#never a jayroy fan

[mikakuna]

fans are so good at ruining their favs for others bc why am i about to become a d ick anti just because i saw a dck fan make an anti jason post like what they said was some kind of gotcha when we literally see it in canon

[glitter-stained]

God I love jayroy i wish there was a comic focused on them teaming up and their relationship

[helldritch6211]

If i re wrote red hood outlaws + arsenal n red would you want to see snippets of that or would you roast me on a pike?

[notsodelirious]

OKAY hi!! a request that's been hanging in the back of my mind about that jayroy/reader one, is basically just wanting to know what their routine becomes as a slowly establishing poly relationship (i just love their dynamics so far, it's super sweet!) and how will the reader eventually interact with Lian? i feel like reader could be more nervous before meeting her and then become an absolute natural when interacting with kids maybe, but that's just me, i think HAHAH

Hi! really glad you requested this <3 I hope you enjoy this small conclusion to the trilogy

synopsis: Roy wants you to meet Lian

notes: SFW, and explicitly fem!reader with the use of she/her pronouns

tags: established relationship, fluff, minor angst, m x m x f, wc: 2.7k words

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 (current)

•─────⋅☾⊱♰⊰☽⋅─────•

The oven fan whirled softly as the savoury aroma of your cooking wafted in the air. The lights were dim and buzzed softly, syrupy rays of honey catching the swirling smoke of baked empanadas. A radio played softly from the kitchen island—outside, the city began to wind down, as streetlamps flickered on and people went home for the evening.

Jason nudged your hip with his lightly before pointing to the filling bowl by your arm with the spoon he had in hand—you slid it over before returning to your folding, swiftly closing the edges with a deft hand and slipping it onto the baking tray. It was your third one so far—a lot, yes, but you’d initially made too much filling, so the rest was going to Roy’s neighbours.

The man in question sat behind you, doing nothing but watching two of the most important people in his life happily cook dinner together—he’d been banned from touching the food after he’d tried making an empanada; which burst and spilled all over the tray. So he was relegated to the sidelines, overseeing the oven timer instead.

“How many more do you reckon?” you said as you hooked a finger past the rim of the bowl, dragging the fillings a little closer to you, “Like, half a tray?”

Jason leaned over to look, before nodding, “Yeah, probably.”

“And that’ll cover most of the pastry anyway.”

Jason just hummed, before kissing your forehead and going back to stuffing and folding the empanadas.

You shivered slightly when a hand rested on your lower back—Roy leaned over to peer at your work over your shoulder. Jason was always deceptively quiet despite his size but Roy could be too when he wanted to.

“What are you doing so close to the food?” you said teasingly, slipping one more turnover onto the baking tray.

“Need to pull out that batch in a minute,” he said as he gestured towards the oven but didn’t look away from your hands, “Why? Miss me?”

Jason snorted beside you and Roy’s head turned as he smirked.

“Aww, babe, don’t be jealous,” Roy cooed mockingly, “I love you too.”

“Your hand in her back pocket is the only reason you came over.”

Roy side-stepped to your other side. The smack then clatter of Jason’s spoon made you giggle softly. Jason covered his ass where Roy had slapped him, fixing him with a glare.

“Keep your hands-“

The timer went off, “Oh look at that, gotta go!”

Jason scowled but let him go, especially as he opened the oven; a wave of heat brushed over you as Roy used a tea towel to pull the tray out and set it on the stove grates.

“Want me to take that one?” he said as he pointed to the tray you had been filling up—you nodded as you passed it to him, watching him slip it in and put a timer on.

Roy slipped behind you, wrapping his arms around your waist as he watched you both finish the last of the empanadas and brushing them with egg yolks; he never got away with hugging Jason from behind, because he preferred to have full range of motion when cooking and didn’t like anybody stood behind him, but they had both quickly found out that you didn’t mind and Roy took full advantage of that.

You began stacking dishes, wiping down the worktop—Jason took the bowls and cutlery from your hands and you moved to go put the first serving on the table.

Roy’s arms tightened around you.

“Hold on, baby” he said, tugging you back against him.

“Roy, love, let me-“

“I want you to meet Lian.”

The bowl nearly slipped from your hands.

Roy caught it as you scrambled to regain your hold on it, and set it aside for you.

“Are you… sure?” you asked, nervously chewing at your lip as you looked up at Roy, whose grip on you finally loosened.

“We’ve been dating for several months now,” Jason said from where he was scrubbing dishes in the sink. Which was true—even if a little messily: all three of you having a night off at the same time made it hard to properly date sometimes.

Between school, work, Lian, and a secret fourth thing that definitely had nothing to do with their scars and bruises, your schedules didn’t always line up; the best you could do sometimes was going on a date with one while the other took care of Lian.

There were plenty of nights like this one, when the little one was with a friend or family, but they only happened a couple of times a month.

All this to say you weren’t ready to meet Roy’s daughter.

“She’s heard us talk about you,” Roy continued softly, his hands running along your sides, fingers teasing along the skin of your hip, just under the hem of your shirt. “And at this rate, I don’t think you’re going anywhere, sweetheart.”

“What if she hates me?”

Jason snorted, “She won’t hate you—she’s a lovely kid.”

It wasn’t her you were worried about, it was you. Sure you’d had kids in your life but none that you needed to actually get to like you. Your nieces and nephews, related and otherwise, had met you way before they could form words, let alone be cognisant.

“We’re going to the park tomorrow,” Roy said, “Join us.”

You swallowed, before nodding, “Yeah, okay.”

Roy tilted his head, smiling as he caught your gaze, “Yeah?”

“Yeah,” you returned the smile shyly. He kissed your cheek before finally releasing you and reaching to hand you back the bowl of empanadas.

“You’re the best; I love you.”

“Yeah, love you too.”

Tomorrow came very fast to you. Maybe a little too fast.

You were definitely freaking out.

“Nervous?”

“Jason, don’t.”

He raised his hands in surrender before lounging more comfortably on the park bench.

While Roy left to go pick up his daughter, you and Jason had decided to head to the park earlier than planned when he noticed you were getting a little restless staying cooped up in Roy’s apartment.

So now you paced around the bench, messing with your belt loop as you went.

“You can’t be this freaked out over a kid.”

“It’s not Lian I’m worried about,” you said, fixing him with a soft glare. Jason leaned forward to pin you with a searching look, resting his elbows on his knees like he always did when he tried to crack a hard case.

“Then what is the problem?”

“You are.”

He blinked at you, genuinely taken aback. Which… was fair; you knew what you’d said, “I just mean,” you sighed as you rubbed your face, “You love the kid—both of you. And she obviously loves you both too. I don’t want to mess this up because she’s important to you. What if I’m not good with kids?”

You risked looking up at Jason; he simply beckoned you closer. You collapsed next to him, defeated before you’d even begun.

