#my opinion you don't have to agree with this AT ALL

[undead-moth]

I'm an English Composition teacher at a university, and I completely prohibit the use of generative AI/LLMs in my class. I'm adamantly opposed to their use, so don't get me wrong when I say that this study is bunk science and should not be taken seriously.

Methodology

The study relies on self-reporting. All of their data is based on surveys done by participants, who were asked to record when they perceived themselves to be critically thinking. Even setting aside that any of the participants could have lied, how objectively can they assess themselves? Worse yet, what does their perception prove? It's not only unreliable, it also doesn't prove anything.

2. Meaningless units of measurement

"Critical thinking" is not, and can't be, a factually defined concept. Whether or not someone is critically thinking, or capable of critically thinking, is essentially a matter of generally agreed-upon opinion.

As you can see here, they are still using the word "perceived" because there is no other option. It is impossible to quantify someone's critical thinking.

Quality is also a matter of perception.

They even admit in their limitations section that this caused problems while surveying participants and may have contaminated their data. Some of their participants didn't understand that just because they were able to do something easily, or quickly, does not mean they were able to do so because they were critically thinking with ease, which goes back to my first point. I doubt this is the only example of participant misunderstandings. This is, frankly, beyond a limitation. Even if everything else about this study was airtight, this would make their results meaningless anyway. If your participants have a different understanding of what critical thinking is, or what it means to critically think than you do, and they are providing your data, you can't meaningfully conclude anything from the data.

3. Recruitment

The way they selected participants was by recruiting people who regularly use generative AI/LLMs. Not only does this mean that there's no control, but we also don't know anything else about these participants that may be affecting their preexisting critical thinking skills. This contributes to there being no legitimate way of speculating if generative AI/LLMs is influencing how much or how little they're using critical thinking when they use generative AI/LLMs and when they're not.

4. This study proves nothing, but more importantly, this study wasn't even on what they are claiming it was on.

The highlighted portion here is quoted by the 404 Media article above, and it is taken out of context. In the introduction, they explain that an "overreliance" on any form of automation has historically been theorized to have the potential to lead to "atrophy."

First of all, even if this is true, this study didn't follow these participants over time, nor were they required to use generative AI/LLMs exclusively for every daily situation that might require critical thinking, which would be the only way to ensure "overreliance" and the only way to determine if "overreliance" led to "atrophy."

They are hypothesizing that using generative AI/LLMs could potentially "atrophy" critical thinking skills in the event someone "overrelies" on it.

They even compare "overreliance" on generative AI/LLMs to writing, printing, calculators, and the internet - none of which have been proven to "atrophy" critical thinking skills and given that the alternative to generative AI/LLMs is literally writing, which they implicitly argue doesn't atrophy critical thinking skills, I think it's fair to say their hypothesizing here isn't objective.

Plus:

"Overreliance" has the same issue "critical thinking" has. It's a matter of generally agreed-upon opinion. How do you measure overreliance? What constitutes overreliance? Based on the definition above, isn't it possible for people to accept incorrect recommendations or make errors of commission while not "overrelying"? If so - and it is so - how can you ever know if "overreliance" is truly at fault, or even at play?

This also doesn't account for the fact that many other daily situations require critical thinking skills, and many other daily situations don't require critical thinking skills. Even if someone became "overreliant" on generative AI/LLMs, that would not mean they aren't critically thinking regularly in other daily situations, including daily situations that require the exact same critical thinking skills generative AI/LLMs are hypothetically enabling people not to use. If someone uses generative AI/LLMs regularly, does that stop them from reading in their free time? No, obviously not. So...couldn't that mean that even if someone "overrelied" on generative AI/LLMs, that they could still prevent "atrophy" elsewhere in their life? There's also the issue that even if generative AI/LLMs enables users not to critically think, that really doesn't in any way prove that will lead to "atrophy." I would argue that folding laundry doesn't require critical thought, and most people fold laundry regularly - yet it has never led to "atrophy." Doing something that doesn't require critical thinking regularly doesn't by default lead to an inability to critically think, especially if someone is critically thinking in other areas of life - which, most people, whether it seems like it or not, are, and every day.

And this is important to stress entirely because they are arguing that only by becoming "overreliant" on generative AI/LLMs could critical thinking skills "atrophy." They are not, even hypothetically, arguing that just using generative AI/LLMs itself "atrophies" critical thinking skills, which makes Emanuel Maiberg's (author of this 404 Media article) choice in title outright negligent misinformation.

There is no current evidence that using generative AI/LLMs "atrophies" critical thinking. There is some - unprovable - evidence - based on self-reported surveys - that generative AI/LLMs might - because confounding variables are not accounted for - enable someone to do work that typically requires critical thinking without having to critically think - no different than a calculator.

I am not even remotely of the opinion that generative AI/LLM use is comparable to the calculator, but that does not change the fact that all this study proved is that generative AI/LLMs might not, in all instances, require users to critically think, and that does not prove anything.

Here they pretty much admit that it is entirely hypothetical that using generative AI/LLMs could lead to "atrophy." They argue that anyone who doesn't exercise their critical thinking skills regularly can lose them. (This, by the way, we already knew.) They reason that it's possible someone who "overrelies" on using generative AI/LLMs might not be exercising their critical thinking skills regularly, and therefore it could enable the "atrophying" of their critical thinking skills.

This reasoning relies on ignoring confounding variables, which makes it unsound.

Additionally, even if what they are hypothesizing could possibly happen, it would not mean there is anything innately about generative AI/LLMs that causes critical thinking "atrophy." It would only mean that someone who never exercises their critical thinking skills loses them, which we already knew, and was true long before generative AI/LLMs could arguably help enable - not cause - enable people to lose critical thinking skills.

I'll end this firstly by saying that those of us, myself included, who have an ethical objection, and a practical objection to generative AI/LLMs, (I personally still believe that generative AI/LLMs make it so that someone who hasn't yet developed certain critical thinking skills can avoid ever having to develop them, which is I suppose arguably an adjacent line of thinking to this study) firstly need to keep an eye out for their own confirmation bias - I know how tantalizing the title of that 404 Media article is. I know when we see a title like that, we feel very vindicated in our stance - but we have to be vigilant. We have rational and justified objections to generative AI/LLMs that I believe will in time be scientifically and/or factually reported - but this study isn't one, and many won't be. We can't fall prey to misinformation or anti-scientific thought just because it says what we want to hear.

Secondly, I would encourage everyone whose first thought when they read that title was vindication to consider that the people who conducted this study, consciously or unconsciously, may have an ulterior motive for arguing that generative AI/LLMs cause critical thinking "atrophy." Science is never conducted, nor accepted, in a social vacuum, and I would honestly bet that virtually all studies aiming to prove, or worse, claiming to prove - as this one does - that critical thinking "atrophy" exists, are trying to create a scientifically-supported case for "degeneracy," meant to justify eugenics. This is also something we need to be vigilant about.

One of the common mistakes I see for people relying on "AI" (LLMs and image generators) is that they think the AI they're interacting with is capable of thought and reason. It's not. This is why using AI to write essays or answer questions is a really bad idea because it's not doing so in any meaningful or thoughtful way. All it's doing is producing the statistically most likely expected output to the input.

This is why you can ask ChatGPT "is mayonnaise a palindrome?" and it will respond "No it's not." but then you ask "Are you sure? I think it is" and it will respond "Actually it is! Mayonnaise is spelled the same backward as it is forward"

All it's doing is trying to sound like it's providing a correct answer. It doesn't actually know what a palindrome is even if it has a function capable of checking for palindromes (it doesn't). It's not "Artificial Intelligence" by any meaning of the term, it's just called AI because that's a discipline of programming. It doesn't inherently mean it has intelligence.

So if you use an AI and expect it to make something that's been made with careful thought or consideration, you're gonna get fucked over. It's not even a quality issue. It just can't consistently produce things of value because there's no understanding there. It doesn't "know" because it can't "know".

[crimsonender]

A small but important announcement/update

Hi guys. As you may have known about three months ago I got into a public argument with Youtuber and music creator Patricia Taxxon. It was messy and angry and there was a lot of interpersonal conflict and issues involved. I made two videos relating to this because I believed that Taxxon posed an active threat to vulnerable people.

My feelings, right now, are a lot more complicated. I have in hindsight, developed some nuance regarding the situation. I am not renouncing Jules Hyde, or his feelings regarding their interpersonal conflict. But, I think that is largely none of my business and did not warrant making a video that amounted to a a massive callout.

I do not think it was the right thing to do. This goes beyond what happened between myself and Orchard, someone who I approached as a critic that was examining her creative works and has proven over and over again to be callous, using thought-stopping techniques and regressive tactics to control her fans, beyond just having skeletons in her closet. Those skeletons are not what drew me to Orchard nor why I criticized her to begin with.

Taking this argument off of Tumblr and onto Youtube was my biggest mistake in all of this. However, this goes beyond that.

I tend to afford people a lot of grace, at least when they're my friends. I have afforded absolutely none of that grace to Taxxon.

I would also like to acknowledge, of the troubling actions she has taken, all of these happened when she was very young. A person I would still consider a kid. That doesn't mean those actions were okay, but it does mean she should be given a chance to heal and grow and hope that she will never do something like that again. To my knowledge there is no proof of any tangible wrongdoings since she was young, or at least, none of the contentious nature in which I discussed on my video.

I do not agree with many of Taxxon's opinions. I continue to maintain that you should have strict boundaries with anyone you meet on the internet, including your favourite Youtubers and Artists. I think some of the things she has said in the past and the present disturb and make me uncomfortable. I have been asking myself "does this warrant a Youtube stream calling her out and the fuss I kicked up?"

The answer I keep coming back to is "no." Being uncomfortable is not the same as being hurt. I don't have to like what she said. I can even argue against that rhetoric and idea. That is the nature of the internet. But what I did and what I attempted are far too close to "predator hunting" for me to continue to let it stand.

I have spoken to several people that were involved in my side of things and have alluded to these things to them in private. But for pretty much everyone this is the first time I am revealing this: I reached out to Taxxon for a private conversation, over Bluesky. (She has me blocked on tumblr, so this could be considered block evading.) She did not ask me to do this nor alluded that she wanted to do this. No one told me to do this. She is aware that I am making this post and I have discussed with her what actions will be taken in the future. I will not show you these messages, not in private, nor in public. If Taxxon chooses to do this, that is her choice and I respect it. I will trust that she won't take me out of context and will present my communication honestly. She has no reason not to. Please keep in mind this situation is still in development.

