#like Waymar Royce and the ashford tourney

[babybells123]

There is something so beautifully anvilicious about these quotes;

" I am a bastard too now, just like him. Oh, it would be so sweet, to see him once again. But of course that could never be. Alayne Stone had no brothers, baseborn or otherwise." (AFFC, Alayne II)

"The dream was sweet . . . but Winterfell would never be his to show. It belonged to his brother, the King in the North. He was a Snow, not a Stark. Bastard, oathbreaker, and turncloak . . ." (ASOS, Jon V)

Both Jon and Sansa are yearning for Winterfell and the feelings/memories/family associated -but both are intrinsically restricting themselves based off of their bastard status. The notion of Sansa being the only Stark (and character) to transition from a high-born noble lady to a baseborn bastard cannot be overlooked. (And then of course, the notion of Jon being the only Stark (and character) to transition from baseborn bastard to lord commander, cannot be overlooked.) Jon has risen to the top whilst Sansa has lowered to the bottom.

She (GRRM) makes the comparison to Jon herself, meaning that GRRM makes the comparison himself. this isn't something interpreted by fans - it is right there, explicitly within the text.

Sansa's desire to reunite with Jon is "sweet," it'd be almost like a dream come true. Jon's "dream was sweet" as well. But "Winterfell could never be his" and seeing her brother once again "of course, could never be" (possible).

And then later on in the text, Jon is offered the chance to become Jon Stark, and have Winterfell in name. Thus his decidedly unsubtle desire (that he dismisses as an entirely impossible dream) is fulfilled by Stannis' offer, even though he eventually rejects it in truth "Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa."

There is also the quote that precedes Jon's "sweet dream," where he fantasises about a beautiful little romance with Ygritte; showing her a flower from the glass gardens, feasting her in the great hall, bathing in the hot pools, and loving beneath the heart tree. This dream is directly connected to Winterfell and is obviously sexually + romantically charged.

So whilst Jon's desire is partially fulfilled (even if he doesn't accept it) can we possibly assume that Sansa's simultaneously unsubtle "that could never be" may also be fulfilled? Since GRRM seems to really be beating us over the head with how 'that could never happen' from Sansa's internal monologue "no one will ever marry me for love" is reiterated multiple times (just you wait sweet one!) and Sansa desiring to reunite with her brother who she has modelled her bastardry after, who is supposedly the only brother left to her, is immediately dismissed by Sansa because she's accepted the fact that she'll never be with her family again, (and that she shall never encounter true love).

The connections only keep connecting!

So to summarise:

Jon & Sansa both have "sweet" dreams/desires that connect to Winterfell/family.

Jon's dream is sexually/romantically charged, involves a red-headed girl, and establishes Jon's suppressed desires as actually romantic.

Both Jon and Sansa are bastards in these contexts.

Both Jon and Sansa woefully dismiss these dreams/desires as impossible as "that could never be" and "it could never be his to show."

Jon's desire however is later offered on a silver platter by Stannis Baratheon, to which he mulls over and states that he "has always wanted it" (to be his). Though he later refuses Stannis' offer on the basis that "Winterfell belongs to Sansa" - twice over he says this.

Jon 'giving' Winterfell to Sansa is in direct contrast to Robb (Sansa's image of an honourably idealistic older brother) flat out rejecting Sansa's claim on the basis of her marriage to Tyrion.

Jon thus establishes himself as the only character who respects and protects Sansa's claim. Who does not abuse or exploit it. (Even though he was given the opportunity for it and it's been his innermost desire since childhood.)

In a way, this further conveys Jon as Sansa's unspoken, subconscious hero who is protecting her interests and instilling all those heroic ideals (such as the Janos Slynt situation) - though she does not realise it and has accepted that "there are no heroes" at all. But Jon is the true hero, hiding in plain sight.

So, whilst Sansa believes there are no heroes, Jon fulfils those ideals. Whilst Sansa believes no one will marry her for love, Jon exists as the embodiment of all the chivalric, romantic ideals that she's so desperately wanted.

Can we now assume that Sansa believing that she will essentially never see Jon again as entirely anvilicious as she will in fact see Jon again?

GEORGE I'M IN YOUR WALLS.

[agentrouka-blog]

How does ashford theory account for “I was going to marry her to Robert!”? There is no Arryn suitor, and Robert has been mentioned more than once as a possible match for Sansa. In my opinion, that’s one of the most avid holes in the theory.

