#mxtx we are not worthy

[tgcfsketches]

[phoenixcatch7]

Honestly I'd really like to see a mxtx3 story where wwx and xl work with Sqq to reveal sqq's true backstory and the system to lbh.

I mean, think about it!! One of the biggest problems with scum villain is how even though they get together, unlike the other couples bingqiu is still left with all these huge secrets that massively affect them both. Lbh is left believing he married his mercurial abuser, that his suffering passed some sort of indefinable test that proved him worthy of basic rights. That Sqq threw him in the abyss of his own volition. That Sqq was really sacrificing his life and not faking his death with intent to survive.

Sqq is left knowing all these things but unable to act on them, unable to tell his husband about his own past, unable to explain his actions, never able to fully let his guard down because he's supposed to be shen qingqiu. He can't even tell his own husband his original name!! If he could have, he would have, even if only in the extras!

But can you imagine???

A meeting of bingqiu, wangxian, Hualian, for whatever reason, and as the three (actual) protagonists chat and gossip and get to know each other, as they talk, Sqq is at ease enough to slip up and finds out he can talk about the system to anyone from outside pidw! Not just sqh!! Maybe not completely, but he can mention some, and the other two, concerned for their new friend, are clever enough to tease the rest out. They're horrified. Sqq is resigned but freshly hopeful.

And so begins Mission: Save Sqq's Marriage!

(Sqq would very much like to contend the title but he is out voted.)

I'd just love to see the three of them (with unquestioning aid from their husbands) get up to hijinks and face existential horrors on a quest to help bingqiu get the closure they need. And moshang too, I guess XD.

It'd also be very, very funny to have them all in the middle of the latest traumatic and/or mortifying scene look around at the other two like 'hey, aren't you supposed to be freaking out now? This is normally the part people start screaming' and the other two are like 'I mean I guess?? We've got things to do though' like kings of unflappable repression right there.

(and lbh and lwj having vinegar-offs while hc is sighing dreamily watching his husband make semi decent friends for once)

Like there's a bunch of crossovers but none really scratch that itch, you know? The main characters of all 3 mxtx?? There's so much potential for Truly Unhinged Shenanigans!! Wangxian visiting pidws wife plot filled world and disappearing into the wilderness for a full week, coming back with every single piece of clothing they brought ruined. Hualian go visit mdzs and and no one believes xl is a diety and hc chomping at the bit to kill them for the injustice. Bingqiu going to tgcf and lbh getting mistaken for a calamity, or Sqq falling into the one wife plot kidnapping or something intended for a diety.

But seriously imagine Sqq complaining about something and wwx and xl immediately going 'that's not right! You deserve better!!' and Sqq is like 'no it's fine I'm used to it' and the other two slam their fists on the table like 'no!!! If [husband] was forced to keep that kind of secret I'd hate it!! You two deserve to be properly happy!! Let us help! We can fix this!' and start working with zeal and vigor while Sqq trails along embarrassed half heartedly muttering 'it's not that bad >:/'.

And when it works (presumably some clever loophole they stumbled on) and bingqiu are tearfully kissing they share a low five without looking. Or that one meme where the person getting kissed holds their hand back and their wingman enthusiastically high fives it but there's two wingmen XD!

I don't knowww but it'd be such a good premise! Ripe for character interactions!! Fluff! Crack! Angst! Daytrips and pouring their hearts out to people who'd really understand! Xl wwx and Sqq bestie team up! Meeting moshang! Wwx info dumping about his monster index categorisation to an enthralled Sqq! Xl and Sqq bemoaning etiquette while wwx laughs at them! Xl and wwx having intense discussions about morality and righteousness! All three of them laughing at how oblivious they were about their husbands, each trying to one the other two for Dumb Moments They Should Have Realised (Sqq wins by horrifying the other two)!

Forget cross country kidnappings and being locked in a room! Where is my protagonist trio getting into trouble on a self imposed mission to help their friend! Let their magnetism for insanity shine!!

[whumpbby]

Just had a thought that TGCF is actually MXTX's first book where she tried to be actually, eh, romantic about the romance? XD

Like, between the cringe-worthy confession of "I really regret we didn't fuck that one time!" in MDZS and the horrific mess that was the "first time" in SVSSS - the more traditional route Hualian follow is a bit of a relief at this point.

...a cave full of statues notwithstanding>>

[twilightarc-gm]

hello :D can you tell me why you like chengxian?

A Non-Comprehensive Guide to Twi's Love of ChengXian

Yes I spent time making this edit. I love them and I'm not an artist so sue me.

Short Answer: I love these two self-sacrificing assholes and their aesthetics and I think they should kiss and get a happy ending for once. If MXTX doesn't want to do it, I'll write it instead! 😤

Long Answer: Click the Read More

"As long as we both live in this world, we'll meet sooner or later." -- Vol1 Chap6

👏 MDZS literally doesn't happen without Yunmeng Shuangjie, it doesn't happen without the huge sense of debt and love and envy and pride and duty that comprises everything about the relationship between Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng. They must meet because their stories are so wrapped up in each other that where one ends and the other begins is a blurred line at best.

MXTX put in so much work to separate these two for the happily ever after she wanted and if you think about it too much you start to wonder if the Wei Wuxian we grew to love with this story, that says this kind of line, is ever going to be really happy without Jiang Cheng in his life.

💗It's not incest, but the boys wish it was. I am half-joking about this, but also absolutely serious. The vague labels on their relationship is a very big part of the point!

They are very much the Shixiong/shidi(mei) xianxia/wuxia romance trope. The talented and wonderful shixiong. The shidi(mei) that adores their shixiong but can't be honest about it. Childhood friends to sweethearts. MXTX uses this trope and subverts it by not making it endgame or letting the story just end with the tragedy of the First Siege.

She uses the power of this trope to feed into everything in and around the secret of the Golden Core Transfer. It ends up affecting the entire cultivation world as the greatest token of love, of devotion, of sacrifice, of consequence, of dubious consent, of the crux of the very story itself... which is just incredibly powerful.

And the rest of MDZS flows from that.

He had always thought Jiang Cheng would be the one standing with him, and Lan Wangji against him. He'd never imagined that reality would be the complete opposite.

This is literally errata from vol1 official pg 262 and I swear it wasn't put in the first time because it feeds ChengXian too much. You say that Wei Wuxian thought Jiang Cheng would always be by his side? He couldn't imagine a world where that wasn't true?? That now he's in a reality where it's the opposite??? Omg???? Like this is the sum of the ChengXian tragedy right here because MXTX made a reality where they couldn't be together! 💔😭

Like LOOK!

“When you become the family head, I’ll be your subordinate. We’ll be just like our fathers. Who cares about the Twin Jades of Lan? Our Yunmeng has Twin Heroes! So—just shut up. Who said you’re not worthy of being family head? No one’s allowed to say that, not even you. Say it and you’re asking to get beat.” --Vol3 Chap12

You see for me it's about the strain between love and duty and all the points where those two cross.

My actual favorite romance trope is king/lionheart - lord/devoted - leader/subordinate - patron/agent - master/servant - 知己 (zhiji)

this relationship of knowing is one that is worth dying for

“So when Wei-gongzi returned to seek us out, my jiejie was reluctant to even attempt the procedure, at first. She warned him that writing an essay was one thing, but actually doing it was quite another. She wasn’t even confident she’d have a fifty percent chance of success.

“But Wei-gongzi kept pestering her. He said fifty percent was fine; the chances of success and failure were equal. Even if it didn’t work out and his core was wasted, he wasn’t worried about his future—but that wasn’t the case for Sect Leader Jiang. He was too competitive, too focused on what he stood to gain and lose in this aspect, since cultivation was his life. And if Sect Leader Jiang could only ever be an ordinary, mediocre person, his life would be over.” --Vol4 Chap19

Wei Wuxian was willing to risk his life on a 50% chance if it meant Jiang Cheng would Live. Yes yes Wei Wuxian's patent assholery here about how Jiang Cheng is so competitive etc, classic fooling himself. The point is that Jiang Cheng wouldn't be Jiang Cheng anymore and Wei Wuxian would rather die than experience that. Would rather cut himself apart than fail to protect his shidi.

Speaking of failures...

Perhaps there was this:

“I didn’t get caught by the Wen Clan because I insisted on returning to Lotus Pier to retrieve my parents’ bodies.

“When you went to buy rations in that small town during our escape, a group of Wen cultivators caught up to us.

“I noticed them early and left the spot where I’d been sitting to hide in a corner of the street. I didn’t get caught, but they were patrolling, and they would have surely bumped into you while you were getting us food.