“You’ll do fine-“

“You don’t know-“

“No, hey, look at me.”

You complied, more than reluctantly but you looked up at him. You wondered if he saw the mild, spiralling panic in your eyes.

“You’ll do fine,” he repeated, so softly like he was trying to soothe a spooked critter, “You really think Roy would let you around his only daughter if he didn’t trust you?”

You bit your lip and shrugged—you knew the answer was no, Roy had, and would, always be fiercely protective of his daughter. It was endearing.

But maybe somewhere it just made the impostor syndrome worse.

What if Roy trusted you and you managed to mess it up anyway? Because he was wrong about you? Because he’d misjudged you?

“The kid’s going to love you,” Jason said softly as he wrapped an arm around your shoulders and kissed your forehead. “And if anything goes wrong Roy and I can step in, you’ll never be alone.”

You slumped but nodded, leaning into Jason’s side.

“Come on,” he laughed softly as he rubbed your arm, “Look alive. Look who just got here.”

“Jayjay!”

You both stood, just before a small blur of black and red slammed into Jason’s legs. He laughed as he reached down to pick Lian up, with the grace and effort one would a bag of groceries.

“Hey there, stinker.”

“I’m not stinky,” Lian said, trying to sound mad but she giggled the entire sentence.

“I don’t know,” Roy piped up as he walked up, just as Jason put her down, “Uncle Dickie said somebody was being trouble during bath time.”

“I’m not stinky!”

“Okay, bug,” Jason laughed as he ruffled her hair, “You aren’t stinky.”

It was only when Lian seemed satisfied with that conclusion did she seem to take notice of you.

She tucked herself behind Jason’s legs almost immediately. You smiled at her softly—kids’ sense of shyness and perception was so weird, but very sweet.

Roy knelt down beside her and nudged her softly.

“Don’t you wanna say hi? You were so excited in the car.”

Your heart warmed at that little tidbit and you kneeled to be eye-level with them.

“Hi, sweetheart,” you said kindly, or at least the softest voice you could muster to not frighten the girl further, “It’s really nice to meet you.”

Lian mumbled something as she played with Jason’s jeans in her grasp and Roy chuckled softly.

“Didn’t you have something to give her?” he prompted gently to which she nodded and glanced up at you.

She dug her hands in her pockets before slinking out from behind Jason.

She held out a bright red and yellow bracelet to you, dotted with cute flower beads and smiley faces, “Thank you for making my Daddy and Jayjay happy.”

“Oh sweetheart,” your heart melted as you took the bracelet, easily slipping it over your wrist, silently vowing to never take it off. “It’s beautiful. Thank you.”

Lian kicked her feet as she looked down, mumbling what must have been a small “You’re welcome.”

She looked up at Roy, a little less nervous now that you’re out of her direct field of vision.

“Can I go play now?”

“Yeah, kiddo, go for it,” he smiled—as you stood she dashed away towards the playground fixtures, and the three of you were left to linger.

You kept your eyes on your pretty, new bracelet.

“She made that a while ago when she was with Kory,” Roy explained, making you look up from your wrist, “She was really excited to give it to you.”

“She looked like you were blackmailing her,” Jason snorted softly.

You smacked his arm, “She was just nervous—she was adorable.”

“And I don’t blackmail my kid!”

“Wonder why she chose these colours though,” you mused, loudly. The boys glanced at each other.

“I think we’re really bad at keeping secrets,” Roy said to which Jason just smacked him upside the head.

“No, you are.”

“Oi-“

Your laughter interrupted them as their attention snapped towards you instead.

“We’ll talk about it another time.”

Jason nodded while Roy grinned, “Yes, ma’am.”

Sitting around watching kids playing on a wooden ship wasn’t the most interesting thing you’d ever done with your day—but every time Lian popped up, waving and grinning widely, you couldn’t help how your heart warmed.

The three of you chatted throughout the afternoon—one of you always had an eye on the playground but nobody was too worried, or hovering over the little one’s movements like a hawk.

Jason was describing how Bruce taught him to bind a book in vivid detail when Lian ran up to you, nearly slamming into Roy’s knees.

“Daddy!”

“Yes, kiddo.”

“That girl has a really cool flower crown,” Lian declared, pointing towards a girl a little older than her, with a crown of daisies sat on her blond curls.

“She does, doesn’t she?”

“Can we make one?”

“Ah,” Roy glanced up at you and Jason then back down at his daughter, “I don’t actually know how to make one.”

“But I thought you knew everything!”

“But I don’t know everything, sprout.”

“I know how to make one,” you piped up and you could see the moment Lian’s wide brown eyes lit up.

“Really?”

“Do you actually?” Jason asked to which you rolled your eyes.

“Yeah, I do,” you stood, dusting paint chips off your jeans, “Come on, sweetheart, let’s go find the prettiest flowers.”

Lian eagerly grabbed your hand, wrapping her fingers around a couple of your own to drag you away with a surprising amount of force.

You glanced back to see your boyfriends snickering at you before eventually standing to follow you both.

You sat when Lian plopped down on a green patch of grass.

“You wanna find the really long ones,” you explained as you plucked an example and handed it to her so she could see the length you were talking about. “That way it’s easier to tie it together, yeah?”

She nodded and you both set to work, picking a handful of the prettiest flowers each.

You were vaguely aware of the boys behind you, but you paid them little mind as you started to explain to Lian how to weave the daisy stems together, letting her start her own as you made one yourself.

It took a couple of tries, and soft words of encouragement but she quickly got the hang of it, with surprising dexterity for a five-year-old.

“So, are you my Daddy’s girlfriend?” Lian asked as she briefly abandoned her daisy crown to look up at you.

“Yeah, sweetheart, I am. Is that okay?”

“But you’re also Jayjay’s girlfriend?”

“That’s right.”

“Why?”

You handed her a couple more flowers, the pretty ones that bled from pink to white from their centres.

“Well, you know how you can have more than one friend? And your friends aren’t just your friends, are they? They’re friends with each other too,” you explained, vaguely gesturing with one of the flowers—it was a sad-looking thing, with only a couple of petals left, but it slotted in nicely within the weave of your flower crown. “Well, it’s like that—but your dad and Jay mean more to me than friends. We all love each other very much.”

“Can I have two boyfriends when I grow up?”

You laughed softly, reaching over to help her loop one of the stems around the other, her small fingers struggling with the finer movement needed for the fragile plant.

“Well, if both your boyfriends are okay with it.”

Lian nodded, empty palms held up as she patiently waited for you to put her work back in her hands.

“Does this mean you’re going to take care of me like Jayjay takes care of me?”

“Well, do you want me to?” You gave the crown back

“I don’t know you.” You laughed softly—she stuck her tongue out as she tied more flowers together and you returned to your own. “But Jayjay likes you and Jayjay doesn’t like anybody.”

