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kajenus · 11 days ago

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I didn't know about Xiuhcoatl having a completely different name in beta; that's new. Now you mention it, I find the name change interesting because of meanings and historical contexts. Of course, it could be simply just about -coatl suffix meaning serpent, the symbolic meaning of fire serpent, and so on, but in mythology, Xiuhcoatl is a spirit form of god Xiuhtecuhtli, and he's often represented as a weapon.

Which seems fitting looking at his descriptions of our Xiuhcoatl's will to fight being the only one thing left from his past glory, no?

And if we were to talk FURTHER about Xiuhcoatl-Huitzilopochtli-Queztalcoatl connections and how it is related to Natlan lore and characters and even the future of Teyvat, we could spend at least 3 days discussing it. There's just so much to it.

Honestly, it makes sense if Pyro Sovereignty worked similar to how Pyro Archons take the throne; after all, Gnoses are made from Sovereign's powers. Inchresting.

It also made me think, why wasn't Waxaklahun the one to seize authority from Xiuhcoatl directly? Him thinking about killing Xiuhcoatl as mercy is something I can strongly agree on, however making your son some dragon-human hybrid, getting him raised by humans and then ordering him to kill the Dragon Sovereign seems like making unnecessary roundabouts...? I get, it's about uniting humans and dragons (in a way.), but Waxaklahun noticed how dragon civilization fucked up way before stealing Phlogiston - Xiuhcoatl was in bad shape before that. Was it because of his (remnants of?) loyalty to Flamelord, or due to completely different reasons? He knew about Xiuhcoatl's weakness anyway, most likely.

So I have a lovely discussion with Ozerix, one of my readers in NotHS (Notes on the Holy Sovereign. Imma shorten it bcs man is it mouthful😅) regarding dragon's morality and Waxaklahun's cold and insane attitude. I think I want to share it in here too !

Regarding the dragons' morality... I wonder, how much of it was ingrained in their biology, or the result of their culture instead ?

Neuvillette probably the one that popped first in the mind, he needed 500 years to adapt to human society, but even then he was still quite reserved until his SQ. But remember, Neuvillette is a Sovereign. They're the gods of the dragons, & gods have different psyche than mortals. So I think Neuvi couldn't be the representative of all dragons in regard of their morality.

And in Natlan, it seems the Saurians have a rather similar concept of family to humans. For example ;

• Chasca's Qucusaurus family, complete with human drama & all.

(Chasca's momma bird even nags her about grandchildren like typical mothers lol.)

• The family of Ayo (Kachina's tepetlisaurus) in 5.3 AQ. He had grandparents who behaved just like human grandparents ! I was actually quite shocked when I played that part of the quest.

(I HATE the AQ with burning passion, but this part ? I have to admit, it's genuinely heartbreaking.)

• One could argue that their similarity is the result of them evolving alongside humans, thus attaining some of our behaviours, but it seems this familial relationship has been there for a long time. Remember Lianca ? She was raised by a dragon matriarch, & she proudly call herself her daughter. That sounds very human-like to me.

(From Chain Breaker lore, page 1. Lianca's mother sounded so sweet🥹)

I also theorized that WUK is the same type of dragons as Scylla from Remuria, the Prince of the Vishaps, or at least a Sovereign's attendant. It wouldn't be far-fetched to assume that WUK used to serve under Xiuhcoatl. And since these kind of dragons directly served under the Sovereigns, perhaps they too have the Sovereigns' detachment from mortal feelings. Kinda like Zhongli & his adepti, a god & their immortal servants.

(But the difference in their attitude is kinda funny tbh. "Oh, I shall seek an audience with the new Hydro Sovereign. Though I'm afraid I do not count as a Dragonborn now😓" vs "THE PYRO SOVEREIGN MUST DIE. MY SON FAILED TO SLAY HIM." What did Xiuhcoatl do that merited that attitude bro😭)

So maybe WUK's cold attitude towards his son is caused more by his personality/belief. Plus, seeing your civilization declining probably makes anybody to become more jaded & pragmatic, anyway. But then again, this is just my personal interpretation !

Btw if WUK is truly masquerading as humans in Natlan’s WQ, there's Legba, who claimed that "I, too, had many such... brilliant children." I find it disturbing tbh. Och-Kan had siblings ??? I wonder if we'll meet them- the ones who are alive, if there's any- in the future.

(But ngl, Waxaklahun/Legba here sounded more... nostalgic ? Soft ? Towards his children ? Perhaps it was the human Legba's true personality seeping in, but I find it... very contradictory with how he treated Och-Kan. Maybe he does not find his previous children to be failures, hence the praise. Or maybe... he used to be kinder ? Tbh I think the second option will be intriguing from the narrative perspective. Imagine seeing the evolution from a caring father to a cold sage driven mad by the fall of his civilization.)

#genshin impact #i talk sometimes #reblog #just give me 5.5 update already please I need some answers finally #or no. I need to draw them dragons before 5.5 drops #ALSO hell naur not Hoyo whitewashing non-typically humanoid charactesr as well....#what a world it is...

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kajenus · 15 days ago

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MY 2 WEEK SCHOOL BREAK JUST STARTED YAHOO

#not art #i talk sometimes #nie wierzę że autentycznie prawie bym pierwszy semestr ujebał

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kajenus · 15 days ago

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AAGHHH I am so glad you enjoyed it :"D

I love giving more thoughts to silly observations to find out that they're not so silly at all and have deeper meaning.