A few questions I anticipate people asking:

What now? Well, I have unlisted the original stream. The document I used for notes and screenshots will have two changes: I will be altering the text colours and background to be more readable, but will change none of the contents, besides this second change: A note at the top detailing my current stance, along with a link to this post. I will likely be unlisting or potentially privating the second stream I did, or cutting the section covering Taxxon out entirely. My decisions regarding the second video are mixed. The actions I take following all of this have not been strictly ironed out and are currently in development.

So are you and Jules not talking now? No. I also spoke to Jules about much of this. I don't really agree with or like how Taxxon treated Jules but again, this stemmed as a conflict between friends. I also think it is well within Jules right to want to distance himself and his film from Taxxon. I also understand where she's coming from. Largely I think the festival fee issue comes from a misunderstanding and breakdown of communication, and from Taxxon and Jules viewing the project and festival in very different ways from one another.

So do you think Taxxon is innocent? It really doesn't matter what I think. The testimony I heard was from an event that happened back when Taxxon was a kid. To my knowledge, there are no other proven real "victims" of Taxxon. I think she should learn better boundaries and start age gating some of her hornier videos but I don't think that constitutes as ontologically evil in the way I was presenting her.

What about [x person who has been criticizing Taxxon that you have shown to have a friendly relationship with]? I think we all need to chill out a little about the pred hunting shit. I think some of the opinions that have filtered into much of the critcism border on transphobic and are things I would never agree with. I don't think it's constructive and its just getting everyone worked up, to the point we see things that aren't there and recognize patterns that don't really weave together into anything. I can't tell anyone what to do. I can teach, to a general audience, what good boundaries and internet etiquette looks like. I can demonstrate the importance of admitting when you were wrong or made a mistake. I cannot force anyone to do anything. I understand for some of my cohorts and audience that this may be a dealbreaker. I'm sorry I disappointed you. But I am more sorry for allowing my paranoia that made me frame Taxxon not as a person but as a Monster.

I will not be posting about Taxxon and her activities or opinions going forward. I ask that anyone in my Discord and other communities to do the same and not to ask me about her either. What happened here may be part of a larger conversation I will have going forward but for the forseeable future, I will be keeping Taxxon's name out of my mouth.

And finally, to address the trans stuff:

The capacity for someone to perpetuate harm, and the capacity for them to benefit from that harm are not necessarily congruent with one another.

Myself and Patricia are both trans. There are stereotypes about trans men and trans women created by cis people that hurt both of us. The only people that truly benefit from that are cis people. I fell for those stereotypes and perpetuated them in a way that caused Taxxon harm. Trans women are not inherently dangerous just because they have unconventional interests and to not give them the same grace as every other group is transphobic. Taxxon also perpetuated stereotypes about me created by cis people that caused me harm. Trans men deserve empathy and understanding and shutting them out of conversations that affect their ability to live is transphobic. Us hurting each other even if, largely, it was at the hands of our respective audiences, is not constructive. It benefits neither of us. It hurts us and it hurts the community at large.

I hope that Taxxon finds the space to heal and grow. She deserves the grace to have messy relationships and explore things as she figures herself out and finds her place in the world as a young person, without the internet breathing down her neck and demanding her to be held accountable every time she scratches her ass the wrong way. (EDIT: I mean to say, people are criticizing her reactions to movie trailers with the same weight as her contentious behaviour.) I'm sorry for making a mess of things. I'm sorry that I asked Patricia to be the perfect minority. I do not demand nor do I expect forgiveness but it is important to me that my audience understands my position going forward.

I will not be covering this kind of thing in the future. In the past 48 hours two people unconnected to my YT channel recognized me in unrelated spaces. I have to contend with the fact that as I grow as a creator, my words carry more weight. They can damage people in a way that an unknown can't. I don't get the benefit of shouting into the void as I once did. I will go forward interacting with other creators first and foremost as a coworker and a critic, not as a watchdog. Never again. No good can come of it.

Thank you for reading, and feel free to ask me questions in the replies of this post.

EDIT: I've gotten a lot of mixed responses to this post. Please understand that this is not my complete thoughts and I'm still working to present you with something that will hopefully, for all parties, be a more satisfactory end to this. This was an initial break of tension and an announcement that I am currently at this time formulating my thoughts into something cohesive and presentable. Not on the exact time table that I initially planned to start talking about this, but as I said, there is more to come. Thank you for your patience.

[lukolastrong]

I agree that Nic has zero chemistry with Jake and it gives off little brother vibes. I also agree that her chemistry with Luke is electric. They have something special. I'm just not delusional to believe they're in some secret relationship and using Jake and Antonia for PR reasons. They're clearly in relationships with Jake and Antonia. We don't have to like or agree with it, but it's true. It's embarrassing that people are ignoring what's right in front of them. We can ship lukola without being delusional.

I respect your opinion anon, but honestly there’s no more delusion at this point. Did you not watch the SAGs? That was a clear sign there is something between them if it wasn’t already clear. I don’t understand why some of you all are against a pr relationship or act as if it’s a new concept. Hollywood celebs have been doing them for years. Sometimes they don’t make sense but they happen and are for good reasons. My opinion is that since Nic is so private, it’s a way to keep the fandom and GA from digging into the relationship that’s actually happening. Then you have Lukey though who, if he could, shout it from the rooftops. He was so smitten at SAGs, let me just post a reminder how in love this man is

[gothamite-rambler]

Wilson: Those people need to go back to their own country!

Nightwing: Their country is America!

Wilson: How dare you defend them?!

Roxanne (a Romani woman wearing a baby carrier, indifferent): I just wanted to buy apples from the farmer's market.

Nightwing: You're ruining her fruit shopping!

Wilson: She can find fruit in her country!

Roxanne (flatly, accustomed to this rhetoric): I'm from Staten Island. It's not great, but it's part of America.

Nightwing: You don’t have to defend yourself. I believe you.

Roxanne: Aww, thanks! I appreciate it. I’m used to guys like Mr. Wilson. He’s been like this since I moved in with my family.

Nightwing: Yeah, I've had to deal with this guy for decade now.

Wilson: I'm just trying to protect my country from those people!

Roxanne: From my great grandma to my current child we were all literally born in Staten Island!

Wilson: Likely story, I bet you grew up in the circus, you damn carny?

Nightwing (taking offense to that): Hey, the circus is a legitimate home for some people! And even if she were from one, that doesn’t make you better than her.

Roxanne (smiling): That’s right! Again, I’m from Staten Island, which is basically a circus.

Wilson: Why the hell are you defending these people?!

Nightwing (speaking from experience): I defend them because they’re people who don’t deserve hate!

Wilson: You’re wrong!

Nightwing (shouting): IT’S MY OPINION!

Wilson placed a hand on his chest shocked at being yelled at.

Roxanne and her child: …

A lanky Romani man walked over holding two fresh avocados, but unfazed by Nightwing being at a farmer's market. This was the fifth time he visited since dealing with Wilson.

Pete (Roxanne's husband, joining her): I found the avocados, but this seems more exciting.

Roxanne: Oh awesome, these look good too. Wilson, go away.

Wilson: I'm not going anywhere!

Nightwing: I think you should leave, sir. Roxy has asked you nicely to leave her and her family alone. Just leave.

Wilson attempted to protest until he realized how much taller and stronger Nightwing was compared to him and begrudgingly took a step back.

Wilson: Fine, I’ll leave. Hope you're happy you got someone to stick up for you, dirty g—

Nightwing throat-punched the guy with rage in his eyes. Wilson gasped for air, deciding at that point to meekly walk away as well. The couple's baby giggled watching the hobble off. Nightwing sighed, walking.

Nightwing: I gave him a warning and he didn't listen. Ah well.

Roxanne: Hm… Thank you, Nightwing!

Roxanne waved goodbye, holding her little giggling baby's hand as well.

Nightwing (turning slightly): Oh, you’re welcome. Have a good day!

---Later, while Nightwing and Batman are investigating together---

Nightwing (explaining the situation): And he just kept talking and talking. He'd already used the G word before that, and I tried to stay calm. Like… Batman, I really tried.

Batman (agreeing): I believe you, and I don’t blame you.

Nightwing (surprised): See I knew you would say- Hold up, you don't blame me? Are you not mad?

Batman: Nope. You've told me this Wilson guy has been a racist nuisance for years. This was a one-off incident. I'm proud of you for holding back as long as you did. I can't say the same—I would've punched him if he called you that word.

Nightwing: Really? Aww, Batman, that’s so sweet.

Batman: And that was my sentimental side done for the night. Ready?

Nightwing (chuckling): Yeah.

[strangersteddierthings]

This was originally in the tags but then it got so long…. so. All below the read more 'cause it's long and rambley.

I'm deciding that it takes Dustin and Erica all of four minutes in Steve's presence to know something has changed. They don't know what but they're too observant/perceptive/nosy to not notice something. Steve won't tell them because he doesn't burden children with his problems.

They figure out it has to do with Eddie the next time they see Eddie and Robin try to interact and she shuts him down with a bitchiness to rival Steve's. So, they know whatever happened, it happened between Steve and Eddie. They just dont know what.

They (Erica) straight up demand to know what happened between them at the next Hellfire meetup and Eddie, the fool who thinks he's right, launches into his tirade and learns quickly that no one agrees with him. Eddie quickly realizes just how much these kids admire Steve, even Mike who he was so sure would be on HIS side. Even his best friends are strangely quiet. Jeff, Gareth, and Grant don't say anything in defense of Steve, but they don't say anything to back up Eddie, either.

Then we have a time period where Eddie is all but abandoned which doesn't help how he feels about Steve at all. This is all Steve's fault obviously!!!

It is three weeks of the kids skipping out on Hellfire and avoiding Eddie that Steve shows up to Eddie's new place. Eddie doesn't answer the door because he is a petty bitch but Steve plants himself outside the Munson's front door and after two hours, Eddie finally opens the door to demand what Steve wants. Its 90% because Wayne will be home soon and he doesn't want Steve to be here anymore. 10% curious about what Steve will say.

