#primordial one

[anilyan]

It’s my birthday, so I’m taking the chance to spread my agenda! ^^

Do you remember what the scribe of Enkanomiya said? “The Primordial One may have been Phanes.” Wouldn’t that confusion be understandable if Phanes both was and wasn’t the Primordial One? Or rather, if was just one part of the Primordial One, aka his soul?

I will argue that Venti is Phanes, and also two things about Phanes (that are technically their own theory):

Phanes is the soul of the Primordial One, just like what Cocouik was to Ochkan

Phanes was created through the Chemical Marriage between the Primordial One and Istaroth

Yes, I am coming back with a refined version of my old “Venti is Phanes” theory, after studying and organizing my thoughts and what I knew about the lore. The old post was pretty messy.

(I actually spent weeks preparing posts about other aspects of the lore, but meanwhile we got the moons web event that kinda ruined my time to shine, along with some leaked artifacts that basically confirmed much of what I was theorizing about, so I missed my opportunity and the things I was about to bring up won’t feel as special anymore. To feel a bit better, I decided to go back to my true agenda - Venti brainrot, that is. But I will still incorporate important lore parts that I studied into this post, and expand on them properly over time.)

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Section 1: What is Phanes? 2 theories:

First, let me remind you of what the book Before Sun and Moon says:

“The Primordial One may have been Phanes. It had wings and a crown, and was birthed from an egg, androgynous in nature. But for the world to be created, the egg's shell had to be broken. However, Phanes, the Primordial One, used the eggshell to separate the "universe" and the "microcosm of the world."”

The next theories about Phanes, that I will present next followed by connecting it with Venti, may be true at the same time:

» Theory 1: Phanes was born from a Chemical Marriage between the Primordial One and Istaroth

Many ties between the PO and Istaroth are obvious, not just because she was very very likely a Shade, but also because she was probably the Moon-themed White Queen to the PO’s Sun-themed Red King, who joined in a Chemical Marriage. That produced the egg/pearl/wtv that birthed Phanes, necessary to the creation of the world.

Please notice that there is evidence that, at some point, Istaroth was the Ancient Seelie who married the Traveler from Afar, but that is not incompatible with the fact that she was bound to the PO first. In fact, I think that the fact that she was likely the Ancient Seelie is a crucial aspect, especially given the crown that she dropped, which in turn was probably the golden-ring artifact created by the Rhine Maidens / moons who confered power to the PO. I have posts about that on the way.

Let me explain. I will summarize what a chemical marriage is (I will eventually make a post fully dedicated to this concept, and to show in detail why all the pairs I mention from genshin fit this doomed narrative).

The chemical marriage / chemical wedding is a concept in alchemy that represents an union of opposites: male and female, sun and moon, gold and silver, sulphur and mercury, body and spirit, red King and white Queen. DON’T mistake this with actual marriages or ship stuff, btw.

It’s meant to produce a new and improved product, the Rebis (an androgynous being, sometimes called the Philosopher’s child), or according to some tales, the Philosopher's Stone. That stone is a mythic alchemical substance capable of turning base metals such as mercury into gold or silver.

(I can’t help but recall that Venus/the morning star, aka Istaroth, in Chinese, is called Jīn-xīng (金星), the golden planet of the metal element - and Istaroth and her rhine maidens/moons/fates are likely responsible for the golden ring/crown mentioned in the drama Der Ring des Nibelungen.)

According to Jakob, the Seal of Chymical Marriage can be used to seal off the source of life, aka the Primordial Sea, which sounds similar to creating a world/pearl/philosopher’s stone/egg/dream bubble that floats in the sea of quanta or wtv is the logic used across Hoyoverse’s worlds. Basically, a necessary process to create the world, or perhaps reshape it and change it to be inhospitable for dragons yet hospitable for humans, essentially what the Primordial One did at the very beginning. In other words, the eggsehll was used to separate the sea, a sea of elements and souls and such that granted shapeshifting and abilities to the dragons, like a sort of hivemind that is incompatible with the individualism of humans. For more info on that, check the Men of Lithin book.

The Chemical Marriage is hinted at by Albedo, through the stages of the Magnum Opus in his Ascension - although in the game, the 2 last stages are swapped, with Rubedo coming before Citrinitas (perhaps to reinforce the goal to obtain gold) in the game.

That process also sometimes involves a dove. It’s in consideration to the 3 parts of a person, body (the king), soul (the seelie) and spirit (the dove), and in Christianity, the dove often represents the Holy Spirit. The marriage is sometimes blessed by a descending dove from starry heaven. The dove sometimes is the one that brings the ring. There are other trinities that can be associated with this.

Last but not least, here are all the pairs I could think of from Genshin that execute this, that I will elaborate in detail on a different post. They are made of a Seelie or prophetic being who shared forbidden knowledge with a King, who tried to save humanity by creating a hivemind, bringing tragedy: Traveler from Afar and Seelie (who may still be Istaroth), Decarabian and Amos, Zhongli and Guizhong, Deshret and the Goddess of Flowers, Liloupar and Ormazd, Remus and Sybilla, Ochkan and Ixlel… and potentially in the future either the Traveler with the Abyss Twin, or the Traveler with Paimon.

We can also compare Istaroth and PO to Chronus and Anake, two serpentine beings who created the egg that birthed the world. But according to some mythologies, what came from the egg was Phanes instead.

It’s technically more complicated than that, here is a list of alternate possibilities I found for his origins:

Phanes hatched from the egg of Chronos and Ananke

Phanes hatched from the cosmic/orphic egg placed in Aether (who was the personification of the bright upper sky and another son of Chronos)

Phanes is a first-born deity who emerged from the abyss and gave birth to the universe, and is a god of creation, light and goodness. The Abyss part is extra intriguing because the world has an abyss half, and some in-game books even compare wine with the Abyss, and also with the idea that drinking the abyss/wine is a way to acquire Forbidden Knowledge - check this video for more on that.

Sometimes Nyx is also involved - she is Phanes counterpart. In some tales, she is Phane’s wife, sometimes his daughter, and in others she creates an egg from which Phanes is born, so wtv. I don’t know who Nyx is (besides being likely The Night Mother from the book of the Six Pygmies), but it’s pretty clear that the Abyss half is under her responsibility in some way.

If you refer back to the quote from the book Before Sun and Moon…:

It doesn’t clarify if Phanes and the PO are the same entity or not, the scribe just decides to treat them as the same. I have my own explanation for it, in the next section precisely, but my answer would be “more or less”

It says that Phanes was birthed from an egg, but then proceeds to give a different purpose to the egg, or at least to the eggshell

Here is my interpretation: The PO and Istaroth created an egg/pearl with a chemical marriage, and Phanes was born from an egg. Once he broke the eggshell to be born, the eggshell was used (unclear if by the PO or Phanes) to change Teyvat, to create the world as it is now: a bubble separated from the rest of the universe by a fake sky, less hospitable for dragons, where Abyssal matter and the Primordial Sea stuff are separated from humans, etc. So technically, yeah, Phanes was involved in at least one step for creating the world, and that guaranteed step was the breaking of the eggshell.

This is not in the book, but in the Gnostic Chorus custcene, there is a black serpent tied surrounding the gnostic/genesis pearl. The pearl and an egg are sort of interchangeable, and according to mythology, Phanes is a figure that has the serpent Ananke coiled around him. So that matches up well.

» Theory 2: Phanes is the Primordial One’s soul, just like what Cocouik was to Ochkan

Och-kan, a half-human half-dragon being who hated dragons, sabotaged the plans of his father (the Sage of the Stolen Flame) by following the human Pyro Sovereign Xbalanque - and, after Xbalanque’s death, forbid people from worshiping either the Night Kingdom or even other gods. In his quest to save humans, he became a Tyrant, whose erratic behavior only got worse after excavations that led him to meet Ixlel.

Ixlel was a prophetic figure that used to lead the dragon civilization of the area in the past, who at first was an ally of Och-kan but, upon sharing secret knowledge and prophecies with him, was betrayed. She got revenge by convincing him to use his draconic nature to power his city, by putting his Soul in the Core of Chu'ulel (who later became Cocuik, freed only much later by Bona, after the Cataclysm). Even after Och-kan was overthrown by rebels, he couldn’t die because of that split between body and soul, and his now fully dragon body was used by his father to be an Abyssal conduit, until the interference of the Traveler in the present.

This story has many more details, and once again matches the concept of Chemical Marriage and prophecies that doom Kings, so you can check my post on the topic for proper details.

There are several similarities between Venti and Cocouik:

Color scheme and overall shape is the same, that was literally what everyone first thought when seeing it

In wisp form, he had 3 wings, or rather, 3 separate parts that didnt even connect to his body, they just floated behind him, sort of like the wings of the twins at the start of the game, and exactly like the 3 wings of Cocouik. And in human form, his Vision has a single wing with 3 parts.

