#no cause jonsa

[sherlokiness]

Dany, by her own standards, is a slave owner and deserves death. The Dothraki owned slaves and so did she, when she was unfortunate enough to marry in them at the age of 13. She didn't have a choice? Yeah 13 year old children also didn't have a choice in being born in a slaving society. If they deserve to die for this, so does Dany. But of course she is the biggest hypocrite in the series.

Yes. We should look at the indivudual circumstance of precious Daenerys Targaryen, Khaleesi and was ahead of the razing Khalasar, while her sun and stars was rounding up free people to sell into slavery to fund her ambition for the IT because having a home and a child was enough for any woman but not for the blood of the dragon. But those other slave owners? They can just rot all in hell.

Also, by her own standards, yet again, she doesn't have the right to the IT anymore as evidenced by how she ruled against the woman who wanted her own house back. She's gonna fold like a lawn chair about the rightful heir and usurpers once she knows she actually isn't.

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Do you think there is any possibility of a political marriage between Jon and Sansa? I just don't see any point in it. Not to mention that she is already married. But this theory is relatively popular and I don't understand why

No, it doesn't make sense, and it's extremely unlikely. It's popular because people ship them, and think a political marriage is a way out of the cousins-who-were-raised-as-and-believe-they're-siblings problem, and also think the show north storyline is how the books will go. Really, that's all there is to it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[babybells123]

There is something so beautifully anvilicious about these quotes;

" I am a bastard too now, just like him. Oh, it would be so sweet, to see him once again. But of course that could never be. Alayne Stone had no brothers, baseborn or otherwise." (AFFC, Alayne II)

"The dream was sweet . . . but Winterfell would never be his to show. It belonged to his brother, the King in the North. He was a Snow, not a Stark. Bastard, oathbreaker, and turncloak . . ." (ASOS, Jon V)

Both Jon and Sansa are yearning for Winterfell and the feelings/memories/family associated -but both are intrinsically restricting themselves based off of their bastard status. The notion of Sansa being the only Stark (and character) to transition from a high-born noble lady to a baseborn bastard cannot be overlooked. (And then of course, the notion of Jon being the only Stark (and character) to transition from baseborn bastard to lord commander, cannot be overlooked.) Jon has risen to the top whilst Sansa has lowered to the bottom.

She (GRRM) makes the comparison to Jon herself, meaning that GRRM makes the comparison himself. this isn't something interpreted by fans - it is right there, explicitly within the text.

Sansa's desire to reunite with Jon is "sweet," it'd be almost like a dream come true. Jon's "dream was sweet" as well. But "Winterfell could never be his" and seeing her brother once again "of course, could never be" (possible).

And then later on in the text, Jon is offered the chance to become Jon Stark, and have Winterfell in name. Thus his decidedly unsubtle desire (that he dismisses as an entirely impossible dream) is fulfilled by Stannis' offer, even though he eventually rejects it in truth "Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa."

There is also the quote that precedes Jon's "sweet dream," where he fantasises about a beautiful little romance with Ygritte; showing her a flower from the glass gardens, feasting her in the great hall, bathing in the hot pools, and loving beneath the heart tree. This dream is directly connected to Winterfell and is obviously sexually + romantically charged.

So whilst Jon's desire is partially fulfilled (even if he doesn't accept it) can we possibly assume that Sansa's simultaneously unsubtle "that could never be" may also be fulfilled? Since GRRM seems to really be beating us over the head with how 'that could never happen' from Sansa's internal monologue "no one will ever marry me for love" is reiterated multiple times (just you wait sweet one!) and Sansa desiring to reunite with her brother who she has modelled her bastardry after, who is supposedly the only brother left to her, is immediately dismissed by Sansa because she's accepted the fact that she'll never be with her family again, (and that she shall never encounter true love).

The connections only keep connecting!

So to summarise:

Jon & Sansa both have "sweet" dreams/desires that connect to Winterfell/family.

Jon's dream is sexually/romantically charged, involves a red-headed girl, and establishes Jon's suppressed desires as actually romantic.

Both Jon and Sansa are bastards in these contexts.

Both Jon and Sansa woefully dismiss these dreams/desires as impossible as "that could never be" and "it could never be his to show."

Jon's desire however is later offered on a silver platter by Stannis Baratheon, to which he mulls over and states that he "has always wanted it" (to be his). Though he later refuses Stannis' offer on the basis that "Winterfell belongs to Sansa" - twice over he says this.

Jon 'giving' Winterfell to Sansa is in direct contrast to Robb (Sansa's image of an honourably idealistic older brother) flat out rejecting Sansa's claim on the basis of her marriage to Tyrion.

Jon thus establishes himself as the only character who respects and protects Sansa's claim. Who does not abuse or exploit it. (Even though he was given the opportunity for it and it's been his innermost desire since childhood.)

In a way, this further conveys Jon as Sansa's unspoken, subconscious hero who is protecting her interests and instilling all those heroic ideals (such as the Janos Slynt situation) - though she does not realise it and has accepted that "there are no heroes" at all. But Jon is the true hero, hiding in plain sight.

So, whilst Sansa believes there are no heroes, Jon fulfils those ideals. Whilst Sansa believes no one will marry her for love, Jon exists as the embodiment of all the chivalric, romantic ideals that she's so desperately wanted.

Can we now assume that Sansa believing that she will essentially never see Jon again as entirely anvilicious as she will in fact see Jon again?

GEORGE I'M IN YOUR WALLS.

[fromtheseventhhell]

people really think emilia was the one who stopped jonsa from happening??? 🤡

You have to understand, at the time the show was airing Jonsas were fully convinced that their ship was going to happen. When it didn't, instead of just acknowledging that they were wrong they turned everything into some big conspiracy theory💀. They claimed Emilia complained to D&D and that's why it didn't happen, even though if she had that kind of sway she would've 100% used it for her own character. They decided that HBO just got "nervous" and chose to give Jonsa scenes to Gendrya, which is why we got a sex scene for them. They even briefly blamed Kit before deciding to hyper-analyze every interview he had and deciding that he was subtly giving us Jonsa hints. According to them, everybody was conspiring to erase Jonsa. That's what happens when you build your ship off of nothing though, you have to be a bit delusional to make it work.