You snorted, covering it with a cough as soon as Jason looked up.

“Is that enough to put me in your good books?”

“But you’re not in a book.” You handed her more flowers as you smiled softly.

“You’re right, sorry,” you said as you looked at her and stretched your legs to put your finished flower crown in your lap, “Does it make you feel better that Jay likes me?”

“I think so,” Lian said, “Daddy and Jayjay really like you. And I think you’re really pretty and nice.”

“Well thank you, sweet pea,” you carefully placed your flower crown on her head before pointing down at hers, “Do you want me to show you how to make it a circle?”

She nodded but quickly thought better of it as her crown began to slip.

With careful hands, you showed her how to weave in the final stem.

“Tada!” she declared happily, showing off her finished crown.

“Tada,” you echoed, “Do you wanna go show your dad?”

“Yeah!”

She took off towards Roy and Jason with her wreath in hand, gentle with her grasp despite her skedaddling speeds.

“Daddy, daddy, look!”

“Wow! Did you make that? That looks amazing!”

Jason stood to meet you, all eyes still on the adorable Daddy-Daughter duo.

“No good with kids huh?”

“Shut up, Todd.”

(“Daddy? Can we get ice cream?”

“I dunno, sprout, it’s dinner time soon-“

“Roy, love? Can we go get ice cream, please?”

“…Fine.”)

•─────⋅☾⊱♰⊰☽⋅─────•

She’s done folks <3 I really enjoyed writing the throuple dynamic, it was fun and honestly let me work on my characterisation a lot—on the other hand, I never want to write another 5 year old ever again, I love Lian but she was something to figure out

Anyway, my requests are currently closed while I work through my current ones but you can find my list of current projects and masterlist here

[sparrows4bats]

So this is Batcow fan account, and I shall starting earning that title now.

Batcow is the greatest matchmaker to ever live. She is the reason for the batfamilys continuing sanity and relationship status. The Manor functions because of Alfred and Batcow.

How, you ask? How does a bovine save superhero and vigilante love lives? Why does a cow hold that much power? Dear sweet child, Batcow Is, that is how. But some quick examples of her her brilliance follow:

Dickory

Batcow is how Dick wins Kory back after a spectacular fight that almost breaks them up. Dick is upset and takes it out by arguing with Bruce and then walking around the Manor Gardens to cool off where he notices Batcow has somehow inexplicably ended up on the roof of the Manor. She looks unharmed, but there is no way for her to get down.

Dick panics because if anything happens to that cow, Damian will murder everyone in the house and fight Ras himself to get her to a Lazarus Pit. So after a moment or two of trying to think of a way out of this. He does what he usually does when his back is against the wall, and his life is on the line. He calls Kory.

After listening to him explain, she flies over and air-lifts Batcow off the roof. Where Dick promptly falls to his knees in front of this literal Queen and apologies for being a stubborn ass. Kory laughs and kisses him. Dick brings Bat Cow treats for weeks after.

JayRoy

Jason has been pining after Roy for months, possibly years, but can't find the right way to see if they could be anything more than friends. If they get together, he is in this for the long haul, not just for Roy but Lian too. So, instead of communicating like a normal person, he starts a silent campaign of proving he is Step Dad Material.

All of his attempts somehow backfire. Lian loves him, but Roy has no kitchen left and thought they both died twice. (He still lets Jason watch her, though. JASON IS OBLIVIOUS) So he is looking for child safe activities that don't involve bedtime stories(Lian prefers his over Roy's already), and then Damian remarks how friendly his pets are with civilians in his never ending pursuit of getting Bruce to allow him to patrol with his pets. And Jason knows exactly what to do. Why go to a petting zoo when he has one in the Manors backyard?

(They are still banned from the actual zoo. That penguin was fine. Eventually.)

So he brings Roy and Lian over to the Manor, and Alfred sets up lunch on the grass. Lian loves batcow and the rest of Damians' menagerie. She is so happy that after hours of cuddling and feeding the animals that she throws herself into Jason's arms and says, "Thank you, Pops! Can we come back tomorrow? Pretty please?" Jason tears up, and Roy smiles. He also asks him on a date so he can make it official. (Roy isn't as happy when he finds out about the Dragons on their next visit.)

Jason gives Lian a Batcow plushie when he adopts her a few years later.

TimBer/ Timbernkon

Tim hesitates to kiss Bernard and later Kon for so long that Batcow steps up to help him.

Tim after hours of too little sleep and too much angst . He goes to vent to the cow because she's good company and won't spill his secrets to anyone. One of these chats was interrupted by a worried Bernard looking for this boyfriend after he disappeared from his office.

Bernard loves Batcow, and seeing him act so adoring to her makes any doubt he had fly away. Because Bernard looks at him in almost the same way so he leans in and finally kisses him properly. They end up making out a little and get caught by Alfred, who came to feed Batcow her dinner.

When Tim and Bernard introduce Kon to Batcow, after a few weeks of trying to convince him to date them, Batcow full on body checks him into Bernard, and they accidentally kiss as Kon avoids crushing him. Tim pouts until Kon kisses him, too.

Bernard now visits Batcow at least once a week and bonds with Damian over her.

BatCat

They didn't know Batcow was pregnant or how she even got pregnant, until one day she went into Labour.

Damian is a mess and enlists Selinas' help because she has been around so many cat births. She tries to tell him a cow is completely different, but Damian is desperate and won't take no for an answer. Silena and Damian stay with Batcow, brushing and encouraging her until Batcalf is born.

Damian falls in love at first sight, and Silena has a realisation and suddenly blurts out that she thinks she might be pregnant while looking over the newborn. Damian doesn't react for a moment, and Silena fears the worst until he starts tearing up a little and asks rather shakily, "Does that mean I'll be a big brother?" Silena hugs him and tells him he will be the best big brother and doesn't comment on the tears that soak her shirt.

They tell Bruce together, first about Batcalf and then about the baby. (He is stunned, and Damian tells him off for his response because his silence is upsetting Silena and "She needs little to no stress in her condition, Father!")

Damian and the Cows follow Silena like shadows during her pregnancy (she doesn't ask how Batcow gets into the house and Bruce is too upset about how his son and his pets are doing a better job than him at being supportive to notice how Bat Calf sleeps on Damians bed.)

Damian is the first, after her parents, to hold Helena Wayne. He gives her two Cow plushies she carries everywhere for years.

StephCass

Batcow goes missing while Damian is on a mission, Stephanie is meant to be watching her, as Alfred is away as well. AND SHE LOST THE COW. Damian is going to kill her. Not even Cass could save her.

Then she realises, Cass! Cass will find Batcow, if anyone can, Cass, the most competent person ever, will.

