#need to make a death lore speculation post actually

[fandom-susceptible]

So I've been thinking about where The Dragon Prince left things after Season 7, especially since they had to wrap it up so quickly and it doesn't look like they're likely to get full ten seasons.

I'm still very unsettled by Terry. I know he had his whole "Zuko here" moment and "redemption arc", but it rings hollow for me for a guy who spent the previous several seasons totally cool with a genocide against his own people as long as it was Claudia doing it. I super don't buy his shock and dismay at Claudia trying to kill the illusion of her mother after what he himself did to Ibis. I want to know where he came from and why he's okay with Dark Magic, just so long as it's not Aaravos.

Which is only loosely tied into a thought I wanna dwell on more, but is somewhat important background information for my thought process.

So at the end of Season 7, Soren, Corvus, Pyrrah, and Terry take off looking for King Harrow in the body of Pip the songbird. They wouldn't even know to look except that Runaan confirmed that King Harrow didn't fight back at the assassination, and instead just squawked, and Corvus put the pieces together.

Ezran is still struggling to forgive Runaan for his part in Harrow's death, which I think actually adds to his depth of character. He's no longer an innocent child - the "true soul", "death of innocence" theme from this season was strong, and Ezran is the peak example of it. He must find a way to balance his ideals with the pain that far more adult figures have been struggling with for years. Callum made a good point bringing up that he forgave Zubeia, and we didn't get to see Ezran's response, but imo his reaction to Callum's betrayal sort of fills in the blanks. It was Zubeia's mate and son that she thought were dead. I can see how that would make more sense for a kid like Ezran, who grew up with very strong familial bonds and values, than Runaan and the other assassins carrying out revenge for someone else when they have no personal grudge of their own.

Anyways. Consider.

Pip/Harrow's been missing for three years now. That bird could be anywhere on either side of the continent by now, though he is living with the mind of a king. He's also nowhere near Katolis, or Ezran would have found him already, from going to talk to "Pip" and finding that the bird is carrying an entirely different soul.

So imagine, in that time lapse in the final episode, Soren and Corvus come back and confess that they haven't found anything of worth. The last maybe-sighting of Pip was from some soldiers in Viren's army who thought they saw the bird following them into the Sunfire plains in Xadia. It's been two years, and they don't know.

So Rayla says she knows someone who might be able to help. The best tracker in Xadia. He can find anyone on the Xadian side of the border, and anyone he's ever tried to find in the Human Kingdoms too. He's diligent and has only ever missed one target. If anyone can track down King Harrow, it's him . . . but Ez isn't going to like it.

Runaan.

And at first Ezran doesn't. But Rayla makes a point, and Corvus and Soren aren't having any luck on their own or with Terry (if he's even relevant, tbh, if I write it he probably won't be because i am still disturbedd by that guy). So he agrees - with conditions, of course.

Runaan is hesitant when he's told the news, and when Ezran asks him why, he just delicately points out that a king in the body of a bird is also a bird with none of the instincts of a bird, and may not have survived regardless of the war, unless he's learned how to feed himself and managed to avoid all possible predators for three years straight.

Ezran acknowledges it, tells him that's something he's . . . preparing for. But Corvus gets to make the call that they've searched too much and Harrow is likely dead. Not Runaan.

So the terms are agreed to and Runaan ends up going on a road trip with Soren and Corvus. Please imagine the comedic value of dignified older assassin in the midst of a major cultural deconstruction trying to do serious business with Soren. Especially Soren and Corvus. And the flip side - imagine Soren and Corvus seeing what Xadia is like towards Moonshadow elves, especially ones of Runaan's description (tall, menacing, leader, broken horn, homosexual - am I talking about Runaan or Kim'dael). Possibly featuring an appearance from the surviving Dragonguard, and Runaan's reaction to Hendyr specifically, the Skywing elf who KNEW Tiadrin and Lain stayed to protect the egg and chose not to save it or to clear their names.

[inbarfink]

Alrighty, so a second season of ‘Fionna and Cake’ is now Officially Confirmed! I was being very cautious about speculating and getting my hopes up until it was Actually Announced, but now that it has, I can’t say I am necessarily shocked that there is going to be a continuation. Looking back on what we can now confidently call ‘Season 1’, there are a few peculiar threads which seem like they are probably meant as a set up for this second season.

Now, everything in this post is going to be very speculative. This is just me going over aspects of Season 1 which seems weird from a perspective of set-up and payoff or just feel like they need more elaboration and thinking what might be done with them in S2. With basically nothing to go on for what will Actually Happen in Season 2 save for the fact that it will exist, just remember to put a huge caveat of ‘I don’t actually know anything yet!’ next to everything I type lol

Fionnaworld Stuff

I wanna start by talking about the one part of Fionna and Cake’s Season 2 we can be pretty certain about - which is that it’s going to feature Fionna and Cake and probably the rest of the Fionnaworld gang. Although, to be perfectly honest… Right now, I am struggling to think of a clear ‘loose thread’ that can hint at where these characters will go in future. Season 1 seemed to have left everyone fairly content. 

I’m not saying that there’s no place to explore these characters further - obviously I’m sure Season 2 will find whole new unexpected angles to develop them. I’m just saying that Season 1 doesn’t really have any clear threads you can point at as a basis for a prediction. At least nothing I can really see myself. 

Perhaps we can give more focus to the Fionna/Hunter stuff we hinted at during Season 1, but wasn’t really given center stage? Or something about Fionna learning how she can be an adventurer on her own terms, after her Season 1 experiences kinda convinced her she couldn’t at all? Or maybe since Season 1 was kinda Fionna-focused, we’re going to get a more Cake-Focused Season 2?

That’s all I got for now, at least. I guess with ‘Fionna and Cake’ being a very character-focused show, and the idea of a renewal probably not being certain when S1 was developed - it makes sense to prioritize giving a strong sense of closure for the main characters and keep the ‘sequel teasing’ stuff to just Lore/Plot hints. Like, if there’s a little Hint of Things to Come that doesn’t amount to anything because the show got canceled that’s just like a Little Weird, but leaving the main characters’ arcs/relationships feeling unresolved forever would be a much bigger problem for the show’s legacy. And speaking of which…

Prismo Stuff

And here’s the real Interesting Stuff that inspired me to make this post in the first place. I think the most notable potential ‘sequel tease’ in F&C Season 1, the thing I always noted as Odd before the second season was confirmed, the main reason I suspected a second season was probably in the works -  is definitely this little moment with Prismo during the ending…

Where he seems to ‘glitch’ for a moment.

What could this possibly mean? I am not sure, but I feel pretty confident that it’s Plot Relevant. It’s a quick but pretty noticeable Moment that doesn’t really seem to have a clear explanation within the first season, especially as it happens just as everything is wrapping up. Perhaps this is the first sign of Prismo becoming sick/malfunctioning/infected, and Season 2 is going to be about unglitching him?

Speaking of which, going into more character-related stuff… while Prismo's grief-induced-depression-spiral from Jake’s death is constantly hinted at throughout the first season - it’s never really confronted directly. I mean, we can assume that between helping out F&C and having Scarab around as a personal assistant - that could’ve helped him get a new lease on life… But maybe a second season could explore Prismo’s grief more deeply?

And then there are also these two

That’s another thing I always found very peculiar in a “hmm, are they planning on making an S2??” sort of way. Like, they spend a minute-and-a-half establishing the Core and the way it works... when I first watched it I was pretty certain it was going to come back later. Like, Simon is going to try to fuck with Time Itself to get Betty back or something. But then they just… loop back to it. It was just a piece of Lore Trivia and a background for the Actually Lore Relevant Infodump.

It might indeed be just that. Just an extra bit of Worldbuilding and a neat change of scenery in the middle of the chase scene. But I still suspect that these Time Titans will become plot-relevant at some future point. 

Multiverse Stuff

Well, out of the myriad worlds that F&C have already visited, it seems like the one that has really left a lot of lingering questions in the minds of the AT Fandom is Farmworld, and those questions are primarily…

HEY!? What the FUCK??? Is he okay?? Is he dead??

So yeah, some sort of confirmation of whatever or not Farmworld Finn is/isn’t dead, and if he is dead - some sort of confirmation of how his kids are getting by considering that their eldest brother just fucked-off to another universe one day… that would be nice and give a better sense of closure on the Farmworld segment of F&C Season 1.

But personally…I think the Multiverse Moment that really rings to me the most as a ‘probable future plot point’, is definitely this little moment in Vampireworld.

The show deliberately emphasizes the moment where the Vampire King saw our Trio use God’s Remote Control to warp to another world. And personally, the vibes here seem… meaningful.

With Bonnie also drawing attention to the fact the Vampires have over-hunted the humans and basically doomed both the world in general and Vampirekind specifically… Could this be the Vampire King’s solution to that problem? Now that he has seen ‘a new thing’, a hint at the existence of the Multiverse - will he try to find a whole new world for his children to feast on?

Well… that’s an alright villain concept and a decent plot hook. My current problem with it is just… the Mainworld Vampire King made for an intriguing and interesting character due both to his compelling dynamic with Marceline and the way he has been changed by the destruction of his people into a very contemplative and complex person. Vampireworld Vampire King doesn’t really have that, as a Vampire King who has never known defeat, he's just a Very Dramatic Evil Vampire. And I feel like Adventure Time aspires to more unique antagonists than Very Dramatic Evil Vampires. 

Now, it’s not impossible to make Vampireworld Vampire King a bit more Interesting if he ever takes center stage - maybe the population collapse of Vampireworld affected him in similar ways to Mainworld Vampire King, or maybe it affected him in a totally different direction, maybe we can give a bit more focus on the influence the Crown has or doesn’t have on him, maybe something else completely out-of-left-field could happen to him.

Or maybe the Star did end up surviving the Doomed Yuri Freefall and she’ll be the one trying out for Vampiric Multiverse Conqueror. She was always the, well, Star of Vampireworld - and she has the potential to be a very fun antagonist with cool thematic implications. I mean, like, Imagine her in contrast to Marshall. He gave up on a comfortable life in the laps of luxury due to wanting some freedom from his over-controlling mom and also it seems some level of moral outrage at her Landlordy ways

And the Star is a Daddy’s Girl Evil Vampire Princess and basically everything he has tried not to be. And yet… will he see a bit of himself in the Star?

Also, I wonder if we’ll see some more of the Alternative Universes Simon stumbled on during his trip back to Ooo. You know, the ones we haven’t actually seen in the main plot.

Simon Stuff

Okay, so… even before the announcement was made official, I have seen a lot of people assume that F&C Season 2 will be just as Simon-Focused as the first season. But personally, I am not sure about it just yet. I mean, I’m a huge Simon Fan, being part of the Petricollective ever since I started to watch the show, so I sure as hell will not complain but… it is important to remember the show is called “Fionna and Cake” and not “Fionna and Cake and Simon”.

I can see the idea being that Simon works as more of a ‘link’ between regular ‘Adventure Time’ and ‘Fionna and Cake’. You know, he’s a fan-favorite and the one major ‘loose thread’ in the original show that can draw old fans into this series which is mostly an all-new cast (considering the Fionnaworld Crew consider themselves to be distinctive from their old magical counterparts).... Kinda like he was the link between Fionnaworld and the rest of the Multiverse, actually. So he’s around as a major character for the first season and from then on he takes more of a secondary role. Since he is a good friend of F&C by this point and their main connection to Ooo, I doubt he’ll disappear completely, but he just might not be as central a character. Or maybe the theme of ‘Fionna and Cake’ is F&C teaming up with different Mainworld characters for different kinds of adventures? 

I mean, it still could go either way. Simon’s arc feels pretty well-concluded to me but the same is true for the Fionnaworld crew and… obviously they’re going to have more Character Stuff in the upcoming season and it’s the whole thing about how it’s important to make your character arcs feel concluded if you don’t know if you’re getting another season. We’ve talked about this already. 

And also… There is one aspect of Simon’s Problems at the start of the show that didn’t truly get to a satisfactory conclusion by the end of the first season. Namely, his loving-but-rocky relationships with both Marceline and Finn.

Like, y’know, he’s generally handling his Stuff better by the end of the season so I guess we can assume he’s also better at communicating with his loved ones but… it is very peculiar that we didn’t actually get to see it. Even as just a moment in his Happy Ending Montage when we see him hanging out and being happy with Finn and/or Marcy. Like, there is certainly a Point to be made about the importance of Simon making friends with people who didn’t know him much as Ice King for the sake of his recovery…

But the total absence of Finn and Marcy from Simon’s epilogue still feels… odd. So that could be something to return to in a future season. Like, I did speculate the F&C ‘format’ might be the Fionnaworld Crew + a different Mainworld character given focus every season. So maybe Simon’s still-not-fully-concluded interpersonal issues could be a launchpad to a F&C season with a primary focus on Finn and/or Marceline.

Finn and Fionna adventuring together would be pretty neat, and if we’re going to give more focus to Prismo’s Grief Problem, it would be very Thematically Appropriate. But also....confronting Finn’s own Jake Grief Problems is actually kinda challenging because we already had a whole special about it.

And that special is happening way way farther in the timeline and explicitly established that Finn never truly got over the grief of losing Jake.

So making an F&C adventure that tackles Finn’s grief in a satisfying manner without feeling it steps over Together Again’s toes… Well, it’s not impossible, but it is quite a tall feat.

Meanwhile, Marceline has less Obvious Issues That Need to Be Addressed right now but also… if we do have the Vampire King and/or the Star as a major threat for this new season, she would clearly be the one to get the Maximum Amount of Drama out of it, so…

Other Ooo Stuff

Okay, so speaking of Finn and things established early on in F&C which then didn’t really come back by the end of the first season, let’s talk a bit about the Heart of the Forest.

So this whole thing could be just a Joke. It could just be a gag about Finn disregarding Huntress Wizard’s warnings and taking his depressed middle-aged friend hiking in the Most Sacred and Ancient Forest in all of Ooo, as a joke. Haha, oh this Finn, so irresponsible! But also…

Finn and Simon were being watched. By a being wearing the same mask as the ‘Evil Bear’

But one that does not quite move like a bear world…

And then of course, this supposedly ‘Evil Bear’ only attacks Simon after he tries to get his little nerdy hands on this peculiar and important-looking tree. 

This really seems to have some implications that the ‘Evil Bear’ is not just one more random ‘evil’ monster that Finn and Simon stumbled across. That they might be some sort of Guardian for the Heart of the Forest, and that their shapeshifting abilities also extend to having some sort of humanoid form, and that they are not quite as monstrous or bestial or ‘evil’ as Finn pegged them out to be.

But all that happens is that Finn kills them, and then the whole matter is not brought up again…. Well, as of Season 1, that is…

So if we are doing some sort of Finn Focused Season, that might be something to bring up. Especially if it’s paired up with some of the Fionna/Hunter stuff I brought up above. 

