#my issues with new-52

[puppetwoman17]

Honestly, I don’t know what I want the relationship with Cap and Billy to be.

Because I get why some people want them to be wholly separate beings. It just makes sense that Marvel is completely nonhuman. That he’s just magic given form.

But I don’t entirely like that conclusion. To me, it takes away the fact that billy is responsible for all those lives saved. That he is the one sacrificing his time and putting his life on the line. That he is the one getting all this trauma. Making them separate takes that all away for me.

But there’s also the issue that new52 dc doesn’t do that right either. When Cap and Billy ARE the same, Cap acts like a stupid kid, an overgrown child. I mean that’s not it completely. I have an entire separate issue with how New52 handles Billy’s personality and lore, but we can’t get into that rn or this rant will go on forever.

And the thing is DC DOES know how to handle Cap and Billy being the same(or not the same, but like Cap is Billy with…more. He’s Billy, but he’s also magic itself. Like a fusion of sorts. He has memories and some of his personality, but he doesn’t act like an idiot).

I mean, look at JL Unlimited. Despite Cap still acting somewhat childish, it never goes overboard. He’s even admired by his fellow Leaguers. Hell, BATMAN says the League needs him because of how sunny he is! And sure, while there’s some childishness in the YJ cartoon, it’s not cringy(at least to me, because when you see what they did to him in JL:Throne of Atlantis…)

There’s that one other movie with Superman and Batman that I can’t remember the name of, where some heroes are going after Superman for a reason I ALSO can’t remember. Cap is one of them, and he never once acts like a stupid kid. He, like those other heroes, doesn’t have the whole picture, and that’s why he’s attacking Supes.

Thwre is a way to have Cap and Billy be the same entity, have the same memories, but also be somewhat different. There is a way to make sure that Billy is shown to be responsible for the lives he saves. There is a way to give Cap respect in this universe because it has been done before. New52 needs to work on that or we’ll have this issue forever🙄.

It almost makes me glad we don’t have a Shazam/Captain Marvel tv show because gods know what they might do to him. I’m telling you, we have had the “child gets given tremendous responsibility and fucks up” schtik over and over and over for the past century and probably more. It’s been done. So many times.

Cap was a beloved hero in the 1940s and pre-52 BECAUSE he didn’t adhere to that. Because the writers made sure we knew he was capable of being responsible and a hard worker, and not an idiot, all while being like 10. And in recent years it has STILL been done.

It is possible. Just do it right!

[alukardtheabysswalker]

Oh hey nonbinary rep in MAWS cool!

[necrotic-nephilim]

I started in DC by reading fanfics, but as I began to read actual comics, I started to be unable to read the actual fanfic that got me into it in the first place because it's so out of character.

But there are still some stories that I love to read because I love the found family trope so much, even if it isn't really accurate to the source material.

As a comics purist (sometimes), are there tropes that you like enough that you'll still enjoy a fic even if it's not accurate to canon?

oh my god this is SUCH a fun question. bc while i started with the comics, there were certain characters and/or character dynamics where i was exposed to the fanon before the canon (just bc it's hard to read everything when you start out just to read some fanfic) and so i've definitely experienced the fanon to canon transition. (*especially* with Jason Todd. i had only read 80s/90s stuff where he was already dead or the New-52 bc that was on-going when i got into comics and man. the fanon misunderstandings i had about him before i got frustrated and sat down to read all his pre-Flashpoint stuff were absolutely bonkers.) and aside from that, whilst i tend to prefer canon over fanon, i'm not past giving fanon its flowers for occasionally having really interesting insights. occasionally. so some of my fanon "guilty pleasure" tropes would probably be

Morally Grey Tim Drake - this is one where if you try to back it up with canon, i *will* get salty about it. of everyone in the Batfam aside from maybe Bruce and Cass, Tim has the *most* black and white morals. often his internal conflicts are routed in such an inability to compromise his moral views and it can cause him to clash with other characters. he's *very* stiff and rigid in his beliefs and is *rare* to compromise in even the smallest ways. i mean, DC has repeatedly used Tim Drake of Tomorrow/Savior/Gun Batman!Tim for a reason. it's to demonstrate that of everyone, Tim *cannot* have his morals compromised. there's no grey area for him. he's zero or a hundred, so if he tips over the edge of "too far" he tips *all the way*, and doing so is one of his worst fears, how he could go "too far" if he let himself. a couple panels out of context from Red Robin (2009) (which was a grief spiral for Tim to begin with) don't change that. now that said. if it's done *right*, i sort of love Tim being morally grey in fanfic. it takes a specific flavor for me, and it's incredibly important to include that mental spiral along with it, of him struggling to justify it. i don't have any interest in "Tim Drake is loosy goosy with Bruce's morals and has the highest kill count and no one knows teehee" bc it doesn't play with the interesting parts of making Tim morally grey, which are fracturing his psyche. but all in all, i think it's fun to put Tim in a morally grey area and i will read it in fanfic and i enjoy writing it a lot