Color him surprised when Steve just says that Eddie can continue to hate him for real but can they at least pretend to be friends so that the kids will quit moping around his house? Because they miss Eddie but are too proud and stubborn to say so and maybe Steve says some self-deprecating things that Eddie thinks is Steve trying to guilt him. Instead of accepting Steve's 'truce' offer, they end up arguing. Or, well, it is a very one-sided argument as Eddie just goes off and Steve just listens.

Once Eddie runs out of steam and breath, Steve just nods and says 'I'll tell them we made up. expect to see me around occasionally because that's the only way they'll believe it' and he leaves.

Eddie is incensed about this because how dare Harrington just decide what's going to happen!? But the next time Hellfire is supposed to happen, Steve shows up again. Bangs on the door until Eddie opens. 'All the kids are at the Wheelers' but you aren't.' and Eddie scowls because why should he go? The kids chose a side and it wasn't his. But Eddie does miss them and he wants to play so he says he'll go and he does. And they play dnd but it's tense, awkward, with everyone except Lucas, Jeff, Gareth, and Grant. Eddie finally stops the game to ask if they even want to be here.

'Of course we want to,' they say but it doesn't change the stilted energy around them.

They play, end on a cliffhanger and a promise to meet up next week. Eddie asks Lucas to stay behind because he's the one acting the most normal so maybe he'll get information from him. And he does. It's just not what he was expecting or wanting to hear. It's so much what he doesn't want to hear, that even Lucas knows it because that's how his sentence starts.

'You're not gonna like it but they've learned something about you that I've known for a long time and it's hard to adjust to.'

Eddie doesn't like being told things about himself, but he bites back his anger and tells Lucas to go on.

Lucas shrugs and tells him 'you're stubborn, kind of a bully, and no one's opinion matters but yours.'

Of course, the words make him angry and it shows on his face. Lucas turns to leave with a final 'way to prove my point'.

Eddie goes home and bitches about it to Wayne who just gives him a Look because Eddie is stubborn and he is opinionated and he's never just listened to and accepted another person's point of view in his life without arguing. Wayne's not sure he believes the 'bully' part but he's old enough and wise enough to know how a kid could come up with the idea of Eddie being a bully, given his nephew's personality.

Not getting the immediate agreement he was seeking from them; he goes to his friends. To Jeff, Gareth, and Grant.

They don't give him the response he wants, either. They were silent last time but not this time. They argue back. Especially Gareth. Gareth, who was a freshman when Steve was a senior and was never witness to a single instance of King Steve, tells Eddie that he can hate Steve all he wants but he needs to quit being delusional about it.

Eddie, quick to anger. Always, always quick to anger, does what he does best and argues. It's back and forth between Gareth and Eddie until Eddie, always needing the last word and arguing to win, makes the argument about Gareth instead of Steve. It's then that Jeff and Grant join in, both backing Gareth because Eddie doesn't get to treat his friends like this.

Eddie doesn't get to treat his friends like they're the system he's fighting against, or the jocks he's mocking, or the bullies he used to protect them from.

It's only after Grant has physically removed Eddie from Gareth's garage that he even registers what happened; that he attacked his friends over his opinion on Steve Harrington. It's time for some serious self-reflection, he thinks, if his opinion of one dude is ruining all his other relationships.

Then time passes. Eddie and Steve can be around each other without any Instances happening. They don't talk, they don't seek each other out, but neither will Eddie now avoid joining in on a conversation just because Steve's already in it. Steve makes bitchy comments around Eddie again but Eddie's now in a place to understand these comments aren't malicious, that Steve only says them to people he's friends with and they always give back what Steve gave.

I don't know how we get to this part but it's Eddie catching Robin making out with a girl and Steve gets between Eddie and the girls, threaten and mean and everything Eddie thought he was as King Steve but it's for all the right reasons; Steve's trying to protect Robin and her girlfriend(?) from Eddie. He thinks Eddie is the threat here.

After stumbling through an explanation of how Eddie's A-Okay with gay people, really, truly, and he'll never tell anyone what he saw, Steve relents, deflates back down to the chill, distant dude he's been since showing up at Eddie's place and forcing their truce.

From there it evolves to Eddie coming out as whatever flavor of queer you want him to be to Robin and she officially comes out to him in return. They become friends, and through that, Eddie finds himself with a strange friendship with Steve. They're friendly and they can all hang out and joke and chill together, but Steve and he still don't do one on one hang outs.

Then the next big revelation comes once it's time for Robin to go to college. Steve is moving with. He's getting an apartment in the same city, and Robin will be in the dorms for the first year with the idea being that she'll live with Steve for the rest of the time in college to not have to pay for lodging.

They have a big going away thing that dwindles down to just Robin, Eddie, and Steve sharing a joint out back of Steve's place and it's then that Steve confesses a secret he's kept for over a year.

'I used to have such a crush on you,' Steve will tell him like it's the easier thing in the world. 'No. That's a lie. I was sure I was in love with you. I tried so hard to get you to even tolerate me because being around you was the best feeling in the world. When you weren't being the biggest dick to me.' Steve says it with a laugh, like it's funny now.

And Eddie supposes it is funny.

'I'm glad we can be friends now.' Steve says.

Eddie's never even apologized for how he acted. For how he treated Steve and the things he said and- Eddie never apologized and Steve forgave him anyway.

And it's soul crushing because Eddie thinks he's in love with Steve and has been for just as long, and if he's just gotten over himself sooner maybe...

All this time, Eddie thinks, he could have had Steve in the exact way he'd refused to let himself hope for.

'Friends. Yeah...' Eddie agrees feebly.

And then Steve is sitting up, and Robin follows his lead, and Eddie can't believe he forgot she was out here, too.

'You can't be serious,' Robin says, squinting down at Eddie. She sounds angry. She looks angry.

'What?' Eddie pretends he doesn't know but he does. His pathetic answer gave away his current crush.

Robin asks Steve to give her a moment to talk to Eddie and Steve complies. Hauls himself from the grass and heads towards the house. Once the sliding glass door is closed, Robin wheels on him.

'You don't get to love him now," Robin spits out. 'Not after what you did. Swallow that shit down and pull yourself together. You don't get to hurt Steve again.'

Eddie frowns, 'like it matters? It's all in the past.'

'If you believe that you're more stupid than I thought. You're not allowed to say shit because if you do Steve will do something stupid like ask you to come with, or worse, he'll stay.'

And that's all I got. IDK if Eddie will say something or if he'll let Steve go.

Oh, oh, oh

Eddie thinking Steve is kind of a good dude, but still holding his biases after Vecna. Oh, the way he looks at Steve is with his nostrils flared and his eyes skeptical. He stomps on Steve's interests because it's just "sportsball talk" and it's "not that important"; and he holds his own interests higher on a pedestal because they're all about "giving voices to the unheard" and "making others feel at home". Having this incredible, unmissable, unavoidable hypocrisy when it comes to Steve Harrington.

He greets him with a mocking, "Harrington," but never a "Steve" or a "Stevie." It's strictly last name basis. Eddie refuses to reach out to him, unless it's truly dire. He refuses to meet-up with Steve for hangouts—even if it's a movie night with everybody or it's an arcade trip with the whole party or a late night diner call. He wants nothing to do with Steve. But he can admire the way Steve calibrates himself with others, saves them time and time again, sticks up for them.

And the real kicker?

Steve is trying to be the best for Eddie. Not for himself. Not for the party. But for Eddie. He's not sure why it matters at all that he has Eddie's seal of approval, but if he doesn't...for some reason, it brings a hard-hitting ache to his chest, a stomach dropping sort of nausea, a burn behind his eyes. It shouldn't matter to him that Eddie won't hug him, won't indulge his interests, won't call him by his name. It really shouldn't.

But he keeps pushing, keeps trying. Calls Eddie, well, Eddie. He asks Dustin for advice, how he could approach, how to appease him. Erica puts on campaigns, just so that Steve can learn how to play; maybe Eddie wouldn't mind Steve teaming along for campaigns, as long as he can play. He's offering rides. He's giving Eddie his monthly free pass at Family Video. He's trying to laugh the hardest at Eddie's jokes, keep silent when he doesn't get something. He bites back on his retorts, on his usual catty playfulness, his jokey assholery—all because Eddie got on the defense and practically snarled at him the last time he tried to joke around with Robin about her failing dates. He pulls back and he keeps himself polite and he smiles when appropriate and he tries to expand his style, his music taste, his movie likes, his nerd vernacular. And he thinks he's doing a good job, pleasing Eddie. Because Eddie doesn't roll his eyes, doesn't snap at him, doesn't sigh at him, doesn't flare his nostrils—none of that.

Until...

Steve does something, he's not sure what. Maybe made a joke at the wrong moment? Argued a little too loudly? Didn't give Eddie what he wants? It had to be something he did. Something wrong.

Because Eddie's all mad at him, beyond pissy, beyond offended. Angry in a way that scares Steve, almost. Red-faced and stomping and big. And then, as the walls begin to close in, just as the floor begins to sink at Steve's feet, just as he's ready for Eddie to just slap him or punch him or knock some screws loose—

"I hate you."

And it's not the same as a punch, but it lands like one anyway. Knocking the wind right out of Steve's sails. He's standing straight one moment, off-kilter and ready to collapse the next.

"You hate me?"

He doesn't even hear the next thing Eddie says, blood rushing to his ears, drowning out the sounds. Because with his back against a wall, in the Wheeler's empty basement (as the kids all went up for some lunch, their D&D stuff strewn about), a sick curl of dread in Steve's stomach, he makes a haunting realization:

Nothing he does will ever be enough for Eddie. No matter the battle they fought. No matter the space they shared, chuckling into each other's ears, telling each other they were better than expectations. No matter the stuff Steve learned, or the way he cleaned Eddie's vest, or the media training he's essentially done to himself. None of it will be enough for Eddie.

Because in Eddie's head?

Steve Harrington is kind of a good guy.

But one act of bravery doesn't immediately erase an image. It doesn't get rid of drilled in biases. Or a well-crafted, initially well-meaning rule set in one's head.

At the end of the day, Steve Harrington was still King Steve. He was still this jockish asshole with a bit of boyish charm.