Again, everything here is just Wild Wild Speculation at this point. This is just a bunch of Stuff that felt Weird resolution-wise in Season 1, and some loose ideas about how they might connect. If you guys have your own ideas and observations, I would love to hear them too!

[myddle]

Okay Uzi, lets start Murdering, some Drones

The finale of Murder Drones has come and gone, this show has successfully buried it's way into my cerebral cortex, and I will now think about it until I die

Anyway, lets speculate on what the fuck just happened in Episode 8 (And Episode 7 a bit too I guess)

Warning: Biggest Post Yet, Spoilers, Opinions

I Was Wrong About The Admin Thing, And I'm Okay With That

Last time I did a post like this, I speculated that Uzi's Administrator status would be the key to victory against the Absolute Solver. In truth, it was a blink-and-you'll-miss-it lore point, which makes sense in hindsight, because the whole Admin thing was a blink-and-you'll-miss-it lore point to begin with. This kind of environmental storytelling is good to put in a text, of course, but casual viewers need to be able to follow the plot without it. Truthfully, this is actually an area where the show usually stumbles a little; if there's one criticism I have for Murder Drones, it's that it show-don't-tells a little too hard sometimes. Luckily, this show is good enough for me to want to excuse it's flaws by any means neccessary! FOR EXAMPLE,

Khan Doorman: Mischaracterised, Or Traumatised?

So, Khan was kind of acting a little too badass at the end there, huh? This drone was a delusional door maniac at the start of the series, but now he's this stoic badass with a goofy side? Huhwhat? Explain THAT, Smart Genius!

How about I do? Call it a theory, but I think that THIS, is the real Khan, and the dingus we saw at the start of the series was a broken shadow of him.

Khan was a respected man, seeming leader of the Worker Defense Force, front of the line in finding Nori and Yeva just after the Core Collapse, and say what you will, he can build a good door.

And then tragedy strikes. The Dissassembly Drones strike, and while the WDF fends them off, they are not without casualty. Nori is devoured by nanite acid, and Khan beats her head in to end her suffering. The worst has happened.

While Nori's heart sneaks away to go make the plot happen, Khan spirals. His efforts to fight the DD scourge have failed, so he turns to doors. He doubles, triples down, becomes obsessed with the only thing that hasn't failed him. His daughter still wants to take the fight to the enemy, but Khan rejects the thought so hard, he rejects Uzi with it, hence his "doors>uzi" bullshit in the first episode (for the record, I'm not justifying it, I'm just explaining it, he was still a piece of shit for this).

By the time "Pilot" rolls around, Khan has been in a door-obsessed fugue state for... maybe years, I don't think we ever find out how long ago Nori's "death" was. But by now, he's barely functional; Uzi's second excuse to go outside literally only worked because it was door themed. His fear and delusion almost kill his only remaining family.

But as the events of the show go on, Khan is shook out of routine, and his stupor begins to fall away. In "Heartbeat", he defends his daughter's eccentricities. In "The Promening", he clumsily attempts to be part of Uzi's life again, and watches her build an alliance with N and V. In "Cabin Fever", he opens up to Uzi, revealing the darkness that haunts him and admitting to his mistakes. By "Mass Destruction" his mind has mostly cleared, and while he's still a door-loving goofball, he trusts his daughter, knows what he needs to do, and is ready to kick some Solver ass.

Wow, turns out I had a lot to say about Khan friggin' Doorman, do excuse me. Alright, onto the actual finale, now.

And Now, A Summarisation Of My Thoughts On "Nuzi"

yes

TradJedy: A Bootlicker To The End

I've seen some people are unsatisfied with J's villanous and, lets be honest, kinda pathetic role in the finale, but as sad as it is, I think it was true to her character. J is, above all, two things: Tessa's closest, favourite drone, and a corporate underling for some reason. Cyn wearing Tessa's skin was no doubt the most demoralising for J; Tessa is dead, the killer is pantomiming the life she never had, and you can't stop her. Plus, J likely knows better than anyone just how powerful the Solver is, how futile resisting it's conquest could be. But, to have a place alongside it? An offer of safety? Why wouldn't she take that offer? Hell, even V was tempted by it; when Cyn confronts her, she almost instinctively says "I can still...", as if her survival instinct is telling her to serve. J simply gave in.

Anyway, onto some details:

"If I promised you anything, it tricked me too."

I've seen people get confused by this line, but I think J is speaking on behalf of Eldritch J, formerly the J clone that led N & V's DD squad. That J seemed to fully buy the JCJenson cover story, at least to me, and J Prime appears to have deduced that. I don't think she has all of Eldritch J's memory, though; that "PRIOR HAZARD" poppup strikes me as the impersonal knowledge of an error report, rather than personal experience of getting blown to pieces.

"I never needed either of you."

Yeah, buuuuuullshit. J definitely doesn't really mean this. She's in bridge-burning mode, trying to convince herself more than anything that she's moved on. That offer of safety has gained a heavy price of two old friends, and J is pushing herself to pay it.

Local Autistic Teen Fights God And Wins

This uno-reverse-card moment felt a little out of nowhere at first, but on a rewatch, I think I get it. While the past few minutes fighting Cyn were utterly nightmarish, and some of the most gruesome stuff I've ever seen get done to humanoids, it did teach Uzi one thing; resisting the CallbackPing is suprisingly easy. Before this episode, it seemed like the USB Patch was the only hope for escaping the Solver's clutches, but apparently strong willpower and personality is enough to stop it temporarily, and that gets a lot easier to pull off once you know that you can do that. A single "Bite me" or the hand-hold of love is enough to stop Cyn's advance, and once Uzi fully realises that, it stops scaring her. In addition, Uzi's use of the [NULL] shows that she is a very quick learner, and can easily adapt to Cyn's tricks, allowing her to pull this "no-u" and turn the tables on Cyn. This quick thinking is also what wins the battle against Cyn in the end, catching on to how she uses the teleport.

Teleport... that seems familiar... hey, WAIT A SEC-

Doll Is Alive And I'm Not Coping; A Thesis

Everybody has pointed to this frame after Uzi eats Cyn's heart; the box that says "UZI DRN" briefly says "RSN DOLL" instead. But funnily enough, that isn't even the first thing that made me suspect that Doll might still be alive deep within Uzi's code.

If you look closely at Uzi's new gradient eyes, you'll notice that thEY'RE SO PRETTTYYY AAAHHH <3 <3 <3

*ahem*

If you look closely at Uzi's new gradient eyes, you'll notice that a subtle but distinct tint of red sits in between the yellow and purple ends. Admittedly, you can also see pink and orange, so it's not airtight evidence, but it was enough to get me speculating. Obviously, that RSN DOLL frame basically confirms it on it's own, but I found some other stuff too, and I thought it was interesting enough to share.

Uzi consumed Cyn's heart (some of it anyway), and Cyn lived on inside Uzi, possessing her tail in the post-credits. Back in "Mass Destruction", Cyn consumed Doll's heart, and while the scenarios aren't one-to-one, it can be reasonably inferred that Doll might live on in Cyn, who now lives on in Uzi, resulting in a situation oddly reminiscent... of Russian Dolls. BWAM BWAM BWAAAAAAM

It's thematically resonant, which means it's basically canon, right?

[There used to be another thing here about Solver Powers, but it turned out it was a lot less airtight than I thought, so I'm moving it to another post. Thanks to @1-800-hellyeah for the catch]

In conclusion, Doll lives on in the depths of Uzi's code, and that matters. The ramifications of this are unclear, and there's another thing with Doll in the credits, but we'll get to that in a moment with...

The Credits Scene Lightning Round

The credits are full of scenes of the surviving cast enjoying life after the Battle For Copper 9, and while I haven't heard anything about their canonicity... I mean, they look canon. Liam has stated that this is the end of the series, and I'm inclined to believe him, but a lot of this stuff feels like plot hooks he could pick up in a second season someday, if he wanted. Or maybe he just left them to feed the fanfic crowd long term. Either way, lets see what we've got to chew on!

J Prime, Alone

Man, despite how much of a prick she was, I feel kinda bad for J. She gave up everything for the Solver, only for the Solver to get defeated anyway, at least for now. She's repairing one of the ships she destroyed, presumably to leave the planet, but where is she gonna go? What is she gonna do? Fake Tessa's JCJenson credentials imply that the company might still be operating out in space somewhere, but trying to pal up with them feels like a long shot, especially since J Prime probably has some blood on her hands from Cyn's orders. ...What's left for her?

Goopy Ghost Doll

Okay, so if Doll is in Uzi's code, how is she also here? I honestly have no real clue, but my best guess is that since Uzi is arguably the most powerful entity in the setting now, Doll could utilise a fraction of Uzi's power to project herself out into the world, unnoticed? Maybe? That's the best I've got. Anyway, she's probably gonna try to kill V again, knowing her.

And don't say it's just a hallucination or something; everything* in the show has either been real, or an illusion with a clear source. They've been very good about not pulling the hallucination card, and I'm inclined to trust they wouldn't do it now.

*I just remembered the weird skeleton thing behind V in "Home", I'm not sure what that counts as

Yeva's Corpse, Or Lack Thereof

People have seen this shot of Doll's house, and said that the absence of one of the covered bodies implies Yeva is also alive. While Nori proves that your body doesn't even need to be missing for you to maybe be alive... I don't know. I'm hesitant. If she's alive, why get her body back now of all times? It feels like there are other much simpler explanations, like maybe her body is just on the floor now, 'cause everything started floating at the start of the episode, and actually, didn't N pull the cover off of those two, anyway? Maybe he put it back, I don't know. Make of this what you will, I got nothin'.

Eldritch J, Alone

Oh, SHE'S alive. Now THIS is interesting. Her heart did survive the explosion in "Heartbeat", and I guess nobody's been down to the Cryosleep wing since. Understandable, I wouldn't exactly be eager myself. But it's possible Eldritch J was able to recollect all the matter that Cyn "gathered" with her back then, and has grown back to full size.

Now that Cyn isn't around to run the Solver, Eldritch J is probably fully sentient and aware now. That must have sucked to wake up to; last she remembers, she got shot in the face by a purple gremlin, and now she's this fucking thing. Oh man, my brain is already writing the fanfic where J Prime finds her whilst infiltrating the Outpost for ship parts. (That concept is free to grab it anyone wants to)

Alright, lets finish this off...

Cyn

I've long wondered about Cyn's true nature, whether Cyn is a remorseless mastermind or a tragic puppet of the Solver's true will... The finale didn't give us a straight answer on this - The two seemed narratively entwined in Cyn's heart, but in the post credits scene she seems... friendly. Friendliest she's been, potentially. Plus, The illusory camera heads appear in Uzi's reflection seperately, implying a seperation between Cyn and Solver.

After everything, I think I've personally settled on somewhere in the middle. Cyn was a willing accomplice to the Solver... for as much as that can mean for Cyn. In "Home", Cyn is contacted by the Solver on the brink of death, and is offered salvation, to not be discarded like she was before. Her life before this was likely very short; her owners probably threw her out pretty quickly due to her "quirks". Tessa tried to give her the love she gave to her other drones, but it was already too late; Cyn would spend her formative years under the influence of the Solver, so it's no wonder she ended up so morally twisted. She talked about her "back-ups" to excuse the deaths and suffering of her fellow drones... was it an excuse? Or does she genuinely think that made it okay? How much does she understand... anything?

She's acted without remorse, but she's only had the full perspective of a detached eldritch being that only cares for consumption. But even then, her personality shines through. She seems to have genuine affection for N, even if she expresses it in horrid ways. Her alignment with the Solvers goals seems to come from a personal desire for revenge on humanity, considering how she plays out the gala. And despite the circumstances, she's visibly enjoying herself in "Absolute End", having an absolute blast fighting the trio. It's like a game to her.

Her crimes are great, but she's hardly the only one in this show with a kill count. I believe that if someone gave her that USB Patch, then sat her down and explained how reality works, she would have a full change of heart and crisis of remorse.

In a way, she was a lot like J; a willing, but coerced minion to the Solver of The Absolute Fabric. The Void. The Exponential End.

I like to call it The Voiceless One.

[genericpuff]

The LO TV show isn't happening, and here's why.

Now, before I begin, courtesy to /u/Princess_Space_Goose because they're one of the driving forces behind these observations concerning stuff in the entertainment sector and they were the first ones to make a comprehensive post about it over on reddit shortly after we got into it in the Discord and compiled everything we knew. But I also REALLY wanna talk about this and I'm surprised to see I haven't yet. They've covered reddit, so I'm covering Tumblr LMAO

Disclaimer: Long post ahead. Much of what I say below is speculation but there's a lot of damning evidence to support it. Take it with grains of salt.

Rachel has vague-posted about the show a couple times over the past few years, but very sparingly so, always stating that it's "in the works" without anything to actually show for it. This would have been fine back in 2020 or even 2021 (the pandemic did bring a lot of television/movie development to a crawl) but we're over halfway through 2023 now.

So where's the show? Who's running it? What is it gonna look like? Which streaming service is it going to be hosted on?

We literally do not know any definitive answers to these questions because nothing has been revealed and at this point in the game, that's basically a death sentence. LO has been on a noticeable decline in stats over the past year, while we obviously can't access the backend numbers (and neither can Rachel as far as I know because WT guards them with an iron fist which is a whole other topic for discussion) it's still very clear by the comic's rating slowly but surely dropping and the like count average lowering (obv the like count isn't indicative of view count but if the ratio has remained the same, that means if the like count lowers, the viewership is likely lowering too). There's also been certain behavior from WT over the past year that hints at the comic not doing well, such as its VERY aggressive ad campaigning which often undercuts other series on the platform that are far better than LO and deserve the spotlight, but lose it anyways because WT just wants to keep its golden goose on life support even after its heart has stopped beating.

So the fact that we don't know the answers to these questions still after 4 years is NOT good. We don't know anything and while that was excusable 3 years ago, at this point, it's more indicative of the project being at a standstill or dropped completely, and what we dug up and discussed in the ULO Discord (and what was later posted to reddit) proves it with some very telling information dissected from LinkedIn and other sources.

So far, the only people we know connected to this project are Rachel Smythe (the creator of LO) and Stephanie K Smith (the appointed showrunner). Showrunners are the lifeblood of television series, remember this. Here's a little bit about her:

Lore Olympus still doesn't have a network, this means it has no definitive spot to air, which is not good at this point, because the network is what primarily funds these projects. Think of "Netflix shows" - they're not necessarily made by Netflix, they're made by studios that Netflix funds and as such they're given the Netflix branding because Netflix is their proprietary distribution network and benefactor. So LO has no network or streaming service funding its production. All of her other credited works have affiliated networks/distributors, but LO doesn't.