[jonsasource]

it must be a very different text that they’re reading… a song of liquid ice by gerom r.r. monty maybe? idk…

[lesbian-sansa]

Why is it always the same person

I don’t think A WHOLE JONSA can preach about what others should or shouldn’t ship

[swordsandarms]

Hmmmmm.... maybe a hot take for everyone who wants their female character of choice to be queen of this or that... But your girl would NOT be in a position to marry some nobody guy or low status man out of love - they would have to marry a high enough Bannerman Lord to protect their position, especially if they are a first time female ruler (either Queen or ruling Lady) - Dorne is only an exception to the last bit, but a Ruling Princess still needs a prestigious marriage also. Like, ALL heirs and heiresses do that.

- No, Arya wouldn't get to marry a bastard Gendry Waters of nowhere or even her bastard cousin Jon - obviously she can't marry "legitimised brother" Jon Stark for other reasons.

- No, Sansa wouldn't get to marry lowly knight Sandor, or (lol for the crack) her bastard cousin Jon - again, obviously she cannot marry the legitimate Jon Stark BECAUSE.

The only "realistic" popular potential love match would be Jonerys IF Jon keeps the secret of his parentage and marries Daenerys as a King Jon Stark stepping down hence being made consort of 7K as enough of a price worthy in the eyes of the Bannerman to kneel again to the IT, like Dorne did a while back.

Otherwise, everyone is being silly.

[long-claw]

⚠️this is anti jonsa and jonrya if you don't want to read please just don't i'm not interested in arguing⚠️

so i mostly just try and avoid jonsa and jonrya posts cause i'm not a fan but ultimately i agree with letting people ship what they want, and for the most part it's not harming anyone and i just hope that the shippers don't have siblings lmao

but i just need to rant for a sec because why do so many jonsa and jonrya shippers want it to be canon in the books?? and are convinced one or the other will be canon in the books? because, like, that would make jon (a character the shippers presumably like) a canon pedo!

setting aside the incest (which is hard but clearly a lost cause) i can understand aus and that by the end of the show sophie turner and maisie williams were adults but in the books sansa's 13 and arya's 11, whereas jon's 17! which, in my books, would make him a nonce 😭

like i get it's a different time and god knows how much of this fandom just don't care about adults being with literal children but i love jon and he's already canonically fucked his aunt in the show so i'd really also rather he doesn't fuck his literal child sisters/cousins, is that too much to ask people to not campaign for?

not to mention it's not just any 13 and 11 year olds but ones he watched grow up and as someone with a 14 year old sister i can't even wrap my head around her being a teenager, like she's fully still a baby to me, so it's just so weird to me.

anyway just a bit of a mean thing to wish upon a pretty morally sound character... at least in the context of asoiaf. grrm please don't move jon to the same category as the likes of tyrion, drogo and jorah 🙏

[nobodysuspectsthebutterfly]

Oh, indeed. There is an incredibly popular quote used in probably hundreds of jonsa graphics and a few metas and no doubt a lot of videos by now, "Stone and snow, that was all that was left of Winterfell. Just like her and Jon." I have no idea where it originally came from, some 2011/2-era fanfic or graphic edit, but it certainly does not come from GRRM. Heck, it's not even grammatically correct and not even really GRRM's style (not that that's ever stopped anyone).

And yet, a few years ago, a jonerys friend asked me to proofread their meta disputing various jonsa claims… and within their essay, they had spent 6-8 paragraphs disputing this quote. 🤦‍♀️ They were extremely surprised to hear it was not actual ASOIAF text that they needed to consider.

And there's so much out there, just like this. Another pervasive one, non-ship related, is “a harp in the tomb, a child in the womb, a dragon in a stone egg”, a nice bit of poetry sourced only from a theory essay postulating Rhaegar's harp is in Lyanna's tomb. People have come to me going, "but that theory must be true, I mean, the poem!" and I had to gently explain he drew the receipts himself.

(lol, well, I say not ship-related even though it's R+L=J, but I tend to think of those obsessed with it (particularly that essayist) more as theory-obsessives rather than ship-obsessives. Not to slight shippers, I'm one myself, but it's a different kind of attitude for text analysis and projection, focusing less on proof of love specifically.)

But yeah, made up or misread jonsa theories are hilariously pervasive -- "the girl in grey" for one (it's Alys Karstark, who came to the Wall as a girl in grey riding a dying horse escaping a forced marriage. GRRM gave the answer in the book the prophecy appeared ffs, the whole story point of the prophecy is that Jon sent Mance and the spearwives to Winterfell to aid "Arya" and thus they ended up in Theon and Jeyne's storyline, but no, Sansa's going to do it all over again just because!) And my Ashford tourney crack theory they stole and misinterpreted (it was about Aegon, and about the fact nobody won the tourney because of Dunk (Sandor, lol, though I'll accept Brienne too), and I've seen people seriously considering it important even though I admit it's almost certainly coincidence and doesn't mean anything! Jonsas aren't the only ones of course, believe me I've seen some tremendous crack in my own ship, but I'm thinking specifically of cases like that where the actual text of the story (Alys Karstark, Mance, Jeyne, Theon; or the historical events of the tourney where Dunk and Egg met and Baelor Breakspear died) doesn't even seem to exist if you're only looking at edits and videos and other fanworks. It gives a wildly bizarre reading of the text if you've never actually read it.