And Eddie's not a fool, no he isn't (except yes he eventually is), flattery won't work on him this time. All it takes is one moment, one vulnerability, and Steve will be showing his true colors. Any moment now, is what Eddie is constantly telling himself, any moment, the other shoe is going to drop.

He doesn't want to admit it. That Steve is good. That he's funny and charming and smart and wonderful. That, even in his attempt to put distance, Eddie is sort of falling for this version of Steve—supposedly this real version of him.

Again, though, he isn't a fool.

Even if he has a chance.

Because Steve didn't know why it mattered, not initially. But up close, Eddie's angry flaming eyes in front of him, his soft freckles dashing across his face, the thick furrow of his eyebrows—even angry, Steve can see that Eddie is handsome. Even angry, Eddie is everything Steve's wanted. Even angry, Eddie is light. And Steve?

God, Steve's in love.

He wanted the validation because he's in love. But Eddie won't ever know that. Because he apparently hates Steve. And Steve also isn't a fool. There's no point in sticking around if he's only going to make things worse, there's no point in befriending Eddie when he's already made up his mind. There's no point trying to earn a love that's worth half a dime to even his own parents. There's no point.

Maybe the distance is good.

Maybe the distance is just what they needed.

Maybe, just maybe, the friendship was dead in the water before it had the chance to swim.

Steve dashes away from it all, from the Wheeler's, from the party, from their game, from Eddie. What's he gonna do now? He's not sure. Maybe a bouquet of flowers and a well meaning apology would mean something. Maybe some dice and an apology?

But what did he even do? What's he apologizing for?

Maybe it wouldn't mean anything, especially since Eddie seems damn set on refusing to listen.

(Do they make up? I don't know...maybe...you decide.)

(Also...parallels? Me writing parallels? More likely than you think.)

[azaharinflames]

"The issue, to say it bluntly, is that 806 felt like an AU, like some badly written one-shot that did not take into consideration anything that had happened before." - You always make such good points and I love reading your takes on things. Very well said that 8x06 seemed like an AU, and it would be so great if we could all forget about this stupid episode. It was so badly written in general. I still feel sorry for Lou getting blindsided by the breakup as well, and that they had to shoot the breakup scene before 8x05, where he portrayed the doting boyfriend so well.

Hi, Nonnie! This ask is so old, I'm so sorry for taking this long!

First of all, thank you! I'm glad whenever my word vomit makes sense lol.

Listen, I do try to be a bit lenient with this, but it's hard. I know Lou is a grown ass man and a very professional man at that, but my God, did I feel bad for him. Granted, at the end of the day, we simply do not know what happened. We weren't on set with him and we barely got any bts as it is. So we don't know what was said to him, and what he believed. But the feeling we all got based on his immediate interviews post-806 is that he'd been a bit blindsided by the whole thing, which did leave a sour taste in everyone's mouth. Not only did they mistreat Tommy in the series, but they weren't totally good to Lou either. And hey, he said it, and I agree - it's showbiz! But it doesn't mean it doesn't suck, either.

Like you mentioned, it does feel especially cruel to have him shoot that gut-wrenching break-up scene and then have him shoot 805, too. But boy, oh boy, did our boy deliver. He made everyone fall further in love with Tommy, as a character and as Buck's boyfriend (deranged fans notwithstanding), and honestly? I still don't know what the intent was behind 805 if it wasn't for the audience to truly fall in love with him and with the couple and to root for their reconciliation.

Just saying.

But overall, yeah. I fear sounding like a broken record, but 806 is such a bizarre episode overall. I don't know who was in the writers room but... my God. Even Madney's storyline left much to be desired. I think 806 is easily my most disliked episode in the series.

My inbox is open for ranting, venting, giving your opinion (unpopular or popular, I'm happy to receive and discuss both), and even confessions! Make sure to tell me if you do not want your ask posted though <3

Anon is back on btw! I'm a disaster human who turned it off a few weeks ago and forgot to turn it back on hehe

Take care <3

[bwat5-blog]

Let's Chat: Caitlyn Kiramman

**DISCUSSION AND RESPONSE TO ARCANE SO SPOLIER WARNING**

**LONG POST NOT KIDDING**

@xxbrightshadowxx

Happy March Third to you my fellow Arcane fan. It is quite obvious to anyone with a pulse that we are on far opposite ends of the spectrum of the fandom. That being said, you have made a fairly large amount of posts I've considered responding to, and I find this a much cleaner way of responding than all this re-blogging and commenting nonsense.

As it is clearly an issue for you, and I feel quite differently, we are gonna talk Caitlyn Kiramman. And as you identify yourself as "the biggest hater" I feel confident you won't mind a bit of friendly discourse. Since there is no efficient way to respond to multiple posts in one re-blog, each title in bold blue lettering will link directly to your post in question.

Recent Post Regarding Caitlyn Stans

So this of course is your most recent post I believe:

"I think the thing I hate the most about Caitlyn is her stans"

I don't have too much to say here as you are entitled to your opinions and this post is really just that. You don't feel Caitlyn was well executed as a morally grey character, you don't feel Caitlyn fans admit her mistakes, that is all within your rights. Really the only thing I will say is that as a fan of Caitlyn's character and of she and Vi's relationship, it has become increasingly difficult to spend any time discussing her wrong-doing with any detail or nuance, because so much of the rhetoric around her is completely out of control and false.

Comparing Violence In Timebomb VS Violence In Caitvi

So in this post you are comparing your criticism of violence between Ekko and Jinx during their fight on the bridge, against your criticism of violence between Caitlyn and Vi after fight against Jinx & Sevika. Speaking for myself, I am not sure why anyone would be comparing these incidents at all. They are totally different. However, I wanted to point something regarding your approach to this post.

Let's look at the amount of detail and context you include regarding Ekko & Jinx:

"Ekko and Jinx were on opposite sides of a conflict"- You go on to elaborate and explain well.

"Jinx was already known at that time to kill firelights, why would they like eachother? (for sake of honesty you wrote "why would they not" but I feel like the typo and your meaning was very clear, happens to me all the time) And with the situation on the bridge, Jinx killed a lot of enforcers. they were already in a situation of violence".

"They weren't in a romantic relationship".

"They weren't on good terms".

This is well done. You give their current status with each-other, the context for the immediate events that lead them here, a bit of their history and so on. Hardly a deep dive, but I feel like I have a good sense of where Jinx and Ekko are as characters in relation to each other.

Now let's look at your depiction of the leadup to the incident between Caitlyn & Vi:

"They kiss which basically establishes they like each other a lot"

"They were on good terms with each-other and were allies".

"They were working together to take down Jinx".

Okay all good so far I agree to each point even if we are not discussing of the complexity of what is going on between them. I cannot disagree with any of these points. But. Now we get into your list of circumstances leading to Caitlyn hitting Vi:

"Vi stops Caitlyn from shooting at Jinx when there was a moving child on top of her because shooting a weapon when there is a child nearby especially if said shooter is not in the best mindset is not a good idea".

"They (Sevika, Caitlyn and Isha) escape". (Clearly you meant Jinx, no harm no foul)

"Caitlyn insults Vi by saying she's just like the rest of Zaun and isn't different (which is also very ignorant by implying that the norm is bad and evil Zaunites and Vi is some exception to this norm) also saying it's her (Jinx) blood in your veins".

"She walks away and Vi grabs Caitlyn and asks why are you the one acting like her".

"Eight seconds pass before Caitlyn hits Vi in the stomach with her gun, before leaving her alone".

You then give your wrap-up comments regarding the incident:

Recap that they were on good terms and kissed before the fight

"The Violence had already wound down"- You elaborate on Jinx and friends already being gone and that it was no longer life or death.

You make a point showing Vi wasn't going to hit Caitlyn, elaborating that it was not a fight, but assault

"The show never acknowledges this"

"Caitlyn never apologizes for hitting Vi or leaving her. They just move straight to sex"

RESPONSE:

Alrighty. so in summary, you have presented the incident between Caitlyn and Vi as something like this-

A happy couple working together to catch Jinx get into a fight with Jinx and Sevika. Vi stops Caitlyn from shooting because it endangered a kid. So Caitlyn insults Vi, shows anti-zaun prejudice, then assaults Vi for no reason.

There are several things I'd say matter regarding this incident going into it that you did not mention. And while their exclusion does paint Caitlyn as a mean and spoiled rich girl who assaulted Vi for not getting what she wanted, it is incorrect in its entirety.

Caitlyn's Mental State-

I feel it is only reasonable to consider the impact of the long and unmentioned list of violent trauma Caitlyn has experienced over a very short period leading to this incident. After all, when we discuss the incident and its aftermath how could such things not matter? To that end, fortunately I recently prepared a time-stamped list of the relevant information on another post that covers all of the traumatic incidents needed-

Lured along with several other Enforcers to a burning building with a fake child's voice by Jinx shortly before she blows it up. She is the only survivor: S1 E4 13:29- Sequence begins

Shoots Sevika repeatedly to save Vi's life. More than likely the first time she has ever discharged her weapon at a living person. It doesn't matter the reason or justification, violence impacts you emotionally. S1 E5 5:28- Sequence begins

Survives escaping Silco and his addict/goons deep in the undercity including dodging a collapsing building. S1 E6 13:16- Sequence begins

Meets Jinx for the first time. Has weapon pointed at her. Then survives fight with Firelights. S1 E6 7:05- Sequence begins

Leader of The Enforcers shoots Ekko, and is about to shoot her while several of her peers stand and watch. Shortly after Jinx blows up the bridge, killing almost everyone, then attacks Caitlyn & Vi both intentionally trying to kill them.S1 E7 10:41- Sequence begins

Kidnapped by Jinx from the shower of her childhood home. She is nude at the time. At some point Jinx makes her dress in Enforcer uniform. S1 E8 4:35- Sequence begins *It seems like recent sources from the artbook confirm Jinx held Caitlyn for an entire day but I don't have that in front of me to confirm so we can call it speculation*

She is held bound and gagged and forced to participate in Jinx's Dinner Party: S1 E9 12:55- Sequence begins

- Listens to Jinx try and convince Vi to murder her - Manages to get free and has a gun on Jinx. Spares her at Vi's urging and gets knocked out - Jinx kills Caitlyn's mother, two other councilors, maims 2 others, and destroys the council chamber

8. Survives attack on her mother and other councilor's memorial by Zaun: S2 E1 16:26- Sequence begins

9. Survives operation of Task Force into Zaun: S2 E3 beginning of episode:

Now I know what you are probably thinking. But As I said earlier we need to remember that violence leaves a mark on you. We aren't talking fault or any of that right now. I'm just talking what state of mind is she in. So I'm sure reasonably you can see how at the very least a few days of urban combat would be raising her stress, aggression, fear and all of that.