"But what about Jim Henson Company?" Jim Henson Company bought the rights to LO in 2019 to produce it, that doesn't necessarily mean they were onboard to fund the entire project. Again, these studios need networks to back them, not just for monetary purposes, but with the promise that their project will have a place to go when it's finished, whether it's Netflix, HBO, etc. Think of it like a movie theater - the movie theaters aren't the ones making the movies, but they have deals with the studios to air those movies with the agreement that both sides will be making money.

Jim Henson Company is a production studio, not a network. Not only that, but they're primarily for-hire for puppetry/animatronic projects, they're not the same kind of studio as, say, Laika, or Disney, or Warner Bros. Much of their work is done on the backend, creating animatronics and puppets for kids' productions, monster movies, etc. Currently they're working as the animatronic designers for Five Nights at Freddy's, but that movie isn't a JHC movie, it's a Blumhouse production, which has hired JHC to create animatronics for them.

So, the fact that they were the ones to buy out LO for production rights is... very odd. Because for starters, they don't tend to buy out production rights like major studios, they're typically for hire, but they're also not an animation studio. Any animation projects they've worked on were for concept art and design, such as Word Party, but the folks at JHC primarily specialize in conceptualization and practical effects. That's their whole shtick, it's what they're selling, it's what they get hired for.

That's all early stuff though, stuff we've been speculating on for ages. What came to light recently that spurred on this whole essay was discovering this one section on Stephanie K's LinkedIn:

There are a couple things we can glean from this. First, we know this has to be LO even if it isn't being named, because LO is the only one that was bought by JHC.

This also confirms that LO did end up with a distribution network, specifically HBO Max.

But it also confirms that Stephanie K Smith, the showrunner, is no longer on the project, either due to willingly quitting or being removed. According to the time stamps, she left in April of this year.

This is especially not good because without a showrunner, there's no leader. Showrunners are essential to these projects. So without a showrunner, and without any sort of announcement of a replacement, LO's television show is a ship without a captain, a car without a driver, a Hell's Kitchen without a Gordon Ramsay.

There's mention of an "animated presentation" but as mentioned in that reddit post above, that's not necessarily a pilot, it's more likely it was this. Which can't even really be called "animation", it's just video editing, rigging and tweening, but I digress.

There's a lot more in that reddit thread that dives into some of the details of Stephanie K's stuff, including the HBO Max affiliation and how that potentially connects to the Sydney Sweeney trailer, but ultimately, all of these breadcrumbs add up to one of two things:

LO's television show is in severe development hell which it likely will not come out of for quite some time, especially right now with both the writer's strike and streaming services gutting their animation connections.

LO's show isn't happening at all but with LO's numbers declining and its audience growing more fed up with the series (look no further than the comments on Instagram about LO's recent Eisner win, people are PISSED) Rachel and WT are trying to do as much damage control as possible by dangling a carrot in front of the audience they have left in the hopes that they'll stick around long enough on the promise of a TV show happening to keep siphoning cash and views. After all, there are two things many readers are still sticking around for - the SA plotline, and the TV show, and both of those things are being unnecessarily dragged out in the vaguest way possible with no real resolution in sight.

Neither of these are good, but I think what's even more telling is that, since that post was made on reddit, Rachel has attended SDCC and taken part in a new interview from Girl Wonder Podcast, and when asked about the show, all she had to say was this:

"Um, it’s been really interesting. It’s been educational for me. So, what I—what has been done so far is beautiful. Like, if I could share it, I would. But I can’t. Because it’s very naughty."

IDK if the "naughty" bit is referring to the show or just her revealing info about it, but the fact that NOTHING was shown at SDCC is just. Y'all, I'm sorry, but the show is not happening. If you're gonna show off previews for television ANYWHERE, it's SDCC. It's like the E3 of comics and entertainment media. So the fact that she's STILL VAGUE-POSTING ABOUT IT EVEN AT A MAJOR EVENT WHERE IT'S COMMONPLACE TO REVEAL TRAILERS AND PREVIEWS OF NEW PROJECTS, like... it's just not happening. Jim Henson Company bought the rights to produce LO as a TV show in the summer of 2019. Since then, we haven't seen a SHRED of news, if you google "Lore Olympus TV show" it'll still be the same 2-3 articles from 2019 talking about JHC buying the rights and that's it. If you do further sleuthing, all you'll find is Rachel saying "yeah it's still happening but I can't say anything!" which means fucking nothing at this point. The only 'hope' I have left is that they'll announce it at NYCC which has Rachel in a top billing spot in its advertising, but I'm really not holding my breath at this point.

Animated productions take a while, sure, but LO wasn't the only comic bought for TV production in that late 2010's/early 2020's era. Heartstopper was bought in 2019, and it made it to Netflix by April 2022. And it was live action, a medium SEVERELY affected by the pandemic, unlike animation, which wasn't affected as much because a lot of animation development can be done from home. What did affect the animation sector was streaming services like Netflix gutting their connections to animation studios and putting animated projects on the chopping block... which also doesn't bode well for LO.

It's 2023 now and we still don't even have anything beyond those initial announcement articles and Rachel making empty promises. It's not happening. Don't fall for the "it's coming soon but I can't say anything" nonsense. It's far less genuine now than it was 3 years ago and it has nothing to support those claims that it's actually in development, and ironically far more to support mere speculation that she's lying or doing damage control.

And, if it actually is happening, on a shred of belief in that being a possibility, then it sure as shit isn't being marketed well. Knowing how to build hype in a product is an entire course of knowledge. Marvel is practically the king of building hype, they're why people sit until the very end of the credits now in the hopes of seeing an after-credit scene, even in movies that aren't made by them. LO's numbers are bleeding right now, so to not show anything at even the major events like SDCC is a blatant misfire. Almost like there isn't anything to show in the first place.

You can take all of this evidence as you will. Some of it you may dismiss as "overthinking" or whatever have you. And a lot of it is speculation based on the crumbs we've picked up along the way.

But let me pose you this as a final thought: how can it be a good sign when everything being asked about the show, by fans and critics alike, comes down to "Is the show still happening?"

The best time to reveal proof of the LO television show was 3 years ago. The second best time is now.

[aquaticptato]

I had a dream last night that is an actual plausible theory and I want to put it here so I can look back at it when the show either proves or disproves it.

First off, in the dream, Jax was one of the workers for C&A who knew about the circus's development. Maybe he was a programmer, or a random intern, who knows.

Now, Gooseworx said that Jax is going to do something "unforgivable" later in the show. Many people are speculating that he's gonna make someone abstract, aka kill them. But I had a thought- maybe he's not going to do it, but he's already done it and we'll see in a flashback or lore drop? Maybe... he's the one who got volunteers to try out the Circus? Maybe he was the "marketing team," so to speak, who convinced people to come try out this new VR and led them to their doom, even maybe KNOWING what would happen?

Gooseworx also said Jax is the newest member of the circus (besides Pomni, of course) and that he had the worst reaction out of everyone when he realized he was trapped in there.

I think maybe someone at C&A forced the headset onto Jax and trapped him there after something went really wrong, like the project needing to be hidden. A "No witnesses" situation, where the 22-year-old guy whose job was literally to tell people about it was too much of a loose end. Of course, if he was already in the know about the project, he'd instantly know he was f@#$&d, since Goose revealed that the circus members do remember their lives, just not their names.

(I think Pomni then found the headset years later after it was hidden and put it on at the computer we see in Episode 1, which is how this theory is still continuity-compliant. It's also why the headset itself looks old.)

Now, one more thing: I don't think anyone in the circus can escape. I think they're actually trapped forever. And Jax knew this, too, hence his freakout upon arrival.

Why?

Well, another thing Gooseworx posted was a list of warnings about the show. One of them was "corpse portrayal."

Additionally, when answering an ask about whether the show was going to have any major blood/gore, they said: "do decaying dried out corpses count?"

(YES, GOOSE, THEY DO.)

And I'm pretty sure we're all thinking the same thing.

Those corpses are the bodies of the circus members.

Entering the Amazing Digital Circus transfers a person's mind and consciousness into the digital realm. How could a body survive that? Be real here!

So, Pomni is dead. Jax is dead. Zooble and Gangle and Ragatha and Kinger and Kaufmo and Queenie and all the others whose names we don't know - they're all dead and decaying.

Which means, how can their consciousnesses escape the computer when they don't have a body to go back to?

And if putting on the headset really is a death sentence, then hoooo boy... Getting people to put it on even when you know they're doomed would be a pretty unforgivable thing to do, eh?

So, to summarize:

-Everyone in the circus is DEAD.

-Jax is the one responsible for everyone (except Pomni) being stuck in the Circus and therefore dying.

-We're going to see their bodies. They probably all got thrown in a cellar somewhere by C&A to hide the evidence. A fitting parallel to the Abstraction Cellar.

I sure hope I'm wrong, but I can't find any evidence against this so far.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

-Aqua🌊

Edit: Corrected the part about where Goose mentioned the corpses and got a screenshot, which I shall put here:

[themoonstarwarrior]

Why in Sam Hill would you assume that they are trying to quit when literally NOTHING has been resolved? Like at all?

Cuz of the fandom.

This show has EXPLODED. They are so popular that the fandom has reached the toxicity threshold. See the death threats when Solar died, or the entire character of Miku.

I've noticed a number of episodes, especially on the Monty and Foxy Show, where Davis breaks the fourth wall talking about how insane things has gotten. And maybe it's just him being in character, since more often than not he's playing Monty, but to me it always sounds exasperated and done. Reed has apparently had to deal with impersonation or identity theft or whatever it was. Multiple characters asking "why does this always happen" or "when will things get better" which I sometimes wonder if its actually the performers asking that. It's made me wonder for a while now if Davis and Reed still LIKE doing the show, or if it's gotten so popular and has such a rabid fanbase that they feel stuck and burdened by it.

So then this arc. More specifically the post-"what if Solar lived" part where things REALLY started going downhill. There have been people who were unhappy since the beginning of this (like me cough), but everything from the situation to the characters has gotten WORSE. I think it's safe to say that as of like three lore episodes ago (or whenever the "no longer brothers" one was), EVERYONE WHO WATCHES THIS SHOW IS UNHAPPY.

NO ONE LIKES WHATS HAPPENING.

EVERYONE IS UPSET.

There are probably quite a few fans who quit from this arc. Me and some of the fans I know on here have definitely stopped watching until things "get better". But the way the story is going, we dont know if it CAN get better. They have written themselves in a wall where there is NO WAYS of saving the MAIN CHARACTERS OR THEIR FAMILY DYNAMIC without a retcon or ass-pull.

This is ENTIRELY speculation, I do not know these people and I could be ENTIRELY off the mark, but it would make sense to me if you tried to make your super famous show hated or unpopular enough to get the pressure off so you could quit the show and do something you ACTUALLY WANTED TO DO. You wouldn't NEED to resolve anything cuz everyone's unsatisfied. Could means less backlash if they move on to other things.

Again, I dont have any grounds besides my own brain processes. Maybe they love doing the show and are just making dumb/unwanted narrative choices. But with how much EVERYONE is disappointed and fed up with the show, it makes me wonder if more of a cry for help or escape plan for the creators.

[dragonz-r-kewl]

I really hope you don't mind this ask, but I saw your post about being a Farsight fan, and as one Farsight fan to another, what do you think about her? There's not much consensus amongst us Farsight fans on her character, if the fanfictions are anything to go by, so I would love to hear your take on her.

I don't mind at all! Always happy to lose my mind over everybody's favourite barely present background character.

As for my thoughts about Farsight, I sure do have thoughts about her! Like, practically an essay's worth of thoughts about her. Too many words.

Extrapolating from what is actually canon, she's definitely a kind dragon in my eyes. She's just not very good at it. Like, she means well, but she often comes off wrong. She can seem overbearing or pitying at times, or performative at others, regardless of what she actually means. She pulls it off sometimes, of course, and she never means to come off like that, she just kind of does.

She was one of the kindest, most caring dragons on the whole of the NightWing volcanic death island. That didn't go too well for her. Instead of detaching from the present hellscape like everybody else did, Farsight felt the need to do pretty much the opposite. However, this meant she took bad things happening very hard.

Based on what we do know about her in canon, it's not that hard to assume she didn't do too well after Starflight's egg is taken. Which is very fair, considering her child was essentially kidnapped. I imagine her as ending up depressed and isolated in her grief, and ending up in the spiral of doubting herself/feeling guilty for her grief because 1) her dragonet wasn't dead and 2) it was for the good of the tribe, apparently. You know, the not good thought to be thinking of "well my suffering is less than other people's suffering, so I don't deserve to feel about it!". Poor girl.

Anyways, based on what we know from a few passing lines from Fierceteeth's winglet (practically the holy grail of Farsight lore lol), the young Fierceteeth ended up feeling neglected after Starflight's egg was taken. She was a child, not fully able to understand what was going on, and didn't take it well. At all. As she got older, and began to understand and/or figure out what was going on, she found it easier, less painful, to brush it off. After all, it's simpler than the incredibly complicated mess that the whole thing was-- sure, it wasn't Farsight's fault that this happened and she responded so poorly, but at the same time, she still ended up neglecting her present dragonet.

That's the ultimate tragedy of Farsight to me-- she was a kind person, who loved and cared for the world, and in the end, it's what killed her. Her compassion drove her to defend an innocent SeaWing, and that's what got her killed. Maybe, somewhere else, for somebody else, it would have worked out. But for Farsight, she never got the chance for things to go her way. It's incredibly unfair, just like the circumstances she was hatched into and continued to. You see, this is the kind of extrapolation that makes me all emotional over a background character.

Anyways, circling back to Fierceteeth in the form of relatonship speculation!! You see, my speculation regarding Fierceteeth's father isn't just that he died, but that he left Farsight rather traumatically and then died. This is part of why Farsight and Fierceteeth had such a strained relationship, with the whole mess that happened before she hatched making Fierceteeth incidentally associated with conflict. Farsight feels very bad about it, and she tries to be better than that, but it still puts some strain there that's worsened with everything else. Again, she tries, but it never quite goes right.

Also her and Mastermind I am more than willing to talk about! Despite being very, very different they got along remarkably well. Opposites attract sort of thing. Their flaws were just very contrasted in a way, I guess covering each other's bases? Like, Farsight is overempathetic and Mastermind is underempathetic, they're both oblivious but in differing ways, etc.. They would have been friends for a while (like, since their equivalent late teens) before entering a romantic relationship. They were very close during hard times, and although things had been slowly spiralling for a while, Farsight dying would have pushed Mastermind over the edge a little bit.

And then there's Secretkeeper. Oh god, where do I start with Secretkeeper? For one, they definitely had something going on at some point, but it was never horrifically official or well stated. They were friends since childhood, and although they got along well at first, things slowly went downhill over the years.