“So I ran out and lured them away.” --Vol5 Chap22

Jiang Cheng never wanted Wei Wuxian to die, let alone die for him. He breaks down at the shrine coming to terms with what he will ultimately think of as his fault. We know this because when he feels at fault he doesn't speak of his good intentions. So, he distracts the Wen-dogs from Wei Wuxian > Gets caught and survives, broken > as far as he knows he's miraculously healed > only to find out that Wei Wuxian was taken by the Wen-dogs anyway 3 months later > Jiang Cheng never speaks of his failures, so will never say how lost his core in the first place > a war and 13 years later he finds out that not only did he fail to protect Wei Wuxian from Wen-dogs, but now also knows unequivocally that Wei Wuxian's descent into heretic cultivation was his fault... again.

As tears streamed down his face, he hissed through gritted teeth, “…Why…why didn’t you tell me?!”

And he begs to know why Wei Wuxian would do this!

“Consider it a repayment of my debt to the Jiangs,” Wei Wuxian added.

Jiang Cheng raised his head and looked at him with bloodshot eyes. “…To my father, my mother, my sister?” he asked in a hoarse voice.

Not him. Wei Wuxian won't admit it's for Jiang Cheng--the shidi he meant to protect as a good shixiong, the master he was meant to support, the heir and symbol of the clan and sect he loved so much he would readily lose a hand to protect.

The way Wei Wuxian tortures Wen Zhuliu by leaving him whole and standing while his charge Wen Chao is torn up bit by bit... The delicious parallels of -- you made me a failure, now see how you like it, watch the one you are meant to protect be torn asunder.

...

Hold on I need a moment...

...

How about some cute stuff?

Wei Wuxian waved him off and then hooked his arm around Jiang Cheng’s shoulders. -- Vol1 Chap4

He put his arm around Jiang Cheng’s shoulders and dragged him over to the veranda railings to sit down.

[...]

Jiang Cheng was quiet, but he seemed to have calmed down a little. Wei Wuxian put an arm around his shoulders again. --Vol3 Chap12

💗Wei Wuxian is always all over the person/s he likes and loves. Jiang Yanli might have been the first to carry Wei Wuxian but Jiang Cheng's were the first shoulders he chose to hang off of. Jiang Cheng stands so straight because he is used to bearing Wei Wuxian's weight! (Also he's of the gentry, and you can make arguments about a rod in places where the sun doesn't shine, but Wei Wuxian benefits regardless!)

Among all the kicks and shoves and rough housing and sparring, they are just so tactile.

Gif from this post.

… Jiang Cheng, walk slower, you’re gonna throw me off.”

Not only did Jiang Cheng want to throw Wei Wuxian off, but he practically wanted to bash his head into the ground to create a human crater. “So fussy even though I’m carrying you!”

“I didn’t tell you to carry me,” Wei Wuxian reasoned.

Jiang Cheng flew into a rage. “If I didn’t carry you, I think you’d hang out at their ancestral hall all day, rolling around on the floor. I can’t afford this embarrassment! Lan Wangji took fifty more strikes than you, but he walked away on his own, and you’re not embarrassed, pretending to be an invalid? I don’t want to carry you anymore. Get the hell off!”

“No, I’m wounded,” Wei Wuxian said. --Vol1 Chap4

💜 Yes I am bringing back this quote from my Jiang Cheng appreciation post.

Hnng, I am trying to be more concise, but like one of the things I also enjoy in romance is how two imperfect people choose to be together and that choice that they make is the gold and solder that fits the pieces together into art. Sure MDZS didn't want to go there even though that's where it started, but to me it will only ever be the story of Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian.

Honestly even Yi City arc is YMSJ | CX to me.

Song Lan = Jiang Cheng

Xiao Xingchen = Wei Wuxian

Baoshan Sanren is involved

Eyes = Golden Core

Baixue Temple = Yunmeng Jiang

GUILT

RUNNING AWAY

Xue Yang = Yuan Qi (Resentment) Modao/Guidao

CORRUPTION

A-Qing = lwj being obsessed with WWX and fighting his use of guidao like a-Qing is distrustful of XY and XXC being friends with him.

XXC kills SL = WWX kills JC (figuratively, JYL's death destroyed the last of the JC from their childhood and all the trust he had in WWX (you cannot tell me that WWX doesn't feel like he caused JYL's death (he couldn't control the corpse that hurt her, he didn't sense the sword coming for him and she had to protect him)))

XXC's suicide and shattered soul is thus my grounds for headcanon to what actually happened to WWX at the First Siege, just sayin'

...

Anyway that's a bunch of canon stuff how about the realm of fanfiction/art?

Meme Format Reasons Twi is unwell about ChengXian:

From this post (yes that's my same edit)

Art Commissioned (So Far, more on the way and some I can't share yet) for ChengXian:

Happy ChengXian with Wei Wuxian in Purple by @robinade

Supportive ChengXian in pretty clothes! by Sugar_Shoal

Some more points for consideration:

💗 Point 1: They can't be normal about each other, due in large part by the people who raised them being unable to be normal about them either.

💗 Point 2: Their opposing ideologies, duties, and priorities make for the best drama, but in a better narrative, would balance each other.

💗 Point 3: Martial sibling romance ➡ tragedy! They fought together! Thought the future would be them together always! Then everything in the narrative tears it apart and all they're left with are the ashes of their choices and the lies that buried them.

💗 Point 4: Every AU where they end up happy instead!! 😭 I can't wait for @twinclownsoflotuspiers next CX Happy Ending event! Thankfully there is also @omiixcx coming up this APR 21st-27th! 👀 Yes that was a promo and prod.

💜 Point 5: ChengXian Pros = Zongzhu-shidi getting to love and protect his shixiong fully and truly without restraint.

🖤 Point 6: XianCheng Pros = Overprotective shixiong merciless in his affections for his Zongzhu-shidi.

💗 Point 7: Ship them for tropes based on miscommunication, acts of service, there was only one bed, boundary issues, genderfuckery, soul bound by choice, bickering, bantering, finishing each other's sentences, married-divorced-never-were, childhood shenanigans, cutting oneself on the other and denying the blood ever was...

...

I am not even getting into the monster/monster-maker aspect, am I? They are both at the same time!

JC makes WWX a monster by being the recipient of the golden core and believing WWX has control of guidao so encourages its use.

WWX makes JC a monster by lying to him until their relationship is broken irrevocably at the Bloodbath and years after JC is known for hunting demonic cultivators.

If you want to get really dark with it, there's also the cannibalistic aspect. WWX becomes a part of JC with the transfer. JC unwittingly consumes WWX and his fortune. The golden core is in the lower dantian, the belly, behind and below the navel. The symbology..! XianCheng is really good for the more gothic themes of the ship.

Let's be real, the vibes are straight up Wuthering Heights in multiple facets. MXTX recently admitted to that novel was one she read so insert conspiracy theory red string board meme here!

...

I spend a lot of time readdressing the themes introduced with the YMSJ dynamic and are exacerbated by the golden core transfer and the way Wei Wuxian handles and fails to handle that situation. I like how destructive they are about each other. There's a lot of potential there to create something together as well, but they were never given the chance.

Ideally, after the Jiang parents were gone and not influencing them anymore, or if they aged up enough to just stand on their own—and Wei Wuxian has his cultivation intact... Well in that scenario they could have easily stayed the Twin Prides/Heroes of Yunmeng and they would have been so happy being in the home they both loved and making the most of their lives one step at a time and arguing the whole way.

...

That's what fanfiction is for! 💜��🖤

Hey, you made it to the end! I hope that was entertaining at least there is so much going on with this ship sometimes my brain just goes brrrr about it, y'know? Take care! Happy CX thoughts to you!

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

Some dialogue from the original MDZS which was cut from the current version:

When Jiang Cheng had lost his golden core. Wei Wuxian had given up his own to him. When Lan Wangji heard this did he feel as if he would give anything up out of gratitude? Wei Wuxian immediately bluted out, "Nonsense! Nonsense! That’s outrageous ! I'm not that sacrificial*! It’s nothing like that!” - from this post, but I've found and verified this passage in the original version myself – see below.

