionysus (god of wine… amongst other things), or Eros (god of love, yes I’m simplifying), and oh boy isn’t Venti the god of all of that too? Although this is complicated since it has to do with gods being iterations of past gods and such.

Okay, this gets less obvious now. Phanes is a first-born deity who emerged from the abyss and gave birth to the universe, and is a god of creation, light and goodness. The Abyss part is extra intriguing because the world has an abyss half, and some in-game books even compare wine with the Abyss, and also with the idea that drinking the abyss/wine is a way to acquire Forbidden Knowledge.

Let’s keep talking about wine. I have to start by recommending this video by Ashikai that I used for a lot of the info that follows.

Sacramental Wine is consumed after sacramental bread, in celebration of the Eucharist. The Catholic Church maintains that by the consecration, the substances of the bread and wine actually become the substances of the body and blood of Christ, and in genshin, a similar process happens when a being consumes the body/blood of gods - sometimes even inheriting powers and an extended lifespan, although corruption as well.

The different types of liquids/elixirs in genshin can even be compared to real life ones: leyline liquid is nectar, primordial seawater is absinthe, and forbidden knowledge is wine. Refer to Ashikai’s video for explanations on the first two, but regarding wine, in the book A Drunkard’s Tale, a character says: “What you humans call wine, we wolves call the abyss”. I already shared how many things connected to Venti relate to the Abyss, from Cecilias to the origins of Phanes.

Fungi (more specifically, yeast) are required to make wine, for the processes of fermentation, and you can see in the list of game examples below how much fungi are relevant in the process of eucharistic rites and how often they are sacramental, as a way to grant powers or memories. Mushrooms in a circle also form the so-called fairy-rings, and besides the importance of rings in the context of genshin as objects that confer power to god-kings, they are also considered a portal. They are also called witch’s rings.

» Mondstadt and wine

Mondstadt is heavily known for its wines, and not just for the production of it. During the distiling process, the portion of alcohol that evaporates is even callled Angel’s Share, the name of Diluc’s tavern. Angels, or seelies, in turn tend to have alcoholic beverages associated with them (really, watch Ashikai’s video for more evidence).

Wine breewing is also heavily connected to witches, who have strong connections with Mondstadt. The witches are also connected to Venti, as revealed in the second Windblume Festival.

Speaking of witches, I already mentioned how witches’ rings or fairy rings are made of mushrooms and considered portals.

Albedo is a famous alchemist created by the witch Rhinedottir. Alcohol is one of the possible solvents used in alchemy, known as alkahest. In Lulian alchemy, quintessence is a solvent distilled from wine, sometimes called aether. Alkahest is the ascension material used for the sword Cinnabar Spindle, and cinnabar in turn refers to the Rubedo stage of the Magnum Opus. That’s typically the final stage, although genshin swaps it, with citrinitas/gold, but usually the Magnum Opus ties with the Chemical Marriage - you know, the thing I said that created Phanes.

Oceanids are often associated with turning water into Wine. The weapon Dialogues of the Desert Sages supports that idea. The oceanid of Springvale, also sometimes called a fairy, blessed/cursed Diona to always make great alcoholic beverages. Oceanids also strongly resemble Hydro Idolons, and Idolons are the kind of ghost most associated with Istaroth, even being one of the names for the Sin Shades from Enkanomiya.

In the Alchemy Ascension event, conveniently said by Venti while standing with Diona, he says “If alchemy has the power to transform matter… I wonder if it could also be used to turn water into wine?”

Kaeya’s Skewers are soaked in Death after Noon, Kaeya’s favorite drink, and if you check the list of examples, you can see that the medicine for Caribert required drawing water in the early AfterNoon, and it was used to water the mushrooms growing on the body of Caribert’s dead mom. The drink is also made with absinthe. The drink, or Kaeya’s skewers, are also mentioned in many sus quests, like Canotila quest about dissolving people and their memories, and in a dialogue with Xamaran.

» Examples of sacramental food/wine in genshin

The desert is full of such examples, from Apep who got to eat King Deshret after his death to gain his knowledge, to the Consecrated Beasts (”consecreated” even means “blessed”.

Jacob in Fontaine also turned into a Iniquitous Baptist abyssal creature after consuming the flesh of a dragon, and it’s possible that other abyss creatures - not hillichurls - went through a similar process, especially considering how all of them have a type named after religious positions (even mages, since the word comes from “Magi” who was a Zoroastrian priest).

Rukkhashava mushrooms, in CN, are called Rukkhadevata Sacramental Mushrooms. Before the description change, it said that the Akademia Sages consumed them to honor the sacrifice of the goddess, and remember her wisdom, like in a Eucharistic ritual. This mushroom is based on the Reishi mushroom (believed to give immortality in Taoism). Wanderer, who tried to ascend to godhood, and Collei who contains remnants of a snake god, need this as an ascension material.

In the first Caribert quest, we see a red/cinnabar version of these mushrooms. They grew in the body of Clothar’s dead wife, and while mushrooms grow on wood, Norse mythology believes that humans were carved from trees. He also had to draw water in the early afternoon (Death After Noon is the name of Kaeya’s favorite drink) to tend to them, and for the medicine. The medicine for Caribert created from those mushrooms had to be blessed by a god, and it followed a similar recipe to the Memory Recipe taught by the Aranara: a Rukkhashava mushroom variation, a lotus (Kalpalata/Barsam), and a purple flower (Sumeru rose/Yajna grass). It’s a sacramental beverage.

Fun fact, the taxonomic name for the Reishi mushroom is ganoderma, and there are mushroom-like aquatic ascension materials called Sea Ganoderma in genshin. Their description says “In the folktales told in a certain land, these mouthless, noseless creatures are the transformed souls of children who died young.” They are used by Yae Miko (guards a Irminsul tree) and Kazuha (ganoderma really like mapple trees)

Xamaran, the giant mushroom in the Chasm, is often taken as the irminsul tree of the area (it even looks like a dragon tree), or instead as a mushroom growing in the body of the main Irminsul (like how mushrooms grow on trees). The name sounds like Shahmaran, a mythological being from Persian mythology who was half human half snake, and the name can be broken into "queen/king of serpents" - and serpents in genshin are somewhat interchangeable with dragons. There are tales both about the queen and the king. What matters is that in the Queen's tale, her flesh leads to recovery, her broth leads to knowledge, and her extract leads to death.

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Confused timelines and slumbers

I don’t think there are many instances of this, but there are a few examples that fans point of Venti possibly confusing timelines - either because the wind is free from the confines of time, or because of Venti’s connections with Istaroth and even poential prophetic abilities.

One is during Mondstadt’s AQ, when he tells the Traveler to meet at the “usual place” when we have never met him there before.

Another is a voiceover hidden in a menu, where he greets the Traveler with “Ah, Traveler, we meet again! What? You don't remember me? Ahaha, well, allow me to join you on your quest once again.”

He had to dissapear and go into slumber multiple times, usually after seemingly using a lot of his power: some time after establishing new Mondstadt and making sure that the humans got it (we see him waking up in the manga and realizing how corrupt the aristocracy had become), some time after helping Vennessa win and form the Knights and still taking some time to raise Dvalin, and after the fight against Durin. People theorize it’s only after moments where he spends lots of power, but since we don’t know the exact circunstances that made him go to slumber for the first 2 examples, it’s hard to say.

There was an old reddit post by u/ahellbornlady (thank you to Jolita_Bonita on ao3 for finding it for me) that even theorized that Venti met the Traveler not in some kind of past life/time that was reset - I have seen people theorize that too but it's not really what I believe - but rather in dreams, since they were both in slumber after the Cataclysm. It's even possible that the poem that Venti shares during the first Windblume event - that changes in CN depending on the gender of the Traveler, proving it's about them - was about how they met. It has some interesting verses like "Who was it that stroked your bloodied, determined visage. By stream flowing small, by boulder standing large." and "Who was it that embraced your weary yet noble soul, in dreams deep, in skies soaring." I have an upcoming post about dreams too.

He also wakes up in this location in the manga, that strongly resembles a location shown in the trailer of the anime, so people guess it will be important. The location even shares one of the symbols of Venti and Istaroth (edited pics from https://x.com/Yivvee/status/1899111907627516062/photo/2).

This also looks a lot like a portal, which is interesting considering that the base of his big statue has inscribed at the base "Gateway to Celestia" (thak you to 4clover31 on tumblr for the reminder)

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Illusions, fake identities and lots of pretending

Voicelines from Archons say “About Venti” instead of “About Barbatos”, although all other gods are refered to with their god name. There are exceptions in the patterns of speaking about the topic from the archons, for example Furina is an obvious exception, Nahida never met the other archons, etc... Still, when mentioned, he is never called Barbatos. Even Neuvilette calls him Anemo Archon.

Even in the Archon quest, in the same conversation where he tells us about allogenes and Gnosis after the confrontation with Signora, Paimon says that the “Tone-Deaf Bard is just one of the many Barbatos incarnations” - I wonder if the CN text says this as well...

He doesn't currently use Barbatos' Lyre. Now, that might just be because he is pretending to not be Barbatos, and consequently he couldn't just demand it from the church, as we have seen to an extent in the Prologue. But there might be more to it, since he could have just opted to take that lyre with him or hid it somewhere else before going into slumber, instead of delivering it to the church. So what if that is not his lyre (it could be from the Nameless Bard, or from Istaroth), or what if it is the Lyre of Barbatos but he is just a fragment of Barbatos?

Celestia also doesn't seem to like him (Voiceline Mora about Venti - IV). Could it be because he refuses to take the throne? Because it just doesn't approve of his behavior and attitude? Or maybe because he isn't fully Barbatos? And yet, his bigger statue in Mondstadt has incribed at the base "Gateway to Celestia"...

He has shown his illusion abilities by faking the repair of the Lyre right before Signora showed up to steal his Gnosis, which makes some people believe that the Gnosis he gave away was fake.

Winking. He is always winking. In most official arts, and very often in-game too. Why would that be relevant? Because eyes, especially having eyes covered/closed, are very significant in genshin and hint at the ability to perceive the truth instead of the illusion/dream created by the Irminsul. Check my future post about patterns in the Hoyoverse for more info - I will try to list every example there, from Kaeya’s legacy, to fictional Fischl, God-Kings and their artifact sets, and ofc Irmin. He might not be immune to the Irminsul changes, but he certainly tries to combat that with stories.

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Queen Gnosis

Arguably the most important piece in chess, not counting the King and its limitations, and it’s also the piece that Venti had (maybe still has, depending if the theory that he gave away a false Gnosis to Signora is correct or not)

Funnily enough, some connect the chess queen's fluid movement to the moon’s shifting cycles, and queens were often linked to fertility and cosmic balance, just like moons were.

It might also be a hint to him currently representing Istaroth’s role in her absence.

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Dissapearances for long periods, Death and Leylines

In the Orphic tradition, Phanes is said to be a dying and resurrecting god, killed by the Titans who devoured his flesh but rescued by Athena and resurrected by Zheus. Maybe, to which extent, we could correlate the Titans (Athena and Zeus) to the dragons, Istaroth and the Primordial One.

Venti dissapears for long periods of time, and dying and resurrecting could be a way to explain that.

Dionysus, the god of wine - who, like I mentioned before, is often equated with Phanes - dies at the hands of the Titans, and that has been considered the central myth of Orphism. I elaborate more about Orphism, and specifically Orpheus, in a following section.

Dionysus was the patron god of the Orphics, who they connected to death and immortality, and he symbolized the one who guides the process of reincarnation. That strongly resembles Venti’s ability to help souls pass… to wtv is the place of the souls, Irminsul or something, like he did in his story quest, and that is likely what allows souls to reincarnate in Teyvat as well.

Unsure how that works exactly, but Istaroth and Venti definitely have some strange connections with death and leylines. And since this post is about Venti and not his mom, let’s also not forget that he shines in the leyline color multiple times too. In fact, his Archon outfit has more blue than exactly green, and same for his wisp form, although that might be an extension of angels being seelies.

It’s fairly known that the artifact categories correspond to the Primordial One and the 4 Shades, and one of them is the Plume of Death. It’s usually associated with Ronova, the Shade of Death, but even so Venti is heavily associated with feathers. Even in Natlan, those who carry an ancient name have it engraved in a feather-shaped obsidian toten, in turn having connections to the Night Kingdom.