The power that Cocouik displays against the dragon resembles the power that Venti lends to the traveler to use against Dvalin in the flying sequences. That is the power to supress the corrosive power of the Abyss - it’s what Venti uses, and it’s in the description of Cocouik’s ability too

The description of Cocouik also mentions a halo, within which the Traveler is protected form the Abyss, and halos are often associated with angels

So… if all of those things are comparable with Venti, why would the fact that Cocouik is the soul of a dragon not be?

Oh, right, there was a sus leak that broke my mind months ago and seemed completely nonsensical, but since I started cooking this theory, I can’t help but look back at it. It claimed that Venti was the guide of the Primordial One. Humm… yeah, if Venti was the soul of the PO, I could see that. Maybe he is assuming Istaroth’s role now that she is gone in supporting the PO?

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List of EVERYTHING sus and interesting about Venti

Some of the following things will correlate to the theories presented above, while others are just fun fancts that I didn’t know where to place.

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Appearance

» Wings:

I already discussed the relevancy of Venti’s angel form and how that ties with being a Seelie, and potentially cursed at first. But the wings are also relevant for another reason: Phanes is described has having wings.

But there is more:

Both in his fake Vision and in wisp form, he only has wings on one side of his body. Just like Cocouik. Possibly hinting at an incomplete nature, or at a duality of natures (dragon and seelie, or the others I already considered)

The wisp wing is formed sort of by 3 wings/parts, and the same is sort of true for the wing in his Vision. The number 3 might just be a coincidence, but it would also fit well with the connections between a chemical marriage and the involvement of the dove, with that third presence representing how a person has 3 parts, body, soul, and spirit. And I already argued why I think Phanes is the PO’s soul.

It’s also possible that this connects with the idea that angels supposedly have 6 wings. So by just having 3 or 3 parts, that is **half of that, aka half angel/**seelie

Funnily enough, in Archon Form he has a wing at each side, and I can’t fully point why that contrast given the previous 2 cases. It’s similar to what happens to Arlecchino in boss form.

Contrary to what the statues portray, the wings in Archon form don’t connect to his back, instead seemingly fusing with his cloak. In Wisp form, and Cocouik’s case, the wings also didn’t connect. That resembles the wings of the twins at the start of the game, the mechanical wings of The Sage of the Stolen Flame, and the wings of the Seelies/envoys always depicted in murals.

In Archon form, the wings have a circular metallic part further hinting at how the wings might be mechanical/not a part of the body. Besides that, the shape has 3 tips, and strongly resembles the wings of the boss Lord of Eroded Primal Fire / Gosoythoth when imitating the form of the Pyro Sovereign. Once again connecting Venti with dragons, although dragons and seelies are really just variations of the same species.

» Other characteristics:

Phanes is also described as androgynous, which, yeah, Venti definitely is. The androginity also matters in the context of a chemical marriage between a union of opposites, since Phanes is supposed to reunite the trates of both “parents”, and the gender-neutral appearance is not the only fusion relevant here. If he turns out to be part dragon part seelie, that is just as relevant.

One thing lacking in Venti, that Phanes has, is a crown. Not even his Archon form has one, at least, not so far. But some people point out that the base of his beret hat has a golden intricate line that could kinda be interpreted as a mini-crown.

Another interesting point about his appearance is the fact that, in wisp form, the top of his head was shaped like an apple, with even a stem and leaf-shape on top. I will talk about the relevance of apples next.

His whole wisp form heavily resembles Cocouik, the soul of a dragon, and I already went over why that matters in one of my theories. The powers Venti lends to the traveler to shoot against Dvalin also resemble the powers of Cocouik used against Ochkan.

And ofc, he has a Cecilia in his hat, and I will go over the relevance of that.

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“When I first arrived here, I too was like Dvalin, cursed and left to waste”

During the Mondstadt Archon quest, Venti says that "When I first arrived here, I too was like Dvalin, cursed and left to waste".

Here are some guesses of mine that could explain that:

We know that his Archon form presents him as an angel (source: manga, official arts, and in-game arts and statues) and that angels are seelies (thanks to Natlan’s Archon quest). We also know that the Seelies and Moon kingdom fell, probably symbolizing the end of the Unified Civilization, as a consequence of the marriage between a Seelie and a Traveler from afar, who in turn was likely the Second Who Came, who waged war more a less at the same time as Nibelung and his War of Vengeance. Refer to my (future) other theories for more details. What matters here is that, after that event, the Seelies were cursed to lose their minds and original form, thus why they present as we currently see them in-game. And if angels were seelies, that was probably Venti’s fate too, thus why he showed up as a wisp to the bard.

Since he is comparing himself with Dvalin, maybe his curse was instead related with abyssal corruption. We don’t know what happened to the Primordial One who is currently afk, but if Venti was his soul, and considering that Nibelung used forbidden knowledge and maybe even abyssal energy (unsure of how much those two things overlap), perhaps Nibelung tainted the PO in the confrontation.

Alternatively, maybe he was cursed at existence, which could also explain how he somehow got involved with the bard and the rebellion in Mondstadt and possibly didn't have a strong identity before that? If he was derived from the primordial one, and the PO was the Usurper who took the power away from the original dragons, I don’t think it would be unheard of in stories for the off-spring of authority figures to be cursed by those who hated them.

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Knowledge of secret information, and songs of the past, present and future

He is the one narrating the Gnostic Chorus cutscene, so he knows about the origins of Teyvat and other important stuff.

He ruled Mondstadt for a long time alongside Istaroth (the Thousand Winds temple was used to worship both of them), so she might have shared relevant knowledge with him from the period of the Unified Civilization, and even from before that.

He claims to know all songs of the past, present and future, which even denotes knowledge that transcends time, fitting for the son of Istaroth, the Thousand Winds of Time - and also for a Seelie/Angel, which we know he is given his Archon form, who were always prophets.

Istaroth is heavily connected to the moons, who controlled the Fates - past, present, and future - and who were named after song and poetry: Aria, Sonnet, and Canon. The loading screen song, that is the theme of Genshin, is even called Dream Aria. Dream Aria might very well be the Sourcesong that I’m going to elaborate on soon.

Seelies/angels are in turn connected to the moons, and they are at least from the period of the Unified Civilization. They, just like possibly the dragons who originally inhabited Teyvat, know well the value of song. That once again matches with Venti, in part because of his angel archon form, and in part because of how he values song as a way to preserve the truth.

People theorize that Venti is trying to find the Sourcesong, or even knows it already, thus why he knows songs from past, present, and future. According to the Aranara, all songs in the world derive from the Sourcesong, that can diverge into different memories, just like a river diverges into creeks, yet just like creeks eventually flow into the sea, the songs converse.

In other words, that definition might hint at the creation of a hivemind and fusing the souls of the people into a collective conscience, similar to what some God-Kings ended up doing in their attempts at saving humanity and controlling Fate, with Remus being the most relevant since he used the Symphony of Fate to weave the threads, and fates, as if they were strings of an intrument. They only attempted those feats after meeting with Seelies. [Check my future post about Chemical Marriage to see an exhaustive list of all cases of that in genshin]

Venti also canonically states he can read the the rhythmic flow of energy dispersed by the Abyss Order and copy its magic with his lyre - that was how he took down the barriers during the Archon Quest.

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Venti’s strength

Funnily enough, I don’t find this point relevant for my theory, because even if he turns out to be the weakest Archon currently, there can be many explanations for that, and that is not indicative of his original strength. So it’s possible that he was extremelly powerful and still the soul/son of the PO, while being weak now.

But here is a list of what the fandom usually points out, and the different sides of the argument:

Venti is currently weak:

That’s what he claims, justifying it by saying that the strength of an Archon depends on how much faith the people of the Nation have in their Archon. Since he doesn’t actively rule Mondstadt, and people are free from his influence, he sort of implies that they don’t believe in his enough and that he his willing to let his powers pay the price for his ideals

He hasn’t showcased particularly strong powers even when Mondstadt was in crisis, or when trying to stop Signora from taking away the Gnosis.

We also know he has been gone for a long time, returning to Mondstadt during the Stormterror crisis, so it’s possible that he hasn’t regained his powers.

Maybe he was strong when returning to Mondstadt at present, but he delivered the Anemo Authority to Dvalin by the end of the Archon quest, so even if he lied initially, he is actually weaker now.

Venti is currently strong:

People who defend this argue by using Venti’s own definition of what grants power to an Archon, basically by pointing out how, in some ways, he is more worshipped than many other Archons, even if he doesn’t use that to rule the people. He has a Church, people in Mondstadt clearly pray to Barbatos and mention him often, and they completely adhere and live according to his ideals

As such, there is no reason for him to have lost the powers he once presented, like when he terraformed the land of Mondstadt and also completely changed its weather (after Old Mondstadt got rid of Decarabian, since at the time Mondatadt was covered in snow)

Consequently, Venti simply pretended to be weak out of respect for the autonomy and independence of the humans

Some people who believe this think he was just pretending until the Gnosis was taken, while others think he handed out a fake Gnosis and didn’t even try to resist Signora, and there is even people who think he lost the Gnosis but that hasn’t affected his powers

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Cecilias

The only characters in the game connected with Cecilias are: Venti, Istaroth (we see that in Ei’s second story quest), and Albedo (a prototype primordial human, who uses Cecilias as his Ascencion material too)

Cecilias were confirmed in an event, and then at the start of Natlan, to represent “the true feelings of the prodigal son”. But that information actually is as old as his announcement, way back in 2019.