I think that, although Farsight was willing to forgive her at first, the conversation that took place between Secretkeeper and Farsight in the Moon Rising prologue was the beginning of the end. It dug up Farsight's feelings of invalidation about her grief, which put her in a bad place mentally. In addition, it pissed off Mastermind, who is mutual enemies with Secretkeeper, and it made their truce of 'not fighting so the dragon we both love and care about isn't upset' a hell of a lot harder to keep up. By the time Farsight died, she and Secretkeeper were barely on speaking terms.

Wow! That's depressing! Anyways, random fun stuff. She definitely would have been bi. In my eyes, she was purple and orange with curly fur. Like a sunset, or the early night sky. She was more than a little silly, as all good characters are. She was the kind of friend who pushed you into do fun things when you would've have initiated them without her.

That took more than an hour to write, I should stop now, so yeah! My thoughts on Farsight! Hopefully somewhat coherent! Sorry if I accidentally offended you with, like, a cardinal sin of Farsight characterisation.

[fandoms-and-salt]

Admittedly, this is definitely more of Disney's fault for shortening the series and this post is more of "what could have been" speculation than genuine critique, but i feel like if the crew had six 22 min episodes instead of three 44 min ones (same overall runtime!) the issues with the pacing could have been largely fixed.

They overall seem to work well with 22 min stories, as they had a lot of practice with first two seasons and this is overall more of an animation standard. With season 3 i think they were struggling to fit everything in one episode and then struggling to fill the next.

So! Just imagine (mixed with personal rewrite things bc im a salty bitch):

For the Future could be easily condensed into one episode. Boscha's and Kikimora's deal may be nice fanservice, but it's not of first importance. So the story can be cut and fiddled with to focus on just Luz and Willow with Belos doing his thing in the C plot.

The other 22 min could go either into the Thanks to Them part of the season or Watching and Dreaming part, but personally i would use it to focus on Hunter's possession.

If they want the possession thing to be a genuine point in Hunter's arc, it definitely needs more time. Show us Hunter in his mindscape struggling for control with Belos, connect it more clearly to Hunter's "i don't want to be like Belos" and "i want to be my own person not a tool" fears, show us all the classic drama of "character is forced to fight their loved one(s) but doesn't want to hurt them", give just a bit more focus to other characters reactions to the situation and give more runtime to the depressing aftermath, etc.

There still won't be enough time to show Hunter grieving, so feel like Flapjack's death still should be cut, but if not, then at least the possession thing has more narrative purpose.

The other two Thanks to Them episodes, could still focus on Luz and Camila and Luz and Hunter, maybe give them a bit more time. But i also think the additional time could be used to for Willow (actual hints and foreshadowing to her bottling up problem), Gus (he barely got anything!), Huntlow (i feel like Thanks to Them lacked a major Huntlow moment for the build up to feel more organic) and Wittebane lore.

The Wittebane lore could be also easily connected with Gus since he literally saw all of Belos' memories oh my god--

Also, more of a personal gripe maybe, but the Grimwalker reveal should have happened in Thanks to Them with Willow and Gus. The way it actually happened was just so.. anticlimactic. We could have had a moment of character development with Hunter revealing this by his own volition and that major Huntlow moment i was talking about. It also could connect to Gus&Wittebane plot!

With Watching and Dreaming i have less notes, but they definitely could have paced out Collector's arc better

And also just imagine the devastating cliffhanger Luz's death could have been.

This wouldn't have fixed everything of course, but i think the crew would have had more chance to make it work.

[felassan]

First thing, I love your blog, I've been following it for a while and I have to say that your theories for Dreadwolf and lore in general are the best. 🙈

Second thing, I have a question about Flemythal and Hawke/Warden when they were left in Here Lies the Abyss. Do you think there is a chance for survival for the person that was left in the Fade? I left Hawke cause the game kinda hinted it(from Flemeth warning to Hawke in DA2, Hawke theme playing when they talk with Varric etc). Flemeth took the soul of Urthemiel from Kieran (if he is the old god baby ofc) and is seen sending something into an eluvian before Solas comes to her. Is there a chance she sent it to Hawke/Warden (cause she can waltz into raw Fade with no problem apparently). I'm really curious to hear your thoughts! 😊

hello! welcome, and thanku for the nice msg (❁´◡`❁)

thoughts below 😊

(interesting points about Flemeth's lines to Hawke in DAII, and the Hawke Family Theme playing in the conversation with Varric in DA:I.) whether the person who was left in the Fade could have survived - you know, I'm actually not sure one way or the other? I lean towards they didn't (RIP Stroud), but there's always a chance ig. the text accompanying the choice only says "[x] will likely die to cover your escape", right? the writers could in future write that they survived, if they wanted to write that. you can kill leliana in DA:O and she still comes back in DA:I, in a manner of speaking. (an aside: peoples' art, fics and AUs etc which explore, for example, Hawke escaping from the Fade or the HoF searching for Alistair in the Fade etc, are neat. personally, I always think about this happening wrt Purple Hawkes who got left in the Fade hhh)

about Flemythal and the post-credits scene, she's seen sending something into the eluvian before Solas arrives even when Kieran doesn't exist or the Dark Ritual was never undertaken. so I tend to think it wasn't Urthemiel's soul (or wasn't only Urthemiel's soul) that we see there in that scene.

data-mining the game files on that scene yields these dev notes:

Designer’s Notes: This is Flemeth from the previous two games. In this game, Flemeth’s story comes to a head – she knew that Solas would summon her, and that he would need to steal her power to further his plans. She knew that because they are both elven gods…yet Solas has slept for a thousand years and his power dwindled, while she was killed long ago and a spark escaped from her into the body she now holds. She has nurtured that spark, and knew that Solas would need it. He was once her oldest friend, but she knows in his drive to save the elven people he will kill anyone – even her. She intends to let him have the power, so long as she can pass the essence of her god-hood onto Morrigan, a gift Flemeth had always planned for her daughter yet one Morrigan misunderstood as hostile possession.

dev notes like these from game files don’t always ‘hold true’ by the time the games ship because things can change during development and ‘legacy notes’ sometimes get left in there iirc, or else something which the player experiences or is told to them during the game contradicts them (and in those cases what’s seen/said in-game takes precedence in terms of what’s canon ofc, as these notes aren’t really meant to be ‘seen’ be players). so the notes should probably be taken with a grain of salt. still, my speculation is that the thing Flemythal pushed through the mirror is the essence of her godhood, intended for Morrigan. we don't know where the eluvian in that scene leads - maybe it leads to the Crossroads, rather than the Raw Fade? if the thing we saw was indeed intended for Morrigan, that could make sense, since she has knowledge of and access to the Crossroads.

my alternative speculation is that it was part of Flemythal's own soul; Flemythal has demonstrated before that she can split her soul into different pieces to avoid death, Horcrux-style (like amulet she gave to Hawke in DA2, "the first of my people do not die so easily" etc). 

I'm also unsure about the timing lining up - the post-credits scene with Flemythal and the mirror takes place at an unspecified time after Inquisition but before Trespasser. the person who was left in the Fade was left in there weeks or potentially months before then. so if the thing that was sent was the crux on which the person's survival depended, it would depend on the person who was left behind defeating Nightmare and surviving alone in the Fade for quite a long time until receiving the thing that was sent.

ofc, none of that means the person left in the Fade couldn't have a chance to survive separate to that.

[pieces-of-heaven]

Hey people!! I wanna share some analysis of this song that I've had for quite a while, specifically the characters. I'm VERY invested in the characters so I'll be sharing my observations!

Please note that I know none of this is canon to the song, confirmed, or the intentions of A7X! I just want to make lore and headcanons, so I completely made some of this up based on my observations!

TW: Mentions and discussion about murder, cannibalism, implied n*croph*lia

Now be warned, a lot of this is mostly speculation and theories and headcanons based off the music video considering thats the only source of media the song has other than itself, (not including the 3d concert video)

Scream and MC analysis

In a previous post I've mentioned on how I think Scream is connected to ALPOH lore-wise. So I'll be going more in depth on that!

So I think that the lyrics of Scream take place when the murder is happening. And clearly the mc has some delusional sadistic pleasure in doing what he does even if he does end up coming to regret it. Scream shows his sadism and his thought process during the murder.

If you look at the lyrics you'll see that it definitely reflects that!

And I think the whole murder situation was him going through a phase of hedonism and unhealthily indulging in his dark fantasies and primal urges (clearly hes very mentally ill). And of course he tries to justify his delusional actions until the moment of post-nut clarity where hes killed by his undead girlfriend.

The Girlfriend analysis

I think she genuinely did love him deeply and obviously wasn't planning on leaving him. As was mentioned in alpoh their relationship actually went very well, which is what started the whole thing in the first place.

So, of course her murder deeply angered her for obvious reasons. But I also think she felt a deep sense of betrayal, not just anger! Like how would you feel if the man you loved so much killed you for his own selfish needs? Betrayal, right? The person she loved turned on her in the worst way possible!

And I think after she died, she decided that nothing matters anymore since she wasn't living. Thats also why I think she flipped a switch and took revenge so easily, because what was the point in preserving her humanity when she wasnt even human anymore? Thats also why I think she gave in to forgiving and marrying him and murdering innocents so quickly after she got her revenge. She has nothing to look forward to since she's just a zombie now.

So basically, after her death she becomes a fucked up version of a nihilist, considering she can't look forward to whatever previous goals in life she had since shes dead. But also because of that, the worse she does, the more she can't go back, she's becoming worse and for her that's all the more reason to not care.

Let's go back a few steps and talk about the music video real quick. I consider it some different timeline with mostly the same events but just a little different. The song obviously doesn't include the whole rejected proposal plotline. In the song he only kills her because of intense separation anxiety, but in the video he kills her because she laughed in his face when he whipped out an expensive ass ring!!

I think in this universe, she DID reject it, but not in the way shown. Lets start off with the reason why. My personal hc is that she probably wasn't ready for marriage!!! Maybe she has some life goals (as previously stated)! Or maybe its too early in the relationship! The mc is obsessive after all, so maybe he got too caught up in their love and proposed too early. Either way, no matter the reason, I imagine she rejects it humbly. (Or maybe im just coping) And he, being the delusional mentally ill fuck that he is, thought that she was just laughing in his face, which obviously makes him mad as fuck! And then the separation anxiety kicks in too, so he's feeling a lot of crazy emotions and twisting the situation into something its not in order to justify himself and what he's about to do to her. I mean, it's not totally out there. He's an unreliable narrator in some parts of the song, he could totally be unreliable in the music video too.

So now she's dead!

Which takes me back to the whole nihilism thing with her, she has nothing to look forward to so she might as well go through with the marriage anyway, whereas she initially rejected it in life due to looking forward to other things. (Or other reasons idk)

OR... she didn't reject him at all. Maybe she took a little too long to answer, maybe he was too nervous and anxious about her answer that he made up some sort of situation to keep her in order to avoid a refusal. I don't know!

MC analysis 2: electric boogaloo

Clearly, this guy is somewhat dual-natured. In the video and the song it seemed like he's usually a decent guy, but he has this really violent and fucked up side to him.

Also lets consider the fact both M. Shadows and The Rev (rest in peace) BOTH narrated the mc in the song! Both in different times and at the same time! So that FURTHER proves my headcanon of this character having two sides to him! Let me explain.

The Rev voices the more visceral and gory parts of this characters mind and story, M. Shadows ALSO voicing those parts AND the more sensitive and sweeter parts of the mc (the beginning, the apology, so on and so forth)

In the music video where both of them are laughing (when the mc goes to hell with his gf) it shows the flashbacks where the mc is in the process of murdering his girlfriend, like two different voices speaking to him at once that this was his doing, that at the time it was right to him and this what he should be doing, and also showing what his violent urges culminated in.

And the scene in both the song and video where the wedding murder happens the rev and m shadows are also SCREAMING during that scene! And they continue singing together onwards until the end of the song! so at this point in the story, this means the character fully embraces every side of himself. He is undead, so he can accept his violent urges by continuing to kill and cannibalize (which he very much loves doing), and he married the girl of his dreams, he got what he wanted in the end.

I LOVE THIS STORY!!!

Let me know your thoughts or if there's any mistakes I've made!

[cult-bull]

The Fear of Death AU - Flock Lore Pt.2

A bit of a continuation of the previous Flock Lore post, this time about some specific members that I should eventually make some visuals for if all goes well!

Part 1 is over here, and more under the cut

The Flock had 2 very important members that shaped The Lamb's Upbringing.

One was already somewhat touched upon in Part 1, which is Julia the Ewe.

Julia was the flock's leader/protector, holding a sherrif/cowboy like visual theme with her blunderbuss and star since in this AU the Flock and parts of Amura in general have a more western theme (it will show up in more parts too, watch out anchordeep, I'm coming for you >:D)

She had a long white wool tied into 2 braids, a broad rimmed cowboy hat, and in general was a very motherly influence on the entire flock. Despite this, she was actually Fear AU Lamb's sister! Their parents were found and taken by the bishops early in their ongoing searches for sheep and lambs, so she named and raised him (though Lamb's real name is forgotten by themself)

Julia wanted to teach Lamb about justice, about balance and how to decide on right or wrong, a lesson ingrained, if somewhat twisted, into the lamb when he goes onto his eventual godly crusades and deems the death of the bishops justice. When it came to Narinder, however, the teachings of another flock member took priority.

The second important member was a black ram called Jamie. Antisocial and somewhat mean, he wasn't the most liked among the flock, but still a confidant to Julia and an occasional watcher for a young Lamb. However, Jamie would tend to go behind Julia's back when it came to teaching Lamb the use of a blunderbuss and more. While Julia wanted lamb to grow up strong, she was hesitant to teach him direct fighting or violence, she didn't want to admit to herself it was needed in their current predicament. Jamie did not have such reservations.

He taught Lamb the use of a gun, the feel of a kill, and how to handle it afterwards. The lamb should keep himself the highest priority. Because the greatest Fear Jamie possessed was that of death. No matter if slow or quick, it was better to go out fighting.

That Fear got passed down. So when Lamb earned godhood to a concept he did not want, he wouldn't give Narinder a way to not face this too. Maybe to let Narinder experience death like mortals do, before Lamb noticed the immortality. Maybe because he was still scared.

Dethroned or not. That cat was death. So best to keep that death around. Controlled. Observed. For the worst fate was death itself.

But what does it say if you are the worst fate?

Just general musings, hopefully i can expand on these two more, and actually manage to write down Lamb's mindset in a less speculative, "oooh spooky vaguee" way XD

[katyspersonal]

15, 25, 10?

DEPLOY THE BOMBS!!

