#lotus seed pod

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

Wei Wuxian and Narrative Agency – Part Three

For Xiantober Day Five: Past and Present, in which the author gets very unhinged about what parts of the past are shown and how that’s affected by the present!

(Part One | Part Two | Full version on AO3)

The Power of Agency: Shaping the Narrative

When I've discussed Wei Wuxian's agency previously, I’ve talked about how what’s shown and omitted tells us about a character, and we’ve talked about the character himself. Though this is a niche topic, it’s not necessarily something out of the ordinary to analyse, and we can assume everything up to here has been in some way intentional.

This? Linking structure to a character’s in-universe preferences?

This is where we get unhinged.

Before I start, let’s quickly establish something which will be important later: although Wei Wuxian is the central character, MDZS isn’t strictly from his POV. While omitting events a character doesn’t like to dwell on and concealing things the character wishes to hide is common in books with only one narrator, MDZS has multiple narrators which it switches between relatively quickly. This includes Wei Wuxian, but it also includes nearly every major character that appears in the story, and omniscient narrator as well. As a default, this format doesn’t lead to this deliberate shaping and omission because of one character’s preferences, since we have many other sources of information and events – which is what makes Wei Wuxian’s influence over the narrative and structure so interesting. We could have access to a lot more information, and access to it at different times, than we do (and that’s not an insult, quite the opposite!).

To begin: we’ve established that times such as Wei Wuxian’s time on the streets, his three months in the Burial Mounds and his loss in the Siege aren’t shown because Wei Wuxian has little agency there. But that’s not the only special thing about them. They’re also the three most traumatic times in his life, and so moments Wei Wuxian himself either can’t remember, or doesn’t like to dwell on.

This is why discussing Wei Wuxian’s treatment of tragedy in his life was important. Firstly, it shows he doesn’t focus on the tragedy in his life, so the idea that the narrative not focusing on this tragedy relates to his character has merit; secondly, it affirms that this is not a passive trait, but a choice. Therefore, when the narrative omits events due to this aspect of Wei Wuxian, it’s respecting not only a character detail – which would be cool by itself – but also an active decision. One that shapes the story it’s made in.

In other words, its very structure is respecting Wei Wuxian’s agency!

Now, of course there are flashbacks to other moments of his past he probably wouldn’t like to dwell on, too. But within the structure, they’re only shown when Wei Wuxian is thinking about them (or when he has reason to)!

Wei WuXian hadn’t woken up yet. His eyes were still tightly shut, yet his hand didn’t let go either. He seemed to be dreaming, muttering, “… Don’t… Don’t be angry…” Lan WangJi seemed somewhat surprised. His voice was gentle, “I am not angry.” Wei WuXian, “… Oh.” Hearing this, as though he finally felt assured, his fingers loosened. Lan WangJi sat beside Wei WuXian for a while. Seeing that he was motionless again, he was about to stand up when Wei WuXian grabbed him with his other hand, hugging his arm and refusing to let go. He shouted, “I’ll go with you, quick, take me back to your sect!” Chapter 63, EXR translation

Which, of course, is him dwelling on…

Lan WangJi spoke one word at a time, “Go back to Gusu with me.” Hearing this, both Wei WuXian and Jiang Cheng were surprised. Quickly afterward, Wei WuXian laughed, “Go back to Gusu with you? To the Cloud Recesses? Why go there?” He immediately seemed to realize, “Oh. I forgot. Your uncle Lan QiRen hates crooked people like me. You’re his proudest disciple, so of course you’re the same as him, haha. I refuse.” Chapter 62, EXR translation

…the painful flashback immediately preceding this. The third set of flashbacks (which are also painful) are a similar case. Look at the contex:

He lifted the bottom of his robe, revealing a prosthetic leg made of wood, “This leg of mine was destroyed by you, that night in the Nightless City (…)” (…) “Wei WuXian, I won’t ask you if you remember or not. Both of my parents died by your hands. You owe too many people. You definitely won’t remember them either. But, I, Fang MengChen, will never forget! And never forgive you!” (…) “In the fight at Qiongqi Path, my son was strangled to death by your dog Wen Ning!” “My shixiong died by poison, his entire body festering due to your cruel curse!” Chapter 68 (immediately preceding the flashbacks), EXR translation

And Wei Wuxian’s own thoughts and words:

Wei WuXian looked at the cultivators before the Demon-Slaughtering Cave. Their expressions were the absolute same as those of the cultivators from the night of the pledge conference, pouring their wine on the ground as they took the pledge to scatter the ashes of the Wen Sect’s remnants and him.  (…) Wei WuXian, “Now it’s time to ask just whom it is that treasures it so much. It’s like Wen Ning. Back then, some certain sects or so were scared to death of the Ghost General. They said they’d kill him on the surface, but behind their backs they hid him for over ten years. How strange. Who was the one that said his ashes had been scattered back then?” Chapter 79 (immediately succeeding the flashbacks), EXR translation 

Once again, Wei Wuxian’s own thoughts relate to the flashbacks we’ve just been shown. And, as I previously mentioned, though all the events which are shown are tragic, they’re also events which Wei Wuxian’s own choices and actions shaped – which he has this to say about:

“The things I did, not only do you remember them, I remember them too. You won’t forget them, and they’ll stay even longer in my mind!” Chapter 82, EXR

Admittedly, this applies more to the third set of flashbacks than the second (which is still fitting as the third set was the most recent), as in the second, although he still had agency within and influence over his circumstances, the majority of the pain was caused by others’ actions (excluding, of course, the Golden Core transfer… which is something we know stays for a long time in his mind, albeit with a caveat we’ll soon discuss). But it’s still important to note – especially considering that otherwise, focusing on this very painful time in his life wouldn’t seem like something very in-character for Wei Wuxian to do.

Of course, this can all just be explained by good writing. It is best to insert flashbacks when they’re relevant to the characters and events in the present day! But it is interesting to compare these to the start of the (not painful) Gusu flashbacks, which open this way:

At a later time, Wei WuXian pondered upon the reason why his relationship with Lan WangJi wasn’t good. Getting to the root of the matter, everything started when he was fifteen, coming to the GusuLan Sect with Jiang Cheng to study for three months. Chapter 13, EXR

Again, considering the circumstances around which these flashbacks take place – returning to the Cloud Recesses for the first time since the lectures, and meeting Lan Wangji once more – it makes complete sense for Wei Wuxian to be thinking about these events*. So it does fit the pattern of Wei Wuxian dwelling on something, thus leading to the narrative dwelling on it, too (and being shaped by his thoughts)… but there’s another layer to this. Importantly, it is the only flashback where Wei Wuxian’s present thoughts don’t lead to this happening, with his thoughts at an unspecified future time leading to it, instead. I like to interpret this as the text saying that, since these events aren’t something Wei Wuxian wouldn’t focus on in normal circumstances, he can dwell on them at any time. Therefore, they’re free to come up in the narrative at any time as well, even if he’s not dwelling on them in the present moment!

So, to summarise: Wei Wuxian’s decision not to focus on the painful times in his life directly influences the narrative to not focus on these times. When painful times are brought up and shown to us, it’s in the context of him thinking about them in the present day, and even then, his most painful moments still aren’t shown to us. His agency in this regard is still respected by the narrative structure.

This is the main way his agency influences the structure of the narrative, but I’d like to talk about the revealing and concealing of information, too. For example, I said I’d talk about the Golden Core transfer – though Wei Wuxian does think about this many times, as evidenced by his internal narration in Chapter 103. But unlike everything we’re shown through the flashbacks, this is something Wei Wuxian is actively trying to hide from others. And the narrative respects this choice (Wei Wuxian’s agency, again), never reveals it even when it would be relevant in the flashbacks, and we find out not through narration, but through a character’s dialogue!

And to clarify – I know these aspects may not be in the book for this exact reason. Showing flashbacks in relevant moments is good writing, concealing an important plot point you want to do a reveal for is necessary writing, and MXTX has said she didn’t want to write about Wei Wuxian’s time in the Burial Mounds, due to not liking to write transformation sequences (and also because it would not be pleasant at all, which likely also applies to Wei Wuxian’s death). That doesn’t prevent it from also being intentional – MXTX’s intelligence is shown in many aspects of this book, and there’s nothing disproving it – but there’s no proof for either option, so I won’t pretend there is. I bring this up because I know this feels like I’m overanalysing, as I feel that way as well.

But, whether it’s intentional or not, it exists in the text, and I adore it – so, regardless, it’s something I’ll explore. Because taking this into account… We aren't just told about Wei Wuxian having agency, we aren’t just shown it in the text, we aren’t even just shown it through which parts of his past are shown and hidden in the structure of the text (as I talked about in Part One). The parts of the past that are shown and hidden also have an in-universe reason for being shown and hidden, this reason being the choices he makes! Agency is the ability of a character to influence the story they’re in, but Wei Wuxian’s agency, as a property of a character who only exists in-universe, shapes the out-of-universe structure as well! That’s how we’re shown its importance! How cool is that?