10. Survives events of Ventilation chamber: S2 E3 18:51 sequence begins

- Survives fight with Sevika - After holding her shot for Vi the first time, Vi blocks her shot the second time and she is denied what she sees as justice (again, just suspend judgement and try to only think of impact on her state of mind)

That, is a tremendous amount of violence and death in a relatively short amount of time. Now, I don't know about you. But to me, that all seems like it may impact a persons behavior and decision making until they have time to heal and to grieve properly.

Conclusion- Mentally and emotionally Caitlyn is totally destroyed having had no time or opportunity to heal from a long series of violent, destabilizing, and immensely traumatic events.

Caitlyn & Jinx-

So the last list was more comprehensive, but we also need to discuss Caitlyn & Jinx. Why? I mean Jinx is what this all boils down to. She's the monster in Caitlyn's mind. She discusses it with Jayce, and we see it when the strike team attacks the arcade and Caitlyn shoots at what she thinks is Jinx in a wide-eyed and manic state. I'm not going to re-list everything but just think about it.

Jinx has almost killed Caitlyn repeatedly, she killed several Enforcers Caitlyn knew as people. She abducted Caitlyn naked from her home. Caitlyn spared her and Jinx killed her mother. Hate Caitlyn, call her every name in the book, label her anything you please. But if you are discussing and acting in good faith, these facts are not in dispute.

Conclusion- Caitlyn is going into this facing down someone she is very likely terrified of, and hates with all of her heart.

Caitlyn & Vi-

As you correctly point out Caitlyn and Vi are romantically linked and working together in their pursuit of Jinx. However, there is some helpful context when analyzing this situation I think should be considered:

Jinx is Vi's little sister.

Caitlyn had Jinx at gun point and did not fire because Vi begged her. Then Jinx killed her mother.

Caitlyn asked Vi to wear the enforcer badge being honest about her fear, and Vi said yes willingly. But the Enforcers still killed Vi's parents.

Before their first kiss that you mention, we see Caitlyn being uncharacteristically aggressive with an unarmed Heenot. It is bad enough to the point that Vi takes her aside and after asking to dismiss the other team members, tearfully asks Caitlyn to promise she won't change.

Vi tells to Caitlyn she is ready for it all to end, and tells Caitlyn to take the shot if she gets the chance.

Conclusion- Caitlyn and Vi go after Jinx with the both of them knowing Vi begged Caitlyn to show mercy and now Caitlyn's mother is dead, and that Vi is wearing the badge of her parents killers to try and make things right. Caitlyn is clearly losing herself to the violence and anger of everything going on, and before the confrontation Vi tells Caitlyn she knows it has to end. Not exactly simple or casual.

The Incident Itself:

So the fight goes down, and as you said it eventually comes down to Caitlyn demanding that Vi move while Vi refused to do so due to the danger to Isha. You do make a point of mentioning the shooter (Caitlyn) not being in the best mental state (which I think we have established is like saying its a tad windy in the middle of a tornado), and then we move to the aftermath where it goes down like you describe:

Caitlyn is upset with Vi for blocking the shot

Vi insists she shouldn't have had to stop Caitlyn due to the danger to the child

Caitlyn states that she thought Vi was different but she isn't. "It's her blood in your veins":

Stopping here for a moment. This was not a statement of prejudice against Zaun. She is comparing Vi to Jinx, not all of the Undercity. I can back this up with the following points:

The entire quote (S2 E3 begins 10:47) "I keep telling myself that you're different. But you're not. It's her blood in your veins".

This is quite clearly one continuing statement from Caitlyn. She specifically compares Vi to Jinx. Not to Zaunites or anyone else. Just Jinx.

Vi then responds (S2 E3 10:39) "Then why are you the one acting like her?".

This entire thing is all centered around Jinx in the dialogue and obviously linked narratively. It isn't about Zaunites in general.

4. I covered Vi's response above so from there, Vi grabs Caitlyn as she is leaving, shifts her grip to a less aggressive place, then after several seconds Caitlyn hits her.

5. Caitlyn shows clear regret before leaving:

Overall conclusion for the incident itself:

As I said, this is the overall picture you give of this incident with the amount of context and detail you included:

A happy couple working together to catch Jinx get into a fight with Jinx and Sevika. Vi stops Caitlyn from shooting because it endangered a kid. So Caitlyn insults Vi, shows anti-zaun prejudice, then assaults Vi for no reason.

But when you actually take the entire picture into account, this wildly differs from the actual events of the show.

Caitlyn is dealing with ENORMOUS amount of unresolved trauma

Jinx is the central focus of Caitlyn's rage and fear

Vi and Caitlyn care for each-other deeply, but between them is:

A- Vi being Jinx's older sister B- Vi begged Caitlyn for Jinx's life and Jinx killed Caitlyn's mother C- Enforcers killed Vi's parents and Caitlyn asked her to put on the badge D- Their first kiss is in the wake of Vi being afraid of how Caitlyn is changing from all of the violence and death around them

Caitlyn is clearly out of control when Vi is trying to stop her from shooting-

A- Caitlyn fires twice with Vi in the way even striking her gauntlet once B- Caitlyn just keeps saying the same thing over and over "Move.. She's not getting away again!"

As far as the dialogue only goes they both say something terrible in the aftermath-

A- Caitlyn tells Vi she is no different than Jinx. Knowing the guilt and horror Vi feels over what her sister has become. The guilt over Caitlyn's mother. And that Vi put on the badge to follow her on this mission. B- Vi tells Caitlyn she is acting like Jinx. Knowing full well Jinx almost killed Caitlyn repeatedly. Abducted her. And killed her mother

Not that it excuses or makes it okay. But Caitlyn shows clear remorse after hitting Vi.

Wrap Up:

Please understand, this is not about saying it was okay for Caitlyn to hit Vi. Far from. But as I said in response to that first post, we can't even get to that because of situations like this. The unfortunately simplistic version of events you provided completely misrepresents what actually occurred. It isn't about justification. Caitlyn hitting Vi cannot be justified. But it is about proper understanding based on what actually occurred. And not excluding or simplifying things to serve the purpose of demonizing her beyond what is reasonable. Let's take a look at your wrap up points-

1. Recap that they were on good terms and kissed before the fight Caitlyn growing steadily more angry and violent while dynamic between she and Vi was extremely complex 2. "The Violence had already wound down"- You elaborate on Jinx and friends already being gone and that it was no longer life or death. True the fight was over. But Caitlyn was still operating at a ten emotionally and mentally, it takes time for you to come down from that state.

3. You make a point showing Vi wasn't going to hit Caitlyn, elaborating that it was not a fight, but assault

Totally agree, not sure where this is coming from, I guess some people have suggested it or something?

4. "The show never acknowledges this"

Just because you don't consider it enough doesn't mean it didn't happen 5. "Caitlyn never apologizes for hitting Vi or leaving her. They just move straight to sex"

Caitlyn makes amends repeatedly through her deeds rather than her words:

Helps to save Vander

When Vi is wounded and Jinx is exposed she doesn't even look at Jinx, runs to save Vi instead

Keeps Jinx in the bunker rather than Stillwater, and holds off on any judgement until Vi is awake even though she could have taken her revenge and no one in Piltover would have cared

Moves the guards away so Vi can free Jinx if she chooses. Even knowing Vi may leave and Caitlyn would never see her again

*VI initiated their sex scene. Caitlyn even interrupted to make sure she was honest about Maddie*

Your last line asks the following question: "You see why this leaves a bad impression?"

My answer is yes. But it is one born of a gross over-simplification of the events leading to this moment and exclusion of anything challenging the clear anti-Caitlyn bias in your writing.

Comparing Season One Caitlyn Against Season Two

Alrighty last one I promise. So this whole post comparing your feelings about Caitlyn in season 1 to season 2. Fairly cut and dry in terms of concept. Lets look at some things you acknowledge about Caitlyn in season 1:

"Shes genuine. I never once doubted in season 1 that she had good intentions"

"She believed in justice and was ignorant to the system that pushes her family forward while pushing others down and when she's confronted with this she's defensive about it"

"Her arc is learning about the oppression the system Piltover installed was bad and wanted change to help those in the undercity"

You then acknowledge her arc did not complete in season one and that you and many others expectation was to see she and Vi forge a new path for Piltover. So lets look at your observations regarding Caitlyn in season two:

"Caitlyn looses her mom and bam, facism and dictatorship!"

"We can't let the privileged girl face consequences!"

"Grief is not an excuse for what she did"

"She gassed and used nuclear warfare against the defenseless in Zaun"

"What she and Jinx did were two different things" you clarify below:

- "Jinx did what she did because of the oppression of Topside. Everything happened because of the class problems of Piltover" - "But Caitlyn? Yes loosing a parent figure is bad, but Caitlyn proved that those were anti topside: Jinx, Sevika, and Silco were right. The police brutality, the abuse of power, the gassing the city, everything".

6. "She gets no consequences. No, her loosing an eye wasn't a consequence for her becoming a dictator. That happened because she betrayed Ambessa. And even if it was, loosing an eye is not equal to what she did. Caitlyn got to walk away scot free. She got to go back to her mansion with Vi"

Response:

Okay, first off lets get this clarified. What you observed about the hard swing in Caitlyn's trajectory was correct. It was also the point. We already listed the long list of things that happen to Caitlyn piling up higher and higher that lead to her breaking point. Then this happens. So yes, her season two arc swings hard from what we were expecting. I suspect if you were almost murdered repeatedly, abducted, spared the woman who did those things and then watched her kill your mother you might also have some chaotic emotions and mental health for a while.

Now to keep things simple lets just go point by point, so my number 1 corresponds with your number 1 regarding season 2. Pretty simple.

