#lucamore strong

[allyriadayne]

just so interesting how the strongs are linked to unorthodox sexual/marital practices. lucamore had three wives and a lot of bastards, lyonel also had at least three wives and a bastard, harwin had three bastards, larys torments alicent sexually, alys had a bastard too.

lyonel is the only one who is doing it privately by marrying and so is larys in a way. he's not being thought of as a man something something alicent doesn't fear he will rape her as a real man would something something his "twisted nature" matching his punishment.

harwin and lucamore are even more alike for how public and transgressive their "crimes" are. both having bastard and being separated from them indirectly because of a brother: gyles morrigen and larys! I tend to think lucamore's faith might've been harwin's in another life too and it's sort of funny that one family was taken to storm's end where Luke died and another to driftmark, to sea, where Jace died. now what's the joffrey connection.....

and alys, well, she's got the better end. sort of. only by giving up and not resisting in a way to propriety nor to "hide" or make proper her practices, to give it a name. she's got the bastard, she's got the castle, and yet she was a captive and a sexual prisoner to a man she ultimately supported and led to his death.

[horizon-verizon]

Near year’s end, a shameful revelation came to light that shocked both court and city. The amiable and well-loved Ser Lucamore Strong of the Kingsguard, a favorite of the smallfolk, was found to have been secretly wed, despite the vows that he had sworn as a White Sword. Worse, he had taken not one but three wives, keeping each woman ignorant of the other two and fathering no fewer than sixteen children on the three of them. In Flea Bottom and along the Street of Silk where whores and panders plied their trade, men and women of low birth and lower morals took a wicked pleasure in the fall of an anointed knight, and made bawdy japes about “Ser Lucamore the Lusty,” but no laughter was heard in the Red Keep. Jaehaerys and Alysanne had been especially fond of Lucamore Strong and were mortified to learn that he had played them both for fools. His brothers of the Kingsguard were even angrier. It was Ser Ryam Redwyne who discovered Ser Lucamore’s transgressions and brought them to the attention of the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, who in turn brought them to the king. Speaking for his Sworn Brothers, Ser Gyles Morrigen declared that Strong had dishonored all they stood for, and requested that he be put to death. When dragged before the Iron Throne, Ser Lucamore fell to his knees, confessed his guilt, and begged the king for mercy. Jaehaerys might well have granted him same, but the errant knight made the fatal error of appending “for the sake of my wives and children” to his plea. As Septon Barth observed, this was tantamount to throwing his crimes in the king’s face. “When I rose against my uncle Maegor, two of his Kingsguard abandoned him to fight for me,” Jaehaerys responded. “They might well have believed they would be allowed to keep their white cloaks once I’d won, perhaps even be honored with lordships and a higher place at court. I sent them to the Wall instead. I wanted no oathbreakers around me, then or now. Ser Lucamore, you swore a sacred vow before gods and men to defend me and mine with your own life, to obey me, fight for me, die for me if need be. You also swore to take no wife, father no children, and remain chaste. If you could shrug aside the second vow so easily, why should I believe that you would honor the first?” Then Queen Alysanne spoke up, saying, “You made a mockery of your oaths as a knight of the Kingsguard, but those were not the only vows you broke. You dishonored your marriage vows as well, not once but thrice. None of these women are lawfully wed, so these children I see behind you are bastards one and all. They are the true innocents in this, ser. Your wives were ignorant of one another, I am told, but each of them must surely have known that you were a White Sword, a knight of the Kingsguard. To that extent they share your guilt, as does whatever drunken septon you found to marry you. For them some  mercy may be warranted, but for you...I will not have you near my lord, ser.” There was no more to be said. As the false knight’s wives and children wept or cursed or stood in silence, Jaehaerys commanded that Ser Lucamore be gelded forthwith, then clapped in irons and sent off to the Wall. “The Night’s Watch will require vows from you as well,” His Grace warned. “See that you keep them, or the next thing you lose shall be your head. Jaehaerys left it to his queen to deal with the three families. Alysanne decreed that Ser Lucamore’s sons might join their father on the Wall, if they wished. The two oldest boys chose to do so. The girls would be accepted as novices by the Faith, if that was their desire. Only one elected that path. The other children were to remain with their mothers. The first of the wives, with her children, was given over to the charge of Lucamore’s brother Bywin, who had been raised to be the Lord of Harrenhal not half a year earlier. The second wife and her offspring would go to Driftmark, to be fostered by Daemon Velaryon, Lord of the Tides. The third wife, whose children were the youngest (one still on her breast), would be sent down to Storm’s End, where Garon Baratheon and young Lord Boremund would see to their upbringing. None were ever again to call themselves Strong, the queen decreed; from this day they would bear the bastard names Rivers, Waters, and Storm. “For that gift, you may thank your father, that hollow knight.””