Venti and Istaroth are mostly associated with Cecilias, but they also have some light connections with dandelions - more specifically, Venti is the only anemo character that dandelions are drawn towards after being blown, and the parts that fly are basically seeds of dead flowers. That ties in well with their quote about “seeds of stories” (in other words, the memories of people), and their connections with leylines and souls of people who passed on. In Teyvat, souls are often refered to as flowers in metaphors (I will expand on that in a future post about symbols in the game).

Venti also has a few connections with Windwheel Asters, basically stars (and Aster is also the beginning of Astaroth, one of the inspirations behind Istaroth). And stars and constellations are in turn heavily connected to the fates of people in Teyvat.

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Similarities to Orpheus the Bard

For the Greeks, Orpheus was a legendary bard, and the founder and prophet of the so-called "Orphic" mysteries.

He perfected the lyre invented by Hermes. Venti also probably perfected the lyre of the bard, and (noticed by 4clover31 on tumblr) in the Chasm there is a letter that mentions his lyre: "Not if my destructive self were made to be the lyre of Barbatos".

The suffering and death of the god Dionysus at the hands of the Titans has been considered the central myth of Orphism - and I already mentioned before how Dionysus and wine and all of that have their own connections to Venti. There is also the fact that Phanes belongs to the Orphic myth as well, although as a different entity: Dionysus at most, but not Orpheus.

Besides the bard and lyre aspects that clearly match Venti, the fact that Orpheus was a prophet is also very fitting since, as I mentioned before, Venti knows the songs of the past/present/future, and is probably a prophet given how Seelies/Angels always are.

So I propose that Orpheus corresponds to Venti’s bard identity, that he takes to avoid assuming the role of an Archon, while Dionysus/Phanes correspond to his Barbatos aspect.

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Compiling Abyss Connections

Look, most of this section are things mentioned in others, I just wanted to point out that there is a not insignificant number of connections between Venti and the Abyss... And I also didn't know where else to include the Inverted Statue.

The Abyss Order uses an inverted Venti Statue, for their ritual in one of the Archon Quests. Could just be coincidence, but with the ritual in Liyue, it would make more sense to use a statue of Morax

One of the potential origins of mythology Phanes says he emerged from the Abyss

Venti gives us one half of the apple in that birthday art I mentioned - the other half possibly represents the Abyss

He is always drinking wine, and wine is called Abyss by the wolves

He can understand the music of Abyss creatures, even using it to dispel barriers in the prologue

The Abyss Flower and Divine Key in Honkai 3rd is a Cecilia

It's possible that he hasn't even been to Celestia, or at least seems to indicate he isn't wanted there, although that voiceline can be interpreted in many ways

I will just mention how in the recent 5.6 stream art he is mostly in the shadow - tenue connection, but still

You know the "purifying abilities" of the Traveler, that have the great side effects of healing the beings they target, that are now understood as the Traveler just absorbing the abyss taint for themselves? Venti has multiple times displayed similar purifying abilities, like when lending powers to the Traveler to fight Dvalin (again, like Cocouik), healing Xiao with his music, and maybe more that I forgot.

Check the proof/pictures for these things in sections above

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Mondstadt

Mondstadt, the fairytale land with connections to every part of Teyvat (the Prologue was literally used to introduce everything, and every character there is representative of future content). I couldn’t leave out the Nation that Venti is an Archon of.

First, let’s talk about the period before Venti’s Archonhood, while he was just a wisp caught up in Old Mondstadt:

Decarabian was a participant of the Archon War - but what exactly motivated him?

The Archon War: It took place right after the fall of the Unified Civilization when Archons were the solution necessary to help stabilize Teyvat after the disasters brought by the War of Vengeance. Decarabian’s opponent was Andrius/Boreas, who likely came from Snezhnaya, and brought snow and blizzards to all of Teyvat. Mondstadt was completely covered in snow.

The safety of humans: To keep the humans in Mondstadt safe, especially from the cold, Decarabian enclosed them in a wind barrier (some, like the Lawrence Clan and possibly the Gunnhildr Clan not yet named that at the time, managed to leave the city). He micromanaged the city, forbid rebellious songs (although the CN version of Venti’s retelling implies that he only accepted hymns), and his winds were so strong that they forced people to bend their backs. He mistook that as respect, unaware that the humans resented him, which later led to their revolution to take down their god.

All for a Dream: Becoming a Tyrant in an attempt to protect humanity is not the only similarity he shares with other God-Kings. He was trying to attain a Dream, possibly another hivemind project - according to Fragment of Decarabian’s Epic, "If it were not for the song of freedom that shattered the city in an instant, Decarabian's dream would have gone on forever.” He might even have something akin to Deshret’s mausuleum or projects from other god-kings under his tower, the only location in the whole game that, if we try to access it, makes Paimon say something different than the usual: “Watch out! Don't go near there!”. In the cutscene of his death, he looks like a Sun when exploding, further connecting him to sun-kings or red-kings. Something something eternal dream and hiveminds.

Besides his goals, his appearance might also connect him to God-Kings.

We never see his appearance - possibly because Hoyo intends to show he was a dragon or had draconic features, which would make sense given that his tower has arches big enough for a dragon, a floating platform above, and was chosen by Dvalin as a nest. More likely than not, he even had the Authority of Anemo and was a Dragon Sovereign - not just because he was the God of Storms, but because he was associated with a divine throne that was destroyed during the rebellion. That has been officially confirmed now in this post (check pics below), but that was actually never hidden. The og ENG translations were simply bad, and replaced throne with crown for the purpose of rhyming, but you can see that this fan translation by dkniade pointed that it said throne in CN, along with mentions to a god’s seat.

ENG translations also still call Decarabian of Anemo Archon, which is simply incorrect because the Archon War wasn’t over yet, but maybe that was because they mistook it as Anemo Sovereign?

Amos was also far more important han people realize:

It’s unclear how Decarabian met Amos - maybe under his tower, closer to Leyline stuff? - but she was almost certainly a Seelie.

Amos became Decarabian’s lover who later joined the rebellion against him.

Her appearance, white white hair and blue clothes, already gives some slight seelie and moon themes.

She was the only member of the rebellion with a name (Either because the name of other members was forgotten to history, or maybe something more significant, like them rejecting their names and the roles they represented, or maybe names in Old Mondstadt were just the things people did, like being a Bard. I’m not counting last names, since we have those).

She had prophetic dreams, as you can see in her quotes in Amos’ Bow, and the biblical figure of Amos was a prophet - and Seelies were prophets too.

Seelies also often sided and protected humanity, which is what she did by joining the rebellion. Players often assume that she was human because of the dreams she had for humanity, but nothing actually states that.

Last but not least, she might have been the one who killed Decarabian (again implied in her bow), and it probably takes a non-human powerful being to do so.

What about the other characters involved?

Like I said before, the others had no names, only last names at most. Possible exlanations: 1) the name of other members was forgotten to history 2) they rejected their names and the roles they represented (since we know how names are tied to a person's fate in Teyvat) 3) maybe names in Old Mondstadt were just the things people did, like being a Bard 4) names were possibly hidden to hide their identities from the Irminsul

The rebels came up with the Windblume tradition, although it had a different meaning back then

Nameless Bard: We don’t know much about the Nameless Bard… but he was the rebel who led the rebellion, and whose form Venti took after once he died, due to being a dear friend of Venti. He had a Cecilia pinned to his chest, which is relevant. His lyre was different from the typically large lyres of the time, as mentioned in the description of the teapot lyre. I can’t help but wonder if he is a reincarnation of other rebels from history: The young man (probably an Alberich, but that’s another theory) from the period of the Unified Civilization, that was possessed by the Traveler From Afar and went to the Ancient Seelie to free her. It’s possible that he later reincarnated into story Ajax (the one who ended in Hyperborea) drawn by vague memories of the seelie he once loved. My other guesses, besides the Nameless Bard, are the Crimson-Eyed Youth who rebelled against Och-kan. I am undecided if currently he is represented by Alice or Childe, to be honest - in part because Idk to which extenct we should separate the identities of the female Traveler from Afar and the male figures she possesses.

Red-haired warrior: He was a traveler who wasn't from Mondstadt (no idea how he managed to enter), and he was with the bard when he died in the cutscene. He is potentially an antecedent of the Ragnvindr family, but it's not certain, since he left Mondstadt after the death of his friend.

Gunnhildr: The Gunnhildr clan wasn't called that at the time - it changed name in her honor after she was a hero in the rebellion. But before all of that, she and her clan managed to leave the city and, when suffering in the cold outside, she prayed, somehow manifesting or attracting Venti. It's unclear when did she return to the city or how, but we see her in the final battle in the TCG card.

There are mentions of figures from other clans that were involved, like Lawrence members and the Imulaukr Clan.

Andrius: After Decarabian was taken down, Andrius realized he wasn’t fit to rule humans and became a ghost, the rebellion leader was dead, so was Amos, and the red-haired warrior felt hurt and left. So the Archon position went to Venti, who took the form of his friend and terraformed Mondstadt, but didn’t take the Divine Throne. That might be the actual reason why he is the “weakest of the archons” if that really is true. He also tried to not exert authority over humans.

Official translation vs Literal fan translation vs Recent official post

Alright, and what about present Mondstadt?

Aristocracy period: Venti ruled Mondstadt alongside Istaroth for a while, with the Temple of the Thousand Winds dedicated to the worship of both. It’s unclear when Istaroth was forgotten by time, and why Venti had to get into slumber, but he was gone for a long period and, when he woke up, the Aristocracy of Mondstadt (especially the Lawrence Clan) had become arrogant, betrayed its principles, and abused their power to crush the freedom of people. The temple was converted into a fighting Arena, much was destroyed (including the original library), and Natlan’s refuggees (Vennessa’s tribe) was turned into slaves and gladiators. Venti helped fix that and, after realizing that full freedom could backfire, established the Knights of Favonius and the Four Winds, with Venessa as part of both groups.

Dvalin: It is unclear when exactly Dvalin and Barbatos met, but the poet in Breeze Amidst the Forest (implied to be Venti himself) says it occurred in "ancient times, when the gods walked among us in their prime." This puts their meeting somewhere between Barbatos' ascension 2600 years ago, and his departure from Mondstadt between 2000 and 1000 years ago. Venti helped people realize that the dragon didn’t pose any danger, and raised Dvalin, teaching him to speak the human tongue. It’s very possible that Dvalin is a reincarnated Anemo Dragon Sovereign, and that Venti entrusted the Anemo Authority to him. 500 ago, during the cataclysm, Venti and Dvalin fought against Durin’s attack, Venti had to go into slumber and Dvalin got poisoned. Mondstadt’s Prologue was all about about helping save Dvalin from Abyssal corruption and show to the people of the present that he is still a good dragon.

Mondstadt and witches: The witches deserve their own post, but it’s really interesting how they have such strong ties to Mondstadt, with two witches even taking residence there temporarily (Rhinedottir somewhat, and Alice). The second Windblume Event took us to the floating island where the witches used to reunite over tea, and for the first time told us about the members of the Hezenxirkel. It also told us of how they at some point challenged the Anemo Archon, for unknown reasons, but he befriended them instead. Interesting detail: In the cutscene about the witches, there is a moment that display’s Istaroth’s star, the same that is the symbol of Khaenri’ah - I have a post about Istaroth and that symbol almost ready too, so I won’t elaborate here, so points for another connection between witches-khaenri’ah-istaroth-venti. The Imaginarium Theater, a domain from the witches outside of space and time, also has a portal in Mondstadt. Oh, and the summer events are always connected to Mondstadt AND the witches.

Mondstadt and Wine: I already have a whole section about that, but it’s definitely no coincidence. It connects to witches, it connects to the Abyss, it connects to seelies (Angel’s Share), it connects to so many things… please go read my section if you haven’t.