(It was the whole dialogue exchange that was cut, likely due to it laying out LWJ's motivations form pushing WWX away too explicitly, not just this line. Add that to characters acting pretty much the same in this version, and MXTX never mentioning characterisation as something she was refining in the edits, we can be relatively certain this cut is not due to a change in characterisation)

Now, why is this important? MDZS (in its current form) doesn't state character traits outright – it's written better than that – but this is the closest thing to direct, verbal confirmation we'll get that WWX isn't a self-sacrificial idiot! You could always argue that since it's WWX speaking, he's being an 'unreliable narrator', but his remarks are proven right multiple times in the text. He doesn't seek out situations where he has to sacrifice something, it's certainly not his preferred route when dealing with a situation (he finds ways where no sacrifice is necessary, it's a side effect rather than a primary motivation, and as seen in the linked scene with Su She, if something isn't working, he won't go down with the ship trying to save someone. Even the motivations of the Golden Core transfer are a lot more than they seem at first glance – firstly, there's the Jiang debt ('He remembered every single thing he promised Jiang FengMian and Madam Yu—to help and take care of Jiang Cheng'), and this exchange with Wen Ning adds useful motivation context as well:

"If his core was ruined, he’d manage to live on, but Sect Leader Jiang was a different case. He was too driven. He laid too much emphasis on such a subject. Cultivation was his life. If Sect Leader Jiang could only be an ordinary person, unable to go anywhere in life, his entire life would be over." - EXR, Chapter 89

(And that's not just a conjecture! We along with WWX, are shown it in JC's reactions throughout Poisons 5 – he's not drinking or eating anything, thinking that dying and living would be the same thing and there's no point in living anymore.)

So from the evidence we’re shown, I’m pretty confident in saying that this is supposed to be taken truthfully.

Original Chinese:

江澄没了金丹, 魏无羡就把金丹剖了送给江澄, 蓝忘机见了, 会不会隐约觉得自己为了感恩什么都肯付出? 魏无羡立即道, 胡袄! 胡袄! 岂有比理! 我可没那么伟大! 跟那完全没关系! - MDZS original version, taken from here – you can find all of it there!

—

*From what I can find, the actual wording here, 伟大, means 'great'/'grand'/'worthy of the greatest admiration' rather than directly 'sacrificial'. However, judging from the context – that this is in retaliation to the view that he'd easily give up and sacrifice anything for some purpose (here, for gratitude) – it's safe to assume this is what it means.

[least-carpet]

Hiiii, if it's not too much, can you describe the biggest differences between the live action characters and the novel characters in MDZS? They are a lot, so I will love even the difference between few of them! I haven't seen the live action and I don't know if I will ever, but I am curious, considering all the meta. Anyway, thank you in general, even if you don't answer!

Hello anon! This has been in the inbox forever because there are soooo many ways to answer this! However, let me be transparent that I've watched maybe like 1/10 of CQL. Among other obstacles, I simply do not care that much about Lan Wangji and he's always there (even though Wang Yibo is giving it his all... it's not his fault I'm a hater...). Chewing through a book with Ms. Mxtx's commentary was just more enjoyable to me, and even then, to be honest, I still liked SVSSS better. (I just love Shen Yuan/Shen Qingqiu so much. That dude is wild.)

Still, the live action definitely affected how I understood certain characters (...primarily Nie Huaisang) and made me interested in relationships that I didn't pay any attention to in the novel. (I freely admit that the nieyao brainrot is 100% CQL's fault.) Also I found Wang Zhuocheng's Jiang Cheng very cute and loveable. It definitely contributed to my Jiang Cheng Brain Disease.

LISTEN. HE HAS BIG SAD EYES AND THE MEANEST SNEER AND HE MIGHT BURST INTO TEARS AT ANY TIME. HE IS A BABY. A baby who could kill you with his terrifying lightning whip! But a baby nonetheless, to me.

So if you want someone with a real and knowledgeable opinion on the live action, I'm probably not the right person for that! However, here's one difference that changed a bunch of stuff about the characters that I found compelling in the novel: the second flautist.

CQL adds Su She as a second flautist doing unorthodox cultivation in a couple of different places, including at Qiongqi Path, where he seizes control of Wen Ning and is therefore responsible for Jin Zixuan's death. Removing the responsibility for Jin Zixuan's death from Wei Wuxian creates a bunch of cascading character and relationship implications that I don't love.

Firstly, all of the people who cautioned Wei Wuxian against his unorthodox cultivation are now... wrong. If he never lost control, then actually his assessment that he could maintain control wasn't overconfidence, it was just true, and he was persecuted because the Jin needed a scapegoat and wanted the Yin Tiger Tally, not because his cultivation path actually involved significant risks and drawbacks. (To be fair, the Jins actively exploited those drawbacks, the public perception of his cultivation, and Wei Wuxian's failure to manage his reputation. But it matters whether the risks exist or are just made up.)

Secondly, removing his responsibility for Jin Zixuan's death transforms both Wei Wuxian's character and how we understand his relationships with Jiang Yanli, Jiang Cheng, and Jin Ling. Because, in the novel, he kills Jin Zixuan under duress but also after a lifetime of conflict with him. Like, he hates the dude, he doesn't think he's worthy of Jiang Yanli, and he's not willing to examine his hatred and resentment even though Jiang Yanli loves Jin Zixuan and wants to marry him, even after she marries him and has a child with him. (I would argue that a lot of the resentment is because of the eventual marriage; by marrying Jiang Yanli, Jin Zixuan becomes legally recognized family to the Jiang siblings, while Wei Wuxian's relationship with them has no social recognition; I think Wei Wuxian is deeply threatened by that but can't articulate it.) It's a huge failure! Like, dude, you loved someone and you killed that person's beloved spouse. That points to a certain degree of repressed jealousy, possessiveness, longing, arrogance, the list goes on... I am so compelled by that conflict, and the adaptation just erases it.

This also affects how we read Jin Ling's relationship with Wei Wuxian. In one scenario, a teenage Jin Ling is (eventually, minus one little stab) ending the cycle of violence by not seeking vengeance for his father's murder. In the other, it was actually someone associated with Jin Ling's paternal family that killed his father, and he's maybe just... coming to terms with that? One of these scenarios is so much richer and more interesting.

How it affects the relationship between Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian is a little more subtle. It locates the responsibility for a lot of the harm done to the Jiang siblings with the Jin sect, not with Wei Wuxian, removing some of Wei Wuxian's culpability in the devolution of his relationship with Jiang Cheng. If Wei Wuxian isn't guilty of wronging the Jiang family (and instead is also a victim of the Jin sect), then all of Jiang Cheng's rage and betrayal was misdirected. They were both tricked. In some ways, maybe that's easier to patch up after canon? (I wonder if this is why many CQL yunmeng shuangjie reconciliation fics have Jiang Cheng apologize to Wei Wuxian, but not the other way around?) But it's so much less interesting to me!

Finally, it removes Wei Wuxian's tragic flaw! Dude is legitimately a genius but he's got hubris coming out of his ears and it fucks him up big time! This is classic stuff. Please stop flattening my boy!!

[wangxianficrecs]

The Misunderstanding by kisahawklin

The Misunderstanding

by kisahawklin

T, 9k, Wangxian

Part of the MXTX Bargain Bin

Summary: Lan Huan sees some unusually pricey things on Lan Zhan's credit card statement. Wen Qing sees Wei Ying coming home from dates with expensive jewelry. They have some concerns. Kay's comments: Ah, meddling brother Lan Xichen and meddling sister Wen Qing doing their best, completely misunderstanding the situation and almost wrecking Lan Zhan and Wei Ying's brand-new relationship - I really liked this one! Never read something like it before and the outsider POV is beautifully done. They really do just misunderstand everything. Excerpt: Lan Huan doesn't think much more about Wei Ying until the next credit card statement shows up with two pricey dinners at high end restaurants, multiple cash withdrawals, and some expensive jewelry. It is possibly Lan Zhan going overboard for someone he likes. Lan Huan thinks he has probably dated a little, here and there, but he's never liked someone enough to mention them to Lan Huan, much less be this extravagant with his money. He tries not to let the nagging feeling that's settling into his stomach turn sour. Maybe it's just Lan Zhan not being sure of himself, wanting to present himself as a worthy partner. He texts Lan Zhan and asks to meet for dinner again. We should do this every month! I miss your cooking and I don't get to see you enough. How's next weekend?

pov outsider, modern setting, modern no powers, protective lan xichen, protective wen qing, wei wuxian & wen ning & wen qing, lan wangji/wei wuxian get a happy ending, humor, misunderstandings, miscommunication, light angst, angst with a happy ending, single parent wei wuxian, getting together, dating, @kisahawklin

~*~

(Please REBLOG as a signal boost for this hard-working author if you like – or think others might like – this story.)

[lryghe]

MXTX thoughts; themes

Okay so this was supposed to be a post about themes AND conventions common throughout MXTX’s writing, but I literally wrote too much for one post so I’ve split it in half. This is the half that addresses two of the most prevalent themes splayed across MXTX’s novels. Yes, this post will contain spoilers for all of MXTX’s works (though probably minor ones in terms of plot points). Expect the second half in the next week as I’m kind of busy over the next couple days!