1. Well as we have stated now in full and fleshed out detail there is immensely more to it than losing her mother. You make no mention of the manipulations and actions of Ambessa Medarda in Caitlyn's arc but I'm not detailing all of that. This is already too long. I'll link those docs at the end should you want to read them. It should also be noted Caitlyn is neither a fascist or a dictator. The elite of Piltover agree to declare Martial Law, and they agree to Caitlyn as commander. We can do the whole technical definition of both if you really need me to but I don't think that's needed right now. 2. Caitlyn faces a variety of consequences but you repeat yourself so I'll say more for number 6

3. Agreed. Grief is no excuse. As we have now shown conclusively, it goes so far beyond just grief. But also as we have discussed it is not about excusing anything. It is about understanding. And there can be no understanding as long as we are unwilling to look at her story honestly.

4. Regarding the nuclear warfare comment I apologize. I'm not meaning to be rude, but I have absolutely no clue what you are referencing and therefore cannot give that a thorough response. Regarding the gas, no she didn't. They used The Grey targeting the chem-barons and their soldiers. This was confirmed by Amanda Overton (who I know many of you disregard, but she was one of the creators like it or not), and there is no evidence to the contrary. This does include clearing the area of civilians to keep them out of the fighting. While it is true anything gas based cannot be absolutely contained, there is a tremendous difference between being specific and controlled in their use, versus just letting it loose all over. The imagery showing people running in the streets is from two sources: A- Cassandra Kiramman's files when Caitlyn is learning about The Grey: It's clearly old, with a faded old parchment sort of look to it. The building and the clothes are all different as well. B- The hellfire video- Let's actually look at this:

"We used The Grey to clear the streets! To keep people safe!"

Sound familiar? That's what Vi tells Jinx. You may notice those people are up, and running. They aren't on their backs choking. They are hunting armed criminals with access to Shimmer, and a terrorist who likes to blow things up. Clearing the area seems prudent.

And in case you have seen any of those posts regarding the "scenes they deleted to make Caitlyn look better" Hellfire isn't a pro-Caitlyn propaganda moment in the show. They aren't glamorizing her here. Look at some of the lyrics:

Can I do the right thing for the wrong reason? Is it bad that I'm making friends with my demons, and Living by a couple deadly sins Just to make sure I finish what you began

Does it seem like they are portraying this as a good thing? No. This whole sequence is Caitlyn losing herself. Giving in more to her rage and her pain and surrendering her values in the pursuit of "justice". But lying and exaggerating don't help anything. They only divert attention away from the true meaning of the narrative.

And before we move on lets just get this out of the way. There is no evidence that short term exposure to The Grey harms anyone long term. While there is an abundance of evidence to suggest it does not. We can speculate til the cows come home about what might happen. But at the end of the day this is fiction, and The Grey does not exist. What's accurate is what we are shown is accurate.

5. Well as we have discussed repeatedly Caitlyn's motivations are immensely more complicated and involved than grief over her mother.

Regarding Jinx, this is it's own topic and one I've written on fairly recently. I'll link that here as well. But let's take a quick look here at her actions regardless of motivation:

Lit a building on fire, lured in several enforcers including Caitlyn using a fake child's voice and then blew it up to steal hex tech. Killed everyone but Caitlyn.

Killed countless Firelights.

Attacked the bridge killing several people (Marcus and clearly proven corrupt Enforcers no big loss) but then attacked and actively tried to kill Caitlyn and Vi.

Blew herself up and almost killed Ekko after he stopped fighting

Abducted Caitlyn nude from her home, dressed her in her Enforcer uniform, held her close to a day.

Bound and gagged Caitlyn and made her listen while Jinx tried to convince Vi to murder her.

After Caitlyn spared her life, Jinx knocked her out. She then proceeded to kill Caitlyn's mother, two other councilors, main 2 more, injure at least Viktor and I'm sure other's we don't see, and destroy the chamber. The fall out of this attack opens the door for Piltover retaliation bringing it down on Zaun.

Unleashes The Grey all over Piltover.

If you want to give Jinx a free pass for all of that because of Piltover, I'm afraid you and I cannot agree.

Regarding proving Silco and Sevika right. These supposed champions of Zaun:

Directly and intentionally killed Vander, Grayson and Benzo

Caused the deaths of Mylo and Claggor by taking Vander

Tried to kill Vi

Silco was quite possibly about to kill Powder before she hugged him

They unleash Shimmer on their people. A proven dangerous, addictive drug that mutates its users and can turn them into monsters.

"anti-topside" Silco pays corrupt top-side cops to hunt and kill Firelights for opposing him

Regarding Silco: He promised Jinx and Vi's mother to make a safer Zaun for the then unborn Vi. He tried to kill Vi on the steps of Felicia and Conal's dilapidated home, using destitute Zaunites hooked on the drug he flooded the lanes with.

Regarding Sevika: She knew those kids the entire time they were with Vander. As stated, she plays a part in Vander's death leading to the deaths of Mylo and Claggor, tries to kill Vi repeatedly, and even though she helped orphan Jinx the second time she clearly and intentionally messes with her head in hopes Silco will cast Jinx out.

6. Regarding formal consequences, such as the law or something. As stated Martial Law and by extension Caitlyn was all agreed to by the Piltover elite and totally lawful within the bounds of this universe. Caitlyn's actions didn't actually violate real-world standards either (I've checked) but it's important to remember this isn't the real world. She can't be held to account for violating the Geneva convention in a world with no Geneva.

Regarding consequences in the story she absolutely did. We only see her for a brief moment after defeating Ambessa but her injuries were horrendous. With her power and resources, Caitlyn could have fled if she chose. No one could make her fight. Instead she fought on the front line and faced Ambessa, and sacrificed her eye, and almost her life. And that is to say nothing of the immense mental/emotional trauma of everything that has occurred.

If you aren't counting any of that because she chose to take that risk, I'll say this.

How did we reach the point where someone subjecting themselves to harm to make things right, isn't as righteous as watching them be forced to? It sounds to me like you loved Caitlyn as long as she wasn't affected by anything she went through.

WRAP UP:

This is insanely long. I do apologize for that but I knew it was going to be going in. Responding to multiple posts in one just comes out that way. I totally understand if you just TLDR and move on with your life. But if you do respond , I look forward to your thoughts.

Below as promised I will link my docs reference to the manipulations of Ambessa Medarda and Maddie Nolan on Caitlyn, as well as my recent post regarding Jinx and her motivations. Thank you.

Ambessa Medarda's Manipulation & Control

Maddie Nolan's Manipulation & Control

Jinx was never fighting her oppressor

[danadiadea]

I mean I don't disagree with your concept and I didn't in my previous post too, this line of thought is very fair and much better than hegemonic body positivity. of course, one never is going to find every single person beautiful, so we should internalize the idea of theating aestetucally unpleasant for us people with as much dignity as the ones whose appearance we like or have no strong opinion about. I just have a problem with:

1) the word ugly itself, but it's an English language problem I suppose, because I also can't really think about one word what would convey the meaning and don't carry so much negative emotional charge in it. "not beautiful" is my best bet, I guess, or "not aesthetically pleasing/unpleasant". overall, the words change their meanings or at least soften them, so maybe this one would too, but right now I don't feel comfortable using it or hearing it used towards real people, since in the linguistical context we exist in it automatically implies contempt;

2) ugly/beautiful not being as relatively objective as tall/short. we can set an objective criteria for being tall – let's say "taller than 170" or "taller than average", with average being a number that can be objectively measured. this just doesn't work that way with beauty, because the concept is too multilayered and also based exclusively on subjective perception, whether it's rooted in the way our brain works or how our culture shaped us or which internal beliefs we posess. any skill also is judged (if we are being reasonable) with objective criteria. spotted skin is just as objective as an inability to solve a trigonometry function, but the ugliness of spotted skin is not objective.

and I don't really agree with "everyone knows what tall is", let alone with stretching it to "everyone knows what beautiful is", because subjective perception will always remain subjective. for someone leaving in Timor-Leste a 170cm person is rather tall, for someone from Netherlands it's rather short. Not only the concept of beauty vastly (and I mean VASTLY) differs among cultures, the previous issue I've discussed, wich is the inability to set any kind of universal standard, makes this not a usable concept for me (like for the height we can technically count the average height of a person in 2025 and decide is 170 objectively tall or short based on that, but subjective perspectives of people from different regions wouldn't rely on statistics). Even if technically we could ask a big sample whether they find person A attractive and see if more or less then 50% agree, it is 1) inapplicable to other people 2) doesn't erase the fact that the descriptive "beautiful" can be honestly applied to them. Like I understand that both you and I probably understand whether the person is "generally" considered beautiful when we look at them, especially if they are unusually fitting/not-fitting to the "global" beauty standards, but I still think it's not all that universal and obvious. My autistic ass living in non-native for me culture is so often genuinely shocked when other people frame someone as beautiful/not beautiful, I've thought I was pranked a couple of times I swear. Us living in the times of globalisation doesn't help, but I think that when Japanese people described first Portuguese that contacted them in 1543 as the ugliest beasts possible, they weren't joking, but also the Portuguese people were perfectly ordinary. Now it all blends together a bit more.

so the concept of "letting people be ugly" doesn't exactly work for me if it's intended as "let people be objectively ugly". if it's "let yourself think someone is ugly and be normal about it" – I'm all for it.

also about the unhygienic stuff – I've put it to refer to that "people are trying to find exuses for Snape's hair" bit, because problems with hygiene are not exclusively about appearance, they also are about actions or a lack of them, and this is something people fairly wish to discuss when analysing a character. it's absolutely wrong to bully or demean actual people for it, but when people introduce "reasons" for Snape's hair being this way, I believe they mostly try to either debunk the implications of it being dirty or explain it – people very rarely neglect something that basic without any reason behind it, just as there are reasons for people to not have enough sleep or not eat enough. greasy hair which are just greasy don't need justifications (of the fandom, obv real people who neglect their hygiene for whatever reasons don't owe anyone explanations on their choices, but when we analyse a character saying that they can't keep up with showering is important for character characterization) though, because this is a purely aesthetic question, just like a hooked nose, and it doesn't define a character in any way. so I'd say that it's fair to approach the issue of Snape's hair differently if he neglects its state v/s if he just has oily hair because oily hair exists, since he's a BOOK CHARACTER, not a real person, and in the first case his action or inaction has motivations that may interest us as readers, in the second case it's just hair and whether we find it beautiful or not beautiful or neither is just our personal issue.

also people airbrushing charachters into "prettier" ones should be called Hermione Granger fenomenon fr, I am so sad she is almost always depicted as a literal supermodel:(

I love how the Marauders fandom is like everybody is perfect the way they are, they can be black, brown, white, fat, skinny, tall, short, everyone is pretty. Except Snape, no no no, he cannot be pretty, he has greasy hair, you cannot be pretty with greasy hair

[acourtofthought]

Already sent this too another blog but I want to hear your opinion too. I just listened to an ACOTAR podcast with SJM’s friend in it( The one that wears glasses and usually does interviews with her) and they were talking about possible endgames for Elain in the podcast.