An inactive user in this post found that the name Cecilia possibly came from a Latin word meaning "blind", and according to this source, “Cecilia is as much to say as the lily of heaven, or a way to blind men.” SexyPoro also commented that it’s a variant of the word caecus, that can mean other variations of blind, such as Devoid of light, Vague, Aimless, Invisible, Hidden, Secret, Obscure

Fun fact, Caerus, that sounds a lot like caecus, is an alternatively spelling of Kairos, another of Istaroth’s names. Kairos is a Greek god that resembles Hermes, and who needs wind to fly. Guess that might explain why she ruled Mondstadt alongside Venti for a while, like the Mondstadt saying goes, seeds of stories need to be brought by the wind before they can be cultivated by time.

The Saint Cecilia is a virgin martyr in christianity, and the patron of musicians, composers and poets.

Cecilias are also an important symbol in HI3. They are the symbol of the House Schariac, known for Divine Maidens, warriors who have a chance of taking in the Holy Blood. The Abyss Flower in that game, a ‘Divine Key’ and weapon from the civilization’s Previous Era made specifically to kill herrschers, is also a Cecilia. It’s very possible that Istaroth/Kairos turns out to be an expy of HI3’s Cecilia. She’s known for wielding the Abyss Flower.

The closest real life inspiration would be the flower trillium, which represent the Holy Trinity in Christianity, in turn correlated with the chemical marriage (remember when I mentioned the addition of the dove so that the number 3 represented body, soul and spirit? And how those 3 parts are important for parallels between Cocouik and Ochkan?)

Cecilias look a lot like triquetras, once again connected with the Holy Trinity in Christianism, while in Celtic culture it represents the triple goddesses (3 goddesses that function as a whole, like the Moirai or Norse Norns, who in turn are a bit like the Tribbies of HSR and the 3 moons/fates of genshin). Triquetras are a recurring symbol in Genshin.

Everything here hints at the importance of Venti’s birth and lineage. And while he might just be connected to Istaroth and things stop there, and it would be enough to justify that importance, it’s still possible that it means a little more.

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Venti and apples, the fruit of Fate

Here is a list of every connection between Venti and apples that I could find:

In his wisp form, the top of his head is shaped like an apple, including stem and leaf.

He is always asking for apples, even as payment. He also offers them sometimes. He also really enjoys apple cider.

While terraforming Mondstadt, he created the Golden Apple Archipelago

Speaking of golden apples, he literally offers one in one of his birthday arts, and the text that accompanies it is one of the most suspicious things ever: “It is written that there is a whole tiny world hidden inside an apple core. Here, this half is for you. Let's take a stroll in the tiny little world. But remember to keep it a secret because... you're the only one I want to bring there.” Please keep this in mind.

Mondstadt is a land full of apples. There are a few apple trees in Liyue too, and ofc thishas to do with the inspirations behind Mondstadt, so it’s a tenue connection, but still fitting.

Especially in anime, Apples are often depicted as the fruit of Fate (look no further than Mawaru Penguindrum), and in Inazuma, the girl giving Fortune Slips is called Gendou Ringo, with Ringo meaning ‘apple’ in Japanese.

In Sethian Gnosticism, in the Biblical story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, they succumb to the serpent’s temptation and eat the forbidden fruit (often imagined as an apple) from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. That is depicted as a good thing, and as the first step towards freedom from Yaldabaoth (a demiurge, chaos entity and false god, who keeps the souls of people trapped in physical bodies).

I can’t help but wonder if the connection with apples means that he has secret knowledge and awareness of fates and the future, and is waiting for someone else to learn it too, to assume control of Fate or to break free.

If he derived from the PO, that would also made him sort of serpent/dragon-like, or at least part dragon part seelie/angel. He is probably holding fate in his hands - and if an apple contains a tiny world, according to what he said, holding it is not too different from holding the Genesis Pearl - once again tying him with the Gnostic Chorus.

The fact that Venti has only offered one half of the apple in his birthday art may connect with the fact that Phanes only rules half of the world, while the other half, potentially the Abyss, belongs to Nix, the Night Mother. It may alternatively connect to the idea of Chemical Marriage and union of opposites, since that seems to be a fundamental pattern in Teyvat, as I already mentioned.

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Sacramental Wine, Dionysus and Phanes

Some myths say that Phanes was Dionysus (god of wine… amongst other things), or Eros (god of love, yes I’m simplifying), and oh boy isn’t Venti the god of all of that too? Although this is complicated since it has to do with gods being iterations of past gods and such.

Okay, this gets less obvious now. Phanes is a first-born deity who emerged from the abyss and gave birth to the universe, and is a god of creation, light and goodness. The Abyss part is extra intriguing because the world has an abyss half, and some in-game books even compare wine with the Abyss, and also with the idea that drinking the abyss/wine is a way to acquire Forbidden Knowledge.

Let’s keep talking about wine. I have to start by recommending this video by Ashikai that I used for a lot of the info that follows.

Sacramental Wine is consumed after sacramental bread, in celebration of the Eucharist. The Catholic Church maintains that by the consecration, the substances of the bread and wine actually become the substances of the body and blood of Christ, and in genshin, a similar process happens when a being consumes the body/blood of gods - sometimes even inheriting powers and an extended lifespan, although corruption as well.

The different types of liquids/elixirs in genshin can even be compared to real life ones: leyline liquid is nectar, primordial seawater is absinthe, and forbidden knowledge is wine. Refer to Ashikai’s video for explanations on the first two, but regarding wine, in the book A Drunkard’s Tale, a character says: “What you humans call wine, we wolves call the abyss”. I already shared how many things connected to Venti relate to the Abyss, from Cecilias to the origins of Phanes.

Fungi (more specifically, yeast) are required to make wine, for the processes of fermentation, and you can see in the list of game examples below how much fungi are relevant in the process of eucharistic rites and how often they are sacramental, as a way to grant powers or memories. Mushrooms in a circle also form the so-called fairy-rings, and besides the importance of rings in the context of genshin as objects that confer power to god-kings, they are also considered a portal. They are also called witch’s rings.

» Mondstadt and wine

Mondstadt is heavily known for its wines, and not just for the production of it. During the distiling process, the portion of alcohol that evaporates is even callled Angel’s Share, the name of Diluc’s tavern. Angels, or seelies, in turn tend to have alcoholic beverages associated with them (really, watch Ashikai’s video for more evidence).

Wine breewing is also heavily connected to witches, who have strong connections with Mondstadt. The witches are also connected to Venti, as revealed in the second Windblume Festival.

Speaking of witches, I already mentioned how witches’ rings or fairy rings are made of mushrooms and considered portals.

Albedo is a famous alchemist created by the witch Rhinedottir. Alcohol is one of the possible solvents used in alchemy, known as alkahest. In Lulian alchemy, quintessence is a solvent distilled from wine, sometimes called aether. Alkahest is the ascension material used for the sword Cinnabar Spindle, and cinnabar in turn refers to the Rubedo stage of the Magnum Opus. That’s typically the final stage, although genshin swaps it, with citrinitas/gold, but usually the Magnum Opus ties with the Chemical Marriage - you know, the thing I said that created Phanes.

Oceanids are often associated with turning water into Wine. The weapon Dialogues of the Desert Sages supports that idea. The oceanid of Springvale, also sometimes called a fairy, blessed/cursed Diona to always make great alcoholic beverages. Oceanids also strongly resemble Hydro Idolons, and Idolons are the kind of ghost most associated with Istaroth, even being one of the names for the Sin Shades from Enkanomiya.

In the Alchemy Ascension event, conveniently said by Venti while standing with Diona, he says “If alchemy has the power to transform matter… I wonder if it could also be used to turn water into wine?”

Kaeya’s Skewers are soaked in Death after Noon, Kaeya’s favorite drink, and if you check the list of examples, you can see that the medicine for Caribert required drawing water in the early AfterNoon, and it was used to water the mushrooms growing on the body of Caribert’s dead mom. The drink is also made with absinthe. The drink, or Kaeya’s skewers, are also mentioned in many sus quests, like Canotila quest about dissolving people and their memories, and in a dialogue with Xamaran.

» Examples of sacramental food/wine in genshin

The desert is full of such examples, from Apep who got to eat King Deshret after his death to gain his knowledge, to the Consecrated Beasts (”consecreated” even means “blessed”.

Jacob in Fontaine also turned into a Iniquitous Baptist abyssal creature after consuming the flesh of a dragon, and it’s possible that other abyss creatures - not hillichurls - went through a similar process, especially considering how all of them have a type named after religious positions (even mages, since the word comes from “Magi” who was a Zoroastrian priest).

