#no I dont not hate rhaenyra/the blacks

[dirtytransmasc]

mild rant, cause hotd TikTok is insufferable.

so I saw an edit, with the scene of Viserys on his death bed, calling Rhaenyra his only child...

these were some of the comments...

how dense do people have to be to say this shit, as if the abuse/neglect Aegon, Helaena, Aemond (and Dearon) faced, is the reason they are the way that they are????

aegon turned to his cups so young because he had to face the fact that his father didn't love him, his mother had... complicated feelings towards him (he was her first, born of marital rape that destroyed her life and childhood, and she loved him no doubt, but part of her hated what he represented in her life. all of which is Viserys and Otto's fault). not to mention the abuse he faced from Viserys and Otto (focus on Otto, cause he did what he wanted, since Viserys wasn't around enough to thoroughly abuse his son himself and wouldn't punish Otto for doing so). his drinking and need to self destruct to escape a life he doesn't want, turned him into the destructive, drunken bastard he is.

aemond was permanently maimed, an injury that very well could have killed him or hindered him greatly in life, and was ignored by his father, who then supported such an obvious lie instead of protecting his own son (aka, treating the greens and the blacks as equals and not playing favorites, they're aren't asking for miracles they asking for bare minimum). he suffered so greatly and his father couldn't give less of a shit. so on top of everything else, he had this anger boiling in his chest for years and years, stoked by his father's willing negligence. not to mention the fear it cause his mother (who was being manipulated by Otto) that Rhaenyra truly was a threat to his livelihood, which only targeted his anger.

Helaena, on a direct/surface level, was the best off, in terms of her father, but the ripple effect he caused on her life and those around her caused her to be married to her brother, who she didn't love, who didn't live her, and brought her suffering to some degree. it was the war Viserys practically created (tell me he didn't, I dare you) that sent her to madness (amongst other things *ahem* blood and cheese).

like, this man destroyed his children, directly or not, everything he did broke them down and apart, until he died, leaving them with a war that would end them all. his actions made them (Aegon and Aemond) into the people they were, but of course, that doesn't matter, apparently.

[the-witch-of-woods-beyond]

hate how team green stans jump through hoops to justify alicent’s wrongdoings but then end up backing themselves into a corner.

they want her to be this poor little victim forever stuck at fifteen and ignore the fact that she put her daughter through the exact same thing when she was even younger. but then they also try and say that she was ruling the kingdom for decades while viserys was ill and was the best monarch, and ignore the fact that she was just attacking the heir constantly and used her standing to enforce the laws that were already there. she expected everyone else to suffer and accept their place because she believed herself better than those around her for laying down and accepting her suffering and she attacked those who wanted to benefit themselves and others in a system set against them - rhaenyra fighting for her rightful place as heir despite being a woman. she also silenced others with pain - dyana, the serving girl who was assaulted by aegon (and this was not just a one-of occasion cause the maids were literally shown to be scared of aegon and he is canonically a vile person.)

[karinonsan]

Nyra doodle because the spoilers in twt are giving me live juice and anxiety at the same time. Also, I was trying out new app

[the-daily-dreamer]

Well well well… GRRM confirmed team 💚? ✔️✅✔️✅

GRRM SAID HELAENA THE BELOVED & RHAENYRA THE REVILED

I DONT WANT TO HEAR ANYMORE MAESTER THEORY. GRRM HIMSELF CONFIRMED RHAENYRA WAS HATED AND ITS NOT HISTORY WRITTEN BY THE WINNERS OR BY ANTI-TARG MAESTERS.

GRRM wrote this story to show that both sides were capable of evil and corruption, both sides had innocents who paid the price, and BOTH sides had a reason to fight. The reduction and changes by the writers to preserve the image of team black has even disappointed the creator of this universe! Because important character traits and plot lines have been destroyed and lost their impact and for what?

To push a “feminist” narrative of a toothless heroine in Rhaenyra. As opposed to a real story about the cost of power and war.

[knightsickness]

Alicent’s arc this season sucked sooo badddd

i think that part of the issue with it is that theyre trying to make alicent less hated by the general fandom. in the process gutting her existing characterisation and catering to rhaenyra/team black fans by having alicent want her kids dead if it more effectively worships rhaenyra and aligns her with team black because ‘being team black’ is the most important possible moral marker that shes supposed to be a good person. but it doesnt and will never work bc the people theyre catering to are the kind of diehards who will never not consider her a whiny homewrecking slut bitch whore etc and theyve removed all her existing motivations to try to endear her to them meaning people who like s1 alicent and team green are also now cold on her. just a wildly misled choice why is the apparent target audience for alicents arc people who call her alicunt. dont worry though its feminist we were girls together hashtag yuriii

[dirtytransmasc]

Are yyou team green or black? And why?

team green, though I'm not in support of every green character (namely Otto though my opinion of him is complicated. I also have opinions on Aegon and his characterization that makes it even more complicated)

[I have only read bits and pieces of the book, so my opinion is based almost solely on the show. keep this in mind]

I'm team green for 3 big reasons. they're more complex, thought not perfect by any means, more morally "right", and are simply more my vibe when it comes to characters. now this is very simplified and not at all nuanced, so stick with me for a minute.