REDEMPTION

In SVSSS, Shen Qingqiu has this genius moment where he realises that he’s now an active part of ‘PIDW’, that the people around him are actually affected by what he does. This comes in relation to (unsurprisingly) Luo Binghe, and the guilt he feels for having been so caring towards him before hurting him so soundly. And this realisation takes 70 chapters but when he does realise this, he actively starts making himself better, so that he’s ‘worthy’ of staying by Luo Binghe’s side, even after all the anguish he caused him. He’s attempting to redeem himself even from the very beginning though, because when he had transmigrated, his very first thought was to change the hand fate had dealt him, wanting to survive past his probable miserable ending in a pickle pot at the protagonists' hands. This wasn’t driven by guilt but over time the guilt complex gradually appears in the picture. 

MDZS is focused mostly on Wei Wuxian’s guilt complex and him working to forgive himself and move past his time as the Yiling Patriarch. Lan Wangji is a key factor in this, his presence being something that Wei Wuxian clings to when he comes back to life after the burial mounds siege. And it’s something so important to MDZS as a whole because it’s so lovely that although Wei Wuxian himself admits he had done horrible things, Lan Wangji is there to help him through it, and he eventually comes to forgive himself for his actions (even if the rest of the world probably hasn’t). I’ve already talked about this before on 4 separate occasions, so if you want more insight just find a post about MDZS thoughts on my page :) 

And finally, there's TGCF. The key characterisation point that Xie Lian has is the guilt he carries over the situation of Xianle and the death of just about everyone and their mum, but over the course of 800 years he eventually moves past it? He even feels guilt over how Qi Rong turned out, something that’s so stupid in the scheme of things, but he’s such an empathetic and intuitive character that he’ll stew in guilt over it anyway. I don’t think this theme is as important to TGCF because Xie Lian is also very mature (one would hope so after over 800 years of living) character, and he states (in one of my favourite quotes of all time) “rather than remembering how I was butchered and trampled hundreds of years ago, I’d prefer to remember that I ate a delicious meat bun yesterday”. And this gives important insight, because he feels the guilt but he moves past it, and Hua Cheng is central to this, helping Xie Lian realise he’s worthy of love, after 800 years of suffering.

LOYALTY

This is a rather obvious theme and I plan to actually write an analysis about loyalty in MDZS specifically, but I think we can categorise it and explore it in two different categories.

Firstly we have romantic loyalty, something that is prevalent throughout all her works considering that they are all romances. Each love interest remains steadfastly loyal to their main character, even through the rise and fall of dynasties, through death and through years of steadfast mourning. It’s so important that these characters remain loyal, because even though Lan Wangji mourns, and Luo Binghe has every chance to sleep with his future 3000 wives, and Hua Cheng could have destroyed his ashes when he lost track of Xie Lian 800 years previous, none of that occurs. They continue holding on to that loyalty and it fuels many of their motivations. You can also point out the loyalty that the main characters have for their love interests. Shen Yuan sits through 1000+ chapters of some horribly written stallion novel because he has some ridiculous crush on the protagonist of said story. Wei Wuxian has a similar type of obsession with Lan Wangji, every second thought something along the lines of ‘Lan Zhan would love this!’. And Xie Lian waits quietly at Puqi shrine for Hua Cheng, no matter how long it took for Hua Cheng to come back to him… “Last time, they spent eight hundred years running towards each other. This time, it only took an instant to fall into each other's embrace.”

Another type of loyalty that could be explored is familial loyalty. Yi Ziyuan, Jiang Yanli, and Jin Zixuan end up dying to protect their home, dying to save their brother, and dying trying to make their wife (and by extension, son) happy. Wen Qing and Wen Ning die to protect Wei Wuxian. Wei Wuxian sacrifices his core for his brother. Qi Rong spends time hanging out in his aunt and uncle's tomb for some weird reason. The various peak lords of Cang Qiong Mountain Sect spend years fighting for Shen Qingqiu’s body. Xie Lian cooks horrendous food, because his mother cooked the same way and even if its not on purpose, he holds true to her memory. This loyalty is the backbone of character backstories, whereas romantic loyalty is more of a plot device, but both are equally significant. 

There’s another version of loyalty that I want to talk about, but I think I’ll save it for my eventual post on analysing loyalty in MDZS.

I may post the second half of this post in a few days (I haven’t finished writing it (I haven’t started writing it)). Until then, goodbye.

Words: 997

Reading time: 4 mins

[neutronity]

Heaven Official Blessing Thoughts

To avoid shouting into my friends' faces about this series, I'll shout some things here. Be warned, spoilers (sort of).

HuaLian is a god tier ship.

Why? Easy. Because it's another take on the fan ascending trope, which is hard to do well. It's a ship that at first, XL is a literal God who has asked a small hopeless and luckless child to live from him. Talk about an imbalance, right?

Well, sometimes those worshipful and obsessive relationships end in tragedy and darkness. But here, while Hua Cheng's obsessive worship never disappears, it becomes something that is consented to. Xie Lian knows of this, and he leans into it.

Add to that, Hua Cheng spent 800+ years growing himself to become someone worthy of protecting Xie Lian. He became matched in power and cleverness to the one who he devoted himself to.

When they finally reunite, Hua Cheng is Xie Lian's equal. Not just in terms of martial prowess either, but in terms of banter and intelligence and power. Hua Cheng might not have been working so hard to guarantee that he was a worthy partner to Xie Lian, but he sure became one.

Fate ordained that their paths would cross and they would be bound to each other by the red string of fate, but it was ultimately their choice too. Hua Cheng chose Xie Lian when he was still a fledgling god, and his choice never wavered. Xie Lian too chose Hua Cheng, over and over again. There is no doubt that although Hua Cheng would continue to protect Xie Lian, he never would force Xie Lian to be with him.

People say that these two invented love, but I think the thing that made this work so beautifully well is not the destined love, but instead the chosen love.

BeefLeaf is what ships are made of

MXTX does a really good job wading into moral ambiguity. The demon kings are good as much as bad, and the gods are as bad as they are good.

So when Shi Qingxuan finds out that his brother stole someone else's fate to make him a god, and that person lost so much because of it, we're faced with asking what the price of revenge is.

We also find out that Shi Qingxuan does not bear a grudge for what He Xuan does to his brother, and that he does not change who he is when he's stripped of godhood and becomes a beggar. He is still cheerful and gregarious, still makes friends easily.

A ray of sunshine who forgives the vengeance-driven (ghost) king of gloom? And once He Xuan has gotten his revenge, instead of fading away, he's still there fixing the windmaster fan? Delicious. Delectable. Scrumptious.

We also learn that most of the gods had abandoned Shi Qingxuan nearly the moment everything fell apart, even with how generous and gregarious he always was. Xie Lian is one of the only people who remains his friend.

He Xuan, even against his will, also can't help but remain friends with the former Windmaster.

It's not canon at all, but my BeefLeaf loving brain says He Xuan stays and takes care of Shi Qingxuan until Shi Qingxuan ascends again. And even though it's clear that they're married, He Xuan still denies it.

Banyue and Pei Xiu

Ghost/God pairings are just too good. We know what Jun Wu was going for in setting up Xie Lian to take the fall for Pei Xiu's banishment, but it's also clear to me that instead of making an enemy, Xie Lian's defense and protection of Banyue (and likely jogging Pei Xiu's memory of General Hua) earned Xie Lian another dedicated ally.

I don't think Pei Xiu ever told Banyue that he was in love with her. And honestly, a 200 year banishment into the mortal realm meant 200 years away from Heavenly duties so he could be with his beloved ghost girl.

Another not-canon, but I like to imagine Banyue decides to restore her land and the oasis, and goes the route of the kiln to do so, becoming the third kickass supreme in love with a god.

Ling Wen deserves a vacation

Yes yes, the grandmaster scholar bends the way the wind blows, but can we really blame her? Poor woman has not gotten a break in centuries because she is so damn good at her job that people mistake her for a man and Heaven falls to shambles when she's gone for less than a week.

She is a queen amongst gods, and even as she will stab you in the back if she has to choose between you and her survival? Well... maybe if you gave her a vacation and some rest here and there she wouldn't have to plot your demise, okay?

Xie Lian seems to be one of the only people who comments on this and actually insists she take a vacation, and Hua Cheng is basically the worst person in the universe to make an enemy of, so perhaps Ling Wen will determine that loyalty to Xie Lian is the best way to go, and even finds that she doesn't hate that fact.

What can I say, I am a Ling Wen stan.