ALSO THANK YOU TOO!!!??? I devour your posts like Michelin 3 stars meals,,

If I were to make stand alone post I'd bring up these points I made AND some other stuff I didn't include there - such as War Serpent and Vision Serpent most likely being the same deity of Classic Maya period, whole thing about mythological and Genshin Huitzilopochtli etc etc. I have too many thoughts and too little hours in a day to think about it (and write it down) + I'd rather wait for 5.5. WQ to clear up some things :"))

AND YES DMs!!! I shall await then.... hehehe

Regarding the dragons' morality... I wonder, how much of it was ingrained in their biology, or the result of their culture instead ?

And in Natlan, it seems the Saurians have a rather similar concept of family to humans. For example ;

• Chasca's Qucusaurus family, complete with human drama & all.

(Chasca's momma bird even nags her about grandchildren like typical mothers lol.)

• The family of Ayo (Kachina's tepetlisaurus) in 5.3 AQ. He had grandparents who behaved just like human grandparents ! I was actually quite shocked when I played that part of the quest.

(I HATE the AQ with burning passion, but this part ? I have to admit, it's genuinely heartbreaking.)

(From Chain Breaker lore, page 1. Lianca's mother sounded so sweet🥹)

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kajenus · 16 days ago

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Oughhh alright I need to add my own thoughts because first, I was also thinking about that a while ago and I agree with your observations, and second, Waxaklahun is such an interesting character to me, with his moral compass being a literal russian roulettte, I need to study him under microscope and get him vivisected maybe /silly.

I'll keep this under read more because I feel like I am going to ramble A LOT, both abt his character and what we see of him (+ mythology connections, of course!) and the dragon society after arrival of Heavenly Principles in general, because there seems to be a lot of infighting here. Even among Sovereigns.

FIRST OF ALL. I did that quest with Legba wayyyy later than I should because somehow I missed it and I did it after doing 5.3 AQ (and by extension, the 5.0 and 5.2 world quests). Ngl, the mention of "many such brilliant children" threw me off guard because. What the fuck do you mean by that. Literally the only time we see you interact with your child you call him a foolish creature (I mean, Och-Kan needed a reality check, but way earlier, BY HIS FRIENDS PRESUMABLY, and not in such way. That was just kicking a man when he was down. Good job Dragon Sage).

Live Kajen reaction at the moment (liveblogging these to my friends is always an experience. Thank you Dora and Wich for bearing with me, and thank you for the dragonfucker jokes. I am not escaping them now).

Honestly, these could be, in fact, true Legba's words - as the Sage doesn't strike me as a type of person... dragon... to be anyhow family-oriented - but also he's an ancient old fart, it could make sense he fathered at least a couple of kids thru the millenniums of his life.

It's either this scenario or, like you mentioned, Waxaklahun being different before. Tbh? I could see him as way chiller/not unhinged before arrival of Heavenly Principles in the Light Realm, you know, the type of guy who is indeed eccentric and going into discussion with him isn't recommended because it's been 2 hours and you're losing your argument and he's still talking, but nonetheless, not hostile in any way. Honestly, I could imagine him with a personality similar to Spock from Star Trek - self-control and logical thinking above all, putting emotions aside. Completely not like it's gonna bite him in the ass later, right?

Speaking of that, the emotions he classifies as incomplete sign of evolution, are. The very negative ones. I wonder, does he filter which emotions are allowed and which are not, then?

A matter of interpretation, I say. Obsession with the individual is a human weakness — just like the fruit of your foolish hysteria. A sign of incomplete "evolution."

Turning from a somewhat decent/good father into a person who turns his son into a literal weapon and puts him both in physical and mental torture? It's so fucking tragic and grotesque and ohhh. Waiter, more of that please!

Remember when Och-Kan described his physical pain in one of the notes? I'll just show my friend's comment.

Also, based on his interactions with Och-Kan, he really seems like a control freak. His fool-proof plan on making his son kill Xiuhcoatl and be the next Sovereign, uniting both humans and dragons, even if in... Ubermensch-esque way, sounded pretty simple and straight-forward, right? Even so, Och-Kan failed and instead Xbalanque came along the way, making Waxaklahun lose all of the control he previously had. And if you like being in control, losing it is fucking awful and you'll start reaching for any weapon possible to regain that control or at least keep what you have left of it. I believe that if not for Och-Kan's betrayal and Xbalanque gaining the authority, Waxaklahun probably wouldn't take such drastic measurements. Or maybe he would do something as awful. Who knows what is going on in that head.

This also made me think about his tendencies to be in control. We walk in on him talking to Little One and when we see that our little companion seems to be stressed/worried, he dismissed it as both of them being concerned about our safety. Traveler doesn't understand what Saurians say, so he already has an upper hand here. Which brings me into another thing which you already pointed out, growing pragmatic and jaded because of decline of the dragon society, which is EXACTLY what Obsidian Codex talks about.

"I see light fall upon the rootless earth, the dragons prostrating before their ruler's deathbed." "I see great wisdom, great art, great civilization — and all shall perish." "But endless cycles are the law of the world, and history will not cease on account of our sorrows." "But tragic are my kin, for they see not how their folly serves to aid history's iron rule." "Servants today shall be rulers tomorrow. Past slaves shall be future masters." "Our race is mired in spiraling contradiction inexorable. Only in sowing seeds shall we find salvation." "Perhaps, out there in the abundant primordial wilderness, there is a land that has yet to know the touch of filth and decay."

When the priests of smoke and mist lit bonfires tall enough to block out the sun and offered the blood of other species to their valiant ancestors and invisible deities; When the hero who had drawn from the flame rode a tamed beast to the fortress built from massive stones through the guidance of the tribal Wayob; When the reptiles that dwelled within a city so ancient that none knew its builders scaled its twisted towers in terror, Only the wisest among dragons stood within the stagnant void, a silent observer of the grand, drawn-out tragedy.