So Cass and Steph spend hours searching everywhere they can think of until it starts to rain. And Cass looks so good with wet hair and rain drops sticking to her lashes that she can't help just kiss her. (They might die tomorrow if they don't find the cow anyway, so YOLO). Cass kisses back and asks, 'What took her so long?'

Batcow is on the roof on the Manor. They call Kara to come get her. No one knows how she ended up there, but they all agree never to tell Damian.

Duke/Izzy

Apparently, 'Do you want to go see my crazy family's pet cow?' is a ridiculous way to ask a girl out. But it made Izzy laugh so hard she says yes anyway.

Duke gives Batcow extra attention ever since and sends Izzy regular updates on her 'Adventures'.

Jondami

Batcow, like in the supersons movie, is one of the first things Jon and Damian bond over. Jon comes over to help Damian with his pets regularly, and that is how their partnership develops to friendship and then something more.

Then, Batcow gets sick, and Damian panics hard. (He has contingencies in place if she dies, but if he can prevent that, he will.) Damian calls for Jon for the first time ever, and Jon is there in Minutes. Damian is in tears and hugging his cow like a giant teddy bear when he arrives. He's never seen Damian look so....human. They investigate what is hurting Batcow and Jon figures out she's pregnant AGAIN, this time possibly with twins.

Damian is so relieved that he hugs Jon. It's the first time Damian has touched him willingly outside of training and missions. They are both teenagers at this point, and its like Jons whole world tilts on its axis. Righting itself to centre on the boy in his arms, a boy who is so kind and lovely, despite all the reasons he shouldn't be. Damian fits under his chin, and suddenly, Jon knows he would do anything to make him happy, to keep in his arms where Jon can protect him. Jon knows Damian can protect himself and has done so hundreds of times, but Jon wants to be the one he calls when he's scared, and based on tonight, he already is.

Damian pulls back too soon, and Jon, instead of pulling him into another hug, kisses him. Best of all, Damian kisses him back.

Duke catches them, and they swear him to secracy with the agreement that he can bring Izzy over when the new calves are born.

They still don't know how Batcow got pregnant, but they name the calves Supercow and Wondercow because Lian insisted. (Jon and Damian laugh at Bruce's face when they introduce him to the new members of the family.)

Batcow deserves an award for her service. For now, she and her children are spoiled rotten.

[problematic-aroace]

I think I figured out why I just don’t like StephCass that much(I don’t hate it I’m just not a big fan of it)

It’s because my first association with StephCass was in the Batgirls comic and I really dislike how Steph was characterised there, and it seems to be where most people started shipping it. So to me I’m just seeing a someone who’s Steph in name only X Cass. Which annoys me already. Which is made worse by when I see a mischaracterised version of Steph in fandom dating Cass. So that’s one thing that hinders me from considering the ship.

Second thing is- I’m tryna be real nice but… this ship doesn’t really have anything interesting to me. Like no angst, no stumbling blocks they have to get through together it’s just… boring. Like I don’t won’t them to have a toxic relationship at all, but their relationship just doesn’t have anything interesting(in the way the fandom portrays it at least.) I love myself a messy relationship(JayRoy is my prime example), so when it’s just… sunshine lollipops and rainbows it’s just way too boring. I definitely wouldn’t like it if it was like StephTim… god I’m gonna make a whole post on that… but I need both of them to have struggles to work though and not just be two characters kissing in the background(literally every AO3 ship in existence.) And it’s not that hard to find something for them to work through, like bring back Stephanie’s disdain for the no kill rule, make Cassandra struggle with her social life, make Stephanie struggle with accepting love(I can make a whole post about why that would be fitting to her character), make Cassandra struggle to show her love thus making it harder for Steph to receive it or even question her love

Actually another point, I fully believe StephCass should be a messy relationship that somehow works based on their character flaws and how they would clash. So most StephCass posts make it look like a shell of the two characters and makes it way too boring for my while there’s ships like StephKara(in the batgirl comic Steph is sorta a asshole to Kara at times and it looks like she’s sorta jealous of her while Kara still shows Steph the love she needs which makes it so much more interesting to me) and then StephRose(do I need to explain?). I guess I like those a lot more than StephCass because in fics I read of them, Steph tends to be characterised a lot better.

Last and final thing is well… I’m a pre52 Steph stan(specifically before war games) and well- I just never really saw the two as a couple there- they’ve always been best friends++ to me and later on in the comics: big sister, little brother. And I can’t really forget how Cass was like ‘well go home then’ to Steph when Steph told her she was fired, I know it was because Cass wanted to protect Steph, but so did Bruce so it wasn’t too much different in my eyes because they all told Steph to go home, they all discouraged her and it all had a very, very negative effect on Steph(however out of her 3 discouragers I only believe 2 should be forgiven but I know damn well Steph would still forgive 3.)

So yeah what are you guy’s ideal version of Stephanie & Cass?

[redjaybathood]

Honestly, through what we saw so far about the upcoming series, you kinda just... Can't tell whether it will be good or not. Like, on the paper, Dark Trinity was a shit idea by a proven shit writer. The first 25 issues tho? Unexpectedly good both as a story and as a Jason Todd story.

So at least we can predict that: Helena Bertinelli's fans *will* be pissed no matter what Felker-Martin does. They never liked Jason to begin with, mostly (there's some overlap, but it's not that big, and they're less on tumblr and more on, I dunno, Reddit). Remember all these posts about Jason stealing something from female characters, or Jason fans actually, deep down, wanting to read about someone like Helena (Selina, Cass, Steph, whoever), but they just hate women too much, or whatever. Yeah, I don't think this (very loud although small in numbers) category of fans will love it no matter what's written. Expect the same complaints that Koriand'r, Artemis and Roy's fans made. It's just unavoidable. But that's gonna be less about a story and more about how her character was reimagined* and put into a book with a guy they don't care for.

*(if it will be - which, with what the author says about not liking superhero genre overall, well, I'm not sure of it is from experience with the genre or just overall vibe. Even if she didn't read much Helena comics... She could have done a tonn of research about Helena, read the best work with her. Maybe the end result will not be considered a reimagining. But, I am not so sure, even if that was happening, that it will help with the disregard canon attitude, prevalent in fandom and dictated by the medium itself (i.e. Huntress in New52 isn't the Huntress in '88)

What about Jason fans? Ehh. Look, I honest to god seen fans who LIKED Cheer. And that's just shows that there will be someone who liked it (not necessarily the same ppl who liked Cheer, it's just - it boggles my mind someone thinks it's a good JPT story). And there will be some who did not. The proportion, though...

What do we know so far:

1) Jason leaves Gotham. Which, yay! Wasn't it what a good chunk of us asked for? Except, of course, those of us who like: why does he have to leave? That's his city.