And yes, twitter is full of these cases where the text has become irrelevant, where people make inferences and projections on top of distanced inferences and projections. Not to exclude worg and reddit, where people just make theories-on-top-of-theories, building up enormous cloud castles with no real foundation. Like the Southron Ambitions Conspiracy (textually, the rantings of a lonely paranoid woman), which developed (rationally) into the fan theory that "the STAB bloc formed to remove the Targaryens", but people use that as a basis for so much more, defaulting it as true, even though it is still only an unproven theory! And because it's maester-related and Targaryen-related, it's been mixed with the maester anti-magic conspiracy (very likely true, but also very shadily sourced within the text), into this enormous Protocols of the Elders of Hightower bizarre conspiracy theory that the Hightowers and Citadel want to control all of Westeros and killed all the Targaryens and dragons even the ones who were killed by each other and you can't trust the maester-written Fire & Blood in any way! except it's an inviolate text for the parts you want to be true and nothing is real but everything is, how dare you say otherwise.

Anyway, thank you so much re the term "sourcecreep" and that Jack Sparrow not-a-quote. Fascinating stuff.

@ilynpilled

ppl being more interested in Fandom than the actual source text is so real like they do have their own nonexistent text thats just a recycled concoction of the same bland fandom incorrect quotes tropes over and over again which deviates so much from the canon and they prefer to the actual thing lol

my favorite example of sourcecreep is the fact that if you go on reddit, pinterest, or facebook, or google image search 7 years ago, or flickr and photobucket if you're properly fandom old, you will find image edits of disney's jack sparrow with the quote overlay "the problem is not the problem. the problem is your attitude about the problem."

if you've seen enough of these edits (there are many thousands of them), you might even read those two sentences in his trademark cadence.

the problem here, though, is not anyone's attitude about the problem. it's that this quote has never appeared in any of the five films in which jack sparrow appears. nor in any of the video games he stars or guest-stars on. nor in any of the tie-in young jack sparrow novels or the film novelizations. it is not from a deleted scene or an early draft of any script. it's not from any of the disney park parades or firework shows in which jack is included as a face character with recorded speaking lines. it's not from the original ride or the re-dress of the ride post-dead man's chest.

this is a quote from the YA series the sisterhood of the traveling pants. one of the characters' coaches says it to them in one of the books because they are children in high school. there is no reason for it to be attributed to this character or this franchise besides one patient zero at some point or another 20 years ago making an image with a text overlay on picnik photo editor and uploading it to their livejournal or whatever.

anyway this is how asoiaf fans on twitter absorb information about their favs from the series and then post about it. i believe there are many such cases across fandom at large.

[sherlokiness]

Jon likes a princess

I'm gonna try to explain but I think the only legitimate anti jonsa argument I can accept that it will never happen because Sansa is not Jon's type and their ideals don't click. He doesn't like girls like Sansa of which I can't fault him for. Like Ned falling for Cersei or something like that.

All the other anti jonsa arguments can be blown off because they are hypocritical. No one bats an eye on aegony and jonrya so clearly, they think Jon is fully capable of jumping the incest hurdle. But when you mention jonsa they go "oh that's incest" which comes back to the hypocritical part. It's accepted that Jon will marry his auntie by relying on Jonnel/Sansa precedent to get rid of the incest label but when jonsas raise an eyebrow it can never be? Are they hearing themselves? Why can Jon jump the incest hurdle for Dany/Arya but not Sansa?

She is not a princess. "As you wish, Your Grace."

Jon sighed. He was weary of explaining that Val was no true princess.

Val is no princess, though. I told him that half a hundred times.

She may not be a princess, but she would make a worthy wife for any lord.

I think we can establish what Jon thinks of Val's princess status and that he doesn't consider her as one. Why the turn around? Well, it was when he was thinking that if she were one, he decided she'd be a warrior princess.

Why not? thought Jon. They are all convinced she is a princess. Val looked the part and rode as if she had been born on horseback. A warrior princess, he decided, not some willowy creature who sits up in a tower, brushing her hair and waiting for some knight to rescue her.

We're focusing too much on warrior part. Why the need to suddenly elevate Val's status despite vehemently denying it before? It's like when he's thinking of his mother, she has to be beautiful and high born and not a whore. So he does like princesses but not the damsels in the tower.

This is an allusion to Sansa and the only one who perfectly checks all mark in the text. And if we're gonna admit this princess in a tower is Sansa then I've got bad news because there is another princess in a tower in the story - Arianne. She has been unlucky in love multiple times but we later find out that it was designed that way by her father bc she has been promised from the start- to a dragon/Targaryen concerning a secret pact. 🫢🫢🫢

Why would Jon say he prefers the fake princess Val over Sansa? It's not as if those ladies would want to be rescued by a bastard like him. It was never an option. If you get into community college, do you need to say I hate Harvard anyway?

Florent's face grew flushed with anger. "So it is true. You mean to keep her for yourself, I see it now. The bastard wants his father's seat."

The bastard refused his father's seat. If the bastard had wanted Val, all he had to do was ask for her.

Val, the warrior princess, was within his reach. So Jon is just being a sour grapes. Then there's Dany being at odds with winesellers and Sansa saving a drunk man from a tyrant.

And if want to dig deeper, the story concerns a hungry fox. What is Jon's deepest wish?

He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade.

Jon wants a son and Winterfell. There's the Val/Sansa contrast again because he could have satisfied his hunger but he didn't because of the appearance of Ghost/Sansa.

1) Sansa is an actual princess and not a fake. She's not some relative of the one who married the King.

2) Was locked in the highest tower of Maegor's Holdfast by Cersei and the Eyrie by LF

3) Brushing her hair while waiting for her knight

Had Joffrey found out about her meetings with Ser Dontos? Please no, she thought as she brushed out her hair. Ser Dontos was her only hope.