At The End Of The Road: Summary and Final Thoughts

In this essay, we’ve covered how important Wei Wuxian’s agency is not only to the events of the plot, but to the structure of the narrative as well. The narrative omits periods in which Wei Wuxian has little or no agency, in favour of showing us periods in which he does, even when important events happened in the former. This indicates that who Wei Wuxian is without agency isn’t important enough to be shown to the audience, and therefore that his agency is an integral aspect of his character in MDZS. We’ve discussed how both in-universe and out-of-universe, tragedy does not define him – out-of-universe, the tragic events in Wei Wuxian’s life are used not to build sympathy but rather to show his strength of character and who he still is despite going through them; and in-universe, he chooses not to focus on the negativity and resentment caused by his circumstances or others’ actions, instead staying true to his moral compass and enjoying his life in the present day. Finally, we’ve also explored how this choice is another reason for the omission of certain events from the narrative, resulting in his agency shaping the story in a very literal way – it affects the out-of-universe structure, as well.

It’s quite fitting, for a story whose essence is about defying a conventional narrative – that of righteous clans rising up and defeating a great evil – and about a character who defies many conventional narratives on his own – that of status defining how skilled you could be, that for a golden core being necessary for cultivation and other paths being unavailable, that of a tragic but complete story of someone killed for staying true to their moral code (instead, that character returns to life and has a happy ending) – to have its own narrative play a role in such an important and interesting way.

(Or, if an image would be preferable:)

Thank you for reading!

(Part One | Part Two | Full version on AO3)

--

*This strong relation to the present day circumstances is another reason I love the flashback placement so much (and why I think it’s such a loss both screen adaptions altered it so strongly)! 

[mysteriouslotuscasebookreference]

[layzeal]

idk how to explain it really well, but what makes me obsessed with teenji and generally what sets apart lan wangji from the usual cold, stoic and inexpressive hot character is the reveal, early on, that he is just a little guy

[fortunaestalta]

[grewlikefancyflowers]

lwj is SO funny

[immortal-gege]

Rereading mdzs gusu era + the extras and lan xichen definitely could tell his brother was down bad for wei wuxian

[spotsdoodles]

Did some birthday winions because today is Jorge’s birthday!!

[thingsic]

lotus seed pods

[fleetinggill]

Congrats OP you baked lotus seed pods

Made the worst brownies ever created just now

[gingerbredman1989]

Lotus seed pods, in the style of John James Audubon.

NightCafe AI

[mysteriouslotuscasebookreference]

[mxtxfanatic]

Wwx’s punishment is absolutely morally wrong and shown as such in the context of the story. That’s why he doesn’t reveal the truth of it to lwj! Because it’s the “bad” he wants to forget from his past! No other child in the story is hit by their guardians except for Jin Ling, who gets slapped around by Jiang Cheng, and Jin Ling is shown to fear and distrust his uncle because of this. He’s definitely not being hit by an electrified whip like wwx was (though jc threatens it). So no, mdzs very intentionally does not take the stance that whipping a child is “acceptable” in its setting. We are meant to see this treatment of wwx as wrong and the effect of a petty, insecure woman. To interpret this particular fact of the novel in the a different way is because you are inserting ideas about “the time period” into the text that the text, itself, doesn’t support. A story being set in a fictionalized past does not mean it has adopted the morality of the time period (that doesn’t even exist because mxtx did not choose a time period for this; it’s all fictionalized).

And the context of him saying that the whipping he got under wang lingjiao’s orders is worse than his “usual” punishments is that he is being whipped for an extended amount of time, not just the 2-3 per punishment he’s used to. He says that.

As for why the story wouldn’t focus on wwx having physical scars and choose to reveal this later: it’s not narratively relevant to him like psychological injury is. Lwj’s scars are important because they reveal how much lwj actually did for wwx and how much he cared. Jc’s scar is mentioned exactly twice: once to say he is vain about his physical appearance and again to show when he got the scar. Su She’s is to reveal who actually cast the hundred holes curse. For wwx, the focus is what scars affect him, so we see he has an unshakable phobia of dogs from being repeatedly attacked by them as a child, but we are never told he has physical scars. We are also told that the disappearance of a scar is from a good golden core or good quality medicine. Wwx had neither while fighting wild dogs on the street as a kid. Should we imagine he has no scars simply because the narrative does not explicitly mention that? Should this apply to his being whipped on his palms (where sword callouses would hide them) and his back (where they would not be seen by anyone he doesn’t strip for)?