Fire and Blood, by George R.R. Martin, pg 298-300 

[The Lucamore Strong Scandal]

[saltandfire-blog]

I still absolutely adore this theory 😊

Now that I’ve introduced Bertie Waters in S&F, I can finally flex this idea 🩵

Does anyone else love Corlys’ Quartermaster/bff as much as I enjoyed writing him?

Ok so I have a theory! Reading F&B over again, im reminded of Lucamore Strong.

If you remember, when it was found out he had married thrice, every child was named bastards and the marriages illegitimate. Anyone remember where one of the wives were sent to be fostered?

To Driftmark with Daemon Velaryon!

Perhaps at that time, Corlys would have been a small boy and met the poor bastard children sent to Driftmark. When considering why Corlys might have been so forgiving and accepting that Laenor’s children were not his grandchildren by blood but Rhaenyra’s bastards maybe was because he befriended these Strong fosters? Maybe even became seamen and sailed with him on his voyages together? Could the Sea Snake have seen for himself how blameless it is for children unfortunate enough to carry the stigma of bastardary to their name and that’s why he never wavers claiming Lucerys was his heir (besides the political advantages of course, let’s still be realistic)?

Sorry, just thought of this and am deciding to make canon in my own head if anything, lol 😊

[g0lightly]

What was the cost of King Jaehaerys' peace?

I read Jaehaerys as the Frank Underwood of Westeros, if not worse. I have a theory that the true violence of King Jaehaerys' reign took place behind the scenes. Perhaps the cost of his peaceful reign was higher than we would know from a historical record that favors him. I posit that House Strong took Harrenhal because King Jaehaerys, Bywin Strong, and Ryam Redwyne conspired to out Lucamore Strong’s oathbreaking. I believe Jaehaerys and Bywin may have also had a hand in Black Bride Rhaena’s death at only 50 that same year, right in time for House Strong to inherit Harrenhal as a sort of payment for the scandal (and also maybe her death).

But why would Jaehaerys want to bring scandal upon his own Kingsguard, you ask? Lucamore was the one to bring Aerea into the Red Keep the day she showed up nearly dead on Balerion. He reportedly spent the next day talking about what had happened until Jaehaerys warned him that he should put a stop to it. Maybe he did not put a stop to it and Jaehaerys needed to get rid of him; he could have already known about Lucamore’s wives and children but turned a blind eye or Bywin could have sold his brother out to advance his own station. Ryman is really just an accessory here tbh.

And why would Jaehaerys want to kill Rhaena, his sister? For one, she’s still his rival claimant as the oldest child of Aenys - this is why Jaehaerys and Alysanne argue over making Daenerys their heir instead of Aemon. Jaehaerys says Daenerys can be queen when she marries Aemon, which happens to mirror his power dynamic with Alysanne. Then there’s the fact that she is Aerea’s grieving mother who is, according to the smallfolk, getting increasingly witchy. She also happens to ride Dreamfyre - if there was any dragon that had an affinity for dreamers, I think it was her. Rhaena was the one who suggested putting dragon eggs in cribs, maybe that came to her in a dragon dream. That’s all to say, what if Rhaena was experimenting with magic to try to figure out what really happened to Aerea? What did Jaehaerys not want getting out?

[nogreatideaunpunished]

So given Rhaenys and Corlys's ages, most likely the first thing that comes to mind when they hear "Strong bastards" is Ser Lucamore Strong of the Kings Guard and three wives and his sixteen bastard children.

Especially given that one wife was sent with her children to be kept at Driftmark with Lord Daemon Velaryon. Given they fostered with Daemon Velaryon, Corlys's grandfather, he probably fostered along side them as the heir and future Lord.