Joker Junior!Tim Drake - i've not written it on this account (yet) but on my main ao3 account one of my biggest fics surrounds this concept. this is one of those "well *technically* it's canon but only in a specific very divorced from the comics universe and would not work at all in the main timeline" so, i categorize it as fanon in that 95% of fics exploring the concept are not doing so within the Batman Beyond universe, but the main timeline. i just love it. I'll take any excuse to whump Tim, but this concept is so fun. psychologically breaking Tim will always be my favorite pastime. there are so many ways to explore the long-term effects this could have on him, how it could affect the Batfam. i'm not a fan of it being used as a "gotcha" to Jason or Babs' trauma with the Joker to paint Tim as the Ultimate Victim, but it is fun to see how their relationships would be affected by being mutual victims of him. (i have a vague JayTim idea where TIm fully retires from being Robin after being Joker Junior and killing the Joker, making Steph Robin for most of his typical Robin era and Jason still tracks him down out of curiosity bc he wants to know what happened and all. very underbaked but i've got thoughts.)

Renegade/Apprentice of Slade!Dick Grayson - this is another one where yes, this happened *sort of* in canon, but i highly doubt most people writing Renegate!Dick have read or are actually pulling from Nightwing: Renegade. it's just an exploration fo the concept fo Dick being Slade's apprentice and i will always eat it up in any capacity. whether Dick grows up with Slade from a young age, or chooses Slade for whatever reason later in life. it's not anything that works in canon bc it compromises Dick morally (similar to the above with Tim) and therefore will always come across incredibly fanon in most fics. but i can't say i don't enjoy it. it's fun to make Dick a little morally fucked up and see what you can make him under Slade's tutelage.

Jason & Damian Meeting in the League -there's no world where i believe this could work in the canon comics. (maybe in the Young Justice cartoon i suppose, but even then i think it's iffy) i would go as far to say it's wildly unrealistic. i don't see a world where Ra's would let Jason anywhere *near* Damian, bc Jason was Talia's pet project that he didn't approve of. that all said, there's something very interesting about how they *could've* met and them potentially bonding during that timeframe. them being somewhat brotherly during this time because Jason sees Bruce in Damian and sort of latches onto the kid and Damian is full of wonder hearing real stories about Batman and Robin, then that getting violently ripped away by Jason leaving the League is fun to me. it's fun how that could affect them within the Batfam and all. it's super fanon to me, but i do not care. i will eat it up

Bad Dad Clark Kent/Good Dad Lex Luthor - i will admit as a late, i've been less and less kind to this particular fanon bc of everything i've argued with people about, *this* one seems the most pervasive as misunderstood fanon. i don't mind when fanon exists, my gripe is when ppl try to claim it's canon. and the *arguments* i've had over this with people who can never seem to cite an actual comic are... frustrating. but that said, i think there is something fun to this strictly in fanon. the duality of who you expect to accept Kon and who you expect to hurt him being flipped is just sort of fun for the occasional guilty pleasure fic. it can make Kon's internal conflict a bit more interesting. the same goes for the Jon favoritism from Clark, it's not a canon thing (and i rlly wish ppl understood how complicated the timeline of Kon and Jon is and any distance from Clark toward Kon isn't malice, it's that Kon is from a timeline that Clark does not remember in the current canon so Clark just straight up doesn't know the poor kid.) but it's sort of fun to give Kon that complex of being overlooked and forgotten sometimes. making Kon just a *bit* more Luthor than Kent will *always* appeal to me in fanfic, especially if he *knows* it's wrong but craves approval from anyone who will give it.

Good Dad Bruce Wayne - i'll die on the hill Bruce is canonically a shitty father. maybe not to the extreme some people write him as, but he's not great at it. that said, i enjoy it in fanfiction. sometimes, i just want silly fluff or hurt/comfort where Bruce finally gets it right and manages to comfort whatever Batkid is in the fic. one of my favorite fics of all time is hinged on Bruce being a good dad, so i think it's just fun to explore how good the relationships *could* be, if Bruce was slightly less of an asshole. i usually prefer him as an asshole, but there are times i want low stakes nonsense.