(Asks from this ( x ) meme)

15) that one thing you see in fanart all the time

There are… many. After Vargram erasure in ER fandom though, I feel like none of the BB fanart complains even matter anymore. Like, why bother that grey-eyed characters are constantly drawn with blue eyes? Why bother about no-beardor? Why bother about Eileen being drawn young when there is no context of 'oh that's from her past she hunted for decades'? Or Micolash having straight and brown hair when he has wavy black hair? Or Fauxsefka stabbing Iosefka to death when in reality she turned her into Celestial Emissary? Or Arianna with blue eyes when she has weird purple eyes in fact? Or Maria missing those cute accessories on her garb by either side of her big brooch?

The list goes on. But now nothing will top people drawing Vargram the Raging Wolf within the context of him being default!Tarnished, all because promo company of ER decided that tutorial(Knight) set was not stylish enough? Like yeah, many things I see in fanart make me turn into Edna Mode, but ER fandom taught me that inaccuracies in fanart are nothing compared to consistently erasing a character that does have specific lore and drip attached just to himself, not just wears covenant outfit!

25) common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

I am going to cheat this time and pick an easy one: the constant complaint about how Soulsborne games don't have an easy mode! It is almost exclusive to Twitter but Tumblr sometimes has it too, but the girls (gender neutral) complain that they can't experience these cool stories by themselves because the games are so hard. The thing is, HOW are you supposed to experience battling a dragon or a literal God if they are not ass-breakingly hard? Even then, Soulsborne games always give you a pass by making you fight those monsters at their absolute lowest and weakest, to narratively justify how CAN you even defeat them to begin with! HOW are you supposed to experience battling a person who "has never known defeat" if you actually CAN defeat her easily?

Admittedly, I somewhat clowned on this exact topic, when I joined in to agree that Malenia's battle was unfair, but I just needed more immersion at that time + was bitter after yet another article accusing everyone of misogyny. I take that back, her battle was nothing BUT fair considering the context. Even the reason she regenerates with every hit is justified by how her Rune adapted with her spirit of resistence, and you, the player, can use this power too now! I am sidetracking though.

I just feel like we live in the era where people do not want to actually immerse into something, analyse it, devote effort to it.. They just want to "consume content" and have massive FOMO when everyone talks about a game that they 'don't have time for'. I spend 100+ hours in these games on grinding alone because I am woefully bad at playing them and can only rely on stats and upgrades! But people who are good at these games spend the same 100 hours on learning mechanics and memorizing movement patterns of the enemies! Overcoming the challenge in the way that seems fit is, as well, a part of the INTENDED experience!

All in all, there are 'story explained' videos on Soulsborne games that get straight to the facts rather than speculating, that are a good start if you want to know more about the characters and the story! I was not able to play Bloodborne for the lack of console but I got completely caught onto all lore through videos and wikias. If you don't want to play the hard games, that's fair, but maybe some "experiences" are just not for YOU and that's fine!

10) worst part of fanon

I think I've unleashed 90% of the salt in this ( x ) post already x) Yeah, good ol' Adventures of Fandomaria and Gehrmaniac.

Granted, I mentioned that Fauxsefka was not all that mischaracterized, but if I could add? She kiiiiinda is. Evilsexysefka does irk me a little, especially paired with Yurie as 'evil lesbians'. Not that they are 100% morally in the right, but this feels very trivialising, at least from the puddle-deep takes on the dynamic I've seen. Iosefka is not evil or malicious, she is 'mad from knowledge'! Even Miyazaki claimed as much as her being one of the only people in the setting who were heroic!

She doesn't feel in the right just letting people gradually turn into beasts, knowing that it is inevitable (maybe even knowing of Mensis Ritual guaranteeing it), when she CAN do something to "save" them! Her just being evil doctor removes that nuance and complexity. Yurie might have been working with her on the plan, protecting Rom because she helps to hide the ritual's effects while Fauxsefka does her thing. Which, again, doesn't make either or both of them 'evil', even if we might disagree with their methods! I myself think Damian is more in the right here fighting by our side against Rom and Yurie, to rip the bandage with the Mensis Ritual so it could be ended once and for all despite instant casualties. But the girls are in a hard situation with NO good choice in this situation, like everyone else in the setting! Give them more than your kink!

[musicals-n-cartoons]

Watching and Dreaming Reaction

Almost a week late, but here is my eleven (and final) Owl House reaction!

Before the Special

I am so nervexcited about hitting play. This is it after all. Endings are very important; many pieces of media were ruined by a bad ending. I don't think they will drop the ball, but still.

Anywhere, predictions! Man, that was a great trailer, wasn't it? Luz is dressed as Belos? That giant heart is making a surprise comeback? Lyrics!? My guess, the Collector sent them all to different games (like the pacman thing), and then Luz is put into a Belos roleplaying thing. Did Belos convince the Collector to do this as a sort of forced empathy thing? Is this a manifestation of Luz's guilt? Luz trying to find out more about the Emperor's relationship with the Collector? The Collector makes Luz into the bad guy out of jealousy? Actually, that last one might be it. Whatever the case, it looks like Luz is forced to fight all her friends, but they will manage to snap out of it long enough to do the whole "you got to wake up" "how?" "you turn on the lights" thing. I just know that's going to be a good moment, I can't wait.

It looks there is going to be a sad Collector scene. Is he by himself, or is he talking to Belos/"Raine"? I'm still thinking that Luz is going to do one last "empathized with sad kid" routine to convince the Collector to start caring about others. And then they save Raine and kill Belos! Now that I think about it, Luz and co needs a plan to drive the plot until the Collector talk. She must be sneaking around as Belos for reason after all.

Wait duh, they will be trying to beat the Collector at his own game! And then Luz will try to change it to her own game.

Ok, enough speculation, on with the show!

Side note: I caught that unauthorized thumbnail of Willow. Some people are saying that it's likely from a post-victory montage. Does that mean that Willow will become a professional Flyer derby player? Good for her.

The Special

oh, we are picking up immediately after the end of For the Future

Luz is losing consciousness and blinking while everyone was taken

back here! wait, the subtitles are saying "Papa Titan", that's a spoiler

oh, we are meeting Belos!Luz sooner than I expected

"power noodle" never change Luz

ooh, Amity is mad. Luz needs to trust her friends more

Eda!

ah, these are like nightmare dreams for the main trio

Eda fears being treated as a monster by her family, eh?

now it's King's turn. he gets to hang out with Bill!

siblings...

back to Luz... in Willow's mind? oh, she is meeting all her friends individually

here's Hunter being jealous of Luz. does this mean that Luz is feeling guilty about her life being better than him?

here's Gus putting on a show

alright! time for a witch's... battle?

wait, they're fake puppet people!

no wait, they're real, just controlled

ah, the "wake up" scene. ngl, it's not as climatic as I expected

aww, we're done with that already?

Luz wakes up on a chessboard

time to wake everyone up

ray-ray? the Collector is too cute

this was an attempt to make the trio repent? Belos going back to the old playbook I see

oh no, Belos knows about titans being immune to Collector magic!

so powerful the heart still beats

"just fix them" huh, the Collector doesn't know what death is

Raine's fighting back! you go bard!

here lies the puppet squad. but what's this? puppet Amity is making a move? I've seen the fan theories, I think I know where this is going

oh, I got the order all wrong. in retrospect, I guess it made sense that the trailer only included scenes from the very beginning

games montage: Pacman, marbles, blocks

embarrassed Collector

ah! King is using "them" to refer to the Collector!

"can't last forever" yeah, but Collector boy here can outlive you I'm pretty sure

cool, some Collector lore. so their siblings are known as the Archivists?

play a game with the titans? ooooh.... the archivists used him as a distraction to trap the baby titans. or even killed them, considering that Collector is ignorant of death

Collector is willing to settle for a pretend friend, how tragic

ah, they are going to do an owl house livewatch, I see

come on Raine, stop him!

ha! take that Be- wait, no!

it's like a cancer spreading around the iles

puppet Amity managed to scratch out a light glyph, waking them all up

ah, Luz is showing them all the places in her memories

ha, grugby is nonsense

Collector is looking left out from the trio's banter

Collector calls it titan magic, but again with the "titan's favor" thing! I don't like this idea that Luz was "given", dare I saw "chosen", her glyphs

but bonding time is over now, Belos is making his move

ha, call back to when Tinella Nosa stole that rat's home

wow, a dragon transformation, real original Belos

kindness and forgiveness, not like that Collector

oh no, Luz did a heroic sacrifice

damn, do all protagonists need to die nowadays

this is a very unfortunate way for Collector to learn about death, considering Luz is almost definitely going to come back

King and Eda's going beast mode

Luz reformed in the in-between, time for a meeting for Papa Titan?

"I should have thanked them" oh Luz. a people pleaser to the end

! is that confirmation that Hooty is tied to the titan!

"both king and queen", ah, so like snails then? or do titans reproduce asexually?

he was watching over King from beyond the grave, oh no, I'm feeling things

Luz is talking about her guilt with the titan, finally, some therapy

Luz is getting her own power up, cool

first Amity now Collector, it seems all magic is failing

oh god, Luz is literally a light glyph

omg, furry Luz! The prophecy is fulfilled!

I'm disappointed in you Luz, you didn't prepare any lines?

aww, Eda finally gets to teach Luz some traditional witch magic

and King helps with the titan wahs!

what's with the grass

ah, Camila remembers her glyph lessons

wait, is that actual land off in the distance?

hooray, Raine is saved!

the inevitable Good Witch Luz speech, yes!

Wait, wasn't Bonesborough on the left arm? or, was it the right arm?

ha, typical, Belos is trying one last trick

haha, he's dead now

"I loaf you" sobbing, it's perfect

And that's the end of the episode! now's for the epilogue

Luz's friends reunited with their parents. oh, and Odalia was there also

Darius is there to be Hunter's guardian. but Camila is still his human guardian, right?

Lumity kiss!

Amity is still not used to Hooty, huh. something to bond with Camila over

Collector is going back to the stars

Titan magic is dead

Long live palismen magic!

time skip... to leaving for university

Vee with a nose ring!

god, they did a "goodbye to the magic" fake out - trice!

Hunter is now a full-blown palismen carver

Boscha sells sports equipment. ok

Matty has a real mustache now

magic sigal removal

aww, a baby slitherbeast. and a baby selkidomus! nature is healing

Gus got a human exchange program. does this mean that the Human Realm is aware of the Demon Realm?

Eda is the headmaster of a university now

King's looking a little older

King-ceanera! what a cute way to show a quinceanera while still having a multiyear time skip. I do gotta ask, however, is this culturally sensitive?

aww, it's cute how big King's glyphs need to be to make that small light.

that was delightfully meta, what with the saying goodbye to the camera and the fakeouts from earlier.

Reactions to Other Reactions

Dana signed Luz's scholarship lol

It was neat how the titan was kinda a father figure to Luz

someone called Future Amity a lesbian sky pirate. I can see it. but wait, now that I look closer, I see that I missed that Amity is a book-hunting adventurer now

Amity's undercut reminds me of the way a fanartist who I quite like draws her

Dana confirms that Hunter's new palismen's name is Waffles

8k notes on Tumblr baby! the Owl House's number one for almost a week!

Luz died and was reborn, it's an Easter miracle! this can't be a coincidence, Disney's schedulers must know what they're doing

yeah, it's both funny and sad that Luz can believe that Amity wouldn't misquote a book but not that her friends won't hate her. the biggest flaw imo of this season is that they never dedicated enough time to resolving Luz's guilt in a satisfying way

some people think that Belo's death scene was bad and anticlimactic? not every death needs to happen during the climax, god. he was defeated already, ok? him trying to hoodwink Luz one last time and failing is just a funny way to get rid of him afterward.

and why are Philip fans so disappointed in him being called ungenuine? the man literally tried to commit genocide. no one can believe that he was genuinely trying to save anyone, and the Titan was right to tell Luz that she is nothing like him. god, you have an unhappy childhood and suddenly people start believing that murdering the Other is a logical response...

yeah, the Collector leaving everyone to go to his family just doesn't seem right. let's pretend that he visits often

oh, the Disney channel broadcast put Weirdmageddon right after this one? that's very funny

Luz is wearing Amity's necklace omg

oh, I missed the other basilisks at the university! I'm so happy for them! this means that Vee can be reunited with them

yeah, I love how Titan Luz looks so evil. she continues to look dark and edgy while actually being sweet and nice. It reminds me of how Disney villains used to be queer-coded. now the bisexual is villain-coded! it's also why I find the fan-made personality of beta Luz to be very funny. I'm pretty sure most people are misunderstanding "Lucia's" character...

wait, Titan Luz had no fluffy tail, weak

Amity didn't get to see Titan Luz! biggest casualty of the need to focus on the main trio tbh

Luz really is the Titan's blorbo

apparently, the show notes call Titan Luz "Luzan"? and somebody on Reddit suggests calling her "Luzifer". both are fun suggestions, but I think I prefer Titan Luz just a little bit better.

What's Next?

I know a lot of people are sad that The Owl House is over, but I like to be optimistic. This is not an ending, but a completion! After 4 years of hard work, the animators have finally finished, they're free from their labor! We should all celebrate!

Myself, I plan to rewatch The Owl House yet again, so that's most of the year taken care of. And putting college!Luz into the Sims is definitely on the agenda.

Of course, Disney is still making other shows. I liked The Ghost & Molly Mcgee, and Moon Girl seems cool to me. Sure, they're both less serialized than Owl House, but tbh I think serialization is less important than people make it out to be.

And there are other shows out there. I have been meaning to finish Kipo & the Wonderbeast, Dead End: Paranormal Park, and SpyxFamily. And I never started Craig of the Creek, Big City Green, etc. Contrary to what some people say, animation ain't dead yet.

[butchsophiewalten]

(Via @end-orfino)

I don't really disagree with this and I'd like to preface this whole ramble with the caveat that there's very few Walten Files Theories that I feel really married to and this whole line of thought is just me playing around with the puzzle pieces we have to try and make a picture. But if we're going to consider all context there's actually a lot of weird not-quite-right things going on with pretty much everything I mentioned or alluded to in this post.

A major thing is that this Jazmin Doll story in all likelihood isn't even a true story in the universe of The Walten Files, and is just an urban legend that gets passed around by paranormal enthusiasts. The top of the actual findjackwalten page says this much:

and considering that this is a literal 'archived' version of the "Object Possession" page of Anthony's website that does not actually exist, I figure you're meant to understand that this was a page on his website but was deleted by him when he discovered the story was fake.

For how we're meant to interpret it, that creates a lot of questions. If we're being shown the story anyway, it's definitely somehow relevant to the lore we're trying to keep track of. But if we're given the knowledge upfront that it's fake, how much of this info is even trustworthy? It's definitely at least true that Post-Extensive Object Possession is real, it directly lines up with a lot of what we know about the animatronics. Anything else is pretty up in the air. That could definitely be an explanation for any of the weird discrepancies that exist in the fine details.