Driftmark is full of bastard Strongs, but Laenor's babies are not the first to come to anyone's mind.

[dearlyfetching]

The Curious Case of Criston Cole

Something that's missing from these discussions about the perception and reaction of Criston Cole as he is characterized in House of the Dragon, is how there's evidence within the source material of Fire & Blood that could've offered a better perspective for why Criston reacted as negatively as he did regarding his involvement with Rhaenyra.

There is an in-universe incident which saw both Jaehaerys and Alysanne discharge one of their kingsguard for not only having sex, but wedding and siring children from 3 different wives! Once the secret was revealed to everyone including the wives and children who weren't made aware of this until it was too late, this man was not only fired and stripped of any prestige he had, but castrated by his former kingsguard members and sent to the Wall. He may not have been executed, but violating his oath had severe repercussions not only for himself but for the women who were involved with him and even their children.

Fire & Blood, pg. 300

Jaehaerys left it to his queen to deal with the three families. Alysanne decreed that Lucamore's sons might join their father on the Wall, if they wished. The two oldest boys chose to do so. The girls would be accepted as novices by the Faith, if that was their desire. Only one elected that path. The other children were to remain with their mothers. The first of the wives, with her children, was given over to the charge of Lucamore's brother, Bywin, who had been raised to be the Lord of Harrenhal not half a year earlier. The second wife and her offspring would go to Driftmark, to be fostered by Daemon Velaryon, Lord of the Tides. The third wife, whose children were the youngest (one still on her breast), would be sent down to Storm's End, where Garon Baratheon and young Lord Boremund would see to their upbringing. None were ever again to call themselves Strong, the queen decreed; from this day they would bear the bastard names Rivers, Waters, and Storm. "For that gift, you may thank your father, that hollow knight."

Oaths aren't just meaningless in Westeros. Look at how often Jaime Lannister is scorned for being a kingslayer, despite the dramatic irony of readers knowing why he broke his oaths in the first place. Jaehaerys had already denied the service of kingsguard who broke theirs to turn against Maegor, stating that he didn't want men who couldn't keep their oaths because he felt they were untrustworthy. So, who was this infamous kingsguard anyway? Lucamore Strong.

Yes, Strong.

A member of the kingsguard from House Strong broke his oaths and secretly fathered children across 3 wives. The scandal led to him being derided as "Lucamore the Lusty" long after he was dead. His descendant, Harwin, would also go on to secretly father bastards on the crown princess of the realm and heir presumptive decades later.

As it stands, Criston has justifiable reasons to feel disgusted and embittered at his situation. He is a lowborn (son of a steward) dornishman who obtained knighthood and was then elected as a member of one of the most prestigious positions outside of a lordship. Breaking his kingsguard oath would've resulted in castration and disgrace at best or execution at worst. Criston knows that if the truth were ever to be reported to the king (who would attack his own brother scenes later for allegedly deflowering Rhaenyra), he would be summarily punished. As Lyonel Strong himself said:

"Your intimacy with the Princess Rhaenyra is an offence that would mean exile and death. For you, for her, for the children!" -Ser Lyonel Strong, House of the Dragon S1E06

Not only this, but Criston is stuck serving a lifelong occupation wherein he must exist in the same proximity as the employer who propositioned and coerced him, and for years witness her committing what is tantamount to treason (if not scandal at the very least) with another man by violating her own marriage vows as opposed to getting them legally dissolved in the absence of a trueborn heir. This isn't even taking into account what might happen to him once Rhaenyra ascends the iron throne. He was forced to confront the horrific realization of being subjected to the whim of a Targaryen and see that all his efforts of adhering to rules and societal standards meant nothing to the people with authority greater than himself. To boil his character down to a "thug" or an "incel" without attempting to understand his motivations or the broader context surrounding them is utterly reductive.

[horizon-verizon]

It’s an interesting theory and it makes me want to go back and see the deal with this Mellos maester. His background and whatnot.

About the parentage of the three Velaryon princes...

Just my rant. If you don’t like it, back out now.

The House of the Dragon producers made the Velaryons black and changed Rhaenys’ hair color to make it obvious that Rhaenyra’s children were bastards.