Firstly, they're more complex. the greens have very deep, detailed, and nuanced lives and stories that lead to them being very complex characters that can't be put into a box. Alicent was a child bride who had lost her mother young became a mother young and suffered at the hands of power and men all her life. her children were affected by this and the world they were forced to grow up in throughout their lives. even individually her kids are drastically different; aegon the child who was forced into a life he did not want and suffered due to his father neglect and mother pain. Helaena who was never understood and grew up treated like an oddity. Aemond who was never seen to his full potential, always ignored or looked over, angry throughout his life. each of them has strengths and weaknesses, flaws and benefits, they're imperfect but never completely horrid. they're also never simplified (not entirely, even when the plot and writers seek to simplify them) to the point that they put on a moral pedestal or made straight evil (i'd even argue that the attempts of the writer to oversimplify them as evil and in the wrong makes them 10x more fascinating). I find TB characters tended to miss the mark on that, always put in the moral light, not even allowed a moment to reflect on their actions, lives, or positions in any nuanced or meaningful way, so they always just feel dull. they're also out on a moral highground that they can never be budged from, which makes them harder to like and honestly, really boring. they get away with everything instead of being emotionally and morally nuanced.

secondly, they're more morally "right". I will never say that any of the greens are perfect, they are far from it (with the exception of Helaena and her kids, who have done literally nothing to anyone, but I digress). what I will say, 9/10 times there is some level of reasoning that has some level of reasoning. Alicent always tries to do whats best for everyone, all throughout the series she tried to do best by the court, the king, her children, the realm, and Rhaenyra. did she always succeed? no, but she always tried and her mistakes were almost always honest. I will say she held resentment towards Rhaenya, but honestly, I can't blame her. Rhaenyra's lies and behavior hurt Alicent over and over again so for her to be angry is expected.when it came to succession, Alicent backed Rhaenyra until it was made clear she and Daemon would be a threat to her children's lives and even than she held mercy for Rhaenyra. Aegon's drinking can be blamed on the abuse and neglect he suffered at Viserys, Otto, and Alicent's (though the abuse and neglect from his mother is insanely different and nuanced. she perpetuated her pain onto him because she couldn't heal herself. so I hesitate to call it abuse, cause its so much more complicated than that) hands. though nothing will justify his rape of Dyana, I personally think it was a bad add in on the writers part, and leave it at that. Aemonds rage after years of being ignored doesn't entirely justify what he did to luke, but he had reason for his cruelty after years of Luke (and jace tbh) being cruel just because they could. TB characters tend to do terrible things in response to either A. nothing B. their own terrible things. Daemon kills who he wants when he feels like it, even for stating facts. Rhaneyra will lie and hurt those around her to protect her bastard children. both of them conspire to protect themselves and allow themselves to be wed, really just cause. while there are times they have their reasons, its a lot less of the time, and typically the backing to their actions, is they were trying to unbury themselves from within their own graves. (to preface, I don't care about rhaenyra sleeping around, it doesn't bother me, but its the fact that she will hurt everyone around her to protect her lies, allowing a child to be maimed and people to be murdered)

thirdly, they're my vibe. I like morally complex character, who are, to be frank, pathetic. I like characters with complex trauma's and issues, who aren't perfect people but its not entirely their fault. I would much rather watch a whole show about alicent, a child bride who tries so hard to be a good wife, queen, and mother while not prepared for any such role. Aegon who is a boy with severe mommy and daddy issues, a drinking problem, a flawed past, and constantly wet eyes. Helaena an ignored girl who has suffered for no better reason then her family. and Aemond, a boy who was tormented, bullied, maimed, and made stronger by it at the cost of his compassion and emotional stability - over a nepo baby who was coddled by her father, her murderous husband with a knack for unneeded violence, and her similarly coddled children (the show boiled them down to this, in my opinion). one is simply more up my alley than the other. I want character that need to be dissected, who have suffered, who hurt me to look at.