Abyss: The portal is located in Musk Reef - one of the areas terraformed by Venti after he ascended, that was previously he tip of the tallest snowy mountain, known as Pilos Peak. Currently, the island looks suspiciously like multiple moons overlapping (that symbol that everyone went crazy over after the recent web event, despite being present in the game for a while). Its structure is divided into the "Abyss Corridor," which connects worlds (Teyvat was disconnected from other worlds, or at least that’s what the Legend of the Shattered Halberd book implies), and the "Abyssal Moon Spire," which leads to the unknown (possibly the same spire created by the Seelie Ancestor). In each level, we collect stars.

Flowers: Some of the flowers prominent or exclusive to Mondstadt have very interesting meanings. I already went over Cecilias, so go read that section because it’s huge; Dandelions represent wishes that are carried over to the Anemo Archon when blown, but their seeds can also represent the souls and stories of people, which in a way is almost intercheangeable given how the wishing screen kinda grants us the souls of campanions; Windwheel Asters represent stars, also very relevant for Genshin given the constellation system; Lampgrass only glow at night, so they are part of the series of flowers that change with the moon; Roses don’t seemingly exist in Mondstadt, yet two characters (Lisa and Noelle, and Rosaria has thorns in her attacks) wear them, and associated with secrets in Monds (see Noelle Hangout), and are in the cover of a big chunk of fairytales.

Gateway to Celestia (thanks to 4clover31 on tumblr for the reminder): The base of Venti's massive statue in Mondstadt has inscribed at the base "Gateway to Celestia" - people have translated and figured that out from the very beginning of the game.

Eyes of Storm, Istaroth and the Nameless Island: Idk where I'm going with this but it's interesting how, although Eyes of Storm are primarily featured in Mondstadt, the Statue of the Omnipresent God in Inazuma that many people theorize to be a depiction of Istaroth has a necklace shaped like an Eye of Storm. See this image edited by CatWithBlueHat. The quests where we first learned about Istaroth/The Thousand Winds of Time also included Eyes of Storm. (thank you to 4clover31 on tumblr for reminding me of this)

The important citizens of Mondstadt: There’s just so many that I have to break this in parts, but I really don’t like it when people dismiss Mondstadt, because everything there was a well-done setup to future content:

Kaeya is one of the few Khaenri’ah survivors, and from the Alberich dynasty no less, who not only took control of Khaenri’ah after King Irmin felt “indisposed”, but also was important far before that, being possibly one of the oldest lineages of Khaenri’ah;

Diluc is strongly connected with the Fatui, that he opposes, and with a secret organization that is probably the Hexenzirkel, judging by the cups in his mansion, Angel’s share and several other hints;

Jean is a descendant of Old Mondstadt, more specifically, of the original Gunnhildr who through her wishes attracted wisp Venti, and she is alsoboth the Dandelion Knight and the Lionfang Knight;

Rosaria has lived with bandits since childhood, was found by Varka and put in the church, and she isn’t a very faithful nun. More importantly, some people suspect she is originally from Nod-Krai - she is canonically from a mountain village and the bandit gang has endured freezing cold.

Albedo is an homunculus created by Rhinedottir, a witch, through Khemia, that he also practices, and he is technically Durin’s brother and adopted into Klee’s family;

Klee is Alice’s daughter and might very well become a super strong witch herself, and she also inherited Alice’s book;

Mona is Barbeloth’s apprentice and therefore can read fates, and another powerful witch;

Lisa is another powerful witch who was invited to be part of the Hexenzirkel (she declined), who also knows many truths and secrets;

Eula is a member of the aristocracy who goes against her family, and was taught by Amber’s grandfather;

Amber has a grandfather from Liyue, who dissapeared;

Fischl/Amy cosplays book Princess Fischl, who likely represents Istaroth and is from books written by the suspicious Mr.Nine, the author whose codename is A., so probably by Alice;

Razor has ties to Sumeru family, and his story introduced us to Boreas/Andrius;

Bennet was likely found in the Mare Jivari, a destroyed region in Natlan where wind doesn’t blow, and his bad luck is probably an extension of the curse that people from Natlan had before the Archon Quest, that prevented them from leaving the region because of Leyline issues;

Diona was one of the first characters we saw that displayed atavism (regressive animal traits), along with her whole family, and she also introduced us to the concept of fairy oceanids, and their connections with wine.

Sucrose is another character with atavism, likely a fox, and foxes are important on their own even with fairytale connections like the tale of the dandelion sea. She is another alchemist.

Noelle is very unsuspicious, but it’s interesting that she wears roses, and the fact that those flowers mean secrets in Mondstadt was even highlighted in her Hangout quest;

Mika and Barbara don’t seem to have anything weird going on.

Varka is out in an expedition with most of the Knights of Mondstadt, and will definitely be an important character too;

Dahlia is another upcoming character who will likely be important, given his leaked appearance with horns and unconventional traits for a deacon.

✦•······················•✦•······················•✦

That's it. My goal was to write the most extensive and in-dept post about Venti possible - you guys tell me if I succeeded and if this makes sense xD

I think I did, because reddit told me this

#venti #genshin venti #genshin theory #genshin #genshin impact #venti theory #istaroth #phanes #primordial one #mondstadt #genshin lore

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trothplighted · 4 days ago

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I was going through some of Rowling’s old interviews and came across one in 2004 where she spoke of Sirius:

“I am so proud of the fact that a character, whom I always liked very much, though he never appeared as much more than a brooding presence in the books, has gained a passionate fan-club.”

This wasn’t the only time she expressed surprise that Sirius became a fan favourite, and it’s honestly baffling to me??? He had an entire book named after and primarily revolving around him, and is canonically the closest thing to a parent that Harry, the protagonist of the series, ever had. Even if we disregard everything else we know about Sirius and his storyline, there’s no way in hell he wasn’t going to be popular. If I didn’t know better, I’d have said that a character like that was specifically designed for fan service (I mean...he's hot, has a flying motorbike, and is literally named after a star, lol). It’s bizarre that Rowling seems to have had no idea, and that she believed he was / intended him to be nothing more than a “brooding presence” in the series – which is at any rate an appalling and deeply unsympathetic way to describe his trauma and depression.

It made me think of how there's such a major disconnect between authorial intent and authorial execution when it comes to his character as well, especially in Order of the Phoenix. Characters like Molly or Hermione call him irresponsible/reckless/immature, claim he confused Harry and James, that he treated Harry like a friend rather than a godson, that he was biased against Snape, etc. Rowling’s interviews confirm that she intended to characterize Sirius in such a way and that Hermione and Molly are meant to be viewed as her mouthpieces. But Sirius’s actual behavior and relationship with Harry does not correspond with any of this and his actions + dialogue are for the most part very reasonable and sympathetic. (There’s also Kreacher’s storyline, which made me dislike Sirius a lot when I was younger, but upon my reread comes across as almost entirely nonsensical, contradictory, and seems specifically designed to paint Sirius in a bad light to the point where he’s compared to VOLDEMORT of all people by Hermione - who, in the process of criticizing Sirius, dehumanizes house elves entirely by claiming that none of them are capable of individual morality or have any ethical agency of their own. It's frustrating because she's 100% right that house elves should be freed but the way she infantalizes them is...pretty shitty and not the way to go about it. But I digress.)

Rowling seems to have done a complete 180 degree turn on how Sirius is presented by the narrative between Goblet of Fire and Order of the Phoenix, and I can’t really understand why.

I get the sense that the creation of Sirius’s character in particular was, at the very least, partly accidental on Rowling’s part. She didn’t expect him to blow up the way he did, and I get the sense that she doesn’t seem to have been thrilled by how much the early HP fandom liked/valorized him. There was an interview where she was asked if she liked him, and she said that she did, only to immediately list down all his alleged flaws and emphasize that “I do not think he was wholly wonderful” (which character in the series is wholly wonderful, lol? Sirius came across as a great deal better than most to me). There have been so many other interviews where she’s done the same thing despite the fact that Sirius's faults or perceived faults had absolutely nothing to do with the questions at hand. It’s such a startling contrast how she talks about pretty much everyone else from his generation, all of whom she seems considerably warmer and more sympathetic towards in varying degrees.

As I haven’t been back in the fandom for very long, this is the first time I’ve come across her interviews - I’m not sure if I’m reading too much into them or not. I wondered if you agree/disagree, as you’ve been in the fandom for much longer and I love all your metas about the series. Thanks :)

You’ve hit upon my personal Rage Point for the entire series, anon.

I want to start by pointing something out about Sirius and Kreacher, which is that in GoF Sirius tells Ron and Harry (and Hermione, though he brings it up to compliment her observational skills) that Crouch Sr.’s mistreatment of Winky is an indicator of his character. (“If you want to know what a man’s like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors, not his equals.”) This is, somehow, the same man who one book later is egregiously dismissive of and abusive toward his family’s house-elf, to the point that this dismissal causes his death (oh, and Albus blames him for dying, too.) Despite Sirius expressing two wildly different viewpoints from book to book, we’re intended to take that as his true self, as the authentic expression of his beliefs and position.

I’ve spoken before more than once about other drastic character shifts that happened as a result of the Three Year Summer, both as a writing break and as a paradigm shift in the notoriety of and ubiquity of the series thanks to the movies being released starting in 2001. I was in elementary and middle school while the books were being published, and OotP was the first book I remember seeing large-scale advertisement for in my school outside of a book fair - there was a big larger-than-life poster teasing the book cover with a release date during the summer to get us all hyped up for it. I’d obviously heard of Harry Potter before that, but that was the moment when the books went from “famous book series” to “cultural phenomenon,” at least in my mind. And I think that we can trace this shift in opinion on Sirius Black back to the Three Year Summer, too.

In my opinion it’s obvious that Joanne really liked Sirius, when she first developed him. I don’t think she’s telling the truth when she says she doesn’t think he’s wholly wonderful - when she first came up with him she absolutely did. He’s got pride of place as a Cool Character in all the ways she loves to lavish attention on someone. He’s set up with a phenomenal entrance in PS chapter one and then he spends all of PoA in the spotlight. He has a dramatic reveal of his true allegiances and his innocence, and he’s Harry’s best and most supportive parental figure throughout GoF who consistently gives good advice and who risks his own life and liberty to make sure his godson is safe. He considers coming back to England and living in a cave and eating rats to be his duty as a godfather, and while Harry feels responsible for his circumstances he’s always really clear that he (1. doesn’t care about the risks to his health and safety (2. will gladly sacrifice comfort and stability if it means being able to protect this boy (3. will not let Harry feel guilty.

These aren’t the actions of a man who confuses Harry with James - throughout GoF he continues to insist that his decisions are his own, made as an adult trying to parent and support a kid who desperately needs a stable presence in his life. Harry’s used to taking the blame for the actions of adults (my heart is still rent asunder by his expectation that Lupin is going to gaslight him about denying him the chance to face the boggart in their first DADA lesson) and he’s also used to feeling like he has to manage the emotional state of a household (see: all the times he plans out what to say or not to say to the Dursleys to get them to do what he wants), and Sirius doesn’t let him sink into either of those pits. He also prevents Harry from bottling up his feelings or concealing his distress, and never lies or twists the truth. He’s being very deliberately written as someone who serves as a positive role model and positive mentor figure for Harry, and then suddenly come OotP he’s moody and immature and subject to a number of very strange smear campaigns from characters the author confirms are intended to reflect her real opinions.

So… what happened, over the course of the Three Year Summer, to make her change her mind? We can’t ever know for sure, obviously, because Joanne hasn’t ever bothered to lay out how her feelings on each member of her cast changed and evolved, and she’s unlikely to do so at any point in the future because now when people talk to her they mostly talk to her about transphobia. But I have a theory.

See, between 1998 and 2003, the HMS Wolfstar set sail. While most of the seminal meta came out after OotP (see “The Case for R/S” as probably the one I and others my age are most familiar with as an introduction to the ship) and most of the really famous fanfics started trickling out around that time (The Shoebox Project started in 2004), there were fanfics before that point, a growing fan community, and a number of pieces of fanart and fancomics (check out the list of doujinshi in the linked Fanlore article, some of those date back to 2001). Edit: here is an archived humorous/gently snarky list of Wolfstar fanfic tropes created in 2002 - while I can’t personally remember the names of fics from before 2004 or so I want to point to this as evidence that there was an established fan community, even using the “WolfStar” name, prior to the publication of OotP.