The Velaryons shares the Valryian look of the Targaryens.

House Velaryon is of Valyrian descent, and its members often have Valyrian features, such as silver-gold or silver hair and purple eyes. Some Velaryons have blue eyes. — Fire & Blood, The Sons of the Dragon

In contrast to the tv show, book!Rhaenys has black hair because she inherited it from her mother, Jocelyn Baratheon.

Rhaenys was a great beauty. She had black hair and lilac eyes. By the time she was fifty-five, she had a lean, lined face and her black hair was streaked with white. — Although The Princess and the Queen, published in 2013, stated that Rhaenys had silver hair, this has been changed for the publication of Fire & Blood, where she is described to have had black hair, like other Baratheon descendants.

Jace, Luke, and Joffrey could’ve inherited their dark hair from either or both their parents. Laenor’s maternal grandmother is a Baratheon. However, we have no knowledge about Corlys’ parents. Rhaenyra’s maternal grandfather was an Arryn.

Regarding Harwin Strong, the alleged father of the Velaryon princes, we don’t know the color of his hair or eyes or the shape of his nose, so we can’t actually confirm that he resembled the children. The book asks us to assume they looked like him because the accusations were made in the first place.

Breakbones was said to be the strongest man in the Seven Kingdoms in his day. He was described as being massive and redoubtable. — Fire & Blood, Heirs of the Dragon - A Question of Succession

The only confirmed member of the House Strong whose hair color we know is Lucamore the Lusty, once a member of the Kingsguard.

Lucamore was described as an amiable, strapping, broad-shouldered, young blond bull. He was a great favorite of the smallfolk in tourneys and was well loved at court. — Fire & Blood, The Long Reign - Jaehaerys and Alysanne: Policy, Progency, and Pain

...and he’s blonde.

About the accusations, wasn’t it Vaemond Velaryon and the Greens started those rumors?

With his trueborn children dead, by law his lands and titles should pass to his grandson Jacaerys… but since Jace would presumably ascend the Iron Throne after his mother, Princess Rhaenyra urged her good-father to name instead her second son, Lucerys. Lord Corlys also had half a dozen nephews, however, and the eldest of them, Ser Vaemond Velaryon, protested that the inheritance by rights should pass to him… on the grounds that Rhaenyra’s sons were bastards sired by Harwin Strong. The princess was not slow in answering this charge. She dispatched Prince Daemon to seize Ser Vaemond, had his head removed, and fed his carcass to her dragon. — The Rogue Prince

Yes, what Rhaenyra did to Vaemond was cruel. But she’d been made the subject of these rumors for 6 years by the Greens, and it had gotten to a point where Alicent and her children were taking them as fact and using them as justification to attack her sons.

Imagine that Rhaenyra’s children were legitimate. How should she have responded? Vaemond openly declared that he was going to oppose the legitimacy of both the heir to the throne and his future liege lord for very self-serving reasons.

Perhaps I’m just reaching here, but what if the Velaryon princes indeed had a Valyrian looks but were written down as having brown hair and brown eyes to demonize Rhaenyra? To show that she’s unfit to rule because she birthed three illegitimate children?

After all, Grand Maester Mellos was in charge of writing the court chronicles during King Viserys’ reign before dying and also a Green supporter.

In 120 AC, Mellos in his writings is the one that suggested that the fire at Harrenhal that killed Lord Lyonel Strong and his heir, Ser Harwin Strong, was ordered by Viserys. Mellos implies that the king had come to accept the rumors that his grandchildren by his daughter, Rhaenyra, were really bastards sired by Harwin, thus he desired to keep the truth concealed and kill the man who had dishonored his daughter. — Fire & Blood, Heirs of the Dragon - A Question of Succession

I enjoy watching Game of Thrones: Histories and Lore. So when I began to watch the story about the Targaryen civil war, I’m quite interested.

These are the Velaryon princes, Jace, Luke, and Joffrey plus Aegon the Younger and Viserys.

This is Prince Lucerys Velaryon.

I’m quite interested that they all have silver-blonde hair instead of brown hair. Or perhaps it’s just an error on the colorist’s part.

[crimsonbastard]

Lucamore Strong of the Kingsguard got gelded and exiled by King Jahaereys for breaking his vows by having three secret wives and siring illegitimate children with them.