Rukkhashava mushrooms, in CN, are called Rukkhadevata Sacramental Mushrooms. Before the description change, it said that the Akademia Sages consumed them to honor the sacrifice of the goddess, and remember her wisdom, like in a Eucharistic ritual. This mushroom is based on the Reishi mushroom (believed to give immortality in Taoism). Wanderer, who tried to ascend to godhood, and Collei who contains remnants of a snake god, need this as an ascension material.

In the first Caribert quest, we see a red/cinnabar version of these mushrooms. They grew in the body of Clothar’s dead wife, and while mushrooms grow on wood, Norse mythology believes that humans were carved from trees. He also had to draw water in the early afternoon (Death After Noon is the name of Kaeya’s favorite drink) to tend to them, and for the medicine. The medicine for Caribert created from those mushrooms had to be blessed by a god, and it followed a similar recipe to the Memory Recipe taught by the Aranara: a Rukkhashava mushroom variation, a lotus (Kalpalata/Barsam), and a purple flower (Sumeru rose/Yajna grass). It’s a sacramental beverage.

Fun fact, the taxonomic name for the Reishi mushroom is ganoderma, and there are mushroom-like aquatic ascension materials called Sea Ganoderma in genshin. Their description says “In the folktales told in a certain land, these mouthless, noseless creatures are the transformed souls of children who died young.” They are used by Yae Miko (guards a Irminsul tree) and Kazuha (ganoderma really like mapple trees)

Xamaran, the giant mushroom in the Chasm, is often taken as the irminsul tree of the area (it even looks like a dragon tree), or instead as a mushroom growing in the body of the main Irminsul (like how mushrooms grow on trees). The name sounds like Shahmaran, a mythological being from Persian mythology who was half human half snake, and the name can be broken into "queen/king of serpents" - and serpents in genshin are somewhat interchangeable with dragons. There are tales both about the queen and the king. What matters is that in the Queen's tale, her flesh leads to recovery, her broth leads to knowledge, and her extract leads to death.

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Confused timelines and slumbers

I don’t think there are many instances of this, but there are a few examples that fans point of Venti possibly confusing timelines - either because the wind is free from the confines of time, or because of Venti’s connections with Istaroth and even poential prophetic abilities.

One is during Mondstadt’s AQ, when he tells the Traveler to meet at the “usual place” when we have never met him there before.

Another is a voiceover hidden in a menu, where he greets the Traveler with “Ah, Traveler, we meet again! What? You don't remember me? Ahaha, well, allow me to join you on your quest once again.”

He had to dissapear and go into slumber multiple times, usually after seemingly using a lot of his power: some time after establishing new Mondstadt and making sure that the humans got it (we see him waking up in the manga and realizing how corrupt the aristocracy had become), some time after helping Vennessa win and form the Knights and still taking some time to raise Dvalin, and after the fight against Durin. People theorize it’s only after moments where he spends lots of power, but since we don’t know the exact circunstances that made him go to slumber for the first 2 examples, it’s hard to say.

He also wakes up in this location in the manga, that strongly resembles a location shown in the trailer of the anime, so people guess it will be important. The location even shares one of the symbols of Venti and Istaroth (edited pics from https://x.com/Yivvee/status/1899111907627516062/photo/2)

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Illusions, fake identities and lots of pretending

Voicelines from Archons say “About Venti” instead of “About Barbatos”, although all other gods are refered to with their god name. The exception is Furina for obvious reasons.

Even in the Archon quest, in the same conversation where he tells us about allogenes and Gnosis after the confrontation with Signora, Paimon says that the “Tone-Deaf Bard is just one of the many Barbatos incarnations” - I wonder if the CN text says this as well.

He has shown his illusion abilities by faking the repair of the Lyre right before Signora showed up to steal his Gnosis, which makes some people believe that the Gnosis he gave away was fake.

Winking. He is always winking. In most official arts, and very often in-game too. Why would that be relevant? Because eyes, especially having eyes covered/closed, are very significant in genshin and hint at the ability to perceive the truth instead of the illusion/dream created by the Irminsul. Check my future post about patterns in the Hoyoverse for more info - I will try to list every example there, from Kaeya’s legacy, to fictional Fischl, God-Kings and their artifact sets, and ofc Irmin. He might not be immune to the Irminsul changes, but he certainly tries to combat that with stories.

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Queen Gnosis

Arguably the most important piece in chess, not counting the King and its limitations, and it’s also the piece that Venti had (maybe still has, depending if the theory that he gave away a false Gnosis to Signora is correct or not)

Funnily enough, some connect the chess queen's fluid movement to the moon’s shifting cycles, and queens were often linked to fertility and cosmic balance, just like moons were.

It might also be a hint to him currently representing Istaroth’s role in her absence.

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Dissapearances for long periods, Death and Leylines

In the Orphic tradition, Phanes is said to be a dying and resurrecting god, killed by the Titans who devoured his flesh but rescued by Athena and resurrected by Zheus. Maybe, to which extent, we could correlate the Titans (Athena and Zeus) to the dragons, Istaroth and the Primordial One.

Venti dissapears for long periods of time, and dying and resurrecting could be a way to explain that.

Dionysus, the god of wine - who, like I mentioned before, is often equated with Phanes - dies at the hands of the Titans, and that has been considered the central myth of Orphism. I elaborate more about Orphism, and specifically Orpheus, in a following section.

Dionysus was the patron god of the Orphics, who they connected to death and immortality, and he symbolized the one who guides the process of reincarnation. That strongly resembles Venti’s ability to help souls pass… to wtv is the place of the souls, Irminsul or something, like he did in his story quest, and that is likely what allows souls to reincarnate in Teyvat as well.

Unsure how that works exactly, but Istaroth and Venti definitely have some strange connections with death and leylines. And since this post is about Venti and not his mom, let’s also not forget that he shines in the leyline color multiple times too. In fact, his Archon outfit has more blue than exactly green, and same for his wisp form, although that might be an extension of angels being seelies.

It’s fairly known that the artifact categories correspond to the Primordial One and the 4 Shades, and one of them is the Plume of Death. It’s usually associated with Ronova, the Shade of Death, but even so Venti is heavily associated with feathers. Even in Natlan, those who carry an ancient name have it engraved in a feather-shaped obsidian toten, in turn having connections to the Night Kingdom.

Venti and Istaroth are mostly associated with Cecilias, but they also have some light connections with dandelions - more specifically, Venti is the only anemo character that dandelions are drawn towards after being blown, and the parts that fly are basically seeds of dead flowers. That ties in well with their quote about “seeds of stories” (in other words, the memories of people), and their connections with leylines and souls of people who passed on. In Teyvat, souls are often refered to as flowers in metaphors (I will expand on that in a future post about symbols in the game).

Venti also has a few connections with Windwheel Asters, basically stars (and Aster is also the beginning of Astaroth, one of the inspirations behind Istaroth). And stars and constellations are in turn heavily connected to the fates of people in Teyvat.

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Similarities to Orpheus the Bard

For the Greeks, Orpheus was a legendary bard, and the founder and prophet of the so-called "Orphic" mysteries. He perfected the lyre invented by Hermes.

The suffering and death of the god Dionysus at the hands of the Titans has been considered the central myth of Orphism - and I already mentioned before how Dionysus and wine and all of that have their own connections to Venti. There is also the fact that Phanes belongs to the Orphic myth as well, although as a different entity: Dionysus at most, but not Orpheus.

Besides the bard and lyre aspects that clearly match Venti, the fact that Orpheus was a prophet is also very fitting since, as I mentioned before, Venti knows the songs of the past/present/future, and is probably a prophet given how Seelies/Angels always are.

So I propose that Orpheus corresponds to Venti’s bard identity, that he takes to avoid assuming the role of an Archon, while Dionysus/Phanes correspond to his Barbatos aspect.

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Mondstadt, the fairytale land with connections to every part of Teyvat

I couldn’t leave out the Nation that Venti is an Archon of.

First, let’s talk about the period before Venti’s Archonhood, while he was just a wisp caught up in Old Mondstadt:

Decarabian was a participant of the Archon War, that likely took place after the fall of the Unified Civilization when Archons were the solution necessary to help stabilize Teyvat after the disasters brought by the War of Vengeance. Decarabian’s opponent was Andrius/Boreas, who likely came from Snezhnaya, and brought snow and blizzards to all of Teyvat. Mondstadt was completely covered in snow.

To keep the humans in Mondstadt safe, especially from the cold, Decarabian enclosed them in a wind barrier (some, like the Lawrence Clan and possibly the Gunnhildr Clan not yet named that at the time, managed to leave the city). He micromanaged the city, forbid rebellious songs (although the CN version of Venti’s retelling implies that he only accepted hymns), and his winds were so strong that they forced people to bend their backs. He mistook that as respect, unaware that the humans resented him, which later led to their revolution to take down their god.