Normally, I wouldn’t think that fanfic from prior to 2010 or so had much of anything to do with the author’s opinions on their work, because norms and fan culture around fanfic were much more focused around keeping these stories private and away from the prying eyes of The Powers That Be/TPTB.

I say normally, because Joanne was aware of fanfiction, and aware of fanfiction remarkably early in her career as a public figure.

Younger fans are almost certainly not going to know this, but one of the first real fandom divides in HP had to do with fanfiction, and specifically the question of how to treat fanfiction written by and for adults that featured sex scenes or other mature content. Since the books were children’s books (though there was an adult fandom since the start, especially online - the Harry Potter For Grown-Ups/HP4GU mailing list and its descendant communities still loom large in fan history as some of the early pillars of today’s digital scene) a lot of people didn’t know what to do or how to treat fanfic. This was also compounded by fanfic being a lot more subject to legal action or takedown notices - Anne Rice, Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, and Anne McCaffrey all became infamous either for pursuing individual authors and archives until they took down their stories or instituting guidelines about what kinds of transformative works were acceptable, or both in McCaffrey’s case.

Rowling, however, was different. Rowling said that noncommercial fanfic was completely fine, that she wasn’t going to pursue any kind of legal action against fanfic authors, and that as long as adult-oriented fanfic was appropriately warned for and not shown to or targeted to children, she didn’t care if it existed.

This laid the groundwork for the founding of Fanfiction.net, for fanfic communities on LiveJournal, and eventually for Archive of our Own and the Organization for Transformative Works. In an era where legal disclaimers were common on fanfics as a mostly-useless attempt to prevent being shut down by IP holders, Rowling threw the doors open and democratized her stories in a way she - I would argue - ultimately came to regret.

I can’t prove that her sudden slander of Sirius was a result of latent unexamined homophobia and a desire for revenge against the fandom for daring to claim one of her favorite characters as a gay man. I can’t prove that his backstory of being kicked out of his house (for unspoken Family Drama reasons centering around him being filthy and disgraceful) only to be shoved back into it, or Trustworthy Adults suddenly painting him as dangerous to children and inherently irresponsible and reckless, or all of his trauma being ignored and painted over, or every scrap of his heroism being erased, has to do with Joanne deciding that if we’ve made him gay he shouldn’t get to be a character anymore.

I can’t prove it.

But I do believe it. I believe it because when you ask yourself “is this queercoded character being subjected to authorial homophobia”, suddenly everything about Sirius’s arc in OotP makes complete and total sense in the worst way possible. This is also why I think Tonks and Remus were paired off, why Tonks suddenly becomes more gender-conforming, and why Bill Weasley transforms into Normal Settled-Down Hetero William. It feels like her desperate attempts to take her characters and shove them back into a box that she controls. I don’t think she was at that point consciously and virulently homophobic, but I think her clear and evident discomfort with fans interpreting these characters who she wanted to be straight comes through in her writing.

I also believe it because she does the same thing to Albus, after his death. Someone who’s been uncomplicatedly heroic and praised by all parties and even used as her mouthpiece to pass judgment on Sirius suddenly becomes morally suspect and untrustworthy and shady and secretive, with enemies lining up as soon as he’s dead to slander him - and again, just like with Sirius, we’re meant to accept this as the correct version of events. He even confirms all of this to Harry himself in the King’s Cross afterlife. The old Albus can’t come to the phone right now, he’s dead, and only his critics remain. Coincidentally, Albus is of course the only confirmed gay character in the entire story. Funny how that works out, isn’t it?

I’ve been angry at her for 20 years for killing Sirius, and angrier still at her straightwashing efforts. I wouldn’t believe her if she said she wasn’t doing that, at this point.

It’s not as if I expected her to be a perfect ally as a center-left moderate cishet white woman in the late 90s/early 2000s, and I do think that Dumbledore being gay was revolutionary in a way that most modern audiences seriously fail to appreciate, but I wish she wasn’t so damned insistent that no one else could be queer in any way at any point. She’s also really evidently uncomfortable about any displays of affection between confirmed same-sex pairings - she was absolutely neurotic about the amount of physical contact between Mads Mikkelsen and Jude Law during FB3, to the point that she fought with David Yates about it. And her behavior contributed to the intense homophobia I and others experienced in our formative early years in fandom - no-slash mailing lists and archives, the immediate classification of all queer fanfic as inherently more mature or more sexual simply by virtue of having queer people in it, Wizards For Bush, etc. As a result, boycott or no boycott, I hope that Wolfstar is canon in the new series, I hope Mundungus stays the crossdressing icon that they are, I hope Tonks is canonically nonbinary, and I hope Joanne loses sleep over it.

#hp #hp meta #sirius black #wolfstar #sirius/remus #on joanne

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sadpartita · 10 days ago

Text

How Mileven Strengths Byler?

I’ve been analyzing Stranger Things for a while now, and over time, I’ve come to a thesis: Mileven is actually the greatest proof that Byler is endgame, or at the very least, Byler is the most coherent narrative resolution for Mike, Will, and Eleven’s character arcs.

This post is my take on why that’s the case. It’s also a reflection of how I’ve come to interpret the show over the years, even before I became part of the Byler community.

The points I raise here aren’t necessarily new or original, many of them have been discussed in the fandom already. But rather than focusing on what we see on screen and speculating about what it might mean, I wanted to take a slightly different route: looking at how these characters were constructed (in this case, Mike and El), and how their very creation generates meaning.

In that sense, my central argument is this: Mileven, by the way it's written and structured, actually reinforces Byler. Not because of subtext or hidden clues, but because of the internal logic of the characters themselves.

Disclaimer: This isn’t a claim that my reading is better than others, far from it. If it weren’t for the amazing discussions already happening in the fandom, I wouldn’t have been able to develop my own perspective. My goal is simply to show that, even through a different analytical lens, Byler still emerges as the most narratively satisfying resolution.

Now for a quick intro to the framework I’m using:

Semiotics is the study of how meaning is produced, not just in language, but in images, media, gestures, and especially in stories. I’m using a specific branch of semiotics here, French semiotics, particularly the work of Algirdas Julien Greimas. He developed a method for analyzing the deep structure of narratives: what’s really going on underneath the surface.

One of his most important tools is the actantial model, which maps out narrative roles, not just who the characters are, but how they function in the story. For example:

The subject is the one who wants something

The object is what they want

A helper aids the subject

An opponent gets in the way

And a manipulator pushes the subject to act

These roles aren’t fixed to one character, they can shift or overlap depending on the moment in the narrative.

When we apply this model to Mike and Eleven, some really interesting patterns show up, and not in Mileven’s favor.

This post will walk through those semiotic concepts and apply them to Stranger Things, focusing especially on Mike and Eleven, and how their relationship does (or doesn’t) work in terms of narrative structure. I’ll also touch on Mike and Will, and why that dynamic hits very differently.

You don’t need a background in theory to follow, I’ll explain things as we go.

Oh, and just so you know: I’ll be working from the most surface-level elements to the deepest ones in each analysis. So we’ll start with the obvious... and then dig in.

Eleven

Discursive Level

First, let's understand how the show creates meaning through Eleven. Usually we are shown Eleven through the lenses of other characters, taking season 1 as an example, through the main boys' point of view of what Eleven actually is. For the audience, this creates an ambiguity, we aren't sure about what she really is, reinforcing her mysterious and "othered" position.

Also, the show doesn't expose her story line at once, on the contrary, it tells by short flashbacks through the seasons that progressively makes us understand who she really is. Not only it mirrors her identity, that is also fragmented, but also elicit us to want to know more about her and, with more flashbacks, more complacent we are to her as an audience.

Now, taking the visual clues, her shaved head and sterile clothing from the beginning of the show (S1-S2) sets a dehumanized character, more an experiment than a child. While in season 3 she starts to use more colorful wardrobe, making a shift onto individualization and social integration.

Sound also makes a huge difference when Eleven is in the scene, specially when she uses her powers, the sound is never really comfortable, and, when it is, is silence, the complete absence of any noise, which is, for us human beings, something alien. That reinforces the idea that she is different, she is, in fact, an alien (having that ET comparison established), a thought she brings with her, but she didn't want to bring.

In the early seasons, sound is used to reflect Eleven’s disconnection from the world around her. In addition to the unsettling noises tied to her powers, there is also a lot of low, ominous background music when she’s involved in scenes where she’s escaping or hiding. The sound isn’t just about the action happening in the moment — it reflects her emotional state. When she’s hiding from the lab, or when she’s confronted by forces that want to control her, the sound emphasizes the danger and the isolation she feels.

As Eleven begins to settle into her role as part of the Hawkins group, there’s a shift in how sound is used around her. In season 3, the incorporation of more upbeat, familiar music, like pop songs (e.g., her "shopping montage"), signals her increasing sense of integration into society. However, even in these moments, the underlying tension of her powers and past still lingers. The sound design starts to incorporate both the social integration of her character (through music) and her emotional and supernatural isolation (through sound effects tied to her powers).

Narrative Level

In its initial state (S1-S2), El's object of value is clear: she wants to belong, to be loved, and to connect with others. She starts as an object of manipulation, something to be used, therefore, she wants to get away from that by being seen as a human, as an equal.

Taking through semiotics term is not yet a subject, she is an object, here Mike and Hopper are the subjects, they act, protect and do things related to her. Narratively saying, she is more as an object to Mike than an active agent herself.

From season 2 onwards, El slowly gets her subjecthood, therefore she acts by her own objectives. Her stay with Hopper is overprotective, but what makes her arc go forward are her own desires, the desire to discover, to understand that moves the narrative forward.

So, that's her first transformation from an object to a subject, therefore an actant. In season 2 is the first time that Eleven has a relationship that is different from a father-daughter situation, not only by encounter with Kali, but also the romantic movies she watched on the TV, and her late relationship with Mike.

In season 3, those ideals are broken. Max comes as a disruptor in Eleven's life, the only thing El knows at that point it Brenner, Mike and Hopper, so Max comes to change this perspective. It is with that relationship that El actively becomes a subject that not only acts based on their desires, but rejects imposed desires from other subjects.

So she not only changes the way she is, but breaks up with Mike, she pushes away one of the few pillars she has, which is a big character growth.

However, in the end of season 3 she loses everything. Hopper is dead, she no longer has powers, she is far away from Max, the only thing she can get back, though, is Mike, so she does.

Now, before continuing, you see how terrible this is? To be fair, subjugating a female character to this situation is ridiculous and something that should NEVER be gratified, but I'll dive more this in the conclusion

In season 4, El lies to Mike about her situation, she wants to perform an idea that she is whole without her powers, that she can be a normal person, because, in her mind, Mike won't like her if she shows fragility, she needs to be strong. With Mike not saying that he loves her confirming that, without her powers, he doesn't see her that way, that she needs them to be loved.

And, honestly, Mike's "monologue" only reinforces this into El's mind, he was only able to say "I love you" to her when she was using them, when she was being a superhero.

Fun fact: that Mike Confession Scene was NOT a monologue, I'll explain in another post. It is a theoretical thing that no one cares, but I need to say to sound smart.

Deep Semantic Oppositions

Now comes the hardest part: summarize El's character in a simple semantic opposition. And, to be honest, there are a few of them. The reason why that is important is that, when we build the previous two steps - narrative and discursive levels - we use them to justify this opposition, therefore, they are build to reinforce it.

El's opposition I'm diving into is object x subject. Why? That's her storyline, the whole show, the desire to be a subject, but being subjugated into an object by everyone around.

In the first seasons, she is more of an object, being act upon, being experimented, but also, being the key to others' actions (Papa's control, the lab's weaponization, Mike's need for love)

While in seasons 3 and 4, she claims her agency: chooses her name, clothes, friends and battles, the turning point being the break-up, where she rejects the object status, becoming so, a subject.

Mike Wheeler

Discursive Level

Discursively, Mike is a character constructed to be an emotional anchor, he wants to protect, and, when he can’t, he feels bad, feels out of place. His self-image is about being needed, he derives identity from being El’s protector and emotional reference point. Not only for El, but for Will too.

Mike’s character says, not do. He is highly reactive, doesn’t change the world; he tries to maintain relationships and stabilize emotions. In summary, Mike rarely does something to show, he says, he promises and declares. Mike wants to be a protector to Eleven, he says it multiple times, but since Eleven has powers, he might not be necessary, and that breaks him.