It's really hard that the only reasonable anti jonsa argument I could accept was written with bullet points concerning Sansa. Like GRRM won't let me win.🫤

[cellsshapedlikestars]

ok so I don't get involved in fandom drama, but I saw a post that got me thinking about one of my favorite jonsa moments in the books that I feel like is a bit overlooked?

I'm putting it under a cut because my thoughts are scattered and possibly confusing but whatever lol

so I found the post on my for you tab (why do i even go in there?) and it was about how Sansa is super classist for this part: Sansa sighed as she stitched. "Poor Jon," she said. "He gets jealous because he's a bastard."

(Don't worry, the poster did point out that all the Starks are classist to some degree, but Sansa is the most, and how Arya just thinks of him as her brother. gotta love people who try to bury their Sansa hate lol. like there was no other point to the post. it didn't even make me mad cause it was just kind of a dumb, very surface level take that was clearly just meant to point out how Sansa's such a meanie)

now, if you follow me, you probably know that I'm not someone who reads a ton of metas or even believes jonsa will be canon, but if it is, I think this is such an underrated moment.

Because Sansa sees him in a way none of her other siblings do, because she doesn't think of him as her true brother.

Arya thinks of Jon as her brother. For her, she and Jon are the same, but they aren't, and she doesn't see that - because she's 9 years old and for her, Jon is an outsider like her, and that relationship is such a safe space for her. (ugh I actually love the Jon & Arya relationship I really don't get to write it enough because I do tend to focus more on Sansa's relationship with Arya). Anyway, Arya doesn't really understand the implications of Jon being a bastard. Like, that isn't going to change for him, except in a very extreme circumstance. But she will always be trueborn. (we're taking gender out of the equation here, which is its own beast that has been talked about a ton so I won't go into it)

Arya is blinded by her love and adoration of Jon. Robb doesn't see it at all because why would he even consider it? (and even if he did, we don't see it cause there's no Robb POV). Bran and Rickon are probably too young to think about. But Sansa sees Jon for who he is, and what she says is a fact. Is it a nice thing to say? Maybe not, but it is 100% true, and she's clearly emotionally intelligent enough to see his circumstances and understand how that effects his actions.

I think that's why I found the post so funny, cause I'm like - and? Jon IS a jealous bastard. He spends the entire Winterfell feast being soooooo salty about Joffrey and Myrcella and Tommen and even Robb (radiant Sansa gets a pass tho) even though there's literally no other reason for it. He spends the rest of the books trying so hard to suppress how much he wants to be Lord of Winterfell. He loves Robb, but he's jealous of Robb, and he struggles a lot with that and feels guilty for wanting what Robb has.

Anyway, this is one of my fav jonsa foreshadowings (if it ever becomes canon) because to me, it just means that Sansa can see through his bullshit better than a lot of other people. And I like the idea of that, that she sees him.

meanwhile Jon's just over there like "yeah yeah yeah, Sansa's radiant, but have you seen how insipid Myrcella is??"

[agentrouka-blog]

do you think the asoiaf series have an issue with romanticizing incest ? sometimes i feel like even a pulpy series like flowers in the attic better managed to communicate the horror of incest by making it a sort of family curse

It's not romanticizing incest any more than it is romanticizing violent abuse of power. GRRM's storytelling style is geared around the reader having to make their own judgments of whether or not a character's actions and choices are "good" or "bad" or harmful or life-affirming, or destructive or effective.

And he is definitely not writing "horror" in the sense of chilling you to the bone emotionally. (Which is valid, too.) He's writing a bit more intellectually than that. He's examining the subject. From multiple angles.

Why is incest harmful? What is harmful about it? Given a general lack of natural inclination toward it, what underlying forces are bringing it forth in the story? Are they similar to the underlying forces that cause other forms of harm?

When characters romanticize incest in the story, or when they normalize it (fictional historians or other characters about the Targs, mainly) this too is the author asking you to use your brain and question that.

If you read Fire and Blood and expect that the author is presenting you with Protagonists to Identify With instead of A Problem To Analyze, you're reading it wrong. It's fictional non-fiction. Literally a fake history book.

As for the actual novel series, you're still not seeing him romanticizing incest through characters like codependent Lannister-supremacy murder twins Jaime and Cersei, or Viserys's abuse of Dany, or Craster, or the rumors of Black Walder Frey. They all involve misogyny and objectification, supremacist disdain of "lesser" people, and/or outright generational cycles of sexual and emotional abuse.

Jonsa as a concept, too, is an examination of the underlying forces. In the so-called "original outline" (really one of many), GRRM directly plays with the concept of an incest romantic attraction between Jon and a Stark half-sister (named Arya in that case) that "torments" them, and is likely to be at least in part a commentary on the distortion of family relationships through the rigid status differences enforced by their oppressive feudal, patriarchal society. As in, the incest is not fetishized or romanticized, it is a problem that has to be miraculously overcome by the revelation of Jon's actual degree of relation, which paves over the "perversion" that existed because there was no natural family bond.

So... no, absolutely not. There is no romanticizing. The book series absolutely requires critical thinking, there is meant to be some emotional distance induced by the excesses it depicts, giving you room to question and analyze. If you swallow it all as a form of "different in-universe morality" then you're missing the point.

[fromtheseventhhell]

"My lady, you do not have to do this. The risk—" "—is mine, Lord Snow. And I am no southron lady but a woman of the free folk. I know the forest better than all your black-cloaked rangers. It holds no ghosts for me." (Jon VIII, ADWD)

Smh, doesn't Val know she's a traditionally feminine southron lady stand-in? 🙄

[esther-dot]

Jonsa Reunion

Safe and Sound 1k (I just have to highlight that this was posted in 2014)

Sansa escapes Baelish and finds her way to Castle Black.

Kiss of Undeath ficlet by @haraways

Sansa brings Jon back with a kiss.

Without You I Am Nothing 1k by @asbestosmouth

Castle Black is monochrome, but Sansa blazes like the fires of Rh'llor. Jon cannot help but burn.