Gotham Rogues Having Soft Spots for Robin(s) - just about every Rogue in Gotham has done something absolutely irredeemable, and most of them don't like or care about anyone in the Batfamily. but if there's a fic where one of the Robins inexplicably is sort of close with a Rogue and they have a cute silly relationship out of it? I'll eat it up i fear. Steph and the Riddler are besties? I'll believe it. Tim and Scarecrow get along pretty well? give me ten of these. Rogues protecting Robins just hits a spot. the unexpected nature of the relationship, as well as the fact they see each other regularly, can make a lot of good fodder.

[batfamdcposts]

I want a comic that shows how the batfam’s disabilities and/or health issues limit their efficacy and the frustration that brings. Give me all of Bab’s monitors going out, her sitting in the dark as her family fights against an unexpected or unknown weapon, and let me see the barely restrained panic. Let her stew in her helplessness, and let her rage at the inconvenience and unfairness of it all. Let her healing be nonlinear, because her incredible feats as Oracle don’t change the fact that she could rush to them right now as Batgirl.

Let Tim feel the proverbial leash of only being able to go so far for so long, because there’s a limit to how many doses of antibiotics he can carry with him. He’s blatantly defied almost every single authority figure he’s ever had, and this is what he has to obey? Let it interrupt his work, and let him obsessively wonder how much more productive he’d be if he didn’t have to spend the time counting and refilling his medications. Let Bruce coming back from a deep space mission be a reminder that there’s an extra step for him to be able to do the same. Let Tim feel the horrible, complicated, conflicting cocktail of gratitude and fury and appreciation and love and guilt when he finds out that each family member carries extra doses on them just in case they get sucked into a portal of some kind on Gotham’s whacked streets.

Let Cass feel the mosquito-bite hurt of not being able to read mission reports as quickly as her family of detectives and geniuses. Let the suggestion of a word-to-text program be offensive before it’s appreciated, because knowing something will be helpful doesn’t always mean she’s ready to accept it. Let her feel trapped by an inability to fully vent what she’s feeling because she doesn’t know the right words. Let her feel the hurt of some people not caring about what she’s trying to say because she can’t always communicate her ideas quickly or concisely enough. Let her hurt turn to rage, because if those people don’t matter then why is she so upset at their decision to disregard her? Why is there a niggling need to prove her worth and intelligence?

I’d just really love to see more of this in fics, comics, etc, because sometimes it’s hurtful even when it shouldn’t be, and sometimes it sucks in ways you never thought it would. Sometimes a disability or health issue actively impedes progress and makes you an inconvenience, and seeing these heroes deal with that would be so helpful in dealing with it.

[rawrsatthetree]

Gnawing at the bars of my enclosure thinking about drawing Ascended Astarion and my Dark Urge posed together as Joker and Harley Quinn cover art

[themyscirah]

Reading shit comics kind of sucks but at least I get the satisfaction of proving my own point w this

[dw-flagler]

its kind of funny to me that in the comics supergirl kind of occupies the spot for like the edgy superman. which is kind of weird for her typical role as kid sidekick to superman because her thing as a character (at least the versions of her character that i like) is that she doesn't have a reason to help anybody and doesn't like earth. edgy superman. but she's also the kid sidekick. strange juxtaposition

[heroesriseandfall]

Not Wonder Woman writers stealing Cassie’s backstory for Diana 💀💀 And to top it all off Cassie doesn’t even appear in a single Wonder Woman issue in the New 52. They stole from her and then didn’t even let in her in the run for one issue.

[gob-lob]

Y’ALLLLLL

guess who just got comicssss

[aijoukaren]

courtney whitmore and j’onn j’onzz in justice league of america (2013) #8-14

[puppetwoman17]

Day 5839272928572028474 of ignoring New52 C.C. and Marilyn.

The Batsons were GOOD parents. GREAT parents. And even greater partners to each other. C.C. would legit murder a man for his wife and kids, and Marilyn loves her husband and her babies more than anything. They left Billy with Ebenezer because he needed to catch up on his studies and wanted to trust that he would be taken care of.

People might say that just looking at Ebenezer would’ve told them he was evil, but that just rubs me the wrong way. Clarence and Ebenezer were brothers! Half brothers, but brothers nonetheless(E hates C.C. but how could he have known?)

I don’t know how any of this was translated to the awful terrible trash New52 versions of themselves. Like why do that? Is it to prop up the Vasquez couple? Cause that’s just cheap. They should be good on their own.

Also just love that DC took out the ghost-like shadow figure that led Billy to the train in the first place. They know it was C.C. trying to help his son 🙄.