It's also important that in the full context of the text, it actually took two years and two months before the first arm incident, and that it was after the first two years that the doll first began moving on its own. If i'm fishing for an explanation, then yeah, like you said, it's definitely true that a literal dancing robot is going to be designed to facilitate movement more than a doll, which is an inanimate object. Maybe a ghost is going to have an easier time controlling something that was designed to move around rather than something that wasn't? And in this case, Bon doesn't need to cry or anything especially unbelievable for a robot, like Jazmin does when her arm is removed. He just needs to move, which was the first thing Jazmin started doing anyway.

Another possible weird hiccup with this Susan idea is the existence of the Discard tape Ashley finds.

We know so little about this thing anyway that I wouldn't really say it either proves or disproves Susan Theory, just that it doesn't agree with or facilitate it in the same way some other things do. This is the tape that plays everybody's names in the order in which they died, plus Sophie, and it's dated either for the day Jack disappeared, or for an anniversary of Jack's disappearance. If the redacted number on this tape is a 4, and the tape was created the day Jack disappeared, this disproves our Susan Theory outright. There's no way Susan's death could have been an honest-to-god accident when this Suspicious Tape exists that just so happens to coincide with the deaths of all these people in the order in which they died and Susan's name is on it.

If it's not, that eventually begs the question of what the hell this tape is even for if it was created after all of those people had already gone missing, discounting Sophie, but that's not what I made this post to speculate on.

I'm paraphrasing from a conversation I had with some friends but I really like the idea of Susan's death being a genuine accident, and we have some circumstantial evidence now that could support that. Her's was the first in the string of Bon killings, discounting Jack because we don't know how he died, and Edd & Molly because we do. Her's is also the only Bon's Burgers killing we don't see/haven't yet seen Shadow Man directly present for, which has always been an indicator that a character's death was premeditated. Charles' death could also count for this, but we *do* actually see a Dark Shadowy Presence looming around during his death sequence, it's just not as easy to catch as the other ones.

(About the 28 minute mark of TWF3, the animatronic Bon looking for Charles in the restaurant, one frame later, and then a couple frames after that.)

I tend to think of this idea around two different parameters: It was not yet known that Bon was dangerous, or to what extent he was dangerous, and/or that Bon acted out of emotion in a way that was and still is pretty unprecedented of him. In keeping with the idea that he killed Susan because she was hurting him, and acted out of confusion or panic. I think of this in the context of Bon likely being newly-possessed, and just barely beginning to grapple with his strange form of consciousness and sensation.

The way Susan's death is framed in BunnyFarm, it almost seems like he attacked her before she could even begin examining him, but you can see that she actually removed the entire sleeve covering of his right arm when trying to diagnose the issue with his mech:

(You can even see the blue sleeve missing on the little pixelsprite version of Animatronic Bon. This is visible in the above screenshot, too.)

Which, yknow, reminds me of something....

[wheeler-things]

Mike Wheeler, the Hand and Eye of Vecna, and D&D as Foreshadowing

I'm about to say something unhinged.

It's going to take a fair amount of words to unpack (sorry about that) because I need to give context before I just come out and say it. And I'm fully aware that it's just one of hundreds of possible options for s5, so I'm really not trying to convince anybody of anything just... I was thinking about foreshadowing and analogies again, and something occurred to me and then it snowballed and.... hm.

Okay, so, I talked about it a lot more in this post, but the key point for what I'm talking about here is my belief that the Party's first D&D game in s1 actually foreshadows all of the main Upside Down antagonists from seasons 1-4, with the D&D Demogorgon actually representing Henry. Essentially, my breakdown came down to this:

"Something is coming. Something hungry for blood." -> s1 -> the Demogorgon. "A shadow grows on the wall behind you, swallowing you in darkness." -> s2 -> the shadow monster. "An army of troglodytes charge into the chamber!" -> s3 -> the Mind Flayer and the Flayed. "The Demogorgon!" -> s4 -> Henry Creel.

So, the remaining unaccounted for villains (assuming that the way the characters use D&D enemies as analogies is not necessarily representative of/accurate to what they actually foreshadow within the narrative) are:

Mike's Thessalhydra

Will's Juju hoard

Eddie's Vecna

I have some speculation on the first two, but it's the third that I'm going to do a deep dive into my thoughts on.

Since this is pretty long and it takes a bit of time to get through the contextualizing, let me clarify up front that this ties into the "Mike has a connection to the Upside Down" theories which I love, but which I know are not to everyone's tastes.

Who IS Vecna (in Stranger Things)?

From the campaign in s4e1, we learn:

Vecna is hiding in plain sight among his own cultists

"His skin is shrivelled. Desiccated. And [...] he is not only missing his left arm, but his left eye"

Vecna was believed to be dead/killed by Kas

An 11 isn't enough to defeat him, but a 20 is (notably, we don't actually hear what Dustin and Erica were trying to roll to do-- based on the context of the scene, we assume that it was combat-based, but it is not explicitly laid out)

Later, in s4e2, Vecna is described (in terms that the characters start to tie to the entity we later learn is Henry, in an effort to theorize about what's going on) as:

An undead creature of great power

A spellcaster

A dark wizard

Note: In the context of Eddie's description of what happened to Chrissy, the term "Vecna's curse" is brought up. This leads into the description of Vecna's characteristics listed above, but no further details (as far as I can find or remember) are given about what Vecna's curse is like in Eddie's game. Which leads me to...

Who IS Vecna (in D&D)?

Alright, I have to admit-- I've played D&D before, but my friends have a tendency to prefer MotW/PbtA-based games, and even when we HAVE done D&D, the storylines and characters have been entirely from the DM's mind/not from anything official. As a result, everything I'm about to say here is based on what Google can tell me (I'm aware others have talked about this before, but I think it gives some useful context for where I'm going to go in this analysis, if I make sure we’re all on the same page about the background D&D lore).

The main websites that I used to get information for this part can be found here, here, and here.

So! The long and short of it seems to be that in life, Vecna was a wizard who built a "terrible empire". In order to avoid death, he turned himself into a lich, and in undeath, he continued to grow his empire. He had a lieutenant named Kas, who Vecna gifted a sword to. For unknown (though the speculation does not paint him in a positive light) reasons, Kas murdered Vecna, leaving behind only Vecna's eye and left hand along with a pile of ash. However, his spirit survived the attack and he spent "eons" regaining his former power. In the meantime, his artifacts, cults, and "dark secrets" continued corrupting others/pushing them towards evil.

It may also be notable that Vecna was known to have a "formidable and hideous" temper.

And... that's the short version of everything that I could find about Vecna in D&D.

Henry Creel as Vecna

So, this is the obvious conclusion, because the characters call Henry "Vecna", which seems to have largely lead to the audience assumption that the Vecna in Eddie's campaign definitely foreshadows Henry. And I want to start out by acknowledging that I do think this is absolutely a possibility! I could 100% be wrong about the Demogorgon in Mike's campaign representing Henry, and even if I'm not, there's nothing that says there can't be two moments of foreshadowing for the same antagonist.

If Henry is Vecna, I know there are a lot of theories about who Kas is, and I'm not interested in getting too deep into the weeds on that particular debate. With that being said, I will say that when I first watched s4 I personally thought it was obvious that, if Henry was actually the person foreshadowed by Eddie's Vecna, then El was clearly Kas and had already fulfilled her part in that role?

I mean, Henry didn't have any real power in the lab so obviously El wasn't his lieutenant. But she was clearly his favourite (or, depending on how you read his character, he at least did a good job of pretending that she was his favourite). He gave her a weapon (in that he taught her to use her anger to weaponize her powers). At first she helped him with things (ie. getting Soteria out of his neck), but later she turned against him and used the "weapon" he "gave" her in order to, as far as she understood at the time, kill him (literally turned him to ash, and he appears when we see him next in the Upside Down). But, of course, he wasn't actually dead, and in line with Eddie's campaign, he came back. El tried to face him alone, but it failed/missed just like the eleven roll.

You may or may not agree with me on that, but I personally think it's the most likely scenario. I just... can't see them recreating everyone thinking Henry has been killed for a THIRD time only to bring him back AGAIN. And in my opinion, El-as-Kas (but she's already fulfilled the role) does fit very well with what we know about Vecna from Eddie's campaign/with a number of the details from D&D.

I will also concede that you could make the case that Henry was hiding in plain sight among his cultists during the time when he was interacting with baby!El (as in, he was disguised as a lab assistant, and obviously the whole Lab is dedicated to, essentially, recreating Henry's powers so that's sort of like a cult to him, I suppose), and that he is certainly, as of the present timeline in s4, something like an undead creature as well was being very powerful and functionally a dark wizard. His flesh is even shrivelled and desiccated after his time in the Upside Down.

All of which is to say, without speculating heavily about the potential events of s5, Henry does look incredibly appealing as the thing foreshadowed by Eddie's campaign.

But…

The Case for Someone Else as Vecna

There are a few main reasons why I think that Henry is a red herring as the thing Vecna was foreshadowing.

Firstly, and least compellingly (I have to mention it, but it's not evidence that stands on its own), if Mike's Demogorgon foreshadows Henry, but the Party mis-used its name for the UD's Demogorgon because it was the monster they happened to be fighting at the time, then it stands to reason that it's possible that they may have mis-used Vecna's name to apply it to Henry for the same reason-- it was the most recent/most superficially relevant enemy the Party had fought in D&D and, as such, made for a decent enough analogy to the current situation.

Secondly, just on a narrative scale, if El has already played the Kas role in the s4 flashbacks and then has also already made her failed roll in present day s4... then literally all that's left is to roll a 20 and win? It's too smooth/too easy to take up a whole season. Obviously, the writers can throw in extra drama and struggle and tension, but if we're already past the failed 11 roll, then... it can't be too intense or else the foreshadowing loses its tight 1:1 dynamic with what's happening in the plot. And “not too intense” is very rarely what people are going for when they write a finale season.

Thirdly... despite how well Henry aligns with almost all of the descriptions of Eddie's Vecna, he does not align with what I would argue are the two most emphasized descriptors (the two that Eddie puts the most passion and physicality into describing, and the two which seem to actually make it clear to the Club that the unknown cultist is Vecna). Namely: Henry very much is not missing an eye or an arm. His left arm is odd looking, but that's not because he ever lost it and had to replace it. It appears to just be part of whatever the Upside down is doing to him/turning him into (God, I hope he's turning into a Demogorgon-- I saw someone suggest that at one point and I wish I could find the post to link it here, because I think it would be the funniest and most fitting option). And Henry's eyes both look kind of odd/cloudy now, but not only does he have both of them, but the flashback to him wandering the Upside Down after El threw him in there make it explicitly clear that his injured/initially damaged eye was his right eye. It would have been just as easy, and changed nothing about the overall narrative, if they had made Henry’s left eye blind instead/to subtly align with the Vecna analogy, so the fact that they so pointedly didn’t suggests to me that, in terms of foreshadowing, Henry may not actually be Vecna at all. In fact, there is nothing at all that I can remember connecting Henry to the idea of left eyes, except that the characters call him Vecna, and Eddie's Vecna is described as being devoid of one.

Also (and this is just a small point), I do think that it's interesting that in D&D, Vecna's backstory includes him creating a dark empire, and there are a lot of theories abounding about the idea that someone in the main cast created or significantly altered the Upside Down (I've mostly seen them about Will and Mike, but I imagine there are other similar theories for other characters). Because what we know for sure is that Henry absolutely did not create it, and likely did not significantly alter it either (at least not until he met the shadow monster), I do think that it's worth noting that this is another way in which Henry's character diverges from at least the D&D version of Vecna.

Detour: How do Superpowers Work in Stranger Things?

I may or may not have driven myself mad trying to figure this out. And I also may or may not have spent a long time resigned to the idea that Kali had been retconned by s4 showing that all the other numbers seem to have basically the same powers as Henry and El (with the possible exception of El's ability to open portals into the UD-- unless Henry had this ability as well before the Mind Flayer took a chunk out of El in s3... we simply don't know yet).

I feel like I maybe heard something, at one point, that suggested that all of the kids in the lab had telekinesis and then also at least one other power. However, I can't find a source on that? Also, I don't believe there's any direct evidence of this shown in s4 (and Kali's powers outright contradict it), given that the only non-telekinetic power that we were shown by anybody but Henry and El was 010 who was able to see what others were doing in his mind (which seemed to be very similar to El's mind void abilities, if maybe a little stronger or more well-practised).

Either way, I think the evidence given in the show suggests that there are three possible ways to develop or obtain supernatural abilities in the Stranger Things universe.

Via experimentation. This was the case for El, and very likely also most of the other kids in the Lab. It also seems to have been the case for El's mother, who we see being able to flicker the lights and change the channels on her television with her mind.

Through infiltration by and/or extended exposure to the Upside Down. I'm a little more tentative on this one, because my main example of this is Will, and we all know that there are a LOT of theories about Will's abilities. And I want to stress that I cannot definitively say they're wrong. All I can say is that, as the show exists right now, one of many possible readings is that Will's abilities, such as sensing the Mind Flayer, seem to be a result of his experiences with the Upside Down. If this is accurate, then it represents a method of obtaining powers that is distinct from how El got hers. I’m not at all trying to discount the possibility that Will could have other powers that he was born with or developed due to experimentation (I love a good Will-born-with-powers theory!), I just want to consider the possibility that Will’s powers could be a result of his experiences with the Upside Down.

Being born with them/developing them spontaneously. Henry is the obvious example of this, but I also believe that Kali is another example. Her powers are completely different than those of the other numbers. Moreover, Kali was abducted when she was five, unlike El who was abducted as an infant. To me, this suggests that Kali was likely not the result of Brenner's experimentation, but rather, more similar to Henry in that she spontaneously developed powers, and Brenner took advantage of that fact. If this is the case, it would explain why Kali's powers are so different from those of everybody else that we've seen-- because it is likely that Brenner used Henry Creel as the basis upon which his experiments were developed, explaining why they largely seem to have powers very similar to Henry.

If this assessment is correct (and I cannot stress enough how speculative I am being here because this is still a huge mystery in the show itself), then I do think it's interesting that Henry (who is almost certainly going to be the main/active antagonist for the vast majority of s4, even if he doesn't turn out to be "Vecna" from Eddie's campaign in the end) represents 3/3 of these points (he was experimented on by Brenner, he has been changed by the Upside Down, and he developed his powers spontaneously), and yet, out of our protagonists, only 2/3 of those points are currently represented (El who developed her powers via experimentation, and Will who likely/possibly-- I know everyone has their own strong opinions on this developed them via exposure to the Upside Down)?

In reality, I think that if my interpretation of how getting superpowers works in this universe is accurate, then it seems to me that we will very likely have a character with powers that developed naturally to complement El and Will.