Gifsets: Jonsa Hug by @joanna-lannister, Jonsa Hug by @c-sand, The Girl in Grey, Jonsa Hug 1, 2 by @kitnjon

Art: Jonsa Hug, Jonsa Hug by @vierverdeen, Jonsa Hug by @themarmic

Jon Comes Back Wrong

grave-dirt 3k by @charmtion

The edge of the world. The yawning dark. In his chest, a strange sluggish beat.

back in the pulse 2k WIP by @chispas-and-broken-bindings

(Who are you?) A dead man. A monster. The mistake of many and one. (And what have you lost?) Everything. (And what have you found?) You. (And what will you do with me?) Protect you. Always.

Made of Echos and Ice 1k by @thewolvescalledmehome

Ever since coming down from the Eyrie, Sansa has had the same dream. A wolf with white paws pacing in the snow. When she learns of the betrayal at the Wall, Sansa decides to do something about her dream.

i fall to pieces (when i'm with you) 70k by usuallysunny

"Go North. Only North. Jon is Lord Commander at the Castle Black. He'll help you." He'd had good intentions, this broken shadow of a man who used to be Theon, and he couldn't have known. Sansa finds a Lord Commander at Castle Black. He has steel-grey eyes, her father's eyes, and a dark beard framing a strong jaw, and he looks and sounds and moves like Jon... But he's not Jon.

Always Her ficlet by @temporal-tempest

Jon Snow came back darker, unreachable until her hand touched his face. This is what happens when you threaten that which has become the only warmth in a dark heart.

At Castle Black

My eyes were wide open 10k by @eruherdiriel

She hesitates, then reaches for his free hand, his other still tangled in Ghost’s fur. Their palms meet, hers warm against his chilly one, and the relief that rushes through him at her touch almost makes him close his eyes and forget the throbbing pain. “Do you remember what happened?” All he recalls are knives in the dark and cold, bitter cold. * It is in dreams that Jon begins to remember who he is.

Kisses Remembered, Kisses Forgotten 2k by QueenOfSloths

She remembers the kiss that he took. The only thing she doesn’t remember is him taking it. There are times when she is almost certain that she gave it willingly.

'cause i know that it's delicate 4k by @noqueenbutthequeeninthenorth

Set during "Book of the Stranger," immediately after Sansa arrives at the Wall. He goes to build the fire back up, and for a few minutes he stays silent, kneeling at the hearth, not looking at her. Finally he clears his throat. “I know,” he begins, “it’s not exactly what you’re used to — ” “You’d be surprised what I’m used to.”

make your fingers soft and light 10k by @ladyalice101

Jon goes quiet again, and his hand retracts, but just as quickly he is touching her again, oil on his fingers. He works methodically, moving from one wound to the next, one scar to another, from the base of her back to the top of her spine. It’s so gentle, so caring, and the longer it goes on the more Sansa relaxes, the safer she feels. Her eyes dip close under his rhythmic ministrations, and her mind goes blank, and she starts to feel the familiar lull of sleep edge around her mind. “This is supposed to make the scars fade?” Jon asks as he finishes up, his warm hands leaving her back, making her feel cold and startling her from her reverie. “Yes.” She isn’t sure she imagines the tightness in his voice when he speaks again. “If you are to do this every night, then I will gladly assist you.” // Jon rubs a soothing balm into Sansa's scars every night. But that's it. Nothing more. Definitely not. He's just there to help her do what she can't do herself.

as the night came down in a Nordic sky ficlet by @miazeklos

During her first night in Castle Black, Sansa reunites with the true North, and Jon welcomes her home.

Cold Nights at Castle Black ficlet by @estherruth-jonsatrash

They were grown now, childhood behind them. Yet they had been sharing a bed more like children, with the cold at Castle Black leaving them in need of warmth. At least at first.

How I wish you would take me for granted ficlet by @trollslanda

Sometimes her hands would shake- Solely in private, when she broke her quiet surface to gasp for air. Around others she still had a mental block, passively guarding her, bringing out the Stark iron. It made her keep her back straight and eyes steady, put up a solid front. Sometimes it felt like she was rusting from the inside and her brittle bones would never be whole again. --- Set shortly after Sansa has arrived at Castle Black, when she's still learning to feel safe. As it turns out, Jon is really good at that kind of thing.

Remedy ficlet by @wildflower-daydreamer

The night Jon and Sansa reunite at Castle Black.

To break and to mend ficlet @dreams-for-spring

In those moments nothing else matters and they forget what they have lost; in those moments they are more than the sum of their broken parts.

In the quiet of the night 4k by dreams-for-spring

It becomes a habit; each night she unlatches her chamber door, and each night Jon enters just as bashfully as before. Some nights he brings terrible sour wine, and others bitter ale for them to share as they sit around the hearth speaking of everything that has happened–everything except what has passed between him and his black brothers. She knows that is a topic he is not ready to share. Still, she does not find sleep when he leaves, but at least for those brief hours she is not alone, and something small inside of her begins to burn brighter with each night that passes. She tries to ignore the voice that tells her it is hope; hope is a dangerous thing for people like them.

Tous Deux On est Repartis dans le Tourbillon de la Vie 1k by @melimelo-ao3

He couldn’t even begin to picture what she had endured, what she had lived through. Yet, hearing her pleading in the night, he would give anything to know, to be able to understand her, to soothe her. He had only ever wanted to soothe her.

Gifsets: Where Will We Go by c-sand, Brienne Reacts to Jonsa, New Dress by @jonstarks How Could We Know, Sansa Tries Ale, Where Will We Go, Sansa Making Jon's Cloak, I Made This for You by kitnjon

Traveling the North

Five Times They Touch 1k by @justchunkit

She doesn’t touch him for days. Weeks. They travel from keep to stronghold, living in close quarters as they’d never done even as children. She is so close, but an icy veneer has covered the exhausted girl he’d started to know, and they can hardly exchange a good morning without it evolving into an argument.