Disagreements born from blades can only be resolved by the blade, and delusion born from ambition can only be subdued by ambition still greater. And the one who had thought itself master over evolution never imagined that those with strength would give it an answer beyond conquest and slaughter.

(Flower of Life, Goblet of Eonothem and Circlet of Logos descriptions, respectively)

Honestly? It just clearly screams PTSD and survivor's guilt to me, especially the "silent observer of the grand, drawn-out tragedy" part. Which is valid, if I were to partake in two, world destroying wars and seeing three of major rulers killed by an usurper (more on that later) which plunged my nation to collapse, I'd just kill myself on the spot /lh. It's just the fact that in Waxaklahun's case, what he does afterwards can't even be called unhealthy coping mechanisms anymore - this is a drowning man looking for anything to grasp on. And honestly, him solely trying to save dragonkind from going exctinct was hopeless from the start, compared to pressing a band aid kit to an open wound. Or, ngl, as I keep writing this now, I thought about the "I Can't Help Myself" artistic installation by Su Yuan and Peng Yu, where the most common interpretation online is about working to live - the robot keeps cleaning his fluid/"blood", but it still spills, coming back to where it was before. And yes, that's how it looks like when you're trying to keep yourself in piece and failing - BUT how about trying to keep people around you in shape while they're just not willing to cooperate (once again, more on that later)? That's also how it feels like, speaking from a personal level. Dragon dilf man is not only based off of Prometheus but also pulled Sisyphus move on himself. DUDE.

(One must imagine how dragon society would've been like if not for Phanes' arrival)

Speaking of Prometheus and both Mayan and Aztec deities Waxaklahun is based on! <3

K'uk'ulkan, and by extensions, Aztec deity Quetzalcoatl and Postclassic period K'iche' deity Qʼuqʼumatz, are all feathered serpents - something that in all of these pantheons is REALLY symbolic. In general, Mesoamerican deities were very dual in their nature, both divine and human-like at the same time (and if you look at, I don't know, Greek or Slavic mythologies and its gods, you won't find that here) - in the case of Feathered Serpent, said feathers represented the divinity, ability to reach skies, fly, while being a serpent represented the human parts, being able to walk among humans. Sounds familiar, eh?

I remember when we got first mention of the name Xiuhcoatl (and the war in comments on Genshin Wiki because FOR SOME REASON they didn't want to connect the name to Pyro Sovereign. "We didn't get direct confirmation!!" then why is Dottore's real name listed as Zandik, we didn't get that told outrightly too), I was really surprised that we actually don't get a dragon named Quetzalcoatl, as I'd argue that name is more known than the name of spiritual part of Xiuhtecuhtli, even if you're not into Aztec mythology. Turns out he's here, but also not really, but also yes. And and interesting fact, I'd say Quetzalcoatl's descriptions fit our Genshin Waxaklahun more than what we have of mythological K'uk'ulkan:

Among the Aztecs, [Quetzalcoatl] was related to wind, Venus, Sun, merchants, arts, crafts, knowledge, and learning. He was also the patron god of the Aztec priesthood.[5]

Animals thought to represent Quetzalcoatl include resplendent quetzals, rattlesnakes (coatl meaning "serpent" in Nahuatl), crows, and macaws.

(via Wikipedia)

Now I am going to stop here for a second. This may be a stretch on my part, but while we can clearly see that Waxaklahun has feathers(?) in his design, I can see some similarities to horned rattlesnake as well. Maybe it's because of something like supraocular scales above his eyes and the sandy, beige color scheme. Not sure if it was intentional, but with Hoyo, I doubt there is something like "coincidence" when designing their characters (even when they're gooner baits, but that's completely another topic).

They both look like they're constantly pissed off lmao

Last thing about Mesoamerican mythology before I move on onto his Prometheus inspiration, you know how Teyvat has Samsara going on? Certain Nahua cultures have a myth called Five Suns.

In the Aztec and other Nahua creation myths, it was believed that the universe had gone through four iterations before the current one, and each of these prior worlds had been destroyed by Gods due to the behavior of its inhabitants.

(via Wikipedia)

I'd really recommend anyone to go deeper into the topic and myth itself themselves, because I am going to talk about it very briefly, mostly it's connection to our Genshin dragons and Samsara cycles. Because the basics sounds a bit familiar.

FIFTH SUN Quetzalcoatl would not accept the destruction of his people and went to the underworld where he stole their bones from the god Mictlantecuhtli. He dipped these bones in his own blood to resurrect his people, who reopened their eyes to a sky illuminated by the current sun, Huitzilopochtli.[2] The Centzonhuītznāhua, or the stars of the south, became jealous of their brighter, more important brother Huitzilopochtli. Their leader, Coyolxauhqui, goddess of the moon, led them in an assault on the sun and every night they come close to victory when they shine throughout the sky, but are beaten back by the mighty Huitzilopochtli who rules the daytime sky. To aid this all-important god in his continuing war, the Aztecs offer him the nourishment of human sacrifices. They also offer human sacrifices to Tezcatlipoca in fear of his judgment, offer their own blood to Quetzalcoatl, who opposes fatal sacrifices, in thanks of his blood sacrifice for them and give offerings to many other gods for many purposes. Should these sacrifices cease, or should mankind fail to please the gods for any other reason, this fifth sun will go black, the world will be shattered by a catastrophic earthquake, and the Tzitzimitl will slay Huitzilopochtli and all of humanity.

(via Wikipedia)

"Fun" fact: irl, our current era would be in fact the fifth.

Now, how THE FUCK can we connect this to Genshin?

I want to look at the quote that introduced Nevuillette, from the man the legend himself, Xbalanque.