However, both for narrative reasons (it would feel too shoehorned in/too Deus ex Machina) and for fitting in with the other established characters who seem to have spontaneously developed powers reasons, it would not make sense for any of our protagonists to all of a sudden start moving things with their minds. Narratively, it would just seem like it was being added in at the last minute and, anyway, it seems like Kali developed her powers/showed clear signs of them before the age of five, and Henry developed his around the age of twelve, so it’s likely that if any of our characters were going to develop powers, it would start before their teenage years.

So, assuming we're not getting Erica (God, I wish) or Holly (...I mean, I wouldn't complain) suddenly developing powers of their own, it seems likely that if any of our characters are going to have spontaneous powers, they likely already have them/are already using them. However, I don't think any of our beloved ensemble cast would know they have powers and not share that with the class. They all want to beat the Upside Down, and El and Will have already more than shown how useful superpowers are in that effort.

And... on a narrative level, let's be real. If this is the direction things are going, the reveal of these powers/abilities cannot be a joyous occasion. It has to hurt. Because if it doesn't hurt, we're back to the Deus ex Machina issue. But if it hurts-- if the reveal causes severe conflict for the character in question and with the people around them, if it breaks them down and reveals new things about them, if the reveal feels like a loss, in the moment when it comes about, rather than a win for the cast... then it might work.

For that to happen, the repressed/extant but unknown powers have to connect to the Upside Down. They have to have had a significant hand in all the pain that our characters have gone through. Possibly via either creating the Upside Down or the shadow monster, or else through some other connection. But the connection has to be there, because the reveal needs to cause fear, pain, and conflict for the characters.

Detour Cont'd: So... Who Is It?

So... if my wild speculation above is in any way accurate, I think it's worth taking a look at our established characters to see who could have done it.

So, Henry was wandering the Upside Down from 1979 onwards, El opened her first gate in that same year, so I suspect that if any of our characters did accidentally create/influence the Upside Down it likely happened starting around this time. In '79 (dangerously assuming my math is correct), Nancy (also Jonathan and Robin) would have been 11-12, and the Party would have been 7-8, making them the primary possibilities. - I think it's fair to assume that if they're doing this, it would be a major character that we've known since s1, so that discounts Robin and Max. - Additionally, given the composition of the final shot of s4, I think it's reasonable to assume that this character would be in that final shot, because they would have a significant role to play in s5. That cuts out Lucas and Dustin as well. - I'll also say that we can cut out El and Will, since their powers are (under this specific interpretation) already accounted for. - That leaves the remaining options as: Nancy, Jonathan, and Mike. - And, I mean... Mike's the one who's in the middle of that final shot, just as much as Will is. Mike's the one who always knows weird random stuff about the Upside Down and about El's powers. Mike's the one whose plans always work out. Mike's the only one who has never managed to land a punch/at least not managed to land a punch in the A plot of a season climax. Mike's the one whose emotions are a total mystery to the audience (outside of those who engage in intense rewatching and analysis to pick it apart lol). And… Mike’s the one who’s always depicted in a trio with El and Will (I know this is love triangle imagery, but it could potentially have a double meaning). - My point being-- if all of my previous reasoning/interpreting is accurate, then Mike is the only character who makes any sense in this role.

Also, just talking about logistics here-- in order to be comprehensible to audience members who are not about to sit down and rewatch the show a million times in order to pick up on subtle clues and hints, there are a few issues that are going to require a decent amount of screen time in order to explain/develop in s5. To my mind, (outside of ship dynamics) those are:

Where is Max? Why can't El find her?

What is Will's connection to the Upside Down? Did the Demogorgon really take Will in s1? Why is Henry/the Mind Flayer so focused on him?

Why is the Upside Down stuck in time/why and how did it start looking like Hawkins?

What the hell is going on in Mike Wheeler's head?

How will everybody react to the Upside Down and its monsters now that they're bound to start becoming common knowledge around Hawkins?

How are they going to deal with the military? What is going to happen to El if her location is compromised? How will this impact the fight against Henry/the Upside Down?

What is the relationship between Henry and the shadow monster/Mind Flayer? Is it possible for the gang to kill/destroy/incapacitate both? How will they do that?

My point is, there's one question on this list that doesn't seem to be connected into the Upside Down plot in any way-- and that's point 4. The question about Mike. Because realistically speaking, Stranger Things has a Mike Wheeler-shaped problem. He's a protagonist every season, and he's literally equally sharing the centre of the screen with Will in the final shot of s4, so if we're getting a Will Byers protagonist moment in s5, I think it's safe to suggest that we're also getting a Mike Wheeler protagonist moment.

But generally speaking, people don't want a Mike Wheeler protagonist moment, because people don't like him. And obviously that's because the underlying issues that he's going through have been hidden from plain view, but, like... you don't do that for no reason. Narratively speaking, you only do that if you're amping up for a big reveal.

And, yes. Mike and Will getting together would absolutely be a massive reveal and I can fully understand why they wouldn't want to spoil it... but. To get people to care about Mike again, and to believe that he "deserves" Will, they need to devote time and narrative space to explaining Mike's emotional state, both regarding his sexuality, and regarding whatever mental health issues he's struggling with. And they could have put more of this in s4! Mike and Will had FOUR heart to hearts, discounting the van scene. They very much could have had Mike express some of his (likely) experiences with depression and/or PTSD, without having to show their hand about his sexuality/feelings for Will. Doing so would have helped the audience have more sympathy for/understanding of Mike, AND would have significantly cut down on the ground they have to cover with his character in s5.

Because... they're going to need to take up a fair amount of time in s5 to show all of the stuff they need to cover with Mike if they actually are intending to follow through with him being queer and also, like, not beloathed by a large swath of the audience, they're going to need to connect his emotional issues to the Upside Down/A plot somehow. Which they can absolutely do! Henry's whole thing is perfect for that. And it worked with Max-- but there's a difference.

Because, with Max, her experiences with Henry/Vecna's curse were used to give the audience new information to help solve the mystery of the season. But we don't need that again. And... sure, Mike could get cursed/attacked and learn something useful in the fight against Henry, in addition to showcasing all the stuff that's going on inside his head, but given that Will's back in town and is already psychically linked with Henry/the Mind Flayer... I mean, it seems more natural to have that dynamic fall to Will?

This is a lot of talking, but my POINT is... they did not have to hold Mike's emotional state so close to their chests. Let's be real-- they could have at least started to outline the idea that Mike might be struggling with mental health issues, and nobody who isn't already reading the writing on the wall for Mike/Will would be jumping to assume it meant he was struggling with any gay feelings. Like, let's be absolutely real here: they could have had Mike outright say "I don't know, it's like you left and all of a sudden I didn't have the energy to do anything all I could do was sit around and miss you" to Will and people would have understood it as "ohhhh he was depressed because he missed El/has trauma about El disappearing on him/leaving him".

So, if we're reading Mike correctly-- if he's struggling with mental health issues and they're putting in all the little clues and hints to it that we're picking up on/that will be obvious on a rewatch after some huge reveal... then whatever he's going through has to tie into the supernatural plot in a big way. And, more than that, it needs to be linked to it in a way that is surprising enough/enough of a twist to warrant all this secrecy about it.

AND (and this is a hill I am prepared to die on)... Will and El are both main characters, but so is Mike. The plot would not have started without Will. The plot would not have started without El. But also... the plot would not have started without Mike. Without Mike things are totally different, because whoever found El instead would not have been the exact combination of nurturing and feral that made s1 Mike hide her in his basement/believe her the instant she implied she even maybe knew how to find Will. And that's just the first thing that he did which unquestionably pushed the plot in the direction it's going. There's a reason he shares centre screen with Will at the end of s4 (after El had her extended closeup because I'm sure she's going to continue having her protagonist moment in s5, AS SHE SHOULD). Mike isn't just a love interest. He's a protagonist in his own right-- this is his coming of age story, just as much as it is Will's and El's. And, while it's entirely possible that they might have a plan that includes him being the only one of the trio without any particular personal connection to the supernatural plot, I do think it's worth considering that, just as is the case for Will and El, it's at least possible that Mike might have a plotline outside of his romantic relationships, and that, as the third protagonist/third leg of the protagonist trio... it's at least possible that said plotline might have direct ties to the supernatural A plot.

(Also, yes, the ending shot does also suggest that Hop, Joyce, Nancy, and Jonathan are also protagonists for s5-- I feel like this tracks with their roles in s1, and I fully expect them to play major roles in s5, but if this is actually a coming of age story, then it's the Party who are, really, the ones spending this whole time coming of age. That's why I'm making the distinction.)

I bring all of this up, because I believe that it lends context to why I think it is possible that Eddie's Vecna actually references/foreshadows Mike, in particular's, s5 role.

Mike as Vecna

So, here's the thing. If Mike did create the Upside Down, or at least the shadow monster, then he (or at least his repressed emotions and/or dark thoughts) is an antagonistic force in the show. That doesn't mean he's bad or evil (Will was an antagonistic force in s2, and he's sort of the exact opposite of bad or evil). Meaning that it would make sense to foreshadow him as an antagonist, even if ultimately he is a protagonist/on the side of the rest of the gang.

Returning to what we know about Vecna from the show, I'd like to combine it with some of the common theories/ideas that I've seen floating around regarding Mike's potential plot/future in s5.

First of all, Eddie's Vecna is shown hiding among the cultists. Mike obviously doesn't have a cult, although, if he is (unintentionally) the cause of all the Upside Down business, he is hiding in plain sight, both to the other characters and to the audience.

^ Bringing back this screenshot for absolutely no reason at all

I would also point out that Mike is the only character, of the viable list (even expanded back out to include Will and El) of those who could even maybe have played the role in creating/influencing the Upside Down, who is also a member of the Hellfire Club. By which I mean, Mike might not actually be in a cult, but Hawkins at large sure thinks he is.

Now, obviously, Mike isn't dead/hasn't been killed by anybody. But everybody is always talking about all of he death flags around Mike coming into s5, and I, at least, am of the opinion that he can't die permanently (for the same reason that Will and El can't perma-die-- all of them are way too self-sacrificial and willing to throw their lives away for everyone else, so killing them would literally just be them... doing what they always do, which is not ideal for a death scene, especially in a show where the death of major characters is used as infrequently as it is in Stranger Things). If he dies and then comes back to life, or at least seems to have died, this might fulfill the "undead" requirement.

Obviously, how the issue of Kas would come up in this storyline, would be much more questionable than in Henry's. If I'm on the right track here, though, I wouldn't really expect us to know at this point, because it would likely come up in s5 anyway. What I will say is that, if I were to speculate about s5... since Mike is the leader of the Party, and Kas was Vecna's lieutenant, if this is the direction they're going, then I would expect one of the Party members (probably not Will or El because I have some... thoughts about them in the context of the Vecna analogy) to play the role. However, I really can't see any of them intentionally killing/betraying Mike, so my best guess is that if this is happening, it's going to be more a thing of Mike self-sacrificing/endangering himself in order to protect one of the Party members, rather than them intentionally/personally striking the blow. That's SUPER speculative, though, and not founded in very much except... Mike's character as a whole. Also, in D&D's lore, all that was left of Vecna after Kas had killed him, besides the Hand and the Eye, was a pile of ashes-- which fits really seamlessly into Mike's narration of his D&D character dying a fiery, self-sacrificial death at the end of Will's campaign.

Eddie's Vecna is a spellcaster/dark wizard, which are terms that would fit anyone, Mike included, in the scenario where they created/significantly influenced the Upside Down/shadow monster.

In terms of Mike's appearance, obviously he does not appear shrivelled and desiccated (though we'll have to see what s5 brings on that front), but I will note that there are a LOT of theories about Mike losing an arm and possibly an eye as well. Additionally, Mike's left eye, in particular, is often shrouded in shadow. I've already written a different post about that, so I won't go too into detail, but you can look at it here.

^ A sample of some of the left eye shadows

If the theories about Mike creating the Upside Down or at least the shadow monster are accurate, then that fulfills the D&D Vecna's backstory of having built a dark empire before his undeath.

In the context of Mike, I also think it's interesting that one of the things D&D's Vecna is known for is his "dark secrets". Like... I mean, we all know Mike is full of secrets. And it's very likely that they're "dark"-- not necessarily in the way that D&D Vecna's secrets are dark, but more so in the way of, like, mental health issues can be very dark when you're living through them. I mean... Max had "dark secrets" this season, too (though, obviously, totally different in nature and context than Mike's), but the narrative difference (outside of all the cool character stuff they were doing with Max-- this is not a Max post so I won't get too into it, but I just want to make it super clear that Max has a LOT of interesting stuff going on in s4 in her own right) is that those came to light, while Mike's stayed hidden.

Also... okay let me just put this here:

(Link to the site I got that from is in the Vecna in D&D section)

"The godlike supremacy they crave". Does that... not sound like Henry? I mentioned Henry turning into a Demogorgon back in the Henry as Vecna section of this post, but... I think I'm just saying that it could legitimately be happening? I don't know. Maybe I'm just being overly enticed by the idea of Henry's hubris making him believe that he's the one in control of the Upside Down/the shadow monster/Mind Flayer when, in reality, the truth is that he's simply blinded to what's happening to him by his own arrogance and ambition.

Anyway... finally, I'll point out that D&D's Vecna is also known for his "formidable temper". And, like... I just... okay, so a lot of characters in Stranger Things have tempers and anger issues. But the thing with Mike's is that it's portrayed... kind of differently? Like, if you push Jonathan or Steve hard enough on the right pressure points, they'll snap and physically fight you (we've seen it), and El's basically the same except that she generally has the psychic force to skip the fight and simply toss you aside like a ragdoll. If you push Will or Nancy or Hopper hard enough on the right pressure points, they'll get sarcastic and frustrated and snippy (and depending on who you are, Hopper and maybe also Nancy might also punch you lbr-- here's hoping for Nancy punching someone out in s5). But Mike?

a) Mike's kind of constantly on the verge of getting mad (except, typically, when he's alone with Will and usually also El pre-s4). He's annoyed by everything, prickly towards basically everyone unless he knows them very well, and easily upset if he doesn't get his way/doesn't feel consulted about what's happening. None of which erases his positive qualities, and all of which are explainable, but it's undeniable that there's an angry element to his character.

b) When Mike does actually get properly mad, he shoots to kill. "What is WRONG with you?" "It's not MY fault you don't like girls!" "She didn't LOOK fine...", like. Every season, he says something so harsh it leaves the other person/people speechless. And that's NOT to say that Mike's a bad kid. He's a child who has suffered a lot of trauma, and who was already prone to fits of annoyance before all the bad stuff started happening. Of course he lashes out. AND it does seem like he's making an attempt to improve especially as of s4 (probably because the rain fight really scared him tbh). I'm not saying he's bad, I'm just saying that one of his flaws, which he does seem to be working on, is that he has a tendency to get angry and say things that he might mean in the moment, but which are more hurtful than he wants them to be.

c) I find the scene where Mike breaks down in Hopper's arms in s2 incredibly telling. Obviously, this was Mike under extreme circumstances. I'm not suggesting that level of rage and pain is Mike's typical baseline level. But what I am saying is... that breakdown did not develop overnight. That was something Mike was building towards since s1e1. And then he lets it out with fists and screams and sobs. And then he boxes it away and gets back to plotting how to stop the Mind Flayer and save Will like nothing happened. And nobody brings it up ever again (I mean... let's be honest... the only person who WOULD 100% have brought it up later was passed out in a drug-induced nap at the time, so it's very likely that Will doesn't know about that breakdown... just like he probably doesn't know about the quarry). And just like every other character, Mike keeps getting traumatized on top of all the pain that caused that original breakdown. And...