His indirect decendant, Harwin Strong who was the Commander of the City Watch followed suite for committing high treason with Princess Rhaenyra by siring bastards with her, getting exiled for it by his own father and inadvertently getting immolated in the process in Harrenhal.

Good thing Criston noped the fuck out when Rhaenyra asked him to be her side piece.

[alishaaxo]

im gonna say smth controversial…..

i do NOT like harwin strong

the vibes r off okay 😭

like i get he smirked at rhaenyra at aegon’s nameday, but like he shouldn’t have been such a dumbass relying on the goodwill of his father as hand and rhaenyra’s dad being the king

otherwise him AND the kids wouldve been reprimanded like crazy and to live harsh lives!!

rhaenyra was 18 while the traumatised husband she had planned to do her duty with was too grief stricken with the murder of his lover, and somehow during that time she bonded with harwin as her saviour at the wedding which leads to them rapidly becoming romantic partners and having jace

harwin should’ve known better to even entertain the notion that he could have a romantic relationship with rhaenyra!

and instead he allowed it…. and jace was born

and for that i can be partly okay with it since maybe they did somehow quickly fall into genuine love and want a kid, hoping it would have valyrian features…..

but risking it up all the way to THREE times is acc diabolical

and like when it comes to daemyra stans just shifting harwin onto laena….

it does kinda seem like a sweet ship but also a way to just sidestep laena out of the way when she, especially book-wise, is SO intergral to daemyra and is so viscerally ignored by both the show and fandom!!

laena deserves better than this! id take daemyra/laena anyday over laewin and im saying this as somebody who isnt a daemyra shipper 😭😭

also like harwin contributed like 10 bajillion grey hairs to poor lyonel with all this so i dont feel sympathy for him 💀

imagine being lyonel! like ur family is a fairly new house with a haunted castle and a recent stain on your name regarding bastardry…. and your son decides to go even one step further than lucamore strong ever did by getting with not a bunch of peasants but the mf HEIRESS to the throne!!

[jaehaeryshater]

my commission from the ASOIAF for Palestine campaign. It’s of Princess Daella daughter of Maekar and Duncan the Tall. The artist working on this is @ainzee_the_real on yet, although the amazing fundraising project was worked on by around 25 artists and thought up by (as far i know) @wodania

Despite the relationship not even being confirmed (seems the likeliest explanation for Brienne being descended from both a Targaryen and Duncan the Tall is that Duncan had a child by either Rhae or Daella, but which of the girls it was has not yet been indicated), Duncan and Daella is my one of my favorite relationships in the ASOIAF universe to think of headcanons/possibilities for. What makes the idea so interesting to me is that as opposed to Cersei or Rhaenyra, as far as we know, Daella (or Rhae, but for here on I’ll say Daella as that’s who I headcanon as being the one he had an affair with) was able to conceal that she had a baby a man that wasn’t her husband. Their paternity was never revealed, and the Tarth line at the time of AGOT is no longer Tarth biologically at all, but nobody knows (yes, I’ve considered they still have Tarth blood from Selwyn or Brienne’s mother). This seems like the exact thing that a fan of fairy tales or romances, such as Sansa, would cling to, but the story is absent. ASOIAF and Fire and Blood have a lack of stereotypical Knight and Lady/Princess romances, and that is almost certainly purposeful. Lucamore Strong was a Kingsguard, forbade to marry, and had three families simultaneously who did not know of each other. Jaime rose to the ranks of the Kingsguard as a teenager and was bedding a highborn lady, a Queen in fact, the entire time, but that Queen happened to be his sister. Loras Tyrell is depicted as a steroypical knight on the surface, one that Sansa is quick to swoon over, but it turns out that he is gay and in love with claimant to the Iron Throne Renly Baratheon. Brienne has not formally been named a knight, but her love for Jaime Lannister and overall arc is reminiscent of the knights in the stories, she is kind and honorable, as well as pure of heart. Even the most mentioned romance between a Knight and Princess/Queen, Aemon Targaryen and Naerys Targaryen, is between a brother and sister, in which Naerys possibly does not even return her brother’s feelings and Aemon fails to ever save her from her abusive marriage, but instead stands by and protects her abuser. The most wholesome stories, Bonifer Hasty and Rhaella as well as Garlan and Leonette are either a love never realized for the former, lost in favor of an abusive marriage, or between a knight in name but a Lord in practice and his wife of a similar standing. Duncan the Tall, as far as we’ve been told, does not have the personality flaws of Lucamore, Jaime, or Aemon, is lowborn unlike everyone else on this list, and his relationship with a Princess actually manifested itself in the Tarth line. Despite it not being known to any of the POV characters in the series, this story is one of the most clean cut and potentially wholesome knight-lady love stories in the series. I absolutely cannot wait to hear it, because it seems like it could be a breath of fresh air in any otherwise dark and heavy series.