They said they don’t think with the way the books are going that Lucien and Elain will end up together. One of them even said that before she had an active elucien blog on tumblr, but she too agreed that she doesn’t think elucien will happen after their scenes in SF and FAS.

And when they were talking about the endgames for Elain they mentioned Eris and another character, I think tarquin or something. But they were both strong on the possibility of Eris which was crazy to me then. However, thinking about it now and considering how Eris, out of no where, suddenly played a huge role in ACOSF, and SJM hinting that he is about to get the Rhys treatment I am worried.

Especially with the way SJM was giddy talking about writing Eris in SF interviews and then mentioning that she’s planning stuff for Mor Azriel and Elain but never Lucien, and the set up for the renaming books, being two couples and one novella. Plus they both agree that elriel isn’t happening, and they think gwynriel is a huge possibility. I am just thinking that if gwynriel happens and Lucien doesn’t end up with Elain that rules out a book for him and that makes me so sad because IMO I think out of all the remaining characters he deserves a book the most. 😭😭 if Lucien doesn’t get a book it would break my heart.

Sorry for the long ask.

Hi there! I think Steph and Ava are a riot when they're together on their podcast. I also think it's possible Steph may know more than she lets on within her podcast. With that said, though, I often do not buy the theories Steph and Ava have come up with / talked about because there have been a few times where their knowledge of what actually happened in the books is lacking. And no shade to them, they are both extremely busy with many other things and SJM is not the only author the read / talk about. I don't think they obsess over all things SJM the way we do in the fandom (a good thing since Steph is friends with Sarah, you want a friend - not necessarily a fan girl). However, when Ava said she couldn't even remember that Elain stabbed the king and Steph said she thinks Sarah is going to write a throuple for Lucien and that he's got so much story to tell but she's not sure how we're going to get to that until he and Elain settle their bond, it did have me questioning them as a true resource of what to expect. Listen, I LOVE LOVE LOVE Lucien and I'm so excited for his story but even I know that Lucien is not taking center stage to Elain. It's an odd take to think that Lucien's got this big arc ahead of him but the only small pesky thing standing in the way of that is Elain needing to break their bond and once that's done we can move forward with him. At this point, I do have to question anyone thinking Gwynriel is 120% endgame while also believing Elain and Lucien are probably not happening. I actually don't remember them saying Eris or Tarquin are romantic possibilities for Elain but I don't think there's anything to support those statements even if they did. Eris is showing remorse for the state of his relationship with Lucien, I definitely don't see him ending up with his mate. Also, there are zero hints that Elain would end up in the Autumn Court. As far as Tarquin, Elain has literally never met him and I've got no idea what plot people are coming up with for her to meet and then fall in love with him. Sarah did talk of how she discussed what plans she had for Elain, and for Mor, and for Az. And while she didn't mention Lucien in that moment she also didn't mention a female romantic interest for Mor or a romantic interest for Az either. To me, it sort of sounds like Sarah was discussing the "lead" character for a book or spin-off while leaving the love interest a surprise. Honestly, I think the absence of Lucien's name and absence of people discussing the Elucien bond is more telling than if they were being mentioned in conversation together. Elain and Lucien had the most shocking mating bond reveals of any of Sarah's series yet I'm supposed to believe they and their bond rarely come up in any of the more recent interviews Sarah has done? It's one of the bigger unresolved plot-points to date yet it's supposed to be realistic that she's never getting questions on "What will Elain do about her bond?" "Is Lucien getting frustrated by their situation?" "Will Elain ever get to know Lucien?" I remember someone asking something before the novella came out and her response was like, "you might get answers about Elain and her bond" yet all we got was her suddenly ignoring Lucien (and no E/riel lurkers, that is not actually a true decision since Nesta began ignoring Cassian in the same book) but still not rejecting him almost two years later which means the question STILL exists to all readers.

That Elain and Lucien's names are NEVER mentioned in her interviews when they do share a bond makes me think it's intentional on her part, where she said they're off the table during discussions. Which does make sense because if you're going to mate two characters, which seems like an obvious "they're ending up together" setup, it's a smart move to have Elain ignoring him in the book and completely shut down the conversation surrounding them outside of it so it will read as more of a surprise to some. Definitely to many E/riels who are convinced we're delusional to believe Elain and Lucien could still happen.

[lemotmo]

I choked on my water 😂😂😂

Q. Sarcasm goes both ways, dumbass. So that line can be read as sarcastic either way. It can be read as sarcastic towards the people who ship them or it can be read as sarcastic towards the people who don't. It depends on your opinion of the topic. So we don't know the author's sarcastic intentions because we don't know what their opinion on Buddie is. Hope that helps. I know intelligence is hard.

A. Why do you all act like you've never human'd before? Sarcasm does go both ways but not in the same line, dumbass. The wording of the line would be different depending on which viewpoint the writer wanted the reader to take as truth. So for instance the line we are talking about was saying, very clearly, that believing their just bestie bros at this point is kind of ridiculous. Now if the writer was making a statement about how ridiculous the idea of anything romantic between them is, they would have written something entirely different. Something more like:

"News of Eddie's potential move came as a surprise to his bestie Buck, weird for a supposed pair of soulmates who can read each other's every thought".

See the difference? That line is clearly mocking the idea of them as romantic partners. You can't read every piece of sarcasm as sarcastic towards both ideas. That's not a thing. Just like believing every scene we see on television is open to the viewer's interpretation to determine what it actually means is not a thing. Intention exists. And it exists obviously within the text of most things. Some things are open to the readers, or the viewers, interpretation, but not most things. Most things have an intended purpose and a particular conclusion the audience is supposed to come to. Hope that helps, jackass. I know intelligence is hard. Seriously there is no way you all are actually this stupid. And if you have to pretend to be this stupid in order for your character/ship to still sound possible then that should tell you something. Nevermind, convincing yourselves that none of this is weird or crazy behavior already tells me everything I need to know about your intelligence.

Thank you Nonny. 🤗

What is it with the rudeness of these people? There is a better, more polite way to ask someone a question or to make a point if you don't agree with someone else's take.

Anyway, Ali already said all that needed to be said in her answer.

It's like these people are willfully ignoring every single thing that is buddie-positive because they are convinced that we are all having some sort of mass-delusion that Buddie is going canon in 8b. At the same time they are convinced that BT are soulmates, which... no. 🤷‍♀️

I'm so tired of dealing with these people. I hope they all just go away during 8b as soon as they see that Buddie is really happening. 🤞🤞🤞

Heads up! For anyone who is giving me the shifty eyes for reposting Ali's updates instead of reblogging. Read this.

Remember, no hate in comments, reblogs or inboxes. Let's keep it civil and respectful. Thank you.

If you are interested in more of Ali’s posts, you can find all of her posts so far under the tag: anonymous blog I love.

[wirsindkrieg]

As politely as I can say this: I think your expectations around this topic may be colouring your perception of what's actually being said.

Rereading the thread, I don't see anywhere that anyone said that physical nonhumans in general can't discuss their experiences with physical nonhumanity. The core of what both I and sundragon said was that we (as a community) shouldn't blanket shut down expressions of doubt, though we both acknowledged that opinions may differ on where the limit is regarding what's reasonable to express doubt about.

I will grant that both of us used physical transformation as an example of something reasonable to express doubt about. While I won't try to speak for someone else, I personally chose that example because of the long history around p-shifting within nonhuman communities, and the ongoing consensus that those specific claims should have doubt cast on them because of the direct harm p-shifter groups have done within our communities in the past.

Where I think expectations are colouring perception here is a subtle but important distinction. As you note, there are many instances where it is considered inappropriate (at best) to express doubt about someone's experiences. However, that doesn't contradict the idea that there are times when it is appropriate to express doubt. Simplifying the conversation down to "Physical nonhumans should be allowed to discuss their experiences" discards this important nuance.

It's much more useful (at the community level) to focus on the limits of reasonable doubt, and when it's appropriate to express that doubt. There will always be members of the community who look at some experience or another and immediately doubt that it's real/valid. Within recent memory, that kind of doubt was heavily targeted at what are now known as fictionkin, but with time and conversation the limits of reasonable doubt shifted, and now fictionkin are generally accepted as a valid part of our communities.

As a physical nonhuman myself (in the "I am [X], therefore this is a(n) [X]'s body" direction), I firmly agree that physical nonhumanity should be able to be discussed openly. However, I am also a vocal supporter of the life philosophy of "Question everything." These are not contradictory views. The balance between them comes in the form of deciding when and where it's appropriate to express that questioning to others, and in what forms it should be expressed.

Reasonable minds can and will differ on where those limits should be set. Having the ability to express doubt sometimes is healthy for any community, though. While it can suck to have someone cast doubt on something you say (general "you"), it also invites conversation and creates opportunities to further explore one's experiences alongside others and allow everyone a fuller understanding of them.

Expression about one's experiences helped fictionkin become an accepted part of our communities. Doubt about extraordinary claims helps protect our communities from those who intentionally seek to do us harm. There are good reasons to support both, and the conversation around these things should focus on how to find the healthy balance between the two.

I will freely admit that my previous response did focus on support for expressions of doubt, but at no point did I deny the importance of being able to discuss one's experiences in the first place. All I've said is that doubt can be a reasonable response sometimes; it's up to the community as a whole to decide what the limit of "sometimes" means, though.