Becoming a Tyrant in an attempt to protect humanity is not the only similarity he shares with other god-kings. He was trying to attain a Dream, possibly another hivemind project - according to Fragment of Decarabian’s Epic, "If it were not for the song of freedom that shattered the city in an instant, Decarabian's dream would have gone on forever.” He might even have something akin to Deshret’s mausuleum or projects from other god-kings under his tower, the only location in the whole game that, if we try to access it, makes Paimon say something different than the usual: “Watch out! Don't go near there!”. In the cutscene of his death, he looks like a Sun when exploding, further connecting him to sun-kings or red-kings.

We never see his appearance - possibly because Hoyo intends to show he was a dragon or had draconic features, which would make sense given that his tower has arches big enough for a dragon, a floating platform above, and was chosen by Dvalin as a nest. More likely than not, he even had the Authority of Anemo and was a Dragon Sovereign - not just because he was the God of Storms, but because he was associated with a divine throne that was destroyed during the rebellion. That has been officially confirmed now in this post (check pics below), but that was actually never hidden. The og ENG translations were simply bad, and replaced throne with crown for the purpose of rhyming, but you can see that this fan translation by dkniade pointed that it said throne in CN, along with mentions to a god’s seat. ENG translations also still call Decarabian of Anemo Archon, which is simply incorrect because the Archon War wasn’t over yet, but maybe that was because they mistook it as Anemo Sovereign?

It’s unclear how he met Amos - maybe under his tower, closer to Leyline stuff? - but she was almost certainly a Seelie. Amos became Decarabian’s lover who later joined the rebellion against him. Her appearance, white white hair and blue clothes, already gives some slight seelie and moon themes. She was the only member of the rebellion with a name (Either because the name of other members was forgotten to history, or maybe something more significant, like them rejecting their names and the roles they represented, or maybe names in Old Mondstadt were just the things people did, like being a Bard. I’m not counting last names, since we have those). She had prophetic dreams, as you can see in her quotes in Amos’ Bow, and the biblical figure of Amos was a prophet - and Seelies were prophets too. Seelies also often sided and protected humanity, which is what she did by joining the rebellion. Last but not least, she might have been the one who killed Decarabian (again implied in her bow), and it probably takes a non-human powerful being to do so.

We don’t know much about the Nameless Bard, and it’s not even clear if his name was lost to time, outright reject, hidden for the purposes of preserving his identity from Irminsul erasure… but he was the rebel who led the rebellion, and who, after his death, Venti took the form of. I can’t help but wonder if he is a reincarnation of other rebels from history: The young man (probably an Alberich, but that’s another theory) from the period of the Unified Civilization, that was possessed by the Traveler From Afar and went to the Ancient Seelie to free her. It’s possible that he later reincarnated into story Ajax (the one who ended in Hyperborea) drawn by vague memories of the seelie he once loved. My other guesses, besides the Nameless Bard, are the Crimson-Eyed Youth who rebelled against Och-kan. I am undecided if currently he is represented by Alice or Childe, to be honest - in part because Idk to which extenct we should separate the identities of the female Traveler from Afar and the male figures she possesses.

After Decarabian was taken down, Andrius realized he wasn’t fit to rule humans and became a ghost, the rebellion leader was dead, so was Amos, and the red-haired warrior felt hurt and left. So the Archon position went to Venti, who took the form of his friend and terraformed Mondstadt, but didn’t take the Divine Throne. That might be the actual reason why he is the “weakest of the archons” if that really is true. He also tried to not exert authority over humans.

Official translation vs Literal fan translation vs Recent official post

Alright, and what about present Mondstadt?

Aristocracy period: Venti ruled Mondstadt alongside Istaroth for a while, with the Temple of the Thousand Winds dedicated to the worship of both. It’s unclear when Istaroth was forgotten by time, and why Venti had to get into slumber, but he was gone for a long period and, when he woke up, the Aristocracy of Mondstadt (especially the Lawrence Clan) had become arrogant, betrayed its principles, and abused their power to crush the freedom of people. The temple was converted into a fighting Arena, much was destroyed (including the original library), and Natlan’s refuggees (Vennessa’s tribe) was turned into slaves and gladiators. Venti helped fix that and, after realizing that full freedom could backfire, established the Knights of Favonius and the Four Winds, with Venessa as part of both groups.

Dvalin: It is unclear when exactly Dvalin and Barbatos met, but the poet in Breeze Amidst the Forest (implied to be Venti himself) says it occurred in "ancient times, when the gods walked among us in their prime." This puts their meeting somewhere between Barbatos' ascension 2600 years ago, and his departure from Mondstadt between 2000 and 1000 years ago. Venti helped people realize that the dragon didn’t pose any danger, and raised Dvalin, teaching him to speak the human tongue. It’s very possible that Dvalin is a reincarnated Anemo Dragon Sovereign, and that Venti entrusted the Anemo Authority to him. 500 ago, during the cataclysm, Venti and Dvalin fought against Durin’s attack, Venti had to go into slumber and Dvalin got poisoned. Mondstadt’s Prologue was all about about helping save Dvalin from Abyssal corruption and show to the people of the present that he is still a good dragon.

Mondstadt and witches: The witches deserve their own post, but it’s really interesting how they have such strong ties to Mondstadt, with two witches even taking residence there temporarily (Rhinedottir somewhat, and Alice). The second Windblume Event took us to the floating island where the witches used to reunite over tea, and for the first time told us about the members of the Hezenxirkel. It also told us of how they at some point challenged the Anemo Archon, for unknown reasons, but he befriended them instead. Interesting detail: In the cutscene about the witches, there is a moment that display’s Istaroth’s star, the same that is the symbol of Khaenri’ah - I have a post about Istaroth and that symbol almost ready too, so I won’t elaborate here, so points for another connection between witches-khaenri’ah-istaroth-venti. The Imaginarium Theater, a domain from the witches outside of space and time, also has a portal in Mondstadt. Oh, and the summer events are always connected to Mondstadt AND the witches.

Mondstadt and Wine: I already have a whole section about that, but it’s definitely no coincidence. It connects to witches, it connects to the Abyss, it connects to seelies (Angel’s Share), it connects to so many things… please go read my section if you haven’t.

Abyss: The portal is located in Musk Reef - one of the areas terraformed by Venti after he ascended, that was previously he tip of the tallest snowy mountain, known as Pilos Peak. Currently, the island looks suspiciously like multiple moons overlapping (that symbol that everyone went crazy over after the recent web event, despite being present in the game for a while). Its structure is divided into the "Abyss Corridor," which connects worlds (Teyvat was disconnected from other worlds, or at least that’s what the Legend of the Shattered Halberd book implies), and the "Abyssal Moon Spire," which leads to the unknown (possibly the same spire created by the Seelie Ancestor). In each level, we collect stars.

Flowers: Some of the flowers prominent or exclusive to Mondstadt have very interesting meanings. I already went over Cecilias, so go read that section because it’s huge; Dandelions represent wishes that are carried over to the Anemo Archon when blown, but their seeds can also represent the souls and stories of people, which in a way is almost intercheangeable given how the wishing screen kinda grants us the souls of campanions; Windwheel Asters represent stars, also very relevant for Genshin given the constellation system; Lampgrass only glow at night, so they are part of the series of flowers that change with the moon; Roses don’t seemingly exist in Mondstadt, yet two characters (Lisa and Noelle, and Rosaria has thorns in her attacks) wear them, and associated with secrets in Monds (see Noelle Hangout), and are in the cover of a big chunk of fairytales.

The important citizens of Mondstadt: There’s just so many that I have to break this in parts, but I really don’t like it when people dismiss Mondstadt, because everything there was a well-done setup to future content:

Kaeya is one of the few Khaenri’ah survivors, and from the Alberich dynasty no less, who not only took control of Khaenri’ah after King Irmin felt “indisposed”, but also was important far before that, being possibly one of the oldest lineages of Khaenri’ah;

Diluc is strongly connected with the Fatui, that he opposes, and with a secret organization that is probably the Hexenzirkel, judging by the cups in his mansion, Angel’s share and several other hints;

Jean is a descendant of Old Mondstadt, more specifically, of the original Gunnhildr who through her wishes attracted wisp Venti, and she is alsoboth the Dandelion Knight and the Lionfang Knight;

Rosaria has lived with bandits since childhood, was found by Varka and put in the church, and she isn’t a very faithful nun. More importantly, some people suspect she is originally from Nod-Krai - she is canonically from a mountain village and the bandit gang has endured freezing cold.

Albedo is an homunculus created by Rhinedottir, a witch, through Khemia, that he also practices, and he is technically Durin’s brother and adopted into Klee’s family;

Klee is Alice’s daughter and might very well become a super strong witch herself, and she also inherited Alice’s book;

Mona is Barbeloth’s apprentice and therefore can read fates, and another powerful witch;

Lisa is another powerful witch who was invited to be part of the Hexenzirkel (she declined), who also knows many truths and secrets;

Eula is a member of the aristocracy who goes against her family, and was taught by Amber’s grandfather;

Amber has a grandfather from Liyue, who dissapeared;

Fischl/Amy cosplays book Princess Fischl, who likely represents Istaroth and is from books written by the suspicious Mr.Nine, the author whose codename is A., so probably by Alice;

Razor has ties to Sumeru family, and his story introduced us to Boreas/Andrius;

Bennet was likely found in the Mare Jivari, a destroyed region in Natlan where wind doesn’t blow, and his bad luck is probably an extension of the curse that people from Natlan had before the Archon Quest, that prevented them from leaving the region because of Leyline issues;

Diona was one of the first characters we saw that displayed atavism (regressive animal traits), along with her whole family, and she also introduced us to the concept of fairy oceanids, and their connections with wine.