2) Jason partners with Helena. Which, yay! Wasn't it what... Yeah. It was. Because it is indeed compelling, for a Jason story, to put someone to be juxtaposed against. It doesn't work that well with Bruce past UtRH, never worked with Tim and Dick, wasn't really a thing with Cass, Steph, Damian, or Duke - and like, I get it, Jason's fans are mostly adults, and the last two have a much younger audience, on average. It won't mix well, if you want to really dig into similarities and differences.

So, on paper, Helena is a good choice of a partner!

3) There might be some romantic relationship between Jason and Helena. Which, maybe the biggest thing that wasn't on anyone's list. Like, if you are inspired by Nick Robles' cover - here it is on bluesky - I don't blame you, but if you gonna say "let women fuck whoever they want" I need you to remember that Helena is an imaginary woman who will want to fuck whoever her author or editorial mandate wants to fuck. And sure, maybe we shouldn't let pesky things like her being Dick's ex stop from being open minded. Because let's be real here, that relationship wasn't of that much significance at least for Dick. And yeah, the dating pool, if you are choosing between supers, is fairly small. She couldn't be written dating, I dunno, Dr.Fate, could she? I mean, she could have, but... It would be a even more surprising pairing.

I don't necessarily agree that a book should include dating? Like, it can very well be written without. If you know me, I was very against jaytemis, for example, even if I love them separately and together. And yeah, I am a jayroy fan, but that doesn't follow that I want Jason and Roy to have romantic or sexual relationship in canon. I am not against them being married with kids, tho. For tax reasons or not to testify against each other, or just pooling resources, or just for companionship... But okay, I am going to syop right here because this post isn't supposed to be about my ideal book that won't ever be published, okay. The example is just to showcase a book can be easily written without romance.

So, tldr, I sincerely hope that the romance either going to stay on an alternate cover, or that it makes narrative sense. I don't see how it would, and I have to admit i am sceptical. But it might.

4) Politics. So the investigation about serial cop killer, Felker-Martin is a pretty hard ACAB person. So from the point of story overall, the cop killer won't be an unsympathetic villain at the very least. Who knows, it might be Helena herself (unlikely, since Jason is hunting a telepath). Cops being murdered can have a broad appeal if you write them realistically enough. Look: "Sweat, blood, and powder burns. Broken bones and mind control. A city rotted from the inside out." That's about corruption of people with authority, right? Cops very likely is either a symptom of the rot, or a cause. And the telepath might be surgically removing it. (Upd: on second thought, Jason might be hinting that telepath either not because they're the serial killer but because they are behind the mind control and rot. Like a politician or a business man; or he does hunt the telepath killer but the mind control theme is also shown through, again, mainstream politics and business; sp it's not a given that the killer will be sympathetic but it doesn't matter for Jason fans either way. Point is, nobody will cry for those cops - unless they were "good ones" who were trying to change the system and the system literally removed them, and used their deaths for a political purpose etc). At least, that's the vibe I am getting. So this is not a worry of mine.

However. When talking about politics, what I'm worried whether the story will mostly serve as exploration of fascism - with Jason being the fascist. Not the cops only, or "the powers" (which, honestly, call me paranoid but it does not sound good in the current climate, as overall, but especially now, it basically is a dog whistle). Because let's be real, this accusation is not new for Jason. And, again, be reminded that she most likely views the genre as a whole to be, well. Fascist propaganda.

Which - weird choice to go and work for said propaganda, either it is too ambitious (to change the company from within) or. Not consistent. Especially with her being happy that editorial "let her get away" with something. She is not Pavlo Tychyna, one of the few survivors of Executed Renaissance by, among other things, writing only the things the party allowed to get away with.

That's not only thing she said about superheroics in a negative way. You seen that post with bsky links, the quote above is somewhere on there as well. I was drawn to this recent reblog.

On the other hand, she didn't say all that much, it's not like she's going over and over about how she hates it/condemns the industry. And like, it's a fair criticism, yk? Sometimes superhero comics are fasc propaganda. A genre created by Jews amidst the fight against Nazism and fascism... Now it's not always carries that spirit. Batman franchise, anyone?

I wouldn't agree it's all in service of fascism and inaction. But it also drives home the point how limited and skewed her perception of the genre and or industry is. Because there's a whole lot of different comics. Maus being certainly not pro fascist, for one (upd: correction , sp apparently it's only the superhero comics that are the issue so Maud as an example isn't a good one; hmmm a good chunk of Green Arrow, Swamp thing, Superman comics then). It's like saying that Cdramas are a tool of xenophobic propaganda, or romantasy is pushed by Mormons for anti-women rights reasons.

So yeah, I dunno, from the politics perspective it's my biggest concern, not gonna lie. It's not the politics themselves, it's - will it be a good story of the author isn't that familiar and or hates the genre, and might have not read much about the title characters, or got from what they've read - "it's copaganda" / "Jason is pro death penalty" or whatever Tumblr lefties ranting on about nowadays. I am afraid it's gonna carry into the story in some way.

But, I mean, nothing can be worse than "Jason was doomed from the start" patronising hand-wrangling victim blaming bullshit. Not to point fingers on another recent Jason thing I am hesitant about.

So to summarise: most of what I've seen people worried about - don't be. She's award winning novelist, so it might end well for everyone involved. And yeah, not everyone is gonna be satisfied but nobody ever is. People hated the Red Hood: Outlaws webcomic! Arguably the best Jason's work in the last five years! Which - yeah I know I'm in the minority here, let me be. It only goes to show that not everyone gonna be happy, but someone will have the time of their life. And honestly - good for them.

[sageiii]

okay can someone PLEASE tell me if new52 makes jason and roy closer in age or if yall jayroy fans are just creepers

and if they are does that mean oliver never did the whole dead for 10 years thing?? or was roy just much younger when it happened?? PLEASE yall its for fic purposes but i refuse to read more new52 content than necessary and google is NOT helping

[gece-misin-nesin]

hi i just wanted to ask if you had any jason-centric fanfic recs that actually focus on him and not make it about another character (saying this because the bruce and tim stans do this so often for some reason)

because i don’t know, its odd, so much fanfic is dedicated to how jason has to grovel to get the approval of the batfam or batman and i don’t want that because like in my opinion jason was never wrong about anything actually. unfortunately it seems most fans disagree and then write not so enjoyable fanfic about it :/

looking at the tim drake stans in particular like thats the most boring robin dont drag jason into this 😭

Hi! First of all thank you so much for sending an ask! Basically these will be fics that focus primarily on Jason and do NOT have him be in the wrong (i have those too, bc they can be well written and they are unfortunately impossible to avoid). Theyre not in any particular order, I'm just going thru all my bookmarks haha!! This is long bc my bookmarks containing jasons character tag is 28 pages on ao3. i am very normal about him. anyway! here they are:

The Beating Heart is a 4-shot featuring Ghostmakes/Jason, so if thats not your cup of tea, ignore it. Bruce is very much an asshole in this so if you're feeling hateful towards him (which is based) this will scratch that itch

The Bowery Branch is a one-shot from the pov of a librarian in the bowery. It's a bunch of snapshots focusing on how the librarians there view and interact w jason throughout his life!