also, team black created almost all of their own problems. seeing as the main source of contention had to do with Rhaenyra's kids being bastards, which was Rhaenyra's problem, which she caused, and kept digging and digging that grave (faking Laenors death just so she could marry daemon, turning the blame on aemond when luke maimed him furthering the divide amongst the house, trying to wed Helaena to Jace putting her in danger, trying to take the driftmark throne and killing Vaemond for a claim her sons did not have, etc,) till viserys's death, earns her a lot less pity from me. at the end of the day, her being a woman was only a needle in a haystack worth of problems she caused herself that hurt her claim. if she had just strived to create to connection with ancient and her kids, and didn't make herself look like a threat to everyone who lessened her claim (which alicents kids would be the first people to be taken out) alicent would have backed like she had all season and there would have been no war, maybe conflict, but no war.

theres also the effect of the fans on my opinion. I have faced more cruelty, terrible media analysis, and outright ableism/misogny/(blood and sexual based) purist ideology/etc. from the TB fans then I have ever witness by TG fans. TB fans have ruined almost all of the TB characters for me in more ways than I can count, so I will say I am very biased.

thats why I'm team green. as a whole they are simply more appealing, their stories are more interesting, demand more attention to detail and emotional understanding, and from my point of view were the "right" side to be on in the war (the war was wrong on both sides, but my chips lie in the favour of the greens).

[bl00dlight]

EPISODE 8 - THOUGHTS

I dont think this was Ryan's intention but by attempting to make Aemond seem more deranged and 'humanise' everyone else, the show has accidentally made Aemond seem the most rational on team Green LMAO. Like? Yea no like, this episode - no baby g I get you. What the fuck is going on?

Also likeeee why is he the only one making sense? Like no I think he actually was kinda justified in being really upset - obviously not to the degree of.... well uhhh.... mass murder... BUT in terms of being fed up with Alicent. No he is totally right. Alicent was the one who incited this war, she indoctrinated him and Aegon from birth to fight it, to go against Rhaenyra... and now that he is basically going up against like seven other dragons, he has NO choice but ask Helaena to fight because??? What else is he going to do? Sit around and die? And Alicent is just lowkey like "oh well there is another way" and it's like well... no the fuck there isn't girl. And you know what? Even though I get why Helaena refuses, Aemond DOES also have a point that - from his perspective, she has to take action as Queen and show a united front. He is basically fighting the war alone. So like? Girl I'd be mad as hell too if my sister had a big ass dragon and she refused to help. He definitely could have gone about it a different way, like uh... not assaulting her. But in principle he was fully justified in asking her. I mean look if it were me I'd be ready to SUIT UP AND SAY SIR YES SIR. but I'm a slut for the man so....

I think accidentally the show has become less tragic now that they continue to centre the show as Rhaenyra and Alicent's story over Rhaenyra and her siblings. I don't really want to see Alicent remorseful yet because... that's going to take away from her story overall and her arc when the dance is finally done? It was tragic in the books when Alicent's final wish was to be able to see her sons and daughter again. Like... I just... I mean okay hbo.

Criston Cole ate this episode. I loved his speech, I thought that whole scene was perfect. And honestly? Yes slay, finally he is cooking because I wanna die too rn King.

Helaena... I'm not sure what the fuck is going on with her and Daemon? I avoided those leaks and yea... that was weird as hell. Like even his face was like? What the fuck are YOU doing here? We've really spent no time developing her powers at all... and it's irritating to me. Because why would she be connected to the weirwood? Is this purely for the fact that she'll haunt Aemond once he gets to Harrenhal? Or.... was that just something fun to throw in there?

The CGI on the white walkers was.... I mean... clearly all the budget been going to the Velaryons wigs cause they have been EATING it up.

Speaking of that I love Rhaena so fucking much. She's become my new favourite on the Blacks. However not showing her claiming sheepstealer is a criminal offence.

Jace was eating again. He spoke nothing but facts and I get why he is mad too.

Ulf is fucking annoying.

Daenerys has always BEEN that bitch and will always be that bitch. So clock that.

Alys is??? Again... helping the Blacks? So... what does that mean for her relationship with Aemond? I guess... well, I guess I can only assume she'll be working to lead him to his doom, right?

Rhaenyra slayed a little but I hate this cult leader thing. It's so weird, I want my rage filled mother who mourns her son.

Aegon... I miss him for some fucking reason. But weird mention of his dick being chopped off.

Still no sign of Maelor.

Daeron yea yea I know everyone is quaking but it doesn't really matter since? I mean... this is unpopular opinion - but I'd rather he be cut then bring him in and have him be super irrelevant and take up precious screentime.

The pirate shit was fun, but three whole scenes? Again? THREE ENTIRE SCENES... when we still need to wrap up major plot points? Couldn't that have been achieved in two scenes?

Allyn ate Coryls up and I'm glad about it. That's what you get for being a deadbeat dad and cheating on your wife.

Love Addam, whom also ate Ulf up. I absolutely am pro Addam atm.

Baela being useless again.... which disappoints me... but at least she got another scene with Jace, instead of giving her an arc that explores the complexities of her relationship with Daemon.