However, when he can do this in season 4, when she cannot defend herself from Angela, he does nothing, he can’t react, or maybe, doesn’t want to.

When a couple is determined as the official, usually they move each other forward, both characters grow within the relationship and their motivations and troubles evolve accordingly. However, when looking at Mike, that doesn’t happen, Mike doesn’t have any major character evolution, differently than all the other main characters, which suggests that his drive to evolution is not in El, but something else.

His relationship with Eleven, therefore, is a self-validation tool, since he is in a relationship everything is fine, even so, he’s incapable of validating El’s feelings, since, for him, the status is enough and nothing else is needed.

With that said, let’s look through another lens and understand Mike’s relationship with Will. Here, Mike does the opposite: shows more than says. Which is interesting, is almost like that, with Will, he doesn’t need to reassure anything, just being is enough. Nonetheless, Mike and Will are almost always, if not always, framed into private and intimate moments, and mostly close physically, and consequently, emotionally.

Also, if not romantic, Mike isn’t as close physically to El than he is to Will, something that was really well observed by many members of the Byler community, and, the technical aspects of a text, in these cases, film, affect directly the understanding of the message. Therefore, not taking blocking into consideration when analyzing film is, honestly, superfluous. That said, Mike and Will’s relationship is more intimate, welcoming and, by consequence, less performative and dramatic as Mike and El’s relationship.

Mileven scenes, on the other hand, are fast-paced and, usually tense for reasons outside their relationship. Scenes like Byler only happen to Mileven when there are tensions in their relationship, so, it’s almost obvious to infer that when it’s a love scene, the focus isn’t their relationship, while, when it’s a fight scene, the focus shifts to them.

When it comes to protection, he’s much the same with both, however, he is more complex when it comes to Will, usually his dialogue and Finn’s acting is more complex in Byler scene than in Mileven scenes, which suggest more importance in those scenes. Framing Will and Mike’s relationship so ambiguous and complex is, for semiotics, what makes a relationship authentic, which never happens with Mileven.

Narrative Level

When it comes to the narrative level, both to Will and El, Mike isn’t capable of fulfilling the proper narrative function he’s assigned to, however, the ways he fails is different in both.

With El, Mike is the boyfriend, he has the function of supporting her romantically, so she can overcome the evil with love. Taking season 4 then, overcoming Vecna with his confession. However, Mikes doesn’t know how to help El, cannot say “I love you” when he needs to, he claims to love her, but never actively does anything to prove it and knows that he should be there for El, but rarely is.

He is therefore a failing narrative subject, someone whose role is clear, but who does not fully realize it in action. He’s given a romantic arc, but does not embody the transformation that should come with it. Mike is supposed to be a helper, an object of desire, however becomes an obstacle, a false helper (he lies, creates confusion, etc.). In summary, Mike’s narrative arc feels incomplete and, mostly, forced, artificial, there’s no emotional development or transformation.

With Will, Mike acts like the friend, but also as the unresolved desire. Here, Mike doesn’t have a clear function, but his arc is haunted by possibility. He is unaware of Will’s feelings, but knows how to support him and shows it more than just saying he does. That creates, “semiotically”, a more authentic subject.

Mike is a subject with a possibility of transformation, where he might change his relationship towards Will. Their relationship is structured as a coming-of-age arc or an identity arc that is yet to be resolved.

In summary, at the narrative level, Mike is more of a genre placeholder in the El arc, he represents what a boyfriend “should be,” but without the corresponding personal transformation that legitimizes the role.

With Will, he becomes a subject in crisis, caught between a role he’s performing and a self he hasn’t yet discovered. It’s less dramatic narratively, but more authentic semantically.

Deep Semantic Oppositions

When looking at Mike’s semantic opposition, it’s correct to say it is Authenticity x Performance. That comes with the idea that, with El, Mike is over performative, he tries to prove every single time that he’s in love with El, while, with Will, he lets his actions shows, he just feels, creating a more authentic experience.

Also, that might encapsulate Mike’s identity crises, that’s implied in all the levels of analysis. His actions towards El feel imposed, proved by the fact that, if it wasn’t for Will almost begging for Mike to do something at the end of season 4, he wouldn’t have done. While with will he’s more emotionally authentic. However, it lacks language or social permission to express it directly.

This tension aligns deeply with semiotic theories of subjectivity, the subject is not fixed, but constructed through contradictory roles and expectations. Mike’s conflict between performance and authenticity is exactly that. The ambiguity created by this opposition is not resolved by the narrative, and that’s what makes it rich for analysis. Unlike characters with a clear arc (e.g., El’s growth from object to subject), Mike’s arc remains unfinished, precisely because he’s stuck in the performance of a role that doesn’t fully fit.

This produces tension for the viewer, and is why so many fans feel there’s “something off” about Mike’s role, it’s not that the writing is bad, but that the character is written to be incomplete.

Conclusion

In conclusion, it's clear that Mileven is not a fitting resolution for either Mike or Eleven's character arcs. For Eleven, Mileven reinforces her position as a narrative object, falling into a misogynistic trope where female characters are portrayed as incomplete or lacking without the presence of a man or male figure.

For Mike, Mileven reduces him to a passive character whose actions have little to no impact on the overarching narrative, as he relies entirely on others — especially Eleven — to define his identity.

While Mileven might fulfill the expectation of a typical romantic relationship, it doesn't serve the characters in the way a more nuanced, authentic partnership would. Mike’s emotional immaturity and lack of self-awareness, paired with Eleven’s ongoing struggle to reclaim her agency, make their relationship more of a hindrance than a fulfilling conclusion to their arcs. Their narrative roles are more about performing a "boyfriend-girlfriend" dynamic than authentically exploring what it means to be in a healthy, balanced relationship.

In contrast, Byler offers a more organic narrative, allowing Mike's character arc to come full circle and providing the space for his actions to truly resonate within the story. It creates a more organic narrative, where Mike can act like himself and act beyond this performative personality he has to Eleven. The subtleties in their interactions, framed by quiet, intimate moments, provide a sense of real connection that doesn’t rely on external pressures or forced conventions. Mike and Will’s bond has the capacity for transformation, both on a personal and emotional level, which is something that Mileven ultimately lacks.

Ultimately, while Mileven may serve as a convenient narrative device, Byler provides a more satisfying and realistic resolution for both characters. It’s not just about romance, it’s about character growth, emotional authenticity, and a relationship that drives the characters forward, rather than keeping them stagnant. Given that the creators have emphasized that Stranger Things is about the characters, not just the paranormal backdrop, Mileven undermines the very essence of the show.

Final Note: I'm NOT a semiotics specialist, therefore, it might have some conceptual mistakes here or there, however, the overall message is clear: Byler endgame :)

#byler #byler endgame #will byers #stranger things #mike wheeler #gay semiotics #byler nation #byler tumblr #byler proof

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kaizokuou-ni-naru · 10 months ago

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Thoughts on the Seraphim, assuming you have any?

one thing i think is quite interesting in egghead, which hasn't necessarily been highlighted prominently by the narrative but which underlies the whole arc, is the similar treatment of the various artificial humans created by vegapunk: the satellites, the seraphim, stussy, and, to a certain extent, kuma.

i think one of the points of egghead is that it's both inhumane and impossible to try and create a person with no individuality or free will. like, it's immoral, but it also just doesn't work. you can't create a person just to serve your own needs and have them not have any personality or identity of their own; it's antithetical to human nature. one piece consistently says that all things strive, and all things dream, and all things want to be free, and that's why vegapunk's creations keep becoming real people in ways that he didn't intend or foresee.

all of the artificial humans in this arc have some degree of identity and individual thought, even those who were specifically designed to be perfectly obedient. we see this when vegapunk is shocked to hear that s-snake is capable of defying orders to help luffy, and when kuma comes to save bonney despite every fact of science saying that he should be brain-dead.

york's betrayal is also consistent with this. vegapunk didn't see it coming, because he created and viewed the satellites as extensions of himself, but they aren't! they're sentient people with, at least, the potential to develop their own dreams and motivations and goals that don't necessarily align with his. that's what being human is.

in that sense, the fact that vegapunk's downfall is brought about by york's self-actualization is quite karmic. her actions are evil and extreme and cause massive collateral damage, of course, but i honestly think they're also pretty understandable when you consider her as a person who was created to only be an extra limb of someone else, trying to define herself. how else was she ever supposed to be free?

this theme is, i think, particularly embodied in stussy, who is clearly undergoing something of an identity crisis. she's caught between loyalty to the purpose she was seemingly created for and loyalty to the identity and relationships she's developed for herself while living out in the world as her own person; she betrays the latter for the former, which is something that clearly pains her greatly, and then loses the former anyways, leaving her with nothing.

the situation that stussy is put in is really very cruel, and honestly, egghead is a fundamentally inhumane place. it's full of people who are expected to not be people. it's frankly no wonder one of them eventually freaked out and turned evil.

vegapunk pressuring sentoumaru into betraying the world government for him is played for comedy, and it's basically implied sentoumaru would've done that anyways, but at the same time it's rather telling of the way vegapunk tends to treat his subordinates and creations: like their own thoughts and feelings, if they have any, don't really matter. vegapunk doesn't ever intend to be cruel, i don't think, but he's certainly thoughtless and inconsiderate, and when you're dealing with human life that can be just as damaging.

this all brings us back to the seraphim. they're weapons of war, yes, but they're also children who had no say in their own creation, and who clearly have at least somewhat more individuality than vegapunk intended them to have (as we see definitively with s-snake). they're effectively slaves of the world government, currently. even when you look at how they were created, they're products of experimentation on a captive child (king), and two of them, s-snake and s-bear, are cloned from former child slaves themselves.

one piece is a story about freedom. i think one way or another, thematically, the seraphim will have to end up free. i can't predict when or how that'll happen, but everything about egghead and the series as a whole indicates that the desire of living things to be free and dream is irrepressible.

#one piece #jonny answers #not japanese #opmeta #character meta #arc: egghead island #opspoilers #vegapunk #kuma #seraphim #stussy #york

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scoobydoodean · 4 months ago

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how much do you think chuck was actually affecting the movement of the plot throughout the series?

personally, i think he was just observing them from season 6 to season 10, but then he actually had to get involved upon amara’s return. and i do like the theory that he was responsible for the “vision” that cas thought he saw from jack, and that he kinda let mary get killed after cas’s prayer in 14x17, before again becoming fully involved throughout season 15. but for the other seasons 1-5, most of 12-14, and really for the overall universe, idk how much can, or should, be ascribed to chuck’s machinations. like i can never decide which route would be most satisfying for me as a viewer, and so i’m just curious as to what your opinion might be :)

Jack visions theory

Probably helps just to say starting off for anyone who might be coming from a different perspective, that my own understanding of Chuck's machinations in Supernatural (at least when it comes to Sam, Dean, and Cas) do not involve directly violating their free will. Chuck's machinations involve shaping the experiences around our characters to convince them to make the choices Chuck wants them to make. For example, when Dean tosses the gun aside in 14.20 and refuses to kill Jack, Chuck shouts "Do it!" instead of putting some kind of mind whammy on Dean that makes him kill Jack because Chuck either can't do that or won't do it because it wouldn't get him off. Chuck needs Dean to do what Chuck wants him to do (kill Jack) because Dean was brought to a point psychologically where he chose it. The same thing is true of Sam in season 4. The demons or the angels or Chuck don't operate Sam like a robot—they slowly convince him to take one turn after another based on the psychological state he's in, the things happening around him, and the things being whispered in his ears until he's killing Lilith and Lucifer's cage is opening, and Ruby says,

No. It wasn't the blood. It was you... and your choices. I just gave you the options, and you chose the right path every time. You didn't need the feather to fly, you had it in you the whole time, Dumbo! I know it's hard to see it now... but this is a miracle. So long coming. Everything Azazel did, and Lilith did. Just to get you here. And you were the only one who could do it.