Sucrose is another character with atavism, likely a fox, and foxes are important on their own even with fairytale connections like the tale of the dandelion sea. She is another alchemist.

Noelle is very unsuspicious, but it’s interesting that she wears roses, and the fact that those flowers mean secrets in Mondstadt was even highlighted in her Hangout quest;

Mika and Barbara don’t seem to have anything weird going on.

Varka is out in an expedition with most of the Knights of Mondstadt, and will definitely be an important character too;

Dahlia is another upcoming character who will likely be important, given his leaked appearance with horns and unconventional traits for a deacon.

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That's it. My goal was to write the most extensive and in-dept post about Venti possible - you guys tell me if I succeeded and if this makes sense xD

I think I did, because reddit told me this

[willowaddison]

[kajenus]

Can't stand that biblically accurate ass!!!

(based on meme by Filantia)

[pikkatind]

Here's my old phanes drawing, not finished but I don't think I'll finish it

And yeeeaaah this is black hole as a crown, I have a couple of suggestions that them may be related to black holes

Someday I might make a post about it, but not today

Here's some black hole arts with them too in which I was too lazy to draw wings lol

[eulaties]

just saw some amazing theories ab how each of the archon quests connect back to the primordial one so i thought id post a screenshot here!

[aaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Hey guys what the hell.

[herrscherofexcuses]

Kiana-phanes is real to me, so have a quick skecth

[elysiaishere]

Genshin Impact Thoughts And/Or Theories No One Asked For (Spoilers)

I find it strange that information about the Primordial One and their Four Shining Shades is nigh impossible to come across in-game. If what we know (so far) of Teyvet's earliest histories is true, then the Primordial One and Four Shades should have a much larger presence in Teyvet mythos than simply the scraps we find in Enkanomiya.

So, I think it's possible that the Primordial One and the Four Shades lost in the conflict against the Second Who Came and were promptly erased as much as possible from history. While I realise this directly contradicts what Istaroth's scribe states in "Before Sun and Moon", I think it's important to note that this scribe had no way of knowing for certain who prevailed because, like everyone else in Enkanomiya, they were still trapped below the surface. With that being said, I don't necessarily believe that the Primordial One and their Four Shining Shades died.

In fact, I think it's more than plausible that their lives endured long after the aforementioned conflict. The largest evidence of this is, of course, Istaroth herself. Clues throughout the game suggest that Istaroth was very likely one of the Primordial One's Shining Shades. And, based on the information we do have of her, we know two things: she ruled alongside Barbatos sometime during (or even after) the Archon War, and Ei believes Istaroth manipulated time to assist Makoto with planting the Sacred Sakura tree. These events had to have occurred long after the war against the Second Who Came. So, what happened to her?

Only one person, in my opinion, has a clear answer to that question: Venti. It's clear that he's withholding information—he has always withheld information—and with the absence of his second Story Quest, I often wonder what he might be hiding. So, following the brainrot of the last few points, I believe he has a deeper connection to Istaroth—and by extension, the Primordial One—than is initially evident.

Phanes (who is often theorized to be the Primordial One) is described as "androgynous with wings and a crown." Venti is depicted much the same way throughout various cutscenes. And while it's entirely possible, I'm just—this:

I still find it difficult to ignore the threads that seemingly link Venti to Istaroth. Do I believe he is Istaroth? No. I don't think so. Istaroth was a very involved figure throughout her mythos, while Venti prefers a backseat approach to his responsibilities as an Archon. Only interfering when absolutely necessary. I do, however, believe he is much stronger and more capable than he claims to be.

He ascended to Archon, after all, and at some point during his reign, Barbatos was able to terrform Mondstadt to his liking (e.g.: the Golden Apple Archipelago is formed from the tops of the mountains he lobbed off in Mondstadt, that later fell upside-down in the ocean). Without his gnosis, it's likely he can no longer perform such a feat, but I think to consider him "weak" is a huge oversight.

After all, he's won every battle he's ever been in. If he hadn't, he wouldn't be here vexing us today.

[fantimati]

Hey do you guys ever think about how the primordial one's nation is based off of Greek mythology and has a lot of ancient Greek influences (especially if the primordial one is Phanes) and how Mondstadt has Roman influences despite being clearly based off of medieval Germany (and maybe the Holy Roman empire? Idk enough about it to say anything)

Favonious→ name of the Western wind god in Roman mythology

Dvalin/stormterror → East wind god, was thought to bring storms

Andrius/Lupus Boreas → Boreas is the northern wind god thought to bring winter and snow.

Venti → literally "Wind god" in Latin. people keep translating it as just wind in Italian which isn't wrong but I don't think it's right either.

And how Istaroth (Literally one of the shades of the Primordial one) was worshiped in Mondstadt in the past with Barbatos.

And how The thousand winds are only mentioned in Enkonomiya ( part of the unified civilization) and Mondstadt (where their GOD is literally a part of them and Istaroth has a connection to them??)

And Kronos (Greek god of time) is often equated wind which matches up with Istaroth extremely well.

And how the Genesis Pearl (Genesis as in creation of something. Often as "Creation of earth/the universe) is encircled by a snake similar to IRL Phanes' egg being encircled by serpent and how VENTI is the one telling us about this??

Can we talk about IRL Phanes' themes of rebirth and how he keeps getting chopped into pieces and eaten for the power to control the heavens? Because I want to talk about how it matches up with the 3rd decender being chopped into pieces and getting "eaten" (absorbed?) By Celestia to control Teyvat.

[er-ghost-in]

The Primordial Sea

Ok, so, we know how the primordial sea is underneath Fontaine, and we also know, according to the Petrichor mission, that its ancient history is based on greek mythology.

That had led me to the assumption that, maybe, the primordial sea referenced a god/place talked about in greek myths. That would lead us to the god Pontus, who is a child of Gaia [the personification of the world (aka land)] (according to Hesiod) but also (according to Hyginus) a child of Aether.

Honestly, the fact that it is thought that he's a child of Aether would make things too confusing and doesn't contribute to what I want to explain. BUT Pontus is often represented accompanying the goddess Fortuna, the latin and persian goddess of Fate. (So I guess that's an interesting thing to know)

Anyway...

While I was in class, my Ancient History professor (I study archaeology) mentioned the primordial sea while discussing the "Epic of Gilgamesh" (good read), which leads us back to the Mesopotamian religion.

I'm not going to go into too much depth as I'm already writing this past my sleep schedule, but Tiamat is THE primordial sea. According to the epic "Enûma Elish" (haven't read it, but is apparently a good read), her and Abzû, the Groundwater, created the first generation of gods in Mesopotamia.

Could Abzû be referencing the Primordial One? The one who made the world habitable to humans, then created the first generation of gods (Celestia or possibly the first generation of "humans") did so through the Primordial sea (which we kinda know thanks to the Fontaine archon quest). This also means that modern fontainians weren't exactly humans because they didn't have the "consent" of the Primordial One.

I like to point out the obvious and talk about the correlations of everything. If a lot of this rant doesn't make sense, I'm tired.

Feel to point out any mistakes and add more information, I'd love to hear it. 😌

[torgawl]

if anyone wants to read my insanely long and confusing thoughts about diluc and seelies :3

crazy stuff i talk about: why diluc embodies phanes; owls = seelies = dragons; khaenri'ah is celestia's dark shadow self; human evolution; abyss gives you seelie magical girl transformation?!; witches and the sun.

[anilyan]

Venti is Phanes + on Istaroth and the Primordial One

[Edit 13/04/2025: THIS IS OLD AND MESSY. Instead, please check my updated theory, it really goes in-depth and is organized and without inconsistencies. I would have posted it on reddit, but it exceeded the character limit >.< So you can check it on tumblr and twitter]

Not so crack theory: Venti is Phanes and is the androgynous being born from the Chymical Marriage between the Primordial One and Istaroth, before she was betrayed by the Sinners

(I posted this before but now it's properly explained)

I am using this lore in my old mondstadt fic, Nameless (actually soon to turn into trilogy, since vol 2 is about venti rewinding time and vol 3 is present time story and I took so long to plan all the lore with all the canon crumbs and theories we had...)

Yes, a lot of the info about gods is pulled from wikipedia, I’m not being paid to research more, okay? I just want to feed the brainrot. My main sources besides those are the videos listed at the end.

I would love if this theory made its way to some big lore content creator for them to analyse and criticize, because I have been rotating this in my head but I don’t have their capacity or knowledge to tear this apart.