Congrats tho, DC. You are the first corp that has ever made me wish for an abusive adult character back. Everything would’ve been so much easier if they just kept Ebenezer. He has more than enough shitty fam story beats, sowed the seeds of betrayal, and basically started Billy on his path of becoming independent and showing Shazam he was capable of bearing the weight of Eternity.

But nOoOoOo, we got criminal C.C., not the fun kind mind you, and abusive, selfish Marilyn.

[necrotic-nephilim]

Tell me why Kara Zor-L is one of my your favs! I'm been meaning to make the jump from the CW show to the comics. Any recommendations?

- @cicero-in-gotham

@cicero-in-gotham oh i would LOVE to!! Kara Zor-L is my darling beloved.

firstly for suggestions, i'll be honest Kara can be... a hard character to read for. you have to slog through a lot of really shitty "male gaze" content to get scraps of interesting stuff. the top comics i'd recommend are

Power Girl: Power Trip

Power Girl Returns

Power Girl (2023)

some people like Harley Quinn & Power Girl. i'll be honest... i did not. and Power Girl (2009) has... ups and downs, is the nicest way i'll say it. but it's also solid for what it is. certainly better than her New-52 content so i can't really complain.

anyhow, i always am enamoured by characters who are disconnected from their "family", especially due to trauma. bc no one really counts Power Girl as part of the Superfamily. and even within the Superfamily if people are talking about the "outcast" of the family, they always say Kon. (which, eh? maybe New-52!Kon but i wouldn't say the main Kon is an outcast, his issues are internal) but to me, Kara far better suites that role. it's one thing to be one of the last survivors of Krypton. it's another thing to be one of the last survivors of your entire *universe* as well. she lost everyone, *twice*.

i adore characters who feel like imposters and Kara is *peak* imposter syndrome. everything about her identity is constructed around not feeling like a "real" Super, or a "real" Zor-L. she has to live with knowing she's on an earth that has Supergirl, meaning they don't need her. she didn't wear the S crest for so long even on her own earth, because she felt like she didn't server it.the only thing she feels like she has going for her is her sexual appeal and so it's so amped up she lacks a personality outside of it. she has been isolated again and again by her trauma and she struggles to face her grief, masking with humor and oversexual appearances. i find that to be so interesting. she lost *everything*, twice. and now she's an imposter who will always hold herself at a distance from the Supers because she doesn't want to make them uncomfortable with her existence. she has to live on an Earth and know everyone is... slightly off. she has Clark, but it's not *her* Clark. she has the Justice Society of America, but it's not *her* JSA. and she doesn't have her best friend, Helena Wayne at *all*, because this earth has Helena Bertinelli as Huntress. (unless you count New Golden Age stuff but that's future timeline nonsense)

i find Kara's lack of identity interesting, and the way she just sort of drifts. she has done a lot of things, but lacks a sense of self importance bc she will never view herself as a "real" Kryptonian of this universe. she's just so neat to me. i also love the JSA personally, they're one of my favorite superhero teams, so i love any character connected to the JSA, they're always so underrated.

the Power Girl Special (which is collected in Power Girl Returns) is like, genuinely one of my favorite single issues ever. that comic just lives in my bones. it also has one of the *best* internal monologues i've ever read. something something comics are art. this is cutting some stuff out but just to show you have beautiful the writing is, this is an excerpt from that comic

people tend to think of hatred as love's opposite. but i disagree- i think hatred is just love's sharpened edge. it's the same passion. the same potency, the same intensity. just a different flavor. so no, hatred isn't love's opposite. grief is. grief is the void left behind after something you once loved was violently ripped away. grief is what happens in love's sudden absence. love is when your cup runneth over. but grief is hollow. a chasm. there is no negotiating with grief. it does what it wants to you, when it wants. you will never outgrow or outrun it. but... you can find ways to grow around it. i never got to say goodbye. i was loved, once. i was once loved so much that my life was prioritized above all else. i will never feel worthy of that love or sacrifice. but i'm realizing now that to freeze or falter in the shadow of that love is the only way to fail their sacrifice. i have to live in the light. i can step out into the sunlight, and still carry them with me.

like that is??? so Character to me. she is Everything. i'm just. so unwell over her internal struggles and how she faces the world, i cannot recommend her enough. she means the world to me and that comic has stuck with me since i read it for it's conversation about handling grief. i am begging everyone to be a Power Girl fan i know she's confusing but once you get the hang of her backstory she's so cool i swear-

[atlantic-riona]

should I...break out my box of comics...

[sinvulkt]

[themyscirah]

I apologize sincerely for the person I am about to become here

[volfoss]

i am so relieved that the aquaman vol 5 run that was like 60 issues of most over the top 90s writing from peter david ended on SUCH a strong note with dan jurgens run