I refer to Chuck's influence on the narrative as causality rather than fate. I have a tag for this called #spn and causality. 4.18 goes to great lengths to show how difficult it can be to subvert causality. For example, Dean tries to defy the writing by moving himself and Sam to a different hotel than Chuck wrote them to be in, but the motel's neon sign goes out, causing the name of their motel to "change" to "The Red Motel"—the motel Chuck wrote. ("No matter what details you alter, we will always end up here" etc etc). However, this episode goes on to show that it is possible to leap out of causality's flow. Chuck's control of the narrative ultimately works via anticipation. If he can anticipate his creations choices, his writing realigns everything with the narrative. If they do something he is unable to anticipate? They can leap out of his narrative just long enough to make a difference.

How do they leap out of causality's flow? Two things together: Dean and Cas. Quoting myself here in this post:

Leaping out of causality is something Dean and Cas do together in 4.18, 4.22, and 5.22. In 4.18, Dean pleads with Cas to help him save Sam, even though Cas thinks what’s going to happen is fate and can’t be subverted. Cas doesn’t personally act, but he gives Dean the idea that Dean then executes, leading Chuck to say “What are you doing here? I didn’t write this.” In 4.22, Dean pleads with Cas again. They again fight about the inescapability of destiny. This time, it’s Dean’s pleading but Cas’s actions—flying Dean out of the green room (somewhere Dean is incapable of escaping from on his own). Chuck says when they pop into his house, “Wait. T-t-this isn’t supposed to happen” and then “Yeah, but you guys aren’t supposed to be there. You’re not in this story”. In 5.22, after Lucifer takes Sam over (something that was foretold to happen in Detroit), Cas and Bobby despair, but Dean refuses to give up and calls Chuck, who says, “Oh, uh, Dean. Uh, wow. I, uh, I didn’t know that you’d call.” Then Dean goes to Stull Cemetery alone. However, the moment that Michael begins to walk up on Dean and says, “You little maggot. You are no longer a part of this story!” Guess who suddenly appears with a holy oil Molotov cocktail?

Dean and Cas are something Chuck seems to have a lot of trouble anticipating. I think this is true both individually and as a unit. Individually, Dean is the narrative heart, to an extent that his capacity for love is always exceeding the bounds that Chuck anticipates, leading to confounding leaps like showing up at Stull in "Swan Song" and dropping the gun in "Moriah" and saving the world with the power of love in 11.23. Dean in turn pleads with Cas with that heart, and Cas is angel with a crack in his chassis straight of the line. Naomi/Chuck cannot get Cas to do what he's "supposed" to do no matter how many times he's reprogrammed. He has Loving Dean Winchester/Humanity (same thing) Disease and it's incurable no matter how many lobotomies are attempted.

In the season 1-5 setting, Chuck is actually fairly hands off despite all of this being his prophecy foretold. He told the archangels that everything would end with Sam and Dean as the vessels for Lucifer and Michael (5.08) and Lucifer passed these stories on to his princes, and the angels and demons brought that prophecy to fruition—including with deliberate meddling in the Winchester/Campbell bloodline (5.13, 5.14). Heaven and hell act as Chuck's hands and feet, carrying out his plan out of desire and (in some cases) religious fanaticism. Because Chuck's so painstakingly worked on this narrative and everything is set up in advance, he can just watch it play out. When he interferes directly, it's actually to give Team Free Will a better shot at subverting him. Chuck only directly interferes in

4.22/5.01 to transport Sam and Dean to the plane, un-demon blood Sam, and resurrect Cas

5.22 to resurrect Cas again

All that said, I think season 1-5 is the original Chuck canon, which is subverted by Team Free Will working together, and most specifically, by Dean and Cas interfering in ways Chuck did not anticipate. And Chuck was fine with this. His narration at the end of "Swan Song" reveals that he's pleased, even if the story turned in a direction he didn't anticipate (maybe the Michael and Lucifer story started to bore him—they bore me, and him wanting Sam and Dean to mirror them so rigidly was rather uninspired).

I get the sense that Cas is probably a good litmus test for whether Chuck's entertained or not by the story subverting his expectations, because Cas is not "supposed" to be a part of the original story, but Chuck keeps bringing him back anyway. And yet, somewhere down the road, Cas falls wildly out of favor with Chuck, and Chuck is hurling rage at him for never doing as told—the very thing he seemed to like about Cas at first.

Maybe I'll see things that will make me change my mind as I work through seasons 7-10, but so far, I agree with you that season 6-10 seems to be a mostly "hands off" period, with Chuck only arguably interfering once, to bring Cas back a third time in season 7, depending on how seriously/literally you take Daphne's recollection of events in 7.17:

EMMANUEL/CASTIEL A few months ago, she was hiking by the river, and I wandered into her path, drenched and confused, and... unclothed. I had no memory. She said... God wanted her to find me.

It's not necessarily clear exactly where Chuck loses interest (or if for example, Cas might fall out of favor with Chuck before Sam and Dean do). Chuck shows up in season 10's "Fan Fiction" to see a play of his work, so he was clearly feeling fond enough to celebrate his handiwork in an very non-prestigious but intimate setting. But when Chuck shows up in season 11's "Don't Call Me Shurley", he talks to Metatron about traveling (to his other universes, perhaps?). Chuck's writing his memoir, and Metatron claims it's full of self-doubt and nebbishness. Chuck's apathy jumps out to Metraton quick too. Metatron criticizes Chuck for writing only two paragraphs on the archangels in his memoir, lending to the notion that Chuck had come to a point where they bored him. Metraton tries to remind him that Lucifer was his favorite because he rebelled, but Chuck then denies that Lucifer was ever even his favorite! He doesn't like this rebellion thing so much anymore... which might also tip his hand as far as how he's beginning to feel about Team Free Will. I think it's likely that Amara is the catalyst for his change of heart, but I'll have to wait until I circle back to season 11 to have a fully formed conclusion on this.

Then we get seasons 12-15 where—at least arguably—Chuck begins planting the seeds for a new final ending, trying to force Dean into the role of Michael—the son so loyal to him that he killed his own brother. The problem is that Dean's never really been like Michael, and that's the whole reason season 5 never worked. It's also the reason "Moriah" doesn't work. Lilith claims in season 15 that Chuck has a creepy obsession with Dean—Dean specifically. Dean whose loyal love fills Lucifer with such seething jealousy in "Swan Song" that he loses control of Sam's body just as Dean's pleading brings Sam's consciousness to the surface to fight. That same loving heart thaws Amara toward Chuck in 11.23, and I think Chuck... decides that he does not like this. It is something beyond his capacity to express or to anticipate and write around. It is transformative, causality-defying love, that ruined his original ending (and he's BORED and TIRED). And has given Cas Winchester Derangement Syndrome so he can't be controlled. He decides that he hates Dean Winchester's heart, and he tries to obliterate it out of existence and force Dean into the Michael role once and for all.

#mail #spn and causality #chuck #11.20 #5.22 #11.23 #14.20 #10.05 #7.17 #4.22 #5.01 #4.18 #multiseason #dean the narrative heart

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the-somberlaiin · 7 months ago

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I'm just going to put in my own two cents since every two weeks, people start discoursing on the ''proper'' way to interpret Medic's character (He is definetly the one that causes the most division among people out of the entire cast)

The thing that alot of people forget or simply don't take into consideration is that Medic is not evil in any kind of serious or meaningful way, but in a cartoonish and superficial way, in a fun way. He is a comedic joke character who exists as a parody of the ''evil scientist'' trope while also being a decently fleshed out and interesting character on his own that isn't JUST a parody.

This is why you can have a lot of leeway with his personality and make him capable of bonding and caring for other people while also keeping his violent and malicious traits at the same time. Because the narrative doesn't treat his atrocities with the same gravity that any other media would treat it. In the tf2 universe, violence and killing is inconsequential.

This isn't me saying you can't have more serious takes on him seeing as so many things about the characters are up to interpretation, i always encourage freedom of artistic expression. But you have to aknowledge that's purely a creation of your own making and not the way he is actually presented in the text or source material. Which still doesn't make those interpretations ''wrong'', they are just different.

I put heavy emphasis on that because i dislike the idea that one specific vision of a character is inferior for any reason and i think we should encourage people to think for themselves and simply have fun with these characters rather than making them feel stupid for having ideas that diverge from our own.

#people should be allowed to write more unpleasant or unsavory charactererizations #but i personally find it too boring and trite to make him completely unfeeling #it's much more interesting if a character has contradicting and varying traits and moods in my personal opinion #tf2 #medic #team fortress 2 #tf2 medic #medic tf2 #medic team fortress 2 #team fortress 2 medic #team fortress two

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carriagelamp · 4 months ago

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My favourite books from 2024! Another really strong year of books for me -- every year will have some stinkers and a bunch of middling reads, but the highs of this year were really high so I'm pretty content

As always, I give more detailed descriptions and opinions of the books in my month reviews, but here's a quick breakdown for anyone who's interested:

The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt

A non-fiction book that looks at how childhood has been “rewired”, focusing specifically on the increase of overprotective parenting, increase of tablet/social media usage, and decrease of unstructured, independent play. It was a fascinating read that really looked at how children need to be given lots of opportunities to play, take risks, and make mistakes in order to learn and grow and how a loss of that might be impacting people’s mental health. As someone right on the cusp of the age bracket that’s being focused on, it felt very exposing.

Apothecary Diaries v1-2 by Natsu Hyuuga

Maomao is kidnapped and sold as a servant to the imperial palace, where she serves as a general dogsbody in the rear palace, home of the emperor’s various consorts and concubines. She’s determined to keep her head down until her contract is up… until she helps solve a mystery and catches the eye of the powerful eunech Jinshi who soon learns about her in-depth knowledge of apothecary work and anything to do with poisons. Very funny premise, Maomao hates Jinshi soooo much and he is such a simp for it. She just wants to eat poisons and be left alone and he says “no<3” to both of those

Bury Your Gays (and Straight) by Chuck Tingle

Both of these are very explicitly queer horror novels. Straight is a novella that riffs on the format of a zombie story, but with straight people becoming inexplicably violent towards queer people one day a year. Bury Your Gays is about a Hollywood screenwriter who realises his horror creations are begin to stalk him in the real world. Both are very intentionally built around social commentary on queer issues, and despite have audacious premises they completely own their camp and end up producing really well thought out, insightful stories. I can’t say I liked either as much as Camp Damascus but either is worth a read.

Console Wars by Blake J. Harris (and Blood, Sweat, and Pixels by Jason Schreier)

Console Wars is a nonfiction book I’ve meant to read for years on my brother’s recommendation and I quite enjoyed it. It explores the history of the video game console market in North America, with a focus on how Nintendo revitalized it and how Sega then swooped in to upset the monopoly it held. The book is written in a very narrative, personable style and I found myself really rooting for the various people and companies being portrayed ahahaha. A shockingly fun read. I also read Blood, Sweat, and Pixels which wasn’t quite as narratively compelling but a related read that looked at games with complex development cycles.

Defekt by Nino Cipri

Technically the sequel to Finna which I also read this year, but Defekt works as a stand-alone and is, imho, the better of the two. Both deal with a surrealist horror Ikea setting, where the sheer density and liminal-space-ness of it all allows strange wormholes to open up between these stores from different dimensions. Finna deals with actual wormhole hopping, whereas Defekt focuses in on one employee who gets assigned to a very strange overnight inventory shift.

The Disabled Tyrant’s Beloved Pet Fish v1-2 by Xue Shan Fei Hu

Fish isekai book. Is this a good book? No. Is it a really really fun book? Yes, in spades. In this book, Li Yu wakes up in a court drama novel… but not as a character but rather as the tyrannical prince’s pet fish. He is given the task to improve the prince and is stuck figuring out how the hell to do this as a fish. This book knows exactly how ridiculous it is and leans into it. Li Yu and Prince Jing are both idiots in very unique and exciting directions. No one knows what the fuck is happening.

Down Among the Sticks and Bones by Seanan McGuire

A prequel to Every Heart a Doorway, though it works perfectly well as a standalone. Honestly I liked it more than the first. This book has deliciously gothic horror vibes, and it plays with all the tropes you would expect from gothic horror / fear of the sublime. It’s about sisters who find a strange chest that lets them descend to the sinister land of the Moors. This is where vampires rule, werewolves stalk, and mad scientist’s ply their craft. The girls end up separated on and very different trajectories as they grow and acclimatize to the brutal existence of the Moors.