Someday, when [the Sovereigns] return, their true ordeal shall begin.

Hydro Sovereign got reborn. Xiuhcoatl is dead, BUT I wouldn't put it past someone trying to resurrect him somehow or maybe even Waxaklahun trying to obtain the authority of flames from Mavuika, or at least, challenge her - now, with his oath to Xbalanque unfulfilled and his own son failing him two times, it seems he could have nothing else to loose, no? He has no clear modus operandi anyway. The rest of Sovereigns.... Well, Apep is here, Azhdaha most likely is the Geo Sovereigns and he's. Somehow going by and Apep mentions that Nibelung got reborn.

And now, this might put me into a dispute with half of Genshin theory/lore community, but I don't think Nibelung was the Second Who Came and he got reborn AFTER shit with SWC happened. Apep mentions his return in the same sentence as her feelings after Deshret's death. Deshret, as far as I can recall, died after war with second throne of the heavens.

So, does that mean in Teyvat, Samsara cycle is complete when Sovereigns rise to their power again? Will we see a showdown of Sovereigns fighting against the usurpers (in this case, current Archons) happen once more? Who knows, but Teyvat might really be cooked then. It's a theory/guess my friend and I came up with and it might as well turn out to be very wrong by the time of 5.5 or 5.6 update.

Uh. Back to the topic of our Genshin modern Prometheus. Haha, get it, because not only Waxaklahun's role in history is similar to that of Prometheus, but also because the Frankenstein novel full title is "Frankenstein; or, The Modern Prometheus" and the Sage pretty much frankenstein'ed Och-K- cat_explosion.gif. Anyways! Prometheus, on a surface level, might seem like the most morally good and selfless guy, a true hero. He stole fire from the gods and gave it to humanity, granting them knowledge, power, technology, and so on. Pretty amazing, right? Well. If you then think about it more, his motives were not to help mankind (rather, to spite the rest of the gods and Zeus), and later on, it led to the opening of the Pandora's box. It brought good things, but bad things also. Sounds pretty familiar to how we thought of the Sage of Stolen Flame back in 5.0 and how he seems now, doesn't it?

I don't like people comparing him to Dottore (or talking how he's better written Dottore), because while yes, he definitely isn't good... He also isn't evil incarnate. I don't know. He's morally grey, maybe drawing a line between immorality and amorality (hey fandom kids, remember that morally grey doesn't mean a character who is an asshole but can be also nice, but a person who does both good and wrong stuff! <3). They share a thing for experimenting and having weird/no morality, but that's as far as their similarities go. Giving Phlogiston to humans, in a long run, was a good thing, looking at modern Natlan history. It's difficult to put him into a certain category and I think that's also because, above all, he's a dragon - he tried to live among humans, yes, but he never tried to become one of them. Like you said op, maybe it's because he was somewhat close to Xiuhcoatl and that also made him different from other dragons.

Here's another thing, which also FINALLY leads me to the second and last part of my long, long rambling - the infighting between dragons and decline of their civilization after Nibelung and other Sovereigns kicked the bucket or lost their powers/minds. I'll also talk abt Waxaklahun here but about Xiuhcoatl and other dragons as well. Bear with me, please, I know this is getting really long but I have sooo many thoughts and interpretations </3

FUCKING EXACTLY! To me, the main difference between Xiuhcoatl and Waxaklahun and by extensions, the source of their beef, might be how Xiuhcoatl pretty much self-sacrificed himself and lost his mind due to Abyss. Waxaklahun later on starting to sacrifice others. This could be either a disagreement with philosophies, beef over the use of Huitzilopochtli after Nibelung acquired the Forbidden Knowledge, or rather, "I would sacrifice pieces of my flesh but I'd still be considered selfish for waiting to keep my bones" kind of situation. Personally, I feel like all of them could be true at the same time.

Why the last one, tho?

This will be a bit anecdotic and sour for a sec, but I want to use it as a point in the commentary of dragon civilization after Xiuhcoatl faked his death.

As a person who comes from an ethnic minority where a nation pretty much took what it wanted from our culture to make it into its own (happened in Teyvat, look at description of Heavenly Principle's benevolence and creation of this world from that one book from Enkanomiya - I believe it's bullshit lmao), and then did everything to destroy our own perception of culture and individuality and language (to the point it is almost extinct and now, we are just recreating what was left and recorded), I cannot help but somehow see this in the history of dragons in Teyvat. Light Realm had its own rules, its inhabitants, it most likely had normal fauna. And then, Primordial One came and took what it wanted to make its own world there.

>be me >wake up and think about dragon history in Teyvat >start crying

Primordial One killed Nibelung, previous Hydro Sovereign and also Xiuhcoatl faked his death at that time. Imagine losing three major figures (on top of that, looking at descriptions of Primordial Sea and one dialogue during boss fight in 5.3, it seems like Hydro and Pyro Sovereigns might have also been gods of life and death, respectively?) in one battle. I am not sure how much dragons in Natlan knew about Xiuhcoatl plan or what the fuck did he even exactly do, but no matter what, everyone in Light Realm and their mother must have been unsettled.

And of course, when situation is getting uneasy, people are prone to jabbing at each other. And it's especially easy to jab at infulential figures who failed. Like Sovereigns. (something I also see among my people and even friends. Always trying to put blame on somebody for our bad luck or bad opinions about us going around.) Xiuhcoatl was described as a corpse sitting on the throne after he regained Natlan and dragons there devoured angels. Now, Waxaklahun is nowhere being a reliable narrator, but both his description of dragon society regarding Nibelung and Xiuhcoatl are the same - with dragon king dead and Pyro Sovereign becoming shell of his former self, now with his will to fight only, other dragons also became more aggressive. Something something following a hierarchy and knowing your place. I feel like Waxaklahun, with his own trauma, might have been taking his anger and guilt on Xiuhcoatl; and it's especially easy to do when the other side can't defend themselves, right? And without defending the Sage himself, because he was awful father, maybe that's also why he was so pissed off at Och-Kan in their last interaction. In a way, Och-Kan's story and descend into madness parallels Xiuhcoatl. He seems to be awfully sarcastic when speaking both to his son and about Xiuhcoatl later on, when talking with Little One. It was quite literally coming to a full circle.