And well...... Simon? His ass is cute and quaint.

Anyway, a part of me is lowkey excited to see Aemond fuck shit up. I honestly. I know I talk about what a shit bitch he is but, girl I LOVE HIM. Like LMAOOOO his ass so crazy and mad and as the youngest sibling myself, I lowkey get why he is so fucked off with his useless ass family. I don't blame him at this point because if my mother did that shit to me after priming me for 18 to go to war and now she is basically like 'oh no I'd rather go skip in the fields' girl.... it would be on sight.

That being said this was a solid episode with some beautiful moments. And as always 99% of the actors were incredible, the score and the cinematography was unbelievable. And if this were episode 8 out of 10 I would be UNBELIEVABLY excited. But because it's the finale... I feel a tad underwhelmed.

I am going to go back and rewatch this season to check in and see how it flows. But yea, it is missing that magic season 1 had. I'm not sure what it is.

[priceforrottenjudgement]

Ive seen a lot of bitching about hotd in the tag, which surprised me bc there was none of this two weeks ago and now all these ppl are acting like season 2 sucks and its badly written and its rewriting the books and bla bla. This surprised me, so i did a little snooping

Like. First off, isnt grrm consulting them this time? I know he was doing it for s1 and im sure i read he was doing s2 too. I cant say anything about bad writing, tbh i havent examined it that closely bc nothing about pacing or dialogue has bothered me enough to spend time thinking about it.

The "its not like the book!!!" Thing really bothers me though bc have you read the book? Lmao im not so sure bc some of the stuff you complain about is so weird, also how did you miss that fire & blood has deeply unreliable narrators? It literally says gyldayn is an unreliable narrator on the Wikipedia, hes taking a bunch of biased sources and kind of patches the history of house targaryen together. If you had read the book, youd KNOW that it isnt a definitive chronicle and stuff was likely altered, embellished and left out. Some of the alterations make sense, because why would some maester know about these ppls private lives. Fire and blood is full of propaganda, rumours and bias. Also the stuff that WAS changed isnt really that deep? I really like the change to the rhaenicent dynamic (ill come back to this, theres a reason ppl seem to hate this change lmao), i dont care about maelor and the nettes changes dont bother me that much? (Some ppl are convinced rhaena will get the ENTIRE nettles storyline. Which would indeed suck cough cough, but i dont think thats where theyre going at all lmao)

So i took a look at some of the other opinions of ppl who really really HATE s2 and, WOOOOOOWWWWW,there sure is a lot of homophobia on the yuri Website huh? All of a sudden it makes sense why these ppl popped up 2 weeks ago huh? (And why theyre so bitchy about the changes to alicents character not being a wicked stepmother but more of an... almost lover) Wow, what a fucking pathetic reason to be a hater. Awww nooooooooo this female character is kissing women noooo, theyre ruined!! Even though the relationship was kind of maybe sort of a little implied in the book. (Granted the book talks about a close relationship between rhaenyra, mysaria and DAMON, but see above for rumours and inaccuracies) Also there are a lot of ppl who were genuinely Team green (i did not realise those ppl existed unironically, gonna be honest) who are mad that Team green is portrayed more negatively than Team black and apparently thats unfair. Yeah, idk what to say about that, do you always expect to opposing sides of a fictional conflict to be treated the same and to be equally good and justified? Granted, the "pick a side" Marketing was dumb and encouraged this sort of thinking, but those two teams are not equal lol you can still like the characters even though theyre cheaters, usurpers and Bad ppl.

If you had genuinely read and UNDERSTOOD the books and that theyre full of propaganda you would understand why SOME PPL are either portrayed more positively or more negatively in the show than they were in the book. Just consider WHO was writing the history for one sec.

Yeah, rant over, this was just too ridiculous not to get off my chest.

Like yeah, you can criticise some of the changes and the simple fact that 8 ep seasons are SHIT for building a plot, but considering some ppl call an ep "filler" just because nobody got roasted by a dragon, maybe we dont deserve 20 ep seasons with a slow building of plot and tension anymore....

[patrocles]

the thing about the hotd fandom (at least on twt) is i’ve never in my life seen a group of people so committed to being absolutely miserable and hateful for absolutely no reason. it’s almost a little beyond needless discourse, but that the response to any sort of analysis or observation can be met with active discouragement and hatred for doing just that.

i was literally getting called the R slur and told to kill myself at the mere suggestion that baela and rhaena’s storyline (and the dragonstone dynamics as a whole) could have had way more depth than it got? and people got so mad at me for writing a thread on the dynamic between rhaenyra and jace, for suggesting that anything could be less that perfect between them..

and it’s just so mad to me bc regardless of any drama and discourse on asoiafblr, analysis and nit-picking think pieces are our strong suit and its actively encouraged to talk about the thing, expand upon the thing, pore over every detail of the thing.