Some Love Stories Need a Little Help 2k @graceverse

Or how Tormund effectively makes Jon share a tent with Sansa

Unnatural 2k by @amymel86

Once he is close enough, she leaps at him, arms wrapping him up and his nose buried in her copper hair. The shuddering exhale he expels is the most amount of sound he’s made in days but all he can hear is Sansa’s sniffling and the way their two hearts talk to one another in beats of the same song.

Gifsets: Arguing, Eye Contact, Jon Reacting to Sansa by jonstarks Side by Side by @baelerion

Pre Battle of the Bastards

we may only have this night 2k by wearycities

She summoned an image of Jon in her mind. When he saw her, at Castle Black. His eyes, his face. His hands letting go of the railing, like it had burned him. She could not stop thinking about his hands. She had turned the memory over and over in her mind on countless sleepless nights, wondering what it meant. After her argument with Jon the night before the Battle of the Bastards, Sansa returned to his tent.

The Madness of Dead and Broken Things 1k by @estherruth-jonsatrash

The first time, Jon tells himself it’s the last time. Jon gives into his feelings for Sansa the night before the Battle of the Bastards, telling himself he'll die the next day. He isn't prepared for the after of survival.

the night before the fight ficlet by @sailorshadzter

jon & sansa spend a night together before the battle of the bastards. pre parental reveal hookup, read at your own risk. nsfw.

Before the Storm 1k

Snowflakes fell from the grey sky, covering the ground in white even more than it already was. Grey and white, Sansa thought to herself. The Stark colors.

A gaze across a field 1, 2 ficlets by fedonciadale

Sansa's thoughts as she contemplates the possible outcome of the battle.

Gifsets: Arguing, You Don't Have to Be Here, I'll protect You I Promise by jonstarks, Pre and During BotB by baelerion, Jon Pummeling Ramsay by kitnjon, Jon Pummeling Ramsay by c-sand

Post Battle of the Bastards

Bloodstains and Stitches Chapter 1 and 2 by @trollslanda

Two scenes set after Battle of the Bastards: 1. In the courtyard, Jons pov. Post-battle calmdown and fluff I guess but also there's dead bodies and stuff. I dunno. 2. Sansa cleaning his wounds and stitching him up, her pov. A pretty sweet scene where they get a moment to breathe.

A Little Friction ficlet by @justchunkit

“You don’t know anything about me.” “Because you won’t tell me anything!” After the Battle of the Bastards, Jon and Sansa try to get to know each other.

Of Justice and Ghosts 1k by @lurikko

He knows his sister is watching him carefully like they are the only two humans left in the world, as they in a way are, and that makes his every remaining piece crumble.

Ghosts that We Knew 7k @the-prophet-lemonade

In the wake of the Battle of the Bastards, and the proclamation of the North's fealty to the Starks once more, Jon and Sansa see the ghosts of their family all-around. Sometimes, it becomes difficult to separate the past from the present when so many that they love are dead. A series of vignettes based around "nostalgia", and Jon & Sansa compared to Ned & Catelyn and the rest of their family.

they say that we’re out of control and some say we’re sinners 14k

Doesn’t have enough time to reminisce on the past because she’s turned around, and he’s seen her face, and it’s her. Can’t be anyone but her even underneath all that smudged dirt on her pale cheeks. Would know the red of her hair anywhere, he thinks. Doesn’t linger on the why, and instead descends down the steps and towards her. She’s turned her body so she’s facing him now, her eyes tracking his every move, his doing the same. They’re so in sync it’s terrifying, really.

Five Kisses 1k by @ben-barnes-is-my-husband

The five kisses that Jon and Sansa have shared.

Undisclosed Desires 4k Nina36

“Why did you stop?” She asked. I was ashamed. He was yours. I was terrified that you saw who I am. He was yours to kill. It was what you needed.

bet you didn't know that i was dangerous 4k by @ladyalice101

“I mean that your brother took a woman to bed, and when he had his way with her, he said your name into her ear over and over again.” // In which Littlefinger tests for Jon's weaknesses, and discovers a secret.

Soiled 5k by @orangeflavoryawp

"'Talk to me, Sansa,' he pleads, voice wavering, and she shuts her eyes to the sound. Like a gale. Like a mountain coming down. This is how it empties from her. 'What do you want me to say?"' she bites out, voice quaking." - Jon and Sansa. The start of their descent.

Dark in Bloom 8k by orangeflavoryawp

"His gravity wavers, the axis of his world tilted to the measure of her lips." - Jon and Sansa. The stain of desire bleeds slowly between them.

Hallowed 5k by orangeflavoryawp

“’Tell me,’ he growls, more demand than he’s ever given her – crown or not – and the feeling is heady in its fervency. Sansa stares him down, mouth a harsh frown. She doesn’t resist his hold, doesn’t ease into it either. ‘He says your affections for me aren’t… brotherly.’” - Jon and Sansa. An encounter with Lord Baelish brings the truth of their desires to light.

but still you stumble, feet give way, outside the world seems a violent place 3k by @parkersedith

When she looks at him, she cannot see anyone other than Jon, especially with him wearing a simple breeches and tunic, divested of all ornaments, even Longclaw. She can only see Jon, not her bastard half-brother, not the King in the North, not the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch, not a wildling, but only Jon, the Jon who took Winterfell back with her, the Jon who fought their battle, the Jon who has been there, at her side, ever since she found him again. or; instead of roaming winterfell when she cannot sleep, sansa goes to jon, and to jon's bed. it's not quite as illicit as it sounds, and gives them a chance to finally, truly, talk

In the quiet of the night 4k by @dreams-for-spring

It becomes a habit; each night she unlatches her chamber door, and each night Jon enters just as bashfully as before. Some nights he brings terrible sour wine, and others bitter ale for them to share as they sit around the hearth speaking of everything that has happened–everything except what has passed between him and his black brothers. She knows that is a topic he is not ready to share. Still, she does not find sleep when he leaves, but at least for those brief hours she is not alone, and something small inside of her begins to burn brighter with each night that passes. She tries to ignore the voice that tells her it is hope; hope is a dangerous thing for people like them.

love is more than telling me you want it 2k

When he smiles at her, she feels warmth flooding back into her bones. She’d almost forgotten what it feels like, she’s been cold for so long. Sansa and Jon learn to be something other than ships passing in the night.