Speaking of Nibelung. Someone pointed out that out of three Sovereigns that speak of him, Apep seems to follow his footsteps, while Neuvillette's narration voices some doubts about his actions in his character stories. And Xiuhcoatl?

OhohohohOHOHO. HOHOHOHO. Remember how during the battle against Lord of the Primal Fire, the Abyss mocks and plays mind games with Mavuika and Traeveler by using voices of previous Pyro Archons?

There is a certain "he" mentioned a couple of times, and coincidentally, these lines are spoken in Xbalanque's voice. And you know what? I certainly believe this is Xiuhcoatl's consciousness referring to Nibelung. Maybe they also disagreed about using Forbidden Knowledge, as Xiuhcoatl tried to oppose the Abyss. It appears Nibelung also was a morally grey figure, with three of seven Sovereigns having different opinions on him. Interesingly enough, there are two murals depicting Nibelung in Natlan, both of them showing him destroying everything, and both of them are shown to us/narrated by Waxaklahun.

You witness with your own eyes the gargantuan wings from beyond the world, the once glorious and grand figure now pitiable, having completely sunk into the terrifying shadow. The pitch-black flames scorch the land, and even the white tree nearly withered, and the final envoy's glow shattered and smashed, only able to subsist on the last leaves of the severed roots.

(from the world quest Revelations from the Past; in the Hall of Parting Vows, Xbalanque's side of mural leads to a mural of him triumphing over Xiuhcoatl, and Waxaklahun's shows us Nibelung. Hmm.)

One last thought (I hope?), coming back to the myth of Prometheus for a second - you know how opinions of ancient Greeks about the thief of fire were often negative? Not only because he didn't want to help humankind, but also because according to them, he wanted to put himself above Zeus. It'd be interesting if something similar happened within Natlan dragon society - after all the Sage stealing Phlogiston from Xiuhcoatl, the sharer of heat, light and wisdom, to give it to the weak, beloved creations of the usurper, could have caused quite a ruckus. Could he even be considered traitor by them while he tried to reason to himself he did for the good of his own kind? As much as Waxaklahun is a bitch, he's also a really tragic character, and if you think about it, he's really clinging onto the past that will never come back, and restoring it - connecting both humans and dragons together - also won't replace that.

It seems like not only Heavenly Principles killed Nibelung, but also managed to indirectly cause infighting between them, which in the end led to their civilization collapsing.

... Alright. I hope this is ALL I wanted to ramble on. I went from analzying Waxaklahun's behavior to analzying his design briefly to talking about blaming failures of your own kind on others and especially figures of influence. Goddamnit, I don't know if I want to check how many words this post has, but this got real long. Pretty sure I could find even more stuff to talk on and some of things I already wrote might be a bit incoherent or GOD FORBID I GOT SOMETHING WRONG, but I am stuck at home sick and having nothing better to do than overanalyze my favorite fictional war criminals from a gacha game.

I might have strayed a bit from the original topic of op's post, but ughhhh when I get to talk about stuff I observed abt dragons I cannot seem to shut up. Sorry not sorry.

To end this on a more lighthearted/funny note. Thought about one Polish Facebook post and edited it:

"With my brother Xiuhcoatl. He's been dead for 2 years. Xiuhcoatl you were such a dick"

That's basically them, right?

TL;DR ESH (everyone sucks here). In their own way. Falls off the stage and dies.

Regarding the dragons' morality... I wonder, how much of it was ingrained in their biology, or the result of their culture instead ?

And in Natlan, it seems the Saurians have a rather similar concept of family to humans. For example ;

• Chasca's Qucusaurus family, complete with human drama & all.

(Chasca's momma bird even nags her about grandchildren like typical mothers lol.)

• The family of Ayo (Kachina's tepetlisaurus) in 5.3 AQ. He had grandparents who behaved just like human grandparents ! I was actually quite shocked when I played that part of the quest.

(I HATE the AQ with burning passion, but this part ? I have to admit, it's genuinely heartbreaking.)

(From Chain Breaker lore, page 1. Lianca's mother sounded so sweet🥹)

#genshin impact #not art #i talk sometimes #reblog #once again if someone has more knowledge or I said something wrong about irl terms and mythologies- smack me on head with a broom please #maybe it'll also help with my headaches

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kajenus · 17 days ago

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Guys… look who I got in Ikea yesterday

#not art #I talk sometimes #also I got lost in Ikea but that’s basically a common occurrence for me atp #zip zip zip

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kajenus · 17 days ago

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Re: Sovereignship (and the whole thing with Ixlel mentioning "lost colleagues in rulership") I think it's pretty much implied that Natlanese dragons had some kind of polycentricism. Besides Xiuhcoatl (Aztec origin), the rest of dragons we know have Mayan names (Waxaklahun Ubah Kan, Och-Kan, Ajaw are all real names and characters from Mayan mythology and Ixlel's name is taken directly from Mayan language); as far as I'm concerned, unlike Aztec or Inca people, Maya people also had polycentricism going on.