The Lost Titans is soo good. Jason and some other people start having dreams about an alternate timeline where they were in a titans team together. Then some shit starts to go down and they have to fix it. has minimum bat appearances iirc. great mystery too!!

hit me as hard as you can is another good one. i think bruce and jason start over at the end but it was such a journey?? the whole thing is very good. and i remember the writing being very poignant

Thank you, Next! is a one-shot focusing on Jason and the men he's loved over the years. Introspective and character study-esque. very good

so, you've killed the joker is, as the name implies, a oneshot abt jason killing the joker. he does NOT feel guilty about doing it, which is for some reason a common trope in fics.

Father-Hood is about Jason raising an infant before he has the chance to start his revenge plan. He also gets together with Eddie Bloomberg <3

Granted the Serenity is about Countdown w donna jason and kyle happening w an al caste jason i think. it has next to 0 bruce iirc.

Things We've Lost, and Things We've Gained takes place in the young justice cartoon verse. if u dont know about it the short story is: the first child superhero team was not teen titans and roy harper was kidnapped and replaced w a clone and when the og roy is found he is rlly angry lol. Jayroy.

Yellow, Red, and Green is an au where jason becomes a green lantern while digging out of his grave. has a sequel in the works afaik but still good as a standalone.

Get Used to Dying is, in my objectively correct opinion, THE Jason Todd fic. I have recommended it before, and it's still a masterpiece. It tells Jason's life in the format of a play, absolutely brilliant.

Sacrosanct is about jason & bruce's relationship, and i think just from bruce's pov, but I have to rec it on the ground of it just being *chefs kiss* also there is no "bruce is right and do you not know how he mourned you jason!! care more about bruces reaction to your death than your own plase :/" bs

folly of youth, jason introspection/character study iirc. remember it being really good. also the last scene has great imagery.

in a new york minute, everything can change WILL make you cry no matter how much you've read it. it's about the last 60 seconds of Jason's (first) life. heartbreaking.

April 27th / I was only a child is a jason visits his grave one-shot. no bruce.

I think I could have included more but my bookmarks are uh. LONG. If I have other recs I will rb this post!!

[halitis]

they are soulmates. they are divorced. they love each other still. they cannot put aside their morals for the other. they would do it all again despite the pain and hurt they caused because the good times and love they experienced with each other makes it worth it. and isnt that the embodiment of tragedy? loving someone despite knowing that it will never work? and still doing it anyway?

these two are so funny i don't care, my favourite divorced couple <333

[jayladfanpage]

What would be your ideal Outlaws team + how would you go about writing/constructing it? <3

My ideal team is, maybe a little predictably, Jason Todd Eddie Bloomberg and Rose Wilson.

Gosh uhm!! First of all, little to no Gotham issues. I prefer Jason when he isn't in Gotham, or is at least not interacting with the Bats, so it's just easier to have him be somewhere else. Most likely, I'd start it off in Hollywood, because I see it starting with Freshly Revived Eddie (p sure he like, just got revived in the new Flash?) not really understanding what happened for him to die and plus he's just... alone. So he texts Jason and Rose to come visit him! But then when Jay and Rose get there (already skeptical bc hello, Jason hasn't seen Eddie since they were 15 and Rose is literally Eddie's ex) Eddie gets kidnapped by a demon/magician/brother blood/etc and Jay and Rose have to go after him and that sets up the start of the comic

I'd take a more magical route with it, personally. Obviously to connect it to Eddie's whole thing as a demon hunter but also to try and fix the All-Caste stuff that Lobdell came up with. Lots of potential there if it came from a better writer. I don't think Rose does anything with magic in canon, but I do always enjoy watching characters have to adapt to seriously fucked up shit. (Plus, she has Slade's meta powers. She'll be fine.)

This is also like, you know, THE daddy issues team. So many conversations to be had between Jason and Rose about their dads bc Bruce and Slade are eerily similar in how they cope with their respective issues. Jason and Eddie can also connect over their bio dads being kind of shit (I say kind of because there's nothing I hate more than physically abusive Willis Todd. I am not kidding when I say that's the worst Jason retcon that Lobdell has ever come up with) and how they never felt wanted or loved by their parents. All three of them can relate to how their parents' abandonment (or, in Rose's case, Slade's lack of knowledge) shaped them as people. Lotssss of parallels to be drawn here

Also, obviously, Roy Harper cameo. But get this. He's here because of ROSE. I do enjoy platonic jayroy (and romantic but I don't want it to be canon) but I think the connection Roy has with Rose is a little deeper. I think he'd want to check on her after so many years (he was her foster dad! for fucks sake!) and make sure that she's doing well, considering he knows how Jason can Get.

There would also most likely be a YJ/Tim's TT crossover because duh, Eddie and Rose were in TT03 and Jason has his whole Thing (negative) with Tim, but I'm gonna be so vulnerable here and admit that the only TT03 issues I read are the ones with Mia in them + #42 + the one where Rose lights up her cigarette with Eddie's mouth fire. So, you know, can't give much insight here. Not really a Titans fan regardless of the team itself but if this Outlaws was to ever happen I'd want the author to include them in something.

Also, I think we should get a special issue where Slade repeatedly gets his ass kicked. Rose doesn't even participate but Jason and Eddie do it in her honor. Just for funsies

OH ALSO. I'd want them to bring an artist from the 2000s back. I just don't like the current art styles nearly as much </3 unless it's Ngozi. Ngozi's art is too cute to say no and I would kill to see her draw Rose!! Or or, Jason Fabok, because his art is just everything

[glitter-stained]

Tumblr dc/ao3 tagging discourse is very wild to me because I feel like some of these injunctions are contradictory ?!! Like, not tagging a post with a character who isn't in there or who doesn't speak for more than a token sentence, i get it.

But some of it? "Good tagging etiquette" what do you mean by good tagging etiquette?