[fauzhee10069]

My thought after skimming NPAB

“No Paths Are Bounds” by CataclysmicEvent could be the most popular TGCF fanfic right now due it being translated into many language. It basically retelling the story of TGCF with some alteration (most notably is Xie Lian being blinded by curse shackle).

To be honest I'm not really into 'retelling story' because basically we just like re-reading stories that already exist. Total chapters are 152 so the story is quite long and I don't have time to devote my time reading it due to my IRL stuffs (as you can see how rarely I post on tumblr lately, right?).

But I found the author's twitter post about some of the breakdown of the story, summaries that were fully discarded or retained-in-background. Then I was intrigued by the author’s portrayal of Shi Wudu.

I also found that the author's most favorite characters are Shi Wudu and Mu Qing (which turns out that we share the same interest) so yeah...

I ended up skimming their name through those 152 chapters.

And here’s my thought…

First, keep in mind that I didn't read the whole thing and just skimmed it, so my thought will be limited to that. Don’t take my words as reference, it would be better if you judge it by reading it yourself.

Plus, this will be heavily subjective and personal.

At least what I want to say first is that this fanfic is worthy enough of being loved by many.

As for Shi Wudu, there is noncon stuff with Jun Wu.

Yeah, this fic contains #junshui but in unhealthy way.

The premise is interesting because often I also have ideas for angsty #junshui content where Jun Wu blackmailed Shi Wudu for his fate switching deed.

The author further made that it was Jun Wu himself who taught Shi Wudu about switching fate.

Despite #junshui, the actual pairing is obviously #peishui. Yeah, I agree with the author that Shi Wudu deserves a happy ending.

Sometimes later it’s implied via Shi Wudu that Jun Wu is also interested to Mu Qing.

Now, I’ll be honest, I like pairing #junqing more than #junshui because I'm invested in PeacefulDiscord’s fanfic about them (yeah, it’s angsty pairing as well with possibility #fengqing in the end and the fanfic is likely got removed as of now due to the author wants to revise it).

Back to NPAB, i feel this part is a bit nonsensical because Mu Qing is the older god than Shi Wudu, he’s been around in Jun Wu’s court more than Shi Wudu. So why would Jun Wu only interested in Mu Qing now?

Of course there is a term that attraction can come later, but I still find it hard to be logically convinced.

There was a moment when Jun Wu appreciated Mu Qing's beauty, but why wasn't that done a long time ago when the latter first ascended?

I think it would be better that #junqing happened before #junshui, or that it didn't happen at all.

Speaking of Mu Qing, apart from being the martial god of southwest, it is very interesting that NPAB Mu Qing is also the god of medicine (medical master).

Medical masters themselves mentioned a little by MXTX in the novel.

It’s free real estate to me, so I'm often excited to create an OC based on that role.

But in NPAB, that role was taken by Mu Qing.

In canon, Mu Qing is obviously not a medical master, there is absolutely no implication that he is a healer.

But in NPAB, that is his role. To be honest, I'm excited, because Mu Qing’s role becomes even more prominent than his canon counterpart.

I particularly love this part:

NPAB Mu Qing is basically Unohana Retsu Yachiru of TGCF and healer Mu Qing became a quite popular fanon in TGCF fandom.

Back on Shi Wudu, the Black Water arc is more complex in NPAB than in canon. Both Shi Wudu and He Xuan were actually victims of Ju Wu's scheme, with the former even got SA’d by the emperor.

I love the fight between He Xuan and Shi Wudu inside Mount Tonglu, the truth was being revealed there and it eventually ended tragically with Shi Wudu’s death however…

Next chapter feels like a joke, probably a mock up chapter with Shi Wudu being transmigrated to modern world and met Shen Yuan who mistook him for a cosplayer.

This part is so random, after riding the angsty with Shi Wudu, he was suddenly in a supposedly comedic situation, WTF??

I thought that Shi Wudu will be permanently stuck in modern world with Shen Yuan, which will be… cringed imo (his character profile is not suitable for comedic situation atm).

But chapters later, I’m glad that he is back into TGCF world, revived by no other than Mei Nianqing.

Let me just pretend that his moment with Shen Yuan is just a dream… or does not exist.

Then, there is also beefleaf…

Which I think is not great idea to give them a lovechild during the course of NPAB’s TGCF.

I’ll be honest here, I have never been a fan of badass pregnant lady troupe.

I mean, no matter how badass you are, no matter how strong or overpowered, imb4, hax, etc you are... when you’re pregnant, you will be a liability in any dangerous situation! Deal with it!

No matter how capable you are, you and your unborn child will remain a matter of concern for the party.

Which automatically translated “a burden”.

I appreciate pregnant mother more who realize their limitations and choose to support the party in a safe place.

That's why I think that a 9 months pregnant The Boss in the middle of the battlefield is ridiculous (Metal Gear reference).

Reading: <fighting> <badass> <danger> “oh the baby!?”  <fighting> <badass> <danger> “oh the baby!?” are getting on my nerves in all my life in enjoying fictions (JUST STAY INSIDE YOUR GODDAMN HOUSE, BITCH!!)

If you really need a representation of badass woman, or badass mother, do it when she's not pregnant.

In fact, badass mother with a child/children (who was already born of course) is still underrepresented than badass preggers.

I prefer beefleaf to have their kid(s) post canon.

Or (tbh), I prefer fengqing who get the children (Nan Feng-Fu Yao twins AU LOL).

Now talking about the OC, NPAB has quite a lot of OC(s) but right now I want to talk about Zhao Beitong first. Evie created her to serve as a mentor figure for Hua Cheng. Her role as the master of mount Tonglu, mother of ghost kings, the genius blacksmith who forged many celestial powerful weapons, the queen of Wuyong & Jun Wu’s wife AND GUOSHI (Tonglu Hudie).

To be honest, as interesting as she is, I’m not a fan of her character.

I found that her role is quite too much, my personal opinion is that she is a bit Sue-ish, despite the author claimed that the OCs are simply meant to be supporting characters to help the plot progression.

I’d rather have her roles get split into two characters. One as Hua Cheng (and He Xuan) mentor and another as queen of Wuyong/Jun Wu’s wife (via flashback/posthumous character).

The mentor could be from one/two of Jun Wu’s deputies who turn into the mountain (make them powerful enough to be able to project human form) while the queen’s story can be told by Mei Nianqing in addition when he told Xie Lian and Hua Cheng about Jun Wu’s past in canon.

Being Jun Wu’s former Guoshi & Hua Cheng’s mentor already put her fighting prowess alone comparable to them.

Which means the like of Pei Ming, fengqing and other martial gods/combatants are apparently inferior to her.

Then I also don’t like the story of her being the executor of the gods in previous heavenly dynasty while Jun Wu orchestrating from behind (as mastermind).

All for the sake of her grief as losing mother.

That is like the effective way to tell the audience how strong & badass your OC by carrying out the massacre while also place her in innocent light (we don’t blame in her, whilst sparing her from responsibility of her action).

You only feel pity to her, regardless what terrible things she is capable to do.

All because of “I’4m A wRoNg3d m0th3r!!!”

Let’s be honest, Zhao Beitong’s motherhood issue got too repetitive in her story to the point where I got (yawn).

Perhaps that’s the problem of story too much tell, another reason where I can appreciate the element of surprise of MXTX's storytelling.

I’m not defending the previous (gen of) gods, as MXTX herself implied that they were corrupt canonically.

But I prefer the canon version where Jun Wu is more barbaric in slaughtering them by his own hand, Jun Wu's narrative as a strong villain is more accomplished well for it demonstrated his strength as well as his cruelty (regardless how corrupt the victims themselves were).

I think it’s fine if you want to put your OC in some light by having her contributed in forging deadly weapons, but I’d rather have Jun Wu did the execution as you already made your OC prominent enough as a blacksmith.

EDIT (27/12/22): Okay, after re-skimming again, the ones who did the heavenly slaughter were both Zhao Beitong and Jun Wu, but still...

I don't know what criteria the author sees of prominent female character, the author created Zhao Beitong as an icon of such.

But personally, characters like Ling Wen and Yushi Huang have been quite woke for me, because even though they are not physically strong as combatants, they are both very competent. MXTX prefers characters who are competent and irreplaceable than just being everything.

At this point, I’d rather have the author to fully utilize Jun Wu’s three other deputies than making over-fully packed OC.

Guru kebanyakan drama, kalo kayak gini kan mending Hua Cheng dikasih guru macam eyang Sinto Gendheng wae -_-

Though, perhaps most of you already think that Zhao Beitong serves her role well as an OC, because her story is in harmony with the narrative written in the NPAB:

The tragic mentor/fallen goddess who aids the protagonists in defeating the villain while also getting her revenge.