Maya cities tended to be more dispersed than cities in other societies, even within Mesoamerica, as a result of adaptation to a lowland tropical environment that allowed food production amidst areas dedicated to other activities.[1]

Maya cities were not formally planned like the cities of highland Mexico and were subject to irregular expansion, with the haphazard addition to all of the palaces, temples and other buildings.[7] Most Maya cities tended to grow outwards from the core, and upwards as new structures were superimposed upon preceding architecture.[8] Maya cities usually had a ceremonial and administrative centre surrounded by a vast irregular sprawl of residential complexes.[7]

(both via Wikipedia page on Mayan cities)

There also goes origin and etymology of Great Volcano of Tollan, which is a mythical place existing both in records of Aztecs and K'iche' people. In Genshin, it's said at least three times that there was a city here and that's where Xiuhcoatl used to reside.

Thus, passing through searing flame and raging wind, [Waxaklahun Ubah Kan] took as-yet unextinguished primordial kindling from the ancient palace beneath the magma. Bearing the hopes of another race, the wisest of dragons bid farewell to the splendorous city ineffable.

(Obsidian Codex artifact set; that's probably the most unbiased and reliable source we are going to get so far (unless the Sage himself decides to tell us somehow), as the other two sources I'm going to cite are outrightly said to be badly written fanfics in-universe lol)

Our story unfolds in a time when great beasts withdrew from this land, and when the empty Great Volcano of Tollan was occupied by the dark Volcano Lord. The Great Volcano was once the dwelling of great dragons, and on this matter little further need be said. But when they fled amidst the flames, their dwelling was seized by the devious Volcano Lord.

(The Volcano Lord and the Shadow Pins book collection, Vol. 1)

Legends tell us that long, long ago, in the red and black lands, there lived a winged dragon. That dragon was the scion of the great lord of the volcano, Xiuhcoatl. In some versions of the story, it is said he was none other than Xiuhcoatl himself, but the gods only know what kind of storyteller would make such a mistake. After all, who could forget that the one who defeated Xiuhcoatl was the very first Pyro Archon, Xbalanque himself. How could things have been resolved at a point so early in the story? Anyway, when the great lord of the volcano fell into deep slumber, this vain winged dragon claimed the treasures that once belonged to the former, and proclaimed itself to be the lone king.

(Records of Hanan Pacha book collection, Vol. 1; on another note, I'd highly recommend anyone to read the whole thing because it's fucking hilarious and reads just like badly written fanfic from ff.net posted in 2011)

And now, onto the actual, mythological Tollan from irl records.

Tollan is a word in Nahuatl used in Spanish colonial documents. Traditionally, tollan was interpreted as a Nahuatl toponym for Tula, Hidalgo, Mexico. More recent scholarship suggests some kind of broader meaning, such as a place of the reeds. Instead of a toponym for a specific settlement, it is also used as a qualifier to denote a category of densely populated cities.[1]

The epithet "Tollan" was also sometimes applied to any great metropolis or capital. Cholula, for example, was sometimes called "Tollan Cholula", and the Aztec capital of Tenochtitlán was likewise given the title "Tollan". The Mixtec translation of this, Ñuu Co'yo is still the Mixtec name for Mexico City to this day.

Tollan is the name given to the mythical place of origin in many Mesoamerican traditions, including those of the Aztecs and the K'iche' Maya.[2] In the K'iche' epic Popol Vuh, the first people created are gathered at Tollan, the place of seven caves, where they receive their languages and their gods.[3]

(all via Tōllān on Wikipedia)

The place of seven caves. There are also seven elements in Teyvat. Given we have two confirmed Dragonlords now (Ajaw, Dendro, and Ixlel... Well. Someone suggested she could've been Hydro, but dunno), it'd make sense there be more, no? That + Ixlel's words and the meaning of name Ajaw took, like you mentioned... I think it's safe to assume there were more elemental dragonlords and they all had their own kingdoms/smaller civilizations, while Xiuhcoatl was the one to govern Tollan and everything else.

Also an interesting thing about Ixlel's own kingdom - Chichen Ucotah is possibly derived from Chichen Itza, a pre-Columbian Maya city. So I think that other dragon civilizations in Natlan also had names starting with Chichen (which also would make sense, once again, looking at the etymology of the word and dragons dwelling in the depths or smth). And Chichen Itza also might have been a thing in Genshin that way?? Which is also interesting thing because its main deity was K'uk'ulkan, another name for Waxaklahun Ubah Kan...., well. I surely have high demands from any new dragon lore drops we get.

Ixlel and Ajaw

Last night I did the Ochkanatlan World Quest Open Your Heart to Me, I want to talk about my thoughts on Ixlel as a character and all the thoughts that I had about Ajaw during this quest.

Tumblr broke my rubytext so I'm just going to use {curly brackets} to indicate what was original ruby'd.

If you don't recognise "rubytext" as a term, it's supposed to look like this: Little words hovering over the normal text.

The words K'uhul and Ajaw

Before I did this quest, as an Ajaw simp, the information that the words K'uhul and Ajaw appear in this quest was already something I knew about. Even back then, when I saw the screenshots, I guessed that it was a whole lot of nothing, and now that I've seen them in context, I feel that even more strongly.

If you don't remember, K'uhul and Ajaw appear over words in Ixlel's dialogue as rubytext:

Ixlel: For you are the noble one, the Chosen of Dragons. Apart from our lost colleagues in rulership {Ajaw}, you alone have the right to give unto me release befitting of my rank. Ixlel: This is a step of self-protection, and only by this may I not violate the destined {K'uhul}, sacred law.

We know from Kinich Story 5 that K'uhul Ajaw is just a title and not an actual, real name:

It may seem strange that Kinich, loner that he is, goes nowhere without a certain self-proclaimed "K'uhul Ajaw" — meaning "Divine Lord" — hanging around him.