so to have the series that has kept so much traction because of this type of fan-engagement be met with vitriol when those fans do that and not accept everything surface value and accept being spoonfed Rhaenyra is Good, the blacks are the Goods, you cant like anything else and if you do, you need to die, is INSANE to me. bc it rly reads like yall just dont want a good show. you truly enjoy being angry and pissy about everything.

like you’re always at risk of having someone jump in your shit and throw a temper tantrum in your mentions bc you said something positive about your fave… like it’s so fucking bleak.

anyways, today they’re mad bc someone said they hoped ramin would make a theme for helaena and i guess thats against the law or something

[greenqueenhightower]

I can understand why people like Rhaenyra. I can understand why Alicent isn't to everyone's taste. I still don't understand how she is so hated for behaving like a human considering the gaslighting and abuse she's been through, and how she has much less free agency than Rhaenyra. It was reading through the horrific and vitriolic extreme takes on Alicent that made me side with her. And something about Rhaenyra and her mean diehards just remind me so much of white feminism. I feel like it's no coincidence I see way more WoC tending to sympathize with Alicent, as a WoC myself. The gaslighting and watching someone else consistently get away with things you wouldn't while being trapped in a cage is all too relatable. The rules dont apply to Rhaenyra and Rhaenyra only. And seeing Rhaenyra being the only one in the narrative made to look extra sympathetic (like the double birth scenes, as if all births aren't horrific and like Alicent didn't give birth even younger too). I also hate how despite their efforts in diverse casting, black actors are just backdrops or tools to make Rhaenyra and TB look better and how they're disposable to move the plot forward for her. This matter has been brought up in the TG subreddit thank God I was not the only one who saw that. Now it seems like they're even butchering B&C to absolve TB. 🙂🙃 Girl I am not ready for the blind Rhaenyra dickriding and Alicent victim blaming to come this season. You'll know it'll be misogyny and double standards all around. The suffering Alicent endured in Season 1 will be even more disregarded.

Hi anon! 💚

Alicent isn't to everyone's taste because to understand her character, motivations, and aspirations, one needs to take the whole show as context, instead of some stand-alone scenes that provide dissatisfaction or lack the "wow"/"badass" factor that the average got/hotd viewer is used to.

I understand how Rhaenyra's character appeals to people because she is the female Targaryen heir, desires the best for her children, and is determined to honor her cause and her late father's wishes to serve the realm. Rhaenyra believes so much in herself; Alicent doesn't. Rhaenyra's overconfidence, her "flouting to do as she pleases" is what is so attractive to a lot of viewers, me included, because, well, she doesn't give a damn. She can go against the conventions of her time because she has already entered the game in a good battle formation, has the means, and is ready to play it (I'm trying to go for a chess analogy here as we saw in the promo, bear with me).

Alicent on the other hand, has entered the game as a foreigner. She did not wish this, she has no historical ties to rulership, no dragon blood to base her confidence on, and no pride in taming and riding wild beasts. She is common as Rhaenyra is exotic. What Alicent has and brings to the game is "honor, duty, sacrifice." These values alone make Alicent compelling and intriguing because they are very subtle qualities and principles that one needs to notice to comprehend her character. They are not as easily identifiable as riding a dragon or slicing a wild boar.

Yet they are equally powerful, because as Rhaenyra plays the game in the open field, being free to make her own decisions, unstoppable in always getting what she wants and being able to claim it herself, Alicent plays the game behind closed doors, in septs, praying to the seven, following directions, seeking council, and moving strategically. Rhaenyra's battle is more visually impactful, but Alicent's is equally moving if one cares to observe and understand it properly.

Therefore, what you are saying about WoC standing by Alicent makes perfect sense because the motivations and experiences as well as the feeling of always having to try twice as hard to achieve what is simply given to others is a point of connection for WoC.

You also very poignantly highlight the show's "humanization" of Rhaenyra through two birth scenes, because again, she is this exotic being whom the audience loves to aspire to, but we must also not forget that she is special while also being human. Alicent's suffering in S1 very much humanizes her in my eyes and is precisely also what distinguishes her from a commoner. She becomes a strong woman who doesn’t shy away in the fear of danger, learns to hold her head high and pushes forward the interests of herself and her children. The hate Alicent receives is uncalled for, and it stems from a misreading of her character, despite being the most interesting character in hotd in my opinion.

I’m glad you decided to stan Alicent after reading all the horrific takes about her! There are so many people in the fandom who want to vilify her, but there are also many who totally connect to her and sympathize with her character, like queer people, WoC, etc.