Forgive me for the tangent, now I’ll get to the depiction. Daella was born in 199 AC, and Duncan in as early as 191 AC. Maekar became King in 221, making Daella 22. Given GRRM’s track record for marrying highborn ladies, particularly Targaryens, off young, my headcanon is that by the time her father became King, she was already married to Lord Tarth. It is unknown when Duncan became a Kingsguard, but we do know that he was in Tarth at some point, as Brienne has seen his shield in her youth, and therefore i hypothesize that he went to Tarth with Daella as either a personal shield hired by Maekar or as a Kingsguard. My personal headcanon is that Daella and Duncan began their relationship before her marriage and she was married to Lord Tarth to conceal this, but that’s pure conjecture. In this depiction, Daella is still at Summerhall and Duncan still a knight without titles or status. I believe his kind and romantic nature is accurately shown in this art, trying to win the favor of a Princess with a mere rose. They know they can never marry, but the courtship continues all the same. I don’t know, i just think it’s sweet ^_^

Anyway, this has been posted before by the campaign, but I thought I’d add my two cents as the person who requested. This group has done an amazing thing, all in the name of a very important cause. The amount of work they’ve put in with no benefit to them is commendable.

[pessimisticpigeonsworld]

Show Criston thinking Rhaenyra would marry him after losing her virginity to him is stupid move, considering Kingsguard in the past having been killed and/or castrated for having sex like Lucamore Strong and Terrence Toyne for example. Also, feels manipulative on Criston's part, and sexist for also not considering that girls can get post-nut clarity too and won't magically bond with a guy just by sleeping with him. (Also, the fandom hate for Rhaenyra over refusing Criston's proposal reminds me of the hate Arya got for rejecting Gendry's proposal in Game of Thrones.)

Criston is infantilized just as much as the rest of TG by the fandom. He's not expected to take responsibility for his own actions and the fact that he chose to sleep with a teenager. Somehow, the fandom has decided that a teenage Rhaenyra seduced a man who is her father's age, even though only one source, who was discredited, told that story.

The show decided to go with Mushroom's telling for some reason, but even then, Criston is just as culpable. Rhaenyra was a drunk teenager who Criston had known since she was fourteen. How exactly is Rhaenyra the guilty or even morally questionable party in this scenario? He was more than capable of telling her no, he could have turned around and walked back out her door, but he didn't.

Criston wanted to be a member of the Kingsguard, he knew what the requirements and oaths entailed. He made a choice and it didn't end how he wanted. Boo fucking hoo.

People defending Criston's incel behavior is so ridiculous; reading those metas is like watching an alpha-bro podcast. He literally took Rhaenyra's rejection and used it to excuse killing an innocent man at her wedding, abuse her little children, and to try to get Aegon to assassinate her. Criston is a shitty guy in both the show and the book, end of story.

[stromuprisahat]

#you know aerys ii's kingsguard had better things to do than tell on lewyn 😭

the virgin kingsguard of jaehaerys i telling on lucamore and his wives and children vs the chad kingsguard of aerys ii never caring prince lewyn had a paramour

[horizon-verizon]

Near year’s end, a shameful revelation came to light that shocked both court and city. The amiable and well-loved Ser Lucamore Strong of the Kingsguard, a favorite of the smallfolk, was found to have been secretly wed, despite the vows that he had sworn as a White Sword. Worse, he had taken not one but three wives, keeping each woman ignorant of the other two and fathering no fewer than sixteen children on the three of them.