Because I saw a post saying that jaymia fans were great at tagging etiquette because they had no idea jaymia existed since jaymia fans didn't flood the mia tag, and they wished jayroy fans were as good at respecting tagging etiquette. And that threw me off, because now I have questions, because I was taught tagging is great for blocking. Say for example I didn't like Slade Wilson and didn't want to see posts about him. Slade Wilson has a lot of different ships. Say I'm scrolling and a fanart of Slade Wilson with his tongue down, let's say Mia's throat, shows up. I have the Slade Wilson tag blocked, but I didn't know that was even a ship people did (this example is fictional btw i've never seen slademia) so it didn't occur me to block the Slademia tag. Because, in order to avoid "clogging" the Slade and Mia tags with ship posts, they only tagged it as "Slademia", I'm seeing it. Now I can of course block the Slademia tag and not see it again and it's fine, I'll survive, but then I'll see a Sladejoey post and be like "shit it didn't occur to me to block this one either" etc etc etc. But if I have the Slade tag blocked and people tag their posts that include Slade with Slade, then I don't have to see Slade. That's more efficient! Coming in here, I was taught one of the most important functions of tags is to allow for easy blocking. That's why I get so annoyed when post aren't tagged with "character critical" or "anti character" because these are so useful to having a respectful enjoyable time; we all have different tastes and that's FINE.

But of course, this solution isn't perfect. Indeed, if jaymia is in the jason and mia tags, i'm gonna find jaymia scrolling. And as someone who doesn't like jaymia, but likes both the characters and thus have neither tags blocked, I'm gonna have to see it first before blocking the tag. I'm not saying that can't be annoying. I'm saying it's just not as simple as "clogging the tags". Tagging Mia in posts where she's not there is clogging the Mia tag, tagging Mia posts in which Mia is there and happens to interact with a character you're not interested in seeing her interact with in this way, why would that be clogging the Mia tag?

And also, would making a post about Mia and Steph hanging out as friends be clogging the Mia tag, or are we being arbitrarily weird about romantic relationships compared to platonic relationships again? What if I liked Mia but didn't like her relationship with Roy, would tagging a "Mia and Roy headcanons" post with Mia be clogging the Mia tag? Why are we assuming that a jaymia post can't be about Mia, that it can't be an exploration of interesting themes about her character, that it can't be anything interesting about Mia just because it's shipping.

This may be confusing because out of all the examples used here, jaymia is the only one I actually don't like¹, the others are fictional examples. But just because I personally don't like it, doesn't mean I'm gonna assume people shipping Mia with Jason is somehow not about Mia and Jason -like who would it be about. The intense, virulent jaymia and jayroy hate I've seen always stemmed from people who hate Jason or at least dislike him. And like, I can't help but feel like, if you dislike Jason, ship posts that include his character would be far more easy for you to avoid since you just need to block him and be done with it. And if you want to be able to block the jason tag, the OP is also gonna have to tag roy or mia in the post, otherwise you're being unfair and arbitrary by deciding that your blorbo is absolutely lovable and nobody needs to filter them out but other people's blorbo need a warning.

And the general sentiment i see of people complaining about this clogging being a recurrent problem with jayroy also confused me because like... I've never seen a jayroy post not tagged as jayroy? Just block it??? Being annoyed once at seeing art from a ship you don't enjoy when this could have been avoided is one thing. But the idea that it's a repetitive problem... Why not use the block function?

I don't understand. All of this is to say, I just don't understand what people want, what good tagging etiquette is supposed to be because it's so contradictory.

How am I supposed to simultaneously tag everything significant in the post so the people who don't like it can block and avoid it, and simultaneously not tag anything but the ship so it doesn't clog the tag? What do you want from me, tumblr?

Anyway, sorry for the rant but like, I am so confused. What's the correct dc tumblr etiquette riddle me this tumblr. This also works for ao3 tags and filters.

1. When I say I don't like jaymia i don't dislike it I just don't feel it, it doesn't personally vibe with me but I don't hate it hence why i don't have the tags blocked if you were wondering. Also because I sometimes look for art of them hanging out in the tag since I can't find art of them being just friends.

[spiritsglade]

9 and 23 for the choose violence asks! ;)

[choose violence asks]

hi mage!! thank you for the ask!

9. worst part of canon

lots of things i could say as a jason fan but i think honestly i have to point to the laundry list of Shitty Things Bruce Has Done To His Kids. as critical as i am of him ultimately this guy is supposed to be a hero. he's supposed to be a good guy! and as interesting as i find narratives where even the 'good guys' are blatantly in the wrong... that's not what's happening here.

like ollie in snowbirds don't fly ends up blaming roy for his own addiction!! which is not great. but that's the point of the story--that this is not how you treat a loved one if you find out they're an addict. that even 'good' people can come to these conclusions. and also ollie actually makes an effort to mend things with roy later on.

with bruce it's just... it's all shock value. and then it either goes unaddressed or is justified because it wasn't actually bruce or it was actually secretly to prove a point or was code or something or whatever. bruce is supposed to be a hero. and having a heroic character hit his children (+ so many other things) with real consequence or even a serious reckoning with what's happening? i hate that.

23. ship you've unwillingly come around to

i'm sure this will be me about dickroy as soon as i lock in and read outsiders. i think this is genuinely the first time a ship's fans have put me off from said ship. (i have been in other fandoms with ships that had annoying fans/ship wars that got extremely heated. i've never felt like i've gotten pavlov'd into reacting to a ship with disgust, though!) i'm sure they're fine. what little i've seen of their relationship is actively intriguing. idk. i'd love to like them but currently i do automatically associate them with unpleasantness.

beyond that i don't think there's any ship i started out disliking? i am a multishipper and i can usually be sold on most ships if you put out a compelling enough case for it. i think perhaps there was a time where i was ehh on jayroy (and birdflash and timbern) because of that batfanon phenomenon where the ship becomes just the batboy x his 2-dimensional sidepiece.

i am very aware that my opinions esp in fandom tend to sway with the tides of popular opinion (it's an anxiety thing i think. that i am trying to unlearn.) and the anti-rhato/anti-jayroy sentiment is pretty strong, so i do actually think i passively osmosis'd it into my worldview for a while. anyway. that is clearly no longer the case.

[franollie]

Dc for the fandom ask and/or steph for the character one?

001 | Send me a fandom and I will tell you my:

Favorite character: stephanie brownnnnn

Least Favorite character: you'll never be able to guess. jason todd.

5 Favorite ships (canon or non-canon): dickkory, stephcass, boostle, cissiecassie, beatora

Character I find most attractive: helena bertinelli <333

Character I would marry: DONNAAAAA

Character I would be best friends with: i want to say steph, but i think thats like a cop-out answer. think id get along swimmingly with cissie

A random thought: im gonna start doom patrol soon so yay!! it's a relatively short reading list and im very excited :)

An unpopular opinion: i dont really like raven. she's not my least favorite titan by a long shot but i don't like her as much as i feel like im supposed to if that makes sense

My canon OTP: dickkory

Non-canon OTP: stephcass

Most badass character: kory..if i had a penny for everytime i thought "shes so cool" while reading a comic ft kory id be rich

Pairing I am not a fan of: erm. timber, dickbabs, jayroy, harlivy, stephkon, & jaysteph other than those im pretty fine with whatever

Character I feel the writers screwed up (in one way or another): it's comics, so to an extent everyone. forever mad about babsgirl revival. to a lesser extent ted being back also annoys me. im happy he's back but i like him in an oracle like role for jaime

Favourite friendship: i have a bunch but because im thinking about them right now it's tedbabs

003 | Give me a character & I will tell you

How I feel about this character: i love her so much!! they should put her in everything.