In these rubytexts, Genshin is doing what it usually does with ruby text, it is just providing an alternative word in the relevant dialect. Anyone who is even vaguely interested in Mayan history will know what Ajaw means. It is not actually about Ajaw The Character.

Ajaw The Character rotted in a cave for like, 10 thousand years, or something. Unlike Ixlel he is crazy and eroded by time (in the sense that Zhongli talked about in that one quest ages ago). I don't think he knows his own name anymore, so the title K'uhul Ajaw is all that he offers as part of his weird chuunibyou fantasy. Do I think that The Character Ajaw DID used to be a ruler of some sort? Yes, it's likely. But he's so weird about it that I'm going to keep bullying him.

Even the wiki page about Ixlel seems to have taken the "Ajaw" thing at face value.

In the past, she may have been acquainted with Ajaw, as she refers to him as a "lost colleague in rulership."

While I do feel that it is likely that these dragons knew each other, I do not like how they reached that conclusion. It's also likely that The Character Ajaw IS one of her lost colleagues in rulership, I just wanted to make it really clear that she is not namedropping him or speaking of him explicitly.

The horror and revulsion of draconic evil

While I was playing through this world quest, I couldn't stop thinking about the horror game Amnesia: The Dark Descent. The way we progress further and further underground with no easy way of return, the way that all the pieces of paper you pick up tell such bleak stories of death, decay, cruelty, and some sort of deep, eldritch evil as the human characters uncover an ancient artifact that is beyond their comprehension. Ixlel's sealed self seems to radiate a dark, unknowable curse that torments the people who are digging, and she appears in Manqu's vision in a terrifying way. (Artisan's Memo (II))

Back when it happened, beneath that giant, grotesque statue, I met a young woman within Och-Kan's fire. Slowly and calmly she walked towards me, as if the fire were nothing more than a gentle spring breeze. Her face… I have never seen anything like it. Even the purest of crystals could not be fashioned into the likeness of such skin, nor could the purest of turquoise be carved into such eyes. Yet for reasons I cannot explain, that face, which should have been the very picture of beauty, was… so nauseatingly repulsive. I did not know who — nor even what — she was. I opened my mouth and wanted to beg her, beg her to save me, yet my lips… had been burned beyond all recognition, and I could not utter even a single word. She smiled, a smile laced with a cruel and arrogant malice. She held my face in her hand, and from those turquoise eyes, golden tears fell into mine. And then I saw it. A colossal creation, far larger than the rolling mountains, shining with a brilliance more dazzling than obsidian, floating in the sky like a volcanic cloud. Around it circled countless giant metal birds, greedily sucking away at its dark blood. I saw shadows driven by flowing flames, climbing high from distant horizons to the moon up in the sky, from which tremors and sighs were sent out unimaginable distances via but a single string woven from gold and white copper. She sneered by my ear, as if all humanity had achieved up to this point was nothing more than child's play, as utterly inconsequential as the doings of ants, of beings capable only of crawling around beneath the heavens, trembling away while seeking their inglorious graves. And what they fought, what they were pitted up against, was an inveterate foe as formidable as an entire world. Through those turquoise eyes, those pupils whose beauty was almost terrifying, I saw naught but endless, unfathomable darkness and void; a space that no language could describe, unlike anything I have ever seen in the brief few decades of my transient life. So it was that I began to scream, stumbling as I crawled along that path, but even my blood-curdling screams were drowned out by her laughter, and dissipated without a trace. When I next woke, I was lying here alone. I did not dare look back, lest those profane, forbidden things, those things that no person should ever know, might catch and tear me to pieces. The others must all have died, perishing in the flames of Och-Kan's fire. Perhaps those were not her tears. Perhaps they were simply drops of water that fell from that giant, grotesque stone statue behind her. Perhaps there was nothing in the fire, and that woman was just an illusion of my delirium, something I imagined as I stood on the precipice of death. But now, none of that matters; for I am still alive, and that is all that counts.

I'm going to keep referring back to that passage.

This... evil, grotesque uncovering of a sealed dragon forms a parallel to the discovery of Ajaw in Kinich's Character Story 5.

All this goes back to an ancient dragon ruin that was rumored to contain a "secret draconic treasure." It was unearthed due to an earthquake, and before long, had attracted much attention. After more than a few initial surveying parties were lost, however, any interested parties that were still remaining began to wise up. At this time, Kinich was already a Saurian Hunter of some repute, and thus was invited by one such team to join. It was only after they had entered that they found the place teeming with monsters and mechanisms, discovering that it was far more perilous than the rumors had suggested. Some died, others were wounded, and others still fell back, until at last only Kinich reached the ruin's depths. And that was where he encountered the ancient being, K'uhul Ajaw, who had been sealed away. He immediately sensed the wickedness in the other party's voice, but also realized that its power might be useful even so.

They gloss over it but man, people died, lol.

I don't know, I just think it's interesting that these dragons are supposed to be nauseatingly horrifying to an average human. And then you meet them and they're just kind of cringe little guys. The way they are spoken about makes them feel like they're some type of Keter SCP.

I like the little crumb that apparently ritualistic killing is more normal than corn in dragon society.

Ixlel: Cut my chest open as you would peel Grainfruit leaves, and dig my heart out. Paimon: Sure... Uh, wait a minute. You just said something super scary so casually... Ixlel: Scary? You mean the Grainfruit? How chicken-hearted you are, elemental floating object... Paimon: What? What are you talking about? Who'd be afraid of Grainfruit anyway? Paimon's talking about that last part, with the whole "dig out your heart" thing! Ixlel: Hmm? Is that not a more pedestrian thing than Grainfruit? Ah, Noble (Traveler), do you not have your servants attend you as you partake in sacrifices?