Fire and Blood, by George R.R. Martin, pg 298

[nulnoildrinker]

Sure, some of Old Nan's stories might be kernels of ancient folk wisdom inherited through millennia of oral traditions. But have you concidered how fun it is to lie to children?

She likely did the Lucamore Strong Limbo with Dunk, and we all know that he likes women with that extra little spark in their eyes.

[thesunfyre4446]

I’ve been re-reading through Fire & Blood lately for fic purposes and I just thought of something. With Criston Cole being presented in such an off-kilter manner in the show, why does no one throughout episodes 4 through 6 mention the case of Lucamore Strong? When you consider that Harwin is doing the exact same life-threatening shit that a previous member of House Strong did, it would go a long way to explaining why Criston feels the way that he does around Rhaenyra instead of turning him into a “thug” or an “incel” as most of the fandom sees him. Breaking an oath is a serious offense in Westeros and is not given nearly enough attention to. It would also justify why Lyonel feels so threatened because he knows that his family name has already been tarnished. Hell, maybe even Larys sees what his brother is doing and resents him not only for being the firstborn son, but also able-bodied, and arrogant/careless enough to believe that he can break rules as well as bones. There could’ve been discussions scattered across 3 episodes between Lyonel, Larys, Alicent, and Criston about the impact of oathbreaking and adultery under previous Targaryen rule! Not to mention it sets up the presence of Alys Rivers as a Strong bastard and however she feels about being the result of a highborn man's unlawful indiscretion. We won't know until S2, but it's baffling to me that no one ever spoke of "Lucamore the Lusty" as a cautionary tale that emphasized how truly dangerous and idiotic what Harwin and Rhaenyra were doing.

really really really great take anon! i would've never made that connection but you're right - lucamore strong would make a great cautionary tale for criston and the strongs.

and there are so many great ways to include this detail in the story. they could've shown us the kingsguard \ members of the court making fun of harwin calling him "harwin the lusty" or saying "i guess all strongs are the same". it could've been a really cool and meaningful detail to include and it would've added a lot of depth to the story. (btw i'd love to hear about your fic!)

[wodania]

🐅 + loras and/or the other tyrells!!

I think Loras is mostly sober and looks down on those who drink on the job, considering his attitude when he and Jaime are talking about members of the kingsguard. He only ever drinks a little bit of wine since he can only drink so much before getting drunk. I think he definitely glares at his fellow kingsguard members when they drink more than a glass and mocks them when they aren’t around.

He’s the gossiper of the kingsguard and can be quite lewd about it when he wants to. “They cut [Lucamore Strong’s] cock off. Shall I sing the song for you, my lord?” and “[Terrence Toyne] bedded the king’s mistress and died screaming. The lesson is, men who wear white breeches need to keep them tightly laced.” are the words of a master gossiper. Snarky icon.

I also think he’s a good singer and was trained in it alongside Margaery and his other siblings from a young age. He probably likes collecting songs as well and takes note of them when he hears them (see him knowing a song about Lucamore getting his dick chopped off). He and Renly likely got a lot of enjoyment from fun, bawdy songs.

Basically the conversation Loras and Jaime have about the kingsguard of the past are very revealing to his character I think. He’s one for gossip, enjoys lewd songs and possible artwork (Renly kept a collection of pornographic material) as well, and is extremely judgemental. Loras obviously spent a lot of time around Olenna and I feel like people often forget that he is as much Olenna’s grandson as Margaery is her granddaughter. It’s also the Hightower asshole genes coming out to play methinks.

He genuinely thinks highly of his siblings, in my opinion. Considering Loras is so quick to gossip yet only ever speaks highly of his siblings, even claiming Garlan is a better knight than Loras when according to George, Loras is one of the greatest active knights in Westeros, I think it really shows that he absolutely adores them.

About him being a Hightower, I like to believe he finds Hightower mythology interesting but at the same time I think he’d turn his nose up at it. He likes the concept but he feels like the potential of house Hightower isn’t being reached and it’s just kind of a pathetic display. His grandfather, Lord Hightower, likely tried to indoctrinate Alerie’s kids but it never ended up working out for whatever reason. I do think Loras would’ve been a cool ass battlemage type character if such a thing is possible with whatever secret magic the Hightowers have up their sleeves. He’s a battlemage at heart to me.