NOTES:

This post contain minimal mentions of 2 leaks, about the rest of the collection of The Pale Princess and the Six Pygmies, and a sus minimal old leak about Venti

This post contains some references to the Penacony arc from Honkai star rail, but no knowledge about the game is required and in fact, I don't even play it myself and those are just sus parallels

0. Summary / main points

Istaroth and the Primordial One parallel Chronos (personification of time) and Ananke (most powerful dictator of Fate and mother of The Fates/Moirai), respectively.

Chronos and Ananke laid down the cosmic / orphic world that created/reshaped the world. In a way, that was an Alchemical Marriage, that also gave birth to the androgynous winged being Phanes/Venti, and to the Abyss,

Venti has many ties to fate, including extensive apple symbology visible even in wisp form. The apples, besides being a symbol of fate, also represent a dream bubble in accordance to the structure of Teyvat. Quoting his most sus birthday art, “It is written that there is a whole tiny world hidden inside an apple core”

Venti has at least some control over 1 half of Teyvat while the other half is ruled by The Night Mother/Nyx. He also offers us half of the apple in the mentioned birthday art.

Ananke was a serpent-like being, and we see a Black Serpent 1) coiled around Phanes 2) coiled around the pearl/cosmic egg in the Gnostic Chorus 3) in the Black Serpent Knights, who also had Ishtar/Istaroth’s star as a symbol 4) In Nibelung, if we consider serpents and dragons the same

Istaroth supported Khaenri’ah (thus why the Nation had her symbol) and both opposed the Heavenly Principles/Celestia, until she was betrayed by the Sinners/6 Pygmies and forgotten

The Primordial One was opposed by Celestia. We also know that Nibelung fought Celestia. They were either allies or even the same being (a black serpent), and their perceived opposition is not too different from how Remus went down misinterpreted by history

1. About the Primordial One

In case it’s not yet clear, this assumes that Phanes =/= Primordial One. After all, the book Before the Sun and Moon simply says that “The Primordial One may have been Phanes*”,* and the fandom just started equating the two.

I am of the opinion that the Primordial One and Celestia are in opposition, while Istaroth is on the side of the Primordial One, or at least opposed to Celestia too. Maybe the Alchemical Marriage was part of a plan of theirs. Read more about it in section 3.

And if the truth about Remuria taught us anything, is that some rivalries depicted in history are false. In the same way Remus went down as a Tyrant when in reality he never wanted to employ force and was even allied with Sybilla (a vishap), I would say that the Primordial One and Nibelung/dragons/vishaps probably found ways to coexist. We do know that Nibelung went to war against the Heavenly Principles/Celestia, but if Celestia and Primordial One opposed each other, that just makes an alliance between PO and the Dragon King more likely.

We don’t know if Primordial One = 1st Descender and Celestia = 2nd Descender, so I will avoid using those terms throughout the post. But if the 2nd who came = 2nd Descender = Celestia, then that would lend further credibility to the idea that Celestia and the PO are on opposing sides, since the 2nd who came basically stole PO’s ruling of Teyvat.

2. About Istaroth AND Khaenri’ah

Like I said above, I believe that Istaroth sides with the Primordial One and that both are in opposition to Celestia

Istaroth has the ability to create alt Looms of Fate through those seeds she gives away - those basically grow into trees that are databases of history outside the control of Celestia. I had already affirmed this for my fic before we got the 2nd Caribert quest, but at this point is practically confirmed.

Istaroth is based on Astaroth and Ishtar, and Ishtar’s morning star is an 8-pointed star just like the symbol of Khaenri’ah. And so the Black Serpent Nights probably served Istaroth in some way.

Khaenri’ah supposedly didn’t have a god, but let’s keep in mind Istaroth was forgotten by time. It’s also possible that, even if Khaenri’ah had a god, they still considered themselves the pride of humankind since Istaroth likely wasn’t associated with Celestia, as I mentioned

Speaking of Black Serpents, other prevalent Black serpents are the one in the Gnostic Chorus, and Nibelung, in a way (not sure if they are or not the same entity). So I would say that Nibelung is/was also allied with Khaenri’ah/Istaroth/Primordial One. Please refer to the section above for an explanation.

The 6 Pygmies and the Pale Princess is a book that is an allegory for the 5 Sinners of Khaenri’ah + Dainsleif and Istaroth. I include, at the end, a video that explains that properly and is very much worth the watch. From there (or at least, from the leaked volumes), we know that the Sinners basically betrayed Istaroth, which might explain why she ended up being forgotten and why Dainsleif is the only Pygmie that didn’t go fully down the Sinner’s path.

3. The relationship between the Primordial One and Istaroth

Like I say above, many things point to them being allied. At the very least, we can quite safely infer they both opposed Celestia/The Heavenly Principles and in turn allied with Khaenri’ah.

The cosmic/ orphic/world egg was created by Chronos (personification of time) and Ananke (most powerful dictator of Fate and mother of The Fates/Moirai). “Ananke and Chronos are mates, mingling together in serpent form as a tie around the universe. Together, they have crushed the primal egg of creation of which constituent parts became earth, heaven and sea to form the ordered universe.”

Ananke and Chronos have to be the PO and Istaroth - which one is which is a bit debatable, with their genders being a counterargument on its own. But I would say Chronos is Istaroth (due to her associations with time, although she is more a god of moments than of time) while Ananke is the Primordial One (who had the 3 moon sisters/moirai as shades + is probably the Dreamer/HSR’s SUNday parallel who plays the symphony that creates the fates reflected by the moons (read more in next section)).

The cosmic egg that birthed the world, together with the Abyss AND Venti, probably resulted from their Alchemical Marriage. I wouldn’t be too surprised if it was also the Gnostic Pearl depicted in the Gnostic Chorus cutscene, or even if the Black Serpent there was Ananke/Primordial One. In fact, that would only solidify the connections with the Black Serpent Knights and them wearing Istaroth’s symbol. And it would be extra funny if somehow the Primordial One and Nibelung were the same entity (since I already explained why I think they were are least on the same side)… and therefore were a black serpent/dragon.

Okay, but what is an Alchemical/Chymical Marriage? It’s a marriage between a Red King and a White Queen, the Sun and the Moon, gold and silver, sulphur and mercury. It’s sometimes pointed as the source of the Philosophers' Stone, and from that union of opposites is birthed an androgynous being. Btw, that marriage is facilitated by a dove, but this is off-topic and you can see why that is interesting in the last video linked. It’s also a process that sometimes involves ‘fermentation”, which is also off-topic but ties well with the wine-making process and other things mentioned in the last video too.

According to Jakob: "The Seal of Chymical Marriage was an ancient Fontainian ritual meant to seal off the source of life. Now it has been reversed, and all has been set free once more!" So, it can be used to separate the Primordial Sea from the world, which sounds similar to creating a world/pearl/philosopher’s stone/egg/dream bubble that floats in the sea of quanta or wtv is the logic used across Hoyoverse’s worlds. We confirm again this was necessary to create Teyvat's egg, and that the Primordial One couldn’t do it alone because two people are required for a marriage.

And do you know what Marriages also require? A ring. Who was escaping with a golden ring, that is an important figure of Khaenri’ah and the only Pygmy who didn’t act like the others/didn’t become a Sinner? Dainsleif, whose constellation is even a Serpent ring. May I point to the Das Rheinegold music drama, that is part of the series The Ring of Nibelung, and maybe use that as extra merit to associate the Primordial One with Nibelung?

4. About the world of Teyvat

Dragons = Vishaps = Sea slugs = Bees = Seelies. Yes. We already know that the the dragons and seelies in Genshin are based on irl sea slugs, I won’t elaborate on that. As for Bees, that is because we have seelie-like bees in Remuria, connected to the prophet Golden-Bee Sybilla (don’t mistake Sybilla with Sylla, who is a Dragon King, although I guess this is all the same family)

Teyvat is theoretically 2 worlds/halves, the version we know and the mirror world, that is probably the Abyss. Or maybe all of it is a mirror world, idk. We can even see similar world structures in Honkai Star Rail, especially in Penacony, where the world there is literally mirrored and a dream too. Some people say Teyvat is divided in 3 parts: the Light Realm, Void Realm, and the Human Realm. But I think the Pimordial One just transformed the Light Realm into the Human Realm, so there are still 2 parts only, and we know they can overlap anyway.

Cycle: People die » are absorbed by the roots » are supposed to travel to the top of the world tree (inverted, so top is in abyss) to become Irminsul fruit / stars » said stars form constellations that determine people's fate, or more accurately, since they are all in a dream, are data that allows the tree to predict their fates » it’s because people exist as stars that their fates and presence can be summoned in the form of shooting stars

Dainsleif confirmed that the leylines can be woven to determine Fate / have their records changed. The Loom used to weave them is a Symphony, or in other words, Remus’ Symphony of Fate is very similar or the same thing as a Loom of Fate, although maybe not at the same scale. It’s possible that other God-Kings also attempted to create their own Looms of Fate.