I didn’t like what the show did with black characters in s1 either. They served mostly as props and had brutal deaths. For S2, it does seem as if the show will want to downgrade the events of B&C and continue emphasize the narrative of Rhaenyra’s superiority (and the Greens and Alicent will be blamed and hated a lot this season), but I honestly stopped reading leaks and spoilers because they affect me a lot. I’d rather wait and see what the producers decide to do with their portrayal and then comment on the events. I’m so scared about B&C though and how this will affect the Greens’ arc and their perception by the public, but again, I’ll be standing by Alicent’s side till the end lol. 💚

[idontreallyknow26]

I'm saying this one time only because I KNOW that I will get massive hate for this if it gets to the wrong people- so warning, this post contains controversial opinions of HOTD, people who are team black will NOT LIKE THIS, SO KEEP SCROLLING. I REPEAT DO NOT PRESS READ MORE. DEAD DOVE DONT FUCKING EAT.

If Rhaenyra was a man, and Criston a woman, everybody would've considered that scene rape, and everyone would've been on Cristons side. Not because the gender roles are reversed, no, that changes nothing. But because yall can only see power imbalance when it effects a woman- Yall don't care about men. And don't get started with that "Well only women have it hard men get everything" bullshit because it's not true, especially in the situation I'm taking about. We're talking about a literal princess, who at any moment could say that Criston raped her and have him murdered (or worse) on charges of high treason, and a dornish knight who has no strings to pull or people to rely on. His hatred for her is completely reasonable.

And I'll 100% post any and all death or rape threats I get, so don't try that shit lmao

[tweedfrog]

For the character ask, wondering if you have anything about the strongs (namely thinking alys and larys but also harwin if you have any thoughts about him lol)

Alys - This is kind of like ???? Predicted hate but it hasn't happened yet so I can't actually say I hate it but i hate that there's even a faint possibility that Show! Alys might end up being a team black warrior like I don't care about her personal relationship with Aemond I just want to retain some goddamn mystery and not have this show suck every character into their TG/TB vortex. People can have their own motivations. If Alys must be a rhaenyra supporter I think it'd be really funny if it's because she's like yk what family loyalty time to put my half-nephew??? Great nephew??? Great great nephew???? On the throne and then she instantly defects when she has a kid with aemond.

For book alys I HATE THAT WE DONT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO HER AND HER KID POST DANCE RELEASE BLOOD AND FIRE RN GEORGE!!!

Larys - book larys no notes he's like evil advisor archetype. I will give credit where it's due i like how they've fleshed out his character in the show. For show larys i hate that they did the foot scene and apparently didn't decide to interrogate it at all. I thought they were going to subvert it and do a commentary about desirability and ableism but nope they didn't do shit with it just like they didn't do shit with Meleys and Rhaenys floor bombing the coronation. Apparently we *were* supposed to laugh and point and be like lmao weird foot guy 🫵😆. Ok.

Harwin - for both book and show harwin i have the same complaint which is that we basically don't get ANY development of Rhaenyra and Harwins love. Why is Rhaenyra willing to risk 2 more obviously non-targ kids by continuing her affair with harwin? It clearly meant something to her to be important enough to jeopardise her station and I would have liked to see that explored more beyond what the show did which was show us that he's a nice dude. Like ok so are a lot of people. I'm sure there are nice guys in Lys with silver hair and purple eyes why is Rhaenyra sticking to this one man like glue?

[caywinn]

Not looking forward to the fact that apparently the first episode of hotd season two is called “A son for a son” and that Dyana is also in the second episode so im assuming b&c is a two parter? Makes sense, but i was hoping to not jump into two toddlers and a baby getting attacked and their mother having to choose between which son to kill so they dont rape her daughter. Also i just am not looking forward to seeing Alicent and Helena suffering like that. Because apparently (i saw a tumblr post about it dont know how accurate it is or who posted it) that the writers wanted to have Alicent raped during it? And Olivia shut that down immediately (understandable). The got/hotd writers love having women suffer, it doesnt matter if you hate the greens, blacks, Rhaenyra, Cersie, Sansa, Dany, they ALL suffered and deserved better.

[zeciex]

You know what really grinds my gears.

That the whole season NOBODY has referred Aemond as what he is, A KINSLAYER!!!

He literally spilled blood first, but no one has called him a Kinslayer, but to Rhaenyra they call her “The Cruel” after B&C, and also they kinda referred Daemon as a Kinslayer, who he technically didn’t personally killed Jaeherys but the point is. THEY NEVER CALLED AEMOND A KINSLAYER!!

And Alicent being in delulu world, justifying it to Rhaenyra “You know what he is” like yes bitch say it, your hatred for Rhaenyra and her sons, you created Aemond on how he is.

Alicent raised her boys to hate Rhaenyra and her sons, then acts like “I dont know what went wrong with my boys while Heleana and Daeron are kind”

Girl literally Gwayne told you in the nicest way possible, it was you!!!!