Gifsets: Jon Looking at Sansa by jonstarks, Sansa Looking at Jon by baelerion, Forehead Kiss by joanna-lannister, Winter Is Here by kitnjon, Forehead Kiss by c-sand

PRE CANON - WESTERN - FAIRYTALES - REGENCY - LITTLE WOMEN - HOLIDAY - next week -> ANNE OF GREEN GABLES

[atopvisenyashill]

why do you think jonsa is happening tho? jonerys is different bc they are going to be enemies, but i don’t see what jonsa does for the story

so let me first lay out roughly what i think is going to happen should jonsa become canon. I personally love going down meta and graphic spirals, so I'm including links to other people’s theories/explanations/graphics of events too - also I would like to shout out @istumpysk because half these metas and gifsets were stuff I found on their blog initially, and also was the one who really convinced me that jonsa is less of a crackship and more of a contender for an actual canon theory, and from there i really found my niche in this fandom. specifically this meta about jon being the mummer's dragon is what pulled me out of my "we're never getting twow and if we do it's just gonna be that stupid dany has jon's magical baby while tyrion watches, then they all die theory" slump and lit my brain on fire again. let's goooo:

The Ashford Tourney Theory - Something Shady goes down at the tourney Petyr has planned that requires Sansa to make a quick getaway, and likely causes her to run into Brienne while fleeing. This theory for me is about hinting at Sansa's romantic future, allies, and how she's getting the hell out of the Vale: both the dark haired, Not Targ Looking Targ Prince that is the son of A Great Prince That Never Was being her romantic endgame but also it's about Brienne (/Dunk) getting her the hell out of there and becoming Sansa's number one ally and protector (with Sansa's number two being Bronze Yohn!! But he's not fleeing with her - if he helps her get out of the Vale, it'll be to cause a distraction or a fight so Sansa can slip away unnoticed. Bronze Yohn is coming with the knights of the Vale later to help defend his girl!).

The Girl In Grey - Out of options on where to go, Sansa & Brienne makes a long, fast, and dangerous trek to the only family she knows is still alive: Jon Snow at the Wall. No, I don't think Alys Karstark is the girl in grey on a dying horse; I think she's a red herring, the same as the scene where Sweetrobin destroys the snow castle, and that the real girl in grey (who slays the savage giant) is Sansa. Melisandre says that she sees "Jon's sister" but doesn't specify more than that, or how she knows it's Jon's sister, even - why would she assume Alys is Jon's sister and not some random Northern girl? Why was she so sure that it was his sister? It's because Alys isn't the girl in grey, it's Sansa, her horse dying because she's traveled halfway across the continent with Brienne and Pod, desperately trying to keep ahead of the dozens of people hunting her down.

The Blood of Winterfell - Sansa and Jon will reclaim winterfell together. This one is similar to above; just like Alys was a red herring, the scene where Sansa rebuilds the castle has a lot of foreshadowing (imo) but that isn't the moment in the prophecy Arya hears. The Savage Giant is Littlefinger, the castle of snow is Winterfell, and Sansa is going to liberate her home alongside Jon and what's left of the Northern lords.

Stone and Snow Remains - THIS is where Sansa and Jon will fall in love while fighting for the North. This is also the part where you lose a lot of people, because they think the evidence is real weak sauce but like, I also think the Jonerys "evidence" is weak af too (and no wonder, we have at minimum 2k pages left to get through!!). There's several believed foreshadowing points to this one, bare with me for this weird ass formatting because I can't do sub bullet points on tumblr:

1. Sansa's linking of snow with love and affection - "drifting snowflakes brushed her face as light as lover’s kisses, and melted on her cheeks...She could feel the snow on her lashes, taste it on her lips. It was the taste of Winterfell. The taste of innocence. The taste of dreams." along with her snow maiden and snow knight.

2. Bael the Bard and the Rose of Winterfell - the chapter where Sansa gets her period for the first time, Cersei refers to it as “flowering” a dozen times, linking being a maiden (a young girl, not quite of age or just barely of age) to flowers and several people refer to sex as ~plucking. Also notice the one who stole her from KL is Lord BAELish.

3. Aemon the Dragonknight & Queen Naerys - Sansa compares herself to Naerys, Joffrey to Aegon, and wishes for an Aemon, among the many similarities between her life and Naerys'. Jon not only calls himself Aemon, he has a deep connection with a different Aemon Targaryen. And if you’re thinking “Sansa isn’t Naerys, X is Naerys” I would remind you that Sansa as a character existed first, George purposefully had her compare herself to Naerys, and parallels don't belong to just one character.

4. Jenny of Oldstones and The Prince of Dragonflies - there's honestly a lot of parallels between them but like the Aemon/Naerys parallel, the Jenny/Duncan one stands out to me.

5. Janos Slynt - I mean. Iconic. This was the scene that made me first think about what their relationship could be in the future and there’s a reason Jonsas fixate on it. It’s about Sansa being desperate for a hero and the hero she dreamed about being Jon the whole time. 6. Societal Alienation - There's the bastard parallels here, the "it would be so sweet to see him again", the "Winterfell belongs to my sister, Sansa." It's about how Jon, through circumstances of his birth, finds himself alienated from the rest of society and reconnects with his prim and proper sister Sansa, who finds herself alienated from the rest of society as well but for vastly different reasons.