If you’re going to assert science in a community full of people discussing their scientifically unverifiable experiences I think you should consider what you’re really trying to say. If you’re not trying to call people liars then there’s probably a better way to go about making your point than enumerating the reasons why you think they’re lying.

[iamhereinthebg]

thoughts on the new chapter?

*salt about tbhk incoming* :')))

I already announced it on instagram but my interest in tbhk have dropped drastically since some time and I was gonna give the manga the benefit of the doubt because chap 104 was okay Ig?

Chapter 105 just showed everything I have been not liking about the writing in tbhk in one chapter youhou

let's go on the positive first!

I adore class 1-A I would die for them

The pages in black and white were cool, the art is perfect as always. Maybe seeing an Akane and Hanako team up would be fire af but with Teru here I doubt it so this is a tiny hope I will put in hell with everything else for now.

I love you Kou and Mistuba

Yokoo is rocking this outfit too. I like the fact that the clock being destroyed just stops everything and everyone's time (like a certain character but who has a limit *COUGHS* probably for this reason Ig)

them

Idk if I am strong enough to go on a full explanation on why my interest dropped since some chapters, this didn't start on this one, this one was just the last straw. I will just show the most obvious choices that I don't like ( my opinion btw this is just the feeling I have while reading, take this with a BIG grain of salt)

I've been reading tbhk for 4 years and I am tired of waiting for stuff the author litteraly won't do anything about and just stay in their comfort zone

No repercussions on the mcs for some choices they made, no repercussions on wounds/stuff that happened which should have need time to heal for the characters or for them to grow, giving us always the same team up so no room for real character/relationship development beside the obvious (and with how slow Hanako and Nene have been going honestly making the same characters always interact doesn't help at all apparently L O L), BIG difference of pacing for characters growth, making the story take always the same route with the same characters being kidnapped and the same ones doing the savings, putting characters in an arc they have no reason to be part of so just making them stand in the background like a caricature of themselves, making characters 'mysterious' or forgetting their character development just to use them as some sort of deus ex machina, and the worst of all:

Making Nene just a reason for Hanako to react and nothing else. No character development for her, no reason for her to be in some scenes, this is just sad to watch at this point. Aoi had this problem at the beginning of the manga for Akane mostly for comedic reason and they had growth, seeing they are putting Nene in this position after more than 100 chapters and her being the mc is just awful.

I honestly just want more diversity in the choices they are making in their writing, and the last chapter proves me that either it will come in a long time or it never will.

At least the art is pretty, and the worst part is that I KNOW AidaIro knows how use setup, they know how to write really good stuff and good characters, complex stories, and it's GOOD. So seeing this in the recent chapters just makes me even more tired x'))

Once again, my opinion, but the way Nene and Aoi are treated in the manga makes me wanna explode. AidaIro are capable of writing good female characters (thank you Mei and Sumire for being perfect from start to end), Aoi and Nene had wonderful time too, so idk why all of this is happening rn tbh. It's just sad.

Maybe the brainrot will come back, I still love the characters, but I really need to take a break from the fandom anyways (not gonna expand on this but oh boy how annoying a part of the fandom is, a lot of people are the sweetest but a part makes me wanna explode, I've been more than 3 years here and I think that the most I can take at this point)

ANYWAYS :DDD idk what I will do with this account for now ^^ I will probably still rb some stuff or post old tbhk doodles I never finished :00 Idk what I wanna draw now probably ocs stuff so I won't post them here I think ^^ I hope everyone is alright yay

[uselessnbee]

something i can't stop thinking about is the fact that Percy Jackson started as a comfort story for Rick's son to show him that his adhd and dyslexia doesn't have to be just a bad thing and the fandom then took Percy and Leo and made them into these stupid idiots that don't even know basic math or "big" words and wouldn't be able to even tie their shoelaces without someone else's (someone smarter's) help

don't yall see how fucked up that is? a big part of this fandom has adhd and/or dyslexia and/or other learning disabilities/neurodivergence and find comfort in those characters. they are called lazy and stupid all the time and then yall decided to take characters with those disabilities and ignore their inteligence and made them into something they are not just because their adhd is more "visible" (read more stereotypical looking) (even tho that's not true either because the fandom made them into chaotic gremlins but in reality Percy is more just sarcastic and snarky and even that is more just his internal monologue for his own amusment and to cope and Leo just uses humor as a coping mechanism to hide his depression and other issues but that's a discussion for another time)

Percy is canonically very smart and strategic. no he isn't very good at school. it's what happens when you're neurodivergent and have learning disabilities. that doesn't mean he's stupid. no he doesn't know everything about greek mythology and that doesn't make him stupid either. but when Annabeth tells him the myth he is very good at coming up with strategies and how to win a fight. he's not smart as Annabeth because Annabeth is literally a daughter of the goddess of wisdom so stop fucking comparing them. are you also going to call Annabeth weak and incapable because she can't control water? no you won't because that's fucking stupid. and Leo. fucking Leo. is literally canonically a mathematic genius and also genius when it comes building stuff. they're both smart. they're not fucking stupid. they know and understand words that are longer than 5 letters. no they do not struggle with basic knowledge. they're not fucking stupid.

and miss me with the "it's just a joke" bullshit

jokes are supposed to be funny

and it's not just a joke for many of you because the number of fanfics where they are written in exactly this way is too fucking high. it's actually surprising to find a fanfic where they are written right

in conclusion: the way this fandom portrays Percy and Leo is reinforcing the harmful misconception that people with adhd and/or other learning disabilities are stupid and i hate it with a burning passion

call me sensitive all you want i'll gladly accept it i will rather be called sensitive for hating that those characters are being treated this way than follow the fandoms harmful idea about them

thank you for coming to my ted talk <3

[it-was-tatiana-all-along]

don't agree with anyone here.

just adding my two cents about disability. what i have seen some disabled people do, and i was a victim of that too, was to use disability to just give up. or be angry at people for not understanding.

if someone would try to give me advice i would go "you don't understand my pain". and instead of trying something else, trying to ease the pain, i would attack anyone who came to help. anyone who didn't share my opinions.

yeah, to just say " ignore it " is definitely a little annoying and please, guys, don't ignore your pain. that's insane. shifting is not meant to be painful. i am saying it after a year of ignoring my pain in order to shift, and starting to feel scared to even sleep because the pain was too much and through it, i was even more focused on it!

with all that said, i don't know, follow someone else instead of questioning their answers. if it isn't catered to you, it means it is not for you. that simple. and honestly, a handful of people wouldn't even know what to say, so they use their advice and it ends up not applying to you because, well. i think it's just hard to give advice when you are not disabled. that's all. no ill intention from their part.

as for advice to that one post, about pain. if you can't ignore the pain in your eyes, please try another method. that one is definitely not for you. but that also doesn't mean "now i can't shift". just try something else.

---

and yes, shifting can be an escape. i literally shifted once when i wanted out so bad, i cried myself to sleep that night. it doesn't stop your from shifting. but it's definitely better to not depend on shifting so much, you lose focus of everything. not because you can't shift, but because you will just wake up here, feeling worse and worse, spiraling, thinking that you are trapped. what did i do to deserve this? you ask yourself.

i am not going to continue this, because the people who know and have experienced this know what will come after all this. just be safe, everyone. that's all.

---

with that being said, goodbye. because this is becoming ridiculous.

did you see the post with shiftingonmars ranting you?? and most of her posts are never even about shifting?? she says she has been unmotivated to shift for so long and when someone tries to motivate her she goes off on them

some things:

i never called anyone out or sicced people on them. loa and shifting the same thing, and if that offends you, i don’t know, go argue with a wall. people could’ve dm'ed me, but instead, they made a whole broadway production about it. i hope the standing ovation was worth it. also, most of the things there were just lies. so. please reference stuff. besides shiftingwithmars has been hating on me for the last month, i'm not surprised dlorjeurhfehro

ok. and im sorry, but it's funny. like genuinely. wait no it's actually heartbreaking UHM. people call me entitledbla bla bla, but i’ve put in like.......hours of work. more, actually. a thousand asks, hundreds of posts, my own safety (cause i got doxxed hi ). and for what??

if my posts disturb your delicate sensibilities so much, there’s a wonderful, magical, life-changing feature called blocking. highly recommend.

idk what to say anymore even because something that i wanted to do for the sake of fun and sharing my journey has......literally turned into a waking nightmare. pls leave me alone lol !!!!!!!!

[sleepy-rae-lgbtq]

Headcannons about the characters of Aftg. I don't care if you agree and this will probably change eventually but I wanted to share what my sleep deprived brain wrote down like two nights ago.

Nicky Hemmick: It took Nicky a long time not to internally panic at the sight of anything to do with the Baptist Church due to the trauma from his parents, he mixes up words in English with Spanish and German as well as the other way around, feels horrible about when he kissed Neil, love language is quality time and food, claims not to have favorites among the Foxes but besides his family is probably Dan.

Aaron: I'm on the team of closeted bisexual Aaron, he knows that if Andrew and him didn't make that deal he'd still be under his mother's thumb but that doesn't stop the deep seeded anger and guilt he feels due to all of manipulation his mother put him through as a child, He likes to play with Katelyn's hair or paint her nails during little study dates to relieve anxiety (don't ask why I just say so), does small acts of service and quality time as his love language, I think he secretly cares for all the foxes, mom taught him how to paint nails,

Allison: Sleeps in Seth's hoodie, looking at a bottle of pills makes her feel sick to her stomach and think about how Seth died, spends most nights reading through their texts together, helps Renee dye her hair, and has help from Dan as well as Matt to learn how to do POC hairstyles and such, after Seth's death Aaron helped her paint her nails cause she kept messing up cause it made her think of Seth and how he always chose the color, Aaron and Allison aren't necessarily friends obviously but some part of me thinks that they'd be like close (I don't know why), terrified of Andrew and avoided the entire Monster friend group for weeks besides practice after Andrew attacked her

[cleveradjacent]

Yeah nah that guy is aroace 100% literally, textually, subtextually, sublingually, paranormally, and because I also say so as an aroace person. You don't even have to answer this ask or anything, but like, the free time they have to go onto someone's blog and try to police their opinions on fiction? Like, Anon needs to take that energy and volunteer in their community or something. Possibly as a clown.

yeah that ask was a bit weird. you can feel however you want about my long-winded tag rants but why are you in my house