All the people I ship romantically with this character: cass, jordanna, greta on occasion, and tim in that beautiful young love to divorce kinda way

My non-romantic OTP for this character: also timsteph!!

My unpopular opinion about this character: she's a better fighter than tim. 9 times out of ten she'll beat him when they're sparring. im not one for power-scaling, but it really annoys me when people (including dc writers) undermine just how strong and skilled of a fighter steph is. she's a heavy hitting fighter and they should use that more often

One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon: abortion. more than anything i wish DC used her more. she has so much to offer!! she has so much to give! i think she'd benefit from being on a team. i really want to see her and helena team up again..maybe a psychadelic horror noir featuring helena and steph..that could be fun

My OTP: stephcass

My OT3: doesnt really count as an ot3 but the jordana/steph messy hook-ups to let of steam vs steph/cass emotionally involved but won't say anything about it love triangle that exists in my mind

[necrotic-nephilim]

6,23

for the choose violence ask game!

6. which ship fans are the most annoying?

oooh, this is hard. generally any sort of "fans of this thing are annoying" for me comes with the caveat that i don't think it's *all* fans and i don't even think it's most fans, but rather a loud minority that has shaped the ship as a whole. for some reason JayRoy tends to come to mind the most, because i've been slowly dipping my toes into the Arrowfamily and i cannot *stand* any JayRoy opinions on Oliver's parenting. i think JayRoy can be blamed for a *lot* of the misunderstandings some fans have about Oliver and Roy's relationship, as well as the existence of the Arrowfam in the first place beyond just Oliver, Roy, Dinah, and inexplicably Artemis Crock, bc Young Justice (tv) will never stop leaving its mark.

any time someone gets shipped with a Batfam member, their entire fandom presence surrounds the Batfamily and headcanons are all about Bruce adopting them too and them just being another face in Wayne Manor. and for whatever reason, Roy is one of the worst victims of this. so much JayRoy content doesn't even care to acknowledge Roy's bonds with the Arrowfam, his *daughter*, his complex relationship with Chesire, his relationship with the Titans and the Outsiders, and so forth. he's just Jason's rescue boyfriend. if i have to see one more JayRoy fan act like Bruce needs to save Roy from Oliver and they badly cite Snowbirds Don't Fly, i might lose it.

i think this could also extend to TimKon as well, with a *lot* of TimKon fans not understanding Kon's relationship to the Superfamily and *grossly* demonizing Clark for the sake of Kon being Tim's rescue boyfriend. like the misunderstandings fanon has about Clark and Kon will never not infuriate me, and i *do* think TimKon carries a brunt of that blame bc it falls into the "Kon is another orphan that Bruce takes in" vibes.

23. ship you've unwillingly come around to

JayRose i think is a recent one! i used to dislike JayRose bc it felt underdeveloped and like slapping two characters with daddy issues together, but i've lately been more and more enticed by it bc of a beloved anon who has so many delightful JayTimRose thoughts. ironically i could also say JayRoyTim, bc initially it was not my speed but once again, some anons have begrudgingly convinced me, which is impressive bc i never thought i would come around to a ship involving JayRoy for all of the above reasons. i've also been coming around to BatJokes as of recent. i never hated BatJokes but it was certainly never For Me. lately though, that faith has been questioned and i've been interested in it.

the one i've been very unwilling to but have somehow gotten dragged into is JayTalia. i was always turned off by how that was handled in Lost Days and hated the pairing. but... i've been enticed by the dead dove potential of it. i'm being converted. to be fair i still think it was mishandled in Lost Days but... i'm sort of coming around to enjoying it for what it is. idk how i ended up here but i will take any excuse to whump Jason.

[snottertooder]

5 stages of being a Jason Todd fan

Stage 1: you have surface level knowledge from Arkham knight or Batman under the red hood. There are 4 robins. He’s the angry one.Most stop here.

Stage 2: you fall down the rabbit hole, enjoy the batfamily , the Pinterest fanart and start reading wfa, believe in pit madness, your bat family only consist of the 4 robins and bruce(if the others are involved they are just background noise), you even come across the outlaws and batcest.

Stage 3: you discover tumblr, and gain consciousness you have two paths you can take

Fanon Jason Path: The delusion- you continue being at stage 2 but widen your horizon with tumblr, you read his comics from tiktok/tumblr, you headcanon him with an autopsy scar, love the J scar, “Jason wayne”, “Jason al ghul”, Bruce Wayne is a good father, Jason is Bruces favorite son, hate Willis Todd, love his dynamic with Tim, possibly batcest, love the batfamily, ship Jayroy, you are active in the Fanon and have “Jason Todd apologist” in your bio. You ignore everything happening in Canon because it’s a shit show. You lock in and consume every fan made media he’s in, love the skits people do on tiktok (respect the grind), follow inkydandy and have a Wfa profile picture. You also write fanfiction

Canon Jason Path: the truther- Hate everything and everyone, painfully consume every media he has ever been in. You understand his character in an other worldly way and can probably write him better than 90% of his writers. But because he’s so badly written, you absolutely dread everytime hes in anything, you hate Jayroy/Joyfire/batcest, you read his comics and cry yourself to sleep, You can’t stand YouTube/Tiktok/Twitter only fans, get into arguments with stage 1 /2 Jason Todd fans. Your drafts are filled with character analysis of every panel he has ever been in ,you hate wfa, have a love/hate relationship with winick, hate all his ships, You hate him being in the batfamily and you especially hate Tim Drake. You have a weird parasocial relationship with Jason where on one side you would make out nasty with him but on the other he’s your son. You also write fanfiction

Stage 5: you either retire or leave because you grew and matured. You realize you’ll never get what you want out of his character because he’ll never be properly written ever (the classism will never stop). His characterization is so bad Fanon has become distasteful and all over the place, his comic writing is so atrocious you get migraines out of it and most of all he’ll never be what you want him to be canonically (may it be good written, a Villian, a hero, an anti hero, a son, a family man,lone wolf, etc) you either stop consuming dc entirely or you move onto other dc characters that are “better written” but barely make any appearances. You only come back when you hear big news about his character from either a mutual or on social media. Which will suck you back in and you’ll go back to him like the toxic ex he is (I’m a victim)

Alternative stage 5: you block the Tim Drake tag and continue to bond with the other people who are on the Canon Jason path. It’s mentally exhausting but hey! It can’t get any worse… right…?