Robb’s Will - Howland is going to show up in the North, along with Maege and Galbert, with some WILD news about why Jon can’t rule Winterfell. There’s a lot of contention around this. Bran probably shows up around this time too, and Arya gets to the Riverlands to discover Lady Stoneheart and give her the gift of mercy. This is where all the inheritance stuff is going to happen and I have no idea how it's going to go down besides it's going to be messy as all fuck.

The Pact Of Ice And Fire - Jon & Sansa get secret married bc they’re in love, not siblings, & jon is the only man she trusts not to steal her claim. This isn't the only possible foreshadowing instance of a marriage either - some believe the Sandor/Sansa scene during the Battle of the Blackwater is foreshadowing as well (personally I feel that's a bit of a stretch but I wanted to include it anyway).

Jon As An Envoy - I talked about this in my "what's Jon's ending" a little but I believe Jon will act as an envoy for either Sansa or Bran to Aegon VI, essentially playing out a similar story that he does in the show with Daenerys. By which I mean, Jon is not the King because the ruler themselves do not go as an envoy, that’s stupid and dangerous, but he goes as an ambassador for Sansa or Bran, to treat with a new claimant to the Iron Throne that is gaining support - Aegon VI & Jon Connington. They will probably clash, Jon will probably have yet another identity crisis, there had BETTER be gay incest subtext, then Aegon dies, and Jon has his sixth quarter life crisis in a row.

“King” of the Gift - again, something I touched on in my Jon meta is that I think he’s going to have a hand in resettling the Gift. Personally, I think it's likely that Jon leaves to protect the claims of his siblings (see: Duncan and Jenny) and goes to the Gift to help resettle it to keep out of the way. This ending is typically referred to as the "bael the bard" ending but i like to think of it as the "brandon's gift" ending instead - though he is not physically with his family, Jon feels fulfilled having confirmed his family loves him through reclaiming Winterfell and marrying Sansa, being reunited with Arya, and being given the Gift by Bran. Sansa claims her children were fathered by a wolf.

So…what does all this do for the story?

Well, in my opinion, several things.

I think the main barrier here is that most people in the greater fandom describe Sansa's story as ~growing past childish wants~ and Jon's as ~rejecting love~ and I do not agree with either of those takes even a little bit. This is where (imo) the dividing line between Jonsas and the rest of the fandom is. I don’t think the answer to Sansa’s question “will anyone ever marry me for love” is going to be “nah" - that's not just a sad story to me (wanting to be married isn't childish! craving intimacy and understanding isn't childish! it's also not wrong for a child to be childish!), I think the idea that Sansa (or Jon) will not find another love just doesn't line up with how George approaches his story. Who Sansa's husband will be has been such a big question, and her story is so heavy into the more romantic tropes like courtly love and chivalry and the line between politics and love and identity, that the question of Sansa's hand in marriage will be plot relevant. I also think it's kinda naive of people to pretend like George isn't very interested in the sexual dynamics of the characters he writes about (yeah, sure, no woman needs a man but "needing a man" is not what this is about. look at everything this man wrote in F&B and tell me he is going to write a female character that longs for sex and desire and doesn't get it!).

After AGOT, nearly every time Sansa thinks about marriage involves her longing for love but believing she will never get it because a man will only ever love her for her claim. Giving her a man - like Jon - who not only will not steal her claim and in fact has defended it twice over already, who will love her for who she is and not what she can give him, is a really important aspect of her story in my opinion.

As for Jon, I am even more firmly against the opinion that his story is about rejecting love; Jon’s story is about wanting to be a good man, to measure up to his father ~despite~ his bastard blood. When Aemon asks if Ned would choose honor over love and Jon stubbornly says yes, Jon is wrong and it’s important to not forget that. Ned has never once in his entire life chosen honor over love; he chooses his daughter’s life over his honor, he chooses his sister & her son’s life over honor, he chooses Arya & Nymeria over honor, and on and on!!! Ned chooses love at almost turn but none of his children know that just yet - look at Robb choosing Jeyne’s honor over his own and how upset he is at the idea that Ned would be disappointed despite the fact that Ned would have understand Robb’s decision! Jon's whole arc is tied up in realizing that it is not wrong or dirty to feel and choose love, passion, and desire and if he never has another romantic arc again, I think you lose the second part of that lesson which is "you are responsible for how you act when you feel love but that doesn't mean that simply choosing love makes you a bad person."

There's also the fact that George has talked a lot about "who lives, who dies, who gets married" and yet we have not one marriage at the end of the show AND there's not a lot of guesses at what "who gets married" means besides Jon/erys (and even if Jonsa doesn't happen, I simply do not see Jon/erys happening. they are not similar enough, they will not be in the same space for long enough, and they are on wildlly different trajectories for their story, they are not getting married let alone having sex). I think Jonsa fits that bill very well.

These various theories - from Sansa being queen, Jon living in exile, The Ashford Tourney Theory, the secret marriage, every one of them - are ideas and themes that I have really been thinking about for about 12 years now. I think Jon and Sansa's relationship could fit with the themes in their stories, the overarching themes in the books, and my own personal opinions. I think it gives George a great opportunity to delve into the courtly love aspects he enjoys so much, as well as delve into inheritance, legacy, legitimacy, honor, incest (yes, that too), and above all, what George himself has said the whole series is about - love. The human heart in conflict with itself is what I think Jon and Sansa as a romantic couple does for the series.

[akarena]

Could someone turn this badly too fast-paced movie into jonsa AU?

Cause as soon as I saw these two, I was immediately transferred.

The movie was really aesthetically pleasing, but it needed more screentime (a TV show) for its plot to naturally flourish and develop slowly.

I could even do some GIFs as a bribe

Movie name: The Tearsmith

Plot:

Basically adopted from an orphanage as siblings, but they got more feelings for each other.