Escape From Incel Island by Margaret Killjoy

Exactly what it says on the tin. Completely insane book that is very worth the read if you feel like something that is patently insane. I strongly recommend treating this as a read aloud with a friend or loved one because I read it with my brother and couldn’t stop laughing. Top notch mercenary Mankiller Jones is sent to escort a computer scientist to Incel Island to retrieve lost governmental data. There they have to survive the hoards of Nice Guys, Volcels, Betas, and every other violent inhabitant of the island if they ever want to… escape from Incel Island.

Heaven Official’s Blessing v6-8 by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu

I finished the main series of Heaven Official’s Blessing (without reading the extras yet), and man what an ending! I could not have asked for a more epic or satisfying conclusion! The final battle and its various stages? The character reconciliation? The villain reveal? Perfect, no notes. The series itself follows Xie Lian, a prince who has ascended to godhood twice and been cursed and cast out from Heaven just as many times, giving him the title of the Laughingstock God. The story begins with him, to everyone’s dismay, ascending a third time.

Horrorstör (and Paperbacks from Hell, My Best Friend’s Exorcism) by Grady Hendrix

This book also deals with a Strange Alternate Ikea, but is the superior book. This was one of my top reads for 2024, and it was flawless horror. It is essentially a haunted house story set in an Ikea, that manages to be both chilling, disgusting, and a shockingly insightful critique of capitalism and retail. Very worth the read.

After reading this I also read Paperbacks from Hell (a nonfiction book that does an analysis of horror fiction from the ‘70s and ‘80s, very good read) and My Best Friend’s Exorcism (which was decent but not my favourite of Hendrix’s since possession and exorcism isn’t my favourite brand of horror. The vaguely queer undertones and ending I found interesting, and it did some cool things throughout.)

Jeeves and Wooster books by P.G. Wodehouse

I ended up listening to so many of the Jeeves and Wooster audiobooks this summer while I was travelling. There were some I really really loved and some that fell very flat for me. I think I listened to too many in a row by the end… These books are like popcorn, not deep but very fun, and follow the airheaded but good natured Bertie Wooster and his man Jeeves who unfailing swoops in to solve all the strange and inane problems the Bertie gets involved in. They tend to be funny, light-hearted, and clever in their resolution of plot problems… though some of the issues do get rather repetitive. My favourites were: The Inimitable Jeeves, Very Good Jeeves, Right Ho Jeeves, and the Code of the Woosters.

Kaiju Preservation Society by John Scalzi

Some excellent science fiction, especially for my Pacific Rim loving heart. This bordered on the cosy fantasy genre, while mixing in plenty of science, world-building and a good dash of excitement. During the Covid-19 lockdown, Jamie Gray is stuck trying to make ends meet as a food delivery driver… until he runs into an old acquaintance who suggests he might have a very different job offer for him. Jamie ends up joining this very secretive “animal rights group” and finds out just how massive, dangerous, and otherworldly these “animals” are by being risked to an entirely different dimension filled with giant, radioactive monsters.

Lula Dean’s Little Library of Banned Books by Kirsten Miller

One of my favourite books from this year! Tthis book managed to hit on very topical subjects with both tact and humour. Lula Dean has spearheaded a book banning crusade, managing to get a number of “problematic” books removed from the library and has made a show of setting up a Little Free Library in her yard full of “appropriate” books instead. When Beverly Underwood visits her mother and hears about this she’s so exasperated with it all that she quickly hatches a plan swapping out the dust jackets of some of the banned books with the ones in Lula Dean’s Little Free Library. The rest of the story is about various people in the town who borrow a book from Lula Dean’s library and how the book they got instead ends up impacting not just themselves but their town. The first story involves a penis cake. Can’t recommend it enough, starts out humour and quickly becomes something you want to rally around.

My Happy Marriage v1 by Akumi Agitogi

This was pure mindless fluff, it was honestly a delight. This is a low-fantasy, Cinderella-esque story set in the Taishō era. It focuses on Miyo Saimori who lives under the thumb of her cruel step-mother, haughty step-sister, and indifferent father. She’s resigned to being treated like a servant in her own home and ekeing out a strained existence, but her life takes a turn when she finds herself nominally engaged to the allegedly cold and cruel Kiyoka Kudou. It’s just absolutely overwhelmingly cute and I really enjoy the contrasting POVs.

A Series of Unfortunate Events and Poison for Breakfast by Lemony Snicket

I’d never finished The Series of Unfortunate Events when it was originally coming out, so I finally sat down and did that, and honestly it was well worth the wait! It was a very interesting series to read as an adult, especially all in one go, because it really let me appreciate everything that Snicket was trying to say. It was a much more clever and philosophical read than I was anticipating, and The End was fucking superb. He absolutely stuck the landing, it completely blew me away. Poison For Breakfast was also a very interesting standalone novella that felt like surrealist philosophy. I might have even enjoyed it more than the basic TSOUE.

The Poison Squad (and The Poisoner’s Handbooks) by Deborah Blum

Poison Squad is a very compelling and topical nonfiction about the formation of the American Food and Drug act. The state of unregulated food processing in the late 19th century was, in a word, nightmarish. Don’t read this book if you have a weak stomach. But it’s completely fascinating to see how one person, Dr Harvey Wiley, made it a personal mission to scientifically prove what all these mysterious food additives were doing to people and put limits to what could be sold to consumers. I liked it so much I went to read Blum’s other book, The Poisoner’s Handbook which is set during Prohibition and explores the rise of forensic medicine and again exposes how people were being poisoned by simply living their standard lives.

The Pushcart War by Jean Merrill

The real, true history of the New York City Pushcart War!! For real!!! This is a delightful underdog story that is really written in the style of a history textbook recounting the fictional Pushchart War. This war started in New York City as the roads get increasingly congested with traffic, the worst offenders being the increasingly massive and arrogant trucks. The trucking companies hatch a plan though: if they begin to push out the little pushcarts, framing them as the problem for the congestion, then how hard would it be to push out taxis next? Or buses? Or motorcars? How long until they can make the road a perfect habit for trucks and trucks alone? How can something as small and poor as a pushcart owner fight back?

Railsea (and This Census-Taker) by China Miéville

I heard Railsea described on tumblr and it sounded sufficiently insane that I had to read it for myself. This author is truly unrivaled when it comes to bizarre worldbuilding that feels both very, very grounded in reality while also being completely unexplained and impossible. Railsea is essentially a Moby Dick meets Treasure Island retelling but with trains instead of boats and giant, mutated, vicious moles instead of whales. Unhinged. Can’t recommend enough. I followed this up by reading his novella This Census-Taker which was not as much of a frolicking adventure but fucked with my brain just as much or more than Railsea did. Genuinely not sure I even know what happened in that story but I enjoyed the experience of being completely fucking baffled for some 200 pages.

The Salt Grows Heavy by Cassandra Khaw

Another book to ideally not read if you have a weak stomach. This novella is very big on unrelenting body horror. This is a twisted fairytale retelling in which a cannibalistic Little Mermaid meets a plague doctor Frankenstein. Both of them are walking away from cruel past lives, along a trail that’s soaked in blood and viscera. You feel how painfuly and disgustingly human this book is, while also being so wildly separate from anything that resembles human anatomy or morality. Superb.

Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System v1-4 by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu

The last of MXTX’s three series I needed to read. It was the one I was most hesitant about, but I ended up having a really great time with it. It is simultaneously the most light-hearted and silly of the three series, while also the one that most gleefully dives into torture and sex. So you get a bit of everything with this, and as usual MXTX does a really good job of mixing the humour and series in a way that keeps things constantly interesting. The story is about Shen Yuan who dies our of pure, frothing fury after reading the shitty ending to the shitty, porny webnovel he’s been reading for hundreds of thousands of words. He dies cursing the lousy author and the lousy writing so he’s given a chance: step up and do it better! Which is easier said than done, when he finds himself waking up in the body of the series’ villain who is destined to be gruesomely tortured to death. Better get on that!

Shakespeare: The Man Who Pays the Rent by Judi Dench and Brendan O'Hea

This is the written result of a number of interviews held between Judi Dench and Brendan O’Hea and she discusses her time as a Shakespearean actress. It looks into what her time working with theatre companies was like, summarizes the plays she took part in, and delivers into some fascinating character analysis of the roles she played. An absolute treasure of a book for someone who enjoyed their Shakespeare and/or Judi Dench.

Singing Hills Cycle v1-5 by Nghi Vo

Probably my favourite series that I read this year, I can’t wait for the next book! This series follows Chih and her magical bird companion who come from the Singing Hills Monastery, an order that is devoted to keep recording tales and keeping a history of the land. Chih travels all over in these various novellas, collecting stories, memories, and histories that they come across. The first book has them entering the recently unwarded palace of the late Empress to learn about her marriage, imprisonment and rise in power. The second has them trapped by a pack of tigresses with nothing to do but frantically lure them into comparing stories.

The War That Saved My Life by Kimberly Brubaker Bradley

Ten year old Ada was born with a club foot and because of it has never been allowed to leave her apartment. She lives a hard life trying to care for her younger brother and suffer through the abuses of her mother. Things change though as the Second World War truly begins and London begins to evacuate children to the country. Ada is determined — she and her brother will evacuate, they will escape their mother’s house, even if it means her learning how to walk on her club foot. Even if it means facing how different life is for unwanted slum children in the country, and confronting how much she and her brother don’t know about life. This was a very touching book, it did a great job of balancing Ada’s justifiable pain and anger with an optimistic story. Queer elements are all subtext but there — they aren’t the main focus of this story.

When Women Were Dragons by Kelly Barnhill

This book absolutely took my breath away, it was a next level literary experience. It’s very, very solidly magical realism, so don’t go into this expecting true fantasy, everything going on here is allegorical and a beautifully done allegory at that. This story is set during the 1950s, in a time surrounding an event known as “The Mass Dragoning” when thousands of women suddenly, spontaneously, transformed into dragons and flew away. The story follows Alex Green who was a child during this event. Her aunt transformed. Her mother didn’t. Both of these things have profound impacts on Alex as she grows up, and a woman’s role in society, a woman’s anger, her joy, her desire are all questioned and explored.

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thesiltverses · 4 months ago

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why hello I'm the guy who sort of accidently started sibling Rane saturday. And I find fandom culture a rather interesting subject and found the way you talked about the reasons Rane became fairly popular for being a minor character, really interesting. It is true that I'm drawn to characters who are left up to interpretation, there's just allot to talk about with them despite us not knowing that much about them.

I remember when there was still only like 2 drawings of Rane, oh how Ranenation has grown lol. I always wonder what its like from a creators point of few to see a fandom just take a life of its own like that? -Sincerely Sibling Rane's number 1 fan

I think I've spoken about my philosophy before, but what I feel is probably a bit like the happy detachment of a musician whose sample is used in a different, more popular song. "I didn't intend for this to happen and I don't feel a strong personal connection to it, but it's really cool and lovely to see what's being done with it."

Which I think is good and healthy. I think that creators end up suffocating (and coming to hate) their own creations without ever quite realising it if they're too led around by fan enthusiasm.

If we'd been in a position to react to Ranial enthusiasm by cravenly giving Rane a bigger role, a backstory episode, an actual Faulkner romance, etc - that might have spurred on a noisier fan reaction and felt like success. But it would have also been pandering, it'd have likely confused or annoyed anyone who doesn't share in the Ranemania, and it'd have sent us narratively off-course.

It's a challenging balance, because on one level I believe it's really important and valuable to watch for and learn from cues and enthusiasm spikes (and dips) in your audience response when you're putting out a serial narrative online. But you do also have to be like the driver keeping your eyes and focus fixed on the road while everyone in the passenger seats is yelling "imagine how awesome it would be if we were going to an ice-cream store! Let's all discuss our favourite ice-cream flavours" and you have to maintain the discipline of, "you guys keep talking about ice-cream as we drive on to the Aeronautical and Automotive Museum of Calgary, which will be fun on its own different way."

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queen-simia · 5 months ago

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now that ep 4 is live to the public, I can finally post what I've been sitting (and spinning) on for like a week, wheeee!