I don't know. I guess I'm just saying that it's undeniable that Mike has a temper, though he's not the only character who does. And that Mike's inevitable s5 breakdown will probably involve rage as well as tears. Does Mike have a "formidable and hideous temper"? I don't know. I think that sort of depends on who is judging. I am pretty sure that Mike thinks he does, though.

And... lastly... this is just a parallel that I thought was interesting, which probably doesn't mean anything, probably it's just a coincidence, but I'm already deep enough into this analysis that I've lost my mind so...

^ s1 Mike covers his left eye while indicating/faking a headache

^ s4 Eddie covers his left eye with an upside down hand to mimic being Vecna

The Eye and Hand of Vecna in This Context

Something that has been bothering me is this:

Mike, Will, and El are obviously paralleled to two trios from other franchises, with Will and El, respectively, as the "head"/primary character in the trio.

They're paralleled to Harry/Ron/Hermione (no, I don't like talking about HP parallels very much because //gestures at everything about JKR with my very trans hands, but I don't think that discomfort on my end negates the obvious parallels), with Will generally functioning as Harry (although I'm aware that Will and Mike get the Ron/Hermione treatment in the airport), with everything to do with his connection with Henry.

They're also paralleled to Luke/Leia/Han, with El generally functioning as Luke.

So, the thing that has been bothering me is: if Mike is just as much a protagonist as Will and El are, and not just a romantic interest for the two of them, why isn't there also a trio in which Mike gets to play the leading role? And, uh... so... I have a thought about that, but it requires me to dig a bit deeper into the lore behind the artifacts left after Kas (nominally) killed Vecna in D&D lore: the Hand and the Eye.

The Hand of Vecna:

The Eye of Vecna:

(link to the site where I took these screenshots from is included in the section about Vecna in D&D)

So... if (and I'm very aware that it's a big if) Mike is going to turn out to have been foreshadowed by Eddie's Vecna, then I believe that this is the trio he's at the head of. Vecna/Eye of Vecna/Hand of Vecna, with El as the Hand and Will as the Eye.

I mean, the Hand's thing is strength (El's telekinesis lends strength to her/anybody she is helping use it for-- ie. flipping the car in s3, where flipping it back over requires multiple people and Mike's lever system). It improves attacks during combat (again... El's telekinesis sort of makes her the gang's heavy hitter). It can apparently also freeze creatures (we see El do this at least twice in s1-- she freezes Troy in place after he tries to attack Mike, and freezes the Demogorgon in place when it's trying to attack the Party). And it can be used to cast a number of different spells including Teleport (El can't exactly teleport, but she can use the mind void to travel anywhere a given person is in her mind) and some necromantic spells.

Interestingly, although they're not spells the Hand can provide according to screenshot above, bringing back the dead, like El does to Max at the end of s4, can be done using a necromantic spell in D&D.

And the Eye... I mean. Truesight is right there. But in general, it's a lot about being able to see through just about everything (including time, which is pretty interesting), with fits pretty well with Will as the spy/Will as the sensor of all things Upside Down. The spells it can cast are pretty interesting as well, and do make me wonder if the fact that Will was (or possibly still ever so slightly is?) part of the hivemind might give him some ability to control what the hivemind does? I don't know, but it's a thought.

Also, the effect of using the Eye is really interesting, given the fact that Will was infected by the shadow monster/Mind Flayer right at the moment when he tried to order it to "go away" (failed Dominate Monster?), and then the whole possession got worse/his soul was almost consumed leaving him essentially a puppet under the control of the shadow monster/Mind Flayer after he attempted to spy back (possibly failed Clairvoyance?). Also, fun fact: Disintegrate causes a "thin green ray" to "spring from your finger" in order to turn a target to dust. I can't help but think about Will the Wise's green fireballs.

I don't know… I just think the parallels are worth thinking about.

To be 100% clear, I'm not saying that Will and El's powers/abilities come from Mike (just like in the HP parallel, Will paralleling Harry/the Chosen One doesn't take away from El or Mike's positions as co-protagonists with him, or in the SW parallel, El paralleling Luke doesn't mean that she's the only protagonist/Chosen One in ST). Nor am I suggesting that Mike in any way owns Will or El. I'm only pointing out that there are some striking similarities between their powers/experiences and the effects of Hand and Eye in D&D, so if the theories about Mike creating the Upside Down/shadow monster are correct, then... those similarities are interesting.

(But, hey, I mean, fun fact-- if this is actually the intended read, then all three are paralleling powerful wizards in popular culture, which is fun.)

Also also... something I've always found super weird is that Will's eyes go brown when he's possessed, never black. Which... is odd, because black is traditional for possessions, and it would look more unnatural, it would align more with the shadow monster's colours, and it would be a really clear signal to the audience that there's something wrong with the colour of his eyes because as it stands, unless you already know that Will has hazel eyes, nothing seems off (especially because the characters never mention the change either). I mean, the shadow monster is black/dark grey. Henry's eyes are blue and never go darker than that. But Mike's eyes are just about that same shade of brown that Will's were when they were at their darkest...

I mean, if nothing else, Mike as Vecna and Will and El as the Eye and Hand would explain why Mike keeps losing (being cut off from) both of them.

And, I mean... we all know Will tends to hang out on Mike's left, but so does El (it's just less obvious with El, because she also has a motif of facing Mike head on). Largely (though not always-- if there's a true pattern, I can't tell what it is), when they're not in this alignment is when they're disagreeing/not on the same page/not pretending to be on the same page with Mike. I mean... you know. Something something, Vecna's left hand and left eye?

No, Seriously, Will and El are So Often on Mike's Left

^ Just a sample of the relevant shots

The Good News

Now that I've gotten through all of this, I do want to say that, even if Eddie's Vecna is foreshadowing something about Mike's role in the supernatural plot of s5, I don't believe they're setting him up to be a true villain. Like... if Mike did actually create the Upside Down/the shadow monster/in some way impact them, I very much do not believe that he is aware of it as of s4, nor do I believe that he would ever intentionally hurt any of the people that the Upside Down has tormented all these years. Well, except himself [gunshot]

Obviously he would be absolutely ripped open if he learned any of what happened was in any way his fault. He'd be absolutely gutted. If you're a "Mike needs to have a sobbing, screaming breakdown in s5" kind of person, man would you get your wish and then some.

My point is, even if they're setting up a twist where Mike('s repressed emotions) have been an antagonistic force all along, I very much do not believe that Mike is being set up as an antagonist, in his own right.

This is where I'm going to bring it back to the fact that we don't actually know what Dustin or Erica were rolling to do. Most likely, in the game itself, they were rolling for various attacks. But we don't hear that. And we don't actually hear Eddie ever say that Vecna was killed, it's just implied from the context of the scene. Which to me means that the ending is not set in even analogous stone. If Vecna does foreshadow Mike's role in the supernatural plot, then all we know is that an Eleven alone can't defeat/solve whatever's going wrong with him, but a twenty (whatever is defined as a twenty) can.

By which I mean, I don't think Mike has to die in the end in order to fit with the analogy.

Also! I think it's really important that Eddie's D&D session is the only one that we see Mike participating in, where he doesn't do any active narrating. Obviously he narrates for the Demogorgon and Thessalhydra campaigns. However, he also takes over narrating for Will's campaign, when he decides to light a fire and sacrifice himself to destroy the Juju hoard.

In Eddie's campaign, though, he follows along. His PC 0's out (which could reference a future physical injury, or an inability on his part to keep fighting for some other reason), and they call a time out to discuss. During that conversation, Dustin specifically asks Mike for his opinion on what they should do (which I have some Thoughts about in the broader context of Dustin's characterization in s4, but those are so wildly outside the bounds of this post-- I'll make a different post later), and Mike really does act like a good leader. He asks Dustin and Erica for context on their HP, and assesses that if they keep fighting it will be difficult, but in the end he tells them that the call is up to them, because their characters are the only ones left on the battle field. That's all he says about the game. And I think the fact that all he says is that the fight will be "difficult" is really good news, because it means that the ending is more open.

Finally, it's possible that if Mike is actually the person being foreshadowed by the use of Vecna in Eddie's campaign, and if Will and El are intentionally paralleled to the Eye and the Hand respectively, then Mike's lost hand/eye signals may not necessarily literally mean that he's going to lose his body parts, but rather that he's going to lose or feel like he's lost both Will and El one more time before everything is over.

The Bad News

IF any of this is correct-- specifically, IF Mike did create the shadow monster or the Upside Down or even just influenced it in some way... even if Henry was somehow exercising power over it to make it more dangerous than necessary... I'm just not convinced that everybody would be able to forgive him.

I mean... Will, obviously would. That's kind of a foregone conclusion, especially since at least in the scenario I'm speculating about, none of what happened would be anything Mike knew he was in any way complicit in until after the fact.

I also think El would probably be able to understand pretty quickly given that she knows what it's like to do something without knowing you can do it, and to have to come to terms with the fact that others have suffered as a result. That being said, if we DO get Mike in the scenario I've been outlining, and then we DON'T get a parallel to the s1 "I'm the monster" "no you're not the monster-- you saved me" scene, except with Mike saying that he's the monster, and El assuring him that he's not because there's no such thing as being a monster or a superhero, but he was her first ever friend so she could never consider him a monster? I'll sue.

A lot of the others I'm way more up in the air about, because I really think it would come down to a lot of context in how it was portrayed, whether the others could manage to get into a somewhat normal groove with him ever again (though I highly doubt they'd have the Party end the show broken up, so I suspect they, at least, would find a way to come to terms with what happened).

But really... it's Nancy that concerns me? In literally any scenario where Mike might have had ANYTHING to do with the Upside Down in any capacity outside of what we've explicitly seen in the show. Whether he knew what he was doing or not. Whether Henry was the one orchestrating things in s1-s4/presumably at least early s5 or not. I just...

I can see a path where she could forgive him, right? Though I'm really worried that's a path where she would forgive him and take all that blame and put it onto herself because he was he little brother and she didn't notice.

But I just... I don't know.

I just know how horribly she's raked herself over the coals over Barb's death ever since s1, and I just worry about whether she would be able to accept that, in the scenario I've been outlining, Mike didn't actually mean to do anything/couldn't actually have stopped it because he didn't know it was happening. Because I suspect that in order for Nancy to get to that place, she'd have to confront the fact that SHE isn't at fault for what happened to Barb, either. That she did not do anything wrong (at least, not wrong enough that she deserves to be still agonizing over it four years later) by telling Barb to go home that night. That there was no way Nancy could have known that something bad was happening to Barb, and that the fact that she didn't stop what was happening BECAUSE SHE DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS ANYTHING FOR HER TO STOP, doesn't mean she's in any way at fault.

And... I REALLY hope we're going to get to see Nancy confronting that head on in s5. But it just.... concerns me in the context of these theories about Mike's potential supernatural role.

[overwatch-does-stuff]

I was rereading your overwatch 2 speculation post when I saw that you said you can write a whole post about Widowmaker’s redemption through death. I would like to see this post please, for you and I have very different ideas about her redemption.

Thanks for the ask!

First off, just because I think it'll happen doesn't mean I agree with it.

To put my thoughts very, very simply: Widowmaker has done too much on-screen bad to ever be redeemed the proper way by Blizzard. There's a concept in storytelling called "character karma" which describes how to keep an audience satisfied by how characters act. It's a very basic concept: characters who do good things get rewarded, and characters who do bad things get punished. Generally, most stories that aren't explicit tragedies ensure that a character's karma gets appropriately balanced by the end of the story.

(There's a whole list of possible exceptions to this rule, of course, but please do consider: when was the last time you saw a villain win? Even if they win in the short term, they usually don't in the long term. Also keep in mind that Overwatch as a narrative (as its tone has been established so far) is not a tragedy. There are tragic characters, of course, but the overall story does not have a downward spiral. We as the audience know that Talon will be stopped at the end of Overwatch 2. I expect that I do not need to elaborate as to why, because we'd be here all week and I'd have to bring up the MCU.)

Okay, now back to Widowmaker- why do I think she won't get a redemption? Because she is Overwatch's most despicable villain. Hear me out.

She's Overwatch's most despicable because no other character in this franchise has killed an innocent person on-screen. By "on-screen", I mean depicted in a visual format- animated shorts and custscenes taking priority, then comics, then current-timeline short stories. And when we look at canon, on-screen killings, we actually have very few: we have Mondatta, and we have the mob boss that Reyes killed in Retribution. On-screen killings score the highest on the "bad guy" karma scale because they're tangible and immediate. They represent a character's current actions and they're things that directly impact the audience, too, who is invested in this current world and characters. Actions in the backstory and lore don't have the same punch for this reason.

The next step down on the "bad guy" karma scale is backstory/lore killing and torture, though- Doomfist, arguably the main villain of Overwatch, is hanging out right here with an unspecified number of murders at Numbani Airport, but the fact that the audience isn't shown it lessens the oomph. Hanzo would be here if Genji stayed dead, but given that he's not it significantly lessens the "bad guy"-ness of it. Similarly, I'd place Moira here, too, because we know she did the fucked up things to Reaper, Widowmaker, and (partially) Sigma, but we're only briefly shown Reaper's torture in her introduction short and that's it.

Given how much of a narrative and moral focus was put on Mondatta's assassination. . . I just don't think it's something that Widowmaker will be able to get away with. "Redemption" in storytelling is inherently a reward, and Widowmaker just doesn't have the character karma to justify that kind of reward, and I doubt Overwatch 2 will dedicate the screentime to it. Even though we as the audience know that she's a victim, Overwatch's narrative so far isn't painting her as someone who can be saved, not after she's crossed that moral event horizon.

However, however, however, it does leave one option- redemption by death. Redemption by death is a classic one because a heroic sacrifice does wonders to balance out character karma. It's quick, it's easy, it's free, acknowledging her tragic backstory while also making it so that they don't have to put the work in and ask the hard questions of "how would this character make up for what they've done?"

TL;DR: Because Storytelling Reasons, Blizzard isn't gonna spend the time to try and properly redeem her and will instead have her die for her sins.