But my personal preference is to prefer a character that aren't too excessively tragic/dramatic.

I’m actually aware that NPAB’s elaborated style of narrative is not limited to Zhao Beitong alone, but also to many canon characters.

However, that’s how despite some existing plot holes, I appreciate MXTX’s subtlety in story telling.

At this point, I’ll be more blatantly honest here, I found Zhao Beitong more annoying than NPAB!Shi Qingxuan.

Let’s go back to the positive one, I love how the fic had addressed this mulian’s issue:

And then in NPAB, we have this:

My favorite chapter that moved me was when Mu Qing became MVP in the battle against Bai Wuxiang. Bai Wuxiang then infected Mu Qing with Death Qi, the protagonists’ party almost lost their most reliable healer because of that and then the lake scene with fengqing & hualian.

NPAB have delves into deep emotions with multiple characters even early on than what MXTX had written (particularly, Hua Cheng’s POV).

I like the NPAB version of the final battle more than the canon because the former involves more characters to contribute in fighting Jun Wu and Bai Wuxiang, instead of relying too much on Hua Cheng and Xie Lian alone.

Then, regarding the epilogue (post Jun Wu’s defeat), although it is great to have multiple parties involved in final battle. In the end we will find a typical ending "happily ever after for everyone" yay.

Which is a bit... childish to my taste (sorry).

Especially in the part when it comes time for Shi Wudu to receive a formal punishment for his crime on He Xuan regarding fate switching.

I don't know why I don't like the way it is handled. Like witnessing the court process in our world, but in written form (narration).  Shi Wudu’s reciting all his sin verbally, can’t we just skip this part? (yawn)

At least yeah, he doesn’t get away with his crimes on He Xuan.

And the ending has Pei Ming as the new heavenly emperor which is neat.

So… yeah, that’s my impression of a fraction of the NPAB, I wished I have my time to read the entire story but yeah…

Anyway, apart from the things that I’m not a fan of, this fanfic can’t be called a mediocre in quality. The author is really devoted in writing this story as a form of love for TGCF written by MXTX herself.

Ciao.

[wutheringskies]

finished volume 1 of tgcf (seven seas) I first watched the donghua, and found the plot to be pretty much the same, so there wasn't much of a surprise factor. my opinions are:

easy to read; I am unsure if it's a chinese thing, or an MXTX thing but I find her books don't have much word vomit? the descriptions are few; there's not much self introspection other than what's necessary, the plot progresses further easily by dialogues and actions; and everything happens one after the other. so it's not like a block of heavy information in your face.

just a little boring: perhaps because I've watched the donghua s1 or because they're 800 years old; it's a little lacking in soul for me; I feel like the utter dilemma that the arcs were trying to present forth just didn't appear; perhaps, it was a little too dialogue-heavy, exposition-reliant, and the stakes were pretty low; we already have two overpowered characters plus two more gods and uhm idk, it felt a bit muddled; the side characters also felt really cheap for me.

sort of comforting: so the reasons why I find it boring is also why I find it comforting; trust-worthy characters in their developed stage; though the other characters feel cheap, it drives the point that these people are 800 years old; and all human-ness comes as childish from the minor characters.

very theme centred: I feel like the author tried just a little too hard to drive all these themes home idk; i guess, it's like similar to the vibe of fable stories? i don't think it's a bad thing. I'll have to finish the entire series to make conclusive points about the themes but I do wish to write my first interpretations so that I can reflect and compare upon them later (I'm not trying to judge the whole series on the basis of the first book.)

Do I want to pick up the second book? Well, not as much as I thought. But at the same time, the first book has one string I'm really invested in - the boy with the face disease.

About characterizations: idk I'm not a massive fan of Xie Lian and Hua Cheng, but however saying I'm NOT a fan will also be incorrect. There were many bits I did enjoy.

But I am unsure why the whole series has this sort of vibe for me where it looks like you're pulling an ox-cart through muddled water; some things feel too well done, and some feel not well done at all.

but what I do like about the characterization of Xie Lian and Hua Cheng is that, personal preference and opinions and tastes all aside, I can firmly believe that yes, this character is 800 years old. So, all the evidence in the story does point towards how they're supposed to be? If that makes sense. Like there's not an issue of suspension of disbelief. There's an issue of interest, which I believe is subjective. So, objectively, I think it's good and i should pick up the next book right now.

[incandescentflower]

9 People You'd Like To Know More

Tagged by @twig-tea ! thanks for the tag in this and the other one. I think this is more the speed my brain can handle. :)

Last song: I'm watching/listening to as much of gawin's music as possible lately and this cover with aye is really fun

Currently watching:

Jun and Jun - I do like choi jun the most of all of the many possible suitors but I don't think I can deal with "everyone loves lee jun" for too long and also, there is very dumb miscommunication happening right now, but I'm still enjoying it

My Personal Weatherman - just picked this up. I find it really interesting. japan going all in as it likes to do sometimes.

Only Friends - what is there to say except I'm buckled in for the madness

Word of Honor (rewatch) - writing some long lost fic and really enjoying another watch. this will always be one of my favorites <3

Pachinko - a watch with a friend that is taking it's time, but it's so interesting to see lee minho playing a complicated, not heroic character. also, the western and korean styles combined is engaging.

Bloodhounds - I've stalled on this one, but not because it wasn't good, but it's heavy about inequality and I needed more brain space. but woo dohwan is so good in it as usual.

What We Do in the Shadows - It's just hilarious and I'm making my way through the newest season

Bad Buddy (rewatch) - will this rewatch ever stop? probably not. I finish it and then jump to a different episode. I keep writing fic so I keep watching so I keep writing so I keep watching and so on and so forth

About to start:

oh who knows. I have an epic to-watch list and pick up whatever strikes my mood or by what I see other people yelling about. I have a mydramalist and my plan to watch list has over 80 things on it. damn.

Just finished:

Sing My Crush - I inhaled this whole thing. I liked everything about baram and hantae's relationship. I think they're fic worthy so that's saying a lot.

Tokyo in April Is ... - I liked it although it kinda lost something for me in the end

Be My Favorite - still in brain takeover mode. I'm probably going to be thinking about this one for a while. I want to write fic for it badly and am hoping I might get to soon.

Good Omens season 2 - So good, gimme the third season now.

Red, White and Royal Blue - I had read the book a while ago. I thought it was a decent adaptation, but I've seen varied feelings.

Currently reading: Scum Villain's Self Saving System by MXTX and you know, various fic as you do. I couldn't possibly read more than one book at once. I do not have the brain capacity.

Current obsession: uh...gawin caskey (look, he liked one of my tweets and I'm still not over it) no but seriously, be my favorite (see above). I am using a rewatch as a reward for getting some other writing projects done and then I'm really hoping I can dig into it again

I am trying to remember who likes to do tag games. I've been bad at keeping up with them lately but how about @galauvant @stickers-on-a-laptop @funyasm @dimplesandfierceeyes @lurkingteapot @dancing-out-in-space @dontbesoevil @yougetsomekisses @mineonmain but obviously only if you want to do it!

[suibianandbichen]

Wei Wuxian was arrogant at times but that doesn't make him an asshole. And I personally wouldn't use this scene you mentioned as an example of when he was arrogant. This scene could not have gone any other way in my opinion but there are definitely other ways of handling situations of a political nature than threats and confrontation.

I read Wei wuxian's arrogance as youthful arrogance more than anything else. Post resurrection wwx would look back at these moments and cringe. Yes he has a right to be arrogant and he is in fact superior than everyone but sometimes its best not to let people know that or they would gang up against you.

And the man standing beside Jiang Cheng was none other than Wei Wuxian himself. He saw himself, dressed all in black, standing with his hands clasped behind his back. A black flute with a bright red tassel hung at his waist. He was not carrying his sword with him. He stood side by side with Jiang Cheng and nodded in greeting. His body language was arrogant, his demeanor so awfully enigmatic and disdainful of everyone present. Seeing this cringe-worthy posturing, Wei Wuxian had the sudden urge to charge up to his younger self and beat the hell out of him.

People are so focused on the mob mentality part and in their love and adoration for this character either ignore or completely miss everything else. Yes many people like the Jins really just wanted power for themselves, some people were just following the crowd (mob mentality) but others were genuinely worried and concerned, others were fearful because they do not understand and are rightfully sceptical of his cultivation method, others had self righteous indignation and thought they were standing on the side of good in the battle against a perceived "evil". Interesting how this is also what a lot of people in fandom seem to do a lot as well. But no everyone did not think exactly the same and follow the crowd it's a disservice to this story to continuously assume this when MXTX took care to write an even more complex and thought provoking story.