Parallels with Ajaw

I guess my above section already starts to go into how Ixlel and Ajaw have a lot of parallels with each other. There are a lot of things we can extrapolate about Ajaw now that we have met Ixlel.

Human form: In Manqu's vision (I pasted almost the whole thing higher up), Ixlel appears as a disgustingly beautiful human woman. I think it's safe to assume that Ajaw likely had his own human form back in the day, though whether he remembers what it looks like or if we will ever be able to see it is something that I do not know.

Entrapment: It's pretty obvious that the nature of their entrapment is similar. Ixlel's full name is even Ix Uxul Tz'ib Bolon Ch'ule-L {Type-L Self-Regulating Overseer Array Integrated Processing Unit}, as you can see from the rubytext, those fuckers gave her a name as if she is just some fancy model of computer! When I first met her, I assumed she was some ancient dragon AI module, not a real dragon who got trapped in a statue. In the quest it is shown that she has limited "life force" in this state and by the end she uses it all up and dies. It makes me feel like Ajaw got really lucky getting imprisoned the way that he was. Whether he too has a limited life force is unknown but the way that he has a human form lined up (Kinich) makes me think that he has an ever-evolving life ahead of him. He is fortunate to be able to project himself with phlogiston, unlike Ixlel who at best can appear in the sick delirious burning visions of humans, something that we don't get to see for ourselves.

Outlook on life: Ixlel is still quite level headed and tormented by her memories, explaining to us that they are a curse to her (and the mechanism by which she was imprisoned?). The whole quest is about her asking to die in a dignified manner, for she knows she is slowly dying anyway. Compare to Ajaw who is kind of delusional, seems to have forgotten a whole lot of shit, and is generally bent on staying alive and making it everyone else's problem.

Sovereignship: This is something I am very hazy about, but whenever Ajaw would call himself a sovereign I had thought that he was trying to pass himself off as the literal Pyro Sovereign. Perhaps he Was trying to lie about that, or maybe I'm just fucking stupid, because Ixlel introduces herself as the sovereign of Chichen Uctokah which according to the wiki is the original dragon civilization in the area of Ochkanatlan. I'm not going to fact check that myself so I just hope it's true. So yeah I'm... hmm I can't reach a coherent conclusion with this information but it's something I will chew on. It just recontextualised to me what a dragon could mean when they say Sovereign.

Thoughts on the Chosen of Dragons: I like how Ixlel recognises Lumine as the Chosen of Dragons and immediately thinks highly of her. I think this is partially why the human character Manqu has such a hostile encounter with her, whilst we get to have a fairly wholesome conversation with her instead. I don't think Ajaw knows Lumine is Chosen of Dragons and I'm unsure as to if he is able to do anything with the information, but as someone who is obsessed with Ajaw's relationship with the traveler it gives me another thing to think about.

Ajaw death flag?:

Ixlel: Hehe... It seems you have yet to meet my colleagues of old. Ixlel: Otherwise, they would have told you that destruction is our destined {K'uhul} path. There is no need for another, nor is it possible to find one.

(I don't actually think it's that serious, I'm sure all the "erosion" that Ajaw has gone through is probably destruction enough.)

My thoughts on Ixlel as a character

Ix Uxul Tz'ib Bolon Ch'ule-L {Type-L Self-Regulating Overseer Array Integrated Processing Unit}... When Paimon takes her long name and just decides to call her Ixlel instead, I thought that was so rude, but as usual I immediately took it on and started using it myself.

Side note about Paimon:

It's my headcanon that Paimon knows all of the dialects in Teyvat (for there isn't just Teyvatian, there are MANY real world languages that are in Teyvat, most obvious example is how Yun Jin always sings in Chinese no matter the dub) and that is why we are able to "read" all the papers we pick up, because it feels unrealistic to me that they would ALL be written in Teyvatian instead of the regional dialect. Anyway, according to the wiki, Ixlel is a Mayan Tzeltal word that means "little sister". This choice of nickname kind of intensifies my headcanon about Paimon knowing all the languages. It also makes it a very cute nickname.

Hmm... You know, if her full name just translates to that rubytext computer name... I just realised that her original name must have been lost as well. Do dragons even have names at all, do they just go by different titles throughout their lives in the same way that their physical form is constantly changing? Or are Ixlel and Ajaw just specific cases... Unsure if Ixlel is also 'eroded' or if her name was overwritten when she was imprisoned, it's probably the latter.

When I did the quest, I actually did the entire thing thinking that Ixlel was male. Only when I was reading more scraps of paper in the final room did it click for me that the evil woman in Manqu's vision and the stammery dragon statue were one and the same.

I LOVE her. She has overthrown Apep in my mind as the sexiest dragon waifu (lol). And I miss her so much already...

She has that same dusty old haughty way of speaking that Ajaw does, but she's much nicer to us and stammers when she gets flustered...

And she got enslaved so bad

Wasn't going to drink tonight but I'm missing Ixlel like a motherfucker

#reblogging and adding this on main because I could talk about this topic for HOURS #god I need to design all these mfs in human disguises finally..#ALSO OP MY HEART MISSED A BEAT WHEN I SAW YOU MENTION AMNESIA NO FUCKING WAY #I LOVE AMNESIA I LOVE NATLAN DRAGON LORE HELLO #glad to see another genshin fan who knows about amnesia! this game still haunts me #in a. I still think about it and the lore. way #now you mentioned it.#Och-Kan's dark descent #he's just like Daniel fr fr #also if anyone had more knowledge about any of irl topics I mentioned feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong!!

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