Add to that some Penacony’s parallels, and you can infer that the Symphony is controlled in a floating palace, that is actually a Grande Theater, by the Sun(day) (potentially Phanes or the Primordial One, basically the one who Dreams), and it’s reflected by the moons (Aria, Sonnet and Canon, so the musical associations are fitting). Considering that the 3 moon sisters are also probably the mythological Moirai who weave Fate, yeah, that tracks.

5. Finally, about Venti

Addressing the Venti is/isn’t the weakest Archon debate: Idk and I don’t quite care, because regardless of how much power he holds now, this theory is about his origins and role more than anything.

Venti is the one narrating the Gnostic Chorus cutscene, so clearly he knows about the origins of Teyvat and other important stuff. Yes, it can just be because of his ties to Istaroth who had the winds of time and bla bla, but I would say he has a bigger involvement.

In the Gnostic Chorus, there is a Black serpent, and I already mentioned how it ties with Khaenri’ah and Istaroth in the second section. Well, Phanes is a figure that has a serpent coiled around him too, Ananke, to be more precise.

Phanes was believed to have hatched from the egg of Chronos and Ananke (Istaroth and PO, section 3), OR Nyx in the form of a black bird and wind, OR from the cosmic /orphic egg placed in and hatched from Aether, who was the personification of the bright upper sky and another son of Chronos. Regardless, it seems like the egg birthed both Phanes AND the world?

Phanes is described sometimes as male, sometimes as androgynous. I don’t need to explain how that fits Venti. The androgynous part also fits with how a being born from an Alchemical Marriage should be androgynous due to being an union of opposites.

Phanes is also described has having wings and a crown. We are yet to see a crown, but at least the angel wings are there.

Some myths say that Phanes was Dionysus (god of wine… amongst other things), or Eros (god of love, yes I’m simplifying), and oh boy isn’t Venti the god of all of that too? Although this is complicated since it has to do with gods being iterations of past gods and such, you can read more about it here

In a certain play, after Phanes mates with Chaos, he creates flying creatures. It would also fit Venti well, especially given that tale from Amber’s Quest where he taught birds how to fly.

Okay, this gets less obvious now. Phanes is a first-born deity who emerged from the abyss and gave birth to the universe, and is a god of creation, light and goodness. The Abyss part is extra intriguing because the world has an abyss half, and some in-game books even compare wine with the Abyss, and also with the idea that drinking the abyss/wine is a way to acquire Forbidden Knowledge. Please, check the last video I link.

Phanes counterpart is Nyx (Night). In some tales she is Phane’s wife, sometimes his daughter, and in others she creates an egg from which Phanes is born, so wtv. I don’t know who Nyx is (besides being clearly The Night Mother from the book of the Six Pygmies), but it’s pretty clear that the Abyss half is under her responsibility in some way.

Oh, right, this was a sus leak that broke my mind months ago and seemed completely nonsensical, but since I started cooking this theory, I can’t help but look back at it. It claimed that Venti was the guide of the Primordial One. Humm… yeah, if Venti was part of a plan between Istaroth and PO, I can see that, although I don’t know what the goal could be. Maybe he is assuming Istaroth’s role now that she is gone in supporting the PO?

This is a very wild guess, but I really thing Venti has something to do with the Gnostic Pearl. Idk if that pearl is the same one that hatched the world, or something that holds the world together (think Mikha from HSR), but I can imagine him having some responsibility over taking care of it.

And if you think Venti holding Fate in his hands is a stretch… let’s talk about Apples. Especially in anime, Apples are often depicted as the fruit of Fate (look no further than Mawaru Penguindrum), and in Inazuma, the girl giving Fortune Slips is called Gendou Ringo, with Ringo meaning ‘apple’ in Japanese. Well… Mondstadt is a land full of apple trees, Venti loves apple cider and is often asking for apples to pay for his performances, is being given an apple in archon form in one of his birthday arts, created the Golden-Apple Archipelago, and even the top of his head in wisp form resembles an apple stem. Seriously, I go crazy with how many people never noticed that. This is too much in our face to not be relevant.

This sounds like a stretch, but apples are round and so the shape is not too different from a dream bubble. And do you know what the birthday art I mentioned had in the caption? “It is written that there is a whole tiny world hidden inside an apple core. Here, this half is for you. Let's take a stroll in the tiny little world. But remember to keep it a secret because... you're the only one I want to bring there.” If he isn’t holding Fate or a world in some way, then I don’t know what this is supposed to mean.

You know how I said that Teyvat is divided into 2 halves? That also connects well with his quote (when he gives us half of the apple/world), and with the idea that Phanes is the day while Nyx is the night. So maybe Venti is responsible for the half of Teyvat that we know/he gave us while Nyx is responsible for the Abyss side.

So… is there any proof that Venti is Phanes? No. Are there many many sus elements about him and connections with the things I listed? Yes. I could see the Traveler being Phanes and being entrusted the Light/Human half of Teyvat by Venti as a scenario just as likely, especially if The Abyss sibling ends up being/becoming Nyx, but I like this version more xD

But even if the main theory ends up being wrong, I hope people you got some things to think about.

Some videos for extra lore, more a less in order of relevance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZIR-tfzfd4 » Reinterpretation of all volumes of the Six Pygmies and the Pale Princess in light of finding out about the 5 Sinners of Khaenri’ah + Dain + connections of Istaroth with Khaenri’ah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK3xYKtUniQ » More about the connections between Istaroth and Khaenri’ah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePjY4c0Rj0k » Elaborates on how a Loom of Fate is basically another database, as opposed to the Irminsul, and mentios how Istaroth can could create several Looms of Fate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAm9uElsKd4 » Parallels with the Penacony arc from Honkai Start Rail and list of evidences that Teyvat is a Dream bubble

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhST-fz6Yps » Video is from before we learned about the 5 Sinners, and I’m not fully sold on the chronology, but I still think it does a good job at elaborating n the serpent thing from the gnostic chorus and other things we can infer about genshin thanks to parallels to Penacony

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHCv8KFdL6M&t=1045s » Ties sacramental bread and blood with wine and the way wisdom/abilities can be passed down thrown ingesting parts of gods, and the concept of fairy rings and The Ring of Nibelung, with the concept of a Chemical Marriage.

[sunnyy-sunsh1ne]

About Guizhong Having a Correlation with Domains and the Heavens (TL;DR)

It is indeed a fact that Guizhong has similarities with the Heavens & Domains.

She's an entitity that "descended" from above, and also has clothes that resemble to the Abyss/Heavens & Domains.

To continue with the theory we need to asume that all deities descend from the Heavens or recieved the blessing of the Heavens.

With Heavens I don't mean Celestia, but a higher/different power like the Primordial One and its shades or even the Seelies/any other divine envoy.

This theory also follows another theory from a video of @/Ashikai.

Where she talked about domains being concentrated places of space & time. According to this theory these places are like the teapot function, where we can have a big space in such an small teapot.

Domains could be places full of chaos, crowded with forbidden knowledge or random data of Teyvat.

This data could be physical items that the ley lines cannot storaged for some unknown reason.

So because these items cannot be in the ley lines & in the world of Teyvat, domains were created by the Heavens so Teyvat could exist with peace.

Here is where Guizhong finally appears, to be part of the creation of domains.

I have three leads about Guizhong being a creator of Domains:

(1st lead) The ornament she uses in her clothes, and also her clothes being similar to Lumine's & Paimon's clothes.

The ornament of Gui can be seen in various forms around Teyvat, like in the Viparya flower, in the elemental attack sight of Nahida and more.

But I think that @archa1c_l0rd (in twitter) can talk better about it. This post was helped by this other one...

Link: https://twitter.com/archa1c_l0rd/status/1617437510912860162

(2nd lead) I think that Gui's clothes look pretty similar Paimon's clothes (asuming that Paimon has some corelation to the Heavens).

And also a bit to Lumine's clothes (if she also even has some corelation to the Heavens.

(3rd lead) The 3rd lead is the catalyst weapon Memory of Dust.

According the weapon's description, in this dumbbell lies all the wisdom of Gui, one that Rex Lapis was never able to unlock after Gui passed away in the Archon War.

What if inside this lies a domain just like in the teapot function?

Maybe Gui was able to create this dumbbel thanks to her previous creations of domains.

I would like to add that maybe domains could also storage god's residue so it doesn't harms Teyvat.

Maybe old destroyed civilizations had gods that died in some point of history (ex. archon war).

As also there could be pple's souls put in those domains, so they were not storaged in ley lines bc maybe they had forbidden knowledge?

This is why domains have artifacts and weapon ascension items.

[monards]

hey phanes.yeah no hate man. love your work. but where the FUCK did you go wrong

[pikkatind]

Silly sketch of Phanes and Lil Venti hehe

They are similar, aren't they? 4 winds, 4 shades, both kinda androgynous

(both of them are wandering around somewhere, instead of being in their own country/on their own planet)

Favorites💖

[chronivore]

Primordial One