I’ll just say that while I understand why you read that specific section as saying that his scars are from that day, I don’t simply because of the context of him saying that he is always the one singled out for physical punishment, which is then followed by these “old and new” injuries. It’s one of the few times we actually see wwx complain about his treatment at lotus pier, and if we are following the pattern of the reveal of scars being narratively significant, then the reveal of his has to say something about why this was chosen to be shown now. (But we also read different translations which choose different words, for which I am geared to distrust the 7seas discrepancies after multiple mistranslations on the part of the team. I more take issue with the idea that the story normalizes wwx’s abuse.)

Absolutely wild to read through mdzs and tally the sheer amount of lies the cultuvation world tell about and around Wei Wuxian that eventually get debunked:

Wwx purposely and maliciously ordered Wen Ning to kill Jiang Yanli and Jin Zixuan. Jin Zixuan died for siding with his cousin in an ambush his cousin created to kill wwx, an invited Jin guest. Jiang Yanli died protecting wwx from a cultivator stabbing him in the back, after Wen Ning was supposedly already destroyed.

Wwx attacked the Nightless City banquet for no reason, killing between 3,000-5,000 cultivators. The major clans and many smaller clans were gathered at Nightless City specifically to go back on their word to the Wen siblings to leave the Burial Mounds settlement, and to pledge to kill wwx. There weren’t even 3,000 present at the whole pledge, and wwx didn’t kill nearly all of them since a good portion of them show up to the second siege 13 years later.

Wwx ordered Wen Ning to attack the cultivators at Koi Tower, and his and Wen Qing’s surrender was a ruse to allow them close access to the clans to do so. Wwx was immobilized for three days, and otherwise does not control Wen Ning like a toy. Edit: the Jin purposely agitated Wen Ning to violence, then ensured that a majority of the cultivators in the room killed were from other clans to secure their support of the pledge conference.

Wwx had a great life at Lotus Pier, treated like he was part of the Jiang main family, only to betray them in the end. Wwx was whipped so gratuitously that he had scars as a child despite having a high-level golden core. Nobody bothered to tell him about his parents, despite Jiang Fengmian supposedly being close to at least his father before Wei Changze left the service of the clan. He was given no tablets to honor them in death, no keepsakes. Still, wwx fulfilled both of the Jiang rulers’ final wish/order to protect their son (above his own life), and wwx’s connections are why either were able to get a proper burial (unlike wwx’s own parents).

Wwx was committing evil acts and took on the Wen remnants as followers/test subjects for his dark arts. All demonic cultivators can be linked to his followers. Wwx rescued the Wen Remnants from labor camps set up, again, against the word of the cultivation world, and lived secluded in the Burial Mounds and Yiling until basically his death. The only “demonic cultivators” we see are Jin disciples who are given wwx’s notes after his death to study in an attempt to recreate his methods and secure the Jin’s power over the other great sects. Nobody cares that the Jin are doing this, even as they use other clans as test subjects.

Wwx created Wen Ning to be a weapon. Wwx resurrected Wen Ning on the request of his sister after the labor camp guards murdered him. The Jin, after lying about his destruction, try to turn him into a weapon and fail.

Wwx was killed by Jiang Cheng in a fitting moment of justice for the crimes committed against the Jiang. While Jiang Cheng’s part in the first siege was integral, he did not kill wwx. The Jiang have committed more crimes against wwx than anyone, and owe their entire continued existence to wwx.

Wwx turned to demonic cultivation because he was greedy for power. Wwx created the ghost path as his only means of surviving the Burial Mounds without a golden core. He sought no power and blatantly called out those who did (the Jin), only to be ignored because of his status. In turn, he defects from his sect and exiles himself to the Burial Mounds (with the Wen remnants), to which the sects continue to pursue him in a bid to kill the “servant” who won’t bow to them and to steal his power for themselves.

Wwx’s cultivation corrupts people, both in mentality and their health, which is why he became evil. Wwx’s cultivation path is shown to do no such thing, and nobody has precedence for saying this, as wwx’s cultivation is entirely new. On the other hand, the Nie saber technique is known to corrupt body and mind of the Nie who practice is, resulting in horrifyingly violent deaths by qi deviation, and yet no one shows care or concern about that being a problem for the whole cultivation world to have to deal with.

Wwx was ugly. Do I need to debunk this? 😭

And some ones tangentially related to him, but having to do more with the cultivation world lying to make themselves seem better than they were:

The first Burial Mounds siege was a deadly undertaking, but ultimately worth it to stop the Yiling Patriarch’s reign of terror. The siege was hundreds of trained cultivators against around 50 sickly people and a child with no tools to fight back. The only person who could fight back did not. It was the very definition of a massacre.