YES!!! This so much!!

I have no idea why they didn't use this! Like he killed Luke, his nephew, and started this whole war! Him being the first kinslayer and therefore the worst--because B&C was a response to Luke and that is more forgivable. I really don't understand why they didn't make a bigger point out of this and the Black's using it as PR. Also, it would make sense then to see Aemond put on this facade and go 'everyone already condemn me for being a kinslayer, there's nothing I can do to change that so I might as well not try' and lean into being the monster everyone perceives him as BUT we can still see the fractures of that mask--we can see that it gnaws at him that he's being called a kinslayer, and then we could see that need for comfort grow because he's not getting it at home and that is why he goes to the brothel!

They really use the term kinslayer only in relation to Rhaenyra/Daemon which is insane because we never really get the specifics of what makes a kinslayer; is it by killing your kin with your own hand as Aemond did, or are you a kinslayer when you set it up so that other's do the deed for you? Where's the line?

They could have played with that, but the didn't.

Alicent being delulu really annoyed me this season. Especially when she's so willing to blame EVERYONE else for the situation around her, despite being an integral part of being the cause of this situation--you undermined Rhaenyra for years and plotted against her to steal her throne; you crowned your son, you protected your son for his own misdeeds (his rape of the servants) and you nurtured this hatred they have for their sister AND nurtured this fear in them that Rhaenyra would kill them all, even though YOUR SIDE has been seeking the very same with against TB. She started this, and somehow she's shocked that it would cause a war? Alicent created the whole situation and she nurtured Aemond and Aegon into being who they are, but she's so quick to blame all of her own failings on them too. And she is suddenly shocked and aghast by everything that's happening.

I will retain some of the things we've seen from Alicent this season, but there's a good amount of things I will be changing. She might be digging her heels in and trying to minimize and limit the war and push for peace, but she'll never abandon her family--and she will never just... give up as we kind of saw in last episode (e7). If she's a depressed bitch, she will be a depressed bitch clinging to her belief that she's doing the right thing, she is a bitch that clings to wanting her sacrifices to mean something.

[horizon-verizon]

Recently there's a new term in fandom (team Greens "book purist") and i look up to some "popular" team greens account who consider themselves as these "book purist" since i join asoiaf fandom i never knew about them blogs (most of them appear after Ryan Condal show).

and i notice the way their thinking "Mushroom is TEAM BLACK" and every bad thing he said about Rhaenyra is true because he claim to love her "he was on her side", or "it was Rhaenyra's son the one who sit in the throne the WINNER could change the history, and Rhaenyra aCtUaLly mOrE hOrRible than she was in f&b"?

Yes he said he love her but he is a COURT JESTER he didnt sit in council like Eustece was most of his version is just he try to be funny and pervert, he was never a team black as Eustece as official member of team green, people could look up at his asoiaf wiki (not wikifandom thats fanmade and 100% is not accurate).

When i first read dance the first thing i did was to match those two version with what actually happen after, not choosing which version is actually true.

One of the examples was the "fall apart" between Criston and Rhaenyra obviously because she refused him, Criston was always on Rhaenyra's side back then they had to mention he unhorse Alicent's brothers and Cousin (as far as i remember) he doesnt have fondness to Alicent, they are close that even Rhaenyra calling him "my white knight" (understandable she was young) even Alicent seem to dislike him "ser criston save the princess from her enemy and who save her from Ser Criston", and that man whole arc was literally on mission to destroy Rhaenyra's life, he was also the one who convince Aegon to usurped Rhaenyra keep talking about Rhaenyra's wanton way, insulting Laenor who is long dead, her children from Harwin and than how Rhaenyra and Daemon would turn the Redkeep in to brothel, isnt the fact that she is woman is not enough? This man had vandeta over her not even Alicent who hates Rhaenyra hate her and everything about her this much, even the last thing he sees is Rhaenyra's banner.

If Mushroom version is true he had NO reason to hate her this much, hurt feeling because Rhaenyra chose her throne over him? Bfr Rhaenyra chose her throne over Daemon (Rhaenyra could just runaway with Daemon since this two want to marry each other) it was her father who threatend her that she going to lose the throne or agree married to Laenor the man who she previously insult.

Now it's hard to even have a decent discussion about dance topic because they didnt know how to read history book and most of discussion rn is fill with post "anti team greens" "anti team blacks" tags when it just text from the bible itself unless it was propaganda who came from those individuals mouth not George.

I dont even like being associated with team blacks because how insufferable some of them rn, even though I agree Rhaenyra should be given the chance to sit on the throne peacefully.

Well, Mushroom was totally in Rhaenyra's "team", and thus "team black", but he and Septon Eustace both have the roles of being eyewitness or primary eye witness accounts of some behaviors, events, etc.