After the Sunshot Campaign concluded, the Jin Clan of Lanling organized a days-long flower-viewing banquet and invited countless cultivators and clans to celebrate with them. All this pomp, Wei Wuxian thought. It's like he's ascending to the heavens. These people both fear and respect Nie Mingjue. There were plenty who feared me, but those who respected me were few and far between.

No matter how self assured or powerful you are to think that not one single person would stand with you in the entire cultivation world or that you alone can keep an entire group of people safe is the epitome of arrogance.

But many well intentioned people have been there and life will always show that there are lessons to be learned.

Side note: One thing i've noticed in fandom is people don't want Wei Wuxian critiqued at all and are very quick to rise and defend. I've seen more posts in this defence than i have seen of the actual critiques. And they can sometimes be very scary, i thought we all loved this book that's why we're here. Post resurrection wei wuxian critiques himself very often and to disagree with this because you love him so much is again a disservice to a really beautiful writing and character. This bothers me so i will often respond but i'll tag them as good vs evil so people can block if they want.

people throw around the word arrogant a lot when talking about wei wuxian post war which i think is funny because it implies that wwx had an exaggerated sense of self, like he thought himself better than his peers and the rest of the cultivation world. similar to how su she thinks lan wangji is arrogant. but like… most of wwxs arrogance from that time was a performance so no one could question why couldn’t do anything a typical spiritual cultivator could do, which was be even more noticeable for someone who had been as powerful as wwx. ALSO wwx really was that powerful, he wasn’t exaggerating his own talents or abilities, he could back them up (ie phoenix mountain and the blindfolded archery) wwx is incredibly confident in himself and knows exactly what he’s capable of.

i see people using the scene where wwx interrupts othe jin sect banquet while looking for the wen remnants as an example of his “arrogance” a lot when… that’s a poor way of reading this scene.

wwx first asks jin zixun to talk alone and when he makes it very clear he’s not even gonna humour wwx, wwx starts to get angry. jin guangshan adds fuel to the fire when he realised that jzx is making a fool out of himself and wwx is perfectly respectable when talking to him, even letting him know that he owes those wens a life debt, hence why he wants to help them. jgs continues to insist that wwx join the banquet and put aside the matter. when wwx declines and once again asks for him to resolve the issue jgs instead tries to blackmail wwx into giving up by mentioning the yin tiger tally and wwx finally runs out of patience.

and even after All of that wwx doesn’t truly snap until he points out the hypocrisy of the cultivation sects because they have allowed renegade clans from qishan who surrendered during the war to attend the banquet they’re all at while also preaching that anyone with the surname wen is guilty. it’s only then that he begins to threaten them and it’s clear he only does it bc he realises that debating will get him no where, that they’re shameless in their preconceived ideas of righteousness and wwx can’t afford to waste time fighting with them on logistics.

i just think labelling this scene as “wwx being an arrogant asshole who thinks he can do whatever he wants” is literally the Opposite of how you’re supposed to read it. like mdzs is a critique on mob mentality and people really think siding with the Mob during scenes like this is the correct interpretation

[tonyglowheart]

The thought of CQL-centric media or spaces gives me hives these days thanks directly to the toxic parts of fandom and also CQL-onlies who ignore the novel for favor of spinning off their own theories based on ?? and how that tended VERY highly to be anti-mxtx and anti-"fujo" crowd, but like... I don't necessarily like NOT wish for that CQL scholarship endeavor to fail? bc I think it could be good for M/M or specifically danmei scholarship, potentially. But also I *highly* hope they pay due acknowledgement to MDZS and MXTX lmao, esp if they're trying to widen their scope to danmei scholarship and not just mainstreamized-adapatations-of-BL-properties-which-large-corps-capitalize-off-of-while-danmei-still-remains-kind-of-a-tightrope-of-acceptibility-by-censors-and-the-govt

[jiangwanyinscatmom]

Hi

What do u think about people saying mdzs is a sexist book and that mxtx is misogynistic cuz she killed of the most important women in the story ?

I think when they say this they don't really see the underlying themes as it is of gender critic and juxtaposition of women in the works themselves.

SVSSS her first work, is a parody of the same shallow tropes that plague a very disgustingly misogynistic genre and it's overwhelming base of men it caters to. Our main character himself is in denial about his own sexuality for years and tells himself he must be straight because he reads YY novels, which is honestly some of the most horrendously bad straight machismo power porn put there for men.

Shen Qingqiu doesn't actually stop thinking of the women within the world of PIDW as just part of Luo Binghe's harem, until he has pushed Luo Binghe into The Abyss which makes everyone else, as much as Luo Binghe, to him real. There is nothing tethering Ning Yingying as "just" Luo Binghe's first wife", he begins to see her as a loyal disciple of the sect, talkative and stubborn and maybe just a little stupidly endearing.

This also extends to Liu Mingyan who was only considered to be "worthy" of Luo Binghe's attention as the main Love Interest to be argued about. But, she also had little to no interaction with Luo Binghe from the first time they meet and becomes independent of the harem wife plot so much, she becomes a inversion of becoming an in world writer to the most infamous trash novel of its stallion counterpart.

The women of the work are the ones who poke fun at the idiocy of the men that actually do inhabit the world, especially with Sha Hualing in actual shock at the ineptitude between the conversation of how to get a man's attention that Shang Qinghua, Mobei-jun and Luo Binghe are having, she is the one shocked and offended about the "act pathetic" conclusion they all come to.

As for MDZS, the world explores just how shit it is to live as a woman in a heavily misogynistic political world. It's not meant to be an idealized society by any means. And that does, shockingly, include women dying and all the ugly status that entails. Compared to SVSSS which had highly powerful women, The Jianghu of MDZS explores the opposite. This world shows men have more rights and leniency as a class, and given status, than it's women counterparts. Women are expected to act ideally as it's Confucian basis has set. Confucian practices, in short, are terrible to women. Of course that would reflect on a story that uses it at its basis for storytelling. We see this with Yu Ziyuan, who manipulated those practices, only to find herself in an unhappy marriage and family. Jiang Yanli, with traditional values, tries as well to make the best of an arranged betrothal that she had no say in, broken or not eventually. But she was able to eventually choose to marry and know Jin Zixuan, on her terms, after that as he had to be the one to reach out to her.

Wen Qing, is also more than just her role of men, as she decided the fates of Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng by being the one to decide ultimately to perform the core transfer. It is her mark, not Wei Wuxian's plan, that changes their relationship for life.

A-Qing herself, is the lead of the entire Yi City arc, and is the one to finally lead to Xue Yang's fall even after her death. This also includes the minor women in story we hear of only in hearsay, Baoshan Sanren, Cangse Sanren, Meng Shi, Lan-furen, their actions and lives are the ones that change the course of the domino effects of the story points and consequences. To read it as something as shallow as only being misogynistic or killing women maliciously, stupidly, and in bad faith, misses the themes of the plot.

There is a difference between the sociological aspect of what it means that media still has to make an emphasis on the issues women face, that are ugly and cruel, next to a power fantasy that women desperately crave, and true honest and hateful misogyny.

[cherryhua]

First of all, thank you for accepting me in the fandom, and the platform in general. I am in no way shape or form, a professional review\analysis character but only a huge fan of TGCF , and I love to scratch the plot as a fan as well as a long time Danmei reader and share my little thoughts with the fandom. please feel free to call me out on my bs,i love discussions and food for thoughts.

The reason behind this post is to add my little two cents regarding something that, I believe in my humble opinion, is a little something about HuaLian that doesn't get enough attention. Hua cheng is portrayed as this romantic,obsessed bad boy, who has no interest or compassion towards others ( which to an extent is true, but i'll get into that in a bit), and Xie Lian being this good, oblivious meatbun, who made some mistakes and now just roams aimlessly in peace.

putting Hua Cheng in front of Xie Lian is literally like one of them looking into a mirror ( just with a different set of clothes hehe ) , and in order to explain my point I'll divide it into little parts,so this might be long but please bear with me.