The participants of the first siege burned all the corpses on the Burial Mounds to release their resentment. The participants of the first siege threw the Wen remnants’ corpses into the blood pool to desecrate them, thereby imbibing them with even more resentment.

Disciples (or anyone connected to her) of Baoshan Sanren who leave her mountain are destined to meet bad ends as they are corrupted by the world. The cultivation world allows righteous people to die and their reputations to be tarnished in order to maintain their facade of “righteousness” while leaning into corruption and constant power grabs. It is often directly the fault of the cultivation world that these individuals are killed in the first place.

[layzeal]

UMMMM IM SO CLOSE TO FINISHING MDZS.. IM ON CHAPTER 112/117 AND YOU KNOW WHAT…. I DONT THINK IN READY TO BE DONE 😭😭😭 I do have the extra scenes fo read tho…. 👀

*HOLDS YOUR HANDS* YOU CAN DO IT!!! I BELIEVE IN YOU!!!!

mdzs' ending makes me so emotional fr, it's pretty good on its own, but it IS even more satisfying in the addition to the extras, where you get to see them living their happy life they fought so hard for 🥺💕

also you can always listen to the audio drama after! it adds sooo much emotion to an already emotional story, *chef's kiss*

and once all is read and done..... there's always fanfiction LMAO

[imafraidoftomorrow]

There's so many moments in MDZS that make my heart utterly clench and make me want to just burst into tears, either from deep sadness and despair, or from a profound sense of love...

- Wei Wuxian getting to see his beloved shijie in her wedding dress

- The beautiful gift he made for his sister's baby boy, only for it to then be so tragically destroyed

- How all he wanted was to go meet that little nephew of his; how he never even got to...

- Jiang-shushu's last goodbye to his sons

- Wen Qing's solemn "I'm sorry, and thank you."

- Everything that happened to Wen Ning. Just, everything.

- Lan Xichen's unconditional love and acceptance of every facet of his younger brother; the liquor, the rabbits, the lotus seed pods

- "What do you think about this one?" "Mine."

- Jiang Yanli's sacrifice for her dear A-Xian, loving and protecting him always, even till the end

- The silent desperation behind Lan Wangji's "Come back to Gusu with me" plea

- Xiao Xingchen's, Song Lan, and A-Qing's horrible deaths

- Granny Wen's corpse recognizing and reaching out for her grandson

- Wei Wuxian being demonized and scorned for taking the only cultivation path he could, while never saying a word to exonerate himself

- How he did literally everything in his life for others.

This story is heart-rendingly tragic and beautiful.

[chirpycloudyrobin]

thinking a little too hard about how yzy frequently whipped wwx for even minor infractions 👁️👁️ yzy has been whipping him on his palms and on his back ever since he was little. she just whips him so casually in the lotus seed pods extra and when he was being whipped in ch12 he was like "she never hit me this much in one go, it's usually only two to three lashes" like are you good, my guy ? do we need to sit down and talk about it ?

[pokemonshelterstories]

A group of Lotad and Lombre have taken up residence in a lake near my neighborhood, but no one knows where they came from. While they are native to regions like this, no one has ever seen them here before.

Technically, all the ecological/climate/ecosystem/whatever factors are decent for these pokemon, so they should be fine here, but it's still strange to have them suddenly appear.

Do you happen to have any idea where they may have come from or why they decided to make a home here? Also, is there any reason to be worried about their sudden appearance?

with grass types, sometimes their eggs have really unique methods for dispersal to help prevent them from overcrowding an area! in the case of the lotad line, they lay their eggs on the seed pods of the lotus plants that they live among. as pokemon come in to eat those seed pods, they eat the lotad seeds as well. a protective mucous covering on the eggs prevents them from getting digested, so the eggs that get eaten will get pooped out. if the pokemon that ate them defecates into a body of water, the eggs will eventually hatch!

given that lotad have never been in your region before, i'd bet that they were brought over by a vagrant bird pokemon that accidentally wound up in your region. cramorant, ducklett, pidgey, and starly are all bird pokemon that commonly eat lotad seeds. i'd recommend doing some googling to see if any unusual bird pokemon were reported in your region lately, and especially check to see if any of the ones i listed were seen.

as for whether or not to be worried about them, that's something to ask a local ecologist. rangers are a great resource for getting in touch with someone who can tell you if they need to be removed. lotad can choke out native aquatic plants and make water difficult for pokemon to access, but their impact on your region is going to depend on a lot of factors that i can't take into account just based on your message.