The fourth pavilion was sewn together from diamond-shaped pieces of cloth, alternating red and white. Dunk did not know the colors, but Egg said they belonged to a knight from the Vale of Arryn named Ser Humfrey Hardyng. "He won a great melee at Maidenpool last year, ser, and overthrew Ser Donnel [Darklyn?] of Duskendale and the Lords Arryn and Royce in the lists."

I think out of the two Vale "suitors", GRRM picked the one whose role is far more significant. The betrothal to Sweetrobin is mentioned as an option but is never plot-relevant, unlike the others. (Joffrey, Willas, Tyrion, Harry - they all drive the plot forward as matches to Sansa.) Honestly, I think that GRRM mostly put it in for the "how would you like to marry your cousin" line. The betrothal serves no political purpose that benefits Lysa at that point in time and is dropped with no repercussions.

GRRM gives a small mention to Arryn and Royce (Waymar being emphasized as Sansa's past crush in AFFC) in Hardyng's backstory, which could be interpreted as a nod in that direction.

Far more significant than leaving out the Arryn suitor is the inclusion of the Hardyng suitor. Because, literally, the name appears in no. other. context. but at this tourney and being one of Sansa's suitors. It's what drives home the significance of the other names in the first place. That's what makes the black-clad, dark-haired Targaryen such an interesting addition in that circle. What is the "black prince with the white guardian" doing in that company?

It's too much to be a coincidence, so what's the point of niggling at the ultimately insignificant details? It's an easter egg of a hint. Not an air-tight legal argument meant to hold up in court.

[alaynestcnes]

A popular asoiaf tiktoker recently posted a video about the Ashford Tourney and stated that Jonsa is very possible as an endgame 😳😳 I’m legitimately shocked since apart from Alt Shift X and Adam Feldman, no other BNFs have endorsed /entertained Jonsa as an a legitimate possibility … I think people are lowkey starting to warm up to it?? I even saw another video last week which garnered a lot of likes about Sansa falling in love with Waymar Royce who resembles Jon and there were only like two antis in the comments …. I used to pray for times like this lmaooo 😭

mfw that vid came on my fyp and not only was it treated favourably but the comments were also largely positive

[an-oranophobic-maniac]

Stealing from other fandom's metas is one of the reasons why Jonsas are called out by the Asoiaf fandom .

I Disagree with this! And before I get into why, let me be clear about one thing. We Jonsas dont give shit about who the great ASOIAF fandom calls out. The same fandom who couldn't even predict atleast half of what Jonsas did correctly, have no right to call out on any1 especially us( but honey we all know deep down that you all hate us because most of us predict bad endings for fan favourites like Dany and Tyrion and think that Arya won't be Queen or rule any1 else's castle in the upcoming books)

And moving on to your ask, these are the major Jonsa theories that I know of

1) Last time I read it was a Sansa Stark who married the Jonnel Stark in the old family tree not Danaerys stark? So no stealing there.

2) Jon chopping of Janos slynts head, just like Sansa had wished a "hero" would do. Or was that Arya who did?

3) Sansa's First crush being a carbon copy of Jon. As far as I know, Waymar Royce was not mentioned by any1 else like that. Or may be Tyrion could have had a crush on him on Tyrion -0 in AGOT

4) Jon having a hard on when Ygritte sings or the way her RED hair shines in the firelight. Are you gonna argue that her hair color was brown?

5) Chett comparing snowfall with Jon snow in the prologue of ASOS and Sansa comparing snowfall with Lover's kiss in the Epilogue. Where is the stealing here?

6) Sansa worrying over how no one would marry her love but only her claim when Jon snow is being shown the only person to reject winterfell citing Sansa's claim. Or did he mention Arya stark thr?

7) "Glory to your betrothed, he is the dragon's heir" this was said to Sansa not doritto

8) Ashford Tourney.... Do u even want me to start with this?

9) Girl in the Grey meta is also exclusively based on Sansa only. Or are you going to say that we stole that from Arya too? The girl who is not even in the continent.

10) Sansa's Lady---> Bastard journey and Jon's Bastard---> Lord journey. No one mentions anything about ice and fire here.

So honey tell me there is only one story and very limited chapters. There could be some mixed interpretations from different fandoms, people can be biased and be mistaken too.

But if there is one thing I can say it is this. We DONT need to steal from any1, our ship is already brimmed with lot of goodies unlike others.

SO SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[hilarychuff]

honestly i know there are lots of book jonsa metas and analyses etc and people have made much more compelling points than i ever could and the ashford tourney is what originally made me go “oh word?????” but at this point in my life nothing is more convincing than that sansa randomly mentions having a crush on waymar royce four books in like that is so funny bro