- Arc and character development :

when we Meet Xie Lian at the beginning of the novel, we meet him at the end of his arc ( or close to it ), his rise and fall, taking responsibility and humbling himself, and realising his limits and make peace with it was already done in the past ( Book 2 and 4).What remains to complete his arc is him finding his happy ending, which is mainly: learn to love himself again ( and of course being with Hua Hua). loving oneself, is not limited to gaining confidence, or self worth, but it's also the gain of freedom to be oneself without any fear of judgement, including to love for one's selfish reasons : in the past, Xie Lian, loved his country, his people, his friends and his parents either because that's the natural thing to do or out of responsibility and commitment. However, his love for Hua Cheng is different: he fell in love, deeply to almost a damaging degree because he found THAT missing piece that will finally complete him, but as someone who always puts others first, this realisation was something new, extremely scary, but freeing . ( ''only after meeting you, did i realise is such simple thing to be happy").The same thing is applied to Hua cheng, we meet him at the beginning of the book, but at the end of his arc, he has matured, took control over his fate and changed it, avenged his God, and made himself the strongest to protect him, however his arc needed his happy ending to finally be completed : knowing he is worthy of love too ( and of course being with his Taizi Dianxia ).

Their arc, and character development is always mirrored through book 2 and 4, only it's backwards: they always meet at crucial points of their lives, when one is rising and the other is falling, yet at the same time being each other's light at the end of the tunnel,And I think that's MXTX's way of telling us that these two are destined soulmates despite the impossible circumstances surrounding them them . at the beginning of book 2 ( which is the start of their arcs) : in their first meeting, Xie Lian was this magnificent, privileged, powerful Crown prince destined to only greatness, who's confident, low-key arrogant ( and little sassy hehe ), loved by his parents, friends and people and overall at the highest points of his life,. While Hua Cheng, was this impoverished, bullied self hating child. who's abused by his family ( and it's heavily implied that his mother died out of illness), beaten by strangers, and is in so much pain and agony that he wishes to put an end to everything, himself included. This encounter resulted in Xie Lian ( being in the highest point ), saving Hua Cheng from falling to his death ( who was at his lowest point), but this encounter was the start of the change in both of their lives.

The second time they met, was in the Xie Lian small temple, at that time Xie Lian had ascended to godhood ( the highest level a human can reach ), and was dealing with the whole Yong'an fiasco, which would eventually be his downfall. At that moment, Hua Cheng was dealing with su*cidal thoughts, poverty, being homeless, hunger, bullying.. ( the lowest state a human can reach), in a moment of despair, He asked Xie Lian what is the meaning of life, since he is in such pain he doesn't want to live anymore, ' tell me God, what should i do?', to which Xie Lian asks to make him his reason to live, and if he doesn't have a reason, then he should live for him, making him that reason. This moment of guidance is also mirrored again in the present at the end of the novel, when hua Cheng was at the edge of dying. in a moment of despair Xie Lian broke down " no one listened to me talk for years, just tell me what should i do ?", to which Hua Cheng replied that he is Xie Lian's most devoted believer, and as long as Xie Lian is in this earth, he will refuse to die. Of course, we need to read a little between the lines here, there was no doubt that if a God has no believers, or statues he will vanish from existence, but what kept Xie Lian alive up until this point, was his one true believer's existence : Hua cheng, and because of his Love and devotion he will defy death itself to come back and live, and continue on living for Xie Lian, the ame way Xie Lian is the reason that kept ( and still keeping ) Hua Cheng alive.

A third, and important instance and the real changing point in both of their arcs is in book 4 : When Xie Lian met Wuming ( Hua Cheng ) as Bai wuxian. The outcome of this interaction was : Hua cheng dying a second time, sacrificing himself to save Xie Lian's humanity, while Xie Lian deciding to take responsibility for his deeds, Resulting in Xie Lian's second banishment, getting his powers sealed, his Luck sucked dry, and becoming a magnet to evil fortune, and finally he become this nobody, impoverished scrap collecting guy, living for the sake of living. While Hua Cheng's fate changed, raised as a ghost king, his luck turned from bringing disasters to bringing only good fortune, and the rest is history.

After this, the two never met again. Part of it is due to Xie Lian's bad luck, but another part is that their character development is almost completed, and what remains to finally give it closure is their final meeting.

There are many other instances like this throughout the story which i won't go into all of them all otherwise i would be writing for days hehe.

- character treats :

Hua Cheng is described as this nonchalant, non caring ,cold, sassy, strong, know-it-all guy, which are all true characteristics of his. He's also known for not caring about anyone who isn't Xie Lian, not even himself. Xie Lian is no different either, but a lot of those character threats are not as obvious as Hua Cheng's for the simple reason that Xie Lian is polite, and keeps most of his thoughts to himself. Xie Lian is very snarky, and thankfully because we are reading the novel from his point of view, we get to know when he is mentally rolling his eyes, or being genuinely annoyed with something. Xie Lian also forgets everyone's existence when Hua Cheng is present, he's just a little low key about it. I think the reason why one is outspoken about how he feels while the other keeps it to himself, is how the two were raised and brought up : Xie Lian after all was a royalty, a crown prince who was properly educated, although we know there were times where that education was blown away by the wind ( ehm book 4 ehm ), reason why he isn't lacking any manners ( and it will be unfair to say Hua cheng does, only he feels that his good manners are only for his Dianxia, he doesn't care too much if the rest of the world found him rude), but also, because Xie Lian was born, and raised in privileged environement , he was always surrounded by good, and hope since he was little, everyone was nice to him, respected him and loved him, or at least pretended to be, after all he was the king and queen's only child.Unlike Hua Cheng who was born into poverty in an abusive environment, he only saw the evil side of humanity since he was a child, making it very hard for him to have the slightest consideration to anyone's feelings, or at least feel obliged to be nice to anyone. After all, no one was ever nice to him, so why should he burden himself with casual formalities ? Of course, other than being sassy queens, the two of them also share the same insecurities : Both Xie Lian and Hua Cheng thought they were unworthy of love. Both of them were petrified by their past selves, and both of them made peace with the idea that they're destined to be alone.

- Morals :

Both Hua Cheng and Xie Lian shared the same views, that in my humble opinion summed up the message behind TGCF : first, Fate is something that can be changed and controlled, thus you get to decide which path you walk in, and when you do, you should accept the consequences of it. Second, when you love someone, you love them for who they are, in their glorious and lowest moments, and not for what they are.

The two expressed these ideologies throughout the book simultaneously, but I think Hua Cheng takes the credit for this more than Xie Lian in the fandom : Hua cheng told Xie Lian in HX arc : "the one standing in infinite glory is you; the one fallen from grace is also you. What matters is 'you' and not the state of you", but Xie Lian also told Hua Cheng in the Banyue arc : "If I like you, you can be a beggar and I will still like you. If I dislike you, you can be an emperor and I will still dislike you". and this is one of the reasons why the two support each other's decisions despite sometimes not agreeing ( like the Gambles den for example) .

Hua Cheng Also made it clear, that people have the freedom to choose which paths they walk on, himself included.it doesn't matter if you would succeed or fail, what matters is are you brave enough to take that step, and stand up for what you believe in. This way of thinking is expressed by Xie Lian over and over again as well, especially through the first book, when he openly defies the heavens or when he chooses to create a third path, one that aligns with his own beliefs .

- Love for each other :

Hua Cheng's Love started in the past, while Xie Lian's in the present. I see a lot of comments saying that Hua Cheng falling in love was too easy and didn't make sense. isn't that what love is ? emotions are never meant to make sense. With that said, Hua Cheng feelings started as a child's admiration, and slowly turned to love and a deadly obsession ( deadly to himself since he died for his love three times ) and it only kept on growing every time he met Xie Lian and got to get a little glimpse on who he TRULY is ( keep in mind that of all people, Hua cheng was the only one who saw Xie Lian at his best, and at his worst). The same also happened with Xie Lian, he met Hua cheng for the "first" time on the ox Cart, and instantly thought "damn bruh ,you fine AF!", to the point he couldn't look at him directly into his eyes without feeling uncomfortable ( which reminds me of a similar incident in book 1 :  when Xi Lian was with Hong Hong Er in the cart, having the same conversation they are having on the current Ox Cart, which is Hua Cheng introducing himself and telling Xie Lian that he has nowhere to go.Hua hua was also so shy he couldn't look at Xie Lian straight in the eyes without blushing --> remember what i said about mirroring their experiences ? *wink**wink ) , but this admiration only kept on growing until it reached an explosive, destructive level, especially after finding out who Hua Cheng is to him. Hua cheng might have died for Xie Lian before, but i have no doubt in my mind that Xie Lian would do the same for Hua cheng in an instant : remember in the last extra ( the birthday gift one ), Xie Lian, while dealing with the most agonizing pain, he ran away looking for Hua cheng; and held into him with a deadly grip more than he would held into his own life, asking him to stay by his side and never to leave him again : he can take the pain, he can take thousands of swords piercing his heart, but he can't take Hua cheng being away from him.

Overall, in my humble opinion, although Hua Cheng and Xie Lian are present as different individuals ( which they are in some aspects), they also have so much in common that I feel it's a crime not to point it out.