Major Monkey Wrench spoilers abound, so putting below a cut if you haven't yet seen the latest episode. And if you haven't seen it (or the rest of the series), you can do so here:

now ON TO THE INFODUMP

Shrike's status

so, since the beginning, I've been putting all my money on Shrike being an artificial being. Not in the sense of robotics/cyborgs and the like, but in the sense of a one-of-a-kind bioengineered creature. Since he was confirmed as an endling (as opposed to just hinted at in past episodes), I'm choosing to take that as a bit of reinforcement; his species is still marked as "unknown" by LAW, and if no one knows what you are and you're the only one they've ever seen, it's safe to assume they assume you're the last of whatever you are.

now, in a leap on my part, I'm further going to postulate that Shrike is actually an engineered squid. As in an honest-to-god Earth cephalopod, albeit in the same sense you can call a human a monkey. I think that maybe our boy Shrike is the end result of years-long genetic modification and breeding programs to create something closer to human shape and intelligence, but with whatever attributes his human creators wanted from squid...

...maybe attributes like producing ink.

"that's stupid, what makes you think that?" Glad you asked, Strawman! Here's what I'm drawing from:

Scratch's nicknames for Shrike

As much as these can be considered throwaways, Zeurel and Ash have been very good about sneaking in foreshadowing in dialogue. I don't fully think Scratch is calling Shrike "squidhead" just to be antagonistic (though in-universe, he certainly is; I doubt the character himself in canon has that kind of insight); I'm choosing to believe it may be a bit of a Chekhov's gun.

Shrike's design inspiration

In Tumblr ask replies, Zeurel's confirmed Shrike's design is based heavily on Humboldt squid, and he finds cephalopods and deep-sea life in general interesting. It's going into meta rather than narrative precedent, but I think for these reasons, having Shrike actually be an ascended squid wouldn't be that far out of the blue.

Shrike's terran connections

It's been established that Earth no longer exists, and what humans remain are persona non grata in LAW space. They're the reason behind the Cataclysm/the creation of Secondary Green, and what artifacts remain are traded on the black market (as implied by Scratch and Jaw Bone dealing in them, neither of whom are exactly upstanding citizens).

Yet somehow, Shrike speaks primarily in a canonically dead Earth language—Latin Spanish—and thinks highly of terrans/terran culture. He apparently is the only being in LAW space who does both. One could argue he picked up Spanish through exposure to contraband as a LAW officer, but even his translated speech is Spanish-accented. That to me is a clue it's his native language, as opposed to one picked up later in life. Maybe he doesn't speak it all that well, but it's what he learned as he grew up.

I believe that Shrike's interest in terran artifacts isn't so much fannish as it is nostalgic, though he doesn't realize it (yet). Remember, we don't know his true age—he's only estimated to be in his mid- to late 20s. He could very well be several decades or even 800+ years old, and for reasons yet unknown he isn't aware of it. Hell, he knows what VHS tapes are and how to watch them, something present-day kids are unfamiliar with right now. Even if he was treated as only a scientific specimen in his youth, something about Earth/its people may have been warm and familiar enough to endear terran mementos to him. But it's now too far gone in the past for him to remember why exactly he loves them so much.

Shrike got no dick

(originally posted to Twitter before the Shittening)

Canonically, the boy is Ken-doll smooth both front and back. Even though he has a gender (Questionably Masc™), he has no sex. Maybe his species could reproduce asexually, but it's pretty unusual for complex bipedal critters to do that. Plus, there's the fact that no peehole and no butthole also mean no bodily waste excretion, which is pretty much a death sentence for most life forms that run on metabolic processes. Therefore, I'm taking all these as artifacts of Shrike's artificial creation (and not just so it's more difficult to make show-accurate porn of him).

The Primaries, LAW, and Secondary Green

So there are three godlike beings that ostensibly also serve as the basis for government, referred to as the Primaries. Only one has been directly referenced as active in LAW government—Primary Red—but given the colors of the three LAW divisions, one can safely assume there must be a Primary Yellow and Primary Blue (whether they also govern, are off doing something else, or are AWOL is a mystery for now). It also just so happens that interstellar travel takes place in subspace pathways in the same colors as the Primaries (with varying speed depending on color), and spacecraft is fueled by "ink" in those corresponding primary colors.

It's also revealed in a news chyron in ep 4 that an intergalactic-capable drive had been in development (and had been stalled by bureaucracy) for at least 20 years, and is now ready to deploy. It's referred to as a Trinity drive, and required Primary Red's approval before it could officially launch. I think it's pretty safe to assume it's a form of propulsion that combines all 3 colors, however the in-universe physics work in that case. At the moment, it's been shown that using the wrong type of ink in a color drive will cause an explosion and a tear in space at best (at worst, we don't know yet), so whatever science went into developing a drive that combines colors must have been fairly dangerous (or potentially threatens to weaken whatever power the Primaries hold over LAW citizens).

Secondary Green

Background details are vital lore sources in Monkey Wrench. If you paid close attention near the beginning of ep 1 (and can easily read backwards text), you already know what's in the box the boys pick up in ep 2: something called "Secondary Green." It was evidently once in Chester's possession, but by the time Kara caught up to him, he'd already sent it on its way to LAW.

The second and third episodes refer to the Cataclysm being caused by terrans. The third episode explains the green corruption's effect on life forms, and LAW subsequently quarantining it to prevent its spread. It also shows Secondary Green corrupting the bit of Them that gets too close into the horrific black-green monster that overtakes the Bucket. The fourth ep has Jaw Bone directly refer to the terrans' "false idol" in reference to the Cataclysm.

While I was typing later paragraphs, I hit upon a possibility I hadn't even considered for what Secondary Green could be. So now, I've got 2 potential reads:

1. Secondary Green was the humans' attempt at recreating the Primaries' power for themselves. Whether this was to undermine LAW or to try to join the galactic stage at the Primaries' level has yet to be seen, but either way, it ended up biting humanity in the ass. Secondary Green and/or a byproduct of it/its creation ended up destroying Earth and a good chunk of its neighboring Milky Way space, and landed whatever humans remain squarely on LAW's shit list.

Now, those of you who remember me from pre-2018 Tumblr also know I'm pretty heavily into Mass Effect. That universe's version of the Milky Way also was governed by an alien-run coalition: the Citadel, which tightly controlled the means to interstellar travel (although the Citadel species did not create these means, they just found and activated them first). Thus, the similarities to the idea of a three-pronged alien government holding the keys to interstellar travel and commerce and forcing you to play nice if you want in have been resonating in the back of my mind whenever I watch Monkey Wrench.

The similarities end in that MW's answer to the Protheans are still very much alive and active, and are directly overseeing galactic travel, commerce, and government. There aren't established mass relays, but every ship contains its own "relay" in the form of ink drives. These can open portals into respective colors of subspace to get from one side of the galaxy to another faster than conventional propulsion (so far, red is the fastest, and blue seems to be the median speed everyday schmoes like our boys can access). And, most importantly, the means of this travel are less an external technological development and more appear to be tied to the nature of the Primaries themselves; these beings are not just obeyed, but worshiped (see Scratch's oaths in ep 3 and the red officer greeting Shrike and Armstrong exchange in ep 4).

However, there are still two very important similarities between these two settings that I think should be kept in mind:

i. Trouble started when humans started sticking their fingers into the galactic government's pie. In Mass Effect, it was shoehorning Shepard into the Spectre program and wriggling humanity's way into the Citadel Council. In Monkey Wrench, it was messing with fundamental forces it didn't yet understand and (maybe) creating human-made Great Value primaries, which resulted in at least one: Secondary Green.

ii. Control over interstellar travel—specifically, access to subspace—is a cornerstone of power. In Mass Effect, you need a specific form of reactor in order to engage the mass relays and "cheat" your way to FTL travel. These relays are heavily guarded and regulated by the Citadel; humanity famously learned this when it activated Relay 314 near Pluto and got a knock-knock from the police in the form of a turian armada. In Monkey Wrench, you need to equip specific color drives and fuel up at ink stations, which presumably are subject to LAW regulation and pricing.

In both settings, Earth appears to have taken a look at the galaxy already being run by someone else and immediately thought, "but how do I get around this?"

Engineering Secondary Green was MW Earth's answer to this question. Unfortunately, it backfired and drove humanity to (functional) extinction and criminal status.

2. Secondary Green is an unintended fusion of Primaries Yellow and Blue. This would explain their current-day absence (provided they don't directly appear in later episodes), and the subsequent fall of LAW enforcement into disorder that Armstrong alludes to in ep 4. Humanity was up to something that attracted the Primaries' attention—perhaps tapping into pocket dimensions, like the one embedded in Shrike's head?—and maybe things went awry. One way or another, Primaries Yellow and Blue's intervention ended in them fusing into a new anti-entity, Secondary Green. Instead of fostering life, their combined and imbalanced power corrupted it.

Left to their own devices (and likely hawkish methods, given Red oversees enforcement), Primary Red sealed off Earth's part of the galaxy and declared humanity LAW's enemy. The quarantine for justifiable safety/life preservation reasons, the outlawing likely to create the narrative that humanity was entirely to blame and not at all any fault of Primary interference (and maybe some vengeance for losing their comrades).

Or maybe, Red is covering their tracks.

LAW and Order

So the League of Aligned Worlds (LAW—yes, it's an acronym) is the current empire ruling civilized space in the Milky Way galaxy, under direct command of the Primaries (or at least Primary Red). There are three established branches: enforcement/military (red, which Shrike was once and has since defected from), science (yellow, which Dr. Agness impersonated), and commerce (blue, as represented by Killix and Sixty-Two, who appear to be led by an as-yet unseen Commander Tezzoree).

Being a centralized civilization, LAW has certain cultural and legal standards it expects its citizens to observe. Commerce and community are enabled by way of implanted universal translators á là Star Trek, but with one specific caveat: swearing is not allowed. It's so not allowed that it's physically punishable through painful translator auditory feedback—interestingly, people in earshot get punished this way as well just for hearing it.

Maybe it's a form of socialization, in that LAW hopes you're nice enough not to want to hurt your fellow citizens by swearing? Or that your fellow citizens, having had pain inflicted on them, will browbeat you into compliance? Either way, it's a window into current LAW space being severely authoritarian in both the moral and legal senses.

This extreme authoritarian approach doesn't prevent corruption, however. Corporate lobbyists exist, as demonstrated by Chester in ep 1, and LAW officials patronizing vice industries like sex work (see the end of ep 3) is not unusual. And current LAW is disorganized to the point of each division being largely ignorant of what's going on in the others: Neither Killix nor Sixty-Two were aware Shrike is a defector, nor do they bat an eye at him admitting as such. Armstrong is able to impersonate a red officer with either stolen or purchased equipment, and even he's astonished that LAW keeps such loose tabs on itself that they still have Shrike registered as an active officer. Dr. Agness is able to get away with impersonating a LAW scientist, and the LAW representatives who collect her don't appear especially ruffled by it.

It's possible that this rigid adherence to authority and subsequent breakdown in the ability to enforce it is due to Primary Red being the only Primary left. The harder you clench your fist, the more sand slips through your fingers, and all that. However it happened, Red is at the moment the only one at the wheel, and they don't seem to be able to keep it together on their own.

aight, so where's this leave us

so for now, I think these are where we may be headed:

a: Shrike was genetically engineered to be in the running as a peer to/defense against the Primaries, but aligned with Earth. He has a means to access a pocket dimension/subspace, could possibly be a source of ink (either as secretion or in the form of his blood), is an exceptional marksman, and possesses anthropomorphic form and (allegedly) intellect. The problem is, he turned out anti-authoritarian, impulsive, and kinda stupid. He was disposed of at some point and now wanders space as the only one of his kind.

b: The same program that produced Shrike also created Secondary Green. Unfortunately, something happened—whether through accident or external manipulation—that turned it into a rampaging force of destruction. We have yet to see whether humans really did just monumentally fuck up, or if LAW is rewriting history.

c: LAW is on its way to collapse through Primary Red's mismanagement. Whether said mismanagement is through the other Primaries going missing on their own, or through a power grab on Red's part is the main mystery.

hooray done for now oh god

#long post #monkey wrench #monkey wrench spoilers #really fuckin' long post

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