As Mushroom as the court jester, Eustace was the royal confessor, in that he heard several some family members confessions (think Catholic confessions) and thus some deep secrets or thoughts...and only when they made confessions....but would Daemon, Rhaenyra, etc confess anything to him, esp when Rhaenyra gets older? No. Mushroom is valuable because since he is a fool and courtiers tend to ignore fools while speaking any type of way about anything in front of him, he more than most people would have access to some hidden or secret stuff even as he tends to exaggerate. Septon Eustace also still has a limited access to secrets, but I'd argue Mushroom has a little more to give in terms of dynamics between people bec though he turns everything into a joke or exaggerates or gets too unrealistically sexual he still doesn't try to over-moralize or thinks as narrowly about human behavior as Septon Eustace does. What is true, though, is that he's till prone to lying and it's pretty easy to see when he exaggerates versus outright lies versus gives salient observations or stuff that could have happened because he is so theatrical about some of what he says and we can see where he's intentionally performing and when he's not; Septon Eustace always believes what he puts out is "the truth".

Eustace was against Rhaenyra; Mushroom, as I said favored her and preferred she become Queen AND more important, Eustace also wasn't always there to witness some events he claimed happened or such and he had his own Faith-led/sexist biases (Rhaenyra with Mysaria [both of the accounts b/t them after the Fall of King's Landing]; how the throne cutting Rhaenyra is a "sign" of her defiency as a ruler; her weight and eating habits to say she is deficient being a sexist argument as well as logically fallacious).

Also, it's not Eustace who mainly provides information of what goes on in Viserys & Aegon II's council meetings; that's the grand maesters Runicter, Mellos, and Orwyle, who all wrote royal decress and decisions as well as part of their job.

I believe a lot of team greens (I mean the fans, not the characters) want to use Mushroom as a bonafide, 100% reliable source is he is the one who gives us the false account of the Brothel Queens which works to make Rhaenyra seem the most evil person around AND he is the one who claims Sara Snow.

[rynnthefangirl]

Someone sends your anons ask to someone account, there's Aegon the younger fan who was mad cuz theres Rhaenyra and Velaryon boys fans hating on Aegon the younger calling them Monsters (if you knew atopcat she was one of them out of nowhere calling them monsters on Aegon and Viserys Rhaenyra heartwarming fanart), rn there's also post of some team black calling this boys ungrateful bastard, should been eaten by sunfyre, dont deserve the throne, im one of people who love Aegon and hate that Aegon even got on list (Targ hate by Targ stans) he even mention more than his own parents on that list, this is some of the reasons why some Aegon fan hating on Velaryons boys (yes majority those people are Velaryons fans or Rhaenyra based on their pfp or their username) i dislike them but i also hate the fact now some of Aegon fans spreading hate like Rhaenyra didnt care about Aegon at all, never consider Aegon and Viserys as her sweet sons like her older sons, how this people even know this? They dont even have proper dialogue in the book, Rhaenyra doesnt care about Viserys only Aegon does she only care about jace how this people know this? Aegon losing Viserys was shock him the most, Rhaenyra losing Jace was shock her the most at the moment she keep getting this children death after death, Fire and Blood is historical book not an actual novel with characters pov how do we know she didnt mourn Viserys?, she get karma eaten by Sunfyre!.

as someone who loved Aegon and Rhaenyra relationship more than her other sons this is so tiring, Rhaenyra doesnt give a shit if Aegon or Viserys would recognize her as westeros ruler, changing historical records yada yada, that woman was already give up on her crown at the end of the day, i dont know why some rhaenyra fans acting like Rhaenyra want Aegon thank her or owe her his life that child is her baby, and he did what best at that moment.

I dont hate Velaryons boys i just dont care about them at all because those people behaviour, but this fandom drama keep getting on my nerves that people who i thought better than those Velaryons toxic fans it turn out they are just the same, even Aegon deserve a better fan cuz now some of them sound more as Aegon the second fan.

Yeah so when I made my original post about A&V and the Velaryon boys, that was really just based on a couple of weird anti-VB posts that i stumbled upon in the Aegon III tag. Then I proceeded to get more anon asks on that topic than on anything else I’ve ever posted in the history of my blog😅 so I kind of stumbled into more of a fandom drama that I was aware existed? Idk, I’ve never see any of the animosity you’ve described against A&V from TB/Velaryon boy stans, hence my confusion. I’m not denying that it exists (I’ll never underestimate how toxic fans of all sides can be), it just hasn’t entered my internet orbit. I very much prefer A&V, but I like the Velaryon boys as well. I bear no ill will towards any of Rhaenyra’s sons, she’s my Queen and they’re her babies.🥺

If I do ever come across that kind of BS being said about my boy Aegon III though, it’s gonna be on sight🤺